 Hello and welcome to NewsClick. Today we have with us Mr. Vijay Shankar, the editor of Frontline. Very recently Mr. Rajnigand has announced his political plunge in a more unexpected time. So sir, to start with, what do you think is the impact of Rajnigand's entry into the politics? Rajnigand's actually, even now it's suspense. Actually only when he announces it and only when he launches the party with the name and the flag can we really trust him. But I think this time he's serious. We know why I say this. Actually when Rajnigand announced his entry into politics, suddenly somebody dug out some old issue of Junior Vikadam, one of the popular magazines which came out some 25 years ago. It had the cover with a question, no, it's Rajnigand's picture. Will Rajnigand come to politics? So this has been happening for the past 25-30 years. He's been talking about it. But again, people gave up hope. Only this Rajnigand's association, they were pressing him every now and then. There should be posters about Rajnigand being our chief minister. Please come and take over leadership, that kind of thing. Otherwise, nobody took him seriously because he was really into a lot of... Because he's a superstar, entire film industry depended on him because he provided a lot of employment for people. And the superstar state is brand, because he's a brand. Actually, the film industry benefited by that. So he was considering more on that. So making money, that was the real thing. So people actually gave up what really happened to us. Some three years ago, again, he made a very serious announcement that he's going to start at a college function. Why these three years? It's very important because he decided to make this announcement at a time when two stalwarts were not there. One Jrelitha. Jrelitha is passing away five years ago or four years ago. And Karuna is leaving in two years. So now there is a... People think that there is a vacuum now. Two big leaders are out. So that, given the courage to, that's what we believe. So he announced it still. After that also, he was really postponing it because the last time, after that announcement, he asked his fans club to work among the people to create mandrams. Mandram means, I don't know how to translate. Mandram is more than a club because it's a kind of social service organization. So all over Tamil Nadu, he was asked them to convert into the membership drive, everything promised. But later, he used to meet his fan club members, office bearers at Kalyana Mandapam. He won't send Chennai. So at that meeting, people were again, there was a lot of expectation. Media was waiting for him. He was supposed to make an announcement. He came and... But he suddenly went all out against the fans club. That's mandram. Office bearers saying that you didn't do your work properly. You didn't do whatever I asked you to do. And in between, you had to take action against two people for some corruption charge or something again. So these are the... Then he announced it. Then he blamed it. Then he left. So people thought that again... So he says, only if you are prepared and only if there is an uprising... They call it Yidhi chi in Tamil. Only if there is an uprising, they come to politics. So usually it's the other way around. People come to politics and create a kind of situation where people fight against something, some major movement. But he wanted some major uprising first, then he wanted to enter the state. So then again people gave up hope. And again two, three meetings happened. And the last meeting, I'm giving the background because it's very important to understand the manner. So last meeting that came to Mandabhumi just before that meeting. The final meeting where he finally made the announcement. He will announce a party on December 31st. Just a bit before that something happened in Tamil Nadu. Suddenly a WhatsApp message was doing the rounds. It was going viral. It spoke about Rajini's real health situation. And the first time he came to know that he had some real problem. He had to undergo kidney transplant. He was in Singapore for a long time. But we didn't know that. So that video was doing the rounds. So without... And Rajini Gaut after two days of video, even big newspaper reported. And Rajini Gaut came out and two days later I think he said that what the video says is true about my health condition. That's what he says. But he didn't want to say whether he will come to politics or not. Then people thought that he's going to make that an excuse for not entering politics. So what I... From all this I think that there are some kind of reluctance up to the last announcement. Some kind of reluctance. So the way he made this announcement also is very, very suspicious. He came to the Mandabhumi. He met the office bearers. Then he went back. And he made this grand announcement of the party like again from the gates of... From his residence. He always made... He doesn't convene a press conference. He always mimics them and... So he made this announcement. So finally people believe that he'll come to politics. But the way... The circumstances in which it was held. It's very interesting if you... I don't know if you watch the video. There are two people standing next to him. One was Thamizharvi Manian who has been persuading him for a long time. Thamizharvi Manian. This person who was persuading him for a long time. Even he gave up some few months ago. Later he was standing. There is another person standing next to Rajnikanth. That is the most important thing. Nobody knew who it was. Suddenly Rajnikanth announced that this name is Arjanamurthy. This man is going to be the coordinator of my party. So then people started... There is a lot of speculation. Who is this Arjanamurthy? Then the real thing came out within two hours. BJP makes an official announcement that Arjanamurthy was there. BJP's intellectual being, which is an oxymoron in my opinion. BJP's intellectual being is an oxymoron. It's a contradiction in terms. So he didn't say he was hitting it. Nobody knew that there was an intellectual being in BJP, especially in Tamil Nadu. So he was expelled. He was relieved from this. So then... It's not... Suddenly, until that moment, nobody knew who Arjanamurthy was. So this announcement and his expulsion, it was typical RSS state. RSS dispatches people, deputes people to various sister organizations, Sankhparivar organizations to do their work. That's we know the RSS functioning. But here is a very strange situation. A party... It looks like that. I am not saying that RSS sent him. But the way they went about it, somebody has been deputed, whether it's BJP or RSS, to a party which is yet to be launched. It's a very, very ironic, strange situation. So this created the impression that he is under some compulsion to come to politics. So even now I believe that he is a reluctant politician. Rajnikanth has that film personality. Magic is there, definitely. In the Rajnikanth movies, the mood is completely different. Even educated people. I know many highly educated people who are living abroad. Even he has fan clubs in Japan. That's a different thing. But politics, does he have that kind of pull? I don't think so. People are very clear in Tamil Nadu about politics. Only person who really succeeded is M.G. Ramachandran. But M.G. Ramachandran was not only an actor. He was a politician also throughout his life. He was part of DMK. DMK benefited because of him. His fan club and DMK organization cannot be separated. He was a politician. He knew politics. He was part of political movements. But Rajnikanth doesn't have any of these experiences. So you need that kind of M.G. Ramachandran. And again, this story doesn't repeat itself. We heard that the same way. M.G. Ramachandran is a different setting. Different era. Rajnikanth is in a completely different way. What is his political experience? Politics is not very easy. I know people outside Tamil Nadu have that in Tamil Nadu cinema and politics. You cannot separate. It's not true. M.G. Ramachandran's case is different. They don't know that M.G. Ramachandran was also a politician. And Jaylitha succeeded. Some kind of charisma was there. But she inherited a huge organization created by M.G. Ramachandran. Now they are going to celebrate their 50th year now. Huge organization. In Tamil Nadu, politics is very interesting. No other party is able to enter because of the split of the DMK. The split is sustaining the Dravidian movement. One Dravidian movement is more rooted in the kind of ideology. They have something. Another thing is people who are not very familiar with the ideology. People are very supportive of that idea. They are in the DMK. So this two-party thing within Tamil Nadu, actually in my opinion, the split in Dravidian movement is keeping it alive. Now it may change because the DMK will not be able to sustain itself for a long time. At this rate, there is no leader who can keep the DMK together. So the future of the DMK is not only visible. Any political party which plays even the left parties, Congress is difficult. Congress cannot, even if you give it to them and platter, they will just throw it away. They know how to do it because there will be 100 hands to take the plate. But any party which plays imaginative politics, taking into account the economic political situation, the changes that are happening. For example, the farmers who do expect such a huge agitation. So objective situation. And Tamil Nadu, in my opinion, the DMK is likely to win this time. Even after that, there will be a huge question. How the DMK government is going to really fare in this election? After even if they come to power, real issues will come. So there is a space now, really. There is an opening now. It is not huge enough for the two Rajinigans to walk in. But this gap, this space is going to increase. There is no doubt about it. Who will fill this space? And how? This is the politics of Tamil Nadu in the next 10 years. Talking about the political affiliations of Rajnikan. Since 2014, we have seen him endorse the policies of the BJP and the huge announcement of Narendra Modi including demonetization. So do you think that he has more proximity to the right more than any other political ideology? Yeah, it is very clear. Many affiliations, even in his films, he is used to really like anti-women liberation. He talks about how women should be subservient, that kind of stuff. And even another movie I watched recently, he says in one of the movies where these people know this big actor, they choose their dialogue also, songs. So he can't say that it is only written by somebody else. So there is a strike in the factory. He goes and talks to the workers saying that the relationship between the worker and the management is like husband and wife relationship. It should happen only inside the factory premises. It should not come out. He is known for his backward looking views throughout his films. Though he acts like a revolutionary, most of them have very backward looking views. And specific issues, as we said, demonetization, he was completely supporting. Then the worst part of it is people in Tamil Nadu got angry with him because there was a big protest against airline. Some 13 people were killed brutally in brutal day night by the police. So there was a big protest. Rajnikanth went and met these victims at the airport. He made a very devastating statement without supporting the protesters or at least showing some sympathy to people who are really affected by that, who are shot down. He just said that if you are going to fight all the time, if you talk about strike or any movement or agitation all the time, nobody can save Tamil Nadu. It will become a kind of graveyard. He is basically a kind of rightward looking, backward looking, right this views throughout his life. And even on issues also he comes out like that. So that is it. And he called Amit Shah and Modi recently like Krishna and Arjuna. And now people are still trying to make out who is Krishna and who is Arjuna. That is the kind of thing. He also tries to kind of agree after his movie projects are over. He goes to Himalayas. He presents himself as a kind of very religious person always in Dhyana. But when he comes to money, he is not always making money. That is a different thing. He is very particular about it. But that is a different thing. It is a profession. But he presents himself as a religious spiritually minded person. He always goes to Himalayas. He goes in search of whole Swamiji. He is in touch with many spiritual personalities. That kind of thing. So it suits BJP. It is a perfect natural life actually for BJP. With what you said, we were introduced with a new term called spiritual politics some three years back when he made the big announcement. So do you think that he has a complete understanding of what actually is the reality the issues of communalism, corruption. Lot of things we have to overcome in Tamil Nadu. No, it is very interesting. Running a famous statement is system kettupoche. That means system sareela. Overall there is a statement is okay. But what kind of system he is talking about? Is he talking about the political system? Is he talking about federal system of governance in India? Or he is talking about the economic system where neoliberalism is on the rise. Or is he talking about social system where caste hierarchy, caste atrocities are happening and where this caste system. So we don't know what system he talks about. It is a very general kind of statement. The problem with these actors including Kamala as in most of the time they have taken generalities to this and asking questions. So this vagueness is not going to help what system, what are you going to fight against? Whom are you going to fight against? See in all these games, even Kamala as in whatever these actors they play a very interesting game. It is like this where you don't see the real actors. You don't really attack people who are begin corruption. Who is begin corruption? Who is begin all these problems in India? Who is begin poverty? Who is begin farmer's agitation? Policies. You don't talk about any policy at all. What is your alternative policy? It is too much for them. See I don't want to touch their brains with these questions. But you have to answer these questions when you come to politics. How are you going to run it? Initially a month back by the end of October you referred to that explanation of Rajnikanth also. His health concerns. Now with the declaration of that he is going to take the political pledge. Will he be able to meet the masses considering his health issues and the cadres which he has as you usually refer that they are all 50 plus or more than 25 plus. So will he be able to go to the masses? I know see for the past 8 months at least for the 9 months we stayed at home for a few months then we started coming out and we have to go with all the social distancing norms. As far as I know Rajnikanth didn't come out of this boys garden house or his son other farm house he has. So he has to take care of his health. See we are all opposing his politics. I am asking many questions about his politics. He has to take care of his health. It's good that he stayed inside. Even his meet the press programs happened just outside the gate. He doesn't even meet people. Election is a different ball game. You have to go and meet the people. Even if Rajnikanth is going to make a huge impact you have to go and see the people. There will be a big crowd. If you announce that Rajnikanth is going to appear in public in any corner of Tamil Nadu there will be a huge crowd. Whether it come to be converted into votes is a different thing. It will be there. But will he risk it? One, risking Corona. Even if it is not Corona you know the punishing schedule. You must have seen even Jailitha even when she was not well. They used to travel for one month program. One month touring almost all parties. Is it possible for Rajnikanth to do it? It is very difficult. More important question is you need to win elections. Elections are won at polling booths. Not from your stage. Not from your conferences or public meetings. Public meetings should have been the prime minister for a long time. He was a very popular leader. But the thing is the organization on the ground. So Rajnikanth with his fan club. If he is not going to align with any party as he says. Fan club, you cannot match traditional political parties which has been in the game. Which have been in the game of bringing people to the election booths and booth management is an art in itself. For that you need a lot of political experience and you are facing two major parties who are veterans. At least two parties. Even other parties for example the left parties who are relatively weak they are very good in this ground level politics. Without that you cannot win elections. Going house to house and talking to people. That kind of thing should happen. My point is in Tamil Nadu politics there is no vacuum like Andhra. NTR when he formed the party. People always talk about NTR. NTR's case, Congress was a dominant party. There was no very distant second. There was a left party. Left party was a very distant second. Left parties. So there was no major opposition. There was a political vacuum there and NTR walks in and people felt really insulted by the change of at least five chief minister in two years or three years. One chief minister was dismissed at the airport by Indira Gandhi. They felt that they may have been insulted. The kind of feeling that BJP invited in Tamil Nadu that is the kind of feeling exists against BJP. So this kind of anger and where he enters and he is feeling image this sense of insult, the anger that turns into politics. But in Tamil Nadu's situation there are very big, too big players with about 60% of votes. Then you have Dalit parties two Dalit parties with their pockets of influence. You have left parties with their pockets of them with two or three percent. Then you have another big party like one-year party PMK which is very strong in that is some 5% of the votes. So already the political space is very narrow for any person to enter. This is the situation in Tamil Nadu. So a person who wants to make really a kind of storm into the sea there is no real anger against even against ADLK. There is no huge anger against ADLK. That is the reality. You have to admit it. But what is happening is already political space is divided among all these big parties and small parties. 70 to 80% So you have maybe or a floating population of people who are not desired, not politically oriented. People are not voters of any political 20-25% So for a person to really make a breakthrough he should be either politically very strong. He should capture people's imagination with his politics. What is Rathnegana's politics? Or he should have the organizational to strengthen and break all these parties What is Rathnegana's strength? Thanks. It will not work. Fan clubs cannot peak. They can really create cutouts and pour milk over it to conduct mabhi shaykhans. But they cannot win elections. So organizationally, politically and ideologically where do you stand? So in three respects Rathnegana do not hit my opinion. Unless he produces miraculously in January organizationally, ideologically and politically he should be the kind of force which will really break all these parties and bring at least 5-10% from all these formations to win an election. Which is, as of now it is not going to happen. It is very clear for people who are observing the scene and you have Kamala Khan also he will take away some city votes. So where is the space for Rathnegana and where is his force? From where does he get this strength to attract all these votes like a magnet? He should be able to attract people voters from all these parties break all these parties base to win even to get from 20% which is not possible in my opinion unless some major something happens. I don't know. I don't know. Some kind of some God comes down and tells people that you work for every temple some kind of miracle should happen. Otherwise only a miracle can help it. Maybe 5-10% maximum.