 You just don't get it. I could serve Earth from some alien attack I could pretend my life had meaning. Meaningless objects can't give meaning or purpose to other meaningless objects. Meaning and purpose. Ha ha. It would only be in your head, just like a god. It doesn't exist. There is no free will love purpose meaning or reason to live. I guess when I think about it, you're right. Love is just a result of hormones in our brains and all other actions are determined by our brain. I guess everything is meaningless. Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the Procrastinators podcast. I am the best guy ever leader of a tribe called Quest. Welcome to the podcast with Digibro. Heyyyy I believe in nothing. Ben St is here. Why even bother introducing me? It's not going to matter. Doesn't make a difference. Speaking of which, Munchie wears tiny hats. I'm wandering through the savannah, I'm losing all hope. Wait, is that a vessel of HIV-positive? Oh. Nope. Good. And, and, and Hippocrite, and Hippocrite. Uh, I, you know, I have a Patreon, but it just doesn't matter. But it would be nice if it would be nice if some coins fell in, but you know, it's pointless overall. We're all gonna die in the universe and you know, but you know, patreon.com slash my wrists. But yeah, that's the one. Pleasure to be one measly bitcoin per month on Patreon and uh- A bitcoin's worth like $67 or something. Dude, I thought it was worth like hundreds. You can't buy a solar with a bitcoin, you can only buy a car or maybe a, uh, HIV-positive blood vessel in the Samaritan desert. Oh, this, I like where this meme is going, HIV. Oh, what a good meme. I like HIV. So, so everybody- He never heard that one before. Let's get right down to it. We're talking about how, uh, nihilism. Nothing matters, nothing matters. I'm just gonna go, I'm just gonna go right out on record and say that it's true and there's no room for argument on this, on this topic. Wait, well, okay. No, Ben, I don't know what nihilism is. Nate, is there any way you have me know what nihilism is? I didn't prepare this podcast at all, please. I'm rubbing my chakra nodes at such high speed together to elicit an answer from the cosmos. And I'm getting something from, from UrbanDictionary.com slash go. It's, uh, nihilism. Definition. It's useless to define it. Oh, they got, oh, okay. Oh, what a good one. There's a really long one. I know. There's a really long one, but I'll just read like the beginning of it. Okay, nihilism. A philosophy based on extreme skepticism in its most basic form before it was clouded by- Oh, god, fuck this. I was going downhill. Yes, I have a pretty high IQ to be a nihilist. It says in parentheses, before it was clouded by ideas involving politics, social rhetoric, sex, drugs, rock and roll, et cetera. Oh, my god. All right, all right. Which we can refer to as epistemological nihilism. Okay, that's fair, because epistemology is about existence. Well, that's bullshit, because now he's defining nihilism as just one kind of nihilism. What about the other kinds? Well, okay, the next part is simply denies the possibility of knowledge of truth, which I think is relatively succinct. Okay, all right, sure. The Catholic Church has really gone downhill ever since Pope Urban made his own dictionary. It's true, it's true. Hey, before we get into any of the discussion, we should probably have a blanket statement for what each of us are. Like, there's optimists, there's realists, there's pragmatists, there's dentists, there's abolitionists, there's Marxists, or even the dreaded Beatlejuice, which is a spiritual anomaly, and they're training the dark arts of spookerati and ghoul jitsu. I'm a dentist, and that I will put dents in your fucking skull, bitch. Oh, shit, dude. That's awesome. That's sick. Ben, what are you, how would you define yourself in this way? I guess I'm a nihilist, I guess I'm a nihilist, and I believe in nothing, and I'm real cool. Yeah, you can say I'm a nihilist. I'm vaping and tilting my fedora in my sick flame print Hawaiian shirt over here. Fedora tipping is for atheists. Us proud nihilists are more of the clusterpunk variety. We don't believe in fashion or anything from that matter. Let me tell you how much of a nihilist I am. I was torn, I was torn on, you know, you can be a religious guy, and that sucks, and you can be an atheist, and that sucks too. Because like, as spirit science teaches us, you don't pick just one, you can't pick being an atheist or being religious, don't restrict yourself. This is just boxes of belief, and you're not supposed to be limited to one. But then there's the middle ground, there's the like, oh well who fucking knows, being agnostic, but that wasn't good enough for me. I needed to go one step further. So I dug a little deeping, and I discovered something that's even more nihilistic than all three of those, which is a theological non-cognitivist. Which is what I am. Okay, define that. Okay, agnosticism says that we cannot know for sure whether there is a God or not. Theological non-cognitivism is the statement that the question of whether or not God exists is ill-formed and does not have any meaning. The concept of God is ill-defined in language to the point that even asking the question of whether he exists is not actually asking anything at all, and therefore there is no question. Well, I'm with you on there. That's the level of nihilism you all are dealing with right here. Yeah, I guess so. It depends on what version of God you mean, I guess. Some people believe it's like a literal entity. Yeah, I guess you would have to rigorously define your terms in order to ask the question in the first place. But the point is that it's not well-defined on a broad enough level. Oh boy, I'm reading the definition of nihilism on Wikipedia, getting so excited. See, there's different types. Existential nihilism means that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value. Obviously true. Moral nihilists assert that there is no inherent morality and accepted moral values are abstractly contrived. Even more obvious. But this is my favorite. Nihilism may also take epistemological, ontological, or metaphysical forms, meaning respectively that in some aspect knowledge is not possible or reality does not actually exist. Hell yeah. The first one is true. Oh, that's the real, that's the core nihilism. The second one is not true. Well, yeah, okay, we'll see. Incidentally, I would define a lot of those just aren't easily applied. Hey everyone, I just solved the existence. I just solved the riddle of existence right here for you. I laid it all out. There's the answer. Because I just picked which nihilisms are true and which nihilisms are false and there's no room for debate. Dude, my favorite thing about this is that the little box on the side on Wikipedia is part of a series on certainty. Something about seeing these incredibly large concepts, like just thrown around, you know, I love it. I'm a label nihilist in that I don't believe labels are important and I don't care to know what they mean, so I will just make one up. How will you tell your fluff or not are from your mayonnaise without these labels? You're fucked. I just look at them and I see. When you're a young restaurateur and you don't label your fucking food you're gonna go belly up quick before that little brrrr Scottish boy comes in and he slaps you by the ear. Well here, when I was younger, I used to define myself as a hedonist and I still do to some degree, which is a hedonist is just one who believes the purpose of life is divine by obtaining pleasure and positive affirmation in this world. And I still to a large extent think that's true because the only concrete system we have to operate along is positive and negative feedback as perceived by our brain. So in a sense I still sort of agree with that but I would call myself sort of like a pragmatic hedonist and of course nihilist is a... That's the funny thing about all these terms is that whether or not they contradict each other is so vague because I would say the idea that there's no objective moral value it's like that seems obvious but at the same time it's very easy to find and describe a functional moral value. To me, morality is obviously like anything that brings life is good and brings death is bad. But then of course cancer is technically life so you gotta counteract it. Sure most people would agree with that but that doesn't make it objective in any sense. Cancer is literally like just mutants and I don't like X-Men. Sells are alive. I don't like X-Men. I think X-Men should die. If something promotes death or marvels in the McUniverse then it's objectively bad in my moral code. I guess to ask Nate about his pragmatic hedonism do you think that it is in any way contradictory of being nihilistic? Do you think that there is inherently value in being hedonistic or do you think it's more like you appreciate that in this... but it doesn't inherently have meaning? I'm sort of jacking myself off a little bit by using the term like pragmatic hedonism. We know. By the way, this whole thing is fucking jack us off with big fancy words to make or something. The fact that we're even using these... It's really annoying me because like it's saying oh yeah this has no meaning. Nothing has meaning. There you go. That's nihilism. But yeah, but like there's no different... like everything is... we ascribe things to everything. There is nothing inherent. Inherency doesn't exist. That's nihilism. I know that we're all on board with that. But the fact that there's so many different types is like... it's like no shit. No shit that there doesn't have inherency in various different aspects of the universe. To answer Digi's question though, the actual definition I think that makes more sense is it's like this, whatever, pragmatic hedonism is just basically humanism. So it's like is human... like what is the... does that conflict with nihilism? And I would argue absolutely not because my approach stems all from... at least you know I think people try to say this I try to start with what seems to be the truth and then try to from that foundation of things that as far as I can tell are true try to get to like the the philosophy that seems like it'll most get things the way I want them to go. Now when you say true, you mean true like observable truth. Not like a... Because there is no other kind that we have. There is no objective. There is no truth with a capital T. Fucking observable truth is as good as truth. So I don't see why. You know that thing where like you said oh yeah you can never actually touch anything because your atoms are like pushing against the atoms of a thing. They don't actually touch you know. There's no reason for that knowledge to... Yeah it's like you know what I mean. I know you guys are helpful. There is a reason for that knowledge to exist and it's simply because without it... To make you feel smart. Well without it we have like okay if you're a religious person then everything we're saying is blasphemy. You know like just to merely raise these ideas and like it's to make people understand that they're like you believing in God doesn't make you right. So you can feel smarter for not believing in God. Well so you can feel sad for not believing in God. So you cannot be killed for not believing in God. It's to bust out all this science. In casual conversation it makes you an asshole. You know like to just say this stuff apropos of nothing. Yeah if you're like oh you don't really... If you're like oh I'm touching you and someone's like oh you don't really touching anything. It's like a fuck you you know. But like if you're trying to explain this to someone so that they can wrap their head around the idea that you know there is no absolute truth in the universe therefore we cannot have a religious society because it's based in nothing. I guess I do see the purpose of nihilism to come up. No. No in general just like for once. Like every teenager should have a little pamphlet and says nothing exists you fucking idiot. And then they read it and they're like okay they never have to talk about it again but now they know and then they can do real human being things. There's only a certain degree of like practical application that this knowledge has on your life because like you're still going to basically live everything the same way. Even if you're somebody like me who doesn't believe that like consciousness or free will are real like you still operate in basically the exact same way and it changes nothing about your day-to-day life. That's why it's so funny to me that there's like 80 terms you know that's why it's hilarious. I'm a fucking din of lions. I'm surrounded by fucking madousas and ghouls and fucking monsters. I am 100% an optimist and I will... I'm an optimist that is not... I'm gonna fight you on this Nate. Consciousness is the only thing that is real. You know that is true. I wouldn't say that consciousness isn't real but I would argue that it's very different from the way it's generally perceived. Because everything in the world we experience secondhand but our consciousness and our experiences they are the only thing that is objectively observable and like truth with a capital T exist in my humble... in this faggot's humble opinion. Well then you're not nihilistic anymore, Ben. You believe in an objective thing. Yeah, yeah, well okay, yeah, that's what I said. That's where I said that ontological nihilism is clearly not true because we can fuck there are fucking things we can... there are things that we can observe are true. What if they're all a simulation? But the mind experiencing that simulation can't also be a simulation. I think, okay, that's a fair point. And to just cloudy the waters as much as possible at the very beginning of this discussion before we go any further. I just want to explain to anyone who doesn't know of the simulation theory that it is entirely possible that the entire universe that you live in, listener right now, is in complete fabrication because think about it. There's no, like, even if that is true, that has no bearing on you whatsoever. None of this affects anything. To even talk about nihilism at all is like the most privileged conversation you can possibly have. It is the realm of, we have accomplished our base needs so well that now we can just think about concepts that mean nothing. It is really funny. No matter how unreal, no matter how much of a simulation the world is, if I cut myself right now, it's gonna hurt and I'll need a Band-Aid. It doesn't matter how unreal it is. It could matter though. It could matter. Let hippo finish this. It fucking could matter. I would argue that that knowledge, just like the whole thing about how, like, pushing your finger against your other finger, technically no matter is touching any other matter. But then again, what exactly is matter? Is it the potential cloud of electrons swirling around? What even the fuck is that shit? We don't know. I just wanted to say that I thought it was really funny that nihilism, like nihilists, have the least reason to discuss nihilism because of how pointless it is to discuss nihilism because they're nihilists. And yet, the Wikipedia article is huge and there's so many different types. Checkmate nihilists. Go look at the Christianity Wikipedia page though. I bet it dwarfs this. You mean the Bible? Oh my gosh. God's been editing that shit since 6,000 BC though. I guess it can be funny to speculate on stuff like that, I guess. I would hear Munchie's position because it sounds like he's coming from a different position than a lot of us in this. Oh, oh, oh, completely. I think you basically have to be retarded and like low functioning, like you don't have brain cells like an extra chromosome. Hey man, I went to college. You have to go to college to be this dumb to get to nihilism. Exactly. As Plankton famously said in SpongeBob the Musical, I went to college so you know it's clever. Synicism and nihilism are just like coping methods for people who have an Hercules, the snake of depression in their crib like I did when I was a wee boy. Synicism doesn't have to be linked to nihilism. I would just want to, Munchie, I think you'd appreciate this. My favorite explanation of nihilism ever was a wholesome meme that Jesse posted one time. Where on the left it was how people think nihilists are and it was a guy like crying in the rain and going, nothing matters. It was a picture of the little rad kid from the 90s. Yeah, rad 90s dude on a surfboard thumbs up and he's like, nothing matters. Yeah, and that's how I feel all the time. Like to me it's the most, it is optimism, is nihilism, is to be like, oh yeah, none of this shit actually matters. Sick. And I really want to reiterate that like the foundation of this whole thing, and I generally agree with that almost entirely, I think we might use different words but I think all of us agree on things, probably the vast majority of it, except maybe Munchie. But like, all this comes from a foundation of observed truths that I have then been forced to construct a worldview from. So I'm just trying to be as accurate as possible and I'm generally also a pretty positive person. So even though I think that like the universe is doomed and that there's like no hope of anything that's in it right now surviving in a few billion years and therefore my existence is objectively meaningless and pointless, like that doesn't matter. I mean maybe we'll just make, you know. Well, yeah. But you describe meaning to things by being alive. Yeah, yeah, I mean to say that it's meaningless is to like, is to place it within a framework of like, of thing of value. It's just objectively meaningless but it's meaningful within the subjective experience. And I do value the subjective experience. Well, here's the, well, here's the, like, yeah, like for something to matter, like what does it mean for something to matter? And it's like, well, that means that like someone cares about it. So it's like, so if you care about something, then it matters. But see, I wouldn't, I don't quite agree with that. I do believe that consciousness is a valuable thing and worth, you know, like respecting and protecting. But like, I don't know if like human, like if there's, if it all ends one day, then that all was cool for the people who experienced it. But there was no real point to it. Well, no, no, no, you're missing, you're missing the point because the point is that like, you're saying, oh, it doesn't matter because in the end it will all go away. And like, that's fine. But like, it doesn't, there's, there's no objective standard for whether things matter that you can compare to. Whether something matters or not is a matter of opinion. You know? The universe does not work on a scale of is it worth it or not. It just exists and it is. And eventually it will die. I make it my goal to care about the universe so that it does matter. Yeah. I want to put it okay. I think that, okay, yeah. Like, the, like, the nothing matters. Like that's like, that like epic, like, like law sick, skill streak is, you know, nice and whatever. However, I like it when things are, I like it when I care about things. I like it when things matter. And when things matter, I don't necessarily, like, I, of course, I, like, I prepare for the worst and hope for the best. I know that nothing actually matters. And I know that there is no real and like, you know, tangible, like spirit or ghost or anything. But you know, I just like it when I prescribe mean things because I'm a human and I like to experience. That's the best part is that for something, it doesn't take anything. All it takes for something to matter is that you care about it and then it matters. Yeah, exactly. I think the main thing that this is all like based on is that when you're a kid, you don't understand that things might not matter because you think the universe is centered around you. Everybody's talking to you. You're the main character. Which odor are you basically is? Yeah, it is. Sort of. I mean, when you're a kid, that's what you think. Only for Munchie, though. Only for Munchie. Yeah, true. But then like, as you get a bit older, you realize that you're just one of many human beings and you're not actually that special. And you think, oh, maybe nothing matters and you learn to be a nihilist. But then I think it's sort of like a maturing of that idea in your brain that makes you... Once you think that nothing matters, then you can care about things because there's nothing in your brain telling you, oh, you should be doing this because other people say that you should do it or your parents or some other higher power or there's no rules in the universe, so you feel better. And it's really just like a transitioning period away from thinking that things matter in terms of stuff that you don't like. Parents telling you to go to college and you don't want to go, but you think you have to because it matters. And once you realize that it doesn't, then you can care about real things. I don't know why I'm going with that. Nothing matters in that context. The question of things don't matter, so why would I go to college? That's where the pragmatic side of this comes in because there's no point. If nothing matters, why don't I just lay down and die? That's the middle point. What I was trying to get at is the middle point is why don't I just kill myself? I mean, some people do that, but some people don't. And parents say go to college and you think that matters intrinsically and it's like the thing. You realize that nothing matters, but then you may come to think, I want to go to college anyway because I think it matters. That's a good point. It's like there's an intrinsic truth being told to us and I think probably all of us, except maybe Munch, when we were young, certainly got fed the college will be the answer to all your problems in life. No, I got that too. It certainly can help in some ways, but we have all grown up and learned that college is in fact not actually a magical solution to all your problems, economic and otherwise in life. In fact, it's a magical problem that will ruin your life. I am currently saddled with quite a bit of fucking debt that I'm slowly working my way out of and in fact I'm not too far away from, but it has been a burden on me for years. My goal in life now is just to quickly get away from the stuff that I've been saddled with. You don't have to pay off that debt because when your parents die, they'll have to pay all of their money and so their money is basically your money. Well, my parents are going to live for at least a while longer. I don't want to have to pay a student loan every month. I was just quoting Ben's argument for why he still has to student loans. I'd like to distance myself from that quote as much as possible. Actually. So you've taken it back now? I should stop explaining to people that this is Ben's life. I felt so shitty as soon as that came out of my mouth. I was like, oh God, no. Come on. That's an appropriate feeling to have. It's one of my favorite things anyone's ever said to be perfectly honest. It's very Ben. Ben's saying, you know, a stitches head out of the dumpster he's currently in just spouts off a one-liner like that. I hate you. I hate you. That's all I have to say. Look, I completely forgot. I'm texting our dear mother with this inspiration, yes. So time. Time's not real, right? Hang on. I saw Gun Buster. Well, it's like another dimension, right? It's not that it's not real. It's real because we can come up with a definition of what it means when we talk about time. I spent a long time thinking that time was in fact not real and it was just a way for it like this stuff was this way at one point and then things move and now they're this way. It turns out that is in fact not true because time is a measurable phenomenon in the universe that could be accounted for. Time is like something that's stuff in the universe experiences but it's not like it's there's like an outside of time, right? What are you guys talking about? Is it time obviously exists? Is it or is it not true that all time exists at once? Like all of the time all of the time of the universe's existence observable from the outside That's a fucked up question because you can't say that it all exists at once because by saying at once you're referencing the concept of time. Shit. How can we get away? Is there a time when time began? I think they're probably what? 8.50pm. You know what? Does the concept of beginning exist outside of what we I don't know. Does it matter at all? I feel like I should be the expert on this question because I have like a physics degree but I really don't fucking know what to say I fucking have it I fucking have it that time has just started before that that was just like a memory we just thought that all of our entire lives just happened and it started now What you're referring to is a very common I'm just trying to get at that the end of the universe is already when it happens it will always be in the now kind of like what CGP Grey was saying about how you don't die in the future you always die right now it's just not necessarily that isn't quite accurate it's not quite accurate to say that it's just that we use the word future to mean a thing we know the future doesn't exist because it can never exist this is all some slippery language this is all some slippery language shenanigans I'm just saying that the universe has already ended like it's already there that's not true but it's not here now it's in the future it's in the future there's time between now and then in this moment that I'm speaking did you are you just talking about like the time is deterministic that's the word I'm looking for maybe the universe is fully deterministic and the end is already written into the beginning it's all in a set path actually you know what that's a great topic to bring up because I literally believe that there is no reason to not think that the universe is 100% deterministic because the only way that you could object to that is to argue that free will exists in some way that the age is within the universe that argument makes no sense at all the existence of free will makes no sense exactly no you don't have to argue for free will to argue against determinism because there could still be randomness there could still be randomness that's true but the only way you can make that argument is that you have to say that there is some force that acts on the universe outside of just physics no that's not true because otherwise everything is random just be random why not but why would they randomness isn't actually real as I understand it is there any evidence for randomness yes what is the evidence for randomness what I'm saying is that there are only the types of forces that exist that we know of in terms of physics as we understand it now things happen the way they would have happened based on cause and effect no no I see the argument for not randomness say if everybody does the exact same muscle movement throughout the entire history of the universe anything that can move moves in exactly the same way every single time physics would follow I think is the idea if the whole universe resets if the whole universe resets a person stepped on it twice and if they step on it the exact history of them getting to that place with that particular shoe and stepping on it exactly the same way twice in another version of the same universe it would fall at the exact same time let me just get this out there so we can proceed with this knowledge like the most fundamental physical things and events happen at a small enough scale and at that scale things are determined randomly like our best understanding of the universe is that things literally are entirely built on probabilities isn't that just our best understanding well it might be it might just be our best understanding there could be something underlying it that is deterministic but we don't know that and why would we think that they're necessarily has to be oh that's a great fucking argument oh it doesn't feel right it doesn't feel right I'm not saying all fucking that's our best knowledge our best knowledge is it the absolute truth I would say there's a difference between functionally random and truly random this is truly random our best understanding is knowledge here we go here is some knowledge photons they're like paradoxical they can exist in two places at once they did like I can't remember what it was called there's an experiment where they fire a single photon in a thing and instead of like it being like a dot that hits one like this sheet of something that detects photons it was like they shot it and it like appeared in multiple places even though it was just one thing and it didn't split yeah it's Young's double slit experiment yeah it's not that the photons are I don't want to get into it hang on it's possible that something could exist in two places at once but that's different from random since we're on it since we're on this topic I'll flex my nuts a little bit more and say that it's not so much that they exist at multiple places at once it's that their existence is spread across a continuum of probabilities of location and that those probabilities the existence is a wave form of probability that it like undulates beyond like through space and that the measurement a measurement of the photons location will determine will localize and determine that it's actually located at just one of those places but until the measurement is made it is not localized so that it is a spread of probabilities okay but here's my question if under the exact same circumstances we were able to like okay we reset the universe and we perform this experiment again and the first time that we did before we reset the universe we got X result if we did that experiment again would we get the same result or would it be somewhere else our best understanding of the phenomenon is that no we would not necessarily get the same result okay well that's important I think that's important to understand I think if I just have the floor here I think that all this has been the worst experience of my life for instance all of these all of these vague you know discussing smart terms such as like slice of life time all of these all of these terms like words and beliefs munchie dropped out of clown college so we wouldn't have to hear these kind of arguments anymore you're sick of all this fancy fruit fruit bullshit that's why he became a street juggalo he dropped out of icpu yeah exactly here is my here's my political and philosophical beliefs it's a new thing it's called real meatism where I believe in real meat only which which means all these things like okay time you can argue all you want about shit that doesn't matter like time and like how is there a beginning of time it's nice to know that for like textbooks and so we can know more about the words we like conquer it but that's the thing I only care about that because it will benefit me to know that so I can destroy other civilizations in my future I only care like I only care about things that like will impact me and I only care like like there's no there's no reason for me to like care about the highfalutin concepts in life I got a chance for you I got a chance for you on this munchie okay this isn't exactly what we were just talking about but I bring this topic up a lot and I don't go into it too often but I would argue to you I think there is an excellent case to be made that you in fact have literally no control over your life you have zero control you are simply an automaton acting upon biological impulses that are just physical reactions to things everything you think you're doing in your life is not actually you you're not accomplishing anything you are just a witness to the events happening in your body well wait is this a free will or what are you saying here okay yeah so yeah I mean okay sure I agree all of our actions are based on what we have learned but here's the thing about real metism like basically I operate on like a language I don't know how to describe it like I operate on good enough like javascript language I run on c++ actually I'm looking for a degree here it's good enough to say that there is free will because everyone will know what you mean by free will I can move my arm I'm not limited by a government or you know robots this is like the victor argument me and victor have been on this like weird cold war argument across our different digi bros playthroughs about free will where he's trying to argue that free will is real and I'm trying to argue that it's not but we're really arguing two different layers of the problem I'm arguing it on a metaphysical or whatever level and he's or what's the word I'm looking for philosophical level he's arguing it on a like just everyday life he's arguing it on a god if is level the only thing that you can the only thing that can be determined by like free will yes no what happens when time travel is invented if you go back not if when when can you change the future and do timeline offshoots exist if free will will determine whether that is how time travel works like the other way it will be like a different way it will settle that question it's it's when you say your atoms will not go together and when you're touching something that's not you're not really touching it it's good enough to say that you are touching it that works for you because you are a human and your eyes can't zoom in that big you don't need you don't have that big of a telescope in your brain but that information could be useful okay but you know what I'm not saying that it doesn't deserve to exist but it doesn't research the sciences I'm just saying for all intents and purposes I don't like like for like my daily life I don't need to know that I need to know that in case I am a physicist that's like in order to like live a human life I want to say that things matter and I the only things that do matter to me are the things that I can observe as a human but that's like that's such a limited amount of information no no but that's what I'm saying that's what I'm it doesn't you don't need to understand anything or to determine whether something matters or not because it's totally a matter of opinion well you know what matters of opinion are only things that like by the way imagine like that you're at a party or at some place and you're talking to a guy and you don't know who he is and you know there's conversations that come up and he's like did you know I'm touching this and he's like yeah that's true you know that's a good conversation I like that one because it's not annoying you know but if he starts going I will actually atoms and bullshit and I'm like I just don't like you now you really love this friendship I want to state by the way well I still like you hippo so there while this has been going on I decided I'm not a nihilist I am actually I am actually an absurdist and I don't think that's actually a thing people call themselves I think it's actually just a genre of fiction but it's a better description because I feel like nihilism believes that there just is no meaning but absurdism is about how humans can't find meaning like that maybe there's meaning but there's no possible way that humans could ever understand it there can't be meaning outside of a conscious being that determines me why Ben why can there not be meaning outside of well because like I've been saying this whole time meaning is just an opinion so you need to be you need to be a living thinking thing in order to have such an opinion are you telling me that if a tree falls in the forest and no one's around to hear it it does not make a sound well I see what you mean I see what you're saying and I think it depends on what you mean by sound if you mean the physical sensation of hearing a thing then no but if you mean like the concussion of the airwaves then yes the blow the vibrations of the tree falling down will damage the tree and then that will be like you go and record it like oh this tree has like sound wave damage we can tell you use this new technology to hear how this tree fell has it not made the sound until it's been observed like that well if there's a way in the future there's like a special gadget that can like scan the vibration we've already bent this analogy way past where it's meant to be used I want to go here all right if there's a gadget that can like scan a tree to see how like the vibrations have affected it we can hear the trees like ear like what it heard we can hear what the tree is you're not right you're saying we could measure the effects the past effects of a tree having fallen if a tree fell through a vacuum and made a sound how does it benefit the universe to have meaning there's no reason for the universe to have meaning meaning is for humans to want things we don't know that there's something beyond the universe that has its own why would you assume that we couldn't possibly understand that's why I'm saying absurdism it's where you can't you just can't possibly know you're just putting promise to us that you have no reason to believe exists if you're asserting that that's real I mean are you talking about some like extra dimensional aliens basically possibly or anything it is beyond my ability to imagine is what I'm saying well they might be different I think like fundamentally they have to be similar to us and that they have to be conscious thinking beings in order to have meaning that's what meaning is meaning itself is a concept we have made up for a thing that we decided that we wanted so like meaning as we understand it can only arise from like a similar consciousness I can believe I can believe and agree with the idea that we can't know where the homestuck is real but I would like to okay okay so the term meaning is it accurate to say the term meaning is really defined in sort of like the ways that we as the biological organisms are we have biological imperatives and we've sort of defined the word meaning based on our desires and urges as the creatures that we are and like what we want to accomplish I guess like what else could there be how else could you define what that means to change the subject slightly I want to know if anybody else has this experience do you ever have moments where you like you're having too good of a time and you start to wonder if you are actually like this is all hallucination yeah like you actually lost your mind a couple years ago and you're sure no I'm not quite that breasted free well I am sometimes when I'm with my girlfriend I wonder if she's just a real doll that I've convinced myself is human that's adorable and true like what if everyone's just humoring me or like or like I'm such a convincing ventriloquist there's a very that's where Occam's razor is easy to utilize because it'd be a lot of work for everyone to like placate you and make you think no what if I'm just an insane person hallucinating everything in insane detail like what if I'm just in a mental health facility Occam's razor is a tool for deciding like is a useful tool for deciding what's like helpful but it's not a way to arrive at truth it doesn't like you don't determine anything objective by applying Occam's razor to it but technically what we could learn is just a we could we could all be aliens playing different versions of Roy at the moment is the idea that's correct I hope that that's true so bad because then I can wake up and be like oh yeah a blurb blarp Ben if in the event that we are all a simulation would you still say that we think therefore we are like at least on a functional level absolutely in this in this scenario where you're just an insane person like begging your head against a wall in an insane asylum and none of you are real this yeah for all intents and purposes this is real this is the same thing with the simulation like matrix world but does it matter that it's not real because you're experiencing all these emotions and feelings it's functionally like in real life functionally and for all intents purposes real okay you know what you know what this touches on objectively it matters objective okay objectivity doesn't exist is that true okay alright let's talk about this for a second okay there are some things that are objective just throw that out there right they're okay so like when it comes to like what we experience our whole our whole perception of the universe and everything we know just comes through the the crude matter of our senses and what we can observe and what we can process into our brain through our eyes our taste buds our nose most importantly our dick you know all these things and they're none of them are like perfectly reliable ever and we you know all the time here stories of people who are hallucinating and you know so none of these are like 100% reliable so all of this shit could totally be fake and there's sure and yeah Ben you know and you say some things are objective approve it you're fucking you're the existence of your mind equals for the people still goes for yeah that's that's that's objectively true because we've defined those terms and we've defined how they relate to each other in a way that like that's just a function of like the system of math that we've created so that's like definitionally true but like outside of like definitions and things like that um like yeah like fucking you know Descartes and all that shit you like the existence of the cell you know Descartes and all that shit yeah yeah yeah it's a fucking it's old hat at this point I want that I want that it's like an overheard conversation in the background of a party in Rick and Morty or something like you know you know Descartes and all that shit like sure you could be being fooled and all the things you believe are true could be false but like for you to believe those false things you have to exist in some form in order to believe them so like the existence of the cell even if the things that you think you're experiencing are not as you believe they are the experiences themselves are real but it's only true from like only you can prove to yourself that you are experienced we are currently true to everyone other than ourselves that they are real but to us we are proving we are real well if I would argue that if you all are in fact real which I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are but if you are real and experiencing consciousnesses then then your consciousnesses and your experiences are objectively real if they are indeed occurring what if someone like what if I'm like if I write a character and I write them in such a depth as though they had full conscious thought like like what if we are just characters you know I don't that with the Japanese juggalo and he is living with me right now I can look at him right now so I proved your point I don't see how you can get around the idea that you have to be real you have to exist to experience something you could program a cyber brain right like you could maybe like what if we're all just going through all the sub-routines we've been programmed with which we are well that's what a mind is that's what a brain is that would be yeah you know the constant with all of this like the thing that is always true and the most objective thing is that it is the biggest waste of time ever to talk and think and ponder about this because it always comes back to yeah well I guess it might be that's what you think until now we discover like they didn't gun buster how to use dolphins to power spaceships to travel through space fucking faster than I travel your fucking hat when we get them dolphins hooked up boy but how can mirrors be real if our eyes aren't real yeah on that exact quote objective truth shouldn't be pursued okay here's the thing this is what I was trying to get to before with my talk about like how the things that we observe we can't guarantee that any of that is real or true like is my color blue the same as what you see as the color blue who the fuck knows there's no way to prove it but what I would say is that I believe dude hold on real quick you brought up that Vsauce thing and I didn't even need to bring up Vsauce Vsauce doesn't have a patent on that Munchy said Vsauce and when I saw that Vsauce video it had pissed me off so much because they presented that like it was this really mind blowing concept and I literally just thought that on my own when I was 10 and like what if your blue is not my blue and the Vsauce guy was all like dude what if your blue isn't my blue and I was like are you fucking serious oh that was in my mind and that was why I never watched Vsauce again Vsauce is just for babies and that's what it is I was thinking that as a baby I was thinking that as a baby I was really little baby it's the first thing I fucking said as I slid out the womb I said that color is probably different for you I literally remember having that realization and conversation right after watching The Matrix 2 like me and my family were in a Denny's after watching The Matrix 2 and I was talking to Victor and I was like dude what if your green is not my green Matrix 2 much regarded as the most intellectual of The Matrix series but anyway one time I had food poisoning I was at my friend's house and then the dad came over and they were like hey are you alright I was like yeah but I don't understand why can't I switch to the third person like I can in video games like why are my eyes in this position only if I see behind me it's a real thing I actually said while I had food poisoning that's not a joke I like that so this is the thing that I believe even though I actually don't have any concrete proof that it is true but I believe that there is like a highest level true an objective true world like I could be in a simulation easily but like okay let's say I'm in The Matrix okay we're up one level from that we're looking at my body in a pod or whatever okay so this is like a higher level world and that stuff all looks true and even though the people up there are still perceiving everything with their eyes which makes it therefore objectively not the accurate representation exactly of what it really is in you know as true as the Lord Jesus made it and you know like you can go up as high as you want up through like you know artificial world through artificial world through you know data escape or whatever so this is the way up to the highest one that there is and I'm just saying this from an outsider like you just know that this is as high as you can go if you know that that's true the buck has to stop somewhere it has to stop somewhere there has to be an upper limit to it at some point and and like even though the people on that level again they still have sensory organs probably and they're probably perceiving things in the same way that's imperfect but on that top level the world that is the objectively real true world that is the one no one can experience that themselves but like it is there and it is objective that is what I strongly believe even though I don't know it's 100% true to me that seems quite likely that that's the way things work dude here's my philosophy nothing may exist and all that jazz but getting a boner is pretty good so I'm going to do that over and over that's kind of that's real meatism dude that's real meatism okay you know what that's a good segue that's a good segue I think this is a subject that in terms of nihilism a lot of people immediately jump to and it's like okay good and evil is it real? should we subscribe to it? you're both at once can we all agree immediately that good and evil have been defined by humans they're entirely based on our understanding of what we are here's my thoughts on that I strongly believe that saying that something is good is literally the same thing completely interchangeable like linguistically with just saying that you like it and saying that something is bad is literally the same statement as saying I don't like it and there is no people have tried to argue with me on this and I've never been convinced that this is wrong it explains everything we should just replace language with little emojis we should have like a happy face when you're good I would argue like an angry face when you see a bad man I want to be able to open down for people in real life and things and interactions and any of that I have to pee so bad I'm so sorry dude it could be like bronicon you could have like a little thing around your neck and if it's a happy little smile you turn it around upset please do not approach me I'm upset I like how like in real life you want to lay on yours around your neck to simulate what feeling you have when you can just use your face I liked having that thing around my neck to simulate what it's like to be a pony who's got a fucking reins attached to his face that's what I liked about bronicon when are we going back when as soon as possible so Ben was talking about bronicon to get the new iphone like horse are we done talking about Niles I've got one more point I want to make here I'm trying to get to it Ben was saying all that bullshit that I don't care about but at the lowest level originally the first life form that came to exist on earth was functioning based on purely like attraction versus repulsion like attraction toward food in whatever like sensory organs it had to do that and then repulsion from like probably things like danger or yeah like danger would probably be the only thing which is it all just boils down to like good bad like I want to go towards this food I'm to go away from this shit I don't want and we're talking about like a single celled organism that just like absorbs shit by touch excuse me by touching it and then just like tries to stay away from shit that'll like eat it or kill it or poison it or whatever the fuck so like I considering I think that humans are just you know that organism evolved and it kept evolving and evolving and eventually we've got human beings people think that like the system of morality that's in place you know like religious terms have been passed down but it seems to me all super easily explainable just in terms of again biological imperatives so I just want to make this super clear to people that good and evil I don't think is objectively true in any way but what I actually I actually have a little bit different from some people and I think that there sort of is an objectivity element to this which is that there are it's even a little fuzzy to say but there are basically objective truths in that like there are experiences that are like positive and negative for people like death not all the time but generally that it is like an objectively bad thing to do and I know I'm mixing generally and objectively but like death is objectively bad but what makes like life occasionally like less preferable to death is all like this terrible shit happening that that corrupts what life is supposed to be and like pleasure generally preferable to pain and so I really think this is my like hedonism shit I think it makes sense to like construct your life and your world in such a way that you maximize pleasure and minimize pain and that doesn't even mean like hooking yourself up to like a pleasure machine or just doing hair all the time would it be would it be like like maximize pleasure and minimize pain asterisk unless you like pain in which case if so that would just be pleasure for you it's like your thing but with a little asterisk like unless not unless different but let's see I'm taking this to the macro level because I don't even think it's just like like if you're a nihilist I don't think it makes the most sense to just like or if you're a hedonist like just being really pleasure all the time yourself I would argue is not actually the most pleasure you can experience I would argue that you're missing all kinds of stuff that you can only expand maybe if we develop high level artificial worlds I'm back everybody everyone stop the fucking presses I'm back yes good excellent I think I'm fucking like the idea that you can't have pleasure for like like if you have pleasure then you don't know what pleasure is and you have to have a bit of unpleasure I think the human brain does that automatically like I don't think like I can't human mind definitely has a quick drop off of like if you accomplish your life goal in a week you're going to be bored of it you're going to want to do some other shit it's built to unless you're literally pumping yourself for drugs that's how even then even then drugs lose their effectiveness happiness is happiness is a journey happiness is not a destination because if it's a destination you'll get there and then you won't be happy anymore and the way to be happy is to structure your life so that you always have a goal to be working towards that's what I believe never will be great because we'll always be happy no matter what there's no way you can ever be fully bored you can just keep doing things happiness is my penis and see that's why that is where this hedonism and like humanism intersect like I there is no reason to not just act in a way to like maximize pleasure in your life but it is not maximizing pleasure in your life to just literally go around like murdering people for fun and then like your life will end very quickly and unpleasantly if you just go around doing that and then like doing drugs like you'll die very soon you gotta maximize in the long term in the long term not a lot of people want their pleasure is to do the things that they want to do and it doesn't matter how the content is in the case they're being short-sighted in the case that somebody likes murdering it would be in their best interests to just be really really smart to see people as possible and never get caught that's how they do that what if murdering one person would bring me more happiness than the entire lifetime of things that would ever make me happy will even if I got shot right after killing somebody I would be happier it would be more worthwhile than having lived my whole life there is no logical argument I can make to say that you shouldn't do that but I don't think that's very com-likely and the other thing is like if this person should keep in mind that like okay if everyone acted like this society would collapse and then you know other people wouldn't have the opportunities to do these things a murderer cares about Star Trek murder can still be logical we're talking about a logical murderer who just understands this one thing about themselves I think the fact that that can't happen is because people are too scared to assume that's what will happen I'll never be as happy as if I kill this guy they don't know that for sure unless they're completely insane and like you can't have a logical person decide to kill a person that's not true because they don't know what's in the future they may be like well it's probably a bad gamble I'm not gonna take it if I have a sister and like she is getting like beaten up terribly by like her boyfriend and like she is like fully indoctrinated to think that like oh it's all okay but like she's getting her worse and worse hurt and then like it seems like he's just gonna end up killing her one day like he's got a jail work and she just will not leave him there is a logical reason to just go and kill this man to like to kill him, to like save someone there is a reason to do that sort of thing I don't know how to call a cop whatever she won't press charges it can't be done the point is you can construct a scenario where murder is reasonable correct, correct I'm just saying someone whose pleasure is the inherent destruction of society by removing society from being real because there are no more humans left by killing people I don't think he's too concerned one, two, watch, the world, bird there are clap emojis in between all those words everybody imagine that are we gonna move on to questions now I've heard enough no I was in the middle of a point and you just memed all over me go ahead I'm just saying I don't think those people are too concerned about the society ramifications if everyone did this there would be no more then they are short sighted because no one else is first of all that's not what is occurring Nate's trying to argue about what is and is not the most consistent logical system not about what people should actually do or what will actually lead people to people are totally logical I understand that Nate's trying to argue in a perfect world everyone would think this shit through and come to a well reasoned conclusion in a perfect world everyone would do the Macarena at all times at the same time everyone would do the Carmen dance or however you smell it could it cause million dance yeah be like you do the Macarena look come on we're never gonna have a dead dance alright yeah yeah the one where it's like you put your fucking hands up to your head and you do that caramel dancing that's how real smooth whoo I'm doing it right I'm doing it right now boy alright I've heard enough big words and big concepts find verdicts on nihilism anyone it's a cool it's a cool thing dude except for the ontological except for the ontological all the other kinds are true there you go my ending statement on nihilism is that now that you've heard us talk about it there's no reason to ever put it in the comment section so don't comment my opinion is hashtag real meetism join me in believing that the only thing that matters are the things that humans do and I would say this is important to me just and a real meetist then oh okay I don't limit myself to just one box yeah yeah yeah I would say nihilism is true but there is absolutely no reason you can't still be a humanist and get some of that hashtag weird utilitarianism going on in your life so don't be afraid I agree with literally everybody in everything they just said alright let's get to some questions if you want to get your question read pcp patreon you can go to the patreon lounge where we talk to all of our bestest fans the discord it's a discord chat it's not a lounge it's not actually the chairs I'm sorry well not yet at least until we set everything up and also we read less of these these days but you can also on the off chance submit one to the twitter using hashtag askpcp and let's just get our designated for the question out of the way from the twitter here's our at infinity rise one asks how do you find a motivation to live if the goal that keeps you going seems impossible find a better find a better goal find a better goal that's tough to do if it seems to be actually easy impossible does it seem impossible or is it impossible because if it just seems impossible but it is possible don't stop if it is actually impossible then give up imagine imagine that the thing is a little bouncy toy in front of you and then get your magnifying glass and look at the individual atoms of it and then pick apart all the atoms one at a time and slowly after a billion years you will have all the atoms of that spooky toy conquered if it seems impossible break it down into the small components exactly if you want to become if you want to become a beautiful thesbian world renowned like kevin spacey my hero yeah it might seem impossible but if you really bust your balls and do nothing but work towards it for 20 years maybe you'll get there might need some surgery you might need all kinds of shit well I would say if your goal is to be like literally kevin spacey then like you might never get there you might need to get yourself more at some 14 year old boys right now but if you make a better goal that's like oh I want to like you know do the kind of things that my hero kevin spacey does then like you can start working towards that and that's achievable or if your goal is like I want to become rich and famous by the time I'm 25 it's like well aim for the moon because even if you miss you're gonna fall to the ground dead alright maybe from the patreon I was about to ask maybe's question god damn it fine do it fucking punk ass bitch I already have a list I wrote down the good ones I copy pasted them excellent anyway maybe asks are you the type of person who can separate the actions of an artist from their art itself or does the artist's personal life influence how you like their art it depends I wish I could separate it completely but I really can't I think that I used to be able to separate it more but as I've come like I've come to I guess I've come to feel that like art is really just an extension of a person I don't think I really can anymore unfortunately I can still appreciate things but like I can't fully separate in the one sense I would like the idea of just like enjoying art like oh did you know that song you like was written by a pedophile like well I don't care it's a good song if there's a horrible person that has made a thing I will do a little bit I still want to experience it because I like the thing but you know I'll pirate it I won't pay the money for that I'm not gonna stop pirating Hitler artwork you know like I really might abode with it exclusively but it's not about Hitler yeah this isn't a Nazi thing what the fuck leave me alone I would say I don't I can't necessarily separate them but like I will still enjoy and consume art by terrible people if I think the art is good the only time that I won't is if it has to do with me personally because I'm in the kind of position where I've gotten into fights with a lot of artists and had people say things such as a certain My Little Pony musician who I was a really big fan of for a time who said don't listen to my music ever again and anyone who associates with Digi Bro don't talk to me so this artist who I was a really big fan of I cannot listen to even though it's been a long time now and now if I hear the songs I'm like alright I still appreciate why I liked this back then I probably wouldn't even get into it if I discovered it now there's a few artists like that and even on a lesser scale one that was kind of a weird case is the rapper Milo who it's not that he did anything to me personally but he has a real problem with white people saying nigga and he's always on about it and I'm like you're basically talking to me he'll talk about how he doesn't have a problem taking white people's money though when they buy his album he'll complain about white people saying it at his shows and stuff and I'm like dude you're saying it on your fucking album how can we not say it at your shows if that's the case I think it would be more logically consistent to be not okay with them even listening to the music because it's not for them in his mind it's like for these people or whatever the way I look at it is there's no if I like the person who's making it then I don't like the art vice versa it's just sort of like a modifier that I put on my enjoyment of the art itself like if I consume like a comic and it's like a good thing that I like but it's made by a bad person that's not like an instant well I don't like it anymore it's just like a like a like a debuff well and also like like minus 25 percent of it sometimes I actually think the art can be enhanced by that being a bad person I think so too like control all delete my favorite web comic well there's this black metal band called Bersam which is just a one-man band this guy Varg Vikerns who in the early 90s murdered the lead singer of another black metal band mayhem over a financial dispute he stabbed him 37 times and pushed him through a glass door and he was black yeah he was in prison for like 15 years and in Norway and he's out now but he's also like a hardcore nationalist and he he's currently he is currently a daily vlogger by the way just by the by this like 40 something year old Xcon murderer black metal superstar is now also a daily vlogger who talks about like nationalism and pagan stuff and pagan stuff yeah so and he lives in the middle of he lives like in the middle of nowhere in the woods and he's like a huge spur lord and he's got all these kids and he lives on like a farm he's great like in my opinion the music is enhanced because it's fucking black metal so like I want it to be evil and abrasive and wrong you know like I want to know that the guy who recorded this killed a guy you know that makes it even better that's that's why Nate wants all this Hitler art all this all the paintings like it enhances the aesthetic experience I mean don't tell me that having a painting would like not be an amazing thing no it would be so sick that's that's literally why controversial things are really funny yeah funny right so I think for all of us the answer is every time I walk by my hitler portrait it's very fucking funny it's for all of us is like generally yes though it like it's not that we separate it per se but just that we can enjoy we enjoy the content without necessarily contributing the artist like it plays a part in our enjoyment I don't mean to harp on this it doesn't decide it I don't mean to harp on this but like just just the Milo example that did you brought up like I'm just thinking about that like is it like okay so obviously that guy like has is writing music for like a specific group of people I like but he's selling it to everybody but like do you think if he could he would only sell to black people or something I mean on some level I think that might be the case because he has made like really exclusive tapes and stuff like that but I mean I don't think it's that I think a lot of it is more that he's expressing that sentiment not that it's like an absolute in his life but he does express like the sentiment in the lyrics of his songs and sometimes it can feel like an attack on me I just can't get behind that at all that logic I just don't follow it there's this one thing that I is like kind of relevant to this is um there's this TV show called the Great British Bake Off where people bake is a competition do they get to make it a baked as fuck dude yeah ohhhh yes yes all right this is the show and um it's great and the whole nation loves it it used to be on BBC and then the runners of the show asked the BBC for more money because it was raking in the viewers and the BBC said no so they left they just said fuck you we're going to Channel 4 instead and uh people there was like a big hubbub like Channel 4 20 you know what I'm saying you quite finished I'm finished for now okay it went to Channel 4 and there was like a big hubbub about like some of the presenters left and some of them stayed and the show was great it's still like exactly the same show because I love it but people were like oh I don't know whether I could you know betray the BBC and the presenters that I know and love to go and watch the same show just on a different channel like everyone was talking about it and I just didn't get like and it's kind of the same sort of thing like the artist in this case is the producer of the show like they said oh he did a bad thing he left the BBC and it's like it's the same thing it's a lot of brand loyalism tied up in that like exactly brand loyalism is the same as artist separation I don't even care if any of us try to answer this I just want to read this because it's so badly written it made me laugh I think it's just an honest mistake but uh Han Todd says what's a sandwich sandwich slash restaurant if you have one they got like really cheese steak sandwiches Sub Jared at Subway he's my man sandwich sandwich oh boy a sandwich sandwich restaurant just a lot of little sandwiches between two pieces of bread and you're just biting into that alright real question this one I'm interested in because I think it could be different for everybody in here plastic gargoyle do you guys often experience people acting as though they're good friends with you based on their consumption of your content and what is your view on people treating consumption of your creators content as a sort of analog for interacting with them well uh I'll just jump in and say that like I started me and Jackie started a discord not that long ago and it really took off and it's like really really active and uh I don't I don't I mean people would send me tweets and stuff and like nice to me and I'd be nice to them but like it was not like friendship per se I don't know but like I actually have become like pretty good friends with a bunch of like these people in there so but would you say that was based on the consumption like like there's a difference to me because I have the same thing I also have a really active discord now um for my Patreon and like when those people talk to me like we're I don't know they don't really act like we're all friends but like it's okay for me for them to like joke around because we have been talking like I know who they are you know there has been in the past times where people have come and been like not really a whole lot this isn't like a common occurrence but there have been times where people were like buddy buddy with me who I just don't know who they are you know and I'm like uh do you why this happened a lot of Brody Khan when people used to follow us around and stuff and be like real extra friendly when we were like I literally do not know who you are you know um yeah stuff like that sucks but like I think really like when it comes to like just talking on like on a discord it's basically the same as meeting new people except them knowing your channel is just the icebreaker and you don't have to do any of it is a great icebreaker and I I will say in spite of how I just made that sound at conventions um I don't mind so much when people come up and like know a lot about me because I'm not surprised because in many ways it is pretty close to knowing me like I put out so much content and like express so much of my life that like the amount you I mean yeah there's tons and tons of my life that you don't see in the videos but a lot of that life is reported on in the videos you know so like if someone came up to me and they were like up to date on what's going on with me that wouldn't surprise me or be weird I'd just be like oh yeah of course you know um I usually have a pretty easy time jumping into in-depth conversations with my fans at cons at first meeting like people I've never heard of but if they come up and they're like oh I watch all your content then we can just dive right into conversation you know the the the worst thing I mean I don't want to shit on anyone as so you know but this just does happen is that um you know people come up to you and say hey I really like your stuff or like in any situation online or off and you say oh thanks and then they sort of like feel like there's a rapport going there's like a conversation and they expect you to continue the conversation they used to have a lot more to me I uh I I still like I've got a couple of discords that I run and I will get messages or like friend requests from individual people and uh most people you know I actually to be fair most people just know that like they shouldn't do that this is actually pretty rare I'm shocked how few friend requests I've gotten from my discord but I deny them all of course of course I always got like hundreds of people in there and I've only gotten like three or four I know I scroll this back right now except that shit I accept that shit man whatever anything about these people and I do these are people that I've like talked to I would accept the request from if they sent it but they haven't but like like okay I'm looking I'm looking at I got a message right here that I'm just looking I'm not going to read it out loud because it's it's a tiny bit personal I mean so I'm just not going to but like I don't know who the fuck this person is and this person is like wanting me to like give them my time like hey let's talk oh who the fuck are you you talking about that I get that literally every day and I don't ever respond to them but I don't know if that's the same thing as acting like my friend like okay it's like the requesting to be my friend alright stick stick with me here but I consider this a form of violence alright yeah you are attacking me with a conversation and you are there there's no way I cannot waste a little bit of my time on dealing with this you are stealing my time for me even if it's just reading it I mean I this is not a serious I'm not seriously getting anybody that's just mean but still like yeah that goes a little like what this guy's asking about is more like acting like they're already your friend but that the idea of like asking to be my friend that happens all the time and sometimes the phrasing of it is super bizarre because it seems to assume on their part that I would be interested in them in some way like when I got recently and apologies if this guy happens to be listening but it was it was strange he said like what if we met up some time he was like hey I live in like a relatively near area what if we met up some time to see if we like are as similar as I think we are or something like that and I'm like why would I want that like you want to hang out with someone similar to digi bro that's just I mean I just I why do I'm not out in the market for like new friends right now like it's not something I'm like like the idea that somebody is similar to me is digi so fuck what you want like what you I've got the reason I have like a misunderstanding of like what becoming a friend with someone is yeah like I have a disco to I think we all have discords yeah but my discord it feels more like that I am just one of the other people in the discord and like people post things and talk about things and then I comment on them and I say silly things they say silly things it's just sort of like I I'm a community with my community and that's like the best situation I'm not like a figurehead necessarily I am I am both the figurehead and that in mind like because I have a whole channel of just discussing my content and my content comes out all the time and there's definitely a level of deference towards me in there but like to me the reason I have a big audience is that there's plenty of people like me you know like there's plenty of people who are similar enough to me that we can have a conversation so let's have a conversation here online that's what the internet's for you meet people who are kind of like you and you have some conversations like not every person who's anything like me is gonna make me be like oh well we gotta be best friends yeah and then like miraculously if you end up talking to someone and you just like are clicking and it's just like then like okay you know what we're hooking up let's let's do something on our own but I mean that was basically that's exactly that that's correct that's correct so see that's that's how it happens it's gotta be a natural thing guys don't don't fucking friend me if we have not had a conversation just don't do it munchie did you have any you wanted to read out of this chat before I get to I only have one more but it's uh I don't know right I'll just like I'll do it just fucking whatever munchie do you real real quick just want to like delete all from the PCP real quick yeah I'm just I'm just go ahead and remove myself from all future endeavors I'm just gonna Leon Trotsky myself and fucking remove myself from all so all the podcast was gonna delete them all they're all gonna be gone and I'm just gonna just put a high-pitched whine over all of your speech seconds in uh in all the PCP so far okay thank you it'll be like marble horn it's like slender man like like like slender man is near you sickness oh that sounds good we should make a let's literally make a channel that's called PCP minus munchie where we do that we just upload all the content over there are people who would like be really thankful for that and I fucking think that they should they should all get the fuck out of here we should make a channel called just munchie we should make a channel that's like PCP plus marble horn it's where we just all we just is marble horns but all of us are the different character we should make a show where munchie just literally bitches about my little pony content careers for like oh my god can you imagine we should just make a show where we read a homestuck week by week and then move through it weekly munchie don't you ever fucking say that again munchie do not even speak of such an idea I don't want to hear about it alright alright here's one that I'm just gonna answer really fast HappyD asks does slash will the PCP have a cap on the number of members yes the cap is the current number and it will never exceed this number again ever there is no reason it should or will ever happen you know unless it's really festive unless it's really really festive like the mile point oh it's like a it's like a you know in an RPGs you get like temporary party members who join just like a specific dungeon or something you know maybe maybe a little yeah there might be some guests but there's no there will never be another core member of the PCP again the number is going the number is only going down from here guys we're cutting corners I'm gonna replace myself with Father Christmas how many people are on each podcast like the limit to what they can record but I have no idea why would they mint that that no yeah yeah no that's already the case no more okay just theoretically it's possible but just imagine the gauntlet that the next person who's like a viable candidate will have to go boy years well years of training the only way another person is going to join is if it is a case like munchie where literally all of us have known and been friends with them for like three years and he had to prove him his worth you know like investigator was everything I hoped it would be I changed the game he proved his worth with the with the um with the lecture the parkour 291 lecture there's no doubt there's one last question no digit asks how would you optimize the PCP delete my tree yeah and the PCP is a is a is a chaotic blip in the system to optimizing it would mean smoothing out the whole thing smoothing out the wrinkles on the brain you know exactly oh my god yeah we don't want to be optimized we'll be deleted we will be removed I mean I think I think if I was going to optimize the PCP obviously get everybody in one place which is what we already want to do some in a room and never just eat the key I think it would be I think it would be easier for us to if we wanted to talk about like more topical stuff on the PCP it would be easier if we could all consume it together you know that's true like if we all lived in one place it'd be easy enough for us to all like go see a movie that just came out and then do a PCP on it right after it's like I would do on rather than just that would be very sick imagine the reputation that our gang would acquire at the local cinema plaques as we bomb in every Saturday night oh my god the PCB boys are rolling through again everybody put your park is on there's about to be a jizz hurricane we would be ruffians we would be ruffians I think we're at we're at a point where we're probably like five or six months out from PCP headquarters starting to become a thing where we're getting close and I think it's perfect timing because we can only stretch random ass weird esoteric concepts so far like as you saw this episode nihilism like this is a weird topic and you can only do so many nihilism podcasts you can only have so many you can only have so many podcasts that's to weird utilitarianism immediately and go there forever all roads lead back to weird utilitarianism this is clear it's a rock upon which the PCP rests from the beginning of the PCP I think we've been saying we need to have more specific media casts but there's nothing that all of us consume guaranteed enough every once in a while the riksty minutes will pop up or Dark Souls 3 it's even worse than armory riksty minutes riksty minutes was like significantly more popular than the PCP for its time which was interesting armory she was been out forever bro there's only one episode on this channel that's what I was saying the special I just want to read out this real quick this is just for me no one else can answer extra Pharisees if you could insert yourself into a movie as a protagonist what would that movie be and why a chindler's list but why only the Germans is the protagonist that guy who played Voldemort who was the leader of the Nazi camp that's what I always empathize with it's really sad that he lost I actually want to ask this question because I don't think this is a good question but I could be wrong because either this guy's a weirdo or there's more weirdos out there pondedator2 asks how often do you think about speedrunning while you're playing a game for me it's pretty much constantly I can't think about games in other ways well that's fun I'm feel sorry for you is this the first time you play through a game or after that I will say that occasionally when I'm playing a game if I see something that looks like a speedrunner would use that's obviously the speedrun tech maybe once in a blue run that happens every so often I think of a game and I'm like wait do you run of that game but that's like months or years after I played it I don't think about it at the time the fact that I am in the I'm in the midst of people who like speedrunning more than they like esports genuinely sickens me and ever since I've never been able to forgive any of you Esports I don't know that I like speedrunning more than esports esports is just a lot harder to get into and follow I like speedrunning like a speedrun you just throw on a youtube video esports you have to like watch cool ass matches bro I don't even know where one matches watches a match of esports you fucking google it don't I know what matches are interesting you're good you got research what games have you watched you fucking watch melee any day of your life just move melee to melee top 10 tournament I know melee esports the last one I remember though is Hungrybox beating Armada with Jigglypuff and after that I felt like melee's over now like we've done all we needed to that is true that was all I wanted to happen and it happened and now melee's over my friends back to since college have been into the competitive league of legends scene just like following the you know the disgusting I have never understood the appeal I have not once understood I get the appeal I'm just not interested leg of leg I watched there was a brief period where I was subscribed to Thorin the guy who's like esports commentator guy not a commentator but he makes videos about esports and all of his like broad concept videos explaining why esports are interesting were really cool and good but then he would like have like a video a day about actual esports and like they're all written in such a way that you need to know an incredible amount of information to get in like it's oh fucking sorry I was interrupting no it's just like I I don't even know the rules of the games that are being talked about enough to like like much less the meta or the tech or the people you know like I'd have to like the only reason I know smash melee is because I watched that fucking four-hour documentary about it and even that is considered like entry level you know sure it's cool fucking Sal TV a TF2 commentator esports guy I love that shit I love esports fuck you on this guy's question there you go on the guy's question of speedrunning I'm playing a lot right now of world-renowned game for the Nintendo Switch Mario Odyssey that literally everyone agrees is a beautiful game with no attractive flaws of any kind and I do I'm always playing that game to like optimize speed and I have actually researched like the optimal ways to play for like maximum height on jumps to like get to secret places and stuff and like there's a lot of races to do in the game so like I sort of think I know what he's talking about but I don't know it sounds like he's taking it to a higher level I just think it's weird that he would like clearly he's a speedrun guy clearly he has a deep interest in speedrun so he thinks that way why would he expect anybody who doesn't speedrun constantly to think that way he knows none of us are speedrunners if he watches the PCP well we have done the races which is more than most people have done in all of those we make it very clear that this was like an intensively researched project for this one video that's true I don't think any of us has ever given the impression that we are speedrunners someone asked me a question directly they even added me don't do that but thank you and I just have to do this out of the kindness of my heart how many hats can you feel in your head depends on their size depends on the size of munchies head that day yeah yeah yeah how many hats have you had on your head at once and I have put four on my like actual hats legitimately well wait wait what's a cap what does that mean I didn't say cap I said joke hat oh oh I have six I've had six hats on my head are you stacking them on top of each other cause that's easy boys I'm talking about next to each other on your head to create a full half sphere on the top of your head can you get more than two I've done three and they've all been real tiny hats for sure and he's with them he's with tiny hats all the time alright that's enough right at that alright oh by the way okay thanks for listening everybody let's plug our shit please that's the most sensual enough enough yeah I meant to just do it like munchie only quieter but okay in any case I seduce them I apologize for seducing the entire audience forgive me that's a great question by Ferguson in the patreon chat do you think the PCP is too niche to get a sizable following no we just need more people to donate to our patreon that's the only that we need to have grow so please do that please head on over to patreon.com slash the procrastinators people we've got bonus episodes there's a total of eight out right now at this moment you have pledged five dollars you're instantly able to access all of them the latest one is about alcohol MMR and it's very sensual you're going to want to listen to that whole thing at maximum gain the next one is going to be out of this world it's going to be a doozy so brace your anal prolapse for imminent destruction wait what's the next one let's not spoil it yet I'm seeing it stay tuned everybody stay tuned and follow us at tpcrastinators on the twitter for updates and whatnot and you can hashtag ask pcps questions you're better off going to again patreon.com slash the procrastinators pledging even as little as one dollar and you're in the patreon lounge when we ask those questions that's where we read most of them these days oh we got new shirts we got stickers people with little chibi versions of all the pcps lads stickers are legitimately great I need to order a pack and we got shirts pcps stuff there will be more merch coming everything you could want who's got child abuse going out of the back that doesn't matter child abuse doesn't matter yeah nihilism doesn't matter yeah it doesn't matter oh we tied it all up in a bow I think that's everything thank you for listening everybody and we will see you next week I gotta put someone back in their place bye bye yeah I'm supposed to be working right now supposed to be working