 We're back. We're live. I'm Jay Fidel here on Think Tech Community Matters. Full disclosure, I have just graduated from the Ornish Program at Stroud Medical Center. These are my friends and buddies. They know more about me than my wife does. Whoa! So let me introduce to you the first three of our program today, which is the Ornish Program at Stroud, OPS. To my immediate left, Rae-Leen Norland. She's a project director, program director for the Ornish Program in Stroud. There are other programs, Ornish programs, elsewhere. Yes, there's one other. Okay, and to her left, Michelle Tom, our favorite dietitian, a registered dietitian. Yeah! I learned so much from you. Okay, and then Megan Cacho. She is group support in the Ornish Program at Stroud. Welcome to the show, all you guys. It's like a reunion, isn't it? Yeah, we got so close. I felt that I knew you. I know you forever. It's not just then or now. It's forever. You guys bonded together. Fabulous program. Fabulous program. Let me tell you what. I see it as a program for people who are recovering from heart disease, but other medical things that happen when you're getting old and weak, whatever. This program reinvigorates you. It makes you find your health. It makes you find your health personally, in terms of mindfulness and all that. And Rae-Leen is big in that one. I'm going to talk about that. And also in stress management, because stress kills, stress is really bad. And food, food is so important. I'm doing this in a sequence, you know. This is a sequence. We met Tuesdays and Thursdays for four hours for nine weeks, and it was always this way. Actually, the thing about the group support, that was at the end. The beginning was the exercise, which was very important. So they got great facility, beautiful, clean, wonderful, and lots of water. Never go dehydrate. And they got a kitchen there, and they cook food for you. Dinner is thrown in. Fabulous. Thank you, HLSA. And Michelle is in charge of that. She does that. She makes the food. The third part is the stress management part. Wait. Now, it's the second part. I'll see how quickly you forget. And the fourth part is the group. And they're all, well, are they all the same, really? Just one more important than the other? No. The program wouldn't be complete unless you have all four. Yes. Well, how do they play together? Well, you know, first of all, you do need to have your exercise, and you do need to have your good nutrition. And then the stress management helps you to deal with the stresses in your life, because a lot of times people will eat because of stress, and they'll eat the wrong things. And then group support, a lot of people have things that are hidden inside of them or that they can't talk about. And this allows people to share their true feelings with each other and get bonded. She's fabulous. You know, in that group discussion, she made us all friends. We came to a certain spiritual place that was most wonderful. And a lot of people just never had that experience in their whole lives. I hope you don't realize what a gift you give people. Well, it's nice because you can cry, and yet you can laugh at the same time, so it's nice. It's all about feelings. Right. And it's not only for older people, like you say. It's also for some young people who do have chronic disease. How in the world did you get into this? I wanted to be on the other side. I was in the ER for many years, and the OR, and I wanted to be on the side to prevent them from going to those places. And I love it. Yeah, well, you should, because the whole experience is so positive and so totally positive. You take your life on one level. You know, the everyday life, okay? That's one thing that's called a seven. And then you go to the Ornish program. That's a ten. Okay. You know, it's materially better. And what happens, you know, is that while you're in the process, and hopefully thereafter, your life is improved, and it's not just health. It's the total picture, the total package. Yeah. And we encourage you to continue meeting with each other after you've graduated from the program. Yeah. I'm waiting for that. The reunion. We have our reunion in August, you know? Yeah. And, you know, tell you the truth. I mean, we're all strangers. The people in the cohort were all strangers. And yet now, with your help, we're bonded, you know? I'm waiting to run into other members of the cohort in the grocery store and see what happens. Check out their shopping cart. Well, that takes us to food, doesn't it? Okay. By the way, Michelle, you are a great lecturer. Thank you, Jay. Thank you. You're so responsive. And also, you know, within the boundary of being vegan, you're a great cook, too. I think the Ornish program has made me a better cook. Yeah. So why does it like to be a dietitian? I mean, do you follow your own advice? I do, for the most part, yeah. Try to eat healthy as much as possible. Do have slips here and there, but for the most part, since you can feel the difference after what you eat, that's why I've learned that healthy eating is what I try to do the most of the time. Yeah. Well, you know, the thing about it is I didn't really think that I would be able to stick on it. But I did. For nine weeks, I stuck on it. Yeah. And then I got my graduation certificate, which I'm putting in COLA. And, you know, you're going to continue to do this. This is pretty strict stuff, you know, vegan diet and all that stuff. But I go to parties, and I explain everybody, you know, my limitations, and they buy it. And they say, what did you get that from? And I tell them, I got that from Ornish. That's where I got that whole story. I tell everybody, I'm telling everybody now. But I have to make a full disclosure. Okay. Tortilla soup is one of the favorite things in my life. Okay. Okay. So I went here in the building in the Pioneer Plaza, and I saw some tortilla soup, and I didn't think, I didn't think, and I got to a small bowl of tortilla soup. Okay. Okay. And then I eat it, you know, I love it. I love the taste of it. I get to the bottom and there's chicken. There were two strands of chicken. Michelle is going to find out about this. It's confession time. But, you know, the thing is that, you know, you're not all that tough about it. You give me room, you give all of our cohort room, and they can make their own decision about to say they don't have to live in fear. Right. So the way that we think about it is that the program is supposed to be about lifestyle changes. So occasionally you might slip up, but overall most of the patients are making healthy lifestyle choices from what they were doing before. So that's the main focus for us as the staff. Well, and you know, and you also teach the reason, the reason for it and the biochemistry of it. It's really important and the labeling issue and all that. Yeah. And I'm sure I told you at one point or another or maybe many times that I walk into a grocery store now it's different for me. I walk in, I see a ramble patch, a barbed wire. You got to watch out for everything on the shelf. You know, I mean the American diet is terrible. I know. Marketing can be very deceiving too. So very important to look at nutrition labels. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, that was great. I learned so much. Good. I don't think it was temporary. I think it was permanent. Good. So it must be, it must be somewhat gratifying for you to have achieved a permanent behavior modification. It is, it is. It's good to see that the program really has a lasting effect on patients. How did you get into this? I was actually always interested in the preventative side of medicine. So I had worked inpatient as a dietitian, but I always questioned what if there are things that you can do before so that you don't even have to be on the inpatient side. So that's why I explored, especially the Ornish route, because it is more of the preventative route to prevent people from having to go to the ER or get surgery. So that's my interest. Yeah. And, and boy, that's, it leaves to a quality of life on many levels, many levels. Yeah. You know, and it's not, it's not a hard price to pay. I don't think so. Yeah. To think of the, all the trouble you'll be avoiding if you follow these, these vegan rules. Right. So I never eat anything with eyes. Okay. Good. Okay. That's good. That's good, Jay. No more confession time like that. Sorry, yeah. So, Megan, now you let me, you let me work with Braylene, right? Yes. Yes. So I wanted to actually add to something that you mentioned a little while ago about, you know, bringing together strangers and the effect that it has on you in terms of the group support element that, you know, it is amazing. That's something that I love about the program is that you bring together people that, from all backgrounds, from all, you know, types of careers, family upbringings, and somehow, you know, when you create a safe and confidential space for people to share how they're feeling, that people open up and they find that, you know, someone actually said this today, instead of being so different from one another, we realize how, how common and, and how relatable we are to each other, how many similarities we have. Yeah, in the right environment, you can really, you can put 10 chimpanzees together and they'll end up alive, you know. Yes, exactly. Exactly. No, so like Braylene said, we have a lot of fun, you know, sometimes there are tears and, you know, there are things that we talk about that may be difficult to talk about in other scenarios or environments, but we also have a lot of fun. We laugh and we cry together and, and we just, we bond. So I have to ask you a question. I was, I was meaning to ask, you know, through the program, do you keep records of the dynamic of the group, the dynamic of what people say, what they're, you know, thinking about? We don't actually write down what people are actually sharing with us, because that is confidential. The only time we do document something, you know, other than you participate it is if there's something that's a red flag for us that you might need additional help, additional counseling, but other than that, occasionally. Yeah. Other than that, it goes into the medical record that you did participate with us and your physician can then look it up and see. I can't wait, I'm seeing my physician next week, long, long planned meeting. I can't wait to tell my physician about my experience at Orange. She's the one recommended it, you know, and I got a, I'm going to bring her flowers. Everybody gets flowers, yeah. Good, then we have to come see us and tell us what she said. And I will. At the rendezvous, I mean, the reunion, yeah. So, you know, but, you know, you say, Megan, that, you know, the group has sort of its own, its own integrity, its own life. It comes together, all true. And I've never been in a group before. I was in a group when I was a graduate counselor in law school, but that didn't count. But now this was a real group, and this was really interesting. And what amazed me, what, you know, when it first happened, first time, is the going around in a circle, everybody's seeing, you know, what's on his mind or her mind. And then, Rene, who is running the group, she tells you what's on her mind. Yeah. Wait a minute. Yeah. You're part of the group, aren't you? Absolutely. You surrender, you submit. Doesn't matter what your position is, as a program director, you submit. Yeah, not there to judge, you're there to participate with you. Yeah, yeah. You're not just an observer, you know. I love that. That really made it work. It made it work. Yeah, that's the uniqueness of it. And that's, I think, the power of it as well, you know, as staff members, we're also participating as well. So I think it also helps the participants to feel more comfortable when they're in a group. Yeah, so we get to know Rene. We know her as well as she knows us. This is the democratization of sorts, you know. Well, the other thing that we didn't touch on is that we all went through the program ourselves. We had to do it for 90 days. So when we try to teach what the program is about, we know what we're talking about because we've lived it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, can I do that, too? Now that I'm a graduate, can I join? Well, you know, that's necessary. My cohort, they all wanted to continue. It was okay, just continue. Can we keep going forever? You know, and unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. All good things must come to an end. Although I told you, you know, I was thinking of locking the door from the outside so we couldn't leave. But what do you get in terms of the outcomes on this? I mean, they come back to you, they talk to you, they share with you how it affected them going forward afterward. What do you get? Well, we get that a lot of times their medication has been cut, either completely cut out or cut into the dosage. A lot of the diabetics, their insulin has been cut, sometimes in half, sometimes they don't even have to take it anymore. And they feel better, they look better, the ones that have a lot of support at home, they tend to be able to continue with the program. And their families also, you know, end up joining them. And I also think that you provide the tools for somebody to continue himself or herself. You know, it's not, you don't fall off the end of the world. You do have at least a perception change in your life that helps you going forward. And certainly, you have a diet change. You want to see my refrigerator? Let me tell you about my refrigerator. Okay, tell me about it. Okay, it's got, well, outside now, it's got this huge, big protein thing. Oh. Which comes from Costco. You know, about 10 pounds of protein. Okay. You need protein. I know this. I learned so much. I'm a guy who never knew anything about these things. Now I'm educated, right? And I've got peanut butter, thanks to really, and I got huge, two huge gizmos of peanut butter, PV peanut butter, it's powdered peanut butter, it's very, you know, safe. Yes, safe. As opposed to regular peanut butter. I've got fruit and vegetables, good. And I brought out my Vitamix. Good for you. My Vitamix is there. Okay. Are you making smoothies? I'm just about to start. I'm assembling all the ingredients for the smoothies. Okay, okay. Good. So you see, Megan, this has had a change in me and I would bet you 10 bucks it has had a change in everyone in the group because we were so together and so liked each other. I mean, with no exceptions. You know, if you take 10 people in the street or in business or, you know, in the dosy dough of your daily life, you're not going to like them as well as you do in the Ornish program. But in terms of the staff in the Ornish program, we love them all. We love you guys. Thank you. And I feel bad now that we have to take a break and switch you out. But with your permission, we're going to take a break and switch you right out. Switch right out. Thank you Megan. Thank you Michelle. Thank you. Thank you so much. Hawaii from think tank. Some say scuba divers are the poor man's astronaut. At dive heart, we believe that to be true. We say forget the moon. Dive heart can help children, adults and veterans of all abilities escape gravity right here on earth. Search diveheart.org and imagine the possibilities in your life. In 2001, dive heart has helped children, adults and veterans of all abilities go where they have never gone before. Dive heart has helped them transition to their new normal. Search diveheart.org and share our mission with others. And in the process, help people of all abilities. Imagine the possibilities in there. Okay, we're back. We're live. I'm still J Fidel. Nothing has changed. And I still feel the same way about the Ornish program since the first segment of this show. And we hear on community matters. We're talking about the Ornish program at Stroud, which I think is probably, although it's part of a sort of a program that goes all over the country and all over Hawaii, I think the one at Stroud, super, super duper. You guys, super duper. Well, thank you. You have about you an air of excellence. And I loved all of you. I still do. I love them too, everybody. It was a great, great group. And you so kind, kind of being the operative word to us, you know, because people are vulnerable. They come in the program. They don't know what to expect. They don't, you know, whether it's going to hurt them or whether they can manage, you know, and Sarah didn't even mind if I fell asleep during the yoga thing. She was so kind to me. And the kindness that you exhibited was viral. What I noticed early on in the program was that you were kind. You went out of your way to be kind to everybody. And they, in turn, became kinder to themselves, to the other people in the room. It was, it was infectious. Did you intend it that way? By the way, let me introduce you first. Thank you. Okay, that's Jason Jones. He's the EP. What's the EP's name for? Exercise Physiologist. I knew that. The Stroud Honors Program. Okay. Next to him is Brandy Romeis, case manager of the Honors Program at Stroud. Hi, Brandy. Hi. You're beautiful, Brandy. Okay. And Sarah LaVallée, also beautiful. She is the stress management person in the Honors Program at Stroud. Yeah. Boy, you showed me how to not be stressed. Good. You know, I may have looked like I was sleeping, but actually I was, you know, taking all that stress off. Yeah. Exactly. I'll show you how to do that sometime, Jason. Thank you. Please do. Okay. What does the EP do? We take care of the exercise portion of the full hour class. So we bring individuals in, we assess where they are currently function-wise, how well they can move, how hard they can move, and then help custom tailor an exercise program. That's right for them. Yeah. Custom being the operative word. Custom. Because I know you're looking at everybody individually. You know, and that's the best way to deal with people. Treat everybody as an individual. Don't profile anybody. Don't sue anything to an individual. And I felt that was the case with me. I, you know, and everybody wears these heart monitors and you're always watching them. I want to be sure that it's within parameters. Absolutely. Everyone is EKG monitor. We look at everyone's heart rhythm, heart rate, blood pressure, and then perceived exertion. So you, we work together. You tell us how hard you perceive the intensity so we can dial it in that's most appropriate for you as well as safe for you. Yeah. Yeah. And you're watching us. We're watching you. I know you, you seem to be busy at your test, but I know you are watching us. That's right. In kindness. That's like your parents always said, you know, they may be looking away when they have eyes in the back of their head or always watching you. Well, you know, you have to imagine, I don't know how it is in the other orders facilities, but this is a big room. And it's got sort of an anti room, a side room, if you will, where the stress manager takes place and then the food takes place and then the group group thing. There's a long room, sort of longer than wider. And that's, that's a lot of action there. But outside in the larger room, all this physiological stuff, and they were nice machines too, I must say. Brand new. Say to the art. Yeah. Yeah. You selected them. Yeah. My health. My health, yeah. Expensive. Little bit. Yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, you gave me a regimen that was just right for me. And I have to, I have to continue that now. That's my, that's my great challenge. Not the food so much, but continuing the exercise. Yeah. You know, it's so easy to get sidetracked on things you have to do every day. What's your advice? Make it enjoyable so it's sustainable. Before the intermission, we were in the side over there listening on the conversations and you said something that really impacted all of us that when the program ended, you didn't want it to end. And like you say, we planted that way and you add the programs by design. We make the program enjoyable and then it's sustainable. True. It was totally enjoyable and you don't want to give it up and you feel there's such value there that you want to recapture the whole gestalt of it. So, you know, it's a madness with a method, I'm sure. It's always a method, yes. I mean, it's very well, very well organized program. And you know that there are, there's a lot of thoughtful things that went into designing and not only the individual components, the four components we talked about, but the interrelationship of those components. Right. And you were there, really. You saw me. You checked my pulse, you nice person. What's it like for you? Well, it's good. It's fun. I get to see the participants from the beginning of the journey all the way to the end. So, I do the interviewing, bringing them in, making sure that they're safe to participate and keeping in communication with physicians for the duration of the program to keep you guys safe throughout. Yeah, talk about make sure that, you know, sort of vet them to make sure they're properly in the program. I was at a party last week and I tell people, I tell everybody about my experience with you guys. It was in a party and I told this one woman, you know, that I was in the owner's program. She said, I'm so envious. She said, I tried to get in. I couldn't get in. I said, try again. He tried. Don't try to stay healthy. Be thankful. Anyway, how did you get into this? Started off as a physical educator, studied kinesiology and undergrad. I had the unique opportunity to go and tour the Human Performance Lab in Indiana, Abol State, where they do a lot of cardiac rehab research. I fell in love with what I saw and the rest is history. I'm here now. Yeah. Works well. Works well. You know, I felt that all through the nine weeks. You know, you were doing exactly what you put on this planet to do. I have a passion for it. Don't stop. I will. Yeah. You too, Brandy. Okay, Sarah. Sarah. You know, she went out and got, she went out and got a special loudspeaker to sing. Just for you. Because I couldn't hear her. Just for me, really. I mean, that was a nice thing. That was the kindness I've been talking about. You were so kind. You know, and then the stress management program, I guess there's sort of yoga equipment, you know, you get a mat and get a sheet and some pillows to do yoga with and standard equipment in yoga. But you helped me, you know. And then I noticed that everybody was helping everybody, you know, was laying it out and folding it up and all that. Everybody was a mutual, was a mutual admiration society. It's not that easy to achieve that in a group of strangers, you know. Yeah, that's true. It's kind of a unique environment. Yeah. And then you made me go to sleep with your soft voice. What's it like doing, you know, these yoga classes? Well, this is definitely different than other places that I teach, because you're with the same participants for the nine weeks. And it's really interesting, you know, there's like the weight loss aspect of it, but there's also the stress loss aspect of it. And you can actually see it come off of people's faces over the course of the nine weeks. I noticed their faces changed. They looked healthier. They looked more relaxed. Yeah. And they said in the group discussion, they said they were able to cope better with things that might have made them angry before. Yeah. The skills that we teach not only physically release the stress from your body, but it's connected as well with your breath, with your emotions. There's actually a deeper level of release that comes as well. So it's really rewarding to watch. You guys aren't nervous here, you know, in the Think Tech Studio, Zion? Not at all. Because if there was any shred of that, Sarah and I would show you how to... Can we practice? Yeah. Together. Yeah, together. Sarah, you lead. Okay. Inhale over your head. Bring your palms together. Big breath in. And as you breathe out, soften your throat. Bring your hands down to your heart. Good job. How did you get involved in this? Kind of interesting. I started out as a long-distance runner in college. So did I, but look what happened. And I started studying breathing techniques and meditation because I enjoyed the way it relaxed me from running, my body, my mind. And so I just started researching it more, studying it more, and kind of was teaching this type of yoga before the Ornish program started. So it was really a nice transition into something I was already really passionate about. And you do it in other contexts also, not just in the Ornish program, yeah? I do. Yeah. I teach a couple of different places around the island, but primarily at Ornish and for the staff of HPH. So how does the stress management thing work with the other things, with the exercise and with the group and with the food and the meals? Well, if you remember the stress management lecture. Of course I do. I'm asking a question to which I already know the answer. So the process of stress actually creates hormones in your body that can kind of be extracted through your organs when the stress response is activated. So what we work with is changing the stress response, changing our response to stress. It's also been shown to increase your exercise capacity, kind of learning how to pace yourself, learning how to work out within your breath. And so that's included in the program for a lot of different reasons. Yeah, and I noticed this as a sequence, it's really important here, right? You start out with the exercise, you know, you shed all that tension which you've had. You're working out and you're focusing on the exercise and, you know, on the stress of the exercise instead of the stress of your daily life. Okay, then you go to the stress management and you deal with maybe more mental, more breathing kind of, right? And when you're done with that, you go to the food and you feel replenished and you learn stuff and these great lectures and movies. Okay, and then you go, you know, thus, thus satisfied. Then you go to the group and you let it all hang out. And all of that sequence, my right, is a premeditated sequence. That's not an accident. It works together. It works together. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'd say, you know, Sarah, the thing about it is that I always, from the very beginning, I wondered if this was going to have an immediate effect on the stress level in my life. I wondered about that. And after a while I realized that it was subtle. It's not obvious. It's subtle. If you shed stress, you don't necessarily feel it. But then you realize that your attitudes about things have changed. And you realize that a little bit of stress management actually improves your whole disposition, not only for a few minutes, but for days, maybe. Especially if you kind of get up and start out your day that way, it kind of leaves this lasting vibration throughout the whole day. It's kind of getting up, checking in with yourself, getting your breath kind of under control, giving into a pattern of maybe some deeper breathing can really set off your day the right way. It's the integration of mind and body and spirit, I suppose, also. Yeah. And that's the one thing I took away. I'm interested in your comments about this is that you've got to be integrated. You've got to be thinking of your body and thinking of your mind. You've got to be mindful. That's the word they're really used. But it's also sort of connecting up yourself. And when you're breathing, when you're breathing, you're thinking of your body. You're thinking of breathing. Yeah. And that goes a long way because then you become conscious that you're alive. Whoa! What a notion! They all work synergistically. No one part works independently. Okay. So we're almost out of time. So I want to go down the row here and ask you guys to make a statement to the great public out there on this question. If Ornish worked so well for me and my cohort, why couldn't it work for the whole population? Not necessarily the kids because they're too young to appreciate all these things. But the population of Hawaii, wouldn't it be good to have an Ornish program run pretty much the same way for everyone? There's the camera. Camera one. Camera one. Can I see that one? Wait, it's good. That one. That one. That one. That one right there. Okay. I edit work for anyone and everyone. The take home message is eat well and move right and avoid all the bad habits. Yeah. You heard that from Jason Jones. Write it down. You'll be on the final exam. Okay, Brandy, how about you? What would you leave with them? I would say, yes, it is very great for all people. It's a good lifestyle change. It teaches you important tools so they have a longer, healthier life. You like people, don't you? That's why you're there. Sarah, what would you say? I would say a big take home from this program is that there's kind of a love portion included in the program. It's addressing the whole person, not just your outsides, but your insides as well. So I think that sets it apart and distinguishes it from other health programs is the including of love. I said kindness, but you're right. It goes beyond kindness. It goes to love. Loving kindness. Loving kindness. And it was wonderful. It was wonderful the time I spent with you guys. I couldn't wait to get back. And I was not the only one who felt that way. You've given me a great gift. Thank you. Thank you all for that. And I hope we can do this again. I'll see you at the rendezvous. All right.