 I don't know, yeah. The center is okay. I have your water if you need it. I don't know how around, but are we okay? Yeah. So I am Mary Sutton. I'm the Education Director in which I work. Right? But this is actually what I do. I apply theater in multiple contexts. To give you a little story about that when I said I was hired to come and redo the education department at the alley and I said we're changing the name to apply theater at the alley and my boss I answered to the managing director not to the artistic director. My boss said no one knows what that is. In fact he did not know what that is and so we added a tagline so that everybody could go oh that means that means this, that means education and community engagement. But I didn't want to back down from that. And so we just kept it slowly kept it slowly kept it slowly kept it and now board members know what it is everybody is beginning to accept it and then when they did the new mission and core values of which nobody was involved to give you an idea of this institution they had a core value of community engagement which blah blah blah blah blah and then the last one was applied theater which means to my boss who defined this. Integrating drama education community drama in education community or therapeutic programs, right? Like he finally got it. I tell you that yes I come from the alley, we have not heard we had a flood, we had a hurricane and then we had another hurricane which was the retirement of Greg Boyd so we are now rudderless in terms of artistic decisions but that is an opportunity for the organization to remake itself and I see that as a new beginning for what I do for the organization I think of myself as the entrepreneurial part of the organization when I started to define it that way people started to go oh! and I took it when I was hired as a mandate to create whatever I wanted to create and I think of myself as a little start-up organization everything that we do is a start-up and in that context that's how I sort of function now we are going to create a framework or we're going to start to create something that looks like that with what we do and when I said I was going to do this I had no idea that as I ruminated on it that it was a bigger challenge than I had sort of thought I mean I thought it was a big challenge but then I started to really ruminate it I think for the last two weeks I am a person who needs contemplation time and I have a job in which I get none so I was carving out time on the weekends and everything and how do we do this so I am presenting to you something that I want you to think of as very boots on the ground it is not the theory it is not I've tried not to use lingo I've tried to be very I come from a family of engineers I've tried to be very down on the ground with where we want to go with this whole discussion and that 45 minutes of it is you guys helping me figure out how we build a collective framework so I've included some cool pictures we had the alley about three years ago we started working with a slam poet in Houston and brought slam poetry we were already doing slam poetry with kids and someone called me and said can you do a big slam poetry adult slam poet spectacle at the alley and they had never done it again I am giving you context and everybody went oh where do we put it how do we do this right and I'm like we'll do it we'll take care of it and then you just come to see it this Saturday will be our fourth slam poetry we have kids slam poetry yesterday teens and then we'll have the adult slam tonight and we bring them in from all over the country and it was a game changer for our theater we moved it to the main stage two years ago but we found that the main stage was too big so we moved it back to our so this was a big just diverse move guys for the alley theater we also have done a lot of work with VSA this is our collective that we're working with right and and then we do we have we did the telling project has anybody heard of the telling project it's a group they were out of Boston and they come in and they work with vets in your community they help them write their stories and then they present them again my theater was like what are you you're going to bring that and they're going to stand and we have sort of an event space that we use as a third space because we're usually full on our main stage our black box so we do this in an event space and vets come and they tell their stories with a couple they were both vets and they were talking about how they met so these are just some of the things that I've had to I've had to create because they did not have these things in the last five years I just want to draw your attention to the little girl up there she's five we worked with a genetics department in Herman Memorial Houston if you don't know it's like Andy Anderson is there we have 26 hospitals in 15 I mean blocks it's a huge it's a huge medical city anyway she is drawing a picture of her brother who died of the same genetic disease that she has so that was one of the programs and this is an online resource that we put out to schools when we do our character education series so here's our what we're going to be doing and so I say that we want to stay down on the ground when we're talking about criteria of how our work fits together I want us to think metacognitively and in the middle I want to leave the theory to the side and the reason I want to do that is when I started to think about doing this session it was so large to try to pin it down and I'm sure you probably have been through this process with it was so large and I kept hoping that they would give me another person to work with so that I could have someone to bounce ideas off of and finally I think two days before I flew here I brought in my executive manager and I said you got to help me range up with this because I can't separate the individual work that I have done from the idea of where I'm going so I've thrown that out and I am actually going to tell you a story about myself and it's not so that you I want you to know me that's great that's warm and fuzzy but I've had a journey and it's been a long one I started doing this work in New York City in the mid-80s and some of you might recognize yourself in my journey so I just want to encapsulate sort of where I'm going with this in little nuggets that are personal to me and then hopefully we can extrapolate I feel like sometimes that I'm going out on a limb with this but I thought about it last night after I listened to Carmen and I sat there and I watched the group and I had this amazing moment I think the first time I was in a group of people that were doing this kind of work and we didn't call it EDI, we didn't call it community engagement, those labels weren't there they weren't there until maybe 10, 20, 10, 15 years ago and I realized that I had not seen a group of community engagement practitioners there's a lot of names you can call us there in 1991 Alternate Roots in Atlanta, Georgia had a group a convening of people who were trying to bridge the aesthetics of the art world to the aesthetics of the community and so I went home last I mean I'm sick as you guys can notice and I went to my Plaza Hotel and I changed the presentation a little bit based on what she said and I realized that I can't I have to tell my own story and in that there's maybe some co-hangers we can hang on to hang on some stuff and then hopefully you guys will have your own stories when we're going to do a process together that you will start to cogitate on I'm going to pause this here that's this land poetry we'll just leave that out for a second so I realized when I went I said okay what do all my projects if we're going to have a framework we have to in a common language happen everybody talks about this work differently and they have different words for it and different language for it and us older folk have a whole generation of language around it I sometimes listen to the new language and I have to go what does that mean that's a good way of saying that and then I go and then I'll go is that really what you're talking about so so anyway I was listing all of my projects going what are they having common well I've got to figure out who I'm working with and I've got how much time do I have and how much funding do I have and then I said what about that other projects that I did so I started doing cultural community animation I was graduated from NYU I'll give you the five minute overview trying to be an actress in New York NYU fabulous program and I got sick very sick ended up on a cancer ward at Roosevelt Hospital and totally changed my perspective of my work now mind you I wasn't a Broadway type I had been exposed to downtown theater and that was where my heart lived right so I was already in an experimental place and I graduated from the experimental theater at NYU so I was in that place right so when I got out my first piece that I made was we had a little company we stood on the corner of 9th Street and 1st Avenue next to the Asian fruit stand because he was the only one that would let us plug all the camera work this is like mid-80s right and we interviewed people who walked by what they thought God was and then we interspersed those interviews and we did two days of them and I still have them and they are amazing and we interspersed that into a piece that we made for a gallery didn't it right so I realized last night that was my first community engagement also my first working with virtual but that was in the 80s right and then I went to the ART in that program was a director in the ART institute blah blah blah blah blah and it was so hierarchical it's like this is high training this is low training and this is how we do it and our work is important work and you know what it is some of it is it wasn't diverse it was highly skilled beautiful work right and then when I got out I was so tired and so exhausted I a friend of mine said come down and we're working the rural arts program and South Carolina had gotten a big grant from the NEA yes there were times when the NEA did this and they they gave money out for people to go and work in rural settings so from the ART I went to James Island in South Carolina where they speak Gullah and my first job was in a cafeteria with 16 African American students who still live in the houses that their slave grandparents lived in they had outhouses they did not know theater and they watched soap operas and I had to teach theater to them because the awakening moment that I had and I bet you all had had that moment I want you to think about that moment for yourself right we all had that moment where we wouldn't be in this room and I said to myself what am I going to do I mean there was macaroni and cheese on the floor what am I going to think you know how do I find common ground and at a certain point I said and they you know in cafeterias where they have three steps they got on the three steps in a voice order and they literally serenaded me for about 20 minutes in four part time so I said we're going to do a Greek play right and these kids had never been to a theater they watched soap operas so we make that's why Greek they loved it and they had to go to a competition and of course Charleston, South Carolina you have the public schools and then you have the Catholic schools I mean the religious schools public schools and another group so it was black and white and white troop after white troop came into this competition and my kids came up and of course they did and I am sure it was racist right and it broke my heart and I think that was the moment where I said I wasn't going to turn around and go back into mainstream theater so I ended up working in the rural arts initiative for eight years and I did worked with James City which is the first African American community it's where the black slaves came and that Duke had documented their ancestors so we could trace their oral histories all the way from 1860 something rather all the way up to current times so we took white members of the community and black members of the community and it was like amazing then I ended up in Palo Alto, California in a theater now I want you to who has crossed over from being an individual artist doing this kind of work to being now in an institution and I say that because there was a time when institutions didn't even have education departments they just they might be making money off of camps and they might be doing classes but they're definitely not reaching out to their communities because they're the White House on help so then they all were like we got to have education departments so those of us that were doing work we stood and then you run into institutions I ended up in Palo Alto, California Palo Alto, California if you don't if no one knows it is very white on one side of 101 and very diverse on the other side of 101 you go to Palo Alto High School and it's like a private school it's public school and you literally go a mile across 101 and you are in a community that does not have proper electricity whose elementary schools don't have proper electricity who are being barraged by charter schools coming in and this is all established because of redlining and blah blah blah blah I mean it's important stuff but it's a radical it's so vast that I don't want to so I spent most 10 years exploring that divide of 101 we worked with fences and my theater allowed me to do a lot of community engagement projects we did a Joy Luck Club Bridges project and we brought all of this into the theater we got oral history we gave them cameras they documented them so it was all wonderful stuff it changed the people who came to our theater maybe that much maybe and it cost money right so I had I started to rethink why are we doing this I know why I want to do it but why what does it mean if it doesn't you know if I was integrated in the community not in East Palo Alto I knew the schools I knew the social service agencies but at the same time why so I'm bringing that question up to us as a group we all are on the bandwagon but I think there has to be a moment when you ask yourself a very personal question in order to stay on you know in order to stay moving forward right so we started a children's healing project all of that stuff so I learned a lot during that time on how to make successful long enduring projects how to create long successful relationships how to figure out how to make a program that suited the theater but also would have longevity in the community right it was always a balancing act of going from the theater world into the community world and trying to figure out how do I be that rich right and then the alley called and I was 15 years skin Palo Alto and I knew the alley's reputation it's what it's the largest theater in America we have an $18 million budget and they had two education people they didn't raise a lot of money for their education department interestingly enough and so when I being said what do you what do you how would you define yourself and I said what I do is artistic but he went sure but within the first year I realized that he had no idea what I was talking about when I said what I do is an art form right and Greg who's now no longer there was like you're smart enough just do it it's great and we're over here and where we do the arts you do the education and the community engagement so I found myself and I took the job I think because I had learned a lot and I'm like what good is my work that I've done if I am not in an institution like that trying to change it from the inside out I can keep doing projects and that's great but I think before I die and I'm older what do I want to stand for well the change is not going to happen unless those institutions change first of all I need to understand that institution and second of all then I need to know how to how to maneuver in that world right and so the last five years I've been at the alley I did manage to get something like this that's Ed Maybury from Atlanta that's Rain she's our slam poet she works with all of our residencies in in our partner school program they range from Sharpstown which is probably 95% Latino, 5% black all the way up to St. Francis that had to sit down and talk about race when she came into the classroom right she's a phenomenal poet and then come on and then we have Zas who is an Austin poet and he came in and did a whole bunch of teaching for us my boss watching this oh my god I wish I had taken a picture right and he was uncomfortable he was especially he watched Ed right and Ed's powerful he's from Atlanta and he's like an international slam I mean he's a powerful man saying a powerful thing you know and my boss who is probably a little he calls himself an old white guy and he sees that he says I'm just an old white guy right and he watched this and I think it was a dawn on him right and the next time he let us be on the main stage which of course I don't think was the right move for us again we learned as we go so that was the first thing and it went all great everybody came our new works people were like we want these poets and our new works whatever and they did they brought Zangu we brought a hip-hop piece to our main stage the next year because they were so affected by this so yes I made some change right so off I went right and we do have a lot of education programs so I'm doing all this along so now now we're at where I had to go up a little in my thinking I knew how to do this I made it happen and now I want together to go up a little in our thinking because I slammed against the power structure after this I don't know why I'm not going to make any judgments on that we have 140 employees we are in a constant mode of fundraising I have now 9 employees in my department but bang you weren't going to go any farther than that they did but Greg was there and Greg was what was that scenario this morning where we would hire diverse people if they would audition and if they were out there and what about the company there was not a lot of will to make any other change this was nice diversity now in our hallways we all recognize that so as we encountered this is going to be important as we moved into our next thing right we all knew who was responsible for anything right if we are going to have slam poets who is going to market them if we are going to have talk backs does the artistic it was like the whole organization was in a tizzy because they had been doing things the power structure and I'm talking I'm making tiny steps I'm not making big steps here right so we had to define these things because everybody marketing people were doing community engagement when we sell group tickets and it's like no one no one and they all have their audience everybody is talking about these terms and no one in the organization knows anything and I've got handouts so we defined it it's faulty we said what is audience development what is audience engagement and what is community engagement right those are our three things and and then this was the line that had the most push back on it who is the primary owner of each of those things and it's permeable right but we really had to establish something in our organization I don't know if you've done this in your organizations but we found it gave somebody to everybody who was going something to hang on to right so I'm objective for all of us and I'm being very on the ground about this I'm not being theoretical I'm not saying equity and diversity and inclusion I'm being where my institution lives which is money they want to make art yes I don't want to put that down yes they want to make art but they think about money and there is nothing wrong with that so we just were we want to build audience size we want audience participation and loyalty we want to have someone subscribe right and we want strong two-way relationships within the community they didn't have that happening so much and it's grown a lot the alley is beloved the alley is beloved in Houston so people know about it I didn't have to struggle with anything there but it isn't a place that some of the organizations that should think it's their home know about it they know about it but they don't know about it so then we added this so for instance the marketing when we want to develop audience we we are focusing on increasing attendance numbers from existing and new groups and building membership numbers I mean this is very there's no Mormon fuzzy about this this is very this is in the speak that the marketing department and the board break down all of our programs it just gave them an idea so flow of conversation this was very important for people to understand that the institution to potential audiences and then over here artist institution to audience audience to artist institution audience to audience inside the theater right and then who's outside it's community engagement this seems if you have ever worked in a large organization people think they understand this people think they know this but they don't there's these lines where the group sales guy thinks one thing it's never been defined you don't have a common language or something common to to look at this gray area I'm not responsible for that and who's going to take care of that and do our production people have to you know this became a tool I will tell you that my boss disregarded this on one reason on one and we still use it and he was run around because he said the primary beneficiary of any of this is not the organization it's the community think about that he's not wrong in an old way of thinking about things the old way of thinking and I could it was he mansplained to me a good half an hour about this and I I backed off I just said okay I have certain fights I'm going to fight and I'm like but this is we are all about the audience that should be something that's a circle here but I think you have to be honest with yourselves about this one that you want butts and seats you need those you need that just do but it gave me an insight into him which is he really does believe that he's Superman and the arts organization is you know is out there creating the culture right he truly believes that and and that is a way of thinking that hasn't been challenged and there are multiple theaters like this in America that have still not been we are growing and they are they are not in this room they are not in this room so that is why I think building a common framework is important to us because you have an artistic director you have an artistic director they are not thinking in a unified way about this they are just saying that's community right and they think it's good and it brings money but it's still over here because they are not in these conversations how do we get them here well we have to unify we have to have a unified language I am on a mission here and I have this hand out for you I don't know because anybody has done anything like this at their institution you might have done something like that you've done that with you've got one did it change your conversation well I'm realizing that I share my work with my staff and I'm sure it's in some kind of conversation I had with the larger team I might have shared it with them but mostly it was an internal document so we knew what was going on and it was like oh we are doing so many programs these are the ones that are motivated from the community the community wants this thing to happen and then we tap it on it these are the ones that are motivated from the organization wanted to do something it's the same kind of communication touch point the same kind of decision making touch point and the same clarity about who held the power in what rooms but ultimately we always knew that everything was serving the organization or we wouldn't be doing it yeah yeah yeah yours this part is for you every department had to be one I shook my head when you said everybody said that because they want their education programs to actually have just as high an artistic level so no you don't so once they realize that they actually wanted to evaluate that well that's why I take pictures like that but we kept them with us and we actually have a relationship but it is starting to stick in the culture of the organization great anybody else have documents like this and has it changed at least cleared up or created some openings it's cleared up I think we stopped that now we decided we called it the motivation it all existed and we engaged the shifts that's happening these days is I think that people are realizing that education and community engagement or community engagement or whatever is not marketing but you see I think it's a slow dawning for many people who work in our theaters this wasn't for my department to understand it was for the rest of the theater right so we did that and my boss came to me and said we are the second largest Hispanic Latinx community in the United States second to LA and Ali has tried many many many strategies to reach out to the Latinx community in Houston none of them have worked very well they have worked a little bit right so he he said we're gonna do this thing called remote Houston so people started in we call it the I get the words mixed up I'm gonna use this because it's a way to talk about it the fifth ward they have different words like but which is primarily Hispanic and so the audience would come and get a headset and they would walk around the city and it started in a graveyard in the fifth ward and then for an hour they walked through the city and stood and watched subways go by not subways rail go by and they would do certain things and they ended up in way at the top of Houston it was all about community it was all looking at what do you see on the street and that was his first approach into the community but it was still not about the community it was about what we wanted to bring for the community so he then approached me and said we want to bring Misa Frontariza which means border mass it's a group from Monterey, Mexico and they are going to they don't speak English and they are going to come and we've written a grant and the mayor's office has funded it and they're we're going to do this whole thing for the Latinx community and I went wait a minute right that's not going to happen and so I convinced him that we wrote a place making grant from the NEA and it's like always talking about it it was we're bringing Misa Frontariza and we're doing some community engagement around it how many of you have been in that position right we're bringing in the art and and we're going to do some community engagement and they say that now he is a well meaning and well intentioned man and it is a great show and it's all in Spanish and we have simultaneous translation simultaneous translation there's the show it's all about the border and they make the border and they explore what border means and I said we have to go out we have to make friends with certain organizations and we have to and we have to go into those organizations and have them write their stories right so we are in the middle of this process we have a team of teaching artists which is one is Latino and one is on our staff because we didn't want to make the Latino teaching artists learn all of the curriculum and feel but needed to feel supported and we're in I think eight sites and the community is writing their stories and they will also perform their stories at the same time this is happening that was David one of our teaching artists working we're in and then I know this feels culturally out of place because Mead of Frontarisa is about ranchera music I made a stipulation that we have an advisory committee an advisory team that is Latin acts from the community and this was their welcome reception so the whole project is called Elz, Okolo, Mead of Frontarisa that is a man that's on the advisory team talking about what Elz, Okolo is in Mexico has anybody been to the Elz, Okolo in Mexico can you tell them what it's like it's like a classic it's in Mexico City and it's there's families and lots of things come together in that space so hopefully we're going to build that right, are we successful no we have lots of people writing stories and we have lots of advisory team members right but we are making about that much of an impression and my boss is really really good and I said we have to be doing this project three to five years so this is a baby step in trying to figure out the next the next steps that might happen what is the second baby step the project and I'm saying this because it's the duration of a project is important even though it's related to a play tell me about the baby stuff the play will go off and then we will keep the Elz, Okolo part of it and then we will bring in another play or we will bring in another American company or we will create something ourselves every year so that the the relationship deep and deep and deep because we're not going to do something in a year ok so there's my story from individual artists to I get all my tools and now I'm in a big arts organization that I want to be making more change but I'm changing it as I go and it's modified so I'm sitting here going do we make a rubric right so hopefully you've been thinking oh I did that project and I did that project or I work with that group or I work with that group are we doing something that says I just brought up some rubrics and some logic models that we've used at the theater are we doing something like this and what would these categories be right I don't know I have a tendency to think that this is something we might be doing this is a logic model it's filled out for a project that we're doing with the Menager Clinic about social-emotional learning and arts in the classroom in Black Shear Elementary which is a Title I campus that is on the verge of being closed down because they don't have high enough physical they also need mental health practitioners anyway it's mental so that I think is something valuable if we wanted to figure out a common framework I don't know that we would do that but what are the resources you're allocating what are the main activities you are performing what are the outputs of your activities and that's the process and then what your audience learns from the activities what action will they take and what impact will that action have I think that's valuable but I don't know how I'm putting it in your hands because we're going to do a brain dump so I went ahead and said okay all those projects that I told you about what are the common factors that I talked to my executive manager and I said you got to help me I don't think we're doing a logic model I don't know what we're doing but I know we need common language and she said what do you go through what's the checklist you go through when you are making a project whether it's with a hospital a healing whether it's with the Latinx community whether it's an education program whether it's with special needs kids whether it's at the hospital and these are not all of them and I'm not using politically correct terminology I'm just using structural it's on the ground engineering right and there's more here I wanted to start these are seeds right so I think about the duration it's important to think about the funding in that is do you need a return on investment do you have it doesn't have to be self-sustaining sustaining or do you have to have that funding like on my healing project that Lucio practiced at Children's Hospital I knew I had the funding for that year after year until they did that family foundation was gone right place are you in your community in arts organization are you published are you virtual these are all from my own experience so I'm hoping that when I gave you that long preamble you've been going oh I had that project oh she you know manpower I'm sorry I used manpower people power arts organization employees are you using your own employees are you using community members this is to do it to actually do it right a combination of those two do you need outside expertise do you need specialized professionals is training necessary to do this is it multi-discipline a lot of my projects before I well still is visual arts as well as or photography as well as or written written paper and all of that stuff and then process is it within the community on site where is it these are all things that we actually when we when we're making up a program we think of this stuff but we don't know we're thinking of it I think maybe maybe I'm wrong and then populations are we hitting family kids, adults are we dealing with gender are we dealing with multi generations are we dealing with something that's heritage or cultural are we social group specific ladies with red hats when we were doing crowns are we dealing with a racial group what are we dealing with right and then what's our purpose healing building relationships giving voice barrier busting creating dialogue constructing entry points artistic expression welcome or an introduction historic documentation dreams like steel it was all based on historic documentation of the you know creating current events resonance I couldn't figure out a nice way in some of the words are we having a political discussion but I don't want to say that because then we're is that do we want to just say we're having political discussions or are we doing something bigger than that I don't know that's a question I'm asking you guys is your purpose education is your purpose cultural celebration these are not the only things these are just my limited brainstorming so what I want you to do is after lunch how everybody wants to move break into groups of four I think that might work four or five and I'm going to hand out there's markers up here the other one I'm going to hand the other to you guys what have we left out in this who wants to make a list of what have we left out with population or what do we want to call it working what do we want what's the real term that we use when we talk about population that we're working with what more do we want to add to that in terms of criteria so do you want to grab that sure duration I want to give we'll give these brainstorm on duration have I get everything or do we want to add something to that process if processing here so what are the categories if we were to have a unified way of talking about what we do what are the categories that many cognitive categories that you're all looking at me like I'm a little need some explanation how about you guys do funding so if we were to say here's our rubric here's our rubric for community engagement in America in 2018 given the language that we have what more criteria would we want to add to let's say a rubric or or a logic model or whatever what's the language we want to use so is the goal of the rubric to evaluate the program or is the goal of the rubric just to describe it the goal of the rubric is to describe it to someone else maybe there's a way to evaluate I don't know maybe there's a way that you can talk about it I'm doing this to do this to have these outcomes so it's for us to come up with a common language so that we all know we're doing come up with that has earned income return on investment is not necessary so that we we have something that we can start to go oh she's doing the same kind of project that I'm doing right it's not just theoretical it's very engineer like it's very boots on the ground go for it I'm going to go to the floor here it just makes more sense can we go here do the building here add things I feel like a place of music of music of music of music of music you have a song I know it's hard it's no holiday music music music music music music music So like, again, how are these different graphics? Self-modulations? Yeah. I'm going to leave it at that. Do you have a phone? I'm like, where the hell is it? Different graphics. Yeah. And then you can put the groupings on. So what we have right now are our groupings. Oh, we're there. Let's see. Yeah. Let's see. Let's see. I'm going to put that here. Yeah. So I was thinking that they see you like enjoy the trend. So you know where you're going? You're going to be on the line. You're going to be on the line? You're going to be on the line. Is there a way to break down the problem? No, you're not. You're going to be on the line. Are there a way to break down the problem? You're going to be on the line. Are there a way to break down the problem? Yeah. You're going to break down the problem? Yeah. Are there more broad and sporty? I don't know what I would want to do. I love the solo of all the people on the line. Yeah. I'm going to put the groupings on. I'm going to put the groupings on. Yeah. It's very complicated. Would you give his family a vision for outing? Well, out. That's it. What do you mean? It's all right. Yeah. And that's it. It will come back. It'll come back. And it's all right. It's all right. It's all right. It's all right. It's all right. It's all right. It's all right. It's all right. It's all right. It's all right. We started about, did we start about it in your place? Yeah, but we moved in. So we moved in, okay. So like, what is happening? Uh, yeah. That's my, so. Okay. Strategy. Like, would you be able to tackle this? Yeah. Would you be able to do that? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Your view. This is where that kitchen is with. This is Connors College. This is for the community. We're still on the move. I know. So the categories of food. That's a good question. This is. I have to. I have to. I have to. I have to. I have the answer all of them. Is that on the right hand side? Obviously. She says for a long term. Yeah, because it's not up there. A long term program doesn't require a long term program. So that's the kind of project we're trying to do. So the long term doesn't require a long term program. So if you're a long term program, might be a good idea to have a long term program. So you have the final idea you've got. I know there's a lot of work for this one. It's just not as well. What are trying to do in our society? I don't know. So who are we trying to do? We have to figure out how we can do it. I'm not sure. I don't know. There are no more. I know. Because you said in Houston, what would you do? And we also ran a conversation. I was going to talk about New York City. New York City. It's right here. So we're coming under the public level. And it feels like populating is about somebody being somebody's friend. And the man that we're really coming through is like, it's really funny to have conversations under the public level. I know it's hard. So I think this is the only way to encourage everybody. Where the long. Yeah. Right. But I think that's a great question. And I just want to say, yeah, maybe you can probably see it on the screen. Yeah. And she's going to look at it. But I'm going to look at it. Right. I'm going to take a picture of this. Yeah. No, no, no. No, no, no. Yeah. No, no. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. power have to be shared. And then, on the inside, there's all kinds of things. So let's come back. This is some kind of conversation I think we have. So let's come back. So I think I've opened the can of worms. Yep. That was my goal. To share the conversation that we're having. I would be a bit of a devil's advocate with them. It's not easy. I realize that it's totally not easy. But it's necessary. I feel that we, as a group of community practitioners in the Midlands of England, they called it cultural animators, I think it behooves us to find a common language that may not get down to the deepest detail of our work, but is some common bridge that we can share when we talk about what we're doing. Right? So over here, my friends, we're talking. Could you want to share a little bit about what you were? They've got a perspective. I would kick us off, because I feel like I was on the with life. Both those boxes are purple. Are they really the same box? What if we do that? No, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. But you can say, I like purple, though. This is partially coming out. I love purple as well. We were thinking about this as, oh, in the process of creating this work, isn't everybody a collaborator? I feel like that word came from you, Katie. It's like, oh, everybody's a collaborator from the people who are deciding when things are going to be created, even though they never enter the creation space. The folks who are funding that space, creating mandates for that space. The folks who are in the space making it, which includes a lot of us. Sometimes people who are thought leaders. Sometimes people who are actual practitioners. Right? And then you've got the last pool of collaborators, which is your folks who are audience things. And sometimes we were asking them or requesting that they audience in specific ways. Sometimes we're curating that group so that the huge performative thing we're doing together. So it felt like all of those boxes were important boxes to medicate on. We never got to what boxes were missing, though, because we got very... Everybody's got... I know there's huge boxes missing, and everything has to be relabeled. But I also know that it's not an easy thing to do. It's to find a common language. So go ahead and share what you came up with. So some of the categories of collaborators that we broke down that helped us to think critically and intentionally about some of the ways in which power flows through these collaborative, community-engaged processes. So thinking about that some of... Looking at the box-labeled manpower and the box-labeled populations, that that seems to break down in any project. There are some people who are participating and they are compensated for it. There are some people who are participating and they are not compensated for it financially. Some people are paying to participate. Those might be donors. Those might be students paying tuition. Some people are paid to participate. Sometimes that's a symbolic payment. Sometimes that's a full salary that's really enough to support a life. That's not an even playing field. And who has the power to make decisions? So where does decision-making power lie? And in any given project, that's not a given that the power to make decisions always comes from the same place. And where would those... Do we add another category? Do the who's getting paid go into the... Maybe funding is not the right word. Right? How does money flow? The money flow. You know, I don't know. Let's go over here to funding really quick. We're running out of time, but... So we focus on contributing and earning income being two sort of big umbrellas that there's a lot of things that are underneath those two that aren't listed on there. And something we talked a lot about was that you have, especially under contributed, right, you have foundations and government grants things like that, the corporate sponsorships in kind, right? So what kind of resources are you given? And then we also talked a lot about this idea of time and whether it's employees or people that come from the outside that are volunteering their time or their expertise, how that plays into it and how it's difficult to quantify that and how tensions can lie in that when you're building new programs or you're strengthening existing programs and how that contributed funding, right? Because that's the time that you could be paying someone. Can you pay those people? Do you... Not even discuss paying, right? So how does that happen? And then earned income, ticket sales, tuition, membership and subscriptions, concessions, merge rentals, sort of those tangibles. But we talk a lot about the idea of time and volunteering as expertise and in tangible and how do you stuff that out? And we didn't really get to the return on investment because we didn't really know what to do with that. Is it really that it's meant to be self-sustaining? Is it that you're going for a multi-year grant? Is it, you know, is it... We just weren't quite sure what return on investment meant in this... because every project is so different, so... Yeah. Back there. We're running out of time, so I want to... We don't have any, but we'll just continue. Just in fact, like, is that an outcome of a lack of extra time in the community because sometimes there is... That's reevaluate, isn't it? Just as it goes along saying a lot of healing as well. Yeah. I want to just do this. Wait a minute. Go. Is it going? It's not going. It's not moving. My question to you now is as we can tell, this is not easy. It's really not going to be easy. And so my question is, what's next? Right, if we were to continue this conversation next year or in six months, release a rubric, something rather, what would that look like? And how would we go about continuing this conversation? Would it be a rubric? Would it be a list? Well, we started it here, so let's just start where we are, right? Does anybody want to jump in and say, hey, I'll take these, I mean, I'm going to take two, and try to make sense out of everything that we've put up here and actually form a committee to say we're going to end up making teaching artists way back when Eric Booth has to a rubric, which I resisted terribly about what success looks like in teaching artistry. I didn't, you know, I was like, it's too much, right? But I really think that we're at an impasse now where if we have a common language, we are going to make a dent in the power struggle and structure much stronger than if we don't have a common. So does anybody want to work with me in order to sort of maybe make sense out of and change these up so that they actually describe what we're talking about? One, two, three, four. We need, you know, we need one more person. Right. What we're going to do then is we're going to take all of this. This was a seed and the only seed I could think of as I went, what are the very basic details that we can jump off from? Please feel free to reach out to one of us or myself and we will have some, I think, phone calls about how do we put something together that people will then look at and go, that's not right, or that's right, collaborate on in order to come up with some kind of unified, beginning of a unified language, right? And I think it has to start small and I think then it has to grow. So that's my, yes, where we've got to go. So everybody, I do, if you want to contemplate some of this stuff I have handouts of just this slide, of just this slide, of just this slide, of just this slide.