 Should we maybe we'll start with kind of the boring stuff of doing the minutes and then we can do a round of intros for Marguerite and then dive right in to hearing more about how the stipend process is going on with Essex and then maybe I can kind of give an overview of what's happening with creative discourse and then kind of get Marguerite's opinion on that as well before have saying goodbye and then kind of finalizing our proposal for next steps before doing kind of the report backs and kind of like the rest of our regular standing agenda so that's not good. And Michael did you hear that? I just saw you okay great cool I was like you just put your headphones on noted what does that mean okay um so folks want to pull up the minutes um if anyone has any changes or amendments? I'll make a motion to approve the myths as circulated. I'll second. Jeremy Stuckins all in favor aye. Aye. Any opposed? Great. Motion passes. Cool Marguerite welcome thanks so much for joining with us my name is Shayna. I'm here pronouns. I live on Kent Street in Montpelier and I work with people with type 1 diabetes on insulin pricing reform in my other hat. I don't know yeah what else we should have like some norms around how we do introductions every time I feel like I'm making it up from scratch so anyway go ahead Jeremy do you want to go next? Sure good morning my name is Jeremy Baudry a resident of Montpelier for going on almost seven years I've been on the committee for a little bit more than a year I think yeah that's me welcome. I'm Michael Sherman I'm also a resident of Montpelier I've been here over 30 years I've lost track of the number exactly but and I am the last remaining original member of this committee so it's been a long a long time. I'm Marguerite Ladd I'm the assistant manager of Essex town and village soon to just be the deputy manager of the town as the legislation moves through that process so it's you know it's own excitement but yeah I guess you tell me what do you what do you want to know? Yeah I'm not sure how much camera and sugar with you but we worked with creative discourse in 2020 right yeah 2020 to kind of do a process of surveying our members and surveying our members surveying residents and people who use city services and kind of identity-based focus groups to really figure out what are what are some proposals of things that the city can do to be more equitable kind of like a first cut of prioritization process and as a part of that some things were pretty you know I want to say easy because I was not the one doing them but like updating our website of our history and things like that and then one thing that we're looking at taking on is one of the recommendations was stipends and I understand that you know creative discourse also worked with Essex to do stipends I reached out to like some other folks that I know in Essex and kind of got forwarded some materials about what that what that stipend process looked like I understand that it passed last year and that it is went into effect in January you know you kind of had six months ramp up time to be able to offer stipends and that was kind of passed as a budget item on on on last year's budget so similarly it is a we've got $30,000 from this city to be able to have stipends for city committees that's kind of a one-year pilot proposal and we have a lot of committees a lot of members in Montpelier as you probably know and and so that $30,000 does not cover all of the you know would not would not cover all the potential need that could happen so one thing that we're looking at is kind of like how to prioritize what kind of process we could go through in order to do that prioritization and and that because it's a pilot proposal wanting to see the impact and see the change that's happening so wanting to do a kind of a pre-survey and a post-survey and then for kind of consulting without looking at potentially on contracting with creative discourse again on kind of like a really short-term low our basis to kind of review the materials and things like that so that's kind of I think a little bit of where we are let me know if you have any questions but then I think what we're looking to hear from you about is kind of what recognizing your you know about six months ahead of where we're gonna be how has that like kind of how how did you guys come up with your structures and your systems like what's working what's not working what are some tensions that you're holding in in kind of implementing the stipend process actually let me pass there Michael Jeremy Caraman did any any other context yeah do you have any questions about that or yeah no yeah um yeah so that's all yes great accurate reconnaissance on your part I would say that the yes so essentially the village actually passed there so that it went in during the fiscal year with an effect so we had two different okay which just yes adds to the to the fun so we had the village you know committees we also share committees so sometimes we have village residents and you know with who are also town residents but those who are not village residents on committees as well and that went into effect in January so we were I did I actually wasn't I wasn't working for us it's when it got when the policy got passed and so when I came on I was sort of tasked with like okay now do this and so and so I would say yes so the first thing we were looking at kind of I want to say first but one of the versus same similar thing is we have two different kind of budgets and the village was like everyone's automatically in but they could opt out they set that in their policy whereas the town set in their policy anyone could opt in so you would need to opt in in order to get this stipend so that was kind of how they were working with the budget and how they just for preliminarily to your point of you know trying to guess a little bit but also kind of estimate how much they might need or who might actually you know want to use the stipend program to begin with and we've already had a few who you know didn't you know opted out or whatever that kind of thing totally depends let's let's the person decide what they need basically instead of putting us in the seat of trying to prioritize or decide for them so that was that actually in the policy which was helpful to some degree and at least just to your point of having to carry out any sort of prioritization it just at this point leaves it in their hands I would say this was a very iterative process and we've already changed our form two or three times so the next thing we sort of looked at was our finance policies that we had in place in the municipality and or both they're a little different but just looking at that and we had to decide you know once we got passed like opt-in opt-out how do we figure that out for someone then getting past do we do we pay them as employees or do we pay them you know sort of as kind of like a consultant or you know like volunteer kind of thing as we do with other you know other instances that we have and so that's where a lot of the discussion has happened because we also have you know select board member you know we have other committees that we already pay stipends to and those we do as employees so we were like well maybe we would do this all as employees but then you know we're looking at an HR department with one person that is gonna be inundated with employee paperwork you know potentially like you're saying we have lots of committees as well lots of people on them is that really you know is that bottleneck gonna be you know just the worst thing that allows it so there's a barrier that they can't pay so that was one of the first things we sort of talked about and we went with paying them as sort of more the consultant route for now I will say that having rolled this out a little bit more we're actually thinking that you know depending on sort of how the budget goes this year and etc all of that maybe switching that actually to move it back to employee and part of that is because we run into all of these issues with the insurance and and so we're with passive so they've been one wonderfully helpful I don't mean to say that but I mean you know they're working on it this is the systemic part they're working at it from their up levels of what how they cover that or how they don't and would we get into you know how do we how do we get ourselves make sure we're we're protecting ourselves and protecting our taxpayers at the same time as trying to get them this help so that has gone back and forth a few different times that we've gotten different information during different steps of the process as to what kind of paperwork they would need at first it was just okay they just need you know they don't need to fill out any of the sort of hold harmless non-employee paperwork that we asked for all other kind of non-employee type payments and so we were like okay that's less paperwork that's good because sorry if you hold there for a minute we were having on the equity level already the fact that that people would have to fill in the W right like how do we deal with that and that's something that's a finance policy that we need to be able to track our dollars and so that's a whole equity conversation we were sort of having in this department over here whereas you know in our just our passive finance insurance department we were kind of having a different conversation of what would we even need you know what kind of paperwork are we asking people to fill out and what kind of barriers is that presenting already you know and so we sort of narrowed it down that we you know it's the six hundred dollars for the IRS if you don't get paid more than that then technically we don't need the W9 but is that fiscally responsible and safe given what you know GFOA says or what those policies are in place and how comfortable does finance you know feel about that so it's sort of like bringing all of this along and just you know and a lot of people were having I would say you know just felt the systemic I just think it's such a great great pointing out of how far deep it goes and how kind of have to unbury all of these things are like ah yes this is built in this is built in this is built in which is how we got here sort of in the first place so so we went to WNAT we were like okay well we'll just have everyone fill out the W9 even though we you know we're a little bit from the equity standpoint that's not our best option but we are you know maybe there'll be a way to get we're trying to look for some other way so we put some help on there and how to fill out a W9 how to get help with taxes that was sort of our option was to put on the form ways to ask about you know translation what is W9 why would you need it what would it do to you you know like who could you call for free for tax advice that kind of thing so that was kind of our moderate approach at least for the moment hoping I'm sorry I don't know if Cameron's catching all this but like can you can you also share the document of just totally yeah no problem and yes if you have questions at any time feel free to call no problem and so I think you know so we just sort of went with that for the moment and then yeah so hoping that maybe in the future as we work with financing through this we can find a way that not leaving a W9 is still satisfactory for all of our taxpayers and all of those kind of assurances we need there so that's the way we went there and then we later heard that actually you know we do need those forms from them as well so now not only are we asking about W9 they now need to fill out a non-employee form and like full-time which just seems like seems very for the equity standpoint like you know this is just going to be a barrier for sure and so you know we're working with it so okay well we'll do that for now of course and like let's keep working this problem so you know as we sort of work back and forth it seems that actually it's okay don't need those two forms for this type of payment because it's up to a certain amount I don't know all the insurance so I don't want to get that wrong here I won't say that here but but you'd have to work with your insurance company to figure that out so you know we have a few of those forms from some people we'll just hold them and we're just not going to kind of push on it at this point because we've also sent out a new form to our community probably like three times now so we're trying to not be confusing and you know so so that's I would say that's where we're at just with the form itself so we're hoping we'll probably readdress it in the future and move to maybe a employee basis just because it's less paperwork in the long run and we think it will work just if we did it better in a different way the other part of this was that we needed to figure out like staffing then for each committee most of our committees have a staff member but not all and that you know we didn't want to task suddenly a volunteer with sort of that kind of you know just it just suddenly hand them off with that kind of having to do that kind of paperwork you know that kind of thing some of them sure no problem others just aren't that's not what they signed up for in the first place so we worked you know that was another part of it was working to make sure every staff representative every committee had a staff representative and every staff representative now takes attendance because that's so that's the whole like reporting on attendance and how do we do that part so now they take attendance every meeting and I'm sorry I forget now we've changed a few times but I think it's up so you can get paid up to six months retroactively of attendance but like past that you know if you don't fill out say you didn't opt in but then you want to those types of things or you whatever then we're putting us at least some marker on there for finance to like give them just stop the end as well for our budget and those types of things so that we can do proper predicting but basically the staff member then takes attendance and then submits it you know to at this point to the finance department this is also something that it's not the most ideal yet so maybe you know we're still ironing out what job maybe that should be but for the moment that's where it's at and so they sort of just say yes these people were there and if those people have opted in you know then we sort of paid them out that way in that sense the other part is the point there is not like the people on the committee don't necessarily know who's getting this right then then who's not right there's like a divide try and make it just right it's just streamlined we don't need to put that into kind of you know volunteer hands that can be staff hands keep the keep it where you know sort of confidential under those kinds of right guidelines and right people who have signed up to the end of our confidential regulations you know just air it out there just one question about was was the sole reason to put a staff member just to take attendance because otherwise the other way to do that would be just to be using the minutes of the meetings which we always start with recording who's there it's true sorry yeah I think you could we talked about that and I think part of it was just we were some of the minutes we get from some of our committees aren't always also timely and as accurate as we might want or hope just cuz and so we thought let's just try this for now and see how it goes and if we can get a feel that it's you know fine and unnecessary then maybe we can read dressed it and that sort of thing part of us was also like maybe every committee should have a staff anyway just it's kind of helpful to have for the committee to have some sort of you know pillar they don't necessarily have to go to every meeting hopefully in the future to your point but just to have that kind of back and forth with municipality and most of them had so it wasn't like we were applying a new one to many it was probably like three or four a handful that didn't have one assigned already but you're right the minute that was something that came up that we just were like let's just kind of keep it try to keep it as even as possible again so that we didn't think you know we didn't have time we were a little behind and even rolling it out so we didn't do a pre-survey like what you had mentioned I think that's a great idea I would love to see you know what those impacts are so I'm hoping that part of having a staff along the way is that we might be able to you know take some of that knowledge and have it in-house a little bit easier during while we're going and have that just to see like oh no it hasn't changed much or yeah you know it just keeps it a little bit more so that I have it more readily when we talk about this and department heads there's that kind of thing um that was a lot I had one more thing to get now I wanted to mention but maybe it will come to me do you have any other questions or yeah my area excuse me I'm curious if you had to do any kind of public outreach or promotion of this stipend to the community just to make it make folks more aware of it that was it was an option to encourage maybe participation from other folks who might not know so that really participate right we haven't done tons we did a little bit of it and we definitely put it in like some of our equity newsletter that we rolled it out that it's you know this new thing honest we were a little bit like let's get it underway so we don't scare people off like the form changes first and we are hoping to kind of go out there June is sort of when we have our reappointment big deal situation and we have you know we're planning an event around that as well this year that we haven't had before about how to you know have you know like for just an equity standpoint hoping to have Ali Dan come and talk about being on a committee and being a new American and those kinds of things so we're hoping at that point to actually really push the communication of it and to really you know kind of put it out there in a in a way that's not just at a different public meeting you know or just mentioning it sort of as an update which is all we've really done thus far it's sort of updating people but I'm not sure how far we've reached with that in order to like you said see what that impact actually might look like oh that was the one thing that came up often was people wanted to just pay them at the end of the year you know like we do or quarterly or something to that effect as we do with the other like commissions that are paid already and that was something that we talked a lot about and just wanted them to get paid as soon as possible after their meeting because it's a cash flow issue that we're you know at least with from the equity standpoint that we had talked about we didn't want them to have to wait for that so that was something we talked about for a while and felt that you know the sooner the better actually so that's why it's a little different than like the select board stipend or that kind of thing so yes that's sort of it that's a question um yeah it's a flat rate right like you're giving the same amount per meeting regardless of like length of meeting or anything else really yep and then there's a type of tap on that like if people are on multiple committees it's just once they hit a certain threshold then they have to go through other tax stuff yes I mean there is for yes we kind of at this point we haven't run across like someone who's on tons and tons who submitted yet so we're sort of waiting a little bit case by case just because we don't have tons of people yet that have shown that that's going to be an issue um but we do for example um I think we right now we said well we'll pay the higher like say it was like a select board member that was then on another committee or something um we would pay the higher rate right now so they would just continue to get their their select board stipend and potentially not the extra on top at this point and you're like $50 per meeting is that right right now I'm a couple of other questions for others jump into um or do you know of other cities or towns that are doing this and have you been in touch with them as well or you're kind of been making it up as far as I know don't know of any and I yes if you do I would love to talk to them I'd be a little bit like we are on this island it'll love the fog um yeah and then you're a few months in and I'm knowing that committees change over so slowly essentially um are you seeing it have an impact of diversifying committees do you have any goals of like over five years changing 10% or you know like is there do you have do you have any like metrics of success right I don't know that we have metrics of success as of yet I would say again that's probably just because I don't even know no yeah only it's not been very long and our forms have changed so many times I wouldn't be surprised if that ended up being a bit of a confusing barrier just sort of as we wanted to make sure we really got it right on the form and you know went with that so again like I said I'm hoping come June sort of that we can get maybe a bit like take our baseline then even though it's sort of been an effect you know I just kind of lats for our side of getting it evened out and then hopefully by June we've really got it going and then we can take that baseline of who gets appointed and then see over like you said three years if you know us intentionally getting the word out and really expanding beyond our normal sort of communication lines um if then you know come three years from now we've actually had a different type of impact now that I don't know quite how to measure if that's stipend or not yet and don't have a survey to that effect or if you know maybe it'll be because we have some other intentional communication things that we're also trying to roll out and maybe it's just all of them um but but it's a good thing to think about um just if there's ways to capture you know maybe it's just even asking people in two or three years you know if this was a deciding factor for them or something but yeah okay then my last kind of main question is is we have $30,000 to work with which is not enough for every city committee participant so if everyone applies we would run out of money right um pretty quickly um so there's like a lot of different ways that we could do this you know we could and knowing that you guys have done it differently but kind of seeing how this rolling out like we could do this as a first come first serve until we run out of funds we could choose a few committees to start with we could have a certain number of seats per community they all seem like bad options and so if it's like wonder if you had any like recognizing the constraints that not constraints but like recognizing that the the city has really given cjack and staff a lot of um flexibility with an autonomy to be able to roll this out like would love your thoughts on kind of what you see as being the best practice here yeah or what not best practice but like yeah recognizing the constraints is what would you recommend right I guess at first I would maybe be very clear about just but just be very transparent about the money issue and then if you did have something where you know you had people opt in or or or just to see even right or take a you know like some kind of loose poll or because I was surprised at how many folks we've had who have opted who have not opted it who this have just you know and have done it intentionally like I'm like oh do not see the form or just what I'm making sure like are about our form you know but but have been like you know I'm good I don't you know I don't I don't want to take this stipend well right and that's because like the people who are in the committees now have done it without knowing that exactly yeah so I guess yeah I would start there and just see um but then I mean yeah that priority we have the same conversation that's really hard I mean you could do sort of you know some of the you could look at some of your committees where there are you know sort of more of the BIPOC marginalized and see if they self identify that way I hate you know I'm not trying to put identities on folks but we also know or and we also know that some of our committees are just are you know more intentionally at least because we've been working on this you know with creative discourse in such this far you know we are we just know that there are more in need of of the stipend and they are the ones who kind of put it forward in the first place of something that would be a barrier for them you know some of the ones on the committees we have now that weren't formed that through creative discourse we formed and part of that survey you know to like you all had in 2020 was stipend you know for the meetings so I guess maybe looking at some of your committees and the makeups and just seeing if there are some more than others where people have been louder about it or have been more obvious about their needs but again it's yes that sketchy area of like you just don't want to go to a committee wow everyone here seems like you might need a stipend like what is that that's just awful practice right and then we want to get more exactly we need the stipends on all the committees right yeah yeah um so that wasn't super helpful to you but I guess the first thing to start then would be you know do it until it's all used up because that at least blanket lets them opt in it's very transparent that it will get used up but then if we need more of it then that's something they can control when they go to the budget you know as voters or requesting from the council more and you'll have that data point of they want more but we used it all up already you know what on these days or whatever but at least that you'll more you know you don't have to decide for people and it's equitably just sort of okay you know we're using this you know as long as you're transparent from the start too I think then it's understood that they won't get it past the 30 thou you know that's all but I would just want to make sure that you were very clear about that I guess Michael Jeremy Cameron yeah I think I just want to kind of confirm some things that I heard as we should be looking toward really trying to resolve in these first months it sounds like kind of the financial details and the insurance details try and get as clear on that as we can before we start inviting people in and figuring out our process we know like what we need what we don't need and so that's the work that I think Cameron has to do which hopefully we can help too is that right do you think yes that's I would start there and and at the same time like you're having these conversations now you have some limitations around the 30,000 you know that kind of thing so that when you roll it out you know sort of kind of how you're applying that money or you know to your to your point there yes thank you okay okay so maybe I'll transition to the next piece here if there's yeah anything else comes up on the faith in peace would love yeah love to circle back um but so yes we've worked with creative discourse in 2020 we've not been working with them in 2020 or like fiscal year 21 we've not been working them in fiscal year 22 yet and kind of one of the next big things is to do kind of a we're we're talking about doing like a big equity summit and you know bringing folks together and just because of COVID and everything else we're kind of delaying that decision till this summer and reached out to after our last meeting reached out to create a discourse to say here's like our draft survey can you are we looking for the right are we asking the right questions here like do you have any thoughts or reflection like can we just like you know asking for their opinion on things and they were like this is consulting please like you know like please have a contract with us and so they shared back a a contract that I shared with you guys that is um for five months so March 15th July 15th like you know and and to hold five 60 minute coaching sessions um you know having them send out emails to city participants who participated in the equity audit because you know as you know there that's kind of that's also had that divided between you know so we don't have those contacts and things and the city doesn't have those contacts and then to like review and offer suggestions and the kind of the the that contract would be like $3,000 for those five meetings and sending out those email that thanks for a multiracial team of co-facilitators for $1,500 for a single facilitator and I think I got this and then my kind of got reaction was like that's a lot of money for five hours of meetings and for sending out some emails um and then in my rate like and then I paused and then was like and it's more about like the relationships and that expertise and like all of that background work and so I think I you know we haven't talked about this at all yet but I I think as someone who's like worked with them a lot a lot more if he just had any like that reaction of being like oh yeah it's definitely going to be super helpful to have them look over yeah I mean like now that I'm asking this question I'm like maybe that's like you know confidential business thing and maybe you don't want that on recorded on this call or so you know like so I apologize for this and putting you in a tricky spot but I'm just being like before kind of we have our own internal conversation like if you had any reaction um yeah I think you know it is the relationships that are invaluable that's sort of what we learned and also having it not come from the government at this point is also something that is very beneficial and at this day and age you know it costs good well not it costs you know what it costs um I guess to do that and so um I think you know it really depends on how effective and I don't know if I had had that I would have taken it um as an option I think just because I would say our forms like I you know we're still working on it and by no means probably is it the most um equitable layout or you know it probably we could be doing much you know better and we will continue to try and work towards that um but but um I think you know in some ways that um will help you even if you know you can't answer all the questions they come up with or whatever from their getting from their survey it may help you in three years to know where you want to go with this program even you know for the stipend program I mean just because often what comes back are things that like yeah we need to change at a much higher level um and that's good to know just in your organization because then there are things like Cameron can work with on the you know internal policies whatever things like that that that then can be worked through um but you know might not affect necessarily your rollout right now um just because you kind of you want to roll it out so you're going to do you know go with imperfection for the moment instead of letting that stop you um but but they are like they just yeah they have such great feedback usually and um and if they're going to email those folks yeah I think it could give you some very good insight that our form won't doesn't have currently you know it is just the power dynamic though us in our own municipality forming it so thanks so much oh yeah well I don't want to drag margaret into further debate about yeah so sorry no thank you you're welcome if you have other questions sorry it was a lot um but if you have other questions yeah feel free to reach out you know where to find me can so well I'll follow up and and try to get some of these forms for you from you and um just documents so thank you perfect thank you thank you all and thank you for your time appreciate it of course and um yeah share whatever you learn happy to change our yeah all right thanks have a great day bye bye how you feeling about all that camera and that was a little um you know so uh my initial feedback is going to be sort of with this creative discourse thing and sort of to Jeremy's point a lot of this work is going to inevitably fall on me and um it would be very great and I would very much welcome having um the creative discourse to help me through that so if that's something that we can maybe propose adding or fleshing out a little bit in that limited scope and time proposal with them that would be great if they could like review the policies that I write or you know just to have another pair of eyes on them because you know when things are assigned in in this um organization we don't have a lot of administrative staff uh we have very limited administrative staff so it would just be me and like the finance director trying to hash this out so it would be great we have clarity on what um multi-racial team co-facil at home is that two people is it and do we need two people is one person enough um what what's what's your view about that I mean two people almost is uh larger than our committee at this point yeah and I think also like they recommended like having five one-on-one meetings and I was like I don't that's I don't think we like the committee needs that I think that's more like Cameron needs five hours of their time to be able to like support that right yeah right but yeah yeah I I think it's you have the money you know I think it would be important to to work with them on this part of you know their recommendations I do think that some of what they proposed is sort of not uh I don't want to say helpful because I think that's the wrong word but I think you guys know what I'm trying to say it's like to get to implementation how well how do we best leverage them to get to implementation okay um can someone remind me what this this email was meant to do or contain in their proposal an email sent to the audit focus groups I thought that was to let them know about the stipends and okay people to apply and stuff that's how I'm reading that so I don't yeah yeah I support Cameron your requests for outside assistance I think that's super important it's also making me wonder if we could as a committee do another round of just surveying the environment for other cities that maybe are now thinking about this who haven't before because yeah it was so helpful to hear Marguerite and imagine if we had like two or three more conversations like that with other folks like that could be really beneficial so I can ask um I'll ask some of my networks if they know of anyone or if y'all can find any communities that are doing this like I will I will I will get them here to talk to you yeah I wonder if Rattle borough is a place to to inquire but they because they had a very deep police review and it sounded like they were very very interested in in that kind of stuff and I would expect that at Brattle borough I know what yeah I last Vermont leo cities and towns last year and they didn't know of anyone besides Essex so um but that was last year too so yeah it also be so great if someone had done this for like three to five years and could report back on how that's going and that doesn't seem to exist yeah well I guess it means we're on the vanguard which is exciting we're we're pushing something forward yeah um so Cameron just real quick just to go I mean go back to the creative discourse response so I think what does it sounds like um we want to ask is a multiracial team was that a two people team like yeah do we want do we want the two person team and then it sounds like we want the five monthly six community coaching sessions hospital patient sessions to be more focused on reviewing the materials um but does that seem like the right amount of time does that seem um yeah any other clarification or or adjustments that I should make to this um this RFP I really think it needs to be focused more on helping um with like the policies and procedures review and I think maybe helping us with at least like the kickoff procedures right like a kickoff meeting maybe or uh the next committee on committees or something not that maybe the one in April they could talk about it but I don't think we'll be ready with any sort of rollout by then but yeah maybe the next one right like one happening in the summer it could help us with some sort of like kickoff here's how this is going to roll out here's what we did and here's what you know C. Jack did um to make this a reality here's how it's going to work kind of thing I think that's I would also I'm sorry Michael no it's just to to present to present cd with an agenda a set of agendas I mean on this meeting we want x y z on on the second meeting we want a b c or that kind of stuff so that they come prepared and and and we're prepared and we have specific questions or if they're gonna if we're gonna devote one or two of those five to having them just working with with Cameron that they should know that and then Cameron can have her own agenda with them you know I think being specific about that is helpful because it makes them focus on what their advice you know what what kind of advice is being requested and they can then ask for information that they would need rather than just going in there and you know sort of off the cuff stuff so uh for the next step just recognizing our next meeting is going to be kind of right when this is rolling out and probably be finalizing them do I have everyone like well like what yeah is it okay if Cameron and I do kind of that back and forth with creative discourse and make a decision between now and the next meeting like up to three thousand dollars have it be more focused on policies and procedures be more about and and launch and make a like finalize the the proposal and sign on the dotted line kind of over the next two weeks is that okay support that yeah I think that's we should need to put that in in the minutes as the proposal authorizing the two of you author and all the other things that you were specific about that and then we have it as a record and I'll I'll make that motion I was about to say that sounds like a motion to me all in favor say aye yeah any of those great um okay um thank you um I think the other kind of proposals that were discussed here were having it be a first come first serve um stipend process um I thought her rationale for it means to me and I just I didn't know if anyone that that was just like a big topic of conversation and so um do we want to continue to have that be an open conversation or do we want to close that decision you mean the idea of we've got a finite amount of money come and get it it's first I mean I for some reason that hadn't really occurred to me in the kind of complex algorithms of equity um there's something really clean about that that I I think makes a lot of sense and knowing that this is a pilot I mean and being very clear and transparent about that and it sounds like it probably would be a lot easier to manage and again thinking about Cameron's role in all this too so I'm I think I'm leaning towards that is that for all committees or when we're all right so we're not we're not going to use a sample of committees yeah okay you know so my initial thought on that is one it is a lot cleaner and it does support the idea of is this enough money right I think it will be easier to get to is this enough money my only hesitation and what I would want to figure out with creative discourse is how do we track that how do you track over time if this makes a difference to certain committees demographics if there's no like these five committees are getting money offered to them over time that has diversified who is on the committee if we say all of the committees I don't and some don't take it I don't know it gets that tracking gets a little harder for a pilot program because that's the idea is the pilot program is not let's see if it works and people take the money it's let's see if it works and it gets us to our goal which is diversifying the committees and so that's my one concern about that is that it will be harder to track over time and it will be harder to see the impact but I don't know so I think that would be something I I also would want creative discourse to weigh in on because I don't know how to track I wouldn't know how to track that yeah I wonder just thinking out loud I wonder if there is a there is some kind of a intake survey mechanism we could use for any new committee members coming on that could track you know well if it wasn't for this type and no I wouldn't be considering this so but I think you're right creative discourse should should have some good ideas about that I just want to remind us that we um sorry my phone is ringing right um we are our title is social and economic just uh justice and and I um and while I appreciate the need for but defining diversity in in racial or or ethnic terms I think we have to say diversity also accounts for economic condition so and so just so we keep that in mind you know if we may not get the kind of ethnic racial diversity that we want out of this but we may we might get the economic diversity that we're we're we also also want I mean I don't it's not either or for me but I think we need to keep that in mind that it has to be it should be both yeah I think it's a pilot survey oh sorry I just think yes Michael and as a pilot I think we use the pilot to kind of measure the change before we set you know like maybe three year five year goals about what we want our committees to look like in terms of um diversity over that longer term so I don't I think you're right and it's not they're not mutual I think we don't know yet what we want our committees to kind of kind of be representative of yet and I think that's what we're using sorry I just say we're like we're kind of using housing you know housing rentals like if you you know have other family like using the like some of these other things as like the metrics of tracking that social and economic diversity sorry go ahead Cameron no that's exactly what I was gonna say so thank you um in the survey okay so um sounds like we're not gonna make that decision right now because we're going to bring it back to creative discourse cool okay um anything else with that or should we move to the committee on committee planning oh uh report back for and before moving to city council and city committee report back sorry about that recognize me have 10 minutes left sprint to the finish um I could not make the meeting oh my god like three weeks ago now the or two weeks ago the the last city council meeting that Cameron pointed out for us and yeah I didn't know like if there is any report back from that or from other committees that we should be aware of I feel like I don't even remember what we talked about last council meeting I think it was a police review committee something something oh yeah right so yes so the um trying to find it now there we go okay um so yeah we did talk about the um police review committee and the steps um just things that you should know about is we're still working on community engagement after use of force incidents that's a big one I think that's one of the more important ones um we are uh working really hard to develop protocols the police review committee uh some members have continued to say they'll help us with that we're also implementing a chaplain program um by the way uh in our rooms department who will definitely have a role in that because we've basically come to the conclusion that it shouldn't be us or the police anyway leading any sort of restorative community conversation they should be part of it but not the leader in that so the chaplain program will become important there and there's a couple things that obviously we as the city as a monolith as staff don't really um support and so we'll need to bring um the community and the council in to leave the conversation on and we've talked about that there was like the the ordinance changes for public drinking and prostitution so those council has to continue to talk about um the remaining ongoing conversations are those two the policy on fair and impartial policing and a civilian oversight committee so those are things that are um still on the docket to talk about at council meetings so let's see you know um also last night um I went to the DRC um and was approved for a zoning permit to add lockers behind the rec center for those experiencing homelessness to use to store belongings so we're slowly chugging away at that that project so hopefully I have more substantive updates on that soon exciting I didn't realize that what's happening that was moving cool um anything any other reports thank you um so then also so the last thing we had was our goals and agenda setting for the community on committees and I feel like this is a bigger conversation than five minutes and so maybe I'm thinking what we can do is just say the big picture things and then I can come back next meeting with like an actual proposal for discussion rather than testing it out all together but I think we had talked about and I just don't see this like in our notes essentially was like talking about wanting our goals of the meeting to be rolling out this typo and like that's why we're having this meeting now at this timing and everything else and then the second goal is being continuing that like relationship building and cross pollination and networking between all the different committees um and so do those still sound are those are those the two goals like are there any other goals for this committee on committees um and yeah anything else to kind of hold while making this proposal and then does that make sense for the next step is to come back with a proposal next week next two weeks that makes sense I guess I would maybe this is just a sub point but the relationship building I think it kind of happens by the convening but it's it's also it seems like checking in on the equity conversation that we started at the first committee of committees meeting um and I don't know what the details of our that but we we certainly have the credit discourses report to look at update some maybe other things that have been happening on the equity front um and maybe the open kind of more divergent conversation about what are people thinking of right now what's on the horizon what are you are there new concerns other than the last time you met that kind of thing great writing this all down I'm assuming that in the discussion of rolling out the the stipends we will uh be asking are we asking or are we telling the committee chairs what their responsibilities or their their what they need to do is that a is that a question we pose to them or is it here's what we think is your your role in in this and respond to that which way which way is that going to go I think that kind of depends on how y'all decide to roll it out right yeah like is it staff's responsibility to take uh a proper minutes that the word I was looking for was attendance um so that kind of thing I think that would be easy to have a conversation about once we figure out what the rollout is but I will say that we very much depend on uh people taking accurate minutes but Marguerite's comment about that was very true and I think like our have what we're telling people to do is to do the pre rollout survey um and kind of walking people through why that's important and right giving the context for that and how to do that in the committees um because I was thinking we're like definitely telling them to do and then be like and heads up that other stuff is coming so yeah right okay that that that was my understanding of it but I just thought we should be clear about how we want to present this to them that here's what we want you know we're expecting you to do and uh and and here's where what we hope you will do as exercising your leadership role with them ask questions to us response okay I do have another minute I'm gonna do another call in two minutes and I would love to give another cup of coffee and like feel in that right now um but is there anything else that we should really make sure get to say it said today or um see you guys in two weeks okay yeah so it's really productive thank you thank you all all right see you bye