 Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening to all our viewers from around the world. Welcome back to the Stanford Global Energy Dialogue We have a terrific dialogue for you today But before we move on we want to learn about you So the first quiz and the poll is how many Stanford Global Energy Dialogues have you participated in and You have including this one and you have 10 seconds to respond Okay So most of you there's the first one well, we hope you join us again two weeks from now But we'll come to that later on So just to get us started now Let me just say some offer some opening remarks. We're living in extraordinary times Since the beginning of 2020 the world has changed dramatically We are not only in a new phase of the global pandemic But we also find ourselves in a continuing economic crisis There is intense focus on developing a vaccine and make it widely available which Optimistically could happen sometime early to mid 2021 Until then most people will stay and work from home and only essential businesses will be open This underscores the importance of electric Utilities that deliver energy to our homes and small businesses In addition to the demands of the current pandemic This industry is going through some Unprecedented long-term changes as well in customer choice in the electric grid So to understand this moment in history to the lens of the energy industry We have two very special guests joining us for today's dialogue Paula Gold Williams is the president and CEO of CPS energy The largest municipally owned energy company United States based in San Antonio, Texas CPS is involved in power generation and also serves more than 840,000 retail electric customers and 350,000 national gas customers Thousands of miles away in Sydney, Australia is the headquarters of origin energy One of the largest energy retailers in Australia which serves about 4.2 million customers In addition to energy delivery origin has businesses and electricity generation and in the national gas supply chain We have with us Frank Calabria the CEO of origin energy Despite the geographical separation and the differences in Governance and customer choice that CPS and origin are individually facing There are some remarkable similarities between them, which we will explore and highlight in this dialogue After my discussion with Paul and Frank, we will have a Stanford PhD student Shaban Powell will ask a few questions Thereafter we'll open it up for a question and answer with you all the audience So before we start, let's get it set up for the next quiz and poll Since the beginning of COVID-19 2020 lockdown Which country has seen the largest percentage reduction in electricity demand? USA, Italy, China, India, Germany You have 10 seconds. Okay Let's see if you can get the results 31% said USA The answer is not USA. It is Italy According to recent report from the International Energy Agency, the largest percentage reduction Has been in Italy at about 28%. Next is India at about 23% reduction Alright, so let's get started. Paul and Frank, thank you so much for joining us today Before we discuss the long-term trends in the energy sector, let me start with the impacts of COVID-19 New York communities, give us a snapshot of what you're seeing. Let me start with Paul and then we'll go back to Frank Rune, I want to quickly answer that question, but I want to thank you for the invitation and I'm excited to be here and talking to Stanford students and supporters and anyone who is interested in the topics that we have now I've been in this industry for going on 16 years when I entered it I couldn't force people to talk about energy And we are excited to have more people, more students joining us All that said, the discussions that you had around the Disruption in the industry that is extremely exciting. The evolution that we're going through was already a big deal before COVID And then to watch a global pandemic move as fast as it did, the velocity of it And and the extent of it has been tremendous, especially in the United States in Texas and in San Antonio We were one of the first places to support People who had been originally affected on boats ships And so we have a large medical Network here and we have a huge military Medical complex here. And so it is natural that our community Has been reaching out trying to be the best to try to heal people from this Turbo pandemic for a utility We are an essential service though No matter what the orders were whether it was a stay home work safe, which was the name of our local order Um The utility company needs to continue to Come to work and figure out ways to work differently And we're 24 7365 business. We generate the power Transmit it send it through distribution lines and we actually serve customers We sell them the majority of our power to The San Antonio community, but we also sell about 15 percent of our capacity out in the Urquat market So the stability that we Focus on is not just for San Antonio, but it's also broadly for the state of Texas It has been tremendous We have had You know a resurgence and a relapse we did a lot to To flatten the curve per se But community spread and the controversy around wearing masks Is is playing out locally like it is across the globe. Um, as you can see I'm wearing mine. I wear mine every day. We think it's the absolute critical nature of doing business We we practice physical distancing. We don't talk about social distancing as much as we used to it's physical distancing Safe work practices, but staying socially connected and the ability for us to still connect and still talk about Today and the future is critical Um, I liken our journey to the old eds video if everybody if anyone he wants to look at it pull up eds And it's the image of rebuilding the plane while while flying it and that's what it feels like more than ever in this industry We are having to take our everyday processes and activities our communication Approaches which was very much dependent on in-person exchanges and move move them to digital platforms We have to be careful on how we dispatch Employees from their own home and not come through our service locations We have to again even push that technology all the way down to our skilled craft and union employees as much as we can The last thing I'll say is we as we entered this process. We broke our company up into Three groups. We have a blue team the blue team Primarily are the ones that work in the field. There's our skilled and craft employees They have to be out in the field because that's where the work is and so it's it's very Customized work things that they do they go assign to projects and they're out every day because they're out every day I'm out every day. I go come into the office every day. I went to a construction site today our senior team Goes in and out to try to to be supportive of our field employees in blue We have a white team and the white team is the team that comes into the office on a regular basis They normally have to be here because of the security around our energy systems We have to make sure we're behind firewalls nirc regulatory activities our national our national grid and requirements and so they're they're still coming in and We really had we worked it out in terms of people doing what they felt was comfortable on top of the need And so we negotiated that pretty much employed by employee basis And then our last team is our orange team and our orange team are the the people who now work predominantly from home We have about 3100 employees and about 1200 of our employees work from home routinely and so They're using digital technologies. It was a huge deal. I think we thought we couldn't do it COVID said you had to do it and we we established a secure connections technology training All those things in short order to get people to be able to work from home And so, you know, COVID is the thing and without You know the the vaccine being right in front of us. We're going to have to keep up our vigilance And so we spend a ton of time telling our talking to our employees about Don't Don't put your guard down be careful when you're not even at work when you're when you're socializing Again mass even in your private lives are extremely important to keep you and your family members safe. So that's kind of the the On the ground perspective of have coped has been affecting us a room Thanks Paula. We already have a question for you But we're going to hold off on that and we're going to move to Frank and Frank Tell us what you're seeing. How is the COVID-19 lockdown affected you in in in your neighborhood in Sydney, Australia? Yes, thanks Arun and thanks Paula or there's some really similar parallels To Australia that what you've experienced and what you've gone through it all starts for us with protecting the safety and well-being of our people and that Really starts with how we continued to deliver reliable electricity natural gas and we also have a An LPG a propane business where we deliver gas to customers in regional areas And it all started with really about how do we do that safely? And I'm very pleased to say that we've been able to continue the reliability of supply And that was our first and foremost objective and you've articulated well Paula how that how that occurred just Probably one difference for people that are not familiar with the origin business may be relative to the cps business is that We have a retail business. We have a power generation business We have a natural gas production business and and a wholesale gas and trading and also a liquefied LPG business What we don't have is the transmission lines. So one of the challenges you've encountered about getting onto the transmission lines We haven't had to encounter we moved 4,000 of our 5,000 People to work remotely within a matter of days including all our customer facing people so we really were putting in protections and processes and protocols to ensure our power station and gas field and delivery workers for the LPG business could continue to do that And I've been very pleased to see Then be able to continue to do reliable supply of power The second thing really was that the the next thing really came about was the really how do you support your customers and We we understood you very much understood that in the first lockdown in Australia that Small to medium enterprise businesses particularly in travel food and services We're undergoing tremendous change a lot of people were working from home And so the industry worked together in accordance with the statement of expectations But origin moved early to make sure there were no disconnections There was no default listing and there was a range of support in place I have to say at this point in time it it's worth noting that the australian government's response was very swift both on a public health and an economic basis there was A lot of measures put in place including what you would what we call job keeper or subsidized wage program And so there's been a lot of economic stimulus and support and and that's continued to I think cushion some of the blow early in this country And we all know that that economic stimulus won't be there forever And as a result we're now setting up to how we continue to provide that support For those not familiar with the sort of economic impact in Australia GDP has contracted to be I think by about 0.3 percent in march I think we're a country known for having not been in recession for something like 27 years, but it's contracted in march Our unemployment in the march quarter Reached or june. I think reached about seven percent and I think it's expected expected that will go to about 10 percent Or towards 10 by by december From a net from an energy Demand perspective to put in the context when the first lockdown occurred Some of those smaller medium enterprise businesses demand went down as high as as low as sorry 15 20 percent lower It was being offset by people working from home about five percent higher and as people have returned to work and a bit more than the The net impact I think at that stage may have been Somewhere about 10 percent maybe 10 to 15 percent down when you combine the two That's reduced to be closer to About five percent down. In fact, it's probably recovered into our winter pretty strongly And just for information for everyone on the line that may not live in australia that we've obviously feared Pretty well from a health perspective, but we've just had Our second most popular state victoria go into a stage four lockdown. So I think we're all living with the fact that there will be What I would describe as An ongoing Uncertain and a responsive environment that we need to continue to support our customers and people through I would say the ways of working paula to reinforce your point I think what's a man what's occurred is amazing and I think We're going to continue to see some of those things preserved into the future beyond beyond covet 19 Well, thank you to both of you for providing really the lifeline For all the people that you're serving and you know at this point we'll come to the resilience and reliability issues Today we're hearing in fact Because of hurricane isas and the east coast about two point More than two million customers have lost power in new jersey new york area. So this is You know, you you take covet 19 and you add this on top and this is a huge Of course challenge for all of you trying to deliver reliable energy So you you have this covet 19 going on and then you have the long-term issue So luckily we'll have a vaccine and we'll get back to some kind of a new normal next year And we have this long-term changes that are going on the energy transition We are seeing coal fired power plants are being closed or becoming stranded assets Solar and wind are becoming the cheapest way to produce electricity and are being adopted in the grid The grid was never designed for fluctuating generation and yet we are now talking about 50 to 80% renewables rooftop solar is getting cheaper and solar lithium ion batteries Which will introduce two-way power flow in the distribution network The distribution grid was never designed for two-way power flow Electric vehicles are getting cheaper and EV charging could become a large load that could stress the grid And you need to go through this transition While maintaining reliability and resilience in the energy delivery So could you tell what are the changes you're facing in your community and how is it going? Let me start with frank and we'll go to Paula Yes, thanks Arun. Um G the energy transition has a number of dimensions in Australia and once again just by way of background As you know, Australia is a resource Has a resource abundance in this country whether that's across coal iron or gas. It's been one of the key strengths of our economy over multiple decades And so the background the background from where we come from is that the first key Transition underway in our market is that We're moving from coal to renewables. We're not moving coal to gas to renewables. We're moving from It's a significant transition from coal to renewables Our coal plant is generally aged So there's not been a lot any new coal plant built for many many years in Australia But that's been our key challenge and what we're seeing really is over the last five years That first aspect of that transition is that we've got 4,000 megawatts of coal that have come in we've had in the last five years 7,000 megawatts of capacity of solar and wind come into the market The solar and wind has really come in initially through renewable energy target support That's forced coal out pretty rapidly at times And our key issue associated with that is probably twofold firstly It um, it it caused in one particular state Quite a bit of system security issue because they were moving from not having enough from having a lot of synchronous generation To not having enough and we don't have an interconnected system to other countries or other states here It's one sort of long stringy Transmission system. So that's been initially it was a security issue In one particular state south australia We then had spikes in prices not surprisingly when you get big capacity Coming out of the market rapidly Even though that supplies come in we've seen that And really what we're now faced with associated with that is that the ongoing investment in renewables is continuing in a large scale We have both solar and wind And as they continue to come in our new challenge is not the influx of more renewables That trend will be inexorable over time. It's actually The market signal and support and policy environment for what we call firming capacity be invested alongside it And in australia, we'll need firming capacity across a range of technologies because we will not only need instantaneous response in seconds and minutes to respond to fluctuations in supply We will need it for hours through the course of the day as you can imagine sun solar Particularly coming in and out of the day And we also have not surprising. I think people would know we have very hot summers So we need also duration of that firming capacity when we have peak air conditioning load over summer And so we're very much going to see the Combination of firming capacity. That's the key challenge is now reliability and that will be a suite of technologies extending from batteries to pumped hydro to hydro to gas fired generation technologies and we'll need all of those to work in unison So that's probably our key thing on reliability So that really is that coal what I would call the coal to renewables transition and people might ask why is that different to the states We don't have the benefit of very very low gas prices that's making it a natural transition and so a lot of the Existing coal plant has a lower short run marginal cost now Obviously, we're in a different world in terms of commodity price for gas But it means we're jumping straight from one to the other and that trend will continue The second key transition that's underway and people may or may not be aware is that Australia has one of the highest per capita penetration of rooftop solar in the world It was initially stimulated 10 plus years ago by Subsidies it was generally an economic decision for for consumers more so than what I would call a sort of a Renewable and climate decision at that point although that was a supplementary effect So we have 2.5 million Australians with rooftop solar and And that has grown it's only accelerated as costs have come down even through the COVID environment We're just not seeing that stop at all And so we have a transition that has both what I would say The centralized and decentralized or distributed energy really rapidly changing And that will in fact mean that we've got to combine those two over time You did raise a run storage and EVs It's worth noting that Australia has is very low in penetration on an electric vehicles relative to other markets There's not Been either city state or government support for their adoption or acceleration in the market But we do definitely see that as storage costs come down Including the cost and functionality and as you know performance of EVs that that will increasingly I believe play into that distributed energy Transition I probably just raised that the last the one and I'm sure we'll cover this later But the last transition is really what digital is doing to both our core businesses today But also what that will do to future business models But you know those are the three dimensions and and and certainly we're seeing the pace of that not Are not slow down and so, you know, we have to really balance in our view security reliability The reduction in emissions and and affordability and we've seen those get out of balance over the course of this journey And that remains a challenge as we go forward Right Frank, so let me ask paul of the same question energy transition big changes long-term changes How is that going with you? Um, yeah Um, there are a lot of similarities with what frank has described which I think is It always amazes me. I've I've been able to travel and talk to you know leaders in different countries and and like the energy The energy journey is for the globe um, I will say for san antonio, I do believe in the concept of regionalism though because where you are and where you start from Changes your journey along the way um to tie in the earlier question in this one for san antonio, it's it's kind of a complex issue we have served this community for 160 years And we're we've been owned by the city of san antonio for 77 years. So we're municipally oriented But the demographics in our community are challenging We were recognized as Kind of the the one of the lowest lowest economic Income levels for the average citizen in in the united states and so of a large city And so we have that we have some educational challenges So you already know right away that you have certain customers who are very price sensitive And so um, it's it's great to think about getting to you know, the other side of kovid But we had to for example, saw what we were doing and create a whole outbound call Situation where we now call customers to tell them about our programs And we we have some funds. We don't have a rainy day fund But we have some funds that we are able to help customers Get their bills paid But we also have our employees call them and tell them about the food Banks and the different united way programs and different different types of assistance some of our Customers don't have computers. There's the digital divide issue in san antonio So our energy advisors those are the people who are on the phone They will look up websites and names and information to try to give people that that Uh information that they need and try to help them direct them where they are So this this period between now and sometime in 2021 is a very concerning um one we have suspended disconnects we have Uh, we we will take off late fees if we can get people on a payment plan And we will constantly work with them through this period Now in a very similar to what frank says we have we have six guiding pillars Um that we utilize to serve customers today and help us make the right decisions going forward as we're going through the transition So their safety, security, reliability, resilience affordability and Environmental responsibility and as frank says it's hard to keep that stuff all balanced But we know we have to do it as we make this transition Um, we are diversified. We were years ago completely 100 ass company Today, we do have coal. We did close two huge coal units in 2018 But we built one of the last coal units um in 2010 and brought it online in 2010 So we have two now we use ultra well So for coal we use scrubbers And environmental controls to reduce the emissions on those units and they they they do fairly well in the ERCOT market And so they're still they're still producing and they're very efficient. But we also have gas. We have nuclear We have a large amount of wind and we have um an increasingly large amount of solar So we have about a thousand megawatts of our almost 7,000 megawatts is wind and about 600 megawatts is Um solar and and direct frank's point. Those are utility scale um megawatts We also have increasingly More distributed solar on our systems. We've had a program since 2008 We have a huge energy efficiency and conservation program. I know we'll talk about that a bit later And so we have embraced this transition for 20 years. We've we've we brought in renewables in our portfolio The transition is complicated. I mean even when I'm talking to people who do say you got to get out You got to get out of coal tomorrow And I and I believe that our goal is to absolutely get to Net zero emissions and ultimately net emissions. It's not that that we are Disagreeing with the objective the complexity is the velocity of change And whether or not you can optimize technology again without making it shockingly financially difficult for customers in the transition and so You know, we are we are trying to figure out how to balance it how to make it work and how to constantly put in um you know more more investment in our systems we went AMI Over 10 years ago digitization started to come into our systems. We're becoming more efficient And and our operating systems are coming more efficient. We continually look for ways to put in um New low to non-emitting sources. We just released last week this what we call the flex power bundle Our big strategy is called the flexible path strategy What it means is don't buy into the old solutions Keep looking across the globe for new solutions and be ready for those Think global apply local so the flexible path underneath it. We have the flex power bundle that was released And we have about 600 megawatts now solar The general shape of the off the request is we want to get up to 900 megawatts more of solar um We believe that the current lithium Ion battery is proven and very effective But and and it really responds well with renewal renewables Very promptly as frank says, but you got to rack them and stack them and utilities Utilities have to run them and deep cycle them and and so all of the optimization that people typically tout With batteries We will use a battery probably like three times faster than what you know what they're what they're told Will last for life And so for us the economics is a lot harder because you almost have to take that Initial installation and multiply it by two or three that makes it a whole lot more difficult to get the same level of performance Over the life of what you would traditionally do in a fossil unit. So it's about it's it's a much lower Target on this is up to 50 But but we would be open depending on what advances in lithium ion are and then again as frank says The firming capacity is the key We are starting to see more people knock on our doors with solutions that are non-emitting We feel like it has to beat gas um, you know for us gas is abundant across the state of texas and then we have We just have a huge source of it and the economies between solar and gas have been so So beneficial to affordability for customers. We need the performance and the reliability to be as good as gas We need the pricing to be around gas but but but we actually think it's coming just like solar prices came down We see new prices coming down on new technology. So those transitions We are constantly evaluating. We're trying to attract people to come into san antonio and bring us those solutions We can do it within our service territory, but we could do a lot of things anywhere inside of the state of texas just about So um, so that's the deal. I mean, we just gotta we got to work on the velocity It's not like snapping your fingers. It doesn't happen. It's a it's a very thoughtful process very complicated high stakes very expensive I mean the big difference is listening to you the big difference that i'm Sort of gauging is that in in franc's case You're going from cold to renewables without going through gas because that's where you are whereas here Gas becomes the firming capacity For solar and and wind and we have texas here a lot of wind as well So, you know, let's just step back a little bit um, covet 19 giant global experiment going on um It's forcing all of you to do things all of us to do things that we would never would have done otherwise Coming out of this, you know, this is a global crisis and you know, we all know we don't want to waste a crisis So if you were to take this moment now And ask for one or two things to set yourself for the future What would you be asking for? What I mean if you're bored or your regulators or anyone People who who you know, you want to institute and you got to go and ask what would you be asking for paula? Nobody ever wants to give me anything. I don't know how to answer that It's always when you work for the energy company, it's always what can you do because you got to do something better So you've totally stunned me with this one Here's what I would say. I mean um, the little bit I know about uh, what frank has talked about, um, you know, they're federal their federal strategy um, and and nothing's perfect, but their federal strategy has been focused and it's gone after Incenting right and sending renewables um And and and that matters um our energy federal policy You know has been updated in a really long time And if I could do something tomorrow it would be to create alignment across the federal state and local levels relative to the policy decisions and and That we could align the the uh funding mechanisms You know a lot of folks say if you set the policy It can drive the funding mechanisms It could but I think you just have to be thoughtful about whether or not you're you're doing them constructively or not Now some people say well just just change and mandate solar tomorrow The problem with solar only solutions is is one of physics. It's Yes, they're cheaper per megawatt or kilowatt hour delivered But they're weather dependent and they're time of Time of day dependent And so mandating things without creating the connection to the funding policy and really thinking through How do you want to transition people off of that? I mean, I'm basically saying if I can wave a magic wand To create alignment and synergy Between that policy and the economics and funding piece. I think I mean that would be critical I see it seems to me that there is more of that And on the things that frank is experiencing and for us I see Um splashes of it, but I definitely think that if we want to make huge Advances trying to do that together matters Local regional federal coordination. That's what you would like to see frank Yeah, just firstly the background and and and to to build on some of your comments, but also um um and also paul paul is is firstly I think covet's doing something. I think it's accelerating prior trends Even more so I think it's accelerating the transition in a number of respects. Firstly With a weakening and demand, um, I think it's accentuating therefore What we know is the duck curve in the middle of the day Therefore it's accelerating the challenge for coal to operate and therefore The price formation is changing and as a result of that. I believe it's going to bring those trends on faster And I think that's the first. I think the second is that From a technology point of view The digital adoption by our customers The ways of working and use of technology. I think more broadly. I think is is has just accelerated I think what would have taken months and years into weeks And months and so I I think that's the first backdrop comment I'd make Arun and is this whole acceleration of that transition for a variety of reasons And for that matter, I think therefore it's actually bringing I think into stark alike What are the need what are the things necessary for us to actually manage that challenge that paul has done a nice job of articulating Um, and certainly from an industry and government perspective. There's probably a couple of dimensions Um, you're right paul or that we've had an incentive for renewables 10 years ago When the the cost wasn't as competitive but today that cost is as competitive So we certainly see the increase in renewable coming So our key challenge is a little similar to yours in that We believe that you've got to integrate both the climate and energy policy such that it provides the right incentive for the investment in that firming generation because The key challenge now is really one of reliability through that navigating change in technology, which is coming And we would think that that actually has if that can be done in a coordinated way and gives the right settings for private investment into those Um, firming generation and rewards them appropriately Then what we'll find is that will smooth out that reliability challenge And that's something that's upon australia right now when we have aging coal plant coming out Um, the second is that the government and industry has been really contemplating how does it How does it focus on the economic recovery and the reality is the governments and industry are going to have to work together So i've just talked about that that one of those challenges. The second one is in australia and i should just highlight arun that Gas plays a critical role for australia because of the firming generation But it doesn't play a key role in baseload energy So it's more of a capacity as part of that suite of technologies that poorly did a nice job of saying Things have got to compete against gas as it goes forward. So it is pretty critical to the linkage of that and the economic extraction for that While other technologies come available So it'd be really about the the development of that and how we can see that that might also support manufacturing in parts of our Economy as well. So that would be the other key area the government and industry are working through to see How how how we could actually help coming out of covered from an energy industry perspective So they're probably the the key things I'm very excited by what this has done though in terms of From my perspective the digital and other aspects that are associated with our customer journey I really very excited that we can see that that's um, that's accelerating rapidly and a great opportunity for our industry If we can uh, if we can embrace it and stay ahead of that curve Thanks, Frank. I mean what I've heard is that um a term that was used that this is the dress rehearsal For uh for energy and climate when you're trying to address climate. This is really the dress rehearsal See that's exactly wrong your comments on uh accelerating is spot on so We're going to go into the digital but here's quiz number three with the world under lockdown What is the expected reduction in energy related global carbon dioxide emissions? In 2020 is it five percent six percent eight percent Ten percent you got ten second. Okay. Let's see the answers Um people said eight percent. This is a very well read audience The answer is correct. It's eight percent of the 2.6 gigatons of co2 reduction Reduced coal would contribute about 1.1 gigaton followed by oil at 1 gigaton Gas at 0.4 gigatons. In fact renewable adoption has renewables uses actually gone up a little bit United States would undergo the largest reduction in CO2 emissions of about 0.6 gigatons, so Let's move on to the next Question and that is you alluded to earlier and we briefly talked about it on on this digital And so, you know, there's there's a there seems to be an understanding that to enable this transition in the energy sector There seems to be significant interest in using digital tools For coordination for control aggregation of distributed services system optimization And just automation broadly And then this is relatively new in the electricity sector although widely adopted in other industries like telecom Here at stanford. We have started something called the bits and watts. It's a campus-wide initiative To look at not only the technology part, but also the markets as well as the regulatory changes that need to happen and sort of looking at the combination of of technology and the electricity And to really form a bridge between the information industry, which we are surrounded by and the electricity industry So in your opinion, what benefits do you see in the digitalization? Does it reduce your cost? Does it increase revenue? Does it create new services? There's an open up new open up new business models And do we need changes in the regulatory framework? Which were developed before the digital revolution got into the electricity sector So let me start with frank and we'll go to paul Okay, thanks very much run I think this is one of the most exciting things that's going to emerge I mean, I think really those companies that can Embrace both data and energy and bring those together and the digitalization that flows from that will be those that succeed going forward And the reason we say that firstly is that if you think about just the transition I described earlier The rise of intermittent renewable energy through the day the combination of that with distributed energy assets the flow of that The the the increase that will emerge increase across the system in terms of distributed storage assets And let's not forget the electric vehicle will be a storage asset as well. So we're we're seeing that and combined with that I believe the The connectivity of devices increasingly through the internet of things within the home mean That we're going to have system power flows in multi direction Between both centralized production of energy, but also through a distributed system and and if you think about just the the the increase in Implementation of smart meters is in simple terms taken us from the dark age of four data points a year to 17,000 And as you say, you'll have much much more data points as you have more and more devices connected to one another So I really believe although we talked about a transition to renewables and distributed energy This is really the third big one and it's the one that's most connected to our customers So firmly of the view that this is in fact one of the big the big trends In our sector that's already underway To answer your question about what will that mean? Initially, it means I believe a customer experience and cost benefit So even in the core business today the way we interact with customers the way we serve them the way we sell to them The way they can engage with their their experience is becoming increasingly one where they understand their efficiency as well as their customer experience, but What you've highlighted is that as this all comes together It's going to convert now I believe into products and services and then to business models And the role I believe increasingly if you think about the energy company historically we were managing risk of Supply and demand through the flow of generation right through, you know transmission systems into the home We're now actually going to do that across millions of Assets that are distributed as well as that that essentially produced and those that can actually Provide that I believe will be the successful Organizations going forward What that does mean though? I think it starts and we should never forget before we get to the technological aspect It starts with building trust with your customer because what if you don't have trust then you're the prospect that you'll be able to aggregate And or manage that dynamically for your customers. I think you won't get through the first gate So I think trust we should never forget is the first place And be and citizenship I think is an organization is increasingly a source of competitive advantage that we must have and never forget about on the way through But I'm very excited by the fact that and we see this and just for the background of people We are a competitive energy market. We're not allowed to own the distribution and transmission assets so we really do need to Win our customers and retain our customers based on what we can offer them every single day and improving And so we have a market setting today that enables us to offer those in a competitive market setting environment What we would like to see is that those settings continue to reward and a good example would be things like demand management We've got virtual power plants. They're powered by ai. They're actually in real time managing assets for In our commercial and business customers, but also as you get into the home It's going to be able to do that in a simple way And we see that that's actually one of the key trends that over time You'll be managing people supply and demand aggregating supply and demand of customers And offering products that are simple and easy for them That give them not only the benefit of the assets they may have within their homes, but also within their community But also what you're doing is you're you're you're optimizing the way they want to use their energy throughout time And so the skills that we have really going forward are ones we're very much of Can you actually manage that? Can you in fact harness the data and can you translate that into meaningful insights? It's one of the great I think it's one of the great trends that will emerge. Um, and we're very excited to be part of that in the Australian market Paula, what do you think about digitalization and how will it benefit to you and your customers? Well, I I strongly agree with frank's Thoughts. I mean well before we got again to this period of You know global pandemic there was um a huge discussion about utilities in particular as we try to think about smart cities and smart communities and um And I think critically that's going to be part of our journey And trying to couple our traditional model with the evolution through utilizing technology You know Rourney said, you know, does that open this up for more partnerships and work with? Tech companies we absolutely believe that I've got a lot of Leaders in different industries and you know, they would describe themselves as becoming tech companies You know, what I believe Is that as frank says, you know, we are we are connected to our customers and trust is extremely important Um in the way that we serve them And our core service is optimizing energy and optimizing solution sets That that work towards them being able to to harness Power and energy what we want to be is we want to be tech enabled And we want to optimize The the talents that the tech industry has and we think our ability to partner with anyone Particularly in terms of new technology Um puts us in the best spot to better serve customers. We understand our customers. They understand the technology Let's try to figure out how to how to optimize it. We're going to keep a core amount of our um digitization Going so that there is a very secure environment. It's really important that the grid stays secure You know, I ran through them very quickly but one of our six pillars Is the security around the grid and the data that goes around it But we think there's a smart way to do it that optimizes that and it's absolutely critical And the way that we look at this process very much. There should be a lot more um digital solution placement at the operational end of our Uh services everything from our power plants. We need to we're you know, we're contemplating How do we change the whole control systems around there and again still keep them secure? um And then make sure as we're adding new technologies that the operational system is that that control all those assets Allow us to make to respond quickly and use algorithms and then the the talent and information again from tech companies That help us optimize our operation customers don't want to have to think consciously about every single transaction Technology should help that happen in the background and then you push it through the continuum more products and services sensors um You know services better operations of systems all of these things that can happen where you can bring in private and external investment into your community and again optimizing that partnership through Putting more digital solutions in the front. You know, we actually Are we have basically a? A slowdown of hiring so hiring freeze Mostly, but we decided that we were gonna We still have to operate and we still have to get through this period and we still have to think about the future So we strategically thought about what what positions would we Would we invest in even in the middle of a pandemic? And I would tell you one of the ones that went to the top is our vice president of digital solutions We we needed to bring someone into our organization that thinks differently than we do who Who has been in different industries and really can help us rethink Reimagine rebuild the plane and being able to think about it from the customer's prism And also be able to think about it in terms of the back office We think is one of the most critical areas. We were building up a team and then we brought in a leader to help us at the One of our top levels in the company Very excited. He has a ton of emotional intelligence As well as the technical ability to help us rethink and reimagine this journey That is important to embrace You know those solutions and and the you know to pull it all full circle again your rider room COVID has told us that technology is the way to optimize Everything we do again. Nobody would have ever if you told somebody that every single Meeting that we would have for a period of time would be through digital solutions and Frank and I would be here You know talking about very similar and different different circumstances Through a digital solution base that is common right zoom is common. Webex is common But this stuff is going to get easier and better and that there's no reason to think that that's not going to happen Through the full spectrum of energy solutions. So so absolutely it's critical for us to embrace it To to tell our people to go in learning mode to take folks with existing talents and grow those To get new students that come in and help us think about how to do things differently And figure out how to move from where you are to where you want to be So I'm going to move on to the student section But before I do that some quick answers for this on energy efficiency I mean, this is often called the low hanging fruit Yet it is one of the most difficult things to achieve in the retail industry because of a market failure That is increasing the electricity prices don't often reduce electricity consumption And you know reducing the price increasing the prices won't be fair to the low income folks It's it's that so it doesn't have any effect So traditionally energy efficiency has been achieved by regulations, you know applying standards building codes Since you're dealing with customers on a daily basis And so let me ask you what incentives or business model innovations Could you introduce to dramatically increase energy efficiency as opposed to incrementally Doing it which is what we are I think what we are doing right now with codes and and applying standards, etc Paula you want to take a quick shot at this? Well, yeah, sure. I mean actually I'm always excited about energy efficiency and conservation You know, we've had a very successful program that we launched in 2008 And for us it has worked now we what we did at the very beginning was realized that there are the considerations of cost and the considerations of Different people across the spectrum in the community who need different types of help Our most expensive programs are the programs where people can't contribute anything and they're not as effective Let's say some of our rebate programs on the solar side, but that didn't matter to us for us It had to be a blend We had to be able to make sure that we could weatherize homes on one end of the spectrum We created A solar lighting solution For customers that they don't have to pay for that we can couple with other other, you know, contribution programs and find ways to give people No cost no cost participation We created a solar host program where where a customer doesn't have to buy the system But they get a a rebate for allowing us to use their rooftop For us economies of scale matters to be able to blend it matters We were able to reach 800 megawatts of energy saved. So we effectively got that But we kept adding to the portfolio. We have demand response program. That is very effective. It helps us manage not only The peak inside of tech san antonio, but it helps us contribute to reducing the peak in the state So it's a portfolio effect. And so I think that's that's wonderful. Now look Because there's no federal aid that comes into that or state aid It's paid for every single customer in san antonio pays about anywhere from $3.50 to about $5.50. So we're all paid into a fund Depending on, you know, you know, what's your what's your utilizing how many megawatts And then those funds are available to those who want to elect into Opt into these programs and it has worked. Um, the the whole thing We saved a hundred million dollars. So it cost about 750 million dollars, but we saved 800 megawatts of power So we believe it works now. Some people will come to us and say, well, that's that's great But to your point of room What happens if you supersize it? What happens if you won't go after 2000 megawatts of power? it the issue is as the As it becomes the investment of the community 2000 megawatts of power make it so that every single person has to contribute Twice as much into the program to create the fund because again, there's nowhere else. Is that bad? No, it's it's really good. Most people once they find out what it what what works. They'll be willing to do that However, in the middle of covet and so people are out of jobs And so it's changed it's kind of slowed down the momentum at least for I think the foreseeable next 12 to 24 months But I think we'll be back at it and people have to figure out what they're willing to pay for now on average Most of our customers we survey them all the time. They don't pay about five dollars. They'll say I'll pay Regardless of their demographics. So they'll kind of agree to pay about up to five dollars for energy efficiency and conservation So it is it's not that it's a failure There's a value proposition that all people also put onto that program And you got to manage to that and the good thing is Prices come down the more effective that technology is And so as long as you're moving your rebate money To come down as prices come down and you keep optimizing it for affordability I think it's very effective until for us. We've seen a great deal Of success with it Great. Thanks Frank. So Quick thoughts on energy efficiency on steroids. What would you do? Yeah, sure Yeah, so I think um, firstly appliances lighting. They've all had an impact consumptions coming down So those have all been effective in fact some ways. I think over the last decade Arun if you looked at really what really spurred on rooftop solar as much as that might have not appeared to have been a A an efficiency nevertheless people adopted that and they adopted in in With quite some gusto because I think they were responding to that Economic impact of energy and therefore how do they respond and I think you're right. We have to be mindful about Creating winners and losers and the least the most vulnerable for example can't afford solar So we can't afford to have those things going forward I think with the um increase of just to extend the previous um topic I think there's really some exciting things that I think will happen in terms of the evolution of energy efficiency And we're seeing that already now with direct demand management demand response programs Whether they be with industrial customers that are rewarding those Customers and secondly now with the consumer, which really does center around The ability for you to actually be able to manage those devices and utilize And offer products and services that reward customers for that efficiency We've been working with a number of partners um across um and both the us UK Am in in that respect. Um, and so we've established that AI powered Demand response program where we'll have increasingly more and more devices connected to it um one of the innovations around that actually is a partnership that we're We've entered into with a company that you may all know out of california the called own connect Which actually gamifies demand response and we think one of the key things as compared to industrial customers Is how do you actually take advantage of really the key skills and capabilities of that organization? In order for us to actually engage the customer into that ongoing Management of their own efficiency that as you all know has a variety of rewards not all of which is financial It is financial But it can also be that they'll actually invest back into energy efficiency devices and other other programs that way So we're excited to be launching that And one of the key things actually through those partnerships just to really point out Paula is that we are really working with you know, lots of organizations and other ones into trust because how do we manage security? How do we manage cyber security? How do we build trust? So we'll definitely Continue those programs. I continue to come back to trust and working with those partnerships But I really do think That that digital enablement and engagement of the customer into demand management is actually one of the guiding ways forward that I think efficiency will take the next leap Terrific. So I'm going to get shaban paul the phd student at stanford on board But before we go to her, this is quiz number four. There's the last one As a roughly how many as of march 2020 roughly how many Square miles were burned by the unusually intense fires in australia 5 000 square miles 10 000 50 000 70 000 Okay, let's see the answers very well read audience 70 000 is indeed the correct answer 48 percent got it right Over to you shaban Hi, thank you so much frank and paul for taking the time to take student questions today. It's really kind of you Um, the first question I have is actually related to the fires about climate adaptation So the question is australia faces wildfires while texas faces tropical storms What are some of the unique technologies or operating strategies your utilities have adopted in the face of these environmental challenges? And to follow up, how do you plan to adapt as climate change is expected to worsen the severity of these events? And what can other utilities learn from your example? Probably the wildfires are the are the You know conversation for the day, so I'll let you go first frank. Okay. Thank you Yeah, well, I'm really pleased that you actually put a trivia question on australia But you've obviously also highlighted what a devastating impact that's had Um on our wildlife but also on many many communities And I was raising just before this call that those communities have walked straight out of a an incredibly Difficult time straight into a pandemic. So it's been a tough year for those communities There's probably two levels to that answer shaban. Firstly, you talked about operating strategies and systems in place um And really that's our preparedness about how do we reliably run our business while bushfire With bushfires occurring and I think there's no doubt that climate change contributed to prolonged drought conditions I think at the same time there was also government policies around backburning But I think we've all learned so much and there's been a significant review And the key thing for us really is how do we prepare ourselves because we had a couple of power stations that were very close to those bushfires And so the first thing that we're focused on is how do we make sure they rely Operate reliably and there's a very good preparedness program that goes in place And um, and the way we can also dispatch nearly all of our plant. I think with exception of one We can all dispatch and operate those plants remotely is also one of the advantages that we have But there's a lot that goes into the actual management in those circumstances That's at the operating level, but I think your question goes to a broader one Um, and the broader one is really how are you managing The the climate change Strategic issue or global issue that we all talk about Firstly at a high level electricity generation represents about one third of the emissions in a in in australia And the other key emitting sectors are both transport and agriculture So we have a firm belief at origin that energy of electricity generation must do more than its proportionate share If we're to reach the overall targets And so that's where we're very much focused on that Um, and what we've done is set a strategy based on that that centers around a number of things We set science-based target initiative in 2017 with the first Australian company to do that Under these targets, what we said was we would um reduce our direct emissions Our scope one and scope two that we would halve those by 2032 and I'll come back to the reason for that And also that we would reduce our scope three emissions by 25 by that time We said we would exit coal fired generation by 2032. We only have the one coal plant, but it's a large plant and um, and also then we said we would um, and we would also increase our renewable generation in 2016 We've underpinned the development of about 1200 megawatts of new generation From renewables, which is large-scale solar and wind And that will be by the end of this calendar. I think 25 percent of our generation capacity So we really are making sure we invest in those And that is part of a broader as you say We've been long-standing supporters of a net zero emissions for that electricity sector by 2050 One of the things about that is that that that balance that paula spoke about earlier of how do we manage both Affordability while we remain on this path is that a lot of people would say well, some people might say well Can you go faster than that and we really do explore that every single day And one of the key things for us really is the coal plant timing of coming out is really a delicate balance between The affordability issue and we've actually seen coal plant come out early So even it's an ongoing dialogue with governments about how to manage that Coming out and that will be by far and away the biggest thing that we can do to reduce our scope one emissions But very much I think you know that is as I said to you earlier. I think the transition is accelerating And that we would continue to do all of those things I think to to support what I believe is our role overall and in achieving emissions reduction that goes towards climate change I'll just chime in a bit. I mean it is a challenge for us relative to hurricanes and And interestingly, you know, we the way I look at san antonio again, we have You know, we're the seventh largest city in in the united states and we have a full spectrum of believers and our customers some people A lot of people increasingly are believing in climate change. I have some that don't believe in climate change and I still serve them But I tell them We we in one year. We experienced tornadoes floods You know, you know that were just remnants of hurricanes hurricanes And we had snow and black ice all in one year in texas which in san antonio, which I grew I'm born here in racier You know, you hardly ever see snow let alone all of those formations, but we predominantly get affected by hurricanes and much to what where frank was going we look at it both in terms of How do you deal with the fact that this is a global deal and even for every single Community or part of the world that's working on it It's going to take time because every every bit of effort isn't Um, absolute it's incremental And so we think about how do we respond? So Where our digital solutions around our AMI meters have given us a tremendous amount of ability To at least respond better in terms of storm activity To be able to proactively call customers to be able to diagnose the issue and tell them what it is And when we believe that we will get on and then follow up I mean, there's still the personalization of energy. That's really important So using your data and your sensor technology to do that better service gives your customers a lot better Belief that the that the energy company is a partner with it within that back to what we talked about earlier They're they're going to be additional digital solutions that give us more data to tell us where the floods are to give us more information Um to to focus on safety to be able to rewrite traffic to be able to do All different types of things associated with things that are brought on by Natural disasters and those imprints. It's still in turn. We've got to get into and proactive and get in front of it I mean, we're you know, are we late? We're we're we're not done. We have to keep finding those solutions that frank was talking about And thinking about the things that we can contribute. We're probably closer to the 40 45 percent contributor of Emissions, but we've reduced them tremendously for us. The big right behind us is transportation And where a room was going before we really want to one of our next objectives is to try to create a attraction to bring in more infrastructure around evs in san antonio And I'll give you this one little analogy though. I mean it is a delicate balance and trying to figure it out because look You have to think now about the ability to keep the power on so that you can get and keep your car charged enough to get away from a store And so thinking about systems and backup systems and and thinking thoughtfully about how do you partner with Companies that are going to help us put the best systems out there in terms of evs infrastructure Chargeability long long charges on vehicles, you know, really expanding the distance capabilities on electric vehicles All of those things we're trying to think about it again in the real term and then where should we be going and how How much faster can we go in terms of new technology in the future? Thank you so much. It's a really hard problem and those are really helpful answers Your answer about evs actually leads into one of the other questions we had from a student Which is when we talk about targets that have 50 percent or higher penetration of evs People talk about the challenges and benefits that could pose to electricity systems What do you think it will take to make your systems ready to support that kind of penetration and what are some of the challenges? I mean I will jump in real quick and then turn it over to frank. I mean again It's it's it's not just the the ability to supply and to push the power to ways and all these things You got to have the infrastructure That expertise on the infrastructure where the charging stations are are they at homes? Are they are they you know, can you get as much infrastructure as you do with gas? gasoline stations gas stations that type of of investment and that type of Moving the technology along and making it a really economical investment for people who are really good at that I think we've got to create more of the access for them So we we feel like we've got the power thing that we know that we we're going to be able to move it Um and help people think about building codes as a room talk through those kind of things to help retrofits that And rebates and all of that But we've got to get a lot more people who have that expertise to keep pushing that industry to get that infrastructure in Yeah, so from from my perspective I think the key thing that will in addition to what paul has said is that Really the integrated system planning around transmission and distribution as well As we start seeing a proliferation of greater What you would describe a storage asset sitting in the system as well. So I actually think that's probably the key um The key challenge that will be over time as more and more Evies come into the system in addition to what um in addition to paul's challenge So I think that that's probably the key the key thing from my perspective over time I do see it by the way the proliferation, but it'll be that that's the key the key other step on the way Thank you So just one more quick question from the student questions Um, we've talked a bit about integration of renewables, but people often say that 80 percent is a lot more challenging than 50 percent So what are some of the breakthroughs that you think are needed to reach 80 percent? Either technological regulatory business related breakthroughs to get to that challenge Yeah I'll go first and then I'll hand over to paul It probably extends from my previous answer that when we start seeing more and more renewables being built What it happens is that that that that system planning about where it's located the transition and then the distribution that's sitting alongside it So that it doesn't get constrained and that's efficient and then it can be enabled. I think that's one of the key steps The second step is one that we've covered previously, which I'll just quickly mention and that is that With new build for renewables being the cheapest form of new build What really will be the constraining factor from our perspective is that there's enough of that firming capacity and I I just wanted to make sure that people were clear that the colder renewables means From our perspective, there is definitely gas fired generation in our market It's all peaking capacity and it will still play a key role But I believe that that is the the key in our in our case in Australia That's the key challenge that must be addressed to support The intermittent nature of renewables as it continues to get built and I think that's quieter That's quite a large investment challenge alongside renewables that needs to be supported. They were the the two key areas And if that planning is right and that and there will be advancement in technology So I'm really confident it'll be a suite of technologies over time It'll be that there's the right signals for that investment to support it over time so that customers We balance that affordability on the way through. Yeah, that's the key for me If I pull on the Frank's thread though and this part's not always It's not, you know, as as easy to kind of articulate but um The the thing that when I talk to um commissioners across the the united states They absolutely are concerned about, you know, the affordability aspect for customers They want to keep prices down and controllable little as little volatility as possible And and I we we agree. I mean we think that's a great opportunity and the renewable pricing has come down For us gas as well has basically kept, you know, put the the price of power at a very very affordable rate But that the the challenge is when you're trying to put on The technology that you need to smooth out that transition to go to a whole lot more renewables And and the system optimization that has to happen so that the power is resilient and reliable Requires as Frank said investments now our historical investment hurdles and investment horizons horizons have been 50 60 in some cases 80 years when you can do that and optimize an asset over time when you make that investment You can you can find a way to you know to eke out of business and smooth out the costs What's going to happen are these investments are going to require shorter time periods to recover that investment and And if prices are suppressed though for new interest for people who want to bring in new solutions non-amending solutions They have to have enough incentive To make those investments in the system and so in reality either you got to have that or again You have to have so much federal funding to support and smooth out those things that it works for for your community But you put that in line with every other thing that causes a deficit in your federal budget And trying to figure that out again so that it has the least amount of impact On your customers Is a really complicated thing So so it still matters and that transition piece isn't isn't a snap of the finger It isn't isn't a declaration of we're going to just get there Those intermittent things that happen those signals that are sent those the capacity payments that happen that helps move in New technology is is a pretty complicated thing and in some places We we may be we may be suppressing market forces To try to keep low prices when in fact we need to let a little bit more market force come in To incentive technology and and maybe the piece that helps again is partnerships with tech companies and other companies that want to get Um, you know optimized with utility companies So but there are so many moving parts to make that happen. I think that's important to get renewables optimized They're just not resilient enough by themselves. They have to have that firming capacity and that investment incentive has to be there for it Okay, thank you so much on behalf of all the students who sent in questions. Thank you for taking the time to answer them It was really interesting. Um, and now I have to pass it back to Arun Thank you so much. Great job So now now we're in the last, um, you know the home stretch with questions from the, um audience And let me ask I'm going to combine a few and ask them There are a few questions on trust and both of you have mentioned this And I'm going to parse it out into two parts. One is the trust with your customers and the question is which programs have worked or have not worked in establishing customer trust But there's another part of the trust that I'm going to add to this and that is you all mentioned digital is a big deal And you want to pursue digital, but there's a trust in that in terms of cyber as well protecting data and The your customers are entrusting you with a lot of data But at the same time we know that uh data is also precious and we are surrounded by companies out here Where people don't always trust the data with them. So how do you preserve? How do you build a trust? How do you preserve it with your customers? Um, I'll I'll jump in. I mean, um, you know, there's a one we have a philosophy so We don't sell our data Uh at all Um, you know, look, there's there's clearly the even concerns some customers will call us and say I don't want you selling our data or giving it to anyone because my usage patterns might dictate What, you know, whether I'm home, let alone what I'm doing, right? Um, they sometimes a customer I haven't had this question a long time Some customers think that there's so much data that the you know, the energy company is monitoring That's not what we're doing at all. We're we're aggregating data and we don't sell it until we're constantly telling people we don't Um, and we think as a municipal we need to stay in that that safe place to make sure that customers know That's where we start from that. We don't sell it now It's fascinating to me That um at a tech company will have an app and everybody in the world doesn't and I do it I go get an app and they'll say do you agree because I'm going to use your I want to look at your cookies I'm going to watch what you do and I'm going to keep your data and I'm going to do what you want And you say I agree just like that just like that because you want to utilize the app And so interestingly there's this weird place for utilities where a lot of people don't want Their utility company to do things like that and while we're comfortable What we do believe is that customers will share data or will allow their data to be shared If they know what it's going to be used for And if they like a lot of people what we find have a higher calling they'll go up Yeah, I'll opt into that if the utility company is going to work with another company that's going to help us optimize uh building Building design for codes and reduce the use of consumption. You got to figure out how to do that, you know quickly But but people will opt in so our only strategy is trust us. We're not going to give it to anyone But when you want to partner with us and when you want to come into our smart cities initiatives And you opt in this is how we're going to utilize and and um optimize your information And we take off all the you know, we also make the commitment to take off all the the unique information IDs names um those kind of things so so for us we have to keep building it reinforcing talking about it And again, clearly make sure that people know We have a limit so some sometimes we have other partners that come to us and say they want utility information And we decline and we say no, we just don't give it out. Just you know, it's got to be a very Um optimal purpose to help a customer and they have to knowingly know that and they have to opt into it Frank, I'm sure you've thought about this Yeah, I've thought about it long. Um, so firstly, I think trust is there's a fundamental piece before that about What does it take you to actually earn it over time as? Someone that is with your customers all of the time and doing the right thing, you know, that might be product services pricing Supporting them through change hardship. There's a whole range loyalty. They're all foundational elements And I believe they're some in some ways the hardest to earn Then when you go into digital, I think the first thing is privacy. I mean privacy is just incredibly crucial And we're all responding to a higher and higher standard every single day in terms of protecting the data for millions of our customers Cyber security is in growing significantly Importance as data has become more important to run the business cybersecurity in twofold not only for the physical operating assets because that's become obviously a key Area of focus but obviously when we get to to um the cyber security more broadly with our customer data And I think as I we think a bit about that that trend earlier that takes us into higher An internet of things world more distributed assets connected We're not going to be able to put a wall around security the way we might have historically thought about it So we're going to need to embrace new technologies And I'm happy to call out that one of the companies we've invested in is based in your part of the world called inter trust That has digital rights. And so we think increasingly We will need to be innovative In terms of the way we think about security if we're going to actually continue to offer products and services that are Historically got you engaging more with people's devices in their homes They're smart meter and a and a broader set of community assets So there's going to be new capabilities that need to emerge with that to paulers point And that's one of the reasons why I talk about citizenship will be a corporate It will be a source of competitive advantage over time is that we really need to put a lens on what do we believe Will be the expectations of our customers that we're on that journey with them over time And I think that we've really got to say what is the right thing To do and should we do that? They're important questions And I think they've never been more important in in society than today and I think that we've got to take great care and And we we could easily lose that trust if we make the wrong calls along the way so I have to say of all of the the excitement that comes with this journey comes a great responsibility And I think one of the things you can look to is the history of organizations And know what it takes to protect and support customers as a guiding light But also to know that there'll be capabilities that you'll need to bring in expertise and invest in through partners like we have as well Great So we have a few minutes for the last question and this is I'm picking this one because I think we are all at trying to figure this out You know, the question is how are we going to live post COVID-19? I mean, I don't know about you. I get pretty sick and tired of sitting in front of a computer all day long And when when we get vaccinated, I want to go out and go to a bar or go to work and meet my colleagues But I'll probably be traveling less because I think I figure this out now that I could do international Things much easier this way And we probably live in a hybrid world. So so What is your perspective on what the world is likely to be? Post COVID-19 right immediately a little bit longer after that Will it die out to go back to the same normal that we had? um And how what does that imply? On the energy and it's what implication does it have in the energy industry frank? You want to go for it? I'm happy to go first I'll I'll stay clear of whether you go to the bar before you go to see your colleagues are on and just focus on the work Environment, okay, because we'll all be doing different things. I'm sure but From my perspective, I thought about the future ways of working and as an organization It's probably easier than thinking about where I'll be going socially But I actually think that we've forever changed. I don't think we're going back to where we were And I think partly that's the fact that I think what we've accelerated is what's what can be done when you don't have an opt-in You have the only ability to opt out. I think what we've seen is we've accelerated change So I I personally believe will be in a in a hybrid form of working Going forward where we flexibility will be a combination of both people working remotely and working from the office The technology will be managing on the basis that there'll always be someone Engaging with you technologically and maybe not physically But what I what I think around that though is that we need to actually preserve culture and affiliation along the way So I don't see a pure world one way or the other in your reflection or on is a is a case in point that there's still that I don't think we can think that this is purely Affiliated all the way and that will be contained and cultural organizations will need to be preserved So I definitely think though that we'll be we'll be in a in a far more flexible and hybrid form of organization, but And I believe there'll be less travel Internally for work There'll be less need for that and I think that's and people have welcomed many many of those changes So I think we'll be preserving a number of those things going forward But yeah, so but I do think that there'll be some things that we'll want to balance compared to where we are today That's my personal view and I I genuinely believe There'll be a new social contract. I think with employees I think honestly about how do we think about that that it will be founded on trust But it'll also be how does the team the individual and the organization work together I think that's quite an exciting opportunity But I don't think we should say that that's an easy thing for us to To balance and I think that we'll we'll end up going forward on that way and I think that's I mean that that's got some excitement to it There are a lot of our employees that are telling us that there are some things that we'd love to preserve And how do we get the balance of that right? I'll try to make mine really quick. I I think we have been changed I don't think it goes back to the way it was We are building a new We we are taking a brownfield site that had been abandoned for decades and we're rebuilding it and part of San Antonio and our goal was to put You know, I guess 1,500 or so employees in that in that building But I you know what I'm telling folks is I'm not going to force people to come back just to come back and make it look like it was I want people to be flexible. I want them to be able to feel comfortable that they can work from home And um when they need to come into the office to come in and I also encourage them to feel to not Anchor even in the office like like Treat it like co-telling if you want to be on the the first floor today But you want to be on the fifth floor tomorrow and you want to spread out and you want to you want to be creative We want our our facility to feel more Um flexible just like our flexible path strategy So we believe that and I don't think travel will be as much but I do think people have figured out right before covid the world was Everything was available. You could go all the way across the world and go to australian study and And and appreciate and I still think as a human being That's still an attractive thing. So I think travel will be more about pleasure Once we get the safety element down And business will do a lot better with with not having to travel as much However, we're doing a big global rfp. We want people to bring us technology So we'll have to figure it out. We ultimately are going to have to create those most important streams of of connection To really make sure that we get these these implementations that are seamless And that there's enough trust between partners that are across the globe. So it'll be different But I think actually we'll have probably be more effective With our time well to all my colleagues How about if I say that I'll go to the bar, but I'll see you at the bar Then I won't be crucified by my colleagues, but Let's end wait Let's give a big round of applause to to paul and frank. Thank you so much for joining us today And to all of you joining us from around the world We hope you found today's local energy dialogue informative and relevant during these unprecedented times Now, please join us two weeks from now on august 18 for a conversation with don evans of 34th us secretary of commerce who served under president george w bush Who's also texan and he has been a long time thought leader in the energy industry We will explore with him the energy transition going on in different parts of the world And its impact on trade on geopolitics and international security In the 21st century again, please register on our website gef.standford.edu And note that the date and time august 18 8 30 to 10 a.m california time and on behalf of the entire stand for prequery institute for energy We thank the students and all our audience joining us today paul and frank. Thank you so much Thank you everyone. Have a nice day everyone You save Same to you