 And we're back. Oh boy. Here it is. If only there's a theme tune. I mean we could get one Oh, yeah, we that's something that we could do maybe that's our theme tune is not having like a tune Wow, that sounds that sounds really creative and really Thrifty thank you. I appreciate that or it could just be a really quick one like the smiling friends wanders Dudes Yeah, like a fucking Coke dream what's that called it's it is it like a jingle or is it longer? Like a little I suppose yeah like something else like under ten seconds I actually have never thought about what the definition of a jingle is honestly, that's uh, I'm curious thoughts here any fanbases come up and I'm down to that question I guess Speaking of thrift, uh, well, so definition to which is the relevant one is a short slogan verse or tune designed to be easily remembered, especially is used in advertising. So I've only understood jingle to be musical. Uh, well, it's because jingle also describes like jingling keys, the sound that that makes as a definition. Like if someone was to like, I guess that's the difference between a slogan and a jingle. If you sing it, it's a jingle. If it's just like a phrase or words, it's a slogan. You know, funnily enough, by that definition, there are a lot of things that I don't know that would often be called jingles that are jingles like short themes for, for, um, for like movies or video games that are like, you know, the terminated don't don't don't don't that could be called a jingle, technically. I guess if you cut it off as part of advertising, well, like the battlefield one, they just use that over and over and over, which funnily enough, they sound very similar. Um, yeah, yeah, they use that one over and over and over again. At that point, that could be a jingle potentially, like the fact that it's often used in advertising and it's recognized. Hmm. This is giving me a lot to think about. Like if like the McDonald's, but I'm loving that jingle. That's a quintessential musical. Oh, yeah, jingling. What, what is, um, well, so here's a question. Um, what about like, would you consider like the universal or 20th century Fox or, you know, like the intros for movies with that constituted jingle? Do you reckon? Like, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but is that a, is that a jingle? What about, are you talking about like, um, I'm talking about like the universal or wanna, cause you know how Warner Brothers uses, um, it's his time goes by right from Casablanca. Yeah, that's the Fox one. I'm talking about ones like that though. Yeah. Is that one that's called the Warner Brothers one? It's from Casablanca. I don't remember. But yeah, I guess I'm, do you think those are jingles rags? Considering, um, I don't know. I think a jingle is like self contained. Like it's designed to be short and small. It's not just what if we stopped the song at like the first, you know, six seconds or whatever. Well, I guess this is kind of cause like I said, I'm pretty sure the Warner Brothers one is as time goes by, which is a full song. But then when you condense it down into a jingle that's associated with Warner Brothers, doesn't that just make it? Which is applicable to what you've seen about Terminator. The da-dun-dun-dun is like, that's what a lot of people will sing even though it's a part of a full song. Yeah, I don't know how I feel. Well, let's put it this way. The Avengers theme is part of a broader composition, but like the Avengers theme is a specific section of that broader composition. I would happily call that a jingle if we're going by these definitions. I feel like a, is that, but are we, so what are we saying is the difference between like a motif and a jingle? Well, maybe there isn't a difference. Maybe the difference between a motif and a jingle is just how much people recognize it as like being associated with some kind of brand or story. Maybe there's a lot of, you know, like, um, like, because the da-dun-dun-dun-dun you're in Lord of the Rings. I mean, that's a that's a pretty recurring motif. But like, I don't know that that would be called a jingle because I don't know that that's what people think of straight away when they think of Lord of the Rings music. They're probably thinking of, you know what I mean? Do you think that something being a jingle is necessarily like it needs to be to some degree corporate or commercial? Like there needs to be a commercial element to it to make it a jingle? Is that what the difference is? I don't think it's necessary because that definition said like, especially, especially is used in marketing. But the fact that it says, especially rather than necessarily, you know? What if like a motif is generally something that is used and reapplied in multiple ways? Maybe that doesn't really happen with jingles. Jingles are usually just one and done for the most part. I get what you mean. Maybe that's the difference. Is it they're like incorporated over and over? Yeah, because like a lot of a lot of like motifs in music will not be like a carbon copy one for one of the exact same, you know, the exact same chords with the same instruments necessarily will be with like different instruments or different speeds. Or whereas like the McDonald's jingle is what it is always. It's like consistent with very, very, very, very minor variation. Yeah. But if like for October for spooky ween, if they did like a kind of spookier version of that, I don't know if I'd feel OK saying, well, now it's a motif. It's not a jingle. I'd be like, it's the jingle just a little different now for Halloween. I wonder if this is just a case of the definition. Like it's a very blurry line. There's no clear line delineating a jingle from just a regular song. Well, when you when you hear jingle, when you hear that, what is your mind kind of go to? What do you think of? Because for me, I think about almost exclusively like corporate advertisement. I think of advertisement, too. Yeah. Well, I think I think that's kind of I think it would be like even if I thought that there was a jingle that was derived from like a film or a TV show that had some scenes that it was attached to that I guess you would say is like more fundamentally artistic. I feel like a jingle that would be associated with like a franchise would be something that kind of goes beyond specific beats to like reminding me of a brand or a series of some kind, kind of like the battlefield theme. I don't know that I think of any specific moment in any of the games when I hear it. It's like, oh, that's the battlefield theme. Yeah, it's like we're thinking of it from like a yeah, like that brand perspective. The more I think about it, the more strongly I kind of feel about they're needing to be that element, especially in advertising as part of the definition. It's not that it's necessarily, but that that is like what typically means. That's what it's typically for is for advertising and marketing. Well, these are the kinds of discussions that you don't get most places. No, you don't really. That's the people get to enjoy something while other people are still being like, oh, if that's live, oh, my God, I got to put everything aside. My family in a car, teaching on the edge of a cliff, but I got to see the EFAP episode first. I will sort them out right after, you know, you got to give everyone a chance to come in. I mean, I still don't know that four balls on the edge of the cliff. That was that was tough for me to understand. I was pretty straightforward compared to the Secret of Mario's jump, though. I'm glad we learned the Secret of Mario's jump. Did we? Did we ranks? Did we? Yeah. Did we? Yeah, it was in the video. He definitely told us. We have. If that's true, then what was it? I mean, we all know because it says on the video. Well, if that's true, then why did he say he hasn't? Well, that's. Well, that's madness. That couldn't possibly be the case. Brags, I'm so sorry. That the reality where he explained the secret never happened. Isn't that why I think you've had like a side? Isn't that fucking nuts? You got a psychosis because you couldn't deal with the idea that he hadn't explained it. So you you create a world where he had where the secret was clear. I'm creating a false reality, a multi, a different universe. And we'll get into multiverses during the CFAP, I'm sure. Oh, probably an alternate universe where what's his name? Mark Brown answers the questions. I haven't watched it in a while. But there is still makes the same videos or not. I'm not itching to watch another Mark Brown video. Of course, because what little he says I'll already know. What little he says we all already know. And then I don't think I've learned anything from. That video and it could have been the secret of Mario's jump. Well, that's like your opinion, man. So anyway, there's there's a couple of sources of information, couple of revelations and a signaling, I think, of a new era. We've crossed over some kind of line culturally when it comes to Disney, specifically, obviously, the two big pillars being Marvel and MCU, and so Marvel and MCU, two big pillars. Yeah, the two big Marvel and the MCU. Yeah. What else is there after that? Yeah, even one other thing. Yeah, Star Wars. What? That's part of that. That's part of the MCU. Yeah, part of the MCU. I know and appreciate it. And then, of course, I'm looking forward to Indiana Jones. When he apparently there's going to be a payoff. And I think it's a pretty cool one. Iron Man's going to run out of energy on and then Indiana Jones is going to whip whip like his wheels and it's going to spin the gears. And then it'll it'll come back up. And I was like, yeah. Oh, Energon's from Transformers, isn't it? Right. So well, obviously, Transformers is the MCU, so it makes sense. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, as many may have heard, an article came out and I'm interested in reading it, not like like with with you guys and and chat, not necessarily because it's all true. I'll skip to that part where it's been contested in many ways, shapes and forms. But just more so to speculate on what it means and the fact that it came out, wasn't it like a day or the same day or a few days after the South Park episode? Oh, I think so. Yeah. People consider that quite the coincidence. I'm not sure what to think of that. I don't know. Actually, I don't know the article. It's the cover story for the month. So I presume that it was. Like that that would be a coincidence, probably. But I guess it would be more so maybe it's not a coincidence because, again, the fact that the article even exists is indicative of a change in the in the state of affairs. This article was where was it posted? Because I'm not familiar with this article. Oh, I'll link you in a second, but to give a trajectory and itinerary, we're going to go through that. And then we're going to look at statements made trajectory distant forums about a lot of behind the scenes stuff that happened. We're going to talk about that. Then we got three videos to see. They're short one or shortish, at least, OK, you know, it works at EFAP and some images that are there of amusing and we're just going to be got it could be a long one tonight. Don't know. We'll find out. Yes, I'm still wearing my Halloween outfit. I'm pretty sure I put it on before both of you are. Anyway, that's just I guess I don't know about that. Fringy could just be that could is that what is that what lurks under the mask? I left it on because we still had Halloween stuff to record. But I guess I mean, it's it's actually that's true. Yeah, well, that's what I do tonight. Oh, do we? Yes. Yeah, technically, I mean, you know what I mean? I think I know what you mean. It's complicated. Chad, it'll all make sense one day. Don't you worry? I went back to regular mode. That's why I figured I was going to leave it on. Yeah, but I'm OK. Yeah. I'll just you got to get a Thanksgiving themed one. That's or this like general theme. I mean, I guess Thanksgiving doesn't seem very applicable because we don't celebrate Thanksgiving. It's not a holiday here. Well, you can celebrate it if you'd like. Yeah, because like the universal nature of being thankful for what you have. So what I draw myself as a turkey or something. You could you could draw yourself as a turkey or you could just be surrounded by pumpkins, maybe pumpkin pie. You could have leaves. Leaves are great. All those the yellow and red and all that sort of thing. And I find it funny because now it's starting to get to summer. So really, the appropriate one would be me very upset. When are you moving to the northern hemisphere? I don't know. Because, boy, it's so great up here. Man, I'm telling you. I mean, you know, upstairs, we call it. You want to when you go upstairs to the northern hemisphere. You get out of the basement for you. It's all there is no up and down in the universe. All right, it's all it's all. OK, he's free with the final order, apparently. Here's where you're wrong, because one of them is called the northern hemisphere and one of them is called the southern hemisphere. That's true, but that's that's a matter of obviously we're above you. Marley. I mean, where is where is where? Towards the northern hemisphere. OK, well, what are you of justice is long, but it bends towards the northern hemisphere. Look, it's unique. The southern hemisphere is mostly ocean, which makes it a real interesting kind of place. There's not many. There's not many big old land masses down here. I think like seventy something percent of all humans live in the northern hemisphere. I think I think it's actually sorry. No, I got it wrong. It's that 30 percent, 30 percent of the land is in the southern hemisphere. 10 percent of the population is here. Ninety percent of the world lives in really that much. Damn. Well, yeah. Because, remember, the equities drawn at like Indonesia. Like a good portion of South America is actually above the northern hemisphere, like the most of most of the southern hemisphere is ocean. The only land masses are Australia. The majority of South America and Antarctica, where nobody lives except for a few scientists. Penguins, right? Or is that the northern hemisphere? Which one is the penguin? Only penguins in the southern hemisphere. There are no penguins in the north pole. So where are the polar bears? All of us are in the northern hemisphere. OK, so they never like meet most of the. No, that no, that's no fun. It's probably good for the penguins, though, that they don't eat. Yeah, it's pretty chill for them. That's they only got to worry about seals. But you know, you may hear fireworks randomly. I know that like special occasion. Well, almost sort of. But like, I don't know. Just you know, in the background. What's the occasion? Well, I mean, I want to get going. OK, we keep going off on tangents, which is something we never, ever, ever do. But we've got a lot to get through today. OK, yeah, let's do it. Let's talk about. And I got to do reading. How disgusting is that? Then again, we could just go in a paragraph between each other, right? Ha, ha, offloading. Yeah, cool. Well, what would you say that the topic for this EFAP is? The dead reckoning of Disney, I think is what I've called it. Oh, my God. And it's hard to do with, like, tangible, statistical results, stuff that we'll talk about. And also just to do with cultural changes, which you're probably more than aware of. But we can sort of put them together a little bit. I mean, one of the things that's worth mentioning is we have been watching Loki, not planning to do an episode four. It will be having EFAP TV episodes. It's terrible on their way. Absolutely awful. As of episode five, that's the recent one. It's just it's right. There was season one that shoulder to shoulder just like, yeah, we're awful. The giants of being the absolute worst stories in the air. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's I think, Frangie, you had mentioned that viewership was down 40 percent. That is season two, as I understand it. The premiere was down 40 percent from season one. So I don't remember. Loki was there like, OK, we got this working, at least. That was like, oh, no. But it's and it's weird thinking about it, considering it was one of the earliest ones. It was there like second show or something like that, that show. That third show. What were what were the ones before Loki? Well, one division, Falcon and Winter Soldier for the first. Oh, yeah. Well, yeah. OK. Yeah. So all the Goodwill started to drain hardcore. Yes. Well, even we were kind of like the first couple of episodes of One Division. We were like, hey, all right, this is something. Then it went to shit. Oh, yeah. At least it took a couple of episodes. Oh, yeah. And that's that's where I mean, everything's everything's falling apart, kind of. So we're going to talk about those different ways that it's happening. And then look at how it may have happened. And, you know, it's kind of stuff we've talked about over the years, but now it's like an all episode focusing on it. So we'll get started with this article. The context is what did you say it was described as like the monthly cover? I think it's that kind of story. Right. Variety is a big deal story. All right. Yeah, I mean, everyone knows variety. Variety is a big deal. And so I guess we'll just we'll just read it like so we'll go paragraph by paragraph, I suppose. This past September, a group of Marvel creatives, including Studio Chief Kevin Feige, assembled in Palm Springs for the studio's annual retreat. Most years, the vibe would have been confident, even cocky, given how the premiere superhero brand owned by Disney since 2009 has remade the entertainment business in its image. That's all fair and true. They would be pretty damn cocky, especially when they were fledgling when they started on the with Iron Man, right? It's like it's in danger of all of it collapsing. They built it all up only to now be at a different position, relatively speaking. I guess to make it easier to remember if rags goes next, we just go in left to right, left to right. Repeat. Oh, right. Let's see. Let me. All right, I was represent them up, but this occasion. I'm starting there, right? Yeah, that's correct. All right, I just make sure, just make sure, you know, want to make sure my ducks are in a row. But this occasion was angst ridden. I like that angst ridden. Everyone at Marvel was reeling from a series of disappointments on screen, a legal scandal involving one of its biggest stars in questions about the viability of the studio's ambitious strategy to extend the brand beyond movies into streaming. I can see legal scandal involving one of his biggest stars. Are they talking about Jonathan Majors? I thought for a second they might have been talking about the scandal with Scarlett Johansson back with Black Widow. Possibly, but I feel like because she wasn't poised to be like the new big villain of the next arc. And they were kind of done with it. Oh, you know, yeah, that's true. It's just because they said really from a series of disappointments on screen, just like, yeah, that's probably going all the way past end game, right? Anything past then really not including stuff like No Way Home. I guess Guardians 3. No, the thing you've got to remember is No Way Home, like Spider-Man is Sony. It is like a Marvel Studios thing kind of, but it is majority Sony. Well, it's worth mentioning every time almost because when I say Phase 4 and 5, it will be like, well, No Way Home's in there. And it's like, no, yeah, I know, but. Yeah, but No Way Home's not part of the because it's not No Way Home. Obviously, Across the Spider-Verse isn't part of the conversation because I was actually successful. Yeah. So when we talk about like money, profit regarding that movie, who makes the most? Columbia pays most of the bills and gets most of the money. That's kind of like the nature of the agreement. Remember, there was a time when it was kind of like on ice and they weren't sure what to do because I think Marvel wanted to negotiate to spend more money, but obviously make more money. But Sony didn't want to. The thing you've got to remember is Sony owns the rights to like Spider-Man films and that anything that happens between them and Marvel is like cooperation, but ultimately it's still theirs. They still have it. OK. So yeah. You may continue, Rags. All right. Where did that tab go? Oh, here it is. Sorry, I sometimes forget. The most pressing issue to be discussed at the retreat was what to do about Jonathan Majors, the actor who had been poised to carry the next phase of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, but instead is headed to a high profile trial in New York later this month on domestic violence charges. The actor insists he is the victim, but the damage to his reputation and the chance he could lose the case has forced Marvel to reconsider its plans to center the next phase of its interlocking slate of sequels, spin-offs and series around major's villainous character, Hang the Conqueror. One of the things I was thinking about this is if you split it all up into individual characters, events, locations and maybe even let's say movies, what is like the hardest thing to change in terms of a single elemental item of the MCU? And it might actually have been Jonathan Majors as Kang because take anyone else. If it was like, let's say Brie Larson killed a bunch of people, they'd be like, well, she's written out by, you know, I mean, like as much as it's difficult to square away the movie she's just done. But yeah, what are the other heroes? They can pick up the slack. It gets a little bit awkward when your film is called the Kang dynasty, you know, doesn't mean like they've done. They did it. Well, brother, this event happened right when they had like been like, here he is. And they were like, oh, shit. It's like the main thrust for Quantum Mania was Kang. Yeah, look at Kang. Look at Kang. Look at Jonathan Majors as Kang, specifically. Yeah, he agreed. Act as Kang and then this happens. And it's like they're right in the middle, right? If it happened a couple of years earlier, they could have changed their mind. If it happened a couple of years later or be over, it's like the worst possible timing. And yeah, to make what we're saying a little bit more understandable, right? The idea of they wouldn't just drop in anyone is not easy. Like, and there's levels of difficulty, but it just feels like he's one of the hardest ones to detach from the MCU. They just injected him everywhere. Yeah, they played him up really big. And he's supposed to be this overarching kind of thread between multiple films as the villain. He's the new Thanos. I suppose the thing is, is that because of the multiverse, if they played it more like Spider-Man had it, where the Spider-Man were played by different people, it's you could just easily be like, yeah, it's a different Kang. And that's why he's played by a different person. But like, for whatever reason, all of the Kang's that have been presented on screen have been played by him. I hear a lot of people say this is fine and easy because you can easily recast Kang. And I'm always sitting there thinking like, I mean, to an extent, you can recast anybody and do anything you want at all times because the writing is so fucking bad. But I mean, it's not, I feel like it's in stone that there's not multiple versions of Kang that look completely different. They all look like Jonathan Majors. And then of course, as the fact that everybody would act, everybody would know the real reason. It's like everybody's kind of aware of the reason why that's happening. And so in a sense, it's easy to do for anything because they can just do it like in a corporate sense. They can just be like, well, we're switching you out by. But I don't know, to me, I'm thinking of all the different elements and, you know, compare it like if Tom Holland, I don't know, went nuts and killed everybody. And just be like, well, new cast, new new new Spider-Man, and especially now is probably not too different. I mean, you know, it's not good to lose Tom Holland as a draw. But at the same time, they can cast someone else for the college years of Spider-Man in the MCU, right? Or if they move it wherever they could. They could. Oh, man. I mean, it would be tough. But maybe I don't know about that. I don't know. I'm more confident about it. I feel like there's plenty of good actors. And I think people would be able to people fucking love Spider-Man. But I think it's the connection that people have with really liking Tom Holland as that particular Spider-Man. It would be like replacing Tobey Maguire after Spider-Man 2. I think there's a lot of. Yeah, I think. No, yeah, that's the thing, though. There's this difficulty with all of them. I just don't know that any of them represent any kind of impossibility, but this one was incredibly awkward. Yeah, yeah. The reason I chose Captain Marvel and Spider-Man as counter examples is because they're like probably the equivalents, if there were. Maybe not Captain Marvel compared to Spider-Man, but it's like, what about Chris Hemsworth as Thor? It's like, is that easily replaceable? It's like, nobody fucking cares about Thor. I don't know what the hell's going on there. It's like, I wonder how difficult that would be. I don't know. I think we'd all be. I feel like that would be one of the more difficult ones. Well, maybe it would suck to get rid of him because he's probably the only draw left for a Thor story right now. I feel sorry for him right now. There's a lot of people who are very sympathetic towards him. I would say so. I mean, he's a likable guy and he's one of the few legacy actors who's still left. And a legitimately talented actor, too. He's quite talented. Oh, yeah. But then we, you know, passed that. Benedict Cumberbatch is Dr. Strange is one of the ones, I guess, that would be one of the few ones to lose him. But, you know, then then we're into characters that, you know, imagine they recast Cassie, Cassie Lang, you'd be like, oh, no. No one gives a shit. Oh, geez. How could you do that? So, you know, of their like 50 million new superheroes they've introduced, we could probably recast all of them. But the one that they've introduced recently ish, at least phase four and five being Jonathan Majors, it was awkward because he's been he's like a fully integrated right when they now don't even know if they want him fully integrated, which is just, you know, unfortunate for them. All righty, free. At the Gathering and Palm Springs, executives discuss backup plans, including pivoting to another comic book adversary like Dr. Doom, but making any shift would carry its own. Headaches. Majors was already a big presence in the MCU, including as the scene stealing antagonist in February. What's the media? Are you done? He stole all those scenes from you. He stole them. That's why they didn't make any money, because Kang stole the scene. And he has been positioned as the franchise's next big thing in this season of Loki, particularly in the finale, which airs on October 9th and sets up Kang as the star of the fifth Avengers film in 2026. Well, that's interesting because it means we've got a week to see if at least that portion of the article is just like ironclad. Yeah. I will say, again, bearing in mind, it's like, well, you know, this could not be true. But like if they actually were sitting there like, oh, but we could pivot to Dr. Doom, it's like this just speaks to how I feel like Marvel's doing. I don't think they know. It's like, I don't think that they I I really don't know that Marvel actually knows what's wrong with their films. I don't think they do either. No, I don't think that Marvel has the capability of like, OK, let's do let's get our checklist of things that we need to do to make a good movie. That checklist doesn't exist. That checklist for something else, it's it's gone. I think it's it never just comes down to maybe like the writing sucks. It's always like a variety of other things. Like there are too many of these films. Oh, yeah, the visual effects are pretty bad or they've got to connect better. It's the references. It's like the diversity with the the it seems like the stick because the trailer for Echo came out yesterday or the day before that. And it seems like, yeah, the stick for that seems to be ah, see, it's mature, it's violent. And it's just to me that feels like, yeah, right. But like, that doesn't mean anything to me. Yeah, the world's full of violent media. Like, I don't like, I would actually as part of our duty today, we won't be watching that trailer already. Oh, yeah, I haven't seen it. I haven't seen it either. I guess what I'm getting at is that because it felt like it was the same thing that happened with Secret Invasion, where they tried to pretend it was serious. And now you can see with the marvels that the attitude. And I imagine it's partly because of the response to Captain Marvel being dull and boring is this is a fun movie. It's a fun, wacky movie. It's a fun movie. It's fun, guys. Like there's always these kinds of strategies that seem to be employed with each of the films that speak to some like meta criticisms. But all of it is like, none of it addresses the fundamental, which is that the writing is just piss. It's bad. When was really bad? When was Marvel's last fun movie? What would you say the last fun movie was like that was actually fun? Yeah, this is complicated, though, because I think a lot of people say Guardians 3 and I'd be like. Guardians 3 was fun at times. But yeah, but it was. But there wasn't enough strong writing in there to make me walk out with a smile. I see a few people in chat saying Ragnarok. Which I think is a fair choice. But Infinity War was just like six years old at this point. Infinity War was really funny, but it was also one of the darkest, if not the darkest, entry in the whole MCU. Yeah, I wouldn't call Infinity War fun. So it probably is Ragnarok, audience to that kind of like, which again, yeah, six years ago. I guess I guess the title back when I see in the article, oh, yeah, what if we pivot to Doctor Doom? That'll fix things. It's just like you you you know, you know, they need to understand that that wouldn't solve anything is a multiverse, but an actual one where we could show them like, here's the inflection point. You chose Galactus in universe one. You chose Doctor Doom in universe two, Mephisto in universe three, Kang in four. And you show them all of them and they all fail. And it's like, wait a minute. How did that happen? How is that possible? Right, that should have worked. That they're like, were we supposed to bring back Obadiah Stain? You're like, no, what do you need to do? Obadiah Stain is fucking right, better. It's so simple. And of course, you know, the problem of the writing can be tied into other criticisms. I imagine that they're aware of, which is that the production, the way that these things are made is insane. They're made very quickly with incomplete scripts, with the writers having no idea how their stories connect to other things and seemingly just not being very good at their chops anyway. Like, yes, I don't know. So like, I imagine that if they made less stuff, that would probably just invariably help, but it wouldn't like fix the problem necessarily if there's no recognition of the thought in the writing based on like them having real talent and having produced real real movies. But I guess that's how it works. Well, we've talked about it before, but there's no world where like Steven Spielberg would make a Marvel movie because he'd want to make it his way. And like you kind of can't do that. Like when you make Marvel movies at the end of the day, it's it's got to slot into their universe, which seems like a small it legitimately seems like a small thing to ask considering how broad it is and how much stuff you can do with that. Just be like, hey, it's just it's part of a cinematic universe. It needs to slot in with the rest of the films in the series. But other than that, you can do whatever you want as long as it doesn't contradict anything else, especially if you gave him like the first entry of a new introduced hero that they're doing. Yeah, no, that's like that's I think it might be what ends up helping DC is that it seems like they might try to be more director oriented. But again, you still need them good scripts, you know, like have good scripts. Yeah, because at this point, the MCU feels like an anchor that every movie is going to have to either drag around with it or just forget about. And well, they usually opt to forget. Normally, they just forget it's it's definitely the buffet where they just pick out the sort of things that they want. And the rest they just ignore, which ultimately doesn't create, you know, a plausible cinematic universe. So quote Marvel is truly fucked with a whole Kang angle, says one top dealmaker who's seen the final Loki episode. And they haven't quote and they haven't had an opportunity to rewrite until very recently because of the WGA strike, which but I don't see a path to how they move forward with him. Yeah, that's very, I mean, they want to know that it's funny because we talk about all these potential decisions. But like the big thing is just they need to know the conclusion of the case itself, right? The event itself, whatever the fuck is going on with them before we can make any decisions. And that's hard enough. We have to wait, which is also very difficult when they're possibly in their most tumultuous era ever. And every decision now matters incredibly. Especially when you got to remember the broader consequences of the writers and actors strike is it's not just like Marvel stuff. It's a bunch of productions for all of the studios. They like that's that's delays. That's money that you're not making this year, but making next year, which is important like that shit matters to investors. It's yeah, it's it's a tumultuous time for the industry in general. Yeah, you know, all the covid stuff that happened, obviously the strikes, there's all kinds of let's call them third party events and elements that are crushing down on this thing that was already destroying itself. Yeah. Well, rags are up. Alrighty, beyond the bad press for majors, the Brain Trust at Marvel is also grappling with the November release of the Marvel's a sequel to 2019's blockbuster Captain Marvel that it has been plagued with lengthy reshoots and now appears likely to underwhelm at the box office. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You could say that you could say that that it looks like it's going to underwhelm with the box office. I was about to say that's that's a nice way to put it. I was like, no, no, no, actually, wait, because underwhelm is probably what it will do because it's not. We don't expect it to well at all. Nobody's expecting any whelming, so it will under that probably. Well, so if the projections are accurate, you know, long term, this actually end up being the first because like there isn't that doesn't that doesn't seem to be like a full acknowledgement of Ant-Man being like a flat out failure. It's definitely a disappointment, but like whether or not it is a failure is kind of like wishy-washy for whatever reason, even though. Which is already bad news. That's already bad. When we say failure, we don't mean in terms of meeting the expectations, which is really important, but just flat. Did it make in the way? Yeah. Yeah. Whereas the Marvel might actually be like the first true like bomb. It might actually be like a clean like bomb instead of, you know, oh, well, you can sit at this, can sit at this, it's like, no, no, no. There seems to be obvious. Yeah, like we spent a lot of money to lose a lot of money. Yeah, that it could lose money and that there's really you can't point to big like COVID. That's not that you can't use that blaming COVID. It's not an excuse for like a year plus now. You know, he cut. Yeah, though. No, no, there's so many movies that are based so much, buddy. Oppenheimer showed along. Well, surely the comparison would be no way home. That's the easiest one to be like in your own franchise with the superheroes. Like it's and as much as it's like, yeah, but it's Spider-Man. It's like, OK, it's still. Oppenheimer was 947. There was no Spider-Man in Oppenheimer. Was there the reason why it's relevant, though? The Spider-Man one is because Captain Marvel nearly made as much money as far from home, because that was back when Marvel movies were guaranteed to make a billion dollars to go from and it's interesting because Aquaman's probably in the same position. I still can't figure out how to make a billion dollars, but like it's probably in the same position where it's going to come out and it may well make less than half of the money that it made first time around. What's the devs in chat? Hello. I wouldn't be surprised at all. Hi, Dev. Hello. We're talking about the destruction of Disney. Yep. Wait, who's next? So how are how are we sitting on our week? Because we've kind of had a very soft running prediction for the Marvel's box office. I think fairly early on, I was a bit more pessimistic than most. And I was floating around as a as an estimate about a three hundred fifty million dollar number, which was low. I admit I I think, yeah, I think that at the time I was like the lowest in terms of the guesses amongst who we were with. But as months drag on, there was that element of like, oh, shit. Like that's not unreasonable. Um, I think I was at like five hundred million. That seems like that seems like it was too high. It's almost certainly going to make less money than that at this point. Yeah. For it, it has that might actually be a hyperbolic, but I'm pretty sure it has basically everything working against it. This is going to be so interesting because it's fucked like. And this is and this is after Dune moved out of the way. Dune was meant to come out. True. It's supposed to come out like last week. And it's going to all the IMAX screens. But the problem is that it's still competitive because it's November. Movies, movies are coming out right now. Like it's only going to have, I think that new. I think that new Hunger Games movies coming out the week after. But I don't think that film. No, I don't think people care about it. We'll see, though. But all those all the kids who watched Hunger Games, they're grown up now. They don't care. I feel like we're well past the era of the young adult action. The European Science Fiction Act. Yeah, let me let me actually double check the. So the numbers for this is the projection from the Hollywood Reporter for the Marvels was that it would earn 70 to 80 million in its opening week and in North America. We can thunder just said at least you have the dudes and call it duty. Did they release that as part of a promotion that couldn't stop it? Maybe they couldn't. Yeah, some of these some of these some of these things like the promotions for games are really they just they baffle me. I guess some doon makes a lot more sense because of the movie. And it was pretty big. Made a lot of money. And there's one going on because I play Apex Legends sometimes. They have a post Malone like skin sale that they're going to be doing. And I'm like, what the fuck? What is post Malone have to do? What? Whatever. Whatever. It's I don't this is whatever your supreme skins might be worthwhile to just for reference because I guess this is tangential to the article. So Hollywood Reporter, the this is so the tracking for the marvels was basically around about 75 to 80 million dollars domestic debut, which I believe is half of what Captain Marvel made in its opening weekend. Let me see a million is still a lot. It's a lot of money. But the problem is when you're spending over two hundred million dollars on production alone and you know, and you make most of your money in that opening weekend, especially for the for these types of like superhero movies, they make the ones that are not going to get a lot of people out there saying, yeah, you really got to go see the marvels. That keeps it like, again, Oppenheimer started kind of slow, but it got to nine hundred forty seven million because it just kept going. Oppenheimer was definitely like Oppenheimer had a really good opening, but it was definitely long term. Like that that was what carried it through was like talking about. I guess I guess this is the relevant information in terms of. Yeah, the last the last Marvel movie that didn't open a 70 million or more was Ant-Man one in 2015. The majority open to 100 million or more domestically. Eight movies made one hundred and fifty million dollars domestically in their opening weekend and compared to Guardians Three, which you saw that ended up opened to one hundred and six million domestic. So it's below that, obviously, which you go. Considering the capital of that is interesting. The marvels message me and said the Final Fantasy 14 had a fall guys crossover and have had multiple KFC cross. He plays the channel. I don't know. I hope so. Maybe he fries chocobos or something. Oh, my God. Yeah, either of you aware of what Marvel Entertainment, the YouTube channel did as promotion for the marvels, like I think two days ago. I saw the tweet. No, I'm not talking just about cats in general. This was a stream where there was clearly like three-ish people, maybe that would probably given a lot of money to set up a room and to paint or to put up things that made all of the windows and open doors, green screens so that they could put a space graphic in background that looked awful. And there was cats running around the room and they had a camera that just either auto followed or they had someone just looking at cats, just doing cat things. And then every like half an hour, they would have an unboxing where a person who comes on screen, you can't see their face. It's like cut to their neck. I wouldn't want my face in that either, to be like, fiddle with the boxes. They're like doing really weird hand gestures on all of the boxes, but to delay opening them as like long as possible and then eventually reveal like Captain Marvel Funko Pop. And then they just put cats on the table and make the cats walk around the Funko Pop. And they played like space music and it was so fucking creepy. Yeah, just like for lack of a better description, it's like a ethereal, almost like space-ish music. It was kind of just it was just fucking weird. OK, I think I know what you mean. And I caught like, I want to say 20 minutes of it. And I was just like, this is fucking pathetic. And they went down to 300 viewers at one point. And I was like, and there were people in chat. There was one message I sent to Gary, because it was so fucking cringy. It was some some account that just said, hooray, can't wait for the release of the Marvels. We're all very excited. Hooray. I was like, is that a human? Someone's check cleared. It just doesn't sound at all real. And I was like, fuck me, man. Like what is going on? I was like, did they is that part of the marketing budget? You paid for this? Like, how much did you pay for this? Really concerning part is that it probably wasn't even cheap. That's what I was thinking. Because you have to imagine it costs like 500,000 or something fucking absurd. They got to pay people to do it, to actually be the ones to do it. Then you have to pay all the people to set it up. Then you have to get the set. Then you have to handle all the cats and then you have to arrange the Funko this and that and all the deals with Funko Pop to do that. So I yeah, I don't know. It's strange, but it probably costs more than you think because there's always going to be a legal this. There's always going to be a advisory board and a supervision team. They often only comes up here and there, but like it's not just whether you have marketing. It's how good the marketing is. Exactly. You can have really bad marketing. We've talked before in the past they've been trailers for movies that have sold movies the complete wrong way. I think one of the more recent ones is the Dungeons and Dragons trailer. Made everyone think the movie was going to be absolutely terrible, but the movie itself is still getting praised to this day. Yeah, I've heard the movies are right, but the trailer was trash. The misrepresented it. It's like, fuck me. And you get you usually get that in the opposite where the trailer is really good. Then the movie's like really shit. You're like, oh, I'm next on it. Sure, this is an this is all an unprecedented turn of fortune for a company that has enjoyed a nearly uninterrupted string of hits ever since it started independently producing movies with 2008's Iron Man. That wildly profitable run culminated in the 2.8 billion dollar success of 2019 Avengers Endgame, a high watermark for the studio that has earned nearly 30 billion dollars over 32 films. I just like that there's multiple ways that we can analyze it that it goes from Iron Man to Endgame and then something else happens is like that, even though it's not true. Like the loads, people would say that's what the story ends. Like, no, it ends at Infinity War, right? That's what everybody should probably choose. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, OK, but that's the last time they had like a huge profit. And it's like, I don't know. A home is still kind of not like it doesn't go to them, but it's still in terms of a movie making loads of money and having a cultural impact. It's like, it's not just stops at Endgame. And also, you know, Multiversive Madness was successful. Yeah, it was quite successful. Maybe not as successful as they were. Maybe they were hoping it was going to be just over a billion, but it was certainly successful. I mean, Thor, Love and Thunder was technically successful. Technically, Black Panther were kind of forever was technically successful, though, again, that one also made considerably less than the first one. Yeah. And no one talks about it. No one talks about any of these movies. They just they are they are, you know, smoke in the wind. They just pass away. What would be really cool is to take your average sort of huge Marvel fan and just be like, name me all the projects of Phase Four and see there's going to be the types that could name it all instantly. But there's also people who are like, oh, wow. It was is what kind of forever. My people that I forget to say, just because it's so. Well, I think some people would say quantum mania and you'd be like, no, that's fine. You'd be like, oh, all right, right, right. And it's right. Wait, Wakanda forever was the last to Phase Four? Yes. Oh, that was a lot. Well, obviously, because the the line between Black Panther 2 and quantum mania was so clear. It was such a like a great handoff between phases. Yeah, it's like, I don't know something happened at the end of that. I don't know. I don't know. There's no no sense that we've moved from one phase to another. Seen a bunch of people in chapter like, hooray, I'm watching EFAP today. Hooray. Yeah, they should say that. Good on you. You know, those are genuine. Yeah, you know, right, guys? Yeah, OK, so replicating that kind of phenomenon is never easy. However, the source of Marvel's current troubles can be traced back to 2020. Arguably, you could trace back way further. But that's OK. That's when COVID pandemic issued in a mandate to help boost Disney's stock price with an endless torrent of interconnected Marvel content for the studio's fledgling streaming platform Disney Plus. According to the plan, they would never be elapsed in superhero fair with either a film in theaters or a new television series streaming at any given moment. You can tell that there's loads of these weird handoffs like Loki to the Marvels is the newest one, obviously. And it's just like, what are you doing? Like the one was it the same day that the penultimate episode of Mando came out with Rise of Skywalker? They were going to do this with Star Wars as well. Yeah, the penultimate episode of Mando introduced Force Healing, which helps justify it in Rise of Skywalker, according to their insane brains. That's how that works. And it's interesting because the the talk of lots and lots of because I remember I read another article down my camera, but what it was from is one of these trades that was talking about how following the radish strike, there is absolutely going to be less scripted television shows that like the era of the last, you know, five, six years where there's been an absolute like torrent of scripted, high budget television shows for like streaming platforms and cable that that is definitely going to be winding down partially because I guess the broader thing is that not all of these streaming services are going to survive. A lot of them, I mean, Disney's already looking to buy Hulu, right? Oh, they have Disney Plus itself isn't doing hot at all. Disney had partial ownership of Hulu, but now they're going to get full ownership. I guess it's it's like is there space for Paramount Plus or Peacock or I think Peacock's in huge trouble. I think they've lost a shit ton of money. I don't know. Was there a single fucking high level executive that instead of looking at the pandemic years as an all time high that was obviously going to shrink, like seemingly all of them looked at it as like year one of an exponentially growing force. Well, that's like the people with like DoorDash and all of that. It's the same thing. They got a huge boost from that kind of that entire sector of the market from, you know, the people not going out and ordering in. And now here we are. And it's like good luck turning a profit if it's even possible to turn a profit with that kind of a business now. Because we're seeing as well that the tech sector is starting to contract lots of layoffs are happening as well because there was a tremendous amount of growth in the tech sector. And people are going back outside. Also, yeah. And as some people were saying in chance, like, I'm aware that that's what you want for a company, but you have to recognize the like the streaming numbers didn't there's no there's no like, oh, we earned X in this year, the pandemic year next year is going to be X times two and times three. And it's like, no, no, you need to account for the fact that this is going down. Should have treated it like a gift. Yeah, something that I've been thinking about a lot, which I guess, you know, we could talk about more later on is the I don't I when I when I wonder if Marvel is doomed. What I wonder is if they're at like a point where they can't really fix these problems, it's kind of like they feed into each other. So it's like a negative feedback loop. So like, for instance, one of the criticisms is that Marvel productions look cheap and bad when they're not cheap. They're not cheap. The only way and so the only way you can fix that problem is where you've got to spend more money. Surely you've got to spend. You either got to spend more money or cut back on the scope. But like, where are you going to get that money from? Are you going to pay the actors less? Because if you pay the actors less, I would imagine that some of them would be like, well, I'm not very interested in being part of this series. I'm not going to get paid a lot of money. Like what is the kind of thing that would motivate someone to be part of Marvel rather than essentially do something that they would consider like more valid? I guess is like as a means of expression. You know what I mean? Like, like it I imagine that a big incentive to do Marvel films is you get paid a lot of money, but that there would be other things that a lot of these actors would rather be doing in terms of creativity. And so it's like you're going to pay them less. That's probably not like viable, but you're making less money. So where are you going to get the money from? Anyway, do you know what I mean? Like, I wonder if it's even like the kind of thing that you can actually reverse actor in strikes as well. And that's right. I mean, like Hemsworth is saying, like, he'll only do another Thor movie if they fucking treat his character seriously or else he's just out. He's doing his own thing. It's like, I'm going to go make Extraction 3 or any other movie that I'm going to do. Extraction 4, which by the way, it's like I'm unironically, I was like, hey, Extraction 3, I'm all for it. Yeah, you keep doing it, man. Something that I wonder in terms of exacerbating because I'm seeing people say one more time, it's like, yeah, but part of the problem is I'm pretty sure that they still Disney wants Deadpool 3 to come out in May. That film is half finished. Absolutely. They haven't finished shooting that film and they still want it in man. It's like, you know why the reason for that is the reason why is because I want to make some fucking money. But like, like, I don't know if they're going to actually want to take time when they've just spent three months not making anything. Like, you know what I mean? I wonder if that's going to further exacerbate the problems as well. I have to use the loo. I'll be right back, so just let you know. No problem, though. He was next. So I guess it goes to you again, Fringy. I would just loop back around. Deadpool 3 got delayed. Is it delayed? Am I going to look it up on Wikipedia right now? I assume part of your point, Fringy, was that it's inevitably going to be delayed. Like it was it's inevitably going to be delayed. But the fact that they don't want to delay it and they'll probably only delay it by a few months because they want it out. They want to get it out. Yeah, it's still it's still scheduled for the third of May. So yeah, I don't know. Anyway, but the ensuing tsunami of Spandex proved to be too much of a good thing. So we talk about and the demands of churning out so much programming tax the Marvel apparatus. Well, that's true. Moreover, the need to tease out an interwoven storyline over so many disparate shows, movies and platforms created a muddled narrative that baffled viewers. Yeah. So this is like the kind of point that I would point to is, yeah. So if this is what they actually believe, then I don't know that they'll probably fix the problem because it's not the fact that they're trying to tease out an interwoven story over many disparate shows. It's actually that none of them are even talking to each other. Yeah, no, no. Everything shows are aware of each other. They contradict each other. Like it's it's not it's not overly complicated because it's so intricate and so well formed and you need to be paying attention to every you pay attention to every detail. It breaks. It just keeps breaking. The way you build something like this, they've made it seem almost impossible. And a lot of people talk about it that way. It's like, oh, it's an inevitability that would fall apart so big. And so you control for the big and created scary variables. But the rest is mostly straightforward. When you have like you just need to keep creating scenarios where in a bubble, your character can do and say anything. And it wouldn't affect anything anywhere else. It's it all lines up in continuity. When it's like, you know, I want to say Loki, because it's too difficult to fix and shouldn't exist. But WandaVision, that was probably going to be fine. You don't that doesn't need to affect any when you have a big magical event happening in this small town. It's like, OK, so you have I don't know how much time before the police should be notified. It's probably going to be, you know, anywhere between days and two weeks or something. That's like the timeline we'd be allowing for because there's people in that town that will now not be able to contact loved ones. And then the police will be made away. So like I said, probably days. And then when the police are there, that means the more and more people around the world will get to know it. And that's when Doctor Strange has to be called in. He's the magic supreme man and it's a magic event. But this is kind of what I'm trying to get at is like, what by being in the MCU will be needed to be taken care of by having a story of a witch or whatever the fuck going mad and creating an illusory state in a small town in the middle of America. It's like, well, probably those things. That's that's the thing you have to stick to. And then you're fine. You can make anything happen in that dome, anything really, as long as it's not like, you know, breaks the universe. And that's kind of what I'm getting at. They treated as though if they collect all of the discontinuity that would exist at this point and lay it out in the sheet, they'd be like, look at this impossible. And it's like, yeah, but all of these things were done one by one by idiot writers who didn't remember they needed to take care of it. That's all. Well, yeah, because I would say that again, I still don't think this speaks to the core of the problem. But I think a more apt argument would be that there is actually a lack of forward momentum that it's unclear where things are heading. Not that it's getting too complicated to follow, but rather that very little has been achieved over the course of several films because they have their story that contradicts other stories, but doesn't really connect to them either. Like it doesn't build anything for them. It only builds its own stuff while breaking other things. And now how many a dozen projects later is anything really any closer to culminating in big, relevant crossover stories? I don't know about that. I just I don't like the idea that it's confusing because there's a lot of it. It's confusing because it doesn't make any sense. It's fucked. It's it's bad. It's just badly written. But I can definitely. But I mean, the idea that having to make this much stuff tax the Marvel apparatus, I mean, obviously. Yeah, like it's stretched in and it holds true always. Well, even even the current state of either Star Wars or Doctor Who or the MCU, you could still repair it back. You always can. Yeah, you can. But I don't think they will. I don't think you might be able to say I don't think they can. Like it's possible for the for Marvel, too. But again, for as long as they think, oh, it's the bad CGI. That's a problem. It's that there's too many that there's too many, not how they're made, but that there's too many of them and it's confusing people. As long as this is like the the attitude that they have, I don't think that they're going to fix the problem. There's a lot of crushing forces that will prevent them from doing so. But if there was like a 0.01 percent chance of them doing it, it would just be like knuckling down and making a really solid movie and then slapping it into the MCU. And it doesn't even might even contradict some stuff. But as long as it's really good, you'll be like, wow, that was good. And then you're like, all right, all right, we've we've got a spark there. There's some people who are like, that one was good, that one. And then if you make another one, you'll be like, OK, I like. And then if it's a character that was in both of those movies, that's new, but I like that character. I got getting there. Got a got a cheap chipping at it. I was thinking as well, like enough with the goof, we've got to start going serious again. Yes, but not not what I did with Secret Invasion, where they pretend to be serious, but it's still a clown show. Like, you know, close to something like Iron Man One, where it takes itself serious, it's still got, you know, the the comedy and it's still got the laughs and it's it's still got like just the cool factor. But it is trying to tell a story about a character going on an arc. Because, you know, like if it was really well written, but also a comedic romp, I'd be like, OK, that's fine. But like, we should probably start making this have some serious entries against that people can maybe think about this on a more significant level, then, la, la, la, la, la, it's just a clown show, even if it is well written comedy. Because I was thinking, like, you know, who would you who would you bring? Fringy, who would you be bringing in to fix this villain wise? I assume we'd be getting rid of Kang anyway, because he's so sad. So like if the wizard told me, you've got to get rid of Kang, you need to find someone else as a. But the he gets to be, I say he, she, I guess, if so, was preferred. I can't think of any. Yeah, but who would you want to bring in yourself? Who would I personally want? And I guess baked into it is that they're actually going to be like a great villain, well written and everything. Yeah. It's a good question. I'd want I'd want doom or I think I'd want Magneto. I'd want to I'd want to go in one of those two directions. Beginning of X. I would almost want to earn the X men. And what I mean by that is like, I'm going to try and repair everything. I'll cut a few things out. But yes, I'd want to go with doom as well. And I'd want the first time we meet him, he's going to have to kill one of the main adventures. You've got to do the same thing that they did with Thanos before they undid everything. His first scene has been killing Loki and then he killed Heimdall and then he killed like a picture, like a good old fight with maybe Avengers style music happening, but slowly like they're all losing. And then this the soundtrack cuts out and then yes, you kill one of them. You got I think that's the yeah, you've got to make him threatening. You've got to have him because it's as been pointed out. The fact that Kang got defeated by Ant-Man, pretty easily, honestly, is not great in terms of making him intimidating. But imagine if imagine if he just showed up and he killed like one of the Avengers and it was easy. It wasn't even that difficult for him. Or he has a really, really effective and scary army that can do that sort of thing that he commands and controls. Like if you it's like, oh, like what if Stormtroopers were actually like lower accurate, shall we say, you know, if they were like really scary and when a Stormtrooper shows up when a Star Destroyer shows up you're like, oh, fuck, we have to go now. Like this is actually a terrible thing to have. I'm I'm chill with armies, but I'd always prefer it when they have like lieutenants and they kind of did that with Infinity War and then waste them an end game, right? Like the I agree. Yeah, the I forget their names, but I remember them like as, you know. Yeah, many bosses, you know. Love any of us kind of the this was one of the reasons why Worf in Star Trek kind of gets an unfair shake with a lot of people who think that he's kind of a pushover because so often in episodes Worf would be the one who gets tossed around by the big evil villain of the episode. But it was to establish that well, if this this bad guy, this force can take on Worf and beat him up, then, you know, he means business. Worf was just the unfortunate recipient of that kind of an establishment of stakes. Did you know that Worf is the most he has the most occurrences in all Star Trek? What does that mean? He's in more Star Trek episodes and shows. I think he has there's more Worf than anyone else. And so I think it's like occurrences, some kind of Star Trek thing, like incursions or something. I mean, I would add on the villain side is it's one of Marvel's biggest problems is they keep killing off their villains. I would I think if I was if I got to do it over again, there'd be a lot of villains I would keep around. But moreover, if we were going with the angle of doom, I'd want the lieutenants, you know, enforcers or whatever to be like other villains so that it all kind of like that you can get them and have them as elements that is kind of manipulating behind the scenes that all lead up to him. And it shows progress towards working towards the main villain where killing one of his lieutenants is like we've we've beat a miniboss. We have made progress, you know, forwards, you know, like that's a big. Because like you imagine it would just be like, I don't know, like doom, highest taskmaster, but actual taskmaster to get something for him. And then he encounters one of the heroes and then that's like how you set up a bit of a thread of is there something that's being worked towards here, but keep taskmaster around, you know, so that you have to go later. You know, I'm thinking about with the lieutenants thing, building up to the main boss is Arby and the Chief. I forget which season is. Yeah, I love that sense of progression, taking them all out one by one and then going for the king sort of thing. Yeah, no, it's great. And I mean, one of the cool things that you did was that when they actually go for the big bad, they take him out like pretty easily. Yeah, it's nice. Subversive. The point being that it's like it's just a good narrative structure to employ of working up towards something grander, but getting all of those other people to be characters themselves that represent different, you know, different, different angles that you can go with. But it's like beating Saruman, like it's a big deal to win at Helm's Deep to defeat Saruman and his army and everyone's like, oh, we get a bit of a we get a little bit of a break here. We get a little bit of breath. We did a good job. We've made progress and that's still the big evil guy to go. But like we're clearly we've made some progress here. That's why I'm chill with with armies as well. Because you remember a resident evil village. I like the lieutenants aspect in that. It's just we also felt they were wasted in a lot of ways. But, you know, if you have one that's like a big brawler than another one that's not really powerful, kind of really intelligent and has a bunch of puppeted like creatures that it'll send at you. And it's like, oh, that's a way to implement armies in some ways. Because remember, we got that in Infinity War. We had, you know, Squidward, you know, we had the he wasn't really martial, but he had the telekinesis powers that he is very effectively. Then we had the others who were like they were fighters, you know, they had weapons they could leap around and jump up and down and they'd fuck you up, you know, and they had epic edge names like Corvus Glaive and Proxima Midnight. That's right. They got edgy names. Those are those are pretty. I would call obsidian. Proxima, Squidward was the best one now. Name wise, even though it's not his name, but it is now. What about what was the what was the what's Darth Maul's brother, Savage, a press? Always come back to him. He's always waited there. He's chef's kiss. What a beautiful name. I think his parents set him up to be a villain. I don't even blame him. Somehow out of the four, I think I do like Ebony more the most. Yeah, I think I like that one the most. All right, anyway, I guess it's back to me. Well, yeah. Well, the Marvel machine was pumping out a lot of content. Did it get to the point where there was just too much and they were burning people out on superheroes? It's possible, says Wall Street analyst Eric Handler, who covers Disney. Well, the more you do, the tougher it is to maintain quality. They tried experimenting with breaking in some new characters like Shang-Chi and the Eternals with mixed results with budgets as big as these, you need home runs. Kind of we've certainly discussed the Marvel, the superhero fatigue. That's that's popped up more than a few times over the years. And I think it really does come down to the fact that if they were good, there would be no fatigue. I don't think so. When you know, like the more you do, the tougher it means to me. It's like I do agree, but like I don't I feel like they fumbled hard. Like this was ridiculous. I mean, to go, I mean, I don't know that I've seen a streak this bad in terms of quality ever of just releasing like 12 projects that with one outlier, like we're like twos, threes and some of them ones out of 10. That's unbelievable by Aston and other sleeper. It's their entire process of picking who makes these things. That's just totally fucked. I mean, when we talk about, let's see, what was it back in the kind of fifties to seventies, there are all the shows like Gunsmoke, Bonanza, Little House on the Prairie. It was super, at least in the United States, Westerns were everywhere. Always Westerns, Western movies, Western shows. It was the age of the Westerns and slowly, but surely they started to kind of die out. They turned into like cop procedurals and things of that nature. But I don't think that that shift happened because people started getting. I don't think that all the Westerns were just like shit all of a sudden and people started hating them. I think it's just, oh, this is a thing that's also happening. And then it's just more of a like a more organic kind of healthy shift to a different sort of thing. Yeah, it's a lot of collapse in three years. Like, yeah, yeah, it's not like, yeah, you didn't just get three years of horrifically bad, uninteresting characters and stories that make people just yearn for anything else. Marvel's reign could have been longer. I think it would have ended no matter what. But like they they killed it themselves so much sooner than it had to die. I, oh, yeah, I totally think so, absolutely. If they would, like I said, if it was just if it was just banger after banger, if like half of their movies were good, not even great, good. If we're talking six, seven out of tens and that was half their movies, they could keep trucking along and we'd keep watching them and probably enjoying them. Yeah, yeah, let me on the six and seven say fun. Yep. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, what was our like underwater, right? Like the quintessential like six out of ten or whatever. We're just like, oh, this is neat. I really enjoyed that. I'm glad I watched it. Not to be the I hate rags guy, but the dog is annoying and has zero insight. True. True. Luckily, I got these two guys to carry me through to victory. Unfortunately, I have seen that. It is now your turn to talk rags. All right, let me see. The Marvels, which opened in theaters on November the 10th, will struggle to get the ball past the infield, at least by Marvel's outside standards. For those of you in the chat, that is a baseball analogy. Do you have heard about baseball? Baseball is what's an analogy. Oh, an analogy is like a thing that's like a thing, but not quite that thing. Oh, it's great. That means they didn't hit the ball very far. They didn't even get the ball to the outfield, which is further away from the batter than the infield. All right, just want to make sure everyone's up to speed on the base. There's some insight for you. There you go. The movie, which cost two hundred and fifty million dollars and sees Brie Larson reprising her role as Captain Marvel is tracking to open to seventy five to eighty million dollars far below the one hundred eighty five million Doctor Strange in the multiverse of madness took in domestically in its debut weekend last year. Yeah, like, I mean, there's there's there's no anything to deal with. That is cope. There's no getting around that. That's also dramatic. There's got to be some kind of profound depressing experience to be an actor or actress is going through all of these different films in your career. There's some indie, some of this, some of that. And then you're like, you know, someone says like, we've made like, we got a million on this thing that, you know, maybe it costs like a hundred thousand. So I was like, oh, wow. And then like your your Brie Larson, you complete this film several times because of reshoots. You don't know what the fuck's going on. You don't even know if you have a career with with Marvel after this. And then someone says, like, you're on track to make eighty million on the first day. That's terrible. Like, OK, it is all right to where seventy five to eighty million dollars isn't good enough. Like, that's still a good amount of money. But yeah, when you're spending two hundred and fifty million dollars on production alone, not including marketing. That's not good enough. It's just the the the super mega bloat of a lot of this stuff is. Well, let's take a move. What was the we saw? Saw X recently, allegedly. What was the budget of saw X? Was that like a million bucks? Yeah. And it it never felt cheap. I mean, remember, right? Like, it's because it's interesting to think about because saw cost a million dollars to make and made over a hundred million. I mean, you go further back than that. Rocky, like, I didn't Rocky make like ten thousand times his budget. I can double check and I think so. Like, Rocky was really. Yeah, because Rocky had a production budget of nine hundred and sixty thousand dollars and made two hundred and twenty five million dollars. It did. Geez. Rocky, two made two hundred million. Rocky, three made two hundred seventy million. Rocky, four made three hundred million. Rocky, five made one hundred twenty million. Rocky, Balboa one fifty six million. And then Creed, Creed, two and Creed, three made one seventy four million to fourteen million. Oh, Creed, three made two hundred and seventy five million. It's three. The one where he fights Jonathan Mages. I think so. Yeah. But I guess it's interesting to look at the kind of money that these projects make, because it's not. It's not about how high the box office number is. The return on the investment is the is the most important metric. And on the other side, it's not about being expensive. It's about not looking cheap. Oh, yeah, dude, I watched the movies that made us for Halloween. And apparently, like, of their very limited budget they spent, I think they spent something like 40 percent of it on a camera. And they said, like this camera, I forget the name of it, is going to make the movie not look cheap. That's like the whole point. One hundred percent Halloween doesn't look cheap because all of us know children of the nineties that we are. And in the 2000s, this kind of holds true. That cheapy like there's just that camera. Yeah, you're like, oh, this looks like a nineties. I don't even say like a nineties sitcom. But like this looks like a cheap movie. It opens up. You get your first scene and you're like, oh, this is not. This is a movie that's going to look like this the whole time. It just it has this cheap look to it. That's kind of the funny thing, though, isn't it? Because like cheapness or lack thereof, Joker had a budget to fit. You know, we're keeping in the realm of comic book movies. Joker had a budget of 50 million dollars. That film doesn't look. It looks better than Ant-Man and the Lost Quantum Mania, which costs four times as much money. The well, we can keep we can keep it to our rated superhero movies. Right. Oppenheimer. That movie is a hundred million dollar budget. And it looks fantastic. And think about how good it looks and the fact that it's all period appropriate, thirties to like fifties stuff, all the sets, all of the costumes, outfits, ever. It looks totally you totally. Oh, you know what? No. And it's a million. I'm so glad. I'm so glad you brought up Oppenheimer because any time I think it's a relatively well-known factoid that a lot of the cost took less money than they would typically take for a film because of the desire to, you know, have a certain budget for Oppenheimer and because they were really passionate about making the film. How many how many Marvel actors would happily take a dramatic pay cut in order to be a part of these films? That's kind of like what I was talking about before in terms of them being doomed. I don't know how many actors would be willing to be like, you know, I believe in this story so much that I'm willing to take less than half of what I would typically ask for because I like this movie. I don't think that would ever happen. I mean, the ones that might, I mean, for instance, let me ask you this. Do you think that because we've mentioned him before, do you think Chris Hemsworth would take half the money if he was assured and confident that the next Thor movie would be very respectful to Thor as a character and treat him well? Oh, if he got a short of that, probably. But because I think he will guarantees. Yeah, but if if he believed it to be the case, you know, I feel like he would. But maybe it's just because we're so we just live in a world where actors get paid these just insane sums of money. What I'm saying, they do or don't deserve her. That's a good or bad thing. That's just the way that, you know, it often is on the sort of low budget scrappy stuff. Another thing about Halloween, the shot in, you know, sort of iconic, I guess we call it iconic when the kid is moving through the house, gets the mask and then does the does the stuff that that was done with a camera that had a I believe something like for each take they could only they had a maximum of three minutes because it was like a camera. I forget that I don't want to get the name wrong of it, but, you know, like you walk with it and it's one of the it was a lower budget one. It was the best they could get. And so basically they wanted to one take where they were following the kid or cord cord less, I think. Point is that like the they were limited to the point of having a steady cam would be it. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe it could only hold so much like actual like film. Yeah, like it was limited to that point. It was just out of film and they had to come up with a way to have a cut and they did it with the the kids, so to speak, in that scene, picking up a mask and putting it on. And so the swipe down with the the mask was they were able to chop together the two full takes of the one and then I was like fucking stuff like that's so cool when there's so hyper limited extreme ways by technology and then they come through and make something that like people remember forever and to read a super chat ahead of time. You just said you just accidentally revealed the next Halloween arc, which is the Halloween films. I revealed nothing, nothing at all. You know what? Speculate all you want. Definitely. That's that's totally our next arc is how you got us. You sure did get us. Good. Good job. You figured it out. All right. Yeah, you did it. Yeah, the funny thing is like we keep it secret. There's no real reason we do. We have mentioned we've mentioned a plenty of Halloween movie. We've talked about we've seen spooky movies before. Like we see them. Yeah. Anyway, who's next? What's happening? I am like bringing something. Yeah, directed by Ned Dacosta, the Marvels, Unites, Larson's heroine with two super powered allies, Teyona is a Teyona Paris, Monica Rambo, introduced in twenty twenty one Disney Plus series WandaVision and Iman Valani's Kamala Khan first scene in the twenty twenty two series Miss Marvel. But instead of seamlessly building on the success of Captain Marvel, this movie resulted in four weeks of reshoots to bring our coherence to a tangled storyline. It's kind of weird now that I think about it, of the three heroines one is Captain Marvel, the other is Miss Marvel and the other is Monica Rambo and it's called The Marvels. Is she going to be called? Photon in this? Well, because it's I have no idea. No idea. But that's the name of the character right now. Yeah, like again, that's kind of part of the problem, right? As people don't really know who these characters are. And this one really was this is part of the list of things working against them. Just like this is not good, guys. So we don't know what the fuck's going on. Well, I mean, I find the premise bizarre. You'll it is a very strong which places. That's a weird premise for a movie. But like, you know, and if every no heroes are died and we were really healthily going along in the middle of the MCU's phase three, we had a movie where Doctor Strange, Iron Man and Daredevil were going to team up. You could easily come up with a name that sort of recognizes that trinity of, you know, street level, low tech combat with super high tech billionaire man and then magic man. It's like, oh, that's interesting. And they all have their hero names. And it's like, that would generate shit tons of hype. And the combination is so cool. None of that is working for this. People don't even know what these people are. Especially if the idea is that they're meant to be essentially. It's kind of interesting that you point that out. Having characters who have very disparate sort of power sets and putting them together is kind of interesting compared to putting together characters with similar power sets. And the quintessential fantastic four. They're all totally different. Oh, yeah, of course, man. And X-Men, they've all got X-Men. Yeah. And again, X-Men has because it's something that I really like. I think it's one of the things that X-Men's always had working in favor of it is that it's not like strictly beneficial necessarily. A lot of these powers, there's usually unless you storm. Storm basically has like the best power. You can just control the weather. It's kind of incredible. Yes. But like that people majority of them have some kind of like trade off that's, you know, like Cyclops can shoot lasers out of his eyes. But he also can never not shoot. Did you know, you know, Wolverine has like Adamantium claws, super fast regeneration, but he's Canadian. Yeah, you have to have drawbacks. It hurts, but you know, there's that. But also that he outlived and outlasts everybody that he cares about. I forget where I read this now. And that's why I want to be like careful saying it because it's very mean, if not true. But I'm pretty sure it's true. And I wonder if you've ever heard of it for me. But Halle Berry getting convinced to. Oh, yeah, I heard about this. Be a part of just be a part of X-Men 3 or is it something else? I think so again, I think it was that she there were stipulations that she wanted in the story to be a part of X-Men 3. And they said, yeah, we'll do that and then didn't. But that's I don't know if that's true. I've heard about this though. Yeah. Well, so the story that I heard, don't know if true, was that there was going to be a scene where she provided a shit ton of rain to like certain African countries or whatever. So like, which sounds awkward and clunky as a scene in terms of trying to that might be kind of something you don't want to go near with storm because it'll make you ask a lot of questions about her, right? Like, should she be heading to every bad weather event and undoing it and then moving things to other things? But as far as I'm aware that something like that was promised and then it wasn't at all done. Yeah, that seems like the kind of thing that could get them in legal trouble if they had signed off on it and she didn't get it. That's what loopholes are for. I think the idea would be that you can always say, yeah, but I mean, there's changes in the script. That's always a part of the process of filmmaking. So, you know, but like I said, I don't know how true that is. But I did hear about that. Yeah. But yeah. But she didn't get to be Catwoman. So, you know, this really is like a weird team up movie, isn't it? Compared to like other team ups that would be more interesting to say. Two people I don't know anything about. And one person that I just like it's a crazy thing to think about. That this is kind of the first movie of this kind. The others will have guest stars. This feels like a team. You know how there's loads of teams in across Marvel Comics's history, right? Where different characters got together. Yeah. And it was a cool thing in the in Ultimate Alliance and probably other games where if you made your squad comprised of a particular team from the comic books, you get a bonus, it would be like a plus something toward and it's whatever that team did. And it's just like, oh, sweet reference and tangible benefit. And yeah, this is just like this is the first one. It's like, this is the team, the Marvels. It's like, what do you? Oh, and then, of course, bearing in mind that the second one is the Thunderbolts comprised primarily of just people who are like super soldiers or normal people. Does it not feel like the Thunderbolts in the MCU listings are basically comprised of what's the word for this? When you are creating a product like byproducts. Yeah, the byproducts of other films. And they're like, they should be called the byproducts. Like it's a team name. It's all they have left because I killed off a lot of the other villains that they could have as a team. They should have called them the expendables. The thing is, like, why aren't they just more like if it's really hard and expensive to get team up movies for whatever reason, why not just do what Deadpool, even though, you know, we'll see how I feel about it when it comes out. The leftovers would be a great team name for the leftovers. But, you know, why isn't there just like your buddy team up movies like Deadpool and Wolverine going on an adventure? But, you know, like you do it with other characters. I mean, an obvious pairing is Daredevil and Punisher, which I mean, they they did. The problem is, I don't even know how much of that's going to be canon, whatever they bring forward, whatever the hell they got to do with that show anyway. But like, why aren't there more of those sort of pairings? When you want to, I know it's so much to ask because we had we had a lot of Iron Man anyway. The the nature of having Iron Man and Doctor Strange having we got a little bit of it, but like a whole movie with them fucking hating each other and by the end working together to defeat maybe the Mandarin or something. Yeah, technology once magic. They both have clashing personalities, but they're both good people at heart. And so we get to see them, you know, develop. That's like something interesting and the actual Mandarin not whatever the fuck. No, not not goober, Mandarin, Mandarin, Man 3. OK, anyway, then eyebrows were raised again when DeCosta began working on another film while the marbles were still in post-production. The filmmaker moved to London earlier this year to begin prepping for her Tessa Thompson drama, Heather or Heather, maybe a representative for DeCosta declined to comment. I've seen a few people say this is normal. I don't know if I buy them. Maybe it is. Maybe it is. It's complicated, right? It is normal. Is that part of the problem? Something we know as a it's I'm not to say fun fact. It's complicated. While working on Schindler's List, Spielberg was editing Jurassic Park, right? That's true. Yes. Because I came out a year or part to that might work if you're fucking if you're Steven Spielberg. Well, that's the thing. Well, I guess the thing would be, do you because you could think about it was Quentin Tarantino in any way, shape or form an active pre-production. One of his films while he was like editing one of his other films. You know, is that something that he's ever done? It's I guess all I want to say is just that like we don't know the context exactly of this, but it's not. I don't think it could ever be seen as a plus, you know. Yeah. Well, I mean, because I mean, I Steven Spielberg would have been working like 1820 hours a day, probably like with all of that. And he's Steven Spielberg. He is Steven Spielberg. He's kind of the person most associated with film. Yeah, I don't know. There's there's just a certain vibe there where it's like, hmm, just doesn't seem like that's the way to do it. But, you know, let's see. I was finished because this first one short. If you're directing a 250 million dollar movie, it's kind of weird for the director to leave with a few months to go, says a source familiar with the production. And that there's a lot of weight on the word leave. It depends on what that means. Exactly. Because like how involved is she or she just gone? I mean, I got to imagine that she's still someone involved. Right. But I was not. I was actually going to go both directions with that on that. That on one hand, on the other hand, it's Marvel. Maybe she is just out, you know, like, because they don't need her. They're like, you're done. You're casting job. We're good. We you've shot the movie sort of. We'll take it from here, which is weird. But well, and she recently said in an interview that that is damn, I'm pretty sure that I saw something where she basically said, even as the director, you're not like fully in charge on a Marvel production. Yeah. Oh, damn, let me see what. Well, some people say she left before shooting was completed as well. Really? Oh, oh, if that's true, of course, yeah, there's more. But again, this to be fair, this is probably not any would any different than how they've made most of their phase four and five stuff. Probably. Yeah, this might just be the first time we hear about it. Well, it's not even really, is it? Like the directors have not felt very directory with a lot of their films from what we get. The piece of information. Well, yeah, that's OK. So, damn, let me see if I can find it. Oh, so she's the quote was it's a Kevin Feige production. It's his movie. I think you live in that reality, but I tried to go in with the knowledge that some of you is going to take a back seat. It's just an interesting. I mean, not a great attitude to have if you're the director. It was going to be the one to decide who's creative, you know, elements, you know, come in. There was a there was a comment of, like, you know, like viral tweets about how we need to start letting the artists, you know, take full control and all that stuff. And it's just like, I'm pretty sure, if not full control, close to it, got us love and thunder and it got us a soca, right? These are projects created by creators that basically got everything they wanted. Maybe they didn't care, or maybe they have something that we don't tend to agree with in terms of what they want. It's just like, are we ever going to? Is it almost impossible, I guess, to get to the point of just simply saying we need to hire people who know how to write? It's like because that seems like we need good stuff to make things good. You know, I mean, it's too it's too almost ethereal as a solution. They can't can't really do anything with that. It's like, well, yeah, we're always we're hiring people who we do think can write like, oh. Well, you have to be able to. Yeah, you have to be able to recognize what the quality is before you can. You know, it's like, if you don't know what a chair looks like, how are you supposed to like construct a chair? Like someone like sort of describes to you like through your voice, like what a chair kind of is supposed to be. And you just sort of hope for the best. Anyway, the marbles has. Yeah. Oh, OK. Yeah, go for it. The marbles has seen its release date move back twice to wants to swap places with Quantamania, which was deemed further along. And again, when its debut shifted from July to November to give the filmmakers more time to tinker. We're the alternate world where the marbles is already out, you know, and by many, many months time. But that extra time didn't necessarily help. In June, Marvel, which traditionally only solicits feedback from Disney employees and their friends and family, took the uncharacteristic step of holding a public test screening in Texas. The audience gave the film middling reviews. And it doesn't surprise me. I think it was ever going to get more than middling. And it's not due to the fact that I despise Captain Marvel so much that it couldn't possibly be good. It's like, no, it's just the way that they create films. We've seen it in Phase four and five. That formula you'll be lucky to ever produce a great film out of that. You know, that awful, awful pattern that we see just keeps on going. They haven't made anything good. And I mean, Andor was the one shining example of that. And it's definitely just it's like its own thing. It doesn't even belong. But we also have the information on why Andal was so different. When Gilroy was like sent off to make it with money. And then yeah, like he's talented and gave a shit. And then they had a break and he redrafted the scripts. I still can't get over that. It blows my mind that he's like, I have free time. I shall redraft. I will work on my movie like I care. That's crazy, isn't it? And is it? But Marvel has never been in the business of being average. Kevin's real. It's true. They're not that good. No, yeah, yeah. Quote, Kevin's real superpower. His genius has always been in post production and getting his hands on movies and making sure they finish strongly. The source adds these days he spread thin. Buggy declined to comment for this story. So I think that's the difference in the mainstream circles. It's yeah, Marvel was pretty consistently OK, whereas our perspective is not really like, I mean, it's just that they used to occasionally make good films. When a lot of the times when their films were bad, they like they didn't make anyone angry or bored. Well, Iron Man 3 made a lot of people angry to be fair. Yeah, I guess so. But I would say that's controversial, of course. Ultron, yeah. But like when I watch Age of Ultron, I'm like, oh, there's like things in here to like and there's some neat stuff. And so it's not like you don't like walk away from it going like, wow, what a massive pile of shit. No, yeah, we definitely can see it's a different kind of bad at this point. Yeah, that's what it was. Yes. And I guess the more relevant part would be that Marvel used to have the capacity to make good films and even great films. Now it's like that seems like an impossibility. I find it interesting, too, about the whole formula that we get running with Kevin and everything else. It's like Phase Four was also just happened to be the first in-universe recognition and celebration of said formula. Look at it. Yeah. It's like it's like when it was fully refined, understood and sort of kind of made fun of is when we're like, yeah, the formula and then it's just a crashing down around you as well. It's like, you know, I don't think there's ever a formula that keeps you going forever. We're not unless you want Marvel to be like a soap opera, but they don't make Marvel money. OK, that's because they're not supposed to. If I isn't the only person showing signs of strain, Marvel's entire VFX battalion, including staffers and vendors, is struggling to keep pace with a never ending stream of productions. Yeah, that's that's one of the things that would have been like highlighted for criticism almost immediately by the public or released by us, right? Like being like, fucking hell, they're making shit tons of things. And then it wasn't even just that they're making shit tons of things. It was making stuff on on characters and storylines that no one gives a fuck about, which is unusual, not like a guarantee of bad, of course, just unusual. This past February, when the credits rolled at the world premiere of Quantamania, shock rippled through the Regency Village Theatre in Westwood as over some shoddy CGI, there were at least 10 scenes with the visual effects have been added at the last minute and we're out of focus, says one veteran power broker who was there. Well, it was insane. I've never seen something like that in my entire career. Everyone was talking about it, even the kids of executives were talking about it. We know exactly what they're talking about, too. Yeah. Yeah. That would be if that movie had great CGI, like it wouldn't have no one that people wouldn't have been like, oh, I care now. What a great movie. Exactly. Exactly. We told us before the great things with bad CG. People usually go, yeah, yeah, I know. Yeah, whatever. Yeah, it's fine. And they released Cassie's run as a separate thing on YouTube. Well, like, look at that. Great, isn't it? And I thought that was good enough. But I mean, really, it is incredible, the idea that you're handing in shots like that close to the film to the fact that there are now like post launch patches for films to like fix them up. That's wild. Yeah, nowadays, it used to be like, oh, there's a car in the shire, we'd better fix that up really quick. And now it's just like, oh, God, our CGI is horrific. We have to fucking deliver our shots and then do a post launch patch to fix it up. Yeah, the day one patch thing is so funny. Yeah, don't go see a movie on day one. Wait for the patch. Dude, the crazy thing of, so I still feel like I haven't had a good explanation of what the fuck happened with them across the spider is having different scenes, depending on where you saw it. When I was crazy. And the fact that on the Blu-ray, apparently some scenes aren't on there that were in theaters, they're just gone. That baffles me. But then when you combine it with the story of intense crunch and everything like that and all the behind the scenes production troubles there and the fact that the next one, I think it's now indefinitely delayed because it's like, as far as I know, not anywhere near done that some lines were finished like a couple of weeks before it came out. Like that seems like that one was rice to the finish line as well. Yeah. Oh, right. All right, let me see. The is it schedule or schedule? Oh, I said, I say, I say, I say, I think you're allowed to say both or open minded people here. That's right. The schedule swap with the marbles had left the Ant-Man sequel in a squeeze, pushing up its post-production schedule by four and a half months. Oh. They're trying to get out so great. Yeah. And that, yeah, being told, yeah, you've got four and a half months less to work on, which they're already screwed for time. So, yeah. Marvel films are known for coming down to the wire, given Feige's ability to foam the runaway and land in a land of plane that way, says one executive familiar with how the company operates. But this level of unfinished was unprecedented and would be noted in scathing reviews when the tent pole with the $200 million budget opened 11 days after the premiere. Critics weren't the only ones dismayed, fed up with 14 hour days and no overtime, which seems literally illegal to me. Marvel VFX workers voted unanimously to unionize in September, sparking an industry-wide trend. Yeah, they're not the only ones. And it's crazy that if the higher ups were, like, terrified of the idea of them unionizing and it's just like, maybe you shouldn't have treated them like shit. I mean, that they probably wouldn't have, at least not for as fast. If you make them work 14 hours a day and you fucking pay them gold bars, that would be one thing. But like, man, the 14 hour days and no overtime pay, which is, I don't know how they got away with that. It stays awake for like months at a time. And then it's like, the product turns out to be shit. Like at the end. So it's not even like, well, we worked our asses off to make something amazing. It's like, no, it's just, I don't know how you could be in that industry and be like, yeah, it's just another job. I mean, isn't it just like a documented, established, accepted fact that like when human beings start working like a certain amount, their productivity decreases to the point that if they actually just work normal hours, they'd be more productive. Yeah, I think so. I think there's only so much you could put someone to work before they get bored or they want to do something else or they get tired or fed up with it. And yeah, it becomes harder for them to work because they're tired. Like they're just really, really, really tired. But like, yeah, I mean, people work in 14 hours a day, like six, seven days a week for several months on end. It's insane. It's absurd. It's ridiculous. It's definitely weird when you spend this kind of money on a movie and it doesn't look good. Like that should be like, isn't that what the money pays for, for it to look good? You would think that there's a direct correlation between spending money and how it looks. The problem is that there are only so many VFX workers. There's only so much time in the day and there are many, many, many, many, many projects. It's it's like a matter of just being like stretched completely thin. Because I mean, at this point, like the majority of productions have like some kind of post-production visual effects, even things that you wouldn't expect, like, I guess, contemporary non superhero, non like action movies will just have visual effects for like backgrounds or even the sky. It's practically exponential, isn't it, with moviemaking because it can solve basically any problem visually. Yeah, like if you if you're shooting on a day and it's cloudy, you can just make it look sunny. Like that's something you can do. But I mean, that's all work and it's not it's not easy work. It's time consuming work, even simple things like that. That's not, you know, like the problem is that there is too much work and there's not enough people and time in the day. And it seems like basically it gradually got to the point where it got this insane and it's kind of like the dam is bursting. It's now gotten to the point where it's like, all right, this is like absurd and unacceptable. And yeah, now that, you know, because it's not just the Marvel guys, isn't it like Disney in houses, VFX is brought to union eyes. That like it's starting to hit. So things are changing and things be changing in the in that world. Yes, seemingly we will. Yeah, we'll see what happens with it. Who knows? I mean, oh, yeah. And the other thing that was talked about as well is constantly changing their minds. Like it's one thing if you keep telling them, no, change it. No, you don't like that. Do it. Do it again. You know, there's a difference between very deliberate planned. I mean, you know, Avatar 2, not a very good movie at all. It looks incredible. And it's like why with with, you know, the VFX artists, some of whom would have ended up working on some of these projects are probably that don't look very good at all. It's like it's not a lack of talent on their part, is it? It's a matter of an understanding and consideration of respect for the tools and the time needed to get the results that that they got for that movie. But yeah, OK, so the year 2023 was the straw that broke the camel's back, says former Marvel Studios VFX assistant coordinator Anna George, who appeared before the Congressional Labor Caucus on October 19th to testify about the studio's untenable deadlines and working conditions. Quote, the pay and long hours at Marvel were the reason we had to start our unionization process there. The conditions were completely unsustainable. I mean, yeah, probably. I mean, by the sounds of it, almost certainly. Yeah, you know, I don't know what you'd have to do to get me to want to work in that industry. There's just I there's no way. What amount of money could you pay me that's like within the realm of even like normalcy that would get me to work 14 hours a day of seven days a week on these types of projects? You know, you're essentially saying, what number do I have to write on this check for you to hate yourself? I just don't know if there's a number or just to completely sacrifice your life for these projects. Which is also kind of nuts because it's there's such an enormous amount of people who are looking to start up, you know, working in places like that. They're like, let's go, let's do it. And it's like, oh, it's it's been spoken about in the gaming industry, right, that the industry is kind of running on plucky. There's a meat grinder industry excited about video games and a lot of them get destroyed by it. Yeah, there's so many examples of like people joining big companies that make games, finding out, oh, this is miserable and I hate myself. And then they find or make little little groups, you know, that kind of thing. Well, yeah, it's interesting. It's interesting how many. People who were like creative directors who presumably get what you would imagine is the dream job of being the person in charge of the creative aspects of a massive video game who then decide, nah, you know, I want to I want to make it with a with a team of like 20 of me and six of my blokes. We're going to go make an indie game. That's happened a surprising number of times happens all the time. You hear about it all the time. And, you know, it's talked about, right, is aside from the fact that destroying people in this way to fucking make these projects is absurd anyway, even even from like a purely ruthless business standpoint, you're you're you're losing the future leaders of the industry. You're losing a lot of potential in these people. So even if you put to one side that these are human beings and you just think you put that to what's going to if you think about what's going to make you money in the future, this is a completely unsustainable and stupid way of doing things. And not to sound callous, but like it's not even like worth it in terms of it's not even producing good stuff. No, I mean, this. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, like throwing their souls into a machine that produces movies that are kind of crap. It's like, well, then. Yeah, we didn't even we didn't even like make something amazing and legendary that will stand the test of time that we can be proud of. It's not it's not one of those uplifting stories where you can at least look back and go, I create we created something great, though, like what, you know, because what? Yeah, that's a thought. The only I was, you know, I was telling about the Friday the 13th filming story where a guy almost went blind for like six months. I wonder if Friday the 13th hadn't turned out to be so profitable and instead was considered like a really shit movie that was just crab and everyone hated in the production. Like that is like a tone description of that experience on one hand. It's like the sacrifices I made to, you know, really get this film going and how plucky our attempts and scrappy the whole thing was, you know, and we got there versus being like it was miserable, horrible. I was taken advantage of. I would never work with those people again. You know what I mean? Like, I wonder if the line is down to almost how successful the film is sometimes. Yeah, or something that you could be like proud of even. There's never that well, at least at the end is like, well, at least we can say that we made something incredible and amazing. And like, I mean, Vigo is I'm sure Vigo is totally fine. He broke his toe for the two towers. You know, I'm sure that that that's something is, you know, that's one thing instead of I lost my arm for Batwoman. Right. Well, yeah. And so couldn't people ask me what I'm talking about? The there was a character that gets stabbed in the eye in the first part of the 15th movie and the prosthetic they had for import liquid that had a Kodak fluid in it to make the right viscosity that went into his eye. And he went blind in that eye for a while. He said it took six months for his full vision to come back in that eye. So it was like, shit, man. Well, I think I think one of the more famous examples is Jack Haley, who some of you might know as the actor for Tin Man. In the Wizard of Oz. And I think he died from complications of no, it was it was someone else. I think it was the original. They had like a there was something about the tin man's makeup, the silvery makeup on him that was like toxic and I got through his skin and stuff. And something like that. So I mean, I mean, actually, now that I think about it, the Wizard of Oz is an incredible example, because the working conditions while making that film were fucking atrocious duty. Garland was like on crack and the the sets were insanely hot. Yeah, that's famous. Yeah, it's famously miserable production to make, but at least it made the Wizard of Oz the most famous movie of all time. So. Where are we? Is it me on Disney's top brass? Yeah. Disney's top brass, including newly returned CEO, Bob Iger. I think it's funny that it would even be worth mentioning as if that wasn't all a part of some plan like him to pop out and pop back in. It was so brief and like I imagine there were several legal things that happened as a result of it that were useful. But yeah, I just find it funny behind the scenes are the newly returned CEO, Bob Iger was said to be apoplectic apoplectic. Right. And I've heard that way before. I feel like Simpsons used that before. Or maybe black out about Marvel's VFX troubles. One month after the Quantamania premiere debacle, the guillotine fell on Victoria Lonzo, who oversaw. I know oversaw. What do you say that? Who's oversold the studio's physical production, post production, VFX and animation. While the reason cited for her abrupt firing was her unauthorized role as an executive producer on the Oscar nominated film, Argentina, 1985. Insider say Disney was incensed that quality control in its model productions was plummeting. I find that so funny. Yes, obviously, like we can tell. Don't worry, insiders have given us this knowledge. Thank you. Thank you, insiders, for letting us know that their films are yet particularly on the ever expanding TV front. That's also funny. I don't know that I think the TV shows were like significantly worse than the movies. No, I don't think so. I found it annoying when it was coming out of like, oh, yeah. You know, Marvel realizes they've screwed up on the TV front. It's like, I see you're doomed. You don't know. You don't understand. You're a if a doctor can't diagnose the condition. How do you expect to treat it? Exactly. And when you're there, like, yes, it's the TV side where we screwed up movies are great. And it's like, guys, you're fucked. What's funny to me, too, is that you can get away with shittiest VFX. I think on TV shows and movies is I think so, too. People will be like TV show. Come on. We know and go into a theater to see like the TV shows and that all automatically helps like I'm definitely an aspect. There's just this attitude that's sort of different, you know? I mean, you still expect a certain amount of quality. But yeah, I think you're right. I think TV shows can sort of get away with it a bit more. Unless it's She-Hulk. Well, that's it's not even that. It's just that it was going to say unless it was a soca. With She-Hulk is that if she's the main character and she's just weird to look at. Yeah, that was I I said before I had to it. They should have found a big lady and painted her green. That was that was almost certainly never even entertain. I don't even think they would ever have done that. No, this is no. But I suppose the funny thing is you imagine the budget comparison of the cost of those two things. Well, yeah, I mean, that gave off a good hundred million dollars. Imagine wouldn't it have been fun if the transformation was a shot of Tatiana Maslani going and then a quick like zoom and she's just here with green going and then the clothes start to rip and then it just cuts to the or poof of smoke and it's that other actress who's really big. Basically what they did in the 70s show. But like, I feel like there would be a sense from a lot of what he's supposed to be like, ah, I kind of like it. It's throwback and it's funny and yeah. And I think people will be OK with that to some extent. I mean, obviously, some to it, yeah, it would probably be scrutinized and made fun of if it were a part of a show that's just plain awful. But if it was part of a show that was well written and fourth wall breaky and fun, like, yeah, what? But not, but not that what will breaky, but terrible. Yes, the VFX log jam had been evident for some time with some final effects for such Disney Plus series as WandaVision and She-Hulk attorney at law inserted after their streaming debuts that Alonzo was busy promoting her art house project while Rome Boone certainly didn't sit well with Disney leadership. Alonzo attorney says her client is unable to comment. Oh, my God, nobody can comment on this story. But they wouldn't want to. I guess it's just not worth it, is it? Probably not a good idea. She-Hulk will be dispatched to their house and she will step on them. All right. Let's see. Scroll down. But some internal sources suggest Alonzo was a scapegoat and point to the She-Hulk VFX issues as a symptom of a deeper rot, namely a lack of oversight on script development. Oh, my God, good Lord. Could it be? Yeah, could it be? Could it be? In the original arc of She-Hulk, a flashback of star Tatiana Maslani's transformation into her whole character didn't take place until episode eight, the penultimate episode. That makes a lot more sense when you think about it because that had here a more general structure of these Marvel TV shows. I remember talking about it at the time. And yeah, if you look back on the episode, the clunkiness of the almost the pacing of it, it's like interesting to see the cuts and pastes where they likely were. Yeah. Um, but after Marvel's brain trust, watched footage, it realized the scene needed to happen. But after Marvel's brain trust, watched footage, it realized the scene needed to happen in the pilot episode so that audiences could see more of the character's backstory early. Could you know, you imagine story without the transformation? Do you imagine being among, let's just say, it's 20 people in a special viewing of the, you have to watch, let's say, episodes one through four or so. Fuck it. The whole thing you just do is your job, whatever. And it's like, what do you think? And you're sitting there going like, Jesus fucking Christ. Like, you've got a list of just all the most horrible writing choices. All this. And then most of the people in the room just agree. I don't understand how She-Hulk was She-Hulk, though. Don't you think you should put her origin first? I would just be sitting there like, that is not the problem. That's not even close to the problem. But you guys, if you can gear me to the character and then later we learn the backstory, some might say that there's a lot more merit to that concept because I don't really care necessarily about the backstory to some random stranger. More than I do the backstory about someone I kind of have been, you know, enamored with or that I care about or I'm interested in. Well, it's interesting that this theory didn't apply. We didn't see how Moon Knight got his powers until like the penultimate episode and nobody cared. That didn't really matter. Remember, we didn't see how he got the Moon Knight. It's kind of what I'm getting at. Like, it just feels like sometimes they're brain trust. Just give them random shit advice. Like, it's like I said, I think they're doomed. The fact that they were watching that and they were like, you know, the problem with the script, the problem with the writing here is we didn't see how she got her powers. And we need to move that forward. The fact that that's like the mode of their thinking means, oh, yeah, you guys have no idea. You know why it's taken well to is probably like it actually changes that it's actionable, like, oh, that is a problem I can solve. You guys are highlighted as a problem. I can solve it. Great. This is like it's like hiring a painter to look at a house that's about to fall down and they're like, well, you see the which color shutters the color of the shutters kind of clashes with the the the the paneling on the side. You know, it folds off falling down. And then they're like, oh, God, I just know the living room. Oh, my good. You can't have a rug that color with a beige. That's the rug. Unbelievable. And the house is just collapsed. Um, that meant that the VX team was tasked with fixing the mess and post production. I'm sure they were. Yeah, that's why it looks so great. Yeah, you know, it's funny, too, is the catching up of it being like, oh, let's keep let's keep fixing it. We'll keep day two patch day three. But eventually it's like, just leave it. You've got to fix the next thing we can't the new fucker is coming out. We've got to get on that. Like, OK. OK. The so-called bad VFX we see was because of half baked scripts. I mean, that was probably part of it, but there was also just the fact that trying to achieve a hulk on a television show budget as well as television show timescale was probably just a bad idea from the start. Well, didn't you have a massive budget, though? Yeah, but again, it's comparable to the budget of a film stretched across more than two hours of story. You know what I mean? Like, even though it is a big budget for a television show, it's still a greater quantity of screen time that you need to create content for. As much as I agree with you, I still think there's what you said in addition is the main problem is just the time frame. Yes, absolutely. Like, more time, you could probably get a better result than that. Because there are films that are half the length of she-hulk that likely wouldn't have anyone near its budget that look way. You know what I mean? Like, it's just. Well, I mean, I mean, you know, I don't think it's a very good film, but the creator was on a budget of like 80 million dollars. And that film looks way better than anything Marvel's put out in the last few years. And it's just knowing how to use the tools for sure. Someone gave a super chat. I just wanted to read. They mentioned, I don't think we have seen how Tom Holland, Spider-Man, got his powers. That's true. It's true. We never we never saw as far as I remember was going to happen, or at least closer to it with a prequel animated TV show or something. Right. But that got scrapped. I don't know if that's happening. Yeah, that's right. They had a little like graphic for it. And I'm pretty sure that you know, probably not. The so-called bad effects we see was because of half baked scripts, says one person involved with she-hulk, quote, that is not Victoria. That's Kevin and even a Bob Kevin. Those issues should be addressed in pre-production. The timeline is not allowing the Marvel executives to sit with the material. Yeah, sure. Is some it's kind of crazy, isn't it? Because they're just permanently behind schedule. And what's funny, I guess, if you knocked out a couple of projects and took that time and added it to the rest, you might be able to at least level out. And yeah, because we talk about the VFX being awful is a big indicator of things going wrong. It's just like, well, ultimately, as we've said, wouldn't matter at all if the scripts were top notch. Nobody would really care that much. We would be talking about it. We'd be like, how come the CG is so fucking bad in these great films? It's like, I don't know, I guess they're rushed. But it just wouldn't have as much of an impact. But when there's nothing when it's just really bad. Yeah. Then, yeah, what do you have left other than, wow, it looks awful, too. Well, the key jangling and spectacleness of the films, a lot of it is dependent on the quality of the CG at that point. You can't blow people away. What is like a fucking MoDoc face is heading into the screen. It's like, what is that? It's a surprise to see me. Yes. Yes. I'm surprised to see whatever this is and I'm looking at. Yes. All the while, Marvel was bleeding money with a single episode of She-Hulk costing some 25 million toward dwarfing the budget of the final season episode of HBO's Game of Thrones, which is absolutely fucking nuts. And recall that the entire budget for the first season of House of the Dragon 10 episodes, that was 200 million. So that was 20 million an episode for they spent that money. Yeah, those dragons look fucking great. It looks incredible. Those are incredible episodes, except for one of them. The last of us, season one, I think had 100 million for the budget for the whole season. That was nine episodes. Damn good. The sets are so wonderful to look at. So you're like, oh, my God, it's real great. It's a lot of it was like good makeup and shit. And a lot of sets. Yeah, like it's all just looks so real, so good. Twenty five million dollars an episode. You could make one five nights a Friday and make. Yes. Oh, you must be. They must be so fucking annoyed when they see stuff like that. They're like, well, that could have been us. Damn it. Friday was 25 million. Twenty million. Yeah. Well, it's going to make shit turn. It already has. Well, it's it's again. I'll keep pointing it out like fucking bloom. He's the guy who figured out. He figured out how to make money off of, like, everything. Well, I'm just waiting on this. Like, I'm perfect for you. You're perfect for me. Let's go. We'll make a billion. As it and bear in mind that this film was simultaneously released on streaming as well. And it's sort of made one hundred and sixty million dollars. It's only been a week. Tony, man, we get those those video game movies. I mean, yeah. Well, I mean, I mean, Mario, remember, Mario movie cost a hundred million dollars and it made one point three billion. You know, meanwhile, the Marvels cost, like, one hundred and fifty percent. That like two and a half. That, yeah. What was it? They'll lose it all on the sequel. I would assume this will stay pretty profitable for at least three films. Oh, five nights of Freddy, they'll make. They're not going to lose all that. Yeah, it'll be like three or ten of them. And they will make money. And I'll come out every year. It'll be the new sore. Yeah, it'll be the new saw. While I was desperately trying to crawl, let's play back into being the sore films. It's like, look, we're here, too. But without a similar zeitgeist bang, the August 2022 series premiere at the El Capitan Theater foreshadowed. What was to come six months later at the Quantamania? Bow, the She-Hulk special effects were out of focus in multiple scenes. That's imagine that. Yeah, we're going to the premiere for our new show and then you're sitting there watching it. Yeah, we need. What are you supposed to make of that? I guess you'd be told, like, there'd be some announcement being like some things are not completely fit. And it's just like, but that's OK. But that's what you. But that's your job. It's the premiere. Like it should be done, right? Yeah, like this is it. Coming out is what we're here. We're here to see the movie. Where's the movie? Um, let's see. There are signs that the flood of market. That the flood of product. Why don't I say market? I don't know. There are signs that the flood of product is leading people to tune out. I'm not prepared to call it a permanent fall, but based on the numbers that go with Marvel podcasts, Marvel based articles, friends who do Marvel based video coverage. All of these numbers are significantly down. Says Joanna Robinson, coauthor of the New York Times bestseller, MCU, the reign of Marvel Studios. And you know what numbers are up? The ones for coverage that's not positive. Oh, my God. Why? Why is that happening? Well, typically you point to a fundamental sense of what you are indeed by connected to, you know, engaged with. And it's like, yeah, there was a time where it would have been hyperproportable to just be like every Marvel thing is amazing. Woo. Do you remember the I was telling you about that cover? If we watched it on EFAP at all. But there was there was React streamers who were saying after their first reaction to one of them from Ahsoka or Loki or whatever was like, hey, can you guys, you know, not as many people watching our stuff as we're like, what's good? Oh, it's like, well, yeah, you have done that yourself. Yeah, it makes me better. Instead of just going, woo, every time anything happens. Joana Robinson's a writer and podcaster at the ringer. The quality is suffering in 2019 at the peak. If you put Marvel Studios in front of something, people were like, oh, that brand means quality. That association is no longer the case because there have been so many projects that felt half baked and undercooked. That's half baked is undercooked. Right. Yeah, that's redundant. Yeah. And they're both food related. You know, they're both, you know, yeah, you're right, Rags. What the hell? They're it's redundant and they're food related. Because I think you're correct, but you could look at they could be two different things that don't necessarily. There's like a it's like a Venn diagram between those two. Right. Because what if I had perfectly baked half of a thing and the other half wasn't versus undercooked the whole thing? It's it doesn't. Well, that it's it's the same thing both ways. If something is undercooked, then the middle will be raw. And same thing. If you half bake something, the middle will be raw with the dough and everything. So it's pretty much the same thing, almost exactly. Because one is with typically with, you know, different thing. I guess you could undercook like a soup. Yeah. But that's that's not really what people think about undercooking a soup. Now, when you think about undercook, you think it's fucking raw. Yeah, you think about raw meat. Yeah, but since it's metaphorical, right? Like it's it's like if a if a line of dialogue was half baked, maybe you'll be arguing that half of it was pretty strong. The other half wasn't well undercooked. The whole thing is sort of lackluster. Um, may maybe because like if you half bake something, the outside will probably be fine. And if you undercook something, well, the outside will probably be fine. But that'll be the outside and the outside inside difference. And the process would be kind of the same for both, where, you know, the heat from the outside and maybe it's just right. And it just struck me as odd, though. Do we have our pictures of Jonathan Major's here? And then we have our Marvel's squad. I'm going to say I have the Marvel suit looks like shit. Is that what you're going to say? That looks awful. I think the other one is better. The other one that she's wearing and part of the film, evidently, like that one looks that one looks way better. Original doesn't matter. This looks it looks like Zack Snyder made it. And then, of course, there is the big problem of why is the logo on Captain Marvel's suit that of like the empire that took her in and then manipulated her and never going to address that. Leave her alone. Yeah, I don't know why. In fact, all of these costumes look pretty pretty bad. Yeah, they all look pretty. Yeah, not a fan of not a fan of any of them. They just don't look they just don't look good. They just look like something you buy at a Halloween store for 30 bucks. Monika looks super generic to me. And the black and white is not. I don't know if I'm feeling that black and white. It's it's I don't know. It just doesn't look good. None of them look good. They look pretty bad. Yeah, they look pretty bad. And you got to nail the costumes, guys. Come on, I mean, Kings looks all right, you know. But I just don't understand why Captain Marvel's is so desaturated. I don't that's the big problem. Yeah, it's so dull. Why isn't it more colorful? Why isn't like a bright and bold blue and red? Well, I mean, it's what you be wearing to a fucking funeral. Like you could imagine that if she had to have a super outfit to a funeral. And then there's yeah, that's she hawks. And then there's Jonathan Mages where the creators of it said it's the best suit in the MCU. It's fine. It looks fine. Well, the problem is like, I'm sorry, but Spider-Man's like, design is pretty top tier, like just fundamentally like Spider-Man in general. That's like, you don't even need to name the top hitters. I feel like he doesn't beat out even Doctor Strange. I really like his. I don't think he beats out. Yeah, Doctor Strange is cool. I'd say he doesn't beat out Cap suit in the first Captain America movie. Probably not. No, I'm one and obviously I don't hate it. It's just someone showed me this and I'm like, I think that there's this minimal kind of quality to a lot of them. Like, I don't think that's great or anything, but it looks fine. You know, the problem is like, it's for whatever reason, like Marvel doesn't like to do them like that. They always they always have a certain like it's it's it's what you see in this in this picture, right? That's like generic workable Marvel suit, I guess. But yeah, they try to make them overly complex and detailed. They will times and the material and the way that it fits on the body. Just lines. There's always just lines going in different directions. Go to all the place. The front of Monica's suit there is like you have the there's so many lines and so much stuff going on is like, just stop. Don't don't do it. Don't do it. But it's like they're trying to make it look like faux armor, but it doesn't look like armor. No, yeah, but you can make it armor. You're Disney. Just what you want to make it armor. Just do it where she's got little bits or it's like an actual suit or it has something related to her power. There's something coming out of her back like a machine or something on her belt that she uses or some kind of a visor, you know, something. Oh, yeah, we don't do head stuff. No, they don't do that. Yeah, that's the thing is, is I at this point, I just prefer it if you just don't even have the loot. I saw someone in chat say, oh, yeah, but Dr. Doom will be taken to someone off all the time. And the answer is in my ideal world, he never takes that thing off. It's all he's got a metal face. It's it's it's there forever, but it'll be nanotech when he shows up, he'll have a nanotech helmet as well. It's just like it. So, you know, I prefer that they're not even pretending that these guys are going to wear helmets that it was funny. I saw what we were talking about, the nature of bringing in Dr. Doom, some people were like, no, don't bring the route. And I was like, that was under the specific presence of it being amazing. Yeah, that's right. Wait, it's rags. It's up next. Oh, wait, you just read the last one, didn't you? Let's see. I think I had just meant I had just I did something happened. You mentioned the half baked and undercooked. Yes, yeah, I think that I yes, I think it was me that just did it. OK, well, as a public criticism mounts, five years pulling the plug on scripts and projects that aren't working. Case in point, the blade free boot. Here we go. Mahersh Ralees, I'm not tied on for the eponymous role of a vampire. Things look promising for a twenty twenty three release, but the project has gone through at least five writers, two directors and one shut down six weeks before production. What one person familiar with the script? Permutation says the story at one point morphed into a narrative led by women and filled with life lessons. Blade was relegated to the fourth lead. A bizarre idea. What? Very plain narrative led by women and filled with life lessons. A true type of Oscar winner, Ali on board. Now, this is one of the things that's been contested publicly. You're most contentious one. Yes, this is the most contentious claim. I think it was somebody who worked on the script saying that this was outright false. Well, we already know that Mahersh Lalee specifically hated the script to the point where he left the project, right, whatever it was. I think that's what I mean. The thing that cannot be denied is that the project is clearly not in a good way that they've lost to the actors. Let's put it this way, it's not important whether or not the script itself had him a fourth lead with a bunch of women talking about life lessons. The more important thing is that Blade isn't being taken seriously whatsoever, that they've had like several different versions that are all horrible, that they have no idea what they're doing. When? How do I put this? Having Mahersh Lalee and Blade, it's like you've got it. That's it. Like, how do you screw that up? Just make him kill vampires. That's what you're going to do. How do you screw it up is the same way they screw a lot of them up, where it's like there's really no problem with the casting, the vast majority. It's part of the reason why like Cassie and Ant-Man stands out. It's like, wow, that's like distinctly bad casting. Marvel, like DC, where they like repeatedly made mistakes in terms of casting people. Like Marvel tends to get the right people for the job. But then, you know, you pair them with some like shitty writer and like, well, you know, I mean, the specifics, the specifics being contested is like, well, I'm sure, obviously, Blade being a fourth lead is insane. The women telling your life lessons, things sounds embarrassing. But, you know, it's just that these are symptoms of the fact that they just don't they're not taking this seriously, not doing this properly whatsoever. And I'm sure none of the suggested scripts have been very good so far. I bet you that they were sitting there for a long time, like, well, is it even going to be our rating? It's like, well, of course, right? Right? I can even ask. Yes. And then they're just like, oh, yeah. I mean, they've had to repeatedly assure people right of Deadpool 3. And I still wonder if they might be while they're cutting that film together going like, you know, you know, Ryan, can you redub some of these lines to not swear please and thank you? I can easily see them out of that conversation. But yeah. Right. Amid reports that Ali was ready to exit over script issues, Feige went back to the drawing board and hired Michael Green, the Oscar nominated writer of Logan to start a new speculation around town is that the studio is looking to make the film now slated for 2025 on a budget of less than 100 million, a deviation from Marvel's big spending strategy. Wow. I wouldn't expect Blade to need that high of a budget. It's probably going to be contemporary. A lot of stuff will be practical. Why the fuck would any of the projects they've been making need the kind of budgets that, you know, like she Hulk, a little kid, you know, needs the gajillion dollars. Like why? So this this is surprising because it's like, well, they usually overspend. But the thing is 100 million can have more of an effect than 200 million if it's given to the right people and they give them the right time, right? Well, yeah, I mean, remember, Deadpool one and two, I think Deadpool one had a budget of like 50 million and Deadpool two was something like 100 million. So, you know, it can be. And those aren't like those have a lot of big like explosive action setpaces. So, you know, it can be done. And as for hiring Michael Green is the writer of Logan. It's like, yeah, whoever whatever creative team creates something like Logan, I can understand why that creative team could give you something strong with a blade, but at the same time, you just wonder, like, are you are you casting them as Gary's always put it? Or are you hiring them? Like, are they because of who they are and what they've done? Or are they because you're actually going to let them create something? All right, who is who is next, actually? Let's see. Mola's next. That'll be weird, because I just read that. Oh, right. I just read the didn't I just read the blade pot? Yeah, sorry. There's two. No, you're next rags. My bad. Yeah. But with a publicly acknowledging the downside of a Marvel TV glut that diluted focus and attention, the keepers of the comic book empire are considering some dramatic moves. Sources say there have been talks to bring back the original gang for end of a movie. Because, of course, it's so over. It is so fucking over. We got to avenge all of our new characters, suck balls and no one likes that we have to revive Robert Downey, Jr. You know that they're like, 2012. That was that was a good time. That was when we were going up instead of crashing down. Jeez, this would include reviving Robert Downey, Jr.'s Iron Man and Scarlett Johansson's Black Widow, both of whom were killed off an end game. That shouldn't be a stumbling block in comic books. Beloved characters are often killed off only to be resurrected. Thanks to the power of thing like the multiverse. Yeah, it's no. Yes, but the studio hasn't shouldn't be a shock. I mean, come on, guys. But the studio hasn't yet committed to the idea if it were able to bring these actors back, by the way, that's a big fucking if. And they would cost a shit ton to get either of them both. Oh, Robert Downey, Jesus. What do you have to pay him to come? He just seems he's done. He's moving on. Well, yeah, he was an Oppenheimer. So you got Downey, Jr., who has publicly stated that he thought his time in the MCU may have like killed his ability to act and that he has no intention of coming back or putting the jersey back on, as he said on Joe Rogan. And then your Scarlett Johansson that went through a fucking legal battle with like Disney. That's right. These are the two people that you want to bring back. Can you imagine how much they'll cost and what their contracts would say? Sources say Downey, Jr.'s upfront salary for Iron Man 3 was around 25 million. That's not true, because he caught a really good deal in terms of getting a percentage of the box office gross that ran throughout the whole thing. Yeah, man. Sometimes you got to play that. Well, what was that thing we were talking about once that it was? Oh, it was Batman. Oh, who was it? Oh, it was Michael Keaton, wasn't it? Who went for a percentage of the take instead of just. Oh, no, no, no. It would. Jack Nicholson went for it. Jack Nicholson. That's it. Yeah, yeah. And the merchandise and the merchandise made so much money. It's unbelievable. He made so much money. That was a smart move. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So there we go. It's that. That's that paragraph done. I'll be right back, though. OK, but yeah, I could believe that they actually had that conversation. I could totally believe it. Oh, yeah, he's like the original gag. Well, that solved Marvel's major's problem with when the Quantum Mania actor was arrested in March, Disney executives insisted that they could afford to wait to play a wait and see game, given that Avengers the Kang Dynasty wasn't expected to begin shooting until early 2024. But that major's was dropped in quick succession by his public assistant managers. He remained a client at WME, the agency he landed where he landed after CIA parted ways with him, pre-arrest for his brutal conduct towards staff, says one source. CIA declined to comment. In April, other alleged domestic violence victims of majors began cooperating with the Manhattan District Attorney's Office. Then, ahead of a key hearing in October, media outlets, including Variety, obtained a court filing that referenced a police incident in London involving majors that led his ex-girlfriend to seek medical attention. Oh, shit. Making matters. Making matters even sticky. The ex-girlfriend also worked on Quantum Mania as a movement coach, and the London incident took place while majors were shooting season two of Loki. On October 25th, a New York judge denied major's motion to dismiss the case, which ensures that the actor will stand trial in late November. His legal team is attempting to keep some material of the case sealed. Yeah, so, you know, to be we always have got to put to one side the incredibly serious nature of everything that's happening with those people involved in that thing. There's a real thing and it's potentially horrible for what different things have happened to people, but we're strictly talking about Marvel's vampiric corporate POV. This is fucking disastrous for them. The fact that it's going to take this long before they can even make decisions on whether or not they want to keep him. They can't even be sure about it because to drop him too early is to make it look like you don't have much faith and you're sort of you're looking to just get things done and move things on and get things in place. But to drop him to wait until after the trials, like, who knows even how much more damage is going to do to trying to create storylines to make the movies to push them out? Because that's like the whole thing of try to remain relevant culturally. So. And I imagine that again, the vampiric like suit sense that they've looked at stuff, you know, DC's similar, like Warner Brothers, similar situations with other actors in legal trouble. They might be thinking, just get him, just cut him out earlier. It's better than later or just, I mean, I guess the thing is, is that they're in a place that they haven't made up their mind yet. But I mean, every day that they don't make up their mind, they still have made up their mind, which is that he's still a part of it. And yeah, he's not, yeah, he's still a part of it, but they're not shooting new scenes with him. So in the crazy, it says Avengers Kang Dynasty wasn't expected to be in shooting until early 2024. It's like fucking Kang Dynasty is going to be pushed so far. Oh, yeah, that's coming out in 2027 at this point. And that's the thing, man, if you look to, like, you know, between if you made end games, like, when should the next Avengers be? It's like, probably don't want to go longer than four years, maybe five, that's already kind of pushing it. Because, you know, it's the big old, like, let's collect back up. Everyone join us. And that's by the way, that's why I consider, like, the next Avengers to be a big old death knell for the MCU, along with the marbles is one because of how badly it's going to do. That would be one because it shows how much money they can't make anymore. Like, there's all these little, like, sort of flags to the world of how bad this is going. And hence, because unlike unlike you've got Wakanda Forever. Yeah, that was the end of a phase, but it didn't feel like it. No, Avengers movies will feel like the end. They feel like the cap off. No. Yeah. Those will vary, like the public perception of those will be that. So, I mean, who knows what they're going to do? I mean, will they get just postponed until they can get their shit together with characters that people care about? I mean, who knows? If I was, I might be like, guys, we got a structure from the ground up before we even think about another Avengers movie. You can get so robotic that I imagine they're like, what can we reliably create? And it's like, Ant-Man is like, it's not, it's not pulling enough money. Is there another, another Doctor Strange? Like, maybe, yeah. Maybe we do another Doctor Strange. Like, can we do that? Maybe that will fix our problems. Because they already talked about this, like rumors of how it's going to be very Doctor Strange-centric, the Avengers films, that your evil strange and the multiverse and incursions and Kang is going to be like poised against him. And that's no accident. It's because Strange was probably the most profitable and they've got a really big actor attached to it. And they've got Sam Raimi is like that we can because isn't it rumored that Sam Raimi has been offered to do the Avengers films? Yes, it has been rumored, which is interesting. Don't do it, Sam. Stay away. No, he shouldn't do it. That would be a bad idea. He should make your own shit bad. Get away from him. Make your own shit. Um, all right. A studio sources notes that, regardless of the actor's legal issues, Marvel already had considered moving away from a major's led phase because of the box office performance of Quantamania bullshit. I don't believe that for a second. No, I don't buy that. Yeah. That sounds like cope with it. Like, oh, we were thinking of recasting him anyway. Well, I mean, to me, that to me, that sounds like the same cope of no, Aquaman, too, was always going to be a buddy comedy. Like it wasn't going to have that much of an Amber Heard as Mara in it. No, that was I always pitched that way. It's like, aha, yeah, all right, yeah. You'd have to have like Quantamania would have to do bad. You'd have to get a lot of specific like like polling and stuff from people who said they didn't like him and didn't care about the character. And then maybe Loki would have to do really bad, too. And you'd have to get the same messages. But I think I think that just when they get their minds to something, they're just full steam ahead on it. The results of Quantamania not pulling the money means that we can't do solo Ant-Man films anymore. That doesn't mean we drop all of the Ant-Man characters. Also, as someone's already pointed out in chat, the timeline doesn't make sense because Jonathan Majer's legal stuff started in March and Quantamania came out in February. So I don't know about that. You know what I mean? Well, unless they decided literally days before, you know, all of his legal stuff started happening. You know what? That film didn't make enough money. Let's not do the Kang thing. That doesn't make sense from that perspective. But I also just don't buy the idea that when Quantamania does badly, we can't possibly use Kang again. Then it's like, that's not you wouldn't have concluded that you wouldn't. It's not like we'll never section on it, man. You're like, I think so. But also, we're going to see Scott Lang again. Of course we are. Yeah, exactly. It's not like we go all the way to Quantamania didn't perform. So we're not going to ever have Ant-Man now. Yeah, you'd have to get you'd have to get a lot of groups like test groups and things like that. Screening audiences very specifically and overwhelmingly saying that, yeah, Kang sucks. I think they were fully hyper invested in Majors and then the legal stuff happened. And then they were like, oh, distance, distance, distance now. I mean, it's pretty, I mean, we could see that. I mean, the whole reason we're having this conversation and reading these articles and everyone's, you know, knows about it now is because Disney is just like, it's their full steam ahead on this stuff. Like they don't do course correction. They do course misdirection. Oh, box office forms of Quantamania, which will struggle to make a profit. It gave people pause, given that Quantamania didn't exactly land. The source says on October 27th, Disney removed another major's film, Searchlight's magazine dreams from the release calendar. Yeah, there's so much, like I said, it's so interesting to see where this dribbles out to like the I really wanted to see the assembled, but it was delayed significantly because they were like cutting it out. It's so obvious that they had a section where they were probably talking about how great Jonathan Majors is as an actor. And instead, it was just stock music as the cost of splitting him was kind of sitting around and laughing. It was surreal. He must not be named. Yeah, he's being stricken for the records, like Stalin style. I wouldn't be surprised. And I think they have to just swallow the bullet of right. We just got to fucking recast him and go on with it. Rody style. The idea that they won't like be able to sort this out, you know, for however, like, I just I feel like someone's got to get it done, move it forward, eventually. Absolutely. Unless there is actually a reason on it. But presumably they could just drop him whenever they want. Like, presumably, it's not like he's tied in. Oh, absolutely. I assume that in the yeah, in the contracts and whatnot. They say, like, if you do something bad legally, we can remove. Well, that's what happened with wasn't it? The Johnny Depp got dropped after the defamation trial in the UK, where he lost. Right. It was like that day was the day that he got dropped because presumably it's like, OK, well, now there's like a legal pretext. Yeah, probably. Yeah, I think, you know, yeah. All right. Let's see. So I had scrolled. What's this? Your own recasting. Measures are recasting. Recasting majors is also an option, as Feige did when he replaced Terence Howard in Iron Man 2 with Don Cheadle. Just want to say quick, you can reference that, but that's no way near the same situation. Not even remotely comfortable, except when I said recast Cassie earlier, people were like, they already did that. It's like, yeah, but no, no, no, you don't understand. Recasting someone who popped up briefly versus recasting someone who was full on and then versus someone who is in many things and is said to be the villain for a whole phase is like these are all very different. Yep. Let's see. In fact, Marvel isn't afraid to change direction even after making splashy announcements. Armor Wars was first unveiled in a I don't know. I don't like that name. Armor Wars. It's not great. It was first unveiled as a series and is now being developed as a feature while the studios push to adapt the comic book in humans into a feature film generator headlines, but is now dormant. Oh, yeah, that's right. They that was the plan. And then it became that show that nobody liked. Yeah. The now defunct Marvel Television Mount. The now defunct Marvel Television Mounted in inhumans TV series in 2017 that ran for one season on ABC. Yeah, I guess some relevant information is that Marvel Television was a different there was Marvel Studios and then there was Marvel Television. They were not the same. They were not the same. They didn't have the same leadership. They were they existed in different sort of realms. Whereas now all of the shows are Marvel Studios Productions. So like Daredevil, all the Netflix shows was Marvel Television. Agents of Shield, Marvel Television. But someone someone has linked a tweet from today. Oh, yeah, actually, yeah, 10 minutes ago. Pre-sales for the Marvels are reportedly now pacing behind that of Black Adam and the Flash. Really, really? Oh, my God. Sources from Deadline. But that only makes sense to me. Anyway, it makes perfect sense. But at the same time, my God, you want to go. I mean, I don't know if we were told you want to go see the Marvels, you want to go see the Flash. I'd be like, probably the Flash, I guess. Yeah. Like if I, you know, out of like, which one do you think nothing to do with your work, nothing to do with cultural conversations, just entertainment? Probably the flow. I mean, knowing Batman's in it, right? Yeah, that's not. And plus Black Adam, not a good movie at all. But I don't know. I found it. It's been a wild ride for Black Adam because it was, you know, everything coming up to it, coming out and being like lackluster in terms of box office. But now in retrospect, it's like, well, I guess it was. Well, it's better than everything else. Yeah, it's like, I mean, it wasn't that abject failure, it was just a relative failure. And, you know, fucking Dr. Fay was cool. Yeah. But but hey, maybe maybe the Marvels is going to change the hierarchy of the DC forever. Could you imagine it makes five billion dollars? We're all like, what the fuck? Yeah. It'd be so funny. Still, there was one bright spot in 2023. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3, which became Marvel's biggest draw of the year with 845 million worldwide. The fact that it was directed by James Gunn, the guy now running rival DC studios was lost on no one. I mean, yeah. What everyone should mention, if they don't mention it, it's it's incredibly important to mention is why it felt different to the rest and it's why it's kind of useless information. In terms of like the outlier. Yeah. It's outlier. It's succeeded despite the franchise it belonged to. Yeah. But sorry. By using what I meant is in favor of Marvel's uprising or rebirth or anything. It's like, no, there's nothing to do with that. No, no, no. No, absolutely. No, this is always going to be a James Gunn thing. Yeah. What's up, you know. Quote, with Marvel, it used to be as close to a guarantee as you could get, says Paul Der Degara, Bedean, Degara, Bedean, a box office analyst at ComScore. So, quote, so going in all in on budgets made sense. Guardians 3 was a bit overlooked in how successful it was. But that had James Gunn and Chris Pratt. And I think star power is becoming more important. Then there was Quantamania with 476 million. Anything under half a billion dollars is viewed as a disappointment. And these over overreaching expectations are a result of so much success over the years. That is so true and so important for people to remember. And it's it's not because, I mean, you can see with some other Disney stuff this year, it's like, oh, yeah, 500 million. So you have it when you spend 250 million dollars. They have got to reign in the costs of these movies. There is some there is some rot at the core of their financials. There's just these movies should not be costing this kind of money. And if they are, then you need to seriously reevaluate what you're spending it on. And in just what you're doing, there's too many examples of movies that are 100 million in less in terms of their budgets. And they're great and they make a lot. So it's something, I don't know. Sure, a bunch of stuff they talk about at Marvel, but who knows what will actually get done? Well, then let's see. The key to reinvigorating Marvel may lie with the superhero arsenal that Disney acquired during its 2019 purchase of 21st Century Fox or whatever you say. Yeah, that deal brought several blue chip heroes, such as the X-Men and the Fantastic Four back under the studio's control. Already, fans are geeking out about next year's Deadpool three, which unites Ryan Reynolds, Merck with a mouth. Oh, Merck with a mouth with Hugh Jackman's Wolverine and a reboot of Fantastic Four slated for 2025. Yeah, I'll believe it's out when it's in the theaters. I mean, we'll get it, but who knows what it'll fucking look like. Who knows what it'll look like and when it's so funny to write the because of the story for X-Men Origins Wolverine. And these two are teaming back up for a movie that has the exact same fucking plagued problems like a. Yeah, it's it's it's kind of, I don't know, it's a bit poetic. I don't get very curious. It rhymes like George Lucas said. Yeah, it does rhyme. Thanks, George. As a bonus, the Fox Editions give Feige an opportunity to reimagine the X-Men franchise. The more I hear about and talk about Feige like this, I think he's thron. That's actually kind of perfect, because I imagine that he has spent many, many studio meetings being like, let me explain how we're winning, actually. Yes, this is actually really like we're winning. He's like, no, no, no, no, we got him on the ropes. Now we're going to lure him into that theater. Yeah. The very property he cut his teeth on as a young executive at Lauren Schuler Donner's production company. Now that the WGA strike was that Writers Guild of America. Yeah, yeah, that was Writers Guild of America. Canada on strike, no matter where you are. Now that the WGA strike is in the rearview mirror, Marvel has started talking to writers about bringing the X-Men into the MCU fold. That's going to fix it. Yeah, yeah, all it'll be is you'll just find you'll just ruin them too. How many? That's all I hear when I read that. How many new heroes have we had in Phase four and five? Does anyone know like an estimated guess? Oh, damn, oh, it's been a lot. Obviously, my point's going to be bringing in a bunch of new heroes that you're going to fuck up is not like you've already done that. Issue, yeah, it's you're just burning fuel. You're not making anything. You're not doing anything. It's just our issue isn't that we don't have enough. It's that the ones we have suck. Yeah, and I guess it's almost worse because at least some of the ones that suck right now are all new, like your crazy nonsense inventions that no one cares about anyway. Yeah, you've ruined your own stuff, not our stuff. But when it's like Wolverine, you're like, no, I don't like him. You're like, he's your favorite. It's huge. You're like, no, stop ruining him. Let him go. You bastard. All right. Next up, my God. I'll just finish it off then. Yeah, go for it. Well, Feige recalibrates the rest of the industry is anxiously just kind of funny while Feige recalibrates the rest of the industry is anxiously hoping that Marvel's best days are not behind it. I don't know about that. I feel like just whatever at this point. I don't care. So it's weird. You could have a lot of responses to that. One of the ones that I really felt was just like, well, but it is. You we all know it. We all know, like the fact that you were even writing this article is indicative of how over it is. You know how fucking unlikely it would be to claw your way back to anywhere near as successful, both culturally and financially that you were. It's not going to happen. You had it and you blew it. The likelihood is fucking staggeringly low that they could ever do it again. Yep. And they, you know, this is no like, oh, shit, we made one bad movie. It's like, no, no, no, you guys killed it hardcore. It took ages like it was crazy. But in a couple of years, you may have like a dozen awful projects and rapid succession is remarkable. Writing the Marvel, quote, writing the Marvel obituary obituary would be ill advised, says Jason Squire, professor. Emeritus Emer at the USC School of Cinematic Art and host of the movie business podcast. Kevin Feige is the Babe Ruth of movie executives and Marvel has the most profitable track record of movie history. No question. Man, it's kind of weird, like the Feige worship in here. You know, it's kind of like, what the hell? What the what is what is that? I don't know as well. It's also just like, what are you what are you holding on to there? It's not going to happen. It's over. Exactly. It's it's done. It's Biden. It's Java. Obviously, we we're just waiting for a bit of the Marvel's information to confirm what we know to be true. But with we are actual days away from being able to confirm that. It's so over and it's funny because you be like, what about a Marvel's Avengers movie coming out? And you'd be like, what do you think is going to happen with that? No, I think they actually have to save the Avengers movie for when they're legitimately actually confident that it's going to do well. Because a bad Avengers movie in terms of box office, it's not just going to be like that's going to actually be like that that'll be the Titanic sinking. Yeah, everyone's going to see it. Because if an Avengers movie makes less than a billion dollars, then it is absolutely and utterly completely finished and done. Yeah, they have to make sure that and even if it means delaying it for years, or if this phase or if this like roundabout, whatever you want to call it, doesn't even have them, it'll probably be worth it to just you got to say that. Then you can leave it in the realm of we'll never know that speculation. You don't know that it would fail or underperform, you know? Well, someone so somebody like John Walker, Lady Loki, Shuri, She-Hulk, Echo, Kate Bishop, Monica Rambo, Miss Marvel, Moon Knight, Elsa Bloodstone, Werewolf by Midnight, Man Thing, America Chavez, Black Widow's sister, Red Guardian, Taskmaster, Daredevil, Lady Thor, Cassie Lang, Captain America, Falcon, Marvel's, Marvel's, Katie, Shang-Chi, the Five Eternals, Blade, basically someone just started typing them out. And they're like, yeah, all these people, who gives a shit about like any of them? There's maybe like four on that list that might get people's attention. But even then, even then, even. Oh, yeah. What a what a crazy, I guess, to cap it off. The fact that this article exists is indicative of how much trouble Marvel's in. Yes, they felt bold enough and the information they have in there. Not all of it is like hyper confirmable, but a lot of it is a lot of stuff we already do. A lot of it is true, which is it's not doing well at lost money. And, you know, our sort of coverage has been on lots of different media, but we've definitely traced closely the the MCU, especially. It's kind of funny, right? In the timelines, like we were definitely hardcore tracing it as of end game. And we've basically seen in slow motion the entire fall and talked about the trajectory forever. And it's only now that like it seems to be everybody's sort of realizing what's going on. All the people who like really love the MCU, all the people who are working on the MCU, which is we know that publicly, but they would have known as well a lot earlier than we would imagine because they get all the numbers directly. Yeah, there's always that element of at the company, like, regardless of what they say publicly, they know the numbers. They know the truth. Well, it's kind of like how every single DC film that's been coming out, there's been an amount of, I guess, outward cope that needs to be displayed. Yeah, you have to put on a strong face. The reality is Aquaman, it's the end and it's going to be unceremonious and probably not going to do very well and we're done and we're moving on. But we need to we're excited for the next chapter and Aquaman's thing. And he's such a great actor. And it's going to lead into it's going to lead nicely into our reap. Yeah, it'll they'll say all the stuff that I, you know, that you expect them to say, they're not going to be like, yeah, this one's going to be a shitter guy. Sorry, better luck. Yeah, like they're not they're not going to say don't don't even bother. It's it's not it's not relevant. It's pretty bad if I'm being honest. Yeah, and it's if you imagine where we were at, let's say post at the end of Infinity War, you have like a room filled. It's the it's the uncredits from Age of Ultron, all those statue-esque imagery of like all of the assets they have within the MCU. And they took a fucking hammer to them with each project. We've been smashing, smashing, smashing. It's just like there's nothing in the room left now. It's all gone. So no wonder you're at this position. Like we can I think a lot of people could be like, oh, is it truly down to like, oh, they didn't do better will building in Falcon the Winter Soldier? And it's like kind of like every individual piece of bad writing throughout all of those projects has added up is kind of the point. It's a snowball kind of you can imagine it like a snowball rolling downhill. It's just like that little line about Iron Man not taking care of the Avengers, like in retrospect, it's like, that's tiny. And it's just another bit on top of everything. I mean, yeah, I mean, at Avalanche is a lot of snowflakes. Yep. So next there was a forum post. I don't know exactly what Si was. I think it might have been 4chan. But it's basically someone who's got relative insider knowledge on each of the productions of all the movies in the MCU. And I was looking through all of the random tidbits of information. Some of it I didn't know about and don't know if it's true. Some of it I know to definitely be true thanks to insider stuff. And then some of it is just interesting factoids about the production. So instead of me posting all the images, I can just go the direction of having if you can pull up the stream, I guess, freeing right. Well, you don't have to. You can just listen to me saying them anyway. But it starts with good old wait. So if you want to, you don't have to the way this is going to work is I'm going to say the name of the film and then read out the factoids that are from this this forum post was kind of interesting. OK, I guess I guess the thing that they got it. So you said this is from 4chan, right? Potentially, yes. I'm not exactly sure what the forum is. But I mean, this is the 4chan is not a place where you don't get crazy leaks from people dump them on. I mean, I'm sure there's plenty of stuff that's just memes or just bullshit. Well, we'll see. I mean, I'd be curious what your thoughts will be once we get through all of these. I wonder what you'll think. Yeah, yeah. OK, I am. You are alternate post credits scene that was going to feature Nick Fury directly referencing radioactive spiders and assorted mutants as other cases that Shield was invested in or investigating, which I thought was interesting in terms of just the rights issues and they can still because do you remember there was there was a scene where Tony Stark was going to reference the arms he gave a doctor in New York or whatever? Or that that was originally going to be that there was an implication that Tony's yeah, there was going to be an implication that Tony Stark built the arms that Doc Ock has in Spider-Man 2. That would have been interesting, I suppose. I could like buy that as a premise. So just, you know, it's going to be a mix of things from this. But Tom Cruise was the original choice for Tony Stark with Timothy Oliphant, Sam Rockwell and Clive Owen being considered before Robert Downey Jr. was cast. I didn't actually know that. I knew the Tom Cruise one. I was thinking about like it's so crazy because in retrospect, Robert Downey Jr. is just the it just seems like the easy best choice. But apparently he was a fifth choice. Interesting. The movie was filmed mostly without a script with actors improvising most of their dialogue, which is stuff everyone knows. Production was so chaotic that the cast and producers expected the movie to be a disaster until test screenings were overwhelmingly positive. Again, it's kind of the thing we were talking about earlier. This sort of you could have like a damaged and difficult production, but it leads to something everyone loves. And then in retrospect, it looked like a scrappy and sort of big attempt to get a thing going and moving with lots of creative energy. But when it's the thing produces something bad, it's like seen as soulless, which I'm not saying is not true, because I'm pretty sure it is. Right? Like the production behind She-Hulk. I'm sure people were like happy when filming it. Probably. I mean, maybe they were all miserable. What with the VFX and the VFX people are always going to be miserable from what we can gather as other people's problem, not the people who showed up on set is the point that is banking. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, the actor probably had a good time because yeah, but the actors would be. Yeah. So, all right, over to Hulk. Norton demanded to rewrite the script, but most of his contributions were rejected and he frequently clashed with director Luis Latteria and the producers, which is pretty commonly known. He was a fan of the wire and added a subplot about a man played by Michael K. Williams, who reaches out to the Hulk during the Battle of Harlem. The subplot was almost entirely Curtin Williams' role reduced to a cameo. And this made me think about like Edward Norton's power when he was on when he was creating incredible Hulk. I wonder if he did have a pretty big amount of power, but he's still overstepped. You know what I mean? Yeah, maybe. Because this this is all sort of DNA of the issues in the MCU. There's loads of controversial and difficult things. Like it's all in or a lot of it is mentioned in the the reign of the MCU book. Yeah, because they never had like a it's almost sold as though the phase one and two times were like super smooth, peaceful and wonderful and that they nailed it because they planned it all. And it's like, no, no, absolutely not. Norton also added an extended comedic sequence where Banner interacts with a computer geek at his old laboratory, Seth Rogen, Jonah Hill and Jason Siegel were considered before Martin Star was cast and the scene was heavily trimmed. I don't even remember this. I don't remember this either. And I've seen that movie, I believe twice, maybe three times. Early draft feature Rick Jones as Banner's companion, but Norton disliked the character and wrote him out. Again, I didn't realize he had that kind of power. Maybe that was back in the yeah, because he was removed eventually, controversially as well as far as I'm aware. So it might have been that he managed to negotiate power in, but then I guess too much, which because you won't get that kind of power these days and it's part of what they I guess how they're falling apart. The movie originally featured Banner attempting suicide in the Arctic, but transforming into the Hulk and ended with shield finding a frozen Captain America after the Hulk had accidentally unearthed him. Then that sounds shit. That does sound shit. The question is, do I believe that? Do I even believe this? Yeah. Well, that's the thing. We already there's a couple of combos in here of things that actually are definitely true, but this this would be if it were true, it would be very shit. And maybe that's why it was cut theoretically or at least changed. Maybe it could have been an idea that they were tossing around. I mean, it's kind of that seems like in the same vein as the Iron Man dock dock thing. But I see like that one. Oh, wait, people just say it did happen. It's real. It's even online. You can find it. I didn't even know this was interesting. OK. Yeah. It's apparently deleted scene that was released. That sucks. Oh, wow. I wouldn't want that. I guess it's good as to lead. There you go. Early cuts feature Hulk decapitating abomination, which changed due to negative reception at test screenings. So that one more time. Early cuts featured Hulk decapitating abomination, which was changed due to negative reception at test screenings. Oh, yeah, I could see that being especially with its depiction, it might be. But that's like to me, that's like super dependent on what selection of people you have, because I could I could totally see an audience like imagine a lot of people saying, like, wait, you got to see Hulk rip off like abominations head. Yeah, I can see people saying that's fucking bad ass. You know, they might not want to they might because this is still pretty early on. So maybe they don't want to set up expectations for that kind of violence and imagery. Also, yes, I hope you Tim Roth dead at that point. We wouldn't get to see him in She-Hulk. She-Hulk, exactly. So, you know, really. Ray Stevenson was considered for Emil Blonsky before Tim Roth was cast. Well, Ray Stevenson abomination could have been kind of cool. But the thing is, I don't know, that that character has not exactly been treated well in the MCU at all anyway. No, you could join the club. Toby Maguire would originally cameos Peter Parker bumping into Banner at Empire State University, but Sony rejected the idea. Oh, well, it's just sort of funny things that probably happened all the time. Hulk would originally be the main villain of the Avengers, hence the ending where Banner flashes a sinister smile as he begins to transform again. Oh, that ending, that is something that has always been in the back of my mind without films. It does end with him like the heartbeats going up. He's about to turn into Hulk and he smiles. And it's like, what am I supposed to get from that? That he's in control or not? So, yeah, apparently that was going to lead into him being the Avengers bagger, at least I think it was controlled by Loki or something like that, which is kind of some of that bleeds into the actual Avengers script. Iron Man 2, the movie would originally launch Phase 2, but it was rushed into production to capitalize on the success of the first film. Jon Favreau planned to adapt Demon in a Bottle, but the studio felt it was too dark and replaced Stark's alcoholism with the Palladium poisoning. That's hard to know whether or not that would have been a good decision. Iron Man 2 is known as one of the worst films of the, let's say, Phase 1 and 2, I guess, but at this point, it's not exactly that bad compared to how bad it gets. No, nobody even, not anymore compared to what we're at now. Early cuts featured Stark striking Pepper in a drunken rage, which was cut as it made him too unsympathetic. Yeah, that's difficult. That's a bit, yeah, that's, I don't wanna see that. The only way you could get that to work is making him very drunk and her saying something like really, really rough, but even then, yeah, that's not gonna work for audiences too well. Well, I mean, like, think about the, at the beginning of Doctor Strange 1, him and his relationship with, like, that was, yeah, sure, but like they, like, you know, he was pretty mean to her, he was a real jerk, but he was going through, you know, a really rough time. So, like, I think that was a, you know, a decent job at. Yeah, he didn't punch her, which is, if he did, he would've been like, holy shit. He, I'll punch you with my fucked up hands. So, like, slaps at it, sort of. Like, a shitty little, I can only hit you so hard. And then even with all surgeries. You wouldn't be said that, I can only hit you so hard. First thing I do when I get my hands fixed is punch your lights out. Early cuts featured sexual tension between Stark and Black Widow, which was cut because it undermines Stark's relationship with Pepper, which is interesting, because I guess they mean more than is there, because there is a few references to that, but it's basically stopped as soon as she's Black Widow, or at least revealed, sort of thing. Terence Howard dropped out due to salary disputes, which was replaced by Don Cheadle, producer, Ike Pilmutter, claimed audiences wouldn't notice because all blacks look alike. Bro! Which is, you know, this is one of those ones that's like, gonna need citations for that one. I don't believe that one, I don't believe that one. There's no way, I don't believe that unless there's like a recording or something, because I just don't believe that. Yeah, I don't know if there's any corroboration for this from anyone else, but like that just, that's crazy, doesn't make any sense at all, because there's so many like famous black creators or artists at this point, what do you mean? Yeah, Jonathan Majors, Lawrence Fishburne, whatever, he is all the same, man. But people in chat are saying there are other sources that say this was true, not just, you know, like these are the places this is from. Mickey Rourke created an elaborate backstory for Vanco, but most of these scenes were cut. Rourke was displeased and sworn never to work with Marvel again. That's one of the ones that's more commonly known. He and several other actors have sworn off Marvel permanently after working with him. The cast improvised mostly dialogue again. Favre was unhappy with the movie due to the rush production and declined to direct and yet you came back for Star Wars. You came back for Star Wars and the Lion King, thanks bro. Well, it doesn't, isn't the picture painted so clearly that it's like, I can't work with you guys, you don't let people create and then eventually was like, well, I know what it means to work with you and I guess I'll do it. It's like, ooh, Thor, the movie was almost scrapped and Thor introduced in the Avengers as producers feared audiences wouldn't understand the character. I mean, what's to understand? It's not that complicated. I'm gonna be honest with you, out of Iron Man, Cap, Hulk and Thor, who is the easiest to understand? It's like, it's gonna be between Hulk and Thor, I would have thought. Probably. They're pretty straightforward. Even, I mean, yeah, he's a guardian god or whatever, but I don't know if that's much of a stumbling block for people. And I don't think so. The movie was originally a dark epic set in the Viking age, but this was scrapped due to budget. Sounds like it could be cool. Yeah. Early drafts feature Thor's human alter ego, Dr. Donald Blake, Thor's brother, Boulder, Loki's lover, Amora and Sif and Heimdall being siblings. Actually, in retrospect, I think they really should have had Boulder. Super big. Things like hostability and opportunity that's foregone, you know? Those in chat who don't know, they actually reference him in the Loki show, season two, pretty cringe. Loki says nobody even remembers him. It's like, okay. Yeah, whatever. Whatever you say, Loki. Brian Blessed and Mel Gibson were considered for Odin before Anthony Hopkins was cast. Mel Gibson, Odin. Oh, Gibson. Mel Gibson, Odin. Maybe. Maybe. Brian Blessed, I can just see. Yeah, that's easy. I can see Brian Blessed, yeah. Mel Gibson, maybe. I, okay, all right. Not gonna say no. But I mean, Anthony Hopkins, if I'm picking between the three, I know who I'm picking. Alexander Townsend was originally cast as Fandral, but was fired after showing up drunk on the first day of filming. Chris Pratt and Zachary Levi were considered to replace him before Josh Dallas was cast. Oh, showing up drunk on a set. Yeah, I'm skeptical of like those kinds of claims because you never know, but maybe. Yeah, all of these are contextless claims, but a lot of them come from sources that apparently people in chat are vaguely aware of anyway. Captain America. Channing Tatum, Alexander Skarsgard, Garrett Hedlund, Scott Eastwood, Scott Porter, Mike Vogel, Michael Castee, Chase Crawford, Chad Michael Murray, Patrick John Fluger, Robert Buckley, Derek Theeler, Ryan McPartland, Teddy Sears, Ryan, is that Philippe? That is his name, isn't it? I think so, or is it Philippe? I think it's Philippe. Wilson, Bethel, Jensenackels, John Krasinski, Wyatt Russell, Chris Pratt, and Sebastian Stan were all considered for Steve Rogers before Chris Evans was cast. That must have been fucking insane to figure out who was supposed to get that role. We have that. I feel like a lot of people could be like Captain America. Though I'm glad Chris Pratt is the one we got. Oh yeah, I really like him as Karen. I'm glad Chris Pratt, yeah, I'm really glad he's Captain America. Evans declined the role twice due to nine-picture contracts offered by the studio before agreeing once it was reduced to six. I think that one is basically like definitely true. I think I remember seeing something about that recently. The Avengers. The original script features field assembling the Avengers to fight Hulk who'd been brainwashed by Loki before they joined forces to defend Earth from Loki and Frost Giants. Very different. That seems like it could be real because it's like a retooling of stuff that we got. Yeah, I could buy that. Yeah. The early cuts feature Thor reviving Iron Man with lightning after Iron Man falls from the whim. Whole Robert Downey Jr. Macrofellow ad-libbed the Hulk roaring to awaken Iron Man. I think if Thor revived the Toadie Stark with a lightning bolt, we would be like, what the fuck? Like, it's not healthy. Joaquin Phoenix was approached for Bruce Banner before Macrofellow was cast. Man. Joaquin Phoenix Hulk. What a different timeline. That would have made me think that's true. He's another actor that I imagine if they actually signed him on, he wouldn't let them... No, he would have fought harder for the role. Iron Man 3. Maya Hansen would originally be the villain, but Ike Pilmutter didn't believe a female villain would sell toys and changed it to Eldritch Killian. Yeah, yeah, how about that? Well, the irony with that is just that Eldritch Killian sucks and I don't think anybody bought his toys. Maybe one or two people, I don't know. Yeah, how many people were eager for those toys? Early drafts feature Killian using extremists-enhanced pheromones to seduce pepper, record this sexual encounter, and broadcast it nationwide to taunt Stark. What the hell? I don't like Iron Man 3, but I think it's better that it doesn't have this in it. Geez. Iron Man 3 was the last movie in Robert Downey Jr.'s original four-picture contract and was written as a definitive end for Stark. Should he not renegotiate to return in further installments? I suppose that makes the ending a little more, like it makes it make more sense. Makes more sense, because I was so confused when I saw that in the theatre, I'm like, wait, is it over? Is that it for Iron Man? I still, even as a... I guess if you have to create an ending this open-ended, but also an ending, it's like, that's why it looks that way, but like, I didn't like that even knowing that. It's so fucking strange. No, I don't like it either. For the Dark World, Patty Jenkins was originally directing the movie on Natalie Portman's recommendation. She later dropped out due to creative differences and Alan Taylor was hired, leading Portman to almost drop out in protest. Production was troubled with multiple script rewrites and frequent conflicts between Taylor and the producers, which is, yeah, that's pretty well-known. Well-known. Patty Jenkins would have made it, and I'm sure it would have been great. Yeah. Ella would originally... Man, isn't it crazy how quickly she went from like being able to do whatever she wanted to she's like got nothing going on anymore? Yeah. She almost got the Rogue Squadron stuff. Yeah. Ella would originally be the villain, but Ike Pilmutter didn't believe a female villain would sell toys and changed it to Malekith. Well, okay. So is this stuff from that book? So I'm definitely seeing like summaries of that book, the new one that came out that included this sort of stuff. Some of this stuff I'm aware of before the book even came out, so. Okay, right. But some of it could very much be from the book. I just remember I read a summary of some important like factoids from the book and I definitely remember seeing a couple of these sorts of things. The thing I find funny again is that Malekith, he sucks. Nobody likes Malekith. No one remembers Malekith. Nobody likes Malekith at all. He was the villain from Thor 2. Thor 2. Yeah. Yes. The fact that you even know that means that you know better than the majority of people. Yeah, I'm almost proud of you to say that. And even then I was kind of so-so on it. I've seen that film once when it came out. But I guess I just remember it for some reason. In early drafts, Loki sacrificed himself for Thor, but due to characters newfound popularity after the Avengers, the ending was reshot to have Loki fake his death and usurp the throne of Asgard. Of course, yeah. Loki was almost out of the MCU from Thor 2. Wow, we wouldn't have had- Yeah, that's crannies, wild. Look at him go now. Motherfucker is the most important character in the whole universe. Yeah. Early drafts feature Malekith seeking revenge for a murder of his family at the hands of Thor's grandfather, Bohr. But the concept was scrapped. Chris Freckleston was displeased and swore to never work with Marvel again. Thor's grandfather's name is Bohr. Apparently. Okay. I'm not as familiar with Norse stuff. Early cuts feature Thor's rivalry with his warmongering cousin, Tyr, the commander of the Asgardian royal guard played by Clive Stamden. Most of his scenes were cut. Yeah, I mean, there's so much they could have obviously explored on the Norse side of shit, but the MCU was only ever playing with it slightly. It was never- Yeah. It was never terrible, but it's like, hmm, hmm, hmm. Benedict Cumberbatch and Mads Mikkelsen were considered for Malekith before Eggelson was cast. Oh, imagine Cumberbatch being Malekith. And then that's it for him. That's it, yeah. What if they still brought him back as Doctor Strange? Well, I mean, they brought- No one remembers him. No one remembers Malekith. I think they did that right. Gemma Chan played someone in Captain Marvel, but then they decided, wait, that's stupid. Let's get over something else. And then she got a turtle, which, you know, I don't know if that's up or down in terms of moving up the totem pole. Winter Soldier. Early drafts feature Phil Coulson as the Hydra Mole before he was killed in Avengers. Wow. Yeah. Imagine Phil Coulson today had to be evil. After all, that's just like fucking hell. It's so funny because they would have written that while Avengers was going on. They'd been like, oh, never mind. He's dead. Yep. Early drafts feature- I wonder how often that actually happens in the writer's room now. Why don't we get a, what is that Malekith? Why don't we bring him in? He's like, he's dead, sir. Did you watch the movies? Like, no. The what? I don't watch these movies. Nobody does. Early drafts feature Arnim Zola escaping from the bunker in a robotic body before it explodes. Um, okay. I'm picturing him like a terminator body. Just, he has that like epic jump as the bunker explodes. Yeah, that is technically not a super soldier. They were desperate to keep bringing back Zola. He was in the Agent Kata show as well. Oh. Guardians of the Galaxy. Nicole Pilman wrote the first draft of the script, which featured Richard Ryder becoming Nova and joining forces with Star-Lord to form the Guardians of the Galaxy and defend Xandar from Ronan the Accuser. Gun rewrote Pilman's script and attempted to get solo credit despite keeping many of Pilman's ideas, such as Star-Lord's love for 80s music leading to a lengthy WGA arbitration that saw them both credited for story and solely gun for the script. Interesting. That's interesting. I did not know about that, if that's true. Wow, I guess there was litigation that was reported on. Presumably is true, if it's called that, yeah. Pilman believed that the movie would flop and its failure would allow them to better control Kevin Feige. He was also against having a soundtrack of 70s, 80s classics. It is really funny, because, dude, I remember, I think I watched a video that was like, yeah, so phase two is going to have Guardians of the Galaxy. And I was like, what is that? Guardians of the Galaxy? I almost want to be fair to Pilman over this and be like, listen, this was an actual, like, what the hell? Not the soundtrack part. I feel like you're safe on that one. No, just the fact that it even exists, because I remember it's Amanda Sifere. He said that she was going to, she got offered Gamora, but she turned it down because she didn't want to be part of what she thought could be Marvel's first failure, like the MCU's first failure, which is interesting. What a different timeline. What's I think the most interesting thing is if it's true that if Guardians had failed, it's Pilmutter vs. Feige, which I've heard before. That seems to me, I've heard about that, yeah, that they were fighting for control of Marvel Studios, basically. Civil War is where Pilmutter is ousted, essentially, right? Yeah, as I understand it anyway. Early cuts feature Gamora reluctantly killing Nebula during the Battle of Xandar. Wow, that's a, so no Nebula. No Nebula, which she's super important with a bunch of future stuff. Oh, well, she was one of the better characters for a while there. Yeah. Age of Ultron. Production was troubled with multiple script rewrites and frequent conflicts between Joss Whedon and the producers, which again is pretty well known. Yeah, just well known, just, yeah, obviously. The original script features the government creating Ultron and disbanding the Avengers who have assembled once again when Ultron goes rogue and decides to destroy humanity. Government create Ultron and then disband the Avengers and they have to assemble to defeat Ultron. It's interesting, because that changes fucking everything. Yes, that changes everything that comes afterward. I wonder if fans would have hated, unless they had Hank Pym creating it with the government? Maybe people would have liked that more. Maybe, yeah, that's a very different story. Early drafts feature Ultron modeled after Tony Stark's neural patterns, abomination as Ultron's enforcer, Ultron invading Wakanda to steal Vibranium, Ultron drones combining to form a mecha Ultron for the final battle. Do you remember, do you remember that gap? The gagged family guy where Joe created like a mecha out of disabled people? Yeah, yeah, I was a little curious. And then he shot them with wheelchair like Gannon, said Peter. And Captain Marvel and Spider-Man were among the recruits for the new Avengers as early as Age of Ultron, eh? Which makes some sense, because Spider-Man is up next anyway, right, with Civil War. The subplot about Thor investigating Infinity Stones was added on executive demand, but later mostly cut as test audience disliked it. No surprise there. Nobody wants to watch the main plot and then suddenly Thor is looking out for Stones. It's like, okay. Yeah. The Avengers visions in Hawkeye's farmhouse were nearly cut to streamline the plot and tighten the pacing, which again, yeah. Man, but I mean, you cut that, you do lose like a lot of stuff. I wouldn't be willing to cut the Avengers visions. The Hawkeye farmhouse stuff, there's probably a better way to, it does last a bit, especially Hawkeye's seems. Yes, that's, well, because I mean, he did it to, I mean, the angle was, yeah, Hawkeye's the heart of the team. It's like, come on, man. Yeah, that was cringe, that scene. Because it's so overcompensating for the first one, which it was, his role in the first one was fine. It didn't need to be bigger. It was fine. You had a movie to make. A lot of characters, I get it. In early cuts, Banner would ultimately reject Black Widow and she would trigger his transformation into Hulk by lying about having never truly loved him. What? That feels like something that you'd have to work long and hard to get me to buy. I'm glad they changed it, because that sucks, I think. Whose idea was that? Don't know. In early cuts, Loki appeared in Thor's vision to warn him about Ragnarok, but this was cut as test audiences mistakenly assumed it meant Loki was controlling Ultron. What, okay. I don't even know how you'd make that mistake. Yeah. But okay. Oh, wait, let's, all right. And now, we're up to Civil War. And through this timeline, quick. Early drafts feature a larger role for Spider-Man and a smaller role for Black Panther when the deal between Marvel Studios and Sony Pictures initially fell through. Black Panther's role was expanded. Marvel and Sony later reached an agreement and Spider-Man was reinserted in a smaller role. I find that super interesting because Black Panther is super important to Civil War. Like, the story in there is really good. It's a good character too. Yeah, and I just, I like the amount that was used for both of them. Ike Pilmutter initially refused to pay Robert Downey Jr. for more than a cameo before Feige managed to overturn his decision. During the period where Iron Man was unavailable, the Russo's created an alternate third act centered on Baron Zemo searching for a biological weapon, the mad bomb, which compels people into murderous rampages. Civil War was gonna be very different at certain stages. Yeah, I mean, we've heard the comic book version. Yeah, Pilmutter initially refused to have Captain America and Iron Man fight and demanded that they join forces against Zemo and the Hydra super soldiers in the end, leading to a conflict with Feige that ended with Marvel Studios splitting off from Marvel Entertainment and Pilmutter being reassigned to the television department while Feige gained complete control over the movies. There it is. It's the big split, which is interesting because the fight between Cap and Iron Man in Civil War is fucking great and it's coming in because of, it's a reaction to Batman vs Superman, right? A little bit, a little bit. They need something that can compete with it. And it's like, yeah, the Civil War storyline is getting pulled and pushed all over the place by different people. And I guess something snapped and they had to make a decision. Pilmutter also demanded that Giant Man be removed from the script for being too silly. The Russo's created an alternate version of the airport scene with Scarlet Witch telekinetically blows up the underground pipeline to create a diversion for Captain America and Winter Soldier to escape before Feige overturned Pilmutter's decision. I don't know why I think Giant Man is too silly. Yeah, I'm not sure why I think that at all. Yeah, never came across to me as silly. I'm pretty sure fans love that part. It's like reasonable use of his powers and his abilities, you know? One of the favorite moments of that film for a lot of people. Early cuts feature an alternative opening where Ozimo obtains a notebook with Bucky's trigger phrases by killing a tendency of an underground auction for hydro assets with poison gas. Which sounds fine. That's probably good work. Doctor Strange. Early cuts feature a darker tone that was poorly received by test audiences leading to reshoots to add more humor. Ah, cool, thanks. How many times have we heard that? It's such a common thing of it was cool and then test audiences did like it. They made it labor. Have we ever heard that a movie was too funny and they had all like too goofy? I'm not sure if I've ever seen a thing like that. Maybe tonally is the closest you can get to that. Like people felt like it was poorly, like the tone was off. Well, yeah, that's why it's like goofy, right? Like as a test audience ever said, like, no, you need to make this more serious. I don't know. So I always hear about them saying you need to make it more funny. Yeah, exactly. It's only ever it's too dark. It's too serious to be more funny. Early cuts feature a subplot about stranger sister Donna, who falls into a frozen lake while they're playing together and drowns despite his attempts to save her, motivating strange to study medicine. Lulu Wilson played Donna, but all of her scenes were cut. Would have benefited. It would have benefited MOMs to have that day in the film. Yeah, I felt like he pulled it out of his ass. He's like, this is a story about my daughter that motivated me to want to save people. Like, oh. His sister, you mean? Oh, sorry. Yeah, his sister. Benedict Cumberbatch initially declined the role of Stephen Strange due to scheduling conflicts. Mads Mikkelsen, Joaquin Phoenix, Jared Leto, Jake Gyllenhaal, Tom Hardy, Colin Farrell, Ethan Hawke, Jack Huston, Oscar Isaac Keanu Reeves, Matthew McConaughey, Ewan McGregor, Justin Thoreau and Ryan Gosling were all considered. Wow, all right. What a selection. I'm curious about a Mads Mikkelsen Doctor Strange, man. That would have been. The multiverses of all the different actors we've gotten for these characters. That would have been wild. Tony Todd was considered to voice Dormammu before Cumberbatch himself was cast. I didn't actually know Cumberbatch did voice Dormammu. Oh, yeah, he did, he did, oh. Tony Todd would have been a good choice, too, though. Oh, yeah, he's got a cool voice, but there he is minimum in the game. Guardians of the Galaxy 2. Jason of Spartax would originally be Star Lord's father, but Joss Whedon argued that being the heir to an intergalactic empire would make Star Lord less relatable. I'm not sure where I'd sit on that. Yeah, I got nothing for that, really. Because the whole, I don't think it changes anything about how we relate to Star Lord, because it would obviously, he wouldn't, you know, he wouldn't have affected him. He wouldn't have to change his history or his character, he is who he is. Yeah. Director James Gunn added ego as Star Lord's father before learning that the character's rights belonged to 20th Century Fox. The studio eventually traded ego to Marvel Studios in exchange for changing Negasonic Teenage Warhead's powers in Deadpool. What an interesting deal. That's an interesting deal. We will give you ego if you give us a change to... Specifically, different powers for one of the characters in Deadpool. Yeah. It's... Ike Pilmutter was against ego being the villain as he believed audiences wouldn't accept Kurt Russell in such a role. Why didn't there so many of them? Ike Pilmutter had some bizarre perspective. Maybe we're only hearing about the bizarre ones and he made lots of normal ones too. Maybe. Because that is, like, isn't that part of why it works? That he's charming? It would be because Kurt Russell is like the villain. I mean, yeah, exactly. What I'm saying is like, you can believe that ego got to where he was because he's good at manipulating people and that Kurt Russell's charming. That's like why it works. Exactly. Early Cuts feature a sixth post-credits scene. I don't know, sixth. Sixth? In which Gamora and Mantis hear the screams of one of the ravages who appears by Yondu's arrow and has presumably been forgotten and is screaming in agony since then. What? Okay. But why? Early Cuts feature Star-Lord pointing out that ego looks like one of his favorite actors, Kurt Russell, indicating that ego deliberately adopted Russell's appearance to earn Star-Lord's trust. No. I don't think so. I don't want that. What would you guys argue is why you shouldn't do that? There's something about it that just seems like strange. Yeah, it's like my gut instinct is like no way. And then there's an element where I'm like, like the specific reason. I feel like it's starting to acknowledge that now what about all the other people who play these roles, but now they're real people too in this world. Yeah, I would say it's just one little notch on the level of reminding me about the real world or connecting us to it. It's like, don't stop. We've got plenty and we don't need that. Matthew McConaughey was approached to play ego, but ultimately declined and Kurt Russell was cast at Chris Pratt's suggestion. Liam Neeson and Gary Oldman were also considered. Yeah, I feel like Kurt Russell is the best out of the lot for that role. I would say. He did a great job. Spider-Man Homecoming. Peter would originally accept Stark's offer and reveal his secret identity to the world, which would be in line with the comics, right? Civil War comics? And the comics is for Civil War, right? He revealed his identity, but yeah. But obviously, I prefer the decision in the arc that he goes on. Early Drafts featured Tooms. Yeah, I'm very happy with that. Adrian Tooms is gonna be Peter's teacher, not Liz's father, which I think could work. You'd have to retool a hell of a lot, though. Yeah. Early Drafts feature Happy Hogan telling Peter that Stark told him to tell Peter something about how with great power comes dot, dot, dot, but wouldn't be able to remember the rest of the phrase. Oh, don't. Yeah, don't make a joke out of that, please. No. Thank God they didn't go with that. Yeah. Michael Keaton initially declined the role of Adrian Tooms due to scheduling conflicts, but Marvel Studios is able to accommodate a schedule. Michael Shannon and John Leguizamo were also considered. I mean, I don't know. I really like Michael Keaton as Vulture. Michael Keaton did a great job. I just found it. Just him in that car. Watching more of him. I really like Michael Keaton as an actor, anyway. Like, he's just, he's a good actor. He's a really good actor. He just nails it every time. So like Michael Shannon and John Leguizamo, maybe, but I'm sorry, guys. I don't know if you can. I don't know if you can do Michael Keaton. I only think of John Leguizamo as Sid the Sloth. That's fair. Thor Ragnarok, the original script had a darker tone, but Waititi decided to write a new draft when he signed on. Not a surprise. Early cuts feature Thor and Loki finding Odin living as a deranged hobo in the streets of New York after his retirement home was demolished and he'd die in a seedy alleyway whereupon Hella would arrive to confront Thor and Loki. Test audiences responded negatively to Odin's death and the scene was scrapped in favor of Odin sharing a tender moment with his sons and meeting a dignified end in the fjords of Norway. I think that one's true. That's wild that they were gonna have Odin fucking die as a hobo in an alleyway. Wow, I can't believe they didn't have that. Yeah, because someone's mentioned it. I think it was in one of the trailers where Hella first appears. She's in like an alleyway, but obviously in the movie it's in Norway. Good God, man. Damn. Tyker. Tyker, what are you doing? Did they, do you think it was that they'd stop this but then they gave him full control with love and thunder? So all the bad ideas. And then you get infinity codes, that's what you get. This is true to mythology, sorry. He died in an alleyway in New York. In an alleyway? Yeah, the Vikings are all about it. If you mean that Hella shows are. Or do they mean in the comics? Oh, well, I don't care. That sounds awful. It's, that would be incredibly difficult to do well. You, it's really hard to move everyone away from thinking that Odin just fucking like had a heart attack in an alleyway. Oh yeah, yeah, the Norse myths in the poetic editor. It's just like and Thor dying drunk in an alleyway. Odin dying drunk in an alleyway. It would be funny if this was Norse mythology though. They were very predictive. You know, if they were predicting shit like that, I'd be like, damn, maybe there's something to it. So this is the interesting part. Anthony Hopkins originally declined to return due to poor experiences filming Thor the Dark Wild, but was won over by Waititi's unconventional approach for the project. All right, I guess he probably liked the idea of playing goofy. Or did maybe? Maybe, yeah. Cause I will say, obviously that's one of our, like that's one of my favorite jokes in all of the MCU is Anthony Hopkins playing Loki playing Odin. Oh shit. Yeah. So fucking funny. I could buy that he was tempted by that. And they were like, that's, that's essentially like half the role already. Like the other half is saying goodbye. Yeah, you don't have to show up much. Black Panther. Kugler wanted to use Craven in the movie, but couldn't because the characters rights belonged to Sony. Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah. Now some of these are short cause the factoids was rather like meh in terms of just stuff we know. Infinity War. Valkyrie would lead half the Asgardians to safety during Thanos' attack. Oh, I mean, it is a odd thing, right? Of like, cause it was kind of something that was looming. It's like, wait, where are the other, where is she? Where is West? It's kind of awful to think about the Asgardians cause their world has just been ravaged over and over again. Their population just, you know, scattered and destroyed over and over again. And then their fate is to just be made fun of in Love and Thunder. Yeah. Yeah. I hate it. Yeah. Iron Man would wear Doctor Strange's cloak of levitation and Doctor Strange would wear Iron Man's armor to fight Ebony Mora aboard the Q ship. Yeah, I don't know about that. I'm not sure. It depends on the context for how that would have worked cause obviously the nanotech can form around anybody. There's a way this could function, but I don't know. It seems a little too slapdash. Yeah, you'd have to, the idea of the Iron Man's, yeah. Doctor Strange is in a position where he's about to die. Those spikes are all going into him. He's about to die. And Iron Man thinks the only way I can save him is to throw the nanotech to him to protect him like as a suit of armor. And then Iron Man's fucked and Ebony Mora's about to kill him. And then the cloak goes over to Iron Man and saves him. Like I can, there's something. I was like, you can maybe make it work temporarily, but it's going to be pretty forced. Maybe they do something where he puts the Iron Man suit on someone else so that they think it's him. That's another kind of way you could do something. Yeah, and that's like, because they can do the voice changing thing, he could be, he could do that no problem. And then the suit opens up and, oh, shit. It's Doctor Strange. Or, you know, maybe, maybe. The real Tony Stark is doing something else. You know how they blow the hole? And then like, maybe it's that, I don't know, like he gets blasted out into space so he's got to send the suit out to save him. Oh, yeah, something like that. There are ways. It's just that we would all be like, okay, you wanted them to switch there. Yeah, I get it. Sorry. The Banner and Hulk would merge into Professor Hulk and burst out of the Hulk Buster during the battle of Wakanda. Yeah, that's just absolutely true. That's just unknown. There's the, it seems people have seen with the unfinished CG that it's just like, why the fuck wasn't this in the movie? Why did you, I mean, it's already not good enough honestly, but like, you know. Way better than nothing, though. It's better than him just showing up and then dabbing. Oh, that's it. Wow, Fringy, Fringy, are you not a fan of the dab? I'm not a fan of it, but when he does it. Oh, Thanos would wear a tear, Drax and Mantis' souls from their bodies and Doctor Strange would have to retrieve them while Spider-Man protects their bodies. Oh, because he had the souls. That's kind of cool. There's something there. I like, Doctor Strange has to go to like, some kind of spiritual realm, obviously. Maybe to the astral. Plain, yeah. And there's a lot of visual you can do there and like, creatures trying to get a hold of Drax and Mantis, he has to save them. And then, you know, at the same time, in a similar environment, kind of like how Lord Zavola does it. You have Spider-Man protecting the bodies from just Thanos' attacks in general. That could be something that's pretty cool. Yeah. Captain Marvel would join the Battle of Titan after following Thanos' trail of destruction across the galaxy and survive alongside Iron Man, Nebula and Nova. But they delayed her appearances, which this was mentioned as a thing, that there was cuts that she had more of a role, but they reduced it. Well, I mean, I'd be reducing it as much as possible. We'd be removing it. This is a great thing to play harder. Well, yeah, but if they told me I had to put her in, it'd just be probably what they did in Endgame, get her out of the way. And then, yeah, she shows up. Well, maybe it would just be the thing where she just shows up late. Remember when Professor Frigg showed up late for the short stories of Springfield? Yeah. Just have that Peter Frigg. Yes, early. Wait, wait, wait. As the credits start rolling, Professor, I guess, Captain Marvel, make you laugh, make you think. That monkey is going to pay. Wait, what was it? Was it the monkey or I? I can't remember, but I know you eat the credits play over and talk at jazz. Funny as shit. Ant-Man and the Wasp. Early drafts feature an alternate third act where monsters from the quantum realm escape into the world and begin wreaking havoc. One would damage the Golden Gate Bridge, forcing Ant-Man and his giant form to use his arms as a ramp for cars to drive over and reach safety. You know what? Why the fuck not? Yes, throw it in. Just do whatever. I mean, at least he can be a hero and use his powers and stuff. Captain Marvel. Keanu Reeves was originally cast as Yon-Rogg, but dropped out due to scheduling conflicts and was replaced by Jude Law. I don't know if that, what would that even, would that give the film more like, would people be like, ooh, Keanu Reeves, like, does he have enough star power to like flip it at all in terms of. I don't know. I don't know, Keanu Reeves, probably not. But yeah, that's a bullet dodge from Keanu Reeves there. Yeah. Instead he got to be John Wick. Well, that's obviously been better for his career than being Yon-Rogg. Oh yeah, absolutely. Avengers Endgame. The Avengers would spare old Thanos. I've heard this from a couple of other places as well. I'm not sure how it works. They just leave him on his little planet, I guess. I don't know. You feel like that feels unfinished a little, but sure, maybe. Thor would become a bloodthirsty intergalactic warrior hunting down what's left of Thanos' army. Yes, why didn't they do this? On his sword. No, Fat Fortnite player. Fat Fortnite. Fortnite. Thor, Fat Knight. Yeah, so. Well, they call him Fat Thor Knight. This is just sad, the idea, because I can believe this was totally the initial idea because it just matches the end of Infinity War. It makes total sense and I guess maybe someone said bad. That's a bit dark, isn't it? God damn it, it's one of the things that I hate so much about a fucking movie. Who's perfect? Who's perfect? I cannot believe that got approved. Yeah. What, Fat Thor playing Fortnite? War Machine and Nebula would retrieve the power stone from an underwater temple filled with sea monsters in Morag, 2014. Okay, that doesn't really mean anything to me at all. What a monster, it just sounds kind of funny, like. Yeah. Okay, Black Widow and Hawkeye would fight Thanos' army in 2014, Volmer and Hawkeye sacrifices himself to grant Black Widow the soul stone. I remember there was talks about whether or not it was gonna be, it was tough to figure out which one of those two would die. That's a tough choice, cause both of them work. It's like the only thing in that film that I would consider just categorically, unequivocally, like, excellent. Sometimes I wonder with stuff like that, if it really does come down to like, well, do we just flip a coin, guys? Kind of, I mean, that's not even that bad if you really do feel 50-50 on it, you know, for payoffs. Hank Pinn and Janet Van Dyne would join the final battle in their original suits and an army of giant ants. I wonder if they were like, there's just too much stuff going on. Yeah, maybe. I would have liked to see him in his Ant-Man suit at least one more time though, but I don't even know if we'll get to see him at all anymore. I don't know if that's gonna be an Ant-Man for this, right? No. Oh, I thought you meant like, they don't make suits anymore. All right, that's one, yeah. Falcon and Winter Soldier would fight Corvus Glaive in the final battle, Doctor Strange and Scarlet Witch would fight Ebony Moore, and Hulk would fight Thanos in the final battle. Oh my God, Rematch, round two. They fucking didn't do it though, did they? No, they didn't, so it's not worth anything. No, it was just, it's just the kind of stuff where sometimes you wonder like, how do you miss out on a payoff like that? It's like they didn't, they knew it and then they cut it or they just moved on from it because I don't know, time, CG, whatever. The original six Avengers would sacrifice themselves to defeat Thanos together. Oh, what, like a sort of guy into the galaxy pay off? Like all of them. But they all die, I don't know, that sounds crazy. I don't think I'd do that. Well, I think if it's six people, then they shouldn't die. It just feels like if it was all six of them, then they would have been fine, you know? Yeah, I'm trying to, like how would that work? I guess Iron Man has the glove on them and they all hold him sort of thing or something. But I guess that's what I'm saying. It feels like it should be like Guardians, right? Where that's, unless someone in chat said a stone for each. Maybe, yeah. I don't know if this is true though, like is this? Well, that can't even work if you've had Hulk. Or I guess you could argue Hulk was at like half health or something and so it killed him. But again, I don't know about this. I figured that it was always the plan for Tony to die. Well, my point of view on this would just be that, I don't know if that's too much of a waste. In a perfect world with the elements who didn't fucking fall apart, killing all six of those characters, I'd be like, I don't know. Just cutting off potential future stories. Yeah, just the poisonous standpoint is like, oof. Well, creative standpoint. There's so many stories to tell. I don't even necessarily think it's time for Tony Stark to die, you know? But like that one works. It's just that, you know, we're in a world where we can't get all of his stories far from home. Early drafts feature the real Nick Fury and Maria hell, but they were later changed into Talos and Soren, masquerading as Fury and hell to justify how Mysterio was able to deceive them, which is kind of funny because that was, I think when we saw it, I legit was like, oh, that makes more sense. Like, because Fury isn't stupid, but then with a secret invasion, it was Talos that was the smart one and Fury that's stupid. But Talos did everything. All of his accomplishments were Talos's. So it just goes to show the mindset has changed. WandaVision, the series would originally follow the Falcon and Winter Soldier, but was moved up as filming was further along when COVID started, which, yeah, we know that. The series would originally have 10 episodes. The final two episodes could not be finished due to the release change and were re-edited into one for release. Yeah, that's a, that's scant. Well, the further the show goes on, the more weird it gets in terms of just like clearly rushing whatever the hell's going on. The writers considered bringing back Aaron Taylor-Johnson as Quicksilver before deciding to use Evan Peters as a gag. Well, yeah, and that was a stupid idea. That was one of the bigger hits to the overall reputation of the MCU because people were like, you used him as a gag? And it's like, uh-oh. People thought it would be meaningful. It wasn't. Dr. Strange would originally be trying to contact Wanda through the WandaVision commercials. Oh, such a shame because that would have been cool. Yeah. Oh, well. Can't be having him in there. The finale originally featured Dr. Strange meeting Wanda to set up Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, but this was cut when the movie was delayed to 2022. I mean, that's, yeah, that's just like a logistics problem for the fucking narrative at that point. It's all screwed up. Black Widow, early drafts features appearances by Captain America, Iron Man, Hawkeye, and Nick Fury. Oh, wow. Pro would have helped the film, you know? People would be like, ooh. Taskmaster was originally Tony Masters, a missionary employed by the Red Room to train the Black Widows. He was changed into Antonia Drakov to give Taskmaster an emotional connection to Natasha Romanov. You know that that's a very emotional connection. What a dumb fucking decision. Why wouldn't it be, why, why, why, why? As if you need to have a direct relationship between her and Taskmaster. But I could believe that when they'd be like, yeah, that's good writing is what that is. He can't just be a person who comes into conflict with her. You can't just be a, well, we talked about it. He should have been, if not, you know, in phase four as a whole thing. Yeah, it's just cool. He's a mercenary, works for money. That's as strict as that. Yeah. Drakov would originally be executed by the Black Widows, but this was considered too violent and changed to Yelena blowing up his plane. All right, okay. I don't know about that. I mean, I feel like it's how you do it. Yeah, you could probably, if they all surrounded him and he's just here screaming, you know, that's not violent. Or closed, or at least, yeah. If they got cleaned and he was in the room, then they all came to their senses and then, yeah, it was like, it's all in the depiction. It's such a crazy loop. The matter of connection, though, of the whole like it's too dark. Like, maybe you guys could just fucking afford to be a little darker. I mean, The Lion King, which is an animated film that was knowingly made with many of the people watching it being children and ends with Scar getting fucking killed by a bunch of hyenas as he's engulfed in flames. Yeah. You know? And like, that wasn't considered too violent. And that's, you know, yeah, I don't know. What happened to you? This is a great question. What happened? Falcon the Winter Soldier. The series would originally have eight episodes and precede WandaVision, which changed due to COVID pandemic. A storyline. Yeah, that's the story. Yeah. A storyline scrapped due to pandemic reportedly featured the flag smashes attempting to use a bio weapon to wipe out half of Earth's population. Oh God, because they were, because I liked the Thanos world. So that was their plan, was it? Could you fucking imagine? Man, I mean, unfortunately, I could imagine that that was, wasn't it said that because of like COVID pandemic that things did change and that there was certain, you know? Yeah. Like, the subject matter changed because of that. I guess what I've got is just like, what is happening in your head where you think you can make the flag smashes and want to wipe out half of Earth's population and you get people to be like- And you still want the audience to be somewhat sympathetic, so they're like, remember- He was like, you can't call Carly a terrorist. It's like, okay. Should have just called him Hamas and people would have liked him. Fucking nuts. Early drafts feature John Walker as an ambitious and belligerent soldier who believes himself to be better than Steve Rogers and antagonizes Sam Wilson and Bucky Barnes. I find this funny because the implication is that he's not those things in the show, even though everyone treats him as though he is, those things. Like, he is obsessed with himself. He could driven and antagonize everybody when- The thing, our guy, Mr. Walker over there, he's probably gonna get ruined further on, but... It's just nice, you know? It's nice that he made it out of that show, that's all. There were plans to give Sam the power to talk- There were plans to give Sam the power to talk to birds and the ability to throw the shield with his wings. Plans to have given the power to talk to birds. That was a bad guy, summons the birds! This is when we're just like, no, no, no, no. Don't away. Talk to birds. Don't away. I don't buy that one for a second. Where the fuck did that even come from? There were plans to feature New York City heroes such as Spider-Man during the final battle against the smag flashes. Is this smag flashes? Yeah, we talked about that. Where the fuck was Spider-Man? But oh well. He was talking to birds! No, he's talking to spiders. Spider-Man! The new title was originally Captain America and the White Wolf, but producers felt that it could confuse audiences. That one's true. Yeah, no one fucking thinks of him as the White Wolf. Yeah, but I don't care. I would have committed if it were me. But it's too narratively relevant. This whole point, he's not the Winter Soldier anymore. He doesn't want to be the Winter Soldier. The Winter Soldier's a horrible, missionary. Why would it confuse audiences? Well, like Rags just said, nobody knows everyone knows him as Winter Soldier, not as the White Wolf. But the whole point of that show is to move him from X to Y, so. Why would- Yeah, you know. Loki! The series would originally have only one season and follow Loki as he manipulates Earth's history to his benefit. Early drafts feature Loki escaping shortly after the TVA captures him, because of course he would. Exploring the timeline, assembling the Infinity Gauntlet and conquering the universe. But he cannot enjoy it due to knowing there's no free will and ultimately surrenders to the TVA once again. The only edit I would need to make to that to buy it is that he surrenders himself, because he wants to take over the TVA. Yeah. That seems like it's way more in line with his actual character. Well, yeah, this is- I would have watched that 100% more, yeah. Early drafts feature all Loki variants trapped in the void, joining forces to defeat Alioth, the big fart cloud, because they all refuse to let one of them be better than the others. Okay. Giancarlo Esposito was considered for classic Loki before Richard E. Grant was cast. Oh, okay. I don't know if- I mean, I thought Richard E. Grant was pretty, he was a pretty great part of that terrible, terrible show. I'm trying to pick, like, I don't know, I guess I'm a little bit biased against him at this point, because he just wasted and fucking everything they ever hire him for. But maybe he would have been good, but I don't know, Richard E. Grant was kind of perfect, so, but it doesn't surprise me at all that they, I'm sure he's considered for every fucking villain or partial villain role they ever have. Very much. Shang-Chi. He's a totally goss. Yeah. Ant-Man would originally appear as both he and Shang-Chi live in San Francisco. I love these, like, statements that are just obviously they should happen, but then they just don't, like, oh, okay. Early drafts feature Shang-Chi and Katie becoming a couple. Okay. I think, yeah. Early cuts feature Razor Fist, sacrificing himself to save Katie during the Battle of Tal-Lo, giving her the necessary strength to injure the Dweller in darkness with her enchanted arrow. How? Did you know the Dweller is the name of one of the mage people in Rings of Power? One of the white people, one of them was. Wow. Yeah, that's thrilling. So just so everyone knows, obviously not the YouTuber, Razor Fist, but the, now it is, the character with the blade on his arm that's super cool. He sacrifices himself for Katie. Don't know why that would happen. And then that gives her the necessary strength to injure the big dragon thing. That movie wasn't fantastic. I'll just leave that there. Eternals. Early drafts feature the love triangle between Icarus, Cersei, and Druig that led to Druig's departure. The actors improvise the romance between Druig and Makari. Unfortunately, Fringy literally just left. He's the only one that could actually acknowledge this, because me and Ranks haven't seen Eternals. We've already heard his summary of it, so all right. Earlier cuts feature the bleaker alternative ending where Arashim recaptures the Eternals, erases their minds as punishment for their rebellion and sends them to a distant planet to prepare for another emergence, but it was poorly received by test audiences. That one doesn't surprise me. If you had the entire journey that all the characters went on in a film, erased from their memory at the end, and then they sent to a different planet, that does feel a little bit anticlimactic, I guess. Yeah, I'd be like, what, okay, all right. Yeah, I was like, what the fuck? It's like the anti-No Way Home. Alternative versions of the mid-credits scene featured Cersei, Kingo, and Fastos being recruited for the Avengers or confronted by Kang. How interesting. Orc Eye. The project would originally be a movie before becoming a television series. This has happened in both directions many, many times. Yeah, I'm sure those kinds of things, they discuss all the time, all the Marvel people, and like, a movie, TV show, how are we gonna blur money this time? Early cuts feature an alternative mid-credits scene where Kingpin, blinded but alive after being shot by Maya receives Ronin's sword as a warning from Barton not to threaten his family. Good God, I don't even know if this would make it better or worse. It's the whole like Kingpin from the Daredevil show where Rags is played by, fuck, why am I blanking on the actor's name? That's unfortunate. Funny enough, we saw him recently, Rags, in rings. He was the bad guy in rings. He was the Donoffrio, that's it. Vincent Donoffrio. Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, we watched rings, everybody. It sucked. Yes, but he's brought in as Kingpin and killed, as far as people know, in the original version, but this version, he's blinded but alive after being shot in the face, I guess. This is obviously what people want for Kingpin. Spider-Man, no way home. The original script featured Kirsten Dunst, Mary Jane Watson, Emma Stones, Gwen Stacy, both versions of Aunt May, played by Rosemary Harris and Sally Field in the original J. Jonah Jamison played by J. K. Simmons. Yep, I think this was all stuff people are aware of. They would have been playing with all kinds of keys with that film and get them all in. The original script featured six villains before Sony decided to save the Sinister Six for later and Dane DeHans, Green Goblin, Paul Giamatti's Rhino, Michael Keaton's Vulture, Jake Gyllenhaal's Mysterio and Craven were considered for the sixth villain. Craven, the Hunter. I mean, well, he's getting his own movie now. Everyone's very hyped for that. Who's gonna be in the movie with him? Is he paired with a hero or is he supposed to be like our entire output's wagonist or? I feel like Safreen would be able to answer that question because now I'm wondering, who's in the Craven film, everybody? It's not like Spider-Man or Venom, right? Is nobody? Unfortunately, due to... No, I can't say it, never mind. Fringy, who's in the Craven film? Anybody we know or is it just Craven? Russell Crowe. No, like characters. What, Russell Craven? And Calypso, I think, and... Wow. Well, all right. The original script for No Way Home was set after Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness and featured America Chavez casting the spell and Spider-Man needing Doctor Strange's book of spells to send the villains home. This is basically all but confirmed. And this is a strict improvement. There was concept art. Yeah, this is better. Instead of please, I want people to not know about this so change the whole world's mind. This kind of does a couple of things. America accidentally casting a done-ass spell that can do serious damage is good for her character almost because she's boringly like lame. But you can have that weighing on her. And then you take it away from Doctor Strange having been responsible for the fucking spell, and then you have Spider-Man is tangentially related and he needs Strange's help to get the villains home while Strange's goal will be to just get rid of them. Like, you know, that creates the conflict between us. Like, this sounds like it makes a lot more sense that this was the foundation of the film, compared to what we got. Yep. Maguire asked for minimal reveals about his Peter Parker's life after Spider-Man 3 while Garfield suggested his Spider-Man went down a darker path after the death of Gwen Stacy in Amazing Spider-Man 2. Well, you fool. Darker is worse as we've known across this. That's right. It has been indicated by test screenings in that pearl-modded guy. More jokes. In Early Draft, Strange would recruit the Spider-Man to help Tom Holland's Peter Parker. They would visit classic moments from Maguire and Garfield's films during their fight. Yeah, I don't need that. No, I don't need it. I remember the movies. Thanks. In Early Drafts, Holland's Peter would ask Adrian Toomes for help procuring the necessary technology to cure the villains. That was always a tough problem to solve because they got the... What was it called? The fabricator or whatever? That machine that just can solve any problem by creating anything? The magical cure-all machine, which is not great. Not great. In Early Drafts, the Green Goblin would mind control the other villains and the final battle would revolve around freeing them from his influence. How would Green Goblin control their minds? Well, his sci-fi, magic, whatever. He makes a serum, he stabs him with a thingy, and it's uncontrolled juice, and it doesn't seem like his wheelhouse. Early Drafts featured post-credits scenes of the Spider-Man returning to their own universes. Probably don't need that. Moon Knight. Early Cuts features Spectre confronting his mother, Wendy Spectre, in a field of reeds and alternating between himself and Grant as he overcomes his trauma and manages to forgive her. This is tough for us because you don't have to try and remember. Like all these names are. Whether or not that would... Because it was his mother's abuse that traumatized him, right? Yes, he adopted alternate personality, yeah. And so would... It was a defense mechanism against his mother's abuse. And I think there's something about the mother dying or them being estranged in some way and not having catharsis on that relationship that maybe seems appropriate for the kind of tragedy of his familial situation. Yeah, and it would depend on whether or not we're supposed to assume that would actually be her or is that something that he's projecting or something? No idea. Yeah, I'm not sure. Early Drafts feature Harrow and Amit invading London with a pyramid emerging in Trafalgar Square with lightning and sandstorms ravaging the city. I can totally believe that's true. Well, look at what they put in the actual show. Look, a pyramid right in Trafalgar Square. Isn't that incredible? Wow. Kaiju fight at the Giza. And the pyramids, yeah. MOM time. Scott Derrickson would direct, would drop out due to scheduling conflicts. Mike Flanagan and Jennifer Kent were considered to replace him before Sam Raimi was hired. Oh, wow. The guy that Mike Flanagan would have replaced, it's like, yeah, but you would have been... It would have been novel, right? Yeah, I don't know what that looks like. Because I wonder... I wanna know what it looks like. Yeah, because it depends on what port... Yeah, I would have loved to have seen the difference because we could even see by looking at Mike Flanagan and Sam Raimi's differences, which things were set in stone, like the things they both have. Also, this is interesting because Scott Derrickson left because he couldn't make the movie he wanted, right? Is that basically what it was? I feel like Flanagan's the kind of person to be like, let me make what I wanna fucking make or I'm leaving. He does come across that way. Derrickson's version would feature Doctor Strange and Scarlet Witch joining forces to protect America Chavez from nightmare and end with Wanda going evil. Raimi later decided to focus on Wanda as the villain. I have heard that before. Well, we've got that. We've also got Waldron claiming that he wanted Wanda as the villain. Thanks, guys. Yeah, good job. He was already in trouble after WandaVision but having to double down at ghetto being a villain after apparently overcoming a villain arc. You have Derrickson basically say like we need a whole movie to get it to that point. They were like, nah, it's fine. No, it don't. Fine. Early drafts feature Iron Monger and Baldr the Brave as members of the Illuminati. They were later replaced by Mist Fantastic and Black Bolt. The Wasp, Kill Monger, Neymour and Ghost Rider were also considered. I've definitely heard about the Baldr, the Brave one. Definitely heard about that. Early drafts feature more variants of Strange including Street Magician, Melvin Strange. Melvin Strange. It'll be funny, goofy. Why is it that Melvin? Melvin just seems like a goofy name. It opens a lot of great name. It's a goober name, isn't it? He's the brother of the Joker. Do you guys know about that? Melvin, brother of the Joker. I remember a gag in that Scooby Doo movie where there was a guy called Melvin Doo. I remember that. Melvin, brother of the Joker is possibly one of the cringiest jokes in the history of humanity. I mean, so you're not going to be surprised where I start this story, but you know, nostalgia critic. I've heard of him, yeah, once or twice. Yes. He dressed up as Joker, but it was like really shit. And then he made a video that he thought was very funny where he sort of sang a tune in a theoretical universe, I think, where a guy called Melvin, who was the Joker's retarded brother, made a little TV show. And it's just him going, Melvin, Melvin, brother of the Joker. It's like, oh, you can find it on YouTube with ease. The whole internet was just like, stop it. No, it's really funny. Melvin, whatever the name, Melvin comes up. I think of brother of the Joker immediately. It's like, yeah, it's a joke. So bad nostalgia critic doesn't talk about it. He's he's he's a he's a creative. Okay, he's an artist and it doesn't always work out. I guess I should say it doesn't ever work out. But that's fine. It was it was a fun character. How many what do you think is ratio is like a funny jokes to videos? I don't know. You think it's a positive number? Are we looking at one to turn it? I mean, God, I remember that. The funniest thing in the when we were watching that Lord of the Rings, what was Dracula getting fucking mad every time we did this? That was funny shit. OK, so early cuts of M.O.M. were poorly received, leading to extensive reshoots that reworked Stranger's character, which is originally about his obsession with control and his relationship with Chavez, which is originally much more adversarial. I mean, I don't know what to make of any of this. I don't know which would have been better or worse, but the movie we got was so awful. It was so awful that I would take a chance on whatever this is. Yeah, I mean, yeah, whatever you want to do. I'm not taking a chance on these early cuts. Yeah, do it. Fuck it. Why not? Early cuts feature Supreme Stranger's sacrifice being genuine. Excuse me. It is genuine, isn't it? It is genuine. And Sinister Stranger's corruption being due to power reshoots added the concept of incursions of the Illuminati executing Supreme Stranger and Sinister Stranger's obsession with Christine. Wow. So what a good. What a good idea to have. He wasn't always an incel. Well, it wasn't always an incel. And is the is the implication that Supreme Stranger would have died doing something, but in the new version he was killed by his friends. Yes. For no stupid reason, because they all don't understand how incursions work. And the fact that it said reshoots added the concept of incursions. It's like, well, that was a waste of time and money. You've destroyed everything. Yeah, to reshot that. Early cuts begin with Earth 616 Baron Mordo confronting Wanda, who decapitates him and later presents the head to strange. That one is definitely true. Yeah, and that not to say that I don't want a terrible idea. Yeah, the whole the whole like, don't make it too dark. So this isn't even about dogs fucking wild. It's just why would you get rid of Mordo? Why would you set him up as a villain and then kill him off like that? Yeah. Early cuts end with strange. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, in terms of having Wanda present a decapitated head to Doctor Strange and then try to like spin it in some way later on in the film that she could become a hero, like, OK. She's very sympathetic. Yeah, I don't know. Early cuts end with strange trapped in the ruined Earth and sinister strange assuming his place on Earth 616. I mean, whatever at this point. That could be what's happening. I was about to say that could be interesting. But I mean, I think that could be what we saw anyway for all we fucking know. Early cuts feature a post-credits scene where Deadpool teleports into the Illuminati's headquarters and happens upon Wanda's massacre. Oh, geez, that probably would have been really tone deaf. Yeah, people would. I think people would have hated that, because it's like, why are you why are you making fun of all of them being dead again? Jeff Bridges and Daniel Craig were in talks to play Iron Monger and Boulder, but dropped out due to COVID. Definitely heard about the Daniel Craig Boulder thing. Ian Griffiths and Nicholas Cage were approached to return as Mr. Fantastic and Ghost Rider. OK. Yeah, it was just the cringy. Like, it would have been bad. It would have been nice to see him, but it would have been bad anyway, because they all get fucking killed. Miss Marble. Early drafts feature Captain Marvel visiting Miss Marble after she defeats and clan and clandestines. Clandestines, yeah. And offering to train her. OK. There's not much on that one. Civil War? Wait, this is not the right. Oh, right. Last section, sorry. One sec. All right, yeah, Thor, Love and Thunder. Oh, boy. Early cuts feature numerous characters, settings, and storylines that were ultimately deleted. It's so funny. You could put that as a fact for all of them, and I'd believe you. Yeah, they bat around all kinds of crazy fucking ideas. That's what I'm saying. Someone would say, yeah, but that's how movies are made. And it's like, yeah, but like every time you have like all of these crazy fucking insane wacky ideas that end up getting cut. Yeah, like, I don't feel like Ridley Scott toyed around with the idea of Maximus being like and then like a gay transvestite or something, you know? But it feels like there's crazy ideas that they just are like, yeah, you know, maybe we just do something batshit and sane and they actually ponder it. Maybe you need that guy so that you have something to shoot down so you can feel like, OK, I'm not doing that idea. Maybe that's his job to make all the bad suggestions. Early drafts feature Thor meeting Jesus and Satan in Omnipotent City, and Russell Crowe would have originally played Satan. I mean, I heard about it. Sure, do it. Go for it. But I mean, the idea of actually having Jesus. Yeah, if I were on the team, I'd be like, let's not. We're not fucking South Park. All the people are really, really, really, really, really good idea. Early drafts feature Thor and Gore conversing with Eternity and Morgan Freeman was going to be the voice. What? That just sounds funny. Fuck it, keep it in. Early drafts feature a romance between Valkyrie and Lady Sif, even though Valkyrie was originally going to be supposed to be hooking up with Thor in Ragnarok. And you can see the remnants of that in the film. Why? I don't understand why they brought Sif back only to have a be there, get her arm cut off and then just shop at the end. What the hell? Well, don't forget they brought it back to kick Loki in the nuts. Was that true? That's true. It's kind of funny. It's like, oh, yeah, the awaited return of Sif. And then that's just nothing. Early drafts feature the Guardians of the Galaxy arriving to help Thor in the final battle. Early cuts feature Thor uniting Mjolnir, Stormbreaker and Zeus's lightning bolt into a super weapon to destroy the Necrosword, attempting to super glue Korg back together after Zeus shatters him and dancing to Abba's Waterloo. This is, I believe all of this. This is not hard to believe. I couldn't escape if I wanted to. Early cuts feature Gore using the purity of the captive Asgardian children to open the portal to eternity. They're purity, okay. Peeling the religious tattoos off his body with the Necrosword and dancing to Kate Bush's running up that hill. That thing is running up that hill. That's gotta be a meme. Christ. That's gotta be a meme. People in chat will be remiss not to mention Stranger Things, of course. They use that song and it's hyper popular. It might be like the most popular thing that happened in the show now outside of the metal part as well. Oh my God. That's good. It's always good to get some Kate Bush appreciation. Yeah. But maybe not in Thor Leven Thunder, I don't know. Sometimes. Early cuts feature Zeus realizing his mistakes, visiting Thor on Earth, encouraging him to stand against Gore and willingly give him the thunderbolt. I know that's true. I've seen, these are deleted scenes that have him talking to him and it's fucking bizarre considering the after-credits scene. Yeah. I guess they went in a different direction. Early cuts feature a post-credits scene with Thor's goats, Tooth Grinder and Tooth Nasher reveal themselves to be evil and have attempted to kill him numerous times. They were evil. They were villains. That just sounds like a taika joke. That's really bad. Yeah. Turns out they were trying to kill him, lol. They're like, okay. She-Hulk. The series would originally begin with Jennifer Walt is already active as She-Hulk and only reveal her origin in episode eight but there's confused general audiences so her origin was reworked into episode one. You know, that's true. I don't see how it's even confusing at all, but- Like I was- We were talking about it, I don't- It's not something I remotely consider a problem compared to all the stuff that's fucked in that show. The trial of abomination would originally be the series overarching storyline but the writers felt it was not engaging enough and condensed it into episode three. Not that one. You can't have this- You can't have the courtroom in this show about lawyers. Yeah, don't worry. Plenty of great episodes to fill in. It was a wonderful show. Edward Norton would- In theory, a procedural-ish lawyer courtroom show that's just a comedy, it's fine on paper as long as it's actually funny. Yeah. Edward Norton would originally appear during Jennifer's encounter with Kevin and complain about being recast but this was scrapped before Nolan was even approached. Norton, sorry. And I don't believe for a second you would have fucking agreed to that. Why would he agree to this? Like, agree to come into this and make funny yourselves. Like, nah, like, I'm all right. Early drafts feature the leader as the leader of the intelligentsia waiting to use She-Hulk's blood to cure his dis-deteriorating body. Is he showing up in- Oh, it made him interesting sympathetic. I think isn't he meant to be showing up in the new Captain America? Yeah. I guess they changed their mind. Oh, for Rags, the leader is a character from the comics and he's kind of foreshadowed or at least shown- Oh, I thought you were talking about like the bro character who was, who injected himself with- No, you would have replaced him. He's sort of set up in Incredible Hulk, right? Is the guy who has- Yeah. Yeah, that's right. So we'll be seeing him again. Black Panther, too. Sure, he was always the principal choice to become Black Panther, but Nakia, Okoye, and Umbaku were also considered. Man, if they'd made Okoye the new Black Panther, what the fuck is this? His bodyguard is the new Black Panther, okay. Ely Drafts did not feature the death of Queen Ramonda and Riri Williams becoming Ironheart. Because the Queen's death was weird and confusing. It was weird. And just drowned inside of like a tower. After saving someone from drowning. That's weird. It's weird. That movie was weird. And it was long and boring and it sucked balls. And as for Riri Williams becoming Ironheart, it's like, yeah, to me, they were just rushing it. They were like, get her into the suit, get her going. We can then make- Because isn't her show finished? Like, it's ready to go. It's finished, but it's not coming out any time soon, I don't think. Makes you think. Ely Drafts feature Namor addressing the ecological impact of the celestial Tiamat emerging from the ocean. No, we don't reference that. We don't reference that. No, no. Yeah, I'm sorry. Who's he going to be complaining to? It's not like it's Earth's fault. I mean, it's just it's the celestial's fault and that has nothing to do with Earth. He's specifically mad at like the fucking president. He's like, you got to do something about that. It's like, really drastically addressing the ecological impact. What? You mean him going to blow up Earth? That was what was going to happen if he didn't get stopped. Yeah. Do you remember Aquaman with his response was putting trash onto like the beaches of countries? Yeah, that's right. Ocean Master made giant tidal waves that went all across and almost certainly killed many, many, many. Oh, yeah. Remember when Aquaman killed all of the crab people who were on his side? He killed John Rice Davies crab. He killed all the crabs that were on his side. There were no one gave a fuck. No one gave a shit. I wonder how I wonder how much collateral of damage he's going to be causing in this new one. Also, Reese, not Rise. You'll get there one day. Early drafts feature Dr. Rice Davies, John Rice Davies, Reese, John Rice, John Reese Davies, John Reese Davies. Early drafts feature Dr. Doom manipulating the conflict between Wakanda and telecom to his benefit. I remember hearing tons of rumors about Dr. Doom, but was that ever like? Yeah, I remember being told by somebody that the plan was an after credit scene to reveal Dr. Doom and Black Panther, too. So I'm guessing that's what I heard. But you fucking imagine shows their itching. They're just itching to introduce Dr. Doom. Yeah, because I he's like one of the last big sort of characters that they got left other than, I guess, X-Men characters. Oh, really? Drafts feature a romantic connection between Shuri and Namor. Why would you want to do that? He kills so many people in Wakanda. A horrible, disgusting person. He killed him, Bob. Oh, wait, is that her mom or is that her auntie? I can't remember. No, that's that's his. No, that's that's her mom. Yeah, remember, she's to Charles Brown. Well, not to not to diminish caring about the death of an aunt, anyway. Quantamania, an alternative pitch features Ant-Man and the Young Avengers fighting Modoc and Aime. Young Avengers probably would have been shit anyway. The Young Avengers is like all of the like teenagers, kids of events. And you know that they're coming. They're the end of the mob. Oh, yeah, they they probably want to set. Isn't that basically all but confirmed, right? Kate Bishop meeting like Miss Marvel to set up as far as I'm aware. It's in stone. It's not even like which I imagine that they're not even going to. I get the impression that they're so protective of like Avengers as a name that they're not even going to call it Young Avengers, like that that would be like brand dilution. You know what I mean? Like they'd call it something else. Young Crusaders or something. I don't know, but not not Young Avengers. They were talks about killing either Hank Pym or Janet Van Dyne. I could buy that instantly. They should have killed Hank Pym. It makes more sense. Yeah, it should have been Hank. Early drafts feature flashbacks of Hank and Janet doing sexy science in the 1980s, modeled after Michael Douglas's erotic thrillers of the time. What? That's a great point for you. Fuck it. Why not? Let's do it. Sexy science. Why not? It's literally just like this movie is so shit, just to do it. Fuck it. Go for it. Early drafts feature Gentora resenting Janet for abandoning the rebels and Janet trying to earn back their trust. This is something I forgot to even mention in the video. They they're all like happily ever after at the end. It's like, oh, all these people hate Janet. I completely forgot about that. They should all have a bone to pick with her. They all she abandoned them all. I was like, whatever. But I don't care. I don't care about that. I don't care about Gentora. She's my favorite. What do you mean? Who's that? She was the like the Barbarian lady leader of the rebels. Yes, the edgy edgy, the edgy. Gotcha. Early cuts feature Cassie bonding with Gentora and the rebels and becoming determined to help them. And wow, we need a scene where she becomes more determined to do the right thing. Yes, they really know how to write these characters. This one we know is true. Early cuts feature Kryla surviving the bar brawl and rejoining the rebels against Kang. There's plenty of footage of him was not used. Early cuts feature Kang recognizing Hank as Ant-Man once that he once fought in another universe. OK, I just like I don't know why they would have would not cut that out. There's a big, big difference. The original ending features Scott and Hope trapped in the quantum realm and Cassie, Janet and Hank searching for them. Which you can tell from watching it that that was what was going to be the ending because the the reshoots are not very smooth. No, they are not. Jennifer Coolidge was considered for Linda. The woman Hank went on a date with while Janet was in the quantum realm. OK, it's just stupid factoid. Like why would they even show Linda? Well, how they clarify who Linda was. But for the rest of these names, like, you know who that is. You know, everyone knows Balakint. We don't even have to say. Guardians of the Galaxy three prior to his firing, Gunn would oversee all projects in the cosmic corner of the Marvel Cinematic Universe with volume three setting up numerous new characters and storylines. Gunn disliked Thor joining the team in Avengers Endgame and did not plan to include him even when the movie was to release before Thor, Love and Thunder. Hmm. Well, I mean, we know that he couldn't because he didn't like that. What's the same guy is a helmet back for some reason, either. Yeah, he's he was bitter about a lot of the things that happened when they were out of his control, I guess. It's unfortunate, even though, as we said at the time, there's plenty you can work with. You don't have to work against it. I got to say, by the way, on the subject of the cosmic side, I find it incredibly lame. Like the cosmic side of Marvel is so lame to me, like at least in terms of the movies, everywhere is just like Earth. That's humans everywhere. There's not really many crazy, wacky looking aliens. And I don't really expect anything to improve. I don't know. You could you don't even get like enough Star Trek aliens, which are like people. No, no. Like interesting faces or green. It's just people, but they're. Blue or green, not like, you know, yeah, they don't even have like makeup on, you know, to be like clearly not human. Yeah, but not like what you said in Star Trek, where it's a little bit more, a little bit more different. I don't know. I just find it super lame. I wish I was like the one thing that I always want is more aliens. Please, just more aliens is one of the things I want from Star Wars all the time. It's just more aliens and robots, less people, more aliens and robots. Guns. Oh, yeah. The extended ending features the Guardians of the Galaxy rescuing the high evolutionary imprisoning him in nowhere. Although this was cut for pacing. Gun has confirmed its cannon. Well, that doesn't OK. If it's not in anything, then it doesn't I don't even say what the fuck you want. I just don't care if it's in a movie. It says if it's in a movie, I don't care anyway. How did it not like how can you say it's kind of there's no recognition of his body being moved. There's no I don't even think if you were to pause when we have the big sections of seeing all of the crowd is like, would you see him in there? I don't think so. I think he would. So I know he's he got blown up. So weird. Secret invasion, production was troubled with frequent conflicts between writers and producers and several script rights or rewrites that caused the majority of the series to be entirely reshot. No shock at all. Obviously true. Amelia Clark's character was originally Varanke or Varanke, and she would use she would usurp Gravick and depart for space with her loyalists vowing revenge if fury pursued her or them, which I believe because that's in secret invasion in the comics. That's like the coin of the Skrulls, which a secret invasion not very much like the comic at all. So yeah, I totally could believe that this I mean, I'll take that over her becoming the most powerful Avenger ever for some reason. Absolutely. Yeah. And finally, Carmen, a Jogo was originally cast as Priscilla Fury, but dropped out due to scheduling conflicts caused by the mass reshoots and was replaced by Charlene Woodard. I just find that fascinating that all of it is, you know, all of the factoids about basically all of these projects is that they all just get dramatically reshot, which we know. But that's not normal. Like what? And it's incredibly expensive. That's that's money. If you if you shot it right the first time, that's money that you save. Reshoots is one thing. Reshooting a lot of it is one thing. It was like reshooting the fucking whole project to the point we practically have a new TV show. Well, I'm doing it all the time. Like basically every project has significant reshoots. The only one that didn't happen, he was Guardians 3, right? Guardians 3 was the only one and like the last several years that didn't have any reshoots. Absolutely nuts. All right, I need to go and pee, but I'll be back because we have a few more things. Oh, yeah, you bet. Yeah, I guess I'm OK. So I guess that's all like the context for the lead up to where everything is at, which is fascinating, isn't it? I got to imagine at this point, especially now that especially now that we're at the point where you've got like these major sort of outlets that typically didn't really say anything, particularly negative about Marvel at all now starting to. Do that. If that means that we're going to start getting more of these types of stories emerging, you know what I mean? Like what? Yeah, yeah, like it's out now. Everyone's talking about it. It's an open thing. It's not just YouTubers, you know, it's it's actually like these magazines and everything that are typically pretty positive that they're willing. It's like there's blood in the water, you know, there's like blood. Kind of. Yeah. This is the story that we can all jump on. This is what people are reading about. Mm hmm. Which I don't know. I really, I really, really, really, really don't know that they can even reverse these problems because I don't know. I mean, it's like I don't know what you do. I mean, I know what you do. You have to say, well, you're not going to say like a lot of this stuff, but you just like how much is it to say, you know what, we just got to cancel a shit ton of projects that are upcoming and everything. And then we have to just like eat that up and say, all right, we need this serious refocus on what made us great in the first place. And we got to get back to making good stories. And we're going to have to put writing as King. We have all that we just like it's not working. Like if you don't do it today, you will have to do it next year or next year. And by then you'll be even further in the red. Yeah, but I think I think Marvel benefits from the fact that when they announce something that comes out, it actually does come out compared to like DC, where they've announced several projects that didn't pan out. It's almost like there's a lack of confidence from everybody in general. Like when it comes to DC projects of, oh, yeah, we're working on this. We're like, OK, yeah, we'll see about that. Whereas when Marvel, Marvel announced something, there's like a guarantee that it's going to come out. But I mean, I wouldn't be surprised at this point if stuff starts getting canceled. Stuff is certainly getting canceled, but wasn't announced, which I guess technically, yeah, but I mean, like whenever I hear about upcoming, whatever, I'm just like, yeah, sure. When it's in theaters, I'll believe you, but I just don't. I just don't think anything's out until it's actually out now. It'll be put on indefinite hiatus or it'll be pushed back next year. Swap directors, be new cast, new story, whatever. And at that point, it's not even the same project except the name, which I think they're just going to have to someone at Marvel is going to or Disney is going to have to say, we need to bite the fucking bullet and we need to get back to we. There needs to be a shake up and how and what their selection process is for hiring the people who make these projects. We can't be going with this. He Jengalee, who you know, who and you know this person and who knows that person or you're like, no, we got to get rid of this. Getting people whose first screenplay is like a 200 million dollar Marvel movie like that first actual feature like screen like it was like fucking the first screenplay that was written by Jeff Loveness was Quantamania, that's crazy to me. The first screenplay you write for film is a 200 million dollar production. I think one of the first things that you might want to do is say that we need like the budgets for these movies has been ballooning out of control to the point where like there's no way we should be saying, oh, this only made four hundred eighty million. What a failure. We're going to have to start saying we need to change up our process of, you know, financial allocation. We need to be making a lot of fifty and a hundred million dollar like we need when we make a movie and it's a hundred fifty million dollars. That needs to be like the big thing that we make. Yeah. Why does everything have to cost the same amount, which is an insane amount of money? We've got to. Yeah, we need to we need to take a look at why these things cost so much. We need to try a lot of different things and we need to make them cheaper. And surely enough of them will stick or hit or something. All right, so look at the next step of our journey. There's still plenty to go. We might be in for a long one like I said. OK, you remember you familiar vaguely with an account. I think it's Matt Ramos on Twitter. He's like you'll often tweet like a shill guy, right? He'll tweet in such a way that people don't believe he's like a real human being. They feel like he's like a just the perfect customer for Marvel. And well, everything, everything mainstream, I think, even beyond Marvel. In any case, I was piqued in my interest because I was told he made a video recently called the MCU is in shambles. Whoa. And yeah, I bet if we go through all of his reviews, it'll be it'll be just like, wow, boilers. Yeah. Oh, it's actually funnier than that. It'll be funny that we did this with Cosmonaut, though. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So same thing he was. What we're going to do first is check out his video and see what his reasoning is. See what you see from the perspective of someone on the other side of the spectrum, who's adored this franchise and its timeline in every way, shape and form. But today slash yesterday slash whenever this was uploaded, decided enough is enough. It's in shambles now. So we're going to check out what he has to say. All right, you're in the title of the video. I never thought I never thought this day would come, but it's safe to say that at this current point in time. Wait, did he just say come randomly? What is in shambles? It might just be glitchy. It might have glitched it. Because for me, he said, all right, you all have seen the title of this video. Come. I was like, what are we talking about? The internet flupage. What? Wow, how do you balance? Damn, yeah, how do you balance in place? Also, wow, that looks great. The article titled Crisis at Marvel. That basically details a lot of it. See, there you go. We read it. So now we have the context. Isn't that great? We did a research. We did the disasters that are going on behind the scenes at Marvel Studios right now. And before we get out of the way and dive into this article, I want to say this because you all know me, bro. I started this channel talking about Marvel. I love Marvel. I love the MCU. Even now at this current with the current state of the MCU, I'm still going to rock for this franchise because I've grown up. Oh, so you're worthless. It's given me memories that I'll cherish with me. Oh, well, you've got an abuse of my calling. It's completely changed and transformed my life for the better. Geez, really? It's just so dramatic. I don't believe you. But I guess the thing is, if this is the crux of his career, like if his career kind of existed. Well, I was going to go more with the genuine thing of like my current everything, like me as a person, part of my identity was built by what I understood and learned from these stories or something. It's like, OK, I don't know. Like certainly I'm trying to think of like the nice work of others is just like just what are you I would love to know what kind of like life lessons you're getting from phase four and five. Like they, you know, I just noticed it in the background there. He's got he's got the poster for the uncharted movie. Really? That's what that is. Well, well, I at first I was like, OK, so that's is that uncharted three because uncharted three has a big old set. It looks like it's the convoy hanging off of the off of the back of the plane there. That looks like I'm sure it does. Yeah, it does. You could see the plane and yeah, yeah, with all the cargo, which that's blurry, Tom Holland. Am I the only person who saw uncharted? Yes, I think I might be the only person who saw uncharted. Yeah. So everything I say in this video is straight up out of love because I love Marvel. I love the MCU. I always have an army. I always find this caveat so lame. It's like, can we just like, yeah, can you just tell me imagine you'll always love it? No matter what, having this chat with someone, why did you fall in love? It's like, oh, I got to tell you, like, Marvel's in shambles. But before I do, I just want to let you know, I fucking adore it no matter what. You're like, OK, OK. Cool. Love should be conditional. There should be a reason why you love something and that thing, that quality, that attribute needs to be able to be lost. And your love should go with it. If you love something no matter what, then it can't. It can't do anything to lose it. So it could be as terrible as terrible can be. And you'll still love it, which makes your love like worthless. By the way, this is 57 seconds in. I know it wouldn't have felt like that because nothing's happened yet. But it's still like, wow. And I think out of love, it's important for us to sometimes just take a stand and say, yo, we love this universe so much. There has to be change in order for it to return back to what it once was. And why? You'll love it. You love it. You currently love it. So why change? I think we are going to have to move past that rags. Otherwise, this will be something that has to be loaded on every statement. This may order for it to order for it to uphold the standard that us fans are used to getting with every single one of their projects. By the way, with with like someone like this, these are the kind of people or I'd be curious, like, what's their tier list of like greatest to worst MCU movies? Oh, you'll get a brief idea of how he even talks about the best of what we've had recently, and you'll get to know how he drove the line, let's say. Now, it's important to note that not everything Marvel has put out these past couple of years has been bad. I mean, we've got three. No way home. Shang-Chi Wakanda forever. Juan Division. I just gradually got worse and worse. I would just love to ask him. Just tell me the plot of Shang-Chi, not detailed, but like, you know, just one minute from the beginning and tell me your favorite character in Wakanda forever. Yeah. And then tell me what happened. And I was like, come on, by the time you hit the second half of that show, no one knows what's going on anymore. No. Loki, Marvel has still had their hits over these past. Also, yeah, Loki was mentioned there. Again, just to reiterate, it's it's been remarkable. It's been it's been actually remarkable how consistently awful these projects have been for the last year. Kind of not easy to have that happen. No, it was actually surreal for us to constantly have that bar keep getting lowered, like that was surreal of finding new ways to break your canon and to break characters. It was incredible. When we watched the last Loki episode and we had that brief little like, oh, some of us, is this worse than a secret invasion or not? We're like, I don't know, I guess, I guess, or a lot or sort of. But yeah, like we constantly when the whole universe turns into spaghetti. Yeah, no, this is a little bit and then and then Loki could rewrite Yeah, the universe at will. Oh, yeah. Of course. Loki, everybody, stay tuned. Yeah, stay tuned for that episode's coming your way soon. But overall, as a collective universe, the quality has been inconsistent. And that's something we're not really used to seeing when it comes to them to you when it came to. No, it's always been inconsistent. It's always been inconsistent, but it's also, by his own logic, been inconsistent since what phase four is like, that's not exactly yesterday. It's been going for a while now. That's that's the last two and a half years. Yeah. Roller coaster. Sorry, more than that. 20, 21, 20, so technically three years. We could count it from end game, you know, the actual he wouldn't. Well, he probably thinks end game is the absolute high point. He does think it's pretty good. I'm sure he does. Yeah. To the infinity saga, there was so much connection and there was so much of a unified vision that every single project led right into the next. So we actually know factually that it wasn't. We had the conflict between Joss Whedon and the Rousseau's, even for the the stories being written, like the lack of conversation. Not a unified vision. The fact that it actually came together in any way that is remotely cohesive is kind of a miracle. Yeah. And I still believe it's just the fact that there was less to contradict. That's mainly why. Yes. Yep, pretty much. And it was all just a never ending hype train rest with phase four and five never ending hype train. Well, you were really high when playing the role at the end of Thor the Dark World. You were like, man, I'm so fucking excited for what's coming next. When you were watching Ad-Man for this time, that was the same hype as watching like. I had Ant-Man and the Wasp specifically. Banger. Yeah, that was a banger. You know, it's so consistently quality. It's felt extremely disconnected. We've we've been introduced to so many different heroes that. Yeah, see, again, the thing that's that's not true either. This is the stuff that annoys me. It's because someone at Marvel is listening to this and thinking that these are coherent and accurate criticisms of the. Yeah, too many heroes. That's the problem. It's like, nope. Yeah. No, just that they're all shit. Yeah, need them. But we don't even know if we're ever going to see them again. Nor when not knowing if you're going to see a character again isn't even really a problem in isolation. I mean, if I never see them again. This reminds me of Grace Randolph, where it's like the problem with Andorra is there's not enough lightsabers. It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How are we to know if Darth Vader's even going to show up? I don't know him again. So there has definitely been some stumbles along the way with when it comes to the face for and face five stumbles. Xavier once said just because someone stumbles and loses their way. Oh, my God, no. Especially thinking of the context of that. Yeah, like you just get stuck in your bra. Oh, my God. Remember when they fucking they ruined and humiliated Patrick Stewart? And remember that he was saying it in reference to a man that they killed hero. Yeah. And then you say get to a man who done nothing wrong. Don't worry, you stumbled there. Strange, strange, like, no, I haven't I've done nothing. I arrived, you captured me. I guess the grocery was really proud of that. I was like, ah, see, I'm going to tie it all back together with a quote from a Marvel story, no less. Nailed it. Yeah. And it's important that us as fans voice our criticisms, voice the way we feel about the current MCU in order for more. Have you been doing that consistently for the last few years? Because if not, then you've contributed to this. Surely you would have to listen, right? You wouldn't want to you wouldn't want to admit it. But like so you've implied a positive thing is to point out, you know, a critical nature where we're warranted and to be constructed. It's like, so there's a bad reverse, right? To not do that when needed. Do you think maybe you've done that? And I'm sure we'd be like, no, I've been honest every single time. But what I think is good quality and bad quality. OK, all right. No, it all just catches up at once. It all just happened. It all just happened. It reaches the point where it's like, oh, you know, Marvel's in trouble now that the variety article is out and now that the book is out and now that the film's on doing so well. Because remember, nothing has changed between today and yesterday. No, just an article came out. That's it. That's the only. You know, you know, right? Nothing is so funny. You say that we keep that in mind. Put that in your pocket. Pull that quote out. I will. I'll put that when we get to the end of this video. Specifically, oh, my God. My little, my little bell power. Well, I'm foreshadowing a big old payoff. Chat, you're going to love it. OK. I'm in the right direction because if we if we sat here and just praised everything and everything is perfect all the time, then guess what? Marvel is just going to continue to keep doing. He's known as he's known as that guy, by the way, like by people typically on the Internet. He's known as the guy who would praise everything that Marvel ever does. But they've been doing continue to put Frank. Let me ask you, Frank, in particular, but let me ask you this question. If you were in charge of his like background arrangement, right, would you have put his two supermen both on the tops of opposite cabinets? Probably, I don't think that's the way I think he's separated because because he's got always nice and they're in the middle. Yeah, but it's not because he's got Optimus Prime. It looks like he does. And Iron Man, yeah, on the left. And he's got his his play button, too. That does feel a little bit of a does feel that in front of the play button. I like a torch or something sitting there. I don't know. I don't know. I don't yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know about the the background. I'm not that I don't need. This is where you need like the glowing lights or something because you have a very flat like white, not very well lit room. This is where you need those like little LED strips to kind of give it some some color that isn't purple because that's what everyone does. But you know something, you know, maybe you could do blue because that's sort of the way his channel, you know, his some blues going. The thing is, is if he's wearing a blue shirt, I probably wouldn't want a blue background. I probably just do the good old blue and orange. Maybe yeah, orange colors, complementary colors. They are your friend. But I could do a blue red like Superman. Oh, yeah, yeah. I feel extremely rushed that are just I'm going to say. Did he say the shows because that's the because again, that's again, another accepted thing that you can say compared to shooting on the move as well that are just let me see. You got to go back a little bit. Guess what? Marble is just going to continue to keep doing what they've been doing. Continue to put out six episodes of Disney Plus shows that feel extreme. Yes. Yeah, I don't know. I'm too cynical. I'm too cynical. Was just funny you say that he's because that's the accepted narrative is that the shows are flawed, not the films. Well, let's see, I guess. I'm going to save my thoughts for a later day. So diving into the things, this variety article. No, I don't say my thoughts until I sort of I check the temperature of the room and I see what's, you know, happening. That that's what's what he means. He doesn't want to be nice to Marvel. OK, this is big for him. It wants to be nice to the multi dollar corporation. This is tough. It's saying the MC was in shambles from him is a big deal. OK. OK, well, brings up. It starts off by talking about how this September, Kevin Feige and all of the Marvel executives had their annual Marvel retreat where he doesn't have a great smile, Kevin Feige. It's not a it's you know, it's OK. Where's the hat? He's got a look there. You know, he's got a look with his hat and it certainly does. It's more mundane and less. He looks comfortable, deep and uncomfortable. And the cowboy hat. I'd be comfortable for him at this point. I would not. At this point, yeah, compared to a few years ago, they basically my magic powers can save Marvel. That's your Kevin Feige voice. Yeah, not even my power. I assume he's like a dark, eldritch demon who's inhabiting this body. Go someplace else and they just sit there and they analyze the MCU, what's working, what's not working. And then they course correct. So this is something that's happened for years and years and years. And it's how the MCU has in great detail. It's it's how it's gotten to where it is. Why is he describing this like it's an uncommon thing for creatives to go on retreats where they figure out broader plans? But like, he talks about it like it's a Marvel thing. This is just like a common thing. I just also feel bad that he's like completely convinced like it's just a true fact that phases one, two and three were planned out and unified, even though, even though that's obviously not true. Joss Whedon putting in the Thanos clip at the end of 2012's Avengers was like a not a meme. But he was basically just like, yeah, I'll throw that in. Whatever. Yeah. Kind of a meme. I mean, like, it does understand that he does realize that there's been like changes in because it was paramount for the first few movies. And then it was Disney. And then there was obviously that universal like like that there was friction. That was like it wasn't a clear, clear cut, sure thing. I mean, surely he knows Iron Man 2 was like the product of a lot of studio tampering and all and whatnot. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if he knows it. I mean, it's like, again, he might not know. You have Scott Derrickson like leaving Doctor Strange 2. Edgar Wright didn't even like fulfill everything with that. And Joss Whedon left with the chance to do possibly going to be the biggest movies ever because he wasn't happy with the way that things work there. It's like, come on. It's because Ken Feige and the team are always meeting. They're always looking on what to improve. So but this year was a little different because this year they had a ton of fires, disasters. They had to bring up an address. So it wasn't the same marvel that had the retreat in 2019. Once Endgame came out and everything was at its peak and everything already happened. Now this year. This year's retreat was a little bit different starting off with one of the big problems that Marvel addressed or is currently addressing is the Jonathan Majors Kang the Conquer situation. Marvel was very quick to say this entire multiverse saga is being built on the shoulders of Jonathan Majors. And we've all heard of the very public legal battles that Jonathan Majors is currently going through. So the only time we'll tell on that on how that works out. But it's said that Marvel was already questioning and discussing on moving forward from Kang after the release of Ant-Man and the Wasp Quantumania because that film just did not perform at the box. Still don't buy that, by the way. No way. No. But again, it's like I said, like as pointed out in chat, the timeline just doesn't even follow. All of the Jonathan Majors stuff happens in March. The film came out in February. So in a month, it just so happened that maybe like a week before all of the stuff was happening with him, that they were not going to move forward. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I don't buy a comment. He's extemporizing like he has first hand knowledge of the topic. He really shouldn't. Yeah, he's talking about the article's contents, as though it is kind of like stuff that he's got access to as information. But it's like, right, when he's just like us, right? He's just reading the article and then forming an opinion based on it. Box office. Now, I'm going to sit here and tell you again, all of all of the legal drama aside, if we're just looking at what Jonathan Majors brought to the table for Emin and the Wasp Quantamanias, Kang the Conqueror, he was without a doubt the best part of that movie. The failure. I don't even know what the best. Probably no, I don't know. Paul Rudd, man. Yeah, I feel like it's got to be Paul Rudd. Then what? I don't know. I don't know. He's the only one that I like. Emin and the Wasp Quantamanias. Modoc, yeah. Maybe Modoc. Yeah, Modoc. That's true. Modoc should not fall on the shoulders of Jonathan Majors. But after that film under the performant of the Box Office, I guess basically Marvel took that feedback and they said, yo, should we really be putting the shoulders of this entire saga on Kang? Should we be putting shoulders on that? Should be. I mean, I think so. I wonder what could have been written in that article that he wouldn't have believed, like if the article just said the Marvel have decided that based on his ability to grow facial hair, we will not be casting Jonathan Majors as Kang in future. Like if they just said that, I wonder if you would be like, my God, I can't believe this for a long time. And now it's finally confirmed. Well, yeah, because he is basically taking everything that's being said in the article at face value. Yeah, give him his shoulders back. If this movie underperformed at the Box Office, you know, he needs to say that people are going to show for the next one where Kang is still going to be the main villain. So Marvel has been discussing that for quite some time now. Another thing that's been. Oh, I have that. Have they? Yeah, brought up is moving forward from Kang into Dr. Doom and having Dr. Which excites you, doesn't it? I'm sure it does. Amazing. Sure, it is kind of sad to know there's still plenty to plunder from the comics for. Oh, yeah. I mean, we haven't had a lot of them as well yet. Just any of the X-Men. The same thing happens every fucking time. I feel like Thraud is one of the best recent ones in terms of like, you wanted him. There he is. He sucks. Now we move on. By the time you get to the end of the list, you can go back to the beginning of the list. That's right. Yeah, that's right. We're going to do Throne again, but this time he'll be good. But this time for real. So the multiverse saga, they've had those discussions. Nothing is really final. But the fact that they are having these discussions means. This is what that shadow is so on point. He taught he's not using the article's information and then like address it. He's more so absorbed. It and now treating it as though it's stuff he knows. This is like. Yeah. No, I know. He's saying like he wrote the kind of pissing me off a little bit. It's making me a little bit angry. Well, compare his coverage of the article with us talking about it, where we get into like legitimate discussions about what they might need to do and alternatives and all that sort of thing. Well, I mean, bear in mind, I like none of us here like Marvel, like the MCU anymore. And even we were like, well, you know, maybe that's not true. This was contested. Reading everything we went through in the past four hours or many hours was all treated with a huge grains of salt. Like there was even stuff that we read that we were like, probably not true. The chat was like, no, that's true. That's confirmed. It's like, oh, OK. Here it's just like, yeah, he's accepted it all as factual. Yeah. That they don't really know where they're going right now. I mean, we're currently in the middle of Loki season two, and that is for sure going to continue to set up Kang and set up the things that are in store for him. So I don't. Such as what? Such as what, buddy? Well, that's the problem. It could be absolutely anything, including cutting him off entirely. It could be the end of season two of Loki deletes Kang from all of existence and the timeline. That could be a thing. We might not see him again. What if he turns to spaghetti and that's just it? And that's their way of being like, oh, I feel like what I just said was much more definitive. I'm saying it could end with deleting him from everything. Kang's just gone. Why is that any more or less possible? Exactly. He can write reality to his whip. Yeah, that could have been it. But he's like, no, it's clearly setting. He's seen up to episode five just like us, and he's saying it's clear that they set in Kang up for more. It's like, are they? Is that what's happening? I just love what he says. Oh, they're setting things up. It's like such as you don't know what's happened to that show. Neither do we. Exactly. That going switching over so quickly to Dr. Doom would be the right direction to go. I think if worse comes to worse, Marvel should, you know, depending on the way the legal battles work out, Marvel should completely recast Jonathan Majors and move forward with Kang. We spent so much time. So he said it would be bad to move to Dr. Doom. We should recast Kang, which is I don't even look. It's bad either way. It'll be horribly the way there's nothing to do with the actors at this point or even the characters. Yeah, the writers. What if it comes out that Jonathan Majors is guilty of whatever and he's not going to be in it anymore? Then I'm like, damn, what do you do? Well, I guess if we were put in charge, recast Kang's bit, you can't really do anything other than that, right? I don't know. I guess I would just I would be tempted to actually great the new actor is if we have time, maybe write it so that Loki does a race and we just get rid of Kang and we just buy and we do bring in someone else. Oh, yeah, Loki ends. We have Loki ending with that's what or that's what Loki kind of does is like, well, the Kang is the big bad that's going to this is my home planet needs me. He turns a spaghetti on the way back. Yes, I'm guys building up Kang with the Loki series with all of the multiverse. What has been built up? What has? Yeah, exactly. What has been built? He seems to be just some some loser, you know, kind of what the biggest building scene for him is, is the after credit scene in Quantamania. That's possibly the only thing that builds him up. But look at how many there are and look at all the different ones and oh, there's a hierarchy and that they have plans. You could easily wreck on that with someone waking up from a nightmare. I go, oh, wow, that was a crazy dream. All of us get all the Loki talks to people about how I saw him. I connected with him through the entire timeline. The plans he had, he was horrendous. I got rid of it. I killed it all. It was it was, you know, terrifying. But let me just write it so that by doing that, you leave a gap open and that's Dr. Doom somehow, whatever. Fuck it. I don't know what I'm just. Stuff we've, if it's felt like the entire face form, face five has all been just putting something that I'm curious about. No, no, no, no, no, come on. Do you hear what you just said? Let's let's rewind a little bit. Has all been just putting all of their chips into Kang. All of phase four and five have put all their chips into Kang. No, they haven't. The vast majority of the stories have nothing to do with them. There's no reference to Kang in 80 percent of the projects. Yeah, 85 again, maybe 84 because really it was low key. It was Quantamania and it was low key season two. Yep. And that's it. And is it? Yeah, there's nothing else. What are you talking about? Nothing to do with them. What in Falcon and the Winter Soldier in one division in fucking She-Hulk one of all of the leads and Moonlight and Miss Marvel and Hawkeye led to Kang and multiverse of madness. The multiverse movie. Yeah, you're right. No reference to Kang in that. Yeah. What are you talking about? The phase four and five led to him. I just I don't know how much. Yeah, how much are people really tied and invested into Kang? I don't think much at all. I don't. That's what I feel. I don't feel like they're invested in that big of a deal from the audience perspective. They're invested in what he might mean. That's not what he is. Yeah, exactly. Because I find it so there was a there was like a trailer for the Marvel's recent one where I think I think the text on screen said be there for what comes next and as the text faded away, the X in next stayed there for a little bit longer. And to me, that just felt like so indicative of kind of the nature of how Marvel works. It's always about what's next. It's never about what's happening right now. It's always the potential. The teaser for the future. The simplest calculation. Why is that good? Well, because it references this. And why is that good? Because I like that. It's like, yeah, but that's not. Maybe I'll see something. I imagine it in my head and the anticipation of it is more exciting than the actual thing. And instead of reflecting on what that means in terms of my approach to movies, I'm just going to accept it and continue to run with it even when it yields these results. What I'm curious about now is I wonder I wonder what his angle is going to be for the Marvel's. I wonder if he now is going to jump ship on that one and abandon the Marvel's and leave it. He'll see what the sentiment is going to sort of be. Yeah, he'll wait and see what you look like. Yeah, he'll he'll talk about how he's excited and everything, but he'll leave himself room to be able to walk out and say, boy, that was so disappointing. Everything I said was true. Like and subscribe. Like it's moving forward from Kang into with into Doctor Doom. Don't get me excited. I'm super excited to see Doctor Doom. But I'm sure you are. Kang would feel like such a disservice to everything we've gotten up to this point. You did. Name them. Name it. Yeah. It's just it is funny because it's like because you know what? I'll be nice and say there is a there is something to what he's saying in terms of like there's nothing else. What else has been built up? So like, well, yeah, there isn't anything. There's nothing we're heading toward, except Kang is going to be a bad guy who does stuff. That's basically all we've done. So you got that. But like, who cares? I guess he's treating it as though he's like such a waste. It's like. Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. Interest or input a disclaimer at the start of his new video asking react streamers to wait 48 hours before re-uploading their stream to YouTube. Oh, yeah. Interesting. I feel like this is indicative of the steps that we said are going to happen eventually pushing further and further forward. And this isn't because necessarily of the the, you know, recognized statistical damage reactors have done. It's more so, I think the reaction reactors had to being called out. Yeah, exactly. They could have covered this well and chill, but instead like they decided to jump in front of the Japanese house. Yeah, you've got some interesting reactions. I'm not going to lie. With Loki with no way home with multi risk of madness with one. What? What's he doing in my home instead of Loki? You see how he's strong when there is one? Yeah, because he was like with Loki with. Oh, shit. Yeah, do it. And what? Say my name. And what in Loki is set up? Tell me, what is it that you've said? What are you waiting for? What do you know about Kang as a character? And the first question should be, well, which one? What one? When one? Because he who remains cringe name is not Kang. Yes. What's up the Lord behind the multiverse continuing to tease the law? I am unless that act like Marvel hasn't recasted people before and Kang is arguably the easiest person to ever recast because he just has a million different I don't like. All the variants have suspiciously looking exactly like him. All are him. Yeah, it's it's kind of the funny thing. Spider-Man can get away with it. Let's not fuck around. Many, many. Sometimes it's not even really the controversy. You know, if you have like a really crappy actor or an actor that no one likes getting recast, nobody really cares. Even if in the narrative, it's wonky. It's more so I feel the meta stuff actually bleeds more into this. It's so high profile recasting Jonathan Majors. Everyone recognizes what's happening. What's happening and why? Yeah, you can give all of the in universe, blah, blah, blah that you want. No one's going to be thinking about that. They'll be like, no, he punched his girlfriend. That's why. If that's yeah, if that ends up being it, that's we all know there's no like, oh, well, it makes sense. It's like. Make sense. It's dumb as fuck variants out there. So you could literally just have, let's say Marvel wants to recast with John Boyega with John David Washington. He ain't coming back. We're going to have that variant of Kang that's played by that actor coming in mop all of the other Kings. And right there, you have that are really hearing to the threat of him. For some reason, John Boyega comes back and then there's a scene of him killing all of the the Jonathan Majors. Kang's like. Why? Sure, it's an after credit series just stabbing them all of the land that is way more medicine than any of the other Kings we've gotten in the past. And that is I thought that's what the quantum manual was supposed to be. Yeah, I thought they'd built up. I thought they were building stuff up, buddy. What do you mean that he's not met a single threatening? Yeah, I thought that it's like, oh, Kang may have been a professional clown before material. But now they were building up. An easy way to just recast Kang and set up a new Kang bearing to be the ultimate crescendo piece that's going to bring the entire multiverse together. Now, another thing this variety article mentioned, do you see that, though, the implication that if we can just do that, we're good. And we're good. As if like, what? No, it's such a horrible mess right now. And he said it's in shambles. That's right. We could just call the MCU was in shambles dot dot dot. And which absolutely on someone just said, yeah, didn't. Isn't the start of Kang's story that he killed all the other Cags? Yeah. Like, so I guess, yeah, we're going to do it again, but with a different look in Cags. My mind that seeps into that imagery was what they were talking about when it comes to the Blade movie that's supposed to start Mahershala Ali. This was a film that was announced in 2019. And I want to make it very clear that, guys, this wasn't a movie that Marvel originally had planned. Mahershala Ali, after winning an Oscar called Kevin Feige and said, I want to do Blade. That is the most like home run, knock it out of the park. Easiest thing to do. Just a solid standalone Blade film with Mahershala Ali. And that's it. And this I don't even know if that's true, by the way, but if it is, yes. If it is, yeah, I mean, you've got the actor who wants to do it. Everyone knows about Blade. It would be a cool sort of thing, especially if it was like tonally just different than everything else. And it's this cool standalone kind of idea with vampires in it. And swords and guns and stuff is like, OK, you know, Disney could dip their tone to that and see how it does. And I mean, it doesn't have to be a high budget thing. Could be fun, could be cool. You might earn yourself a lot of brownie points with people. So it has been development for years. And now, you know, and Marvel marvelled it and they made something crap and then it destroyed the whole production crazy. It's not like that's been happening with everything else, except with creatives that are actually kind of OK with just accepting that as fact. Like, that's the impression I got from the behind the scenes of Quantumania is that, you know, Paul Rudd, Michelle Pfeiffer, fucking Michael Douglas, obviously, and Bill Murray. You don't care. They're just like, give me the script. I'll say the thing, whatever, whatever this is. Yeah, I like that. You know, I'm giving a paycheck movie shit. I'll take it. Let's do it. Meanwhile, someone like Mahesh Lali was a little bit like, I no, no, no, I want to make I want to make an actual film. I want to make a good movie. Yeah. We've got some details on what's been going on with all of the different scripts. Apparently, at one point, one of the scripts had the story revolving around a group of women teaching us life lessons. And Blade was the fourth most important character in the movie. So I guess he has a he has a decision to make then about what his angle is going to be on this. Yeah, I'm wondering. Yeah, which I'm more curious about these sorts of decisions than what he's actually saying. What are you going to take with this knowledge? Well, the easiest angle is making Blade the fourth lead in his own movie in a blade movie. Yeah. Let's you know, I think that's probably what he's going to do. I mean, he's probably not going to say this is in a long line of trying to replace all these characters with, you know, that the guy might. I mean, remember South Park was out at this point. So that's true. But I'm curious. Let's see. All right. First of all, I don't reference if anyone knows what I'm talking about with that. It's just that with South Park having said it, it just makes it easier for everyone to say it as simple as that. Your stand. How in any film your title character could be the fourth. Yes, there you go. Let alone having that character be played by Oscar winning actor Mahershala Ali. Like you can have Oscar winning characters that are fourth main by side. Yeah. I guess the whole thing is it. But like, did you complain about this with all the other Marvel stuff where you have the character or by like getting a stellar Scott Scott playing random scientist who barely gets any screen time? Isn't that fucking upsetting? No. It's like, yeah, because you're allowed to have. He was naked at Stonehenge. His greatest role, obviously. The finding role is career. What happens to us just getting a movie about a dude killing vampire? It makes me think about like Lutheran's speech and whatever he kind of pauses and looks away. It cuts him running around naked at Stonehenge. And then he just goes back to his speech. You have to play some sad piano music as well every time. And it's in black and white. Do do do do do do. Do do do do do do. I've had to use the enemy's tactics. I'm doomed to use the tactics of my enemy. I have to sacrifice everything. Stonehenge. I just make that as a meme. Please send it to me. I'm sure they will if you ask for it. I'm saucing people up. That's literally all we're asking for. Again, it's the easiest thing on the surface. It's the easiest thing to do. But now, again, on we're looking to the bright side now. Kevin Feige basically saw that and he said, OK, so screw. Oh, I did Kevin. OK, yeah, cool. All right, smart man. Like you found a way to get past it without talking about it. And you just talk about how it's yes, it's just interesting. I think it's an easy fucking dug as well for women or whatever they have for the three women main characters talking about life lessons. It's so fucking funny. What you want to say, you know, I fight. Yeah, through all of that, you're all fired. I'm hiring the writer of Logan. I'm mad. I don't get. Why is this? What is this like? Feige like obsession that's so weird. Because he's gone. I love that we do like like crediting Feige for cleaning up all the shit on the floor when he was the one who shot when he hired all these people. He's the producer. They're all called a Kevin Feige production. Yeah, like, like, why are you saying, like, Kevin's fixing it all up? I was like, what do you mean? Kevin's cleaning house after he hired all these people. And Mahershala was already ready to leave the project because there's been so much going on with it behind the scenes that now the writer of Logan, who is obviously a very competent writer, Logan is one of the greatest. Name one other film that he's written. Come on, I mean, I just find it funny that it's like, oh, yeah, no, he's really good. It's like, do you even know anything else that he's written? Do you even know he existed until the article mentioned him? Now he's writing the new script and Mahershala is still on board. So hopefully this blade movie actually turns a turn takes a turn for the better and we can finally get this film. And apparently, you know, one of the tidbits that they had in there was that the film is now being made to it's now being made with a budget that's projected to be under a hundred million dollars. So it'd be one of the cheaper Marvel film. I think we talked about it feels to me like a blade film can be done for a pretty cheap maybe maybe not. I don't know if I call it cheap, but definitely not fucking two hundred million is not needed. You know, yeah. Why? Most of it, it's going to be mostly like it's a contemporary setting. You can buy a smoke machine, go into some nightclubs and some industrial areas. Every once in a while, you have a transformation of a vampire. Have all the vampire make up be, you know, you know, your CG is mainly in the killing of the vampires and yeah, which should be too difficult. Do here. What was Van Helsing? I think that was high. It was expensive. Yeah. Well, Van Helsing was a hundred sixty million. Yeah. Who's high? Well, I guess the more relevant one. I'm told was only seven million. More relevant one would be the first blade was forty five million. Yes. That's the better comparison. Yo, Underworld was twenty two million. Oh, yeah, those movies are pretty cheap. In terms of budget. Remember Resident Evil movies, they're pretty cheap. And they made lots of money. When it comes to a blade film, that's definitely a film they can make for under a hundred million dollars because the action could be so practical. You know, the action, the O. G. Wesley Snipes movies were was fire itself. I agree. In fact, no action in movies. Well, he obviously is referring to like physical stuff. It's like, so let me get this straight in terms of my criticism here. I think he's completely wrong. The the action in a blade film. Let's compare it to a daredevil or even like, you know, you know, I'm going to get it right. Like, blade requires a lot of CG work because when he kills a vampire, they have to turn to like a fiery dust. It's you can't do that really physically. It's pretty difficult. Like, yeah, it depends on how many vampires he kills and how often. But if you if you kept your CGI sort of relegated to that kind of thing, it probably wouldn't be too bad. Well, sure. But like to say that blade, especially is the one that we can do practically is like, I wouldn't say especially, I would say, like, do isn't like it doesn't need to be particularly CGI intensive. Like at the top of the scale, you'll have a maybe Superman or like Doctor Strange where it's like, well, most of this is going to have to be CG, because it's, you know, like how else I guess Superman is ways around it, of course. But well, maybe Aquaman, right? That'd be like, yeah. And then lower end of the scale. I don't know. Daredevil, I'd say. Yeah, that's pretty much you need someone who's acrobatic, relatively strong. And then they can sort of sort everything out. But, you know, yeah, blade is not someone I sort of. I just wouldn't associate it with like, oh, that's low on the CG requests. I'm so low. Yeah, but not like. Yeah, lower than the highest, of course. And I don't know where I'd rate him, but it's just that I don't know. It's still a lot of work needs to be done. I would want it to still look awesome. You know, they could do now today in the present day with someone like Mahershala Lee. Sign me up. I just hope Marvel. Well, I'm glad Marvel made the necessary steps because I swear to God, if we got a blade movie where they've made the necessary steps. And it's the movie is just led by just this thing, your life lessons and blade is just in the background over there. People are kind of I wasn't going to say anything, but I guess I'm guessing. Well, yeah, I mean that. Yeah, that could be like a joints thing or it could be just yeah, they kind of go outwards. Yeah, that's a fire that's been happening over at Marvel Studios for a while. Now, it's how they've been handing the Disney plus shows. You know, yes, because that is the narrative. That's the narrative. It's really the problem. Tell me about the shows. That's weird, because I thought people could easily acknowledge at least some of the films being trash always. Some of the movies have been bad. Yeah, I mean, remember, well, it's just, you know, because I imagine that he buys into the accepted ones, right? Eternals is bad. Quantum Mania is bad. What would be what's another? I thought Love and Thunder is probably in the mix as well. Yeah, that one's safe. Yeah, those are the safe ones. Yeah, those are the safe ones. You won't say what kind of forever or multiverse of madness. Yeah, I think. Yeah, multiverse of madness. I mean, yeah, he said, again, is good. He said Shang Chi, which is an interesting one, because again, please tell me anything that happened in that movie. Yeah, he knew territory for Marvel when it comes to Phase Four and Phase Five, because they didn't need to worry about no Disney Plus shows when it came to the Infinity Saga. But now when it comes to Disney Plus, Marvel has been making the necessary adjustments to actually make these shows and uphold the quality that we're used to. I have they been making the necessary. OK, oh, well, OK, then I thought he was going to say we've been we've been making them to reflect like the story lines to include them to have them support the movie. But no, he just said that the quality is it's like, bro, the fucking TV shows have got way worse if we're going to compare to phase two or three. Secret invasion. The most re-enloyal. Daredevil, the show and Punisher, the show and even take agent Carter, agents of shields. Different vision, though. No, just the point being that if you're going to talk about it in a broad sense of Marvel TV shows that were happening at that point and that the ones now are being raised to the film's quality, it's like, what do you mean? They're way worse. They are. Yeah, yeah, I get it. Well, it seems like he's he's he's made a mistake that he doesn't recognize. He's like extrapolated something that wasn't even present in the article, which is that changes are being made to the way that films the TV shows are going to be produced in the future that will make them better. Because again, the vast majority of the stuff that's going to be coming out for the next year has already been shot, like iron hearts being shot, echoes being shot and is now coming out. What's the other one that they what's the fucking isn't it's another one? Oh, Arcanus. Oh, yeah, that one's mainly shot, too. So it's like what changes and how do you even know that they're making the necessary changes when none of that has manifested in something that you can actually watch and verify? Why would you talk about it? Like it's a foregone conclusion that everything's better. Yeah, they've just there's no reason to believe it. Nothing's happening. The writer's strike just ended and the after strike is still going. Nothing's happening right now. How like, well, the irony as well, say these things is that if you look at the changes they plan to make for the TV shows, all they're doing is doing it as it's been done by everyone else for some reason. They didn't do that. Yeah, like the idea is like, OK, that doesn't really actually solve anything because that just catches you up to fucking reality. Exactly. And plus, the fact that apparently we're dead, well, they're going to be reusing some of the stuff that they already shot rather than starting completely all over again makes me wonder. It's like, yeah, I don't know if that's the total overhaul that everybody kind of wants. That seems like it could yield some really bad results. When it comes to Daredevil Born again, we recently heard that they completely scrapped everything that they know not true. They didn't know they didn't apparently they're going to be reusing a lot of stuff that they've already done, which doesn't surprise me because it's fucking wild to stop that much of everything. Yeah. And also with their track record, maybe they got rid of a lot of good stuff and are just replaced. Yeah, the big that's the fundamental big problem. They don't know what good is. They have no idea. Well, one of the one of the one of the things that was brought up was Daredevil doesn't suit up until episode four. That doesn't mean anything to me good or bad. That there's nothing for me to. But like the fact that that was perceived as a necessarily bad thing is like us, you still don't get it. That could be good that we don't see him suit up for several episodes. It could be good that it's more of like a conventional courtroom. Even if it's not, you know, like the like the Netflix show. It's starting over completely fresh with showrunners and they actually got the same showrunners that ran the OG Netflix Punisher show with. Yeah, which you see how we almost what you want to hear when he says the the OG like, oh, Punisher. You're like, wait, well, that's not Daredevil. Why didn't you say Daredevil? They got to do a show who's done shows before. It's not. Well, the the main thing is that's what everyone was asking for, is bring back the fucking creators of the one we like. That's like the easy thing like that team doesn't exist in some coherent like single way anymore. They're probably all working on different things. It's Jovo. Super exciting. And they also have the same directors that directed the majority of the Loki episodes coming to know, which means nothing really to me, if anything, that's a bad sign. Yeah, if the people who made Loki believe that what they made with Loki was top tier, it's like, oh, right. Daredevil won again. So I'm super optimistic about that. And I'm glad again, Marvel. But you never would if the if the opposite was nothing changed and they were moving forward with Daredevil won again as it was. You'd still think it was good, probably, probably. Yeah, maybe you wouldn't. That's like, I need you to tell me what was a bad project and why and what was a good project and why. When were you ever concerned about a project before Variety told you that you should be concerned about it or the Hollywood reporter or deadline? Yeah, this video incidentally comes out now and it's about this article. Hmm. All right. All right. Because when when they make these moves, they know this isn't going to look good to the public. They know they know when it's announced that they're scrapping everything they've done for Daredevil born again and starting over fresh. That's not a good look. But there's still going to go through that in order to give us the best is so funny to me. Like, all right, there we go. The silver lining with every single thing that ever happens. Like, it's good that they've done this because it's something that they know could be bad to be seen doing it. So that's good. It looks really bad. And that's why it's so good. You know, when they reshot Secret Invasion, it's because they knew that they didn't have a good script and they're putting in all of the effort that they need to do all the necessary changes to make it the best show ever, which is good, even if it's horrible. Product they could possibly make and props to Marvel for that. One thing that was mentioned in this article is that the sheer of series cost over two hundred and twenty five million dollars. That's been known for a while to put that into perspective information. That's more expensive than the budget for the first Avengers movie. Well, is that true with adjusting for inflation? No, probably not. It's been 10 years and inflation, you know, it's kind of gone up over. Which is really important. A lot of people say it and see it as like a dismissible thing. But when you adjust for inflation, it tells you the actual answer. That's the point of that. Well, it's the important thing with inflation as well as box office gross. Like, dudes, yeah, you make the same amount of money. Ten years later, it ain't the same amount of money. Yep. Don't know how that's possible, but I digress. Now, guys, I highly recommend you guys go and check out this article and read it for yourself. Oh, is he excited? Imagine he's on the boat of She-Hulk is bad as well, right? That's like that's one of the more accepted surely. Yeah. If he's against the TV shows somewhat, then that's got to be one of the ones that goes down because there's just a lot of stuff in there. But the biggest thing he's not going to say anything about like Falcon in the winter. So oh my God, he's about to talk about the Marvels, I think. Oh, no. And this entire article is that Marvel has been discussing plans to revive Robert Downey Jr. Oh, no, no, no. Scarlett Johansson, Tony Stark and Black Widow and I don't think the article said that's what they're considering. No, the article said that that was loaded in possibility. Yeah, like that's like I think the article said like that is an option that could be pursued. I don't think the article ever ever said, yeah, this is something they're thinking about doing. Or that they're actually making meaningful plans to do it right. Yeah. Bringing back the original adventures for a new adventures movie. Now, there are multiple ways you can look at this. When I hear the word, the only there's one way to look at it. That's hilarious and embarrassing. Yeah. And yeah, that's it. It will not happen. There's no real like it's not going to happen. There's no way who the fuck says like, oh, that's amazing. What a great idea. Like, OK. Reviving Tony Stark and reviving Black Widow. To me, that sounds like they're actually reviving the characters that made those amazing. Oh, my God. All right. He didn't read the article. He didn't read the article or he skimmed it or. I don't remember the word reviving being in the article at all. Does he think this is a good idea? Well, we'll see. Sacrifices that made Avengers Endgame so special. And the thought of that is insane because it would completely take away what made Endgame so special. There you go. Good. Yes. Tony Stark's funeral. OK, there we go. Sacrifice for the soul stone. Look at you guys. That is what made Endgame so special. And if they revive these characters, it completely takes away all of that. Oh, my God. Look at you go. It's completely different than Tony Stark and Black Widow appearing as variants of themselves and sequel. Oh, OK. Well, OK, he gets he gets like half a point, point two, five. You get like half credit for like starting to have the correct idea and pooping on it. But at least you have something to poop on. Yeah, no, I'm sure. You know, we were right there, man. He would you bait it. That's right. We were jubated. Yeah, we were jubated. We all expected that. We all expect that first half. That's what's going to I don't care if we expect them to do something. Shit, it's still shit when they do it to do it. Yeah. It's going to be a ton of variants of different Marvel characters. We all know and love that we all grew up with coming together and interacting with other. I got to say, I hate the term variant because it implies that there's like some actual like validity to it. Like an original. Yeah, like there's a real one and then a bunch of fake ones. I don't like the term variant. Oh, that right. Yeah, I thought you would say like the fact that it almost makes it sound like it's an accepted thing that we all know is coming and is good and is a part of stories variants. It's like, no, no, no, of course not. No, the variants. Same Tom McGuire, Spider-Man, interact with you, Jackman. So this gives you the insight that this is the kind of lad this is. He loves this stuff. He would Marvel is sitting there watching this video gone, uh-huh, Toby McGuire, Spider-Man. Yeah, yeah. Well, with that on the list, writing in their note, how much money we can give them. Robert Downey, Jr.'s Iron Man. Now, it's not going to be the same Iron Man that we know from endgame. It'll be a variant. Don't worry. It'll be great. It'll be a very different actor. And he sounds the same. That would still be pretty damn epic. And that's what we are. Why? Why? Why? That would be an epic victory, Royale. Why? Because he likes Iron Man. And it means that he doesn't have to worry about the sacrifice being undermined in textual formats. It's just cool to have him back. He gets to win for him. He gets the key jangle without it ruining anything that came before. OK. That's what we all expect out of Secret Wars. But that. What do you expect? I don't know, man. Well, to be fair, I do expect that, but not for the same reasons he does. Not because it's a good thing, because that's a bad, splicey. It's a shit thing, specifically because it's a shit thing. Yeah. Is not what this article sounds like it's referring to. This article is saying it's reviving Tony Stark and Black Widow. And to me, when I hear that, no, it's not once for a second. Is that ever here? Anyway, I guess I did they use the term reviving in the article? Let me double check. Let me take a look. I don't remember. I feel like if they had, we would have talked about it, right? All right. This would include reviving, Robert. Let's see. With Iger publicly acknowledging the downside of a Marvel TV glut that diluted focus and attention, the keepers of the comic book empire are considering some dramatic moves. Sources say there have been talks to bring back the original gang for an Avengers movie. This would include reviving Robert Downey Jr.'s Iron Man and Scarlett Johansson's Black Widow, both of whom were killed off an in-game. Does this article consider low key to have been revived, for instance? Well, this is what I was going to say. The disconnect I have with this guy, I guess, is that I never would have thought they meant bringing like reviving, like actually bringing back the characters that died in those films. I assumed it was a multi-verse thing. Yeah, considering the era that we're in. Yeah, I wouldn't have thought they'd bring back those specific comics from it. But but you know what? Maybe they would. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, I would. Maybe I shouldn't rule it out. Maybe he's right. Anyone's saying that Marvel's reviving Hugh Jackman's Wolverine? No, because this Wolverine we're seeing in Deadpool 3 is just a. No, I think the director said that Logan's canon, my man. So maybe it is actually. Well, I was going to say, how does he? OK, so this is actually. It's confusing because Logan's continuity expresses that it's within the timeline of like, at least it's got it's got references to the Wolverine in there, right? It's got the sword. The problem is it's complicated because it's like it's like things ran that played out the same, but some things were different. And I think Deadpool, I think Deadpool is in the timeline of Logan and not like the timeline that led up to Days of Future Past. It's very confusing because Logan, I don't think anyone thinks of the X-Men universe as like Logan is the sequel to some of the like, even though you could, I don't think it feels that. You know, like if you draw a map of like the franchises, when it goes like, say, for example, Halloween, one Halloween, two Halloween, three, and then you have the reboot. It like will draw lines in different directions. It wouldn't like continue in the same vein or a spin-offs or ones that are set years before in a different way. Or maybe it is kind of like years after, but regards to different characters, just like these Logan is like seen as a it's on a bit of an island, that film, but in the same vein, I guess, what the Wolverine is to and X-Men Origins Wolverine, then I don't think they're seen as like episodes episodes like four, five and six in the X-Men box universe, even though there is the sharing continuity. If you know what I mean, not like X-Men one, two, three, where it's like, oh, yeah, that's a it's all the following story. Logan is the prequel to X-Men one. No, it isn't. Well, it's set way further forward. Yeah, well, it's even the latest in the timeline. Correct me if I'm wrong. But isn't the idea that they they cured mutants or whatever and they all got killed slash cured is not the future that we're in. What happened was that it was that Charles Xavier had like an episode when, you know, how I had the thing where. Oh, yeah. But it's not just it's not just the X-Men themselves. It's also mutants in general, right? It's basically more mutants left. Yeah. I can't remember if that's taking from which of the many continuities potential because you have days of future past and first class and apocalypse. So as I understand it, it's the days of future past is like the inflection, like that's where it starts to divide. Right. So you have the original timeline that plays out, but then like apocalypse, dark phoenix, I think the Deadpool movies, they're like from days of future past afterward in a different timeline. And which one is Logan attached to? Logan is the like the second timeline. So that'd be, you know, days of future past travels back in time, stops the stops the sentinels. Oh, by the way, Vox are now correct. They weren't back when we first covered them in episode, I think 11 or 10 of EFAP, where they said the continuity in the Fox universe is far better than the MCUs. We laughed at them for that, but they are now correct. Yes, they are. Yeah. Good for them. Yeah. Different variant, or he's coming from a different point in time. But at no point was anyone saying, oh, Marvel's reviving Hugh Jackman's Wolverine, because they've said it multiple times that the low that the Wolverine and Logan is completely separate from the Wolverine we're going to see in Deadpool three. Whatever that means. No, but they know they've sent mixed messages. You can say this all you want, but they've definitely sent mixed messages on. And come in. There's an elephant in the room here. There's a lot of people take issue with bringing him back in any way, shape or form. In general, exactly, because he had a story that ended. So even if you say, like, oh, yeah, but it's a variant that's like that doesn't really address the fundamental point, which is he had a story it's over. And now you're dragging him back because you need to make some more money. Yeah. But there's there's a sense that the more we see him after is, you know, ending to his story, that the less that ending is his ending. It's more so just an episode. Exactly. And I mean, he has to understand that, right? You think so. When it comes to all of this multiverse and if someone said, like, oh, so no more Wolverine is like no more Hugh Jackman Wolverine. That's kind of your Jackman Wolverine, different guy, different character, different actor, change the actor and people will be like, it's so easy to know that it's a different one if you change the actor. That's the number one we all agree that it's a really difficult character to, you know, do well after how well Hugh Jackman did it. But that we'd all be willing to give someone a shot who's well cast, right? Yeah, there's been plenty of James Bond's song. You can bring him back to O.G. Avengers. I think we all kind of expected that the original O.G. Avengers would come back and something like see their nose. I don't want to be clear. I don't want them to. But I might have expected them to because of Marvel being so shit. Sure. But now I'm not so sure because they need to pay them more money than probably afford to get them back as we talked about. Yeah, we know met a reasons for why like I don't believe Scarlett Hans would ever come back. Maybe I'm wrong. Why would she after what happened? She as much as you could say like, well, it's just a matter of money, right? And it's like maybe, but she's also super into the art of filmmaking from what I gather. Exactly. She also has. She has money. She has fucking money. Yeah, she might as well. There's a lot of people where like they get so rich. They're like, it just doesn't matter anymore. Like what am I going to spend this? Like I've got enough. I want to do me stuff now. I hear the term reviving Tony Stark and reviving Black Widow. To me, one, there's no longevity in that because these these characters and these actors have already dedicated over a decade of their lives. Now, I guess though, the the counter would be if Marvel could get a guaranteed W from it, they just do it, even if they knew there wouldn't be multiples of them. He said there's no longevity because we know that they've already put so much of their lives into it. Like the implication being they wouldn't give much more or whatever. It's just like, well, we we never know how long you're handsome. She's not that old, man. Well, she's not old. She's fit. It goes both ways, though. Like we could have we could have, you know, Harrison Ford is joining the MCU as Ross Sue. It's like, how long are we going to have him for? I don't know. Yeah, I mean, he could be one movie or at this point. Yeah. Who the fuck? Like the idea that's like, well, you know, that that means we can't get invested because Robert Downey Jr. probably wouldn't come back for more than one. It's like, what argument is that I've been invested in characters that only showed up for parts of a you know, I've been invested in characters who, yeah, you know, a lot of movies don't have sequels. Did you know that a lot of them don't have sequels to these roles and realistically speaking, Robert Downey Jr., Chris Evans, Scarlett Johansson. Chris Evans is probably not coming back. It seems like he's very much done as well. He's ready to move on. I don't know. It's just he said a lot of things that seem indicative of like, yeah, I'm a bit tired of it. Like it kind of it went for a long time and I'd rather do other things. Could be, could be. I don't know for some reason for me, if I heard an article or an announcement for him saying I am returning as a guest spot in like a fucking event, just a multi-vis thing. I'd be like, huh, OK. Yeah. Meanwhile, if it's either Scarlett Johansson or Robert Downey Jr., I'm going to be like really, really. Yes, that would be more surprising. OG gang, they're not going to come back and just reprise these roles consistently the way they used to in the Infinity Saga that revolved completely around them. They said goodbye to their characters. They've already had that moment that that where we sat down during the end credit during the credits of endgame and we saw all other signatures and that was their goodbye wave to the to the audience. They've already had that moment. So there's no way in hell that they would come back consistently. But that's not true. Do you know that's not fucking people put their signatures on that that are still here? Well, so that's better is still here. And if and even if they didn't come back consistently, if they only showed up one more time, why is that like a disaster in your mind? Why is that unfathomable and untenable? And you know, it's so funny to me because it's just like it's this Marvel. They'll do anything. If it's going to work, we'll do it. I'm I've I've put it as there's like different sort of flags to let let everyone know like what stages we're at. And one of the big ones was bringing back Iron Man. That was like a big like, oh, we're in serious trouble. But the ultimate like I don't think it gets any worse than having something like Iron Man fighting Darth Vader. That's where it's like, oh, where it's dead. It's all dead. Disney's actually dead. Yeah, Star Wars theory would think that's I'm sure. Oh, and then when you got to have Mickey Mouse there as well, though, right? Yeah, but it's Palpatine. So, you know, when you know, like in episode three, he goes on a little bit of power to get up. Yeah, that's right. Even if they revived Tony Stark and Black Widow for a new Avengers movie, to me, that takes man, he's obsessed with this particular which is the fact that it was the end game. It was us saying bye to the journey that we've been on for the past 10 years. True. Well, but the funny thing, of course, it's like, well, should he say just buy those two? Because everything else continues drags on the corpse slowly through the fucking desert. To me, it's just to move that screams desperation because Marvel knows we're at this great time with them. Sure. I'm sorry. A white vision series isn't going to bring the MCU back to its glory days. Is that actually happening? What if it was what? But what if it was incredible? What if it was like the most I don't know. I think maybe I'm with him that even if even if it was 11 out of 10, right, it wouldn't matter. It just wouldn't matter. How many 11 how many 11 out of 10 does it take a lot? It's the exact same thing in reverse now. In order to get their ship back, they have to make great things again and again and again and again. Distantly. Getting one or two is not enough that you need because great things that were like established, well recognized series. That's like that makes it easier because more people are likely to pay. But like we've seen it out somehow to be incredible. Very few people are going to watch that show. We're going to see it, I hope, with Game of Thrones overall reputation, right? It was on the fucking floor and then House of Dragon comes out and you have the sentiment is like, at least from my POV, a big old black cloud is just sitting over the idea that it could be good because it's part of Game of Thrones, even though you check the creators, not necessarily. There's some crossover here and there, all new characters here could be good. You watch season one for the purpose of review and that black cloud is gone for me. It's like now season two is coming out. I can be a part of promoting it, you know, just by being a normal person who says the show looks good and is good, if it's good. What I guess I'm saying is that if they create a season two and three that says good as season one, then by the time we hit the end of season three, we're going to be like, oh, God, what else have you got? Give us another one. You know, and it's like, oh, shit, they've actually managed to undo a lot of the damage that Game of Thrones did to the overall sense of the IP, even though, like I said, it is different. But with Marvel, yeah, if they did, if they did White Vision, the TV show, it was incredible. I feel like it would be like AdDoor, it would be like nobody gives a shit if they call it White Vision. They have to call it White Vision. I think it's called Vision Quest, right? Yes. Oh, no, is it? Yeah, I think so. Yep. And, you know, you need that to be good. You need you need several movies and TV shows to be really fucking and maybe not even good. You have to be great to pull everyone back in. Need superstars in the game. The X men are on the bench right now. It's not that's really not the like he's not entirely right, as in like, you know, like the part of the problem with that White Vision show would be if it were great. It's like, well, it's about a robot that people don't even understand from a show. It's like a spin off of a spin off almost. You know what I mean? It's like, but if it were a TV show simply called Wolverine and it was it was it was amazing. It's like, yeah, that would that would faster regenerate the MCU. That's true. Just because I get more eyeballs. The thing is, though, he seems to be focused on the fact that it needs to be about stars when it's like, well, the more important thing is the writing, but also making it about characters. People actually give a shit about that is an important aspect to it. It's time to cue them in the fantastic for we know we're on the way. All of the characters in Deadpool three, we know they're on the way. Everything that's going down in secours, that's going to be fire. Is it? Why? How do you know that? Is it? You said that the MCU is in shambles and yet that's going to be fire. OK, it is. But Marvel needs to put the superstars back in the game because when it comes to Phase Four, you know, someone actually did the math. We've met 57 new superheroes. Oh, shit. That's what they was 57 then. OK. And oh my God. In Phase Four and Phase Five, that is actually fucking nuts. How many superheroes are introduced in Phase One, Two and Three? What, like seven? Well, it's probably like I'm including like even Falcon, you know, like. Well, Falcon was Phase Two. That's why I said Phase One, Two and Three. Oh, Phase One, Two and Three. Oh. I guess it probably would have been comparable, right? How many of them were there? I will. So the big question is were they more introduced in Phase Four than they were in Phase One, Two and Three, but together, I wonder. But we should have a criteria of like they should have a power of some kind that can't just be like, you know, random person. I'm not sure. Obviously, we can't really do that right now, but still it'll be interesting. Alone. And at this point in time, we don't know the next time we're going to see Shang-Chi. We don't know the next time we're going to see the Eternals. That's not the problem. It's really not actually the problem at all. You have to make them good. You have to make these movies good. You have to make these character. It doesn't matter how many. If they came seven shitty characters, then why would I care? Because why do I think that a pile of shit is better because it's bigger? If they came with like a thing at the end or a very sterile person room, it's just it's just like, you will see the Eternals in three more projects. Bye. Doesn't make it better. OK, it's like, what am I supposed to do with this? Yep. No, if you want to get people butts in seats and you want to get people invested in the MCU again. You got to write it well. Simple. You have to write it well. The writing has to be good. Characters have to be likeable and endearing. You have to bring in the superstars that people actually care about outside of the movie. You know the fastest way to put people off the MCU of being to bring in the superstars and write them badly. I have to say, if you make X-Men and it sucks, it's over. It's so fucking over. You're finished. The X-Men have always been Marvel's most popular group of characters. Yeah, but not when they shit, is it? Yeah, well, they haven't always been. I mean, Dark Phoenix failed like it doesn't mean in the comics they were. But in the comics, well, I mean, you Spider-Man, you know, X-Men was really popular in the 90s, like in the early 2000s. But now it's, you know, it's not quite not quite the case. There's and they've always been really, you know, like they've always been a bit out of the comics for sure. Well, at least it's the most popular group. So Spider-Man wouldn't necessarily be the competition. But Fantastic Four would be the competition, I guess. But X-Men is more popular and fantastic for. Not when Marvel started, right? Fantastic Four before X-Men. Not much before, like a year or but but enough that they would have had a time in the spotlight to be like the most popular group and then they become the most popular group in, you know, eras, right? Because I mean, Avengers must have been pretty popular at some point. Oh, just it depends on what time you talk about. Like, yeah, because the 90s was like the height of the popularity of like action. Right, yeah. Just I'm in 2019 and they've just been sitting on the bench now while we're getting freaking a White Vision series, a Wonder Man series, an Echo series, Agatha, Iron Heart, all that stuff. You know, part of the reason why this is probably happening though beyond like rights and everything else that comes with it is the fact that there's a bit more trepidation with creating X-Men than there is with fucking Harkness. Who cares? Like, pop that out. Yeah, go. But when they sit and they're like, how are we going to do X-Men? It's like, how are we going to implement that as the MCU? When should we? Should we do it now or later? Or should it be the results of some big event or should it just be something that's always happened? It probably is a nightmare to try and make it work when it's funny because they shouldn't be spending that much time on it considering they don't spend any time on making anything makes sense. But then again, it's just going to be bad anyway. What I'm trying to say is like, there's probably a reason why it takes a while to consider how to implement the X-Men. They've given us Hugh Jackman Wolverine as like a big, you know, mutant to go for not necessarily first, because isn't Miss Marvel supposed to be a mutant now or something? Yeah, I guess so. But that's the safest fucking way to begin implementing X-Men is to start with possibly the most popular film X-Men ever. Really brave way to do it would be to have the X-Men team be comprised of the original team and not Wolverine. So like the main character would be Cyclops instead of Wolverine. I don't think that would do that. Yeah, you got to think like an idiot, though, he's got to be got to be like it's just like Hugh Jackman's Wolverine. Yeah, that'll do it. That's the way that's where we start, of course. Of course. That's the easiest way to do it. Whereas the more interesting way would be if you have the original team that didn't have Wolverine in it. As we just said, if they fuck him up, it's going to have much more drastic results than fucking up, you know, Jeremy, the first mutant. Oh, yes. They just tried it with that guy. They do it and they screw it up. It'll be catastrophic. I mean, that's the thing X-Men and Fantastic Four are like the last things that they have left. Did they screw both of them up? Then I'll say this. And I think the sentiment is shared across a lot of the sort of spheres that we're in as well, that we're all assuming they're not going to fuck up Hugh Jackman Wolverine kind of. We're like, they probably won't fuck that up. Is Deadpool looks like Ryan Reynolds and Hugh Jackman are pretty involved in that. They're pretty they're pretty level headed with what works. Like they're not going to fuck that up, right? It's going to be a violent movie with some jokes, right? It's not going to be like a terribly written mess, right? I mean, it's you hope. But I guess the thing that's got working in this favor is that if it's Deadpool three bringing in a lot of stock and capital from like Ryan Reynolds, that is kind of unique compared to most Marvel productions where this is something that's being brought in where I think that's like their co-production like Ryan Reynolds is a producer on it. It's just that because the Deadpool films like existed beyond the MCU, there's a lot of other stuff that gets tied up in it like that. Yeah, because it's production companies part of it. Yeah, we'll say. And a lot of that stuff I just mentioned, some of that stuff is actually exciting. But again, with the current state of the MCU, they need to bring superstars in the game because this is what people want. It's not the problem at all. It's like a close. This is what the fans want and this is what people are going to show up for it. And at the end of the day, that's why Secret Wars is going to be what it's going to be. This is why it's going to be an absolute like nostalgia fest. That's a lot of people want to describe it because Marvel. Yeah, which is really bad when it's becoming more and more popular sentiment to just shit on that. Yeah, like that sucks. It's cynical. It's reflective of the kind of the world that we're in right now. It's already over. It's I mean, it's kind of funny, right? South Park saying everybody's already fucking tied in multiverse, which is true. Everybody's already getting pretty tired of it. So it's only been a couple of years and now you have to hope that people remain excited about it for several years when people already kind of view it as cynical by and large. No, no. Yes, no. Secret was the only way they're going to get secret wars to compete to a fraction of what Avengers Endgame made at the box office, which Avengers Endgame. No, it's not possible. No, no, no, no. Happening. It's just not happening. No way. No way. I don't even think there's a way to do that in the perfect environment. Like, I don't think there's anything that can be done. I think it's over. I think it's over. It's shit. It's over. There's a we could have it perfectly written with like combining all the storylines of everybody in phases four and five, bringing in characters that are really well sort of supported and meaningful. I just know there's a cap on this film now. It didn't used to be necessarily like with a lot of stuff. But I mean, comparing it to end games, how the fuck is anything going to make that kind of money again in the MCU? How are you actually going to make nearly three billion dollars? I don't know about that. The highest grossing movie of all time when it came out. So the only way they're going to get sick or to match those numbers or potentially even surpass it. No. Is by bringing back the characters that people are invested in. No, no, no, no, no. Stop. Quit. By the way, it's like you're up these ideas. These ideas exist over in the MCU fucking studio. There's people up there, executives, producers that say all of this probably the only way this is going to work, guys, if we bring in Robert Johnny Jr.'s Iron Man, the only way it's going to work is the only way we're going to get numbers like a game ever again. Anyway, then some other guys like, you know, it's not. He's like, shut the fuck up. It's the reality is they might have to just they might have to do the work. I don't think you can't do shortcuts anymore. Oh, yeah, dude, the big sad reality for them in that board room is that you like put it in briefcase of the table open up. There's just one sheet of paper that just says you've got to work work hard. That's it. Sorry, guys, we might have to work. There's no secret answer to this. You've just got to work real hard for real long. And that's it. And we haven't had enough time with all of these new characters that we've met to truly invest, to truly be in. Yeah, go. We're just going to have good time with a number of them. They just all suck. Worked well with M.O.M. Right. Being the I mean, if you if you had M.O.M. being pitched and then and I'm pretty sure this did happen. They were like, all right, tossing Professor Axe Charles David. The only way we're going to make the kind of money we need to make is if we have Professor Axe Charles David. Yes, yes, yes, get in there. Oh, he's fucking great. Patrick Stewart, especially off we can get him. Yeah, that's great. OK, next up, Reed Richards. Can we get him? It's like, oh, fancast. Yeah, that's going to be great. I don't know what the fucking conversation was to throw in like agent Carter's or I guess Captain Carter. Like, I don't know. I don't know if they thought like that's going to bring in the money, which even in the trailers was that like that was a complete surprise, right? Like at least intended. The the, you know, the Illuminati members, the only one that was in the trailer for sure was Professor Axe, right? Captain Carter. Wait, did they they showed in the trick show? Because we knew the cast before the film, but that was because of leaks, but in the trailers, I'm pretty sure they only show Professor Axe, I think. And Mordo, we would have known about. Yeah, but yeah, there would have been some fucking producer being like all of the members of the Illuminati. That's the only way that we're going to be able to get this film to the price tag that it will get to. And you know what, that that guy probably feels justified. Like, see, I was right. That's the reason. Invested in them. The way we were with Captain America, Tony Stark, Thor. No, to get invested in them, you have to write the stories. You need power. You can't just have them be there, man. Can't. Yeah, like the idea of you fast tracking through the investment process is just it's not. It's not. You're sorry. You have to make good stuff. You got to do it the old fashioned way. You have to make good stuff. And the O.G. Avengers, when it came time for Infinity War and Endgame. Again, everything I've said in today's video is coming from a place of love because you all know I love Marvel, I ride with the franchise to the die and even not this point in time where the issue may be in shambles. I'm still here for Kevin. Yeah, I see. I'm so glad you reminded the whole in shambles because it's like your video is not really in keeping with your title. No. I feel like you're lured us in with some more venom, but then it wasn't venom at all. It was anti venom. It was carnage or something. Shambles and put it all together, make something extraordinary, something that we're all one of the main to pick up the shambles. Well, that doesn't mean that's not even what they need to do. They need to just drop it and they need to like wipe the board clean and be like, guys, we need that needs to wipe the slate and burn it down as Senator Armstrong. Yeah, as they would, as they'd say, who was it was? Elrond, who said, swept salt from a table. No, that was Gilgallad. He said like salt from a table. No, it wasn't. It was the Elf Commander guy from the tear. Anyway, they need it's like a total is like reforming a religion. You have to go back to the basic tenets of how you do things and just restructure it. It has to be like from the ground up, who you hire, who you choose to make these projects, the entire process, the financial elements, like they've dug themselves a big hole here. They're certainly staring down the edge of a hole, a big gaping chasm. And they either you do it today or you do it next year. Might as well do it now when it hurts less. Cinematic Universe, the most successful studio in Hollywood history just absolutely changed the landscape of Hollywood itself. I love this universe so much, man, and I want to see it thrive. And I think it's important for us to voice and his main solution was bring back characters. Yeah, bring just just key. Make sure that. Oh yeah, make sure. Yeah. So it's not so yeah. So it's not like hollow, you know, like that. Our criticisms and concerns and bring this stuff to light so like that Marvel can make the necessary changes. And instead of us just sitting here, taking the same stuff over and over and over again and watching the franchise. We love so much. Just diminish over time. So with that being said, let me know what you guys thought of this variety. Yes. Comment down below, man. Let me know. I'm a section down below. Again, in the long run, the necessary changes will be made and Marvel will course. No, yeah. All right. So with that, make sure to like and subscribe. I love you guys 3000. It's amazing that his idea of course correcting is bring back Robert Downey, Jr. That's that's course correct. Make sure he's a variant. So well, let's finish this. Like I'll see you guys in the next video. Oh, wait, no, no. There's a subscribe here, but no like and subscribe. OK. So this is this got memed on on the internet, right? Because they were just like the fucking absolute state of Marvel fans as this was the image. Wow. Jeez. But it gets even better. Oh, well, he gets. No, it gets better. It gets better for us. The the next video he released, it was we were starting the stream and it was released like two hours ago. And I was like, no fucking way. So I'm going to pop her on and you guys can read the title. Y'all read the title of the video. Can you see? What it says, I'm sorry, Marvel. I'm sorry, Marvel. I'm sorry. I did fucking typing like a child. Oh, my God. What? Yes, it does mean what you think it means. It's not the other version. It's the I am apologizing to Marvel. That's what this video is. Wait, no. No, this isn't. I'm sorry, Marvel. I had to say something. It's I'm sorry, Marvel. I was wrong. Oh, my God. And yes, I believe this was uploaded within like a day or just over a day, something like that. That's since we last saw him. So let's see how his opinions have changed, shall we? OK, video. It's time to apologize. Oh, my God. Oh, you stupid. You got a quick signal. So a couple of days ago, Variety instead of to drop a massive article. You got a haircut. I just have Marvel detail. Oh, he got a big haircut. Problems and. Or is it just tied back? Oh, it might be tied back. If it is, it's going on behind the scenes at Marvel Studios. Then in the past 24 hours, Marwin said it a clap back a little bit. I won't lie. Marwin said it a clap back a little bit. They dropped a peak low key episode. Oh, now I need you to marinate in this. Everything he said in that previous video has been counted by the fact that he loved the newest Marvel thing. Why? Why? OK. By the way, we've seen the low key episode. It was shit. It was awful. There is the episode that made us decide that it's it's equally like it's sitting right next to low key season one. Which remember, guys, we're at a one out of ten on a one out of ten one out of ten and going anywhere. This is what my people are like. You're not a real person. You're paid to do this, right? It's like because it comes across so fucking soulless to be like I listen. Marvel's in shambles. Then it'd be like low key fucking season two episode five was fire. It was so good. And I could. But I feel like the likely explanation is just the consumer mindset. Yes. That's where I was going with that, is I'm not even sure that it would apply to him as a grifter or shell or paid whatever. I think he genuinely feels these things. So I don't know. It's fire. With low key episode five, which we're going to talk about in a second. Oh boy. And then this Friday morning, they decided to drop the first trailer for the Echo series, which let's be honest. Echo was cool and Hawkeye, but I don't know if her performance in Hawkeye and what that character did in that series warranted an entire show. So none of us really had that many expectations for the Echo series. Well, you were going to love it. And I blew a lot of us away, including myself. So to clarify, he's apologizing because of Loki's episode being so good and a trailer for Echo. And this has any bearing at all on a big article that was talking about a lot of fundamental issues with the way that Marvel goes about making their movies and television shows. You can argue with nothing to do with what he talked about as well. Neither of these account for his primary solution, which was to bring in new stars or rather bring in stars that are not there anymore. I'm sorry because I saw an episode I liked and you created a compelling advertisements. Yes, for a new television show. But it's actually unreal. I was just like, holy shit. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm in a little bit of a state of disbelief, honestly. And it's going to be the first TV mature Marvel project. Yeah. Oh, my God. This is going to pave the way for the future projectable. Oh, my God. It's going to be better because it's M.A. And there's a bit of blood. Oh, yeah, that means it's going to be some real mature. Like, oh, yeah, this is a big way. I like blood. Yeah, I find that so lame that like it's oh, it's right at us. So like, therefore, it must have some sort of inherent intrinsic quality. For the daredeals, the punishers, the blades, you know, it's going to pave the way for blade. How can you say that after everything we saw with that article? I would pave the way for blade because it's M.A. Fucking hell. Three is obviously going to be R rated, but echo is going to pave the way for darker and for the darker Netflix type of MCU content that we've been asking for. Man, it's I love how it starts. You know what made Daredevil really good? There was blood. That's what made it good. It was there was blood. It was. Yeah, that was why it was good. If only he knew because he clearly doesn't. The Marvel don't believe in echo whatsoever and that they did try to get it discontinued. Obviously, obviously, they're releasing all of the episodes straight away. They're releasing on Disney Plus and Hulu, presumably to get it to, like Maximum Eyes in some way, straightforward people. Probably. It's just they don't believe in it. They don't care about it. It won't be influencing anything going forward unless it has a remarkable engagement, which it won't. No, it's just echo. It wouldn't matter if it was 11 out of 10. It won't. No one cares about it. I'm sorry. Word of mouth will not be powerful enough to sell echo around the place. It's not going to happen. No way. No way. For a while. And I ain't gonna lie. Marvel clapping back with Loki episode five in that echo trailer. It's not a clap back. This is releasing another episode we're talking about. It was gonna come out anyway. It was gonna come out. Yeah, it was going to come out. That shit's been done for ages of all of the problems that are going on behind scenes at the end. It doesn't address any of the problem. No, it is not related to the problems. It is totally irrelevant. And it doesn't like that. Wait a minute. I just realized that means he made the previous video without episode five and he said that it was set in a bag. Do you remember what happened at the end of episode four? Can't go. Melted. When it melts him. Yes, that's right. That's all that I said. The reason why I said that is because the variety article said that the finale sets up Kang. Oh, right. The fun. Yeah, but the fucking episodes four and five don't I remember and because remember the variety article says that Marvel is fucked because of the way that that the Loki ends in terms of setting up Kang. There's not the VFX workers are still going through it over there. I'm Marvel Studios. Oh, and how do you feel about that? About the one with Kang and Tonker and moving forward. Yeah, that's pretty unethical. He's clarifying that all of the points the article is still valid, by the way. Yeah, because nothing about a trailer and one episode of television that was already done. No. Has any bearing on any of the things that were in that article to doom or recast Jonathan Majors. You know, Marvel, it said that Marvel's still discussing plans to bring back the original Avengers and revival. What do you mean it said nothing's changed? Was that same article? Yeah, I just thought about it like it's a new development. Oh, it's still being said one, that article that hasn't changed the credits table. We looked over the article that's still saying it for you. So I can't take it, which, you know, that can be open to interpretation of what that means. Either it could be multiverse variants that are going to be in secret or is which I'm cool with that. I feel like that was always the plan or it could be like that was always starting in Black Widow and undoing the sacrifices they made in Avengers Endgame. And the point is, is that Loki episode was fired. I'm sure the finale next week is going to be even more. I'm sure that and that echo trailer was fired as well. Yeah, but you think so just because those two things are fired doesn't mean that all of the So why are you apologizing? Apologizing to Marvel. Why are you sorry to Marvel studios based on these things? MCU has gone through through faces four and five and all the little hiccups and mistakes. And also I want to say why he's sorry. I want him to say why I'm sorry. Like, what did I do that warrants an apology? Well, apology should be plenty of video left. So yes, we do. And problems that the studio is currently facing just magically disappears and go away. You know what I'm saying? So when I said the MCU was in shambles. Yeah, there's still a lot going on behind the scenes because look over these. OK, this is getting confusing. And why like what? What is the value of your words? Well, what's going on? He said that he said it is true. It's more. I'm getting a little bit more frustrated. Now I'm starting to feel like I'm being deceived. Past few years, no one has said that Marvel hasn't come out with bangers here and there. No way home. Wakanda forever. No. Shung Chi. No. No, there's no way home was. Guardians of the Gods. Marvel has come out with their bangers. But there's been a lot of this video is just repeating what he said in the other one. And how many days thought what they separated? What is this kind of scene? Wakanda forever. What is it that you're seeing in that God awful movie? That shit to your film? What is it? Well, so EBSU was in shambles two days ago. I'm sorry, Marvel, seven hours ago. All right, OK, cool. You have a long time to think. I feel like time's getting wasted here. And I feel like I've been roped in with I'm sorry, Marvel. And I feel like it's where we're folding back on that. We're just going back to, you know, even with that said, doesn't change a thing. Like now I'm sorry. Is this is all this video is chasing views? Well, yeah, this is just I really liked Loki's season two, episode five. And I really liked Echo's trailer. I can't title it like that. If I say I'm sorry, Marvel, that's a little bit more interesting. And that'll get them eyeballs here. Consistency, project to project in terms of the quality, the level of writing, the level of direction by the filmmakers behind the level of direction. I don't know. I get annoyed when you just start saying like script. It's the level of the degree of the quality of the execution of the of the way that they kind of, you know, it's just so rambly. Now we don't really have no direction. It feels like we have to kind of like take every single project and almost like base our base our hype off that from the team, from the writers that are on board, the directors that are on board. Name them. Yeah, but also it's pretty normal to be interested in a creative project based on the creatives behind it. I still think people would say that Michael Waldron is writing Loki's season two. I still think people would say that. Oh, well, I mean, I don't think it even matters because I wasn't as in the guys writing it like that he was a staff writer on the first season anyway. It wouldn't matter because it's indicative of the fact that people have no idea what's going on. Oh, I get you. Well, I mean, the reality is that like 90, 95 percent of the people who go watch Marvel movies don't know any of the writers or writers. It feels like they're in skin suits pretending to be people who care about writing sometimes. It's like you don't lie. Especially with some of the interviews that they give, like to earnestly to I can't even believe that one would earnestly describe Janet storyline and Ant-Man and the lost quantamania as Michelle Pfeiffer's Unforgiven. That's like, I feel like gas line or anything. I was even talking about the writers themselves. It's one about people like Matt here, like the idea that he's not enjoying it. And he's like, the writing is just suffering and he is enjoying it. He's like, the writing's so much better. It's like, what are you just what is the difference between the writing? Could you like explain it to me in any way that's coherent and not based on meta arguments about we've heard him say one thing that to be fair is pretty valid. In terms of like, why is it bad to bring back Tony Stark after he sacrificed himself? Like it undermines the sacrifice. It's like, excellent. Good point. Wow, excellent. That's normal, but. No, I'll say it's called a relativity, I guess. That's incredible. I cannot believe it. Ford, we obviously know the team behind Loki is very competent at producing the peak. So guess what? Whoever's directing and writing Loki? I'm going to be like, whoever's directing Loki? Who could it be? If there's no way to find out who is that mystery man? How is it peak? Nobody knows what's going on in Loki season two right now. Tell me what the plot is. Nobody knows. It is like chat. It is fucking insane. The end of the episode, the whole universe is melting away into spaghetti. And then Loki says he can control it himself. He just says that. Loki can travel through time and space now because. Yeah, Loki basically gets God powers at the end of the episode for seemingly no reason at all. It's just like, OK. He was able to do this anyway was because when Sylvie kicked him through the door in episode and the finale of season one, that for whatever reason had him spread across time in a way that he gets pulled around like spaghetti. If it didn't work that way, if it didn't pan out that way, then there would have been nobody to save all of existence. All of existence would have melted away if it wasn't that way that it works in the TVA, where time doesn't work in past, present, and future, even though Loki jumps from past, present, and future in the TVA. It's nonsense. Also, obviously, when I say he's he's basically God, I don't mean. No, not like Norsof, like totally omniscient, completely in control of that kind of God. And guess what? That Marvel actually hired the directors of Loki to direct the majority of the episodes for. Yeah, no, I know. Oh, yes, the majority, not all of them because they're not scrapping everything. Wait, what's he about? They scrapped everything. They did for that series up to this point. And now they didn't. They didn't. Why does he keep saying that? Because it sounds better if he says it that way. They're starting with Refresh with new writers, new show runners. They actually hired the show runner. New show runner, but yes. The show runner from the publisher series from Netflix. And now he's going to be doing. He's saying this like you didn't say it in the video that you are currently building the sequel video to this. I just feel like he's wasting time. He's just repeating himself to make sure it's still a thing on YouTube minutes. Oh, yeah, I love it. Love it. Be the head show runner for the Daredevil Born Again series and the directors of Loki are directing the episodes, which was fire, bro. It was so fire. It was just fire, bro. So tell you why. No, he doesn't. He can't even we can make stuff up. And I think people can about like why Falcon and the soldier is good, but good luck with Loki. You can't even tell what happened to make up what was good about it for Daredevil. Born Again, you know, when Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3 came back on in May, that movie was so amazing. OK, top five MCU. Wow, because I mean, for anybody who doesn't know, we fucking eviscerated Guardians 3 is that it's pretty bad. It is one of our yearly heart takes. Guardians 3 is awful. Yeah, unfortunately, because we were really hoping for that one of the best that they've made recently. Yeah, the bar is so low. Yeah, still. But all of us watch that movie and knew that's all James Gunn. You know what I'm saying? That's all James Gunn. He wrote the movie. Unfortunately, yes. Directed it. The Guardians are his little babies. Like what I mean by that is that I wish it kind of wasn't because it means he's entirely on the hook for all the choices that he made. And I don't know. Like, yeah, my view of him as a writer is complicated at this point. I don't even know what to expect anymore. Yeah, you look excited for super bad legacy and DC reboot. It's like no idea. No, I don't know. You know, he's brought to life and he's directed three films. And now this was his storybook ending for these characters. So it's not even like the Guardians 3 was a product of the MCU and what Marvel is accustomed to making. It was just now it's all James Gunn and now he's off to direct Superman Legacy. So let's fucking hell. Well, there you go. Let's just get going. Let's wait and see what he cooks over there with Superman. The greatest cook. They're of all time. But look, when it comes to this consistency problem. Superman is favorite superhero. All right. I wish you the best with whatever James Gunn cooks. Yeah, you know, yeah. Well, whatever it is, you'll like it though. Probably. It doesn't even matter that there's no need to wish good luck. There is no disappointing, you know. Yeah, you're gonna love it no matter what. I mean, just within this year alone, we had Quantumania, then we got Guardians 3, then we got Secret Invasion, and then we got Loki. Like we're going back and forth. So let's. Not for us. Like, all right. Yeah, he's saying that went down, up, down, up, or whatever. It's been a nice consistent disappointment. Well, not disappointment, because like, well, Guardians was incredibly disappointed. I don't understand why he fucking thinks Loki's so good. What's the good of Loki? Tell me, please. What's good about it? What kind of conversations does he have, you know, with friends about like movies, you know? I don't know other than it saying it's fire over and over again. Let's just pray to our lucky stars. Pray to our lucky stars. The Marvels is going to be, you know, one of the best MCU movies. Why is this cropped? You've got to keep this to your life. You know what I'm saying? We got Loki. Flash frame too, I don't know what I'm saying. Awesome. Loki's carrying us. Loki right now is carrying the Multiverse Saga and the Multiverse. What? What does that even mean, the Multiverse Saga now? Like, it's just, it just works. It's just works. It's collapsing into itself like a black hole. He's getting crushed down. It's that black hole. I caught up to state, the last episode was the spaghettification of the entire Multiverse. Loki just says, nah, actually, I can control it all. Yeah. It's fire. See where Saga is, Loki's story. And let me say this right now, Marvel, if you're watching this video, let me tell you right now, bro. Let me tell you right now, bro. Kevin Feige, my bro, tell me, I'm going to tell you. Tell me. Tell you what's fire, bro. Into my ear. Inject it into my veins. I'm just speaking for myself because I don't know how the majority of people will feel about this. Yes, you do. Y'all, you know the comments, the comments. Yes, please, in the comments. The Multiverse Saga is Loki's story. What does that even mean? What does that mean? What? After how good... I thought it was Kang's story. It was on Kang's shoulders. Yeah. Loki's character and basically making him the chosen one. Oh, good. He's the chosen one because of something. They were going to kill him in Thor 2. They changed their mind, thank God. Yes. But then they changed their mind again. Again. Killed him and then they brought him out. It's so sad. He's the chosen one now. Loki, fucking Thor's brother is the MCU's chosen one. What the hell? The God of Stories. The God of Stories. What is happening? I am way more interested in seeing Loki be the leader of the troops. Seeing Loki be the one to come face to face and say, what's up to Kang when the time is... Say what's up? Fuck me. What's up, bro? This is fire. Right? Than any legacy character. OK. I know Tobi Maguire would probably somewhere to... Oh my God. It's so painful. He's imagining this showdown with Kang where we don't even know fucking anything about it. But he's just there. He's in the room all looking at his Kang. Oh, there's a door. It bursts open and who's there? But Loki, because he's the chosen one at the MCU. And he comes all this is going to be a great showdown. But I want everyone to know we could take him out and put Tobi Maguire there maybe. That could also work. I just want to make sure that we put that on. Tobi Maguire. It's just... He's trying to destroy Maguire. He's like, he's like Kevin Feige down. He's like, bro, I got some fire for you. Tobi Maguire versus Kang, OK? No, that's fine. You can have that for free. I'm going to let you have that. Oh, my brains. Take it. And I'm super hyped to see more of Tobi. I'm super hyped to see more of you, Jackman and all that good stuff. But Loki's got to be in the mix. You know what I'm saying? Loki cannot be sidelined for a legacy character. No, no, I think I know what you're saying. This entire movie. You can get it. You like Loki. He's being built on the shoulders of him and his story. Like, Tobi coming face to face with Kang would be probably... Stop. Please stop. What are we doing? Just, you don't have to wait your fan fiction It's just it's the peak of this shit. There's nothing. What the fuck connects Sam Raeby's Spider-Man to Kang? What if Tobi Maguire fought Darth Vader and then they went into it? This is what I mean with steps away. The galaxy and they took him to Atlantis and then Indiana Jones came out and then set Rogan and then spun around and all stuff. What interaction and superhero film history. I mean, what is Tobi's Peter Parker? We're going to see the Kang, you know what I'm saying? It's inevitable. We are going to see it happen probably in Secret Wars or something like that. It is inevitable. We're probably more likely than not. There is at least 81% Kang. It's just so fire, man. All of it is so fire. Oh, just want it to end. I want 51% chance to see Tobi Maguire and Kang talking. That's the thing. Just give up. But I'm just saying, Loki has to be the ringleader. He has to be one of the main members in the mix because what Marvel has done with season one and now with season two. Such as absolutely incredible. Such as please an example of what you're referring to. Let us know. A shout out to Natalie Holt. My God, I love when MCU projects are. OK, fucking copyright cover up. What are we doing here? Yeah, yeah, yeah, so damn well. And she's absolutely cooking on the violin or just OK. So soundtrack is good. What else? Which it is. What else we got? Composer room. In the composer room. The composer room, you know, where they keep the composers, the composer room. It's like it's adjacent to the director room. It's, you know, it's one of the lower levels. To make them one of the most fire scores. Stop using that word. You've ruined it. What's he going to say ever in anything ever? What's he going to say? Marvel project ever. Now let's talk. Sure. Yeah, I'd grant them that. It's I really like the music in Loki. Yeah, it's good. It's up there. Yeah, about Echo real quick. Because Marvel. OK, I wasn't familiar with the game, bro. You say I was familiar with the game. I had zero expectations when it came to the Echo series. Again, the way it talks about like Marvel is if they're his buddy, you know. Hey, Marvel, you know, I didn't know what you were cooking, Marvel, my friend, you know, my buddy, my pal. But I don't know if that warranted an entire series about her. No, is the answer to that question. Obviously this was this was a project that was greatly at an error that doesn't exist anymore, especially due to the fact that, you know, Daredevil is going to be in the series. Kingpin is obviously going to play a shoe drill in this series. And this series will set up the Daredevil series. But in my head, I really doubt it has any relevance or bearing on it at all. You have to make something in between. But no, my mind has completely 100 percent taken a 180 turn. And this won't this is the way the marketing was effective. Yeah, well, the marketing strategy is why it'll be interesting for us to check out the Echo trailer soon, because like it's the hype, the sheer hype I found out yesterday that one of the writers from Better Call Saul is one of the head writers for the Echo series. Better Call Peek, Better Call Peek. The fuck. It's fire, bro. Yes, that's what he means. It's fire, it's peak. It's five. It's five. I got the shoulders on Echo. They put it into the shoulders of the stars on Echo's fire. The shoulder room where they keep their shoulders. The peak of the shoulders is absolute fire in the composer's room. Now Echo is going to be peak. Let's hope so. Let's hope so. Because, guys, another thing, too, is that even though the Echo trailer was great and this is going to be the first TV mature Marvel series, which we've been asking for for a while now. I don't understand why they didn't do this with Moon Knight. Why was Moon Knight not TV mature? Why was Moon Knight not good is the question. Yeah, it was so incredibly shit. That was the problem. Cut to the chase, my good man. Knight, not like this, where you have literally the opening of the trailers. Kingpin beating a little ice cream truck guy. A little ice cream truck guy. Oh, OK. So is that what? It's peak when he Kingpin beats up the little ice cream man. It's fucking fire. Little ice cream man guy. Little ice cream man guy. Fuck the ice cream back there. There's your thumbnail. And that right there in that trailer, guys. Yeah, you can already see the difference between Kingpin in this series and the Kingpin we got in Hawkeye. OK, Kingpin right here. All right, that's Marvel's back. And you know what? Wow, even from a trailer, we're in. We're back so back. I'd be so curious to ask him, what's your favorite scene in Daredevil that's not a fight scene? I would be so curious to hear what his answer is. I feel like he would at least be able to label the conversation with Daredevil and Punisher, right? Everyone does. Oh, I'm excluding that. You don't get to. Yeah, they don't get to use that. Once once you move that off the list, please tell me your favorite scene from Daredevil that is a fight scene or that doesn't have Punisher in it. And I'd be so curious if he could give an answer because he probably thinks it's like one of the best shows ever made. But like, he probably couldn't give you any detailed explanation why. Well, you'd still be able to tell you it's fire. That's worth something. Right. It is fire. It's peak. I wonder, I'd be so curious. It's like, do you have any perspective on the conversation that Matt has with the pastor about like the nature of evil and the existence of evil and whether or not they believe in the devil? And if they had the power to stop him, would they? And what would that cost him? I'd be so curious to be like, now just feel free. Just just just, you know, like the consciousness, that flow of consciousness. Just give me your thoughts on that. I feel like I wouldn't get anything because it's it's it's like the nature of what's here. Oh, it's fire. You know, this this show is fire, man. Blue, my mind. It was crazy. That's fire, you know, and it's leading up. And then when Toby McGuire shows up, you know, and he faces down. That's going to be, you know, let him cook. You know, I was wrong about that. That's the nature of a snow cap. No cap for real. Oh, it would suck if you were Toby McGuire and ever once you in stuff to just be you there in the Spider Man suit. Just you just need you there. You're like, do what? Say what? Why am I there? It's like just be there. Just being there for us to know that you're there. One of the factoids we read was that his request was that they don't like, you know, speculate usually or detail his his life between now and Spider Man 3 that they leave that as vague as they can. But yeah, why do you think he doesn't want any of it damaged? I don't even touch. Leave it the fuck alone. That's right. As much as as great as this trailer was, one of one of the my main primary thoughts was, bro, if they keep this same tone for Daredevil born again, bro, they keep this sick. Well, it'll be so good. I can see a universe where John Bertholdt comes back as a punisher and they do injustice. What the fuck is going on? I was going to say, it's so funny that the clownified the MCU so hard that if they go with one serious project, everyone's like back on board. Like, now it's good. Get out of his chance. Oh, yeah. Fuck it. This is so big, bro. The fucking fire. You know what I'm saying? Now I see that. Now I see that now that's open to possibility. Before I was like, bro, they're bringing back John Bertholdt's punisher, but he's going to be watered down for sure. Not. Yes. Yes. Yes. I'm not, you know, I'd be willing to fucking bet on that. Like, it's so easy in terms of just he's not you really think he's going to be anything near what you got in Daredevil. And I don't know. Punisher. No, why do you think they're going to do a scene where Punisher drags a man's face down broken glass like that's never going to happen. Or just brutally fucking kills like 20 people. That's not happening. Yeah, there's no way. Not anymore. I mean, guys, that one shot of literally that do getting his brains blown out in the hole. Whoa, I got shot in the neck. This is what I mean. It's so clownified that anything serious automatically means quality. You've been trained to think this almost. It's so set. It's like being fed nothing but shit. And then they throw you a McDonald's fry and you're like, Oh, my God, this is fucking big, bro. This is fire. This is fucking McDonald's fry. It's like, I don't even know anything that's better than this in the trailer. And then the other dude, that was just literally he was dead. But like his eyes were rolled back and he had blood all over. He was dead, but his eyes were rolled back and he had blood. Oh, he was like dead. Sometimes you don't want to have a great insight to how the people who love this stuff think it's like he was dead. They was blood. It's like, OK. No, this isn't thinking. This is like how a plant react to sunlight. You know, yeah, sunlight. Delicious. It's serious. Stone over here. Yo, this is big bro light. Yum, dude, this is so great every sun is back. Yo, it was dark, but yo, the sun is back. We're back. We are back. But yeah, when the sun goes down, he's like, this is a shambles. The sun is in shambles. It comes back up. Oh, my God, peak sun. This corner of the MCU should be TV mature because it's so grounded because these characters you said you do nothing about Echo that you're like, she should be grounded. You're like, OK. Yeah, like I bet he doesn't even know who Echo is, like the character assumption is no story. No, I don't think so. Just read comics. Who knows. You can't read. You know, it's described that Echo was actually read the article rags. He someone dictated it to them and they read it aloud. And she does like really questionable things, which I'm super interested in seeing that that makes, you know, that she's questionable things. So much more. This has got him back in his character does questionable things in this blood. But that's like all of the characters that they're like, oh, yeah, you know, one. That's everyone. Yeah, Wanda did plenty of that in M.O.M. And there was blood. All do questionable things, but they don't recognize that they're questionable or even just obviously well, to be fair, if the music tells them, it's OK that it's OK that comes directly from the composer room. Yo, fire. That's right. Makes a character like so much more complex, not the fact that she's not all good and she's not all bad. She has her own agenda. She's normal, right? If she's presentable and she's more bad than good, presumably. Can't even base this on source, because as far as I'm aware, even the creator of the show is said that comic echo sucks and that she wants. Yeah, they said that her powers were lame and her powers sounded like I would toss master powers, which are not lame. No, I'm very cool about the character that you're adapting. And she's coming after them and anyone that stands in her way, she's going to run through. So since the events of that variety are dropping, she's determined. Marvel has clapped back, but we need to keep the streak alive because, again, consistency is we need to keep the streak alive. The streak of a trailer and an episode of a craft show. The streak day. Can I keep the streak alive, guys? It's been a day. This is what we want as fans. We don't want to go from Quantamania to Guardians 3 to Secret Invasion to Loki. No, we want to wait. I mean, if the trend plays out, as you pointed out, then Marvel's will probably be bad and then Echo will be good, right? So nothing has changed. So there's no need for an apology. It's interesting that he's like we've got that sort of that up down thing, like this one's good, this one's bad, this one's good, this one's bad. I just want to ask him, what made Secret Invasion bad? But why is Loki good? And don't say visual effects. Well, that's it. You have to actually talk about the story, something writing related. He did explain it. Loki is kind of the chosen one of the MCU. He's got the whole multi-verse rest on his shoulders. The God of stories. Yeah. Well, I thought Kang was the one of whom. No, that's the bad guy, Rags. Gosh, pay attention to his antagonist. OK, he and Loki are going to have a face off and it's going to be fucking fire. He's going to he's going to take him out. He's going to be in the mix. He'll be in the mix, at least. We told him a glass, by the way. We used to make that joke like all the time. I still make it to this day on like real BBC episodes, just throw him in because it's always funny. And then I actually like see it genuinely being said, like, bring in a glass, by the way, to fight Kang. It's like, OK. Just do it. Whatever, whatever. As long as everyone gets paid, just whatever. Peak to peak to peak. Take your time. Slow it down. We've heard many different times. Fuck, all of his binoculars. It sucks, doesn't it? There's no words. It's all peak fire. Yeah. And it'll change with the culture that changes that those words will become old and new ones will be given to him. Any different times that marble has just pumped the brakes and the amount of projects that they've started to develop, the amount of projects that they're making. And now they're trying to what would they haven't know? Like they haven't slowed down. There still means to be like, what, five projects coming out next year? There's slowing down. We're going to see in, what, like 2025 or something. It's going to take some time for it to manifest. I take it slow and prioritize quality over quantity. Now we're not doing that. They're not doing that. Nothing's changed. Why is he talking about it like anything's changed? Nothing has changed. What, one episode of television and a trailer. That's right. It's crazy because this whole kind of this this evap episode is about how this is like a borderline. We'll see change a while from now. But like he said, like, no, we got it already. It's like, no, not even fucking close. I don't even think it'd be possible right now. Like, even if Loki were amazing in the echo trailer, we're truly an 11 out of 10 trailer. It's still be like, no, no. I know what a trailer's for. I know what the trailer's job is to do. Remember the trailer for Age of Ultron? Remember that one? Last Jedi. Iron Man three trailer. A lot of us are very excited for echo dropping in January. No, a lot of us. No, that's to like 12 people. I think that's going to be a perfect series to just binge all the way through in one day. And then we'll talk about what it is. Yeah, but if it was released episode by episode, you'd say it's a great thing to take on week by week and discuss with everybody. Like whatever it is, it is good because of that. I didn't realize you could interpret that positively. I believe dropping echo all at once when they've never done that with any of their other Marvel shows is that it's it's it's being abandoned. It said something. They're trying to get it out one and done as quickly as possible, not occupying too much time. Yeah, and honestly, I think they're trying to underplay and circumvent the obvious fucking disaster it's going to be. If we can get it all out and it's done, people can't talk week by week about how much it's not being watched. Yeah, it won't drag it out. Yeah, it'll be talked about how much it's not watched, but hopefully it'll be quicker. You know, you'll get we get over it faster. As was the the the fucking comment, like we need to ice skate fast over the marvels or something like there was some comment that was like, we need to get through it fast, get over it fast, get it out, get moving, move to the next thing. What's next? But we got what a bad fucking like month the model are about to have. Yeah, Loki, that's going to finish up next week. We all know that finale is going to be peak. I mean, actually, let me not say that. I know it. I don't want to jinx us, but we trust in the team behind Loki to the no, we do don't. But I feel like it says a lot, right? Doesn't it the kind of words that you use about like the way that your mind is working? Like that if so much of it is like, oh, a peak fire, let him cook and shit like that, that it's just indicative of modes of thinking that are more commonly at play. When I use a lot of words like that in my mind, I know that they're like meme phrases. They're meme words that you say like on the internet. I don't say these things when I'm talking to human beings in real life. When we say it's jover, that's a joke. It's a joke. Yeah, it's yeah. It's the way it would be. It would be the same as if I said something was fire. I'm using it because I think it's cringy or funny. Or for instance, coke or bad take or something. Yeah, they're not used to actually translate ideas I'm having to other people. I'm more so using them as part of it. Because it seems like it a fucking hell. It's like 10% of his whole vocabulary is those two words, peak and fire. I don't know why he doesn't even use a greater variety of internet meme words. It's always fire and cook, let him cook. And what's the other one he's been using? Peak fire. Oh, yeah, peak fire, cook while rubbing his hands. That's like bro, don't get bro. But that one goes back a long time. Bro's OK, you can have bro. You're allowed to have bro and man. I will say, though, there is an amount you can use any one word that you ruin it like bro. I'm fine with using it and dude. But like if you if you put them in fucking every sentence and sometimes twice, that's when it gets a bit, you know? Yeah, that good. For a great finale and send us off into the next direction. The marbles. Well, I mean, give me something good, bro. Give me something good. Do you think it's going to be good? He hasn't he hasn't decided yet. He's he hasn't decided what he's going to say. Well, I think what we're seeing is he's reading his room regressed in the in a matter of hours back in like he for a moment was see it like, wait, things aren't so great. No, no, it's fine. Everything's great. Oh, oh, yeah, we are back. I think it really is. I really upload that video. It's so fascinating. He's reading the room. He's not sure yet what what stands to take on the marbles. Like he's sort of sitting back and waiting to see whether or not it gets received well, considered a good movie. Obviously, how much money it makes is probably influential and whether or not he considers it good or bad. Well, it's it's I don't know. I find I find those aspects fascinating, like the kind of games that these people play. It's figuring out what strategies to use, you know, for like the the direction they want to take. Like their commentary on on the state of Marvel or D.C. or any of those things. I find it so interesting. I books if the marbles is better than the first Captain Marvel, that's a win. But yeah, because it's that's an acceptable stance that Captain Marvel is boring and not very interesting. Well, it's one of the safest things you've ever say, because you're not even tied down to saying Captain Marvel's bad. You're saying you want it to be better, better than boring, boring. Boring is safer than bad for Captain Marvel. That's the safe one. It's boring. It's lame. It wasn't really interesting. You know, for the first female lead superhero Marvel movie, like it wasn't that interesting or something like that. Give me a great movie. Come on. I believe in you, bro. I believe in the cost. I believe in the team behind the why. Do you like her other films? Maybe he does. What's her name? Name, name one of them. What's her name? The Navy just said. What's her name? Yeah. Marvel's, you know, I'm a huge Monica and both fans. So I hope to see her shine in this film. OK. Let's keep the streak alive, bro. Not a streak, man. We don't even know once the Marvel's drops, we don't even know when the next Marvel movie is coming out. Because obviously, yeah, we do. The Deadpool three is still slated for May. I guess the foregone. It would just get moved to the next slot. Like it'll take Captain America slot. What do you mean? You don't want the next. It's not like I find it hilarious. The idea of fuck, man, a few months without Marvel movies. It's it's worse than a few months, something else. A few months without knowing when I can expect the next things. Like, Kevin, how could you do this to me? Kevin, please. Kevin, how could you do this? Not the broadest end of the industry. It strikes. So it's just Kevin is tossing buckets of water onto this flaming disaster. You're trying to put it on that. And then he said they're like, what's the next thing, Kevin? Kevin, please, Kevin, Kevin, Kevin. He's like, what? What is this company from me? What is it? Obviously, a ton of stuff has been. Yeah, I should have said he's throwing buckets of fucking petrol onto the fire. Why isn't this working? It's like that. We'll run out of things to burn. It's like Tucker and Dale faces Eve. It's a bit on fire that you throw the thing like, oh, shit. It's been delayed with the writer strike with the current actor strike go actors. I hope they get what they deserve. But but don't delay. Don't delay my enjoyment too much. You're a long guy. I don't want this to carry over into the next year. That would be untenable. But we would after the Marbles comes out, we don't even know we don't even know when the next Marvel movie is coming up. Yes, we do. We're going to be. I mean, it's all planned out in America. It's dead. Why do I know this and you don't? Isn't this like the only thing that you talk about? Well, maybe he is talking about the fact that we don't know in a sense that it's more than likely going to be delayed because of everything that's going on. I mean, isn't it just pretty logical that it's just going to take the next slot? If Deadpool 3 gets the light, it would just come out when Captain America was meant to come out. And then Captain America gets what's going on. We don't know. We only can speculate. Oh, yeah. OK. Yeah, one of those two, probably. So well, definitely. Suavecito. Man, does that does that like freak you out? That's why you need to calm yourself down. Is there any? What was the apology part exactly? I don't know what the apology part is. Slow and steady. Let's take it slow. Let's get a streak going and let's just make it a never end. Let's take it slow. But I'm really freaked out about how long there's no release date. I'm dying to take it slow. Yeah, streak of just straight banger after banger after banger. So look, why would banger off banger is one episode of a TV show after admitted like that he would even admit bad television show of secret invasion. The Marvel's pending. You don't actually know yet and a trailer for Echo for again, a show pending. You don't even know if the streak is one TV show. Yep. Look, you know, I'm really happy. I'm waiting that Marvel has clapped back and Marvel's has a good stuff. There was an article that came out a couple of days ago and then they released an episode of television that you like and that's them clapping back. There's the thing. I barely count like an episode of TV show being good as evidence of not even because clapped back was a very specific meaning from what I remember. But like, if we're just going to say they are doing better since the article, it's like, how can you count a trailer? That's ridiculous. That's absurd. It's marketing. I barely want to count the episode. It's a commercial. Plus, as fans, we want this stuff to be great, but we also want it to be consistently great and just because we got a great. That I mean, that would be included in the we want it to be great, wouldn't it? We want to like how I like how he just said that he wants the streak to continue and he's about to admit that just because you got one episode of Loki, you like that doesn't mean anything. How do you do this? Yeah, but we've got a trailer to come on. Well, one a streak is one. One is a streak, right? Yeah, I feel like a streak by definition has to be like more than it feels like three at least right to isn't enough. Why do you hate Disney so much? What's going on? Can't you not see peak? Well, hey, I mean, you know, it's it's everybody's really excited for Snow White, right? You're not being very far right now. That's going to be peak fire, cinematic, excellent. Wait, no, peak fire, cinematic peak. Based, no cap. Based. Yeah, based, not cocked. You'd think you think he would have used based at some point, but no. No, maybe maybe based as out of out of date. Maybe that's out of style. Maybe that's not in right now. Maybe he's like a Pokemon and he only knows four moves. And that's just like he doesn't know he's. He cook or peak cook. A streak, I don't know. Oh, bro. That's the that's the evolution music. Or is that the victory? It's been a while since I've played Pokemon. That's the victory music. Yeah, that's the victory one, isn't it? But it also plays when you get the evolution, doesn't it? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, there we go. Yeah, one. That's just it here. Let's just sit here and hum. That shit was so fine. It was just absolutely high fire. That was peak. Yeah. Charizard. Oh, man, right, right. Oh, my God. Oh, now that was fired. That was fired. That was ember. That was that was great. So something because guess what? The trailers for secret innovation were pretty damn fire and they gave off a similar vibe. But now with an actual one. Yeah, but yeah, but the rating for me, the rating. There you go. Oh, yes, that's right. This one's TV, M.A. In an actual TV mature rating. How many times can you be punched in the face before you're like, wait a minute. That makes me a lot more confident that the series has a lot of higher ceiling and will reach that potential compared to. Yeah, because whether or not blood is allowed or sex is allowed or drug use is allowed. That's what determines quality. That's a bizarre perspective to have. It's almost like, well, no, anything Pixar makes can never reach that height because, you know, they're making they're making films that need to have a rating that's acceptable for children. Well, when I found out, when I found out Wally, too, was rated I was like, oh, finally, the ceiling has been lifted. That's right. The ceiling has been lifted. Now now Pixar can reach the heights of Marvel Studios. Yes. And so, yeah, it opens with a big splatter of blood and guts onto Wally. Apparently, there's good context for it. Oh, my gosh. So again, just because we've got a Loki episode five and a great echo trailer doesn't I like how all of this just completely undermines your entire point. These admissions. Well, so he makes his main points. I agree with all of the article, things are bad. And to fix it, we need to bring back old stars. OK, now, since then, we've had a good episode of Loki in a trailer. I like now that makes me at the point where I need to say sorry. But I also want to make sure you understand everything in the article is still true and a good episode and a good trailer doesn't really mean anything. But seriously, keep the streak going of this episode and trailer. The Marvels, come on. I believe in you. We should ignore the current problems going on with the rest of the MCU. All the problems behind the scenes and stuff like that. Am I confident that Kevin Feige and the team will cook and bring the MCU back to its glory? Come on, 1,000 percent. I'm very confident. Well, man, so then you've got nothing to worry about. You don't even need to make your videos. Yeah, you've got. He's cooking up for you. This all needs to provide your perspective. Like you said, oh, I need to offer constructive criticism so they can figure it out. If you believe 1,000 percent and times the complete amount that you know that you can believe in someone that they'll fix the problems. Why even bitch? Just keep it to yourself. You know, just calm down and be patient and wait for them to fix everything all on their own. I'm very confident in that because I wonder if we could name the team. There's Kevin Feige. Could you get any other producers? Any of the other producers who work on these things? Ronald Downey. Probably not. Oh, no, no, no. That's not Ronald Downey, Joe Hanson. Yeah, no, that's not a lot. The group is because, you know, we've been on this journey as fans for over over 15 years now. And what a damn journey, bro. I'm going to be riding with them to the day I die. So I can be a little dramatic. Like why though? Again, guys, the MCU, I just hope they can continue to streak, keep the streak alive. That's all we're doing. Stop it. Loki Echo Marvel. It's like it's like like if you were addicted to a drug, right, and you went to rehab and you met someone there and you went through the program and you got off the drug and every once in a while you walk by the rehab center and you look in the window and you still see someone who's addicted and they're still going through it. That's what it's kind of like. We got off of it. You know, we were we were like, yeah, Marvel was pretty neat. That's great. And then it started turning to shit and sort of like, oh, OK, I mean, we don't really like it anymore. OK, whatever. And then you look in and see that he's still on it. He's still riding the high and he's still going through the motions. And it's the most amazing. Rocking back and forth in that straight. Rocking back and forth. That echo trailer, man. It's it's TVMA. It's called Blood. It's going to be good. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. Sorry, straight going. Even though I just admitted that there is no straight. I'm so sorry, Marvel. Take me back. Well, let's fucking go. So look, I'd like to take the chance to apologize to absolutely nobody for saying that the MC was in shambles. Oh, I guess what? A good episode and a good echo trailer shouldn't take away from the greater problems that the man. You did you really do this because you needed to get over 10 minutes to get like mid-roll ads. I think a minute. Well, it's that. It's also paying people into seeing this whole video and then also to capitalize on, I guess, you would have gone viral temporarily on Twitter with the people. I think of what people pointing out that he's just completely like backflipping quadruple flipping on. Well, yeah, we've been putting this right at the end. Most people don't even get to these parts of the videos. No, this is all very strategic. MCU and Marvel Studios as a whole has been facing for the past few years and is still currently facing moving forward. But I will say I am sorry, Marvel, for doubting you on echo. Oh, that trailer was absolutely fantastic and it completely blew away any expectations that I had for this. The product has to be good. The commercial was great. Yeah. Series. I love the series. I love the tone. I love that you guys went with the TV mature rating and finally decided. Yeah, you said that already. I get it. Yeah, I said the sixth time you said it. Yes. If the series is fire in terms of a writing standpoint action, I'm sure it will be a fire show. That TV mature rating will only elevate what you're trying to do moving forward in this corner of the MCU. We've been over that. That's fucking dumb ass logic, but fine. So sorry for that. And you guys on echo, but I'm happy to be wrong. Now you're all fucking hell. All right. So we don't want to watch this channel. No, I can tell you we're not. We're not watching anymore of this, but we are going to see an image that I think encapsulates his his his enjoyment of media. I think anyway. I'm reading it in his voice, too. It's so easy. Bros, we are back. It is so over, Bros, so back. It's over, Bros. It's over. We're back. Oh, wait, so wait, are we watching this echo trailer or? I think that is next. Yes. How much more of this adventure do we have left? Still a little bit more. OK, all right. I'm getting tired. I'm sorry on you, a long man rags. Apologize to me and Marvel. Never those fuckers. All right, yes, let's check out the echo trailer that we've been told this is absolute fire and peak. So let's I guess I'll put on the copyright protection because I mean, it'll only help, right? OK, bear in mind, I've not seen this yet. Neither is ragged. I don't think here we go. And I haven't seen Hawkeye, so I don't know. See everything that you are. Wait, why is. I know the subtitles because he got it from the wrong place. Have I gone there from the wrong channel? What says? Is that like the hospital? So it's Native American, so is that like some kind of? All right, I'm American. I was born here. I don't speak Choctaw. I'll speak American. I always have. Oh, no, the ice cream man. The ice cream man. Oh, why did you do that to the ice cream man? Because the ice cream man said, I don't know what you're saying when he was speaking out on a note. Well, and I don't I don't know that I guess because he kind of did it in a bit of a derogatory or condescending way. That's enough for Kingpin, I guess. Oh, my goodness. Kill the ice cream man. Oh, why are you doing this to me? Do you want ice cream? This is for ice cream. Oh, I just want to sell ice cream. Blood blood. Don't be afraid. I can't hear you. Well, she probably read lips, I guess, right? Oh, can you push people through the walls like that? Well, yes. I don't know if you do know. What is her power set? I I'm I'm really not familiar with this character at all. I'm pretty sure I think it is like the Taskmaster powers. Oh, but like in the I mean, in this. Oh, I don't know. I didn't I only watched the first episode of Hawkeye and then I saw what's pain in you. You so much rage that you kept contained it. All right. So we're two thirds in. I know. Oh, my God. Oh, I wait for the thing to happen. All right. Honest is not what it's going to say. Yeah, yeah, there it is. Well, I guess that's better than when they said a hero or whatever in Captain Marvel. I was pretty cringe. Um, but yeah, I don't know. I just yeah, this is a trailer. Oh, my God. Oh, dog. Yeah, the dog. Oh, that guy. Yeah. Oh, you can make a trailer like this for Secret Invasion. You could have. Yeah. Well, they did. They did like that trial. I don't remember the Trail of the Secret Invasion. But yeah, I mean, no one does. No one remembers Secret Invasion. Are the same. OK, so. Oh, because he was shot in the face. Why does it look like it's CGI? Because so that's oh, my God, that's so stupid. Like so he was he was actually actually shot in the head, but it's it's only taken out his eye when he survived. Yes, it's like a fucking Sicario, too. Took his eye. Who's the monster? OK, yeah, that OK. That's it. That's it. Yeah, that's it. It's a commercial for a product. That's for sure. It's fire is what it is. Yeah, like I don't know why that would inspire any greater or lesser confidence. So it just doesn't really mean anything. If I'm going to be one thousand billion percent honest, we've just seen that without anything we have else we've seen today. I would have been like, hmm, a bit more violent. Yeah, that if you guys were like beating what? I'd be like, meaning nothing, meaning nothing. It's just it's just more violent. Just describing what I'm saying. It seems violent. If for the guide that we just watched, if it wasn't called Marvel Studios Echo, if it was called Echo, would this be a particularly interesting thing to him? If it wasn't associated with Marvel, you know, like, would he watch it if it was just a trailer for like Echo on FX or something? Like, would that, you know, must a much interest? I'm more likely to watch it if it isn't Disney, because. Oh, dude, if that wasn't connected to the empty whatsoever, I'd be like, that sure looks like it could be OK. It could be something. But the fact that it is a Marvel figure is like, oh, well, and I know that the Marvel creators don't believe in the show. They want it gone. Well, I mean, the fact that they're releasing every single episode, they're releasing on more than one streaming platform. Yeah, they're releasing in January, which is kind of like a that's very much like a month where there's not as much stuff happening. Now, so with with that, we've covered a lot of that that angle on it's kind of you can kind of see how I've done this now, because I want to I want to switch gears, but kind of do a similar thing. We're over to over to Star Wars. Oh, boy, we have Star Wars, a channel that's created a video called I'm done here in all caps. Disney is destroying Star Wars. What a joke. You're not done. You're not done. Now, this was made by Star Wars theory. You're not done. You're done with stars next week. Done with Disney. They're destroying it, which feels a lot more aggressive. It was amazing. What are you talking about? So you fucking gawked and came all over. We did. Asoca was we've done the MCU one. Let's see what it looks like for someone who's been, let's be honest, gobbling up a lot of what they've been given, but now said it's enough is enough. The the guy we just covered, it was mainly him reading all of the article stuff wasn't even really his own opinions, because he said most stuff is still pretty good and all that. But what was Star Wars theory going to say? What's his perspective on what Disney have done wrong? You guys excited? I'm so excited. Let's peer into the other world. See how it works over there. You wonder why Star Wars is in. Oh, wait, this is like a. He does he does like a what's to come at the beginning. I want to skip that. Yeah, there you go. If you would join us, here we go. Twelve and a half minutes, the Kenobi show, you know, is a show that we had been waiting for, arguably. You know what? Screw arguably is the most important show that Star Wars could ever have released after George sold it to Disney. I can't it just never should have happened. It's the most important show they could ever release. Maybe because they had the they had we had both ends of it. We had episode three, we had episode four. It was totally unnecessary. What would the most important show they could release be? The most important show that Disney Star Wars could release. Yeah. I don't even know. Probably I don't probably the show about Salacious Crumb. Well, it would be Luke Crowley, right? I walk a show. Yeah, it would have to be because if you say we're releasing one for for Obi-Wan and fucking Vader, it would be important to fans, of course. But it's still it should be like, what are you? Where is it going to be gas in between three and four? That's what everybody would assume. And then all maybe a global show, you know, it's not impossible. I think it's just that to do Luke pretending for a second, the sequels didn't exist to be like, holy shit, where does Luke go next? Which to me, I think would be way more important. But I guess, yeah, what happens next? You know, episode seven, that isn't shit. We got Darth Vader and Obi-Wan Kenobi in between Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope. We got Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi, as well as Luke Skywalker and Leia, literally the main characters of Star Wars, the most important part, time, everything. And what kind of a budget does it get? It gets not even less than Andor, which I think had like 130 million or 110 million. It's a lot of money. Maybe more than that. What was the budget for Andor? Hold on here, where I can get ahead of myself. Why the budgets just don't equal better. You guys are going to set you. Yeah, and Andor looked fucking incredible and it was written really well. Well, yes, as you can see, we're already inching toward like, wait, but it doesn't matter if Kenobi had a lower budget than Andor. Or that's not its problem. It's definitely not its problem. Such a more real side of me as we push into 2024 because I'm fed up. I'm really tired, really fed up. People that don't like me already don't like me. People that love me already love me and I'm here for you guys. Oh, we're the other people. We don't really feel a huge amount about you. We're willing to give you all. Yeah, we're we're the unicorns. So give us what you got. We're going to judge what you say by what you say. I'm not even going to go with the level. Hey, yes, and I'm not here for anyone else. Oh, well, at the end of the day, I'm here for George Lucas. I'm here for Star Wars. I'm here for myself and what Star Wars used to be made three things out of the way, just not everything that Disney has created is total garbage. I mean, and then there's everything else. There's there's a rope. One has got some stuff in it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm trying to be as nice as possible here. I don't think there's anything in Kenobi or Boba. But there's some stuff in Mando season one, some stuff. What about the video games that I part of the conversation in anyway? I think we could say that Mando season one. Cinematography. Oh, yeah, the product value is really good. Yeah, that's good enough. You know, 80, 90 percent. But there is that 10 percent that is actually really amazing. Yes. Mandalorian season one and two. The tales of the Jedi. I didn't even see that. So I can't say. The Clone Wars season seven. Rebels. Even he was like. Ahsoka up until episode seven and eight. No, all of it. Wait, he's soured on it then. Damn. I honestly, who could have predicted he would sour on it? Nobody. Nobody at all could have thought that they would. Anyone who liked Ahsoka would sour on Ahsoka. That's just crazy. I don't know what any of this means when he said it's just like whatever. Whatever. Obviously, he'll never sour on Ahsoka episode five. That shit was peak. It was fire. That was so good. That was television. That was fire. That was that was cooking. That was bro. We saw it in Skywalker and he made the red lights saber. But what I'm trying to say is, you know, not everything that. Wait, did he name Andal? No, he didn't because he probably doesn't consider that. Right. I thought he thought he does consider it good. Just boring. I assume that was sure. But I guess I guess good and boring, good and not Star Wars isn't part of the equation of talking about the greatness of Disney Star Wars. Right. Okay. Maybe maybe that he doesn't actually like it like at all. That's probably the truth. He probably does think it's bad or Disney's umbrella was garbage. Now, mind you, those things are created by Dave Floney and John Favreau. Yeah, a lot of bad things were created by those two. Yeah. You can't separate John Favreau from Lion King 2019, by the way. You can't. No, he's connected it. I digress. Obi-Wan Kenobi, the most important Star Wars project since Disney purchased Lucasfilm from George Lucasfilm. No, not as important as the sequels. I don't even think it's as important as The Force Awakens in a way. That was like your big moment of, can we take this forward? What's going to happen now with all the stuff you know in the universe going forward? But important is complicated because it can mean a lot of things. Because in 2012. It can, but like there's nothing more important than the sequels. Yeah, because we could have just stopped. That's the thing. So it's like what's the most important assuming we didn't just leave it alone and let it be what it was? The lowest budget of any Star Wars show to date. The Hulk gets a better budget than Obi-Wan. Yes, because Marvel was making more money more consistently than Star Wars. Yeah. Well, and it was, it was insane. That's not Kenobi's problem. This is not Kenobi's problem. They're different. Well, they're different. They're different departments. It's Lucasfilm and Marvel Studios. They're different companies. They're different production companies. I can barely entertain the conversation though. It's Kenobi's butt. It could have been, it could have been Ewan McGregor in a cave for the whole season. It could have been. No, but that was unfathomable. I imagine that for him, that's like not even in the realm of possibility for a, like, like the idea of a Star Wars show with like Obi-Wan Kenobi, it's entirely him going on like some spiritual journey, you know, like embarking on some like backpacking across the galaxy to learn more about the Force or something. Oh man, stop. I want to see that show. I absolutely would rather see the show of Obi-Wan traveling across a galaxy to like maybe, maybe like places of great religious significance. You know, it's of the Jedi. Like these ancient temples. Imagine him meeting people who are familiar very much so with the Force but have no connection to Jedi. Yes, and have entirely different perspective. Imagine if you learned about, you know, ways of going about being a Jedi that are completely independent of the Jedi Order. Remember that guy that was pretending to be a Jedi to make money? Bumping into someone like that would also be fun and cool and interesting. Yeah, but oh well. No, we don't get to have any of that. We have to have Vroom Vroom with Vader. I mean, what the hell, man? Like who is making these decisions up there? I'm sorry to make this kind of video, dude. But honestly, like who is making those decisions up there? Well, it's a Kathleen Kennedy's fault, right? It's all her fault. It's also, your anger is misplaced. It's not about the budgets. No fucking writing. Why Star Wars is in such a state. What is this? Walt Disney's stock, is it? What is that? What is that? Ivan looks. What's the stock? Well, to this, it's 81.25 currently. That's one day. That's one day's trading. Well, I think I assume the point he's making is that that's where it's sitting right now, whereas wasn't it double this in endgame times? Well, so year to date, they're down 4%, which is, you know, but what was it? Five years, they're down 27. Man, yeah, like they were at $200 in March of 2021. Fuck it, L. That's right, everyone. Bye, bye, bye. And we would say like this, the whole reason for this, there's loads of things, but they're not, you know, the important elements are the destruction of the MCU and Star Wars and Indiana Jones and Willow, Lucasfilm as Jen, you know. Getting to that peak was like the big rally that happened, you know, in 2020, but yeah, it's, wow, that's, yeah, when you look at it, it's like, my God. No good. Where no one is interested anymore. Nobody gives a crap. It's because of shit like this. No, it's not because of the budget. No, it's not because of the budget. It's just the writing for both of those shows was garbage. Dude, if Kenobi had been given an extra 135 million, that doesn't, why would you think that would make it better? It changed anything. It just would have looked better. It probably would have looked better. You might have had an extra episode or something. I don't fucking know, but it would have been shit still. I don't understand. You know what? The budget wasn't even the biggest problem of the show. It's not the problem. It wasn't even the biggest problem. I think he's trying to realize that argument's useless. It's not going to have anything to do with anything. It's not the biggest problem. It's not a problem. Having a 90 million fucking budget is enough. 90 million dollars for six episodes of television is still over 10 million dollars per episode. That is enough for a Kenobi show. You can make his fucking stick glow blue with that kind of money. It's possible. You have fan films. You have fan fiction. See, he realized his point was full of shit. Even his own fan film wouldn't have cost anywhere fucking near 90 million, let alone one million. You don't need the money to make the... I'm not saying anything necessarily about his fan film. I'm saying that he would believe his fan film was good, I assume, and other people's ones. Obviously, it's not the fucking budget. That have no budget. The budget of an internet connection and a computer. That honestly garner more attention. Why do you think that is? Passion, creativity, insight, hard work, redrafting, a script, and love than the... A script. Garbage writing and directing. We got it. Yes, okay. Garbage writing. There we go. Hooray. That flew into the Kenobi show. You have the most important characters in Star Wars. Not only that. You're bringing back Hayden Christensen and Ewan McGregor. You get Jimmy Smits, everybody else. You're bringing back the goats. The original... The prequel original. The prequel original. The original... The OGs, man. The OGs from the prequels. And you not only give a crap script, you get people that don't know what the hell they're doing when it comes to writing the stories and the characters that George built and created. You regress them. You focus on Riva. You make Chasing Layer literally. Start the video here. Where was all this when the show was coming out? That's true, too. Well, to be fair, I didn't watch his reviews, but... Okay, well, does anybody in shout-no? Was he favorable to this show for a while? I would go on a limb and say he must have not been, right? It was so bad. Oh, yeah. It was so fucking bad. You gotta remember. It took a couple of weeks. I remember the finale. I got a great reaction. It did. That's true. Like the most impossible thing to find a nine-year-old or a ten-year-old. And above all, you have open-handed combat from a civilian against stormtroopers. I mean, look, stormtroopers suck, but they're not... No. No. No. Push back on that whenever you can. The stormtroopers suck. Stupid. They shouldn't suck. They should be fearsome. No reason for them to be anything other than men that's very straightforward. They don't have to be fucking idiot clowns. When you say, like, yeah, they can be dumb and shit, but they can't be that dumb and shit. It's like, what? What's even the fucking point of that? They don't get disoriented like that from, you know, a slap on the head. I suppose what's funny about that is it's more likely to get disoriented from, like, an attack on your helmet, I suppose, as a stormtrooper than it is, like, not to be able to shoot anything ever. Which of you guys is more incompetent? Never being able to hit your target or to be disoriented from an attack on your helmet? And never being able to hit seems like a crazy thing to happen. Which is from Mando Season 1, which is the goaded content from Disney, apparently. But then you also managed to give, literally, the worst script of all time the lowest budget of all time. I don't get it. The lowest budget of all time. Ninety million. Ninety million of all time. Ninety million dollars. Come on. Yeah, this is... Stop talking about the budget, please. I don't... I'm trying... Like, I'm trying to understand this. I'm really trying to... Who's making these decisions, dude? Let's give this script the crappiest script of all time. Let's regress the characters and then let's give them the lowest budget of the most important story in Star Wars, the most important characters in Star Wars. But let's just literally give them the bare minimum. The bare minimum. He just said there are... He just said there are fan projects that run on like zero budget. Now this is the bare minimum. Ninety million. Ninety million dollars. And it did not look cheap. The show looked like it was... There were aspects of it that looked cheap. There were aspects of it that looked cheap. That seems like just the norm now. But focus all of our attention in Andor! Which, yes, Andor is a great show for everyone who attended film school and wants to eat their cheese with a French hat. So they can twiddle their moustache at the same time and talk about the Renaissance era and how great things were back then while they sip on their wine from... Can you fucking imagine like film festival types who watch art movies being told Andor is pretentious? Can you imagine? It's just, it's just like... I'm sorry that Andor had like characters and themes and a plot that made sense, a logical progression of characters. I'm thinking about the eye in episode 6. Like actually good combat? How, like... Yeah, you know, when I think of Art House, I think of Andor. Yeah, that's the real out there stuff. When I think of the real avant-garde like indie films and television shows I think of Andor. And you're sitting there and this guy's like, Andor sucks. Anyway, Ahsoka was really fucking good. There is this weird disconnect, right? Because like one of the big problems we had with Ahsoka is that it was boring as fuck. Insanely boring. And then we get told like Andor is boring as fuck and it's like, it is? Oh. It ain't. Sorry. It ain't. I mean if it's boring for you, it's boring for you I guess, but like I was I didn't need to see a lightsaber get waggled around every five minutes or Darth Vader's breathing for me to like be interested in a show. It turns out most TV shows don't have those things and yet somehow I'm able to get through them. Oh yeah, and it's captured some of it. Canobi had the same budget as Game of Thrones Season 8 which was one of the most expensive TV shows of all time when it came out, calling 90 million for six episodes the bare minimum is actually insane. It is nuts. Yeah, I mean he clearly I think this is less to do with Andor or more to do with him being told by Andor fans that Andor is good. Yeah. Like you can tell he's a bit pissed off that he has to keep mentioning Andor as like a sort of a caveat to a lot of the statements when he doesn't believe in it. Andor's good. Yeah. Okay. Andor's good. You like art film. You like art film. You like writing. Ooh, look at you, like an adult or something. One who did film school and wants to eat their cheese with a French hat so they can twiddle their moustache at the same time and talk about the Renaissance era and how great things were back then while they sip on their wine from 19 I imagine his audience were a little bit annoyed with this too because there are going to be plenty of people they would love to have though. 22. Okay. Don't get me wrong. I liked Andor. Did you though? I don't believe you. I think you're saying that just to I just don't believe you. I think you're lying. Nah, I don't believe that for one second. I like it. It was a good show. It was fine. It was cozy. It was also extremely boring and made me fall asleep a million times while I was watching. You liked it. Dude, the amount of shows. I wanted to see the swords go swish swish. That's fine. The amount of shows I watched that made me go to sleep that I rate How many times have we recommended like this is a good sleeper, this one. You got to grab this. That's a good one to go to sleep to. You got to make sure you check out that new show. Oh, sleeper. But it was still a good show. Whatever. I enjoyed it. Just sleepy time. What the... It's still a good show. It's just sleepy time. He really does have a chip on his shoulder about it. He's really upset that his show that doesn't have a generator in it is I believe that he's resented it because it keeps getting in the way of the assessment. You want to run the narrative. It's like, yeah, handle sucks. No. It didn't suck. Even I have to admit that it didn't suck. Like, there's no world where I can pretend. It's easy for us three because we watched it and liked it a lot because it was good. Yeah. We want to put to sleep. You watch Andorra. You want Star Wars? You watch Obi-Wan Kenobi. But it sucked. Wait, he doesn't mean that, right? Revenge of the Sith. You watch a revenge of the Sith. Okay. I'm going Italian now. That's 6% Italian is coming out and I'm starting to get a little bit angry. Is this licensed music or is it... It should be okay if we're going to play for a while. Yeah, there you go. You watch Star Wars. You watch the first six movies and you watch the Clone Wars. That's Star Wars. You watch the Clone Wars. What about Soka? Episode 1, 2, 3, 4, 5... Was it 5, 6? 7 and 8 you didn't like, right? Yeah, that's right. What about Mando Season 1? Is it not Goated? Season 2 as well? You want to create a Star Wars project. You create the Obi-Wan Kenobi show. But not the way it was written by Joby Harald and directed by Deborah Chow. Is that commenting on them? Was there lots of shaky cam? Shaky cam? Get somewhere competent who knows the characters and respects the characters. You get Jon Favreau and they... No! No! It was so funny. He had me in the first half. I was about to say he's right. And then he said those two. What are you talking about? Those fuckers... They're jokes. Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni do the Kenobi show. So he specifically mentioned Season 1 and 2 of Mando. Meaning he thinks 3 is bad, right? Which is them. They made it. They made it. That's theirs. Episode 7 of Soka. Episode 7 and 8 were made by Dave... Well, the whole thing, right? He's doing the work for the whole thing. As far as I'm concerned. Absolutely. I didn't they do all shows. I mean, okay. Andor was fine. Keep the guy there. Andor was fine. You don't believe that. See what I mean? Every time it's his caveat. It's annoying. It's like, Fine! Andor isn't shit, I guess. Yeah. Holy crap. So odd for you. Because obviously he's saying he wants Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni to have control of all of it. But now he's like, I guess that Gilroy guy, he can have Andor. He can have Andor. Yeah. Like, half the time I forgot I was doing a Star Wars show. This is just... Yeah, but... No wonder it turned out so... The context of that comment relates to him being so intertwined with storytelling that it's not like he's thinking when do I get Vader in here? Or when do I sort out how this affects the future events in the sequel? You know what I mean? He's like, no, no, no, no. I'm just, I'm writing characters in a world and they're developing. He's obviously not trying to say like, I don't even like stores. I'm just trying to make a show here. Which, to be honest with you, is probably the best thing you can do with Star Wars right now. At this point, yeah, just forget it, Star Wars. How does it help you at this point to try and remain in continuity with everything that Disney have fucking made? I need to make sure that my story ties into Dave Filoni's really good idea of Mando Zombie Army led by Thrawn and the Night Sisters. Painful. I am so tired of being trying to be so nice to people. It is very tiring, isn't it? It is tiring. I know, man. I don't care if you don't like what I have to say. Don't watch my videos. Damn. I mean, I'm interested to hear your opinion. It's okay. Even if I disagree with it, I'll keep going as I have. I'm giving you a fish shake. I'm not here for them. I'm here for me. I'm here for Star Wars George Lucas and to protect the legacy because quite frankly, dude, I'm the only one that keeps doing it. Dude, what? Alright, calm down. Chill out there, Mr. Mata. Fucking Superman for Star Wars. First of all, when it comes to like protecting an IP as such, it's like Star Wars, what are you even suggesting at this? We'd have to erase everything Disney's done to begin to protect it. Secondly, your idea of protecting Star Wars is to hand it to Dave Filoni and John Fabro. Two of the most destructive people to ever get their hands on. Two of the undertakers of Star Wars. Absolutely insane shit here. Let me choose to press that giant X button and doubt that you are the one that's protecting Star Wars, my good man. And they make clips of me on Tiktok or whatever they can keep doing it, but I'm literally the only one who keeps driving the point home. You know that's not true. He's spoken to Jeremy and Geeks and Gamers. He knows there's plenty of people who fucking fly in the flag of we need to save Star Wars before it drowns in its own piss. There's many of us. We don't give it to the piss masters. He's what George created. It's not this shit that's been created now. That's not really addressing the problem. They say that George made it like, okay. George, just be clear. I don't even need to mention the prequels. Go straight to return to the Jedi. He made the prequels. Yeah, but return to the Jedi has got really bad shit in it. And that's even sure they're back. It sure does. Prequels is a safer one to point to though. Prequels is more thoroughly shit. I guess I'm not interested in being safe. I almost want to be a little edgy and be like George is not perfect. Well, I mean, I mean, I totally agree. I mean, you know, he's a flawed creator. I like him. I respect him. The two good Star Wars movies we got. Yeah, exactly. And it's not hard to, I think, most people agree there's at least something in return to the Jedi that they think is shit. Mostly the Ewoks I think gets referenced. Even though, I mean, I think the Java stuff is more confusing. And given a crap budget so that She-Hulk can shine through... I can't... Stop saying that. Why do you put these two in competition with one another? What the fuck does She-Hulk have to do with Kenobi? There's nothing to do with Kenobi's budget in terms of how everything gets decided in the corporate ladders of fucking Disney. But then secondly, Stop referring to 90 million as like a shoestring budget. It's fucking retarded. It's not a shoestring budget. Yeah, you know, Kenobi, he had to break his own prop lightsaber because they just couldn't give one to him. Yeah, they had to shoot during the day so they had some daylight to work with. Through as she twerks with Meg the Stallion. Yeah, it was pretty cringe. I mean, I just don't get it, man. How can this... What is this music? I don't know. Is it copyrighted? Four billion dollar company be handled. Are you giving yourself like triumphant music or sort of... That is mega cringe. That sounds like something Dave Filoni would do. Oh, no. Did Dave Filoni direct this video? Oh, no. He did. The composer room. These pooms who don't even understand the characters. You mean John Favre or Dave Filoni? Yeah, literally John Favre. Tell me, give me one good character that those two have ever been near. But also assign these nitwits to write for these... Damn, he is tired of being nice. Yeah. And at the same time give them pennies. Pennies? Ninety million dollars. Ninety million dollars. Ninety million dollars. Ninety million dollars. Pennies. I have nothing else to say about that, but I don't want to hit play yet. I'm kind of just trying to get over it. Pennies. That is one shiny penny, I would say. But then they want to give She-Hulk the most money because it's with CGI. I mean, Star Wars has... That would be a reason. Yeah, everyone could have had a lot of visual effects as well. Plenty of CGI in that. But again, why does he not understand that they're Disney, but one of them is Lucasfilm and one of them is Marvel Studios. They have different leadership. Yeah, I don't think they're competing with each other. I don't think anyone's... Yeah, not getting each other's way. What he's saying here is almost like She-Hulk is to blame for Kenobi's failure because it took away its money. That's the message I'm getting. Remember the ending of She-Hulk? Yeah, it was like the rest of the show. It was awful. What the hell did they do to Hulk's son? Oh, okay. Well, I guess you could reference that, sure. That was fair, yeah, that was pretty bad too. You guys remember, why does Andor have a $250 million budget? It was great. It was really fucking good and it looks amazing. They go to all kinds of different places. All the sets for the prison, the CGI sequence for the eye. It was cold the eye, right? It looks so good. It was fucking crazy. It looked so good. Andor looks so good and there's such a diversity in the places that they go to. All of the costumes and the props looks so good. They managed to capture that element that the OT have, which is, it's like, whoa, that will look like an actual place that people do things in. It did. Yeah, this still like sci-fi, analog, kind of look to everything with knobs and bricks and all kinds. They were screws and bricks, that's true. Screws and bricks, you could, it really is a world that it's so easy to just imagine living in. As for like, if you want to say, should it have cost that much to do what they did in Andor? Maybe not. But I don't see what that has to do with a 90 million budget being not enough for Kenobi, I don't get it. I mean, I feel like it should be. And also, I'm not sure if it's been brought up yet. Andor had twice as many episodes. Oh yeah, there's that too. Oh yeah. The episodes were consistently longer. So fuck me. I'm so curious if minute by minute. Now on it. Wait, that's worth calculating. Now I need to know. Oh my god. Oh no. Hold on, let me see if I can find some. You're looking to break the runtime of Andor in total into minutes. And then, right. Well, that's going to be difficult unless someone's already calculated the total runtime of Andor. Oh, someone has. Someone has somewhere, yes. By the way, the thing that's on the screen Kenobi's budget was a fraction. That fraction is like. It's a big fraction. It's like two-fifths or something like that. It's a pretty big chunk. It's a little bit less than half. On Reddit, someone calculated the total runtime for Andor was seven hours, 51 minutes and 54 seconds. So the average runtime per episode was 39 minutes and 20 seconds. The total length for Kenobi was 3 hours and 42 minutes which means add an average runtime per episode of 37 minutes and 6 seconds. So actually, it's not too much of a difference, but nevertheless, what was the budget? Was Andor's budget $250 million? Let me double-check. Andor budget estimated at $250 million. Okay. Good old calculate. We'll just do it by wait, hold on. What was the total runtime for Andor? Seven hours, 51 minutes and 54 seconds. So let me how many minutes is that? So 60 times by 8 minus let's say minus 6. So 474 minutes divided by 250 million means that I'm a moron. Okay. No, I did it the wrong way around. It's 250 million divided by 700 fuck me. All right, hold on. All right. Well, we're figuring out his cost per minute, I assume. Yeah, so the cost per minute is does that scan? Again, the cost per minute would be $527,426 per minute. Does that line up? Oh, yeah, it would. That about lines up. And now for Kenobi, right? So Kenobi would be so do we know for sure that that was 90 million then? Well, I mean, all of this is based on the idea that it is so we'll just go with it. I would obviously chat. You can correct my maths here by just screwing up. Just to be. Okay, yeah, let's say 90. Okay, so three hours and 42 minutes. So 60, 20, 180. So that'd be 222 minutes. Yeah, 222. So 90 million divided by 222. So it's about 405,405. Oh, it's just 405, 405 repeating over and over and over again. So 405,405 dollars with my very, very, very rough maths. So it basically cost about $100,000 more per minute, which ain't that much more. It adds up, but like it ain't dramatically. That's 20% more expensive, basically. But you can account for that with Andor looks way better than Kenobi. It does. Andor goes to way more places than Kenobi. Oh, yeah. If for a 20% increase you get way more than 20% because all we've done is equalize them on budget to amount of content. But now we should be like, okay, add more variables being that Andor, we're not even talking about script but Andor went to way more places in the universe and it had way better sets, way better prep. It's like looked way better. Yeah, like I think you could conclude that Andor used its money more more effectively sure than Kenobi. Oh, absolutely. Okay, assuming that that was all correct, which I'm pretty yeah. Well, yeah, I mean it makes the difference a lot softer, doesn't it, compared to what it looks like 90, 90 million versus 250 million. There's a gap of 132 was it? No way, 260 million. Yeah, so it looks like a gap of $160 million when in actuality, based on per minute run time, it's more like a 20% difference, which isn't nothing, but it's certainly and it's dramatic. No, yeah, yeah. I totally forgot about the number of episodes like part of the equation. Yeah. Paid 20, 30 million at least to Hayden 20, 30 million to Ewan 60 million right there. Oh shit, you have the whole budget for the show, but they give 200. Do you think that they're paying them $20 million? I don't think Hayden Christensen, I don't think he's getting 20, 30 million. Don't even care if they paid the $89 million between the two of them, you could still make an amazing show. Absolutely. 50 million to Andor, 250 million to or 225 million to She-Hulk, you're looking at $500 million to even a half a billion dollars for two shows, which honestly aren't even the most important things in either. Please don't equate Andor and She-Hulk Jesus. They're franchises. What the hell are these people thinking, and you're wondering why South Park is making these kinds of comments towards Kathleen Kennedy. It's not because they lowered the budget for Kenobi. No. I bet that in the writers were and they were like, isn't it fucking insane that Kathleen Kennedy decided to spend more money on Andor than Obi-Wan Kenobi? You know, that's pretty wild. That's all that Stone and Tree Park was talking about. It's because their products are shit and they're constantly bad. You know when she says when Cartman Kennedy says put a chicken to make it gay and lame? The lame is like specifically referencing how shit the writing is. Yes. It's lame. Fucking lame. It's because people there clearly aren't using their brains, and it seems like I'm taking crazy pills. I'm starting to feel like I'm Mugatu. It's like does nobody see this? No, loads of people see it. I've been about it forever. I don't know where you've been. They've made awful decisions. He's been sucking it off this whole time. I was gonna say like you're not... It's like it's just like joining a fucking choir and being like, am I the only one singing here? It's like... What? I'm just standing around like, hey, it's okay. No, we're not standing around saying it's okay. We never have been. I don't know. Who are you talking to? We got Andor. Andor's the best star award. You need to let go. Andor is fucking incredible. How many times do we say... How many times do we say that Andor being good or even great, it doesn't fucking matter. Star Wars is dying. One good show is never gonna be able to bring it back anyway. We said this. That would be the case for Echo. To bring back Star Wars, same methods as Marvel. You'd need to be great content continuously. You can't just fucking have a one-off show. Nobody ever said it's okay that Kenobi was shit because we got Andor. Fuck those things we have to do with each other. It's not even remotely connected. It just doesn't make sense. It's like... Does nobody see this? I'm just standing around like, hey, it's okay. We got Andor. Andor is the best Star Wars we've ever... It is. Well, it is the best Star Wars that Disney made. It's been the best Star Wars since 1980. Yeah. It is. It is the best Star Wars. It's the best Star Wars. It's the best Star Wars in like 40 years. It's one of the best Star Wars things like ever made. It's not. It's... Blade Runner. The timing of that was kind of pooing me. I wasn't totally paying attention to that. Can you just replay that? Nobody see this? And we're all just standing around like, hey, it's okay. We got Andor. Andor is the best Star Wars we've ever... It's not. It's Blade Runner. What the fuck? It's amazing. I don't even know where to begin with any of that. It's not good. It's bad. What is the similarity in the subject matter of Andor and Blade Runner? Andor doesn't cover anything that Blade Runner is fucking all about. What are you talking about? It's so ironically between them. Blade Runner. Why was that a comparison that you made? And why was it negative? Why was it negative? What was it negative? Darth Vader is not in Blade Runner. Sadly, it would have improved it. Just like Andor. But do you see this? And we're all just standing around like, hey, it's okay. We got Andor. Andor is the best Star Wars we've ever... It's true. It's not. It's Blade Runner with a Star Wars theme. Bro, you said you fall asleep to it. You said it was like, it's okay. Blade Runner? Does he know how... Does he know that people like Blade Runner? See how this is like a giga-hot take? I don't think he understands that. When you say Blade Runner with Star Wars coat of paint, I'm like, sold. Absolutely sold. That part's not where my brain got stuck. I'm collecting all the things he said to me, which is that Andor... It's okay. Yeah, sure. It's good to fall asleep to. Good for the fucking pretentious people to like. It's like Blade Runner. What the fuck? Or is he trying to compare it like in terms of the subject matter? No fucking way. He's connecting what Blade Runner's about to what Andor's about. How? What was that guy that we watched the guy who said that like Andor was basically like any other, like it was the Expanse or Star Trek. The thing that made Star Wars was Lightsabers that he's trying to play. It's not Star Wars. It's generic, like... True Star Wars guy? I guess that's what I'm saying. That's what my mind is now kind of wondering. Is that where we're at? Because it's about regular people, no Jedi or anything like that maneuvering through a science fiction world that makes it comparable, even though again... I don't see the connection. I don't know what point he's trying to make here. I mean, you know what? I'm fine with it. He's big enough Andor. He is big enough Andor. It's a Blade Runner, my God. I know, Greg. I love Blade Runner, my God. With the Star Wars theme, it's not bad. I love Blade Runner. Go to my Theory Talks channel. I'm always playing Blade Runner music. Now I'm even more lost. Now I'm much more lost. Now I have no idea. This is a funny video. It doesn't mean it's a good show for Star Wars. The last Jedi with the most asinine representation of a continuation of Luke Skywalker's story that I've ever seen in my life. Yet it was a good movie. No. That's it. GG. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. I don't remember the theme song from Game Theory. Fuckin nobody does, whatever. He's apparently in the Five Nights of Freddy's film, by the way. Oh, I can believe not, yeah. He's got a cabio, it's gonna be funny. Movie? It just wasn't a good Star Wars movie. What the heck? I just, I don't- Yeah, yeah, there it is. I'm sorry, it's so hard for me to know- Star Wars is Darth Vader waggling a red lightsaber. That's what Star Wars is. It's really hard for me to feel like sad for him realizing like how bad Star Wars is when his ideas to fix it are like, take it away from someone like Blade Runner. Push it toward John Favre and Dave Filoni. And remember, we can do stuff like TLJ because that gives us good movies, but it doesn't give us good Star Wars movies. Also give me Anakin. Like what a fucking fart collection. What the hell am I supposed to do with that? It's like, yes, I'm destroyed about the state of Star Wars too, my good man. Like, we fundamentally disagree on so much. Well, he's also telling me like, you know, like, am I the only one who sees this? I'm the only one who's fought for this? Like, what? Are you okay? Like, what's happening? All right. You know the movie How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days? I feel like Disney has one. Like, How to Lose a franchise in 10 years. And now- Oh, yeah, that's pretty, that's pretty, that's pretty clever. Now they're pouring all this money and focusing on the Rey movie? Like, are you guys not learning your lesson? Like, seriously? The answer is no. I mean, this is coming back to more so reality again. It's like, yeah, that's a really bad choice for obvious reasons. And the reason- It could be a great film, but that wouldn't even save Star Wars. At that point, it would probably- It's just a disastrous move to make a Rey movie. So what are you doing? I would confuse people more than anything. If we went, have we went to the Rey movie and we were like, wow, that was really good. That was weird. Anyway, all right. That was a good movie. Are you not learning your lesson? They are definitely not. I just don't get it, man. I don't get it how they can be so out of touch. To be- Okay, wait. They're not learning their lesson. However, Dave Filoni was recently given full control over a full TV show, which is something that he is fully on board with and yet is critical of the finale, despite the fact that I guess he thinks that Dave Filoni should be given more control. Like, shouldn't he be saying like, well, we're on track on the TV show side at least. Yeah, there's no reason to be upset. The dark times, they're over. We're entering into the good times again. Yeah, because he said he wants Dave Filoni and John Favreau to have full control of all of Star Wars. And so Dave Filoni going from directing and writing some episodes of some shows to getting his full own show. That's great news from his point of view. Exactly. That's right. Kathleen Kennedy, you're on the right track. She knows what she's doing. She's listening. She's learning. She's giving Star Wars to the custodians that deserve it. Yeah, you know, she's on the right track. Feels like he's having two thoughts at once that cannot coexist. The force is female. Make better Star Wars, dude. Make Mando season one and two. Make that continuous. Those sucked. What about three? I can't believe the three is the newest one Star Wars theory. That's the newest one executive executive produced by John Favreau and Dave Filoni. Yeah, sorry. What I mean by newest one is it's the newest one by those two, which are his golden team. So I don't know what the hell happened with the book of Boba Fett. No, I don't know what happened either because again, that was produced by John Favreau and Dave Filoni, right? Uh-huh. I think so. Obviously, someone's meddling with something out there. Ah, yeah. There's a fucking Palpatine out there pulling the strings. It can't be that Favreau and Filoni are just shit. No, it can't be that they're shit at right Star Wars or that they don't give a fuck or that they're really bad at right. It can't be any of those things. There has to be some sheave. Creamy sheave is out there pulling those fucking strings, man. Remember we ruined Luke, but we definitely didn't ruin Luke when Skinwalker appeared in Boba Fett. No, no, no, no, no, no. Consistent wise, it just doesn't make sense. Band of Season 1 and 2 were literally like perfection. No. Wow. Okay. I am willing to like tolerate love for those seasons, but perfection come on. Name one character and a trait that they have. There's so much retardation in both seasons. It's crazy. They suck. They actually suck, but for whatever reason, they just get away with it. I don't know what it is if they get away. I don't know if it's the shitty combat or the shitty characters. Season 1, I understand a little more for how it sneaks by because it looks real cool and it does try to... What it sells you on is not what it is, but it convinces a lot of people it's what it is, which is a bounty hunter making his way through the universe just trying to get by, which is really cool and awesome. It's not all the show is, but a lot of people think that's what the show is. Band of Season 3 was the most disjointed thing of... That was them, bro. That was not fire, was it? That was not peak. And yet that was them. We're seeing Boba Fett was just... shit. To be honest, like... I mean, Season 3 Mando was shit. Ahsoka was shit. We went back. I wonder what his... Mando Season 2 was very shit. I wonder what his scores were for Boba Fett. Season 1 was pretty shit, too. The first two episodes were amazing. The first two episodes of Boba Fett were amazing? He didn't just say that, right? Damn. He might... I've never seen Boba Fett. Remember the part when Matt Shamp punched Boba Fett? To be honest, like the first two episodes were amazing. Oh my God, he did say that. Okay. Fucking hell. The first two episodes of Boba Fett were amazing. Was the episode... Was episode 2 the gun train? That was the gun train, yes. That was fucking... Laughable. The whole season was absolutely laughable. But seriously? Amazing. Instead of letting the gun train go by, they all just got killed by it. I get so confused listening to this, man, because I've just been told, like, episodes 1 through 6 of Ahsoka, episodes 1 and 2 of Boba Fett, seasons 1 and 2 of Mando. This is all the goaded stuff, as well as rebels, by the way. It was given a special mention. Of course, Clone Wars. We're not gonna give Rogue One or Andor into this list. Like, and I know you might be like, well, Rogue One isn't amazing. It's like, no, but the point is that all of them make it, but those don't. It's like, okay. I have no idea what he'll find amazing or what he'll hate. What I'm getting at is that, like, I've even labeled all the things that he's, like, really enjoyed. And yet, Star Wars isn't, like, you know, disastrous right now, according to him. Even though loads of the stuff that's been made he really likes. It's considered excellent and amazing. I'm pretty sure episodes 5 of Ahsoka and the season finale of Mando season 2 are, like, some of his favorite Star Wars of all time. And they're made by the people that he thinks should be in control who have been getting more control. Everything I know tells me that he should be happy with Star Wars right now. Yep. Why wouldn't he be? But his title is, I'm done here, Disney's destroying Star Wars and his primary point was that the budget for Kenobi was too low at 90 million. Million dollars. Which is... This video is fucking confusing. Well, I mean, it's a stream of consciousness, isn't it? Just, uh... I'm discontent. Well, stream of... Tomlin. I don't know, that's what it comes across as. It's a stream of discontent, the source from which is unclear. Like, I'm not quite sure where it comes from. I'm not quite sure how to fix it. I'm just frustrated. Then after that, like, what happened? The booby-fed. What? Like, what's going on here? I don't even understand the joke. I don't know, I just feel like... I feel like... I feel like it's satire at this point, you know? It's like we just constantly keep trying to... See what else they're going to mess up at this point. And it's like, I don't want to do that. Just want to... Well, they kind of killed all of it, man. I got to say, I find the reaction to a lot of Disney... I find the... I find like the... The Mando Season 1, 2, and Ahsoka is great, but the sequel trilogy is bad. I find that one fascinating is like a sort of almost like a space. Yeah, you want to sit down and say like, no, but tell me why? Why was the sequel shit? But Ahsoka was great. We're fast approaching 10 years of them releasing Star Wars content, right? Yeah. Which means that it has to just over the ears. It's going to generate different... You know, it was, do you like the sequels or not? Quickly became, do you like TFA or not? And TLJ or not? And then it became TLJ, TFA, and... You don't like all three of those. Nobody does. You have to pick a team because those sequels hate each other. So it doesn't make any sense to be like, I love all three of them. It's like, okay. I mean, you can. I'm just saying that like most people... It creates divides. And you've already got the prequels as a big divide. The OT fans as a big divide. And then people who are just like into all of it, I guess, like I said, that seems weird, but maybe that's the thing. But like fast forward to now, we've got people who are big Mando fans who are not fans of any of the sequels who might not even be fans of the prequels. And then you've got people who are like big into rebels in the Clone Wars and love to Soka and the prequels, but not the sequels and maybe not even the OT. Some people are like, yeah, the OT M or some of the prequels. Oh, bang it. It's just like, these fucking pockets of Star Wars fans are all over the place at this point. You can't predict anything about what anybody's going to like or hate or think is good or bad. In fact, a lot of people will hear what we think is good and bad and think like, fucking hell, you guys are crazy. Well, yeah, it's interesting because there's a lot of disparate boogeymans. There's a lot of disparate. You're the reason why everything's horrible. Like a lot of, I mean, because it was like you pointed out, there's sort of the divide, the rise of Skywalker, the responses, there is a contingent there that is responsible for this being bad because they didn't like TLJ. If it was like there's an increasingly smaller portion, like a proportion of the percentage of, that's a stupid sentence. A smaller percentage of actively talking about Star Wars people who like TLJ, I think it was brilliant and profound and inspired and that all of the people who just want to see the swords go swoosh, swoosh, but then there's differing opinions from the people who just want to see the swords go swoosh, swoosh, and the blasts go pew, pew. I just find it interesting how that's like emerged and it'll only become more and more fragmented as time goes on. Enjoy Star Wars. You guys remember how hyped Star Wars fans were when Mando 1 came out? My gosh. You remember how hyped they were with TFA came out? That was crazy. Culturally speaking, Star Wars was reaching somewhere like skyrocketing highs, not necessarily the highs like of all time because when the fucking first film came out, that was crazy for the world as well. But I'm just saying like Star Wars just diminished. It has only diminished over time. Oh yeah. I mean, TFA was like there were huge portions of like shops that were just dedicated to Star Wars merchandise. Like just big portions. It's just like, yep, this is like the Star Wars part of like the retail store and that was that was that's a loss for a while. I think it was like Star Wars was back. It's like after that's after the last Jedi and we thought, you know, like, oh my God, okay. Finally, we got something to I'm sorry. Why the fuck would you think Star Wars is back from just Mando even if Mando season one was as good as people say it is? Like, why would that be? It's one TV show about a character that doesn't regard most of anything. I don't even know what it means for Star Wars to be back. I don't know. I don't know. Well, as you saw on that graph, we be back is really just a it's a matter of time before. It's a matter of perspective, isn't it? It's really it's relative. It's yeah, because as we said, Andal being good didn't really matter in terms of Star Wars trajectory grasp on to now. I don't know, dude. I don't know. It's just and and you know, they don't even want to give Kenobi a second sea and it's like, well, yeah, I mean, I don't blame you, dude. Like, where are you going to go from there? That's not why it's bad or why they won't get a season two is because it didn't make enough money. Didn't make enough engagement. There's nothing to do with the story. They could they can make a 10 billion season. They made it for even for the pennies that they made it for the pennies told them to spend more money. But then he'd be like, yeah, but if they spent more, they would have made more. You've got to spend money to make money. All right. But like, it just is so amazing to be that he's like, well, of course, because there's no way to go with Kenobi story. Now, it's like what I mean? Yes, there is just a group of people get kidnapped from some village. He's told about it. I could make a whole season out of that done. Yeah. Again, his spirit fucking Qui-Gon talking to Qui-Gon is still on the table. Yeah. A bubble episode. That's just those Mr. Star Wars fan over here. Doesn't see where it could go. Yeah. What a lack of imagination there than the grasp on to now. I don't know, dude. I don't know. It's just and you know, they don't even want to give Kenobi a second seat and it's like, well, yeah. I mean, I don't blame you, dude. Like, where are you going to go from there? I mean, the whole show just focused on. Yeah, you guys have heard me talk about it. I'm just I'm just so I'm so frustrated. I'm so Disney and I get that and I feel like it's the same as the other guy in some ways. Like this is kind of what I mean about a new era. A lot of fans who were like loving the fuck out of all of it and now like feeling bad and don't know how to express it properly and don't know where the problem lies and start to fucking go after all kinds of crazy things like the 90 million budget that he's focused so hard on or we don't have enough of our old stars back. We got to bring back more people that people like. That's what we need to do. Oh, we need more. I mean, I say this, I'm trying to reference the Matt guy from earlier, but technically I am referencing Star Wars theory as well. He said on the I think it was Instagram that like the person said, why do you like episode five? All it is just Anakin and lightsabers and then he was like, that's Star Wars. It's so like that's how you solve it for him. He's feeling bad because the writing is so fucking bad at this point. It's like staggeringly killing people's investment in this IP and you know, Disney's current state is sort of bleeding into everything to do with their products. The feeling is there. Obviously the stock is there. All these like bigger articles coming out and then these recognitions from stuff as much as as big as South Park, the writing is on the wall. People know and now it's time to be like, yeah, I got it. I can't believe he had the balls to say he's the only one to say it and he's the only one who sees it. It's like what are you talking about? You're so late to the party. Like I don't know. Guy, do what you want to do, man. At this point, you know, you can't, it's in the hands of the fans and the fans are going to continue to make fan films. You guys are going to continue to get roasted by South Park and even bigger media that will come in the future and you deserve it. You really do. Roasted themselves, man. Because you just, you aren't learning from anything and you're continuously ruling with your ego. I don't say this with any vitriol whatsoever, but if they had listened to your advice, I don't think they even come close to saving Star Wars. It's still crap and burns because he hasn't focused like on the fundamentals and he often advocates for bringing in all of the favorites, which they have done by the way, a lot of to the point where they're fucking digging out of Clone Wars and Rebels. Oh, and you guys just have no idea what Star Wars is about at the end of the day. There aren't many people at Lucasfilm who have a real good, clear understanding. And yes, I do think I have a very good understanding of what Star Wars is. First six films. I think I know it better than pretty much anybody for whatever whatever. Like what am I supposed to do with that after everything else he said? I feel like. Okay. Yeah, I just that doesn't mean anything after everything else you said. I don't know, man. Just just I heard what your insight is in the past 10 minutes. You telling me what that insight was in conclusion is not going to convince me as much as my lying ears, I guess. Clone Wars. I mean, you want to talk about mythology? You want to talk about Star Wars? You want to talk about character arcs? You want to talk about themes? You want to talk about the characters themselves? But Andorra's bad. What they were going through? Why they did what they did? No, no, Andorra's good. It's just a sleepy show. Blade Runner, Blade Runner, sleepy Blade Runner. No cooking, no peak valley, pure valley. Did you want to talk about horse abilities, lightsaber techniques and fighting styles and backstories and this and that? That's all the stuff people get invested in once you've nailed the foundation. Once you get all the character shit right, then people will be like, they want to learn more about the universe and that's where all that comes from. Not like the characters using the correct fighting style is the reason why Star Wars is as popular as it was. I mean, I know the movies and the books inside and out. Okay. I'm not the only one. There are millions of others at Lucasfilm that know so much about Star Wars. Millions of people at Lucasfilm. I don't think they employ that many people. The VFX dungeons are back to the brim. Millions of VFX artists chained inside of the computers rendering all of She-Hulk's toes. Good old Lucasfilm has 2,000 employees. You mean 2 million? 2 million. Oh, that's in 2015. So maybe they've been expanded by one. They did, yeah. 10,000-fold. Maybe. We're in Dave Floney. I mean, these are two guys that like, you can't be luckier finding. What do you mean? They made Mando season 3. And the last two episodes of Ahsoka. Yes. And they were the producers on Book of Barba Fett. They are a curse getting their hands on this series. I was going to say, from his POV, he should say they are a mixed bag. From our POV, they are absolutely a curse on Star Wars. They've destroyed so much more than they ever could have had to. Talents like this and having them be loyal to the brand and having loyal to the brand. Don't ever say that. Sounds gross. Them work for the brand. I mean, honestly, at this point, you would be a fool to not be hiring the two of them to work together to create everything. No, you'd be a fool to do that. First thing you're gone. Sorry, bye. You had me. Oh, God, did you imagine for any like insane, nonsense, multiversal reason that we got given like the power to make those kinds of changes and we publicly like stream a YouTube video where we say the first thing we're doing is firing Dave Filoti. Fucking Star Wars 3 would hate us so much. We'd be like, we're helping you. Don't you worry. We're saving you. It's like a child. The medicine tastes bad, but you'll make it, bro. We'll sort it out. Don't you worry. They've had so many chances and they've consistently delivered absolute garbage. It's over. Yes, they have been given so many as far as I'm concerned. I think I said this to you for like the the Ahsoka show. That would have been the final test that could possibly have been allowed. You get given a full writing and controlling as much as that he had like full control, right? Like that's that's his baby. Yeah, every episode executive producer show run it. That was he wrote every empty pause. You cannot have that much control make that something that shit and then tell me that he's going to save Star Wars. No, no way. I mean, it didn't work because look at the viewership numbers. They're down. If people aren't watching. As for that. Oh, wait, people saying you talk about Sam Whitworth. He said both of them as for Sam Whitworth. I mean, I don't mean to see what Sam Whitmore would write. Has he got writing credits for anything? I mean, not that I'm aware of. He's got acting credits and voice acting credits. And I think he's I think he's a talented guy. But like what I'm fine. I'm fine for Sam Whitworth to be a part of Star Wars. That's fine with me. Yeah, cool. But I am absolutely fucking done letting Dave Filoni pistol over Star Wars out. Show him the door and then when John Favreau says, wow, he got rid of him and be like, yeah, you're getting in the car too. But I got to go. Yeah, yeah, you know, I'm glad to be ready. I'm not allowed to be here. This is trespassing. But Sam Whitworth, you go ahead and you voice acts and you play whatever characters you're great. I love you. Go ahead. Yeah. We'll give you a star killer show going forwards. Hired of this green. I would. Yeah, I do that in a hobby. A star killer show. Why not? Yeah. Light 1313 green light the force and leash three. No one cares about your junk. It's over. 1313. It's Biden. All right. It's been a decade. Force Unleashed three. Didn't they kill Force Unleashed one and twos Canon? Oh, yes. But maybe he wants maybe he wants to you. But if he made you Canon, wouldn't that contradict like the EU created by good old Dave? Oh, well, I guess in his perfect world, he would just decanon and recanonize like different things or whatever. I guess I just find it. Lucas arts doesn't exist anymore. That that that place is gone and the team that exists there is gone forever. And in fact, one of the one of the most baffling things about destroying Lucas arts is why would you destroy a company that not only succeeded in creating successful liked Star Wars games, but a company that created a lot of things that weren't Star Wars that were also successful and like. Why? Why do I don't know? I don't I just don't I don't fucking get it. Just why don't you just let them keep making shit people like. My favorite part is that they create. They're like, oh, now it's Lucas film games. Lucas film game. What? Okay. It's green light. 1313 green light. The force in which no one cares about junk cannon. Just you care about that junk. You just said love that shit. You just you love. Well, how does he feel about the Star Wars Jedi games? Well, like, uh, all in order. We'll survive. Is the other one right? Or is that a survivor? I don't know. But you cannot tell me that like you want to you want to ditch the the junk cannon of like Kenobi Boba fat and maybe Mando season three. But we'll keep all the awesome cannon of Mando season one and two and Ahsoka's episodes one through six. Like what what is this line you're drawing? It doesn't really fucking sense create good stories that we love create the characters that we love embellish the characters that we love continue their stories create Star Wars make it great. So we'll go the opposite direction. Stop talking about the characters we love make new ones and do your best with that. Yeah. Exactly. Also decanonize everything you've made so far except Yes, absolutely. Everything that I made except for Randall is gone. Everything nuke it. We got a song again was give it a proper fair chance for the characters that matter. Give them the money they deserve. Oh, stop coming back to that retarded point. The money they deserve 20% more money and they're doing well you see free. That would have saved it. Yes, it's quite the mindset. Like, man, these shows suck. They need to be given more money. So weird, so bizarre to me. They'll never learn and we'll continue to learn if this is the fucking solution you're providing. He pushed towards. I find it so weird. This has been a fascinating adventure of people presenting incredibly incoherent visions for the future inside guys Marvel and Star Wars respectively. I think it's fascinating because it comes directly from people who have been swallowing up that pipe of sludge and then they cough and go, oh God, the solution here is more salt. It's like, no, we got to we got to salt the earth here. All right, that's a good idea. Salt the galaxy. That's all it is. That's all that'll happen. That's that's literally it. So yeah, great job. Let me know what you guys think about this. You suck. I don't have a great day. May the force be with. It's like, this guy is like three million subs and he's the ambassador of whatever of the whatever he said some cringy shit on that video. And I'm like, Jesus Christ, like you've done so much damage and do you know how I found out about this even existing was that this got relatively high on a Reddit saying Star Wars fans right now. It's it's that was like, okay, we have to have an episode on this is both fucking teams. The Marvel and Star Wars people do the same thing. Oh, you know, Star Wars, it's over. Nothing's going to change. I'm done. I'm tired. If you say like, what is like clearly when he says I'm done here and I'm like, you're not. You're Star Wars. No, you'll never be done. You have your existence to that. You're never done. What do you think I'm done means? Well, I guess it means that you're just slightly perturbed for a short off the cuff video. That's what I'm done means. What position are you in to negotiate anything by way of changes in Star Wars? If you're always going to show up every time, like, why would they care what you think you're always going to show up, you know, why would they change unless there was it goes further than that. He's not just showing up. He's celebrating the quality of current day Star Wars while also saying Star Wars is being destroyed. It doesn't make any sense. That's true. The same goes for that Matt guy. He was like Marvel's being destroyed in shambles. It's also pretty fucking great. It's also pretty good. I'm going to be with him forever. So the day I die, you know, I'm always getting this there is. Is and yeah, that's that's the episode. That is a that as you can imagine now what I was trying to capture through this adventure. Well, I will say I don't know. I don't know if they're going to be copyright issues, but television and other ranting says made the meme video of Luther and scars cards. There's definitely going to be copyright issues. Okay, that's strictly and or and Marvel will save for a beamfab right after. Yeah, I'll save it for a beamfab because I'm very, very very excited to see that. I'm not going to wait till the meme park. I'm just going to watch after that in the stream. I'm very fair. I'll I'll save off the suspense. So yeah, what have we learned? Nothing. It's a moral story. Nothing really. Um, I guess insight, insight into the perspectives of certain people on these big franchises. Yeah, I feel this is a big new step. Where it used to be mainly people like us who are like, we don't like this. And then there was the people who were like, brah, I like this. And then there's people who like absolutely just suck on that big old Disney peen. But it feels like the Overton window and what's acceptable to say about the quality of current stuff has moved to the point where you're seeing these people freak out. They don't know what to do anymore. Like the both sides of like Marvel and Star Wars. They're like, this is this is awful and fun and great and terrible and great. And what's happening? It's it's interesting in much the same way that the formula, particularly Disney employed of Marvel movies, Star Wars stuff, live action remakes, a formula that consistently made money for a while in much the same way that that's broken now and they don't know what to do. The adjacent like media ecosystem is like caught up in that break as well. Of the script of new exciting Marvel Disney Star Wars product. Isn't that exciting and hype? And also what's next and merchandise and everything that now that's starting to break down as well. It's fascinating. It really is. I learned a lot, you know, because this is pretty easy for us million dollars was pennies. Yeah, that was there's so much fucking crazy quotes from this episode. But the I would say this is super easy for us because we just take it all as it comes, call it what it is and then notice the trends and comment on the matter, including like commentary from, you know, the creators or where they plan to go or what currently looking like stock box office, all that. So like, it's the easiest story to see. You can just see it all playing out. We've been saying Marvel is just head and well, Disney they're heading down. We haven't even talked at all today about their live action remakes. Like, you know, the fucking disaster too. Yeah. We haven't talked at all about their theme park stuff, merchandise, general as like as a service. Yeah, like there's it's all falling apart. Once you once you know all of those things, it's very simple to just be like, well, there we go. But again, what does it look like when a huge part of your identity and also your business? I guess if you want to talk about like making YouTube videos about Marvel or Star Wars, what does it look like when it starts to break down? It's not even hard to account for the really good stuff that pops up like there it goes. No, not really, especially when you find out who makes it and how and why and all the shit to do with it and then whether or not it's even cared about what ratings it can get engagement and then whether or not it'll be renewed will be lucky to fucking see and all season two at this point. Get it out if you can. I guess please, please. And yeah, I don't know. Like, like he's like, what happens next? Like the Marvels is going to crash and burn and then it'll bring out a lot more criticism again. People will be like, you know what was wrong, but the models is it didn't connect enough to the overall story? The thing that was wrong with the models is that there wasn't enough people that we know from the MCU. The thing that's wrong with the models is Spider-Man wasn't in it. Tobii McGuire Spider-Man should have been in there. The thing that was wrong with it was the visual effects. That was it. It was the pacing. No, no, no. It was the length. It's too short. It was too comedic. They need to take this. It's too comedic. Yeah, but it was also too dark sometimes. That's right. It was, yeah, and it's all, you know, it all comes back to, you know what? It just wasn't very well written. You know what? It's just not Marvel. It's not very Marvelous. Is it? It's not much of a Marvel. And that's that's the big problem is they're just not quite. It's a good movie. It's okay movie. It's just not a Marvel movie. It's just not a Marvel movie. That's right. Um, we've done episodes like this before where we cover people and like the crazy excuses they come up with for just avoiding saying, wow, the Ryan was really bad. And that's probably what the models is going to be. Obviously the plots fucking leaked already. So I mean, yeah, I mean, we'll see. Well, I mean, it's only a few days away. How exciting. Yes. And then, of course, Loki will end. It'll end horribly bad. Oh, yeah. The Echo show is going to be more than like, you know, I'm going to be trying my life here. It's more than likely going to be bad. More than likely. Yeah, no one's going to talk about it. No one's going to give a shit. Um, yep. And then we're going to 2024 is going to be an even more interesting year for what the fuck these shows and movies are going to look like and what Marvel will be doing in terms of how to release them. Same thing. I say all this as if Star Wars, this story isn't fucking fascinating. They're desperately trying to make Star Wars even somewhat profitable and engageable. That's where they're at with that. That's what we've seen over the last few years is it's kind of like the impossible has become possible. Yes. They like it's like the impossible being Star Wars. Star Wars can never fail. It can never lose money. And it took three years. It's like, oh, fuck solo. Jesus. What a win. God, we lost money. And now we're at the point where this shows are starting to struggle. The shows have consistently got lower viewership. Ahsoka was dramatically lower viewership than a Obi-Wan, I believe, and it was dramatically lower from the premiere to the to the finale and the same sort of problems exist with Marvel. Like look, if the Marvels actually makes like 400 million or less, that's going to be that's going to be like pretty crazy as a thing at that point. There's no getting around it. There's no denying it like something that consistently made money for a decade is no longer reliable. That's that's going to be a big deal. That's going to I and especially with the fact that it's all lining up with like all of this turmoil that's happening within the industry itself with the writer strike and the actor strike. Yeah, projects getting canceled like the scaling back of productions. The fact that we've got a very saturated ecosystem in terms of streaming services. Not all of them are going to survive. I think it's going to be a tumultuous few years here. It's just become less predictable. The guaranteed success stories and the guaranteed you know, failures or like it's becoming harder. Who would have thought really that the far and away biggest success of the year, even though it was expected that Barbie was going to do well, but it'd be Barbie, the Mario movie and then Oppenheimer as like the top three most successful movies of the year beating out every everything that typically would succeed in this landscape. How is it that a bio pic a three whole long bio pic? Yeah, that much. I'm not even a goddamn gunshot in it either or or a lightsaber. No, that's no lightsaber all off. He didn't even get his lightsaber out. It's yeah, which I don't know. It's just it's it's interesting. It's an interesting time. And that's that, I suppose. Dex Dex DeFab. Is that going to be the Bobble's eFab or is the one after that? Oh, by the I I looked at it says here that eight hundred sixty three thousand households to households tuned into Ahsoka's season finale across a five day period in comparison, the Mandalorians season three finale earlier this year had one point five million, which is already down from what Mando used to be the numbers on season three were disappointing. So that's a huge drop interesting and relevant considering that Mando season one and two were on a platform that at the time had way less people subscribe to it as a proportion of the people who are subscribed to Disney plus it decreases as well, which feels relevant. You know, but yes, when's the models out? It's out this week. So next week will be the models of we're doing it the week that it comes out. What day will be next week? Like I don't know. It depends which country you're in, right? But I think America, the UK. Well, I think it comes out Thursday over here. So in a few days, it is Friday for me. Damn. Oh, damn. All right. So that's not fun for me. Well, what do you do? Do you want to do it the week later? We should probably do it on the 11. No, I think you know. Yeah, we can do we can we do. It's all right. I don't need to sleep. You know, whatever you want, it's we could do it. Well, I can't. It'll be exciting. All right. Bring me rags. Do you want to tell anybody anything in the nice little chat before we before we head off? Thanks for being here. Thanks for watching us talk about Disney, their rise, their fall, all the the goaded great fire peak stuff, bro. We really appreciate you tuning in. Watch any FAP listening to us with all of our all of our words. Sentences. Thank you very much. Oh, gosh, I've been watching some of them. Some of them got some pretty good memes. Pretty good memes this episode. Oh, I'm not going to lie. I've been keeping an eye on them in the discord. Some pretty good stuff. Some of them I don't understand, but a lot of them are pretty good. So there you go. Thanks. I'm just I'm working. I'm working on lucky working on. Yeah, I'm working. All right, that's it. That's all I got for you. I am currently sorting out the copyright protections and just finalizing that war movie arc that if everything works will start on January 1st of 2024 and you will be provided 14 EFAP movies across the year. And if everything goes smoothly, I talked about this like a year ago. We will finally be in a position where EFAP movies is just a regular thing. It's relatively reliable that you guys can all get all kinds of different movies and all kinds of different arcs. We're hoping this is the beginning of it. We just got some work to get done. The Halloween arcs already been sorted out for next year. I'm not like edited but recorded and there's still some extra surprises. We're planning one that's going to be before this year is out that I think you guys are going to love that we're actually doing more of tomorrow. Well, today for me technically, but yeah, yeah, and of course just work in general continues. So thank you so much for joining us. You guys were passionate for this episode. I'll say that much. What a journey we took you on articles and screenshots of forum posts and you guys were interested in that crazy. Hooray. Yeah, it was good times. Thanks for keeping this company. Thank you very much of course for the kind donations. I've got we've recorded several. I'm going to get them out, you know, paste out a bit. Yes, I'll be streaming more Robocop. Robocop is awesome. From just a five hours I've played already. I've been wanting to play more of it, but you fuckers won't let me play a game offline. I got to continue on stream. Otherwise you won't know the story. Anyway, it's been some it's been some fun. You've been peak chat. You've been fire. You've been fire. Boom. Yeah, you've been bro. So bro word but for now cooking peak peak sleep or peak peak over peak stream. Yes, big sleep. Bye. Yes. So what it is. Thanks so much. Yeah, everybody. We'll see you. Yeah. See you later, everyone. Bye bye bye bye bye. Doodle Lou.