 So I have just started and opened the meeting at 1132. My name is Jennifer Moisten. I am the assistant director to diversity, equity, inclusion for the town of Amherst. And I am going to go ahead and read the statement. Everybody should have received the message on their screen that stated this meeting is being recorded. With the extension of chapter 20 of the Acts of 2021, this meeting will be conducted via remote means, members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via Zoom or by telephone. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. And so... Thank you very much for reading the statement. I'm Myra Ross, I'm the chair of the DAAC. And before we go any further, I'd like to welcome our two new members. Yay, we don't have all of our current members, but we have our old members, but we have our two new members in Rodewalt and Cody Rooney. And just to tell the two of you that I sent each member of the DAAC a copy of the little blurb that the town manager sent to the town council. So they have your names and would you like to say like just a word of introduction about yourselves before we get to the Jones Library, which is our basic mission of the day? Ian, do you wanna start? Sure, my name's Ian Rodewalt. I have been a Amherst resident for since 2012. I have done a number of things, been a preschool teacher, a student, and I'm now a union organizer with the Western Mass Area Labor Federation. And I'm delighted to be joining this committee and advocating for disability justice, particularly around mental illness, mental health, as well as physical access and proper ventilation in public buildings. Thanks. Fabulous, thank you. Cody, do you wanna introduce yourself? Yeah, I am one of the guys who did this or my cameras not off but my name's Cody Rooney and I have a well-known child, no love work, finding new boy changes, as well as the state level, so I'm done for just being 23 years old, so I'm happy to be here and look forward to working with you all. Great, thank you very much. Just 23, that you said that, right? That was a long time ago for many of us. Okay, that's great. I'm happy to have such a young person on the committee. All right, so we have a public comment period. Do we have any public people here who would like to speak? There is no one in the attendees at the moment. Okay, cool, thank you. All right, so we can get right to the order of business for the day, which is to continue talking about the proposed or the actual renovation for the Jones Library. Last time we heard some about the interior renovation, we did not get to the exterior renovations at all for accessibility, so I don't know which one of you folks, welcome to all of you want to start this part of it. But take it away. Hi, everybody, thank you so much for having us. I'm Sharon Sherry, the director of the Jones Library, and I am not the one who'll be giving the presentation. Maybe we should do a round of quick introductions for the new folks in the Zoom room. Ellen, can I hand it over to you? Yes, I'm Ellen Anseloni. I'm a principal at Frangold Alexander Architects and have been working with Sharon and her crew for a number of years. David, do you want to chime in? My name is David Lightman. I'm an architect with Frangold Alexander Architects working on the Jones Library project. You want to hand it to Tim? Sure, thanks Ellen. I'll jump in. I'm Tim Alex. I'm with Collier's Project Leaders. We're the owner's project managers for the project. And Jennifer and Jess, do you want, not Jennifer, Rachel and Jess, do you want to introduce yourselves because you are the landscape folks and the star of the show today? Sure, yeah. Hi, I'm Rachel Leffler. I'm a principal at Berkshire Design Group and I'm working with Jessica Schoen on the exterior part of the landscape. Okay, great. Before you start, I just want to make sure that you all remember that one of us has a visual impairment and one of us is blind. And so if you can be as descriptive with your language as possible because you didn't send us anything that had any language, it was all pictures. So I would like to just encourage you to be pretty descriptive. Okay, sure. Thank you. And are you folks able to share screen? Do you need to share screen? Yeah, I can share screen with them. Okay, because I was not planning on staffing this, I actually have another meeting to get to. So I'm going to have to go off. And so I can make somebody the host here, though. Myra, who would you like me to make the host? Christine Restrup is here, is that okay? Sure. I need to leave at 12.30. So how about if you make Sharon share the host? You could do that. Or- You could totally do me. I just don't know if you have other business after the library. But I'm happy to take over hosting while it's the library. Yes, we have a little bit of, you can make me a host. Okay. And I guess the question is, Pamela takes our minutes. Yeah, so the meeting's being recorded. Oh, and then- We'll go back and listen to it. Oh my goodness. Okay, thank you. That's fine. Going to class. Okay. And Rachel, were you able to share screen? I just want to make sure. Yeah. Can you see that now? Okay. Thank you, everyone. Have a great meeting. Thank you, Jennifer, for your help. Thank you. What I'm showing on the screen now is a view from above of the library and how it sits on Amity Street. So today there's a sidewalk along Amity Street. And there's a main entry path that goes up to the library with steps, which are not currently accessible. There's an additional accessible walkway to a side entry on the library and two ADA spaces to the side of the library in the front. In the back of the library today, there is a asphalt path that connects the CVS parking lot from the, to the back entry of the library. And that area, the side of the library is often used that for both cars and pedestrians, and it can be a little bit confusing when you're walking or driving as there is a conflict there. So we're really excited about the accessible improvements that this project provides to the library. What I'm showing on my screen now is same view from above of our proposed condition. So the connecting from the sidewalk on Amity Street, we have another sidewalk, which is fully accessible, taking you up to the main entry of the library without steps. And you can access that from both directions, east and west on Amity Street. In addition, based upon feedback that we heard in the last meeting of this committee about visual cues and paving, we have taken approach where we're recycling some of the granite pavers that are in the front paws of the library, and actually using that as banding in the paving out front to identify areas for seating or areas where there's a change in direction of the pathways. So out front, there's that accessible walkway that connects to two ADA parking spaces that have frontage directly onto the library. So if you were parking in those spaces, you do not have to cross traffic to get into the library. You have direct access to the sidewalks into the library. So on Amity Street? Yeah. Okay. So the parking areas are within the library property on the Amity Street side, but you don't have to cross the access way behind the parking space to get into the library. So right now that the parking spaces face of the adjacent building today and in this proposal, I'm re-flipping them so they face the library. Does that make sense? So you're gonna have them front in spaces? Yeah. They're not gonna be parallel park spaces because that would be the wrong side. Correct. So they're going to be front in spaces, okay. So the active style when you open up the door the access aisle has direct access onto the sidewalk of the library. Are they sharing an access aisle? No, they're not, right? Yes, they are. So one would have to go in backwards and one would have to go in forwards? They could. Well, if they both need to use the aisle, it depends on which way the van comes out. Yeah. But Tori, explain what you were gonna say. So if you're using an accessible van then the lift only comes out on one side. So you would have to back in in order to use the access aisle. At least one of the vans if there are two accessible vans. One van would have to back in and one go in forward. Okay. So, and sharing an aisle is not, it won't always work. So. I wish Marty was here because I do think it's a problem, which is why I asked. Okay, okay. Yeah, we have a nine foot wide aisle that's currently shared. Oh, it's a nine foot, okay. Yeah. Nine feet is okay. Well, it's larger than, I believe it's larger than what the regulations say you need to make it. If it's a shared aisle. Yeah. Yeah, I believe so. Okay. I just took a training the other day and then, yeah, so. Okay. Okay, so they're going, those spaces are going to be on Amity Street, not on the current driveway. Is the current driveway gonna remain? Oh, let me clarify. The current driveway, so you turn off the Amity Street into the Jones Library property. It's gonna be widened and then the parking spaces are off of that driveway. They're not in Amity Street, that. Oh, that's what I asked you. Okay, I said are the spaces on Amity Street? Okay, so they're now, they're on that driveway? Rachel, could you zoom in to the driveway and then the Amity Street area? It might be. So small. Can you make it a little bigger? Yeah, sorry. Thank you. That's really helpful. So you drive into the drive as it is now, but the parking spaces, if you're driving into the drive, the parking spaces are on your left. And right now, if you were to drive into that driveway, they're on your right. So it's just, it's on the opposite side and it's wider. That makes sense. Okay. I guess I'm confused. It's Elise, I'm sorry. I can't see this at all. So no matter how big it is, because it's very busy. So I'm gonna ask questions about, is this parallel to the accessible walkway into the library? Because I do see like parking now, there. Is this the same area? There's like a, there's the main entrance, which has steps, and then on Amity Street, and then you go to the right and there's this long walkway into the library. Is this the area you're talking about? That's a driveway, yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's gonna change then. Right. Oh, okay. Thank you for clarifying. Yeah. So when you said the cars are not going to interfere with pedestrians. Confused about that. And this, yeah, how, now all confused. Cause when I asked if the spots were on the street, then it seemed to make sense to me. But now that I am, now that the spots are in the driveway. How the hell. That's not what pedestrians are gonna use to get into the library. Is that what you're saying? Let me try again. I'm sorry. Yeah, I would try again. I would start over. Let me start over. Yeah. I'm showing on my screen now a view of the existing driveway into the library. And as Jess mentioned, you turn into the driveway and to your right are angled spaces. That drive aisle width is not wide enough to back up and turn around from those spaces. You have to drive all the way to the back of the library and turn around to leave. So there's a roundabout at the end of that driveway where people can go all the way down and then turn around. Well, that's what it is now. Back to Amity. Yeah. That's what it's on. Yeah. I see. And so if someone's parking in these spaces when they leave their vehicle, they have to cross the access drive to get to the walk, to get into the library. Got it. All right. And now you're gonna put them on the left side so nobody has to cross the access drive. But there's no door there anymore on the side, right? There are two doors. There are... So yeah, the main entry is gonna be that central door now, but so those parking spaces connect directly to that central door now. So there's a pathway close to the library that goes across? Correct. And they're parallel to the sidewalk on the street? Exactly. Okay. So how do you create a no steps entrance Yeah. When it has steps now, I don't understand where you put... Where does that elevation come from when you fixed it? Yeah. So we're using the length of the walk across the full property to make up that difference. So it's about a 4% slope. It's less than a ramp walk. And then we have landings that are less than 2%. So we're able to take those steps and stretch them out across the full length of the site to get that flush. So the sidewalk on Amity Street, where down by the street is going to slope, is that what you're saying? So it'll have to slope from the east and from the west up toward the center. We're at this moment, we're leaving the sidewalk along Amity as it is, but we're introducing a second sidewalk closer to the library that's parallel to the Amity Street one that slopes up. Excuse me, this is Chris Brestrup. I'd like to interrupt for a minute to point out that Marty Smith is in the attendees. So whoever is able to let her in, that would be great if you could let her in. Thank you. Oh my God, I'm supposed to be able to do that. Wait, all right, I'm gonna mute myself and try to figure it out. Yeah, I can't picture this wall thing at all. I can't either. I just can't understand it in my brain how I can't picture it. And can you see this section? No, it's just not, no matter how I enlarge it, it's very pale and it's a very busy, busy page. So I'm really having to like just listen to and try to picture what you're describing. Okay. Yeah, right now all I can think of is that that main entrance with the steps that I can't use. And I just wondered how that was gonna change. So the steps are going to be eliminated and we're bringing up the sidewalk to... Rachel, you were muted. I was muted for a second, yeah. To answer your question, we are going to bring the sidewalk up to the main floor flush so there's no longer a step. And then we're gonna work back from that till we meet the sidewalk at Amity Street. And there is enough distance and enough length to make sure that we're below the 5% slope and below a 2% slope at all the landings so that we meet ADA requirements. Okay, and this is the front entrance. The main front entrance, yeah. The main front entrance. And that would the door opens out, right? Correct. When people leave. Yeah. And we'll have a door opener on, there's a low seat wall. Right in front of the plaza area to let you know that you're entering the plaza area and we will have an automatic door opener on that seat wall so that you can press it and the door will be open. Okay. Excuse me, maybe Myra could make Sharon a co-host and then Sharon could let Marnie Smith in. I'm not facile at using Zoom, but I'm sure Sharon is. I'm looking, Chris, I can't figure it out. This is terrible. Okay. I don't know how to make anybody a co-host. I don't either. If you can see, can you see? My name is Amherst, a library director, Sharon Sherry. Okay, let me look. Under panelists. Yeah, no, I know that. Okay. And there's three little dots. If you click on those three little dots. There's a telephone number. There's a telephone number here. Is that, oh, there's Marnie. Hold on, Marnie hand raised, allowed to talk. Marnie, are you able to talk? Uh-oh, I guess not. Yes. Can you hear me? You are, yay, yes. Okay. Okay, we got you in. Okay. Okay. I am so sorry. Jennifer, Moisten and Pamela, are not able. There's a telephone number 8701. Is that anybody? Here's Tracy. Okay. Allow. Okay. And I don't know who the other person is. Myron, do you want to make me co-host? I don't know if you can. I would if I knew how. Find that. Let's see. Okay. Okay. Okay, wait. Okay. This was Tori Dixon. Okay. So mute more options, invite. Mute all more options for Tori Dixon. Let's see. Got it. I'm changing you to host Tori Dixon. Okay. Okay. Yes. There we go. Okay. Oh, and now I have no controls anymore. I should have made you a co-host. Oh, well. Okay. I'm so sorry. I have no idea how to do this. I had no idea I was going to have to do this. All right. But you figured it out. That's awesome. I figured it out, sort of. Okay. Okay. All right. So can we go back? I could have done. I heard questions. I heard two people say they didn't really understand the configuration of the walkways and I will add myself to that list. So. Byron, do you want me to try and explain it to you? Yes. Okay. So what they're doing is they're mounting up the front lawn. So it's going to be like a mound. So it'll, it will come from the front door towards the street and either side. And it's a very gradual slope up to the front door. And there's a fairly large plaza in front of the front door. Does that help? Some. Yeah. So the sidewalk you're going to enter either side, either corner of the sidewalk is at the outer edges at the streets where the sidewalk is. Me like a horseshoe? It's going to be like a horseshoe. Yes. Got it. Thank you. Yes. Okay. Oh, there's pictures. Oh, that makes sense. If it's a horseshoe, I get it. Okay. It's a horseshoe. Yeah. And it also has a little leg that goes to where the new parking is going to be. Okay. Now I get it. So there's no central walkway up anymore. Well, there is. You will be able to walk straight. If you, it looks like there's some stairs, but if you want to roll up to the door, you'll go along the horseshoe. And that's how they solve this, because the short distance has stairs, but the longer distance the horseshoe has the low slope. Okay. What happened to the present side entry? Is it totally eliminated? No. And so why? It's still there and it's still accessible. We've straightened it out a little bit. Oh, I see. So there's not two accessible entries. But that's not for the public, huh? This is Ellen from Fingal d'Alexander. That entrance, that the older one, that will be for the staff only. So if there's any staff that needs an accessible entrance, they will have the staff will go in that entrance and the public will go in the one in the front that Rachel and Jess have reconfigured to be fully accessible to all the public. But I have a question. The parking lot is going to be on the driveway, is going to be close to the side of the building. Why do you limit access using that driveway, that entrance and make the people with disabilities use the longer walk? And I know a wintertime and slippery weather and things like that. Wouldn't that create unnecessary hardship for people? I think the new walkway, Rachel, you can just confirm it's probably shorter or equal length. Similar length, they're both similar lengths. And the reason for this is it's a security issue, right? All of the entrances in this new plan are accessible both in the back and the side and the front. But for security reasons, you won't use any entrance other than the front entrance. Can I ask you a question about that? Yes. Supposing you're in the library and people have to get out quickly, is there more than one accessible exit? Yes. Okay. All exits are accessible under this plan. Okay. That's good. I just wanted to, there was more than one way in and out, okay. So are people who work, they're gonna have a key card to be able to get into the other two entrances that won't be open for any other reason are available? Is that how they're gonna work? It's maybe that's a sharing question, how they end up doing that in the end. Okay, okay. All right, okay. So there will be three places on the sidewalk where you can turn into the Jones library. Is that right? For the main entry? Yeah. Yes. Now I got it. Okay. Okay. Took a while. All right. Keep going with your presentation. We also have an accessible egress on the west side of the library that ties into the sidewalk we just described out to Hanby Street. Where does that exit from? Sharon, can you get Ellen, can you clarify? It's in the youth area, but it'll be open for an emergency egress from anyone through the library can go through that exit. Okay, so it's exit only. Okay. Correct. Okay. And then the only one entrance, okay. And then on the side of the library, we're restricting vehicle access from going back to the behind the library. So today, vehicles are allowed to go along full side of the library, turn around at the back and come back out. We're restricting that vehicle access to this parking area and access aisle at the front. So beyond the parking spaces, we have a loading zone and we have a dumpster enclosure area. And that really signifies the end of where vehicles are allowed to go. Then we have about 11 foot wide walkway that goes to the back of the library. It also meets the accessible slope requirements for under 5%. It is wide enough. We've talked with DPW, it is wide enough that if they needed to get a service vehicle back in the back they could, or if there was an emergency and we needed to get an emergency vehicle in the back, they could. But it is pedestrian only day to day. Then as we turn around the back of the library and around the new addition, turn to the left, there's a reading patio area outside some shade trees. And then the rear entrance is on your left. And again, there'll be another accessible door opener outside of that, outside that plaza before you get to the door. So it's on the currently, we're showing it on the wall of the library that you can hit and the doors would open. That is all accessible. And then in addition to the north towards the CVS lot we have two walkways that are five feet wide that connect to the CVS lot. And those are fully accessible. So they're less than 5%. So we're really excited that we're able to have both the north and the south, the CVS and the Amity Street entries fully accessible in this plan configuration. And we're able to smooth out the grades on the side of the library to make that walkway fully accessible and remove vehicles from it. So I have a question. This is Tori. In the back here, all the way in the back it looks like they're seating. And is that where the, this is like the patio and then there's an accessible seating area with some other tables, correct? Right. Okay. What is, I assume that some of the area in the back is going to have a greenery of some kind either grass or shrubbery. Correct. So what did you put back there adjacent to the walkways? Currently we're proposing evergreen ground covers like caracks that look like, almost like blades of grass that they're kind of low. And then in the rain garden, we'll have some rain garden specific plants in the starker area. And then we do have a couple of shade trees that we're proposing will be keeping an existing shade tree. But we're going to be talking with the library committee in the next month about specific plant selection but the idea is to keep everything kind of low. There's good sight lines through the space. There's also good places to put snow because it's the north side of the library it's not going to melt. It's going to become an icy walkway if it isn't maintained very well. So there has to be a place that's very easy to put that snow. So if you're going to, I mean, you didn't say you were going to do this but I'm discouraging you from putting shrubbery anywhere close to the walkway because that makes it difficult to put the snow someplace. And also what happens is the roots that damage the walkways like in Kellogg Street. So that should be very carefully selected as well. Well, that's from big trees, not from little shrubs but it is the north side and it is going to be icy if it's not incredibly well-maintained and the only way to give it a shot at being really well-maintained is to make sure that it's very easy to move the snow. Good point. Great comment. I think it works with this plan too. Yeah, on the south side it will, the sun will help a lot more. So in the lawn space on the south side is that going to be lawn still? We have lawn between the sidewalk, the accessible sidewalk and Amity's sidewalk, yeah. Okay. How about the white textures in the back especially? Because I remember if somebody say wants to go to CVS or they park at CVS luck and they are going back to their car and is it going to be properly lighted? Yeah, we are thinking about lighting. We will be working with the lighting rep to prepare a photometric plan to make sure that we are providing adequate coverage in that area. But we have currently four lights proposed in the back between CVS and the back of the library and we're looking at a more historic type fixture that also is full cut off but would help keep the lightings at a safe level back there. Well, they'll also be lighting in the front entrance because right now it's quite dark outside. When you step outside at night, it's quite dark. There is an existing street light at the crosswalk but I'm hearing you say that it's dark right in front of the library. Yeah, it really is, yeah. And we will just, we will have a light by the front door to illuminate the front but we can look into if we need to add more light to make sure it's comfortable for people in the dark. Okay, that'd be great, yeah. Yeah. Oh, can I go back to the question about the entrance? If you walk out, if you're in the library and you walk out some people will come in via steps that are going to be reconfigured but there will still be steps. So where, if you're in the wheelchair or if you're a person who doesn't see where this step, how are you going to differentiate the beginning of the walkway from the steps that come right from the- Oh, Myra. Yeah. Thank you. We have, we're using the granite banding to show us different. So we have a concrete sidewalk with a granite, like a 12 inch wide granite strip flush with the walk at any intersection or in whenever we want and there's a change in direction. So the top of the stairs are delinoded by two bands side by side and then the main walkway is denoted by singular bands of granite. Is it tactile? Why did you choose that instead of the domes? We were recycling the granite that was already on site but do you think something tactile would be more helpful? Dome, oh my God, yes. Immediately. The domes are a universal signal at this point that there's a drop-off. A granite band is not, Marty, help me with this. Yeah. So when you come out of the library, if you are not going to take the stairs, you're going to turn right or left to get out to the street. Sidewalk. Okay. And I agree with you. I think there ought to be domes at the, where the sidewalk in front of the library, yeah, right where you've got the cursor. That little area needs to have domes, I believe. And I would not use the domes I'd use are the cast-iron ones. They will be much nicer than the yellow ones but the cast-iron ones also to hold up. Yep. That's true. So what you're saying is by the library, everybody's going to walk out onto a flat that is how deep is it from the library to the steps? Oh, it's a good nine feet. It's a good, it looks like about 20 feet. Okay. So there's not going to be very much danger that somebody exiting the library will get involved with the steps unless they are really not thinking at all and just they know what they're supposed to do and they walk forward. But you do need to have domes there. Granite strips are not a universal signal. No. And the handrails don't go all the way to the cross sidewalk. So... Oh, boy. I think you do need domes. I think that's a good point, Myra. I like that. Yeah, I agree. I'd like to go back to the rain garden area. I think that's a really excellent use of that space. I hate walking through there because I don't feel comfortable because when I'm walking towards the library on my right side, there's this high section and I never know whether somebody's there or not. You just don't have good eyesight. And the thing I saw with this was coming from CVS. You're going to have a nice open lower area. They're moving the dirt to the west. And this rain garden is going to provide a swale. You were talking about for getting rid of the snow. That rain garden is going to be great. They'll just push the snow off into that. The only thing in looking at this that I have a question about is I noticed that you all have an alternate. So you have this steel or metal grate over the... So there's some sections that are like little bridges that go over this... trying to explain it to Myra. So there's this lower rain garden, which is basically grasses and nice things like that. And there's sections that are like little bridges. And so they'll be above the grade of the rain garden. And I see that you've got the stamped concrete, which is a deduct alternate. Okay, and I see that the ADA rail. That's the only thing I was really looking for. It's not that height of this is not great enough to require a guard rail. So they're going to have a little two-inch rail. So Myra, when you go along, you'll hit that rail with your cane. And someone in a wheelchair can't fall off. Got it. Okay. So it's not high. I get it. The elevation, it's not high enough to require a railing, but it is high enough to get yourself in a little bit of trouble if you are not careful. Yes. Okay. And so they are putting like a little curb. They're putting a little curb. But the thing that I'm concerned about is they only show the curb over the midpoint. It needs to run all the way to where the grade, the ground meets the sidewalk. Does that make sense? Yeah, we can definitely update that. Yeah, that needs to go all the way because you don't want somebody to slip off of that or have Myra go off. No, we don't. No. Or Elisa. Yeah. Elisa is more likely to go off it than I am. Because I do use a cane from time to time. Yeah. Is that rail going to be on both sides or does it need to be on both sides? Yeah, it goes on both sides. Yeah. Okay, cool. Okay. Thank you. That was mad. I think this is fabulous. That's cool. Yeah, it's very good. Marty, the expert, and if she thinks it's fabulous, I trust her, but I just had to ask some questions about safety. And now I understand that the exit from the library is going to be a big plaza direct so that you can't fall down the stairs when you walk out. Oh, definitely. You've got 20 feet of paving, at least. Cool. All right. This is great. I'm glad I got clarified because I was confused also. Okay. And it's hard to explain. Yeah, it is. I have an experience. I mean, when I go shopping at Big Y, you know, I'm by the sidewalk and I have to come down, although the slope is very, very little, and go to the walkways, mark walkways. And sometimes traffic moves so fast on that road and I'm always afraid to come down that little slope, which is very little, you know, and then not be able to stop myself and smash into the cars passing. So, you know, I'm glad at least it's a long way and that will give us enough time to put our brakes on and make a left or a right turn to get on the sidewalk. Yeah. No, that's the sidewalk is a really, that's a really good solution. Yes, the patio out front is 10 feet and it's pavers. And then you have 12 feet of concrete walk before you would hit the, I guess, tariff strips. Question about the pavers. What is the surface of the pavers? Exactly. Currently, it is a pre-cast concrete paver. So it has some texture on it so you want it slipped in a wet condition, but the joints are minimized to be about a 16th of an inch between them. And then joints will be filled with polymeric sand so that it's flush with the top of the paver. Okay, so there aren't going to be any, like, you know how they build cracks into expansion cracks, expansion joints into concrete sidewalks or concrete? Those, I mean, I understand that they have to be there and they're very important, but if you're using a cane, those are a real hazard because your cane gets stuck in them and you're still going and the cane is stuck. So you end up sort of getting abdominal cane connection. So I was just asking about the surface, as long as you're not doing something like cobblestones, or something like that, and it's going to be relatively smooth, but textured, it can be, but not with deep grooves. It's great. Okay. It's great. Whatever you want to do that looks great as long as there aren't really deep grooves, but the ice would go in them and you wouldn't want them anyway, so. Yeah, yeah. And that's good feedback about expansion joints. We'll try to minimize those where we can. Well, I mean, they have to be there or the sidewalk buckles. So I mean, I understand that, but it's always been an interesting, whenever there are good expansion joints, you know, you have to be a little bit careful. You can't just zoom down the sidewalk. Okay. Any other questions about the outside? Oh, did you not finish the outside? I have a question. Is there going to be any signage to let people know that there is accessible parking on the driveway? You know, next to the library and is there going to be any kind of signage letting people know that the accessible sidewalks are to the side if you're coming from, say across the street from Amherst Cinema like to use the accessible sidewalks that way. The parking spaces will be signed as accessible van spaces. Not until you get in the driveway though, right? Right. Okay. Are you recommending additional signage for both of these items? Yeah, because I would, because people may not, people may think they have to park across the street in order to have an accessible space. Oh, that's a good point. We can look at that. And I assume there's going to be a sign on the accessible, on the entrance to show that it is a completely accessible entrance, right? That'll be visible from the sidewalk, from the street sidewalk. Ellen, do you want to speak to that? Or are people just supposed to assume that it is? I don't know what the law requires for that. We can put up some signage. I don't know if there's a requirement. I'm just, I just thought of that that. We can explore that signage options just to make it clear where the accessible paths are to the entrance, for sure. Especially since people are used to it being different. Correct. Okay. Okay. Okay, that's good. Any other questions or presentation on the outside? I don't even know if we finished the inside, but is there any more questions about the outside? Say, for example, somebody couldn't find those two places are taken. And they end up parking across the street. How would they safely have access to the library? Is there a certain path? Because if they go straight, they will run into the steps and then they will just go right or left to get to the accessible pathway. Well, you'd have to do it when you hit the regular street sidewalk. You'd have to turn right or left instead of going straight. Right? Yeah, that's correct. You'd have to go right or left. But you would see it. I mean, if you were using a chair, you would see the steps and you would see that there are other sidewalks. They're not that far apart. Isn't that right? Yeah, I mean, that's why I say if there's a sign. Yep. Even if you put the sign at the steps, you know, like so that people will know you turn left or right. Right, that's right. Yeah, and then there is a walkway that they're going to put on Amity Street that will link you, get you to the sidewalk, which is marked and everything and it's safe because traffic is pretty heavy on that road. Well, there's already a sidewalk there and it's raised. If you're parking in the handicapped spaces across the street. Yes. Then you're going to take that raised, she's got the Google map. I see. You take that raised pathway across. I see. Right there. I see. Right. Any blinking lights or anything? Or will people just? There's already blinking lights. Oh, there's, okay. Yeah, yeah. All right. Okay. So how does the door, if you're taking one of the sidewalks on the right or the left and then there's steps in the middle of that, how does the, how do you get in the door? How does the door open? There's not steps there. So you're going. I thought there were steps. Up the horse show. Well, you're going, if you're not taking the steps, you're going, you're going to use the horse shoe and then you're going to turn and towards the building. But remember the front door. The steps are toward the street from where you end, where you end up, Elise. Yeah. So you're going to end up right on the, you're going to end up on the flat side directly into the building. If you take the walkway, the steps won't have anything to do with you. They'll already be closer to the street than you are. I understand that. I'm just saying that. How does the door, does the door open out? So that it has to, you can use the walkway. Okay. I'm trying to understand and picturing my head because I can't see this. Yeah. So there's about seven feet. Once the door is fully open, there's about seven feet of patio area that are between you and the door. And then there's 12 feet behind you. So there's room to maneuver and there's space on the sides too that there are people moving in and out. So there's space to move around the door too. But you won't be, the door won't be chasing you open. You know what I mean? I see. There won't be a traffic jam. Okay. No, Elise, the front door currently sits in an alcove. You probably don't know that, but it sits in an alcove that's about 12 feet from the face of the building. It's pretty deep. And that's going to be a patio. Okay. Okay. I'm just, yeah. Okay. Thank you for being patient with that for me. Thank you. Yeah, no, it's hard. If you can't see it, it's hard to read it. I can't picture it. And I never use that. I never use that. Yeah. You don't use that entrance. In fact, most people don't use that entrance. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. I just, I just noticed the book drop and that will be at accessible height. And the book drop is off of the front door deck to the left. Look at the welcome. There are two book drops. One is up by the sidewalk on Amity Street and it's fully accessible. And then there's a new one being introduced on the wall of the library to the right of the main entry. And that'll be fully accessible as well. Okay. So this one is remaining there then. Okay. Okay. Any other questions? All right. This is great. I'm really impressed actually, now that I understand what you did, I'm really impressed with how you worked out the front. That's, it's pretty good. I mean, it sounds like it's gonna be very, very nice and very usable. Do we need Sharon? Do you think that when you're further along with your interior decision-making that it would be good for us to connect with you again? I don't think I can comment on that. I don't have, what am I trying to say? I don't have authorization for the architects and folks to attend any more meetings right now. But certainly I'm available to come and I can meet with you and walk you through things. We are, we have finished design development. We're gonna get another cost estimate at the end of this month. And then we'll move into construction documents. And then there will be another cost estimate in November. And then there has to be another town council vote. So we're not, we're not out of the woods yet. So that's where we are for right now. Okay. So the interior decision-making that has to do with the actual appearance, the actual visual cues and stuff in the library will be made at what point? I'm not sure I know how to answer that question. I think placement of things has been decided. Actual furnishings and stuff. I don't, like more specifics, Ellen, help me out. Yeah, no, I'll help you. Yes, that hasn't been decided yet. We're still in the process. We met with Sharon and her team, reviewed the needs, the needs of the library patrons. So we're still in the process of selecting furniture, but there will be a layout that we will be able to share with Sharon and she can share it with you or we can come to a meeting. Okay. But yeah, that would not quite be there yet. Because we talked last time, we talked last time about wayfinding inside the library. And lighting. Yeah, wayfinding and lighting that has a lot to do with accessibility because if there are broad open spaces without any demarcations of any kind, they're very difficult. Yeah, correct. So, and we talked last time about the staircase and how that, you know, the central staircase inside is going to be delineated. And so there is stuff, I think that we still need to talk about. So I don't know when that would be, but if you could Sharon keep in touch with Pamela to make sure that she knows where you are before decisions get made that would make it difficult to use the library even if it is allegedly accessible. Very good. Thank you. I have a question about the inside as well. If and when you have information about ventilation and filtration systems for the inside, if you could share that with us, that'd be great as well. Thank you. Okay. And I assume that all the carpets are going to be off-gast, off-site and stuff. Did they do that anymore? I mean, how did they do that with carpets and things? It's the whole building gets flushed as it's called. Okay. No, they don't get off-gassed somewhere else but the building will get flushed. So that means it will be, everything will be installed but occupancy won't be allowed. Got it. So the time that it takes will be built in. Okay, cool. All right. I just have a comment about this stairway, the main stairway that, so it's only going to have a railing on one side, is that correct the way it's, or are you going to have railings on both sides? Railings on both sides, railings and guard rails on both sides. Okay. That's good. Okay. Thank you so much for coming twice. You only get a chance to do it right once. So I appreciate that you gave us the extra time and attention because I think that this group has given you a couple ideas. And I thank you for coming twice. And thank you for all of your comments. They have been really helpful to us. Thanks so much. Very helpful. Okay. Have a great afternoon. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, we have one more matter. Which has to do with, we had agreed in principle a long time ago to go to Northampton for the July meeting for the viewing of the Crip Camp moving. And that was before Judy Human died. And then we were going to, I think their plan was for us to talk about whether there were any disability issues that various communities could work together on. And so I want to make sure people still want to do it. It's July 11th. And we sort of did agree to it, but we need to make sure, and now it's only two months away. So what are people thinking about it? It would be later in the afternoon. It's the same day we would normally meet actually, but I think they want it three o'clock in the afternoon. And sorry, this is a movie screening in Northampton. Is that right? Yeah, at the senior center run by the Disability Commission in Northampton. They invited a bunch of other, I don't know how many other towns they invited, actually. Myra, I have Wednesday, July 12th at 2 p.m. for that. Oh, you do? Yeah, that's what I've got as a date. I'm not sure that's right. I'm not sure that I'm right either now. Okay, well, it's one of those days. July 11 or July 12, we have to find out. We'll have to make a contact with them. But how are people feeling about our participation and having that be our July meeting? Because if we're not gonna do it, if we are going to do it, we need to commit to doing it and we need to do it. Myra, my only concern is if we watch the movie there and then stay for comments, we're talking of close to three hours and it's a big chunk from our times. So is there any way we can watch the movie before going there and participate for the comment time? It's an interesting question. Yeah. I can find out. That would be great. Okay. Other than that, well, how do people feel about going there to view the movie, which I hope they would use with audio description. Who knows if they will. And would be odd if they didn't at a disability meeting. So how do people feel about it either with the movie or without? We need, it's time to make a commitment or bow out. I can go and I can drive. Cool. Thank you. All right, Marty can go and drive. Elise. I guess so. I'm just not clear on what we're going to watch the movie and then there's going to be a talk afterwards. Yeah, I think they want to talk about what kinds of collaborations we might be able to engage in. Okay. Yeah, I could go. But I would need to have my guide dog. With me. Is that possible? Or, you know what? If it's at the senior center, I can get myself there. Well, I can, you can be in my car. Okay. That'll be a full car with you and your dog, but that's great. I'll take my run you. I don't want to take this away from someone else. If they need it. How do you feel about it? Are you able? I don't know what your schedule is actually. We don't know. Sorry, did you say my name? Yes. Yes. I can go. Cool. Okay. Do you need transportation? I don't know. I'll be able to make it. Okay. Cody, would you be able to go? Or would you be interested? Oh, yeah, I can be there. You can be there? Yeah. And do you need transportation? You like the van? I can book the PBTA. Okay. All right. So you would do the PBTA. In Tory, you're going to be gone by then from us, which is very sad. Everybody knows that, right? Tory's with us through June 30th. And Paul will make another appointment of the other person that we interviewed to begin on July 1st. And, Saren, you know who that person is. Okay. Saren, you would or would not go, you would not go if we have to watch the movie? Well, I have to find somebody that will drive me there. And I think it will be a little bit too much asking for like four hours when you put the distance going back and forth. But I might be able to join if I can watch the movie from my home and do my best to participate in discussion section. Well, maybe we can ask them if they would be willing to hybrid it with a Zoom participation for people who came in there. Oh, that would be perfect. Okay. I don't know if they have the capability of doing that, but or at least doing it well. It's not easy to do it well. Okay. All right. So whether it's July 11th or July 12th, whether it's three o'clock or two o'clock, we're willing to do it, correct? Yes. Okay. Yeah. Okay. All right. Are there any other items of business that we need to take up? I don't even know what time it is. It's 12.40. Oh, it's 12.40 only? Yeah. Oh, that's shocking. Okay. Are there any other pieces of business that we need to take up that we hadn't anticipated? We need minutes. Did people read the minutes? Oh, yeah. Okay. Do I have a motion about, oh, I sent Pamela a note with a couple corrections that were just housekeeping corrections. So if I get a motion to approve, I guess I, should we do them in a group? Does anyone have any real concerns about either of them? There was April 13th. Just with my last name, that was not a big deal. Oh. Left. What did she do? My last name was on. You don't have a, your last name isn't there? The beginning of my last name was there in one paragraph. It's not a huge deal. Well, you should have your whole last name there. All right. So if you want, Tori, would you be willing to just quickly send her an email that I didn't notice? And so that's not one of my housekeeping amendments because I didn't notice it. Um, do I have a motion about the April, March 14th and April 11 minutes with housekeeping corrections? Sure. Motion to approve. Sure, I'll make a motion. Motion to approve. Okay. So both of you made the motion with one of you second instead. Sure, I'll second. You're so agreeable. Okay, so we'll say Tori made the amendment on the motion and we'll say Marty seconded it. Okay. So we need a vote of the people, Ian and Cody, we don't expect you to vote because you weren't there. So you can't really say whether anything is accurate because you weren't there. So we'll leave you out for the time being. But okay. So Tori, how do you vote? No, is this for both of them or for one? I think the motion that you made was for both of them. Oh, okay. Why do you have a problem with one of them? Should we split them? Well, I wasn't there for March. I wasn't there for March, but that's okay. Okay, well, we can say that, yeah, we can indicate that however they want. Okay, so you approve for April. Marty, how do you vote? I approve. Okay, Elise? I approve. Sarin? I approve. And I approve. So that's unanimous. So now we can officially have minutes. If you have any housekeeping changes, you should send them. I don't think there was anything that was in there that was inaccurate. There were just some, initials were wrong and DACC instead of DACC and stuff like that. I think those are just housekeeping changes. Exactly. All right. Okay, so our next meeting, which is the only one we have before the North Hampton one would be on, what would it be on June 13th? Is that right? Yes, June 13th. Okay, so this time there's five weeks between the meetings. And we have to have virtual cupcakes for Tori because she won't be coming back. But we'll have virtual cupcakes for Tori to thank her for her service. And I think I can take a motion to adjourn. I move we adjourn. That was Elise? Yes. Okay. Sorry, I should have said Elise. No, it's fine. It's fine. And do we have a second on that one? I'll second it. This is Ian. Yay, okay. Your first official movie. And big welcome to new members. Thank you. Yeah, you missed that part at the beginning. Yeah. Okay. All right. And Marty, I'm sorry you were locked out for so long. I really had no idea how to fix it. I really had no idea how to fix it. That's okay. Tori, do you know how to end this meeting as a host? Yes. Yes, I do. Excellent. I think there's some things I need to learn pretty quick. Okay. All right. Thank you all. I think the meeting with the library was very helpful. I think they did get something out of it. They listened to what we say too. So that's important. Yeah. And you know, architects, I'll just throw this in, but when I was on the building committee for the high school and I've been on several building committees and quite frequently architects make a presentation that has written, it has a written component to it, you know, that explains why they are doing things. And if they made that at some point to somebody they didn't send it to us. So they don't, which I think from the accessibility point of view they didn't handle it the way that I wish they could have, which is why I said you didn't send us anything and writing, you only sent us pictures because some people don't like the parts that are in writing and some people can't only use the parts that are in pictures. So, but I think they, once I got the horseshoe concept, I was good. All right, we are adjourned. All right, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Ending. Bye. Bye.