 who will be your facilitator for today's session. To everybody of you who has joined, we just have a few questions, just to see the people that are attending the conference and your relationship to midwifery practice. So kindly choose for me what relationship you have to the midwifery profession by clicking on the blue poll in the lower tab. So where are you? Oh, what is your relationship in your midwifery practice? So we have eight participants so far or nine now. We're waiting for everybody to click on the arrow or their relationship to midwifery. Seek so far, so three more, perfect. So those are the results, so 29% are midwives followed by again 29% who are students, probably student midwives and then three are researchers and educators. Thank you very much for participating. We have another question that is coming through. So how many people are watching this session with you? Where you are? Again, you are free to choose from A, B, C, D and E. Is it just you or is it you with another person? How like just give us the estimates there then we'll be able to publish the results so that we can just have the numbers of how many people are listening, we'll be listening to this session. So far we have seven who are all listening to this presentation alone. One person hasn't voted, maybe it's me. So we can just publish the results. So 100% we are all watching on our own with no one in wherever we are. And the last question is supposed to be just written in the provided box. So let's get to know each other. Where in the world are you joining us from? So you answer the question in the public chat. Hopefully you're able to get the public chat box where supposed to enter those results. Perfect. So we have Scotland, Northeast of England, London, Australia and London. So here we go. Perfect. So I would like to introduce our presenter this morning afternoon or evening depending on why you're listening from. So the presenter this afternoon is Laura who is an artist, a midwife and a creative producer who is also a best activist. So Laura has passed to bring her knowledge and experiences in the arts together with Midwifery to bring fresh interdisciplinary perspectives to inform better education, practice, policy and research. Laura regularly presents at conferences, writes and blogs about best and creates interdisciplinary projects and campaigns such as Materno Journal which supports mental health and well-being through creative journaling and best care and inclusive space to talk about the significance of best for all. So welcome to this presentation Laura. Thank you very much. I just wanna make sure that I can move the slides on if you could make me presenter. Good morning everybody, that looks great, lovely. Good morning everybody. So nice that you could join us. It's a beautiful day here in London. I hope the weather is okay where you are and you're sitting there with a coffee or a tea and are comfortable gonna spend the next 30 to 40 minutes together. It'd be really nice to get any kind of interactive things going here. So if you wanna put any questions in the chat, I'll try to keep an eye on that and respond to your questions as we go along. There will also be time obviously at the end for questions as well. So as thank you very much, I'm going to pay for the introductions, very kind. And I'm just gonna go through this presentation which I've given at quite a lot of conferences recently, particularly because we've just produced a book, a journal journal book, which I'll talk to you about a little bit later. So even though this project's been running for four years, we obviously are sort of excited now to have a book which is a sort of companion to journaling and it's kind of enabled us to compile all the information together and produce a lot of new material that hopefully will be useful for people. So the project, as I said, in 2017, was started by myself and the woman on the left-hand side in the striped t-shirt is now also co-producing with me. And this group of women that you can see here in the image were part of the pilot project. They now have carried on being involved and we call them our founding mothers. So they were all mothers who had a history or a current issue with their mental health and wellbeing, particularly around anxiety and depression. And we set up this pilot group where we would come together as a group and we would go through a journaling exercise together. People would share how they were feeling, particularly through the process of doing the journaling exercise. Lots of friendships were created and as I said, this group now has stayed involved. People with lived experience and mental health issues and they help to inform the project as we go forward. This image we use quite a lot. I almost call it like a signature image and I think it sort of encapsulates what perhaps what we're trying to address through this project, Maternal Journal. So this was an image created by one of our founding mothers who was in that image before by Hannah. She came to the pilot project in her third pregnancy. This was an image that she had had taken by a friend when she was in her second pregnancy. She brought the image to the group and then she worked on top of it with using painting techniques and also printmaking techniques. And I think what's great about it is it kind of shows this whole range of emotion that she was going through at the time. But I think in many ways it represents what perhaps everybody goes through at this time of incredible change in your life from, and you go through the darker moments represented by the clouds and the rain on the left-hand side. But on the right-hand side here we have the sun coming out, the points of light, the more joyful moments. And I think that she was feeling a bit overwhelmed at the time by the darker side of life and her emotions. But what was great was also to see these points of light also represented. So we use this image quite a lot in the project as just a really good way to kind of articulate this emotional journey that not only she was going through but many, so many of us do. So what is journaling? So it might be a term you're familiar with. If not, you might be more familiar with the idea of keeping a diary or a sketchbook. So journaling is really a kind of a catch-all phrase for any type of practice that you keep regularly. You can see on the top right-hand corner there a display of journals that we actually produced from that first pilot project, which was funded by Kings College London and also brought artists and academics together from Kings College London. And you can see there the range of types of journaling. So you can see obviously people writing, drawing, also using photography, sticking things into their journal. And so it's great to often use a plain book where you can do all those kind of things. Though often people also now journal using their phones, using different apps or keep a blog. So journaling is a very sort of wide term really. So why might journaling be important of benefit to our wellbeing and our mental health and particularly through this journey into motherhood and parenting? So as I was talking about before with that image by Hannah, this is a time of incredible change for people going through all sorts of physical changes, often making changes in their lives as well in preparation to be a parent. And within that is a lot of challenge, but also opportunity for personal growth to make positive changes in your life. And so having a journal is a space where one can reflect on what's going on, a space to unpack what's happening. Also a space where one might be thinking about one's own childhood, so thinking back to how we were parented and also our imagination, thinking forward what kind of a parent, what kind of a mother do we want to be? So a lot of time and a lot of space needed for those kind of reflections, which again can be used in a journal. Also coming together in groups as maternal journals set up in a group format. So people come together in small groups from around six to 15 people and they will follow a journal exercise together and then share what they've made. So that provides an opportunity for connection with other people that are going through similar experiences with you to try to create a sense of community. Often parenting, mothering is quite an isolated experience particularly for people in kind of Western societies and therefore coming together with a community of other women, other people who are birthing, one can create those kind of connections, friendships, a sense of community. And often also what emerges from these conversations are some of the sort of more damaging cultural stereotypes around parenting and mothering particularly in Western societies where people often feel a lot of pressure to conform, they feel a lot of pressure to live up to unrealistic ideals and so sharing how we're feeling can also help to dismiss some of that. We can hear stories from other people where we realize a lot of what we're going through is perhaps similar to others, which can be reassuring. We also hear other people's stories that maybe are different to us. So we learn and we see a wider perspective on our own experience. Maternal Journal is what we hope is a safe and inclusive space. You'll notice that I'm using inclusive, gender-inclusive language. So Maternal Journal is very much for anyone who's going through the birth experience or anyone who identifies as being a mother. You don't need any creative skills. Our exercises are very simple and easy to follow. So often people feel there are barriers to their own creativity. Maybe they were told when they were younger at school or something, oh, you can't draw or you can't write. And therefore, sometimes they carry that with them and feel like they're not creative. Whereas we very much feel at Maternal Journal that everyone is creative, that creativity actually is a key part of being a human being. And so hopefully through engaging with this project where we explore all sorts of different ways of journaling, writing, poetry, collage, painting, all number of techniques, people find the creative access for themselves. So I've been talking about doing a journaling exercise together. So we have journaling guides. So we have over 80 guides that have been created by people in the Maternal Journal community. So often they're artists, birth workers, midwives, therapists that have created journaling guides. As I was saying, it could be an exercise in any form. Often they use different techniques within the guide. So you can see here, this is a guide where you're invited to draw the outline of your hand and then write inside all the things that your hand does. So that allows an opportunity for people to think about, particularly all the care work they're doing. This was a guide that was produced during the pandemic. And obviously our relationship to touch at that point was really altered. So it was also an interesting time for us to think about how we were touching people. Our access to touch was different and also the kind of care load that people, particularly mothers were experiencing at the time, having children at home, trying to keep people safe. So that's just a demonstration of quite a simple technique where it does actually involve making an image but also involves writing. You can see two examples there where people have approached it in a very different way. And that's one of the sort of delights of being in a group and sharing a work is seeing how each person will create something very particular and individual to themselves. These are some examples of other guides. So on the left hand side, we have one by an artist called Barbia Santi. It's called Revolutionary Mothering. So it's thinking about all the acts that we do and ourselves as revolutionaries and as the sort of key holders of often culture and often of legacies that we pass on to our children. On the right hand side is another guy by an artist called Helen Sargent called Altered Images. And this is where you're invited to use a found object. So perhaps use a photograph or an image you find in a magazine and then work on top of it, drawing on top and writing on top as well. Also, you could use that within an app that you might have on your phone. There are lots of functions where you can, you know, import an image and then draw or write on top of it. So again, trying to cover lots of different ways of journaling people could then work on something independently and then stick it into their journal if they're using a book form. These are just some images of people with their journals from different groups. And again, you can see the different ways that people are journaling. So on the left-hand side, someone's actually been writing a poem. It's lovely to see there's someone with their babies. So our groups are often inclusive of children. Some facilitators will give some guidance around that. So make babies up to one. Other facilitators encourage people to bring their children whatever age. We also obviously run a lot of virtual groups where people have all sorts of caring responsibilities and they can pop in and out during the session, depending on what's going on. On the right-hand side, again, Lynn, an artist from one of our pilot groups. Again, she's actually an artist, but she had experienced post-natal depression herself and found following the exercise is really helpful for her to reflect back on those experiences. And this is an image from one of our virtual groups. So particularly during the pandemic, obviously everything went virtual. We were quite worried initially about how that was going to work because of this really important aspect of connection and community that's created within the group's face-to-face. But I think as people got more and more familiar with doing things online, as we are today, actually those kind of barriers fell away and the same kind of sense of connection was created doing an online group. And also obviously one of the benefits of doing the online group as we are today is that people can join wherever they are, that the geographical barriers are lifted. And also again, people with caring responsibilities, it makes it easier and more flexible for them to attend. This is actually a group from Argentina. So we developed a website quite early on in 2018 where we posted the format for how to set up and run a maternal journal group. So we have a page with a toolkit that has a step-by-step guide to running and setting up a group. It has lots of resources for people to use, registration forms, guidance on social media use, also photo release forms, some of our illustrations that people can use, even sample posters. So what we wanted to do very early on with this project was to democratise the process. So what has happened from that point onwards is people have set up and run groups all over the world. So we now have groups in South America, North America, Australia, all over Europe, Malaysia, Thailand, which is really exciting. So the idea was for it to be democratised. And this group runs quite regularly in Argentina. And as well as seeing all the lovely work that they've produced here, which again is very individual to each person, what's really lovely is the smiling faces and the sense that they've had an enjoyable session. This is an image actually from my journal. So we very much encourage anyone who's facilitating group to also do the exercise alongside the other participants. So we break down those kind of barriers and there is no hierarchy within the group. This was in response to one of our journaling guides which was created by a poet and a musician. And this was thinking about a soundscape. So I centred it on my experience of my second child who was in the Neonatal Unit for quite an extended period of time and thinking about how difficult that sound environment was, all the beeps and the monitors going off and the crying babies, the doctors talking to me, all the sort of plotting on the sort of diagrams and the graphs. And so this was made in response to that, which was actually really important for me. It made me really think about that experience and why it was so stressful in a different way. These are just a few more examples of journal pages. This is using collage, which we use a lot. As that other guide was saying, using a found object is often collage is a really good way to get into making a piece of work or a journal page. Again, because of those barriers, people often feeling that the blank page is intimidating. So it's great just to use magazines or newspapers or even greetings cards. You might have kept wrapping paper, anything cutting up and starting to stick things together onto the page and then working into that yourself with your own images and your own text. This is another page actually by Sam, our co-producer when she was pregnant and she was experiencing a lot of anxiety. And she was talking here on the right hand side about this idea of the baby brain. And so that was something we then started talking about in the group and I could chip in there as a midwife and talk about how actually a lot of new research now is showing that mothers and people at birth, their brains actually developed during pregnancy. So to really dispel some of those kind of negative associations that somehow when you become pregnant or a mother that somehow you actually lose capacity whereas actually it's the opposite. Another key aspect of the project is to link people into the history of journaling as a feminist practice. So one of the reasons for this really is that keeping particularly a diary was an acceptable form for women to do often in our sort of societies when being an artist, a journalist, a writer, a poet was not as easy or as acceptable as it is now. There were more barriers to this. And so keeping a journey was an acceptable way for women not only to explore their creativity but often to express social and political views. And so you'll find that quite a lot of published diaries historically were written by people who were thinking of the reader. So they were expecting and hoping their diaries that would be published. And so there is this very sort of strong tradition of particularly diary keeping for women. You'll often see it now I think in a not necessarily such a radical form but often girls there are lots of sort of diaries on the market often with little padlocks and things like that. So I think there's this legacy of diary keeping particularly for women that we can tap into. However, as I say, many of these diaries were very important social documents on the right hand side. Ida B. Wells, a very important American campaigner and suffragist and diarist. So her work is a really important social document of her time on the left hand side. Virginia Woolf, very well known 20th century writer. She actually kept a diary throughout her life as well as she did publish her work as well. Obviously important plays and novels as well. She was an important cultural figure but if we look at her diary it's very interesting in the way she talks about it. She felt more relaxed in her diary. It's obviously an account of her life which is interesting. And also she talked about how actually the craft of writing it helped her by keeping a diary. She could be more informal. She could play with her craft. So there are also really kind of interesting diaries and journals kept by artists as well as by other important and also by everyday women who are documenting their lives as again gives us an insight into the time. And at the moment, there is an explosion I would say of accounts of motherhood and parenting. Another reason why perhaps that voice is not so seen in the history of literature and art is that it wasn't considered an important subject and that's why it's often absent. However, now I think it's really exciting to see so many accounts of motherhood and parenting from all sorts of perspectives. And that is a rich resource that we tap people into and on our website. And in the book we have, you know, quite extensive kind of recommendations, reading lists not only looking back historically at those diaries but lots of contemporary work. Here there's a range of, you know, accounts of motherhood through poetry, through graphic novels on the right hand side and also through obviously more conventional accounts as a memoir. And this is one of the artists that we have involved in the project who's a well-known poet Tolu and she's published a recent wonderful volume of poems last year locating strong women. So this is the kind of caliber of people that we have that has created guides for us. So particularly through them creating guides for us hopefully you then get introduced to their work as well. And in the book more extensively we have examples of many of the artists involved in the project. So they've given us permission to publish some of their poems, some of their artworks so that also you can be inspired by their work as well as follow their journaling guide. So yeah, just a little bit more about the book. So it was published last year as I said we were able to commission new journaling guides by a whole range of artists and birth workers. So we actually have 80 guides in there ranging from as I say poetry, writing, collage. There's even some guides that involve dance some craft techniques. So hopefully we have lots of ways for you to find the sort of guides that you want to try. We've got lots of indexes at the back of the book so that if you can look up all the poetry guides all of the dancing guides, all of the writing guides if you want to, there's an index also of time. So we make recommendations, this guide might be only five minutes, 10 minutes up to an hour. Though all of the guides are flexible so you could choose to spend longer on them if you wanted to, obviously you can repeat them. It's often quite interesting to repeat guides and see how your experience is changing. And that's one of the sort of, in a way aspects of journaling or diary keeping is that it's a document of a particular time. Many people keep journals and diaries throughout their whole life and we certainly hope that by being introduced to that you will keep it as a practice for yourself to benefit you and your mental health and wellbeing throughout your life. But sometimes people choose to keep a diary journal for a particular time, often during pregnancy or the first couple of years of motherhood. And it's then very interesting to look back and see what you were feeling and thinking at six months ago, a year ago, two years ago and then where you are now. So sometimes repeating guides can be really interesting because they kind of chart that change. As I said, we have examples of artworks by our artists as well which are nice to be inspired by and a bit more about the history of journaling, a bit more about how journaling and creativity can support mental health and wellbeing and then a whole load of resources with, you know, books we suggest you look at, organizations that support mental health and also creativity. So hopefully it's a good resource for people who want to journal on their own. It's like a companion for them to keep dipping into over time. And also if you're interested in setting up and running a maternal journal book group, obviously it will give you all the information you need. It's also a great resource to recommend to anyone that's in a group with you. Also a really nice gift actually. We find a lot of people are giving it to friends and relatives, particularly when they're going through pregnancies. So that's really all I was gonna say in terms of the presentation. The information here is how you can find out a bit more about us and follow us. So we're on social media at maternaljournaljrnl, not the full word, unfortunately, that was taken by someone already. So we regularly post on Instagram, Facebook and also on Twitter. So we regularly post, you know, what we're doing. Often we're running free sessions for people that you can join. We also have our website maternaljournal.org where as I said, the whole format for how to set up and run a group is available for free. We also have up to 30 guides that you can use for free that are on the website. You can download them or use them for reference. We've also got a groups page which shows you all of the current groups that are going on all over the world. So there you can contact people or get information about what groups are running currently if you'd like to join them. As I say, many, many of them now are virtual so you can join them wherever you are in the world. And if you're interested in getting a copy of the book, it's available. It was published by Pintra Martin which is a small specialist publisher in the UK that publish a lot of books about birth, a pregnancy and also yoga. You can get it via Pintra Martin but it is also available on Amazon, Hive. And if you just put maternal journal book, it'll come straight up and be easy for you to find. So yeah, I'm really happy to answer any questions that you might have or any points of interest. So please do put any of your questions in the chat on the left there. Someone's asked for the link. So yeah, so maybe if I go back, can I go back to the last slide? I think I've lost the facility to go back. Could you just put me back to the last slide before? Ah, let's see. There we go. So that's all our information. And then if you wanna know more about me, I have a website as well, laurigofreasics.com. And you can find out information there about the sort of other presentations that I do, other publications that I'm involved with and other projects that I run such as Birth Cafe, which is another sort of open format group format where people are invited to come along together and talk about their relationship to birth. And that could be anyone because I think it's really interesting to try and set up spaces often where people can talk about birth, they might have given birth themselves, but obviously we've all been born. So we all have a birth story and we all have a relationship and we also don't often have an opportunity to talk about that. So that's another project that I run. Yes, Sheila, you asked for the link. There you go. Thanks, Ali. These look amazing, brilliant. Could I maybe put a question to those that are here? Does anyone journal at the moment? Does anyone keep a journal or a diary at the moment? I think a few people, my diary usually lasts less than a week, okay? Yeah, I mean, I think the thing about journaling, yes, but not in a structured way. Yeah, I mean, I think some of the sort of other types of journaling kind of groups and organizations or movements such as you might have heard of the artist's way, which has been very influential way of helping people to have a regular practice do suggest sort of ways of journaling. And often they talk about morning pages or a daily practice. What we do have on our website and in the book as well, what we have is our sort of top tips for journaling. And what we try to talk about there is really find people finding the way that works for them. I think it's important that journaling doesn't become another sort of stick that we use to beat ourselves with. So it shouldn't feel like homework. For some people, keeping a daily practice is important at works for them, but for many other people, myself included, I prefer to just journal or use my journal when I want to and that's one of the reasons that we talk about the guides of different lengths, particularly aware that people with young children or babies particularly often have very, very little time to themselves and very little time for their own creative life. And so it's more realistic to, you know, perhaps suggest a five minute guide and for people to find that point in the day for themselves, it might be when they're feeding a baby and they're writing something on their phone with their thumb or it could be, you know, when the baby's having a nap or it could be when someone else is helping them with their care work or it might be that they can build time into their week when they say, right, this is the time when I'm gonna have some creative time for myself. So I think it's important people find the way that works for them. Some of our other tips would be, like I was talking about with those journal pages, thinking about sometimes starting with college could be really good way to get over that sort of blank page phenomena, sometimes using other found objects. Sometimes, you know, just many of the guides will give you pointers, they'll give you techniques that you can then take forward on a regular basis. I really like that hand one, for example. That could be something you repeat and try lots of times. Oh, thank you. Today's gonna start keeping a journal, brilliant. So I think often, you know, within our own professional life we're encouraged to keep a reflective journal. And I think that sometimes, however that again can kind of create barriers where people feel like the only kind of sanctioned way to keep a journal or to be writing is in this quite structured kind of reflexive way of following, you know, a certain type of model. And then hopefully what our guides do is they open up all sorts of different and creative ways of journaling, which maybe, you know, are not gonna be present in such a kind of educational or sort of context. And we have actually had a lot of groups run by student midwives, where they've used our guides for to sort of support their reflective practice. We've also run groups for perinatal mental health services. So even though our groups are generally recommended for people, anyone that's birthed or if you want to focus it around mental health for people that have mild to moderate mental health issues, we have run groups in perinatal services for people with more serious mental health issues where we've worked alongside occupational therapists or specialist midwives that have the degree of training and expertise to support a group like that. And we also offer training to people in that situation. We also offer training. I often run training sessions for people that are setting up and running groups where they've got funding, perhaps from the NHS or from the Lottery or the Arts Council or other funding bodies we have in the UK particularly. And then we can run training sessions for those people online normally in order to just introduce them to the format, give them a bit more support, alongside obviously all the free kind of resources we have and the toolkit that we have online, which most people use independently. Though we're always available on email. So if you go to our website or if you go to us on social media, you can contact me and I'm very happy to set up individual Zoom sessions or phone calls, which I do quite commonly with people who just have particular questions or particular situations that they want to discuss a bit more fully. So we're always really happy to offer that for free. Our training sessions, we do ask for a fee for that. So those are available for people if they've got funding. We have quite a lot of groups that are running quite big scale maternal journal projects around the country and the UK. So we're supporting those at the moment in Devon and particularly in Wakefield, which is in north of England. We've also got some exciting developments in research. So we're working with Professor Deborah Bick who's based in Coventry now at the Warwick Clinical Trials Unit. And we're running in the autumn a trial for maternal journal using and I've trained midwives in Coventry, which is in the Midlands of the UK. And they will be working with a group of people who are identified with mild to moderate mental health issues. They'll go through an eight week maternal journal course and then we'll have a controlled group of people who have standard care. And so we'll be collecting data which will be really exciting because even though we've run projects as I said in perinatal mental health services without that research and data we really hopefully very exciting to have that data in that formal way so that we can hopefully then look to have this as a more common intervention within particularly the NHS in the UK. So yeah, lots of exciting stuff going on and we see maternal journal really as a movement. So we're here me and Sam kind of as the producers but what we hope as much as possible is that all the resources are available for people to take out and disseminate and own for themselves so that that's the way that it has really grown now as a sort of international movement. So yeah, I mean if there's not any more questions just to say please do get in touch if you're interested to know more or you want to discuss with us any training or just in a more informal way setting up projects where you're located. Some people have started to translate the guides into other languages. So we've got a Japanese group at the moment that are translating the guides. We've got our group in Argentina who've been translating the guides. So it's also would be really exciting to have more of that going on so that the English hopefully isn't so much of a barrier. Oh, Bupé you have some questions? I have three questions Laura, go for it. Yeah, so the next question is with regards to starting probably journaling clubs with the actual practitioners like for instance the midwives. Have you thought about that? So doing journaling with midwives was that your question? So you were breaking up a bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I said quite a lot of student midwives have used maternal journal resources. They've set up groups. There've been sessions at King's College London where I trained for the student midwives. And I've actually done quite a lot of taster maternal journal groups at midwifery conferences where most of the participants were midwives. And then quite a lot of people have picked that up and then gone and set up groups with women that they're looking after. But what was really interesting was in some of those sessions a lot came up for the midwives actually often their own personal stories that they haven't perhaps reflected on. I remember one particular midwife doing her journal page about a birth that had happened 20 years ago. And it got very emotional. And so I think that it's definitely a technique that can be very useful for individual midwives who want to explore their own experiences and have their own creativity supported. And I think a lot of the techniques can be used with student midwives as I said to support a slightly more creative approach to reflective practice. And what has been the impact of our journey with the participants that you've had? Have you shared stories with them about how they felt being part of the journal journey? Yeah, I mean, we have a lot of wonderful feedback, you know, lots of wonderful quotes and we do collect feedback. So part of our toolkit, there are links to online feedback forms that we encourage people to use. And so generally the reaction is incredibly positive. I think people feel that it supported them with their mental health and wellbeing. It's a being of benefit to them. And I think that it's kind of multifactorial as I was trying to sort of outline is that, you know, being creative, there's a lot of research around the benefits of any kind of creative practice. So I think, you know, the creativity, fostering that in people, supporting man people is a very established way of supporting people's mental health and wellbeing. And we can see this being taken on now in the UK with the sort of movement for social prescribing, art on prescription. So it's very identified and very known the benefits of that. I think moreover, journaling is a practical way of being creative when you have little time and when you're under pressure as most parents are. And so the techniques very much are based around that. So having a book, you know, which you can just open and do something in quickly and close, it can also remain a private thing quite easily and that book for you, you don't need expensive resources, you know, all of our materials are things you can pick up in a, you know, pound shop or a supermarket. And the book itself or even just using your phone is hopefully also makes it affordable for many. But I think the other aspect of it is the psychosocial support that you get through particularly coming together in a group, whether that's online or face-to-face. But even if you're journaling on your own, then you can, you know, share what you're doing on our social media and it's a very supportive community where other people will comment and, you know, it's our groups and our movement is about supporting people. It's not about in any way any judgments. It's not about having a sort of crit of your work, like it's an artwork, it's about celebrating whatever anybody does and supporting them to take that further. So yeah, I think the benefits are very broad of being involved, you know, in maternal journal, but in terms of picking up on our techniques and hopefully taking them forward in your life. So what will be really interesting with the research is that hopefully we'll get a more kind of formal recognition of that and we'll get data, you know, which will then be able to, you know, provide that more formal evidence of the benefits. I was wondering if anyone would mind if I took a picture of the screen, would that be okay? Just to... It's okay with me. Is that okay? Yes, thanks. Brilliant, brilliant. I don't know if there are any other questions we're gonna wind up now. Okay.