 Hello everybody, is everybody enjoying word camp? Well welcome to over-the-shoulder email marketing we've got David and we've got Tim and They're gonna do their introductions today. So here they are. Thank you Are these mics turned on can you guys hear me? We're live No, we are live. All right. Do I need to do this or can I talk normal people in the back? I need to talk up Okay, speak a little louder. All right, I Tend to talk kind of quiet People tell me I will try to remember if I start talking a little low then give me the sign to hey I can't hear you Well, first I want to say welcome to talk over-the-shoulder email marketing and this was kind of Obviously, we're passionate about email marketing and it's something that we want to discuss today But I kind of felt like you know, we've done it in our company For a few years really successfully and I kind of had the concept of you know You guys or anybody just kind of peeking over our shoulders seeing what we do our email marketing strategies What's worked for us? What's not worked for us and what we do and stuff and that's kind of where we'll We'll go with it and we'll dive in more as well. So Tim and I are up here and we're gonna give the talk and We're in a little bit of a unique situation last year and I gave a talk It was on co-operation. We're technically competitors who have since then become business partners since that talk and Most of the time people get up here they introduced themselves. We're gonna do it a little bit different today I'm gonna tell you about Tim and he'll tell you about me and We're just gonna do it that way. I've worked now with Tim for about three years. He has a company You know he started his WordPress journey in 2011 he founded Tim Shry for online solutions as client services He came into the Divi community Divi life in 2016 and that's where we met and he and I have been collaborating and working together in that community for quite a few years now since 2016 we started Divi chat which is a weekly podcast and then Tim and I Started WP the podcast. So just curious. Does anybody in here listen to WP the podcast or Divi chat? Yeah Awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, if you're not listening to it, you should be Well, and then this past year we launched WP gear's comm which is a Online learning platform where we actually started sharing some of our experiences with productizing and client services and stuff so He's an awesome guy. Tim is obviously a lot younger and better-looking than me But we just kind of hit it off, you know, the wonderful thing about WordPress is it's just an awesome community and You know, it's been awesome to work with him and stuff. So Tim now you can brag on me Yeah, absolutely. So my good friend David here is He is older, but he's also a lot wiser And so I've been able to learn a lot of awesome things from him the way that he does business If you know David, you know that he is The king of networking because he makes friends with everybody and so if you haven't met him yet You probably will by the end of today and so yeah, David started in WordPress in 2013 started Davcom digital which is a at the time was his client service business and then shortly after he in 2015 got into the Divi community and that's where we met as David mentioned David partnered with our good friend Corey Jenkins over here So shout out to Corey who's one of the organizers here really quick I just want to say shout out to the organizers and all the volunteers at WordCamp Phoenix because this is by far the best Organized WordCamp. I've ever been to so yeah applause So good job Corey All right, so back to David here So yeah, so David not only disaster and growth studios do client service business and wordpress They also have Divi space where they do Divi products for the Divi theme framework and then again WP the podcast and potent plugins I've learned a lot from David not just about marketing, but his business skills as well They've acquired two companies so potent plugins being one of them So yeah, it's been a really cool journey where we've been able to collaborate and learn from each other I learned a lot from him. Hopefully he's learned some stuff from me Maybe a little bit and so yeah, so that's our story And now we're going to talk a little bit more About email marketing and I kind of want to run through what we're going to go over today And we're going to talk about why you want to still consider Doing email marketing even in 2019 And why we feel like it's super important even in 2019 to really be a focus if not the main focus of your efforts We're going to talk about user acquisition list building how important it is some Tips and tricks you that we've done That have been very successful for us and that you maybe can translate over into your business to build an audience and stuff Because that's really important I'm gonna tell you about My story Tim's going to tell you about his we're going to talk about value versus sales Because there's a really good balance that you know We found over the years where you want to focus and stuff and we're going to obviously talk about Platforms and tools and then Q&A if you guys have any questions or you know You know about email marketing period feel free to ask them before we dive off into the next slide How many people in here are actually doing email marketing? Good awesome. I Guess the rest of the people want to do email marketing. So that's awesome. There we go So before we go any further. I want to talk about what our goal is today This is not everything you will ever need to know about email marketing. That's impossible to do in 40 minutes It's not even really an intro. It's more as David mentioned Learning what we've done and we're just sharing what's been helpful for us and kind of The strategies that we've used in our businesses So that's kind of the concept behind over the shoulder email marketing You're kind of looking over our shoulders of what we've been able to do And then another thing we want to accomplish today is prove to you that email marketing is not dead in 2019 People keep saying that I remember when social media Started to become mainstream everyone's like oh, it's you know, Facebook and Twitter They're gonna be the email killer email marketing is gonna be dead That didn't happen and then now people are saying chatbots and messenger marketing like that's the new thing Email email will be a thing in the past and that's still not true And so those are some of the things that we wanted to cover today This is a quote from Neil Patel if you're not familiar with Neil Patel He's a very good online marketer. He's got a great podcast that you can find marketing school It's kind of the model that Tim and I took WP the podcast from you know, it's a daily podcast very short Quick, you know user-friendly things that you can take right into your business That was kind of the concept. I'd like to say we came up with it ourselves But you know, they say that what is it flattery is you know Doing something someone else is doing is the best form of flattery and we got it from him So he's got a quote here if you think email is dead You're missing out on the real metrics the truth Email marketing is still going strong today and it's possibly the best possible strategy for your business and If I were gonna change anything on this quote, I would take out the word possible and Just say the best strategy for your business. I jokingly tell people all the time when we send out emails If I could send out an email every hour Without everybody running for the doors, you know and unsubscribing from my list. I would send an email out every hour It's that powerful it impacts our company our sales our revenue greatly So like I said, I would take the word possible out of it Yeah, so again why email marketing? first of all, it's a direct line of communication to your audience and so if you compare it to Facebook or Instagram you're you're trying to game the algorithm. You're trying to compete with all the other things on Social media your your followers friends cat videos and all the other viral videos that happen and so there's There's no guarantee that you when you post something on social media that your Followers are gonna see it only a small percentage are gonna see it unless you pay for more to see it And then additionally you own the list It's not dependent on any platform Facebook could ban you if they wanted to they could change things which they often do but with email marketing once you have that list you own it and You can take it and pivot and do it anything you want. I'm gonna say something that was not in our Presentation because it's a very applicable for today right before I came in here. I was checking my email and Tim brings up a very good point one of the chatbot creators I can't remember which one of them I'm on their email list by the way if you're not on all the marketers email list get on them watch what they're doing the successful email marketers and then Replicate, you know, it's not rocket science just kind of do what they're doing and stuff But I got the email that said, you know, the subject line was something like I've been banned and This person Larry Kim. Yeah, mobile monkey. Yeah has been banned from Facebook. So but Because I was on his email list. I've still got his email and he still can get in touch with me and stuff So him brings up a very very valid point and that the great thing about email marketing is you own that list It's not someone else's so even if you completely change your business model and pivot to something else Which we've done in our businesses started out as product creators of plugins themes and Transitioned to learning Teaching people, you know How to run a business how to build the WordPress business not how to build plugins and themes Something totally different and took that same audience and transitioned, you know Because we had that user base and that email list. It was very successful right out of the gates So it's very very powerful. Sorry, Tim. I didn't mean no No, and then the last thing here is it's it's very low cost where if you put all your eggs in one basket Facebook ads or Google ads for example You continuously have to spend a large amount of money to continuously get those same leads where email There's gonna be some cost to gain subscribers and all that but once you have that The cost to actually continuously email them out is very low Comparative compared to paid advertising By the way, I do want to say this I see pictures people taking pictures of the slides and stuff These will be downloadable. You can download these on where camp Phoenix's website. I believe if I'm not mistaken Yeah, once the camp is over or maybe even today. I don't know when they'll be ready But you can also download them on our website wpgears.com for free. We'll just got to sign up with your email to get them So yeah We got to practice what we preach, right? And then the last thing I wanted to touch on on why email marketing is the Automation and segmenting that you can do now again I've been bringing up Facebook ads and you can do segments with Facebook and normally target the people you want to target But with email marketing you can do automated sequences and you can do Sequences based off of of how people interacted with your content whether they opened an email or clicked or didn't click or whether they Purchase a certain product and so there's a lot that you can do that isn't possible with any other platform Yeah, and I would love to just dive off into that alone. There's so much that can be done there That's really kind of mind-blowing and where you can you know take your your users down You know a trail and depending on what they Want and what they don't like you can kind of drive them. It's it's it's really really powerful the segmentation and stuff so let's talk about user acquisition and list building and one of the most important things with this is You know obviously you need to have something that people are going to want to sign up for you know It seems like a no-brainer But that's just what you're going to need to do you need to you need to have something to get them to come and sign up So your visitors need to be enticed to join your list What are some of those things that you can use obviously freebies in the beginning? Before I even knew the power of email marketing. I've always known that You know capturing the user was really really important So I've done that since day one when our company started I Didn't you know oh wait I need to start collecting user data so that I could market to them I just intuitively knew because that's how my brain works to start gathering Users and the way I did that was letting them sign up, you know use their email and I would give them free downloads so like I said we're in the product we build plugins themes and You know we put out probably 10 times the amount of free stuff if not more than we do the paid stuff and You know I hear people are scared to do that a lot of times they're scared to give away free stuff You know they don't realize how valuable that email is From that user because it's gonna pay a lot more down the road if they if they trust you and You're giving them value to whatever their needs are and then you're gonna be able to market to them later on down the line So some of the things that you can do is I don't know what your companies are or what it is But I guarantee you there's something out there that is valuable that you can give away for free a resource You know to collect emails You can use coupons, you know, it's a great way. Hey sign up for our email list get 10% off of whatever it is That you're selling today content upgrades are huge. It's awesome. So we do a lot of Content marketing we write a lot of blog posts, which in and of itself takes a lot of time If you're paying someone else to do it it costs a lot of money, but the value of it is insanely beneficial not only on the search engine side because You know the search engines aren't establishing you as an authority But you also have the opportunity to do Content upgrades so Tim I want you to tell your example of content upgrade what you do and stuff because he does a really good job Yeah, we'll share more in detail but essentially content upgrades is you're teaching something for free in a blog post and then the content upgrade takes it a step further so Maybe you have a blog post that that teaches you how to do custom CSS And then you could have a content upgrade that gives you an e-book that takes it ten steps further and you know Talks about all the different ways that you can use CSS and all of that. And so I'll share some of my specific examples All right, that's right. I get it. That's a couple of slides down a little ahead of ourselves Thank you Tim because he does he has some really cool ways in his email marketing story where he'll share with you And I just think it's genius and stuff Updates new content, you know, obviously, you know sign up for our new newsletters be the first to know Those aren't as Good as some of the other options Email series e-books or anything like that. Just think of things to grab user acquisitions to get their email Yeah, and it's interesting because we'll talk to people that they'll say like yeah I've never had luck with email marketing and you know no one really signed up for my list But then you look at their website and they just have something at the bottom of their website that says like subscribe And it's not enticing the user you're not giving them any reason like why would they want to give up their Information so that you can send them emails when you haven't told them what they're gonna get in return So that's why these things are so important You're a guest in in your subscribers in box now. This is a concept. I took from Neil Patel I want to give credit where credit to do but it's it makes a lot of sense when you think of it that way In terms of email marketing as a whole where you're being essentially invited to the subscribers in box They're giving you permission to send them emails And so you have to act responsibly if you go over to someone else's house as a guest for dinner You're not gonna be obnoxious and throw their things on the floor and and stuff like that And so you kind of have to think of email marketing as a similar thing you have to respect their home their inbox and You know not spam them not send them emails every hour as much as we wish we could unless it's black Friday and Cyber Monday And then they're expecting lots of spam emails. Yeah, the house rules are out the window on black Friday You must deliver on expectations So You know if you say you're gonna do something do it if you're gonna give them don't don't give a you know Just throw something out there just to grab somebody's email and stuff because it's just not gonna work in the long term They're gonna unsubscribe from your list Give value to them if you say you're gonna give them something valuable give it to them Don't give them something that's just not gonna be a value to them there and hang around and then yet your list must be nurtured You know, I know a lot of people that will start collecting emails and never email them, you know And that's just kind of mind-blowing to me that you would collect emails and then never send them an email So you really need to be proactive and the truth is is that it's a lot of work, you know Maintaining nurturing these email lists and stuff It's a lot of work, but it but it will pay off for you long term and stuff So it's really important to nurture them. Yeah, and one thing that we want to point out We were obviously this talk is all about email marketing. So that's the focus But really email marketing you can't have Exclusively alone. It has to be part of the full circle marketing synergy. I realize there's a lot of buzzwords synergy But email having an email list and doing email marketing Needs to work together with David talked about content marketing and then the same thing with you know paid advertising Running paid ads towards a freebie to build your email list. So it's it's one piece of the puzzle But you can't have just email marketing. However, I've seen companies talk to people that they'll have the other things They'll have the social media presence. They'll have They'll do paid ads, but they won't have an email list And so it's like they're missing a really big crucial piece of the puzzle Big crucial piece of the puzzle So I guess here's my story Is that yeah, so we've actually got Yeah, probably right about there around 30,000 email subscribers today and You know what? Here's the simple truth when you have 30,000 people That are willing to listen to you. You don't have to have 30,000 people by your products Even if you get 10% you're doing great. Even if you get 1% of that the value is massive But if you have you know a good, you know email marketing plan and strategy and stuff It can really just you know blast your business into the stratosphere So like I said, you know three and a half years ago We started Aspen Grove studios and that's really where my email marketing journey started we created some products for the Divi theme and We wanted to give them away, you know, actually Divi elegant themes put out these amazing designs they came out and Change, you know took Divi to 2.4 and they came out with some incredible designs of Website examples and stuff layouts and stuff that they could do and We had a pretty popular Facebook group that was focused on that and we kept getting a lot of questions Over and over and over again. How did you do this? How did they do that? How did they achieve this so they had like the MacBook Pro? You know as you scroll down the page and then the page inside the MacBook Pro was scrolling and we've got like a Thousand people that were like, hey, how do I do that? And I just saw an opportunity Did it take a lot of work? Absolutely. It took a lot of work. I had to go reverse engineer figure out how they built them. I Built them took the time which time is money. I didn't build them our team built them I'd like to say I built them, but I didn't and And then we gave them away for free, you know We built a platform called the demo zone which was on a multi-site platform and We put these 15 free layouts that elegant themes had wrote a couple of custom plugins that allowed Many users to go into the same page at the same time. We locked it down to where they could not Change anything so that it wouldn't screw it up for the rest of everybody And they could go into the back end of the website and they could see exactly how those pages and and posts and everything was built on the back end instead of using inspect element and stuff and And all we did was require an email You know sign up with your email and you'll get access to the demo zone for free And I will tell you that the majority of that email list came from That idea which was to teach people and truthfully I was you know We answered these questions constantly anyways, and it was like oh well, you know, we've got a pain point Let's solve it and oh by the way while we're solving this pain point Man, they're really interested in these products. This might be something one day Maybe I'll just start catching their email and and put it into an email list and stuff So we started doing that by giving away the free products the demo zone Also David saying that they grew an email list by accident. Yeah Well, which is okay, you know, I'm not the expert know it all this is just all of my experiences I'm sharing with you what I've learned over the last few years and really realizing how powerful email marketing is and Things you can do to grab so once I realize that oh crap these emails are really valuable They're important people are buying our stuff if we send out an email every now and then you know We need to get more emails. Well, what can we do? You know, so we came up with another idea Which was a child theme generator, you know, which is nothing more than a form That fills out the fields for you know If you use any of the WordPress themes and you want to modify the core files You do any modifications you want to use a child theme so that when that theme is updated It doesn't get you know trashed You know and so we just created the form and it's the easiest thing in the world to create a child theme It's a text document with the same things. So we said well, let's just let's just create Let's do it for them, you know people are I hate to say this but people are lazy And it's not the only that they're lazy They if they have an option to Fill out a field and hit a submit button and they get the child theme emailed to them They're happy. So that's all we did. We filled out some forms It created the child theme and oh by the way, we need your email and we're gonna email that child theme to you You know and now a lot of our audience you got to know your audience, too They were a do-it-yourself or community so they weren't developers and stuff So this kind of stuff was very appealing to them. They wanted to learn and stuff So these are just some of the examples that that That we use that were really really really successful. We give away an immense amount of free things You know, I even tell my clients my business clients that we build websites for and stuff, you know What do I need to do to be successful online? You know well you need to You need to blog that's for sure because Google needs to know that you're an authority and whatever your niche is And you need to give away a lot of free stuff, you know the plumber, you know What do I what can I teach them how to fix their leaky faucet, you know? Wow, then they won't call me, you know Well, it doesn't matter if they call you or not They're gonna find somebody else on YouTube that is gonna do it for them But if you give them that content for free and you email it to them and you're helping them And you're being of value when that project comes up where they don't have an answer for it And they can't do it themselves. You're gonna be the first person in their mind. So Yeah, I mean email marketing is huge so We send out an average of two emails per week now. We've gone as high as seven. I've tested the gamut six ways to Sunday I've always been very Um Protective I have not We don't send out a whole lot of sales emails unless it's Black Friday and Cyber Monday And that's an exception and I do get emails from Our customers on our email lists are like Dude, I got it the first day. I don't need to see it every day after that 72 hours 48 hours 24 hours Well, you know, I just apologize and say it'll be over soon Yeah, what they don't realize is every email results in it massive increase in revenue So it's it's like, yeah, you might get annoyed, but there's a reason we do it if we wouldn't do it if it didn't work Yeah, if it didn't work. Absolutely You know, so the results that it's brought for us has been Like Tim said, you know the the the revenue for our company has skyrocketed Because of the email marketing and here's something that I want to make really really clear Even though the Black Friday Cyber Monday emails work great We shut it down after that and we go back to giving them value which for us is Things like out theme generators themes like free layouts Free themes free plug-ins free resources that they can use in their WordPress business or Use on their own site. We have some of the most amazing Icon packs for free that you could charge a lot of money for these things I mean, we've got a design team that I just I'm super proud of they're super awesome and Yeah, go check them out, you know as for gross studios calm and they're free You know, there's so you got to give a lot of value give a lot of value so that you're trusted So that when you do have things that you're selling Products they're gonna come and they're gonna buy from you because they trust you in stuff. So I'm almost scared to say this ever publicly But our company has five-star reviews on Facebook and other places And we don't control that and there's hundreds of them, you know, because of the value that we provide them We can't Edit those we can't delete those those are those are reviews that Customers have come and it's it's because of the free stuff and all the value that we bring to them and stuff Yeah, so I'll share a little bit about my email marketing story. So I Started I was basically a year behind David and so we operate in the same community selling products for div users that extend the functionality of Divi and so I Created products and realized okay. I need to start growing my audience and so I started doing tutorials in every single tutorial I wanted to to teach something and I wanted to give something and so the the goal of giving something was of course to to grow an email list and so essentially I Mentioned a little bit before about content upgrades and so one example was I had a blog post where I Taught people how to create a promo bar using the Divi theme and so I had all the code Here's how you do it Here's how you customize it and then I said but if you're lazy and you don't want to do all that You can just fill out this form here put, you know what you want the text to be, you know Black Friday sales starts today Put in what the link you want the button to be put in your color here and then put in your email And I'll send you the code and then you just pop that in your website And so, you know content upgrades like that and other freebies I was able to grow the list from zero to 17,000 in about two and a half years And sometimes it's it can be a little bit of rotation where people they only want the free stuff They don't care about the paid stuff So as soon as you start sending the emails and in promoting your your paid stuff, they unsubscribe But that's okay You're gonna have people that are gonna download the freebies and then never buy anything and that's just kind of the The way internet marketing works. So we're running out of time. So I'm gonna go rather quickly here But yeah, so promo bar generator content upgrades things like that. That's how I was able to grow my email list I don't do as much content as as David and his team do so I send out Less emails about three per month about content new product sales promotion stuff like that so I wanted to mention one thing in terms of what the results has brought because I have a very recent example of the power of email marketing and Just this week Valentine's Day last year. I did a big Valentine's Day sale kind of threw together last minute and ended up being One of the biggest sales I had all year and so I thought this year. I'm gonna do the same thing I'm gonna start it early and all of that But essentially once I started sending out those email blasts my sales Quadrupled from the day before and so I wasn't promoting on Facebook. I wasn't running it adds It was all from my email list that generated that and so it's really cool to see like that direct example Wasn't promoted on the blog. It was purely through the email list and what that can do So we're running out of time. So we're gonna go through this rather quickly here But David talked about the value and all the freebies and so you can't just send out sales Emails every day come by my stuff and people don't want that you have to provide value And so we wanted to talk about some of the things here Go ahead and put the whole thing on there Tim Put the whole slide and they can read it and we'll talk about it and we'll run through it quick Yeah Yeah The value part is is well not that far Tim They're all an individual click trigger I'm gonna go ahead and just say a couple of things because on the value side of things We probably do 80 percent value 20 percent sales. I don't know that it might be 90 10 You know, it might be that high 90 10 of You know value to sales emails ratio And I'll tell you when we send the full-on sales emails Oh my god, they're awesome. I wish I wish I could send full-on sales emails, but maybe I should be I don't know. I'm sitting up here telling you guys this and I think I want to try it just to see what happens But I just don't think it's gonna have the impact that it normally does and stuff You know your value emails or your your content your tips tricks freebies that kind of stuff Keep users engaged motivate to stay subscribed, which is really really important We just did a massive clean of our email list our email list actually was about 40,000 and You know the people that complain about you know your emails and stuff They don't realize that you're paying to have them on that list. So You know I don't mind taking them off and we just called about 10,000 people off of our email list that just weren't interested in Receiving our stuff anymore, and I'm not tied to the size of my email list. That doesn't matter to me I care about you know, are they my user or they my customer my potential customer? They're gonna purchase my products and stuff so Tim do we need to cover anything else because I want to ask questions Yeah, one thing I want to add is is the value emails it buys you good Well with subscribers so that when there is a big sale whether that's Black Friday a new product release and they're getting hammered with The emails come by this you know one day left They're remembering that you provided a lot of value you gave them a lot of free stuff free content And so it buys you that good will so they're like okay I'm gonna stay motivated to be on this list, and I'm not gonna go and subscribe because I know that the value they Provide is worth staying on here for So yeah, we'll quickly go through platforms and tools Yeah, let's do questions platforms and tools go ahead Yeah, so he's asking what platforms that we use so I use MailChimp. I've used MailChimp from the beginning and It is I'm yeah, I'm using the paid version of MailChimp I'm on the paid version for two reasons one the automation you have to pay for and then to The size of your list so you only get a certain amount Yeah, 2000 so so I use MailChimp and I've been able to do everything that I've ever wanted to do with MailChimp Some people like all MailChimp's for beginners You can't do all the automation sequencing and stuff, but you absolutely can you can integrate it with your e-commerce website We started with MailChimp also because it was free the free version And that's what we recommend to everyone until you get your first 2000 subscribers And honestly now MailChimp is if they're a player, you know when Our email list got past two thousand They didn't have all of the features that get response and convert kit and some of these other ones add they do have them now And we use get response. We love it, but any of these will work I know the owner of convert kit the people who put out that product. They've got a great product You know, they all are very similar to what they do And even MailChimp now and we're gonna probably be moving back to MailChimp After all this time because For our subscribers, we're gonna have a course and that's where most of them are on and so we're gonna Fill it yeah, I mean we haven't focused that much on affiliate stuff. We're probably the two knuckleheads in the room I Thought it was a bad thing at first. You know, I thought all affiliate It's gonna I don't want my content to be tainted You know, I don't want people to think that we're giving them free stuff so that we can make money on that way Even though I'm giving them free stuff to make money this other way Which is by sending them emails, but I've since changed that greatly. I think people Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, all right do it now. It's not as much this gentleman had a question here He's asking about constant contact in my opinion last time I checked constant contact was very behind the times It works great for simple newsletters, but for doing a lot of the the automations and integrations They haven't really kept up. I could be wrong that that might have changed within the last year or so, but Last I checked they were I probably wouldn't recommend them and I do want to say this when you're when you're looking into that stuff Automation is very important the sequencing. That's where a lot of the power is for your email marketing campaigns Yeah, well not just auto responders the segmenting and the sequencing Yes, oh ask them growth studios calm you can when you go to download our slides and stuff. We'll put it Remember repeat the question. Oh the question was where was the icons? Sorry Yeah, so she's asking Mailchimp a lot of times that emails they're the HTML really pretty looking emails using their email builder opposed to some of the other Platforms like get response. They're more Text-only and kind of look like your buddy is sending it to you So I've I've tested both a little bit in for for my audience, which is a lot of Designers and stuff like that. They seem to respond better to the pretty HTML emails. However, there's one thing To say about the text-only Gmail has a tab called promotions and so a lot of times your emails get stuck in that promotions tab However, there's some tricks you can do to help you stay out of the promotions tab And one of them is to do text-only only have one link You can research in Google how to stay out of the promotions tab, but that's another benefit is Not only does it feel like you're getting an email from your buddy, but it also Stays out of the promotions tab Yes Question is is with GDPR? Are we doing double opt-ins? We have done double opt-ins since the beginning And the reason why we do that is because I don't want somebody to throw some fake email address to get our free stuff So you should always be doing double opt-ins, which will cover you with your GDPR stuff Yeah, and that was one of the things with the list-building tools forminator Gravity forms Caldera all of them do it, but were you? Control basically what email they get so after they respond you can send them a notification saying thanks for subscribing Well, that's what I use to send the freebies. They they subscribe Using the form and then they get the the download link with the notification email and then it integrates with MailChimp and so that Allows it to be GDPR friendly as well as accomplish our goals too Yeah, the time for I think maybe one or two more questions two more questions. Yes Yeah, I think the question is We focused a lot on the consumer holidays and stuff Is there any reason why you would I'm assuming want to send out emails promotional emails? Other times of the year for business for B2B kind of things. Yeah, I mean you have to go with whatever your industry is just because we you know adhere to those specific times to You know that are known to do promotions and stuff. I would say even if you're doing B2B Don't not do those things you can have a black Friday cyber Monday your own promotion B2B Hey, let's celebrate it But definitely if there's other times of the year that are more That are better for your nature your industry and it's known that you know new things come out new tools come out that affect this Industry or whatever. Yeah, absolutely and small business owners. They love to save money too You're right like in like an enterprise level, you know They're gonna be spending millions of dollars and probably don't care about you know saving 200 bucks at black Friday But for small business owners that are buying our products that are building websites for a living They love the black Friday savings We done we're done. All right zero time. Thank y'all