 Honourable Senators, may I remind you that when the House rules, the question in the debate was that Parliament authorize the Minister for Finance to guarantee a loan in the amount of 100 million US dollars from the Export-Import Bank of the Republic of China, Taiwan by the St. Lucia Air and Seaport Authority for the purpose of financing the Hewanore International Airport Redevelopment Project. Senator Gideon. Thank you, Madam President. I want to join in what was said before in terms of being the end of the year and I do want to extend lifelong blessings to each and every one of us sitting here this afternoon. The workers of the Parliament and by extension the people of Denrisal, I want to extend which has blessings to them and hope that by God's grace we continue to live and to be and see when the time comes that the correct decisions are made. Madam President, I also want to join with those who have spoken before, in particular the two independent Senators and to air concerns with what we are dealing with this afternoon. I want to make it categorically clear that I don't think anyone is opposed to the development of HIA. What from my sitting down and listening, what I have understood is that is the condition, the condition of the money borrowed and what it speaks of that is where the problem is. At no point that I have heard anyone saying that they opposed to the redevelopment of the airport. We have at this point in time Madam President, borrowings that have been simply considered has been overboard. Whether it is we coming here to guarantee a loan or we borrowing money, it has been unprecedented. To date this amount of money that we are sitting on this afternoon, we have heard before and I will reiterate that it is a very large sum. A hundred million when we convey or convert to our eastern Caribbean dollars, it amounts to 270 million and when we look at what it is for, most of it has been spoken of even in the lower house. It is basically for more so the terminal. I heard the Prime Minister echoing saying that the money is 100 million. If it is not enough, they are going to look for other sources of revenue. Now when we look at St. Lucia, Madam Speaker and Madam President, not too long ago, just recently, government offered citizens working class some what do you call a bonus and from reports, lots of bargaining bodies have rejected it. And the case is most persons are saying when I speak to people, they are saying if government can borrow so much, they should be able to do better in offering its citizens, the citizens of the country, a better deal. Now I am not one to speak high words, high terms and look for all ways of trying to make things that are not possible, possible, use all kinds of illustrations to justify. The point is persons on the road, persons out there, citizens are saying that if they can do for one, they should be able to do for all or they should be able to do for them. And so, here lies the problem. You have minibus drivers, minibus drivers were promised, they have not received what they were promised. And the list goes on. Madam President, I sat back and I started reasoning with myself. I said if government wants to guarantee, they put it in terms of guarantee, let's give guarantee, the term guarantee, $100 million, $270 million to Slasper for the renovation of the international airport. More persons would be coming in, they said, that is going to give them a chance to build on tourism arrivals. Now, we cannot look for things in isolation or we cannot talk about things in isolation. We cannot. I don't think it is appropriate to talk about a hotel airport development and our healthcare is not up to par. Our health institutions, more persons are coming in, what if, God forbid, there should be a plane crash, what is going to happen? We can borrow money, but things that are more important, I think, that are more important, we pay blind to it. The question is why? Why? Why is this happening? Why would I have citizens and tourists come into my island? The healthcare, they have said it is not 100%, but we have a sprung new terminal rehabilitated everything. Something happens, we are in a crisis. What happens? St. Jude is not there to accommodate anybody. The situation is terrible at St. Jude. We want to spend $100 million, we rehabilitated the airport. We recently took $13 million diversion road and more critical things, important things, things that I think that are important and not me, they should see it as important is left undone, is left undone. We are coming here, give us just the skeleton. We are dealing with just a skeleton of a loan, the skeleton, but where is the meat? The meat is hidden from us. We don't know. We have to be asking, asking questions because it is not there. So personally, I am of the view that while the airport is needed, we have no problem with this, but the terms and agreement and arrangement as spoken before of this loan, I think is very, very careless. And I think for me, if I were to support this borrowing, did not want to use the term borrowing, if I have to support this, I need more information. I need more information that I could read through or more has to be explained to me to give me an understanding that when a layman on the road meets me and tells me, ask me a question about this loan, I would have everything in my hand to explain to them, give them the understanding that they likewise could support it. I think for too long, this parliament has been treated as like some robust mechanism that we come with things have given, hidden, and that we just have to support. And if we don't, then they come out, oh, we oppose everything. It's not everything we oppose. When we look, we read the fine prints, most of what we are looking for is not there. And so we have a right to question. So if you are coming with something that is good for the country, which is needed, put it on the table, don't hide things, don't come with part of it and the rest is hidden. For example, after the five years, how do we pay the loan? How much do we pay back? We don't know. We don't know that. What will the interest rates be? We don't know that. We have a fixed interest rate where we pay 2 million plus every six months. During the five-year grace period, then what happens after? What happens thereafter? Is it for me to figure out? Do I have to figure it out? I can't. It has to be given in black and white that I could understand it and share it with other persons so that they themselves could join in and say, yes, they support. Yes, we think. So I believe, Madam President, as I said, I have to share my five cents on this, that the loan arrangement as written is not clear enough. And for this reason, I will not sit here and blindly sign on or blindly say yes to something that tomorrow, when it is rifting problems that I have to go back and say, had I known better, I wouldn't have signed or I wouldn't have said yes. So I think this parliament is not a robust mechanism. It's not a robust parliament. It's a parliament that has to deal with matters in its fullness as given. It has to be given. We need to understand everything that has been done so that we can say yes or we can say no. It was actually in the lower house. And I'm still asking, and it has been asked before, what are the terms of it? Is it just the 2.5? What more? After the five-year period, the grace period, what happens? What goes on? So Madam President, I think with the amount of problems we have in Saint Lucia right now, with health care, with education, and so on, with our young persons, I think better should be done and better can be done. And if this government is a listening government, as they claim that they are listening government, if they are listening government, they would go back, sit down and come back and tell us the truth so that we can sit and say yes, we agree to the loan arrangements, or no, we don't agree, and why? And so as things can happen in Saint Lucia in a clearer and more ethical manner. Thank you. Honourable Minister in the Ministry of Tourism, Information, Broadcasting, Culture and Creative Industries, Responsible for Culture and Creative Industries. Thank you Madam President. Madam President, I think on this side of the house we have provided all the information. But sitting and listening to the opposition, I understand why the people of Saint Lucia elected this government in 2016. You see, listening, I hear a mentality of doubt about our people's capabilities. I hear a mentality that deflits our people. And I hear a mentality that does not believe that we can. This is why we are here on this side. And this is why I'm happy to be a part of this team. So I want to laud the government for this decision to guarantee, to guarantee, to give slasper that support, to enable it to deliver for us. As a citizen of this country, when it comes to public debt, I'm always concerned. We all are concerned, particularly when we reflect on guarantees given to Rochamel and the failed attempt at the Hellenei one. When we reflect on those things, we are just happy that we have a team of people here now who consider all the risk factors before a decision is made. So managing the airport with its present capacity has become exceptionally difficult due to a lack of capacity on all sides. And we've said so. The airside, the terminal side, and the land side. So we want to make it different. And Madam President, I heard my colleague, independent senator, talk about the fact that people come to your country not to see your airport. But the airport is the first and last impression that they would have of your country. And I think anything we can do, you understand, to improve that, you know, should be done. And it's significant. So slasper, Madam President, has already paid a high price, you understand, for this venture that we're going into with them. And not only slasper, but the people of St. Lucia have paid a high price because you've had some leaders that do not understand money and how things work. You know, millions of dollars has been spent on consultancies and feasibility studies. They also have been spent, well hundreds of hours have been spent by professionals, by experienced persons, you know, on the development of this project. So, Madam President, we are confident that given the support that we've committed to giving to slasper, that they will be able to do the work that is required of them. We see the investment in the airport as an ability or an opportunity for us to significantly improve our capacity to deliver on a lot more things for our country. In executing it, it will give us the economic space to breathe and to make things happen. And the difference here is that I want my opposition senators to understand there is economics and there is social development. And there are things that you must do to be able to expand your economy. And this is one of the things that we're doing to be able to realize that. The hospital is a social project. It will not have the returns, it will not have the level of returns that an investment in the airport, the heroine or international airport will have. And that's why we're making that investment here. So, having reviewed all the options around this and we had debates, constant debates, even if there have been debates from 2009 on this, the best fit for our country is to guarantee slasper that loan. And you know, Madam President, slasper has displayed the competence and you heard the eloquence of my colleague this morning on this. But for me, as a citizen of this country, on Friday last, we walked through the gallery, the gallery that was organized with the experts from Malaysia who were working with our team to prepare our vision plan with us. We walked through with the slasper representative. And yes, the vision 2022, that's right, you have it right. Vision 2022 plan, which included the new airport and not just included a new airport, but the completion of the new airport. What was blatantly glaring to me as a citizen is the fact that all the professionals in that room who are excited about the project, they wanted it to happen. And we as leaders have a responsibility, you understand, to listen to our people and not only listen, but believe in them, you know, because again, my colleague minister picked up, my colleague senator picked up the tactful suggestions and innuendos by the opposition, the former prime minister of this country that slasper was not capable, you know, an organization such as slasper is not capable. But yet this was a government was in office for 15 years with slasper. And you say after 15 years of your involvement, your encouragement, your efforts to develop our people that an organization like slasper was not capable. That was a sad cry for me. And the question for me is why? Why after so many years, you do not have the confidence in an institution that has never required one cent from the government to facilitate its operations? Why? We need to look deeper into that. And that's why I always say we need to look at those people who claim to be leaders, you know. It is a known fact that slasper has well qualified and experienced personnel in aviation, Madam President. As a result, it would be incomprehensible for me to believe that a foreign entity would be superior in managerial capability. That's why I'm a proud solution. And I would hope that as we continue to invest in our people, that more and more, we would give them that latitude to work and operate in areas that they are great at, you know. We remain confident that slasper, given the skillsets we've been, will continue to find solutions. And so that after the years of guarantee of this loan, not years of guarantee, and there will come a time story when this guarantee will be a thing of the past. As a government, we believe in our people. That's why we made the investment. And the last time we were here, we were talking about the 13 million dollars that we borrowed to invest in the people of this country to invest in the professionals so that they can give us what we want as a society. We have to do this. Nobody will do it for us. We must take the investment. We must make our people feel that they belong in this society. We must not doubt them, but we must encourage them. It's not conveniently. The convenience comes when you look to stop the airport project or stop the DSH project because you think that you're threatened. We want our society to be better. We want our people to be capable. We want them to be less dependent on us as politicians. We want that because if our society is functioning well, our people will know what it is to go out and get their own way. We must release them. Talking about release will come later. But that's how countries like Taiwan and Singapore went ahead. That's how they went ahead of the rest of the world. They invested in their people. They took the time to do the training, to prepare them, to shift the mindsets, to change the mindsets of the people so that they can achieve the goals that they want. So we will not give our assets away as your position is proposing, but we'll focus on building. Another issue with the mindset, too, is that this project, Madam President, when I calculate, I saw $1.7 billion would be realized at the end of this project. And for me, the decision of the den opposition to go in the other direction was because, again, of the mentality that they do not believe that solutions deserve this. Because the mentality, the mentality den of the leadership was $5 can block a hole. So if it's too lucrative for us, then we can't get it. And that's the mentality. And so, Madam President, Madam President, I want to endorse this project. And it's a guarantee to a group of individuals and agencies that has demonstrated the capability, the skill sets, and, you know, to be able to make it happen for our people. Madam, I will continue my discourse in the next round. Thank you. Senator Fudiman. Thank you, Madam President. I want to begin by extending best wishes to all parliamentarians, yourself and staff of parliament, and, of course, to all sentlosions for the next few weeks. I hope that each one of us finds some time to celebrate and enjoy some good cheer with all of those during this festive season. Madam President, we are here today to deliberate on the resolution to borrow US$100 million, EC$270 million, as worded in the resolution from the Export-Import Bank of the Republic of China, Taiwan by the St. Lucia A&C Post Authority for the purpose of financing the Huanora International Airport. And, of course, as we've heard, that loan that will be guaranteed through the government or by the government of St. Lucia. When I listened earlier on to the leader of government business, incidentally, he seemed to have almost forgotten that he had to give some kind of briefing on the resolution after it was read. I am not surprised why he actually took a seat, because he probably knew that there was nothing to be briefed on, or he didn't have much substance. So he spent the next hour also trying to find an explanation. And having listened to the rest of the colleagues who have gone before me, particularly the two independent senators, my colleague Senator Mangal, and just listened to Senator Belrose, the minister for, well, these days, I don't want to say too much there. So just see my colleague Senator Belrose. It is very clear that there are quite a few reasons why he may have been concerned about giving us a bit of a brief on the significance or the reason why we should borrow. I also listened to my dear former schoolmate and Senator Mangal in his very pumped-up and energetic discourse earlier. I was reminded of an SLP candidate on the platform of the Southeast two elections ago. And the only thing, Madam President, is this time he was speaking from the other side of his mouth. And I had to wonder why some of those things that were being said to be reminded me so much of that time. But let's leave that and let's move on. We are here to borrow 100 million US dollars. And in the low house, I think it was very deliberate that everybody who spoke on the government side continued to say 100 million dollars. But I want to remind all of us and anybody who is paying attention to this debate that it is 270 or 270 there about million EC dollars. And perhaps from time to time somebody who's tuning in keeps hearing 100 million and they don't realize it's US dollars. This is very important. That just goes to show that there is a very significant sum of money. And because of that, there are certain things that we expect any responsible government, any responsible ministry or minister of finance to provide justification, detail and information that will not have every speaker except those on the government side today to be asking all the questions that have been asked. I believe that that significant sum of borrowing that has been referred to as almost record borrowing in one sitting of the house required a lot better from the government than what we have heard so far. So, Madam President, I want to ask, I want to also say that with all the noise that we've heard this morning, all the tapping of the table and all this, you know, I am no bit wiser as far as the information, the critical information that is required about this borrowing. Thankfully, we have an independent part or segment of this honorable house and the independent senators raised some pertinent questions and issues that enlightened us and allowed for probably a more constructive discourse thereafter. But without that, it would have been a sad day for the parliament that we would have come here and approved borrowing of so much money without proper discourse on the terms and information that is required. Going forward, Madam President, I want to say that the airport development as we've heard before in our country has never been an issue of whether or not it should happen. I think all of us have understood that we must develop our ports, both seaports and airports. And it must be improved. There must be improvement. Where we part in terms of our opinion is how it's been done. Before this government came into office in 2012, the previous government had embarked on a method that has been ventilated. I don't want to spend much time on the PPP argument. There was a method that was being approached or taken to achieve this. But we both agree that the goal of developing the airport was important. We have issues with the manner in which it is being done. And I think that it is very clear from all the discussion that has taken place, whether you're a layman or you're an informed economist, it is very clear that there is something about this method that the government is taking that is more than meets the eye. Why is it that we talk about best practices? The best practices by countries like England, where you have the Heathrow International Airport run entirely by a private entity. You have Jamaica just entering a PPP agreement, a partnership to build the airport. You have the Bahamas and we heard about Barbados. I don't want to go too much into Barbados because they have their own issues. But there are models in the region that have suggested to us that there is merit in using the public-private partnership. There is merit. It's not just a fancy term that we're just brandishing around. Why is it that our government refuses to consider this method? And is hell-bent on going out there to borrow $270 million guaranteeing slasper to do this project? Madam President, that is why we have the issue. And I want to ask, what about the, because of the sum of money, and I think one of the senators who had spoken before made reference to it, with that sum of money being borrowed, why isn't there any evidence of competitive bidding? We're not hearing anything about that. Is it going to be a direct award? And is there somebody making a fresh start again or something like that? What is it about this thing that we must go and borrow? We have to ask because we're becoming very suspicious of this. Madam President, I have asked these questions before, and let me ask them again. What is our focus and priority? Our overall focus and priority as a government? We have two ministers in this honorable house who are members of the Senate who are responsible for very sensitive, significant ministry departments, government departments, where we have seen serious concerns being raised. The Ministry of National Security responsible for crime or prevention of crime and other related matters. The Ministry of Health are headed by two of my colleagues in this honorable house. Madam President, what is the priority? We are borrowing all this money that is going into infrastructure, building things, building things, building structures, and throughout the entire debate. I don't know if anybody picked it up, but I have followed this debate in the Senate from the lower house and up to today. We have not heard one single pronouncement made with reference to crime or healthcare. Let me put it this way, alleviation in this specific borrowing move. Madam President, I would want to think that if we're going to make that move and go out there in a single sitting of the house to borrow all that money, I would have liked to know that I cannot speak for them because it's their responsibility to do so in the cabinet, that my colleagues responsible for those two departments would have had a bit of a bite from this spy. Whereas, yes, it is specifically for one project, but before you go and borrow all that money and raise your debt to the GDP ratio, you would have to look at other areas of priority that need to be looked at. But it seems that these things are not priority, and so we have other things that we prefer to do. I also want to ask, Madam President, what about the situations that we have been lamenting about or we've been complaining about that need immediate attention? Upon assuming office, the government did give its assurance that there are certain things that would be getting immediate attention, immediate relief would be coming in certain areas. And one of them, of course, was in the reduction of value added tax and a few others in healthcare and education. Well, Madam President, instead of going out there and giving priority to making that, we call it an investment, but I think it's really a disaster of borrowing that sum of money, how about taking care of the situation at Arthur Lewis? We now have a situation where students writing the exams are now finding that they've been robbed when they get off the bus and being told that there is no money to increase security at Arthur Lewis. Madam President, how about taking care of the mold situation at Barbano Secondary for our teachers and students to feel more comfortable? How about the repair of the or the construction of the Form 3 block at Miku Secondary that has been there for the last year and a half? And the Prime Minister in his deliberation last week mentioned the situation at Tirushig where there was a fire. And you have lots of other examples where we could have made priority. But we prefer to focus on borrowing monies where some people are happy smiling and continue to enjoy part of the benefit. Madam President, despite the, and I want to come to one of the points I made about issues in this country that should be priority, despite the issues that we've heard in the last few weeks, we've had a spike in the increases in the number of homicides, we've had concerns, even the police commissioner has called all officers of leave immediately to try to deal with the social problem, the crime problem that we have. And it definitely tells us that there is a problem. We can't hide from it. I think these are areas that need attention immediately. Of course we can develop our efforts. I will never say that we shouldn't and we shouldn't spend money to do so. But these things can be done strategically over a period of time. There are certain things that need immediate attention right now. And instead of the panic that people have to deal with and hearing of people, you know, on the floors in hospitals and those things, what is it we're doing in terms of priority? So Madam President, I think it is time for us to decide what is priority in this country and pay attention to things that are more urgent, that are more critical. I'll move on Madam President and make a point regarding the relationship between trying to grow an economy through borrowing. As we have all agreed, every government will borrow. We know that. Every government will borrow. This government has said that there will be revenue streams. Well, let's wait to see that. But one thing is for sure. If you want to grow your economy by borrowing, what we have found at this formula has been showed to fail. It does not work. Eventually what you have is that you plunge your country into debt and even if you have some nice projects to show up front, it redounds to continuous burdens on your taxpayers over a period of time. So that formula clearly does not work. You want to grow your economy, you go ahead and you borrow a heap of money and you show up front. But then in the next two decades, you are saddled with burdens of debt. Now, I remembered early on in the set when I say the set I mean after the government, the new government came in that we decided that we were going to cut that by two and a half percent. And immediately, Madam President, we did that and we had to find ourselves going back to borrow $55 million within the first year. And it's exactly the same amount that we give up. And here we come again. Perhaps if we had kept that $55 million, we would have had to borrow $55 million less in this specific motion. But we're giving up money to fulfill promises that we made on platforms. And now we come back to the House to borrow huge sums of money to try to save face and do big projects. And I think I heard that the previous government couldn't manage big projects. Madam President, we have a situation where we have a government that has found itself strapped because of the commitments that it has tried to make and cannot fulfill that all it has left to do is to go out there and try to impress the electorate by breaking ground and starting some new projects. Just making sure that some big things are said. You know, we're going to build an airport and we're going to do those big things and we're going to bring investment to the South, right? In the middle of the second year of government. Before it's too late to try to create an impression in the mind of the electorate that we are going to deliver something big. And to do so, we have forgotten about the terms and conditions. And I think that was alluded to earlier. We have a number of conditions that we have not paid attention to in this borrowing that have not come out. I heard the leader of government business and we're still waiting for that information. I hope it comes in his rebuttal. We have not gotten information regarding the repayment terms as we have heard. We don't know about the cash flow and other critical issues related to the borrowing. But we're going out there to create this big impression that we can manage big projects. We can manage large sums of borrowing and large sums of money that the previous government couldn't do. But what we have not told the people of St. Lucia is that our grandchildren, our great-grandchildren will be saddled with that debt. And as we heard in the repayment terms, there is a lot of information that has not been divulged in this honorable house and that the average St. Lucia does not know when it comes to the terms of this borrowing. And I think it is important and incumbent upon us, particularly the government, to provide that information to the people, to this honorable house, to allow the house and the members here to speak to it and to provide solutions with the critical information that we require. So, Madam President, while I would have liked to have something like we did with the Child Protection Bill and some other bills, unlike what the government has tried to suggest, that the opposition opposes for opposing sake, that is not true, Madam President. I have sat in this honorable house and said, I, and the eyes I've had it, and we have supported motions and bills in this honorable house. So that is not true. The Child Protection Bill, we supported it, just recently we did. And we know we support certain things because we can see the merit in it and the benefit for our country. So we're not a government, an opposition that comes here to oppose for opposing sake. That's not true. But Madam President, when it comes to situations where you have, you're going to land your country in that kind of predicament, that you are coming to the house to get approval to take in one go to borrow $270 million. And there are so many questions being asked about the conditions, the terms, the repayment of this loan. We must, we must be careful. We cannot just sit there and agree. No. That will be very irresponsible of us as an opposition. And so, Madam President, having said that, I want to echo the sentiments of my colleagues and see that this opposition will not be giving support to this bill as to this resolution as presented. We support development. We support any airports being improved in any country, but not under these terms that are presented to us. And not with the limited amount of information that this government has come to present. That is sketchy, that is suspicious, that is fishy, and we shall not stand here and just support it blindly. No. So, Madam President, I want to wrap up because I know we're going to have a long day. I want to wrap up by saying this. We have a government that is in panic mode, a government that does not have the answers, no clear policy as to where we're going, and so we are now frantically and recklessly borrowing money, unprecedented sums of money with all kinds of questions to be asked about the terms to try to appease the electorate of St. Lucia in the middle of a term of office with all kinds of fairy tale ideas to see whether people will believe once more. But people, I can tell our members once beaten twice shy. Our people have learned, and they have learned very quickly. And so, Madam President, while we do this, we are only plunging our country into further debt. And as we heard from a previous speaker this morning, after all of this is done, St. Lucia's will have to be plunged into a debt burden of about 850 or so million dollars that will be paid or will have to be paid by my grandchildren, your grandchildren, and generations to come. And for this reason, this opposition will not support this motion, this resolution, and we hope that in rebuttal, we will at least get some further details, pertinent information about the terms and conditions of this irresponsible act of the government. I thank you, Madam President. Thank you, Madam President. I rise to echo the sentiments that you expressed earlier, and some of my fellow senators were spoken before me, that I wish all senators and the citizens of St. Lucia a merry Christmas and a happy new year. Although it may not be merry for me at Christmas, but the Lord is good, and I accept how it has been played out. Madam President, I was not going to speak on this motion, because I think it is quite clear what's the intention of the government and what it means for the people of St. Lucia. I must say that I was very impressed with the contributions of the two independent senators, and like I told my fellow senator, I got a lesson in business management and banking, and I'm very appreciative of this. But in her presentation, she made a number of points, character, ability to pay, collateral conditions, capital, and so on. And one of these main things that the first one she mentioned was the character of government, that government has never, never reneged on its ability or defaulted on its repayments and loans, and I think that is a very, very important point that you made. Senator Opposite talked about the increase in crime and the homicides and that some money should have been placed with the Ministry of Home Affairs and national security. I want to tell the senator that a lot of studies have been done on persons' attribute crime to lack of housing, lack of employment, and a number of other issues, poverty, and so on. But there it is, this government is going into a project where a number of solutions will be employed, gainfully employed. We will try to change the drift where persons are leaving their districts and coming to castries and overcrowding castries, and thereby causing this malaise of housing, especially the central castries area. So persons are now going to be gainfully employed and moving back to their residence in Viewfort, Sozel, Labry, and the environment, and the environments. But there's one point that the Honourable Senator failed to talk about when we talk about homicides, and it's the impact report. And we must go back to the genesis of this impact report. Yeah. What caused it? The ORC, yes. There was the police doing a fantastic job on persons' commission crime, and police got St. Lucia to a stage where St. Lucia was safe to walk the streets of castries and the environments. They were safe, they were happy. But what did you do? Just as you are doing today, trying to show the government in a bad light, went out there and said so many things about United Workers' Party. And then the Commissioner of Police came out in his book and said, this was not a government-organised project. It was a project of the police. That was the technique to deal with it. Now today our police officers are afraid to even take action because of persons on the other side. So don't blame anybody. You must take some of the blame for what is happening in this country, for your reckless statements. You must take... So at the end of the day, we will learn, we will know. You also talked about a government not following through on projects that have been made. We talked about, we paid for a fire appliance in Vifort, 1.5 million. Yes, the St. Lucia Labour Party did in fact put 1.5 million and we put the extra 1.5 million because it was necessary to have that fire tender at the UNR international airport. Water treatment plant in Dennery. We paid it, we continued. It's now operational and we have now come to the house to borrow more money to do the second phase. But you all took the praise for it, but we are doing it. The Bridging Canaries, Madam President, the Bridging Canaries, we completed it. It's a good project, we completed it. Water treatment in Canaries. Only last week we opened that water treatment. We are now going to Souffre to give water. Okay? The square, we can answer the square. There it was that you were doing a square. There was money allocated for the square. Poses worked for six or seven months and never got paid. Never got paid. Obviously, they caught track of it. Come to an end. It had to come to an end. But we are going to continue the square. The square will be finished. And that is the problem that you have because come the next, come 2020, all the projects, Madam President, will be completed. Minister, remember that you are speaking to me and not the opposition. Yes, Madam President, I think I do mention the... So, there it is, Madam President. We had a previous government that borrowed over 30 million US dollars for a fly-by-night company called Frenwell. Did Saint-Russians know about it? You didn't ever come to the house of Assembly for Guarantee? That company did not even have assets in Saint-Russia. Didn't even have assets, Madam President, but yet still a government could come and give them 30 million US, a Trinidad company. Today, we have been very transparent. We are coming to the house and we are telling you this is what we are going to be doing with the money. Where we got the money from? Who is going to be managing the money? Slasper has proven over the years to be a viable entity. They have proven it. We borrowed money to do the extension of the... The both. Again, when we came to borrow the money, they said it was reckless spending. Today, we have the mega-ships buffing at our point, sir, of it. That is progress because we know when we take those loans, we can manage it and at the end of the day, Madam President, it becomes the benefit of solutions. But, Madam President, this opposition do not want this government to succeed and any project that we bring here, they will oppose it. Even if it means, even if it means Madam President, and if you notice what is happening, this government has Saint-Russia at heart. We are not doing things in the constituencies of the government. We are doing things which is represented by three members of the opposition because we recognize this is the new frontier. This is where Saint-Russia has to go. So it doesn't matter whether it has been represented by the opposition members. We know for a fact that the people in the south of this island have suffered enough and we must give them some relief. Madam President, let them beat me because every time they make a point, I will respond because we have the answers. They have no answers. Madam President, when you listen to Senator Gibyan from Mikud putting on, every day, if you take hands out, every day he comes out molding the school as if mold comes overnight. And if he is studying his papers, he will see that there is money that we are going to borrow later on to fix schools. To fix schools. The Labour Party was in power, Madam President, and asked them how much money they used to give to the renovation of schools. Nothing, nothing. Every year. Thank you Madam President. I really don't need any protection. I can handle myself. Even the A-Level College, Sir Arthur Lewis Community College, if you look at the allocations made to that entity every year by the Saint-Russia Labour Party, it was going down and down and down. All what they were doing was just paying for salaries. That's all they were doing and in two years you expect us to come there and transform Sir Arthur Lewis. But we are going to do it because our young people will be taken care of. So we're going to do it. You talk about St. Jude's. You will see St. Jude's finished in 2019. You will see that. And according to the people when we were at our campaign, you'll pay. That's going to happen. It will happen. To go anywhere, Madam President, you must be bold in the things that you're going to do. You must be bold. Sir Bronson is now going to space and going to be paying, people, persons are paying 60,000 US just to go to space. That is innovation. That is the way you make money. That's why he has so much money because he thinks out of the box. But we want to do everything the same little way. Tiputik mentality. That's what we have. So that is why they can never finish any project they start. None at all. None at all. And we have to come and fix it for them. So we're going to show them, Madam President, that we're going to start UNR international report. We're going to finish it. We're going to start St. Jude's. We're going to finish it. You will see the road that work as the independent senator talked about castries is now clogged. And we are going to be doing the bypass road from Grosily to January. So you will see these things happening. A new solution, a new vision. Okay. Kenningomics doesn't work. That is why we have Dr. Ubalas in the Ministry of Finance. New thinking. New energy. You know, and the senator of leader of government opposition business is correct. That PPP is good. But let's not fool ourselves. Why is it good for one set of people or one project? It's not good for another project. If you are going into a PPP, you should analyze, Madam President, what our leader talked about. You do a sort analysis, your strength, your weaknesses, your opportunities and so on. Okay. And then you look at it. Why do you want to give away your airport for 30 years in this era of terrorism? That you as a police officer in charge of your national security that you can go into the airport. You have to beg somebody permission to go and arrest a criminal on your airport. What are we saying, Madam President? What are you saying? We have, we have places in St. Lucia that I'm like, but I do know the police can just go in there. They have to get permission to go in there. And then you have thousands of people coming into our country. Point of order, Madam President. Well, we're going to have almost half a million people coming from our day. We don't even know it is. For the 6A, Madam President, the member is misrepresenting the house. No such PPP will restrict any police officer from going on to the police, going on to the airport. That is implied in the contribution from the member. He needs to provide evidence without his funds and that is not the case. But Madam President, I've given examples. We have the free zone at V4. Police officers can't just go in there. You must get permission to go in there. They cannot prevent you from going. But you have to advance notice, must be given if you give a private entity to run your airport before you can enter that airport. Even now, where is being run by Slasper. When I as a minister, Madam President has to go in there. Slasper has to give me permission to go inside of there. What are you talking about? Senator Henry, it seems to me that the minister is providing live examples. And anything else has been a suggestion. But he's definitely giving live examples. And so I will let him proceed. Thank you very much, Madam President. And most of the ministers and persons who travel and are able to go into the VIP lounge will tell you that only Slasper can allow you to go up there. They have the key. As a minister, you cannot go into there. Again, Minister, you've made the point several times and I'd like us to continue with the substance of the debate. Thank you very much, Madam President. So again, I stand here to support the motion. And I can guarantee solutions that I have been fortunate as a minister to travel to Antigua. We just came from Matnik, Guadalupe. And if you see the standard of the airports that are there compared to Saint Lucia, I feel ashamed when I land at the airport. I'm ashamed. I'm ashamed. And we need to get to that standard if Antigua can do it without a PPP, because they recognize the national importance of that airport. We in Saint Lucia can do it. And I guarantee the solutions that we are going to deliver a brand new sparkling airport for them in the future. I thank you. Honorable Minister for Health and Wellness. Thank you, Madam President. I want to wish every one of us, my fellow senators, a very merry Christmas and a happy New Year. I would also like to extend that to the entire country. And I do sincerely hope that we have a wonderful Christmas. I too did not intend to say anything. But I will send a challenge, Madam President, from the senators on the other side. Of course, I fully support this bill and I cannot wait this motion. And I cannot wait for us to fix our airport so that I will stop being so ashamed of this facility that we have there that we call an airport. Madam President, I do not know. I know that my fellow leader of government business spoke about its the Christmas season. I am starting to wonder about that because I'm starting to think this is the silly season of all that I have heard from the lower house on this bill. And in this house today, I'm starting to think we are in the silly season because I cannot believe that anyone would not understand the terms and conditions in this bill. It is clearly stated, although I think that people are getting confused by the fact that it is saying at the end that the terms and conditions proposed by the Export-Import Bank of the Republic of China Taiwan are accepted. But these are the terms and conditions proposed and people are asking for them. They are right there. These are the terms and conditions proposed. Do you all want me to read it for you all? You all cannot read it. Madam President, it is clearly stated here that terms and conditions are here. And I believe we can all read. Yes. There is a semicolon after each. And as you keep going down, you see these are the same terms and conditions. Okay. So, Madam President, but I find it very difficult to accept that the same people who would accept to borrow $1.6 billion over a 30-year period are now struggling and saying they are not going to support this government borrowing $100 million to put towards our airport. I am baffled, Madam President. I am really baffled. Now, I heard my fellow Senators speak about we are not putting money in healthcare. This morning, Madam President, one of the statutory instruments presented here, number 98 of 2018, speaks to us borrowing $20 million U.S. dollars to put into primary care. It's right here today. Leader of government business presented it. So, I do not know SI number 98. I do not know, Madam President, whether this is mischief or whether it is that some people cannot read or they do not listen. Because we read it this morning. It is right there, healthcare. Number 98. So, Madam President, I must say that this is mischief. These are people who are hell bent on creating mischief. And every minute it is always health, health, healthcare. Is it today that you all realize St. Jude Hospital was not finished? We found it that way and we are going to finish it. We will finish it. Yes, we will do it. Madam President, OKEU, when this government took office, Madam President, OKEU was not completed as yet. The kitchen was not done. There was no kitchen. There was no cafeteria incomplete. And the laundry room had not even started. That is the OKEU that I keep hearing people talking and talking about how OKEU was ready. Why can't you all open it? Can you open a hospital without a laundry room? Can you open it without a kitchen, Madam President? So, we came in and we are doing it. We have opened it, although we have not completely opened it. Out of care services is offered right now at OKEU. If you have to go and see a doctor at the hospital now, you go to OKEU. It is open. I do not know how you can see a doctor in it if it's not open. If you want to go to dialysis, all our dialysis patients have been dialized, Madam President, at OKEU. Physiotherapy. It is at OKEU. So, what is it we are talking about? The government is not opening OKEU. You all made a big fanfare to name the hospital. I'm President Daira. That is the point of order 37E, 371. Whereas, yes. I have not heard your order, Ms. Stani. Point of order 37E, the contents of the speech. Yes, 37E, 371. This is not an E. I am looking at it. This is 37E. Madam President, I am saying whereas in my deliberations I did mention healthcare, but I think for the last five minutes I have been listening to a lecture at OKEU, which is not part of the motion. I think the point was made that there was a healthcare focus and now the member is going on with OKEU and it's not a health lecture. Minister, you've made your point. Please proceed with the substantive debate. Thank you, Madam President. I'm guided by you, but when people say that we are not spending money on healthcare, this is all about spending money. Building the kitchen, finishing OKEU, that is about spending money on healthcare. That is the point I was trying to make. And we are spending more money. This year we have spent more money on giving medical assistance, Madam President, than any other year. This year and the year isn't, we still have a few more days to go. So I do not know where it is coming from when people talk about healthcare, healthcare not spending money on healthcare. So I want to say, Madam President, that sometimes we may suffer amnesia, but then again with our healthcare services and us beefing up healthcare, we will take care of all of these issues as well. I wish to say, Madam President, that the little bit of money that we are borrowing here, 100 million dollars, to me, should be absolutely no issue because our Prime Minister has guaranteed and of course we made the statements over and over in our campaign. This is a campaign promise. We will not borrow money unless there is a revenue stream. And Madam President, we as Senbushan people, we have to try and be more honest with ourselves. It is not good enough that we repeat statements and put it the way that we want it to sound without saying the statement and keeping it in context. We always kept saying, we are going, we will not borrow money unless there is a revenue stream. And in the case of the airport, the revenue streams are clear. Leader of government business has explained it. It has been explained to deaf in the lower house. The revenue streams are very, very clear. So, Madam President, without further ado, I want to say that I support this bill, this motion, 100 percent. I know that my cabinet, my government is doing everything they can to develop the south. We know that that place was like a desert. And now we are starting to see activity in the south. The saddest thing, Madam President, is about this bill is that this is activity that we are creating in the former prime minister's constituency in Viewfort, for the people of Viewfort, for the people of the south. And you find that there is so much opposition that causes you to ask, why? Is it that we have designed, this former government has designed programs to keep the people in the south poor? And because we are coming now and changing the modus operandi, changing the investments that you are seeing in the south, not little handouts like before. Big projects, Madam President, projects that will make a difference in the lives of the people of St. Lucia. Is that why we are getting so much opposition that we still believe only one set of people should be rich and well off? That is going to make the people of the south too comfortable? And therefore, we are afraid. The begging mentality, Madam President, is what this motion is going to address. We have to help our people to stand up on their own two feet, help our country to grow, to develop. And this is what this motion is about, Madam President. Therefore, in wishing everybody again Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, I stand 100% behind this motion. Honourable Leader of Government Business. Madam President, when we came here this morning, my fellow Senators on this side came up to with almost an agreement that we would not prolong the Senate today. We believe, Madam President, that the motion before us would have at least given the supports of the opposition. But in the usual style, the usual style, Madam President, of opposing everything that is good, they oppose. Madam President, we have not come into this house for 2017 and 2018 and part of 2016 to present any motion where the opposition has supported. Not one motion. Motion. I am talking about money bills, money stuff. Madam President, it's a very sad day that we are here today to guarantee, Madam President, boring by the St. Lucia A&C Authority. We are guaranteeing, that's the key word here, Madam President, we are guaranteeing, which means, Madam President, that although the liability, it is contingent liability on the books of government, it's contingent, in other words, Madam President, if slasher fails, which is very unlikely, Madam President, if the default and the loan, therefore the liability is on the, becomes that of the government. But it makes it look, the opposition makes it look like the government is the one boring the money. We are not boring money, Madam President, we are guaranteeing, this is as far as I will say, and as far as this is concerned, Madam President, because it seems to be echoed on the opposition side that we are boring money. We are not boring money, not boring money. Now, Madam President, in terms of the rebots, in fact, this morning, again, I, the leader of opposition business, I actually made a joke of him and I said to him that it's my understanding that he's, he's closer home, he's coming home, and he pretended that he doesn't understand what I'm saying and I say, which home are you referring to? I refer to him as the, I refer to him to the story in the Bible that speaks of the prodigal son, who wanted a way, things were nice at his home, Madam President, but he decided to wander away and and it is my understanding that he is coming back home. So I'm not to show Madam President by telling him that, he believed that he was already home, because he spoke like he was home, because like he was on the government side, Madam President, because the things that we push and we say and we talk about on this side as far as privatization is concerned, Madam President, he spoke of these things. I was very surprised, Madam President. So he gave a lot of support to a lot of the things that we have said in the past, Madam President, as far as the privatization of entities that can do the work that government is doing. Basically, and of course, Madam President, there was talk about the PPP and how he praised the PPP, Madam President, conveniently, conveniently. So I'm waiting for the time when we will be coming to talk about OKEU or any PPP project. All I have to do, Madam President, for presentation for the Senate, is to go to Hansard and quote everything the Leader of Opposition Business have said, because he seems to be an advocate for PPP. Madam President, in support of PPPs now, the opposition looks to other jurisdictions that have undertaken the PPP or the privatization of the airports. And interestingly, Madam President, the Leader of Opposition Business, he spoke of Barbados as the example of a country that is undertaking the privatization of the airports. But, Madam President, Barbados has absolutely no choice. Barbados is currently under an IMF program. And that's one of the conditions that was placed on them, and they had to agree to it. And thankfully, Madam President, that we won the elections in 2016 or else would have been just like Barbados with no choice but to privatize our airports. But we are in a position now, Madam President, where we don't have that, we have an option, and that option is to run and operate our own international airports. Madam President, it is very sad also, Madam President, that the last administration of the United Workers Party had put in place the collection of an airport development tax, or airport development or airport departure tax. I think it took effect around 2010, 2010, thereabouts. And as soon as the Labour Party came in, right after a few months, less than a year, that ADT tax was repealed. And in the coffers of government, Madam President, in a lockbox, we already had in the region about $53 million to $54 million, Madam President. I have absolutely no idea why the Minister of Finance, the former Prime Minister of St Lucia, at that time, did that. Because, Madam President, it was money being collected without affecting, I mean, we increased the taxes, the departure taxes, it had absolutely no effect on visitor arrivals. But yet still, Madam President, you went ahead and removed it. And if we had done so, Madam President, we would have not been in the house today, borrowing such, the 100 million US dollars for the redevelopment of the Euronewra International Airport. Now, Madam President, I did a little research. And there are about 17,678 international airports worldwide, 17,678 international airports. Out of this amount, only 15 percent are privatized. 15 percent, Madam President. If it is so good, why only 15 percent? If it is so good, why only 15 percent of the 17,678 international airports are privatized? And, Madam President, and mind you, most of these that are privatized, privatized, Madam President, is because they were under certain control and they had absolutely no choice. I don't know of any, and going back to what my fellow senators said earlier, because of high security concerns. I don't believe that there is one privatized airport in the United States, not one. So, Madam President, I know a lot was asked by the two senators, independent senators, and the questions and the questions they asked, very, very good questions. And excellent questions. But, Madam President, I need to remind the two senators, independent senators, that there is a process by which such questions that they ask can come to the Senate. They can ask questions, but you can forward the questions to the Clerk of Parliament, which will be forwarded to me as the leader of government business, and then I'll provide these answers at the sitting of the Senate. Because we are here, Madam President, we are here to present this resolution, this resolution, and asking for terms and conditions of the loan and stuff like that. That's not for the parliament. That's not for the Senate. We don't talk about this here. Finance, acts, resolution of parliament, to authorize, to authorize the Minister for Finance to guarantee, boring, by the St. Lucia A&C for the Authority to finance the Euronoa International Airport Development. So, coming here, Madam President, and asking about who would be the contractor, who would be beating. Madam President, this is not the place for this, the Senate. It's not. The only responsibility of the government here is to guarantee the boring. So, if, Madam President, if these questions had, had, were sent to the Clerk and the Clerk sent it to me, I would have made it my duty to ensure that these answers or the questions would have been answered and be presented to the Senate today. So, that's the process, Madam President, and I'm hoping that the independent senators and some of the questions that the opposition Senate also ask do require such process. So, Madam President, independent, the independent Senator Francis, she spoke about we have, we have boring, no, we have unprecedented boring, unprecedented. And she quoted a number, Madam President, of a one billion dollars. She said, we have come in this house so far for the year and borrow over a billion dollars. Madam President, I need to correct this. I need to correct this. I need to correct this. Not this time around, I said over this period. Over a billion. Let me tell you why, Madam President, this is not the case because this, the current budget in which we operate is a 1.4 something or 1.5 billion dollar budget, 1.5 billion dollar budget. And out of that 1.5 billion dollar budget, Madam President, the recurrent revenues, the recurrent revenues is 1.1 billion dollars, 1.4, 1.1 billion dollars, which means, Madam President, the difference between the recurrent revenues and that of the total budget is what we have to go out to seek. And there are various ways of funding the difference. And that difference, Madam President, most times is through loans. So the maximum amount we can actually, we came, in fact, I believe we, in terms of grants and loans and bonds, it amounted to about the 400 million dollars, Madam President. So there's no way we have come to this house to borrow beyond what we were appropriated for in the budget. No way, Madam President. If we do so, we have to do it through a supplementary budget, but we have not come to this house to seek additional borrowings beyond what we were authorized through the appropriations bill. So it's no way, Madam President. There are times we come here, madam, we, there are times we come here to, to authorize the rule of our debt. We come here sometime, Madam President, for the, to, to, to renew our overdraft facility. So I'm not to show, Madam President, if the independent senator added these numbers and make it look like we have come to this house and borrow over a hundred, a one billion dollars. So I wanted to make this clear, this is not the case. Madam President, I will not answer or respond to every comment that was made or contribution of the, the members opposite. For example, when Senator Gideon spoke about, he tried to relate borrowing with salary increase. I don't know what, what, what class he learned this from, Madam President. Where, because we're borrowing more, we have to give increased salaries. I don't know that, I don't know what relationship is. I don't know how to relate these two. And there seems to be, Madam President, a common theme emanating from the opposition. Whenever we come to borrow money here for something, they speak of something else. And interestingly, Madam President, they spoke of healthcare. And I'm happy that the, my fellow senator was able to address that, that, that, that concern that it was raised. But going back, Madam President, to the, to the contribution of the leader of opposition business, where he praised the PPP model. And as I've said, Madam President, this morning, that there are times when the government must go through a PPP, must. But in this case here, Madam President, when we can operate our own international airport, when we are able to finance or contribute to the financing of the airport, we don't see the need for it. But the last administration believed that there was a need for that. And therefore, Madam President, based on the report that was prepared by the IFC, that's a briefing of their assessment. I want to read, Madam President, I'll make this a document on how it's, Madam President. I just want to show you, Madam President, where they gave some scenarios, or two scenarios. The scenario for, if we do not go through a PPP, or on a serious scenario, if we go with a PPP. Just some highlights, Madam President. And before you do so, could you tell me from what you're citing? It's a Renewer International Airport PPP Reserve Pride Determination, and that is May 2016. And it was actually written by the International Finance Corporation World Bank Group. So, Madam President, if... It should be made up a document of the House before you quote from it, unless there is consensus that it can be quoted now. So, Madam President, I can make it a document of the House if they agreed after the presentation. Senator Henry, can I have a response, please? Madam President, I can give it up, but I can speak freely from... I can wait. I can speak freely, Madam President. I'll put it away, Madam President. I will not speak from it. I will not speak from it. That's fine. That's fine. That's fine. But if we had gone the route of the PPP, Madam President, as we all know, the International Airport would have been given up for 30 years. 30 years. We had to guarantee, Madam President, we had to guarantee internal rate of return of 15 percent, Madam President. 15 percent. The concessionaire, the private entity taking up the controls and operations of the hospital would have had to have at minimum, Madam President, 15 percent rate of return. Minimum. Minimum. Madam President, it also says that staffs would have been paid or the government pays corporate income tax. Corporate income tax. Now, Madam President, I did a few courses, one or two courses in college. Accounting, rather. And I know there are certain loopholes that one can undertake to show that they have not made any profit. And I would guarantee that, Madam President, that have this been in the hands and controlled of the foreign entity that would have received any corporate taxes from that entity. Because they are ways of cooking the books. They are ways of cooking the books. So if there are no profits, Madam President, means that we will not be able to receive any corporate taxes. So there is no guarantee here, Madam President. No guarantee. So we have left this, if we had gone the routes of the PPP, would have left this with a bit of the mercy of that entity, Madam President, at the mercy of them. Also, Madam President, also, Madam President, there is no guarantee, Madam President, that the current employees or slasper employees would have been the ones who have been employed at our air and sea ports, Madam President. There's no guarantee, Madam President, because if they are the ones running the affairs of the airport, they are the ones in charge of management and management makes decisions, Madam President. And if management sees fitting that you have one employee, that's management's decision. So, Madam President, you mean for 30 years? For 30 years, Madam President, an economic and economic entity like our international airport would have been surrendered to these individuals, Madam President? If it's so good, why can't we have it ourselves, Madam President? If it's so good for them, if it's good for them, it's good for us, our solutions. Another point I want to make, Madam President, another point I want to make, Madam President, that the debt financing under the arrangement, the debt financing under the arrangement, Madam President, was 8% for 11 years. 8% for 11 years, Madam President. So, the entity would have gone out there, take a loan at 8%, and they would have only been responsible for that loan for just 11 years, only 11 years, out of what, the 30 years. So, after, Madam President, they have settled the debt. For 19 years, Madam President, they would have been making money on the backs of the people of St. Lucia. For 19 years, Madam President, Madam President, and this is all that have happened in the south of the country, in the south of the country. Madam President, what we have presented here, this model of financing, it is the best model, Madam President, that would have been presented to the Senate today. The best model. Now, Madam President, their proposed model would have given government a security charge of what? $13 per passenger. $13. $13. You know what happened, Madam President? With our current model, Slasper gets to keep its current $25 US dollars per passenger. That is not touched. That is not touched. Slasper will still be able to maintain its operations, Madam President, with the current $25 US dollars per passenger. It's not like Madam President, that Slasper has to mingle or interfere with its current revenue stream to take care of the financing of this redevelopment. The government has set aside $35 US dollars to finance the redevelopment of that project. There's more to it, Madam President. There's more to it. Another benefit, Madam President, another benefit not directly related to the redevelopment of the HIA but also, Madam President, because of the increase in the departure tax, we will have, Madam President, $10 US per passenger that will go into a sinking fund, a sinking fund. And I believe, Madam President, I have explained what a sinking fund is, the history behind a sinking fund. It is all about a ship type of insurance for ships. So if a ship sinks, Madam President, then you have a sinking fund for that sinking ship. But, Madam President, as I've said before, when the last administration came in, they found a huge sinking fund. And unfortunately, the sinking fund has sunk. And it is my understanding, Madam President, that we have about $12 million in the sinking fund as we speak. That's how we do it. And, Madam President, there's more to it, you know. There's more to it. So, Madam President, $35 US dollars for the airport redevelopment. You have Slasper still maintaining its $25 US per passenger for its operations. You have the $10, Madam President, for the sinking fund. Then you have $28 that will be going to the Ministry of Finance. No, Madam President, had we surrendered our airport to a foreign entity, we'd have lost all of these benefits. We would have lost all of these benefits, Madam President. That is why, Madam President, I believe that the model that we have presented, presenting here today, Madam President, is the best model for the people of St. Lucia. So, Madam President, I believe I have touched on the most important comments made by both the members, the senators from the opposition, and that of the opposition. I do thank you, Madam President. Senators, the question is that Parliament authorize the Minister for Finance to guarantee a loan in the amount of $100 million US dollars from the Export-Import Bank of the Republic of China, Taiwan by the St. Lucia Air and Seaports Authority for the purpose of financing the Havanaura International Airport Redevelopment Project. Be it further resolved that A, the loan is repayable over a period of 20 years from the date of the first disbursement of the loan, inclusive of a five-year grace period. B, the interest is payable at a rate of the sixth month London Interbank offered rate plus 1.5% per annum. C, the loan payments shall commence after the grace period of five years has expired. D, the interest shall be paid in the amount of US $2,195,000 semi-annually during the grace period and thereafter at the sixth month London Interbank offered rate. E, the terms and conditions proposed by the Export-Import Bank of the Republic of China, Taiwan are accepted. I now put the question, as many as are of that opinion say aye, as many as are of the contrary opinion say no. I think the ayes have it, the ayes have it. Honourable Leader of Government Business. Madam President, I beg to move the following motion standing in my name, Finance Administration Act, Resolution of Parliament, to authorize the Minister for Finance to borrow from the Bank of St. Lucia Limited for capital expenditure to finance the national sports infrastructure, strategy and action plan and the 2018-2019 budget. Whereas it is provided under section 391 of the Finance Administration Act, capped 1501, that the Minister for Finance may, by Resolution of Parliament, borrow money from a bank or other financial institution. Madam Clerk, you're on the, you should be on. So I'm reading you wrong one, Madam President. My apologies, Madam President. My apologies. Yes, Madam President. So the Finance Administration Act, Resolution of Parliament, to authorize the Minister for Finance to borrow from the Export-Import Bank of the Republic of China, Taiwan for capital expenditure to finance the road improvement and maintenance program, the infrastructure repairs to schools and the housing development program. Whereas it is provided under section 491 of the Finance Administration Act, capped 1501, that the Minister for Finance may, by Resolution of Parliament, borrow money from a bank or other financial institution for the capital expenditure of governments. Whereas it is further provided under section 421 of the Finance Administration Act, capped 1501, that there shall be charged on and paid out of the consolidated fund debt charges for which the government is liable. Whereas the Minister for Finance considers it necessary to borrow the sum of US $50 million from the Export-Import Bank of the Republic of China, Taiwan for the purpose of financing the road improvement and maintenance program, the infrastructure repairs to schools and housing development program consisting of US $42 million to finance the road improvement and maintenance program, and that's phase four, be four million US dollars to finance the infrastructure repairs to schools and see US four million dollars to finance the housing development program. Whereas the principal amount is repairable in 20 years from the date of first disbursement of the loan, inclusive of a five-year grace period. Whereas the interest is payable at a rate of six months London Interbank offered rate plus 1.5% per annum. Whereas the loan payments shall commence after the grace period of five years has expired. Whereas the interest shall be paid in the amount of US $1,097,500 semiannually during the grace period and thereafter the six month London Interbank offered rate. Whereas the terms and conditions proposed by Export-Import Bank of Republic of China are accepted. Be it resolved that Parliament authorizes the Minister for Finance to borrow the sum of US $50 million from the Export-Import Bank of the Republic of China, Taiwan for the purpose of financing the road improvement and maintenance program, the infrastructure repairs to schools and the housing development program consisting of US $42 million to finance the road improvement and maintenance program phase four, be US $4 million to finance the infrastructure repairs to schools and see US $4 million to finance the housing development program. Be it resolved that A, the principal amount is repairable in 20 years from the date of first disbursement of the loan inclusive of a five-year grace period. B, the interest is payable at a rate of six months London Interbank offered rate plus 1.5% per annum. C, the loan payment shall commence after the grace period of five years has expired and D, the interest shall be paid in the amount of US $1,097,500 and E, semiannually during the grace period and thereafter at a six month London Interbank offered rate and E, the terms and conditions, the terms and conditions proposed by the export import bank of the Republic of China are accepted. Madam President, before I comment on this resolution, before Madam President I give any comment on this resolution, I need to inform the House that the presentation to the Senate or the lower house of such resolution is consistent throughout, is consistent throughout because earlier the, in fact there was a, I believe it was statutory instrument number 92 of 2014. That's when the, we had the last administration that came to the House to borrow 20 million US dollars for the rehabilitation of the St. Jude's Hospital and these are the same, everything is the same, it's just the amount or maybe the rates are different. So again Madam President I'm hoping that in presenting or speaking on this resolution that the same queries and concerns that were raised earlier will not be raised. I believe Madam President I was able to explain as to why certain things are the way there. So Madam President we speak of rehabilitation of our international airport. The opposition says we are fixing the roads. We speak of roads Madam President they say we are fixing the hospitals. We speak of hospitals Madam President and they say why aren't you fixing the schools. So Madam President we are here for three things. This resolution takes care of three things. The three 50 million US dollars will address three critical sectors our road networks, housing and our schools. Madam President again given the posture of the opposition who always seems to oppose everything that we propose. I await with bitter breath Madam President to see if there will be any rejection or opposition to this resolution. Madam President our road network Madam President needs a facelift. We need to improve on our roads Madam President because we all use the roads we all we all one way or the other a driver a passenger a pedestrian we all use the roads. So I don't see why Madam President this side of the house will not get support from the opposition. Madam President it is my understanding about 70 plus percent of our current schools were built over 40 years ago. Over 40 years ago Madam President 70 percent of our school stock and there has not been a consistent maintenance program of our schools over the years. So Madam President for the very first time for the very first time Madam President we will be undertaking such a huge renovation and republishment of our schools. For the very first time Madam President on the opposite side we have two former teachers a former principal and I believe a sports and a PE teacher. Madam President and there's always an outcry a lot cry from the opposite side about our schools always molds and everything else so Madam President let me see again whether or not we will get the support of the opposition on this resolution as far as republishment of our schools is concerned. Madam President the last count there's a tooth there's a tooth or shortage of housing in this country as my understanding is about 14 000 plus 14 000 plus. Madam President we see housing as an important sector in the development of our country and hence the reason Madam President we are borrowing this amount of money four million US dollars to put into the development program of our housing. So what will I hear from the opposition Madam President? Will I hear from them that we are borrowing money again? Oh yes we will we will but Madam President I need to remind us in this house I need to remind us in this house that this Madam President first of all the the money being borrowed for the for the road rehabilitation we have a source of revenue for that. A dedicated source of revenue for that Madam President. So borrowing is not wrong Madam President as long as you can finance it so whereas Madam President our debt our debt stock is increasing has increased Madam President but the burden of financing this loan this loans Madam President is almost zero because there is a revenue source to finance these borrowings and there's a difference between this administration and the last administration and the previous Labour Party administration that's the difference that's the difference Madam President before we borrow any money Madam President we have to identify where that revenue source will come from that's the difference Madam President. So even though Madam President you would see our debt the debt to GDP ratio increases it's not a big problem it's not a big problem is how you are able to manage that increase in your debt stock that's the difference. So Madam President I am very pleased that my government and their wisdom and in understanding the needs of this country not just infrastructure but the people's needs Madam President you speak of schools you speak of housing that plays a critical role in our social development housing quality the location of housing so there's a socio-economic benefits Madam President socio-economic benefits that's how we think that's how we lay and put together our policies Madam President so these borrowings are not just borrowings but these are development borrowings development borrowings so Madam President I am so pleased I am so pleased that we are here today to undertake such important business in the house and I'm hoping that there is consensus with this resolution but before I end Madam President before I end I don't want to miss this point under a Labour Party administration Madam President remember there was that situation of I would call it well the policy of universal secondary education where at one point in time I must credit him for that Madam President at one point in time you had students or kids living school at 13-14 years I remember Madam President when I had to when I first went to the Corinth Secondary School at the time at age 11 1979 in 1982 I had to write an exam to go to Casper's Comprehensive School Madam President at that time you had one or two individuals passing to go to Casper's Comprehensive School from Entrypo and Corinth I remember that time very well Madam President and they were some of my classmates at Corinth that left school at 14-14 years 14-15 years Madam President because there was no place for them to go no secondary school for them to go to and luckily enough Madam President I was able to to write the exam at the second time I get a chance to go to the Casper's Comprehensive School so I credit the Labor Party administration at the time when they built a number of secondary schools now this in itself I mean this has its own problems I will not go into that but I must give credit for understanding there was a need for providing students secondary school education at least a place in a secondary school education but Madam President what I believe happened at the time or what didn't happen that there was a good assessment or proper assessment of the population changes over time because what happened the school placements or the number of schools that were built were built for the number of students that required the placements at the time so if you needed 10,000 students who needed to go to secondary school and they would have built sufficient schools to place these 10,000 students but what they didn't realize Madam President that when you look at the demographics the demographics the population pyramid that you would have you'd have seen Madam President that the population the population of the population not the population Madam President but the fertility rates that is the average the average child the average child per mother would have decreased that was not taken into consideration Madam President that's why today you have a lot of secondary schools with over capacity in other words you have a lot of empty or half empty or quarter empty secondary schools in this country and you still have to maintain the secondary schools so Madam President they are there they are here we must maintain them we must keep them in good conditions that's where was our our children are so we must so Madam President I say all this to say that this government this government cares about our schools cares about our students cares about housing cares about healthcare cares about the roads cares about the airport not being in the hands of private entity when we can take it on by ourselves so Madam President again I wait with breath the posture of the opposition as far as this resolution is concerned I thank you Madam President Senators the question is that parliament authorize the minister for finance to borrow the sum of US 50 50 million dollars from the export import bank of the Republic of China Taiwan for the purpose of financing the road improvement and maintenance program the infrastructure repairs the schools and the housing development program consisting of a 42 million u.s. dollars to finance the road improvement and maintenance program phase four b four million four million u.s. dollars to finance the infrastructure repair to schools see four million u.s. dollars to finance the housing development program be it further resolved that the principal amount is repairable in 20 years from the date of the first disbursement of the loan inclusive of a five-year grace period the interest is payable at a rate of the six month london interbank offered a rate plus 1.5 percent per annum see the loan repayment the loan payments shall commence after the grace period of five years has expired d the interest shall be paid in the amount of us one million ninety seven thousand and five hundred dollars semi annually during the grace period and thereafter at the six month london interbank offered rate and e the terms and conditions proposed by the export import bank of the republic of china taiwan are accepted leader of opposition business thank you madam president and of course i will be extremely brief on this one but to ask a few very important questions if one were to decide to make a decision as to whether you support a motion for more boring i found it interesting madam president that the leader of government business was able to provide salient information on a ppp of the past administration that made reference to that made reference to the ira internal rate of interest you had pertinent information that would have been useful to accompany your own proposal on the airport and i think for this motion there was some information that would be helpful in us in supporting what you've bought what you've bought before the house to borrow forty something million dollars but even before i ask that i want to note just make some observation and while you spoke very loudly how appreciative the government your government is about schools and um and housing i just need to note that there are about a hundred and ten schools on the island and by virtue of four million u.s. dollars that means you spend just about ninety thousand dollars for school i'm i'm saying per average i said average if we were to to see to it because you made a point that seventy percent of our school plans were built forty years ago that means a large percentage of our school plans need assistance and therefore while you madam don't tell me gradually you made a presentation that we are putting four million dollars to take care of our schools and our government care about schools i'm just making the point i'm just making the point that it could only address so much yes so it is it is it is a very small amount relative to the problem that we have as a matter of fact madam president as a matter of fact it was the prime minister who indicated that the castries comprehensive school would take approximately thirteen million dollars or twelve million dollars that means the four million dollars based on his own estimate would not be adequate to renovate the castries comprehensive school if that is correct housing madam president i do welcome the idea from housing but housing is an area that i'm particularly concerned about because i believe in this policy madam president that the public sector should not go in areas where the private sector should and that government should really address areas that the private sector is unable so i would like to know i would like to know where is it in terms of the government's housing policy that this injection of ten million dollars where exactly is it being spent if it is if it if we were spending if we were building houses um bungalow houses of approximately 800 square foot madam president um a two bedroom house costing about two hundred and fifty thousand dollars the amount allocated they would only be able to do about 42 of them and if for example we were building 42 houses i would ask where are we targeting 42 who are who are receiving such if that was being done so just a perspective of four ten million dollars into housing what exactly are we doing who are we targeting bearing in mind madam president i believe i believe that government should only intervene in areas where the private sector cannot so for example madam president i believe if that persons can go to the bank and get a loan and build a home then i think government should encourage persons to do so and create the environment for persons to build their homes that way i think government should address housing in areas where there needs to be social housing programs for persons ordinarily who could not go to the bank but need shelter i'm just saying that is my policy that's a policy i'm asking i'm suggesting this and that's that's why i'm speaking so i'm saying that in the presentation made by the leader of government business i notice that this government is poised mainly to rebut but not to provide information madam president as if if the opposition do not ask questions the persons with persons in the in the out there in the public would be left in the dark well i thought you would have spent more time in articulating these policy statements as against beating your chest as to so much of what government is doing highlight the salient points 42 million dollars us for road improvement and maintenance program and again you cited a revenue stream madam president it is documented and when i speak i speak not just of st lusia but the islands of the eastern caribbean do have a challenge in maintaining roads period it's a major problem and very few islands have been able to to to get on top of the issue of road maintenance as a matter of fact madam president every time we construct a new road whether it's through a feeder rotor there's a cost in maintaining it and it's really something that has just left us and as to how we pull that back is is a serious discussion i understand that there's an an allocation made towards and i think you would want to refer to that as a revenue stream to support the borrowing of 42 million dollars the cost of road maintenance per mile is significant and 42 million us dollars one would ask in terms of maintenance how do you leverage that in terms of construction of new roads and maintenance of existing roads what is the how do you how do you apportion it and if you're going to construct new roads knowing very well your current road network your challenge with the maintenance of it what is in place for you to be able to maintain new roads and what kind of roads are you building and where so before we say that we come into borrow because we care and what a view at this time of the year we know that there are few christmas trees with no gifts below it and there are some people who are trying hard to put gifts in boxes but probably have no one to give it to they probably have no children it's important that if we come in here we provide information so that members here in the general public can have an appreciation of what is being said and what is what what what what we're about so i would like for that to be to be answered so that we can make an informed decision as to whether we support this resolution or not thank you very much senator thomas francis thank you very much madam president madam president i intend to be extremely brief but there are just some pertinent questions that i need to ask relative to the motion before us uh of course this is similar to what we debated this morning in terms of the structure so i will not delve into that i imagine at some stage i will get some answers to the questions which i raised but i believe this particular question that i'm going to ask the answer may be readily available and maybe i missed that aspect when i stepped out of the room um earlier this morning and when senator uh isaac made a presentation i understand that with every borrowing the government makes that there is a designated income stream to support that borrowing i'm not sure if i missed it but i need to know what is the revenue stream for this element of borrowing um also sorry well i so maybe i missed it but madam president i'm asking the question because like i said perhaps i missed it during my absence um madam president also based on my knowledge of fiscal prudence and i learned that very very early when i had a discourse with um the late sir john compton our former prime minister whom we can all agree was perhaps one of the best um fiscal leaders we had in this country i remember approaching him as a banker offering him funding for road rehabilitation and he said to me no government borrows for road maintenance road maintenance or maintenance of assets have to be done through recurrent revenue as indeed this constitute recurrent expenditure so i just wanted to understand whether you know the rules have changed and um the rationale for borrowing and more so over a period of 20 years because to borrow to repair roads repair school and take a loan of 20 years by next five years by next seven years so perhaps we can say 10 years these same buildings these same roads will require maintenance are we going to go and borrow another for another 20 years when will it end so i need to get an understanding of that madam um president um in terms of the roads i am i must say i'm heartened that the roads are going to be getting some attention and the schools are going to be getting some attention because we've heard a lot about the challenges there in terms of the road i too am experiencing difficulty with my road so i do hope that there will be equity across the board in looking at road maintenance because we do have issues in so many different parts of the island so i am heartened by that decision in terms of the four million us dollars for housing again i'm not sure if i missed it but is that for home construction or is it land acquisition and land logs that are going to be sold so i just want a little um explanation or elucidation in these areas madam president i thank you for your indulgence senator wuji thank you madam president um madam president i have a similar problem um with this document as raised in the earlier one um once again there's a fixed amount for interest to be paid semi annually which suggests that all of the resources are going to be made available to the government of san usher up front i would like to know if that is accurate because if not then the interest rate um initially should vary with the amount of principal drawn down so there ought to be something about a disbursement schedule or the tranches in which the monies would become available to the government of send usher if not then they should not be a fixed interest rate a fixed interest payment at um correction a fixed interest payment should not apply unless the lump sum is being disbursed immediately upon approval some clarification would be most appreciated senator mangan thank you very much madam president madam president i rise in support of this motion by the government of san russia to borrow from the eczema bank of taiwan 50 million u.s. dollars for the purpose of road rehabilitation school maintenance and the housing program madam president productivity in our country is something that we need to improve on and to increase as much as possible as you can well appreciate madam president when we do have our primary road infrastructure and secondary road infrastructure which are the roads that this particular motion um or this amount will be addressing when we have those roads with a lot of potholes and we need to maneuver and so on it would take an enormous amount of time or an increased amount of time for us to be able to move from point a to point b time madam president is very important and with the repairs of this road these roads the borrowing of 42 million u.s. dollars will increase our productivity or will provide us with additional time for us to be able to put into productive use so there is there is directly a component where where we would be achieving more and be able to produce more as a result of commuting from point a to point b at a better rate furthermore madam president our minibus drivers our our minibus drivers and also those of us who own our private vehicles will basically get a better relief because we know that the cost of parts suspension parts etc are very expensive and if if we can get a relief if we can get better roads naturally the maintenance of our vehicles amount of the lifespan of our vehicles will be prolonged and would require less and less maintenance so there is also savings in this in this in this regard madam president we talk about we've been asked as to what is the source of well not the source of this borrowing but what is the revenue stream for this particular borrowing and like we've always said whenever we borrow there is a revenue stream the revenue stream for this 50 million dollars is the the fuel surcharge the dollar 50 cents which the government collects on every gallon of fuel that is the revenue stream to take care of this this particular loan madam president i listen to the senator opposite leader of the opposition business and for one time again in fact i i wondered what was going on because i heard in one voice is saying that this amount of borrowing is not sufficient will that be enough to take care of our roads will that be enough to take care of our school plant will it be enough to take care of our of our housing needs so i have to ask the question is he putting up a case for the government to borrow more on the other hand on the other hand we've been hearing that they're not in support of borrowing and then we are borrowing too much we borrowed almost a billion dollars we're doing too much borrowing but on the other hand it is ironically being said that we're not borrowing enough so which is which madam president which is which whether we should borrow more right whether he's asking us to borrow more madam president our school plant madam president we know that of course it is aging we know that it requires much maintenance and i am very thankful to see that at least though the amount is small i agree with him that the amount is small and i believe that of course the government will prioritize certain schools that require more urgent attention and to be able to spend that four million us dollars which is about roughly 10.5 or 11 million ec dollars on that school plan so so they always come here knocking us on the aging school plan the school needs attention etc this is our answer madam president that we are indeed doing something to ensure that the plight and the problems we are faced in our school infrastructure is being relieved and madam president that takes me to housing and the four million dollars allocated us allocated to housing approximately 10.5 or 11 million ec dollars madam president again i normally like to make a comparison in some cases today i shall reveal to you madam president that the national housing corporation which is the implementation agency for government a statutory body for government responsible for provision of affordable homes in this country madam president established in 2001 in 2014 madam president let us let let let us make the comparison in 2014 the dense and lucha labor party government had to go and borrow 14 million dollars to bail out the national housing corporation under its watch 14 million dollars for what for its its deficit in its recurrent expenditure paying salaries and its bills etc and in terms of projects that were previously implemented losses in projects that were previously implemented that is a government that took the taxpayers money via via bonds and so on and dealt with a situation after the fact madam president they were reacting to a crisis they were reacting and and when they reacted to this crisis it was said that listen we are bailing you out the national housing corporation but we do not we want you to manage your affairs more prudently so we do not have to come in and to bail you out again under any such circumstances but what transpired thereafter 20 between 2014 and 2016 when we came into office halfway in 2016 there was a further 3.5 million dollars that the corporation had incurred in debt after that 14 million dollar bailout and so madam president despite despite the NFC having not done a single project a single housing project between the years 2011 and 2016 not a single project anything that was done in housing in this country between 2011 and 2016 was done by the ministry of housing itself and that is and that is the Bwadawansh project which of course they did on private lands and this government had to come in and acquire the properties but the national housing corporation itself did nothing despite it did nothing and produce nothing it acquired 14 million dollars in debt and then an additional 3.5 million dollars that is 17.5 million dollars in debt madam president so when we come in as a new executive do we simply follow that's the status quo do we continue along these lines and deliver nothing to our people deliver nothing so madam president tough decisions has to be made and so I know sometimes when we when we do belt tightening and we reform as we reform reform in the NFC and doing certain restructuring there are decisions that may appear to certain persons to be unpopular to them but of course those decisions have to be made madam president or else we are going nowhere we are absolutely going nowhere so we we we reform we we doing certain degree of restructuring and as a result of that madam president we are moving into the right direction and we have a lot of work to do but look at the foresight of this government whereas whereas the previous government reacted to a situation this government with its foresight is actually proposing and chatting the way forward and for the first time since the establishment of the national housing corporation will 10 million e c dollars be pumped in for specifically for housing projects we are not be putting in 10 million dollars to bail out the NFC from its total debt we are not putting in 10 million dollars simply because there is a crisis that that is there and the NFC is in debt presently we are putting 10 million dollars to deal specifically with the housing program in this country and so we like senator Henry says i agree with him 10 million dollars is not sufficient but it is the best that has happened and i want to thank this government for that and so and so madam president we are not just sitting down we are just not just sitting down waiting for 10 million dollars we have also launched the ppp yes i do support ppp as well and i support it for housing i support it for housing when it is necessary i believe in an area like housing which is our social need these are the areas where we need to bring in our ppp programs right and in there we last year this year madam president we announced the NFC partnering with private sector entities in order to deal with the housing crisis in this country but when i differ from the honorable senator opposite is that he says that government should stay out of it and it should only be the private sector that should be involved in the development of housing in this country no madam president the government both needs to establish the policies and create the incentives for the private sector i agree but the government also needs to chat the way forward and through its NFC madam president the government are providing the lands for those private developers and through this 10 million dollar facility the the NFC will have within its coffers additional equity for it to be able to to put into housing programs in st russia like the shock housing program like the talvin housing program like the buajole housing program that is supposed to be coming up soon madam president and so i can boldly announce that within the first quarter of next year you shall see the commencement of some major housing developments in this country and of course we shall be launching it out madam president so so the whole concept madam president whereas 10 million dollars might be able to truthfully build only 40 houses in this country we're not going to take 10 million dollars and just simply put it into building 10 40 houses we're going to strategically use those funds to be able to revolve it because while you designing while you while you are implementing a project even from the design stage when you when you launch out a project madam president you could start advertising that project you could start taking deposits on that project and persons then could actually start going to the banks and get their loans so as they get their loans they come in and they pay off on those houses and they pay off on these projects so whereas you could probably do only the the equivalent of 40 houses in the first phase you will now be recouping those 10 million dollars back and you will now be putting it back into that fund to do another 40 houses and this is how it's been done senator henry this is how we propose to go on with it and madam president i am very happy to see that a plan is coming into in it is in place and it's about to take off this government is wise enough to have handled and tackled every aspect of the problems within the housing sector or the finance required within the housing sector just in our last seat in madam president we were here to borrow 20 million dollars for the st lusia development bank of which 15 million dollars will be made available 15 million dollars will be made available to st lusians who are willing to purchase homes that was one of the vacuum that we had in this country before whereas homes yes are required by persons but there were difficulties in in obtaining finance for homes so now we have agencies like first national bank st lusia development bank mainly the local banks coming on board bank of st lusia and even the other banks approaching the nthc okay wanting to to to get involved in the entire process of development in st lusia and of course that 15 million dollars will be able to empower the st lusia development bank to make loans available so while the nthc and private developers in this country will be developing the housing stock in st lusia there shall be continuity because monies will be made available so persons could purchase those properties and so we move on and we move on and we move on madam president so i want to say madam president that i fully support this activity i fully support borrowing of this this amount and i look forward to very great things being done thank you very much thank you madam president i stand with a smile on this motion and i'm sure that my colleagues opposite will be will not be surprised at all that i'm very pleased to speak for a few moments on this on this motion but while i smile at the idea of money being allocated or borrowed for the purpose of school repairs and housing it doesn't mean that we do so without paying attention to everything that is important so i just want to say first of that on this motion to borrow four million dollars well it involves other sums 42 million in total but four million us of that amount going to school repairs and another four million for housing development of course the balance for road repairs i am very pleased that there is some semblance of attention that is going to be paid to addressing the concerns that my colleague senator in his earlier contribution referred to i will continue in this honorable house to mention or to stand and to speak on the plight of schools for as long as i'm here and every effort that is made to respond to that or to deal with any issues related to making our education system our human resource capital better will get my support so this honorable house has not heard the last of me when it comes to these issues i applaud the efforts of the government to secure funds for school repairs i say to them or to the government that we must also be mindful that when we make those efforts that we give credit where it's due and i'm happy that the leader of government business acknowledge the introduction of universal secondary education by the labor party government and i suspect around that time he was very close and involved so he couldn't have absorbed himself from it and also that the point about the for the first time i think we have to be very careful when we make those kinds of pronouncements as if certain things happen for the very first time that is not accurate my um madam president um and i'm referring to the issue um the point that was made that for the first time there is a systematic approach being taken by this government towards school repairs that that is very far from the truth madam president i will inform this house that as a practitioner in the education system for over 25 years especially running um a school being part of the administrative administration of a school there is a very well established process through which government is first informed and is guided as to how to go about school repairs it is well established so the my my comrade my honorable colleague can clarify in his rebuttal but i want to remind this house that this process is very well established first of all in may of every year there is what you call a staffing process where um school principals education officers planning and corporate planning and other relevant departments of the department of education they sit they look at their plans for the new fiscal year their submissions made by the schools including um requests for repairs minor repairs and other other needs that is prioritized based on the situation at each school and then in the budget allocations are made when these allocations are made then there is a department in the ministry that that comes that is um supervised by the director of works that allocates these these funds to various um education districts and then the repairs are done according to the priority and the needs of schools um when we speak about the amounts to be borrowed i am also i am also saying that this is not the first time that we've seen governments both governments and i don't want to take credit and say that is only the senator labor party governments on both sides have um made significant attempts i know that several ministers of education in the past have always complained that there is not enough money being put forward the teachers unions have complained that they have issues with school security and safety and health safety concerns regarding workers my school was one of them and we have had issues where they have been seekouts because schools have not been teachers and principals and so on have not been satisfied with conditions of work so it is not a big thing for the first time as we always want to make it look but we must not underestimate the value of the effort so while it's not an unprecedented thing i must say that it's a good move and i support the idea of spending money to repair our schools and bring them up to a standard where they are safe for the occupants students teachers and other workers at the school madam president the lead of government business did mention that and when the independent senator asked a question he did remind us that the repairs will be done to selected schools my only concern is how will the selection be done i am hoping that there is a process to be followed which i just briefly outlined and that is the process that will be used to determine which schools get priority obviously we can see that we can't repair all 100 plus schools in the island and we must give priority to some but on what basis are the schools going to get priority that is important and i hope it is in consultation with the technocrats at the ministry and the principals and persons who will inform i can point out a few examples of schools that from my own knowledge are down have been have had issues for a while and i've mentioned them before this is after louis community college we have two departments now being housed one at the george shell secondary and now i'm one at at monroe college i think they've been moved to to monroe college um there's obvious it's obvious that there are issues with the the plant and the staff and students have completed we also know that the from 2016 the micro secondary school where i was i worked for 12 years as an entire block was virtually shut down the form three block on the western wing um if there was it was in the news that the principal and the staff had staged some protest action because of the condition of that block what happened the block was demolished and up to this day we have grass growing there nothing has been erected no structure the minister for education indicated that she was going to try to in her own words scrape up some funds it's been two years so now that we have come to the house to authorize borrowing i am i am hopeful that by the middle of next year that i will not have to be speaking about that specific issue we also know that even in the prime minister's constituency it's quite a shame that we have schools like the tiroshie combined school and the angia secondary school with major electrical problems and as i mentioned the prime minister himself admitted that there was a report of a fire at the tiroshie school and the classroom had to be shut down these are urgent needs that need to be made attended to so that is why i am saying that i hope that in terms of the selected schools that the priorities be given to schools not based on which individual is a district rep are not based on which constituency the school comes from but on the needs that have been articulated through the process involving principals and involving the stakeholders of the school to prioritize so that the schools in more critical with more critical needs are attended to first finally madam president i just also want to mention that we have a case where the cast is comprehensive secondary school the alma mater for quite a few of us in here there was some talk of the school being airmarked for demolition or a relocation or something like that i am hoping i am hoping that instead of doing that i know this government seems to have a liking for demolishing and rebuilding i don't know what it is about that but instead of that type of talk that we're going to be seeing some effort towards alleviating some of the structural and repair needs of that specific school instead of hearing people talking about relocating it and demolishing it i know the ccss alumni association has made the position very clear on that matter and i hope that the government takes heed of the concerns of both present and past students of the school madam president having said that i again reiterate that i am very happy to hear that there will be some attention paid to school repairs i want to ask that the government pays attention to the feedback that is going to get the feedback that is going to receive from entities like the st lucha teachers union the national principals association because these groups these organizations are directly impacted by issues regarding safety and security of schools and conditions of work and i will not have to be the one in this honorable house to give any feedback i think these entities will say how well these monies have been spent from their feedback we will know whether that four million u.s dollars has been well spent i suppose by the end of next year so i i wait for that response and it will be clear for all of us to know and i look forward to these concerns being addressed there's also one more issue the impact on the the repairs of schools is not something that you can measure by just going and show and do any any assessment it is really by the response of the occupants of the schools that you know whether they are comfortable and whether they feel unsafe or whether they feel safe so we wait for that and i'm hoping that our schools will be properly prioritized based on an objective fair process that the monies are located will be well spent well managed and that the relevant departments in the ministry that we don't seem to remember are given the opportunity to decide which schools um get the the the attention in what priority so that the there is fairness and there is equity in the the actual spending of these monies that we are borrowing i thank you madam president leader of government business madam president i will quickly respond to some of the comments that were made by the i would distinguish senators i believe that the senator mangal addressed adequately the concerns raised in the concerns raised about the the housing development projects so i will abstain from making any further comments on that um the concern of the senator food in on concerning how will the schools be selected i wish to inform madam president uh the senator that the selection is done by the ministry of education similar to what was done with the the road rehabilitation project um that exercise was carried on by the the ministry of infrastructure i remember clearly madam president that the minister of infrastructure um honorable stephenson king um bring into cabinet or carry into cabinet uh a list of all the roads and the reasons as to why the roads need the repair rehabilitation it was a very scientific exercise that was undertaken by the ministry of infrastructure and i can say to you madam president that the individual ministers had absolutely no say in the decision as to the the selected roads for rehabilitation absolutely none it was just brought to us and that was that was just brought to the ministers of brought to cabinet and that was it and i believe i believe madam president the same will happen with the selection of schools for the rehabilitation for for their rehabilitation madam president um if again if the if the selection in fact madam president if you look at the selected roads for repair and rehabilitation you would see that um marshal road and waterworks road is at two roads that part of the rehab and repair and you would know very well madam president that the marshal and and waterworks road they're located in the constituency of castries east which is seated by a the leader of opposition opposition leader rather than president so madam president when it comes to these important projects and projects in general my government does not discriminate this is not about the politics this is about improving the lives of our pupils our students in in increasing ensuring that there is improvement in the lives of our citizens and therefore we do not get engaged or not engaged in any types of discrimination when it comes to such as far as the location of the housing project is concerned madam president it is my understanding it is it would be in the castries basin you would understand madam president why this would be the case um you have a very high concentration or high per capita um residents in the castries basin and we talk about castries being highly populated and highly dense and dense um highly you have a very high population density in the castries basin hence the reason why hence the reason we are undertaking these housing developments in the castries and it's probably most likely it's in the suburbs of of of castries as far as um debarising this right barbona area and of course all of these pathologies form a very high density um population density um area so again madam president it has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you have a sitting mp in that area or you don't have one it has strictly to do with um the need of the of the communities and the need of the area now the um independent senator oge ask um always do always does i should say uh um ask a very technical questions i i try getting that answer for you um senator um unable to um very pertinent question and i will ensure that um when if any such resolution comes to part to to the senate that i have i will have prepared such um question for a response for your question for particular question um you will you are not here when i responded to your previous um contributions but i said that you listen okay thank you very much so madam president um we said that the the road rehabilitation and repair would be the financing will be coming from the road tax and the schools and housing would be coming from the recurrence that is actually which is part of the the our the the budget 2018 2019 so that's about it madam president i know the the the um senator food in on risk concerns about um my former um secondary school castries cast whose comprehensive secondary school um as far as whether or not the government will be demolishing i can say to you that this has not been a a a a policy um statement from the from the prime minister um this is something we have not um discussed in cabinet and i understand the the sentiments or sentimental values that um individuals have only come through schools um but we have not made any decision as far as demolition of schools are concerned if anything this money will be useful it will be used for the assist in the rehabilitation of the castries comprehensive secondary school um so who knows i don't know um if there will be a need for that demolition i don't know we don't know we let us we always have to approach things in a very scientific way and be a more informed way as opposed to being too emotive too emotional as to this is my school and anything else madam president anything else madam president we have to be able to get the facts get the information and then make a decision not hearing something and saying don't touch this don't touch that because sometimes it may be in the best interest of doing something with that thing madam president be it whatever structure it is be it the pre-entry be it the um the be it the um the parliament be it the old courthouse who knows madam president there might be good reasons for doing certain things with these these um these buildings so we have to avoid the emotions we have to avoid emotions and the the emotive um response to such things madam president we have to be able to see things um holistically and not just through our narrow vision so madam president i just want to make it clear that it is not the position of the government the government has not made a decision as far as the demolition of the castries comprehensive secondary school at any point in this in the at least in in this period thank you very much madam president madam president i would like to make um just one amendment to the resolution before us yes proceed madam president if you look at the resolution um on page one page two rather madam president under be it further resolved section a it says the principal amount is repayable in 20 years from the date of the first disbursement of the loan inclusive of the five-year grace period madam president i asked of that of the word principal be deleted and be replaced with the word loan so it should read the loan amount is repayable in 20 years from the date of the first disbursement of the loan inclusive of a five-year grace period thank you senators the question is that the word principal be left out and the word loan be inserted in a be it further resolved a on page two of the resolution i now put the question as many as are of that opinion say i as many as are of the country opinion say no i think the eyes have it the eyes have it leader of government business madam president i beg to move the following motion standing in my name finance administration acts resolution of parliament to authorize the minister for finance to borrow from the bank of solution limited for capital expenditure to finance the national sports infrastructure strategy senators the question is that parliament authorized the minister for finance to borrow the sum of 50 million dollars united states from the export import bank of the republic of china taiwan for the purpose of financing the road financing the road improvement and maintenance program the infrastructure repairs to the schools and the housing development program consisting of united states 42 million dollars to finance the road improvement and maintenance program phase four us four million dollars to finance infrastructure repairs to schools us four million dollars to finance the housing development program we further resolve that the principal amount is repairable in 20 years from the date of the first disbursement of the loan inclusive of a five-year grace period be the interest is payable at a rate of six month london interbank offered rate plus 1.5 per cent per annum see the loan the loan payment shall commence after the grace period of five years has expired d the interest shall be paid in the amount of us one million ninety seven thousand and five hundred dollars semi annually during the grace period and thereafter at the six month london interbank offered rate and e the terms and conditions proposed by the export import bank of the republic of china taiwan are accepted i now put the question as many as are of that opinion see i as many as are of that opinion see i as many as are of that opinion see i as many as are of the contrary opinion see no i think the eyes have it the eyes have it leader of government business modern president i beg to invoke um standing order nine three to allow the house to continue sitting between the hours of six and seven thirty o'clock in the evening honorable senators the question is that the that section nine nine three be suspended to allow the house to continue sitting until till seven thirty i now put the question as many as of that opinion see i as many as our contrary opinion see no i think the eyes have it the eyes have it leave is granted leader of government business madam president i beg to move the following motion standing in my name finance administration act revolution resolution of parliament to authorize the minister for finance to borrow from the bank of st lusia for capital expenditure to finance the national sports infrastructure strategy and action plan and the 2018 2019 budget and whereas it is provided under section 39 one of the finance administration act capped 150 one that the minister for finance may buy resolution of parliament borrow money from a bank or other financial institution for the capital expenditure of government and whereas it is further provided under section 42 one of the finance administration act capped 150 one that there shall be charged upon and paid out of the consolidated fund that charges for which the government is liable and whereas the minister for finance considers it necessary to borrow the sum of 32 million ec dollars 32 million 400 000 ec dollars from the bank of st lusia limited for the purpose of financing the 2018 19 budget in the amount of ec 24 million 300 000 to finance the national sports infrastructure strategy and action plan be ec 8 million 100 000 to finance the 2018 2019 budget and whereas interest on each loan amount is repayable at a rate of 4.5 percent per annum and whereas a commitment fee of one percent is payable on the establishment of an of each loan amount and whereas the loan amount of 20 20 ec 24 million 300 000 is repayable at ec 1 million 518 750 dollars per quarter for four years inclusive of interest up to ec 308 000 576 171 cents per quarter on a reducing balance basis and whereas the loan amount of ec 8 8 million 100 000 dollars is repayable at ec 506 000 250 dollars per quarter for four years inclusive of interest up to ec 102 000 858 dollars and 590 cents per quarter on a on a reducing balance basis be it resolved that parliament authorizes the minister for finance to borrow the sum of ec 32 million 400 000 from the bank of st lusia limited for the purpose of financing the 2018 2019 budget in the amount of ec 24 million 300 000 to finance the national sports infrastructure strategy and action plan and be ec 8 million 100 000 to finance the 2018 2019 budget be it further resolved that a the interest on on each loan amount is payable at at a rate of 4.5 percent per annum be a commitment fee of one percent is payable on the establishment of each loan see the loan amount of 24 million 300 000 80 dollars is repayable at ec 1 million 518 750 dollars per quarter for four years inclusive of interest up to ec 300 000 576 000 576 dollars and 71 cents per quarter on a reducing balance basis and D the loan amount of ec 1 million 8 million 100 000 is repayable at ec 506 000 250 dollars per quarter for four years inclusive of interest up to ec 102 805 858 dollars and 90 cents per quarter on a reducing balance basis so balance presidents this is a standard straightforward resolution but the purpose of course by the president is twofold number one is to finance the national sports infrastructure strategy and action plan and secondly is to finance the 2018 2019 budget but by the president i don't believe that there is much to discuss especially the section dealing with the 2018 2019 budget because this amount is is it was it was appropriated for in the 2018 budget so we're just here to authorize the the boring to finance capital projects in the amount of 8 million 100 000 dollars however madam president the the other one that deals with the the national the national strategy or sports infrastructural strategy and action plan madam president i believe this is a well a well um thought out um project um this will of course be one that will be felt throughout the breadth of this country where we believe that sports is is necessary it's a necessary development tool for our young in fact for everybody not just young um you could be in your 50s 60s madam president um you could be make use of this facility um i've heard many times again the you know the youth the youth sports and so on but i believe madam president people like myself and even older can participate in the sports and the um the health and exercise activities that will will you'll see a high level of that happening madam president when you have such facilities throughout the length and breadth of sedlution now madam president i want to make it clear that this amount is not for a consultant it is not for consultants it is not for consultants it is for the design and the design and also the rehabilitation not the rehabilitation madam president but the the design and and the the the building of these these these um these infrastructures madam president i have heard many times that we have borrowed um we are borrowing um 12 million dollars for locker b to pay our consultants but madam president i just want to make it clear the 12 million dollars not for consultants but it's to design and to build this infrastructure madam president so i am happy that we are we are finally taking um sports and the facilities to a different level to a higher level madam president so i am very pleased that we are able to come up with such um innovation such plans as far as um the implementation of this very very important project madam president the question is where would that money come from to undertake the financing of these these um these infrastructural developments well madam president there was a a memorandum of understanding between the government of the republic of china taiwan and the government of sen lusha for grant funding of of 60 million us dollars as of as of this as of today madam president we have drawn down um 12 million of that amount there is a balance of 48 million dollars remaining of course a balance of 48 million dollars now madam president instead of waiting for the drawdown every year for the next four years um we believe that it would be better if we if we have if we undertake a bridging finance um facility so we can undertake the development and implementation of these of these um of this this important infrastructure developments so again madam president yes we are borrowing but the borrowing would be supported by the grant funding of the that the the republic of china of china taiwan has provided to the government and people of sen lusha i do thank you madam president senators the question is that parliament authorized the minister for finance to borrow the sum of ec 32 million four hundred thousand dollars from the bank of sen lusha limited for the purpose of financing the 2018 2019 budget in the amounts of a ec 24 million 300 thousand dollars to finance the national sports infrastructure strategy and action plan and b ec 8 million 100 thousand dollars to finance the 2018 2019 budget be it for the resolved that a the interest on each loan amount is payable at a rate of 4.5 percent per annum be a commitment fee of one percent is payable on the establishment of each loan amount see the loan amount of ec 24 million 300 thousand dollars is repairable at ec 1 million 518 thousand 750 dollars per quarter for four years inclusive of interest up to ec 308 576 dollars and 71 cents per quarter on a reducing balance basis d the amount of ec 8 million 100 thousand dollars is repairable at ec 506 thousand 250 dollars per quarter for four years inclusive of interest up to ec 100 and 2858 dollars and 90 cents per quarter on a reducing balance basis senator furunan thank you madam president i i rise with a couple of concerns regarding this resolution first of all i want to read the resolution just to make sure that it's very clear what it says and then i will proceed beat reserve that parliament authorizes the minister for finance to borrow the sum of 32 million 400 thousand from from the bank of st lusia limited for the purpose of financing the 2018 2019 budgets in the amount of a ec 24 million 300 thousand to finance the national sports infrastructure strategy and action plan and be ec 8 million 100 thousand to finance the 2018 2019 budget i will um not bother to go down to the bottom because my contribution will essentially be focused on section a or part a of the resolution madam president the reason i read it again was to ensure that we clearly understand the wording of this resolution and if the wording of this resolution has to be taken as it was just read i will have great difficulty in accepting the suggestion that the leader of government business just made that this loan does not include or does not involve any consultants and so and i heard him mention that it has to do with sporting infrastructure there is a difference between sporting infrastructure building sporting facilities and so on and there is also infrastructure that is not necessarily in building i understand that there is a difference between that and sporting infrastructure strategy and action plan the motion is very clear it is worded in that way and if it doesn't mean that then it should be reworded so madam president before i go any further i want to make it very clear that maybe earlier on in the in the in the sitting it was suggested that probably we do not read i am from the education system and i teach my students that they have to read and read not only to see words in front of them but to be able to discern and to be able to make inferences from what they read and from what i read i've just read madam speaker part a of this resolution where the majority of the funds is allocated 24,300,000 is for national sports infrastructure strategy and action plan so madam president what is an action plan what is a strategy am i to suggest or assume that this this this means the same as buildings so i do not accept or i do not feel very comfortable with the explanation that was provided in the briefing by the leader of government business and so i will ask the following questions one or before i even ask the questions i want to establish a little bit of background i have been known to be an educator for many years but i was also a very avid community sports leader most of us here know that so mr government business leader of government business madam president i understand very much and appreciate the importance of youth development and sports and i have been involved in working with youth development and sports organizations over 25 years as a president of a community development group on a youth and sports council i have been involved in these activities long enough to understand the difference between infrastructure and strategy i have been part of plans and strategy implementation at all levels so when i come to this house and i read a resolution i don't think anybody expects me at least to think that there is no difference between a plan a strategy and actually doing infrastructure madam president i don't think that this there is any clear policy on from this government regarding the direction in which sports youth development is going no clear policy but two and a half years into government we are here to borrow money for for us to be told or for us to decide what is the strategy and what is the action plan two years into two and a half years into government when you have gone past your halfway points in leadership in governance you then decide that you need a strategy and an action plan you know madam president and then you even come to this house and try to make it sound like it's sporting infrastructure i will i am very concerned about this so madam president i ask who is going to prepare that development strategy and this action plan who if it is not going to be consultants then who will do it i would be happy to know like the honorable member earlier on made a point about the competence and the capacity of our local human resource when it had to do with slasper i agree and i've always been a proponent of promoting and developing our human resource i've said it that that might be the the the wood that has been used with highest frequency in this house by myself when it comes to my presentations so i totally agree that there is need for us to invest and to make use of our local human resource in in terms of giving us information and helping us build capacity so if there is a sporting infrastructure strategy and an action plan these are specific things or an action plan who is going to put that together how is that going to be done and if it is not going to be through consultants then why is it that i have attended meetings myself a few weeks ago i attended a consultation quote-unquote in my constituency in my in my community because i don't have a constituency in my community i was there as a sports leader and i was being addressed by the prime minister himself along with a few other constituents on a friday evening in during a thunderstorm by a gentleman representing the park company i was there i was able to pose questions and his deliberations his presentation had everything to do with what i've read there all the the plans of the government all the things that they want to do and this but this gentleman as far as i know is not is not a solution he's not somebody that i know as part of the sports fratinity and he's the same gentleman he was talking about don lockaby so what is the what is it that the leader of government business is trying to see when he quickly tries to preempts what he thought he would mention that this this money is not to be spent on consultants so why is this gentleman coming to my community to speak to my constituents and myself in the company of the prime minister who promised to go to parliament to borrow money to do this mr madam president something is really wrong there and so madam president i also want to see that when i listen to the presentation made by mr lockaby there were certain specific terms that kept being repeated and i want to just mention a few you would hear think about just imagine how about maybe we will what do you think of you know just a lot of fallacy imagination being appealed to how about this and what what about this and just imagine this you know i thought i was in in some alice and wonderland fairy tale something and you and and this is happening and let's take a note of what is happening this resolution is coming to the house today but before that happened the prime minister has already indicated that he's borrowing money so you are going to consult with people again is the same thing that happened when there was the issue with national cultural center consultation is taking place after action you want to know what sports leaders and clubs and communities want to do what they need what kind of thinking what are the plans they have for sports developing in the in your country very good have the consultation go and ask them i am just saying madam president i attended one about three weeks ago and that it came to the house today but that was in this motion to borrow that money was in was in in in the making a long time ago so madam they are documents of course they there was an attempt to make one a document of the house but i'm not going there there's a lot of evidence to suggest that this thing is in motion a long time ago and now we hear about consultation what are you coming to ask me and sports leaders when someone is already telling me all the things he wants to do he's already going around the country telling people what he wants them to imagine but they haven't said what they want so so let me let me imagine for myself don't tell me what to imagine imagine you have this and imagine this in your city i mean if we want certain things done the same way this government believes that we have the capacity and we must not underestimate the ability of our people to be able to do things and and the Labour Party government didn't have confidence in the people yes i agree if that's what you're trying to see don't come back here the very next resolution and tell me that you are not going to bring consultants and consultants are on the ground talking to people and being paid madam president i have great difficulty and i also want to ask all these i call them dreams and fantasies that are being proposed to us who is going to pay for them who's going to pay for them and when people are doing consultancies they are paid and so when i come to the house to be part of a debate where money is being borrowed i want to ask if there is a sports development strategy and action plan who is doing it who is doing it and who is paying the the person or the persons who are doing is it being done by our local sporting consultants do we have people in the various ministry departments and we have a former permanent secretary in ministry of youth and sports she knows the technocrats involved in that who is doing it so i i think we need to make that that point a little bit clearer and be and clarify madam president as i mentioned we do have people in st lusia who have been proven competent persons who can handle all technical aspects of sporting infrastructure we also have people who can deal with designs project design project management architecture construction almost every area in st lusia and why is it that we we cannot find somebody asked me to name one i would i would madam president who designed the the darin sami cricket ground it was a local it was a local architect at least two of them and i was asked to name one i may want to do that mr skid mr hennikar don't these people sound like local solutions who have pedigree in in in designing local infrastructure that stands very proudly now and all of us go and clap and enjoy one of the best facilities in the region for cricket who designed them so we do have the capacity and i agree the same for slasper we do have capacity for slasper to take care of its business we also have capacity for sports to take care of its business because there are solutions who can do it so madam president i also want to say what is this government's obsession maybe for maybe let me use a lighter term preoccupation with yes before i even say it my colleagues seem to know with foreign based services i want to put it this way foreign based services the same government that is that is beating up on the labor party and beating up on the former prime minister for wanting to have a ppp for an airport where we were not spending a cent to do anything and taking the risk we we feel that slasper can deal with it we have capacity when it comes to sports infrastructure there is no mention or no room for that same type of local capacity and local technical ability hypocrisy madam president it is hypocrisy and so if your position is that we will only seek foreign intervention if we do not have the local capacity very well i agree because we want the best quality we don't want to see we doing things local just to appease our local you know people and then we have sub substandard results so if we do not have the local capacity very well let us seek it from outside but do not be conveniently supporting the idea of promoting our solution our solutions and what we can do locally our local resource and our capacity to do things for ourselves and when it comes to a simple thing like designing a an action plan and an infrastructure strategy you know i think i can do some sections of that madam president i believe i can i think you can as a former as a former um for administration person these are things that we can do i think it is not my area of expertise so i'll not boast about it but i'm sure i can i can i can achieve some of that as as a layman what is it about this that we must we must involve people who are fantasizing and telling us to imagine things right with all kinds of accents some of the people at a consultation i'm sure they couldn't even understand what was being said and then we come to the house and say that we are we are proud about of our ability to have slasper manage our our business we must stop the hypocrisy madam president it is and yes and i believe our former ps and our my very good friend minister in in in in the ministry of culture um herself can even lead that process i wouldn't mind if she led the process but we do not think that it's consistent for this government to one part of one corner of the mouth promotes local capacity and local ability and technocrats and then from the other corner of the mouth you know consultants and the the the leader of government business you know dared to come to the house to try to preempt this by saying that there will be no consultants so all i'm saying is if there will be no former foreign consultants if there'll be no locker b and no parker company who is going to develop this sports strategy and who is going to see about this action plan that is written in this resolution madam president finally because i did i don't intend to be long on this i just wanted to make those points why wasn't this before i say so the second part of the resolution speaks to finance in the budget and as i said i don't really have an issue with that i think that is in order and the the leader of government business is correct to say that this is just routine but my question is why isn't the section to deal with supporting the strategy and action plan why wasn't that in our sports budget because that section was not in the sports budget for this year why wasn't it there so at what point did the government find it necessary to include or to embark on this strategy and sports action plan that i'm that is in this resolution why i'm not saying that a country doesn't need a sports strategy and action plan of course i would believe that you need that as to before you get into office you should be campaigning on that and when you get into office you begin with that and everything you do afterwards will be informed by your plan now the action plan is the only activities that are going to be taking place during the course but you must have a plan you must have a vision to come with halfway into your term you you you're now beginning to have people imagine this and where was the plan before where was your plan before i'm not here to promote any governments apart is manifesto i'm asking where was the plan before and why if that was in your plan this i remember the first in the first term yeah when the government came in the government came into office they said the budget was not ours it was not prepared by our government it was passed okay but in the second fiscal year they prepared a budget and don't stand young wasn't you tell me was paid a substantive amount to prepare it so if all that money was spent on all that effort was made to have the government prepared its own budget why wasn't this strategy action plan whatever they call it in this resolution why wasn't it included as one of the main components and the youth and sports development which has its own department during the time that this budget was prepared madam president this component is not featured in the budget and my question is why isn't it there and if it is not there why are we going to borrow almost four fees of the monies that are going to be borrowed on from this amount here for that purpose only eight million one hundred thousand is being borrowed to finance what is in the budget in other words what you had planned to do but or what you are articulated in your budget debate but 24.3 million is now been allocated and you're trying to tell me that it's not to pay consultants but I'd like to know to pay who and for what okay so madam president this is essentially my you know my issue and I'm hopeful that there will be some clarification and some explanation at least provided um clearly and correctly on that matter by the government before we vote on this matter because I would have loved to support a motion like this having a strong background and concern for sports and youth development I would love to come into this honorable house to support any motion to advance the cause of youth and sports development but don't come to the house and pretend that you're borrowing money to do that when the largest significant chunk of it or almost all of it is going into the hands of somebody who's coming to tell me what I already know in the name of consultation coming to tell me to imagine things and to think about things that I have already imagined and thought about since I was a child and all I want to see is for it to happen so madam president I think we should stop playing games with the people stop having people to come out in rain in their communities to come and sit and listen to people fantasize and rather we should be able to take those resources and put them into real action that will bring about real youth and sports development for the young people of our country I thank you madam president honorable minister and ministry of tourism information broadcasting culture and creative industries responsible for culture and creative industries madam president I think I would need the um there so that you can reference your notes yes oh you can see me yeah okay oh okay you can follow okay yes madam president um thank you very much I rise to support this motion you see madam president this is not just about an investment of 32 million dollars in sports infrastructure and of course the development of that strategy but it's about an investment in the youth of our country and national development by extension this investment demonstrates our government's commitment you understand to understanding the importance and value of sports to national development and the long-term strategic development of this country our government and that is the people's government understands that the net value of sport is measured in terms of national health and you see you've been talking about health and all kinds of things earlier but national health well-being social cohesion national identity pride and a route out of poverty and as a consequence we took the bold and necessary step in reshaping and changing this environment madam president I've been around for a long time and I always thank god for the opportunity he has given me to savor and experience the benefits of sport these experiences have influence in a large measure who I am and so I'm blessed to have worked as a public servant in sports serving under several administrations madam president one of the core values of sport is respect and as a sports person I have learned that very well so I will not use this medium to chastise or castigate anyone who has made or attempted to make a contribution towards sport this is not becoming of a sports person not a leader I will also not attempt to compare administrations because I think it's always it's clear as daylight what each administration had done or the successive administrations have done for sport but they've served their time what I'm emboldened to emphasize today is that this government a government of the people for the people and by the people is blessed with a team of individuals who are not thin-skinned and cowardly they understand this society very well and they are prepared for the challenges ahead importantly the majority have experienced the transformative power of sport and they know how to bring it to meaningful effect in the society our country could not have been could not have asked for a better team of persons to lead at this time men and women with the right mindset and fortitude to fulfill the obligations of the nation and I say mindset because you heard the mentality this morning that we cannot do but we believe we can we can achieve and we as a government to set the bar high so that our people can aspire to get there and I guess that's some of the things you're talking about when you talk about the fantasy and all of those things that's how you interpret it but I think it's about setting the bar high so our citizens can aspire can get try to get there so we want to use sports as a nation builder and our government is committed to that our mantra is building a new St. Lucia and building that new St Lucia requires organization it requires discipline it requires dedication and of course all of these features are inherent in sport so sports is about the present and the future it's about making things happen it's about people in action it's about organization it's about clubs and teams and clusters it's about rules and regulations it's about standards it's about caring and creating champions it's about competition it's about success it's about celebration it's about thrills and chills it's about bringing life and energy to individuals families and nations it's about building character to stand the test of time it's about freedom it's about letting go and grasping the opportunity to be the best that one can be this is the agenda that we are pushing as a government and we are confident that this new cluster zonal approach to development of our facilities will assist us in realizing that vision or that new direction now we know that facilities on their own my dear senator from the opposition we know that facilities on their own cannot do what we want or what I've mentioned there but let me assure that every one of the major facilities being built and that's just by the side will fall within the international standard regulations for them so let not your heart be troubled on that one thing I can guarantee you is that there will not be buildings stands on plain fields or where one is not able to see you understand sections of the plain areas that will not happen these are the mistakes of the past and that must never be repeated that is why we consult and continue to engage the majors players in sport and it is expected that at the completion of these facilities we will receive that necessary certification whether it be from FIFA or from the ITF any of the organizations that we facilitate we will get the international certification for these facilities so alongside the facilities now and I think you come into me I think you know mr mr my senator alongside the facilities is the investment in our human resources to build capacity for management and service delivery at all levels the schools the clubs the associations the local governments all of these to support the new thrust we are committed to a comprehensive integrated and evidence-based approach that incorporates sports participation and recreation survey that to formulate that sports strategy and plan we have begun and these are some of the principles we have begun some pilot projects with the afterschool programming communities with the objective of developing the right model for our communities we have to start from scratch we keep saying so to you you know the country was in a mess so we've had now to reorganize restrategize and now through the cluster approach we want to ensure that there's a greater number of areas being serviced by in terms of what we are doing so we respect that each of the national associations and the active recreation organizations have the primary responsibility for the determination of the direction and plans for the sport and of course we support them we accept that partnership partnership sorry are key to the sustainability of the efforts and we continue to engage we believe that the ethos of continuous improvement and evidence-based policy and practice should be adopted across all areas of sport and these are the principles that are most important to us because we want consistency in our programming sports organization facilitated networks its cements and build communities and regions it stimulates action it fuels competition it breaks down barriers it drives people and above all it restores confidence and revitalizes communities we recognize that that is why and that is what we want for our society so we are meticulously putting this framework together so that not only this generation of solutions can benefit but all those who come after can be proud of the legacy that we would have created for them and our society you know speaking of legacy another important dimension to our thrust for development of the facilities is the state of health of our people the state of health in this nation and it's no secret that our health system our health is in crisis and that did not stop stop now huh that did not stop now non-communicable diseases are threatening our population according to the world air organization and our very own ministry at least 70 percent of deaths as a result of non-communicable diseases you know and and and when we say non-communicable diseases we're talking about diabetes and hypertension and heart diseases you know these are all lifestyle diseases which can be controlled if people are knowledgeable and passionate about their own well-being and they actively participate in physical activity so the strategic remodeling that we will see with our sports facilities through this contribution will expand the user capacity of those facilities catering for a more diverse group of users it means that our amputees because I understood we have in two or three amputees per week you know it means that our amputees our power projects our paraplegic sorry who require support and who require systems with rehabilitation will benefit from those facilities thus offering venues of course that provide more inclusive programming for everyone it is this sort of provision that will broaden the mindset of the people on the ground so they can see as they look around how these facilities are being utilized by not only young people but people across all ages you understand in those communities it will also open up opportunities and possibilities for careers for our young people so now they can see that they could move into areas you know for sports around the sports facilities giving them of course more choices another critical dimension for us is the fact that we see sports as a passport out of poverty so we see it as a nation builder we see it as an opportunity with respect to our health and we also see it as a passport out of poverty unemployment and poverty remains major challenges for us according to the statistics department uh 38 percent of our young people are unemployed 38 percent yeah 20.2 percent nationally is what we what we what we have but when people are unemployed folks unemployed and poor there's a tendency for them to drift with low self-esteem and low confidence levels in some cases they even succumb to unsavory behavior patterns leading to involvement in crime and we see that yeah and we see that so we see sports as a great avenue to channel our people because it builds character it gives hope and it transforms lives and we all know that most of you and I know that so the investment here is an investment to say to our young people and our society and our society at large that sports can be used as a way out of the poverty that's why we are establishing the center of excellence in brosily to provide that clear pathway for those who wish to pursue sport as a career or even use it as a vehicle to achieve their life's ambitions speaking of achieving every saint lucian knows about the global achievements of darin sami levon spencer kimani melius you know and most recently julian alfred they all came from humble beginnings and the world now celebrates them the world celebrates them they are indeed our pride and joy and above all they are all great models for our country we also have world-class administrators as well you know we have richard pittakin who serves on the international olympic committee we have alfredi manuel who serves on the pan american games organization myself at the government games federation level in fact next june richard pittakin will be receiving the olympic order one of the highest orders that anyone can receive for administration in sports so we have athletes we have administrators now we need to pull our coaches and referees and and referees to be able to get to that level and so we've had some but we need to sustain that you know at the at the global level this message of being successful even against all odds is what must resonate within our country across our country and our young people and citizens in general must be inspired to believe that they can achieve whatever they aspire to and in government policies whatever we do the decisions that we make around the table we must leave our people with the confidence with the belief that they can do and they will do so the case for slasper is not just by the wayside the case for slasper is a case where we recognize that we have the competencies we have the skill sets we have the capabilities we have everything in there to manage and they will be denied that opportunity not right not right and so sports demonstrates that if you can you will do this is the new sedentary that we focus on building and we need all hands on deck including yours parents new groups you name it everybody needs to be on board with us the other thing getting important aspects of sports is that it open doors for our people you know when you assess those young champions that we have or even young people will give it an opportunity to participate the level of maturity and independence they display is phenomenal for many youngsters sports of a life changing opportunities and that for the first time or that that's the first time the adventure into the outside world you know many of them take the plane for the first time through sport many of them get a chance to to to travel globally at no cost to their parents you know I said I did that as well I did my first tinted studies and I didn't pay a cent but I went all the way on the other side of the world to Australia at somebody's expense the government of Australia I guess paid for it through our government here you know but there are opportunities that young people can get very early in life so that when they become my age they are confident showed themselves and not looking to go into any how they can say because they know who they are and that's what sports does it provides us in the opportunities so that the time we are 25 and 26 we saw it well established look at Darren Swami you know he went way beyond everybody in this country and succeeded and so we want to allow let young people see that this opportunity is available for them but they must want it they must reach for it they must fire and those of us who are leaders must create the vibe and the environment for them to know that they can get there that's what we must do that's our responsibility as leaders so the development of the facilities for stage in major events will offer opportunities in a wide array of areas for individuals organizations and businesses international events can be held in any part of the island as it is now we do Darren sami and well well Darren sami only but based on what we're doing with the cluster approach it means that there'll be more facilities that will be available for international events and more young people can get to see or more community people can get to see what is happening in sport so it's not just about the 32 million for infrastructure but it's what the infrastructure and the plan is to ensure that the communities are engaged and are part of that process to move the communities along so the other critical point is the whole question of building peace the promotion and understanding the promotion of understanding and fellowship that sports generates transcends the local community and it cuts right across national boundaries the tournaments the competitions the exchanges the shared learning opportunities that will be executed will also to deepen the integration among our people and enhance life in the communities building of course confidence providing a strong sense of identity and cohesion that will be felt way beyond the field of play and this is what we hope for as solutions we will continuously be part and what we want in terms of the hope is that we're continuously part of a society where peace abounds where peace and productivity abounds so madam president this plan that we have was drawn from extensive from the extensive network of sports hundreds of hours of consultation and i'm surprised that my friend came in on the back end of the consultation but hundreds of hours of consultation with key stakeholders and many volunteers who gave up their time to contribute to this directional thrust so we could not have done it when we were not in government when we came in the object was to meet everybody and begin that process and so we do we deal with processes we don't just deal with grandstanding now for now so it went through the process and we at this point now where we're looking for the financing to ensure that the plans begin to unfold yeah we certainly want to thank all the contributors the associations the communities and the business community in particular who will continue who we will continue to engage as we move ahead with this dynamic program for transformation of our society madam president i want to thank you for the time and i also want to take this opportunity to thank the citizens of this country who have been so supportive of this government of the people for the people and by the people i also want to take this opportunity to wish my colleagues and our communities particularly in castries east who remain patient for liberation day we really want to tell them a merry christmas and have a bright and prosperous new year thank you leader of opposition business thank you madam president um of course i listen well and i i noticed the other colleagues did not drum the table for the presentation made by my fellow senator but of course i would have i would have um retained mine until some questions answered a madam president the question was about why the borrowing but i listened to a presentation that at the starting of it seemed like we were opening some facility very detailed and then to the end of it i'm hearing as it as it were there is a strategy an action plan and therefore i asked then why in the budget to borrow for a strategy an action plan madam president because i understand and what has been said in this by the by this by the member the senate our senator member this has been echoed over and over as persons who have been around sports and i'm and it's not new i have not heard anything new to what has been said here nothing new this is this is this is really part of what we've consumed in in the in the discourse for years for years yes and of course as somebody who have been associated at the highest level as a permanent in in in the in her other life i understand the senator to be echoing eloquently some of the discussions that we have had over the years but it still begs a question why are we borrowing so much at this time madam madam president i support development in our youth i truly support the development of our youth and i would like to see that we produce modern summaries and love and spends and and some of our great i don't want to look at you you know not a bit some of our great sportsmen and women you understand i would like to see this but madam president this is what i'm afraid of in terms of the posture of this government and the approach to borrowing we would miss the opportunity madam president to satisfy and i'm using this almost like an analogy to satisfy a child with a tire tied in a gloveetry with a cement rope as a swing that would do the trick that would provide the satisfaction while we keep the child without a swing searching for millions of dollars to build a fancy looking slide and we would have missed when five years has passed madam president on a child's life five years without intervention and as i look across madam president i cannot help but my friend was at this camera his twin brother himself i saw them run they were very good athletes at a very early age they've been on it and i ask you've spent you've taken office five years has passed when five years has passed on a child's life it is significant very significant if the child is five and you've not invested over that five years that child becomes ten you've lost you've missed out on that child's development if the child is zero and you missed out investing on the child when the child reaches five you've missed out significantly and i understand maybe the government was waiting to come up with this Lockerbie solution that would solve and would catapult us into this new St. Lucia of sports that would create everything that we dream and hope for madam president i understand that members on this side needs to represent the government and as best as possible present the policies and defend it but sometimes it's very difficult to convince the listening public on this after we go into borrow forty something million dollars at this time when you have less time in you've spent more time in there than you have left to do and the children who are waiting for the investment three four years would have passed i asked myself why and how what was the procurement arrangement that landed the person who is leading this charge what did we did we advertise on some interest interested person who are willing to contribute the government of St. Lucia have a a strategy and action plan for sports and then you put it in the newspaper internationally and you ask persons who are willing you understand to present a paper how did we ended up with Lockerbie how did we you understand so i'm asking these questions madam president and when i said that we do not um i spoke of the capacity that we lack and i noticed a lot of persons i've made use to say that i'm saying that we we do not have slasper of course we have certain competencies but there are some capacities that we do not have and that it is to raise finance there's a difference between competencies and capacities you understand but you cannot say that we do not have the competencies to build public facility maybe we do not have the capacity to finance it you understand i don't know which one you're talking about oh yeah you're joining the fray i know well go ahead go ahead i am proud of myself and my business but i understand every time that i'm going to speak sense you're going to find ways to distract me but that is okay madam president i stand here to to make the point that if we're going to embark on defending a position where we're going to borrow that large amount of money to invest in sports at this time in the life of the of of this administration let us put it in proper perspective the the motion said for a strategy and action plan the leader of government business said it is really for infrastructure the presentation made by our senator seemed to have outlined the very thorough but a lot of it seemed to be information that has been there in documents from time in a moment we have been around those discussions you understand and i'm saying that it still begs the question how did we arrive with locker being as the one who is leading did he tendered what is the arrangement what was the procurement arrangement this is important because he is facilitating and leading it you understand it's important to us and i'm out i'm also asking at this point in time we have missed out in investing in the lives of our children we missed out on this and madam president as i close and this is the last thing i would say in this parliament for this year because i will not speak on the other on the other matters madam president and as we as we speak on the on our children our youth i think we need to remind ourselves and those of us who go about giving gifts madam president that when we going to consider in buying gifts for even children at this point in time let us buy things that will help them that will inspire them that will move them forward i see a lot of plastics have been purchased and dumping on our children in the name of toys but a lot of even the scripture says even a father of even parents know how to give the children good gifts and i think if we're going to give gifts to our children we want it to be something that will take them up inspire them to they could learn something i'm saying to members i don't give guns to children i wish i could give them laptops or something or book something that would inspire them so i'm leaving this as our last words and i'll say why we support investment in our youth we asking the questions why you're borrowing in the money which we're borrowing and if there's if it is for for an action strategy an action plan you clearly have outlined an action plan that has been existing for a lot for the longest while and there was no need for paying consultancies to do that wonderful minister of home affairs justice and national security thank you madam president i am very very surprised that um we are debating this motion so rigorously i remember many years ago and i remember the honorable mario michelle who at the time was i think minister of sports or education and england test team was supposed to visit the caribbean and celusia was emacked to host one of the matches at minnow philly park yes about 96 97 it was going to cost us a lot of money to do the renovations at minnow philly park to host that match and the honorable mario michelle indicated at that time that he wouldn't waste the money and minnow philly park but he'd prefer to build the boseju cricket field he was castigated for doing that why are you going to spend so much money to build the boseju cricket ground now named the daron sumi cricket ground when you could have had the match at minnow philly park today we see what daron sumi is that's a mecca of sporting stadiums in celusia that was foresight on his part this government is showing the foresight and don lockaby during the world cup in 2007 he was the one that was when he was introduced to celusia because he was the main man for cricket world cup so he had to come to celusia to make sure that the daron sumi ground was up to scratch madam president under the celusia labor party that's when don lockaby came to celusia as the as the ceo whatever of cricket world cup and he directed celusia and on tiga and the money in which they should they should um think the grass and everything at minnow at daron sumi ground so this was the first time that don lockaby was introduced to celusia so the united workers party did not go and look for him he was on the map he has he has a proven record and based on what the the minister of sports the honorable edmund estefan said in the low house very good detail as to why we we are borrowing this money and the money we are borrowing this time madam president is to finance and to implement the projects this is what is going to happen persons have criticized and said that um we are now looking at consultation but this is not so madam president it has been consult we have had consultations for over a year and a half if you speak to the president of the football association mr cooper he will tell you that nothing happens in celusia with football unless he is consulted and only day before i spoke to him and he said yes he has spoken to the gentleman on a number of occasions and and so the consultation has always been there we look at the strategy and we looked at our young people cricket football athletics table tennis volleyball which spot attracts the most attention in celusia which spot is more engaged with our young people and the question is the answer is very easy football all young people on the roads playing football yes we have great cricket we have some good cricketers like darin sami johnson charles and and the young um what's your name remember the young meleos kimani meleos we have but most of the times when you go to the sporting activity and you go to a football match there are thousands and thousands of young people following football we have a cricket match west indians is playing in celusia and you can barely fill in the grounds luckily for us i mean i suspect madame president that solutions fell in love with the west indian women team and we supported that's how we are the women so we follow them but football is the biggest spot in celusia so if we have a vision if we play cricket we have to play as a winward islands a solution have to first make the solution team then you make the winward islands then you have to play for west indians how often is that going to happen but football celusia plays football on its own so we play barbadas we play geomoney we play all the teams the last time celusia our youth team was supposed to have played at boseju against matnik when the officials came down and look at the ground and get still and and boseju is a top class ground they were not satisfied with the standard the match was moved to matnik don't you think madame president that the young persons these young footballers would have loved to play at the home where they would have gotten the crowd to support them couldn't they decide the results of the match a bit different had they played home and you're going to fault this government for trying to give persons the best playing facilities that is available the honorable shun edwards in the valley criticized the tough at astro tough field but the only one we have in celusia where is it in his constituency hypocrisy it's not good where is it it's not good fifa does not recognize it but the president of football association says that is what fifa wants in the days of my playing football we used to play six pegs six pegs as long as this when somebody hits you on your knee you're finished now we have gone through the now so that we play in with rubber pegs so that our young people do not get injured as easily as before we play football all our lives and what do the young people get there are no facilities for people to actually pay to come and watch the youngsters play if you collect some money our this our young footballers can get a stipend they can get insurance they know for a fact that they can go out there and give their very best if they get hurt at least the insurance will take care of them is this what we're saying that we don't want for our young people so that's the vision we have looked at if playing fields around celusia we have thousands of playing fields in celusia how does a government maintain all those played fields to a standard where our players our young people can be safe while they play while they participated in sports so we have decided and as a strategy that in every area of celusia district in celusia there's going to be a playing field that is international standard so no longer will be castries is only only only castries you're going to have national matches or international matches okay we're now going to spread it around so this time around we play in castries next time we in v4 the following day we suffer that is the procedure this is what we want to do so i am very surprised that we talk about borrowing 20 24 million dollars to spend on our young people who get themselves involved in all sorts of criminal activity but we are saying that that is too much money for a government to borrow to take care of the needs of our young people when it comes to sport and activities madam president i mean without any boast there are not many people in celusia who can say they were better sportsmen than me when i was when i was young i listened to my i listened to my colleague from from from me could that he was involved in sports and so on madam president i've represented celusia at five disciplines i have done it i've been there i've been an ambassador to celusia and that is why i was able to relate as a police officer because everybody knew me people would speak to me at all times now i'm minister is even better so i understand when i travel how to comport myself because sports gave me that discipline so sometimes and and and i'm i'm sorry that the leader of opposition business is not there he talked about giving sports giving gifts but if we don't have the money to give the gifts the best gift to a young man is for him to see a positive role model in us the politicians even that one and i and we're going to be happy so honestly i'm president there's so many things that we can talk about okay you talk about why is it is lockaby and i told you how lockaby came to be known in celusia but you spend three million dollars investigating the honorable guy joseph you bought a guy here called linguist where did he come from where did he come from how did he come did he apply the was a notice put out and said that we investigate the honorable guy joseph and we want an investigator and somebody tender you all look for him wherever he was he came there three million dollars up to a day like today there's not a report on the honorable guy joseph today we are doing things openly transparency somebody who is known to celusia somebody has a track record all over the world doing those sort of things for for governments but you are coming to the house and throwing all kinds of explosions that they are people who can do it and as as as my fellow colleagues said you go to the marigold field and there's a plate there's a what they call it changing room balance figure nobody has ever changed in that room i mean when you pass there you swear like well it's a it's a shed and it costs almost half a million dollars is that what we want that's what we want to give our young people to play when you look at the field at marigold we spend so much money on marigold so much money at ancillary when you go down you see the state of these fields it is it hurts my heart i used to go on and take a little run once in a while i cannot afford to do that but i'm president because if i go down i fall i'm finished but if they ask for a tough and the artificial tough come around i'll be one of the first persons to be going take a little sweat so i commend this to the government for making sure that we're making sure that our youth positively engaged to get away from the streets and crime and to go and channel your energies into playing sports i thank you so that's a good end all right thank you madame president i'm president um the motion on the on the floor at the moment speaks of the borrowing of 32 million 800 thousand us dollars um is it on us for sports and financing of the government budget madam president i heard a few moments ago the former ps and president of the national olympic association really going down on sports saying that sports was in a mess and all of a sudden it seems by some magic one after two and a half years sports will be given its right place in st lusia but what i know of if sports was in a mess in st lusia under her watch i'm trying to wonder how can it be something so good two and a half years into this government's way yeah but she was the ps she was the one in charge madame president on a point of order yeah i think you're misleading or you misleading the house um two years ago i retired from the government service and i left the government service i was not madame president yes i'd never i left the government service in 2015 and i joined the united workers party in 2016 and of course i run for public office so and two years on we are here presenting the strategy and new direction for the government of st lusia thank you so what senator gideon i have not i have not seen a discrepancy between what the minister has said and what you have said i think she's provided additional information but i haven't seen a discrepancy could you repeat what it is she molests is substantiating my point madame president because i said i never said that two and a half years of her ruling in in in the in the sports department i said she was the former ps and president of the national olympic association so i am saying that she said that was her word that sports in the country was in a mess that is what she said she said that madame president it can't be me saying anything wrong madame president i'm just trying to understand his basis for saying that because i think i was very clear i was very clear that the i was very clear that the differences between administrations is not there for me to compare and i would not do that i think the issue there for me is that we are now looking at a new strategy for the development of sports and that is what we are here to support and endorse and get the 42 42 million dollars more please continue and i never said sport is in a mess i would never do that because i was beneficiary of sports yeah so i need you to to go through hand side and see and i would like you to be joined at comment because it's not a comment i would make but it is what the lady said the senator said that i wrote on my document that is what she said what did i say country sports was in a mess in the country no i would never see that is what she said i read so you have a cop here go for your go for your it would never be written in there go for it that's not my style so i was very clear that i'm very respectful of people's contribution to the development of sports and i take strong offense to you indicating that i said that sports was in a mess madame president this is my this is my view on this please have a seat don't put words in my mouth senator give you and do you withdraw the statement we sit and is this madame president that i should withdraw that the that the minister said that sports was in a mess so you say that she never said that she's saying that she never said it i'm asking if you will withdraw it or not madame president i am quoting exactly what the senator said in her speech that is what she said she said that sports was in a mess in the country that's what she said so i'm going to ask us to get i'm going to ask the madame club that we get the script please i would not say please proceed senator gideon anyway madame president i'll continue madame president i am as an individual my studies every study that i've done has been in the field of sports both my first degree and my masters were done in sports and so i speak not from any her say position i speak from a learned position okay and a sports strategy madame president basically outlines first the way that we move on we develop sports and what do we do to develop sports and so on but as was spoken of rightly spoken of here it says that be it resolved that the minister takes the 24 million three hundred thousand dollars to finance a national sports infrastructure strategy and then we had a presentation by the line minister of sports of five distinct grounds that will be developed so i am saying yes we're just developing five grounds for sports but madame president two and a half years going into three years now before were they not sports grounds that were developed and could have been utilized for young persons in the in the in the um in st lusia what are all plain areas community areas were abandoned all of them you go to certain communities and then you have grass knee-high sometimes and cows and horses are to graze on them two and a half years so i know if i'm an aspiring sports individual two and a half years of doing nothing that's a lot of time that is lost a lot of time that is lost and it's not going to take two and a half years thereafter when i have a ground to go and train and whatever that means my development has been hindered it has been hindered and this is exactly what solutions are facing today those persons who are sports oriented their development have been hindered and it is not nothing strange the reason why we have so many problems now with our young persons in in in the country because they have nowhere to go and do the thing nowhere so if i am a government that's interested in the development of young persons i'm not going to wait until i have top-of-the-line grounds then i'll pass and say i give you top-of-the-line grounds so i expect you to be a top-of-the-line in afrit i will take it from them on and establish let them work give them an area satisfy them with a nice area where they would work and then i go on with my plans to develop further with my astrative and whatever the consequences of the astrative we are going to know later we are going to learn it later and i know that astrative the material that is made of is basically almost like a nylon kind of grass yeah nylon kind of grass i'm not beating on astrative i'm not beating on it it has its time it has its place where it could be and be done properly if it's done properly then it could benefit but i'm i'm saying before this two and a half years the youth in st luccia are suffering in denry for example there is absolutely nothing like football in denry nothing like football in denry so much so that denry who was once an aspiring community when it comes to football highly rated highly rated what happened they did paul in blackout there was a another tournament where it was like champions tournament held somewhere in the valley they failed at this why no opportunity for practicing foregrounds to practice nothing whatsoever and they failed miserably and they say they speak of it they speak of it so if denry and speak of it much less persons from other communities so what i'm saying if we are interested in our young people madam president if we are desirous of seeing our young people go forward why stifle them why stifle them two and a half years going to three years football is not played in denry period no kind of football is playing in denry apart from a few little boys you you put yourself in a corner poli develop grounds and then you you you play oh yeah please you see so the whole understanding of this loan what it is going to do and how denry is involved denry has two playing areas that i remember in the last administration before the liver party gain office we had a wonderful playing area cricket to play cricket in denry wonderful playing area in denry what happened the same people were saying that they're interested they allowed it to just grow out yes it was grown out of proportion we had persons taking care of these grounds they were released of the jobs go ahead we don't need you release of the job and this this few men there were two gentlemen in particular jadi and aijaman these guys on a daily basis would go on this ground and make sure that this ground remained and kept it its pristine level at the pristine level great ground i mean that is where english students would come and play cricket the english students would come and play cricket right there on the toes to san lusia mr roland cox would bring them to denry that was one of his chosen areas in denry to play right now go there nothing like cricket not a fly nothing nothing and we are interested in young people yeah this ground i mean and jadi and aijaman used to do their best at maintaining this ground they would have kept them there and they would have done their best and they would have a nice area to play yeah they came in what they said to them go you're not needing go and today now our young persons young professional what you hear you hear a gentleman comes in and says well look i'm going to put astro turf you're going to have an astro turf pitch in denry i live to see it i live to see it i love to see it well the one i don't think i don't know if cricket could be played on it i don't know but i would advise denryans don't play cricket on it i would advise them you know so madam president i'm saying that the initial things little things in this sports strategy an actual plan what is there for persons who would want not to be playing sports but they would want to make the involvement in sports make a reputation or make a job get a job out of a career out of sports whether you be a a course it would be a psychologist sports psychologist whether you be a therapist whether you be a coach a trainer or whatever is there an opportunity for persons who can say okay i could be in st russia i could take sports development as a career i could do sports training get an opportunity to go to school get a start off and then make one of the sporting disciplines get a career out of one of them that i may not play sports but i could at least administer my assistance my help my time in that aspect of sports because madam president this is playing sports is just about a facility not about just having a facility there is more to it than that there is more to it than that yeah and then when the time comes i'm hoping that this sports policy this sport strategy although 90 percent or 100 percent of what we've heard is strictly about developing grounds that is what i've heard and read developing grounds you said that our local grounds are not good so they're going to come covered up and then have it but madam speaker there's a course to it in our temperate climate in this climate of ours maintenance is a massive issue there in our tropical climate maintenance this grass has this thing has to be wet wet in order to temper the temperature the temperature on the ground before it's been playing so i'm hoping that we have sufficient water that when the time comes that we're going to water this playing area and then we have enough money that when the bill comes you will say okay we can pay that because there are serious issues serious problems with the steps it's not a matter of just it's nice yes it's beautiful it's nice it's great they are both medical and maintenance issues they are medical and maintenance issues you slide on this you get cut you slide you get cut there's no matter of knowing how to tackle there's no matter of knowing how to tackle because you can just inadvertently slide and and and then you get you get you get bruised you get bruised yeah so it's just no matter of coming and say well we're gonna build this you're gonna put this and that their consequences did all this thing well all these things taking into consideration so madam president i believe right now with all this grandest plan all of this grandest plan i'm concerned about the involvement of st lusians how many st lusians were involved and i need to ask the madam you are involved did you have an input in it you have an input in it okay nice nice you see so madam president i think that why is the ideas and the plans may look good may look good the underlying factors the underlying factors are what that i will consider underlying factors and i am of the view but a lot of time has been wasted three years almost three years have been wasted so that means that our young persons have missed out a lot quite a bit both on developing the physical skills and also maybe who knows they could have had an opportunity for a young person i mean i speak of denry we have the young talented footballers in denry but no opportunities to play who could have added somebody coming out there a coach come look at them say okay let me take you to my country to ply your trade because as i have said and i'm going to repeat what the senator said that i believe that for me i believe when i look at the whole sports sector when i look at sports on the whole i believe that sports right now sports is the only way out of poverty for a lot of us in st lusia a lot of young persons in st lusia sports is the way out for them sports is the way out for them and i think that the nine name almost three years is a lot the nine name almost three years is a lot because if you don't have access there's no way your skills could be sharpened there's no way your skills could be developed so i think madam president i am sitting quietly and i'm waiting at the development spoken of that sports strategy development infrastructural strategy i am waiting as i said some time ago to the minister of health i'm waiting at the monies and what is going to do i'm still going to wait on to see how is going to ship out that i know for sure denry 2019 would be still blank looking at the sports stadium in um sofra you have a development in you have one in miko if all of these things are done at the same time it's good then i would say denry will have his denry will have this on on in 2019 but i think that's like you know that's just the bright people there's nothing serious honestly as far as i said that's just setting a bright for young persons to just tell young persons we will we will we will and he will never see thank you madam president honorable leader of government business sorry madam madam president we don't need to you ask that the house be adjourned until 7 30 no no i'd ask that the the sitting on how it be suspended or to suspend standing order nine three to allow the house to continue sitting between 6 30 and 7 30 60 7 30 proceeding thank you yes thank you very much madam president madam president again i was hoping with these these motions that we were presented in the house today that it would have not evoked such debate because clearly madam president these projects these initiatives by the government is on behalf of the people of st lusia their development their economic and social development and it's very very disturbing madam president that the opposition would oppose or has opposed all of these motions something such important as a sports state stadium madam president there is such heightened opposition such heightened opposition madam president we are elevating the standard of sporting facilities but there we find again opposition to such madam president we have come to the final sitting of the house of the senate for this year madam president 2018 and madam president if i were to characterize the opposition in the senate and even outside of the senate madam president i would characterize them as the opposing opposition this government proposes the opposition opposes we have proposed many important programs and projects in this sitting and others and we get the same pattern from the opposition madam president when the opposition realizes that the projects and programs that we have proposed are vital for the development of st lusia and st lusians we have seen time and time again madam president that the attack we have seen madam president that they have they have attacked hoteliers they have attacked consultants they have attacked institutions today especially slasper madam president they have attacked even foreigners madam president it is a very such state of affair madam for us to witness every time we come into the house madam president to such to see such behavior of the opposition and when madam president they have nothing else to say as far as the programs and projects that we propose in this house they will oppose object to the amounts if it's too much they say it's too little if it's too little they will say it's too much madam president when we do it they say that we have wasted time when we haven't done it they say that it needs to be done we just cannot satisfy the opposing opposition so madam president with all that opposing of the various projects and programs by this administration i'm just wondering madam president if the opposition will attend the racetrack horse racetrack in the south will they madam president go through the urinary international airports when they're traveling out of st lusia will they be part of the sporting facilities throughout the country will they participate in the games will they go watch the games will they madam president madam president with the level of opposition by the opposition of course will they drive on our roads will they walk on our roads because they have criticized our road repair and rehabilitation they have madam president if a family member or friend benefits from the housing development projects will they go to these homes because they seem to be opposing everything that we have brought to this home to this house madam president will they use madam president make use of the ok e u hospital or st jude's hospital because they have opposed and keep opposing will they send the kids or the children will they send the the the the family member to schools because madam president it is a consistent opposing of everything we have proposed in this house by this opposition everything what next will they oppose madam president when i presented this resolution one of the first things i said is that the 12 million u.s. dollars and i made it clear will not be spent on any consultant i made it clear however i did not say that there will not be any consultancy it's a difference the 12 million dollars has absolutely nothing to do the consultant it has everything to do with the implementation of the project of the project the consultant will be paid on a different from a different source of revenue different source and i made it clear because madam president it is being said that Lockerbie was given a consultancy of 12 million dollars and that's the reason why madam president i made it clear that the 12 million dollars is not for consultancy or to pay a consultant it is strictly for the development implementation of these sporting facilities so madam president where are we now with this project we have completed phase one and the phase one involved the development of the master plan and the national sports strategy so madam president the plan and the strategy has already been been developed in stage one so now stage two involves the implementation of works and the purchase of goods and services in keeping with the national sports strategy that's what it is that's what it is so i'm hoping madam president this explanation brings clarity to the concern of senator foodie madam president i was surprised at when the question about the ec8 million 100 000 dollars being borrowed at this time for capital projects the question is again why so little money why so little money but madam president we have come into this house before and we have borrowed money for capital projects contained in the budget of 2018 2019 we have done we have done so before but looking at the fiscal year which has about three months left and looking at how much money or what needs to be spent or what needs to be done as far as capital projects are concerned we realize madam president we all we need at this juncture or to end the fiscal year is 8 million 100 000 dollars easy that's the reason why we are borrowing this it's contained in the estimates of expenditures for 2018 2019 so madam president i believe that i have addressed the major concerns of the opposition senate thank you very much madam president senators the question is that parliament authorized the minister for finance to borrow the sum of ec 32 million 400 000 from the bank of st lucer limited for the purpose of financing the 2018 2019 budget in the amounts of a ec 24 million 300 000 to finance the national sports infrastructure strategy and action plan and b ec 8 million 100 000 to finance the 2018 2019 budget be it further resolved that a the interest on each loan amount is payable at a rate of 4.5 percent per annum b a commitment fee of one percent is payable on the establishment of each loan amount c the loan amount of ec 24 million 300 000 is repayable at ec 1 518 750 per quarter for four years inclusive of interest up to ec 385 308 576 and 71 cents per quarter on a reducing balance basis d the loan amount of ec 8 million 100 000 is repayable at ec 506 250 dollars per quarter for four years inclusive of interest up to ec 102 858 and 90 cents per quarter on a reducing balance basis i now put the question as many as are of that opinion say i as many as are of the contrary opinion say no i think the eyes have it the eyes have it bills honorable leader of government business madam president i beg to move the first reading of a bill shortly entitled international trust trust repeal international trust repeal honorable leader of government business madam president i beg to move for the suspension of standing order number 49 to to allow the bill to go through its remaining stages and at this setting senators the question is that standing order number 49 to be suspended in order to allow the honorable leader of government business to proceed with the remaining stages of the bill at this sitting i now put the question as many as are of that opinion say i as many as are of the contrary opinion say no i think the eyes have it the eyes have it leave is granted proceed honorable leader of government madam president i beg to move for the second reading of a bill shortly entitled international trust repeal madam president we recall that on november 20th of this year the house considered amendments to a suit of legislation this was necessary for compliance with the organization of economic cooperation and development OECD and the european union EU tax good tax governance standards the amendments were two one international trust two international partnership three international business companies four free zone five automatic exchange of financial account information six companies and seven madam president income tax act the amendments by the president to the international trust and international partnership acts had the effect of making the legislation inoperable after june 30th 2021 in addition legislation is required to repeal these acts the government madam president now submits the international trust repeal acts and later on madam president the international partnership acts the effect of these acts is to repeal them in the in their name as of june 30th 2021 honorable senators the question is that the international trust repeal bill we read a second time i now put the question as many as are of that opinion say aye as many as are of the contrary opinion say no i think the eyes have it the eyes have it and act to repeal the international trust act cap 12.19 we'll take it close by close close to repeal close to stands part of the bill close one short title close one stands part of the bill senators the question is that the committee rise and the bill be reported i now put the question as many as are of that opinion say aye as many as are of the contrary opinion say no i think the eyes have it the eyes have it senators i beg to report that the international trust repeal bill went through committee stage without amendments honorable leader of government business madam president i beg to move for the first reading of a bill shortly entitled international partnership repeal madam president i beg i madam president i move that a report of the committee be adopted and the bill and the bill be read a third time and passed senators the question is that the report of the committee be adopted and that the international trust repeal bill be read a third time and passed i now put the question as many as are of that opinion say aye as many as are of a contrary opinion say no i think the eyes have it the eyes have it be enacted by the queen's most excellent majesty band with advice and consent of the house of assembly and the senate of st russia and by the authority of the same as follows this act may be cited as the international trust repeal act 2018 honorable leader of government business madam president i beg to move for the first reading of a bill shortly entitled international partnership repeal international partnership repeal honorable leader of government business madam president i beg to move for the suspension of standing order 49 to to allow the bill to go through its remaining stages at this sitting senators the question is that standing order number 49 to be suspended in order to allow the honorable leader of government business to proceed with the remaining stages of the bill at this sitting i now put the question as many as are of that opinion say aye as many as are of the contrary opinion say no i think the eyes have it the eyes have it leave is granted proceed honorable leader of government business madam president i beg to move the second reading of a bill shortly entitled international partnership madam presidents the explanation i gave earlier with reference to the international trust repeal bill applies equally to this bill honorable senators the question is that the international partnership repeal bill be read a second time i now put the question as many as are of that opinion say aye as many as are of the contrary opinion say no i think the eyes have it the eyes have it and act to repeal the international partnership act cap 12.21 again we will take it close by close close to repeal close to stands part of the bill close one short title close one stands part of the bill i now put senators the question is that the committee rise in the bill be reported i now put the question as many as are of that opinion say aye as many as are of the contrary opinion say no i think the eyes have it the eyes have it senators i beg to report that the international partnership repeal bill went through committee stage without amendments honorable leader of government business madam president i moved that the report of the committee be adopted and the bill be read a third time and passed senators the question is that the report of the committee be adopted and that the international partnership repeal bill be read a third time and passed i now put the question as many as are of that opinion say aye as many as are of a contrary opinion say no i think the eyes have it the eyes have it be conducted by the queen's most excellent majesty bandwidth advice and consent of the house of assembly and the senate of st lucia i'm by the authority of the same as follows this act may be cited as the international partnership repeal act 2018 honorable leader of government business madam president i beg to move the first reading of a bill shortly entitled gaming control amendment gaming control amendment honorable leader of government business madam president i beg to move for the suspension of standing order 49 to to allow the bill to go through its remaining stages at this sitting senators the question is at standing order number 49 to be suspended in order to allow the honorable leader of government business to proceed with the remaining stages of the bill at this sitting i now put the question as many as are of that opinion say aye as many as are of a contrary opinion say no i think the eyes have it the eyes have it leave is granted proceed honorable leader of government business madam president i beg to present for the second reading of a bill shortly entitled gaming control amendment honorable senators the question is that the gaming control amendment bill be read a second time i now put the question as many as are of that opinion say aye as many as are of the contrary opinion say no i think the eyes have it the eyes have it an act to amend the gaming control act cap 13.13 again by clauses clause 2 interpretation clause 2 stands part of the bill clause 3 amendment of section 1 clause 3 stands part of the bill clause 4 amendment of section 2 clause 4 stands part of the bill clause 5 amendment of section 4 clause 5 stands part of the bill clause 6 amendment of section 5 clause 6 stands part of the bill clause 7 amendment of section 8 clause 7 clause 7 stands part of the bill clause 8 Amendment of section 11. Close eight stands part of the bill. Nine. Close nine. Insertion of new sections 11A to 11C. Close nine stands part of the bill. Nine. Close 10. Amendment of section 12. Close 10 stands part of the bill. Nine. Close 11. Amendment of section 13. Close 11 stands part of the bill. Nine. Close 12. Amendment of section 14. Close 12 stands part of the bill. A.A. A.A. A.A. A.A. A.A. A.A. A.A. A.A. A.A. A.A. A.A. A.A. A.A. A.A. A.A. A.A. A.A. A.A. A.A. A.A. A.A. A.A. A.A. A.A. A.A. A.A. A.A. A.A. A.A. 17 stands part of the bill. Close 18. Amendment of section 20. Close 18 stands part of the bill. Close 19. Amendment of section 22. Close 19 stands part of the bill. Close 20. Amendment of section 24. Close 20 stands part of the bill. Close 21. Amendment of section 25. Close 21 stands part of the bill. Close 22. Substitution of section 28. Close 22 stands part of the bill. Close 23. Insertion of new part 4A. Close 23 stands part of the bill. Close 24. Amendment of section 30. Close 24 stands part of the bill. Close 25. Insertion of new section 30A and 30B. Close 25 stands part of the bill. Close 26. Substitution of section 33. Close 26 stands part of the bill. Close 27. Amendment of section 34. Close 27 stands part of the bill. Close 28. Amendment of section 37. Close 28 stands part of the bill. Close 29. Amendment of section 38. Close 29 stands part of the bill. Close 30. Amendment of section 39. Close 30 stands part of the bill. Close 31. Amendment of section 41. Close 31 stands part of the bill. Close 32. Insertion of new section 44A to 44E. Close 32 stands part of the bill. Close 33. Substitution of section 47. Close 33 stands part of the bill. Close 34. Insertion of new section 49A. Close 34 stands part of the bill. Close 35. Substitution of section 51. Close 35 stands part of the bill. Close one. Close 36 stands part of the bill. Close one. No, okay, go ahead. Okay, go ahead. Okay, let it look. Listen, I think it looks up to 40. Close 37 stands part of the bill. Close 38 stands part of the bill. Close 37 stands part of the bill. Close 38 stands part of the bill. Amendment. I was waiting for you. Close 37 stands part of the bill. Substitution, section, no. Madam clerk. Close 36 stands part of the bill. Close 36. Insertion of new section 51A and 51B. Close 36 stands part of the bill. Close 37. Substitution of section 53. Close 37 stands part of the bill. Close 38. Amendment of section 55. Close 38 stands part of the bill. Close 39. Amendment of schedule. Close 39 stands part of the bill. Close 40. Insertion of new schedule two. Close 40 stands part of the bill. Close one. Short title. Senators, the question is that the committee rise and the bill be reported. I now put the question, as many as are of that opinion say aye. As many as are of the contrary opinion say no. I think the ayes have it, the ayes have it. Senators, I beg to report that the gaming control amendment bill went through committee stage without amendments. Honorable leader of government business. Madam president, I move that the report of the committee be adopted and the bill be read a third time and passed. Senators, the question is that the report of the committee be adopted and that the gaming control amendment bill be read a third time and passed. I now put the question, as many as are of that opinion say aye. As many as are of a contrary opinion say no. I think the ayes have it, the ayes have it. Be interacted by the queen's most excellent majesty. Ban with advice and consent of the House of Assembly and the Senate of St. Lucia. And by the authority of the same as follows. This act may be cited as the gaming control amendment act 2018. Honorable leader of government business. Madam president, before I adjourn this sitting, I would like to, yes, before I move to adjourn this Senate, Madam president, I would like to convey my greetings to, first of all, to you, Madam president, for your, so you have done an excellent job. I like the way you control the House, the Senate. You take good control, Madam president, especially all of us. And I would like to thank my colleagues, Senators, both on the opposition and government and of course the independent Senators for the insightful and very, you know, informative debates we have witnessed here through the year 2018, the fiscal, well, the year 2018. I do want to also thank, Madam president, the, my prime minister. I believe we have a visionary prime minister, Madam president, very, very compassionate, one who means business, Madam president, and he goes after what he wants. And he puts his parliamentarians and his ministers to work. And my president, Madam president, I believe he's very, very happy with the accomplishments that we have gained throughout 2018. So I want to wish him well. I want to wish his family well, Madam president. And I want to wish the people of St. Lucia well in the new year and of course, during this festive season. I want to take time now out, Madam president, publicly to thank my family, especially my lovely wife and my sons for the support throughout the year. And I know that I will have the continued unwavering support as we move in the year 2019. And most of all, Madam president, I give thanks to my creator, my maker, my sustainer, and my redeemer for taking me through the year 2018. And I know that he has great plans for me and I rest my hands in his hands and I walk behind while he follow, while he lead Madam president. And I know that he will do wonders for us in the year ahead. Madam president, I am very thankful that we were spared any natural disasters in this year. You know what happened in Dominica and the other Caribbean islands last year. And it is always something we have to be thankful for when we have spared natural disasters. And we know the extent of the damages that they can cause. So Madam president, I wish everyone a merry Christmas, a festive season, Madam president and a prosperous and a healthy 2019. Thank you. Madam president, I move that the Senate- One minute, one minute to answer. Yes. We may have some business to take care of. We'll have to deal with the handset at the next sitting since it's not ready yet. And I wish you all also a very merry Christmas and I look forward to your continued cooperation. Honorable leader of government business. Madam president, I move that the Senate stand adjourned. Senators, the question is that the Senate do stand adjourned. Senators, I now put the question. As many as are of that opinion see aye. As many as are of a contrary opinion see no. I think the ayes have it, the ayes have it. Sitting adjourned.