 You're welcome back. We're glad to know that you're still there. It's still the run-up, and now we're being joined by legal practitioner and human rights advocate. And we're looking at women's participation in politics. It's my honor to welcome Bolanli Akkin-Laby. Good morning and welcome to the program. Good morning. Thank you very much. Okay. Well, we have 18 presidential candidates in the forthcoming election. None of them is a woman. Does it give you concern? Yeah, well, it does. It does. This is Nigeria. Okay. We're both male and female, but out of everything, we have just male. Why? So, but what do you think is the reason for this? A lot of times women say that they don't have a good playing field. They don't have the good laws, enabling laws. They don't have a lot of things. Some people argue that everything is the same, and it's either you can do it or you cannot do it. Do you agree to that? I don't. So why don't you agree to it? Because they say women have voice. They say women use their voice. But we indeed are actually not allowed to even use our voice or let me hear it physically. How do you mean? I mean in the sense that when you had of the old, let me come back home. In Nigeria, we have the Senate, we have the House of Assembly. To shock anybody to say out of all of this, we have just 5% of women involved in them. Out of senators, 109 senators, we have just seven or six as females. Out of three or nine, 16 members, the House of Representatives, we have just about, I think, 12 or 13 women. And in totality, we have just 19. For me, it's more of how we allowed women so far to be heard. Either you say, oh, the culture doesn't allow women to talk in public. If you talk too much, it's a problem. To show your interest in politics, which is allowed, although we don't have any law in place. This number of quotas of women that are allowed to be in these seats where we have 109. It's alarming for me. It's alarming. Out of 109, we don't have a particular law that says out of 109, 50 should be women. It's your show of interest. And in politics, there's a lot to put in place. We have the money in flow. How many people want to support you with their cash as a sponsor? Because in politics, you must have a sponsor that will sponsor you all through. How many really want to support a woman to run? How many people would say, okay, regardless of what is happening about culture, women are not supposed to contest. You have a family. You have children. You won't have time for this. Let the woman, let the man in the house go for it while you support. I mean, there's a lot of shortcomings in terms of women's involvement in politics. Wouldn't that be what people would call listening to psych talks? Or is it true that because people say that women like gossip, because why would they say you have a family? You cannot contest. And you know it's something that is good enough for you. And you're not going for it. I always have this example. I'm not talking against the woman. I'm trying to look at the scenario now. I like to use this example of, say, going for a wife or a job. The conditions are the same for the male and female. And the female likes selling. No matter what society says, there was a time when the women or the female child was not really given that opportunity to go to school and all that. But the women showed working as it were. And because they showed working, they are now excelling. When we see the results of YX, sometimes women have better grades than the men and all that. They didn't have to give a special law for the woman to do this. And in spite of what the society might think about the woman, the women are still excelling whenever it comes to a point where both the men and the women are supposed to do a particular thing with the same playing field. So it beats me whenever women argue that the political climate is not favourable to them. And like you have just added, because people say women should not do X, Y, Z. And they begin to use that as a complaint. It beats me. I don't understand. I've never been a woman and I don't intend to be. So Bio is dying to ask you questions. I know he's just waiting to ask you questions. But just enlighten me more. What else can we do? It's like a husband in the house and he's just like, what can I do to satisfy my wife? I've done this and I've done that. And she's still complaining. So how different can the political climate be that it can be said to be favourable to the women? Yes. You would give us having to use our voice. In what way? In a sense that you don't tell us that, which is true, there are strategic points to where you want the woman. You want the woman to be in the planning and not be in the implementation. You want the woman to be part of, you know, you can't be in these strategic parts. Be in the committee that sees to this part. You know, it's like you said, and I love that, that exams are put in place, not considering, okay, a woman take the little parts, the man should take that. So if I can excel in other part of life, what can I excel? Why can't you give me that voice? Give it to all. You can take this part of the political part. You can't take it because you don't use it. Do they actually say that? It doesn't have to be said with words. Okay, then how do you explain when we have just seven? Buy or help me please. How do you explain me? Buy or help me. Please let buy or help me here. Oh goodness. Help me or buy. Yes. I was interested in the question you asked Yambo. And I wanted to actually strengthen the position that you have taken so that Bollandé can respond in a more consolidated manner. I'll give you some examples. You see, the moment the legal framework, if there are legal impediments, the moment the legal impediments are removed, we have seen women excel. I'll give you one example. Female combat pilots were never allowed in the Nigerian Air Force. There was no legal impediment. It was just tradition. Okay. The moment it was firmly asserted, and that was during the group of general presidents, that females can become combat pilots in the Nigerian Air Force. And that females can become combatant officers and should be admitted into the Nigerian Defense Academy. Now we have several females as combatant officers doing exactly the same thing as male combatant cadets. We have several female combat pilots now in the Nigerian Air Force. We have female professors in many Nigerian universities. In fact, females were one of the first states when we appointed professors in Nigeria. Females were also one of the first set of professors admitted. And I remember Professor Bollandé always celebrating her night care. It has to be Bollandé. A few weeks ago, she was one of the first. So what I'm trying to say is this, there is no impediment anymore. I think it's just a question of interest. I think it's just that women are just not that much interested. What's your reaction to that? No, I would say no to that. It's not like we are not actually interested. We are. But we are not given, like I said, it's not like there are laws in place, particularly. The gender disparity is not something handwritten. It's something seen. It's something, I show my interest and then you let me know that, oh, go and get people to support you. When if you demand, you ordinarily, without looking for people to support you, you are there to show your support. Because you know that nobody wants to listen to a woman to speak. An example would be, and at times, I think another issue we have is women against women at times. Because you hear, why does she have to be the one contesting? Why this? Why that? Given reasons? Why the woman should not even go? And I feel like a woman should support women. I think as a last 2021, for women, International Women's Day, we had this saying equal for equal. But how far does it go for equal for equal? If we have, you were saying something about combat, if we have a constitution, aside agencies that we have in Nigeria that come to say, okay, let's work for women, advocacy and all of that, we don't have any particular laws or any particular establishment. And I bring up that says, if this is how it is, you would see men show interest. But when I show interest, and I don't have a supporter, when I show interest and people are not ready to support me, it just makes you feel, let me just support the man that they want to support. But if I raise a voice once, and then you tell me, oh, go and look for this. And then as I'm looking for sponsors to help me, I hear one of the two things that discourages me, because I am a woman, you would want to show interest again. But if that's, she's a woman is not there. Sorry, if that woman is, she's a woman is not there, you would give me that opportunity, that ample opportunity as you would give a man. You would see we would go far. We want to, I'm sure a lot of women want to. But we are not given that avenue. So what should women do to support themselves? Because we have seen very, we have seen very vibrant initiatives that have been there so many. We have, we have female multimillionaires in Nigeria. One of the richest, perhaps now, maybe the second richest African woman is a Nigerian. Okay. And she easily falls into the first five categories of billionaires in Nigeria. So we know there are very rich women. We know that women are extremely intellectual, several professors and so on. What should women be doing to encourage themselves? Because 2023 elections has been the same story in terms of participation. But looking forward now, what should women be doing to encourage themselves? We support ourselves. Let me give, I like hypothesis a lot. Imagine we are 20 people in the room, 10 women and 10 men. And then you have, you know men, one thing I've come to understand about men is if you give me what you want to do, how you want to do it, and I see that that passion is there in you. I feel like men will support. But if you, like I was saying, 10 men, 10 women, and then out of the 10 women, one is about to speak about something. You know, let's do this, let's do that. And right out of the 10 women, one is saying, why is this questioning themselves? You know, the man are actually just looking. And out of that 10, they're going to be dividing the 10. Five will either go for the one that is about to say something positive and that's about to shut the other person down. From there, it breaks the votes. But if you have women that support me regardless, when you see, first thing is, see my interest. Let go of, build my help, build my confidence. Once you hear that I have this, don't shut me down, don't give me reasons why. 10,000 reasons out of 1,000 reasons that I've said, why I shouldn't go for this. I'm talking about women, I'm not even men. We know we have the confident factor. Some women are not that confident, even though that passion is there for them. We have the culture part of it that, oh, women are not allowed to do this. And the next one is childcare. You're supposed to take care of your children. You're supposed to, if you look beyond all of that, I'm talking about women now. Because before I can push further, if I have another woman hold my hand, I know I can go places. I know I can. So now it's mostly the women. It's not mostly because it's part of it. Because I don't, well, bio you're still on. This current campaign, I look at posters. Most of all I see that women are contesting for probably local assemblies, I'm not even seeing the active part of, I would do anything to be part of it, but let's go back to what I was saying. I'll help you. I'll help you. Yes. I know you would. They are mainly deputies to male governorship candidates and to be very, very frank, I think that is from descending. It's just that we, every male candidate emerges and then makes a woman his deputy. Is that all that women are good enough for? I think at this point all of us should, should actually bow our heads down in shape, to be honest. Because we have women that have excelled, you know, is it that all the political parties can do is always to make females deputies to male governorship candidates? Because that's the highest that you see. And it's been like that since 1999. Except for maybe one or two exceptions, when we've had female governors. I think one was a deputy becoming the governor, you know, and so on. So how do we men, what child do you have for women? We spoke about what women can do to support themselves. But women, what should we change in our mindset? To make a reality. Yes. The men, right? Yes, the men. I feel, and I believe, men are ready to, except you're not ready, don't be seen as feminist. Some women, they will tell you that I'm not seeing this because I'm a feminist. I'm not seeing this so that you don't see me as a feminist. But I think, but I'm like, this notion of a feminist, feminism is not how we even see it. Feminism is, is not, oh, push and push. Feminism is when you support my idea as a woman and you don't push me to the back. Let me speak, hear me speak. That's what, so you don't say, oh, you want to talk, you don't see me as a feminist here. I'm like, no. You support us. That's what we want. Support our ideas. Sell out our idea for us. I'm explaining to you about something. This is what I want to go for. Push my hand as well. I know some people that would help you. Don't start giving me, you have what? If you listen to some things that some men would tell you. I can see where you're going. Well, for this discussion, Bayo has broken the brusque code as we have it because, you know, like you say, women may not support women, but men know where they're going and they support themselves. So this time, that means what is going on is not really a cultural thing foisted on the women, but the women themselves now swallowing it hook, like, and sinker and believing in most cases that they are inferior ones. So that means that's a general call for the women to stand up and do what is right and support what is theirs. Not regardless. You have to have a good plan. You have to have strong passion for something you have to have to show working. But we always do. You always do. Well, but there are the women that are given minister of women affairs, run by women. We don't have men affairs there. There are women that are given percentage in the number of people that can be ministers or something, you know, at 35% affirmation. We don't have that as men, but we still face this problem all the time. I'm not, I'm trying to be on the other side. Bio is on your side clearly. It's on your side clearly. But I agree with you and I agree with bio. If we are not doing well, we have to, even if we are doing well, we have to do better and encourage the women. But I think it should start from the cradle, like teacher women to know that they can do what men can do. It's not to compete with women, with men, because I mentioned it also that sometimes the feminism factor is taken too far and you don't do the right thing and you just target feminism instead of supporting what is right, no matter the gender that it is, whether male or female. So men generally, let me tell you a secret. We are intimidated by women. So when a woman wants to rise, unless it takes a whole lot for us to accept it because we are afraid of what the outcome might be. That's its simple psychology. We fear the women more than we fear ourselves. So we bond together to survive you. So understand that. So the call now today is for the women to stand up and rise up and that is how it should be. So the final word to the people, young girls, ladies of your time, everybody who has an aspiration, something to say to them. Don't give up, don't stop because whatever anybody says to you, you have an interest in something and you believe in what you have and what you want to do. Don't let them tell you, oh, you are too proactive. That's what you hear. You seem like you know too much. Don't let people use that to draw you back. If you have an idea and you like it and you love it and you're passionate about it, sell it out. No matter what, one person will buy into your idea and one person will inform someone else to inform someone else and that's how it is. It's like a channel. It's like a chain. But if we draw from that your idea and you don't believe in that your idea that you have or your belief is not that 100%. Even when they start asking you some famous questions, you feel faint. You feel, oh, maybe I'm not deserving of it. So just believe in your idea personally and sell it to one person with strong, strong, strong, how I like that word now, strong faith in yourself and that person will help self and other person and that's how it builds. Okay, we know that we've had the moderators of this world. We've had the Harriet Topman women of this world and so many other women. Sometimes you start what I will term a revolution but it may not materialize in your time but posterity will judge you favorably and that's what we're talking about today. Women stand up to your responsibility and be humans rather than agenda. I would like to say thank you to you, Barista, Bonaleh, and Kilarabi for coming on the show. It's a pleasure having you. Thank you for having me. Okay, we'll take a break for the news and when we return we'll conclude the program. Stay with us.