 Broadcasting live from Honolulu, Hawaii. Welcome to Think Tech Hawaii's newest show, Top of the Line. I'm your host, Ben Lau. Aloha, and thank you for tuning in. Our guest today is someone very special, very dear to me, my friend, Mark Kazowitz. Mark is someone who needs little introduction in most circles of American business and society, known throughout corporate America, from Wall Street to Greenwich, Connecticut, from Times Square to Hollywood to Silicon Valley to Washington, DC, from coast to coast in all parts in between, from the Southern District of New York and the courts of the Second Circuit to those of the Eleventh Circuit all across the country, from the chambers of Congress to the Oval Office of the White House, in corporate boardrooms, conference rooms, jury deliberation rooms, trading floors, home studios, courthouses throughout the US, throughout the world. Mark and his namesake firm, Kazowitz Benson Torres, have a reputation for smarts, strategic thinking, aggressiveness, effectiveness, trailblazing. They have a reputation for winning. Our guest has a reputation that precedes him. And lest you viewers think any of this is hyperbole, Mark is a public figure. You can verify everything of what I'm sharing against the public record. Hello, Mark, thank you for being my guest on my inaugural episode. Hi, Ben, thanks for having me, I really appreciate it. You've been approached for interviews countless times, Mark, and you've typically declined. So much appreciation for granting me the special opportunity to sit and talk with you. It's an honor and a real privilege. Let me begin by repeating the thanks that you and your firm recently received from the governor of my state, our state of Hawaii, Governor Ige, on behalf of the people this past summer. Thank you for recovering for the state over $30 million in a case involving the Hawaii Department of Transportation. It's a huge amount for a state of our size of 1.4 million. An award like that is like winning close to 900 million for California, or close to 650 million for Texas. Governor Ige's letter to your firm reads Mahalo. So I know you know that word. And I reiterate that message of appreciation. In addition to all of your accomplishments and accolades, and appreciation of your works thus far, you are the embodiment of the American success story. From working in the backyard of your father's scrap metal junkyard with your twin brother, sorting scrap metal in the freezing New Haven, Connecticut cold until your face and fingers went numb and blue, to now flying in your own private jet with your personal pilot up in the great big blue, to Air Force One and to the White House, you have risen literally from dad's scrap metal junkyard to the stratosphere. Let me ask you, what's your view from up there? What do you see? Well, thanks Ben. I appreciate that. And I appreciate your showing the picture of my dad, which we affectionately in the family refer to as my dad's Marlon Brando on the waterfront picture. Look, my dad was a very, very firm believer in the value of hard work. And not only hard work, but in the value of good character, honesty and abiding interest in taking care of family and friends. And I think that if I think about the most important things that I learned from him or inherited from him, it really is the deep abiding love for being kind to people, being good to people. I always believed that the real essence of life was treating people in the way that you would want them to treat you and the way you'd want them to treat your family. And that's been kind of the message for me growing up and the message for me getting older, which I am now. So many people, when I read things about me or I read things about our firm, people say we're aggressive, we're smart lawyers, we're all about winning and those things are true. We are, we're completely devoted to making sure that our clients' interests are protected. That's why they come to us. But underlying all of that, I think is what we believe about the value in being good and kind to people in having them trust us and trust that we're gonna do the right thing for them. And I think that, I mean, my dad wasn't a lawyer. He didn't go to college. He barely finished high school because he was working, but if there's anything that I've learned from him that I inherited from him, it's that kind of belief in the value and the importance of kindness to people. Mark, you are not just the embodiment of success. You are the embodiment of your father's spirit and what made him so special in your eyes and as you describe him so we can see him through your eyes. I know you, I've been part of that extended family and you're part of your firm. I've been around you, I've seen you with those countless acts of kindness that you're not even aware that anyone else is looking or that those of us that we share about your kindness to us, you give to people that there's no reasonable expectation and even if there were, there's no way they can repay you besides maybe being just that more grateful and serving you a drink faster or opening the door for you with a big smile or whatever it may be, that's who you are. And I would say that most of the people I know who've interacted with you in New York, I've been around with you, they see it the same way. You remember people's names, you just make this impressive statement with who you are. I wanna share the story about how you impressed my parents and made them fans forever. You were the head of my summer program at the law firm that I started at before you went and started your firm with Dan and Hector and I brought them to the office one night after a Broadway play, our office was in Times Square as yours is currently, but across the avenue and we were walking around the office and I was hoping not to run into anybody or embarrass anybody, it was probably 11 or 12 o'clock at night. I hear some rustling as we go by your office and you're there, you're on the sofa with your arms crossed you've got your eyes up into the ceiling, you're clearly contemplating something, imagining some important case or something. You jump up, you write yourself up, you string your tie, you button your jacket, you say, Dr. and Mrs. Lau, it's so nice to meet you. How do you do? I don't know how you remembered my father was a doctor, I think it was the first time you met them. They had ever since been a fan. That's, you just win people that way. That was how many years ago. I don't wanna get my age away, but that's who you are. We could talk about your kindness all day. Let's talk about where does your drive and ambition come from? You know, your firm, you seem to be everywhere, you know, in recent news, suing Apple and patent litigation, winning close to $700 million for MBIA, resolving disputes over Woodstock 50 Festival against the Japanese advertising BMF Densu, representing Scarlett Johansson and Hollywood in her lawsuit against Disney, winning Hawaii those tens of millions of dollars. What else is going on that we should know about? Well, look, I think that, and thanks for that, Ben. Look, I think that we have lived by, in our firm, we've lived by an abiding notion, you know, for all these years and we've been in business ourselves for, I guess, 27 or 28 years now. And this is gonna sound a bit over the top and egotistical, and I apologize for that. And I apologize for the immodesty of it. But the reality is that there's no firm in the country that takes care of their clients more effectively or gets better results for their clients and does it in a creative way, in an aggressive way than we do. And that is such a, you know, source of pride for me. When people come to us, they have serious problems. When companies come to us, they have very, very important issues. Either they're defending against the government or they're defending against multi-billion dollar claims or they've been damaged by some event or some company to the tune of billions of dollars in claims, and that's why they come to us. So the responsibility that we have to take care of them is enormous and it's a responsibility that I feel deeply and all of the lawyers in our firm feel. And we're, you know, we're really blessed that we've been able over the course of, look, I've been practicing law for 45 years. We've had the firm for close to 30 and we're really blessed that we've been able to solve these problems for these clients. I mean, you know, dating back to the 90s, when we came up for the idea of settling tobacco litigation, we were representing Liggette, which was the smallest of the big five tobacco companies. And at that time, tobacco companies had never settled any cases against them, never paid a nickel to any smoker or any claimant. And what we saw at that time were cases brought by state attorney's general that sought to hold the tobacco industry liable for the amounts of money that had been spent in state owned and operated hospitals treating smoking related disease. And although all the rest of the companies claim that smoking, and this is 1995, 1996, all the rest of the companies claim that smoking didn't cause these diseases. Our client Liggette was willing to own up to the fact that, and the reality that smoking really did have negative effects on people and was addictive. I think you might be responsible for this, for these labels, you were formed the industry, you were formed the tobacco industry. Well, we did. And at the same time, we protected our client reliability and we also came up with a strategy that for our client ended up making it financially solvent. Because when we settled these cases inexpensively for Liggette at the beginning because no tobacco company had ever settled anything, ultimately when the cases became a threat against the rest of the industry, and the rest of the industry paid $250 billion over 25 years to settle the attorney general cases the way that tobacco companies raised money was to raise the price of cigarettes. So all the rest of the companies raised the price of cigarettes to pay these settlements over to the attorneys general and Liggette, which we settled for very little because we were the first ones in, were able to raise the price of cigarettes and create a economically, financially viable company that's done extraordinarily well and put warnings on their packages that smoking was addictive, which the rest of the industry absolutely refused to do. Like I said, responsible for the labeling, I think. I don't know if people listen, but Mark, let me, you say we, you say we a lot. It's rarely me, you use the word we and you've got a core team of lawyers over there, you and Dan Benson and Hector Torres, you formed a group and a platform that allows so much talent to stand up and shine and develop fantastic reputations and status of their own. How do you do it? How do you spot and retain such talent? How do you hold a group like that together? How do you keep talent like my buddy, Jim Stricker, another dear friend? Hi maintenance guy. How do you keep these guys in line? How do you keep them as part of your team? Well, look, we started with, it's a great question. And we started with 18 lawyers back in 1993. And I think we have close to 300 today. And for us, again, the message is pretty simple. We're loyal to our people. We try to give the same respect to everyone who works in our firm, whether it's a lawyer, a partner and associate, a non-lawyer, a non-legal staffer, a secretary, administrative assistant, someone who works in our copying room. I mean, to us, the value that everybody contributes to what we are accomplishing is immeasurable. You can't define separately what each single person contributes to our venture, to our mission. And the mission that we have is to protect our client's interests and to do it, you know, creatively, aggressively and ethically. And so I think the reason that people stay with us and we've had, I mean, the folks who started with us are still here. I mean, 30 years later. And the reason that they're still here is because they've realized that what we provide is a home, a home for them, a home for their hopes, aspirations, a place for them to raise their own families and the like, and a place where ultimately they understand that they can depend on us. And I, you know, Ben, you're the first person to say this to me in, you know, I don't do many interviews, you're right. But in any of the ones that I've done, you're the first person to say to me that I always say we not, not, not, not I. And the reason that I say we not I is because it's us, not me. And for that, I'm grateful. I mean, I really am. I mean, I'm a blessed person to have around me the kinds of people who we have. They're great lawyers and they're great people. Let me, if I could Mark, take the moment. There's another special us in that equation and a shout out to Lori, another former colleague. Hello, Lori. Mark, I wanna use the precious time we have with you. You represent a host of high profile clients and amazing matters that are relevant to affairs in our country and in the world. Does your firm also handle pro bono cases helping out the little guy? What do you do in that area? Yeah, we do a lot of pro bono work. Some of the people who do the pro bono work sometimes think that I don't view as highly the work that they're doing because it doesn't bring dollars in the door. But the reality is that I view everything that we do as being of equal value. And the folks who organize David Abrams, our partner who organizes our pro bono practice. I mean, they've done an unbelievable job. They went awards every year for the kind of work that they've done for people who don't have resources, who really, really need help whether they're immigration matters, whether they're matters involving women and spouses who have faced abuse in their homes, whether they're matters for children who have had to deal with abusive families and need protection, whether they're immigration matters for folks who are coming to our country and have had to deal with hostile environments and the like and are seeking naturalization here, whether they're landlord tenant matters, simple straightforward matters where the tenants just can't afford to pay and they've been, they've been prejudiced by hostile residential environments and the like. We have a very, very robust program. But what I wanna stress about that is that we have so many people who come to us not necessarily as part of the theater programs for these pro bono matters, but come to us because they have a problem and they can't solve it without having the influence and power, frankly, of a firm like ours. And they don't have the resources to pay. There's so many of those that we agree to do on our dime because we think that the people are, you know, a great character and value and they have real claims. So we do a lot of this work. Allow me to please say it because I hear you're saying it, but you're more self-humbling about it. You know, David and whoever else are on your team of pro bono lawyers doing all this good work, to the extent they may say that you don't seem to appreciate it as much because it doesn't bring in money, I think the response would be, and I'll say it, they may not listen, is that I think you very much highly value that because exactly it doesn't bring in money. It sends money out the door and your offices are swanky, high-priced real estate. They have a place in there. They have all the resources you form offers. I think the fact that you underwrite all of that says how important it is to you, even if your interests are in trying to win a case for an important client whose bill will keep the lights on and afford this work. Let me move on, Mark, if we could. You possess unparalleled insider status and know the insides of so many businesses and the exclusive quarters of power, privilege, and influence. You are literally the cover boy of the American lawyer. As the American lawyer, we have a little bit of time remaining. Could you address the younger viewers, not just aspiring lawyers, but what possible career paths should they chart for their journey to follow your example, to ascend to the top of the line? I gotta plug my title in my show. Great question, Ben. And I guess kind of, I'm not an expert in this, figuring out career paths for people in this day and age. But what I can say is this. If you look at what's happening in our world, if you look at the kinds of issues that are of increasing criticality and importance in our world, then what you see are a bunch of different things that really require talent and attention. So what are they, okay? One, law. I mean, law continues to be, in fact, not just continues to be, but our world is increasingly entangled with legal issues that the resolution of which require legal solutions. So for people who are, for young people who are looking at a career path and trying to decide what they wanna do, if they can express themselves clearly and forcefully and clearly in writing and have a passion going into law is a great profession because our world, virtually every aspect of it is saturated with legal questions that require legal solutions. In thinking and going beyond that, beyond lawyers, I mean, when I look at the kinds of threats to stability in our country, for example, I mean, when you look at the role that computers play in our life and the role that the internet and that the organization of information plays in our life, it is overwhelming. It is everywhere just as the internet is an enormous strength and positive for our society in our country and our culture. It's also a vulnerability because the opportunity for people who wanna hurt us or create our anarchy or create terror for our country is enormous. So I view cybersecurity as being a huge field that is going to take on even increasing importance over the coming years. And if I'm a young person and I'm trying to figure out where can I make my mark? I mean, one place where I can make an indelible contribution would be in the area of cybersecurity. Then you have a lot of other stuff, right? You have people who talk about Bitcoin and other kinds of currencies and the like. And I don't know, I'm too old and old fashioned to understand whether what the ultimate future and value of that is gonna be. So I'm not really qualified to talk about that. We have young partners in our firm who are doing big Bitcoin cases now and they're real issues that present themselves. But whether that's a place where people ought to be looking for the future, I leave that to people who are much smarter than I am. That's gonna be hard to find, but Mark, we have very few minutes remaining. So I'm gonna ask you two questions. And the first question could lead to a very long answer. So I have to ask you to keep it brief and then we'll get to the second question. The first question. You helped make one of your clients, president of the United States. Is that a job you would recommend for our young viewers to aspire to some day? Can you help them? You mean the job of being president or helping someone become president or both? Both, I'll double the 30 seconds and let you answer both. I am a, I'm enormously devoted and grateful to this country. My parents were both born here. All my grandparents were not born here. And for my family and for countless families, the United States of America has been a godsend, a godsend of freedom of liberty, of opportunity, a place where people have been able to build their lives, their families, their professions, their characters. And it is a place to which I am immensely grateful, always will be. There's nothing that will change my view about the United States of America. Like any aggregation of people, it has its vulnerabilities and its issues. But, gratefully, it's been a place that has worked hard to solve its problems over the years for which I'm very grateful. So I guess by answer, with that context, my answer is this, anyone who is president of the United States who ever asks Mark Kazowitz to help, Mark Kazowitz's answer is yes, whether it's a Republican, a Democrat, a first-time politician, a long-time politician, I believe that we owe a debt of gratitude and service to our country. And if President Biden were to ask me for help right now, my answer would be yes, the same way it was when President Trump did. So that's how I see it. I love how you honor President Biden and embedded in your answer is an assumption that he would not misuse your talents to go against a former client, which would be absolutely impossible. But I'm just implicit in your answer. And that's the kind of respect I think you hold for whoever holds that office. And the same goes for many of us. Thank you for that answer. Let me ask you this last question. I wanna go to this picture of you and your father, who was in the scrap metal business. You're his legacy. And I can't imagine anyone could be prouder looking down upon you and what you've done with what he's given you, your name and all the rest. You've turned around and done the same with your daughter, Samantha, who looks like she's riding her horses over some pretty amazing challenges. I wanna ask you about legacy. What would you like your legacy to be? You and Lori, when you take a little bit of time, you sit back and you look at it all. I got a picture of that too. Have you thought about that? I know you're young, you're still young. You got many years to go, many billable hours to go. You're fitter than I am, you'd kick my butt in a heartbeat. But, and I maybe don't want to prematurely launch this on you, but you think about legacy? Look, I think that, I think it's really simple. I think that the legacy, it doesn't matter what the word is, whether it's a legacy or what the concept is, whether it's legacy or how people think of you or who you are or what you are, it really goes back to, I think, what I said at the beginning, which I deeply believe and I want for all of the people who I associate myself with and the people who are my family, I want to be, I guess if I had to say it, I want to be thought of as someone who thought of other people and put them first and tried to help them in the same way that they would, I'd want them to help me. You know, when I was growing up in New Haven and I was thinking about when I was a little kid and I was thinking about like what I'd like to do with my life, I always thought about wanting to be a lawyer. And the reason I wanted to be a lawyer was because my picture, my vision was that the lawyer was the wise man in the community, the wise person in the community, the person that other people came to when they needed advice, when they needed help, when they needed support, that was my vision. And I guess that if you talk about a legacy or whatever, yeah, I'd like to be thought of that way, that I was someone who tried to help, you know. You already have that. I think we need to shoot higher. You've got that from everyone. So let's have you think about more, if you can do even more. Look, we have to wrap up. I can only wish future young lawyers and summer associates the good fortune of knowing the working alongside, being mentored by someone like you, associated with someone so special, supportive, decent and kind, so amazingly generous as you. You've been such an important part of my career from the very beginning and a part of my life. You and Dan and Hector created a firm that is home to some very, very special people and some very dear friends of mine. Let me let you have the last word before I say a few closing things. Well, look, first of all, Ben, I'm flattered to have been included in this interview. You really have flattered me and made me feel very welcome here and I'm appreciative. And I think that, I guess, not to elevate this to any kind of higher or political discussion, our world and our country face enormous challenges these days. And the challenges, to lots of people seem insurmountable, the conflicts and the divisiveness among people seem irreconcilable. I guess the way I think about it is they are reconcilable, they are surmountable and the way that they're surmountable is through exactly what we're doing here tonight, talking, exchanging views, giving heartfelt impressions and beliefs about the things that are important to us. And if the folks in our country on both sides, on all sides, could feel free enough to do that, we'd be solving so many of these issues so much more easily. And I guess that's my bottom line on all this. The title of the show is Mark Kazuch, Champion of Clients, but I think it should be Mark Kazuch, Champion of the People, Champion of Hope, Champion of Integrity, Champion of the Possibility, the Promise of what the American story is all about. We know you know this word from Governor Igay's letter of gratitude, Mark. Mahalo, from my home to your second home at 1633 Broadway, where you sit now with your private bathroom off in the distance and your private conference room on the other side of that. For me and my family, to you and yours, Mahalo.