 We have finally reached the final part of this five-part series. Of course, we saved the best for last. In part five of this interview, we asked Kevin about the big elephant in the Plater-Earn room. Sustainability. We also asked about his perspectives on Ponzinomics and what they're doing to avoid some of the crucial mistakes that some of these other Plater-Earn games have made. Kevin then goes into the genal pets, tokenomics, and gives us some alpha on the future. You don't want to miss this one. Let's dive right in. All right, so now we're going to jump into probably one of the biggest topics with every move to earn and Plater-Earn game, right? And that topic is, of course, tokenomics. We have seen some really, really out of nowhere projects that have become hugely successful. And just as fast as they've succeeded, they have also fallen because of their tokenomics structure. Sustainability seems to be the main issue with the Plater-Earn games. And it seems to be something that has not been solved yet. We've seen that from Axie Infinity to Steppen, right? So how is the genal pets team addressing this issue here? The first consideration is not anything even to do with tokenomics. It's about the proposition that you were putting in front of the prospective player or the customer, the message that the offer you were giving to them. Traditionally in gaming, it used to be, hey, me money, and I'm going to give you a good time. Now, in some instances, the proposition has changed to, you know, come give me your time and I'll give you money. That's fine. And that's novel. But for one, you need to recognize that that brings in a very specific type of customer. And, you know, because you've established that proposition. And I think for us, we have started, we have always maintained from the beginning that this is a game for different types of people for a diverse group of players with different goals. They're those who are just obsessed with the idea of the pet care game. They're those who just want to focus on fitness. And then there are those who are focused on, you know, the ability to earn or the ability to own these assets for themselves and to own that value. And I think sustainability comes from having a diverse player base with all of these different objectives that you can then use, you know, tokenization and the blockchain to create a system where they can meet each other's needs. And so that's a huge part of what we think it drives, you know, long term sustainability or not the initial proposition that you put in front of your customers. And so, yes, we are the original move to earn project. Yes, you can earn crypto. Yes, everything is an NFT that you can sell for real financial value. But I think we have always been cautious from the beginning and we continue to be so that that is not the only thing you can do in the game. And frankly, that's not even, you know, in some players eyes, the most important thing you can do in the game. The other piece to this is just that, you know, a lot of play to earn games kind of reward you for very simplistic actions. And when we kind of talked about skill gaming, but if it's something everyone can do, then it becomes very difficult to maintain a constant flow of value. Why do we not pay people for walking in real life? Because it's a very, very simple action that, you know, anyone can do. And so in some ways, it's not deserving of, you know, increasing actual rewards. I think sustainability works when you create a skill based game where it's easy to learn, but hard to master. And then you can then distribute rewards appropriately to the players who are high performers versus those who are not. And then that balance, because if you have a real skill game, not everyone will be the best. And you'll have that curve, that distribution allows for a more sustainable allocation of these sorts of rewards. And that's what we've tried to build into even the harvesting mechanic itself. I mean, long term, to me, the true test of sustainability is will players enjoy this game if they knew nothing about the financial impact side, if they knew nothing about the crypto side, not every player has to be that way. But most players need, we need to be able to sell them on that. And that is where you're going to create the sorts of deflationary sinks where people are willing to pay for the memorable experience for the emotional value for the social proof. Those are the things that I think many other companies sort of neglect because they see the easy way forward with customer acquisition by dangling, you know, the lure of gold, the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow to them. For us, you know, we could have gone to market faster with certain features, we chose not to because I think we understand the game has to be solid and it has to be compelling. It has to be a game that can stand on its own two legs. And then the rest will flow naturally from that. Now, another term that I want to just bring up because it's a term that gets thrown around in crypto a lot is the word Ponzinomics. And I'm sure you guys have seen it probably thousands, if not millions of times. Can you speak a little bit about the way that it's structured and on that term of the Ponzinomics? Yeah, I mean, I think the word Ponzinomics has been thrown out around a lot. You know, my understanding of a Ponzi scheme is basically, you know, you're selling something that requires new players coming in and buying more of that in order to pay out the players who came in first or the people who got involved. Yes, correct. And I think that really, you know, in some ways what differentiates that from a basic customer acquisition strategy is are you actually providing the original form of value that you promised? If you're not, then you just keep passing the torch on, you keep passing the buck on until the party ends. But I think there's nothing wrong intrinsically with, you know, attracting new customers by saying this is what we've got to offer. And, you know, that I'm enjoying it and now you can enjoy it as well. And maybe you have to buy it from this marketplace that's provided by the existing suppliers. I don't think there's something inherently wrong with that. The issue is when that promise is the only thing that's left and everything that you earn or everything that you gain ultimately just feeds back into that. There's no actual real value that's created that the player can take away and it's their own. And that's, I think that's a distinction. And that is also why we're so careful about continuing to release game content and continuing to fulfill the promise, the original promise of an amazing, you know, fitness pet care RPG with crypto that the whole project that we promised from the beginning. I think, you know, it's a difficult line to tread, especially when you see the allure of just kind of how far a promise gets you an empty promise gets you. But certainly for us, we're very, very sensitive to that. Yeah, that's actually a question submitted by Ozzy Wasabi. So thank you very much, Ozzy. Now, the next thing here is, and, you know, because there's so many games out there in the move to earn, play to earn, it's a question submitted by Mitchell. What measures are you taking to avoid mistakes made by other play to earn games like Axie Infinity and Steppen? Well, I wouldn't say that we specifically were like, hey, they made this mistake, and we're not going to make that one. I have too much respect for both of those teams. I know that they are, they've accomplished so much in their own right. We have nothing but respect for those other projects. I think in general, speaking of the category overall, the biggest sort of mistake we try to remind ourselves to avoid is to not forget about the big picture and to really to think about what success means for your project. If it's about blowing up your token and making a crap ton of money in a very short amount of time and then getting out of there, that's a whole different path. And I think for us, and I don't think anyone comes into the space or a few people come in thinking in such a malicious or exploitative way, but somewhere between that and taking the ultra hard route of just building and building and building before you see any of these returns is where projects have to find their balance. And I think for us, maintaining that balance between seeing what the excitement and the hype can bring us in the short term versus are we making real progress every day towards building the kind of substantial, concrete, awesome quality game that we have in our minds and in our design documents in all of our work today, maintaining that balance has been the biggest challenge and that's the mistake, if you want to call it that, that we try to avoid every day. To not be too distracted by some of the short term hype and the short term allure of things and to focus and to remind ourselves that if that was what we were chasing from the beginning, we would have done things very differently from the beginning. The other question I have, so you guys have a dual token system, so can you talk a little bit about why you guys chose to have this route, the dual token system and how it works within the economy? How I guess each works in their own right and how they work together? Yeah, and I think this is an area that we could probably publish more clarification on, so I'll take that note away as well, but at its core the gene token which we launched first is our primary governance and staking token. It is required for the most critical or most significant actions within the game itself as well. So for example, if you want to create a toy item, you may not, you won't need gene for most recipes, but if you want to create a habitat, you need gene as well as key. And you can stake gene for various perks and rewards, you can stake gene to receive key. Gene will also hold the governance rights when we start to roll out more of those features as well to have more of a decentralized decision-making authority. That's quite some time away, but eventually we want to truly pursue that route as well. Gene is pivotal to that. And over the medium term, we see gene as something that the player can utilize to kind of benefit from ultra-powerful features or to have a say in the world that we're building. Now the key token is just the in-game utility token. It's the primary component. People talk about people hear in-game reward token, they immediately think of something that they can spend or trade for cash or something like that. That's not it for me. It's like gold in World of Warcraft. It's like currency, but it's also one of the most basic crafting materials or everything else in the game. So if you love the game and if you enjoy crafting and if you're actually making money from crafting and selling, he is a very important and necessary commodity. It's a resource that you need, just like crystals and refined gas from Starcraft to actually make what you need. And so that's the utility and the importance of key, and that's what you can earn from walking. Now the reason we went with the dual system is that in-game economies can be very volatile on a short-term basis, and players are going to do what players do. And so it didn't make quite sense to have all of that live within the same token. And so we pursued that dual token system. It's still early days, and so a lot of the utility I'm talking about is yet to be released, but that's kind of how we're thinking about the overall framework. Okay, and are both these tokens, do they have a limit as far as max supply, or are any of them unlimited? Yeah, so kind of in line with what I described, Jean being sort of the gatekeeper to a lot of really important perks and abilities and privileges, there's a fixed supply, there's 100 million Jean out there, I think the circulating supply is a little bit less than 4% of that. And every Jean that is kind of burned, like used for an in-game purpose, is actually not burned at all, it's just returned to the Treasury. So there will always be just 100 million Jean that's being circulated for those purposes. Key token, however, is, you know, there is no fixed supply, it's as much as people can generate. However, when key is used in the game, it is well and truly burned. And so it is a true open inflationary token that's meant to be used actively and consistently within the game. And I know that you told me one of the burn mechanisms are restoring the habitats. What other burning mechanisms are within the game? Yeah, so really anything to do with the habitat requires key, upgrading, terraforming, so creating new habitats, restoring a habitat, crafting will require different recipes will require different amounts of key. You can even use key to get energy if you'd like, you get an amazing exchange rate on that. So the idea there is that for people who really just want to play the game, and let's say you just need, you didn't walk enough today, you just need that extra 1000 energy to level up to the next level, you can actually buy key and convert that into energy or get key from someone and convert that into energy for a very, you know, attractive rate. And so it goes both ways. And it's really meant to be, you know, the commoditization of your, of your energy of your steps. Key is basically your steps turned into a tradable token form. You know, with any player earned game, I think what one of the main questions that I'm always getting is, and that some of you, some of the users are always, especially if there's any, any type of incentive involved, or any type of investment involved, how much money can they make, right? They want to know how much money they can make. And of course they want to know if they can get rich overnight. What one of my favorite things so far is that the game, it has two different routes, like you can play this game for free if you want it as a lifestyle app. Now there is the economy side of the app as well, which you can invest money into. What does that look like? And how, how, how do you guys go about that? Because there's been some games that have come out as a move to earn and then switched over from, from move to earn to being like, no, we're just a lifestyle app. So how do you guys look at that? We do, well, we are, we consider ourselves a game, a very new kind of game, but we are also a move to earn game, very specifically. We just have a very, I think, more, a broader and more, to be honest with you, a more inclusive definition of what it means to earn. If your definition of earning is, let me look at how many tokens are required to make this, and then let me look at how many tokens I can sell it for, or how long it takes to get back the exact number of tokens that I just put in to make this. It's possible, but it's a very limited and narrow way to think about earning. And it will only, it will always be handicapped by the rules, the mathematics of that equation. And also, that means that the more people who come in on a unit economics level, it's very, very difficult to make it, continue to make it a feeling attractive for everyone. So we're just putting that aside for a moment. And let's go back to that system that you talked about, or the free loop versus the paid loop. Let's say you have a baby pet and you work really hard, and you get it up to level 50, and now it's this magnificent beast that's, you know, super developed, strong, rare, because it's so high level, it's got special, you know, characteristics, and you go and you sell that. What is that worth? It could, you could earn a lot, you could earn very little. But what it ultimately depends on is what is the value of that pet to other people. And the value of that pet to other people is ultimately going to be tied to the value of the game and the meaningfulness of the game experience. If people love geno pets, that pet's going to be worth more. If people have no idea what geno pets is, or they hate geno pets, that pet is going to be worth nothing. And you'll notice in neither, in no point did I talk about the value of the key token or where the tokenomics are going. Basically, we're so early in the game and the structure of the economy is meant to be so inclusive that as a community, if we grow this game and it continues to be appealing, and these pets and the world that we've built take meaning in people's eyes and in their gaming experiences, then we basically, we're betting that that value, the value of the game itself will be enough such that when we, as we roll out this player driven economy, the players can share in and really drive the earning from the value of those assets. So I think it's very limited to think too much in terms of like token to token ROI. Instead for us, if the game is popular and valuable and meaningful, then everything within the game will be as well. And that means that gives opportunities for players who are skilled and distinctive within that system to secure more of that value for themselves because of the fact that we built it on top of blockchain. That question was actually submitted by TJ, the mechanic. So thank you, TJ. Is there anything else that you would like to to elaborate on as far as the tokenomics? Anything else you want to add on that we have that we might have missed? Just the last note that, you know, a lot has happened in the last 30 days, maybe even 15 days. And, you know, we're as excited as anyone. But, you know, just just a note to ourselves and to everyone else as well. It's really just the beginning, you know, there's a lot of volatility here and there. I think there's a lot of speculators still coming in. There's a lot of just misinformation or confusion or just general hype. All of this is in some ways noise for, you know, what we need to do next, which is to continue to release game. So I would, I appreciate everyone's patience. I ask people to not get too caught up in the day to day token movements if they can do that and focus more on what we're building and what we're releasing and whether, you know, it's something that's interesting to you. We're seeing a ton of crystals being refined exactly as we imagined. If you're interested in the economy game, keep an eye on that. You know, crystals seem to be very in supply right now and they're very affordable. They're going to be the most important and necessary ingredient for crafting any of those 90 plus craftable items that I just talked about, whether it's special augments and wings and horns and mains for your pet, or whether it's the cosmetic items that allow you to change a pet's colors and, you know, light lines to food, toys, and even battle items down the line. Crystals are going to be the number one ingredient for that. So keep an eye on that. You know, if you really intend on crafting, you may want to stock up a bit because, you know, I've seen the crafting recipes that, you know, it's going to make a lot of sense. Thank you so much, Jay, for having us on. Thank you to all the question askers. So there's some good ones in there. And overall, just thank you all for the continued support that you've shown the project. Still early days, we have so many more exciting things to share with you guys. Hopefully you've seen if you followed our project for a while or even a short while. It may take us a little while, but we always deliver on our promises and the roadmap is the roadmap. We consider, you know, the promises we've made to the community the most important, you know, guiding lights in what we're doing day to day. So thank you again. Appreciate the trust and the faith and excited to enjoy the rest of the journey with you guys. Thank you so much again, Kevin. Appreciate you giving us your time and I can't wait to continue to play this game and see how everything evolves, how everything, all the new features, especially the battling feature. I can't wait. Thank you so much, Kevin. Guys, we finally did it. I hope you enjoyed part five and hopefully all the parts of this video with Geno Pets COO Kevin Kim. If you guys want a free activation code, I have 100 to give away. Drop a comment below referencing your favorite part of this video with your thoughts or comments on it. And of course, make sure you subscribe to the channel, goes without saying. If you guys enjoyed this type of content, let me know in the comments what other projects we should interview next. Remember, we are doing this community style where I gather the questions from you guys, the community. Thank you to Kevin Kim and the Geno Pets team for providing us with their time and the activation codes for the community. They were all class A and I wish them nothing but the best and much success in the future. If you guys missed any of the parts from this five part interview, you guys can start right here at part one. Go ahead. Just click it. If you guys are new to the channel, don't forget to smash that subscribe button. I'll see you guys on our next one. Peace and love.