 Hi. Good evening everyone and welcome to the June 24th meeting. We are now recording and are going live. So I'll call the, I'm calling the meeting to order as the co-chair of the community safety working group. Governor Baker's extension of the March 12 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law allows us to hold this virtual meeting of the community safety working group. Given that we have a quorum, I'm calling the June 24th 2021 meeting of the community safety working group to order at 533 p.m. I will call upon each member of the working group by name. At that time, they should unmute their mic and say present. This will indicate that they can hear me and we can hear them. Please remember to mute your mic after saying present. Miss Pat. Yeah. Mr. Vernon Jones here. Miss Walker here. I want to take a couple of minutes to review the agenda. Miss Walker and I rearrange the agenda to factor in the short amount of time that we have Mr. answer possible questions about the RFB or the IFB. But first we're going to hear public comment that members of the public wants to provide the working group. We will not respond to your comments but listen to your comments carefully. We'll then hear comments from members who might have something to report. For this meeting we have designated the last part of the meeting to debrief the town council meeting. So if you have comments in regard to the town council meeting we ask that you hold off until the second part of the meeting. The agenda rearranged to fit Mr. Backelman schedule is to go over the IFB to talk about the priorities for the second part of our charge to have a lengthy discussion on the resident oversight board to have a conversation about press release a press release and further communication and then to designate the last part of our meeting to talk about the town council meeting. Our first our first order of business is the public comment section. If any member of the public would like to make a statement please raise your hand. I will recognize you and ask Miss moisten to turn on your microphone. I ask that all comments be limited to no more than three minutes. The working group will not be responding to your comments but listening carefully. I see no hands up at this moment but we can wait a few moments if you would like. We can wait like 30 seconds. So since there's no public comments will go into the members report. Again, I just want to remind people that we're going to spend time to talk about the town council meeting. I want to now open this time up for any members who have anything to report to the group. If no one miss Pat is that your hand. So I just want to really acknowledge the fantastic event that happened this weekend routine. So all the organizers, especially to miss moisten, I even saw the town manager like, you know, running around caring, you know, what about everybody worked so hard. It's great. I had a lot of fun. So, thank you. The town really did not disappoint. It was fabulous. Great music, food, connecting with, you know, friends. I haven't seen since pandemic. It was just like no complaints. It's awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you miss moisten. Very much. Mr Vernon Jones. I can only echo the same sentiments I thought it was a fabulous day with just one great piece of it after another and Jennifer to you in particular thank you so much for all you did to make it happen. Thank you all so much so it was the Civil War tablets committee the mill district in the town of Amherst all had a vision and we were able to make that vision come true so many many things. Thank you. I have just a brief members report. I wanted to let members of the community safety working group know that miss Walker and I were able to meet with Mr Bachman yesterday. And that's why we rearranged the agenda a little bit, because we wanted to give him time to talk about a possible route that we could take with our work in regards the IFB. So I guess with that we can just go right into it Mr Bachman I just wanted to give you a chance to let the group know what you were thinking and then open it up to discussion for the group to make decisions forward. Thank you. So there's a lot happening right now and I just want to try to categorize how things how I see things playing out and the timeline for things so we can all sort of see if we're on the same page on this so the council passed a budget on Monday. It includes funding and a vote by the council about the crest program so we'll talk first about the crest so that's going to be get has to get worked on right away. And that includes our core team which is the is moist and the fire chief the police chief and Mary Beth Oga love it says our core team and then bringing in others you know HR finance health as we need them and includes the co chairs of this group. And that group will be initiated immediately. There'll be some time set up I'm sure Mary Beth will work with the co chairs about it a mutually agreeable time. And that that has a time constraint on it in February one of having people hired in on board, which when we start tracking back this time and we need to have the coordinator of the group on board, November one, which means we start to track back and need to start doing that relatively soon so those that job description at least for the coordinator role has to happen so there's a lot of work and a lot of nuances to everything about this program so a ton of work over the coming few months to get to where we need to be for that. Simultaneously with the recruiting and the laying out the program will be finance team working on funding sources so that's one big sort of avenue of work that needs to be done. At the same time, we want to be actively working on the di director position. So we need to get a job description and we'd like to review that, or include people from CSWG I know Ms very has strong ideas about that so want to reach out to her. And then get that moving forward as well because that position that person is going to be pivotal in all the work that goes forward so these are dual track things that that we need to be working on. And then the third thing that I think that we really want to be moving forward on is the resident oversight board or whatever we're going to call that board and getting the charge for that up and running so we can begin to recruit and activate that group and I think you know as you work through what that charge should include. You know I think that again we the sooner we can get that up and running and you know I know they'll take some time to work on a charge but we want to move that forward and start to populate that group and it was key to that group is what are they going to do. And then what, you know, what, what else who should be on it, like what what's the profile of the people who should be on it. And then we have the other recommendations and sort of, so I just want to brainstorm I don't have a clear idea in terms of the teen empowerment center and the cultural center and how do those get initiated advanced. And so what I talked a little bit with the co chairs about was like, I started thinking like what is the structure we have going forward, and what is going to be the sustainable model because this is a multi year effort. And what, so we need to have structures in place we need committees or something that's going to be overseeing this or working through these things and I'm not really sure what you. What the working group has thought about in terms of the resident oversight board is that going to have a narrow mission of looking at the just police. What is the role is that is that group going to have any role with the crest group or not. And then what is the larger picture things because what we've been thinking about and talking with folks here about was, does the director need a committee or should there be a committee that is looking at equity issues across the town. So just I have ideas on that but I don't have a clear. I don't have firm thoughts on where that should go but I'm engaged I really would like to be actively engaged in thinking through what that should look like. If there is such a committee it should be not a town manager advisory committee like this group is it should have some legs that I think I would really like the council to say yes we want this to be established so that's the type of thing and I think one of the things so those are my things idea but I was sort of looking at wanting to hear more from the working group and what your thoughts on where you're thinking is in terms of how we should what how we move the next 612 months. I don't think we're looking at a short term. I mean I think we need to look at short term obviously but I think we this is a multi year effort. And so, how do we start to reorganize ourselves. And so, and then in terms of the services that we need to procure. I think the next procurement is is very crucial because I think that whoever we engage in term on a consultancy is really going to help lead us on multiple levels as especially on public safety. And I would really urge us to move. You know, my, I think that we should be looking at the RFP process which allows. You don't have to choose a low bid with the IFP, which you have to do with the IFP it gives nor discretion into who is our partner as we start moving forward on this and just to talk about RFP process that you develop your, your criteria. You explain you tell people what you want to do you explain how you're going to evaluate it, and then people submit a proposal, how they're going to address it, and then they have a second proposal in a separate sealed envelope that has the price. And then you evaluate all the proposals, and you rank them whoever the group is that's doing the ranking. And then you match you open after you've done the ranking you open up the envelopes, and then you sort of match up and you choose what's in the best interest of the town based on price and and the the services are being offered and they sort of what the group brings to the table in terms of backgrounds and things like that. So, I guess I was just sort of looking like we're looking at where are we where are we going to add a place our resources there there's a lot to do. We have a lot. There's some immediate concerns and then there's some longer term things and just, I sort of needed a sort of reset now and sort of say where are we going to dedicate our resources and you've thought about it is my more than anyone so curious about what you guys are thinking. Yes, Pat. So, some of the things I'm about to say, you know, I'm not speaking for CSW joint particular that. So, let me start with the crash. When you, Mr. Bachman when you said coordinator role. Are you saying that it's not going to be a program director. That role that is, you know, we haven't, you know, I'm not sure what that role is going to be someone who's going to be in charge of Crescent we want them hired early to help do the recruiting and hiring of the Crescent officer or what we call the people. I have two additional questions on that. The second question is, are you envisioning press program to be to be social services or public safety. In terms of where it is in the budget it's under our community services budget. So that's a separate standalone area. And I would look to the group that's organizing it to talk about what the criteria for the people are that we need to hire. Okay. Because the way I said Crest, even though the staffing, you know, may have social services, community services background and social work and all that. I see the program itself as for alternative public safety. Yeah, department. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right miss Pat, because, and the way I'm thinking of it and you may have a different vision was that it's almost like we have five with fire EMS with police and then we have a third arm of Crest. And we want all three of them to be working together and, you know, dispatch what is the role for dispatch and I think that's a, you know, they oversee two of them to the they'll have some role. You know, a lot of really informed thinking is happening now, based on the initiative that's coming forward about. What about this kind of call what kind of about that kind of call it's, it's great to see everybody actively engaged in how to make this work. But yeah, we want there and that's one of the major reasons for including police and fire, because we want there to be this to be a whole not standalone but integrated thing. But but the sense that, you know, this the people can call Crest and they can choose the calls that are being delivered to them and or that they're initiating that type of thing. And that was my last question for you is, how would people reach press, would they be calling 911 is it going to be the same communication center handling calls because it will be very critical to be transparent to the resident that when their calls are you know when they make calls where it's going to make we come up with, even if you come up with press number. I think a fairly biker community need to know that the, the calls are actually going to the traditional communication center that we have in the town. And whether or not, I don't know how that is going to play out with people who still don't trust. If they find out that the calls are going to the same place. So that's why it jumps out to me. Yeah, comments I want to make is on in terms of the position. This is actually the one who suggested the, not suggested, but got input from people who reach out to me about the need for cultural center. And you wear a vision to be a separate department. The town is making some efforts to address to address every issue. It is not comprehensive. You know, it would be nice to have a separate department to address from housing to, you know, job opportunities to whatever everything. And I see it as a D I being in charge of the cultural center of the youth program to be the, you know, for the whole town, including the school system, like anything that has to do with equity. Inclusion divert in this town, that's the way it's a huge responsibility. I think when you, if you're still deciding to dissolve CSWG, as September 1, I think it will be very critical to establish another standing committee so that that would be continuity. And I'm hoping that majority of current CSWG members will be part of that standing committee, because we've done so much work on it. I'm also would like to suggest that at least at the minimum that we have to CSWG members to be on the resident oversight, like a seven member board. And I think in terms of consultant, you know, whatever we end up, whatever we end up with. So think about, I think it's a lot easier when a firm start working on something it's a lot easier for them to continue doing it so that you know, Oh, Miss Pat, I can't hear you. I think your microphone went off or it may be a mute. Okay, I'll shut up. What did I, what did I miss? I'll shut up. What did I say? What did you hear? I think you said I think it's important to. Oh, I said, it's important to have a consistent consultant do this work that have already started it. And I'll shut up. Yeah. I guess a question. Oh, sorry, go ahead, Miss Pat. I'm done. I guess the question I have is if you could explain more in depth the difference between an RFP and an IFB and how that would change the scope of our work going forward. I think that the policies and procedures again is written in our charge so it's something I would want the CSWG to look into. So the process is different in that if you can't do an RFP process, unless the contract is over $50,000 I assume that this contract will be more than that. And so, and that's that's, and then at that point you can choose the RFP process. The reason you would choose an RFP process over an IFB is if you don't want to be forced to take the low bidder that you want to judge the applicants based on a set of fixed set of criteria. And then you have more leeway in that you can match up the price to the to the qualifications in the response to the proposal. You know, and we tend to shy away from IFB processes. I mean, we did, we used it last time for efficiencies purposes. But I think because I think, you know, I think we are looking at a pretty extensive engagement, we would like someone to be shoulder to shoulder with us for some time to work on this. I think it's, I think we're wiser to choose something where, where we have the ability to choose the partner we want to be with during this entire engagement. I think these are really, I mean the IFB, the things that you've listed are really there's a lot of things, there's a lot there. There's a ton of work. And there's a lot of legal work that we're going to have to do, including, and there's got, there's going to be some analysis of labor contracts. It's just a lot and then what's not even mentioned in the IFB, which I think needs to be included is the whole sort of, how do you file for, you know, the process for filing complaints and who handles them, how are they. I don't, I didn't really see that in there, but maybe I didn't read it closely enough. So, oh, so there is, no, I'm sorry, there is some resident, but it was sort of like the details of the, how that, how that has worked in other communities that some of the things like that. So, you know, there, there are a lot of, I just think there's a lot to be addressed in this, if this is the scope and I think just developing a scope of services for this RFP is an important task. And just question about the committee that you talked about that ranks it with CSWG members to be able to be a part of that. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I'm hoping on each one of these things, you know, whatever successor committee, the resident oversight board, you know that you have built a lot of credibility and internal expertise in this area. So we want, I want to, we want to make sure that that is continued to and be engaged. I think it's really important for the town. Mr. Vernon Jones. I mean, it makes sense to me that there would be a good town council that would work. I director long term to look at all kinds of things throughout the town. And then we're going to have the resident oversight board. I still don't, I don't see either of those group thing as its primary focus the things that we have in the draft IFB here. It's like there's a piece of work about the police department, which we've started and will carry as far as we can. It's a small town group and I would prefer it be the same collection of people that have been on the community safety working group regardless of appointment or position is to sort of this piece of work. But let me add also about your timeline. If we do an RFP it sounds like you want to include some other things in it. It sounds like it's going to take a while it doesn't sound like we're going to get much back time before our final report is due. So, again, just putting ideas out there. What I was thinking of and maybe it's and maybe we should talk more about the what the resident oversight oversight board mission is. Is it just going to be a repository for complaints and they're going to manage that. Or they is, is there going to be more involved in how a PD does their work and if that were the case, my thought was, we would want them to be engaged with the consultant, and doing the sort of education and analysis of what all the pieces of the in terms of APD operations. So I would think that would make sense to get them on board soon and engage with the consultant and that would be the primary relationship with the consultant. As with the new committee that is going to be ongoing. As sort of oversight and working with the APD on on their. I think there's I think there's a ton, ton there that really needs work on in terms of. I think you identified a lot of really crucial things that need work on is what I meant so. And maybe that so I was thinking. Longer term, probably at least a year or more of work with a consultant with the group that's going to be standing there on on the oversight and that's how I had thought of it in terms of moving forward. But open to other ideas on that. I have mixed feelings about that because just looking at the survey that community safety working group members filled out some of the proposed recommendations right off the bat are hearing complaints investigative powers. Investigating policies and procedures confidentiality. I think it would be more helpful for us to finish our work so that we have a better idea of what policies and procedures need to be tweaked so that their charges cemented rather than put a group of people together and ask them what they think is right. I think it'd be better if we've got an extension of our work so that we could make sure that the details of the resident oversight board are more cemented. That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah, the other reason that I just said makes sense to me is that I think once the resident oversight board is appointed and hopefully we can get there fairly quickly. There's a little bit of training that they should undergo that's recommended by folks who do this and they're going to need to I mean as many details as we figure out they're still going to need to build each other and with the police department and be ready to handle complaints quickly. And it just to try to put everything that's in this IFP on them, in addition to getting started as a complaint handling board just seems like a lot to start with. I do think we want a broad vision of their work and do want them able to initiate reviews of policy and and all that, but it would be best I think if we could get more done before so they can start out getting organized and handling complaints and then add the I'll see work, but not start as far behind as they would be right now. Also, also just to kind of piggy piggyback off what Mr Vernon Jones is saying, do have we agreed on the stipend for the for the members of the board, just because we're asking them to do a lot right off the bat and the CSWG already here we're already committed if you give us an extension. We're asking them already to do the complaints to look over policies and procedures to do training. Do you have a set stipend for each member yet. I have nothing like that. No, I mean, I don't have a preconceived notion of that at all. I think that's all a topic for discussion. Absolutely. Well I think an RFP is a good idea but I think it's a good idea that there's an RFP and the extension of the group. Because I think we have to have the information from the consultants to for the resident oversight board and to set them up. Good. I hear you on that. Yeah. Okay. And then just to add on to what Brianna said it would be helpful for them because then they can sort of monitor that progress. Rather than making it their job to try to figure out what we could or how we can measure progress we could give them the new policies, the new training and the recommendations and they can, they can monitor the progress of that and I think that that would be helpful. And they can do the complaint process which is already going to be a lot which we haven't quite ironed out completely yet. So what I was wondering though about a possibility because I agree with Brianna I think, I think an extension of even two months would give us a lot more time to get that done and it isn't pushing things back too far. I'm wondering though if we chose to go with the RFB process over the IFP, and we were to get an extension or not, would that consultant be able to carry over into the term of the resident oversight board. So giving them a longer amount of time to do their work than the end of our group. It's a contract between the town and the consultant. So yes, it would survive whatever external structure we have. Well, so what would, I mean, when I look at the list of things in an IFB that's, that's a gigantic workload of things to it. And that's why I'm looking at this as being a long sort of investigation work. Which one of these is pretty involved and I mean, especially because a lot of it will involve APD and the consultant sort of laying out how much of it. So what would you think could be accomplished in the next with an additional 60 days of work by the CSWG. What would be the, what would that, what would that look like in terms of feeling like we've done our work. What would be the consultants in these 60 days, or would we just be so you would have the beginning of consultant probably. Yeah, you would have probably a couple months worth of the consultant. Miss Pat. I think what we will not be able to tackle even with a consultant will be the personnel policy because it's a very, very involving. You know, with the union, you know, the contract that the town has with the unit, you know, through the union and all that stuff is like the legal does the legal aspect of APD. I think it will need some expertise. I'm assuming that whichever group that we choose will maybe subcontract people with legal background, you know to help them with their work. So that area, you know the legislation, you know laws, you know I have no clue on those stuff. So it will require some expertise. So that will not be ready by October. When you say two months that will be end of October correct on November. Malaysia two months will be first week of November. Two months. November. So that just my opinion, the legal aspect of the, our charge. For me, I also just feel like it would make more sense for us to get an extension, because I feel like our, our report for the second part of our charge would set up and guide the resident oversight board and inform them and be incorporated into their training rather than be separate, because if there's only going to be two members of this group there. That means that there's going to be five people that don't have the same momentum and the same amount of knowledge that we do because we've been doing this for so long. So I think our report is really informative to them and their work isn't going to operate as smoothly unless they have the report from the consultants and our reports of it digested. Mr Vernon Jones. Yeah, I'm not sure what the answer to your question is, I would think. I mean, clearly if the ROB is going to take over from community safety working group at some point, we're going to need to do the work developing the ROB. I think we would want to make some sort of general recommendations about community policing but not try to work out all the details of that. I think we would want to do something about data, just to move that quickly. And I don't assume that we would come to final conclusions of anything around traffic control, but you know, I know Deborah Deborah Ferrera feel strongly that we want to make at least a, you know, some sort of initial recommendation there. And I would hope we could do some of this policy work that's in number six. I think the contracts and training the organizational structure and the accountability and supervision that's probably beyond that's probably more appropriate for the ROB if we can. I guess one of the questions is, can our group, if we're designing the ROB, the resident oversight board, can we charge it with some things specifically to, you know, to take up from this list. And based on the surveys that everybody submitted, everybody put the policies, or am I reading that? No, they put, yeah, the police policies were really important to the next part of our charge. So to answer your question about the resident oversight board and Cress, we've got a range of opinions, you know, seven then recommended that the resident oversight board deal entirely with Cress. I think that is recommended that they not deal with Cress. I think I'm prepared to recommend that they have all this oversight activity with the police department, but with Cress that their only responsibility would be complaints. There will be other committees, you know, and people working with your core team that would be the continue to work out the details about Cress. You know, I'm trying to find a middle ground that's workable, but still provide the complaint procedure outside the program. I think charging the resident oversight board with the Cress program would be too much for them. And I think like, yeah, it would be way too much work. We're already asking them to do a lot. Ms. Pat. The way I see, in my, in my, not be political correct, but in talking to people in, you know, BIPOC folks, and I'm speaking for myself, the way I see the oversight board to APD is more focused on accountability. I see Cress as more of establishing a standing committee that will support what Cress is doing, that will support DEI, that will support, be a support structure, because we heard people say people of color come and they leave, and it's true they leave because they don't have that support system. So I'm hoping that the standing committee will provide that for the two independent departments. But that's where I'm looking at it, because we all want alternative public safety, and we want to make sure that, A, they are predominantly BIPOC folks working doing the job. Secondly, that they are being, you know, supported and giving the, you know, the support that they need because it would be a very stressful job. So that's, so that's why I'm not supporting to have Cress APDB overseen by the resident oversight board. There are two different roles. In my mind, when I see blue uniform, I have a different perception, as much as I come from a family of police, uncles, cousins, a lot of them. But still, you know, if I still see a police, somebody in police uniform, you know, my demeanor changes. Thank you, Miss Pat. Mr. Baldwin. So, Miss Pat, when you talk about accountability, when you say kind of are you talking about what the resident oversight board will bring to the operations. Is that what you mean by accountability. It would be one of their roles to investigate complaints, be empowered to recommend firing officers if, you know, if they break the law or like doing something out of the bounds of their duties. Yeah, yeah. Even with confidentiality. I'm not saying, you know, you know, besides but you know, announce, you know, we're recommending naming that person's name but have a system being able to have that power because that's what we are lacking. For example, with Human Rights Commission, and I'm hoping that by the time CSWG conclude their work, I'm going to be injecting what I think should change with Human Rights Commission because it's not the people there. But the way it was set up is very, very ineffective. And you know, it can be better. So as I was thinking through this and look reading the documents you produced it seemed like the resident oversight board was something that was sort of a thing that we could actually create like it was, you know, it's actually pretty well defined. You know, there are models out there that we could look at and get support to look at that if that's a need, and then get a charge for that group and get that group. If it's going to have a, and the question was, is it just going to be set up to hear complaints or is it going to have a broader mandate to engage and look at sort of policies. And that's what I'm trying to think is where is where are we going to locate these other tasks that have been identified. And that's where I initially in my mind I was thinking, oh that would live with the resident oversight board because it's an ongoing multi-year process and law will change and they will have to be addressing that and things like that. And so I'm trying to, you know, I'm very concrete thinker I'm thinking like we have things moving in place for for for Cress and for DEI and the resident oversight board. We need that charge to get them up and running. So, and I so maybe we could just check right now with the folks who are here I, I've been assuming that we have some consensus that the resident oversight board would have a broad mission with regard to the APD that would include review of policy and procedures and policing models and all in addition to handling complaints is that is every is everybody sort of on board with that. But there's one answer for you. So, that's good. And then, but understand what that charge, you know, writing that charge becomes important, obviously. That's Yeah, we're planning to do that. Okay, good. Good I mentioned one other thing. A number of us on this committee. We're talking about were you there that when Barbara love came and spoke with our working group. Yeah, a number of us were thought her recommendation about an envisioning process in the town was valuable and important and we've even committed that we might make that one of the recommendations that comes in our next report. So just as you're thinking about the whole quantity of work and what goes where I would assume that that would be with this committee that would work with the director. But I just, I just want to put that on the on the agenda is something that I think that's really interesting. I'm sorry. I think that's really interesting because, yeah, I think that's even more unsure about what that other group is going what their charge is going to be if there's going to be a new group that's being recommended by CSWG for the broader context of of equity work in the town. And I think the way that you framed it was really intelligent in the sense that it was saying it's not just police. It's the entire thing I had not you know so I think that was really good that you did that it made people rethink things. So I think if you if that envisioning piece or whatever is going to be charged with that other group and whether it's staffed by DEI director or it's a bigger group than that even in some ways. You know I don't really have a firm grasp on what that really would look like for the town. And what they what they what what would funnel through that group. Mr Vernon Jones. I frankly wonder how much of that should be spelled out in detail before the DEI director is hired. How much of that is something that should be worked out with the DEI director. She or he feels that they have the kind of support and advice and sounding board and all that would help them take on the full full job. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to miss Pat. So I also think that the standing committee will be a great marketing tool. When the town advertises for the position of DEI. If somebody knows that it's going to be a committee like that it might encourage them to, you know, move from another state or whatever, you know, to, to, yeah, if they know that they're going to get, you know, so ongoing support with your position. Beside the traditional personnel, supervisory support. Because that's, you know, that has been, at least since I moved to our mess is what I've heard over the years, including a superintendent, you know, from Florida, Spanish, that left is lack of support. You know, and on and on and on. So it will be nice to have a core standing committee made up of mostly BIPOC folks. The DEI and the Crest Director can, you know, lean upon if they're, you know, if things are challenging for them and so on and so forth. Yeah, that's an interesting idea. It's sort of two different things though. Do we, do we hire DEI and then, and then create the committee? Do we create the committee and then say DEI you've got your support system. DEI Director, I mean, and, or do we advertise for DEI Director and say, and you'll be, there will be a committee that supports you and you're going to help form that committee. I say, I say that's a combination to at least establish the committee. The DEI when the person is hired can also give a lot of input as, you know, what he or she envisioned the standing committee to be. I say that's a vote process, you know, process. I don't know if you'd be open to this but I think one. I think, well, first off, I think it doesn't make sense for us to end our charge on September 1. I think that an RFP does make the most sense for the scope of work for this and I think we need that information to submit what we want in the resident oversight board. But I think what we can work on while that is in the motion is working on a successor group working on a charge for that committee and that type of thing. I think we need to be open to that because the second part of our agenda is the priorities for the second part of our charge. So it's important that we know what direction you're moving in because I have a sense of the things the group wants to do and it's more than just the resident oversight board. It's traffic control, police policies, community policing, data collection, mutual aids between mutual age of aid agreements between UMass PD, and these are things I think would be best accomplished with the help of consultants. It would be a lot of work to do that on our own, and it would just be more effective if we had consultants to help us. Yes, I think, you know, knowing what was in that, what's going to, what would you see happening in the additional time that the resident oversight group and so again part of it is what's the resident oversight groups job is it is it has a broader mandate or not. And then what's in their bailiwick and then I just want to think about that yeah. Yeah, let me read you the part that propose recommendations that group members made. So seven to eight member group with at least two CSWG members. This group needs to have investigative powers manage complaints and in a confidential way. Somebody recommended that the town manager cannot be the only one to veto those recommendations to have an investigative process and procedures and to have those explained if officers at the APD retire this board should be a part of the hiring process. This is a lot and if we didn't work with consultants to find out this information I feel like we'd be doing the resident oversight board disservice, and we'd be setting them up for failure and they don't have the same momentum that this group already has. So even I can say if even I went on that board me alone wouldn't be able to steer that that group in the right direction I feel like. And we're asking them to do a lot, and a lot without a confirmed stipend. And even to give you a sense of the stuff the group is wondering that we need to establish the resident oversight board. People want to know the sample of bylaws from other towns talk to the Human Rights Commission. Find information on how other towns are doing oversight with mediation review our previous consultants. If you have any recommendations on oversight boards look at a review of the Nicole recommendations and review the Obama task force or the president Obama task force of 21st century policing recommendations and the document that you provided and that there is a lot. And are you saying that that's work that you want CSWG to do or the resident oversight board to do. Mr Vernon Jones. I want CSWG to do with some support from consultant, which brings me back to the question of the timeline for getting a consultant on board. How quickly do you miss that. How quickly are you thinking of getting a consultant. If we use the RFP process we have to do the draft the document first, which is a pretty extensive document typically it's. I mean, Anthony Delaney does that for a living so he can support that but it's he gets all the stuff but the substantive questions or what's the key component of that and the evaluation criteria are crucially important. Once you get the responses you have to follow the, you tell people how I'm going to grade you basically and then you have to follow that metric once the big responses come in and they and everybody knows that those are the rules. So it, it will take some time to pull that together I think. August. Oh, I would hope that we would get it done during July for sure. Oh, okay. That's a good document I think but then you have to give people time. I mean I think we, we know that we will get better responses if we give people time to respond and also give people time to recognize how long they're going to do the work. It's, you know, people, and that's why I'm saying this is an extended engagement, because I don't think no one's going to come in here and work 100% on Amherst they've got other. So the communities doing the exact same work and they're going to say, can we layer and one of the questions we always ask is, who's going to be doing the work and do you have the capacity to take on this work and what is your timeframe for achieving doing the work because we want to make sure that whoever gets the contract will have the capacity to take it on and you know how many other contract usually there's words we can put in there about how many other contracts of the certain size do you have for your, your company. You know, for the owners project manager for the elementary school building committees, you know, we want to get somebody really good for that and, you know, had one of the questions was, is this are you taking on like too many contracts we want to measure to have, are you going to be, are we going to be at the bottom of your list all the time, or are we going to be primary in your list, somehow we can get to that. So is it realistic to think we might have a consultant on board by September 1. Or is that too quick. I think that's pretty quick in terms of, you know, suppose we get an RFP done it gets out, you know, we've talked to Anthony about if they need, how many days they need to respond. We, I think it'd be challenging because, especially during August it's hard to get people's attention sometimes. Yeah. And then once you sign a contract, it's what is the start date, you know, sometimes people aren't ready. They have to arrange their prior contracts to say now I'm ready to leave this one into my consulting group. And again, that's why I think we should be thinking about this engagement for a relatively long period of time. And that relationship for a relatively long period of time. Miss Walker Mr Vernon Jones and I have a quick question. So just in terms of the RFP process, just because I'm not familiar and I don't know how similar it is to the IFP process. Does it matter at all the fact that we have already completely finished our list for the IFP is that something we can just ask Mr Delaney and that he can use that to create the RFP would he need any other information from us. And because given that we've already have all that information drafted with that sort of speed up the process at all like if we could, because I think as a group we already approved the document so essentially we could give it to him tomorrow and see if he could start working on it right away. I'm not sure if that would make like a significant difference in the timeframe. If that's a possibility. Yeah, I think the work that's already been done on the IFP list is really important. Mr Vernon Jones. Well, if, you know, if September one is really be October one is when we can count on having a consultant. It seemed like if we want them involved in helping work out the final details about the resident oversight board then. You know, maybe this group, when we say October one, remember, maybe this group needs to go to December one. So we've got two months to have some help from the consultant to finish up the resident oversight board work. And we'll see what else we can get done. And then I think, yeah, I agree with Mr Vernon Jones and I think in the meantime what this group can do is help to advise you on what a successor group is going to look like to embody equity across the board in the town in town and also a group to bring forward the youth empowerment center in the BIPOC cultural center, because those are two, like two things that we want to see move forward in the meantime, we can, I feel like as a group we have engaged the community. So we can open that conversation back up in whatever way it needs to to come up with ideas on how to do that, while that contract is near. Is that within reach. Again, I'm looking at staff capacity and ability to get things done and also our ongoing relationship with a consultant we bring on who's going to be digging into this for months or a year or more. You know, it's something that I think we really need. It's the each one of these things takes time to evaluate and dig into that's why I'm looking at this is the way and initially what I was saying is a long term engagement with whatever the successor group is who's going to be permanent and establishing what their charge is so I do have to get to my council meeting so happy to continue the conversation I appreciate your time. But yeah just want to make sure that I hope this you know we have something we have to have to work out together. Okay, do you want me to witness Walker. I'm sorry if it's possible I just have one last quick question do you have in your head an actual deadline by which you were trying to set up the ROB, or was that sort of just contingent upon us finishing like did you have, like you want to start interviewing for it by December or can that wait till February one when crest is also or is that too much happening at one time, like what was there a deadline for that. I don't, I was thinking that again that's the with the crest DEI and ROB as being the three sort of tangible things that we can implement, you know, I mean it's sort of like design build implement. These are three solid things that I felt like if we could get those set up and moving, it will take a couple months to recruit and because that's a pretty sensitive committee. That's why I have the internal urgency to say let's get these let's get these things done. So it's that that's where I was thinking about that. I don't have a set date or anything like that. So thank you all. Thank you to stand touch yeah. Yeah, thank you very much. I guess that leads us to the second part of our agenda the priorities for the second charge, the second part of our charge. I'm not really sure where to go with this given that we don't know whether or not we're going to get an extension, but I did compile everyone's answers. Do we want to look at that as a group. Sure. Okay. Share screen. Can you guys all see my screen. Yes. So this, so only four people submitted their surveys. So if people who are here didn't submit your survey feel free to chime in and say things that you disagree with, or anything in, but these, this was the most popular ranking. So first the resident oversight board, second looking at traffic control, one person did put police policies for the second. The third one was, oh, that should have been three. For the third one it was police policies. The fourth one we all agreed across the board community policing the fifth, no one agreed on the fifth topic so one person put data collection public access and transparency. Another person put racial justice, another person put organizational structure of the APD, and then another person put the APD programs. And then for the last one two people wrote mutual aid mutual aid arrangements with the, with the UMass PD one person had police policies and one person left at blank. So I, I'm not sure if it matters as a group at this point to come up with five and six just because we don't know whether or not our charge is going to be extended or Yeah, I think the first four look pretty clear and We need consultants for that I feel like accept that. Accept that in number two, I just feel that police policies will take a lot of time I think this should go to consultant. I really don't want to touch policies. Because we will need help with that. I agree. Miss Walker. I was just also going to say that I agree with Miss Pat about police policies and I think that they, because we talked a lot about the And how we can actually effectively affect those policies and what kind of recommendations we can viably make and so I think we really need more information from a consultant in order to even make basic recommendations in terms of the policies. Miss Pat. I'm an employer and I'm constantly, you know, reaching out to my lawyer on personnel policies is it's still something that is still technical like legal stuff. So I really don't want to. I don't want us to touch it. I think. Mr Vernon Jones. I mean, I think there's some things we shouldn't try to touch. I think there are other things where I mean like use of force policy. There's some very good model policies available on the web from groups that have been doing this work for a long time. And I think we could fairly quickly open a dialogue with the chief of police about that. Well, these other things that I think that the chief will be able to tell us whether or not there are obstacles in the accreditation process or in the state law. You know, we might want to consult them to check it if we don't like the answer he gives us but we'd get I think we'd get a pretty good estimate initially there. But you know, maybe all we really need to do is, I think there's a lot we can do in the resident oversight board because there are lots of documents and lots of material out there and models recommended by seven gen for us to look at. And maybe we start there and then figure out what comes next. Thank you for us. Hi. Hi, sorry about that. Um, um, I totally just, I totally forgot what I was going to say my kid walked in, having fell. I don't even know what I'm going to say. So it was something about. Oh, the policing policies. Um, well, and actually, and first, yeah. Okay, so I am, I did not go through any of this. I was kind of busy with other stuff, but um, couldn't we find like some sort of, or couldn't we try to find some sort of like, human rights lawyer, or somebody who's willing to do some work, at least in the beginning, um, pro bono, um, in order to help us get through some of like, like, for example, for the police policies and stuff like the law, the law aspect of it so that we can make sure that like, we're not wasting time by trying to get them to change something that might be, um, not changeable or whatever. Is that my sunny sense? Or not changeable immediately. Everything. I feel like everything's changeable. But I mean like, when I'm thinking about stuff as far as being immediate, like, you know, there may be, I feel like I remember, for example, the chief of police saying something like, well, this is something that comes from the state. This is not a choice. Like this particular thing is not a choice that we make. So we can't not do this. This is part of what we have to do as a police force. Like, if we had somebody who was like, who was like able to weed through all those the legal stuff, like, and not necessarily be like a community organizing group but somebody who specifically deals with law, and what we can and what we can and can't ask for like wouldn't wouldn't that help us potentially save us from doing a lot of like work that we can't immediately do anything. Like what we can't like stuff we asking for stuff we can't immediately change like that would have to go through like an actual like law change like we'd have to go do judges and stuff like that. I don't know if I'm making any sense. I just that's just some came up. No, I hear you miss Pat. So the way contract works when when individual or groups when they be done contracts. And if they get it. If there are areas that you know they are lacking in skills or knowledge or expertise, they typically will subcontract. That's the standard procedure. I want to contract on something if I know sometimes I might need additional expertise to work on something that's the way it works so going toward that she now was saying absolutely like if whoever gets the bed. I'm assuming that they will contract out or somebody that have strong legal background and attorney to help them review the policies. Yeah, I understand that part of it but what I'm saying is, is there, is there the potential for us to, you know, at least, you know, to put out there like to kind of cut out the metal man, so that when we have somebody who's come who's going for that going for that bid that there's a certain level of stuff that's already taken care of like I felt I don't know I just feel like I feel like, you know, if I go to my boss and I asked my boss for a raise, my boss also has to talk to that like there's other people my boss has to like come forward and talk to before I can get a raise because, you know, there's certain things, for example, in the budget that have to be taken, you know, consider taking care of whatever the maybe they can cut it here or there. But, you know, like, I think that we I think that they're there are things that we can avoid having somebody subcontract if we can if we can get somebody to donate their time. Like that's what I'm saying get somebody to pro bono to donate their time to do this like there are people out there that believe in us and I think that we may be able to find somebody who is willing to get through all the law, law jargon of it and we don't need to worry about whether or not whoever we get is subcontract and we already have a lot of stuff taken care of. We know what we can ask for what we can or what we can, you know, that yeah so it's a little different from, I feel like from what where what you were saying like rather than like, yeah, okay. I can see where you're coming from I the one thing that I worry about with that is for the credibility, just because I felt like the way the town council treated us when we had really well experienced consultants I feel like they were still questioning us and asking them for coding so I feel like if we brought someone on. And it would just be another reason for the town council to try to poke holes in the work or even maybe even the community. I definitely get that. And I'm not trying to be like I'm not trying to be a certain way, but go ahead have it. We also have to remember though that whether or not the town council wants to admit it. They already knew and didn't like our consulting group. And they had a lot to do with their behavior in regards to us is because there. There's a tone with it you know like there's a tone there these are all people that are from this area like I'm not even talking about necessarily somebody from what's their math and like, you know, talking about, can you give me a second. Okay, but can you give me a second that's not a dire emergency and not bleeding. So train of thought. Um, So like, you know I'm even thinking about looking at like law schools out in Boston and being like getting somebody from like outside of this area somebody that people around here aren't having relationships with and get in like have opinions. Oh miss bowman I think, I think you're muted. But that's what I was thinking I was thinking of going outside of this area, because going cycling through the law stuff sifting through the law stuff is not a person isn't required to be in like to be part of this community to just go through the nitty gritty of law. They don't have to be part of this community. You understand where I'm coming from but like. People in this community don't like other people in this community. You understand where I'm coming from so like, we have this consulting group that you know we got people from this community, and it was very clear that like they had an attitude with it from the get go. They did not like the consulting group. Um, and I think that's where a lot of our issue part of a big chunk of our issue came from is because they had prior opinions of the people who are a part of that consulting. So that's that's just my, that's just my thought about that whole situation. Mr Vernon Jones. Yeah, I mean my, I would not try to get legal advice out of the RFP, but I think if there's, you know, if there are policies that we think we want. It might be that the ACLU, or somebody like that would be get willing to give us a, you know, advisory opinion about whether there's any, you know, conflict with state law, for instance. The lawyers are a little funny about who they'll give advice to and who they won't but I've had good luck getting some help from the ACLU. We might get some directly from the NACL group on resident oversight board. There are as I say there are some model policies online that have been adopted in other places. But I don't think we need to resolve this in order to go forward right now. Okay, so. Oh, Miss Pat. So we're picking the first four, because it seems like that's what most people want. Correct. Yes. Except for the police policies. Is that correct. For me, I'm not sure how the rest of the group feels about this. For me, the police policies. The biggest like the biggest roadblock I see in our work is the Massachusetts police accreditation accreditation program. There's 159 standards and Amherst is an accredited police agency and they have stuff. When I looked at it I thought well when I first saw the accreditation stamp or whatever I thought you would be training and stuff like that and training is part of there but it's like employee training record maintenance to arrest with or without a warrant. So I think that we would need consultants to move forward with that part because we need someone to thoroughly look through all 159 of these standards and maybe from there one of our recommendations might be that we suggest the Amherst police department not be an accredited agency because it doesn't align with Amherst values because I don't see anything. I'm just looking at it like quickly right now and I don't when I control app I don't see anything on diversity or equity training or anything. I don't see anything in that nature not that that needs to be the focus of our recommendations but I think that would be important. How do other group members feel about that. Miss Pat. I agree. I'm just saying, you know, we have to be realistic what or what we, what we can or cannot accomplish. So let's assume that will be disbanded September 1. Perhaps if the time manager decide to extend it to December. That would be awesome but let's start with the first four that majority of us, you know, put in and remove the police policies for now. If we get extended beyond September 1, maybe we can start tackling that. And then when they hire the consultant, maybe we can turn it over to them or something. So I just want us to be realistic as to what we can or cannot accomplish from now to end of August. I'm in agreement so just to confirm so we would look into the resident oversight board traffic control and community policing. And if so, is everybody in agreement with that. Miss Walker. And then Mr. Vernon. Yeah, sorry, I am in agreement, but I'm just wondering if the group can provide me a little bit of clarity on what direction we're going with this in terms of, are we going to pick these four things and then figure out like, who's going to look into doing our own research on some things. Are, are we going to have like bring back and report to the group by next week or are we just literally only picking the topics. Miss Pat. My thinking is maybe we should work in groups, groups of two. And I don't want to call it subcommittee and then we run into setting up. I made a mistake last time. So, I think it would be good every week that, you know, we have subcommittee, you know, report on oversight board on traffic control where they came up with our community policing things like that. I'll tell you right now I'm not going to touch police policies, because I'm, you know, I'm struggling with my, my, my employment policies so I don't want to touch it. And then would the idea be that we would take one thing and look into what the APD is doing and then also look into examples of other communities and what they can do and report back in that manner, or in what type of way are we going to research each individual topic. So, for example, Miss Pat, no, go ahead. So, for example, with the oversight board, you know, there are some materials I will hope whoever joined that, that group, you know, we'll take a look at like the document that the town manager gave us the president, recommendation on alternative policing, the gen seven recommendation, things like that, and even the night call, you know, to look into, you know, do some research and report back. It would be the same thing with, you know, traffic control, are there other innovative ideas of other communities, how they approach in traffic control. So one of my thing is, you know, I think if we recommend that APD stop issuing tickets, it might discourage them from pulling, you know, BIPOC posts off when they're driving. You know, instead of, you know, maybe we'll find alternative way, instead of them paying tickets, maybe have them do volunteer work, or donate to charity, for example. So things like that, yeah. One question that I have for the group. So if we're doing the resident oversight board traffic control community policing, would it be too much to add in for one of our maybe just even one of our meetings to have a meeting entirely on what a success, what a success, what we envision a successful successor group looking like, because I think it's important to that we be part of that, and part of that planning. Yes, can we add that. Okay. Miss Walker and then Mr. Vernon Jones. So I'm almost wondering just looking at this list and as like a preliminary start. If we, we have two, three and four be like have not subcommittees but subgroups working on them. And then for the resident oversight board as well as for the whatever the successor group maybe that we all do a sort of similar thing that we did to this project and like maybe we all draft our own draft of a charge that we would think that it would look like and then we can all come together and sort of share those things like and like mend them together and to be one thing. And then that way we can all simultaneously be working on those at the same time. Okay. Miss Pat. Can you say that again, like you want people to work individually. I'm just proposing if everyone agrees that I was thinking that maybe we could split up so that two three and four would all have the groups of two that we talked about working on and looking into those things but I don't think we would necessarily need a group of two right this minute to like look into the oversight board because we do have some preliminary research from seven Jen I think we can use. We can all do if we have any other questions after going over that some of our own like just basic research and come up with what we think a proposed charge for the group would be, or what we want them to specifically cover and that we can compare those notes together so that we can come up with a charge. And the same thing for the successor group or whatever that maybe look like to just have a vision of what we think that would be what their charge would be, and bring that back to the group so that we can compare those together and that we don't necessarily need like a group separate from us to look at those two things. Mr Vernon Jones then this Pat. Well, let me say first I'm I'm in agreement with choosing these and leaving police policies out but I would hope that if I come up with a policy or two that I have reason to believe is legal that you would be willing to consider it as part of our report if I bring it forward. I think it'd be great for everybody to do some reading on resident oversight boards and be thinking about what you want. I think it can be challenging to try to merge five different documents. And I think what what we've had good luck with in the past is if I mean we have a list of ideas that we're going to look at together tonight I think from that. I'd be willing to try to write up something, you know that sort of reflects what we've talked about so far, and have it be something that people then make changes and corrections and additions and deletions from. I don't get everybody's thinking. But then we've got something to react to and something to change rather than five completely different documents and trying to merge them. Miss Pat miss Walker and then I have a comment. Yeah, I just wanted to mention that in our previous meeting last week. Was it last week. Yeah, that are two weeks ago that both myself and Alicia we had volunteered to work on successor group committee what that will look like and report back to you guys. So, we haven't, we haven't done anything yet. Hopefully we'll stop working on it. I just want to put that out. Thank you for reminding me miss Pat because I actually forgot that we had that discussion but I'm still willing to work with you. And then I actually thank you Mr Vernon Jones I like that idea better and I agree that it is, it is a little bit hard but just. I was just thinking in terms of not having to have a full discussion but I think that we can come up with that document together because this sheet that we did for tonight. And that goes over that and then also something that you said about just come having something together that we can change, because what I think would happen like we can come up with like a preliminary charge now but that as we go further along into our research that that might change or we might want to add, for example, if you did come across a policy that you wanted to add then we might want to specifically add to the charge of the resident oversight board, like to be monitoring the use of this policy or something like that, that then we would want to be able to change that as our research goes on. And so that that wouldn't be our final hodge for the group but just to have one that's mendable because I think, like, as we do research will want to add things to it. One thing that I really struggle with in regards to us coming up with the charge of the resident oversight board is I feel like all the reason for him to extend our work is because I feel like the consultants going through the policies and procedures matters for the oversight board so what I'm thinking is, what if the what if the consultants from the RF come back and tell us this is how data is being reported this is how we suggest it being reported. And from that, what are wouldn't we want the oversight board to do something with that data, or to report that to the community, and I'm also thinking of it in terms of if any APD officers retired at what point would we want, would we want people from the committee just on the hiring committee or would we want them part of the screening committee I just think there's so many like little nuts and bolts that the consultants would have to help us with, and I think that's all the more reason why we need an extension. So that's the only thing that I struggle with so I worry that if we put together a charge now and then can consultants. Come on and then we find out that information we might feel differently. I think anything we write now will be based on as much research as we can do. But I do think, you know, as Alicia said I think it should be a draft and always be. I mean I think there are some some things we will be pretty clear we want and will help guide the consultant. I think there will, you know, we'll want more information or we'll get some new information from the consultant and then we'll make some revisions I, I would not want anything we produced in the short term to be a final draft that would be it would be a working draft that would continue to evolve as we learn more and get more help. But I think there's a lot we can do because there's so many documents out there. I just think that I just think for me like the consultants are important because what I don't want to happen is our charge to end September one and then the ongoing draft that we have for the resident oversight board without the information from the consultant becomes the board and that's it. That's my worry. It sounds though to me that the town manager is, is different today, like he seems more flexible to the lab than last week, where he stated. Yes, I want you, I want the group is going to end September. The first is an ad hoc committee, but that's not what I'm hearing today. I mean he didn't make a commitment that it seems like he's flexible and willing to extend it. There, at the same time, I do want us to start thinking it will end September first. So, so that if we have more time, we will continue. I'm feeling that we might, you know, we might continue to December. That's how I'm feeling. I, I agree, Miss Pat. I think we should get done as much as we can. So with that, do you guys want to move on to the next part and look into the information we need for the resident oversight board and second part of the document. I'm sorry, I was just going to say if we wanted to pick the groups of two that would be looking at the topics or we can do that later. We don't have to do it right this minute. No, we should do it now. Okay. So you and Miss Pat will work on the successor group. I'm interested in looking in community policing and also the traffic control. Russ, do you have a certain area that you wanted to look into? Well, I've already started trying to read all these documents about resident oversight board. So I'd be, you know, although we're also doing it together, I'd like to kind of focus my efforts there on pulling together people's ideas and things from different reports. If you need me for some, be part of something else too, I could try. Okay. Miss Pat. Brianna, I'm very interested in traffic control. So I might work with you with that on that. Okay. Okay, and then I can pick up also community policing then. If that's the other one. I don't have any, I'll work on anything. I'll also work on the community policing one with you. I'm also interested in that. So, Tashina, did you have any topics that you wanted to work on? I want to work on what else did we have the traffic control community policing? Did you have out of the, so we have the resident oversight board traffic control community policing and the successor group. Was there a topic that you were interested to look more into with another member? Miss Pat. Perhaps Tashina, you can send us feedback on the four different topics. You know, you can, you know, email Miss Moistin feedback on what you would like to see on resident oversight board or traffic control or community policing or successor committee. I mean, I'm, I'm there after that. I'm fine with working on a committee. I just don't know which one I can work on. And I'm not like I, I just for the, for the, for clarity right now I have a lot going on in my personal life. I'm like, really overwhelming. And so like, I don't mind sitting and talking with somebody but as far as emails and like taking notes and stuff I'm just, I'm, I don't have the like mental capacity right now to do that. So, so I'm like, good with working with people, whatever, like I don't really mind you can put me anywhere basically but I just need whoever I'm working with has to be in a place where they're willing to take notes and stuff because I just can't I don't have it. I don't have the brain capacity to do that. Ms Walker. I can work with to Sheena on that and just, I think it would be helpful. I mean, if this is okay with you to Sheena and Ms Pat to do what Ms Pat said and have just to Sheena write her opinion out on all four and send them across the board and I can just write it out for her so I can meet with her and she can tell me and I can just type it. I think that would be helpful. Thank you. I just, I needed to confirm who's on what group I have Alicia, Ms Walker, Mr Vernon Jones and Ms Pat working on the resident oversight board is that correct. Okay. There was some background noise. So sorry. So who's on the resident oversight board. So far it was just Mr Vernon Jones that volunteered. And I don't want to put any extra work or any work on Deborah while she's on vacation. However, I am inclined to think that she may also be interested in that one. So if somebody can reach out to her after the meeting to check. I think that would be helpful. Sorry. She's gone to trouble. She's on vacation, but I didn't know if like, that would be the one that she would want to focus on when she comes back, because I know that she did have a lot of interest in that. So I think just reaching out to her would be helpful. I can reach out to her to I think she was interested in traffic control to. Yeah. She said that she was going to come into the next meeting virtually. Yeah. If there's Wi-Fi and it's strong. Yeah. Mr Vernon Jones and Ms Moisten. Well, just to clarify. Mine is the only name on resident oversight board, but the agreement was that everybody would try to do some reading of the documents and be prepared to have recommendations and feedback to whatever I put together. Okay. And then I have for the traffic control, I have miss Owen and miss Pat. And then for the community policing, I have miss Owen, miss Pat and miss Walker. Nope. I thought it was just me and Alicia. Okay. And then for the successor group. Miss Pat and I. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. And then I'm going to get my hand on everything. I'll be calling you. Okay. Just not seven to three because I might work. Okay, got it. So for the, for the rest of our like worksheet, do we want to keep this as like, do we want to create an ongoing. document as we all get read and dive into stuff on resident oversight boards. I did put together all of the questions that people had on this topic. And then also the preliminary recommendations. So, I'll miss Pat, go ahead. I wonder if you can read them, you know, as soon as she didn't have time to do, you know, participate. So the questions about this topic, would this board need an operating budget for investigators? What will the funding for this board be funding for stipends for members where will the board members meet will they have resources, such as paper copies access to computers if members do not have one. I think that's the best design a complaint procedure that welcomes internal police investigations but does not endure any decision until the resident oversight board has heard from the complaint and the officer and made a recommendation. How do we design a process that makes hiring professional investigators an option for major cases, but does not rely on them for the resident oversight board to call for discipline for the Amherst police department officers. Do you have any more that they wanted to add for this. I think that it's good. It's good. My concern definitely is about funding. Okay, that's my biggest concern. I think it's because of the fact that when you think about it like the one that a friend of ours was talking about out on Cambridge. Nobody's on it because it's not like it's a volunteer thing and who wants to do that, you know, and like I think it feel like, especially if they're looking at making recommendations for like any sort of like involving the police, nice shoes actions involving the police. I feel like there should be some sort of like protection, like, which I didn't see in there is that I really feel like there should be some sort of like wording. I don't know what that was. I don't even want to know what that was. Some wording as far as making sure that people on this board are not there no, there's no ramifications or whatever. You know what I'm saying so like, so like protection against retaliation retaliation that's the one that's the word I was looking for. There should be protection against retaliation please pick your socks up. Yes, Pat. Actually, the question I have about the oversight board is we all buy pork people actually joined this group. Yeah. Yeah. For the reason of retaliation just saying it in a different way. Well, and no, I agree with you on that because that's going to be very important for us to have by pox people involved is to make sure that they are not being that they're not going to get targeted or their family members are not going to get targeted after the fact. Yeah. So if they do have to, if they do have to come, not necessarily I'm not necessarily worried about the investigating part but if they find something that they substantiated. You know, you don't want to feel like other cops are going to be coming at you and, you know, blah, blah, blah to retaliate because you know such and such, you know, got seriously such and such got fired or such, you know, or somebody got, you know, recommended for behavior because I mean whether or not we want to acknowledge it we do know that there's a blue code and we do know that police officers do things to protect each other regardless, you know what I'm saying. Yep. So I just I just want that. I just the only way we're going to, the only way we're going to get BIPOC people to participate is if they have true and real protection against retaliation. I agree I think these are all really good questions. I'm really glad that someone brought up the space that they're going to be in and computers and that type of thing too. I didn't think about that before. So, I know it's not too many organizations, but how are we involving other organization input, like, you know, somebody saying that there's still even if it's press one number, they'll prefer to call organization they're familiar with. People still associate press pro work associating press program. As white space, similar to a PD. I don't we haven't. Perhaps we need to do more work in our messaging. People have some people have it in the head that press program is part of a PD. People are asking me where exactly is press going to be located. Where would the cause be going to. And already there is a meeting set up tomorrow that Brianna has generously volunteer to attend a survival center to discuss press program. So people aren't sure that, you know, press will necessarily protect BIPOC people, I think it has to do with our messaging. Do you think this phrase is a good like how can we market press to be separate from the PD and provide insurance. Exactly, exactly, because that's why you know people said, Well, you know if you're talking. That being in a part of AP that keep telling people know it's not part of a PD. I don't know what else to do. Mr. Brandon Jones. I think it's hard to do very much until the program is more set up but I think you know, before too long will be able to identify a separate location. I think we're going to be able to say there's a there will be a direct phone line. And then once we started hiring some BIPOC people to be responders and to help run the program. Then I think we can really kind of do a public relations outreach, especially in BIPOC communities but you know across the board to help people understand it. I don't think we should try to do to I mean we should, you know, believe people that it's not an APD program. But I don't think we should try to do too much until we actually have some more answers but I think it will take a focused public relations effort and outreach to make sure that the people know. Ms. Pat. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if we get extension in the fall are very much like us to do another public forum, specifically on Christ so that all this confusion going on in the community we clay it up a little bit. Because not everybody has time to read our document you know Facebook there's so much information out there. You know people don't read no more people just, you know, glance through stuff myself included you know. So, um, if we, you know, show to just let think about having a public forum like what people would like to see about Christ and you know present to them what we've come up with so far. I think that would be good to give them information but also to have like a question and answer, because one of the questions that I've gotten from people in Amherst is just like the biggest question I've gotten is, is it going to be a separate phone line or not. Which is, I think we really have to be firm on that I think there can be compromised with where the dispatcher is and that dispatcher being in the communication center but just having the separate number. So I guess we can move to like to the next part of the worksheet that people filled out and just go over proposed recommendations people have already before, just with the knowledge that we have right now. So some of the recommendations are to get a sense of what the community safety working group wants on the resident oversight board on some basic issues and then open a dialogue with the Amherst police department before we try to finalize. So the recommendation is a seven member group with two community safety working group members, one person suggested an eight member group. The board should handle complaints have investigative powers. If officers retire and there is hiring be a part of the hiring process, a similar selection to the CSWG, the town manager cannot be the only one to veto recommendations made by the board. So there's an investigative process and procedures need to be explained, and the board needs to be able to speak with those who complain with confidentiality. I would like to throw into our recommendations. To, is it reform reform Human Rights Commission, is that the right word to use to empower empower Human Rights Commission. The stipend to yeah. I would suggest that with the seven member group with two CSWG members typically in the charges, it explains that everybody's a voting member so you should include that. I mean I know it's just an early recommendation, but include that everybody's a voting member, or designate a certain amount of folks to be and then I guess the question would be if the town manager is not the only one who can veto the recommendation who would be the other individuals or persons. Could we make that to the successor group possibly. I would join that group. Would that be possible. Or would that be a possibility that people are comfortable with. I feel comfortable with that. I don't understand your question. Would it be okay to put okay so the town manager cannot be the only one to veto recommendations made by the board. So who else would be part of that. The decision making part. If I'm hearing it correctly. Mr Vernon Jones. I think that's a topic to do quite a bit of research on. I'm happy to explore how other municipalities are handling that. Okay. Does anybody else have any recommendations. Mr Vernon Jones. Well, I had, I sent a three page document of recommendations. I don't know whether I, I thought that was going to be on the agenda tonight, maybe not. Miss moisten. I think that it fits with inside many of the different topics why I didn't put it out, but I didn't put, I mean, I can get the document. But I had put it in every agenda or every packet and then it hadn't come up. So I didn't put it in this one, but it still fits underneath many topics on the agenda. Ross, I can add your recommendations. I can go back and do that. I'm sorry. I, I mean, I was hoping to get some feedback on them. So I could work on them this week, but, you know, everybody's seen it. It's been in the packet. A couple of times. So do what you want. Would it be okay or would it be within reason to use this as an ongoing document for the group to add recommendations and talk about them each meeting or. Miss Walker. I think yes. But I think it would just essentially be like notes, like notes. But I think it may be helpful to have them compiled so that when we do come to the end and we are going over the final charge of what we're going to hand in we can say okay well did we cover all of these things that we had wanted to cover or have we talked about these things and it might be helpful to have it, but I'm not just not sure what else we would do with it. Mr. Brown Jones. Well I would propose that we indicate that these are recommendations made by at least one member of the group. In other words, we're not trying to come to consensus on these right now. And I promise as I develop drafts I will, you know, if we get this document where I have access to it I will always look at it. I don't necessarily agree with everything that one person said but I would certainly, you know, take that into consideration. Miss Pat, I just want to add with the seven member group for the oversight that majority of members be BIPOC, like five BIPOC and you know, like it would be a multiracial, but five will be BIPOC and two non BIPOC. Mr. Brown Jones. Well just, just so you know what, you know, seven Gen had recommended a five member board. And so I started my recommendation was a five member board with three BIPOC, and that if one of the BIPOC positions was vacant. The votes would be calculated proportionally so that the BIPOC members of the board still had 60% of the voting power, even if there were only two of them they would their votes would count for for three basically. And that the board could not function if it didn't. And that would be true, as long as there was one board BIPOC member and the board would not be allowed to function if it didn't have BIPOC members. And then Miss Pat. I actually like that idea because, like, just because of what Tashina said earlier like I we did look into the Cambridge committee, and they were established years ago and there's nobody on the board it's completely vacant right now. And I'm assuming that I mean there are good reasons, but in the event that we couldn't find BIPOC people enough BIPOC people to be on the board or that they we couldn't retain them and people had to leave for any reason that they would still have that kind of decision making power on that board. And I think that that would be helpful to retain that. But then wondering, would there be like a term. So like would each member serve like a two year term and then would it recycle, or would they be like how would we sort of flush that out because we would then they go through a rehiring process or a rehiring process at all ever with those things just be vacant until the term is over. That's a really interesting question I'd be interested hearing people's opinions about what the term should be for this board. All right, well, what do you see him every day. Well, not anymore somebody. Can you mute. Okay. Thank you. Well, that's simple, like we can take a look at what planning board how they appoint people. Sometimes it's a staggered. It could be two year three years so that people don't serve their town, everybody all at the same time. So we can take a look at different boards in the town and see how they do it. But the second thing I want to say about actually the five member board. Okay, because I did ask the question. I pose it to serving them, some of the members. The reasoning being that, first of all, you have to make the board attractive enough for right folks to apply. The 10k, you know, say that the town will invest 50k a year. So that's how the price member thing came out. Otherwise, they were thinking like more than that. Then I am recommending for seven member so that at least two people from this group. And it could join. And it could be non biker person and one biker person or whatever. And then I just want to make sure that, you know, with the board, sometimes people might quit. We don't want to be in a situation where you start with five. I flushed this out with some people, like you don't want to start with five and somebody said, Oh, this is not really what I thought they will be they quit. And then you go for three. I don't really like three people making decisions that's like to narrow. So the more membership the better, but we don't want to make it too much like 13 member or nine member 11 or something like that. It looks like people tend to do odd numbers for committees. So that's how I came up with, you know, suggestion for seven member. I feel much better that way. Because I am in as much as it would be very challenging to recruit people but if the time manager makes it attractive for people, you know, with a steep end. In case of people who have childcare issues and stuff perhaps people might consider it. I don't know. But the fight, you know, is still limiting for me in terms of number. I was the one that recommended eight just because I was thinking like I think the CSWG were at seven people now. And I just feel like we're so overwhelmed so that I said eight, but I'm open to seven to I just think we're asking them to do a lot of work. I think it'd be more effective if they had more people. And I'm in agreement with Miss Pat to about two people going from the CSWG to that. I know the Mr. Ross and somebody else. Let me know that you. Let's see. I'm Brianna. Yep. This job gets longer every week. Is that are we done with the recommendations now? Does everyone feel okay with what we have? And I can share. Oh, Miss Boyston. So I just wanted to say the bulk, if not all of the standard committees are already staggered. I think that the, so either the select board or the council. It was somewhere in between that change created all the boards to be staggered specifically for that reason so that new, when new people come on, there's still somebody there with the history. And then I just, for resident. Oversight board I, and maybe this is in there somewhere and I just didn't see it, but I'm just kind of wondering like there's like a whole cultural change that needs to occur and then like where does that fit in cultural change at the PD that needs to happen and then where does that fit in within all of these recommendations. So, you know, like when you go into the PD granted it is the PD, but you know you shouldn't have something happen to you on the street and then feel shame to go into the, to the, into the station. Right. So I'm just kind of wondering like where do those kinds of things fit into the recommendations. I think I'll miss Walker. I'm sorry, I was just going to say thank you miss my son I think that was helpful to think to be thinking about. And I guess that my thought would be that that would be something that hopefully we would recommend. That we would recommend something along the lines of addressing that in the second report and then that way I think that's like essentially what we were talking about about being in place before the resident oversight board goes into effect so that they can like, so that they're going into it with this that we set up like these things will make it better so that they can actually monitor that and then that they can continue to take in complaints. And those things I think that was my idea I'm not sure if everybody else was on that same page as well as that was the idea that I saw we were going with this. I think to miss moist and one thing interesting thing that you brought up a while back was having officers who speak Spanish patrol areas where there's Spanish speaking people so that there's not that gap, or something similar to that. I, we didn't, we haven't touched on it much but I think one thing that we need to work on and I've heard miss Walker bring it up in previous meetings is accessibility to translation services and Amherst, because how can you feel safe if you don't even like you saying, and then Oh just ask but who are you going to ask if you can't communicate. So I would like the group to look into that. If that was within something that we could do miss moist and. And again and maybe they're in the other recommended like the overall recommendations of part two but I also think like the outreach, like I know you guys have an idea of that somewhere but the community outreach that the PD do does is very crucial here. One of the things that I was interested in that I put, I noticed no one else but it was like the APD programs, because I feel like the programs they have I don't know much about them and I don't know how effective they are when I'm looking at the over time. I'm just thinking like do we need to have these programs going forward. I hope that when we work with consultants it's maybe we can work with them on something like that, because just looking at overtime there's a lot. And why are we asking police to continue to do these programs if they're not really effective and they're not building relationships with the community. So, um, the diversity APD you mean the court, the culture change that miss Marston is recommending. Culture change. Okay. Change not chance. Oh, sorry. A lot of pressure typing live. Mr Vernon Jones. I would hope that that business of all their different programs would come up under our examination of community policing. I think a lot of those things they think of as community policing and that would be a place to comment and make recommendations. I think too, if the translation services doesn't fall under our charge that may be the committee working on the successor group that can be something that they can work on the successor group to make translation services funded and accessible. There you go. So I guess we can move to the next, the next thing on our agenda which is press release and communications I think that because I thought it would be helpful. You know there was a lot of people who spoke out in support of CSWG and so maybe you guys wanted to do a think like a thank you for the support blanket statement or something similar. Miss Pat. Thank you for adding that I actually reached out to one of the coaches for them to think about doing that. In addition to that, I also strongly urge the coaches to write something, not only thinking, you know, but to also write something about our experiences, you know, with the whole thing with town council, and, you know, send it to MS. So I just again have to excuse myself I'll just say it this time so you guys don't call on me and then I'm not here because that's the only time it happens. I'll be right back. Miss Walker. So I really agree with that actually because I was, I mean, as I was at the last public comment period pertaining to our work just really in awe at the community support that we received and the amount of comments and like just across all of town like all the projects and all the different people with different like that had a compilation of different topics that they were speaking on but still touched on Cress, I thought was like really amazing and we should absolutely write something to our community because the amount of support was wonderful. It was really good to see young people to at the public comment, communist support and the amount of people that have written us and like the last two weeks has been amazing. So I'm going to debrief from confused. Yeah, this is the time to deep. Okay. So I wasn't able, I wasn't able to attend the entire town council meeting so I was wondering if Miss Walker and Miss Pat would be able to summarize what happened at the meeting just so I don't miss anything I'm still watching it I have 30 minutes left. But I do want the group to be able to debrief and talk about how that, how that made them, everybody feel and where we go from here. Sorry, can you guys hear me. Yeah. Okay, I was frozen for a minute. Um, yeah, so I'm not sure did did all of the members of the group get to attend the council meeting I know Brianna sorry that you said you didn't finish it but did. Yeah, I was not able to be there. Okay. So maybe you can help because it was very lengthy meeting. And so I honestly did stay all the way until the end just because I couldn't go to sleep and I had to know what was going to happen. But it was really, really long I think it was like midnight, when I actually finished and Brianna and I were able to go for in person public comment and I think it was really great, like just seeing there was a bunch of people who came for in person public comment and people who virtually public commented as well. So there was like an outpouring of support. There were two resolutions that were also passed by the town council pertaining to the Crest program. Pat this is where I may need you to fill in because it was slightly confusing because they were very similar resolutions I think the first one was saying that they're committed to the Crest program and to making it work. And that they are committed to finding the money in order to make sure that a high number of calls can be responded to by Crest responders. And so it was like a very general motion or a very general resolution but that was passed. And then there was another resolution passed that was a little bit more specific saying that the town manager will provide funding for at a minimum eight responders for the first fiscal year and so I think that was an increase to or a change from the first originally proposed motion that it was up to eight responders and changing from up to to add a minimum of eight responders is where I think they ended that and so they were also both very close votes I think they both passed by only one vote. So that happened and then they also passed the budget. They also voted yes to create a revenue street or identify a revenue stream for reparations and create a committee for that. So essentially those were like the major things I think that happened in the meeting Miss Pat. Did I miss anything. So, I mean you basically captured it. First of all I want to start by thanking both of you the coaches that night you guys you know did excellent job as usual with your public comment. I'm very happy to see broad range of residents that made public comments. The meeting was a hybrid. They had some impressing town councillors and audience, they also have some town councillors remote and audience as well. The public comment aspect was more than an hour and half or something like that. And then there was presentation on climate, and then that ended and then they took on press press was the only program they discussed there was to resolution that was presented the one. The first one that was sponsored by councillor Joe, is that her name. Yeah, something about they don't know how many responded that is needed they need data this and that. I wanted that one and then the second one was the one that was sponsored by Alissa Brewer and the end dangerous. And that one up to eight I'm just repeating what Alicia said that one in particular really like confused me because of one of the sponsors. Overall, with the vote of them doing up to its responders didn't surprise me I didn't have much expectation that anything will change from what the, from what the finance committee had recommended anyway. And so I, you know, I watched all the meeting, almost to the end, and for some reason, even though I was disappointed that I'm not angry because I was numb. It feels like, you know, this is what happens all the time in this town so I sort of like prepared myself, you know, not to get stressed for nothing. And, you know, I'm just very grateful for all the support and we got the, the petition drive. We had more than 200 petition in just two days. You know, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, three days. So that was good just to, you know, I saw some of the names of people who, you know, who supported us I was like, Wow, I miss what is changing it will happen. And to have our youth, you know, really our young generation and, you know, people your age our coaches like, like it made it so very hopeful that change will come in our midst, and it will be slow, but you know just want everybody to take care of themselves. And to hang in there. And I'm hopeful. You know, that's all I will say that. Yeah, it is what it is. Yeah. And the reparation day. They voted to create a standing committee. That will include like some of the elected officials of BIPOC folks, and one representative for from reparation for almost. And they agreed to have some funding to start off that will be invested. And perhaps the interest is what the, you know, the reparation group will use. So I mean it's a mixed meeting that night. That's all I can say. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Pat, Mr. Vernon Jones. Oh, you're muted. So I'm going to go to Zoe Crabtree from the D fund groups and out a email about the motions and me first of all thank you to be on and Alicia for speaking and representing us. I just love that you stand up for us. Now, if they approved eight responders, that's more than the town manager recommended it's more than the finance committee funded, and it's pretty rare for it's for me for town council to overrule its own finance committee so the fact that they added some, I think is a testament to the tremendous outpouring of support we had. But the other two things that were in this motion apparently one of them was that the program will not crest will not be evaluated until they have 12 months of data. And I think that's really big because you know we're going to have very little experience coming up to the preparation of the next budget. And the other is that they committed to funding crests in FY 23 at the at least the same number of positions, even though it's going to raise as much because they're going to be for the full year instead of half a year. So the idea that we've got a commitment to fund the program at least at the same size for FY 23. I is is unheard of in my experience. And a very significant good thing. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Go ahead, Miss Walker. No, I was actually just going to call on you also because Brianna was gone. Okay. I just have been like I have wanted to say this for a little bit and I know that it is disappointing that you guys weren't fully funded in the way that you want to do. And so it really just shows the leadership that you all have and the respect from the community and you guys should be very, very proud, even though it's not. It didn't come out exactly as you wanted it to, but you guys definitely move. I mean you got the budget to change, which almost rarely happens in that manner that you guys got that increase. We went from four to, I think at some point, six and then to eight and that is like ginormous in the world of municipality. So you guys have done a fantastic job. I'm super proud to be your staff liaison. Oh, thank you, Miss Winston, Miss Pat. Yeah, thank you for that comment. The reason I didn't feel that way. The finance committee recommended up to eight, nothing changed, you know, with the town council, they also said up to, you know, minimum eight whatever language they use. I think the fact that they didn't even mention a discourse, but you know, how they didn't connect, you know, preventative services is like beyond me. I was scratching my head, even if they're not going to fund it. Nobody made the effort. And I, I, I get it that it was late late late night, and I commend them for staying up so late, you know, I appreciate, you know their time what they do. It was quite late they were there to 1am literally. And the fact that it wasn't mentioned, you know, I felt very insulted, like, don't these people not see the connection between preventing prevention, and what a PD and crash so it's just, yeah. I don't know how I felt. I don't feel like any win. I know we moved the needle a little bit. I'm still scratching my head how it responders will work. So we'll wait and see but I am hopeful. As long as we continue to engage the community as well as long as we continue to the active, we will continue to move the needle, but I was not impressed at all. Just because I know we have the money, it's not about the money is about priority and it had it did not change for me that night, you know I didn't feel any sense of we've accomplished something. I mean we have but I guess because I went in, not having much expectation so I like the fact that I prepared myself mentally. I think, thank you miss Pat, I think I was a little bit disappointed to. There was a lot of comments that counselors made that disappointed me, but I feel like right now is like a great time for members of our group and people in the community to fuel us to go forward, and to consider running and to get more involved, because a lot of things that I didn't like happened at that meeting a lot of counselors said things that I hope no representative would say ever. I don't want to single anybody out but I do think that we have to change that and make sure that our voices are not just on the groups but are represented in town council, and it should fuel us to keep going. Miss Pat and then Miss Walker. I will also encourage us to put together a book that will be a gift to the town libraries, because what our group has done and continue to do is historic. So that will be a legacy that will live for this resident and for future generation. I don't want our effort to get lost. I want to document it, hide together, not for sale, but a nice gift for the town, something for us to think about to compile it, because we have them good stories to tell in that book. That's a suggestion. That's a good idea, Miss Walker. Yeah, I was actually going to say I also really love that idea Miss Pat, thank you. And then in terms of the council meeting. I have a lot of really mixed feelings about it and honestly I felt like I was on a roller coaster the entire time I was watching, because I would like start to get excited about some comments that were being made and then some weird comments would be made, and then they would like ghost like it was just all I feel like it was all over the place. Honestly, there were things that happened and things that were said, that made me kind of proud because there were things that counselor said that they got directly from us. And you know they got them directly from us and I was like, oh, they were listening to us they heard us, but then they would say some things and I'd be like all right so they didn't get that part. It was a really weird, it was really weird for me, and I also have mixed feelings about the resolutions that were passed because like, like Miss Pat said it's like, really not what I wanted at all. And I was really, really hopeful for a different outcome. But I also don't think it went the worst. That's why I'm like, alright. I wouldn't necessarily say I felt happy about it, but I didn't feel terrible. And so like also like Brianna and Miss Pat said I feel like really hopeful for next steps, though, coming out of this meeting. And I like the fact that the resolutions that were passed are committing them like Mr. Vernon Jones brought up to at least the same amount of funding for next year and more, and also the number of responders. Like I do hear what Miss Pat said it was like a very minor change of changing up to eight responders and changing it to a minimum of eight responders is like a very minor change. But I do think that's big because then they could have given us four and said that that's up to eight and now they have to at least give us eight. I mean, it's still not what I wanted and I also have a hard time seeing how that could work but then that's where the other the other resolution comes into play because they also claim that they're willing to invest whatever it takes. So if we start with a and then are evaluating and like oh this is not enough. They committed to finding the resources to make it enough. And so I think we have enough to hold, we have more to hold them accountable to. I think it's still helpful. It's still like a fight and I feel like it's still going to be like people have to keep up the work and have to keep up the pressure, but they gave us a little bit more of tangible things to grip into. And I think like the council elections next year will change things dramatically but I think as of right this second, we have like a little bit more direction to go in. You know, when they were discussing the resolution that actually was off putting for me because resolution is not binding. Another slate of town councilors can come in and they may not, they don't have to follow it, they don't have to do anything about it. I look at resolution document as just ceremonial. You know, it's not, it's nothing less than that any, anything statement document that is not impossible. I don't, I don't have value for it. So I was actually quite annoyed about that the whole process. And perhaps they're thinking it's a compromise. But to me it's like, do these people think we're stupid that we don't understand what resolution means or what. So I, I was actually annoyed about that. I just want to say that. I think that you guys have a lot of valuable input to send to the whatever the next successor group is and the resident oversight board and whatever happens with the ECAC board and whatever other boards just the processes that you guys went through and not being aware like, not being fully aware of how the budget actually works like that whole process. And so those are all things that should be included when you are, you know, making creating a successor board and and and working with the resident oversight board because those things are so important because can you imagine how much, how helpful that would have been if you guys had known those certain things then and then also, and I think at the same time and I know it was disappointing I mean, this is it's local government and that's really all and but it. I think that you guys actually probably made so many community members just think about the fact that wow we can really just do this because one of the things that's really hard about engaging the community with local government is they can really representation of themselves and it kind of creates this or can create a factor of like not wanting to be involved because you don't see anybody who can relate to you and we all know how hard it is to be in a space where you, you don't feel related to. And so I believe that you guys probably have started to encourage a community that you don't usually typically hear from in local government to maybe possibly be more involved in local government, and that it helped empower the community itself. And I know it's still not what you guys want it but it's still good. And I don't know how to explain that to you, but you guys today, you guys deserve to have all of your recommendations implemented and I don't yeah, I don't really know how to say it but I think you brought up a really good point about the resolution and for me I was thinking, Miss Walker and I have been thinking about that when we wrote our, our public comment we were thinking like are we going to include the resolution that they made in December because they made this commitment to go through town policies and departments and make sure that they're anti racist and equitable and our charges, it's like a fight to extend it. So I hear you. So, you know, feel good type of thing, you know that we're trying, we're trying just is talking to talk. I like to see, you know, what the talk. Are there any other things on the agenda. It's almost. Now I didn't have anything else I guess. I don't know the script. I think, are there any upcoming events or anticipated topics that the chair didn't anticipate within 48 hours I think it is. Oh, Mr. Vernon Jones and then Miss Moisten. And we ask our chairs to draft a statement, thanking the community. Absolutely we can work on that. And it should go out to the papers as well. I just don't want to, did you guys talk about the town forms or no just table that because I know depth for error is really big on that one too so. Are you miss that. Are you suggesting with, we come up with tentative dates in August. No, summer's too hard. Very, very. Yep. And so during the fourth of July celebration on the South Amherst Common, there's the reading of the Frederick Douglass declaration of what to the slave is the fourth of July. So, it's a great declaration to be read. I don't have the flyer in front of me, but it's a great event. So I suggest that if you guys haven't gone to one of the readings before that I encourage you to. Thank you, Miss Moisten. And with all of our business complete, I guess I'm going to call the meeting adjourned. Thank you all and I'll see you next Thursday, July 1, I believe Thursday at 530. Thank you all. Thank you. Thank you.