 Good morning everybody and good afternoon and good evening to those of you joining us from further afield online Welcome to US IP. My name is Lucy Kurtzer Ellen Bogan I direct our institutes program on Israel the Palestinian territories and the region and it's truly my pleasure to welcome you here today and Also for us to be able to bring you this important conversation on the game-changing potential of water in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and indeed beyond more broadly in the Middle East We have three truly exemplary speakers to talk us through this subject today Yana Abu Talib, Nada Majdelani and Ghidan Bromburg who respectively are the Jordanian-Palestinian and Israeli co-directors of Echo Peace Middle East Echo Peace is an organization that brings Jordanians Palestinians and Israelis together to cooperate around shared solutions to Environmental challenges that don't respect borders or politics as we well know Echo Peace was I should note recently awarded a Mepper Middle East Partnership for Peace Act grant administered by USAID Enabling their ongoing work addressing war-sweat security in the West Bank Gaza and Israel using dual-track Scientific and grassroots approaches. I think it's really fitting that we're having this conversation today It's notable we're a week out from the White House releasing its national security strategy Where it named climate change as an existential shared global problem and called for global cooperation around such challenges We're also I think about two weeks out from the UN's COP 27 climate change conflict Which is going to bring leaders from around the world to get together to discuss these shared challenges in Ghidan, Nada's and Yana's neighboring Egypt We are also a week out of signing of seeing the signing of a maritime boundary agreement between Israel and Lebanon and perhaps that's something we can get into as well in terms of what that says about Clean energy reserves and the potential for broader regional movement in this regard In the most water scarce region in the world where the collision of climate and conflict conspired towards potential Catastrophe Ghidan Nada and Yana work every day to change that paradigm So that a shared problem can open the door to mutual benefit confidence building and perhaps conflict mitigation momentum and so while 90 minutes is really too short a time to do Comprehensive justice to all that we could discuss today I have great confidence that with the speakers we have we can get pretty close So what I'd like to do is dive into a conversation among us up here We will then open to questions from our online and in-person audience And we're looking forward to the discussion Yana, I'd like to ask you to start us off If you could describe echo pieces approach essentially the what high and what What how and why of the work that you do how you operate and the challenges surrounding water in your region? Well, good morning everyone and thank you very much Lucy and a special. Thank you to the entire US IP team for hosting us. It's such a pleasure to be here and once again Talk about our work and gain more support that is needed For our work, especially in a region like ours That is torn with conflict, but also now With the climate change Disaster that we're seeing effecting every resource in our region, so I'd like to always begin Describing echo piece by saying we are a unique trilateral environmental peace building organization with one objective To really bring together Jordanian, Israeli Israelis and Palestinians to protect our shared environment and to achieve sustainable development an a fair share of Equitable sharing of our limited resources between our people and Between people and nature How do we do this as a group of Having offices in the three countries we work in two ways We have we work with a top-down approach meaning we aim at policy change Trying to work with the governments of our regions with the authorities of each of our countries that are Responsible for the different sectors we focus on the water energy and food because we're always working on creating that Nexus between water energy and the and food So, but how do we change policy? So we work with our respective authorities by Preparing the necessary research and data to be able to influence policy change The second approach that we work with is our grassroots us being a grassroots organization meaning we exist in communities around Our shared resources Especially in the Jordan River, which is a lower part of the Jordan River Which is shared between Jordan Israel Palestine, but we also have bilateral work on between Israeli and Palestinian communities focusing on the mountain aquifer and the coastal aquifer shared between Gaza and Israel So we're there in communities trying to build constituencies in those communities We work with different stakeholders in those communities the municipalities different people in the communities from farmers in the ruler areas all the way to private sector But also educators We empower them with the necessary information that they need to put pressure on their decision-makers and then to make effect on the centralized authorities in our different capitals in three countries and Making that linkage between the people on ground and the policy makers is important and enabled us to achieve lots of On-ground implementation of the needed projects Thank you, and I know we're gonna talk more about some of these concrete projects a little later in the conversation if I can Turn to you and add or I know you all when you talk about your work You often discuss this concept of healthy interdependencies I wonder if you could say a little bit more about that what you mean by that what that looks like and why this particular area the Israeli Jordanian Palestinian is sort of ripe and fertile for that kind of cooperation to your minds Indeed when we discuss healthy interdependencies It means that we recognize clearly the interconnectedness of our environment and natural resources We look at ourselves as One set as people who are in the same boat Sharing natural resources sharing environmental concerns Which and these natural resources, especially water are very limited in our region considering that it's one of the most arid regions in in the world Political borders in that context do not in get exist Political borders will not recognize Climate change and will not recognize pollution and I've come across this concept when I was very even Little when I was a teenager During the Oslo Accords when I was put to understand The concept of environment knows no boundaries and this was exactly the type of work that we are still doing today as eco peace with our youth To understand that we are dependent on each other to survive and To protect our shared environmental heritage and this happens on several layers of interaction and as Yana mentioned it starts with interdependencies emphasizing interdependencies at the educational level and communication with our constituencies and raising their awareness But it also comes into different other practices that we bring on board through our green-blue deal in terms of Bringing out of the box ideas for example We are working on one specific aspect of our green-blue deal for the Middle East, which is exchanging water and renewable energy Between Palestine and Israel and Jordan and the concept is based on creating healthy interdependencies That would create stability and water and energy security for all in light of climate change and this creates Somehow an understanding that we all need to provide Something and in return everyone has a shared responsibility To implement projects on ground that would make sure that We have appropriate climate adaptation and mitigation measures and our concept of exchanging water and energy where Jordan has the vast majorities of land to produce solar energy that is that is enough to produce 20 percent of almost the demand of the three countries for energy supply and Exchange on the Palestinian and Israeli side. We have the Mediterranean Sea Which can be utilized for desalination and here? We can exchange those two resources where they are much needed for Palestinians and Israelis and Jordanians sorry to have the equitable amounts of water that are needed for For Israel is to increase its energy supply from clean sources and to meet their Paris agreement Yeah targets and here we create win-win situations, which are very much necessary to Accommodate ourselves to what comes next in terms of climate impact and as I mentioned We are all in the same boat and I always use the metaphor of the Titanic it doesn't matter who is advanced in technology and adaptation measures and whose System is so fragile because at the same time when we are into so interconnected geographically and environmentally and resource wise The Titanic will think anyways if the iceberg hits whether you're on the Luxury first class or in the bottom of the ship Everyone will think if we don't cooperate to you know Drift together in the lifeboats Steer away from the iceberg from the iceberg so Here's our concept that requires again a lot of education on interdependency on ground, but as well on the On the level of bringing out their concepts that would push Really our leadership to understand that we need to work together Thank you. I mean as and as you've noted This concept that these challenges and these crises don't respect borders or politics Of course, I'm quite sure and as we know those borders and politics do tend to get in the way and you mentioned you referenced When you were younger and and and the Oslo Accords and I wanted to circle back to some of What you've mentioned later in the conversation, but pick up on the Oslo Accords and turn to you Gidon because we are I think September marks the 30th anniversary since the signing of those accords and You know which held out the promise And potential of an unrealized to this day two-state solution But also were notable among other things for codifying water as a as a sort of core issue of the conflict to also be resolved And I I think that you know recognizing the importance of water in the context of peace was important But I know you've discussed before that the concept also that that also held water hostage to the Resolution of the conflict has anything changed. I know there are factors you often point to about how that paradigm of zero sum Around water has changed What are the factors that now make a different way of thinking about this possible? So also, let me thank thank you Lucy and the whole team of US AP for this invitation When the Oslo Accords were negotiated in 93 94 94 95 Water was only natural water water was very much a scarce and finite resource There was the shared groundwater of the coastal aquifer between Israel and Gaza the shared groundwater between Israel and the West Bank The Jordan River system and the Dead Sea shared with Israel Palestine and Jordan And therefore solving water issues particularly between Israelis and Palestinians Was difficult because it was a zero-sum game. It was very clear more water must be transferred to the Palestinian side as part of an agreement, but the transfer of that water when there's a limited sort of tub Produces winners and losers and therefore water was put aside was recognized as critically important but difficult to solve and Therefore together with other difficult issues Jerusalem refugees and so forth The idea was that within five years a deal would be struck and from our conversations with the negotiators at the time Perhaps the idea was that Israel would be so-called generous on water and Palestine would be so-called generous on refugees and A deal would be struck in that way Well, the rationale as to why water was difficult to solve 30 years later doesn't exist anymore And that's largely due to Israeli leadership in the water sector both in desalination where today 70% of the water that Israelis drink is no longer coming from natural water sources 70% is coming from desalination and it's projected it will increase to over 90% In the short term and in addition to that Israel's the world leader in treating sewage and then reusing it for agriculture and That's more water today being produced by Recognizing that sewage is a resource Then the amount then the quantity of water then that Israel ever had is extracted from the Sea of Galilee So the water pie has tremendously increased Yet on the ground when it comes to the fair share of of water between Israeli Palestinian Israelis and Palestinians there's been no movement and one of our concerns is that Policy makers in our own region, but also internationally Seem to be fixated on the principle of we must Agree we must solve all five final status issues together or we don't move forward on anything Of course, all of us would have loved to see movement on all five final status issues yesterday, but 30 years down the track And what we've identified at Echo piece is in fact, we're holding this Zero-sum game this all-or-nothing approach is in fact holding water issues hostage What does that mean? It means that there remains intermittent water supply Throughout the West Bank and Gaza and it doesn't need to be we can today much duties or as leadership on the one hand on Expanding the water pie Palestinians we can negotiate and Palestinians can get a fairer share of the natural water With no reduction in water available to Israelis because we can increase desalination we and we are Continuing to do that and to treat sewage so that we no longer have a Lose win situation we can advance on a win-win situation and today more than ever that's critical Because that's the that's a way To improve the situation on the ground For every Palestinian and equally for every Israeli because there are sanitation issues between Israeli Israelis and Palestinians that are not being dealt with properly and both Palestinians and Israelis suffer from raw sewage Flowing down almost every shared stream. So there's another deal a much more pertinent deal certainly with the climate crisis because when we Put the put ourselves in the context that the climate crisis is further declining The amount of natural water that we have that's what the Palestinians have access to that's in either actually in further decline So that we have the opportunity and that's the call of echo piece to move forward We sort of call it water first not because we want to Prevent all of the other critical issues for moving forward, but by moving water issues forward now We can build we can improve the reality on the ground more water in every Palestinian home Sewage being treated not only for Israelis, but also for Palestinians Build trust show that we can move forward Reach a an agreement on a critical final status issues highlight that we have a partner for peace So in other words, it has a dual purpose one is improving access to water Which is necessary, but you sit or so is having the potential to To grease the wheels or provide some momentum towards progress on other tracks perhaps given the trust deficit that exists between the leaders right now and Identifying the urgency because perhaps all of us perhaps many of the decision-makers we don't but the many of the decision-makers Don't see the urgency in moving forward on the peace process on the climate crisis We failed to move forward on these issues It's to the detriment of all three of us and as Nata's metaphor highlights. It's exactly why we're on the Titanic together failing to move forward on Water mitigation issues is a lose-lose now to all three peoples Yeah, and if I may just add Lucy, but it's also a national security issue. So water is a very important resource For each of our countries and it's seen by each of our countries as a national security issue What good is a neighbor that is not secure in its water resources? So that's more the reason that we really need to be working on solving especially water issues No, and it's important point as I mentioned at the top It's interesting that this certainly climate environment challenges appeared in the US national security strategy that was released last week by administration, so this is a language we're increasingly Hearing being used around the issues if if I can you mentioned Gidon you were talked about And treated sewage and the challenges and again that the lose the lose lose that you see When these issues aren't addressed and the win-win possibilities I always find stories tend to be the most effective way to underscore what this looks like I'm reality and For me one of the most powerful stories that that really brought home to me the impact and potential of what you all do Was a it was a Reuters story or headline also that appeared in times of Israel back in June of this past year about The the sea and Gaza being swimmable in again for the first time in a while Could you achieve now if I could ask you to talk about what that story referred to the and and how that how that came About how you identified that challenge and on what? leading towards the solution looked like And again, this really exemplifies our Interdependency and interconnectedness in terms of our resources the Gaza story is really compelling and it shows that Our way of doing things can really be effective To change course of of lives and to change course of how things need to be done and understood For several years and because of the 15 16 years of locate on Gaza And and borders and there's this dual use material that The Israeli military has identified as dangerous material to enter Gaza as not to be used for Constructing tunnels or utilized for making Non-conventional weapons, etc This was an also an excuse to Not enter several kinds of material that are necessary for building wastewater treatment plants and water facilities in Gaza Strip and One of the major Projects that has been impeded for a long time for nearly 12 13 years was a World Bank project in the north of Gaza Which is a major wastewater treatment plant to serve several communities This is nearly around the border and sewage was literally for many years going Put into the Mediterranean Sea untreated and the current stake at north polluting the beaches in Israel and Causing the closure of major desalination plants and one of them is the Ashkelon desalination plant in Israel Which literally provides around 70 percent of Ashkelon 15 after Ashkelon 15 percent of the of the water Of drinking water to to Israeli people in the area so And we came this information to we came to this information all by coincidence because we were looking for polio In the sample we were taking beat beaches samples from the beaches in Israel to detect polio and by coincidence the same laboratory that we were testing in told us that they have been testing for Fecal coliform and other pollutants in the Mediterranean for Ashkelon and it has been closed several times and Threatening the water security of of Israel By by stopping operation. So what does this tell us that at that point the? Israeli military Decision was similar to shooting themselves in the foot Because the conventional security meaning has nothing to do with what the environment has to deal with things and How environment understands its natural way of doing things? What we did was we've mobilized people on ground through the office of Tel Aviv around the communities of Gaza they've signed a letter Addressing the prime minister back then Netanyahu to take action that Whatever is called the iron doom any protective Conventional security measures Are not effective because it is turning back around into also affecting Israel's Water security and by by lots of also advocacy on On on the policymaking level we started seeing some relaxation to to to to enter material for water and sanitation construction in Gaza and since 2018 until today around three Major wastewater treatment plants in Gaza strip have been completed and constructed So this is the way forward it takes a lot of work on several layers to build the understanding that whatever goes around comes around and That we need to really think of the repercussions of our decisions if we don't work together and Facilitate things that would impact our lives collectively. I Would add that Military security is a legitimate concern But military security is not the only security and that's what ecopiece was really able to successfully communicate first and foremost the Israeli residents around Gaza and and of course to the decision-makers that Water security and environment security and health security They're also legitimate concerns and decision-makers have to balance We can't keep our head in the sand There's there's broader human security and when we understand human security then we understand we're in the same boat And that's really what led To those policy changes and perhaps the first good news to come out of Gaza in a decade Around water That's the power of water because the beach became Yeah, and and to add to this point and to what Yana mentioned that water is actually a national security matter is That we if it's not something that we say it's something that has Internationally been recognized it has been put into literature by several international security agencies and military agencies by NATO by CIA the experience of the refugees of Syria flooding into Europe. This is one major issue that has come out of of of water scarcity and and Not managing well with climate change issues. So It now is globally recognized this interconnectedness between security and water security and most of the non-secure violence Breakouts in the world Are also recognized as water scarce areas in the world and this is typically the men a region So that's why we need to start also recognizing this issue and quoting here also our water minister at one of the Donors meetings in Brussels He mentioned that if we don't solve water problems in Gaza today for two million people Europe will start seeing Floodings of refugees from Gaza to Cyprus and Europe very soon and The the the history will repeat itself such as the the stories of Syria refugees, etc. Yeah Can you and you nada and Yana in particular? You've you've talked about the way Eco-peace works top-down and this was an example as well very much engaging policy makers around this But also bottom-up Could you say in relation to whether it's this example or others a little bit about what that bottom-up component looks like? There's obviously policy change that has to happen But presumably around these issues as well. There's there's an education component a public education component about use of water and and and Effectively dealing with your natural environment. What does that work look like either in this particular example or more broadly? I can Yana, I don't know if I can ask you to start but there's any way in definitely so education is very important and working as with the local communities and educating them about the challenges the the water realities Is important But it's more effective the way we do it at Eco-peace When we're working with the local communities and the people in the local communities We have them become part of identifying those challenges so we literally For example when we're doing a Project on the Jordanian side of the Jordan Valley. We take people to the sites To see with their own eyes what the challenges are So that they could become part of identifying the challenges but then we work heavily with them on educating them and Having them part of doing the research So that they are part of identifying the solution as well only then they're able to really discuss and Present the problem and the solutions To the decision-maker and for a concrete example when we first started working on the Jordanian side With the Jordanian, you know different stakeholders the farmers the educators the municipalities the mayors in the municipalities and we were talking about the Jordan River and The pollution in the Jordan River Everyone was just telling us why are you talking to us about this we Jordanians don't have a say Or we're not taking any of the water from the Jordan River and we're not polluting the river But by taking them on site visits to see the different realities in the communities when it comes to treatment and Of the sewage in the communities they were able to see with their own eyes that it's not only Israel to blame But it's us that are contributing to the pollution of the rivers of the river Because we do not have sanitation solution people in the Jordan Valley on the Jordanian side are dependent on Suspits and they're poor people in the communities there. So they're either unable to To pump the sewage Suspits or they're old and cracked so they seep into the ground water also polluting our ground water But they were able to see that with their own eyes which made all the difference and for them to understand and go to their mayors and Say these are the things that we demand from you We need you to go to our central government to the responsible authorities to to really create Solutions for the same for sanitation in the Jordan Valley It's very it's a very powerful example of watching how that sort of top down and bottom up Meet meet each other and connect with each other and I think that staying on the Jordan The Jordan River Valley. I know that's an area that you've worked on for a long time and with mayors as you've just mentioned as part of that Your goodwater neighbors project, but one of the things I've always found Compelling you you've pointed out Often that the Jordan River Valley it's important geographically environmentally It's also an important place in terms of shared cultural and religious significance for many people How do you why is it that you talk about that? What does that look like in terms of integrating that concept into your work? So the Jordan River is a holy river to the three Abrahamic traditions To Christians to Muslims and to Jews Yet we the Abrahamic people Those of you that haven't seen the Jordan south of the Sea of Galilee You'd be shocked as to what you would see today 95% of the freshwater has been diverted What's left is mostly Sewerage mostly untreated agriculture runoff saline water a very unholy Combination that actually threatens people's health if they're baptized in the river today So that is unacceptable and an echo piece has been focusing for most of our near three decades of work to Rehabilitate the river and by as as Yana said by bringing Local communities local residents. Why do we have to bring local residents down to the river? Because the river is the border. There are checkpoints. There are Fences its mind people generally do not come to the border They're fearful of the border and therefore the demise of the river is out of sight out of mind So our programming in the good water neighbors Brings the communities on the Israeli side on the Jordan side on the Palestinian side to look at that demise of the river to Understand as Yana said that we all have a responsibility here not the same responsibility But we all have something we can continue blaming and only blaming or we can start to take some responsibility for The actions that were responsible for and a key aspect of that is the faith-based communities and we were able to bring Priests and imams and rabbis From our own communities and then later from the broader international community To speak out to it first of all to see the demise and it's mind-boggling We invite you all to come down with us To the Jordan Valley And then you know the the faith-based leadership have actually signed on to a covenant together Calling for the rehabilitation of the river and a critical aspect is the mares My favorite photo is the mares of the Jordan River Palestinian Jordanian and Israeli. It's not a pretty sight. There are some big bellies And they're in their trunks and they're Jumping in to a clean stretch of the Jordan River together. They're making a splash now They're doing that not because they're best friends They're not and a mossity and conflict continues. I think this is the importance of what? Environmental peace building we're here at USIP This is not a development issue And and if you think that conflict resolution is all is only about putting building sanitation facilities or putting pipes Then you're missing the point it's about understanding That we're in the same boat that we can't clean up the river unless we all It's a shared river for goodness sake if we don't all get the sewage out Then we've actually done nothing and perhaps you know this Just several months ago To show how this type of work faith-based work community work youth work mares the government of Israel this this this present government passed a cabinet decision that I think is truly historic For it's still only the first stretch the first 11 kilometers of the river between the Sea of Galilee to the Yarmouk Which is the border with Jordan and there is now a cabinet decision to rehabilitate that stretch Remove all of the sewage in fact our work has already brought in about a hundred million dollars of Investments not our money. It's the money of the US government of European governments But those investments wouldn't have happened without the peace building But but now with this new cabinet decision 50 million cubic meters of water Will start to flow down the Jordan River, but here's the catch We don't rehabilitate the river without working all together So the government of Israel will put the water back in a pipe 11 kilometers further down Until we can really move forward on regional cooperation for the whole length of the river and The cabinet decision calls for a regional cooperation to rehabilitate the river So we have an opportunity today all of us have an opportunity today because this is not our river This is all of our rivers. This is the most important river in our in our mind And I think in most people's mind This is a river that belongs to us all and by Rehabilitating the river we make such a powerful statement So we ask you to join us in that effort to to expand that cooperation for the full length of The Jordan River all the way down to the Dead Sea So and you mentioned a couple of times that answer Regional cooperation the need for that around that and so I'd like to if we can zoom out on that And we have a couple of questions as well on that issue from our online audience Specifically and a couple of pieces you've touched on already Yano and now the nada you referenced before the the water energy exchange agreement November 2021 I believe Between Israel and Jordan Facilitated by and funded by the UAE and of course that wouldn't have come about without the advent of the Abraham Accords Now I know that you've been working for years on this notion. You've mentioned it get on of water energy exchanges Ideally ultimately between Israel Jordan and Palestine this agreement so far is Israel Jordan Emirati involvement agreement Can you maybe Yana? I'll ask you to start on that water What are some options for the for the future on that agreement where do you see the future of that potential involvement? Maybe of the Palestinians in that agreement down the line and what more potential can be unlocked from this geopolitical development of the Abraham Accords and the negative form in this space Well, thank you Lucy very important question I mean definitely this letter of intent that was signed between the Jordanians and Israelis facilitated by Emirates and the US involvement as well is an important first step but it wasn't only triggered by Or enabled by the signing of the Abraham Accords. It was enabled because of the urgency of climate change and That's how we were able to move it forward as well by putting together our Green blue deal report and touching upon the four different components one of them is the green blue deal I mean, sorry the water energy nexus which we produced a pre feasibility study for back in 2015 But this is an important first step like I said Our vision as an organization is to that all three countries cooperate on this and that it would be a learning point for other countries in the region to join on cooperation on To be climate change resilience basically Or what we're focusing on at this time is also to Show that this is an opening for the Palestinians as well So something that we're trying to move forward is more solar energy in areas C for Palestinians to be wheeled to up to Gaza to operate the existing treatment plants wastewater treatment plants and the desalination plants that Nada was talking about so this is something that Hopefully is is moving forward and will be able to with the support of the international community to push forward for But the way we work as an organization is that we look at Pragmatic solutions we look at what opportunities are there So some of the recent concept notes that we're trying to push forward is that opportunity to to include a mandate for the Mediterranean gas forum that they would also focus on climate change and renewable energy Another concept building on What we see of signing of a letter of intent between the Israelis and Jordanians For exchange of renewable energy for water is for Jordan to become a hub for producing solar cells To enable Jordan to be able to or manufacturing of solar cells to be able to produce all the needed renewable energy in our region, but also looking at the Ukraine Russia war and the need for gas and and and all the challenges that created and Thinking of climate change and the opportunities we have in our region We're also looking at moving forward that our region could be a hub for producing renewable energy and green hydrogen as well to be Shared and between our region first of all, but then also exported to Europe Very interesting and and the the if you could just say why is Jordan? Why is Jordan such a prime candidate? For playing this role when it comes to solar energy if we could just talk about what what makes that the case geographically speaking Well, first of all as Jordan when we did our pre feasibility study It was proven by the research that we did that Jordan Has vast areas of desert that are ecologically not significant And that can be produced that can be used to produce all this renewable energy but then as Jordanian government, it's within our energy strategy to be Increasing the mix of renewables as well in our production and to also become a hub Export renewable energy to the nearby countries So all those elements are enabling elements In addition to that we have a God gift of being you know, I think the best country in the area In terms of sun radiation So we're able to to produce a lot of Solar energy I have another question from one of our viewers online Bruce online is asking if one of you can speak to the sustainability of desalination and energy use any Secondary impacts or byproducts of that. So I don't know who would like to take that if I'd be very happy to take that so Desalination should always be the last choice not the first choice We need to make sure that we manage the natural water resources that we have as best and Efficiently as we can that means that the price of water needs to be right, you know Desert area where we live water should be meted water should not be free Water should reflect its scarcity and that's sadly not not always the case We should be treating our wastewater And then we're using that and and when we get the price right For water then a whole lot of technologies can be employed to even further increase efficiency But what's happened to our part of the world is that we're doing most of that Certainly, Israel is he's a world leader when it comes to water efficiency today. That's the world leader And there's now no other choice So desalination should never be seen as something just to jump into no it's only when you've achieved everything else and you still don't have enough water resources then desalination is An effective option and that's what's happened in Israel Yet nevertheless the energy Needed for a desalination is intensive and that's why the water energy exchange The purchase of renewables from Jordan is so attractive Because it enables desalination to move forward without that Footprint without that print of of increased emissions because they'll be powered by Renewable sources one of the issues that that still remain is the brine It's those salts that are removed from the desalination process that are dumped into the Mediterranean and why is that of concern? Because it's not just Israel and Palestine and Egypt And Lebanon it's the whole eastern Mediterranean that's run out of water and everyone is planning to build Very large desalination plants and at the moment everyone's going to dump that brine back into the Mediterranean if we don't invest in new technologies of how to Utilize that brine rather than dumping that brine into the Mediterranean will turn the eastern Mediterranean into a dead sea Now there is the exciting news is that there is Tech there there is technology being developed There's technology to utilize the brine as an alternative to cement. There's technology potentially To use the brine as a carbon capture Which further then advances as regards to climate change. There's true cutting-edge technology It requires further investment, but it does speak to the the potential the continued potential of Desalination to move forward if we get the regulations in in in place And if the necessary funds for further research are put into place to diminish the negative Implications we can't ignore those implications and same question as as be as before that Yana was speaking to do you see any opportunities that have new opportunities in the space given the development of the Abraham Accords and a greater move towards regional Cooperation is there other new opportunities to your minds that have arisen here or barriers for the barriers to that play that role Lucy, can I just add to what get almost saying about desalination? So it's important to give the example of Jordan With the water stress that we're facing in the country We have no other alternative but to desalinate and this is what we're doing is an organization Working with our local authorities on the Jordanian side to just make sure that the desalination is sustainable in that sense because we can't afford as a country anymore to be looking at only one option of Only to purchase the additional quantities from Israel But what we'll be purchasing from Israel would be partly desalinated water on the Mediterranean But also we'll also need to implement on the Jordanian side our national water carrier Which means desalination as well But what we're always stressing on to make it sustainable as Gidon was saying that we work with the authorities To make sure that we go into the proper Reformed that our water sector needs and we take all the different measures and then we look at what our Demand in terms of water it would be and they would come from desalination We would and to build on on the question we need to broaden The cooperation there's no there's no quest our survival as a region is Dependent on broadening the cooperation the green-blue deal that equips launched from its very Initial thinking was not only looking at Jordan Palestine and Israel. We understood that the Middle East as a whole The potential of the Abraham Accords is extremely significant But if it doesn't include the Palestinians, then we're again, we're missing the boat all partners need to move forward together Otherwise we don't move forward that that it continues to be a challenge that prevents progress on these critical issues and and and the potential of the win-win is Just so dramatic for us We don't need to be the example to the rest of the world of tragedy and suffering and A failure to be sustainable we can be the example of shared prosperity of of climate resilience we can be the exporter of Green technologies of solar and wind power to indeed as as Yana said in a recent study to power a third of the energy needs of Europe Through renewable sources, but that's only when we work together and the call for echo piece is that we is that the Decision-makers that are moving forward this regional effort We can't leave anyone behind We have to be working with all three countries and just to add that and to steer the conversation a little bit Beyond environment and a bit more political There needs to be also an understanding that real peace and stability in the Middle East for that to be achieved Peace With between Palestinians and Israelis should be prioritized Israel will never be secure and a secure state if There is no advancement on a political solution between the Palestinians and Israelis and no matter how many Arab countries signed peace agreements and Advance on cooperation agreements with the Israelis It would not mean anything on the ground for every and each Israeli citizen in terms of security if peace between Palestinians and Israelis is Achieved and therefore what needs to really be advanced is to go back and discuss How can we really advance the two-state solution? and put it back as the one and only solution that is Suitable for everyone by the Palestinians or Israelis on board We can't really think of other alternatives which are more difficult and the more the time is passing the more there is time for settlements expansion and creating this Swiss cheese as George Bush has once described in the in the West Bank of Disconnected communities the more the two-state solution achievement will be difficult so our work is to Utilize and to somehow also maintain this notion that there is a real partner for peace to work on Practical issues that did I have mentioned but also to take this forward on a longer-term vision To create peace between Israelis and Palestinians to achieve security for all. Yeah, thank you Nader and thank you for bringing us to to that That topping the conversation because the next set of questions I have Directed to you and we have a couple of questions online about this as well is if you could speak to you know We've talked about the opportunities But the challenges that you've just been to speak to and the challenges of doing this work the Palestinian case under occupation and the challenges to moving some of these issues forward and Perhaps a related Lee if another and if you want to talk as well We have a question from Josie online about whether it's possible to achieve water security and water sovereignty for Palestinians without Over-reliance on Israeli infrastructure is a place for a localized approach for Palestinian water and agricultural practices so Nader or Gidon perhaps if you wanted to speak to some of those and then we're going to allow our In-person audience as well to ask some questions again with the current nature of of How things are being done on ground and because of how we are stuck with the Oslo arrangements Any any attempt to improve local water sovereignty and access to water for Palestinians and is very much Bound and connected to what is called the joint water committee at which often there is it's very challenging to get the approval from the Israeli side to dig new wells or develop new wells and again This is much connected to be not us not being able to reach a final agreement on the allocation of water resources But adding to that complexity is that also around? 64% of the West Bank if we're talking about the West Bank alone is recognized as area C Which is an area that is fully controlled in terms of civil works and military and security affairs by the Israeli military or civil administration And often any water infrastructure projects any pipes storage tanks wastewater treatment plants are Not allowed to be developed in these 64% of the area without the approval from the Israeli civil administration This is a huge bottleneck for the water sector in Palestine to move forward on developments What really then needs to be done and recognized and through our work with equities Is during this meantime where we're not able to reach a final agreement where we have this status quo of the occupation and military control we need to find mechanisms to also hold Responsibility and for Israel to also hold responsibility to take on Water development as a basic necessity for the people of Palestine on ground not from their from a perspective of goodwill, but also from a perspective if of water security in Palestine is Also a national security issue that is of the interest of Israel And again this turns us back into the issue of we are all in the same boat So we're gonna lose lose The present situation is that there's intermittent water supply you go to a city like Yata In the West Bank south of Hebron Has water supplied by the municipality in the summertime once every two months Imagine living with municipal water supply at a such an intermittent fashion That it's due to the conflict. It's not do they buy water from Water tanks water tanks, and it's not sustainable. It's very highly priced. So for a family of Seven six people they put nearly their entire household income just on water Which is around four hundred dollars a month This is the other and on the other the other side of the coin It's about 60 million cubic meters of sewage coming mostly from Palestinian sources that are untreated and Pollute that shared groundwater that Israel takes the lion's share of until today So we're in a lose lose situation what eco pieces proposing we can turn that into a win-win not only from an infrastructure perspective but from a peace perspective because by Enabling Palestinians not to buy more water from Israel, but to directly access Groundwater Palestinians then have a clear interest to treat sewage when they have a clear interest to treat sewage then Israel Israelis to Win and and that's the name of the game. It's it's identifying those win-win solutions that improve the lives of Palestinians and Israelis and meet the urgency because It's not as if the that the situation is status quo the situation is that the climate crisis Is at our door the rest of the world is terrified of A one-and-a-half degree increase in temperatures of a further reductions in rainfall We've already experienced close to a two-degree increase in temperature. We've had 15 years of drought in the last 20 years So time is not on our side and our appeal to decision-makers our own but also internationally is that We need to move forward and if there's one thing that can bring Improvement on the ground that that can build trust and that can highlight that we have a partner on Each side it's moving forward on water Thank you. Get on. I think that's a good segue point to also turn to our audience for questions We have mic runners or we have Caroline over here has the microphone Ambassador Yusuf Senior fellow here at USIP. Well, thank you very much for a very interesting and informative discussion two questions the first one is in relation to separating water in the negotiations of final status issues and Whether it would be possible in your view to persuade the current administration in the US In light of the success that have been witnessed in the maritime negotiations between Israel and Lebanon To separate win-win situations from the bigger part of the conflict So do you think that it is possible to achieve this objective in relation to water as a confidence-building measure between the Israelis and the Palestinians The second question is in relation to cop The region has become more interested in cop We have had one in the last few years in Morocco this year in Egypt the following year in the United Arab Emirates and you mentioned The Abraham Accord several times Do you think that this debate can be introduced on the international stage through cop that would take place in the United Arab Emirates? Thank you and what do you want to I can gather a couple of questions and come back or did you Let's take that there were a couple of questions there, so we'll take those two questions to start So I think the example of of Israel and Lebanon What an achievement to Amos to the State Department to this administration a Precident decision that opens the door and you're absolutely right This is the type so Israel and Lebanon didn't sign a peace treaty that they understood the time was against them and that if they didn't move forward Not only could Lebanon fall but the implications were clearly also on Israel and the broader region So they both governments took under us leadership under French leadership here Took that brave step and moved forward and broke the paradigm because the paradigm for Lebanon too Was either there's a peace treaty or there's nothing so why can't we apply That same prince principal the same urgency is there and the climate crisis brings that urgency So bringing it to cop absolutely We need these issues to come to the Sharon cop in just two weeks But even more so because we have more time to prepare for the cop in the UAE the conference of the priorities on climate to utilize The climate issue Not just as a threat multiplier not something that just brings fear to people's hearts But that can bring hope to people's Daily lives and that's what moving forward on water reflects If I may just add to that also Lucy I think we we do have that opportunity now to influence policy here in the US Not only to negotiate Water as a low hanging fruit between the Israelis and Palestinians and build that much needed trust between them but also to take smaller steps like our work on the Jordan River and Calling on our three governments to come together on signing a memorandum of understanding To prioritize projects that can move forward today That are much needed especially on the Jordanian and Palestinian side like sanitation like Projects related to water infrastructure also on the Jordanian Palestinian side for that Trust fund would be a World Bank managed trust fund That would enable you know donors to contribute and have these projects Implemented and like I said, they're low-hanging fruits and can move forward tomorrow because they don't need to be They don't need to agree on the harder political issues of For instance water rights So I think we should be working towards that and and also to add I think the mechanisms that we utilize to enable this to happen is Is is also very effective because at the moment also with technology and advancement of modeling We have the opportunity to argue with scientific data and modeling That negotiating of allocating water resources is possible between Palestinians and Israelis And this is exactly now that an exercise that we are conducting with Palestinians and Israeli and international hydrologists to basically optimize water resources with areas of water demand and to provide this data in the form of technical papers, but also policy papers to utilize them with Our own governments, but also with international community to facilitate this discussion. Thank you Thank you, Nader and all of you. We had another question down here Hello, I'm Dorian from Transfacianica LSE USA In a way, I'm not I do not agree with the trend with the Titanic case I think nowadays we have to save it. Okay, we don't let it die Going back I'll tell you about a Project that died 20 years ago. It was Importing water from Turkey to Israel and it died because they didn't have the Technology at the time. My question is simple Do you know about the new technologies of importing long-distance water to Israel from Turkey or from other sources? That's one and how it can be implemented if you know about it. Thank you. Thank you so so we are familiar with the different proposals of of importing water from an example Turkey or other places and The reason why that that didn't take place is because the desalination technology Advanced at such speed that the cost of desalination became cheaper than This is not my research. It's the researcher of the Israeli Water Authority and that the cost of desalinating So the cost of desalination used to be two dollars a cubic meter and The the most modern sewer stream plant in Israel Sarek to it's down a 40 cents a cubic meter And the the even the the new desalination plans being proposed will probably be even Cheaper and so The cost is is a is a is a is a real issue and there's issues that everyone wants to be producing You know Their water locally or as locally as possible. So and you know, this is nothing to do with equities The government of Israel and the water authority in Israel decided not to move forward on importing water from Turkey and Invested in the desalination and what we're seeing particularly in the water energy Exchange is how this can be a game-changer and I think that's the key because it's not an issue of development It's not an issue of building, you know a laying pipes and and and and moving water necessarily It's about creating healthy interdependencies where each side our conflict is between Israelis Palestinians Jordanians work for the very first time creating a mechanism Where every side has something to buy and every side has something to sell That's if that sounds familiar It should remind you of the coal and steel agreement of Europe after World War two. That's how you that's how the US Help build the most lasting period of peace in the European continent Sort of known it was about creating that healthy interdependency between coal and steel Well, what we're doing through the green-blue deal is about creating that healthy interdependency by harnessing the Sun and harnessing the sea in a way that each one of us have Something of real value to contribute. So let's build on that. Let's include the broader region including Turkey In the in in that effort, but it's about creating healthy interdependencies Good on I'm going to I'm going to stay with you a second because you almost mind read the next question, which is another Question from one of our online audience And one that I've had and we love to ask at US AP the sort of how we can how come we can look at the comparative context here And how do you compare and contrast the Middle East context with other regions in the world and where this offers? Possibilities you just spoke to Europe as an example in the other direction But where do you see possibilities? For expanding this kind of work be on the Middle East context and do you all do you ever find yourself contacted by other either? parallel organizations or others in Africa elsewhere in Asia who are wanting to we'll see that there's something to learn from this example Certainly we've we've worked for several years with Bosnia and Herzegovina where we have trained NGOs On Local NGOs in that area to adopt our methodology Similarly, we have been working with NGOs around the lake Chad on on also Learning our methodology the top-down approach bottom-up approach and and we We certainly don't want to add more To do in our own region We are around 55 staff To 60 staff maximum in all three in the three offices across the board so with this little number of of People the level of effort is more than enough to do things on ground in our own countries But certainly we look into striking partnerships with Organizations and think tanks and NGOs and collaborating with with the US IP and being here for this week actually opens really good doors of Thinking outside the box on how to transfer this experience From our region and more broadly to other regions of the world So thank you again. I've I've failed to thank you like you done another in Indiana in the first Question, but now I have the opportunity to do so. We're we're thrilled that you're here with us And I think did we see Can with the other questions from the audience? Yes, please miss row here Hello, my name is Laila and you'd spoken a lot about potentially going into the West Bank and Gaza as well in order to bring about more solutions to help them gain access to water and For some you view it I'm wondering what the relationship might be with the final status issue of security and how You might navigate that with this idea of security in mind We're on one hand the Israelis they feel the need to have the soldiers there to feel safe All the Palestinians view it as occupation. How would that? Go into conversation with this whole issue of water Thank you, and maybe that I'll just tie that to another question from online, which we had a couple of people actually asking about Speaking to the support or challenges between work at the civil society level here and the governments and all these stakeholders that you engage How does this end up playing out in the ground? Amid all the sort of political and narrative difficulties that we all know exist in this conflict context Okay, I I can start with the with the first question. It is a very delicate Practice and we're not naive. We don't we don't deny that the occupation is and the current status is not Giving us full potential to advance our work and is not giving us the full momentum Because where whenever we in any type of advocacy that we're doing or any type of For example our work on the water energy nexus our work on the Jordan Valley every time we try to step one Step ahead the political situation drags us back ten steps back And it we we do some achievements on one side and then all of a sudden There's a breakout of violence. There's a breakout of a war on Gaza and everything Becomes really difficult to to discuss and to achieve and to convince our leadership to actually sit together and make a change on the ground and For us also as an organization. It's not as easy as it sounds because With all the great work that we're trying to do We are still not fully 100% also accepted by our own people We we we have this great recognition from international community because they understand that what we're doing is the way forward but because of the lack of political will because of antagonism because of the reality on the ground we are often condemned as being normalizers traitors I Was condemned ones attacked was by on social media that I am Implementing projects to steal water from Palestinians to sell them to to Israeli settlements in the Jordan Valley, which is completely Madness, I'm not doing that. I don't want to do that What we are doing here is really to create an opportunity for everyone to really live in peace and prosperity And and and with and fairly The occupation is a reality on the ground But we are a small organization with 50 staff. We cannot solve everything We are good at environmental peace building. We're good at pushing agendas of improving lives on ground and we're good at advocacy and speaking to you guys so whenever we found find this linkage of Doing things on ground pushing forward infrastructure and projects and cooperation with the policy level This is what we're good at and then this falls on you guys Think tanks like us IP like people who are well connected to Congress to State Department to the Senate's to push forward the agenda of the political advancement on ground through Similar work that we're doing today Can I just add to that Lucy? So another described the complications of our work If I was to describe how I Function on a daily basis with all the challenges around us from normalization To working with it all the different levels and the Necessity of working with the different levels are or else we will not be able to achieve Because of the realities on ground the lack of sustainable development, especially in Jordan and Israel Jordan and Palestine So we have to work with all the different levels, but with all these complications We're still able to achieve and move forward. Why? Because the messages we put together Always highlight the self-interest of the different groups But for us it brings the mutual gain for all of us from the work that we're trying to do So it will it's a long process It has it's a well-planned and strategized process that we go through But we're able to achieve with highlighting the self-interest and the mutual gain Thank you. I think we have time for one more question. Did we have we had one more question here from our audience? Hello, thank you My name is Susan I really thank you at Panis today for this wonderful and inside for a presentation I liked the idea that you invited people to go to Along the river to see What how they might be contributing to the pollution of the river However, I was wondering a view tried because we would talk about top down and Up down and down to the top. Yeah, I'm bottom up. Yes. I'm using my yes So I have you tried to invite the especially the leadership that our Leadership the policy makers to also go and experience this to experience the Palestinians living in you see Have no water for So many months and they are spending so much money to buy that water and how the policies that they have Put in place Affecting not only of course not only the Palestinians, but also the Israelis I'm not sure about the Jordanians because I haven't been there, but So yes, so I've you tried to invite them to that just give them a Tour a one week tour while they live in those places and see what that does Thank you. So so absolutely and but I think the strength of our work is that We don't have to invite The mayors that we're working with Who identify the self-interest and the lose lose of the current situation? They're Inviting the ministers much more powerful than we as a environmental Organization we're creating constituency where Middle-level decision-makers such as nada said all of the mayors of The Israeli side around Gaza Called on the Israeli Prime Minister to recognize that there's not just Military security here at stake and they support the military security issues, but they want it balanced with health security and water security and it's that engagement with all the different levels of decision-makers with constituency building that has brought the type of policy changes already into place They're not enough and and to the first question to the earlier question as well Were we can't solve everything. We're not trying to solve everything. That would be a mistake but we are trying to show That progress is possible and that those that think that we can just wait and Some miracle will happen or some opportunity will come out of nowhere Have their head in the sand Time is against us We need to move forward on what we can move forward now the example of Lebanon and Israel is such a powerful example that the u.s. Administration is responsible for and should be so and is so proud of Please repeat that effort Let's utilize the opportunity to move forward on what is solvable immediately So that we can improve the situation on the ground Build trust and that's the foundation the peace building Can I just add to that so a very important question? I mean We all spend a lot of our time in the field and taking different levels of decision-makers on tours to show them things on ground, but I can really say that eco peace is a good example of How things should be done in our region because we don't only engage as with decision-makers and People on ground and make the linkages between them and I'm talking here all levels of decision-makers. So even Knesset members Parliamentarians we take them on tours because we aim at policy change, but we also take it a step further by piloting projects Related to water energy food So on the Jordanian side and the Palestinian side We're always trying to fundraise for Implementing small projects to showcase sustainable development to showcase the nexus approach Not only to educate people on ground in the communities In in our country and nationwide regionally and internationally But also bring bring decision-makers to see with their own eyes that the solutions We are doing are the practical doable solutions that they need to move forward with And you might have the last word here if there's anything you you wanted to add on on on this point No, actually good on Indiana have covered it really well But I'd really like to thank you SIP for this opportunity and for the several set of meetings that You have also prepared for us during this this week And I would just say that anyone who's interested to learn more about our work Please follow our newsletter on our website Spread the word When you visit the region Knock our arm on our doors. We would love to take you around to show you things in reality to show you our work And Help us and support us in any way you find Suitable so and I know I'm speaking on behalf of our audience here and online to thank you for this Discussion today. I think that you know working at US IP devoted to conflict Internationally, we know right that in a region that climate can be a driver and exacerbator of existing conflict and you certainly have Plenty, I was gonna say fair share probably unfair share of conflict in in your region But but thank you also for for laying out those challenges today But also for showing us and through your work looking at how it can also be an opportunity perhaps for pushing through those challenges And finding ways to address the conflict through to use your language these these win-win scenarios So thank you and thank you to our audience for joining us