 So how do people of different generations use the internet now? We went out on the street, which is very dangerous, especially in Austin and asked so I want to show you what they said Hi, everyone Andy north with WP engine here We're out on the streets of Austin, Texas today talking with a variety of different people about their attitudes about the internet What generation do you identify with the most? I have a definitely some of the millennial Gen X. Yeah, I'm a early 90s some of the millennial 1944 so that is a little more before the baby boomers, but We'll give you the baby boomers there on that on that end kind of like in between Gen Z and millennial I was born in 1999 so when you access the internet, what do you primarily use for it? Is your laptop a tablet phone my phone my phone is gets me from point A to point B check my email music You name it. Yeah, I have a home computer with the access to in but Computer that I can access things on the internet How long do you think you could go without accessing the internet? I have it with me all the time I probably don't go 20 minutes without picking it up for some reason probably a couple days Maybe like a weekend. I mean it depends what the circumstances are How do you think you'll connect to the internet in five to ten years? I'd have no idea more platforms are gonna be created I don't necessarily think as far as the like access is just gonna be ramped up in five years It's gonna be the same. Hopefully I have a newer laptop by then. What does being online mean to you? I think it means staying relevant. I just used to keep in touch with people So, you know creep on Facebook and see if people are up to or you know send invites out or see where my circle is Honestly, I don't delineate it into categories. It's sort of like my arm, right? It's like oh, well, I can talk to people I Can go shopping I can look up information that I need I can become entertained. There's no Categorization it just it is right. It just is It's my arm. It just is Also, it's a guy still getting on the information superhighway some of you weren't oh alive when Al Gore said he invented this information superhighway anyway so So the answer is mobile Mobile is how people are primarily accessing the internet now you hear it there from their own mouths But the answer is phones and other things that are mobile and there's this amazing data Which shows that laptop usage hasn't changed at all in about nearly about eight years Not at all all the growth is in mobile and it eats away into some of these other things etc But it's just it's just mobile and the mobile line there is bigger than the other bars And you've probably seen this in your own websites or your clients websites or your customers websites that mobile traffic Outstrips laptop traffic and this is going to continue one reason is because demographic because of demographics You just saw people who are younger tend to skew mobile more and of course they're gonna exist and new ones are gonna be made because that's how it works Also when countries come online, they're consistent they're consistently far majority mobile Every time a new country comes on you know really online like you know more than half of their populations on the internet that sort of thing It's not through laptops. It's through phones So this is a trend that will continue because of the sort of forces that are here Another interesting thing to notice about this is the very top of the bars It's not that the internet and internet usage is constant and more of its shuffling to phones. That's not it Our laptop usage is still high still the same as it was It's that we have new usage and it's on mobile and a lot of that new usage is relevant to all businesses Whether they're selling to other businesses or whether they're selling to consumers or its media who are quote-unquote selling But it's really page views or whether it's attention that you're trying to get like media like so It doesn't matter. What is going on this is important another thing that people say is okay But what about commerce because of commerce? I don't know if it's still the phone So we had a study last year that said that people would prefer and I'll show you the data because we refreshed it this year So I'm gonna show you fresh data But last year we had data that said that 60% of the people would prefer to do to transact E-commerce on a phone than a laptop and everyone said eh that doesn't make sense That's not how I feel So we just had Thanksgiving in America which in America is one of the biggest shopping days on that Friday And also that following Monday and really throughout the weekend. It's a big time in America so the numbers just came out and During this huge shopping time. It's called Black Friday because that's when retailers typically go into the black instead of the red Because that's how big the day is More online commerce happened on mobile than laptops So that crossover point in commerce not just browsing around and doing stupid things in commerce that crossover point has now happened Like right now Which is pretty cool. So the data we had last year suggested that might be the case and now it just came to pass That's cool. So if you're a marketer and you're hearing this you think, okay I guess I have to be not just good at mobile But maybe even mobile first or mobile primary or something like this. I have to I don't have a choice So I guess we have to make apps. This is a logical conclusion because that's what mobile phones have is you open them up And there's apps so I need to make apps. So here's a fun thing to think about How many apps do you think a person downloads an average person downloads per month? Because if I'm a marketer, I'm gonna make an app the ideas people would download the thing of course So just think how many you think an average person downloads per month? The answer is zero on average none So making app is probably a bad idea That's probably not how to get in front of people the number of times people use the web application on their phone every month is 99% 100% something like this. We didn't ask that actually So it's zero and so so apps is actually not a good way for a marketer or anybody But let's talk about marketers since there are clients that our customers are Customers of our plugins and themes our clients of our agencies and so forth. So let's talk about the marketers So plugins or apps is not a good way for marketers to reach people on mobile And even if you do have an app there People use on average three apps So the idea that someone will download it is almost zero and the idea that then they use it later is almost zero And you probably have a phone full of apps where this is true You downloaded it two years ago It's on page seven and it literally isn't worth your time to go to page seven to lead it although That's what you should do, right? So it's a security risk. Good so So so this is the reality is like it's mobile and it ain't apps. That's what the data say so that's useful to know So another thing that's useful that the data show about mobile is performance matters And this is not maybe a surprise performance always matters in software It always matters on the internet Google will rank you higher for websites faster People won't bounce off your site because they're bored waiting for your site to load if your site's faster Of course faster sites are gonna be better. So on mobile in particular though There's all this data and these are all from actual studies or large companies like an Amazon or Google looking at all their data Which is quite a bit So a one-second delay in page load reduces sales 20% you've probably heard numbers like that but think about that for just a second you're a business and Your revenue goes up 20% just if you make your site faster Like if you really let that sink in it's hard to imagine something else you could do at your company. That's more impactful Then making your site a little faster and yet On average and I'll show you this data in a second on average sites on mobile take more than two seconds to load In other words, there's no doubt that this is money money like dollars not somehow tenuously indirectly tied to know It's dollar bills and yet almost no one's doing a good job at it This is an opportunity for everyone here whether we're making products whether we're building sites Whatever we're doing here with WordPress. This is obviously opportunity because it's it's real So I want to get to ours. So this is all data that you can get from various places We also did our own data which I want to present to you now And what we did is we asked a whole bunch of people stuff This is all you don't have to read all the details with the point is we asked people we We partnered with a firm called Vance and born who are Experts in doing surveys since we're experts at WordPress and and running WordPress and building stuff on top of WordPress But not doing surveys necessarily and so we partnered with people that do this for a living And so we asked people a whole bunch of questions I'm going to give you all the answers that they gave right now, of course So the question is what are our customers in other words marketers? What do they what are they thinking about mobile? Never mind the data about what's happening. What do they think because that's how we're going to sell to them That's what they're going to be building and doing so that's what we need to know if we're gonna be successful with with mobile too Most of these are also enterprise a lot of people say hey I know enterprise marketers have all the money, but I'm not sure what to say to them I'm not sure what they're thinking. I'm not sure if they're even using WordPress. I'm not sure what they're doing, etc So here you're gonna find out this is what they're saying and doing with mobile And then I'm gonna also show you what they're doing with WordPress so that you can specifically go and make pitches to enterprise marketers also Using with their language and what they're saying So let's get to it already. So first of all, what do you use to build mobile sites? This is what we asked what systems use to build mobile sites and remember enterprise and you'd expect Answers like adobe experience manager and site core and adobe I mean sorry and and aquia and these other folks that are on the Gartner quadrant all this kind of stuff That's what you'd expect and the answer is yes Those are all there the number one is adobe and the tide for number one is WordPress now today Not we have to go convince the enterprise to do it right now It's more you might notice that these add up to more than 100% Is that weird no it's because people use more than one thing and I'm gonna give you more data on that Specifically in a little bit, but that that data is not wrong. It's because he's more than one thing This is part of the advantage just because somebody uses a big tool like a site core adobe Does not mean they don't also use WordPress. In fact, usually they do that's our opportunity, right? So okay, they use WordPress to build mobile sites in the majority. That's awesome What are they doing with mobile like what's in what's going to be important? What are they trying to build with it? So we asked about technologies and things now historically what I would say is people have thought about about mobile as We just need to make sure it looks right and acts right on all the devices and so we'll make reactive device, you know Displays or we'll have different versions or whatever and that's what we'll do for mobile That's the tech we're using. It's not really a different tech for mobile. It's just that will it'll the layout will be different That is not the future. That's that's what we learned the last 10 years since the iPhone came out is that that's probably a good idea But 85% the vast majority of marketers say that what we need to do next is amp and PWA What is that? Well, we could spend a whole hour on just what are what is each one of those things? So I'll do it really quickly just touching what it is because really the answer has got to go dig in separately so amp is a Technology originally by Google, but it's adopted by many people like Cloudflare and others It's not only a Google thing. You've note spearheaded by Google and the idea is to make a site fast by limiting exactly what it does How much CSS is there? How much JavaScript is there? How is that loaded? What can go in there? How can the page act lots of things that cause the site to be fast and So when you do that your site does load very fast. It's very responsive and so forth and it's nice So that's one thing that almost everyone says we're going to be doing that So if you want to get work or make plugins or etc etc in the WordPress space In mobile in particular amp is a fantastic place to go because that's what everyone says they're doing and the other one is PWA progressive web app What that really means is making a website act like an app So nobody installs apps. That's cool. But there's things up to do that really nice like they work when you're offline That's good. Like I have my boarding pass and I need it to work Even when I don't have the internet when I'm at the airport because it just needs to come up Or the articles that I want to read when I'm on the plane or if I'm going in the subway and the internet's coming in and out The articles just need to work. So offline is important. Another one is push. I can send push notifications out if I have an app Normally the web doesn't support that So how do I get these behaviors like offline like push? There's other ones, too And the answer is PWA is a technology where you can do all those things with a web app And it works on all devices including Apple and Android and blah blah blah blah Wow That's kind of cool So you could argue that Google also invented this because apps means Google can't see what's inside the thing And if it's on the web, but Google can't see inside the thing So Google spanish controls better if you use PWA that's a skeptical and probably right answer The other thing is all of these all of these features are really valuable pushes awesome Being on the home page is awesome Working with it with a with an internet connection that is sketchy or gone is very awesome for the user experience So that's the that's the non-skeptical and also true thing about PWA's anyway This is what everyone is like almost everyone is implementing So if you haven't looked into these things before then that's a good idea to go look at So what else so When we ask people how's your mobile experience now like how have you built those sites? Is it good? Are you guys doing a good job? Do you think you think you're doing a good job and only 29% said yeah We have we have a we have a good mobile Implementation so less than less than a third feel like they're doing a good job now again opportunity should be in your head right now What could look we do for them? Furthermore, we asked about performance and they said again almost everyone 82% said My mobile site loads in bigger and more than two seconds slower than two seconds We just said a few slides ago. That's like 20% of your revenue if you're a media company or e-commerce company 20% of your revenue and almost everyone says yeah, that's that's that's our problem, too Again huge opportunity here most people the majority are using WordPress to solve these problems You can you can add one-on-one right? Another reason not to do apps is if you need more but if you're you know if you're pitching to enterprise Maybe you need more reasons not to do an app So one of them is that people don't use apps that seems like a good enough reason another reason is it's expensive to Do apps and so when we ask people how much do you spend or this again the marketers to develop an Mobile app if you have and how much have you spent to develop a mobile website if you have and the answer is that apps cost Twice as much to another reason not to use and fantastic Interesting is the actual numbers there Half a million dollars to make a mobile website does that sound good to you? I hope so see it's where all the money is nice so Here's a really funny thing people said that I actually don't personally don't agree with but it's what they said So it's useful again getting the minds of your customers useful to know That two-thirds said that they believe that when you add all this up it means the end of the app store Now I don't think it's the end of the app store like you're still gonna down There is there are gonna be apps and there are really good reasons maybe games maybe email I don't know there's gonna be good reasons to apps. It's a little to me It's a bit silly to say no more store that I don't know about that But the fact that so many people wanted to say that Indicates their mindset about what they think about apps. So that's that's useful to know and There's this latest data, which is just from a few months ago by the way, I didn't mention that I guess but it's very recent now 70% say that Vast majority of Americans would prefer to do e-commerce over mobile and live again We just fortunately got the data to back up this idea, which is good It's always good when the data say the same thing. They don't always do they anyway, so that's that's nice to do Okay, so all this has been about Mobile in general enterprise maybe somewhat in particular. It wasn't a hundred percent enterprise We talked to it was just majority and so that's useful But then a final thing if you're if you're asking, okay, how do I sell my my product my plug-in my theme my agency? Etc. How do I sell my services or products to these folks that are building mobile? Etc. And obviously we're spending a lot of money on it. That all sounds really yummy What else am I gonna say about WordPress like they clearly using WordPress a lot? But still I have to sort of sell myself sell WordPress. How do I do that? So I want to expand slightly outside of mobile only and talk about how we look at why Why people use why enterprises in particular choose WordPress and again? We did another study is a different one also advanced and born on this topic How do people select CMSs and why do people select WordPress because again if we can get insight into that then we all know like okay? These are the kinds of jobs or the kinds of products, etc. That will work. Well, so let me show you that data So this is a different study same kind of format, but a different kind of study on this more broad topic of CMSs So first of all kind of explaining that other data point more than half of the people we talked to use more than one CMS They may use Adobe and WordPress. They use Acquia and Cycord. They may use etc. Right more than one Which kind of makes sense because of course Adobe is good at many things And of course WordPress is good at many things and they're not the same things And so it kind of makes sense that you'd need the right tool for the job. You may not want ten different systems That's too hard to manage. It's too hard to specialize But one is maybe not not sufficient for a complex organization. Anyway, it may make sense But it's also true and in this other study when we asked Well, what do you use again? The data came back essentially the same as the other one again It's always nice when you ask the same kind of question in different ways get similar answers that suggest the data in fact true So and so it's nice to see all that Umbraka, what is that? Have you guys ever heard of that? I didn't anyway Go Jumla. Okay, so those are there's a lot of choices And why do you pick WordPress? I mean after all you have if you have Adobe, which most people do I guess It does everything. I mean at least in bullet points. It does everything and so why would you need WordPress? Why would you then why would most people also pick WordPress? Which is what most people do? Why? How do you pick what goes on WordPress and what doesn't and here's the answer? So faster time to market which means how fast can I go from an idea to something's launched? When I need it to be easy to use When I need when when I need agility. What does that mean? That could mean anything. I guess Here's what it means specifically when we ask this question Time to market is zero to launch Agility means once it is launched how easy can I change it because I'm gonna be doing a B test And I want to implement whatever is good because I'm gonna be launching new content because I'm a content marketer And I'm going to make content so I need to be able to do that without a lot of fuss and so forth How easy is it to change after launch? Especially for enterprises a lot of times It's easy to make changes before launch because whatever just make a change no one's looking at it But after you launch especially in the enterprise it can be very hard Well, you know millions of people are looking at this every day We have to make sure it works everywhere so even a minor changes needs to be tested everywhere If I've heard and so a little change takes maybe weeks In the enterprise so this agility thing is actually quite important and different from the zero to one an Experimentation when I want to try new things I'll give you an example that in a second So there's more but this you get the idea these are the kind of critical places. When there's a job that in which this is valuable, then WordPress is the right tool for the job, says marketers, says all of our collective customers, our potential customers. So how does WordPress do that? It's useful to articulate this. I'm gonna go quickly, because everyone here knows these things roughly, but it's useful to actually list them because when you're pitching your product, your service, et cetera to them, these are the points which will resonate because this is what they say that they want and how WordPress fulfills it. So this is how to sell it, in other words. So it's worth repeating in this particular way. So there's several things. First is integrations. There's a million things that all marketers have to integrate with. Our own website, WPNG.com, integrates with 23 different vendors. And we're not even as complicated as like a Walmart.com, right? So you have to integrate integration stinks because things don't talk to each other and there's APIs and things change and it's hard. But WordPress, as we all know, was built to be integrated with. It's like Legos, right? We can plug in plugins. Plugins can plug into plugins, if that makes sense. So it's like Legos and we can make whatever we want and that helps integrations go well. We also have, of course, the JSON API, which also helps integrations go well. So for example, we have enterprise customers where they use some other system like Sitecore for content authoring, but then they use the JSON API to suck it out of that other CMS and into WordPress for deployment because of those things they can deploy fast and it's inexpensive and whatnot. They use two CMSs on purpose because WordPress is so easy to integrate with. So this is something specifically that people build in the enterprise. That's one, integrations and everyone has that problem. The second one is the cost. We know WordPress is less expensive because the PHP doesn't cost anything, but if I build it out just slightly, you'll see an argument that again, you can use to say why this is useful and valuable for enterprise to do. So normally when you use Adobe, first you have to pay Adobe a bunch of money just to have the code. This is equivalent of downloading the zip file from WordPress.org, you have to pay money for that. Then of course you have to pay your agency or in-house team to build it. Then you have to implement the hardware so you got to set up servers and think about security and I don't know, all the nonsense. And then there's ongoing maintenance costs because you have to keep upgrading it and pay Amazon for the servers or whatever you're doing. Of course, these are the pieces. So with WordPress, you don't have to pay that because you get to download the zip file, but WordPress is not free. WordPress is free like a puppy dog is free. You can have it, but then you got to take care of it after that, but it still is cheaper than having to pay for the puppy dog. So that's good. Then you still have to build it and so forth. And maybe if you use any one of the many hosts that are present here today, then the implementation is easy. You still have to pay them though. So for the hosting, somehow or another you got to pay to go on. Still you can see you're saving money, that's good. But don't make the case that you're saving money. And that's the worst argument. Because guess what, you don't. The markers have a budget and that's how much money they have and they don't save anything. No, they don't like take the money and give it to each other. We saved it. Let's give it back. Maybe engineering can use it. They never say that. Let's give it to sales. They could use some more people and no. So actually it's not true. So it's not a good argument. Here's a good argument. There could be a project right now and it's gonna cost, right now it costs you $400,000. So you can't do it. You don't have a budget for $400,000. But with WordPress it would only be $200,000 so you can do it. That's an argument. I can or I cannot make an entire campaign, make an entire site, create a whole experience. That is the difference for a marker between being able to make an impact or not. Not saving money. Or another one would be, why don't you take all that budget you have and put it all into build. I can see all the agencies are like, yeah, exactly. Give it to us. We know what to do. Put it all in build and make something incredible. Don't just make a thing. Make an incredible thing that has high engagement and does all this stuff. Make something amazing. Don't give it to Adobe. Give it to your agency so they can make something mind-blowing. So it works better. Because that's your goal as a marketer. For things to work better. Not to save money. CEO doesn't say how much money you're saving. They say, how many leads did you make? So take the money and make it more leads by doing the projects that were not possible otherwise or by making the projects way better by giving it to the makers, right? Okay. Another one is you can go to Market Fast. This one's maybe obvious. You want to launch things fast. You can't do that with big systems. You can't with WordPress. This is actually a big area where Gutenberg is helpful. I know, oh, Gutenberg, I touched it. I touched Gutenberg. What do I think about Gutenberg? I love it and I'll tell you why because this particular point of being able to launch things fast. So in our marketing department, we make landing pages for crap and we release a new product. And we'll make like, you know, to 10 or 20 landing pages, what do we do? We make 10 or 20 landing pages for the product because we got an A-B test and stuff because nobody knows what people will click on, you know? So we guess and we let data tell us, right? So you got to make a lot. So that used to take us about three weeks because we'd have all these concepts about design and content and then we'd give them to the designers and then whatever is, and they cut them up and they make the thing and, you know, that's the normal path. It takes three weeks to make a bunch of pages. But with Gutenberg, what we're able to do is make blocks that have all the stuff, the components that we might need and then we just assemble stuff and it's very easy to A-B test this one versus that one and this and that. Also, it's nice to put power in the hands of the end users. They can make what they want, that's nice. But that power can be abused as we all know it's a two-edge sword when you can do whatever you want. And so one of the things that would happen when we previously tried to give our marketers the ability to do anything they want is it would pick weird off-brand colors that didn't look right and layouts that were bizarre that makes designers heads bleed from the ears. And so we'd say, okay, so you can't do anything you want. So we actually can make blocks where it's like, yeah, you can pick the color from this list. Yeah, you can change the layouts within these constraints. So the designers are happy and the developers can verify it works everywhere in different devices. And the end user can do this, mix and match and make landing pages or whatever, but within constraints that makes it actually all acceptable and good. That is a beautiful thing to give power to folks but not quite the power to break it, according to you, right? This is a great thing. So with this, we were able to build those same pages in an afternoon. Three weeks to an afternoon is a huge difference and modularized, componentized stuff is part of how that works. So again, in this topic of how fast can I go to market, is a good example of how that is. Okay, the last one is experimentation. And again, this was one of the items, right? This is the fourth item experimentation. So as a marketing, even a mature marketing organization, most of what you do is well known. This is our brand messaging, this is the events we do, here's our homepage works, here are the campaigns we do, here's all the direct spend, I mean, it goes on and on for all the stuff that they do. But there's always this frontier of experimentation. What is the new thing? Let's try Pinterest, let's try to support, I don't know, VR, AR, I don't know, like we gotta try the new stuff, half of it won't work, maybe more than half won't work. But we have to, we have to try stuff, that's how it goes. So there's always that experimental angle and when it's experimental, all those other things I just mentioned that WordPress is so good about is exactly what you need. You need something that's not too expensive, you can't run super expensive experiments, that doesn't make sense. It needs to be easy and fast and get feedback fast. And since it will be wrong, you have to be able to change it quickly and be agile. Like what you need for experimentation is what WordPress is good at. So it makes sense. This is actually a screenshot from a AR-powered WordPress site that Anthony Burchell made. He's gonna be at Contributor Day and help me to run Contributor Day too so you can say hi to him anytime, but especially in Contributor Day if you're doing that. Great example of experimentation. Now, I know all of our marketer clients are not clamoring for us to make AR websites right now, but they will, because here's why. There will be a Christmas where a million AR headsets or VR headsets are sold. Will it be this Christmas? I don't know, I don't know when it'll be, but it will, and then the marketing world will go, oh, another place for ads and influence and I don't know whatever the heck things. We need to put stuff in that, we need to understand that and they're gonna need to experiment because nobody knows what the heck to do with that, right? So it's going to happen. And it's not just AR, obviously, it's just an example. There's many things and we don't even know how to predict. So how do you operate as a marketer in a world where you don't know what technology will come and you don't know what timeline it is? How do you prepare for stuff that you don't know? And the answer is by having tools that are easy to use, flexible, easy to integrate, inexpensive to experiment with. That's the tool set you need to attack the unknown. And that's what WordPress is. So when you're attacking the unknown, which you might call experimentation if you're a marketer, WordPress is the perfect tool, not the thing that it takes nine months to build and a million dollars. That's the wrong tool to use for attacking the unknown. So that's where WordPress is good. So I think we probably all agree that we would love it if WordPress were 50%, sorry, of the internet, as Matt has said for a long time and I also think is awesome, that'd be great. So I'd just like to say it won't be on laptops. 51% means mobile. And today that already means things like phones and tablets and the future, I don't know, all that stuff and other stuff, hard to say. But this is what 51% actually will mean because WordPress is at an incredible 32%. But there's still a gap between 32 and 51. That's a pretty big gap too. And that's where that stuff's gonna be. So whether you wanna look 10 years ahead at how to get to 51%, answer is mobile. Or if you wanna ask what do the majority of marketers, even enterprise today, what are they concerned with? What is their traffic? What makes them the money? What are they building? What are they looking at? And what are they using WordPress for? The answer is mobile in these specific ways. So I hope that you can use this to build products, to sell services, to make websites, to do all kinds of things for all sorts of folks using this in particular to say this is why you need to use my thing and attack this trend, which is of course not going away. So I hope that was helpful. Thanks. All right, we've got about 15 minutes for questions and answers. If you have a question, get your hand high because I'm gonna be running to you. What do we got? Okay, John Brown. So I like your point about PWAs becoming the future of things and that websites are still super important. One of the things we hear from clients who want us to build mobile apps is they're one of the app store. They want that visibility to access and get installed as an icon, which is very different than the bookmark experience. Can you talk about that all? Do you have thoughts on that? So I think people want that and I think it's vanity. Like if you ask them to produce data that shows that being in the app store means people will download the app, it's difficult to show that, right? So I think the truth is that won't help much but that doesn't work all the time. Yeah, but I want it to be in the app store though. And so it of course it is possible to use effectively a shell. In other words, it is an app, it is in the store, what it's really doing is downloading stuff from the web and et cetera. I think that's the best way to conserve development resources in the development of it. Like the way to not conserve is to say, look, we'll have a whole mobile website that does everything and also we'll make the whole Android app from scratch that does everything because that's a whole another team and also iOS and that's what we'll do. That is the way to spend the most amount of money, it's okay. But the best way is to say, somehow we have to reuse stuff, we can't be doing that. And so there's various technologies of course that allow you to say, I'm really just embedding a website inside of an app, Wink, but it's an app that goes in the store. And so that's the way to conserve. Now there are also rules because Apple doesn't really want you to do that because they want you to make apps because Apple wins if more things are in apps as opposed to the web. So it's sort of at odds. So Apple has these rules about what you can and can't do. So of course I don't wanna get into all these little details but that's your challenge is to try to put the web inside of an app to conserve development effort and then follow the rules so you actually stay in the app store. And they change the rules. So that's a difficult tightrope. In the mobile usage chart that was shooting through the roof, there was a point in 2011 where laptops sort of went there and they just plateaued since then. Any idea like what the hell happened in 2011 where it was like, I don't know. No, I don't know that there's an event. Just maybe the surgeons of phones into the market. I remember when I got an iPhone, I would do things like just go to a site because look, it's on the phone, right? Really, and so you show people. I wonder if this site works. So I don't know how much of that. There's always also a lag between technologies available and in general it really is usable. So is there a lag between 2008 that iPhone is launched and it really hits this critical mass of and people have them and websites are designed for them better so it's practical. Because a lot of things you go to a site and like I can kind of see it but not really and it's kind of slow. And so it didn't really work right. And so maybe it took some time. So I don't know. I don't know that there was like an event like this was launched or this technology was done. I don't know that it's like that. But it's possible that there's just simply this lag of technology diffusion that was needed for that to occur. This guy is doing wind sprints all day. I don't have a question. I just want to see you run. Now you talked about the PWA being able to view the website offline. So do you have certain techniques you've been doing to download that website to be able to do that? Yes and PWA is full of ideas for how to do that and frameworks for how to do that. The general idea is this. That in the first place, the content and that means images, it means text that you would pull from somewhere, it means dynamic stuff, personalized stuff, et cetera. All of the things that can mean content. The idea is that all that content should be listed as like here's what this page needs or here's what this thing does. And separate the system of displaying things from the system that goes and fetches things. So the idea is that I could fetch a page or other content that is needed by linked pages or the top most common content. The idea is whatever I might need to go fetch in terms of the content is separate subsystem from actually displaying pages. Thus, I can fetch and even cache the content separately from what it means to display and interact for a user to interact with that content. So that means I could open a website and it could go itself, decide I'm gonna grab content and from the top 10 articles and they could be doing all that in the background and you don't see that because it's this other engine that's sitting there doing all that. But then you go in the tunnel and the subway, the internet's out. But when you go to the next page, it asks this engine, hey, do you have this stuff? And it says, yeah, fortunately I do. Or maybe it cached it from a previous time when you were online or so forth. So by separating this, where's the content? How do I cache it? How do I get it from? How do I display it? The display can just pretend like the content's available all the time or of course operate in some fashion if the content's not available and the content can be stored. And you might say that's kind of like a browser cache but it's not because browser caches are fickle. They may not store it. It can be purged at any time. They have a finite size. Like there's all these things about a browser cache where that doesn't work quite right. So by declaring this is how we wanna use it, we want deterministic behavior here and so forth. You can actually control how that works really well as a developer. Now you might imagine, that doesn't sound simple though. It sounds like I have to, as a developer, think about stuff and categorize stuff and what does it mean to crawl stuff? How do I know? And that's right, that's part of the challenge is oh, if I'm gonna use this framework and get these benefits, I'm gonna have to design my sites in this new way. I have JavaScript on the front end pulling from this engine and an engine that works in some new way. Yes, I will have to re-architect the nature of the site in the first place to work this way as opposed to say being generated by a WordPress theme. That is the challenge is that it's a whole new way to architect. Why should I bother? And the answer is, ah, because if you bother all these really interesting features become available. So that would be the reason to do it. And then so basically the entire PWA might not be downloaded, just the majority of the most commonly used pages. It could be, you could download everything. It depends on the site. If you're CNN, you can't download all archives, right? But you could download certain things. It could be based on the user. This person often looks at this and that kind of topic so I'll download it from even more I've logged in and I've decided what content I want. It could maybe download it in the background. So there's no reason why the operating system of Android or iOS can't allow Chrome to download stuff even when you don't have the web browser open as long as you, the user, approved it, of course. So it can. So just like your pocket app is doing that or your mail app may be doing that or your to-do list may be syncing in the background, right? There's a lot of apps that sync in the background. Similarly, that could happen in the background. It could be that CNN's doing that in the background again hopefully with permission. And so that when you open it up, it's just there even when you're on the subway and even though you hadn't been there. So to you it looks like this is just there. That's like magic. What's really happening is there's this content engine which is being allowed to do things again hopefully in the same way. And if so, that really is a better experience for the customer. I might add one more thing which is their instant. Like you touch it and just goes like that. And you just go, what the heck just happened? And the answer is it already had the content. So in other words, the speed and performance angle that's so important here becomes perfect. And that is a huge benefit as well. So it's a lot of work to do, no doubt. But perfect performance offline and shoddy internet performance still perfect is pretty amazing as well. Thank you. Yes. So the concept of mobile first design creeps up. There's articles everywhere about it. I'm curious about your thoughts considering that we're gonna move from just these few things over here to possibly all these things over here. I mean, I don't know if there's an answer to it but I'm interested to hear how you would approach something like that. I think the answer is API first. The thing that all those have in common is they are on the internet. They can talk to something. What they don't have in common is what does it look like, what they do with it? It may not even be visible to the customer at all. It could be some kind of internal data that they do or data that they're sending out. Could be a sensor that's sending out data and there is no UX there at all. So what they do with it, what it looks like to the customer or to the user of that device whether it's displaying or not, whether it's just reading or it's writing that varies between all devices. But the fact that it's talking to something is the commonality. So to me, API first is the answer. And so if everything in the site can happen via API, then I can make a PWA. I can make anything in any technology. Actually, it doesn't even have to be PHP. It certainly doesn't even have to be JavaScript. Like I can do anything in any technology I wish. That's pretty powerful already. Also, any hardware that's on the internet can make a web connection. That's how it works now, right? We've decided that's how it goes. So API first means that your WordPress system, maybe it's the hub or the back end, is talking to everything whether it's a viewer display and user or whether it's something else. API first, I think, is the solution. That's cool. Thank you. And on this side, there was, wait, what? Oh, you're joking. OK. OK, great. Thank you so much. And our next talk will be in about 17 minutes.