 So, with this excellent keynote just given by Mr. Guy Ryder to set the scene, we will now start our first panel for this conference and the title of the panel is Why Space Sustainability Matters and Its Impact on Our Global Future. For those of you who arrived a little late or have just joined us online, my name is Peter Martinez and I am the Executive Director of Secure World Foundation and I will be the moderator of this panel. There is, as many of you know, a growing focus on the importance of sustainability for resolving global challenges and this has given rise to many different initiatives from governments, the private sector and civil society and space is critical to addressing these challenges. Now to illustrate this, the UN Office for Outer Space Affairs has created a web page with examples of how space can serve each of the sustainable development goals. You can Google it, it's the page, you can find it by Googling space for SDGs. But as we all know, space activities themselves are now increasingly facing sustainability challenges as well. Space is becoming increasingly congested with active satellites, increasingly contaminated with space debris and increasingly contested by state and non-state actors alike. The session will therefore highlight the value of space capabilities for global sustainability and the challenges of space sustainability. The session will also address the space component of the upcoming UN Summit of the future that Mr. Ryder spoke about in his opening keynote and we will do so from a sustainability perspective. So our themes during this session will be the following, firstly why it's important to connect the discussions in the space community to broader issues and challenges outside of the space domain, secondly how space can help to address these major global challenges, thirdly what are the major initiatives underway to address space sustainability challenges and lastly how can industry and governments work together on space sustainability and helping to use space to address these global challenges. To discuss these themes we have an excellent panel of experts with us here this morning starting from my left here. We have Mr. Hugo André Costa who is an executive board member of the Portuguese space agency, welcome André, oh Hugo, sorry. Next we have Mark Dickinson who's the deputy CTO and vice president of the space segment at Viosat, welcome. Then we have Walt Everett, vice president of space and ground services at Iridium, welcome. And then Rebecca Everdon who's the director of space of the recently established department for space, science, innovation and technology, DSIT in the UK. And then finally Valda Vickmanis Keller, director of the office of space affairs at the U.S. department of states, welcome to all of you. Thank you so much for taking the time to participate in our discussion this morning. So with that we will now go right into our panel discussion. This will be a moderated discussion. I will start with an initial round of questions to the panelists. And members of the audience either present in person or online will be able to pose questions as well through the Hoover app. You saw the links posted earlier on at the start of the session. We will try to address as many of the questions as possible during the time available to us. And in the interest of time we may combine related questions. So starting with Rebecca, my first question will be to you. Let's start by digging into the why we should care about space sustainability. How does space sustainability on earth link to sustainability in space? Thank you, Peter, and good morning to all of you. It is really, really delightful to be here in New York for this summit. I can hardly believe it is only a year since we were at the Science Museum last summer. And I think there has been really good progress actually since that summit last year. And my thanks and congratulations to everybody who has been involved in those milestones, some of which of course Guy Ryder referenced in his opening keynote. Space sustainability is an ever more important issue for us in the UK. It's become one of the priorities of our minister, our science minister, George Freeman, who spoke at that summit last year. And it's becoming clearly one of the defining issues for all of us who work in or with the space sector. And I think that's why we're seeing ever-growing numbers, and it's wonderful to hear how many people are listening to this summit online this morning as well as of course all of you here in the room. And it's of course why our space agency in the UK are working so closely with the Secure World Foundation to raise the profile of this critical issue. So just to come directly to your question, Peter, why does this matter? Well, I mean, it matters because of course what we do in space is absolutely intertwined and codependent with what we do on Earth. We could not function. Of course, most of you know this, but I'm not sure that all of our citizens from the countries that we represent really understand this yet. We couldn't really function in the way that we do today as societies without having the assets that we do in space. And of course, if we don't act in the right way to protect those assets, to set out the rules of the road, then our way of life on Earth ultimately will become less sustainable. So I think that's the key message that we have to give to our citizens. This is not because, you know, we are not spending so much time talking about sustainability because, you know, we're only interested in deep space. As inspirational as exploration is, and again we heard Guy Ryder talking about this, and I absolutely agree going back to deep space is an inspirational and important topic. But actually the things that the citizens of our countries rely on every day, you know, whether it's to manage food supplies, whether it's to manage how our energy grid works, whether it's, you know, simply doing the things that we love, streaming programs, talking to our friends in other countries, we rely on space for that. And therefore, if we don't find a sustainable way of managing space, we are not going to be able to do those things on Earth. So I think that is the key message that we have to find a way to communicate within our governments and with our citizens in order to make the decision makers take the right decisions ultimately. And this is, of course, a global challenge, stating the obvious as we're all sitting here, many of us having flown in to discuss this and people listening all around the world. And it will ultimately require a global solution. But I think that should not hold us back from doing what we can in our individual countries with our individual companies. And I hope we'll come on to talk about some really fantastic examples of what we're doing there as we move towards ultimately what we will need is some sort of global solution for this very big global challenge. But yeah, I mean, I think it's going to be a defining issue. And it's very good to hear that the United Nations is taking this seriously and putting it at the heart of its agenda for its future summit. Thank you, Rebecca. So you mentioned the potentially bad things that could happen if we don't address the sustainability issue. So I want to address my next question to Walt. So Walt is a representative of a longstanding satellite operator and one that's already experienced the debris-causing event from a derelict satellite crashing into one of yours. I'd like to ask your thoughts on where you see this issue of space sustainability as it stands today and what progress has been made over the last few years and what are some of the open challenges? Thank you, Peter. And again, thank you for the invite. I guess, as Rebecca said, the challenges really are economic. I mean, I think that's a very, very large part of what we have to deal with. As an owner operator, we have to start thinking in terms of how does space sustainability relate to the economics of the world, really. Yes, we back in 2009 was a tragedy, something I wish never had happened. But it also was a wake-up call for industry. And a wake-up call for industry, wake-up call for governments, wake-up call for even Secure World Foundation at the time to try to look at this particular issue and how we can improve this issue for owner operators, for governments, for regulatory bodies. It's unfortunate that it happened, but there's a silver lining and all of that. And that's that there is an awareness right now and it continues to improve of why this really does matter. It's your opening comments. Why do we care? Well, we care because economics makes it important for us to have space as a viable asset. And I think it's up to all of us, owner operators, governments, private entities, civil entities, to make sure we're thinking in terms of how do we sustain space? How do we sustain this opportunity that presents itself? So, you know, I'd like to think in terms of where we were 10 years ago, where we are today, and kind of where we need to be in the future. Where we need to be in the future is dependent upon responsible behaviors for all of those entities that I've already mentioned. You know, it's part of how you would like to design your satellites, how you would like to maintain your operations, how you would like to ensure that the opportunities continue to exist. The challenges there, unfortunately, are some nation-states that are non-compliant are doing ASAT tests, as you mentioned in your opening, that make it much more difficult for all of us to continue to operate in this space, no pun intended. So I'd like to think in terms of what we should be doing and what we continue to push forward, you know, the norms of behavior, as you mentioned, and the guidelines that we all continue to pursue. I think the more we talk about it, the more we press those nation-states and other owner-operators to, you know, be responsible to collaborate, to, you know, be open about it. I think that's where we really want to go, and that's what I think we should be doing. Thank you. And staying with this theme of the role of industry and all of this. Mark, last year, INMAR-SAT, which has recently merged with VSAT, released a report looking at how industry and government bodies might start down this path of space sustainability with practical and actionable initiatives that could be immediately adopted by all satellite operators. What did you learn in that exercise and what do you think has changed for 2023? Okay, thank you, Peter, and likewise, it's great to be here. That report, not that we thought we had all the perfect answers. We had a lot of good feedback from it. I think it really, we saw that space sustainability was at a tipping point. We really felt the urgency, and we wanted to flag the urgency and get feedback from people, put some ideas out there, get the discussion started about how we should move forward, because it became clear to us that time is fast running out, and we can only talk for so long, we need to get on and do some things to try and fix it. So I went back a couple of times last Saturday. I downloaded the latest catalog to see how many active spacecraft there are in orbit today, to see how many satellites have been launched since we met in London, which seems like an in about a month ago. On Saturday, it's 2,610 spacecraft, or 32% of all active spacecraft have been launched since we met in London. So that really gives you a feel for the pace of change. But then yesterday I realized that there's a Transporter 8 launch yesterday and a Starlink launch, which put another 138 satellites in orbit on Sunday. So that number's actually 2,700 and something. So it feels like we are launching stuff into space without real due consideration of the impact. We're doing things mitigation measures afterwards, and really good efforts around SSA, active dev removal. All this stuff is interesting, but it's really addressing the issue after we've caused it by once things are launched, then it's in space and then needs to be managed. So the way that we see it is that we need better understanding of the impact of something being launched in orbit. Getting, so I've fallen as trap as well, talking about the number of spacecraft. Number of spacecraft is only one metric in terms of the impact. You have the size of spacecraft, the mass, the cross-sectional area, how reliable it is, which orbit it's in. All these parameters, we need to come to some scientific consensus to understand exactly what the impact is before we launch, rather than trying to address it after we've launched. And this all comes into this orbital carrying capacity. Some way of being able to make an informed assessment about the impact, both in making sure that we don't cause a sustainability issue in the future, but also from an equitable point of view. It's all well and good people launching into thousands of spacecraft into certain orbits, but what about the people who are going to come in the future, different nations, and we heard from the excellent keynote from the UN. One of the key tenants of the UN is open and free access and equitable use of resources, especially in space. What are we doing? How do we use things like orbital carrying capacity to make that sort of, that judgment? So, yeah, a lot has happened in 12 months since London and the efforts, especially in the UK that I see, ESA, the Department of Commerce, efforts from WEF and Space Safety Coalition as well. Dan is in the room as well. These all ought to be welcomed. But I feel the time is that we really have to get a more scientific grip of what the impact is before we make decisions, which we then come to regret. Because as Rebecca said, access to space is absolutely fundamental to humanity, not for us, but also for our future generations. And unfortunately, problems we create now in space could be very long lasting indeed. And we owe it to future generations to act responsibly now, make scientific-based assessments before we actually embark in new missions. And so, yeah, so we learned a lot from the report, but a lot more to do. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, and it's amazing to think how much has happened in space since we had the summit in London just a year ago. Thanks for those launch numbers, quite sobering. So, turning then our gaze from industry to government with its role of regulation and putting in place mechanisms for governance. I'd like to address my next question to Hugo in your capacity as a government representative to Corpus and also with the Portuguese Space Agency. As Guy Ryder noted in his opening keynote, the UN is currently preparing for the summit of the future to address global challenges. And space governance has been identified as one of those themes for discussion. In your view, why is the summit important and how does, perhaps I should ask in the view of Portugal as sort of one of the newer space-faring notions. Why is the summit of the future important and how does space sustainability fit into that discussion? Thank you very much, Peter. And good morning, everyone, and thanks for inviting me. It's the conference, the symposium is wonderful, the speakers that you have. I think it's gonna be a great two days and a lot that we can also learn from for the meeting that we are gonna host next year. We heard from undersecretary general, right, that space, the summit of the future, in fact, is a request, is a result of a request from member states, right? We need the new, we are facing new global challenges and we need the multilateral agreements. We need to strengthen our global governance. This is across to all economic sectors and space is one of them. We know that space is very much discussed in Vienna and Coppus and it should always be like that, right? But what the summit of the future brings is that an opportunity to bring space to New York to be discussed at the highest level. And I think this is perhaps the first time that space is put in one of the first points of the agenda in New York. So with the summit of the future for next year, before that, we need to start having these discussions in order to have a fruitful discussion later on in September next year. So for that, what we propose to Chihuenoza with the Portuguese Space Agency and the Portuguese government is to host a conference next year on the management of space activities. This is going to be, as Mr. Raya said, in spring next year. But before that, we want to host two virtual conferences and why virtual? And nowadays everyone can meet physically, right? But the problem is that we want to be as inclusive as possible. This means that we're going to bring everyone around the globe from the different member states to discuss the three major topics that are presented in the policy brief. And the policy brief identified space traffic coordination, space debris, and resource management as the three main actions that we need to discuss upon. And so we're going to host these virtual meetings, first one in October this year, to discuss from the technical point of view. And then in March next year to discuss policy issues on these three main topics. And I was listening very carefully when Marc said about we need to look into the scientific aspects of all of these discussions. And in couples, this is a forum for member states. So normally academia and industry is not involved in the discussions. But because this conference that we are organizing is not under the couple's way of work, let's say, we will bring industry, we want to bring also academia to have these informal discussions in preparation of the conference of next year. So we will involve the member states, industry, academia during these virtual conferences again in October and March next year to have a very broad discussion to touch on the points that are difficult to discuss within couples and among member states because this will be the only way that we can prepare for the future. And we know that most of the agreements, the agreements that we have in space have been developed during the 60s, the 70s. And basically what the people back then were doing were preparing for the days that we are today. And what we will be doing in the segment of the future in discussing about the space issues, mainly on space, traffic coordination, space resources will be preparing for the next generations. It's probably not going to be so much for our generation but we're preparing the future for them. And also because of that, we will include not just these three components on the discussions but who also wants to bring use and to have the use discussing on these topics also to have their point of view then to be presented here in the summit of the future. But hopefully we'll get in May next year during our conference a good representation from member states. We are trying to bring them as all of them. We want to be inclusive from the member states from the industry also academia because altogether we need to solve the issues that we are facing and only together we can do it. We have seen that in challenging times we are able to come together so we are facing new challenging times and we'll be able to tell them together. Thank you. And staying with this theme of the role of government I'd like to address my next question to Valda. Valda, the US State Department has recently released the first ever strategic framework for space diplomacy. Can you give us a brief recap of this framework and how sustainability fits into it? Thank you, Peter, and thank you to the Secure World Foundation for hosting this event for allowing my participation in this panel along with my distinguished colleagues. I'm excited to have the opportunity to talk about the strategic framework which was approved by Secretary Blinken two weeks ago. And I think we've heard everybody who's spoken so far today sort of acknowledge that long-term space sustainability, preserving space for future generations relies on the cooperation between nations globally, private industry, academia, many different actors. And the State Department, we believe, given our role as the diplomatic lead, we are uniquely positioned to take these various diplomatic efforts that take place across the Department of State, various offices, not just my office, and how we can bring those together and elevate the role of diplomacy in this discussion of space sustainability. So that's what we've done with the creation of this strategic framework. And we've broken it into essentially three different categories or buckets, if you will. One is looking at how do we use our diplomatic efforts to advance space, secure, sustainable space. The second bucket is how do we use space to advance our diplomatical, so diplomacy for space, space for diplomacy, how do we take the excellent data, the information, the richness of the data and that we get from space, and how can we use that to address some of the global challenges that we have, whether it's climate change or severe weather or forest fires, and how can we bring that, fold that into our diplomatic discussions that we have. And then the third bucket is, you've heard everybody here talk about how rapidly things are changing in the space sector and exponentially. And the fact is we have a diplomatic core. We need to ensure that the people who work at the State Department, whether in Washington DC or who are posted overseas, understand and have the tools that they need to engage in this space diplomacy, whether it's with commercial sector actors or with foreign counterparts and interlocutors. So the third leg of this strategy is ensuring that we do the work that we need to within our own department to raise that level of knowledge and expertise. And then how does this fit into sort of sustainability writ large? I know that Hugo and I just got back from Vienna where I was head of the U.S. delegation for copious. And one of the things that we talk about there, and it's very much the role of diplomacy, is how do we implement, for example, these long-term sustainability guidelines that were agreed to after, I think, a decade in 2019. Now we're actually at the point of how do we implement them? How do we work with our partners within the U.N. to identify what each country is doing? What are the opportunities? What are the challenges? Where can we work together? So that's very much a narrative. And I think Hugo would agree that that was a very big part of the discussion that took place over the past two weeks in Vienna. And then, of course, the other piece is continuing to engage on our side, whether it's multilaterally in venues and form like copious or bilaterally through civil space dialogues or comprehensive dialogues. We engage with the commercial space sector as well because obviously that's where really the growth is and we need to make sure that they have a seat at the table. I will note that at copious, the U.S. invites, puts out a request for proposal and we do actually have representatives from academia and from the private sector who participate in recognition of the fact that these are the voices we need at the table. Need to be telling us what are the things that we might not be thinking about that we need to be thinking about and that we need to be addressing. So these are just two small examples but two key areas in which diplomacy plays a key role and I am hopeful. If you haven't read the framework, it is available on the State Department website. I'd ask you to do so. Also, very happy to get feedback, thoughts, comments from anybody who would like to offer those up. But I think that this is very much a step in the right direction for us. And in fact, I had some conversations with some international partners who said that they were particularly interested in the release of this framework, the strategic framework because they felt that this in their own foreign ministries of foreign affairs, that this would potentially, it would be an example that they could point to potentially as elevating diplomacy within their own country's space dialogues. So thank you. Thank you. Thanks very much, Valda. And I see the questions are coming in. That's great. We're getting some great questions here. Please do keep sending in those questions. So, Rebecca, following up on Valda's remarks on the role of governments for improving governments, space governance internationally, what's your take on the current status and challenges of space governance and what are some of the priority areas that the UK is focusing on? Thank you. And yeah, it's really great to see the framework. I think that's an enormous help in how we think about what it is that we need to do next. So, well, let me just say a little bit about how we're thinking about this in the UK because I think what is going to be very, very, what's going to be critical to getting by into this as we go forward is making sure that as government, we're working closely with industry to find the right kind of regulatory framework that will both deliver on what we want from space sustainability. So, continued access to space, assets which are secure and protected and allowing expansion of our activities in space as well. We, in the UK, we want to grow our space economy. We don't want to constrain growth. We want the UK to be a place where businesses want to come and conduct their space activities. So, that's got to be balanced out with the need to find some sort of regulatory framework which preserves access to space, which allows activities to be conducted sustainably, and I think that is the challenge that we are facing as we think about it. And there's a couple of different things that we're doing in the UK as we try and explore what we think would work domestically, of course in line with all of those other things that are going on on the international level. And so, we are working with our industry in the UK to look at a voluntary standard as a sort of initial way of testing what it is we might be aiming at. And there's some really good work going on which hopefully we'll hear more about later this year to see the kind of standards that we could expect industry to adhere to with potentially future benefits when it comes to licensing and insurance models as well. So, a bit of regulation and a bit of benefit to balance out the approach. We have got a number of mechanisms in the UK which we've established to make sure that we're having a really open dialogue with industry. We've got a Space Safety Regulatory Council which is run by our Transport Department which is a really important forum for hearing how industry are feeling about what we're doing in government. And then, the other thing that we're doing is we are about to issue a consultation around how we think about liabilities in space. Again, bringing together the interests from the insurance community, the investment community, the business community, with government, including our regulators to try and come to some sort of sweet spot which will allow us to manage what we want to do in space sustainably but make sure that we're continuing to grow our space economy. Because if we don't do that, then ultimately the political interest in what we're trying to do here will wane. We need to have a strong business voice working with government in order to make sure we come to the right political solution. That's my message there. Thank you. And that's sort of a perfect lead into the next question I want to ask because you talk about building the space economy and so I'd like to turn to our industry representatives on the panel. So Mark, one of the themes for the summit over the next two days is how to reinforce space sustainability through corporate actions. And so, can you talk to us about why space sustainability is key to commercial growth and how space companies are looking to incorporate space sustainability and ESG into their businesses? Yeah, so I can talk from the legacy in my sat business and the approach that we took to space sustainability and it is a topic which has got a lot of corporate attention and we invested a significant effort in understanding what our impact was going to be. And in fact, we I think were the first company to actually offset our launch carbon emissions. We went through a scientific process of determining how much that was because it was important then when we had an ESG initiative that it wasn't greenwashing, it was really, this was actually meaningful and actually trying to address something and again come back to a scientific approach. So yeah, I'm really looking forward to hearing. I know a panel session I think is a self noon on ESG and I'm really looking forward to that because I think for all organizations it's a very important topic and will only become more important. And I would ask that when people look at this they do it in that scientific way to make sure they're implementing things which are really meaningful and are going to cause long term benefit. I, in a, we're in a space bubble, we're talking investment bubble for many years in space, whether there's a real bubble or whether it's going to come to an end. I think there was an interesting conference in London last week hosted by the Financial Times where maybe some of the a bit of a reality check for some parts. We've got to be careful that we don't start promoting an environment where you have sort of a Silicon Valley type of, let's invest in 10 companies and hope one pays off as going to be a unicorn and the other nine just die away because if the other nine launch stuff into space they can't just die away. That would be very bad and there's been, you know, from personal experience in terms of almost got to a point when Iridium was decommissioned and brought back in but luckily managed to find a way forward and then a very prosperous company come out of it. But that model, well that might not happen again in the future. We need to be careful about when investment is made it's made in a responsible way with a strong ESG agenda. Thank you. And then just following through on this Walt Iridium as for many years been an active voice in developing voluntary industry-based practices and guidelines for space sustainability through engaging in various initiatives like the Space Safety Coalition or the development of the, recently of the document containing the orbital safety-based practices that Iridium worked on with OneWeb and SpaceX. So what relationship if any do these industry-driven efforts have to space sustainability discussions in the multilateral fora? How do we avoid a sort of fragmentation and duplication of efforts? And what role do you think those multilateral fora have in ensuring that industry follows through on these voluntary commitments? So thank you Mark for noting the challenges that Iridium had and how successful we've been and really we're very proud of that. We are very proud of what we've done in promoting space sustainability and you cited a few documents that we've endorsed and written. What I'm excited about and I think you mentioned it earlier is how that opens up opportunities for young professionals and also for new businesses. I was looking beyond you and the event sponsors, if you look at some of the names there, the catapults, the leo labs, the slingshots, right? They weren't there 10 years ago and we have to start thinking in terms of how do the rules of the road, the guidelines, the promotability of sustainability, all of that, it somewhat enables all of those new businesses and the opportunities for young professionals going forward. So where do I see it? I kind of always look forward again. I'm always trying to think in terms of how do we continue to promote these rules of the road, these guidelines, these best practices and how does that then enable new businesses and new capabilities and opportunities out there for some of the things that we mentioned earlier about economics and about how that will all enable not just businesses to grow, but new businesses to grow and then you reach into CIS Lunar as you're going to talk about later. I really do believe that it's in our best interests as owner operators, as government regulators, as the UN to continue to push this forward so that new businesses start to thrive, start to prosper and it's not the nine that fail, it's the 10 that are successful that I think will actually help space sustainability going forward forever. If we keep that momentum up, that's what I think we really need to continue to do, just keep that momentum up, keep those things in the forefront of all of the agencies that I mentioned earlier and then I think it's going to become a much easier process. So that's what I think we need to do and I think we continue to do that. Thank you. So now I'd like to take the discussion in a slightly new direction and this to talk about CIS Lunar activities. So I'd like to address my next question to Valda. Valda, one of the themes for our summit is CIS Lunar space, the expansion of activities into CIS Lunar space and the renewed interest in Lunar space activities. I know this is something that the US is looking at with the Artemis Accords. Can you talk about how you're approaching this issue and how we can build international government's frameworks for space activities beyond Leo? Thanks very much, Peter. And I think the Artemis Accords are really a success story that is shared by all the now 25 signatories. And I would note that we signed with an original eight in 2000, we're up to 25. Spain just signed last week, a week and a half ago at the Africa Leaders Summit in Washington. We had two African nations signed. So the number of signatories is growing and I suspect that most in the audience know what the Artemis Accords are, but in case somebody doesn't, it's a set of non-legally binding principles that countries voluntarily agree to that talk about how they will conduct themselves in space as responsible space actors. And I think this is a, the Artemis Accords offer an excellent starting point for some of these important discussions that we are having about sustainability. Initially, the goal was to get more signatories. That remains a goal we would very much welcome. Any country that wants to adhere or plans to adhere to these principles to join the Artemis Accords. But the Artemis Accords need to be something more than simply a list of signatories that have signed on to these. We need to do something practical with it. And so last September at the International Astronautical Congress in Paris, we had the first ever meeting of the then 21 signatories. It was heads of space agencies, so very senior representation. And we talked about what the Accords mean, what do we do with the Accords now that there is this momentum and more and more countries willing to join. And we have created, when I say we, I mean the Artemis Signatories. I'm not saying the United States because this is a shared endeavor, have created two working groups as part of the Artemis Accords, the larger Artemis Accords signatories group. And one is focused on deconflicting activities on the lunar surface. And the second is focused on, I believe we haven't, the group hasn't agreed on a name, but essentially what is the, a group focused on what is the value of joining the Artemis Accords if you are perhaps a nation that is a nascent space-faring nation or a nation that may not ultimately be in the space industry, why would it be in your interest to join the Accords? And so these two groups have been meeting monthly, virtually, and will have sort of provide a readout and a way forward when we meet again in Baku on the margins of the next IAC. And I think it's important to note that this, from a US perspective, we are very heartened to know that, for example, one of the working groups, it's not led by the US. We have two other Artemis signatories who have stepped up to lead and move this forward. And so that is, and there's room at the table, these sustainability issues have been raised and there's something that we are grappling with and the Accords, that group of actors, the more we work together, the more people we bring into the Artemis Fold, it's a wonderful platform to discuss these sustainability issues and get the various views from partners who are differently situated, some who are advanced space-faring nations, some who are newer to space, and those are all valuable voices and this gives us an opportunity to include those voices, hear what they have to say, and then, of course, bring this information and these conversations into the multilateral fora that we have, for example, at Copius. So it's very much something that is complementary to existing multilateral efforts and I think enriches them. Thank you, Val. And sort of following on from the point you just made towards the end, are you with your reference to Copius, as many people in the room know, that Copius went through a lengthy eight-year process to generate the guidelines for space sustainability and a number of the member states are now focused on the implementation of those guidelines. I know this is a matter of interest to Portugal, so I'd like to address my next question to Hugo is, and that is how can national governments work with UNUSA and Copius on space sustainability in general and the implementation of the LTS guidelines in particular? Thank you, Peter. Well, we have heard this morning already that Copius was created just three years after the launch of the first satellite and during that period, the work that has been done in the committee, it was done through very challenging times. They are different today, but also we are facing challenging moments where some nations see space in different ways. But one very interesting thing about Copius is that, for example, just last week, as Val mentioned, we finished the 66th session and although the two last days were very long days until 11 p.m., it was able that 102 members of Copius came to an agreement and the report was adopted and accepted by everyone. They call it, this is the spirit of Vienna. I think you're very well known, this spirit of Vienna, where in the end there's always a way to find consensus among everyone. And we also discussed today that we need to prepare for the future and preparing in two ways. One is resource management, things to US. We are, again, back to explore space in a different way that has been exploring the last decades. So we need to look at it and how we will do it. And the second way, it's, again, space sustainability in what comes to Earth's orbit. Everyone here, perhaps, has used space information or space data coming to this meeting. It could be meteorological data to see if you have to bring your umbrella or not or where do you have to walk in New York to find the venue. So we need to ensure that the sustainability of space activities and this is why it is important to reinforce COPUS, where the discussions about space are being held within the member states. And also, UNOSA. The next 10 years is gonna be very important to discuss these issues that I just mentioned. Of course, sustainability comes to space traffic coordination also space debris. But this will be very important next 10 years because wherever we do now, it's gonna have impact on the daily lives we have here and also how we will explore the space. The other aspect is if you fast forward a little bit and we are returning to the moon and when you go to the moon, you, again, you will need telecommunications, you need positioning systems. So meaning that you have satellites orbiting the moon to provide this service to you. So the moon is a little bit different from Earth because there's no atmosphere so you cannot burn satellites in the atmosphere kind of going down to the moon. And so a total different concept has to be think about between us all on how to address the congestion of orbits around the moon. There is why it is important for one aspect that the fact that we just finished the discussions on LTS and we're already initiating the discussion on LTS 2.0 because we need to look forward and we need to see how it's going to be in the future. But the point right now is also important is the implementation of the LTS. And I think the member states have an important point in two ways. One, again, reinforcing COPPUS and UNOSA's role at UN level and also on looking to future of coordination of space activities. But also member states has an important point which is implementing the LTS that has been agreed between all member states. In our case in Portugal, we are just translating this LTS into our national space law where companies will have to show how they will comply with these guidelines. So to wrap up and again, we need very strong international collaborations. So we need to continue work that has been done in COPPUS, take the opportunity of the summit of the future and the conference that is going to be organized to have the discussions that are more difficult to have in a formal meetings, but to have these discussions in this conference next year, to bring it to summit of the future because it's also through the difficult conversations and the difficult discussions that we're going to have that then we can support the working COPPUS and moving forward in the next phase of exploration. Thank you. So this is a good point to transition over to the audience questions. And one of the first questions that I'd like to ask, it's been posed by the audience, relates to things such as the LTS guidelines which are voluntary non-binding commitments. And so the question is, are voluntary practices going to be enough to prevent the next collision in space? Who would like to have a go at that? Excellent question. I mean, the first thing I'd say is it's a concern that we've all had is whether these voluntary guidelines are enough or do we have to move towards regulation? Personally speaking, I believe that the voluntary guidelines are moving us in the right direction. Whether it gets us to that end game, I don't know. I think at some point in time, there's probably some soft regulations that need to come into play. At the same time, you don't want those regulations to inhibit the economic growth. And that's where I think the challenge really becomes is if you restrict certain things and make it so that it's really difficult for some of the new entrants to benefit from the opportunities in space, I think that's where your challenge is. So the quick answer is, I think guidelines are moving us in the right direction. I think at some point in time, we'll probably go to some sort of soft regulation. Yeah, well, also to building on that, just to make the point that the guidelines are non-binding, right? But non-binding doesn't mean non-legal in the sense that states can choose to implement these non-binding kind of political commitments that they've made in four alike corpus into their national legislation for the authorization and ongoing supervision of space activities. We've seen that, for example, with the space debris guidelines, right? Now, it's quite a number of nations have done that. So there is a, I agree with you, there is kind of a route there to implementing them in sort of legal frameworks. It was just one comment to follow on. I do get concerned that the voluntary and the best practice are good initiatives. I do get concerned that they're seen as the answer. They're not, they're a useful tool, maybe, but actually something more substantial needs to be behind it in the end. And I think, as with any global commons, I think some form of regulation is needed because I can't think of a global commons that has been unregulated and has been successful or hasn't been environmentally impacted in a large way. So you look at global fishing, for example, that is a regulated global commons. And I think it's something similar will be needed eventually. Hopefully not in the too distant future, because I say, if we're launching two and a half thousand spacecraft every year, we don't have a huge amount of time to make sure we're getting this right. Yeah. Rebecca? Yeah, just add one further thought, which is, I mean, I tend to agree, I think ultimately voluntary approaches will probably not get us all of the way there. But what they are useful for is testing approaches and what works and what doesn't work, whereas creating heavy-handed regulation from the off can be quite dangerous if you don't get it right. So you've got this as a useful approach for testing. And I think also for demonstrating that it can be done, that you can find the pathway which will allow economic activity to flourish while achieving the ends of sustainability. And I think if we're able to demonstrate through different initiatives, led by governments of nations that believe that this is an important issue, actually makes the global discussion much easier because you've got some very practical and workable examples with which to demonstrate that it can be achieved on a global scale. Thank you. So the next topic that I'd like to move to, another question posed by the audience, is we talk about multi-stakeholder engagement in these discussions, especially in the multilateral fora, but that presents challenges. So my question to you and a number of you on the panel are involved in copious delegations. How do you see this multi-stakeholder engagement working in practice? Robert. So I will say this year was my first in-person copious. It's slow, it's frustrating, but ultimately, I mean, it's one of these things, it's a slow, steady process. And I think they're, and truly just having come back, the highs and lows of the last two weeks in copious, I don't think there's any substitute for the face-to-face diplomatic engagement, the building the relationships consistently at the subcommittees, at the plenary. It's difficult, but we have to be sitting down and we have to be open to hearing all views and there truly are, as you know, a real diversity of views, but that is the only way forward. And I think you have to have the right temperament and a lot of patience, but I think this is truly the way forward and it's long and slow, but the expression, I think I'm gonna get it wrong, but NASA says, to the effect of we will go further if we go together. And that's a slow process, but ultimately a more fruitful one, I believe. Well, yeah, totally agree with you. My first couples was last year in presence and it's very difficult to have 102 different ways of seeing the same thing and bringing everyone together to the point that we all agree in a sentence. It's very difficult because the ways you read it, you need to make sure that who's going to read that is going to understand what you meant when you wrote that. And so it's very difficult and it is true that having these physical meetings now back in Vienna, it helps the discussions, it helps them come to an agreement. And you just need to have nerves of steel to wait until the very last moments when all the agreements normally are reached and to be able to discuss very vividly during those times until we reach the agreement. But multilateral agreements will be the only way to move forward. Yeah, and I think that the challenge for KOPORS is going to be particularly how we engage the industry, that's right, because the industry is accumulating so much experience on orbit, experience of safe and sustainable space activities. And that's one of the challenges facing KOPORS. I think ITU has kind of put a head in that regard. Valde, you can pick up on this. To double down on that, Peter, you know, not all delegations bring representatives from the private sector. I would very much like to see greater private sector representation at KOPUUS through technical presentations and other engagement. Increasingly is more important than ever and we need to find a way, not just a U.S. industry, but industry from across the globe. They need to have a voice there, I think if we're gonna really address these challenges in a holistic way. Thank you. If I might just on that and also on the previous question, is that when you think about the summit of the future, one of the things that could be important to discuss will be exactly what Valde said, that is how to bring the private industry and academia into a more open discussion also in KOPUUS and having their voices also heard in a different way in KOPUUS because the first question was about how to in the second, the first one was implementing the LTS right in a voluntary way. It's in the best interest of the space operators to do it as they look forward to not having these congestion issues or having the space crafts colliding with each other. So, but it's also important to have their views in KOPUUS on how to work all together because industry moves in a really, really fast pace when compared to the discussions that we're having at members at its level. So we need to have both working together on that as well. Thank you. So our time is catching up with us. There's one question that I'd like to pose to the panel and to get quick responses and then we'll do sort of the wrap up. So we've been talking a lot about multi-stakeholder engagement but there's also the question of multi-generational engagement and what role do you see for young professionals to play in these processes and discussions? We'd like to have a go at this. I'll go first. The experience that we've had is the younger generation are totally get the sustainability thing. They understand it and they're really motivated about it. So I look at the teams in our organization who are running in the committees about space sustainability. They're much, much younger average age than the rest of the company. They really get it and they're really motivated to do. And for me, that's a great sign that the future generations have really, they think about, this is part of that. They don't think about it because they have to think about it. They think about it because they want to think about it and find solutions. And I take great comfort that there's people coming through who are smart people who have clever ideas about how to address some of this. Thank you. I absolutely agree with you. As I mentioned earlier, I just think the opportunity is endless and they are really on that bleeding edge there. They are looking at things from a sustainability standpoint from an ESG perspective. And then they also bring this kind of startup mentality of what can we do next to make this a more sustainable environment that we deal with. Absolutely. Alda, did you want to? I was just gonna say back to a point that you made earlier, Rebecca, about how do we talk about space so that it resonates not just as an aspirational, like going back to the moon and then beyond to Mars, but why everyday, why everybody should care about it. And I think making it more accessible from where I sit at the State Department, when we do outreach, there are many different ways to come to space and work on these fascinating and incredibly important issues. You can come from an engineering background and astrophysics background. You can be a philosophy major. I mean, there's a lot of different ways and there's room for everybody to grapple and tackle these incredibly interesting challenge. And we need all of those different perspectives. So I think how do we communicate that it's STEM and that the incredibly important, you know, more women and STEM, but also that there's no one way to get into doing this work. Rebecca, did you have a point you want to make as well? Well, I think this is an issue of the future and the young people are our future. And we saw what Greta Thunberg did for the climate change debate. Maybe we need a Greta for space. If there's somebody out there who wants to be Greta, please stand up. We've got some young people here with us at this summit. Maybe it's one of you. But I do think there is a way that we need to harness the youth voice and how we communicate this is an issue. And I think, you know, as governments, we don't, it can be perceived as quite a technical, sort of technocratic type issue. Of course, it's not, you know, it's an existential issue and we need to find a way to present it in that way. So I think stand up the next Greta and we'll get in touch. Thank you. Well, that's great. So our time has caught up with us. I'd like to wrap up this panel. But before doing so, I just want to give each of our panelists 10 seconds, your top takeaway message from today that you'd like the audience to, starting with you. We're starting with me. Okay, no pressure. For me, the takeaway message is the need to work with our commercial sector colleagues more intensely, more thoroughly, internationally. That is going to be a key if we're going to get our hands around the sustainability issue. Great, thank you. Rebecca? I think for me, this is about how we talk to our citizens about this being a priority and how we expand the range of the conversations that we're having about this issue because it really does touch on so many walks of life. Thank you. Well, economics. It's, you know, you have here in New York and this is the center of the economic universe really. It's all about economics and how we can all prosper in this and the only way to do that is by a space sustainability. Thank you. Okay. Time is running out, time is the essence and we need to act quickly. We need to do some things more than we've done in the past. It needs to be material and have a real impact in terms of where we are in terms of what's an orbit in 10 years time and how it's managed. Thank you. Well, I agree with my colleagues in the panel that I will just focus on the summit of the future in the conference on management and sustainability of space activities next year in Portugal. Summit of the future is gonna be a very important moment to have the discussions. We want to bring news, the academia and the industry all together. So we'll be happy to listen from you guys. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Well, that brings us to the end of this panel. Please join me in thanking our speakers.