 And we are back with the breakfast, let's delve into the next conversation. Now, over time, it's been a lot of argument as to the involvement or the impact of ethnicity and religion on our elections. But really, do these factors play out during the elections? And do they influence, you know, the political terrain for Nigeria? It's a conversation we'll be delving into as in no time. We have Tunde Kolaulihu be joining us this morning. I mean, Tunde, it's good to have you join us. Good morning. All right then. Now, just a bit of a background to this discussion we'll be having. A recent poll conducted by SBM Intelligence in partnership with enough is enough, Nigeria, has shed light on the impact of ethnicity and religion on Nigerian voted turnout. Now, the poll gathered data from 11,534 respondents across the country, probing into the voting intentions and preference in the upcoming presidential and parliamentary elections on Saturday 25th of February 2023. The survey highlighted the impact of ethnic and religious division or divide on voted turnout with respondents in some region indicating that these factors would play a significant role in their decision to participate in the election. Now, according to poll result, many respondents cited ethnic and religious factors as key determinants of their voting decision to make sense of all of this and analyze these findings ahead of the forthcoming election is Tunde Kolaulihu, who's a legal practitioner right here in Lagos. Tunde, it's good to have you join us. Good morning. Good morning. Tunde, do you agree with the SBM? The Nigerian constitution expands the mixing of religion with politics and the constitution says that nobody should be discriminated against on the basis of religion or ethnicity or disability. For the reality of life is that it's been difficult for women to take religion, to take ethnicity out of their political beliefs, out of their political practices, out of their voting patterns. And unfortunately, it is not peculiar to Nigeria, you know. If we assign democracy to a society that is well educated and has impacted democracy for years, you still find out that religion and ethnicity, in one way or another, influences their political beliefs and the way and manner in which they vote. I give you an example. In the country like Germany, we even have political parties that are formed on the basis of religion. Say, for example, the Christian Democratic Union in Germany. Also, when you go to a place like Spain, you'll find out that the Catalan, who are a kind of a tribe in Italy, who usually vote for a political party that the Catalan people are formed. And they will use that as a basis for institutions to create another state, to create another country in the place like Spain. Also, when you look at the Arab world, you'll find out the Shia, the Shia, and some of these other religious, Islamic religious denominations tend to vote for political parties that spring up from their religious beliefs as homogeneous as a country like Kirani in terms of religion. But they fear the challenges of some people in their side, some in their Shia, and no manners of religious activities and all that. So, the findings of that research is not far-fetched. Here in Nigeria, there is a number, especially the Yoruba people. They are most conservative. They actually want to vote for somebody who comes outside the ethnic base or culture. Now, the reason you find out all the time, all who have played this politics, the Yoruba are always totally behind them. Also, in the northern part of the country, you'll find out that there are a lot of those who are full of, are always voted. And as there are people who vote for a political party that has a fuller, more announced man as his presence here and then as his governorship candidate. Religion is also a very potent weapon in the northern part of the country. In fact, sometimes when a lecture is made about 20 hours, on the Friday, for example, the Islamic clerics, the Muslims, the Imams, in some of those churches, who give a directive as regards the religious, I mean the political parties, that the Muslims in the north are for the aggressions in the north to vote for. So, it's a very, very potent weapon. And it's all prequels in Nigeria. In a place like England, an Anglican church has a very significant influence as regards the political processes that take place in those places. We cannot wish it away. And the funny aspect of it is that as educated as some of these people, you will think that when people become well educated, when they become cosmopolitan, when they are taboo, param, white, they should be shedding their tinnish toga. They should be shedding their religious toga. But education, cosmopolitanism, cosmopolitanism, and what happened to the Kala Walei, and the tinnitus out of it is political living. So, I mean this report or findings saying that the 2023 elections would have or witness a lot of voted turnout as compared to previous years. And you have agreed that these issues would always shape the elections. But let's cast our minds back to the 1993 elections where it wasn't a problem because it was a Muslim-Muslim ticket. Why is that different? I mean, what exactly? How come religion and ethnicity did not play or have a huge role to play in that election? And why would the 2023 election be decided by religion and ethnicity? Well, it is not totally true that religion had nothing to do with the 1993 elections, in spite of the fact that the Muslim-Muslim ticket was able to win the presidency. The circumstances of 1993 is totally different from what we experienced in 2023. Me and I would rule. At the end, I was a cosmopolitan person, highly charismatic. He was a philanthropist and then half white from the different parts of the country. Everywhere he goes, in Nigeria, it was like a hope for him. He was such a very charismatic and colorful political leader. And then in vice-president of Akin Gibi, was also somebody of that nature and status. The white was only the Akin Gibi and then also, because he's been in politics for a long time, he's made friends from across the country. So because of their own charisma, it was not too difficult to really sell the Muslim ticket, the Muslim-Muslim ticket to the average Nigerian person in 1993. But me and I would rule that a lot of water has passed under the bridge since 1993. For example, there was no Bokoara in 1993. For example, issues, mundane issues, like wearing of hijab and no wearing of hijab. What is our mission in before 1993? Furthermore, the Christian military that we begin to see all over the country too is not as competent as it is today. So, so many things are happening in Nigeria. Touch that, a wildlife. There is a scale. They are religious beliefs or they are religious dispositions and others. They've been spoken and manipulated by a religion to achieve whatever they want to achieve, either in the area of politics, or in the area of Christian, or in the attempt to dominate people from the other areas and sectors of the Nigerian society. The religion has become a political thing in the hands of a wildlife. Which of them is very much a development? To De Kola Wally, I mean, if we look at this, if you look at the art democracy from the time that we say we have been practicing, the 1993 elections might just be the only elections where these issues were downplayed. And I really don't know if we will get the answers. The answers have been given. Well, you want to ask yourself, how come these issues were not even an issue? Because over time, elections have been shaped by this factor. And the 2023 elections, it's not going to be different, however it is. But do you also think that the dichotomy between the North and the South is also a major issue? What we classify as rotational presidency? Do you think that that also will contribute to whether the South or the North or the ethnicity and religion becoming a factor for the 2023 election is predominant? There is no doubt about it. I have no doubt in my mind that this regional dichotomy also would have the role to play in the 2023 elections. And like I said earlier, let's be very careful. In the South Republic, religion was an issue. We had another element, progressive union, and then you have NTSC and some of these other different political parties that even though they may not see to say it openly or loudly, they still come back to vote based on religion. Now, the journalism has become even more escalating. You know, if you recall, it was under Jerusalem's attack that Nigeria was quietly and tacitly divided into six regions. North, East, North, West, and West. And that itself arose out of a desire to pacify those who are grieved with the notification of the election that was conducted in 1993. And I think it's a our political history. Each time I went over, for example, as to the election, the people in the South had never voted for him. They go with NTSC or with whatever political party that Dr. Namda Zikwe might have established. I suspect the reason for that was partly because of the role that he provided in the whole of place, not only in the Nigerian civil war. And also, the way and manner Dr. Zikwe was shoved aside from the politics of Southwest of Nigeria, because if you look at our political history, Dr. Namda Zikwe's political party, the NTSC, was the one that was dominated in the West, in the Southwest. They were winning elections. They were having people in the legislators in the pattern, whatever. But when all started, the action group, and he mobilized these people based on ethnicity and what have they, they were able to, so to say, with the apology, remove Dr. Zikwe away from the politics of Southwest of Nigeria and never to care. This fraternalism has become worse over time. Yes, please. We don't have so much time, but I'd like to ask you this and let you share your thoughts in just a few seconds. Now, it's very obvious that this has always been an issue up until 1993. And after 1993, ethnicity and religion, according to history, still seem to play a major role. Now, for 2023 elections, few days before the elections, there are also statistics and research that have confirmed that people would turn out to cast their vote because of these factors. My question is, should we, I mean, shouldn't we have a country outgrown all these diversities that has held us bound and back since independence? No, no, we shouldn't. We shouldn't have an outgrown it? You know, the way to look at that is this. The impression that we have in the country today doesn't spare the Muslims, doesn't spare the cultural professionals, the traditionalists, and all that. So the best of my knowledge, we have been under the helmet of inflation. Second, when you look at this security, the banter, the kidnapping, and the lack of safety on the highways, on the railways, even in the air, and this security and religion, you guys know, all of us are caught in the web of all these criminalities that are taking place all over the country. So if that did the case, what is the emphasize thing? Are those things that really unite us as a people? The things that will put food on the table of the average Nigerian person, the thing that creates security for the average Nigerian person, the thing that will make it possible for the average Nigerian person to live a comfortable life without having to steal whether in the private sector or in the public sector. But it is our allies in order to call the advantage, in order to have an image over the allies of the other religions. Who keeps talking the fire of religion? Who keeps talking the fire of ethnicity? Who keeps talking the fire of religionality? If we are the nation to develop and get to the situation we also feel by now, we must be seen to put aside as the position of the empathize that we should never discriminate anybody on the basis of the religion, on the basis of the time they can stop. I'm just saying that Kola Wale, we need to go now, but you say that we shouldn't have, you're asking yourself, why are we still grappling with the issue of religion and ethnicity in 2023? Why is that even the case? What was different in 1993 when these factors wasn't even a yardstick? But is that really the case for 2023? You want to ask another question, but in all of this, how far have we been? 1960 up until this moment, we're grappling with that. Should people not cast their vote based on, it's not important wherever it is that you're from or whatever religion that you hold, but what it is that you are, who you are, should that not be the basis that we're one entity, what is important that you have, who is qualified to be part, I mean to be elected to that position. Tunde, I know you have your question, I mean your response to this question, but we don't have time to get that right here. We have to go and I hope that we can have this conversation just before the elections or after the elections. Thank you so much for being part of the conversation. Good morning. Okay, well why that hasn't been the case for us is what we're trying to understand would be right back here to have further conversations. Please stay with us.