 Next up, we've got Victor Souza from Benaro Group and Johan Christensen from City Network. We're super excited to have you both on. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for having us. So, we're here to talk about public cloud, but in particular, we're talking about public cloud in Sweden right now. We're kind of zeroing in all over the place. But as we've heard throughout the last couple of days, we've got huge public cloud growth. OpenSAC itself is growing, but open source is growing. But we've got 80 plus public clouds, 175 public data centers. And we're growing all over the world, China, Europe, Southeast Asia, South America, even the US. So we're very excited to have you both on. And what, in your opinion, Johan, we'll start with you. What do you think is driving the expansion of OpenSAC public clouds? Well, listen, I think there's a number of effects in this. One thing is that public cloud is taking different shapes. You have, at this point, public clouds for banks, various types of community types of clouds and so forth. But I do actually believe that the biggest driver is the political aspects of where we stand. Currently, from a public cloud perspective, there's maybe five, six companies that are serving the world that has proven to be a challenge for a lot of countries, whether it's laws or sovereignty or other aspects of society that might become vulnerable in a situation where you don't have choice, so to speak. And I think OpenSAC has, for a long time, been there for private clouds, but the growth, I think, now is becoming more apparent because various countries simply want to make sure that there's going to be more choice in the world. And I think OpenSAC is a foundation for that going forward. Yeah, absolutely. Data sovereignty, obviously, is something that we're seeing spur the growth all over the place. And so Victor, building on what Johann said, do you think that OpenSAC is an OpenSAC-powered public clouds are starting to be in a competitive space with hyperscalar clouds? When you look at the footprint, it's huge. Is it larger? Absolutely. I mean, OpenSAC is really the alternative for the ones that are looking for an open source solution. And as Johann was saying, if you look at the public cloud market today, there is a very strong need for an alternative for local cloud solutions, for solutions that are provided out of your country or out of your own region, let's say Europe, for example. So there is a strong need. There's a strong growth. And I think the principles of OpenSAC, of openness, are really, really well aligned with the needs of data privacy. You want to make sure that you know what's running. You want to know what the code is. You want to know what's behind the curtains. And all of the transparency that you have with OpenSAC really allows you to build a public cloud on those bases, on those premises, right? So I completely agree with you, Juan. And I think the growth that we see is just the beginning really. I think we're going to see more and more of that. Yeah. So, you know, speaking of growth, the two of you are sitting at work, Benero, you're in the same market. And when I spoke to Benero originally, I mentioned sitting at work as a competitor. And you stopped me and said we don't see ourselves as competitors. We see ourselves as collaborating to use OpenSource to bring a public cloud solution to Sweden. So, you know, why are you collaborating instead of competing? I think there is a very strong, let's say, incentive for us to cooperate. And feel free to add it here, Juan. So when I'm talking to customers, which I do quite often, you know, migrating to a new cloud is sort of, you know, getting married, right? It's a long-term commitment, right? You want to know who is on the other side, how that probably behaves, what's behind the curtains, everything, right? And that process is sometimes, you know, takes a little while to get the customer landed and decided on a certain cloud solution. So it's actually one of the strengths when I'm talking to customers to say, well, we want you to be with us on our own marriage, right? We want you to be with us because we provide you with awesome services. And if you're not happy with our services, we have city networks, our colleagues here, and there are plenty of other providers here in Europe that offer you exactly the same APIs, exactly the same software, right? That's the power of openness, really. And you can essentially, literally migrate your applications to another provider over a day. You don't need to rewrite your software. You don't need to make major changes to it. You can just migrate to another provider very easily. So I see strength in that. We're obviously cooperating in the market. And that is a very positive thing for our customers in the end of the day. The big picture of open source, I think, in particular, small countries like Sweden, right? I completely agree with Victor. But the other side of that coin is, of course, you know, how in the world are you going to compete with hyperscale unless you have lots of people helping out building that code? There's not any company today in Europe. And I'm actually talking to very large European companies as well that actually would build this on their own. Open source is the only solution forward. And I mean, the hyperscale is, of course, using open source all over the place, right? And so the cooperation becomes, you know, we feed off of each other. You know, if we didn't have other companies, including Benero, for example, helping out building up the open stack, we wouldn't be where we are today. So it's both that side. The other side of the equation, of course, is also that there are three, four, five major companies out there. And I think for most public cloud providers today, I think those are the bigger competitors, so to speak, to be had. But the open source side is a key aspect, I would say. Yeah, I love that. And you mentioned the hyperscalers. And of course, they're part of the solution as well, right? It's a fact. It's happening. You know, I guess you could say it's a hybrid cloud world. So, you know, how are your customers leveraging public and private and open source and hyperscaler? How does that work for you, Johan? Well, I mean, like you said, it's a fact, right? The hyperscalers are there, and it's a fact. And, you know, when we argue for other public clouds as well, it's not a matter of them or us or anything like that. It's, for me, it's more about a balance in the market, right? It's never been great if you have a monopoly or maybe not a LibrePoly, right? Because at some point, that'll hurt customers, you know? So, for us, we've always looked at a multi-cloud type of world. And even from a business decision perspective, putting all your workloads in one basket, you know, it's also not been great. So there is a play there, of course, as well as a competition. So, you know, that's one side. And then if you talk about the hybrid aspect, you know, there's a lot of that going on because there's a lot of companies that will continue to have their own data centers. You know, just like Victor said, OpenStack works great in your own data center. You can easily, of course, you know, federate that out into a public cloud as well. So I think we're hitting best of both worlds there where you can actually do something, you know, homegrown if you want to do that. But you can also play with the big players and have us as an intermediate in that. And it works out well for the customers. Yeah. What about you, Victor? Your customers kind of asking for a hybrid cloud solution? Or are you helping people down that path? Oh, definitely. Definitely. As you once said, it is a fact, right? And I would say that the legal landscape changing has triggered a lot of customers that had all of their workloads in a certain place to come to us and say, hey, let's take a look at the full solution we have here right now. And parts of this will have to be with you folks because we need to take care of that data privacy loss, for example, right? So where we're handling a personal data, we're going to have to move those parts of the system to you. And we want to continue using the hyperscalers for some other functions, right? And we build those hybrid solutions, make sure that we have fast lines into the hyperscalers to make sure that connectivity is in place, right? And you can reach the other parts of the service that are left there. That aligns really well, let's say with business goals. It aligns really well with the redundancy requirements, as you once said there, right? You don't want to put all of your eggs in the same basket. And it opens up for a lot of possibilities for customers that really need, that really have to take care of their data in a special way, right? That have to take care of data privacy questions. In that sector, there's a lot of, let's say, banking, health companies, and a lot of the public sector as well, that really is skiing on making sure that their data is stored safely, and that no one has access to it, right? Yeah, absolutely. I know there's the Italy's Cloud Nazionale initiative, which is basically bringing all government records into the cloud. And I think it's still up in the air, whether they choose an open source solution for that or not. But we're seeing a lot of movement along that. What's next in the hybrid cloud landscape? Would you like to start you one? Well, I mean, you know, if we just take this regulatory situation, I find it fascinating, Jimmy, to be honest, to see where we're heading. We're seeing movements that, frankly, had you said something to me three years ago along the lines of this, I would have thought you'd be, you know, crazy or something, right? Because we've been so used to using certain software, certain providers, and for such a long time that it's built up walls to do anything else. And I think that you're going to see a trend of continued change, meaning that, and I'll say this bluntly, I think that the governments here in Scandinavia starting with Sweden will start making some big announcements here before the end of the year, where they're literally not only going to encourage open source, but they're going to go open source to a very large extent. And that means also moving away from some of those traditional providers that we've seen, which is, you know, for any government, or any government agencies that speak a huge, huge deal, because there's so many avenues where that's a tough journey. But it's actually happening at this point. So I would say that the trend would continue to be where, you know, Europe wants to continue to make sure that they can actually provide balance, meaning choice, as well as making sure that, you know, loss and also values can be adhered to. Yeah, that's super interesting. I didn't know that about Scandinavia, but I love it. Victor, final words? I can't concur more with what you want to just say. I've only a strong trend towards open source here in Scandinavia. It's a very special place, right? If you look at the country, all of the hyperscalers are very present here in the country and in the region here in the Nordics, right? Because there is a lot of business, there's a very, very hot startup landscape as well. Lots of new companies, lots of new ideas, lots of venture capital. And of course, there is a need for these local solutions for open source software that doesn't really lock people in, right? That provide the freedom for you to decide who your provider is going to be independently of your investments that you have made on integrating towards that cloud. So I think we see a continued trend towards open source, right? And we look forward to be part of that ecosystem, continuing supporting customers that really care about their data, that really care about where their data is stored and how secure it is. And I think the future is bright, so to say, for OpenStack and for all of the companies that are working within this space streaming. Yeah, I love it. Scandinavia, it's freezing cold, but it's a hot landscape. Exactly. All right, listen, thank you, Victor, and thank you, Johan. I appreciate both of you coming on.