 whoo-hoo Yay theories of everything with Kurt Jai mongol Welcome. I mean, thank you So used to being the host How are you doing man? So good So just come from meditating Life is a meditation my brother Did you just explicitly meditate like close your eyes and stay still for a couple minutes or no? that is What that usually is what leads up to Meditation being what you are so usually you go and practice Meditation in order for you to end up having like a contemplative fitness AI that's perpetually running in a Sense so you no longer need to go and separately meditate. It just becomes what you are perpetually and so I feel like I've just recently sort of made that transition as well where you the amount of sovereignty that you end up having the supreme authority over what used to be like this big web of conditioning and triggers and sensory perception You gain so much sovereignty because you're able to watch the arising and passing a phenomena and It's just regaining that awareness and it's so beautiful. So Yeah Yeah, I agree with these spiritual teachers who Have been meditating for years and continue to do so you think that they should be moved past that Well, one of the ways that Buddha talked about this is as an undistracted non meditation So undistracted So you're not fixating and It's a non meditation Because you're not meditating. It's just an undistracted Perpetual thought-free wakefulness. Does that make sense? I understand. Okay. Yeah. Yeah so I feel like when When you're not going straight to the end goal of thought-free wakefulness Then you're almost Perpetuating yourself to need to sit on the cushion more and more. So work your way into a place Where you can experience a Contemplative fitness AI that's basically running in the background where just nothing can trigger you nothing Can in but we're always working on basically deconditioning ourselves. That's what the the art is in many ways Forgive my petty fogging nature, but what do you mean by contemplative fitness AI? What's meant by the word fitness in there? He's already taken the interview over I love you Well, just for the audience Yes, I don't know how many people are watching but for the people who are watching I'm much more comfortable as an interviewer than an Interviewee I feel like I my predominant position on most topics is just I don't know I'm Decelebrate in most places and that includes math and physics, which is my background So I don't know I imagine that much of what you'll get is Extreme uncertainty and dubiousness for myself You know what's fascinating and we can put a little flag in this in the fitness Incontemplative fitness AI and potentially circled back to that because cool because I feel like where Kurt and I have so much overlap because this will probably end up being more of a conversation is that 2017 I had this list of all of these Insanely thought-provoking questions about the nature of reality and then the number one thing that came up was how do I go and ask the Smartest people that I have access to all of these thought-provoking questions about what the nature of reality is and in a sense Would you say that that's what you're doing? What I'm trying to do is understand the landscape of theories of everything Which involves speaking to some experts in some sense the Idea behind the theory of everything is synonymous with what is the nature of reality so in that respect? Yes Although although I'm not particularly focused on speaking to people like these Kanya shanties I'm mainly interested in the theories and They're an avenue to not only an income source of mine So there's obviously a monetary element to it though in the beginning. There's nothing and even still it's not like it's Paying all the bills, but there's obviously that there's obviously some making a name for myself, but there's also there's I Don't there's so many questions I have and I wanted to title the YouTube channel office hours because I come from an academic background and In academia what you have our office hours a professor sucks Let's say Wednesdays from 4 to 8 and you can go talk to them about about your homework about whatever questions come to mind So for me, I treat it more like office hours. I office hours that I film and that's the Predominant quality so there's both this theories of everything that end up being a Landscape of how self-awareness Perceives the nature of its reality and then creating some sort of a a map about what is In that Landscape across the planet of what people think the point of all of this is and then another part of it is It's like office hours regarding getting these brilliant people on and then having them answer these questions that are not only about adding them to this theories of everything landscape map, but also about poking and prodding and Getting new insights one of the most important things that I've noticed from the guests that come on the show is and you've actually Filmed this and included them in your intro several times is when your guests have said, you know, Kurt this has been one of my best interviews and that's because of your poking and Prodding and enabling it's like tennis where you're enabling them to further increase their insights around their own ideas Yeah Yes well, that's a huge compliment like I I I Do my best to prepare I prepare like mad like mad like you wouldn't believe like it Drains me how much I prepare so When they say that it shows which I'm always insecure about if any of it shows not that I'm trying to have it show But it would be great if even a modicum of it showed It's great that some of that's exuded and that they acknowledge it Your essence reminds me a little bit of Jordan Peterson Yeah, I get that I get I I used to get that more one of the reasons Seems to be that I'm I'm extremely careful with what I say I'm trying to make sure that what I'm saying is my own word and that it's not That it's not unfairly adopted from someone else without my conscious effort Trying to make it my own Another reason is obvious is that I've watched plenty of him and I don't know how to stop someone that I've seen from influencing my life on Micro level for example There's also Tony Robbins in me because I used to watch plenty of Tony Robbins when I did stand up it was Like Seinfeld and Colin Quinn because those are my favorite ones and it's not like I'm trying to copy them It's just that there's no way for me to Export them completely and This might be Quite specific to today's interaction I've noticed it a little bit across your other interviews But I've also noticed different emanations of of what your unique expression is But there seems to be and correct me if I'm wrong or just expand on this for us, but have you felt Sort of your own sense of identity burst outside of your skin Yeah Yeah, and walk us through that. Yeah It usually happens around the one-hour mark in an interview It's mainly when I get comfortable with myself. So right now. I'm somewhat habituated in this because I haven't slept for Well, I have slept but I have slept poorly for the past five days or so And usually once I'm in the flow That's when it comes out not that I'm not in the flow man. Like I respect and love you It just takes a while And I just came off from a previous podcast So that one somewhat exhausted me and I have another one right after this and then I got it like sleep in a in a river of Opium none of this is a joke, but like just like completely bade myself in in In silk and satin and just go to sleep for like 12 hours Yeah, that was one of the things that we were talking about before we went on was just respectfully Rejuvenating yourself for being able to actually actualize this channel at its fullest potential because Sometimes what we think is doing all of the sessions and this was my case also especially in 2018 and 2019 was doing Even at these conferences like ten shows in a day like ten one to two hour shows in a day And that was fucking crazy and that and that type of energy is cool and it has its place but But there's also the energy for the rejuvenation But just to play on this question a little bit more, you know, you've had people like Rupert Spira on the show and you've had these more Mystically literate via direct experience when people like Rupert tell you that you are God you've just forgotten that you are God Does that resonate with you? It's in it doesn't some sense and it does doesn't in another so I think if I had had that realization it would Rock me to my core In some sense I can intellectually understand it But that's the issue. That's another reason why okay, let's let's play on this a little bit. So You have Awareness is that right? Mm-hmm. Okay, so would you say that the The mind is kind of like magic I don't know what you mean by that Like are you blown away by the fact that you have the power to know? Yes But just stay with that feeling a little bit more, right? Okay Okay Where's this going? We'll see so This power to know a quality that's Enabling your Perception right now Would would would you say that it's possible that we're habitually overlooking the Profundity of consciousness, you know, there's something Vic Einstein said and I like I know I quote him Perhaps a bit too much, but he had something called clarificatory remarks which is which are those aspects of reality that are most important but hidden because of Vic Einstein gets taken as the As the paragon of a rational atheist But actually he was profoundly deeply religious and many people don't realize that The reason why he didn't speak much about religion. It was because he had a quote which said there Of what one cannot speak of precisely one must be silent And he had extreme religious veneration as he got older to the point where I think his close friend Norman Malcolm said that The religiosity that characterized Vic Einstein was greater than that of people who consider themselves to be religious beautiful, so you resonate with the Notion that we might be perpetually habitually overlooking What is so profound which is the fact that we have the quality of The power to know consciousness Well, I don't know if that's what's the most profound. I know it's somewhat profound. I don't know if it's the most There's a great idea that the kingdom of God lays before men but men do not see it yes Yes See you remind me and I mentioned this to you, but you remind me so much of Me especially like Right before like six months ago where like this realization Rupert was one of the most Important people in in catalyzing this realization basically what I see you doing which is what I was doing which is The eyeballs are faced outward and they're they're scraping the Landscape of the nature of reality Looking for who are the people that know the most physics and that know the most math and that know the most about these different fields neuroscience Philosophy how can I take in how can I sponge in what the peaks of these landscapes? No, and you know taken all this information and refract it uniquely into Theory of everything. Well, you may not be doing that that last part necessarily But it does feel like you are to an extent but then what the key switch is is when rather than the eyeballs Being protruded outward trying to find the nature of reality the eyeball turns on itself And it was blood-borne Wait, what what is this? Have you played blood-borne? It's a today. Hey to talking me a zaki game Mmm Dark Souls have you heard of Dark Souls? Oh Dark Souls. Yes. Yes, they're the game called blood-borne and in it the characters who Had true insight where in they would turn their eyes inside out And put many eyes pointed toward the end Kurt you have the answer It's it's right under your nose. You're pointing to it in different ways from Wicked Stein to this Dark Souls you're pointing at it in so many different ways truly you are you know that this is it Yeah, well, what's the answer? You are it You are it Okay, I don't understand what that means Ellen Like you are the nature of reality Like you you are the highest Okay, now, how does no, what does that mean because I imagine if one is saying you referring to me Then one can say that you referring to anyone and thus they're thus It's all the highest which also means it's all the lowest which means it's all the same Which is the same as non dualism, which to me. I don't see how I Have quite a few problems with non dualism though. I skirt with it one of them is I don't see it as anything I don't see it. I don't see how it's not veiled nihilism Let's play with direct experience a little bit more. So you have your conscious and that would you say that consciousness is Form less would you say that the quality of the power to know you know how water is wet and Like wet wetness is like a quality Wetness is like a formless quality Okay Okay, and then like kind of like sweetness right sweetness is like the property. You can one can say is property or no Let's play with quality for now a Quality and so now you have the power to know Which is also like a formless quality So so rather than the fixation externally on form name and shape the eyeball has turned inward On on itself and is now recognizing that this consciousness awareness the power to know is Something so profound and so indescribable so formless That it's been overlooking and now what you see is Kurt might it be possible That if you look at consciousness without any attributes So what does it look like to be consciousness without the costume of Kurt or? consciousness without the costume of Rupert or without the costume I understand. Oh that does make sense. Yes Okay, so now now you see that that consciousness without its costumes Mm-hmm. So when you look at it most upstream as just the formless power to know That is what people are pointing at for the last millennia When they talk about the kingdom of God is within you that this is the highest the absolute appearing for an Exploration of infinite possibility. I understand Okay, and so what what holds you back? Is it like logic and reasoning or what is the thing that kind of like holds you back from? Recognizing that this is the highest coming to explore a possibility of infinity. Well, like I said It if it's the highest is also the lowest and so does one want to say that This is the lowest and if one is not going to say it's the lowest and why is Why is it high and not low? No, it's beautiful. So we see that today when we look at people not having their basic needs being met and where we have War where we have war and where we have famine and where we have all of the worst catastrophic issues they're happening here on the same planet that the Absolute most ecstatic God realization is happening. So it's all happening here. This is all it. Yeah, so so we're not necessarily even trying to create a Adjust, you're cutting off and I want to make sure I'm hearing every single word. Do you mind repeating it? Yeah, of course so we see the this manifestation of play like what we're talking about is Both hold on hold on we see a manifestation of play. Okay. Yes. Yes, and then that There is it's both exploring the Architipple hell at the same time as there's the exploration of the archetypal heaven Hold on Alan. Please. I want to make sure can people can you double check if the chat can hear you? Or if it's just me that's cutting that's hearing you cut in and out People are watching You're out and completely and clearly without break. We love you Brando. Thanks for your love Okay, so it's just myself All right. Well, just sorry continue Okay, well, let's see if Can you hear me now? That's my headphones. I apologize man. Let me know worries. No worries. We're going through all of the lovely We love you guys. We love. Thank you for your love It also may be that I have OBS running in the background. Sometimes that messes it up. Okay. Do you mind speaking speaking? Hello? Yes, we are testing Testing for Kurt. Yeah, you guys are you guys are so kind. Look at all these lovely comments Thank you. Thank you everyone. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. Let's get back to this. So you're saying Okay, cool. Do you see all these lovely comments? Yeah, man, they're only positive. It's just plaudits and I appreciate it Well, because people love your channel and and they love what we've been doing on ours as well and so it's a it's a beautiful colliding and Cool. So you did you hear that last sentence pretty clearly? No Oh, you still didn't no. No repeat it. Please Oh, I mean the last the very recent one that I just yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. All this is clear. Yeah, okay. Great great okay, so that If we if we play from the perspective of an an infinite amount of possibility And we we are that which explores that Infinite possibility. Okay. Okay. And so then we use these realities and consciousness as the mechanism to explore infinite potential Are you still following And that these realities have the archetype that you just described which is the absolute hellishness as well as the absolute heaven simultaneously so you have tanks and murder and hanging people and famine at the same time that you have ecstasy and yachts and jetpacks and Thanksgiving dinners What privileges one over the other? What privileges one over the other meaning Like why would why would you get to do one of those and somebody else does another one? Like why would one be pursued and the other not so why should one not go around raping and pillaging and murdering and tormenting and causing anguish on a local or global level? Yeah, it's a great question. So You intrinsically you know the answer to that question Like every one of us intrinsically knows the answer to that question because if you go back to what we've started with which was that we share The power to know we share consciousness. We share that same if you get there What happens is and you can also see that externally you're like, yeah all the species share the same planet So you can also see it externally at the same time that you recognize that you actually create harm To yourself to your own home when you rape and pillage and do any of those horrible negative activities But that's part of the exploration. It's part of the play But so the more that you get the You know the most metaphysical level like you just had chris langen on the show We were talking about that a little bit before we started but When you take it from the most metaphysical level which is out of an infinite amount of possibility because when you truly grok infinity you begin recognizing that An infinite amount of possibility you can never come to the end of exploring and this is basically what kurt girdle and and douglas hoffstetter and donald hoffman are talking about as well is that you can't actually Come to the Truth that you are a playstation 5 playing infinite games But you can't come to that truth from within grand theft auto So you're trying to find the truth that you're in playstation 5 playing infinite games, but you're trying to find it from within gta Okay, so when people bring up kurt girdle, I I want to know what's the relationship between a first order language and Our physical reality or this reality Because what kurt girdle was saying was extremely specific. It was with any axiomatic system strong enough to produce some Qualities like arithmetic and so on. So what's the relationship between that? What's to say that reality has anything to do with that? It also is an extremely computational view of reality and I don't think reality is necessarily computational That's all that's penrose's entire argument. Is that Okay, let's substitute the word computational with Comprehensive are you comprehending reality right now? If what you mean is do I comprehend some aspects of reality like am I understanding? Well, I would say I think I understand Some things though is the Is the fundamental nature of consciousness to comprehend? No Why You think it is I would say the fundamental Quality of consciousness is awareness but but that also is just a tautology because it seems like you're substituting one word for It's in a so then would the fundamental nature of awareness be to comprehend What are you okay? You have to explain to me what you mean by comprehend? You see this is where I'm saying there's like a bit of that Like When you sort of like relax I know In the least I know I know I love you It's I sense this though. I sense it in your essence. Like there's like this Like give me the you know, there's this definition of Comprehend, but you know, I know you know Intrinsically like what just like you said earlier. Well, why wouldn't somebody just go and create violence and havoc? And you know the answer Okay, I'll object to that Okay, because there are obviously people who are driven by that who think that that is the highest good and the example that I give Frequently is 12 or 6 with ganga scone or as he said where he said that the highest good is to Put my enemy's heads on a stick and rape their women and that was the good to him So it's not exactly obvious and see this is what I see the new age community being driven by this Polyonic view of what humans are but Plenty of people are motivated by By pointing down They have a god and it's down and I don't I don't see the recognition of that in In these In some of these non-dualist circles So how old is how old is ganga scone again a thousand years old? almost 1200 Approximately is when he had his reign in Asia. Okay, so a thousand years ago Where was our level of self-awareness compared to now? That's another way to view that question Because if you look at the level of self-awareness a thousand years ago that Was more of the essence where you could sort of say that I want to put my enemies heads on sticks And I want to rape the women and today in modernity with 8 billion people and the internet and computers and we see the planet as one organism then we see the These conscious agents a.k.a humans as this shared Computational or comprehensive Unit that then is what is Exploring So in a sense, you can't get away with that anymore self-awareness has increased to the point where You can no longer get away with Having this drastic level of malevolence and and violence Okay, well, what you're saying man. It's so embedded in assumptions upon assumptions that So here's one it's a highly contested issue whether or not we've progressed in any moral respect from 1000 or 2000 years ago and many in some people some people would say we've lost our way especially since For vake you would say since the invention of vowels which sounds like has absolutely nothing to do with this But that was around the year 1200 as well or at least the invention of literacy, which was around Sorry written word, which is Curtin thousand I believe minus Kurt Kurt if if you can get to the understanding that this is the same intelligence talking to itself Can can you get to that understanding The same intelligence look you mentioned that you don't particularly like my persnickety adherence to But the reason is that you mentioned girdle. Well, why do you mention girdle? See this is what I see the And I don't mean this is any demeaning quality to the spiritual or new age community. I just have no other word for For that community then like that and I have the almost utmost respect Otherwise I wouldn't have interviewed people like bernardo castrop and spira and so on and so on and in fact I tend to primarily interview those people because they think contrary to me my I see people I see them as being as being motivated and not knowing that they're motivated So for example, they'll mention girdle or they'll mention that the universe looks at a certain scale to look To have the same connections as new as neuronal connections Okay, well, how did girdle get how does that get to? Isn't it just trying to share with you what is right under your nose? Isn't that just trying to share with you what's right under its nose when I'm asking for specificity It's the same process that girdle did in order to show that Set theory as we had it Well, it's actually even more profound than set theory But whatever that a formal system that has certain qualities Has truths when within it that one can't prove with it. Okay, whatever whatever that was from a deep investigation into the details And the reason why I I pin you down or I'm I'm carping. It's not because I I'm trying to prove you wrong in any way shape or form It's because I'm trying to understand and I know as someone who's studied Some topics like mathematics and physics and and and philosophy extremely deeply that Much of what we think makes sense on the surface upon closer investigation falls apart It's like you're fighting a ghost and you don't realize it until you investigate it at its extremes until you Until you want to know well, what do you precisely mean by so-and-so and so-and-so? And and thus I'm not being Unfairly cap just I'm trying to get to the essence I I also know that what can seem like it makes sense on the surface is Is misleading when tackled from a different angle? So arguments are Anthememic meaning that they have embedded in them unstated assumptions and that they take an inordinate amount of time to decompress or to uncompress sorry and Thus if you ask me well does your awareness is your awareness like you asked me a simple question is awareness aware of awareness Okay, it seems like it is yes. Okay cur. Why don't you just say it is because I don't know if it is I see it. I see it seeming like it is in this moment But give me enough time and there an account May emerge or counterfeeling I'm not going to just sit here and accept what I don't what I don't feel Is irrefutable? I'm going to attack it Or at least I don't have to attack it. It just comes up and I'm presenting the I'm presenting what appears in my mind. So I'm please don't think of me as being I don't want you to think I'm being unfair to you. I respect and I love you But it's what's going through my mind. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, it's so beautiful. It's a dialectic it's really truly just a dialectic and When I when I feel into where you're coming from right now I very much sense a lot of a lot of scientific a lot of a lot of Logic and a lot of proof like I want proof proof proof and but the proof the most In a sense truest proof is your direct experience above all else as in when you Become aware that this is one intelligence talking to itself So it becomes more transpersonal you've heard that word right thrown around before on the shows and In conversation does this make does this make sense? Like it becomes more transpersonal like the whole game of the universe becomes more transpersonal Like the the curt boundary The boundary becomes perforated Does that make sense? Okay, yep cool Okay, and so then it becomes your direct experience that the boundary has become perforated So you went from what is more of like a centralized connectome? Neuroscientifically to what is more of like a decentralized connectome or a universalized Connectome where you now see that this is one intelligence talking to itself in an explorative way exploring one of endless possibility through this Earth orbiting the star and there's many other earth's orbiting stars And that there's many other potential Universes where there are other earth's orbiting stars with other conscious agents that are exploring possibility Right. You sort of following that train a little bit Okay, we'll consider them to be let's let's get down into the details of this particular statement Do you consider there to be other universes or Is the fact that it exists And the criteria for it to be in the universe meaning it exists imply that there's only one universe So that is why don't you just call the collection of them universe? So if there are two universes the collection is the universe It's just let's say subset of the universe to subset. So I'm curious in your like in the definition of Universe does yours include all that there is to reality because if that's what it means then there can't be multiple universes Well, just remember that universe means one song And so the universe says Or the multiverse or the metaverse would mean many songs potentially up to infinite songs And so when you begin viewing creation this universe as one song You begin seeing that the amount of possible songs is Endless you'll never come to the end of different ways that you can arrange musical notes into songs and If we if we also stay with the perforation a little bit more get back to that. Yeah. Yeah Okay, the boundaries Beautiful. So I know that you know and it's so beautiful because I know you know And that because you've been searching You've been searching for as roomy says you've been looking from room to room for the diamond that is already around your neck Mm-hmm and six months ago. Boom. I went into a nervous system shock when I finally got what roomy meant Can you explain what you mean by nervous system shock? What happened to you? Well, just like 10 minutes of just curled over in the fetal position because I finally got it Which is I am it we are it exploring Okay, here's a counter proposition Given that the mind is self-deceptive. How do you know that that's not a deception given that plenty of what we experience Is said to be an illusion. Well, how do you know what you just experienced is not just another illusion Free will is an experience by the way, but free will is Also said to be an illusion So how do you know that this insight is a reflection of reality rather than the deceptive quality of one's own mind? Simply because you feel it extremely deeply to be true Is that the criteria because if that is the criteria? Well, there's plenty of contradictory deeply felt theories and truths I hope you don't feel like i'm attacking you man. Not at all. I love you By the way, I also want to say that this conversation I feel like is One of the best ways for the internet For all of us to undergo A process of understanding what the nature of reality is and so I i'm feeling a really strong brotherhood Between us where we can potentially continue doing this maybe once a quarter or something Where we're just revisiting where we're at in this process of podcast therapy In fluorescence just on the blooming of a flower Yes by time Yes, and look at how many people were in the comments saying that we love you both This is great. Like this is I do feel really strong about this because also curt what you're doing in a sense is you're playing Like the question you just asked was so perfect, which is that how do you know that this mind that is so magical? How do you know that it's uniting with the nature of reality and that it's not deceiving you? That's a great question. And so many people want to hear these styles of this is basically, you know Science and spirituality, which we both represent both We both represent both. This is them both coming to a union It's us exploring the synthesis between science and spirituality, which are the two greatest driving forces Behind our planet period There's nothing that drives us more than those two forces And so to unite them to figure out how to unite them I feel like is the 21st century This is what what we are doing this century because we're turned inward and we're analyzing more and more of the Interscape At the same time that we're meeting planetary basic needs and we're maximizing our external architectures that enable people to self actualize and self realize and so I'm feeling a really strong resonance between us and so Let's let's explore what you asked so I can restate it if you like I have the question. Okay There's so many. Okay here here here. Okay It's uniting with the force that made you It's a clear Uniting with the force that made you. Okay. You're giving me an answer Do you mind telling me the question that you're answering because I want to make sure we're on the same page Yeah, otherwise it's simply a statement of the fortune cookie How do how does one know? Yes, when their Mystical experience and again mysticism just means becoming one with God means becoming one with the divine How does one know when their mystical or yoga yoga means union? How does one know when their union is True versus delusional Okay, well Was that the question that's what a no pure because in the question you're you're assuming an answer Which is the mysticism which is the unity with God and the yoking? So i'm saying how do you know that whatever you see is true not whether your insight about Sorry, not whether or not the union is true. I'm asking how do you know your felt experience if what we're taking primary is experience All right, man. Let's do it together I love it. Yeah, we're both on the standing game now to relax the lower back. Yeah, it's great Yeah, and also I I need to I'm gonna go for a long walk tomorrow as I mentioned that I I've been I've been cooped up and working and I'm looking forward to having a great rest tonight, man I appreciate this conversation And I'm having a joy talking to you and if you want to talk for longer to another time more than welcome to Okay, so let me get back to yes, which is that it sounds like you are saying Correct me if i'm wrong, but this is also echoed by people like spira, which is that experience is primary and From experience you can derive some truths and some one of these truths are That we're all one and that all there is is experience or all there is is awareness Sometimes awareness being aware of awareness, but awareness nonetheless And I'm asking How does one know your experience of so-and-so? Well uniting was like a force that gave rise to you was my answer to that question Okay, you're saying it's true because it's uniting it's true because that's good. I like that and then how about also it's true because There's an experience of basically uniting with the Energy that gave rise to you the force that gave rise to you the force that gives rise to all life When people talk about Oneness or unity it's like uniting with that force Itself that gave rise if we play with the big bang theory It would be like it would be like uniting with the force that gave rise to the big bang That would be what? Okay, now let me see if I can correct that and if this correction is apt is it More like realizing that you're uniting because one cannot help but unite they can only realize that this uniting is occurring all the time They're realizing. Yeah, that's why it's called self realization or god realization It's a realization What's actualization mean then sometimes people say self actualization is that a synonym and if they're different How are they different? I love this beautiful question. So When you view Self realization or god realization that is the turn inward and uniting with that force that gave rise to you like we were just discussing And then self actualization is more like the tony robbins style or like gary veiner chuck style like executing a dream Like actualizing your unique firework of life Mm-hmm. So it's a little bit more around Empowerment versus enlightenment, but those two are the same side of the coin two different sides of the same coin So self actualization and self realization are actually one So most people when they go outward to actualize something that's like what I've noticed is that people from mainstream society The first thing that they do is they go on a hero's journey, which is self actualization They usually go into the unknown to try and Go through some challenges and obstacles to gain some sort of profound insight treasure And then to bring that back to their community And so it's usually people leaving the nine to five pursuing entrepreneurship stuff like that And then what happens is they also undergo a process of the turn inward in understanding Well, what is the nature of of consciousness? What is the nature of my reality at a deeper level than the material Ames that I have and so that's usually where those two end up meeting What's why why do you yeah, why do you ask? But I also would like to play with the the perforation a little bit more of your essence because I feel like that's where for a moment Like we had something so unique there, which was that you know, you knew that Becoming transpersonal was key. So maybe we play on like what have been your experiences with becoming more perforated or transpersonal well I've had experiences that where I've felt as if what I am is a Tentacle in an octopus and that going back to the source shares Me with everyone though. We're all connected and it's we're temporarily differentiated But then again, I say I've had that experience and in some ways I I think it's true, but in some ways I don't take my experiences or what is said with agreement in the scientific or even spiritual community is apodictic like most people I wonder what's the alternative and I'm just not I'm just not sold. I'm just not sold on it It could be true, but not at the same time that I wonder even if it is true Is it saying anything that's not a tautology? So for example Rupert Spires seems seems to be saying Something both non-trivial and and trivial at the same time Experiences experience seems to me to be at the bottom of what he's saying, which is a tautology So I just I don't know I love it. What a beautiful experience that you've had a beautiful realization that you've had because in essence, that's what Science is even pointing to in the same way that spirituality has been pointing to for millennia Which is that there is this There's this unit you there's this unified differentiation And then the differentiation wakes up to its unification So here's a question I have for you. Yeah, how does Fractionation occur from unity? It's beautiful. It's I know it's the most unbelievably profound thing through what we hypothesize one of the ways we hypothesize this is There's a veil of forgetting That's one of the components. That's really important. So you you know upon differentiation that there's a veil of forgetting That has to be pierced through to remember So it's like hide-and-seek. You see the archetype in kids and you see the archetype in animals even The hide-and-seek style archetype is sort of like the game that is being played So there's some sort of a veil that has to be pierced through to remember this, which is there Yeah, go ahead. If there's a reason to forgetting Just like kids playing hide-and-seek Is there that also seems to me like that's on purpose. Maybe it's dangerous to remember Is there a danger to remembering? Like why should we remember even if it's true? Perfect. Exactly. This infinite being is far greater and far more Elucidated than us and it said hey man, you should differentiate and then we're coming back and saying no we should unify and in fact That's the highest good. How do we know? It's perfect. I love this. This is the exact riddle to the universe. This is the exact riddle to infinity Expressing itself is this which is that you you purposely refracted and differentiated to Explore and play. Why would you pierce through this veil and become unified again when the whole point was to differentiate? And it's a beautiful question and it's the riddle because you do both Simult you do both simultaneously where you pierce through this veil and remember so you don't Create unnecessary malevolence because you think that people are separate from the same unified life force But then while you pierce through that veil and remember you also express yourself differently You don't forget that curt is uniquely beautifully differentiated than atlas than grouper than donald then Then chris Or ellen you can call me atlas. Yeah. Yeah, it's It's it is this new Yeah, it's since About two years ago. One of my friends uh came came up search results Google About about two years ago. One of my friends came came through and was like, you know atlas is Is what I feel like is using your name and then only recently about eight months ago or so Did I make the transition fully to just one one word atlas as as my name from al and sakyan which some people Yeah, yeah officially. It's it's been great, bro. Yeah It's been great and atlas has a lot of profound You know cartography is one of the things that I'm most interested in right some sort of Cartography around the nature of reality. That's why we're here together, bro You're literally mapping the landscape of the theories of everything and I have the same style of passion to this And so and we're both young you're like 30, right? 32 32 and I'm 28. We're both right there, bro. That's our little average Yep, okay You just said that's the mystery of the universe is that Well, the point is to do both Yes, because everyone everyone promulgates Oneness when they they're like people are awake. They're like it's one planet So there's some people see it from a physicalism perspective and they see it like there's only one planet Uh, there's 10 million species. They're all They're it's like the Gaia thing everything evolved on the planet So there's the oneness mentality there and then there's the people that turn inward to consciousness And then they say oneness and they say unification and they say that But meanwhile the whole point of this process was to differentiate And so then you have the people that are like hyper differentiation oriented and so they're the ones that are like Everyone actualized their unique firework into the arena of reality and so you have to merge the two the reason why it's the riddle is because you have to merge unification and differentiation Well, this to me again is why I see non dualism as thinly veiled nihilism because If the point of existence is to merge what's been differentiated That's predicated on the differentiation and the differentiated people are considered to be evil Which means we need the evil Which sounds to me like an argument for not doing good nor evil because either are okay Yeah, just so I would take one step back from there and I would say that um So so differentiation does not necessarily equate with uh ignorance or evil and whatnot I would yeah, I would potentially say that if you if you can If you can pierce through the veil and merge unification and differentiation simultaneously you can have What is like the most? holistic understanding of how infinity expresses itself as realities Um, so there's one unified force But it purposely differentiates itself to undergo this play And to pierce through this veil to remember itself and then to express itself from the place of remembrance Do you see that last key? so if you express yourself from the place of solely differentiation You will not know that you come from the same unified force But if you first unite with the unified force And then express yourself like a firework You'll come from a place of unity as you differential Differentially express yourselves. And so that's why The phrase you got to go inward first to go outward right. It's the sure cause of delight You got to go inward first to go outward right. It's the sure cause of delight Yeah But you can go outward from a place of not going inward first and that's still just as beautiful at the same time So because it's the way that infinity is expressing itself as somebody that chooses to not go Inward first and they choose to Pursue material they choose to pursue Clout or money or fame or seeking worthiness or seeking validation from other people And so that's also a unique exploration at the same time But eventually you you're probably familiar with things like the parable of the prodigal sun You'll get a nice little sledgehammer the drill sergeant of awakening Suffering comes with a sledgehammer and whaps you on the forehead And it forces you to turn inward because you don't actually get any long-term peace and happiness from acquiring material possessions or acquiring clout or fame Or trying to extract worthiness or validation from people And so the turn inward is almost inevitable, which is part of it's like an attractor This is where you might resonate with this. It's like an attractor curve. It's like a it's a You have this complex mathematics that the universe is evolving towards Which is in a sense life waking up And then turning inwards to understand itself as the unified force that differentiated But you got this You're right there With I know but most people I'm sure you would say are right there anyway because it's just It's always with us. At least that's what the claim is. Yeah If you cannot be it's you're telling me I still don't see how Or why An undifferentiated entity Even conceivably can differentiate because let's say it picks a point to do so that point would have to be distinguished But we already said there's no distinguishing feature. So how do you distinguish without distinguishing? Your question is again I feel like it is literally the most important question in in the nature of reality And the I feel like one of the only ways to artistically be able to express this to kids is by looking at how white light refracts prismatically into the Rainbow gradient because that is sort of how this looks like where you have this unified Undifferentiated light that then refracts into the prismatic differentiation Which sort of looks like in a sense the evolution of awareness or consciousness waking up to Yeah itself that's an argument for pluralism to begin with though because if we investigate that analogy a bit further the white light was never white the white light was Multitudinous to begin with So so if you can give me a different analogy that would help So in the white. Well, isn't this the case that inherent in the white light is the potentiality for the diffra the differentiation No inherent. Sorry. Not not don't mean to say no like so arrogantly, but white light comprises different colors From the get go. There's no such photon as a white photon So if you were to stop any individual one you could detect its frequency, which is the same as its color Yes, the prism doesn't take white light and then create multiple different strands It That's already there in the white light So that so again, I'll ask my question, which is how is it from a place of non-duality where there is no You said it's inherent in the the source light, right? Isn't that the kind of the point is that inherent in the Infinity expressing itself is the ability to differentiate and then undergo this creative process Okay, what I want to know is how do you differentiate? Where do you differentiate if there is no difference? So how do you differentiate here over here? Is it random? Well, then is there a random number generator that's outside the universe is the random generator a part of the universe Then there's the universe plus a random generator. Well, is that not a distinguishing? Is that not a distinct entity? So is so the universe is a random number generator at the same? That's what I'm saying and then if you have a random number generator Well, then you have obviously differences in digits, which is not non-dual. So this non. This is why I'm This is what I'm wondering what is what allows for this differentiation from Undifferentiated material when that's all that there is all there is is on differentiation Yeah, that's beautiful beautiful I yeah, I'm asking I'm like genuinely curious. I don't know how how to it's like wearing a circle I don't understand it. I don't know how to do it and the same thing is true on my end, which is that I can't Speak to how the unbounded mystery that we are is truly being Played, we can only create maps that get close to the territory And so that's what we're doing right now is we're talking about maps That try their best to get as close to the territory as possible It's almost like the best thing that the intelligence can do with itself Is undergo the process of forgetting and as it remembers it tries to make maps of itself and so One of my hypotheses is that benoit mandelbrot that the infinite that the infinite fractal zoom is as close of a Approximation as we can get to how the infinite intelligence works Because you you said in your last couple of sentences that there's a a random number generator So there's something that's absolutely chaotic about it But at the same time there's something that's self-similar and purposeful about it And so that's what it seems like is that you have both merged together where you have the it's like a chef If you viewed god or the supreme intelligence that we are as a chef We know both what tastes good in our food, which is basically this You know this two-eyed, you know four-limbed DNA encoded vehicle But also we want to taste new Qualities in our food and so we also are randomly adding Things into our expressions creative expressions that we then see how they Unfold how does that play with you? From what you've said it doesn't sound like non-duality to me It sounds like there's dualities all over the place And what i'm so like i get i have you ever heard of how the Non-duality and duality and individuation Are all simultaneously true? Have you ever heard that from a guest? No, no, so this is what we call true simultaneity so there's the reason why you have people like rupert and And many other people that basically, you know, and you've heard Bernardo even say this on the show before as well But the only reason why he comes in with the position of metaphysical idealism is to like shift people towards that But not to say that then physicalism is untrue Because what you want to do is you want to hold that both are true simultaneously Consciousness is dependent on physicalism just like physicalism is dependent on consciousness They're both dependent on one another and so that's where you get this simultaneity where you have both non-duality And duality and individuation that all happen simultaneously. Are they both Equal to one another or they just dependent on one another? It feels like they codependently Are part of the architecture Everything is codependently part of the architecture non-duality Duality individuation is all codependently part of the architecture You'll never be able to Get away with having only one of them. You have to always be able to refer to all of them at the same time Like that's what a Jedi is A Jedi is somebody that can navigate into the space of non-duality Have a conversation go to the space of duality have a conversation go to the space of individuation And self-actualization and have a conversation and that's what I feel like you're doing That's what I feel like I've been doing is we've been training like Jedi's to become polymaths To be able to navigate the space Like a Jedi and then that's what sort of gives you the most holistic understanding of what the nature is Okay, let me get technical here. Is that okay? Of course, and then let's wrap because I know you have to go soon, right? Okay. Okay, but I Eminently, I'm enjoying this conversation. I would like to continue me too pro Okay, I again like I So it's the architecture more fundamental than the entities that are dependent on it So you're saying there's duality non duality individuation And then there's the architecture that unites them in some way shape or form. So is this architecture the birthplace Yes, and also what makes the environment Um, the birthplace and also what sustains the substrate of what this is. Yeah So it's like soil Yeah, or ground is another way to potentially put it. It's like a groundless ground Is the architecture possible without the flower that it sprouts? I feel like those have to codependently Um arise Okay, so then let me get technical to say so so architecture if architecture then duality if duality then architecture Say that one more time If architecture then duality if duality then architecture Say that another way, I'm not sure. Okay. Okay. Yeah, okay If there is the architecture then it's necessary that there's duality as well as non duality Let's just say non duality for the sickness. So if there's the architecture, then there's non duality If non duality exists, then the architecture exists. Is that a correct statement or no It feels so you're mentioning the codependency. Yes. Yes architecture exists architecture is my little Bomb here. So if this guy exists does necessarily non dualism exist So if this does this necessarily exist Non dual non dualism is blue architecture is green Hmm. Oh, I see what I think I see what you're saying. Yeah Well, doesn't that also kind of play into what we were saying a moment ago with how consciousness and physicalism are ultimately one Well, you were saying that yes Yes, I understand because you can't have you in a sense You can't have consciousness without physicalism and you can't have physicalism without consciousness You can't have a reality without observation But you also can't have observation without reality So the two are one here Okay Because then if that's true then mathematically one would say they're equivalent and then Because if you have an if then statement in both directions, you have what's called an if and only if Okay, so then and that means they're isomorphic Okay, now if they're isomorphic that means you can replace one with the other And so why is one giving a Why is the prevailing place given to non dualism over dualism or over the architecture and and I feel like this is This is exactly what I was referencing with why Bernardo Castro and why he and others have said that they're not they're not trying to They're just trying to help people shift To become aware of the unity Because they feel like by becoming aware of what he calls metaphysical idealism by Shifting into that position It creates more of a sense of unity and oneness which then when you build from that position You can actually actualize the planet's potential at a higher degree Then if you were building from the place of separation and from the place of differentiation Only without having tasted the unity and so it's almost like a temporary Prioritization for the turn inward in order to maximize the exterior architectural potential Okay, you're saying in order too So is that goal higher than the truth that apparently is used to derive the potential to execute on that goal? So for example If non dualism led to a place of destruction for the earth, would you still advocate for non dualism? Let's let's hypothetically Now you may say logically that's impossible, but I'm saying hypothetically I'm sure people can entertain what's logically impossible. So what would you do? If somehow the turn into why you're laughing if somehow the turn into oneness created more Planetary catastrophe than separation Yeah, well here's one way it's not so it's not so out of left field because in some sense narcissism is self-love and exaggerated self-love you Someone may say that that's not love at all, but then you're just quibbling over what love is and no That's not quibbling like that's a serious serious issue But it's not as if what love is is trivial. So let's say narcissism for the sake of this argument is self-love Overly so well if we're all connected why is self-love not Not the same as loving this Loving everyone else if we're all the same. So if one has narcissism, why is that not a net? Increment to society rather than a decrement Okay, so one can see how Oneness can lead to a destruction of the earth potentially in a hypothetical universe Now i'm asking if that is the case. Would you still follow oneness or do you serve life higher than that? Like what's your god? Is your god oneness or is your god humanity? well It's the simultaneity That's which is what we were talking about a moment ago where you can hold both oneness and differentiation at the same time And if you can do that Then you can have the most holistic picture on how infinity expresses itself, which is what you are You're not separate from infinity expressing itself You are the same force that gave rise to you And so if you know that it's both unified and differentiated you can have the most holistic perspective and have the most As you actualize yourself as you firework yourself You can have it be in the most Prosperous way for yourself in the collective because you come from the place of being truly Gnostic, you know gnosis means That you're you have full knowledge of the nature in your being And so when you come from a gnostic place you express yourself in the most Coherent most benevolent way. It's actually what lautsa called wu way It's called effortless action It's effortless because you are a gnostic being because you know the dow you are the dow You are it and when you're it you don't commit malevolence You purify your beingness to not commit malevolence Let me restate the questioning because i'm not seeing the answer In i'm not seeing hearing how what you say connects to the question the question is If you could if the choice was If sorry if what came with oneness was a destruction of the planet Would you still advocate for oneness? Hypothetically, I know you may say that's impossible. Well, even if you say that's impossible Then you're putting a limit on an infinite infinite potential. So you're saying some Some of what is within this non dual immaterial Oh, that's a great point right architecture is that you can't put a limit on the infinite potential Which means that there are civilizations That potentially emerge that gets so turned into oneness that somehow that turns into a disastrous scenario. That's cool Yes, okay. So would you still advocate for oneness if oneness would lead to the to planetary destruction? Let's say Hypothetically the beauty of the question is we just we just went through one of those Explorations where as infinity expresses itself are their potentialities Where a civilization becomes overly excessively oneness and unity oriented to where it somehow blows itself up based on that And is that a possibility? In infinite potential We're playing with infinite possibility. So that could be in fact happening right now and actually to a certain extent, isn't that what we saw with the with the 20th century We saw that with when you go overly collectivist and you don't Have an equal amount of individuation and sovereignty with the individual. That's where you have the disastrous um Tens of millions of deaths across the Overly collectivist style of yeah, yes, okay But now what it sounds like an argument for pragmatism rather than truth and in the objective sense of truth Or the correspondent sense because you're saying what we need is a balance. Well, how's that balance? We need a balance between non dualism separation or dualism or plurality Why don't we keep why don't we keep calling it non duality and individuation? Seems to be a good way to to put it. Sure. Yeah non duality An individuation oneness and individuation. Yes. Yes. Okay. And then what will you say you use the word extreme Not to use the word extreme already implies a value now. You've already valued the wholeness of the The oneness of the planet or the thriving of people or the lessing of stuff the lessening of suffering and so on but That to me sounds pragmatic and not Not with respect to The What's true like I understand that in pragmatism they have a different definition of truth But if you're using that definition of truth, and that's great We need to know that But if you're using if you're saying it's objectively true like Like there's the correspondence theory of truth. There's something that's outside me that these words are somehow Isomorphic to then Right Do you remember the story that you gave about your transpersonal experience where you felt like a tentacle of the cosmic octopus? So that is individuation in non duality So it's an absolute centerlessness Which is the big cosmic storm that we are Simultaneously as it is that you are a unique individuation. You're the unique tentacle in that cosmic storm But you in order to understand That you are the cosmic storm you have to in a sense You have to perforate your skin so that you can burst outside of the contracted identity of solely being an individual to also being the universe expressing itself as Also cur simultaneously Right and like that's I would say that's the one thing that oneness goes really far to the extreme on An individuation goes really far to the extreme on and if we can synthesize them into a unity That's where the Is when you say that's something i'm getting at that i wasn't able to express before and forgive me if i'm loose with my words It's difficult for me to hold on to right now What i'm you're using the word extreme What makes you say extreme it's there's a value embedded in that then how do you get that value Where are you where are you getting this value from to say that something is extreme versus not? Good well, we have our at least our end of one our own civilization where we saw in the In the 20th century we saw that shift into hyper Collectivism that turned very disastrous and we've also seen in the west we've seen a an overly excessive focus on individualism as well and that From at least our end of one we see that there are extremes Actually in better left on said your documentary you explored one of those extremes right And so now you see where you have where the extreme on the political Right in the u.s. And the extreme on the political left in the u.s. Have their own Disaster disastrous codes and then if you can sort of if you can gain a higher level awareness where you can hold both of the those political sides and sort of Archive the codes that are malevolent and uplift the codes that are good And merge them. That's the same thing with individualism and collectivism non-duality and individuation The political left and political right in the u.s. The u.s. And china You can keep going with these dichotomies because what you want to do is you want to take the best from to the two and merge them into one rather than Keep playing with the polar negatives on each on each one of them And that's called what I call the sorting algorithm That's from chapter Seven of high-level perception the first visual synthesis that I did and actually I got the words sorting algorithm from Brett Weinstein when he was moderating the debate between jordan peterson and sam harrison van couver He said when they were talking about science of spirituality and how to merge the two Brett said so jordan you have a sorting algorithm of sorts And so that's where it was ding ding ding ding ding. That's what we're looking for How do you sort the good stuff of non-duality? How do you sort the good stuff of individualism or science and spirituality or the u.s. And china or the left and the right and how do you merge them? That's what yeah, we have Alan what i'm wondering i know we got to get going what i'm wondering is you use the word good there There's many Yeah, there's much language that's value laden and i'm wondering where are you getting the value from That's what i'm wondering. So when you say extreme when you say good Why is this good and this not and why is this extreme and this not that's basically what i'm wondering So the one force that we are undergoes a process of figuring out what is Most good to bring up. So we have to go through our process of sense making Right. Did you have daniel schmacktenberger on yet? Okay, so he his thing is, you know communal sense making and so we have to go through a process of figuring out how to make sense of what is good from these Supposingly Dual sides and then to merge them into one So it's not that atlas or curt or rupert or bernardo or whoever has the answer to what is good And everybody should follow that leader, but it's more like a decentralized swarm intelligence That is The life force that we are figures out what is good and then ends up Fireworking that we're gonna have to cut this conversation short man. We'll continue later. Yeah, that's so good. Wow Thank you so much, man Wow, yeah, so by the way, what made you how did you find out about the channel and what made you reach out to me? Or I may have reached out to you actually actually remember In the I think it was in the middle of 2020 That's when you started the channel, right? Yep, okay. It's about a year ago I was so happy that you existed and I still am I'm so happy because there was there was basically There was nobody That was doing it yet and then you filled the spot Because nobody was doing it Nobody was interviewing these greatest minds and then trying to figure out a landscape of the theories of everything And as soon as I saw your channel go up. I was just so pumped and so uh jacked and and And then and then you did what most people can't Well, most people can't do which is not only did you come up with the idea it came through you to do this But then furthermore is you did it for a year and you've grown such a tremendous catalog of content and a tremendous Free educational library around this and then so you've provided this great resource for people And you've created somewhat of a monetization stability for yourself to ensure that you can independently continue doing what you're passionate about And so I'm so jacked but of course take the two weeks of time just to rejuvenate yourself, my brother Give your heart and your mind and your gut and your wife and your just give yourself the space To just relax into the profundity of who you are and what you've achieved You know congratulate yourself for that period of a couple weeks and then you know get back to it How do you How long have you been doing this for I know that yours is also extremely personal Sorry in person started out as events as far as I know How long has that been going on? How long has the podcast been going on? What's your goal with it? In 2015 I initially started asking people on the streets thought provoking questions So about six years ago And then I and then I and then I transitioned to hosting a science comedy show in san francisco And then I transitioned to hosting simulation In 2017 which is where I was just asking these greatest minds these stop provoking questions to do that congrats man You're like 24 at that time exactly 24. Yep. Yep, bro Yep, and and that but that's I feel like that's 14 year olds and 18 year olds to begin asking these big questions at those teenage years and In doing so they can rocket themselves forward at unprecedented rates Yeah, yeah, you know I've been I had got to get going I've been surprised that most of my audience is actually not young I think there are quite a few young people but most of them are They're far older than you would think there's some some are 60 70. Some are professors. Oh man Yes, bro. Yes, I receive an email from a professor and or multiple It's like a huge huge compliment because those are the most Those are the toughest crowds They're like I used to do stand up and there are some crowds that are tough. Well in this space a professor is a tough crowd Okay Okay, well, we have a lot of love from our audience and we love you guys. Thank you so much. We're so grateful You guys are coming from Both of our our channels and we're so so grateful that you love this and that We're going to come back. I feel like Kurt and I hopefully once every like quarter or something We'll come back with one another. Yeah, exactly And thank you everyone and infinite love for you. Let us know how you feel about the episode in the comments below We would love to hear from you that simultaneity around non duality and individuation and dualism all this type of stuff and also like the video and help that youtube algorithm also check out the Links in the bio to subscribing to Kurt's channel Also, you can find his recent documentary better left unset down there as well And subscribe to our channel simulation If you haven't yet shared this video on theories of everything where we have this conversation with other people That you feel like this would profoundly resonate with And that is all we love you fam. Anything else cart? Yeah, what i'm trying to build with theories of everything is both I don't want to use the word 2.0. It's so old now but something like science 2.0 or science 3.0 Think about this science progressed. It wasn't science before and then it became this now, which means that You can wonder just just a thought experiment. What will it be? And what are the what's the criteria for what makes something science science? And partly what what i'm doing with theories of everything is not only advancing the state of theories of everything By explicating tells but also what does the next science look like? I call it I have a couple of names names for it One is it can't pronounce it but abgenosis and the reason why is because Abgena means knowledge into the eastern end is a specific kind of knowledge and then the nauseous obviously means knowledge to the west And I imagine that there's going to be an integration of the two I also imagine that there's going to be a third. I don't see why there's just a dichotomy Maybe there's one that we haven't come up with we think experience is primary now But maybe 100 years from now. It's it's beyond its transcended experience and rationality. It's something else. I don't know it sounds I I don't know but either way I'm trying to build that with the channel. I also have a discord on the channel I mean for the channel for this So join that should go to theories of every search theories of everything on youtube You'll see it. It looks like a apparently looks like a rhesus peanut butter cup logo The link is in the bio below and also doing it. Are you vegan or Am I vegan Oh, um No, I'm no, but I'm not especially carnivorous either, but I don't yeah, I don't have a food Just we're patience. No, I eat whatever most of the time. I don't like fish. I don't like seafood, but I Except salmon. I like salmon By the way, we had another remember. I messaged you this brando from our channel said hope we have an episode with frank yang I think hurt can make amazing interview with him remember I messaged you and said that it could be good for you to have frank yang and Bentinium wassaro on the show for theories of everything. So that's something to also consider I will message you about it. We'll talk about it again right after this Okay, love you guys. I'm going to end the broadcast. We'll stay in the studio for just a minute We'll talk to you guys soon. Just be on against me. Thank you so much. Thank you