 Christine Graham, thanks so much for being with us today. I really appreciate talking with you from your beautiful home with your nice backdrop. Oh, thank you. I've experimented with this. The beds and guestrooms don't work so well. Yeah, no, that's good. So you are a longtime advisor to nonprofits across the state. And we're having, obviously, a worldwide pandemic. What kind of reactions are you seeing with the folks that you work with in the last week or so? Well, first of all, I would say that I work with all kinds of groups, everything from health care to libraries to art centers and schools and environmental organizations. So I've been really bombarded with a very broad range of needs and services and everything else. And my overwhelming reaction is that the creativity that organizations are showing and the flexibility that they've shown in being able to just transform their service delivery overnight is so remarkable. And everything political and haggling and arguing and changing minds, all of that stuff is out the window. And organizations are just making things happen. Some of the delivery services are just amazing and accommodating things like kids who are home from school, even kids where there was no curriculum in place, free schools, daycares. All of a sudden, there are resources online for them and for their families to be able to put into place right away. Actually, one of my little concerns is that a lot of people who are isolated and have a computer don't have a webcam or they don't have a camera built into their computer. And I'm worried about people who are truly isolated. But a lot of neighbors are contacting them. And even I'm calling around to my neighbors and just saying, are you OK? Do you need anything? Everybody healthy? So it's a really inspiring time if you can just get past the panic and anxiety. So I know that in our case at CCTV and town meeting TV, we have retooled our whole operation and gone from in-person meeting coverage to taking Zoom meetings and streaming them and emergency announcements, getting them up quickly. What are some other examples that have are inspiring and best practice, do you think, in terms of nimble, problem-solving, reinvention? Well, let me focus a little bit on fundraising since that's what I do. And every organization now needs money either to pay for the new services they're providing or to keep their staff employed or to try to just keep the heat on in the building. Too bad this didn't happen in the summer, but we do have to keep heating our buildings. So from a fundraising point of view, one of the things I find most inspiring is that, first of all, many funders are stepping up and giving away so much more money than they were in the past. Family foundations that had a strict 5% a year donation rate are doubling it. And they're giving faster. If their grant application was due last week, they're going to hand out the money this week. They're not going to wait until July. So I'm seeing much faster action and much more giving dollar-wise, although a lot of it is in small chunks for quick emergency fixes. A lot of the restrictions on grants that are already in place are being lifted. So if an organization got a grant in February to do a very specific project, if they call their funder, the funder may say, don't worry about the restriction on those funds. Use the money for whatever you need it for. So that's a powerful thing. And loans are becoming more possible. Some foundations which have been able in the past to give away to individuals or businesses under certain circumstances but never used to are now considering helping small businesses that are in trouble, especially in small villages and providing important services. So I'm finding that all kinds of donors from individuals, family foundations, business corporate giving, every kind of giving, they're just moving faster, giving more, and being more flexible about what they'll support. And how do you know this? I mean, is there a list that people, I mean, do people just call you because you're the guru? How is this information being shared? Well, yes, a lot of people call me. And my policy right now has been, if you can get me, I'll answer your questions to the best of my ability. And also to understand that I also never lived through anything like this. So my experience is long but flawed in this circumstance. So I'm talking to everybody I can talk to and emailing with who I can email with. My colleagues and I in my business have started an occasional memo that we're sending to groups that we work with and groups we've worked with over the years making suggestions about what we think they should do. But I'm also really inspired by the way nonprofit groups all over the state are getting together and collaborating. So I was part of a call this morning with anywhere from 45 to 60, I'm not sure, leaders of different nonprofits around the state. It was set up by the Community Foundation in United Way but there was just a very, very wide range of both funders and organizations and individuals who work in the nonprofit fields and the consulting fields. Just talking about what's going on so that we're careful to not leave anybody out in supporting them and also being careful that we don't duplicate services because the need is so broad we wanna make sure you're capturing everything. And I think that that's a group that will continue to meet by Zoom or some online mechanism at least every week and continue to communicate. So organizations like the Community Foundation and the Vermont Food Bank and a lot of the statewide organizations are also highlighting things that are happening in individual towns and villages and everything from networks of volunteers and neighborhoods that are helping each other out all the way up to statewide distribution of food. And one of the things that I was really reinforced for me was that if a community has a need they shouldn't be afraid to call or email a statewide organization. If they don't know whether they can have people walk on their trails, call somebody at the land trust and ask them what their policy is. If they need a food distribution site in their town and don't have one, call the food bank and see if they can set it up. Normally that would take a long time but it's not gonna take a long time now. So I think that all of the nonprofit sector is talking to each other and coming up with interesting solutions. And so you said you've been sending out memos. What's the top three pieces of advice you have for nonprofits at this time? Well, I'd say that my number one first advice is to communicate with your people. And your people are the people who receive your services or come to your events, people who are your donors, people who are your prospects, people who are your neighbors and to be communicating with them and telling them what you're doing. Everybody feels like they wanna help and nobody knows really what they can do. And when you communicate, you're showing them that you're doing things but you might also be helping them to understand how they might be able to help. I'm not advising out and out aggressive fundraising but I also think that people are so aware of the need for giving these days that if you tell them what you're doing and it sparks something inside of them they're going to give. And I've heard of a lot of donors that without even being asked once they hear what you're doing, they give. But I also think that part of this is being honest. If an organization is in dire straits because they've lost something, for instance, like an arts organization that might have been depending on a single event in April for a third of their budget for the whole year they need to tell their donors that many of the people will be able to help and will give. And if they're not able to help, at least they understand why the services might be cut back some way. So I think communicating first of all about what you're doing and then being honest about what your situation is is so important. Those are probably the biggest things. And I think also to be kind and understanding and not to make assumptions that people won't give but also not to pressure people because everybody knows the need. Well, and also the people who have assets are taking a beating in the market. They are, but if you have enough assets that the market beating is hurting you this might sound a little cynical at this moment but you can take losses on your offset your income when you do your income tax next year. And so it used to be that we would encourage people to give appreciated assets but, and that was a better way to give. But if you have losses and you give you should sell your stocks or mutual funds and then give the money. And then later when the recovery's in place and you're declaring your income on your taxes again you'll be able to take the losses. So does this have echoes with 2008 or is this a different, I mean from a financial perspective hit on nonprofits or is this a different kind of situation? I think it's different because it affects it affects the health and the wellbeing and the service delivery before it affects the financial piece. And in 2008, it affected your finances and then you had to cut back your services. In this case, the need is accelerated or just hugely increased before you even see the financial hit. So I think it's different. And I'm not a financial wizard but when this first started I heard an interesting comment from somebody who said that this market crash was, I think the word was exogenic, something like that that it was caused by something that we couldn't predict from understanding the economy. And I think in 2008, there were economic things that caused this. And when it's caused by a virus it's out of everybody's financial understanding. So I think that the financial, the dollar amounts may be similar to 2008 but nothing about the cause and the impact on service delivery, nothing like it. Do you think that Vermont has particular resilient systems in place that position us well for this time as horrible as it is? I think the sense of neighborly goodwill and kindness and ability to reach out and just knowing our neighbors is our biggest asset. Biggest asset, lots of states have things like Front Forge Forum but not to the extent that we have it in Vermont. That is helping I think practically every community right now. And it lets people who aren't usually in the mix of community leadership step up and say here's something I could do, who needs it? And that really just looks to me like a kind of neighborliness we don't see anywhere else. I'm so glad I'm not in New York or LA or Houston right now where I live in an apartment building and don't even know anybody in my building. I'm in North Bennington right now and I know everybody who lives around here. It feels so reassuring. Are you, I'm feeling that it's hard to find the time to change service delivery and then look at my financial picture and do business planning and I'm not really sure how much revenue dropped to plan for. Are nonprofits talking to you about that? Do you have any thoughts about how to think about the revenue side? I don't think any nonprofit has actually asked me how much loss they should plan on. I think, I actually think everybody is so busy just like you are trying to just do the work. We know there's less money, but we don't have time to count it. We'll get to that point, but right now we're just trying to manage and I'm kind of glad that people are putting service delivery ahead of financial management. Yeah, I think, I agree. And then I think about all the businesses, straight up businesses, like seven days who laid off folks. Yeah, I heard. Yeah, and then just businesses in general who are, we're filling in demand for service, but the business community has just been cut off at the knees for the demand for consumer services. Right, right. Well, I guess that's another angle of what makes Vermont different from other places. I think our businesses are smaller, our reserve funds are smaller, our assets are smaller, our communities are smaller. So, the concept of a rainy day fund or reserve fund or cash reserves, that's less common here than maybe in bigger places with bigger businesses. So that is part of the challenge of being in a small place where you know everybody. If you know everybody, then you don't know enough people to sustain a business. Yeah, do you think there's enough philanthropic capacity for us to weather this over the next few years? I think we will weather it. I think the philanthropic capacity is probably not great enough to keep everything exactly the way it was before. Unfortunately, I think some organizations won't make it and some organizations may reinvent them themselves in ways that cost more or cost less. I think we're just gonna see so much change in every sector that some of these things are unpredictable. The only thing we can predict is that it's gonna be different. Absolutely, absolutely. What are some good resources that you advise for nonprofits and change makers to be looking at during this time? Any resources you like a lot? You mean like information? Yeah, just how to manage in these perilous times. I think maybe talking to your peers and colleagues is more useful than going online to some major source. I mean, every day I get 100 emails from things like the Chronicle of Philanthropy and board source and network for good and all of these national firms, consulting firms with lots of advice. And in general, I find I get better advice if I call another organization in Vermont and just ask them, how are you managing with this? Do you have any good ideas? And people are willing to share their good ideas. It's not a, we're not hoarding our ideas. So I think if you had a colleague and you called them and you brainstormed a problem you were facing, you might get a better answer that works for you in your location in Vermont than you would if you went to a national source. Yeah, I know Common Good Vermont is actually doing a good job of organizing the resources. So I think Morgan's been on that. So that's a good statewide resource, but you're right. There is no substitute for talking to an ally in the same field or in the same job that you have about what they're doing. Depending on what your service area is, all of the statewide kind of umbrella organizations, the Vermont Community Foundation, the United Ways, the Meals on Wheels organizations, the Vermont Arts Council has a lot of information. So whoever your go-to organization would be really important. The VCRD, the Vermont Council on Rural Development has been accumulating tremendous amount of resources that you can get if you go to their website. So there's, sorry. So VCRD I think is really reaching out to communities which is what they do anyway but doing it for what we need right now. So when I say talk to your colleagues I'm thinking who's your umbrella and see what they're recommending. Do you have any closing comments, ideas, words of inspiration? Well, you know, it's hard to be encouraging and inspiring when I know how much trouble we have but I actually feel optimistic. I feel as though we're going to learn so much through this. I think that the majority of our organizations will survive this and will be strengthened and will learn new things about serving us all better. I think that philanthropists are gonna understand better than they ever did before, that this is a meaningful thing for them to do, to be supportive. And I'm hopeful that maybe we're gonna all learn a few lessons about being less consumerist and less superficial and taking care of the earth. I mean, there could be some really good learning out of this. So that's what I'm hopeful for but of course, first we have to all stay safe and wash our hands and stay home and I think really keep talking to everybody especially you know, people you know who don't have anybody to talk to. Yeah, that human connection abides no matter what's happening and where we are confined. Right, right, yeah. Christine Graham, thank you so much for spending time with us today. We really appreciate it. Thank you, it was really a pleasure to do it. Thanks. Thanks. All right, that was awesome.