 Welcome to Breeder Syndicate 2.0, where we explore the history of a clandestine scene. Researching everything from cannabis strain history, old smuggling tales from the first person perspective, to breeding science and news on current subculture. I'm your host, Matthew, and I'll occasionally be joined by my homey not-so-dog, Breeder and Grower from Mendicino, to speak on these subjects and sometimes interview other participants. Our goal is to document this history before it's written by corporations and others who just weren't there. Let's start writing some wrongs. Welcome to the underground. We joined this conversation already in progress, and it kind of ends abruptly too. So, yeah, let's get to it. Just keeping. All right, dude, how you been? Good. It's a little bit earlier for you guys there. Yeah. I'm sorry, it looked like you just got out of bed. That's what Matt just told me, but I've been up since 6 a.m. I don't know what the fucking deal is. He's lying. He's rolled out of bed. Yeah, so let's see. I just hit record, and I figure we're just going to have a conversation and just like go through seeds and just see where it leads us on conversations. Yeah, okay. Yeah, and I kind of split the seeds while you can record. Are you recording now? Yeah. Okay, so I did. Did you want to do your intro thing or? Nah, it's okay. We'll just wander around. So, I did kind of go through the seeds and I figured there was certain ones you might be interested in. There's certain ones you probably don't really care much about. They were, again, I never classified myself as a breeder. Sure. I was a seed maker. Yeah. Not a thing, right? Except for a couple little projects I did for myself where I was looking for certain characteristics for myself and for my crew. Sure. And also in turn for the general public because I honestly think they would benefit from what I was chasing. Sure. But a lot of the genetics, even the stuff I found, is just, you know, somebody was in Amsterdam. They brought back a few packs of this, a few packs of that. We grew them out, crossbred, put F1s out on the market for, I think it was six seeds. I sent you some of those catalogs, right? Yeah, yeah. So six seeds are 25 bucks or something like that. Yeah. Right? Just to kind of, and I'll send you some more stuff. Like Chris, who was the founder of the Great Canadian Emporium and Hemp Nation. So again, one of the earlier, I'm going to, I go out there and say, I think the first seed bank in Canada, that openly sold seeds on the market kind of thing. Even though it was just retail and our website or his website. Yeah. And it was, you know, we're going to go back to like 95. Everything had to be, we didn't have any kind of this wicks or everything. He was doing an entire website through raw code. Okay. Yeah. I remember doing that. Yeah. It was quite the process to do this. So it was pretty nice to, you know, Yeah. 95 is early. 95 is early for HDL. Yeah. And, you know, and this again, this is going to bring up what we spoke about the very first time we spoke, because I called my black dominant 95, my widow 98. That's right. And then we started to look into it with Shawnee kids and he was just like, nah, I whittled it. Dominant didn't come out till 96. So I was like, that's fucked up that I would mislabel that because I literally been calling that since 95. Yeah. And so I talked to Chris about it. And I was like, this is a seed catalog that I remember it in what was on the cover. And we were able to pull out one of the old hemp nation seed menus. Yeah. And there's black domino. And it was in this was from May of 96. Yep. So which means I would have bought those seeds and sprouted them most likely in late 95. Yeah. In order to grow them out enough to reproduce them. Yeah. What would happen often is they would release new lines in and around the cannabis cup. Right. Which was back then in, you know, the last week of November. Yeah, November. Yeah. So like there could be a thing where you're like, oh, it's, you know, I got it in 95. Right. But it was released on November 27, 1995. So it literally came out like a month before the, you know, this is in the 95 catalog. Yeah. Yeah. That's when we found the catalog. It said 95. The website is 96. So then I was thinking about that also because most of the people traveling from here to Amsterdam were going for the cup. Yeah. So that's when they're buying all the seed. So they would have brought the seed back to us in, like you say, early December 95. Yeah. I mean, like in the Jack Herrera, for instance, I mean, obviously like 95, they had that whole themed cup based on him. Yeah. They did the worldwide release of the Jack Herrera line at the cup. Right. So it was one of those times like for the Dutch or whatever, where you could get a lot of free publicity. There was already all the cameramen, you know, and all the ad guys and all the people that were going to write stories were already there. So you'd get a lot of free press on the new new. Right. So I kind of viewed it as like that was at least in the 90s era, it was pretty traditional for them. You know, and then on top of that too, maybe they had a line that was like, that was about to come out, but they'd enter it into the cup and then it would win something and then the seeds would be immediately available. Right. And you'd see those like super glossy, multi-page centerfolds in high times. Right. And it was all about driving interest. Right. And it was a business and stuff. And you know, it kind of, this kind of brings me to my other topic before we really get into the bag of beans here is, you know, I was talking with Matt too, like I had some friends reach out and kind of question some of the things that I was, the way I was remembering them. And then so it got me thinking about that, the BD 95. I was like, I swear it's 95. And it took me months, you know, for Chris to dig out some of our old hep nation stuff to see, well, no, here's the BD on that. Right. So, and what I was trying to explain to, you know, people that have questions about how some of us recall certain stories or certain events. And I think not so you talked about this a few times in the past where a lot of people were like secretive and they didn't want to share the stories. Right. And then there was people like me that wanted to share the stories, don't mind sharing the stories. And if somebody remembers it differently, then at least here we're giving them a platform or we're giving, I'm trying to invoke the conversation, you know, don't text me on my cell phone and say, hey, listen, what you said was wrong. Right. And if, if that's the case, then correct me and I'll come online or whenever I talk to anybody in newspaper, magazine, whatever, I'll correct it kind of thing. But I can only regurgitate how I remember things. And I don't, you know, if I mispronounce somebody's name or I have a date wrong or, you know, like the story that we were talking about last time with the seeds that we used in Switzerland. Yeah. This is a story. So that's why I was asking if you guys know anybody that was working with Neville back then that could collaborate or confirm that, that story would be great because this is what I've heard. And you know what, if I misspeak or something like that, there's, when you air this, there's a whole bunch of comments. People can comment, correct us. So we know that exactly you can change certain things. Don't get upset. You know, I mean, it did, you know, I didn't have a riff to get established because of this, but it did bring up some, you know, conversation. Sure. You know, they got a heated conversation, but it got like, no, no, that's not how it happened. Well, then tell me how you remember it. I'll tell you how I remember it. And we can figure it out. We're out there kind of. Matt and I deal with this all the time. And it is a good, it is a good time to chat about it because we're always open to like someone remembering something different or new information comes to light. Most of the time we talk, it's more like, this is the best that we know right now. Right. Right. And memories are. And yeah, I know. Especially. I hope they're the same. You guys are for brief seconds. Yeah. Memories, memories are funny things. You know, and we'd like to say that memories are etched in stone and stuff like that. But, you know, like they're just not. And then you start thinking back to like 25, 30 years ago or, you know, even 20 years ago or whatever. And, you know, what, what's real. Right. And that, and that, that's definitely part of it because I mean, we have, there's certain stories where it's like people get all upset about, you know, one camper and other. But the fact of the matter is, is there was two or three guys there and they don't agree on all parts. Right. So if they don't agree on all parts and they were indisputably the people involved. Yeah. How does the rest of you figure out which, which tail you want to believe. Right. Right. And that's, it festers in us like, you know, the story and I've regurgitated stories numerous times. Hence why I wrote a book because I put it out there. So if somebody does remember something different, like, you know, sorry, it's in print now. But yeah, I had this conversation for 20, 30 years prior to, and this is how it's always been told kind of thing. And, you know, I put it as, especially with cannabis because listen, when we get super high and we have conversations or events happen, sometimes we might not remember them that well period, let alone correctly. But, you know, we look at our elders, that before the internet, before newspapers, before, you know, magazines, before we would, you know, there was just elders sitting in circles. When I did, went to rainbow gatherings with the, the camp we stayed with was granola funk and they would set up a stage and it's the rainbow gathering. There's no newspapers going around. It was, if you wanted to learn the history of the rainbow trail, you go to granola funk every night at six o'clock or eight o'clock and there'd be a stage set up, which is built from, you know, logs we find on the trees, we find on the ground. And the elders would tell the story. That's all that we have. So with cannabis, because it was so secretive, because of the laws being so part of who said what, it became secretive. And the stories do get muffled and the stories do get jumbled. So again, I invite people to post stuff. If they hear something UI or somebody else says, even if it's out of another podcast or you read it in a magazine article, if you have two cents at it, because everybody's two cents will add up to a dollar someday. For sure. We kind of look at it too, like, you know, that whole vibe that you just, that you were just, you know, speaking of is kind of the way we look at things where like it's basically just like, it's like a lot of these chats and stuff are conversation starters. And we absolutely welcome like more info or differing points of view or tidbits that get added, like ad that get weaved in. I find that like the people that get really huffy about it generally are the ones where like they're making money off their reputation or they're selling seeds or they get locked into one particular historical tale. Right. That suits them. And then they end up having to defend that one. Right. And I think there's, you know, I think there's a lot of damage done in this industry because like you're saying, when it comes business, you know, and business interferes with friendships, which has happened numerous times in this, in this, the movement again, that got developed by the industry. I have some really close friends that were part of the very beginning of this that do speak out when the right time comes. Right. But a lot of them are just, you know, a lot of them are weathered by this, by this industry now. Yeah. And I took a shitload of heat when I joined Indiva, right? But when I was living in Indiva with, with these two business suits, fucking shiny shoe motherfuckers that, you know, people were like, oh, you're selling out. You're selling out. Right. Wait a second. Is it selling out? Yes, I am going to get paid quite, quite well. But what else am I supposed to do here? Like if you're not happy with the direction that the ship is going, selling from the sidelines means jack shit. That's not, you're not making a change. Get on the fucking boat and help steer it in the right direction. If you're just bitching from the sidelines, sorry, I don't, I don't fucking got any time for you kind of thing. Get on the fucking boat and, and correct us. So, and help us steer it into the fucking direction that you believe it should be in. And because some of these people are all deep friends of mine, I invite that I would love for them to come together, even though I know some of them can't, because of outside of this, the cannabis community. Yeah. That, that, that weld will never, will never happen. But we need to kind of keep this, these stories, this journey alive. And the only way we can do it is if the elders regurgitate how they understand it. Exactly. There's, there's a lot of elders in here. I talked to Doc Sumack, right? Roddy Heading, right? He's from this area. He wrote one of the first grow guides, grow your own stone. Oh, oh, grow your own stone. That's right. Yeah. Super fucking nice guy. Super fucking motherfucker, right? Still, not in the industry, he's in the hemp and, you know, still, but, you know, I would sit and just listen to him. You know, I wanted to hear his version. From the fifties and the, or the sixties and the seventies. Yeah. Guys, there is nothing like he, he wrote it and grow your own stone. High times was out in the, in the seventies. And some stories got out, but not now today. There's fucking podcasts. There's, there's websites. There's so much out there that we could, you know, fill in all these blanks. And yeah, maybe I am wrong in some of the, the stories because that's just, but this is how I remember it. And please correct me if, if I'm misunderstanding the, I mean, you have the balls to be wrong and to stand up and like, you know, remember something wrong and then take accountability. A lot of people don't even have the balls to do that. And they just like to point and judge. I wish they would stand up too. It's not really my end of things, but Matt, Matt, Matt loves like, like murder shows and murder mysteries and all that type of stuff. And one of the things that they've discovered is one of the absolute worst kinds of testimony is eye witness testimony. Right. Because the memory is so funny and it can, and it can change over time and it can be influenced over time. And you can be convinced and have your memory change. And the other part of it that's important for people to realize is that, you know, when, you know, this might sound a little grandiose or whatever, but if you're involved in any kind of like interesting thing in history, most people don't realize they're involved in it. Right. At the time. Right. Like nobody, we didn't realize when we were all younger messing around with this stuff that people were going to want to know granular details. Right. Of some of these things. Right. You know, and that plays a role too. It's not like we all knew that, hey, we should really document this as we're going. In fact, as you were saying with the underground nature of things, you know, notes were a bust. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. You didn't want to. Pete went opposite and you kept a million pictures. Yeah. I always kept notes and I recorded things. So if I was involved, there was really good notes. If I wasn't involved and it's just, I'm going by what I've seen and what I've heard, then you know what? It's part of, part of law. Like if you want to, you know, you want to ice the goalie kind of thing where you want to figure out how long, how long to you put a witness on the stand. If you're the defense. Yeah. Because you want that person's memory to get foggy. You want that person's memory to maybe be influenced by other things or, you know, remember the gist of the story, but maybe not the details. And like you say, like all these stories we have are little grains. And for the longest time, we were playing in a small sandbox. Yeah. We're on beaches of endless grains of sand where there's so much more out there and there's so many people involved that, you know, the few of us that we're sitting in that little sandbox, we only remember so much. And we're going back to the, for me, the 80s. I started growing pop in the 80s. I talk about that too all the time where it was like, I kind of feel like at least for like America, for a while there, like hippies and the Grateful Dead and that kind of highway. It was the primary path in cannabis. Yeah. Oh yeah. It's not anymore, but for an era there, you know, like hippie circles and groups of friends. And then on top of that, people don't realize that like, you could go meet somebody on dead tour and chat. And you were somewhat anonymous because they didn't know where you lived. Yeah. They didn't know who you were really. They weren't from your hometown. You weren't going to get rated necessarily. And so, you know, people would bring their weed on the, on the tour and stuff. And so like there, there's, you know, now it's like you, as you were saying, like weeds is super highway and like that's just one lane. Yeah. You know, there's a bunch of other lanes now. And with the Grateful Dead thing too, like the, the shakedown street was where the stories, that's where the elders sat and told the stories to the next generation. But there was a lot of us out there. Now I wasn't on dead tour, but you know, obviously lots of good friends, not only would I, when I did my travels up and down the East coast, I didn't just bring the pot. I brought the seed too. Because for me, I like this, this type of cannabis, right? And I, and this seed grows this type of cannabis. Well, crossing international lines or on dead tour, chances of DEA or anybody like that infiltrating, shakedown or something like that. You don't want to travel with fucking large amounts of pot. So when you find somebody that's like minded, that has good pot and has the right vibe or the right stories, you pass that seed along to that person and say, Hey, listen, when we have dead comes through here next year, I'm going to call you up or I'm going to, we're going to find each other, you know, bring me some of this, you know, and you can spread that seed and give me some of your seed. And when you're in Buffalo or something like that, or you're in Orlando, look me up. I'll be around. I'm going to have your seed, right? So we do that not only just for the story, but for the, for the ability for us to share in genetics, but also not, you know, for a safety reason almost, basically to, you know, pass out cuttings. I was, I went through a phase where I was like, I don't want anybody to really have my cuttings and stuff like that. I'm a little worried about it. And we were talking about that with the moms. I had at the end of my mom garden, I was somewhere close to 150 moms. Yeah. That's a lot. Over at least a hundred of them I had for years. And I, and probably 30 of them I've had for decades. Yeah. That I've kept. And I was always like, yeah, you know, and this is something else that I think I sent you in a, in a private message was, you know, when I was doing that, I don't really want to have anybody. I was like, they're going to bastardize it. They're going to fuck it up. It's going to kill the name. Shit like that. Well, then my, that I lost that mom. Well, I didn't give it to anybody. Right. So then I was like, okay, you know what? I got this guy Yoda. I'm going to give him my genetics, you know, and he keeps them. I keep two of every fucking plant. Right. That means, and when I have 130, 150 plants, that means I have 300 moms, not just flowering 300 moms. Yeah. About your numbers and shit like that. You know, yeah, that comes into play. So what I'm starting to do is I would give them out to different people. And I, what I did learn also is never tell, you know, grower A that you gave it to grow a B as well. Right. What's that? Why? Grower B is like, well, you gave it to grow a, so I just killed it. I didn't have space and have time. And then I'm just totally true. Grower A fucking just did the same fucking thing. And now I have that fucking strength. And I lost like, I lost my chemo from 96. Yeah. To that. And I'm just like, and I found some chemo seeds. Yeah. You know, I don't know which ones they are, the UBC or again, I think there's an Ottawa cut. Again, called chemo. Was it the fucking chemo? You know, in our seed fucking catalog, there's a story that the chemo was developed to fight cancer and I think they said Ontario. Yeah. And I was like, well, fuck that story come from. It's written in the hemp nation fucking catalog. So I was just like really like, I did hear about G 13, you know, I heard, you know, there were certain medical strains being grown in California that made it up here. And, you know, and then the whole like M 39, that whole list of the M's and stuff like that. Like there's people out there that know the truth of where these came from. And it could have been like my purple power plant. My purple power plant is not a power plant. Yeah. Right. It's purple power plant because it was a cutting given to me. No guy had no idea what it was. Old time farmer just not fucking this strain. We've been growing for the last fucking 20 years or 10 years. And I grew it out. It grew just like a power plant structure. I was fucking with purple. I don't know what to call it. So I call it a triple P power plant. People like, oh yeah, I love power plants. Well, this isn't power plant. Like at least I'll be honest about it. I just named it this because it fit the description. It was easy for me to remember. Was that the PPP that went around Canada? I don't know. I mean, because there was a PPP that went around that people called like pure power plant, purple power plant. It might have like, I did this. I named that probably 12, at least 12 years ago, probably more, maybe. No, it's long and nice before I was married. So probably 15 years ago. You know? Yeah. And it was, again, at this time, again, I was spreading the wealth. I mean you and my members, all my members at the London Compassion Society have access to all my genetics. We don't pull them back from them, never have. So if they wanted it or they ended up with it, whoever they gave it to, you know, good on them. Luckily, some, I got some strains back that way. I was like, ah, you know, we lost it. Put it on a website. Hey, were you growing this strain? And they say I wasn't, but I gave it to my brother-in-law. I can ask him. He still has it. Get it back to us. That's awesome. You know, the whole thing about keeping our seeds protected and, you know, and like, again, when we get into the seeds here, which we probably should soon, is I want, you know, it's going to piss people off, but I want to see genetics rescued. Yeah. Because some of these people don't have these genetics, you know? Yeah. But as a, as a collector myself, like the hardest thing, it's really easy to spread things out when like they're having their moment in the sun and they're popular and people can make money off them. Yeah. The hard part is like, hey, I'm going to give you this, hold on to it. Keep it in your mom room, even when it's unpopular and it's maybe just headstache for you and nobody else wants it. Right. Because everybody wants it when it's had, has its moment in the sun and it's popular and they can sell it and they can do stuff with it. But it's like, who's going to hold on to it when it's just unpopular and kind of a pain in the ass and taking up space? Right. And so that's the weird thing is everybody wants someone else to do that work. Right. So that it's available to them when they want it. Right. See, I did it. I had to do it a little bit different. Again, because of the amount of clients that we had, I would sit with my staff and say, okay, this is what's in the garden now. This is what's coming next and this is what's after that. And we would have to figure out, okay, well this strain is one of the popular sellers. We want to grow it every other harvest or every third harvest, depending on how many lights we were going to dedicate to it. But we would have to, you know, especially with, you know, I think we have, we keep at least 25 to 30 strains on our menu and we produce all of them. Right. So we would have to predict when that strain we think is going to get down low enough that we never run out of it. So I would have to predict. I had literally almost two years of a list of what I was going to be growing because I had to. So we didn't run out of it on our menu. So I did keep all those strains. And then again, it's not like I'm you, it's not like, okay, we're going to go with that strain. I couldn't just say I'm going to grow a strain. I have to pull out the mom or moms get big enough to take the cuttings off of them and have the cuttings ready for when the time comes to flower room. So I can have the harvest in by this particular date, which is a half from now. So that means in about a year or in six in 14 months, I have to start the taking the cuttings out of the mom room, put them into the veg or, you know, it's actually one of the big problems that we have right now and like how they arrange to like California legal market is that you most people like, you know, the nursery and the cultivation for flower is separate, right? They're separate. They're separate businesses or licenses. And so like a nursery might have a hundred plants, you know, that they have in their, in their collection, but they only pick eight or nine to like have that many moms to offer up that season. Right. Right. And so it's like actually like quite limiting because they're trying to plan it and like you can be like, oh, I want to grow this. Right. But man, like the nurseries that I want, they didn't choose that one. Right. To market this year. So I can't, I can't get enough of them. So therefore it can't go in my garden. So therefore it's not going to hit the menu anywhere. Well, and that was an issue also. Like you're saying with what's, what's the new phase, what's hot on the market right now, we had to keep that into consideration with the center as well. Because they're like, oh, well, you know, the poop breath is, is, is huge right now. Everybody's asking for it. Say, okay, well, you know, let's see if we can find a cutting. Okay. I can get a cutting, but that means it's not going to be on our menu for six months. And is it going to be popular by the time you mom it up? So I'm just like, so for me, it's like, what, what is our staple? What do we need? And I will keep a certain amount of lights available for what's new or what, you know, that's going to be a tester, right? Because we'll grow it out. It's going to take, you know, minimum four months, four to five months to get an, an okay harvest where we can put it out there to the, to our clients. And then they could say, yeah, this is a winner. Then we're like, okay, we're going to throw it in the next rotation because we, we like it. It's new. It's fresh. It's hot. It's going to be another three months until we can have it on the menu. But, and if it's not, you know, we have another one. So it was, it was kind of a, it was a, it was a quite the chess game. It was, it was a huge pain in the ass. I don't miss it at all, honestly. But, you know, it was a, it was a hard way to grow when it's not, you're not grown for the magazines and not grown for the internet. You're grown for medicine and you're grown, and you're growing for, I think we're with 1200 clients or something like that. Luckily, not all of them use us, use us like we would like them to, and I guess in a sense, but supplying that many clients on a regular basis would be close to impossible. Yeah, I bet. Going into, you know, darker markets. Yeah. So, but anyways, so yeah, I get back to the seeds. I know that's what we kind of wanted to do. And, and we're going to talk on and offline. I think about some of this stuff because, you know, you were going to hear names that I have that the original breeders of these strains are definitely going to want. Yeah. And it will get. Yeah, 100%. They're not going to get my seed, but I would like to see if I can resurrect these seeds, if I could save these seeds, they're top on the list. Exactly. They will get any of the seed. If there's any males or females that I have access to, that I will have access to, then the original breeders of these strains get those cuts. They get the males, females. And I would like to do an open pollination just to save the genetics. I know it's going to be a smorgasbord of God knows everything's in there. But if there's a hundred seeds, if there's a thousand seeds, that what they're looking for is in there. And it comes from any of the cuts, any of the, sorry, the plants, male or female that come from it. 100% every breeder gets those. And I'm not in the seed business. I'm not here to sell seeds. I'm not here to sell their strains. I'm here to save their strains. And I know someone will say, well, just send me the original seeds. Well, no, they're my seeds. I paid for them. I want to make sure they're going to who I feel is capable. And because my seeds are old and they weren't stored properly, chances are, you know, when I spoke to some of them already, they're like, yeah, don't worry about the fucking, they're dead. But some of them were like, oh, did you store them properly? And I was like, no, not really. They're like, they're not overly interested anymore. And some of them, as we spoke privately, are willing to send people to come talk to me about getting their genetics back kind of thing. I'm not going to leave these people out. They're the focus for this. But these are seeds that I own the seed. I don't own the strain. And I want to make sure the genetic gets back to who it rightfully belongs to. I mean, the funny part about that is some people might not even be interested in getting them back to me. Because they wouldn't want to ever admit that they needed it. Well, some of them will admit to it and need it. But they're just like, Pete, you know what? Back then, you know, it's nothing compared to what we're producing today. That's like when people offer me my old stuff, I'm the same way. I'm like, well, you know, 15 years ago, I was doing something totally different. I'm really into what I'm doing now. So now go ahead and run with it. And again, I'll give them that offer. I was mentioning that some seed banks are like, oh, we have all the original parents. Yeah. I know some of these guys don't have any of these seed and haven't had for probably a decade or more. And it wasn't even part of their breeding program. As far as I know, it wasn't part of that breeding program. Some of it was. Some of it wasn't. And same thing. I might have 10 seeds. I might have four seeds. Like the chemo, I think I only have like four or five seeds and little tiny seeds kind of thing. So, you know, that doesn't belong to anybody that I know of. And if somebody says, oh, I developed that, that's mine. Fucking hit me up, man. If I get seeds, I'll send you fucking, I'll send you seeds. I don't have an issue with that kind of thing. You know, you have to kind of back it up a little bit. Yeah. You know, a little, you know, these strains, I know who they are. You know, I thought about it too, because when I was starting in Diva and I was like, listen, I'm bringing all my genetics. And I have 15 years of data that I've collected on the medical uses of these strains, right? Yeah. Grown in the method that I grown in. And that helps me or was planned to help me a lot with getting into the legal medical market where we can't advertise that this strain works for this medical condition. But there's kind of a loophole. I believe that if you have testimony from somebody that has the same illness or ailment as you and uses this strain, you know, 80% of the time they go, this is their go to Inica and this is their go to Sativa. We can give you that information. Yeah. We can say it works for your condition. But if I have 15 years of data and I could say, listen, you know, out of the 80 clients that have the same condition as you over the last 10 years, they 80% or 60% of the time they went to this and then 20% they went to this and then 20% they went to this. So it gives them a starting point at least to have a genetic that that works for them. What I'm getting to is these genetics don't belong to me. The plants belong to me, but the genetics don't. So if I bring in a genetic from, you know, if it was from Sency Seed or one of the big Amsterdam companies, I don't give a fuck. Honestly, but if it's one of the, you know, what I call the old, you know, the from the movement in this area in North America, you know, I would like to reach out to that person. I might not ask permission. More or less saying what can I do to, you know, give you a piece kind of thing. So if it is something that, you know, that I'm going to be using my strawberry diesel, right, I'll reach out to strawberry diesel guy and say, listen, you know what, I have to take that I've been growing the strain for 11 years. We're going to grow it in the LP market. You know, you're going to see your strain on the leave of market. What can I give you? Be kind of thing, right? Like if it's a big seller and we're making lots of money off it, sure. The wealth because I'm the one on the boat helping steer the ship. You're, you're part of the, you're one of the paddlers in a sense. You should get paid. I'm not here fucking screw anybody, but I'm also here to not here to, you know, bend over and say, listen, you know, yeah, it's your strain. I won't grow it. Sorry. Like I have it. I'm, I'm using it for medicinal reasons. It's a little bit different. I agree if, you know, I, you know, like what buddy did to Steve in, in Amsterdam where he takes Steve's sweet tooth and, and enters the cannabis cup. Yeah. Yeah. Tell Steve to fuck himself pretty much. Right. Yeah. Co-op this whole strain. Yeah. I mean, seed politics. It's, it's one of those things where it's you with the way seeds work and the way clones and everything else work. It's like you can hoard it. Yeah. Or then once you let it out into the, into the world, it's kind of the honor system from then. Yeah. Yeah. And like I said, I had no problem keeping track of some of the people that gave me their, these genetics, you know, and I would piece them out somehow. There'd be like in these, this case here with the seeds, if I get any plants from these seeds, they 100% get, if they want 100% get whatever they want from it. They won't get all of them. They're not going to get the exclusivity of it. You know, but if they say, well, listen, Pete, you know, I don't really want to see my seed out there being sold on, on a market. Fine. I'm not here to do that. I'm not. I'm here to save the genetics. If they want to do it, great. You know, I think it'd be kind of dumb to hoard stuff like that, especially because we're talking about strains from 15 years ago. Yeah. You know, they, they didn't care that much now, but now they think it's a money thing. Money, you know, is maybe dictating with some and some it's, it's the respect because they deserve so much like tons of fucking respect in this, in this industry because they're from the movement and they kind of got, you know, left on the wayside, whether it be their fault or not their fault, right? Yeah. Like a lot of us tried to get in and just tied our line to the wrong boat and that boat sank or went fucking south like they did with Indiva. You know, I gave fucking my, my name, luckily not my genetics to Indiva. And once they raised their fucking 45 million dollars, they were like, yeah, we don't really need you anymore. Yeah. And fucking kick me off the boat kind of thing. I saw that happen so often. Yeah. So many good people, just so many good people. They deserve so much better. Well, you see in California, California is getting killed right now. Yeah. It's happened in, it's happened basically in almost every legal state. Yeah. My home state, New York, my friends are like, let's get in, let's get in. I'm just like, fuck dude, like New York, New York is fucking huge. It's going to be fucking mass money. Yeah. And you get, you know, you get the, the assholes up in Canada, we had canopy that was going around bullying and pushing around everybody. It was a big one out of the states. I think they might have started in Colorado or California. And they opened up a shop in New York just waiting for the license, but they had enough money. They couldn't sell pot. Surely maybe or. Oh, it's a really common one. Acreage holdings perhaps. Now they're old. One of those big devils. Yeah. I'll try to remember who it was, but I know they had like a flagship in New York, in Manhattan, ready to get a license. And then before New York was even talking about what would you need to get a license? And they went in and opened up shop selling fucking t-shirts and hats, I think. Right? Like I don't know what else they could have sold at that time. I'm going to try to Google at the same time to talk to you guys, but. If we start getting into the politics of how it goes state by state, we'll really get off subject. No, I will. And I know like when I was out in Colorado right after they legalized and back then obviously they couldn't use banks, right? So everybody was getting paid like their CEO that we met with and she helped actually write a lot of the bills for other states because everybody's trying to follow in Colorado in their footsteps kind of thing. And she would get paid in a check after a cash check in place. She was probably making a couple hundred grand a year and going to a check cash in place to cash a check because you can't bring it to a bank. Yeah. Like. No federally insured place. You know, or trying to get paid cash, a couple hundred grand a year in cash and you're a CEO, you're not a fucking hot head. You're fucking, you're brought in for your business mind, not for your cannabis mind. You're kind of thing. So it's still a big issue in America. Oh yeah. Without a doubt. Without a doubt. I mean, that's going to be the biggest thing. Like our biggest LP up here being canopy, which was tweed started as we announced the canopy growth. There was rumor that they were going to think or were thinking about starting their own bank because they had, they were hundreds of millions of dollars if not, you know, half a billion dollars. And other companies like in diva, we're getting kicked out of banks. Yeah. Right. We add, you know, millions of dollars in there and they're like, yeah, you know what? Come and get it. We don't, we won't, I got kicked out of, I've been kicked out of three banks now. She's in Canada. You know, I've been denied mortgages. When I put up three times what the mortgage was for in assets, but because of what I did for a living, even though it was fully legal and it was a publicly traded company, the bank wouldn't touch me. Yeah. Reputational risk kind of shit. So anyways, I know we're getting way up topic. So what do you want to start with? Just wherever you grab. Well, there's going to be, there's going to be stuff that I think is interesting to me. And then there's going to be, be stuff that might be interesting to some. I know this. Okay. So this came up. It's going to be kind of hard. I don't know if you can see the names. Where am I? Kind of hard to see the name. So that's something. Dream Sotica. Oh, cool. Right. So this is a seed that we did in Switzerland. Okay. I think Steve brought it in from this guy. And now this guy's name was started with the J. His name is J. He's a douchebag. I saw he lives on Sunshine Coast now. But I don't think it came from him, but it came through a mutual friend whose name is a color. And it's not the red color. I think that's where this seed came from. I don't know if I brought these back. I didn't bring these back in Switzerland. I think I ended up maybe getting these after Switzerland. I ended up working on a greenhouse farm in the interior. North of Kamloops that the guy that was growing the cream Sotica most likely gave me these beans kind of thing. And they look good. And this might be a strain that could be of interest to some. Sure. Not to the, because I wouldn't, I wouldn't even give it to the guy that would have made these seeds. Yeah, yeah. He didn't give a fuck about them. And I really don't give a fuck about him. Yeah. So, yeah. I'd be into that one. That's cool. Yeah. And again, like I said, we'll figure out a whole bunch of that. So, so now we were talking about Mighty Mike. Right. Yeah. And so these seeds here from. From May 2002. They're a Hindu Kush cross Mighty Mike. Oh, interesting. Being in Southwest in Ontario where we like to be saying, we need to get our stuff in out of the fields. Mid September possible. Right. Yeah. Because of the cold, the frost and stuff like that. We, we were, and this is from Yoda. Who is still, like I mentioned before, somebody I give some of my genetics to hold. Yeah. This is his breeding. Now, his breeding wasn't super specific or anything. He was just like, you know, I got a Mighty Mike. I'm going to cross it with a whole bunch of shit because I want to speed up now crossing with the Kush. The Hindu Kush, which is also a fairly fast strain, faster strain. It was making us, and this is going to two. We didn't have the Kush craze by that time. Yeah. So maybe for a second you could talk about Mighty Mike, because while Matt and I might be real familiar with it. Yeah. Most people, especially in the U S and stuff, it probably predates them. And they probably have maybe heard about it, but don't know very much about why it was popular or why it became such a Canadian thing. Yeah. I think, I think it's basically what I was just saying too is because these strains that were fast, you know, and we didn't want the fucking root of Alice crap. Right. Because it was crap, but the, the fact that, you know, could clone it, you know, with Mighty Mike, it was a very easily cloneable plant because of its structure. But most importantly, for us, it's, we need things that finish quickly. And I wanted to, we would use that in our, I'm going to say breeding, but in our seed making, we were looking for these early, you know, ideally early September. Yeah. Before the thieves get out there, before the police get out there and before the frost comes. So, I mean, as far as the history goes with Mighty Mike, that's, I believe that a little bit more to the experts. Sure. These were just. But that's fine. It got famous basically because it came in, in the season that was appropriate for where you guys are at. Yeah. 100%. 100%. Yeah. So, you know, it's a golden boy, right? So, yeah, see a bunch of things. Golden boy. I have a string called Boris, which was a, and I just saw that too. Like AK-47 golden boy. No, I don't have that string, but I want to find out the lineage on this golden boy. So again, story, I was told, and I ran this by HB about, you know, because it, that worked in at nation, but pretty sure it came through one of his connections. Okay. That's when this whole triple SC name was, was, was attached to it. Yeah. Okay. But it was attached to it coming out of Ontario, not out of Amsterdam. So it was either he was over there and got this seed from the triple SC guys in the, you know, the 80s and the 90s. This was, would have been, when we got it, would have been mid, mid 90s, maybe 96. I have pictures of it. And I'm going to say mid 90s, give it, take a few years kind of thing. So what is it? I don't know. But this, we knew that when we did grow it inside fuck 45 days, you know, it was, it was finishing up. So we, I'd love to see some pictures of it sometime. Yeah. It's not, but then I'm not good pictures. Dang. Yeah. It's fucking strange. Yeah. Really weird strain. It was very fucking, the pistol Lee, the gentleman that was growing it, I think he even has tin foil on the walls. It was going back that far. Awesome. Kind of thing. Yeah. It wasn't phototron years, but it was like the first time of HID lighting being brought into closets. Yeah. Trying to make it as reflective as possible. Yeah. I mean, I was a, was a gutted refrigerator. You know, it was awesome. And lined with tin foil and fluorescent lights. Yeah. Cause we didn't have, and we basically built a phototron in our garage back in the year. Do it. Do it dude. And toast, who was my roommate back then, we were both fucking surfer, skater, guys and he was the first person that I knew that grew under HID, right? The 400 watt in his closet, you know, I lived with those and he was using four inch Rockwell cubes in Tupperware dishes, you know, under a 400. Right. So we got off topic again. But yeah. So I think with the golden boy, that's again where you, we're going to see that name come up in my seed collection because of the speed. Yeah. Whatever I was going to grow it with. So here, like, okay. So we got another block domino. So this is a block domino female. And we had a sweet tooth number three cross blueberry. Male. Oh, that sounds like that almost sounds like what. I can't remember who was talking about it is describing his black or sweet. What was it sweet tooth for some, one of the weird sweet. I had more. It's one of the sweet tooth had black domino inserted in it was like sweet pea and grapefruit blueberry black domino. And it was only for a brief little bit. I don't know if it's 2.2 or. That doesn't sound familiar to me. But again, if you're trying to get into breeder Steve's head, what he was doing, what he was looking for going back to this, this would also probably be a seed that came out in the mid 90s or was made in the mid 90s by us, my handwriting. And back then I was selling SOL seeds in London for Steve. Where you will see that I have very, very, hold on a second. Oh, well. So like, yeah. So that's the sweet was a sweet tooth number four. Yeah. Yeah. Now there's a bunch of seed there. And that's the one that dairy stole from Barney's farm and entered in the cup is the sweet tooth number four. Oh, really? Yeah. I thought it was a three. Really? It was a four. He sells it. He sells it as four. So maybe it was. Yeah. This is where I was saying before. So I got like a vial inside of vial. Which don't know exactly what that means. But this is where, you know, it'd be nice to get people like Steve on these forums. If he can control his temper that because he has a lot of this knowledge of, you know, what he was doing, what he was going after, because he was one of the first, he was the first breeder that I became friends with. He was the guy that was actually breeding for genetics, not for seed production. I mean, he was reading for seeds to sell. But, you know, he was actually putting the time and the energy into. So again, any of these seeds that I get started, he gets first fucking dips. He might come to me and say, well, Pete, my strain, my strain, I want all of it. You're not going to get all of it because I'm going to keep some for myself. Not to sell, not to fucking put it out there. That's his genetics. He can do what he wants. But, you know, I want to, like I said earlier, you keep all your genetics and you're fucking in your back pocket, you fucking lose your pants. You lose that strain kind of thing. That's the funny thing, too, where it's like when it comes to seed breeding, too, it's like people are like, I'm going to breed and I'm going to sell these things. Yeah. But then I still have control or dibs on everything that happens from that point on. I own all the males. You rent the seed for me, kind of. It's almost like a Monsanto type of thing. Yeah. Where you're like, you don't really own any of it. I'm going to let you grow it and smoke it, but it's pretty much mine still, even though you paid me for it. Right. Well, I think that's where it kind of gets fucked up. Yeah. That's kind of what I was pointing out for sure. Okay. So this is something else. Oh, it's going to be, I wish I had better cameras. So staying on the SLO stuff, because I did a lot, you know, again, Steve and I, our friendship goes back quite a long time. And like I said, he was one of the first people that was a breeder kind of thing. He would sell me his seed. I'll go on this way. So this is the, what is that? Can you see it that way? What is it? No. This is Shishkeberry number three. Oh, Shishke three. Interesting. And then Shishke two. And again, in his packaging, because he used these little, little vials. And then I got Shishkeberry first generation. Oh, wow. Right. So now this is where I get confused. I was talking to read about it, which can be a little bit of a sensitive topic. But it was, I just knew there was a yellow and a red line. Yeah. Right. That's as far as my extent went through. So when I was going through these seeds, I was just like, well, this is in Steve's writing. This is in Steve's, well, writing, packaging. And then the Shishkeberry first generation is in my writing. Right. So what's what? Like, did he have three different, I think red actually even tried to explain it to me, but we were talking about a few different things. And again, why we, I think, you know, people like red who has a lot of knowledge in who is really doing what. Yeah. In his versions of it, which I will strongly agree with 98% of the time. But like you say, we, I, I 100% agree with, I shouldn't say that I 98% agree with what I'm saying because it's what I, how I understand it. So, you know, when it comes to these seeds, I know Steve would be like, well, then my seeds don't want them back. They are your seeds. And if anything comes from them, you get 100% of everything, but I'm keeping some for myself because I bought these seeds from you. Yeah. Right. I like the old stuff. I don't grow for the fucking highest THC or a certain turf or, or to sell seeds. Right. I will make sure like, you know, he doesn't want this seed sold. He has the seed come. He's a seed breeder. You don't fucking step on somebody's toes that way. Yeah. They're his genetics. You can have them. But I want to do what I can to save them so I can, so I have them for myself for again, if and when the time comes, there might be a time that I'm like, fuck it. You know what? I'm moving. I'm going to be in fucking, you know, some place in Europe. I'm not going to grow anymore fucking. I'm diluting my seed fucking catalog. Take everything. I don't give a fuck anymore. I'm not at that point yet. Yeah. When that point comes, I'm not going to say, okay, I'm selling my collection. I'm going to say, well, I'm going to say I have certain people's genetics are yours kind of thing. If you don't care, then sure I'll put them out there and I'll fucking spread the spread the wealth 100%. But like I say, I have a sweet tooth. How does this say sweet tooth number one? Oh, it says sweet tooth number one or number two, but there's only like five seeds in a little fucking baggie. Oh, interesting. You know, again, what is that to me? I just want to throw this in there before I forget. Yeah. Like going through like old seed collections. Yeah. Is very much like that. It's like, here's some chicken scratch that only the guy that put it in there could ever decipher. Here's a weird code. God, he gave me this. Oh no, you know, I remember this weird vial, right? And this weird vial with this SK on it. This means this, right? But if you were someone else trying to decipher some, some one of your friends' seed collections, it would almost be impossible. Yeah. Like you pretty much need them. It's almost like hieroglyphics. You would almost need them there to interpret it for you, because if you just got it without any, and I even think, I mean, there was a thing where, you know, Matt, when you and I were talking about how we found out that like, you know, when Neville sold his seed collection to Shanti, he got pissed at him and then just stopped explaining all the codes. Yeah. And then you didn't know what he had. And then you didn't know what he had. Because there was all these weird codes. I was, I think it was Breeder Steve that when I was fucking like 10 years ago or something like that, I go, I got these old seeds of yours. I'm, I haven't stored them properly. And he put me in touch with some guy on the West Coast. And the deal was that he gets to keep and do whatever he wants with the seeds that he recovers. And I just said, well, no, I'm not going to do that. Like that you, I understand because then again, he was a friend of Steve's I would imagine, but it all right for, if I sent him to him, he could have, he could have fucked me. He could have fucked Steve. Sure. So every, every, every embryonic rescue guy I have ever worked with has fucked me. Right. So I'll tell you that and all of them were from the West Coast and there have been a few. So that's what I would say. Concerned. Like, I'm just like, you know, I got this old thing and if it, you're going to pay me a lot of money to rescue this thing. Yeah. And if it doesn't work, I get the money. And if it does work, I get the money and I get the genetics. Yeah. That's the deal. Great deal. It's a great deal for me. The worst case scenario, I make a bunch of money. The best case, whatever you get, I already have it. Right. And I mean, like you said, with the, with the chicken stretch and I've done that, like, because I told the what, I think what the one deal break or what, excuse me, was, is I'm going to send you all the seeds, but they're numbered. There's not. And I did this with my, when I was hoarding my genetics, people were like, Oh, you know, I need cutting. So I say, okay, you're going to get the LCS number six and you can get LCS number 18. And they're like, what is it? They're like, I'll tell you when you harvest the plant. And I know that you're not fucking, because nobody's going to say, well, yeah, I got cuts. I'm going to sell your cuttings. Yeah. But people are like, well, what are they? Like, I don't know, but I know they're good. Well, no, I don't want. Yeah. Right. So I was going to do that. And it was like, no, no, you can't do that. We need to know what the strains are that we're growing, but we're going to try to resurrect or save. And I just said, no, that's not going to work for me. And did that piss off people? Yeah, I'm sure. I piss off a lot of people all the time. I'm really fucking, you know what, I don't give a fuck anymore. Like, you know, I'm doing, I've saved these seeds for fucking 20 some odd years. Right. You're going to get pissed off at me now that I'm not turning them over to you. You know, sorry, but, you know, I would. After that long, you get to be the custodian. Yeah. I don't mind fucking giving them back after they're saved. And they're secured and they're not going to get fucking bastardized and stuff like that. I'm not going to just, you know, let anybody like, there'll be, there'll be conditions of what is what. I mean, and if somebody like the one guy is like, listen, if you're true to your word that you're going to be honest, then if you want me to trust you, then you have to trust me. And I am going to send you my, my golden haze, but I'm not going to tell you it's golden haze. I'm going to tell you it's, you know, it's a code. And then when you're like, yeah, it's resurrected. Okay. Send it back to me. Then, you know, I'm going to know what it is. And if, if it's my strain and I'm like, okay, you can have it. I'll tell you what the fuck it is, but there's going to be certain ones that I can't do. Best of luck. I don't know who the fuck Eric is. So. What is this? So, yeah. So great fruit. So again, like you were saying, we get strapped. So what I started doing with this stuff is I started reaching out to friends. Yeah. Okay. Who's this? So it says great food. Probably sweet tooth. Best of luck. Sorry. I missed you. Eric. Best of luck. Sorry. I missed you. Eric. So this is somebody that probably had bought great fruit seeds for me. Yeah. Fucking growing them in his fucking backyard or something. And he said, well, this is what it could be. So, you know, are they worth keeping? I think 100% because it might be that one sweet tooth fucking plant in there. Yeah. He's been looking for. Yeah. And if you're going to pop a bunch of sweet tooth, you might as well pop that one with them. And it's not up to me because I remember sweet tooth that I grew, but I don't remember the sweet tooth that Steve grew or red group, you know, like they, and when I was talking with, with red about this, I was just like, well, you know, is, is this shishkeberry like I wanted to send him a note. I grew up the shishkeberry and I was just like, it kind of doesn't look like the red or the yellow line. And he's like, send me a fucking dog. I'll tell you which one it is. I fortunately never did it. But though I still have a package to send red to myself. Well, I was talking about red here. And this is when he has the pungent skunk. Yeah. That's the one I want to see that. I want to know what's in that. Yeah. So that when I told red, he, that's the only one he really showed interest in. And he's like, oh, dude, where they probably store is like, no, sorry. He's like, ah, fuck. So same thing, you know, with certain people right now, they're super busy in life. They're super fucking focused on their family and providing and for them and so on. If I have the ability to send these seeds to somebody and say, listen, you know, you're going to do through a teacher of culture, embryo embryo, whatever they call it, salvation. Then we're not see when those plants, if these seeds pop, then I want, you know, a copy of each cutting. And if we're going to breed them, breed them, open breed and send fucking the send red fucking all the shit he wants. Does he still want it? Maybe he's, you know, but maybe at certain times they might just say, ah, fuck it. You know what? That's the Esther years. And now one of one of these old breeders said that to me recently is like, ah, you know what, Pete, like the fucking, we're on the such better things. Like that's old history. Nobody cares about that anymore. Yeah. Well, I do. Right. Because I'm not right. I care a lot about the old sensey stuff. You know. Yeah. Oh, hillbilly. We're hillbilly. So again, rumor has it. I'm going to say now magic carpet by hillbilly. Sam and Creek. His first name is Steve. Okay. I wasn't going to say his name, but. Oh yeah. I thought you were trying to guess it. I'm like, yeah. Hold on. Hold on. You know what? He's public with his name. He's fine. Okay. Well, I don't even know where he's at. Like he's California, right? Oh God. Oh, I think he sounds like he's from Kentucky. But yeah. Okay. Well, I thought he came again. Rumor has it that he was one of the seed providers of the first legal marijuana garden in Canada. Okay. That was in flint flan. Manitoba in that old mine. Right. I forget the name. I don't know why I forget the name of it. The company, but basically it was when health Canada was trying to set up the failure of the matter of the marijuana community. So what they were doing was they had. Oh God. I just had to tip my tongue to the, they were saw growers that got the license. And. And again, this is where people know different. Please pipe in. They were only allowed to sell seeds that were confiscated by the RCMP. Okay. And that's all they could grow. Right. So they knew where the seed was coming from. It wasn't supporting the black market. And the guy that was growing it. Was producing crap. Sitting on his shelf for fucking years. And then all of a sudden the pot started getting better. The guy had, you know, we saw pictures of the gardens. Phenomenal fucking facility. He had tons of money, millions of dollars. He was in the most secure. It was more secure than our fucking national men. You know the way in and one way out. There was two kilometers below the ground. Right. It wasn't like you could just fucking drive a tank through his fucking through his door kind of shit. Right. And supposedly these seeds made it in through a back door. That's why the guy's pot started. Did it revolve around Harriwana? No. I don't even know what the strains were back then. Okay. That was what Schmief Schmuck. That's a good name for it. Was most known for was the Harriwana and Tramwreck. Right. Like he came down. I know he was in the medical scene in California for a little bit and one of our friends. Right. I heard again how I remember hearing that the genetics came from California. This guy called Hillbilly genetics. And we're able to make their way into flint lawn. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. And you know, if it was again, if somebody knows this Steve guy, if he's out there and has a contact to him, you know, please let him know because again, those two strains that I just mentioned, you know, I bought them, they hit strains. If he wants them back, you know, he's more than welcome to whatever fucking seed or plant comes from these genetics. Right. It's about sharing for me this box of seeds I have is for sharing the genetics. Right. So when we get into certain things like the berry berry, right? Yeah. Yeah. Which is these two pictures behind me, my first centerfold in high times. I got lots of these seeds. I love this plant. It's not stable by any stretch of the imagination. It's not bad. But I would say, I mean, it's probably like a probably backcrossed maybe three times, two or three times. It's not bad. Yeah. Again, I wasn't a breeder. I was a seed producer kind of thing. So sometimes I might have a, you know, a little bit of a different intention and therefore I wasn't going crazy like some of the people. I mean, Steve telling me that he, when he chose the male, the, this resinist blueberry male, he was actually smoking male flowers or, or because of the, because it was a resin producing male. Okay. That's right. His famous resin producing blueberry male. Right. And so I, he was like, yeah, I've smoked it. I mean, made sense. Like I don't know what you'd be smoking. Have you, but whatever has resin on it. Sure. You know, that way you're going to get some of the flavor, some of the Terps are going to be in that resin. You know, so maybe that was, was a little bit more than I was doing. I was just saying, wow, this is fucking great pot. Let's fuck. Yeah. I got a male of it. I got a female of it. Let's fucking do that. Because I'm going to grow it again. I'm going to try to find a male that best reproduces, represents the mom. I'm going to cross it back again. Right. What was in the berry berry? No fucking idea. No idea. No idea. No idea. I just, it came for me when I came to me, which a lot of genetics did because we had a seed bank. We were the only ones at the time in Canada. Yeah. We were doing it. Right. This is before Mark was a dark enemy was selling anything. Yeah. So it was a, you know, somebody came in and they don't look, you know, try this stuff. It's awesome. Grow it out. Like, holy fuck. Is that awesome? You know, same with the Boris, right? Boris was another string. No idea where it came from. Again, I didn't really care about the names. Names are the least of my concern. I was, I was worried about what it was to grow it for medicinal. And for, well, for medicinal bag, I wouldn't say bag appeal, but it had a hit. A few criteria is for us, right? Right. We need it to be medicineally useful. Two needed to yield. So we can get people to grow it for us because the deal we made with all of our growers is we get you a legal license to grow a certain amount of plants, certain amount of plants. You keep 50% of the harvest to pay for everything. And the other 50% goes to the center. Yeah. Right. And the client that you're growing for never pays a dime for fucking anything. He gets all the pot for free. And you get a high yielding, you know, great plant that center will take will will will buy all the pot. But half of it comes to a set no cost. Yeah, kind of thing. Right. So it kind of it helps us pay our bills and keep to be a not for profit society. We're not nonprofit, but we're registered as a not for profit society. It was that gold that triangle that I was trying to create even with grow shops, bringing in local grow shops, saying, if you give our medical growers discounts, then we'll send you all our medical growers. Yeah. And, you know, the growers, if you're going to sell just to us, you get a discount from the grow shop. And we're going to pay you fair value and we'll take all the pot. Yeah. Right. So we made and then the client never had to pay for pot. Yeah. So it was it was a way to kind of kind of get everybody what they want and make sure everybody's happy. Because if one person in that triangle wasn't happy, it falls apart. Yep. Right. So make sure that everybody's happy. And again, that's what I'm I try to do all the time. And sometimes people get pissed off at me before, but you know, fuck them kind of thing. Okay. So this says NYPD Boris, but underneath it, it says there's a DMB Philo. So the Philo taxi. Are you familiar with that? I think that's I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing it right. Philo taxi, Philo taxi. Yeah, yeah. Right. Nice to release instead of being two brackets, it has a third bracket. Yep. Right. So theory being you're going to get a third more pot off a plan if it's going to be triple bracket instead of a double bracket kind of thing. So anytime I saw that, I got excited. I was like, Oh, there's a file there. Let's let's save it male female, just so we can use it to cross into some of our genetics to see if we can we can recreate that that and I think it's I don't think we ever were able to honestly. I think it was we were chasing a dream kind of thing because I don't know if it's stress related or what causes it was a trait or if it was stress related or any of that stuff. I don't know what it was. I thought it was a trait, but it was like one in in my experience, like one in 500. Yeah, probably at least one in 500 that you would actually see it. Yeah, kind of thing. It wasn't something that we saw very often. So when I did see it, it was fairly so like I would set these aside. And it just says NYPD Boris, but the DMB was, I don't know if I can say his name. He's not on the thing. He's a super nice guy. Yeah, fuck it. Something millennium bud? No, his name is Dan Miller. He's a fucking. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah, that's a famous strain, though. Dan Miller, bud. It can't be. Yeah, it is. I've heard of it. Upstairs apartment kind of thing. Yeah, no, it's definitely like an old strain list and stuff. That's only where I would have heard of it. Yeah. Okay. Cause this is a local kid here who I just ran into not that long ago. He's in my book actually. And a short story was he was one of the growers for Hemp Nation, not LCS. And he was part of the, what we could say the honor guard, like he was Hemp Nation family. Yeah. And he just, he came with a cutting that on an Evan flow table just produced these big fat massive encrusted colas. Is it so perfect sea of green, perfect for the, you know, the the gorilla back, you know, basement gardens that are all running Evan flow, you know, short sea of green type of plants. Yeah. And so we just started calling it a DMV because we named it after him because he didn't know what it was. It was a cutting that came from him. So when we saw it and I was like, well, that's what we need for our, you know, black market, our gardens that we were trying to get as much out of as little spot as possible kind of thing, doing the sea of green kind of thing, not worrying about plant counts and shit like that. And DMV was, was the strain, right? Even when I was growing, one of my, one of my rooms, which was just a bedroom in one of my apartments, when people came by just told him that was his initials, that's my roommate. They weren't allowed in the rooms. I got, he locks the doors, you know, he's away a lot kind of shit. But the Dan Miller bud was actually a garden, but I told people and he's a super fucking good guy. He, he left the nation a little sour, unfortunately, but hopefully I resurrected that relationship because he was just one of those people that, you know, same thing. If these seeds get reproduced or get saved, he'd be the first one on the phone saying, Hey, dude, it's not the DMV, but it has the DMV in it. So if we do an open popular pollination, there's a chance one of those seeds is going to be your strain. And you can have as much as you want kind of thing. So I put them aside to kind of be, so this is something else that came up when we would, when I sent you that, and I don't know if you can post the, and I can send you a few more, actually, the menu that we had back in the Great Canadian Emporium. So early mid 90s to mid 90s. Okay, which one specifically, because I could put them up here. Yeah. So basically any of the ones, but this one here has, this is how we used to sell the seeds, right? Just a little, well, should say that this is how we sold some of the seeds. And then they all just went into little the grand vials. Yeah, song. But so this here is an Afghani black domino, sensei skunk, right? Nice. So same thing. We were growing the the black domino sensei skunk. We crossed black domino with so much shit, but loved the nub. We really loved the description that sensei put in their catalog. Andrew, our minister of he was our artist. He's the one that actually when you look at all the artwork from Hemnation Emporium days, he's the artist. Yeah, I want to meet that guy. I want to use some of that art like modern times. That is awesome. Yeah, he's shown you the the NYPD, like he did characters of all of us, right? And I didn't have dreads back then, but I had, I'd wear my hair in braided pigtails, I guess, because anytime I went out into the bush and I had to wear my backpack, I had super long hair. So I would braid on each side. So it wouldn't get stuck in the backpack. Yeah. And so he would, he drew a picture of me, you know, with my braids. And it's the release of the NYPD, culture, minister of agriculture, Sunday cannabis talks, stuff like that. But, you know, you'll see, I did find a few of these, these blends. And again, these are F1s. These are, we didn't breed these as much as we wanted to spread the seed. But that scent, I just remember the, that scentsy skunk was huge for us back then, you know. What was it like? It was a, it was like, it was, you know, how the super skunk has that really pungent smell. The skunk one has that big cola. This, this scentsy seemed to have like a little bit of the two where it was, it was, it had the, it had the smell, but it had the, the structure and, but didn't have the weight, didn't have the big fat nugs where the domino did. So the domino, you know, being a really greasy, really more singular, even though we did, I have a picture of a super cropping plant that we did of the domino and the skunk one. How would you describe the smell of your domino cut? It was, it was pretty nasty, very kind of tarry kind of fucking rubber kind of smell. So that more noxious end? Yeah, it was, it wasn't fruity by the least of it. It was pretty fucking, it was pretty tarry kind of shit. It smelled like asphalt kind of stuff. Kind of, so, but it also, you know, when we super cropped it, one plant would give us, fuck, I think the one plant was like three quarters of a pound inside and four feet tall. Right? Off the ground. Yeah, that's, yeah, that's nice. That's pictures of it, but it was super cropped and it probably vaged for two months. Yeah. I was bending and breaking, the skunk one, same thing, you know, we weren't topping, might have topped once, but everything else was just fucking bent down and, and tied down and the super. Would you call that low stress training? Is that like a term for it today? I call it high stress training. Super cropping and LST are totally different. Yeah. So what we were doing is, that's why I call it high stress, because we were breaking, like we were twisting and turning. We weren't bending down. We were breaking the inside herd. Oh, so you're popping. That's super cropping to me is when you break the inside. Yeah. And then it reforms and it makes like a knuckle. Yeah. No, that's different. That's not, I mean, when we did the super cropping article and now super cropping, I'm not going to say take claim to it because it was shown to me by two local growers. Yeah. But when we did the article in high times, before Soma did his super cropping, which was just a reproduction of what my, of what the article about me, I guess would be, it's, you don't want that knuckle. Okay. Knuckle is a weak point, right? It's a strength point, but it's also weak point. What you want is to have a knuckle on top of a knuckle, on top of a knuckle, on top of a knuckle, on top of a knuckle. So it, the, the, the branch doesn't do this, doesn't do this right angle. It does this bend, right? So it's just like, it's a knuckle here, a knuckle. There's a knuckle here, a knuckle here, a knuckle here, a knuckle here, because I'm bending and breaking. And then that plant fucking like flattens out. So just, just so people that don't know, generally super cropping is you're like breaking the inner herd while you're, but you're trying to leave like the outside protective sheets. Like that is unbroken. So you're trying, you're not trying to snap it. So the outside breaks, you're trying to snap it so you get an inner break, but the outside. And then what Matt is saying, low stress training is basically just bending it over and tying it without any kind of breaking. That's why it's low stress. It's just like, you're just, you're just redirecting where the hormones go because of height. Yeah. And you, you know, people that tie, my guy used to tie two by fours to his plant tops. And the two by four would be, you know, six inches off the ground when he was done, because he'd have eight branches tied to it. And the next day be three inches off the ground and the next day be two inches off the ground. And then eventually it's sitting on the ground. Right. That's the low stress. We would still do that at certain times, but the theory that I came up with why this worked was because of this local kid that I met through the guys that showed me the supercropping technique. And when he was born, his art, his leg, he had a, he was grown in a deformity where his legs were crossed inside his mother's womb. And when he was born, he couldn't walk, obviously his legs were fucking buckled up his fucking, his, uh, soles of his feet were pretty much turning upwards. And for the first so many years of his life, every year, six months, whatever they would go in and they would break the bone, straighten it and then go and break the bone and then straighten it and then break the bone again. And it's so brutal. It took his legs from being this kind of bent in. And every time it just broke it open, broke it open, broke it open, straightened, straightened it until you could walk. Well, I don't know if you have a broken bone. Can't break a bone in the same place twice. It's pretty physically impossible, right? Because you get such a calcium buildup on that. So if we could break, if you could break your arm 20 times, you can form your arm to be whatever shape you want it to be. Right? So if you break it, if you have your arm and it's broken, where am I? And then you break it and you set it this way. And then you set it this way and then you set it this way. Your forearm will be bent like that and sturdy. Yeah. You know, we did the same. That's what we're doing with the plant. We were super cropping it. And at the very beginning, you can't twist and turn. You have to just pinch. Yeah. You just go around it because it's so soft tissue and you just slowly pinch and you don't pinch in the same way on the same side and same angle. You rotate. You rotate. Yeah. Until the whole plant is like this. And then the next day, you're going to see that shoot pop up and it's going to be sitting like this, right? Where it's going to be kind of bent up. And then eventually, you know, that's going to be strong enough that you can have your main cola two feet off the ground, four feet or three feet from the center of where your plant is, and not have to use any tomato cages, not have to use anything because that inside herd is one solid. So you know, when you harvest a plant, you cut it down. You can see sometimes that center canal in the middle of your branch. Sure. When we were super cropping, especially towards the end of it, when we were doing it with the big moms, it would take two people, we'd have one guy holding a broomstick and the other guy fucking pushing to hit that snap. And the other come back, we'd snap at the other way and stuff like that, right? Like, when you went to cut that plant down, you couldn't use fucking scissors to cut the fucking branches off. You had to use fucking saw to cut it. It was solid kind of thing. So the block diameter was great for that. The skunk one was great for that. But you know what? It was the block diameter that was like the key to it. And I know I do have pictures of this, the one block diameter plant that this kid grew. And he's a mutual friend of Shawnee kids and mine. We were speaking about him last time. Till, we'll just call him Till for now. But he was an epileptic that didn't leave his house very much. So he was perfect candidate to show this technique to Saturday. If I can train all these plants. And you know, if he wanted to, you know, if he had the focus, he could have created, you know, two pounds off of three plants under one light kind of thing. Yeah. But you could, it's supercropping is designed for people like right now in Canada. We have four plants. Yeah. But if you have a basement that has seven foot ceilings, four plants isn't going to give you very much. Exactly. Yeah. Problem. You know, I know one guy that has one plant per thousand watt. And it covers, you know, probably a five foot by five foot space. I don't think he's growing anymore. But you know, was I don't know if he was supercropping either, but that's what supercropping was intended for. That's why Kyle flew me to Amsterdam and had me talk at the cannabis cup. And that was my topic. My topic was basically supercropping and why and how. That's so wild. Yeah. Really early take on it. Here's your fucking, you call them self pollinating seeds. So the G8, so the golden haze. Okay. That's my strain. And it just says self pollinated, which to me means hermaphrodite. Yeah. Yeah. I would not want to grow this fucking plant. Yeah. I totally grow them. Yeah. I ain't scared of no fucking haze. I'm petrified of them. Right. And then all of this. This was the, uh, the Skipa. So Skipa was hemp nation, honor guard passed away from, uh, from, uh, pancreatic cancer was a client at the center, but he was one of the guys that when we, when I say honor guard, uh, Chris will kind of elaborate on this too. If he ever comes on the show, no matter what I had, no matter where I was, these guys were allowed to come into my store and take over the fuck they want off the shelves behind the counter. They could walk in and say, Pete, I need fucking 500 bucks. You know, it's like, if it's in the till, it's yours. Like it's you, you don't pay for, you want to bong, you come in and you take a bong, you know, you need weed. I give you weed. Yeah. So Skipa was one of the first, if not the first honor guard person. I, I do that at my friend's record store, except that he doesn't like that I do that. I try to just go in and just take what I want. It's pretty cool. Yeah. Well, these guys, there's a few people in this town, uh, that have that anybody from hemp nation family knew whether they took advantage of it or not. If they walked into organic traveler, my head shop, yeah, they take whatever the fuck they want. Like they built me. They are the foundations to, um, to, to what we are. They, they, they laid, they're the ones that kind of laid down to, for us to, to bring, to blaze this path that we're on. So when, again, and this is probably when I was being a little bit more protective of my genetics, but Skipe said, Hey, listen, you know, like I want to, I want to grow your, your, your golden haze in my backyard. All right. He's like, and I have this, uh, blue skunk and I have a male of it. I want to cross it. And it's just like, well, I don't have seeds of the golden haze other than self pollinated. But I said, you know what, if you want to do that, you do it kind of thing. And he gave me, you know, I probably gave me as many seeds as I wanted, but I only have maybe 15 seeds left. And I just call it the, the GHB, which is a unique name. Indeed. We're going back to like the early mid nineties. Sure. Having a moment in the sun then. I didn't in Canada. I was just like, listen, it's golden haze cross with the blue skunk. So I'm calling it GHB. And it's a sativa dominant one. Right. So he had a dominant one. He had a sativa. He liked the sativa one. I named strain the skipper skiva, right? Because his name was skip kind of thing. So same thing, genetics, that mean fuck all the sum will mean fuck all anybody. But if they grow these out, if they find that golden haze, I guarantee you're going to fucking love it just because of what's in it and what it like, how it produces what it does. Because it was that fruity sativa, fast flowering, short fat plant, which you just, you don't, you don't get. I wanted to, I wanted to interject something because anybody, anybody that was growing in the 90s, you just, you just threw out like what I would think is like a very common, you know, like sort of, sort of viewpoint, which is, oh man, this thing self pollinated or it made some seeds. I'm not that interested in these because this will screw up the rest of my stuff because of how it was made. And we've had a sea change in, in, in whether that's acceptable, most people that started growing in the 90s, that was the view was, hermaphrodism was going to introduce something weird, you know? Well, it's the first new seed. I don't want to see that. Yeah. And then, you know, Matt is one of the card carrying original members of gender fluidity is good in the universe. And we should, we should, we should not hate on this form of breeding. Yep. Well, listen, maybe I'm old school, but chicks with dicks, I'm not a big keen of chicks with dicks. Yeah. No, I mean, you need to get with the times, bro. It's very, it's, you know, I want to suck it. It's like, if I go to a party and I want to hang out with chicks, I don't want to fucking be surprised. You just kind of suck it. That's what not so told me anyways. That's what, you know, in all seriousness, you know, Matt, Matt can tell you that he got a lot of pushback and a lot of hate when he started pushing feminized breeding at first. Oh God. Because it was considered to be a cheat code. It was considered to be weakening the gene pool. Ruining, ruining the gene pool. Messing, messing, messing with genetics. It was, it was scandalous behavior. I think my favorite, my favorite was that I was ruining what God intended to be natural. And I'd point out, actually, they started out intersex. So I think I'm putting them back to normal technically. If you want to, you know what I mean? Like, yeah. I didn't see it and any of that, I didn't get that deep. I basically said, you know, when I'm growing, and especially in larger scale, anything over a few plants actually, or with somebody with, especially my clients, that don't know what to look for, where if a banana pops out, then I got CD pot. Yeah, that's a practical. You know, I'm not grown, right? So if I see that seed, and like I said earlier, I believe, and I honestly believe this to be true, that 95% of what we grow are hermit to a certain percentage, to a certain degree. Yeah. Where some might be, you just have to sneeze and it fucking shoots out a banana. Some that you have to fucking go as far as, you know, Chlorial Silver or Gelderic Acid or something that you really have to fucking stress it to produce that flower. I know you said there's different ways and methods now, but in my old school mentality, that's what I always thought. I thought they're producing feminized, not female, feminized seeds. And there's a big difference between an all-female seed pack and a feminized. Feminized seeds means you're not going to get a male. It doesn't say you're not going to get a hermaphrodite. I think it's a very high likely that if you are going to have any hiccups in your garden, especially outdoors, I would never put a feminized seed out outdoor because it's so out of your control or in somebody's garden that is not, you know, on top of everything and knowledgeable, where they can keep a perfect environment and watering schedule and temperature and feed program, all that kind of thing, where any kind of stress, it's going to trigger it sooner to produce seed or produce pollen that's going to give you a self-pollinated plant or, and now for breeding, sure, it's great for breeding. I'll give you that, but not for me. I tried my best over the past 15 years to completely destroy the term feminized. So I always thought it was really, really bad term. I thought female seeds was a bad term. I thought reversed made the most sense because you're reversing the sex on a plant and that's describing the action. But what to expect? You shouldn't be telling people what to expect because there's absolutely every possibility that a plant can be, you know, have female chromosomes and pop up completely looking male. The way the legal market works currently, all the stuff that I've been involved in that does any kind of large-scale seed popping, it's all feminized seed because nobody wants to get out there and be like, I'm going to have somewhere between 30 and 70% be males. So I'm going to have a crew spend weeks out there every day going and hacking down boys before they throw pollen. Anyway, because some of them are going to be fake, I don't want to say fake males, but even with feminized populations, and I've popped some pretty large groups at this point, occasionally you'll get what looks like a true male. Like not a hermaphrodite, not something with male and female flowers, but something that actually looks like a true male plant. They do pop up. But that's what I was getting at too where, and again, this is with lack of knowledge, but where you have, or what I believe to have, a female plant and a male plant. And then when you have a hermaphrodite, because we're dealing with a mother and a father, we're bringing into two chromosomes, there's a very good likelihood that we're going to have both of them carry over. Right? And in cannabis especially, being a seed-bearing plant that will go into the ability to self-pollinate, to continue its life throughout the season or throughout, and again, why I think it's written into Genesis, into the Bible is for this reason, where it's one of those unique plants that if it thinks that, oh shit, there's only females around, we're not going to be able to reproduce, they're going to flip one of those females to produce pollen, and therefore have dropped seed for the following season. That's what I think makes hermaphrodism so hard, and people get all angry about it, where I'm like, okay, so this plant has existed for millions of years. And this was a super successful strategy for it to be able to make seeds at times when something might have happened. Right? And then sometime in the 90s, we were like, oh, we don't want this anymore. So 30 years ago, people were like, you know, let's get away from this thousands of years of selection. And when everybody was growing seeded weed, and you know, all the Thai and all the Colombian and all the Mexican and everything else was fully seeded, who cares if there was hermaphrodites? No, exactly, I think. You already were getting flower full of seed. Yeah. So it really wasn't a joke. I think that's what it came to, is this, you know, for people like myself that started smoking pot in the, depending on memory, it's either the late 70s, 79 or 80, 81, that we had to get the credit card and the fucking album cover out. Yeah, man. And fucking break it all out and fucking, and pull out all that seed. We have a fucking thing I got my seed to start. Everything that I started with was, you know, got a great bag of fucking weed. Didn't know where the fuck came from. Probably was compressed, had seeds in it. I don't want to, I mean, they, I'm going to grow them. They might finish, they might not. I don't know, right? Yeah. But we did breed a lot of fuck, a lot of shit into this plant. We bred CBD out of the fucking plant, pretty much, right? Because we were so focused, we went through the stage of focusing so much on THC, focusing so much on just strong females, right? That we, we lost track of, you know, the beauty of the versatility of this plant. Well, do you know, do you know what CBD was before testing? It was just weed that didn't work. Yeah, yeah, it was hemp. I mean, you know, it wasn't like we were like, oh, that is CBD in it. That's shitty buck. And you're like, oh, this one doesn't get me high. We're going to eliminate this one. This one doesn't work good. It's gone. I have, you know, people ask me like, oh, what was, you know, what's your favorite pot? And I was like, you know what, we used to buy our pot on this, on B15, which was a street in East Rockway, New York. And it was the $5, oh yeah, some of our first catalogs, which is reminding me, I think this strain is on that too. But people ask me like, what is your favorite, some of your favorite pot? And I was like, this brick weed that we got back in like fucking 82, 83, because it got me super high. They get me stoned, got me super high. And I like that, getting that super high. Yeah, so if you go back, go back to that. So this is us, you know, showing people how to germinate seeds, so on. So if you know the go back one, yeah, that one. So if you look on there, I have, you might be able to see, there's a purple star cross, right? Which I wouldn't be surprised if we, because you could see, we did a lot of the skunk one crosses there, right? Again, in the G13, the Willys Wonder, purple star, Hindu Chris. So I have purple star on this, and I also have the skunk one on there. But what you'll also notice is like, when you get into like the S50, S48, the golden boy. The golden boy was something that I crossed a lot of stuff with, because I wanted that quick. I want, I love the purple star, it's short, fast. That silver haze, Mexican sativa. I grew this one of the, this Mexican sativa outdoors here, along the, along the cliffs of Lake Erie. I had this great garden, because you could be, you could hang it on the, on the beach, or on the boat, like be out on the boat. And you couldn't see the garden because the slope was away. It sloped away from the lake. So I grew these big, huge, massive sativas. And I think I had a problem with that, I don't give a fuck. I'm not, you know, I grow for fun. Especially there was on, I get to go to the beach and hang out with chicks and so on. And, and then erosion came and it took down a good section of the garden. And then you'd be cruising down like October into November, down the coast. And you'd look up and there'd be these huge wall of fucking these sativa plants, these Mexican sativa plants that were just starting to flower in like mid-November. Right? Wow. In a finish. But they were these wall of cannabis that exposed my entire garden to, to the world. Anybody on the boat, anything. But, you know, I love, I want that sativa. This is again, chasing that B-15 fucking brickweed. They were, again, they were Mexican, it was all Mexican fucking pot coming up to New York back then. You know? The mystery mix. I love that. Yeah, the mystery mix is just a little bit of God knows what kind of shit. It would be like either we just forgot or like there was extra seeds or, you know, where we put them in packs of six and we had three of these left over, throwing them in the mystery seed, you know? The, so there was a lot of, what is that? So yeah, so these will get to our limited supplies kind of stuff, right? So we tried to do, like we tried to make this a seed company that sold, again, it's hard. We sold seeds. We didn't sell genetics, right? We were trying to show you how to grow. And again, when we came in with overgrow the government, right? So like, yeah, so Willys. Any back out. There we go. Zippity do. So Zippity is another Skiper strain. The bongo, which is another strain that kind of came out. But I thought, is that the menu that has the Humboldt County Indica, Skunk 1, Northern Lights 5, by Humboldt County Indica? Now again, what's Humboldt County Indica? Some guy fucking, you know, was out in Humboldt and fucking grabbed a bag of fucking crazy Indica pot and brought back to sea. Maybe, you know, was, you're from that area. Did you ever hear somebody say, oh, this is a Humboldt County Indica? That's. Oh, I mean, dude, when I, I think I may have mentioned it on the previous show or something, but like on Dead Tour, one of the most common things you'd ever hear was what kind of weed is this? And they'd be like, oh, it's Humboldt County outdoor organic nugs. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It was kind of, it was like, it was like one of those catch phrases, right? Like, oh, it's that, it's that Humboldt County Indica. It's that Humboldt County outdoor. It's that good, good. It's that what you want. You know, and who knows if it was, but it was just like that was the, that was the, if you weren't from California, that was the famous place that good weed came from. Right. You know, that cartoon guy there, the marching seed, that was the overgrow the government. Yeah. I want, I want to borrow this from this artist. I want to talk to him, see if he'll let us use it. And this is awesome. Yeah. Because he's like, like I said, he's, I don't even think I sent you all of them because I'm not sure exactly which ones Chris sent me. But like I said, a lot of them that he sent me were like, there's some of the purple star stuff, black diamond stuff. That's my dog. Yeah. I'll have to send you some more because there's tons of stuff that he sent me. That I think you have a lot of the stuff there. It is pretty cool with the seed, the angry seed with the army and the bong. And he's charging, you know, it's a good cannabis image. So I just sent you something else on signal. I don't know if you can get it, but it has a again has some more of our our version of why have nation was formed. Okay. Basically what it was is I think we kind of, you know, back in the Reagan days, we had, oh no, back into that Nixon coin that wore on drugs. Right. And they saw cannabis as a fucking schedule one fucking same as heroin cocaine drug. Right. It was it was it was more like weed was people that used weed didn't vote for Nixon. Right. People that used weed were minorities and anti-war protesters and Dems and groups that they had issues with at the time. Right. So it was a useful club and that they could use it to attack groups that didn't affect them. Well, pretty much. With with the the war on drugs, you know, we took it as, you know, a war against us. Right. Us versus them. So we formed Hent Nation. Hent Nation was formed and built in a regiment that was militant in a sense. Right. So the marching seed, right. The one artwork I just sent you is HB Post Dreads in a tank, you know, that has a bong as its cannon kind of thing. Yeah. And it's because we were there to fight the battle. Right. So I feel that way. I mean, I think that that, well, one of the things I almost thought about mentioning it was that, you know, because because you're a citizen of both places. Yeah. Right. You've been able to move back and forth. Right. Where a lot of us get trapped on one side of the other. Fighting the battle. You know, you get wrapped up in something and they're like, Oh no, you can't come back here anymore. Not you. No. You know, you stay. Oh yeah. So that's one there. So seeing with the cannon, right, like we formed, like I was minister, Oh, it shows they are me on the left, too, as minister of agriculture. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, yeah. Yeah. But I just went tanked off and shit like that. But so I was minister of agriculture and on Sundays, I would have the little grow, grow talks, grow seminars kind of thing. And we would, you know, with the middle panel there, we'd show you, you know, how to set up a little garden in your closet, stuff like that. Right. So yeah, Sundays from one till five. Yeah. And it was the tank. Yeah. And that's the tank. And that's us behind them. Right. Like, so he, because Chris was a hen, you can see the bond has the water in the whole fucking bit. That's so funny. You know, and it that that's where I say, like the coin overgrow the government came from and there will be more artwork that will actually show it. What the hell was Andrew's thing? So he was like minister of defense. That was his thing. Right. So we had minister of knowledge, which is Sarah and she took care of the library in the museum. And then we had minister of labor, which is Billy. He took care of the retail store, minister of agriculture. I took care of the seeds and minister of defense. And that was Andrew who was quite angry. He was the angriest of us all. The way that the government was treating us kind of thing. And because of his super fucking talent, he put it to to drawings. And if you walked into Hemp Nation back in the day, one, we had the Hemp Nation flag that's there, right? The pot leaf, the green pot leaf, right? In the in the red, red bars. But then that was probably like 20 feet by 40 feet in our front window, right? So we like, I got you getting back to it. We were fighting the war on drugs and we formed the nation. And Chris, Chris didn't have a ministry. He was a grand cola. He was, he was the head. He was the fucking the one that told us kind of what we were doing. And how to not give you how to do it. But why do you want it to see that? Yeah, you know, so getting back to seeds, because I know we're getting pretty long on our time. I found my chemo seeds. Oh, awesome. And now they're in this little fucking container. And it's just written chemo. And there's there's how many seeds? There's like five seeds and they're little tiny fucking seeds. Yeah, which I think is the UBC because the the Ottawa cut, which, you know, I thought the chemo came from, I believe 100%. I was wrong or we were wrong when we thought that wasn't really chemo, but it was a chemo that we knew. Yeah. And it was better than the chemo. Like, man, it was a fucking crazy, strong, fat, nasty fucking plant nug, where the UBC chemo was very quaint and pink and floral. Like it was it didn't have that same rusty fucking greasy smell. Yeah. But that's a good way to describe something rusty. Yeah. Rusty, right? It didn't know. Like it was like it was like, I don't even know. It's like you would get hit with a fucking metal pipe kind of high. It was fucking crazy, strong kind of stuff. So now this is the other thing. You guys know the history on gelato, right? Yeah. Okay. I came across seeds that I came in, but I'm pretty sure and it's hard. You won't be able to see it. I don't think, but I swear it says gelato. Now these seeds are from the 90s. This seed pack box was from the 90s, gelato. They wouldn't be related, you know, probably just a similar name. Yeah. If it again, this is where I was kind of getting at before where why is it called gelato? Well, a guy grew a fucking plant, a seed, smoked it. Fuck, it tastes like gelato. Yeah. I'm going to call it the gelato. Yeah. Right. So maybe that's what it is. I don't know, but again, where did gelato come from? How was it made? Shit like that. Go through quickly again, the Nebula. Oh yeah. Yeah, that's cool. Because I really like Luke and him and I can get along quite well. I probably get along best with Luke out of all the seed people there. Aryan, whose name I don't even know if I'm pronouncing properly because I'm called Arjun. But I always call him Aryan. He's never corrected me. I think that's right. Aryan. Yeah, Aryan. My New York accent doesn't let me say certain words, certain ways. Can't say cauliflower. Reason. I really like him. I really like Luke as a person. So I love his genetics. I've heard that a lot too about him that people don't really do like him. And then the homegrown fantasies, the blue haze. That's cool. Yeah. So now, so with the blue haze here, these seeds in here are not the seeds from the pack. Gotcha. These seeds in this pack are from when we grew out the blue haze and we picked a male and a female and we used the male to pollinate my golden haze that we said before the skipper. Well, we kept, we chose one of the females and bred our own blue haze. Yeah. So it's not going to be the exact, it's not their seed, but it's a seed that we use to make their seed. So. Gotcha. Being maybe not an older population where we used all the males and all the females, we did choose a female. Sorry, we choose, we put more thought into the male than we did the female. We chose the best female, but we were looking for that male that I would want to cross with the golden or skip one and cross with the golden haze. Sure. And then we get into like, oh, that's a new two. So the golden pack is being skunked one from Sensi. Again, it's going to be going back to that age. And then we, on that last catalog, you'll see that we carried a skunk one. So these are one seeds that I made using the skunk one seeds from Amsterdam. Again, breeding for seed production, not for genetic. Sure. And then we did the pure skunk. Okay. Oh, the pure from Flying Dutchman. Yeah. So same thing. So did it, did it do what we wanted? Because I keep calling him Eddie. I don't know who's Flying Dutchman. Eddie. It is Eddie. Okay. Yeah, 100%. He was, again, wanted from what I'm told, wanted the original skunk holders, let's say. Sellers over there. Yeah. So he was wanting to have like, let's say the oldest lineage in Amsterdam for the skunk one. I was hanging out with one of his staff in 90, let's speak to, I think it was 99. It was 99 that I was hanging out with Chick again. And I know that word jiggaloo came up in some sort of post someplace, right? That Karen from the Amsterdam hired me as a jiggaloo. Yeah, something about that. Right. And it's true. I mean, I fucking, Camere has pictures of me wearing a pink fucking thong. What a badass. Yeah. Well, I mean, I fucking, I was working with and I was like, she's like, you're paying for me to be here. I kind of know why because the years before I would go around and fucking pick up all the fucking cutest fucking pot girls from usually all the booths, other seat companies. Hence why Tony from SAG probably doesn't like me very much if he even remembers this, but but she sold all female apparel because she had Sativa sisters, bed and breakfast in Vancouver. Right. So it was animus related Airbnb for before their Airbnb's and she had the Amsterdam seed company. So I was like, well, I can't wear any of the shirts or anything. I was like, fuck it. You know what? I'll wear a pink thong under my pants. Right. I wasn't walking around and fucking the cup with a pink thong. And, you know, when it came time for photos, you know, I'd hike the thong up a little bit and pull my pants out a little bit so you could see it. And it's gotta be a little bit sexy. Yeah. Listen, the girls like to do whatever works. You know, I said, oh, fuck yeah, work, dude. I was getting fucking God knows everything. Lucky I didn't come back with something more than seeds from that trip. But, you know, oh, just talking about, come here. I just found a calisar. Right. So again, one of the, like I used to sell his seed for him as well. I don't think I did much. This is totally random, but I saw earlier on your seed catalog that you were offering that you guys, it looks like you guys did like some like early pearl and some other like reproductions of those. Do you have any of that stuff left? I didn't see any of that so far in my runnings. I did find, like maybe we were talking about the green spirit. Yeah. Right. So I found that we did a blueberry green spirit kind of seed back then. Green spirit was Big Bud Skunk One, Matt. Is that what it was? Yeah. I think so. I think you're right. Yeah. It sounds familiar. Big Bud Skunk One, I think. I think it was based, I think it was that Big Skunk that Neville had and then it went, and then I think you were talking about it earlier. I think Big Skunk turned into Sensi Skunk. Yes. And then I think Sensi, and then it needed another rebranding. And so it became green spirit, you know? Right. And I knew the rebranding part of it where the name came from. But, you know, again, names are names to a certain degree. But the early girl, early pearl, anything that said early in it, we liked. We wanted. Sure. And so when people were coming back, if we knew people were going to Amsterdam, we're like, dude, pick up the early pearl, pick up the early girl, pick up fucking anything that they say finishes in, you know, under 50 or 50, 55 days kind of thing. We need that for our outdoor, right? We need for our indoor too because we wanted, we didn't want to fucking grow out. 14 week fucking strains. But for me, hence the why you'll see that, you know, the Mexican sativas and all these other fucked up strains that you just can't grow. People don't grow, unfortunately, and stopped growing. Unfortunately, like we've got, we've kind of bred the sativas out of what we're, you know, now we're kicking ourselves in the ass saying, well, we need to start, you know, bringing them back in because you people want to get high. You don't want to get stoned. There's not, you know, there's a, there's a lot of people. Even today, there's famous people that are like, they have a hard cut off at nine, nine or 10 weeks is like the upper limit of how long most people will let their strain go. Right. Even 12 is rare for most people. Like you tell someone it takes 12 weeks, they're not interested. And then there's some people will take it to 12, no matter what. No matter, yeah, no matter what. People have their sweet spots. Yeah, they do. Oh, that's something else. So, again, another fucking because. Yeah. Oh, there you go. There you go. Some of the early sensey star kind of stuff, right? Again, unopened. And you know what's funny about that is, is that's one of the things that it got released, I think in 95 or 96. Yeah. And Luke will still not reveal what he, what made it. Yeah. Not really? No. Nope. Won't say a word. Won't say a word. Even though, even though it was 27 years ago or something like that or 28 years ago, and it's like so ancient at this point, he still won't be, I took this and this and made sensey stuff. Nobody can possibly remake it either. I'm going to try, I'll try. I'll send him a picture of that and make sure I still have his number. And I'm going to ask him, you know, what he made. Now, it'd be cool. He asked me not to reveal it. I'm not going to reveal it. Yeah, of course. But I would like, no, I never even thought about it. I'm just like, fuck, I like his fucking, his eye. I like what he's looking for. I love his sidekick. Oh, I mean, I'm not trying to like throw him under the bus or anything. Like, I like Simon from Sirius Seeds, but he's never revealed what AK-47 or Kali Mist has in it either. Yeah. And those things are just as old. It's like, come on, dude, it's been almost three decades. Just tell us what, it's not like, I can get how in the mid 90s, they were like, I'm not going to tell you what's in the secret sauce. Because I don't want someone to steal it. But now it's been so long. Good luck finding the parents anyway. Good luck finding the ingredients to make the sauce. No, there's no way. Just come on now. But what it probably comes down to is they just don't want to admit who they got it from. Who got Josh or what? Or just the fact that like, oh, this came from Neville and this came from this person or this came from this. Like they don't, they just don't want to say. Well, let's see, I got some of this Bella Donna too. Yeah, that's cool. Oh, yeah, look at that. Good score. I mean, it's something, again, what they are. And I thought that I've sent that to Red because I didn't even know we made them. Fast beer. Oh, that's cool. Right? Oh, that is cool. These, this is what we, we won the, well, we didn't win the cognitive game in the second or third with it or something like that. Placed. Yeah, we placed it like that. And it was fucking outdoor we placed with. That's pretty cool. Right. And it wasn't because the pot was that good. I think it's because I was a fucking jiggler slot that way. And it was honor the goddess here. And I, this is my story. Why I say Steve stole my medal is because, and I hope he sees this and he's going to bitch at me. I don't give a fuck. He's going to laugh at it too, because he's good. They, they know it's true. We grew out the, uh, in the outdoor field. We grew out all those old nevel strains, again, going by the story of being told. The orcaga was a very large part of it. Because it had the biggest, uh, probably history and appeal. But then there was the fast fatty, the fast spear and the nightingale. That were these really tall gangly fucking, uh, sativas. Well, I like sativas. I was in the field every day working. I wanted to smoke sativas. I didn't want to get stoned. I couldn't afford to get stoned. Wanted to get high. So when, um, when it came time to enter the cup, all those guys said nothing. They want nothing to do with the fast spear. They wouldn't smoke it. Didn't get them high. I didn't want to smoke. I didn't smoke the orcaga because it got me too stoned. I would smoke the sativa and they're like, yeah, dude, this doesn't fucking, it's garbage, garbage. If you want to take it, take it, but, you know, so I took it because I wanted it. Yeah. I also knew that it was honor the goddess the girls, you know, Hilary was part of the, uh, the, one of the judges, one of her sidekicks. I have to get her name. Beautiful little blonde girl was, um, was, uh, was also asked to be a judge. You know, and I knew that's what they're after. It was organically grown outdoor. So full sun, organically grown sativa. That's panty remover. You know, so I, we, we won now. Did we win because it was best pot? No, we won because there was fucking these Canadians were dumb enough to fucking fly kilos of cannabis in their backpacks into fucking Amsterdam. We didn't have a coffee shop to sell it out of, right? So we had to sell stickers for 40 guilders and you got a free eighth of pot. Yeah. And it was a way like we were getting in trouble because you can't sell pot at the cannabis cup. Right? It was wherever it was being held. I forget what it's called, but, um, you know, so we were finding, you know, by a sticker, we sold these one hitters at Shockwave glass made for us. And, and, um, and it was, uh, it was, um, a type of pot that I knew was going to fucking be loved by the judges and the story. And so I played up all that. And that's, I think, why we won the cup. It had nothing to do really so much with the big and great pot. You know, it didn't, but it got the girls dancing. Got the girls, and that's, that's what was selling the kind of thing. So, um, so, yeah, we talked about Simon. So I kept his chronic, right? Because Simon, when I, when I was saying early, I did a little, I was invited to talk at the cannabis cup about Canadian cultivation. It was mainly supercropping. And, um, I don't know even what Simon was talking about, but him and I shared, shared a stage and, um, and I think Steve was invited, uh, when he was at the cup. So they asked him to speak as well. And, um, it's when I picked up the Russian because it was the AK-47 was this huge deal, but he kept raving about the Russian. And it was fairly new. And this is, it might have been a few years old, I'm not sure when it came out, but I believe it came out in like the mid, late 90s. And this would have been 99. Yeah. And, uh, he ranked and raved about it so much that, uh, we brought back seed. And. Are you talking about the white Russian? Yeah. Yeah. And I still grow it. And I still love it. It's, it was one of our, it's one of our best sellers at the center. You have an old white Russian cut? Yeah, dude. And I, I think it's the fucking, the bomb fucking. White Russian is a AK-47 is my white window. It's a, it's a good line. Dude, it's so, I mean, the one thing I'll say about Simon is that, you know, he basically sold the same six strains for like 20 years or something. And, uh, I think the chronic is terrible. But the bubble gum and the AK-47 and the Kali mist and the white Russian are all real in further era. They're all really nice. Do you know, uh, the triple X strain? I, I mean, I know of it, but I've never had any experience. Where is it from? Because I always thought it was from Simon because he has his triple X in the fucking. In the logo. Logo. Right. Yeah. I don't know where that came from. Triple X for. I don't, I don't have any, I don't have any, I don't have any like tidbits on that one or whatever. But I can say that, that his, his AK-47 and his Kali mist and white Russian in the nineties, they were phenomenal pot in that era. Yeah. And they were winning. They were really, they were really, he had really good strains. The, um, again. Not so is your phone going to die? It is. But yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to be here until it just, it's, I'm going to go through. I don't have a few more because you don't care about butchers beaver. I don't know what it is, but it's from the state because it has a Marlboro fucking symbol on it. Um, it says Nevada city, California. Latitude. So I don't, I've never even heard of Nevada city. No, I don't know. Right. Did we just lose him because of his phone? Yeah, yeah, his phone. He's all right. All right. So then the other things that we get to is, um, oh, we were talking about, uh, with, uh, SOL, this is like, this is his plum bud. The plum bud. Yeah, I remember you mentioning that. Yeah. Again, I'm not sure, um, what it is. I have my speculation, but after certain conversations, it would be something that Steve or Red might be able to, um, explain more. I have what I thought it was, and I just thought it was a, a Fino of a certain cross that, that Steve did that, you know, where the sweet tooth came from. Um, I'm not sure. And then this one's called Blonde Bastard. Yeah, I remember you talking about that one. Again, it says, uh, STB M3, which is a strawberry blonde that we had, um, in Switzerland, and I thought it was crossed with the, it's whatever, the, the mail from the, uh, Louis, which, um, I think this was, Sweet tooth. Yeah, I think this was with, and that's what I think the SB stands for. So I think it's the sweet tooth crossed with the strawberry, strawberry blonde. And it says SB, STB, so sweet tooth. Sweet tooth, Blonde. Yeah, Blonde or back cross, but it has the M3. And maybe, maybe I can ask Red, he might know. Because that might, right. So it might be, uh, because if I remember correctly, Steve had a, a sweet tooth mail, I think he had, again, this would be better for Steve, for Steve or for Red. But they just stuck it in the corner behind a fan and fucking hit it. And it just flooded the whole room. And, and, um, that's where, you know, they made the Louis and they made a few other strings or something separate. And then stick with his stuff is, uh, the big funk and the sweet tooth number four. These are mailed from him because they're actually in, uh, the core class, how he used to mail us before. And then the last, but not least, is the, uh, blueberry. Now, very cool. Where these, these are coming from that same era, just judging by what they're packaged in. Yeah. So judging by the, uh, big funk, right, which is, which is, uh, spice of life, early genetics, um, what blueberry was coming through then and were those, how closely DJ was working with those guys at that time. I would imagine this is probably from that era, judging by, you know, it's, um, judging by sweet tooth number four being a part of that era. They all came in the same envelope from the same era kind of thing. So it's not, I don't know if it's, uh, the 93, you know, but the 93, like I, I just keep it as a, um, as a mom kind of thing. Yeah, dude. I think it would be cool to do an open pollination with that for the 93, his mom cut in there. And yeah, like I have some of his like f5 stuff, some of the stuff he released last year, the year before. Yeah. He doesn't even touch that anymore. It's, it's, that was someone else doing it all. Yeah. I understand that too. I understand that, uh, who was doing it, but you know, the fact that the, uh, you know, that what's in it, the thing is, you know, do they breed, have they bred out what DJ was looking for? Because now they're breeding for what they're looking for. It's, it's just, what I'll say is like after going and spending tens of thousands of dollars on blueberry and short stuff and hunting a very specific, I wanted a blueberry plant that looked like blueberry purple that smelled like blueberry jam, you know, just the whole and I, it didn't find that in anything directly from DJ Short. I found that from hybrids of DJ Short stuff are people that worked his lines further that weren't him and weren't his son. But I found it, and I did find it eventually in other stuff that had his work in it. It was like, you couldn't find it without his work in it. I don't think it was an important part. I think you would like my B93. My B93 doesn't go blue, doesn't go purple, but it has that pint of blueberry, not that fake blueberry smell, but the blueberry really rich fucking blueberry smell. And again, it comes from that era which that seed, I wouldn't be surprised if I had a few of those seeds. So I would, maybe those seeds are from that, that early 90s kind of thing. But that's it for what I kind of pulled out for you guys, except for, no, I did a sweet tooth blueberry, a berry, berry cross because I really liked that berry. That's awesome. I'm not going to get into all the other stuff because a lot of the stuff probably won't really, overly interest anybody, but it'll give you an idea of what my goals were back then. Yeah, my phone, my thing's going to die too, unfortunately. Bye. Want to sit at the table with the syndicate? Check out our Patreon and our link tree or description below. Our merch site is officially live. We have all sorts of shirts, hoodies and goodies to sort you out and shipping is super fast and most importantly, the quality is top notch. I've been saving old designs for years for this purpose so please check it out, syndicategear.com. We also have an underground syndicate discord where we get together and solve old strain history together daily. 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