 Hi, Antonia. How are you? Good. And you? I'm okay. Good to see you. Hi, Antonia and Robin. We're, we're live since I didn't do a panelist link. And so I guess we'll just wait until we have a quorum. Okay. Nate, can I ask you about digital resources subscriptions for research? And I sent you a couple of emails on that. I know you're swamped on everything. Like looking at you. Go ahead and counting about that. I'll ask again. So we sometimes we have subscriptions and sometimes they get funny about it. So, um, Okay. There's no way. I mean, I'm like, I have access to ancestry.com through work. But genealogy bank is also really good. And newspapers.com. I mean, that those are the, they're pretty essential for providing the context for any research on informed these that we want to do. So, right. Yeah, let me also know I'll ask around again. Okay. I think you said you couldn't be here. And then Madeline can't join till a little later. Okay. But if that's where we'll have quorum, right? We may not. Yeah. You'll have to think tight. Hi, Heddy. Hi there. I like that. Nice to see you. You're muted. But I think you said, you're Robin. I said, nice to be here. You're not in your red chair. You're in your white chair today. Cause I'm not in my home with the red chair. Yeah. All right. So that's who we're expecting, right? Yeah. Madeline will join us in a little bit. So I think this is it. Okay. So I will open the meeting at six 34. Okay. Meeting of the Amherst historical commission. On January 8th. 2024. I'm in a little trouble for some. Oh, I think I know my area. So I was going to read the preamble to our public meeting pursuant to Governor Baker's March 12th, 2020 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law. Thatook on the 10. Senator Jan Scott. And pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021. That extended by chapter 22 of the acts of 2022 and extended again by the state legislature on July 14th, 2022. When signed into law in July 16th, 2022. This public meeting of the town of Amherst historical commission is being conducted. By a remote participation. No in-person attendance of the members publicly permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. A hyperlink to the hearing has been posted on the town's online calendar. Whoops. So the first item on our agenda today is announcements. These announcements, I have two. One is in regard to the, I think I sent out an email announcement about a webinar this Thursday. If for anybody who's interested in how historic districts are created, I don't have the information in front of me, but if anybody is interested and they wanna send me an email, I could send the link again. I think it's the Nash, it's, I can't remember the name of the group, but it's a group that is focused on historic commissions in their training. And then secondly, the nominations for, and again, I've not done having in front of me, but I just circulated the Preservation Award that came from Bonnie Eisman. Let's see if I can find that email. I think to the, yeah, to the... Archelle Ward, sponsored by the Amherst Historical Society. Right. Hedy had responded and said North Amherst Community Farm could be a suggestion. Yep. And I'll be happy to second that idea. I've been feeling like they're due for some sort of award for their pretty impressive effort to renovate the farmhouse there. And I was on the CPA committee while they came forward for funds for that. And we can get to how that would be prepared when we go to our one year and five year goals, which I'm actually ready to present on. So do you have any announcements, Nate? This evening I had sent a letter with an updated form B for Grace Church. I think that, you know, it's not, I mean, much to say about it, but I think we'll see if Mass Historic will, you know, do that and then let, you know, let the town and Susanna know if their form B is updated, but... Yeah, that's really interesting. Yeah. I know it came in a little under the wire. Okay. Does anybody else have any announcements? Nope. We're trying to... I'll say it looks like, Robin, someone from the Emily Dickinson Museum may be here. Okay. I don't know if we wanna ask her to speak. That way, if they, you know, I don't know if Jane will make it later, but we could move the agenda around. Okay. So we wanna do that now. Move number five up to number two. Sure, I would get asked. I was here to raise their hand for the Dickinson Museum and we can, all right, I'll promote you to panelists. Greetings. Hi, Eddie. Hi, Shantia. It's been a long time. Yep. Jane is actually planning on presenting. I just told her that I would hop on and kind of keep track and we will text each other as soon as we know that you're ready for us. So she would like to be here, but she can't be for a little while, so... Okay, I wasn't sure if you were here just in case, you know, something else. Yeah, no, she would really like to be here to present. So I'll just hang out behind the scenes and knit while we wait for that agenda item. All right. All righty. And you'll see when she shows up, right, Nate? Yes, yeah. Okay, all righty. Thanks. You're welcome. Okay. So with that in mind, then, I think we're on to agenda item number two, which is discussion number one and five-year goals. The first item under there is preservation plan comments. I'm assuming that was just a follow-up from last agenda. I don't have any new comments. Do you have anything to let us know about, Nate? No, Shannon had said she was hoping to get a draft, if not last week than this week, an updated version to the commission. So when I received that, I'll send it along. I was thinking that maybe we'd have, you know, would have received it and we could have, you know, had something to say about it, but I think it'll just, we can keep it on as a placeholder. Okay. Okay, great. So survey results. So hopefully you all saw, finally managed to get the survey out and all of the commissioners responded in a very timely fashion. Thank you so much. I'm gonna try to share my screen. Let's see if I have permission. I might need to, yeah. You should be able to Robin if you. Yep, yep. I'm just trying to figure out which thing it is I'm wanting to share this one. Okay, so everybody I see my color coded Excel screen. Was that clear for everybody? You can just give a little thumbs up. Yes. We good, Nate, can you see that? Yes. That's legible for me. I do have a big one here though. Okay. All right. Does anybody need it pumped up at all? I can do that. I can at least do a, actually I know maybe it's not gonna do that. All right. You never mind. All right. So I pulled together this afternoon, the rankings for one year and five year goals and their relative importance to members of the commission. So this is our one year goals and ranked in order. So that's just an average weighted score. Five years, five year goals. I took a couple of goals that were split between one and five year. I put the bylaw and deconstruction into five years because judging from how long it took us to do demolition delay revision one year is ambitious. And then I put the National Registered District East Village expansion assistance into the one year. So that's pretty much ongoing right now. And then I have a third tab here, which just show everybody's priorities for what they'd like to work on. So in order of importance, we had CPI funding goals, preservation restriction policy, inventorying underrepresented populations, general updates to the inventory, the training guide for commissioners. People were excited about that. Our barn and outbuilding assessment program. This was something that I had thought about a while ago, a demolition hearing signage. Then we have the East Village expansion and that's the National Registered District, not to be confused with the local historic district project in that regard. And then our lowest scoring item was outreach and preservation award nominations. But I will say that that is something that it would be awesome to have a volunteer, Hedy, wink, wink, nudge, nudge to take that on. Hedy was, I think, the one commissioner who was interested in it. So that might be the one of the easier ones to assign. And yeah, that preservation masks and Massachusetts Historical Commission also have their own award programs. I don't have any information on the other two, but like I said, I did get that, I sent out that email from Bonnie Eismann. So Hedy, maybe I can just ask you with this point since that's actually one of the most pressing items, are you willing to take on that task as part of your show? Okay, great. And then our five-year goals in order were number one was inventorying the modern period in Amherst, which I was kind of excited about, a deconstruction by-law tide, some interest in a five to thrive list, then cemetery updates and the preservation funding guide were next, demolition structures, national register nominations, affirmative maintenance by-law, and walking tours, rounding at the bottom. So I think the next, I'm just looking at the time here, the next question is sort of figuring out who to assign a primary responsibility for following up on any of these. And I don't know exactly the best way to go about that. I did, like I said, I did do this table which shows each of the projects and people and their level of interest. So the best thing, since we don't have a full commission right here, the best thing might be for me to maybe make assignments based on people's rankings and check in with people by email. Does that seem like a good idea? Feel free to express an affirmative or comment. Yeah, I was gonna just jump in, the preservation restriction policy, and we've talked about that, I know Ben did a while ago too when we had some draft documents. Yep. And I've asked on the town attorney to develop a template or two restriction, in part because we have some outstanding CPA projects that really need their balances closed and are essentially done except for the restriction. And so I'd like to keep working on that. I feel like we had a pretty good discussion a bit ago and there's notes from that. And I think that would be nice to formalize it and then have that and we can provide that to the CPA committee. And then it could go hand in hand with some funding guidelines. I know some communities, for instance, I know I'm switching topics, but with CPA funding, they might limit the amount of funding per property or applicant, either in a timeframe or generally. And so I think we had kind of talked about, excuse me, if there was a funding threshold over which a permanent restriction would be necessary or so I think it's a little bit of both. But I'd like to work on that policy. I can kind of formalize some of the stuff we talked about and then bring that back to the commission. Yeah, so it'd be sort of like how we did Demolish Delay with Ben, like he kind of worked on the parameters and brought it to us for our input without somebody on our side having to kind of write and design the whole thing. Right. Okay. Excuse me, great. Okay. Does anybody have any questions or comments on our goals going forward? Happy to hear any feedback. I just kind of threw this out there at you guys. Well, thank you for doing the survey. I thought it was really great. Okay, good. Good, I hope that's helpful. It brings a good focus, Robin, to our work. Okay. All right, so look for an email for me for your potential assignments. I'm just gonna make sure that I save this before it all disappears. Madeline is in the audience. Oh, yeah, her hand's raised, thanks. Welcome back, Madeline. You're muted, yeah. She is, yeah, hey. Hey, hi, everyone. Welcome, how's that baby of yours? Good, she just turned four months old, so. Oh, terrific. Now a baby, not just a newborn. Yeah, she's doing good. Good. Thanks for arranging your schedule to be able to join us. It's really a huge problem. Nice to see you again. Nice to see you guys. So maybe you're following along. We were just looking at the survey results for the commission and having developed a one in five year goals. I'll be sending out potential just assignments just to give people a focus for the work that they wanna do on the commission in their off hours, which we all have so many. So next up on the agenda is updates. Documentation of 140 South Street. Hedy and I went to a site visit a couple of weeks ago in a very chilly, it was a Friday morning. We took photos of the interior and exterior of the building and following that meeting, I've always been sort of fascinated by how small the footprint is of the main block of this building. I did a little bit more, well, I couldn't do more deed research because the detrail ended with the Simeon Edwards who's listed, I think on the 1860 map, but I was able to trace his ancestry back to Jonathan Edwards, which is also the name of very famous Reverend from Northampton. There's sort of I know no relation, but he was the son of, is it Simeon Strong? And he's listed on a 1772 map, which I hadn't seen before in that area. So, and also a, sort of in the Civil War was in that Civil War, Revolutionary War and was a Minuteman. So it really interesting history and I pursued a little bit more information I wrote to Eric Ridoya, he used to be the director of Fist or Deerfield and he gave me some feedback. He said, he let me know that he thought he could find, there's some granite veneers on the front foundation that he thought they were probably from, cored from Pellum and might have, could probably find a way to salvage and repurpose them. So I wrote a couple of emails to Nate and the owners, just to see if we could arrange to get some more documentation as demolition progresses of the frame and the interior structure to see if we could date it more officially and then perhaps salvage that granite and possibly there were some also some very, I'm sorry I didn't get the materials out to you but there were some very wide mine floor boards in that first section of the house that were undisturbed up to this point. So that was really, I was glad that we went and I'm gonna take that information and prep a Form B that we can helpfully submit to document the building so that it's on record after it's demolition. Any questions or comments on that? Property. Robin, this is a Southeast Street house. Yep. Yep. So probably Eric or I thought it was around mid 1800s. This other map connected to Jonathan Edwards is from 1772 that the house is in a slightly different location that could have been a different structure. Yeah, I think during the demolition hearing, Robin had done some title and was hard to confirm the date of this construction of there's three properties we looked at. And it's possible that some of the material could have been salvaged, right? But it looked like there had been a structure there agreed a different location and different names and it was unclear if we could make that conclusion. And so I think it's great that they were able to go in and look at it and now we can document it. It is difficult sometimes to pull that information and confirm it. Yeah, I mean, the one thing that we could pretend if we can get to the framing before it's destroyed to check for sawmarks and nails. Those are the only two things left, I think, in terms of dating materials and construction methods. Yeah, and how the framing is joined. So that'd be interesting to see. Have you heard anything from the owner or no project manager? No. I think they, as far as I know, they hadn't applied for a permit yet to do that work, but they say it's forthcoming, but if you, Robin, I mean, you have the email, if you want to reach out and say, could we coordinate another visit if you wanted? I mean, they seem really willing. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I know I sent everything like over the break. So no, that's not the best time to, but I think it would be, I mean, and I don't know if you could attend, I've never been to a structure, like if we're looking for, and maybe Madeleine also might be available or Heady, to help document the physical resources. Yeah. That would, and certainly some of the structure is going to be behind the walls. It's going to be part of the demolition process, but. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if they'll, how they'll demolish it, if they'll expose anything. So we could see if they would, my thought as they come in there and they just have a big bucket and a dumpster and they just will take that down in like two hours. Unfortunately, it's really quick. But yeah, I mean, other than that, it's photographs with good lighting. And then we could always ask someone to help, you know, look at those photographs to see, you know, what kind of, right, saw marks, is it quarter-sawed? Is it, you know, what, you know. Right, right. You know, even like nail heads. Yeah, yeah, that was, I mean, the framing is the only thing that, I don't know if they'd be willing to open up a wall or something so that we get a look and to see whether to join it. Yeah, in a corner too. I mean, it could be that, right, sometimes, you know, especially where, you know, if there's any load bearing points and we can see the joinery. So sometimes things are reused and it's not, it's not actually not load bearing. You know, it's not, you know, repurposed as building material, but not in the way it was originally used. So sometimes number of frames will be reused as some supporting material, but not in the way you can see a different notch marks or other thing. So yeah. And Nate, I was going to ask this, I know that my brain is just really slow today. Our town manager, his name is Ski-Ping-Ping. Oh, I wouldn't have said that yet, Paul. Apocalypse. Apocalypse. Thank you. I was like, yeah, I know that he, especially a lot of interest in the East Amherst district. And this really is like, you know, a pretty old house from them. If you just want to forward any materials to him that you think that he would find interesting and useful and let us let him know what we're hoping to be up to. Okay. Any other questions or comments on that item? Okay. And then a wildwood cemetery is on here, I think because we discussed it last time and I don't have a further update. My hope is to get a I offer to Rebekah Frick to provide some edits on the form B that she's preparing and also looking toward maybe getting her help documenting some of the cemetery grounds and the burial plots. And I think the form B is kind of the next step. I need to kind of build out a plan for that whole area, but I would think that we'd want to do a form B, update the form B for the house, and then it could be possibly be a national register. Nomination property, but we are not there yet. Yeah. We can leave it on. I let her know that she didn't need to attend tonight. It's just an ongoing agenda item just so we don't forget about it. And now that it's grounded, it will take a bit, but I think this spring documenting the grounds will be important in trying to confirm plots or other markers and photographic documentation so there's a simpler form for cemeteries and grounds and then you can do a more in-depth form previously when we had the town had submitted or any community for cemeteries would just be a really, if you want picture of the whole cemetery and then a little narrative and now the expectation is there's a lot more documentation, especially something of this size that will take a bit of an effort. Yeah. And that, I mean, the wildwood cemeteries significant and amorous for it being our, I guess our first and only, well, it's our only garden cemetery, right? The garden cemetery movement, though. Okay. Oh, that was well timed. So we're up to item number four, the presentation of changes to the interior of the Jones library regarding the expansion project. And there's going to be a discussion and a vote on tax credit. So I think I'm going to let Madeline take over at this point. Vice chair, I'm going to be recusing myself related to my work at MHC. And then for anyone who's here in the audience who will present or want to be part of the panelists, you can raise your hand and you'll be, we can promote you over too. And then they, I mean, I seem to recall whenever Jane recused herself, she would mute her microphone and take herself off screen. Is that a standard protocol? Okay. All right. So take her away, Madeline. Bye, Robin. Yeah, somebody's battling. Oh, go ahead. I just want to promote everyone before we, I just want to make sure you're not going to get. Okay. Yeah. Do you want to just see, and I'll make you co-host as well. I just have to slowly work down the, the hands. Okay. Sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt. I just wanted to, that's fine. I think everyone's joining us now. Okay. Do you want to set us up or if you get your, I said if you want to. Okay. So today we'll be reviewing the interior changes to the, to the Jones library. So that we can issue our letter, whether we recommend the, this, the application to MHC for the federal tax credits. So today we've asked the architects to just really walk us through the interior changes, what will be preserved and what will be altered in each of the interior spaces. So in reviewing interior changes to a historic building, it's really important to identify the tangible architectural components that convey the building's sense of time and place. These are, or it's, it's historic character. So this doesn't mean we need to keep every aspect of a building. It's just our duty to identify that these character defining elements. So I sent around earlier the National Park Service's preservation brief kind of on this issue. If an interior has been modified by additive changes and if changes have not acquired significance, it may be relatively easy to remove alterations and return the interior to its historic appearance. If an interior has been greatly altered through subtractive changes, there may be more latitude in making further alterations in the process of rehabilitation because integrity of the interior has been more compromised. So there's just ways to evaluate the changes to each interior space. And we just have to kind of consider why the Jones Library is historically significant. You know, it was constructed as this sort of domestic building to sort of resemble a house so that it was more attractive and maybe more comfortable for visitors to, to sort of, you know, to come to. So we'll just, I'd like to go through each of the interior spaces if we could. I'm not sure if what has been put together for the presentation today. We, we have a slide deck that we can share. I'm Ellen Anceloni. I'm a principal at Fine Gold Alexander. I've been working on this project from the beginning and Tony Shaw is going to take us through, but I just wanted to say one quick thing about us and Fine Gold Alexander, we've been in business for over 55 years. And the focus of our business has been working on historic properties. So we don't like to toot our own horn, but we're the experts at this. I just want to relay this to folks is that people hire us specifically when they're dealing with historic buildings because we are sensitive to what's happening. Right. So we're not the kind of firm that comes in and just take stuff away just to take stuff away because we don't like it. We don't know how we work. That's not in our DNA. And the way what we're doing, how we're working with the library is to get the program that's the library needs into the addition and the existing building. So that's always a challenge. And the other piece of the challenging puzzle here is all the existing plaster has asbestos in it. So it all has to come out. So for that to happen, we have to take the trim. The trim off. And then put it back on. So this is a huge task that we don't often encounter. But that's what we're doing. I just want to folks to understand it's a huge task. What we're doing here. And we are keeping and Tony will take us through this as much of that historic fabric as we can, because that's in our DNA. That's what we do. I just wanted to get that out there. So not to hold us up. Tony, do you want to start sharing and and get the show on the road? And it is a lengthy slide deck, but we will go through it. And Tony, I'll let you set it up. Go ahead. I don't want to step on your show. No, no, we're exiling. Thank you very much. And great to see everyone tonight. And as Alan said, my name is Tony. I'm the director design of the firm. And also joining us is some additional colleagues, Joseph Penta and also Jim Alexander is in the wings. And I'm going to try to set this up. And as Alan said, we have a number of slides that go through and we can certainly get into as much specificity and detail as he would like. But as we stated from the outset, really the intent is that the vast majority of what we're trying to hold on to and preserve is to is to retain the work to the greatest extent that we can. And particularly attention working around things such as, you know, careful milk work details, fireplaces, molding, chair rails, picture rails, wainscoting, paddling. These are the things that are particularly germane and particularly historically defining characteristics of your beautiful library. And I think one of the things that we also think about is how to try to preserve and keep intact. And as Alan pointed out where we have to remove is that we will essentially remove very carefully and then put back once the place has been restored. So I'm just going to lead you through space by space. And there's again some amount of detail, but in some ways I'm going to try to be sort of overarching in the descriptor. And then we can always get into the particulars. So of course this is the overview. And we're going to start with level one. Tony, one quick thing. We thought it might be helpful if we're allowed to go through the slides. And then if folks could take their notes, we can come back to those questions, but it is quite lengthening and we thought it might be comprehensive to do it that way. Yes. Thank you, Alan. And please orbearance on that. But in order for us to try to get through this material for you and not abuse your time, I think let's see if we can do this. So I'm going to just literally go through space by space. So level one, this starts first year with the main entry vestibule area that you come in to the library. And essentially the key takeaway from this is that everything is going to stay. So some of this again will be removed as a result of dealing with the issues surrounding the plaster and otherwise. But once it's removed and everything is put back, we will put back what essentially is here. So the intent here is to essentially retain and place back in kind as this. So this will be one quick thing. I'm sorry. I'm just going to set it up. So what we've done is, is we've taken all the may all the rooms. This is from the PNF, I believe that was issued. So we took all the rooms. We have put them in a spreadsheet, which is at the end of this slide deck in which we can get to you. And then we took photo of each of the spaces. So each room you're going to get, it's essentially the same setup floor plan photograph or photographs and then across the top, and we can zoom in a little bit so folks can read it. What were, what the overall work is in that room. Thanks. And I think for just graphic purposes, when you see a plan orange colored in orange, like here that is a particular area that is being addressed. So that's the main entry vestibule, which is shown in here. And then the photographs, which we've tried to include where relevant shows particular image and the orientation is showing which way it's facing. Plan is always North in all of these instances of page up. So this, for example, is looking at the south elevation in this particular entry vestibule, which is the main entry itself. So again, I'm going to just try to go through this because there's some of the littered program spaces getting more into details. As we move then from that entry vestibule, now we're in the main front entry hallway, which is this area here in room 101. And again, the particular things that are for Jemaine, these images that are shown ranging from 63 to 67 are shown to the right. So you can see here clearly what each of those photographs represent and their particular orientation based on the way the arrows are pointing. And one against the key thing about this particular space, again, is that everything will be retained in place, including all the framework around the elevator door, for example, and basically restored and put back where needed. So this is essentially going to retain the defining characteristics of the space. So what we'll look the way it is now. And something like the flooring would. Flooring is going to be new. What we're really addressing here is in particular the focus on millwork, the historically defining characteristics. That is why we're seeing in these particular elevations, all the attention is rolling around millwork. So again, the intent here is essentially to restore and put back in place what exactly exists here now. As we move to the next space, this is after you pass the entry hall, now we're in the entry foyer again in area 101A. And again, I'm going to pass to the right show the different viewpoints taken in that space seen in the far right. And in this particular area, this is sort of a mixture of what's being preserved and what is being is being removed. And I'm going to have Josephine actually get into a little bit more into the details that particularly relate to this space. So Josephine, if you want to talk and I can use my cursor. Sure. We could look at view 75 first in that photograph. We will be retaining the two archways. The archway on the right will remain in place. The archway on the left will be relocated. And the percentages you see on that south wall is because of that. Those two will be retained and the shelving will be removed. As far as. And what will be in place of the shelving? Sorry. In place of the shelving. So this is all reconfigured. This is where the new egress stair will be located. There will be a new staircase introduced into this space. Yes. Will there be a doorway into that staircase? Yes. If Tony, you could just point. Yeah. Right here. Yeah. Here. So this. So. What this plan is showing here. This is your existing plan right now. In one of one. And this is the change. That results from the introduction of the new staircase. So essentially these areas here. You can see what's being modified. As a result of that, but the example. Just described that one. Archway, which is dashed in here is essentially going to be. Relocated, which is shown here. So this is the proposed plan that changes this plan here. So you just have to imagine this layout. He's overlapping this layout. So what you're seeing the orange is what's, what's being changed. So this plan should be, if we were to look at this picture, it would be as though this plan were turned upside down. Just to. Sort of. Yeah. I mean, yes. Kind of correct. Yeah. That's correct. Okay. So that that archway, for example. Which is dashed in is shown relocated. As a result of the change of the design. Okay. I'm going to keep going because what, what we're really trying to point out also in cases like this. When we have to modify the plan as a result of the design. Okay. I'm going to keep going because what, what we're really trying to point out also in cases like this. We're trying out to modify the plan as a result of the change in things like stairs or other things being introduced. Again, the attempt is aware where we're always capable of doing. We basically keep millwork. As is and the current place, but when things modify, such as an example of that arch, we are relocating that particular trim work, but it's going to reuse and repurpose the millwork so that we're reusing it as opposed to removing it. That's the intent. I think we also, so this, this is important for us to know that the interior kind of space of that. Just so we're on the same kind of wavelength moving forward. So this interior space will have a wall sort of bisecting it in the future. So that's correct. That's a modification that we would want to know about. For example, that's what if you're referring to this, this is the wall that is going to bite bite bite. Sect here because of the fact that this is coming out in order to accommodate the new stair. That's correct. Okay. Okay. Yes. And thank you for the questions. I know that this is gets pretty detailed. This next space room one or two. Essentially you can see here, this is to the right of, you know, the existing stair entry hall. And in this case, this is the center administrative office area and almost everything stays in this in this area with the exception of one set of shelving on the south wall, which is proposed to be removed. And again, Josephine, if you want to mention anything related to this. So in one or two, it's mainly on the west wall, which is image number 69. As you can see there, we have the door and frame and then casework to the left or millwork to the left and that millwork will have to be removed. This is where the new automated handling system will be located. And so we will be keeping that door and frame in place and pinning the door shut. Okay. So we just, I think moving forward in this presentation, I think we really do want to know more than the millwork is, is really good to know about, but we also want to know about the modifications to the plan. And then also sort of new mechanicals that are being introduced to these types of spaces. So it's important for us to know about the. This automated. Book system that's going to be introduced here because that's, that sort of changes the character of the space. So, right. So just going forward, yeah, let's make sure that we mention these types of. Sure. So we can do that one quick thing though, that book sorter is essentially a piece of equipment. It can, it's like a Xerox machine. It can be removed. Okay. It's not built in. Yeah, it's not built in. It's a, it's a piece of technology. That basically starts the book when people deposit. So it's able to help. Does not take the library's ability to handle material at a much greater level. Okay. Okay. And so, I know, I know you said keep questions to the end. I just want to ask, when you say that a percent of millwork will be permanently removed. Does that mean that it won't be reinstalled at another location or would it be stored? Then I sometimes you say it will be removed and reinstalled in same place. I don't see that any notes about it being reinstalled elsewhere. So on the south wall here. You're saying that, you know, 30% of the millwork will be removed permanently. What happens to that 30% does it get reused elsewhere or does it get put in storage or does it get thrown out? It doesn't get reused in the building. It can go wherever folks want it to go. Right? I don't think the storage space in the library to store it. But if there was somewhere that the town wanted it to go for future, that could happen. Yes. I might elaborate on that just a little bit, Ellen, too. We talked this morning. There are some cases where we're going to be patching to match existing woodwork. You know, where we maybe have to modify a door frame, well, we can use some of this material, which we're removing, we may use to, you know, I guess we used to call it sistering or Dutchman to fill in pieces that have to be made to look continuous. So we're saying removed because in fact, we don't know how much of that we can reuse or if some of it will just have to go into storage or whatever. Okay. I'll keep going. And this is the material return portion in room 102A, which you can see again highlighted in orange here. This is the finance office. And part of this again, we'll have modifications here. This wall is going to be removed. And as a result of that, some non-original millwork will be removed, but the rest of it will either remain and or be reinstalled in place. So again, that is a result of the change in this particular configuration in this area. My details like the window trim and all of that that you can see having in view 70, those will be basically in place and remain after the air has been renovated and put back. So those are the critical things that we are going to hold. So largely it's non-original millwork. This is non-original like so, for example, because we're removing this piece of wall in order to accommodate the book sorter equipment. So that door and that frame will essentially not be kept. But as we said before, certainly if there's a billion in some other instance that the town would like to consider reuse of this, that's how they can be brought up into consideration. This next area is the CERC work area room 103. And in this case, this is the director's office here. And again, because we're removing some of the walls, this will result in some loss of original work work and shelving. And we're essentially going to be looking to try to hold on to as much as we can in this space. But the areas like, for example, the safe door upstairs to the administrative offices along with much of the shelving and other original work work, we have to modify because of the change in the way this is being done. But in the cases where we have the walls remaining and not being modified, this will be essentially kept in place. And so, for example, I'm just going to go to this next slide to show you what I mean. So here you can see this particular area in room 103, which is the director's office area. This area is opening up in order to allow the staff to really work a lot better. But some of the contributing factors like, for example, this area, which is seen in this photograph D, which has no work and areas that exist, we are essentially going to relocate that to here. So again, the dash line represents, and as you can see, highlighted in this area in the photograph, it's shown in the floor plan and that is shown proposed to be redone in this particular because, again, we have a new staircase essentially coming in here that is changing all of this area here. That's the result of this plan change in this area 103. Okay, we'll keep going. In the room 103A, this is essentially a currently accessible entryway. There's a bit of mixture going on here because this is the site entry as you know, coming into your library here. But I don't know, Josephine, do you want to go into this a little bit more in detail? Sure. So as you can see from those photos here, everything on the, since everything, but the fireplace, as you can see is remaining in place. The wall to either side of it will have to be removed for proposed layout. So that's the millwork that we're indicating there. To see from 78, but most of that millwork there, I think most of that millwork there should also be put back in place as well. Yeah. Most of this is essentially being kept and reinstalled in place. So it's really the north wall, which the fireplace remains, but essentially this area, the results of the plan modifications has some impact. It looks like the west wall also is losing all of the trim. So is that doorway remaining or doors? Or is that changing? You mean this area? Right. Right. That will be also removed that, that doorway and wall there will be removed because that 103 is, is connected to the CERC work firm. It's all one big space now in the proposed layout. This is one large space. Yes. Can you describe that a little bit more? Yeah. I think that's a good question. Okay. 103 A is connected to the two rooms that we just reviewed previously. If you could slide up, Tony. Okay. Got it. All right. It's around the corner. One or two 103 and 103 A are all connected. Okay. And the fireplace is no, it's removed. Okay. By your place remains. Remains. Yeah, actually remains. Yeah. But to your point when Justin just said, you can see just the bear tip of 103 A that we're just talking about in this plan. And you can see the changes because again, this whole administrative area is opening up in order to facilitate the staff operations for the directory and for the director and her staff. So, so all of these sort of smaller rooms, this, this area is opening up, but things like the fireplace, window trim details, all of that meal work surrounding that, that is going to be essentially a kept in place, you know, reinstall and, and redone. Yeah. Yeah. What's happening on the back of the stairs on that wall. It's like there's shelves in light gray. Where the, you know, the eastern end. That's, that's right. Those are bookshelves that are located there at the moment. Are they repurposed from anywhere else or. Those shelves currently aren't. I believe those are the ones that we actually have in our program counts for NBLC for what we needed to get in that space. We could double check on that, but we, we will need to have some of those bookshelves probably, but we can circle back and take a look at that wall and see if that's potential for maybe relocation of some of those other shelves. Yeah, I think in general where we're particularly focusing in on is the highly detailed meal work, especially surrounding fireplaces, door frames, and, you know, and, you know, we're trying to maintain, you know, and restore or keep in place. Things like book cases, bookshelves. These, in certain cases, they're essentially not being kept because the programmatic needs with the library changing. And so where we talk about things like bookcases, instances like that, unless it's required due to the library requirements and particularly related not just the library, but the NBLC Mass Building Library Commission requirements, we are essentially not keeping things like these kind of shelving elements of less. It's necessary from a programmatic standpoint. Okay, I'll keep going. So the other area is 104 and 105. Again, as a reminder, this is right at the, you know, side entry to your library, these two spaces, you know, and they're small, small areas, but essentially it's the shipping and receiving areas here. But in this instance, the millwork is going to be, again, removed once we've restored the place and then put back. So this area is, in this many sense, being largely kept in place with the only exception that a part of the west wall here, this has to be, you know, more work. But we're trying to, in this case, come to this defining characteristics, particularly when you come in from that side entrance in 105 here, which you can see in view number 80. Excuse me. And things, of course, like window frame openings like that, these are all be kept and preserved in place. Okay. Next space is room 106. This is now the large kind of central barrel ball reading space, in your current library. And this is sort of a little bit of a mixture here. So things like the plaster crown molding, things like original millwork on the north and east walls, these things will be retained. And things that you see visible, like 117, 114, 115, in those particular instances. Some of the, a little bit of the impact will occur on some of the doorway areas, because we are, again, having to open up this particular space more as a result of the modifications in the plan. So the intent really is, again, to maintain most of the critical areas, especially revolving around plaster millwork, you know, openings, wainscoting, but there is some modifications as a result of changing up some of the things like the walls, in order to open up the library. Excuse me. Okay. Then as we continue, essentially, north of that barrel balled space, which is the adult fiction area of this room 107 here, which currently right now is your fiction stack areas. This is the Palladian window room. So one of the things that, and that particular Palladian window that we're referring to in image 113 is here. So what isn't showing up in this particular floor plan, of course, is beyond this Palladian window is the expansion for the addition, which is, of course, north of this area. So part of the plan issue is that we're opening up this adult fiction area to connect here to here. So we are retaining this whole Palladian millwork treatment, but we are cutting down and opening up the center area because right now, of course, this is an exterior window in your current library. But once we build a new addition, you know, in front of this and behind this, we are literally connecting through from this space into the new addition. So that particular opening, which as you can see dash in orange here, this particular area is going to be removed in order to create that opening through the Palladian arched opening here. But the rest of the trunk work, everything else will remain in kind and in place as is. Okay. This room 124. This is the youth computers area here outlined in orange. It's, you know, during the children's room circulation nonfiction. This already previously underwent major renovations in the past. And most of the historic fabric was not present as a result of those renovations. But I know Josephine, you want to elaborate a little bit more about this. Well, we had a hard time getting finding photographs that actually show some of that fabric because a lot of it, I think is hidden or a couple of things are hidden. But the, the gist of it is that yes, a lot has been changed in the previous renovation. And so looking at these walls now, it's still kind of tough to tell, but most of what we're showing here is trying to see if I can find a different image to show you. But yeah, I mean, our proposed layout has this already configured, but there isn't much retained from the 1927 portion. This is mainly the nineties work that we're looking at here on the left plan image. Okay. So in other words, not much of this was actually original anyways, as a result of gas activations. Okay. And keep going. Room 127. This is the youth fiction for the older children's. So we are in this case going to be removing a portion of the north wall and explain that in a minute here. But in this particular instance, we are going to, as a result, lose some of this shelving here, but we're going to be relocating the east wall, which is here. And I'll show this in a minute. So it's going to relocate all of that, you know, beautiful millwork, which you can see in image number 95. So that is going to be basically relocated as a result of a plan change in this area. And the fireplace, excuse me, the fireplace that currently exists, which is in this west wall gear shown in image 93, this remains. So you can see here in this instance, what I'm talking about. So again, because we're moving in a non co-compliant fire stare or, you know, egress there here, this whole plan area is opening up. So that detailed wainspoting and millwork and all of this trim work around that east wall, which you can see dashed in here, is going to be relocated to here as a result of the opening up of this whole plan. So we're going to put it back, put in a new location as a result of the change in the plan from this to this. And again, this is the fireplace that currently exists. And as that will remain as is in its current configuration. This is, for example, when we talked earlier, and I think Nate brought this up about the stuff being removed. There may be cases here when we're moving this paneling where we'll want to patch certain, certain areas with some other paneling we've taken from somewhere else to make this seem, feel seamless and like it really belongs on this other wall. So, you know, there are these small areas where we'll have to have trim or have to fill in some areas and we can use some of the removed work to complete the picture as it were. Right. Yeah, I mean, I think the reuse of elements like that, if we can salvage it and repurpose it, of course we will do that. And use that it to, because there was a millwork was of that same area and same species of wood. But in that room, so the, the, sorry, the book shelves will be this sort of new shelving. They'll meet the new shelving requirements. So those will be removed. Is that right? Or will they be retained? Don't you want to elaborate on that? We will be retaining. We might not have the full depth for shelving there. We do meet the program requirements. But we will be doing that for the book counts without them. So we will see what we can do with the depth of, of that. When we, when we're in construction, we'll see what we can do with the depth of that. And just as a reminder, this 127 a stare that, that was one of the NBLC requests of, for sight line visibility and program spaces to have that also removed. Tony, just to also. Yeah, I think that I think that I'm not sure if that comes up in later images, but if we do have it, we're just going to point out that those instances of those staircase have been removed because it has to meet new code requirements, which they don't as a result of also the change in the design. Sorry, can you scroll up to the previous slide just to show the room again? Yes. So for instance, and then in the new proposed floor plan, like right now this room is like wrapped in, in a wood essentially, right? Trim and bookcases. So if you go down to the proposed floor plan, Jim, to your point where there's that orange dotted line showing the wall of being removed, you know, would you carry trim over now to that new door? I mean, are you going to, you know, would you try to kind of keep that same feeling or is there just going to be, you know, an end to to the, to the woodwork. So like, you know, in this area, right, right here, right? Like what's happening there if you, sorry, my, you know, you move the screen, but. Yeah, I think it's true. I think what we'll do there, Nate, is evaluate it and infill it with a paneling if we can. Right. It's me, that would be, okay, you know, you know, you have some endpoint to the trim here, whereas it used to go along the dotted line as the wall and now it'll end. And so if that could be continued, then, you know, it's a, it's a much more consistent with the current structure of that room to have the trim, you know, just make that connection, right? That bridge, right? Just between where the line and the new line, new orange line. I think that would be the goal. Yeah. To make that feel consistent and continuous. Yeah. No, we agreed. I mean, I think that's a very good point to raising Nate. And we're sensitive to, again, the coming back to the defining characteristics, balancing between the fact that we're changing it. And we also want to be certain that it looks complimentary and not an afterthought. So very good point. Yep. And we're going to pay attention to that. Okay. So speaking of the, one of the stairs that is, you know, being taken out. So for example, that staircase we were just talking about a minute ago, that's that 127 a stair, which you can see in these images here. So essentially these stairs do not meet code. This space is needed for the collections and patron use. And so this is going to be removed as a result of, you know, reviews with the MBLC. And right now this stairs currently be used to access the second floor reading room, which is going to become the director's office. And therefore it's not public in nature. So in a sense, this whole area is going to be removed. As a result of the change in the plan configuration, as we just talked about a minute ago here. But again, the intent of, if there's anything that could be salvage. We'll consider that. But this is all coming out. Okay. I'm 128. This is the youth nonfiction area here. And again, this is in the youngest children's room. We're only removing shelving. That is not a original, but everything else will essentially be removed for restoration, then put back. So this, in this instance, we are going to be basically putting back in place. All the middle work here. We're going to be removing the shelving. We're going to be removing the shelving. With exception of any non-original. Mill worker shelving. That wasn't part of the historic fabric. Okay. And then. I will those door with a double door stay. When you're looking at 89. You know, there's the doors there. Those are going to remain to go into the new room. And believe. What was our thoughts on that? Yeah, there's going to remain. Yes. Yeah. They stay. Right. I think some of it is that, you know, they're not going to be able to keep the doors open. They're not going to be able to keep the doors open. They're not going to be able to keep the doors open. And so, you know, keeping the doors could be important just to keep that sense, as opposed to just opening it up all the, you know, But. Yeah. I think it certainly did extend that we're able to do that. And doesn't impede the, the function and flow. The library. We will, we will keep it. I think in some places too, we're actually going to fix the doors open and maybe some places they'll be fixed closed, they'll still be there. They just may be in a whole open position. Yeah. Okay. Next is room 129, which is the head of youth services area. Essentially, this is the kind of children's director's nook. And it's currently not available to the public. But once we do the library over, this will be part of the children's room. And therefore we will cat for this back for public use. And again, in this case, we're only, we're keeping the trim work and millwork that you can see here, but we're going to be taking out a shoving that was not original to the, you know, fabric. So, but the intent is to, is to retain the trim work. And particularly as one sees around things like window openings, you know, areas around the edges and perimeter and the ceiling trim. So that, that is the intent here. It is going to be captured back for public use, which currently does not function that way. Okay. Excuse me. This is a stair C, which is the other stair that is being removed. Again, this is not co-compliant. It's currently not open to the public. And they can't be kept because what it does in the renovation, they don't provide the second means of egress to the third floor, which we have to do for code reasons. So this, this staircase too is coming out. Excuse me. Okay. I'm just going to keep going. Now we're moving up to level two. In the building. So. This area here, this first room. And two to five. This is the head of information. Services. Essentially, this is the staff kitchen, locker room areas. This whole thing is going to be completely reconfigured. So all the millwork is going to be removed, except for the projection window. That views into the barrel vault room that we talked about earlier in the first floor. And that's essentially the, and that is, in this particular instance, this image J. That is the area that is going to be remaining as part of the fabric, but everything else is essentially going to be removed because this whole thing is opening up and changing entirely in this configuration from now. And was this renovated in the 1993 renovations? Is this. Relatively new. I believe so. Josephine, do you have any comments on that? I believe this area was renovated in the nineties. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks so too. Next room two, two, five. This is a set head of branch area. And again, this whole area. Is the millwork is going to be. Reinstalled in place, but there is going to be some areas where we are impacting things because we're removing pieces of. Elements. So that is going to be coming out. So for example, in view L. This area is being impacted as a result as a small zone to two, five a, because this whole space is changing. So some of this millwork is going to be taken out. And then we're going to move on to the next room. And then we're going to move on to the next room. Is the result of that, but things like window trim and all of this, particularly historic areas, those will, those will be kept. All right. Two, two, six. This is a staff lounge area. This is being reconfigured for. That makes a technology specialist for office use. And it will really, it will remove some original detail. As a result of, again, changes in the layout. And then we're going to put in the, to the, the, the, the entire place is. All of that will always, this will be kept and remain in place. So this, this, this area is changing as a result of reconfiguration of this particular office area. In this location. Excuse me. I've done, like window trim all of that. That will be kept. So you do, do you have a floor plan showing that kind of area in the I don't have this right handy here, and if that's something that we need to provide, we can add that information for you. Right now I don't have this available at the moment. I'm happy to provide that. Okay. This next area, room 227, again, this is technology specialist storage is a relatively small area here, again outlined in orange. This does show all over one of the other rooms, excuse me, windows that does view into the barrel vault space from this level. So in this instance, that window will remain. But again, like the lounge space previously, we're gonna lose some of this woodwork because again, this area is being reconfigured. Again, this is not spaces that are public in nature and nor will it be in the renovation. This is all back of house staff in private office areas. So that in some ways is indirectly tied to this, but again, if we share in the future a floor plan that shows the reconfiguration of this, that will make this more evident. Okay, room 228, this is a corridor. Again, this is tech service area. This will become more public because it's gonna connect the quiet reading rooms. I think there's a plan to follow momentary. But anyway, this area here is going to, some more work is going to be impacted as a result of opening this up to connect the areas in this reading room. Some of it will be removed, but however, the vast majority of the middle work will remain in place. Again, I don't know, Josephine, do you wanna elaborate a little bit further on this? Or looking at image 124, which is looking south. The archway around the door and the casework to the right of that will remain on that wall. And then looking straight to the west wall, we're able to retain that door frame around that opening. We will be installing a new door there, door and side light, but we will be able to retain that door trim around that opening, and that's on image 124. Yeah, sorry, here. Yeah, yep. What about the arch doorway in 124, does that stay? Yes, that stays. And what's happening with the lighting in these rooms? Like right now there is a new lighting in here, or will it be the existing kind of light fixtures? No, we have all new lighting. It's all new lighting throughout the entire library. It's also to meet more energy, cozy lighting to lighting fixtures and reduce the demand. So all lighting what's gonna be replaced. So you won't have the hanging fixtures like there are now? No. No. Thanks. And then sort of in the center of this area, of course is the continuation in the room 228A, this is here that is the continuation of the main central staircase in the library. And again, this essentially is gonna look the same. All millwork will remain in place. Once again, this area is restored, so we will look the way it does now. Excuse me. And then as we come up to the right of that staircase in the adult reading room East in 229A, which is shown here again in outlined in orange, this part of the embers room, the North wall, this area here is going to be removed to expand into the wide reading areas. But the rest of the trim work and details are gonna essentially remain as you currently see it now. So I think there's one more plan that may be coming up to it. Okay. Yeah. If you went back to the stairs, will the doors in that area remain? So there's a number of doors in 228A. You're like these doors here. Right. Like a 118 and yeah, 119. So I think, Jessica, are these being kept in kind on a hold open or are the doors themselves being removed? Those on the South side, we had shown removed. I believe there wasn't enough room to keep them on hold opens. Okay. If I remember correctly. Right. So the frame trim around the door openings remains but the physical doors themselves are being removed. Right. So both sets of doors will be removed. Yeah. Because we have to allow the flow of space in this adult reading area to connect. And I think the plan is coming up momentarily. I was gonna show all of us. Will there be any modifications to the staircase? No. Just to the risers and chairs? Yeah. Other than restoring the walls here is again from earlier discussions, but everything is gonna be essentially kept and or put back in place once it's restored. Okay. So new flooring and ceiling. Will the ceiling be changed and high? New ceiling, new lighting, new flooring. But the space defining character is this is gonna remain as you currently see it now but the flooring is gonna change. The height won't change. The height won't change. Nope. Portion of the space remains intact. Okay. And then as we were just touching on a little bit, this is the room to the right of that staircase that we just saw a minute ago and room 229A. Again, there is some modifications as a result of this whole area changing here, but the historic defining character is like the fireplace, the opening surrounds. Of course, the window, trim detail, all of that will be kept in place and or put back if they has to be removed. It has this. And then to the left of that central stair, which is the adult reading room West, and this is 229B, there are some stores, there's other things here. These are all gonna be opening up because we're going to change this whole thing to make this more public in nature. So things like, you know, you can see in terms of those particular areas, most of this millwork is going to be retained and or re-installed in place as a result of this. And of course, things like fireplaces, again, all that is going to be kept. There is some impact resulting in some reconfiguration of areas here that will impact some of the millwork as a result of removal of some small programs because the layout is changing here. But wherever we're not impacting things like that, millwork will be kept in place. So I think this next plan kind of summarizes everything I just talked about in all those rooms, 225, 228, 229, so on and so forth stairs, C2. So here you can see on the left, that's the existing plan. And on the right, the proposed plan. And the main takeaway from all of this is that we essentially, we're bringing back in some ways or opening up the historic aspects of the reading areas here in the center part of the historic library. So all of the spaces now is going to flow a lot better in terms of the whole experience of the patrons, which right now, as you know, is quite chopped up in this current configuration here. And things that are really defining characteristics, like we mentioned, all fireplaces, the central stair area, all the window trims around, all of that is going to be kept and or restored in place. And of course, the accommodation of the new staircase here will have some impact on some of the trim work as a result of the reconfiguration that you particularly see in this area here that results in the change in the layout. Okay, so when you say you'll be opening up to the historic parts, does that mean I'm not actually familiar with what modifications were made in the 90s? Is that, does that mean this was chopped up in plan during the 90s renovation? I could probably clarify this a little bit. I think when I mentioned opening up, I'm simply describing the fact that these spaces here are going to continue to flow into one another that you currently observe now, but the resulting this change area here is a result of being able to open up more of this space here. So in some degree, we're trying to capture the feel, not only just of the restored part, but also trying to make the spaces themselves flow a lot better in relation to one another. So can I just clarify a little bit? So in the plan, the existing plan on the left-hand side of your screen, room 229B, 225A, room 228, stairs C2, none of that is public. That's all the tech services space right now. So that's all gonna be made public space as you move over to the drawing on the right. Room 229A, that's the Amherst room now. We're gonna be changing that over to be a quiet reading room instead of a meeting room. Okay. So 229A currently has that fireplace sort of centered on the east wall and the north wall will now be removed so that it's a different config, just larger configuration slightly changed. Yeah. And you were asking about when the changes were made. I don't know if it was the 90s or the 70s or the 60s, but originally this was all public space. And then during one of the renovations, it got turned into all the tech services stuff. So yeah. Got it. Yeah. And again, to reinforce what Sharon says, the real takeaway from all of this is giving back to the public use of spaces which currently do not function that way. So in the result of opening up things to the public, the things that we are holding onto for the historic fabric absolutely will remain. And in instances where we are obviously impacting things like they mentioned, you just mentioned about this wall being taken out because in some ways this whole room is now expanding quite a bit bigger. Yes, it's true that the disposition of the fireplace in this space changes in proportion, but all the trim work around it remains intact. And again, I know Nate's question is gonna be when you do this, the defining characteristics of mill work as you extend this forward, how does that all work? So we will be carefully working through that. So we try to make this look as seamless as possible once this is restored and redone. Can we just scroll up quickly just to see that image of the Amherst Room just once more? There it is. Okay, thanks. Okay. And then the next space, Room 230, this is essentially gonna become part of the administrative suite. So in this instance again, most of the mill work is gonna be essentially retained in place, there's a small percentage that will be removed. Again, some of it is bookshelf related, but what you see like fireplaces and other instances, window openings, door openings, all of that is going to be kept. And this is part of the administrative suite area. Can I ask about the furniture? There's some pretty nice furniture in that space. Is furniture generally where it exists now going to stay in those spaces going forward? So we, let me pipe in. So will all of the furniture and art and carpets and things like that, statues, everything that's in our Fine Arts Collection will absolutely stay. One of the things that sticks out is the chandelier that's now in special collections. That's gonna be put back into the Goodwin Room where it was originally. I cannot speak to the original locations of things, but everything will definitely be kept and released for people to be able to see as opposed to hidden away in storage. Does that include the two arts and crafts umbrella stands that are mentioned in the Historic Structures Report? I cannot speak to that, I don't know. Are they positioned somewhere? They were mentioned in the Historic Structures Report. There were photographs of them. There are two of them. They're original to the 1920 A building. Are they featured somewhere? Are they going into some kind of protected situation because they're part of the original furniture of the library? I'm just curious. Yeah, so as long as they're in our Fine Arts Collection then yes. So are you proposing a kind of inventory or is the one that already exists? Yeah, there is an inventory that already exists. I don't have it in front of me. Okay. Brings up a good question too. In the interiors when it actually comes to laying out all the furniture, that's another opportunity to work with things that are important from the historic perspective and decide where they should be in the building, which would be a step to really get into and should have probably another committee that will be involved, I assume, in the interiors. Yeah, I think I'm sorry if this is kind of going off topic and people have been weighing in with questions and I've been trying to be a good person and not weigh in because we're on level two and I'm sure that there are two more levels to go. But the interiors of the windows, especially the windows in the dormers where the decorative tracery is and the windows in the children's room area that have this rather sort of decorative, almost curtain-like feature on them on the inside, I'm curious to just, I guess, have your reassurance that they are, nothing is going to change. About those kinds of things that are, yes, part of the exterior but by virtue of being windows, important on the interior as well. You don't have to answer the question now but I'm just trying to get a feel for some of the textures and materials, especially when I'm hearing that things are coming out and then going back and that seems, I mean, the asbestos abatement, I'm sort of sitting here thinking, my God, this is a huge element of this project and it's giving me, it's giving me pause just for all of the things that you are going to have to be dealing with and I'm just thinking of how we're going to feel about those sort of quintessential domestic spaces that Madeleine referred to in her opening remarks and I think some of that comes really from furniture and from the artwork you mentioned, which is obviously really important but also these bookshelves that you're removing. I think some people are going to wonder about that. I think it's okay but I think there may be people, you might get some pushback about some of the book shelving that is coming out rather than, because it might suggest that you're taking out original fabric when you're not. It's just, I just thought I'd throw that in. No, thank you for your feedback. I really appreciate the very thoughtful comments and you're obviously right. I mean, that is, as Ellen mentioned at the outset, this is a very careful, but it is a big undertaking and when we work on historic buildings in the pad, we're well aware of, as we said, our experience in dealing with these kind of challenges and it has to be handled carefully in order to not only address the historic defining characters but of course to make your building safe environmentally. We can't have as best as we can have like that. So we have to do these things in order to make sure that your building is safe for the public and everyone who uses it. So it is a fine dance and we've done this number of cases but every single situation is different and of course, your point is very well taken. We need to pay attention to a lot of this. The one question about the staircase, that's the one that's non-compliant. Do a humongous compliant. Is it SC3? Is that the one that's? It was the, let's go back. It's 127A. Yeah, 127A is one of them and the other one was their STC1. Yeah, I think we pointed them out on here, for example, this one. STC, yeah, one is removed, that's not good. Yes, the two that we point out that we can remove, they're not co-compliant and or they don't get to the levels we need them to get to. In addition to the plan changes that we have to make in order to make a library function and work. But do those elements, do they get put in, if the town agrees or wants to, can those be added to the sistering kind of stash? Or is this some other category of element of furnishing? This is pretty hard when you have to tear out the whole thing. I mean, I suppose if people wanted to save the railings and balusters for something, yes. I don't see where we would use the stair pieces in the sistering idea, particularly specific to this location. Right. I mean, I think things like millwork, paddling, trim, that kind of thing can be res salvaged. But to Jim's point, stairs are very specific in their design other than balustrades and railings. And unless there was something that was being placed, even if you tried to hold on to it, the whole code issue on stairs, steepness and rise in treads, they don't comply. So even if you tried to reuse it, they wouldn't work with modern day stair requirements, because it's too often these are too steep as you probably are well aware of walking up and down those stairs. I'm not trying to press your buttons, Tony. I'm just trying to get an explanation because I'm trying to, as it were, flesh out what the reasoning is behind what's happening. That's all. Thank you very much. You're very thoughtful questions. Okay, let me come back to where we last left off. So I think we went through, yeah, we just ended here with that area. And then we were wrapping up here with the two, three, zero. And then again, here in two, three, zero, A, and this is just, so we're just talking about the staircase a minute ago. So that's the upper part of that stair. So that, again, this is all coming out because again, for all the reason we just said, the stairs being removed because it's not going to comply. And the space layout is changing. Is that wall being removed between the stairs and one, two, 30? I think that's the case. But again, I don't have, sorry, probably don't have the floor climb that shows the change, but I think that's correct. The wall between two, 30 and two, 30, A, that's being removed. Yeah, this wall, yep. Yeah. Yeah, because it's fine again, it's opening up. Okay, and... Sorry, Tony, can you go back to just images of two, 30? Two, 30. This one? Yeah. Yeah. And so that door between two, 30 and two, 30, A, that door frame, is that being repurposed somewhere else with that sort of shouldered architrave that it's kind of a unique, the doorways in here. Well, one of the problems with the existing doors, they're not wide enough to meet code, right? They're not three feet. That's a lot of them are around two, six. I'll see, okay. That's a double door though. Yeah, but each leaf has to be either, one of the two leaves have to be three feet. Three feet, right, can be, yeah. And neither door with currently doesn't. Right, right. And that's not unusual. We run into that all the time in historic buildings. Yeah, yeah. So my question here is on the east wall, you say that most of the stuff will be retained or removed and reinstalled. So that makes me think that the wall between two, 30 and two, 30, A would be, would remain. Is that, am I reading that chart wrong on the top of this slide? So, yeah, 60% will be retained, it says. Well, then 30% would be removed and reinstalled. So that's, you know, 90% would be. I think the clarification, I get what you're getting at, Nate, is it is being removed and reinstalled, but it may not be in the same place because we're clearly going to be shifting, disconfiguring, and again, without having the benefit of the other plan showing what we're doing. It's hard to explain this. So again, if necessary, we can clarify this with showing what's being proposed. Oh, so there's a difference between remained, so, oh, sorry, can you scroll up again? So it says 60% mill work to be retained in place or to be remained, I can't read that. And then 10% to be removed permanently and 30% to be removed and then reinstalled in same place. In same place or place. Okay. Yeah, I think we need to clarify this for you. Well, I mean, I think there's a slide that needs that. I think there's a slide that needs that. The whole wall isn't going. Right, so the whole wall is not going, is what that note is saying. Only a portion of it is. And remember, we had that plan that we were showing exactly where things were and we were asked not to do that because it was too confusing and we understood that. So we peeled it back to try to be as, Sharon told us, take our architects hats off and try to be clear on the concept, right? Is that in this room, in particular on that east wall, 30% of it will be removed and reinstalled. So that's, so it, go ahead, just one. I'm sorry, I think also where some of the confusion is I think we talked potentially about taking what is there and doing what we are doing down below on the first floor is if we could potentially move it to the wall that's staying to the right. Yeah, see here. And I think we might have talked about that in passing and I don't know if that was finalized because we were going to check the mentions on that. I think that's where the hiccup is on this one. Yeah, so this one we're still working, in other words, we're working through this space. And again, for clarity's sake, we can come back to and expound upon this particular room. Just so you all understand and we're on the same page. Okay. I think that we're almost done with level two. Yeah, this so that. So again, the level two, this whole staircase C is again part of the thing. This is the one that is non-compliant. And so this, and it's closed the public and then up to code. So this staircase is being removed. And again, it's resulting in the reconfiguration of this particular area as well. Okay. Now, level three. So this is the, essentially level 301. This is the third floor landing. Again, of that central staircase, the main staircase in the middle. But there is some reconfiguration that results from accommodating accessibility. And some of the millwork in this particular area, will be removed. And some of the areas that are currently store spaces are not publicly accessible. But again, Josephine, do you want to elaborate on this particular area a little bit further? I was muted. Yeah. I don't know if it's something that we can help explain what's going on here. Yeah. We don't have the proposal here, right? We don't. And again, that's probably something we should show. Yeah. It's kind of a tricky configuration. Looking at it left to right would be a little bit easier, I think, but we are trying to keep as much as we can here. We are really reconfiguring this and now it's going to become public space. And so with that reconfiguration, we will have to remove some chair rails and baseboard and things of that nature. But we are retaining as much as we can here as well. But I think this is one of the cases where the proposed layout would be really helpful. Yeah. So we can add a proposed layout just to show you what's really going on here as a result of changing this area. And I think that'll make it clearer. Yeah, that'll be helpful. Thank you. So we'll move on from this. This is now the Goodwin Room 302. This area is essentially going to be fully restored and it will retain all of the detail. And including the fact that we will be restoring a chandelier that was originally believed from research that this was actually hung in this space before it was shifted to another part of your library. So the intent here is to bring that chandelier back into this room and replace these current existing fixtures as well as new lighting. So that actually is going to make it feel, in some ways, more of the original historic fabric as it once was. And currently, this area right now is essentially not really that open to the public, but as a result of the change in the renovation, that too will change. So we'll have the morpheteen for the public as well to enjoy this space, which currently isn't really that accessible. And so flooring doors and the current windows will all remain? I don't know, Josh, can you elaborate on some of the things? I can't speak of the flooring, necessarily the millwork and all of that, trim work will remain, fireplace, et cetera. I'm not sure, is the flooring original to this area or? Yeah, I think we thought it wasn't original, but we could double check. Okay, yeah, so we'll confirm that. But if we have to replace it, I think the idea of the wood flooring is a very nice aspect of this space. So... We certainly will keep it if we can. Yeah, okay. And then room 303, this is again, sort of staff lounge area right now. A lot of these things are, as you can see, are storage spaces and some of it's being used as friend's office. So this will transform into a staff lounge area and there will be some instances where we are gonna be opening up this particular area for the staff. And so as a result of that, some millwork will be removed because we have to open up these spaces to one another as a result of making them staff areas. But again, everything related to window, trim, anything of that nature, that will remain as is. Excuse me, I think we're getting close. Room 303D, again, this is currently going to become the staff locker area. So this whole kind of space here is going to change in terms of its function, but there is very minimal millwork already in this. So for example, areas on the north wall, that millwork is going to, you know, whatever small amount there is there, as you can see right here, this is going to be removed because there is going to be the change of this for locker areas. But things like window trim, all of that that will remain the historic defining characteristics. And then the last thing I'm just gonna simply show, these were earlier renderings, but just to give you a sense of like when we're talking about restoration. So in the barrel ballroom, you know, once we open up this space and of course remove all those bookcases that are currently stuffing up the room, you know, we're gonna be able to bring this whole area back, I think to, you know, a really special feel. And you have to take a little bit artistic license on the rendering. So if you're asking, is that the exact like fixture? No, it's not, but the intent you can see here is that once you bring back the opening up the space and restore the placer work and the trim work and then the opening work, all of this will be refurbished and basically kind of bring it back, you know, in a way to its former grandeur and even things such as the amber's room. You can see here, once you begin to unstuff the spaces and remove things like storage areas and other things. So we will be bringing back, I think, you know, a very sensitive nature of restoration reuse and if cases where we have to trim work, it will all be done in a way that makes it look seamless. So these are just representative of some of the sense of how we're thinking about these historic spaces that we really wanna bring them back to life and make them especially more available, which many of them are, for public and patron enjoyment and use. I think that, and then the last slide here, there was some question relating to what percentage, I'm sorry, it's a little fuzzy right now, what percentage of the spaces are public in nature? So you can see here in the new design, everything that's oriented in yellow tone, all of that is now public in nature. So some spaces that we talked about before that weren't available to the public, particularly in areas like office areas and upper levels, we are bringing them back and making them now available for the public use. So we're greatly enhancing the ability for the patrons to use more of the library and then the areas which are essentially not colored in yellow, these are backup house, private or staff areas which are dedicated for the folks who actually work in the library. But you can see here, this is a very large percentage of the library is being now a brought back or made use for public use. And I think, and I'm not gonna get into this detail, but this Excel spreadsheet, again, it's in the summation here. This is everything I just talked about, but really spelling out everything in detail about each room, the estimated percentage, whether it's restored, replaced, reposition or relocated or if it's being removed. So that summarizes everything today. And this is on top of each of the sheets. So that's what we just, yeah. Yeah, just put it one place. Can you go back to room 158 and 159 on the third floor for a minute, just the. 158, sorry, it lags a little bit. So which rooms did you wanna see? I'm sorry. I think it's the slide down from that. Going this way? Yes, yep. These rooms. Yeah. So this is where the staff lounge will be. Correct, yeah. Right now it's just a store. These are just storage areas as you can see right now. So say I'm like 303A and image 155, there's that door in the wall. Is that remaining or not? Yes, the door will remain. Door will remain. That's like, that's part of the 50% of the woodwork, no work will be retained. Yeah. All right, thanks. Okay. Well, there was a lot to absorb here. So I guess just comments, questions in general. Yeah, I think so. We have the floor plans of the proposed that are available for the level one we've seen. And then I think level two we were kind of wondering what is happening with 225A and 226, right? Yeah. So I don't know if we can describe that or if we should just wait for to be able to see the floor plan once you can share it? I mean, unless Josephine, you want to pull up plans, I don't have access to that. Otherwise, if we can't share it easily, we'll have to have to add some information for your understanding of it. I can pull up and I have the rough model open, we can just go to- Okay, Yvonne, I'll stop sharing. You guys are okay with that. Yeah, I'll stop sharing. And Tony, I did see you had your hand raised, so just keep, you know, if not now, just remember what you wanted to say and we can look at to you. Great. So we were looking at the second floor, right? And that was some of these questions that you had as far as- Great. So this is proposed. Yeah, so I think we did show this area, but I think you had some questions, I believe, in the spaces to the right and to the left of this main area. Is that correct? Just trying to remember which areas we didn't have plans. One of the 225, sorry, you know, where the adult reading room on the north is happening with the head of, you know, that area and the stairs there. Right, so the Amherst room, that's being changed there. I think, did we see it? Yeah. Okay. We saw that. And then adult reading room west. Yeah, we showed that. Yeah. Okay. Let's see, did we, or the other? I think the third floor had a number of spaces that like staff stuff that we were talking about that we didn't show the proposed. I don't know. Justin, you want to look at the third floor for a second because I think it's by that old, the stair that we're moving those rooms right around there. Yeah. Here you go. So that's what you were just asking about before Nate, right? It was 156, 158, 158. Now I can see those rooms are all chopped up. So this whole area there, you can see in the staff break room is opening up to be one continuous space for staff. So that door he was just asking about, I don't. Yeah, that won't, that won't remain in his current location because that space is, yeah. That door is the one that you were asking about, right, Nate? Well, I was asking the one like between the room, say that was visible. So it would have been like where, you know, the section line is now or something, but those would be removed between the rooms. That's correct. Yes. So that will be just removed or breathe somewhere else. It will be removed. It will be removed. Okay. Again, as you know right now, currently all of that space is just one big series of storage rooms and we're putting this all back for staff use on this level, with exception of the, you know, Goodwin room. And I'm just going to point out here since we're on this floor plan, I know that it's hard to talk about this without referring to what we were just looking at a minute ago, but the spare area is real one. This is what Justin was referring to. We have to make some modifications here to bring co-compliance to the top end of the stair. And we're introducing, you know, a new elevator at the back, which has to connect to get to this level in addition to that staircase, ST3, you know, in order to make two ends of egress from this level, which currently doesn't work. So we're bringing up, you know, a new elevator access and this new stair. And you can see it does impact that one corner of the library portion in order to accommodate this. So that was hard to understand that in the plans. I wanted to point out that this new elevator, it's strategically placed to access every floor in the elevator, every floor in the building, which the one that was there did not. Right. Plus being co-compliant on size. As well, yeah. Yeah. So I think that's probably a number of the things that you guys were asking about particularly on this level, which we didn't show you, but this is what's changing here. I think you go to level two on these plans just so we could see again, where the existing stairs are being removed and what is going on. So, right, it's in that area. Right. So that corridor is going to be, 228 will be kind of square in plan, now it's sort of a longer corridor. Just looking at the PNF plans in comparison. And then head of programming, 224A, that's a new room. Right, okay. Yes. So that kind of that wall on the, trying to get my corner directions correct. Planning north is up. On the north wall of the adult reading room, West 229B, that wall is essentially new. It's new. Yeah. And if commissioners want to follow along, I mean, looking at the PNF on page 20, you can see the plan of the existing kind of compare it. I guess we can move on to more questions. Antonia, do you want to? Sure. I guess I had a question about earlier for room 103, that's like pushing the existing panel back. I was wondering if that doorway will be functional or if it's like flushed on the wall, like to the stairway, I guess it's going to be inserted. To the presentation. Yeah. Do you still have that open tunnel? I don't know if you want to. Oh, sorry. You want me to re-share the. I'm not sure if that's the best way or if we just want to use this plan. I think it's the other plan to Josephine. Right. It's existing. Yeah. The PNF. I don't have the same. Tony, can you share again? Do you want me to? No, no. Actually, he should play here. Let me see if I can. You're talking about room 103. Yeah. All right. Let me see if I can retrace that stuff. Okay. Let me see if there was any one second. Of course, I didn't want to interrupt you while you were going. No, I think it's good that we go back to the presentation and just review some of the material. Can you see my screen? Yes. Yeah. So. Or maybe it wasn't 103. Wait. Was it? Was it airing? It was. Maybe. Yeah, I want to review it. 102. No, wait. Go down. Maybe it's 103. Sorry. I wrote 102, but it could not. 103A or? Yeah, 103A, yes. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Okay. I was wondering if the panel on D when that's, I guess, moved back to open up the space, whether that doorway will be functional or whether it's going to be flushed on. Will it be functional, I guess, to get into that new stairway or how? Right. Will it just be kind of a blind archway or? It won't be functional. Okay. And then another question I had, which is not, which I guess is part of the exterior, but kind of relates to the interior, is I know that last meeting, like the Whipple window was a big concern. I was wondering if, like, you know where that will be placed in the interior yet or if that's going to be in the expansion. We had a couple of thoughts. We currently are looking at the first floor reading room as a possible location on the south wall. Yeah, talking about this one, right? Yeah. One of these areas here, the Whipple window. Okay, I guess we're exploring this. Yeah. Thank you. Being into this space. Those were my questions. That's good to know. Thank you. Yeah, that's still being studied. But it will definitely be incorporated into the design somewhere. Yes. And perhaps not as a window, but as an architectural artifact. Could be that too. Yeah, it's possible. That's what we're trying to test through right now. Okay, thank you. We haven't talked about the basement or what you're calling the garden floor. At all, I'm curious to know about the Civil War tablets and what that space looks like inside. What kind of flooring there is. Is there any need for reinforcements because they're so heavy? What kind of lighting there is in that space? Heddy, I don't think we're prepared to talk about that today. I didn't think that was on our agenda. Because that's in the new section. Got it, got it. Okay. Fair enough. And I think the existing basement of the original library is pretty much storage and unfinished in many locations. Really? Yeah, it's really back of house or mechanical areas. Yeah, not for public access at all. Have any of you seen the foundation stone from the Amherst Hotel building that was brought across the street in 1928? Anybody see that? No. Some huge piece of stone that was... Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, so it's cool because that was a building where the library was located until it burnt down. And the Jones people said, we need to bring this foundation stone across to the 1928 building. So our building, our historic building, has the foundation stone from the Amherst Hotel, which was where the library was. And then it has the Whipple window as well. So it's like all along, this is an institution that has sort of valued, literally pulling bits of its past into its present. Kind of interesting. No, that's great. It was very interesting. But I just wondered if it's visible in that area. And now my interest is peaked. Sorry. Mind too many. We'll find out. We'll find out. Yeah, we'll find out. That value made us curious. If anybody knows, it may be George. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Any other questions? No. Let's see. Let me look at my notes here. In Room 129, can we just look there? Sure. Here? Maybe let's see. I think maybe that's photograph 129. Move on. This is the Admin Suite. Yeah, here. So the fireplace, you said that will be retained. And what about the sort of other elements of the fireplace? The sort of hearthstone and just the rest of the surrounds? The kind of stonework here? Yeah, I believe that will be retained. OK. Yeah. And if the flooring has changed, you kind of intend to have something similar to this? I think, yes, if we're able to reuse, or in this case, this is wood floor in this area. If I could just comment about the flooring. So a lot of the library ends will have carpeting, like it does now. And that's for many reasons, one is noise. But where we can, like the trustee's room on the top floor. Yeah, the cutting room. Yeah, the I'm good room. That we're trying to keep intact. So, and then, for instance, the main stair coming in, that has a carpet runner on it. We'll do the same kind of treatment. But with the library, we have to balance the noise issues with the practical issues of wood floor and maintenance and all that stuff. So a lot of the library gets carpet. Right. Just certainly, I think I'm just kind of thinking about how that works with the existing details and kind of whether how it kind of matches or complements the existing interior. I think we install it similar to this. And there's a whole series of interior meetings we've had, selecting carpet colors and that kind of thing. But it's not going to have to match kind of what's there right now, but just a little bit of water. Just to sort of, yeah, not clash. It'll be installed in a similar manner, right? So you're going to be seeing essentially the same amount of wood trim and things you're seeing now. Yeah, thank you. If you go back, Tony, to that view again of that fireplace, I think a question came up about book shelves and something we need to look at as we go along. But in some cases, it appears that the bookshelves might be original and we're built in. This may be one of them. But then if you look to the left, you see bookshelves scattered all over the place. Yeah, they are scattered, yeah. So there will be an intent to, if it's an integral part of, say, a mantle in a fireplace, we would try to keep that. Yeah, to your point, Jim, I mean, here you can see that there's a lot of trim work around this particular set of bookcases, which is matching the mantle place of the fireplace versus these look like definitely after thoughts or bookcases that were not so integral. And so I think we'll be paying attention to things like, if it really is integral to the defining characteristic, then yes, we'll pay attention to that versus some like these, which are not. Pat, do you have a question? I do. I had the same question about this fireplace because I'm familiar with the room. And I think that the bookcases are integral to the original. But I'm also thinking that there's a certain, aside from a historical aspect, there's a certain aesthetic in a room like this to keep the wood floor. Carpenting wouldn't work, in my opinion. And so I appreciate the need for quietude in a library. But I think this is a distinct room that has a history. And there's a painting in there of the founder, the donator of much of the art and his painting, a painting of a portrait of him. And the philanthropy that gave the art to the Jones Museum, the Jones Library, and created the Burnett Gallery, which I'm a member on that committee. So I'm very concerned about the new plans to house that. But I'm very familiar with this room because we, as a Burnett Gallery committee, met here. And it's a room in honor of the person who donated art to the Jones Library that one of the pieces was sold that allowed it to move forward at one point in time. So history is in the architecture and it's in the artifacts. But it's in the history of the library itself. So I just had to speak to that because I think this room, if it could be kept with the original fireplace and the surrounding bookcases and wood floor and, you know, in memory and honor of a person who was instrumental in the history of the Jones Library. Now, thank you very much for those very thoughtful words. I absolutely appreciate your sensitivity to that. And I think that's these volumes of pun intended to support its fabric that particularly is germane to the historic area of this library. So that's very much appreciated your feedback and comments on that. Thank you. Thanks, Pat. I did see in one of the renderings that there was recessed lighting in the ceilings. Is that something you intend to have throughout the building? Or, I mean, with minor exception or what will that be? Yeah, it depends on the area. Yeah. Okay. There's a whole design revolving around lighting that is very detailed that is throughout the whole library. And one of the key things about that is not only, you know, what is appropriate to spaces like this, but also how does it integrate across the entire library? And of course, meet current energy, tone requirements. So the whole lighting issue is its own thing, you know, itself. Okay. Yeah, I think that there are those sort of more domestic spaces in the library currently. I mean, not every room has it, but, you know, including the Admin Suite that, you know, do you have a certain feeling to them that that is significant? And maybe the lighting would impact that as well as, you know, what was Pat was talking about, too, with retaining certain details. I agree. Okay. Well, one point I'd like to make. A lot of the lighting was changed in the renovation in the 90s. So there's very few lights that we have found that original. The ones that, like the chandelier, there's a couple out front that we're absolutely keeping, but there's not a lot, sadly. Yeah. Right. Right, I would just, I think I would expect maybe sort of a warmer tone to some of those more domestic spaces. Very great. Is it possible to look at other buildings by Putnam and Fox to see what was there in other buildings of the same time period in terms of lighting? In terms of lighting. The only one we worked on was the one in Cambridge. They did the police headquarters, which were in the old days and it was a Masonic Hall. But we really found almost not clues. So much of it was low-level lighting on tables and lamps and that sort of thing. So I don't, we could do a little more research, but we don't have any personal clues. I don't think yet to that. Okay. Well, I think at this point, let's see, have we heard from all the commissioners? Nate, do you think we should open it up to public comment or what's the next step here? I mean, yeah, it's up to, as acting as chair, Madeleine, it's not a public hearing. This was a public meeting to review this. Right. You know, if there's any other questions for the commission, you know, I think that I was gonna mention that the Mass Historic had sent a letter stating that, you know, they had noted, you know, reviewed the, it's probably the product notification form that was sent in at the end of October and they had, you know, some comments about removal of the stairwell and, you know, changes to, you know, the interior saying that much of it had been retained and now it's changing. And so I wasn't sure if there's a response to that. Tonight, I mean, I think it was just, it was like kind of an informational letter that they sent in late November. I think we were gonna, Josephine, correct me if I'm wrong. We're going to provide a written response. Josephine? Yeah. I mean, we started that package with responses. Right. And that's, we'll be responding, we'll be sending that along to you. Our focus was to get this together for you guys, what we went over tonight, which was an undertaking. So we do have that other response to MHC started. And actually we've sent a draft to our other consultants, Epsilon. I think Epsilon is reviewing this package as well. Yes. We would send this back, I hope, to MHC if everyone agrees, hopefully clarifying some of their comments which we didn't understand. Yeah. So I think like the master store ignore the removal of the two staircases, not the main stairwell, but the two side stairs and removal of some of the changes into your rooms. And so the commission, tonight, it's where Madeline's been asking and mentioned are the changes enough to really change the character and the defining characteristics? So we did go room by room and then we've got some general discussion about it. And so what, as part of the agenda was a vote. So the commission would take a position on is this keeping the character of the library and would we support an application for tax credits? And so previously the chair had signed a letter saying that this was, everything was good, right? We hadn't really seen the interior. And I think we had requested this meeting in part because of the letter from master store and just because we're getting to the point where we needed to know what is really happening on the interior of the building. And so commissioners are feeling comfortable with that. And I think it'd be good to know and do you need more information? So I think we walked through a lot. I don't know if there's any missing pieces for commissioners or if you feel like you understand it or not. I guess I just want to make sure that everyone is, feels good about what we've seen. How's everyone feeling? I for one feel that the goal is to maintain as much of the historical character of the interior as the exterior. And I think for me the questions were answered. I'm very familiar with the library. And I think the only changes to the historical aspects are ones that need to happen to meet code and accommodate a modern library, but keeping all of the woodwork intact as much as possible is evident. And I think a mighty task actually. Right, I do really appreciate the effort to relocate these certain walls to retain the millwork. And yeah, it's a great effort. There's some spaces are sort of the floor plan is changing. And so that will be a change. To the kind of sequence of spaces, maybe the layout which is notable. But I think, yeah, I do feel quite confident that those sort of character defining features will be retained in this approach. Heddy, do you want to say anything? I think I've said everything I wanted to say based on the report and I look forward to the next phase. Antonia, do you have any comment? Yeah, I think it was really well laid out and I understand the changes that need to happen for code and accessibility reasons. So the library can be used by more people. And yeah, I think the questions I had were answered and appreciate the work that was done for this. Yeah, thank you so much for putting together this presentation. It really did show us, I think quite thoroughly what to expect. And I think there were some questions where it's a question of you still don't know, but like the Wipple window and certain things, certain doorways, et cetera. But I feel quite confident that we could support the application. Should we have a vote, Nate? Yeah, I think it would be good to have a motion and a vote on that. And then if we want, I can communicate. Yeah, I think let's have that. And then if you wanna see any updates or anything, after the discussion, I feel like I had some notes in terms of certain things. We always have another presentation that time goes on with this project. Completely different topic, but the preservation restriction, we reviewed it. And then the library went through the planning board site to interview and there were some minor changes made. And so with everyone here, my thought would be to have another meeting with the commission to review, there's some minor changes to say to the front entry or little things that I was gonna have just previewed again, just so the commission sees it. And so if that's in a month or two, we could have any follow-up with interior if there's updates. And so it would just be kind of a wrap up meeting at this level of design. But that's getting ahead of ourselves. I just wanted to let everyone know that that we probably have one more meeting just to get to see anything that's been updated. But for tonight it would be really just a motion and a vote, people are ready. Nate, would you be sending your comments over because we may be able to, rather than take people's time for another meeting, we may be able to communicate anything you wanna know in an email or photographs or something. Just- Look at the agenda. Yeah. Because- Yes. With the preservation restriction, my only thought is that any changes need to get reviewed by the commission. And so I don't, it's not something I would wanna have done administratively. Okay. So I don't, I guess it's your time as well, but it could be something that's pretty brief if we outline it like, okay, here's what we saw in November and December. And here's what the changes are. If it's, I think it's maybe like three or four things, but just, if it's like some exterior lighting, if it's the entry, if it's the back plaza, just these are the changes from those plan sets to the new one, and it can be a pretty quick review just so that we can have been a record of it. Okay, understood. So Nate, will you guide us in the motion? Yeah, I mean, I think you said it ahead, you're a Madeline that said it, to the point that the character defining features are intact in that, something that the overall character of the library remains and efforts are made to preserve it. I mean, it can be, there's not really, to me, that you would support the letter, the application for tax credits and letter to the state. And so I don't have anything specific it's something along those lines. So I would be willing to propose that wording because that's our intent this evening, now that we're satisfied. Go ahead, Pat. Well, I think Nate kind of, you know, bladed out for us. I'm not sure that I can repeat that. I guess do we support the application or the letter to support the application? We support the letter to the application because of the fact that the history and the architectural history of the library is going to be maintained as best as possible. I second that. I third. We just have to vote, right? Yeah, I don't know if there's any more discussion but then we can have the vote. Okay. Good. Let's see. Hedy, do you support that? Yes. Antonia? Yes. And I do as well. And Robin is recused so. I think we missed four of us. I made the motion but I do support it. Thanks. Good. Yeah, thanks everyone. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you for your wonderful question. Thank you very much. And can you send us the presentation from tonight? So we can go online. That way we can have the information available. Yes, we can take care of that. Yeah, thanks so much. You're welcome. Thank you everyone. Have a good evening everyone. Good night. Good night. Thank you. Good night. All right, thank, I'm back. Thank you. Thank you. I smell a left. Can you turn into a pumpkin? Yeah, right. We lost her but she was, she did a wonderful, wonderful chair. Yeah, I didn't get a chance to thank her. I know. I thought maybe I could get a blind ride. I thought I actually, deleted her from the meeting. It happened so fast but. I think we are a little behind schedule on time but I know that there have been people waiting from Emily Dickinson to discuss their proposed project. They're still there. They're hanging on. We can bring them into the meeting. Sure, can you raise your hand? I know, Jane, I see you. Okay, I'll do this. Hello again. Hi, Jane. Hello. Next to your patients. Oh, Jane's, you're muted. You're muted. Thank you. I know that your meeting is running late so we can be brief but do want to share with you some plans the Emily Dickinson Museum has and for those of you who don't know me, I'm Jane Wald. I'm the executive director of the Emily Dickinson Museum and I want to thank you tonight for giving us a few minutes to describe a reconstruction project that we have scheduled for this year, 2024. And we have a very short presentation that we can share with you if I can share the screen, which I probably am able to do right now. Yes. Thank you. So let me get this set up as a, let me get this set up as a share. Okay, so to begin with, as you're probably aware, the Evergreens is listed on the state and national registers of historic places and it's also a contributing property in the Dickinson National Register Historic District and in the Dickinson Local Historic District. In addition, the structure and the property are protected by a preservation restriction held by the Massachusetts Historical Commission. We've also received in the past some federal funding that involves the National Park Service and the Secretary, the Department of the Interior. So our course of historic approvals really begins here and then it continues to the Local Historic District Commission and then moves on to the Massachusetts Historical Commission on its own authority and as the holder of our preservation restriction and as the State Historic Preservation Office designated by the Secretary of the Interior and the National Park Service. So let me move along just a bit here with our, here we go. So our project really is, our intention is to reconstruct the 19th century carriage house seen here in this roughly 1880 photograph. We want at first to use this structure as a visitor center and a museum shop in order to remove functions from the rear addition of the homestead so that we can restore that section of the homestead. So at first it'll be kind of a swing space and then ultimately the purpose of this space is to serve as a program and education space. So with the various designations and protections given to the evergreens, we plan of course to follow the guidance of the Secretary of the Interior and its standards for reconstruction. And I can go into a few of these points that are included in those guidelines but in the, and you can tell me if you'd like me, if you'd like to hear them, but in the interest of time, I'm happy to just sort of move on with the presentation to show you, to illustrate what it is that we intend to do. So first of all, we start with a documentation about the carriage house. This image comes from an 1886 lithograph, what's called the bird's eye view of Amherst by Lucien Burley. And here, I don't know if you can see my cursor on screen, but here you see the evergreens and its carriage house in a sort of a kind of an artistic license rendering. But what this does tell you is that there's this central entrance to the carriage house and the suggestion of vertical siding here. Then there's this photograph from around 1875. It's certainly it post-dates the construction of the First Congregational Church in 1867 and its parish house here that came slightly after the construction of the church. But zooming in, you can see, whoops, sorry. Zooming in, you can see on the right as close as we can get to sort of a full image of the carriage house itself. And from this, you can discern a couple of things. One is what looks like kind of a paint treatment or a different pigmentation of the architectural details of the gable ends. Then another, we have our own in our own collection. We have a few photographs of this carriage house from around the mid 1930s or so, but obviously, you know, vines have started to take hold. It's probably not in the greatest condition and the structure was either demolished or just fell down in the 1950s. So 1950s is sort of the end date of the structure. Here's a Sandboard Insurance Company map from 1910. So on the left, you see sort of the general geographic, locational context of the evergreens and the carriage house. On the right, you see more of a detail. And so, you know, reading the codes for these insurance maps, yellow indicates a wood frame building. And you know, you can see in the larger view that red indicates brick and blue indicates some kind of stone building material. On the carriage house, on the right-hand side, you can see the number two and that indicates the number of floors. And there's a little mark over on the extreme right of the carriage house, which turns out to be a little circle and the circle indicates that it had a metal roof. And you can see that also on the plan for the evergreens and its metal roofing material. So then, so apart from that documentation, there's also, you know, the existing GIS map of the evergreens in this... So this is, you know, contemporary images for now. The driveway you see there is horribly out of context. I mean, it's just really not the way it exists. But the point here, I guess, is to show you, in relationship to the Sandborn Insurance Maps, what is the proposed site of the reconstructed carriage house. And then we have some existing conditions. If you can see my cursor, the location of the carriage, the site location of the carriage house and its sort of archeological features are right here, just on the north side of the path in what looks like a pretty leafy and sort of depressed area. And then on the right, this is a view from the perspective of the homestead looking west at the evergreens. And the carriage house at that would have completely obscured the shed here, which is an addition on the north side of the Italianate evergreens. So here we get into what the architects are planning. So this is a site plan of the driveway configuration, the path between the homestead and the evergreens that was recently reconstructed just in the last two or three years and the proposed location of the carriage house itself. So I think at this point, I'd like to invite my colleague, Shanti Anderhagen, who is the principal of preservation strategies, which has been for the last few years kind of the preservation project manager for projects at the Emily Dickinson Museum. And I think she will help us to understand what the design intent of this reconstruction is. And so Shanti, can I, you just let me know when you'd like me to advance the slides. Sure, okay. Well, thanks, Jane. Thank you all for waiting through your previous application to hear about this. What I think is pretty exciting project. You all know that it's a big deal to add a building to a historic district, to a historic property, especially one of the stature of the Emily Dickinson Museum with both Emily's homestead and Austin's house, the evergreens. So this is a process that's been very carefully considered, I would say, by the museum. Jane, let's move to the next slide. And so the architectural firm that the museum is working with is EDM Studio in Unionville, Connecticut. And we have worked through this design proposal pretty carefully because as Jane mentioned, we have some information about the historic carriage house, but not a huge amount of information. And we have done a lot of digging. A lot of people have done a lot of digging to try to find physical and archival documentation about this building. So you've seen much of it. There's not a huge amount more. But from what we know, we certainly have been able to confirm, extrapolate that this was a gable end building. So you'll see that in this design. We believe that through renderings and kind of close looking at the evidence we have that it was documentary evidence, probably a board-sided outbuilding. And so you see that rendered here. In terms of thinking about windows, outbuildings would have likely had some, not a huge number. So those have been introduced quite selectively on the side elevations and at the rear roof in a dharma that will have awning windows. Interestingly, we work very hard on the windows. It was hard to figure out how to get the right configuration because one of the goals of this reconstruction is to make it a very sustainable and hopefully passive house certified building. And so that meant windows that are pretty airtight. And so replicating identically, historic windows was making it nearly impossible, in fact, impossible to get that level of sustainability. And the plan that we have developed, I think is quite creative and fits very well with the Secretary of the Interior Standards for Reconstruction. We are going to have a large glass that has at the interior and at the exterior the historic storm wooden storm windows. So the appearance will be quite similar to the storm windows that are in select locations on the evergreen. So the appearance will be a six over six storm window. And I think it will be really effective and looking as it would have historically. We are going to use a number of modern materials, which is again, allowed by the Secretary of the Interior Standards for Reconstruction. What the standards are really after is the appearance of the historic building, but there is an allowance in the standards for using modern materials. And this building will feature a number of those, likely possibly wood siding, but we're looking at an alternative called Boral, which is a very good modern material in terms of sustainability and maintenance long-term. Standing Seam Roof, which is a traditional application for buildings in New England. And as I said, described the windows at the front entry, there will be doors that open and close. So the appearance of barn doors when the building is closed and then opening to these glass doors that will again be quite weathertight and render the building, we hope, passive house. Very minimal foundation exposure. It is a poured concrete slab, but I think probably no more than eight inches, possibly six inches, right at pretty much that grade. So that's pretty much the design, very simple building. Colors will be in concert with the Evergreens. Jane, have I missed anything important about the design? I think those are the essential details, yes. So you see the elevation, some of the design details, especially the windows, where here we're intending to replicate another window style from the west side of the Evergreens as well as this six over six sort of single plain storm window. And Shanti's mentioned that our desire for the materials to render it a passive house, a certified passive house, if we can achieve that. I think next would be just kind of something a little bit more artistic. If you can see here, this is the current view from Main Street, kind of looking up the driveway and toward the Evergreens. And the architects rendering of what is proposed for the reconstruction of the carriage house appears to be something more like this with compatibility of materials and colors and so forth. So, not wanting to take too much of your time tonight, we can just call it here and ask, request your questions if there's anything we can clarify for you. I should say that one of our goals, one of our hopes in bringing this plan to you is to ask you for an endorsement, a letter that can go to the Massachusetts Historical Commission suggesting that this project meets with your approval. Okay. If folks have questions. I had a question. I think it's more about the drawing than anything else. The lines that are coming down, vertical lines that are registering as blue lines, is that just a way to express the vertical siding on the building? Can you go back to that drawing to the elevations please? Cause I had another comment. These lines, the vertical lines, Heddy? Yeah. Yeah, it's meant, I think essentially it's gonna be board siding. So this is how the architects are rendering it. And I should mention, I think the elevation should show that the windows have divided lights. They won't be true divided. Certainly they'll be, well, they'll likely be simulated. They may be true divided if we reproduce the storm windows identically. But those will be fixed on the building. So the building won't actually have what it appears here, which is plate glass that's the exterior appearance. That's the interior window, but there will be an exterior, exteriorly applied storm that will have divided lights. Thank you. Yeah, sorry. Other questions? I had a question. In the sandborn map, the way it showed the roof, it didn't show that in a later sandborn map. And so sometimes when they would show that it meant I thought it would mean a hip roof, or like a four square roof, not a gable. And so has there been any consideration for that that the roof when it may have changed or is it hard to say? Well, the photographs that we have all show a gable end. We saw that too. I mean, we looked at the 1910 and the 1916, but there's just no evidence that we have found that this was ever anything but a gable end building. Yeah, and why you were talking, I looked at the sandborn maps and looked at some other buildings in town that I know are gable end and they showed the same kind of crosshatch in the roof. So I don't, I don't, it was interesting. I was just trying to figure out what that could mean, but. That for some reason, I thought maybe it was an indication for an outbuilding, but. Yeah, it's not consistently applied. No. Okay, other comments? Just seeing the next step. Yeah, Nate, my only thought about recommend a letter of recommendation for MHC is I'd need to recuse myself again. We have enough people that we won't have a forum vote if we vote without Madeleine, right? And me. Yeah. You know, this isn't imminent. Is it Jane? I mean, it could be something that the commission, I mean, could have it on a future agenda just to get a vote in a letter of recommendation. Is that? Yeah, I, you know, I think our sequence of steps now is next to make a presentation to the local historic district commission. And with that, then to apply immediately to the state historical commission. So that's, that's our sequence. But if the, is the, is the local historic district commission meeting schedule known? No, no, they, you know, we have to hold a hearing within so many days. So if we have an application received, you know, it'd probably be sometime in like mid to late February would be, you know, they're trying to meet at the end of January. So, you know, it's like really as needed right now. We try to have a standing meeting, but, you know, if an application isn't in, sometimes they delay it. So, you know, yeah. Yeah, we've wanted to be certain of our site plan before going forward to the local historic district commission. And I think we're pretty much, I think we're pretty much there now. So we'll get that wheel in motion. And I do think that gives the historical commission some time, you know, for another meeting with a quorum. Yeah, we can. And just like we did with the Jones library, we can make sure that Madeline's there to, as vice chair to take the helm. Yeah. So does that mean we should come back to you when Madeline is here? So we can share information with Madeline? Yeah, let's show she should be here for the, well, I mean, she could also just watch this. Yeah, I think she could watch this. And then if it's on the next agenda she can attend and it would just be, I don't think Jane, I don't think you or someone has to be here. I think we could just have it as an agenda item. And if you'd like to be, you could, but I don't think we need another presentation. It would just be, you know, a motion and a vote. Yeah. Yeah, we just, I think we'd be favorable to it. It's just a question of having an authentic vote. Well, they'll put a good plan then. Okay, well, thank you. Thank you for hanging in there with us for a long time. Yeah, thank you for a good presentation. I think it will be in addition to that property. Thanks. Thank you. Right, we'll see you next time. We'll be in touch. All right, very good. Thank you. Thanks. Okay. Moving along here, we have public comment now. So if there's anyone in the public who feels the need to provide a comment at this point, you may raise your hand. There's a, you know, five attendees. I don't see any hands raised. Yep. Seeing no hands raised. I will move to unanticipated items, which I have none. I'm going to have an unanticipated item. Okay. I think the last thing that we need to do is set a date for our next meeting before we adjourn. Oh yeah, sorry. Just one unanticipated. Oh, okay. 45 and 55 South Pleasant Street. I'm still trying to get a site visit. And so I'll email the commission probably this week to see if there's times when we could get into those buildings. Okay. Looking at Mondays still. Fifth would be roughly a month from now. Yep. Any objections there? No. It's good for me. Okay. Does anyone have, I'm going to have to ask Madeleine too. Does anyone have any objections to the 12th? No. Okay. So hold those for now. And I will get back to you on which day, it'll be, is that work for you, Nate? Yes. Yeah. I was trying to look at my calendar quickly. Let me just hold it up. Generally Mondays are good for me. So I don't slow to load right now. Yeah, that looks good. The fifth is good. Okay. What about the 12th? I just want to check with Madeleine and she's not here. So. Yep. 12th is good as well. Okay. Great. So I will get back to you guys hopefully within the day. And with that, I think that, do you have a comment, Hedy? No. No. Just to say thank you. Thank you, everyone. Yes. Good meeting, everyone. Thank you. Yep. So 9.24, we are adjourned and we'll see you in February. Thanks, everybody. Thanks, everyone. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.