 Hello, thanks for joining us. Another episode of the non-profit show, Julia and I are thrilled to have this power week, non-profit power week with Fundraising Academy. And today is one of my favorites, Muhi Kwaja, to talk to us from Fundraising Academy. And he's here to share with us about discovering your donor needs and how you can best listen to what they're sharing with you. So before we jump into these questions to ask your donors, Julia and I want to remind you who we are. Julia Patrick, hello, so good to see you again. Julia serves as the CEO of the American Non-profit Academy. I get to have fun each and every day alongside Julia, serving as the co-host. I'm Jarrett Ransom, your non-profit nerd CEO of the Raven Group. And we are honored to have the continued support of our amazing presenting sponsors. So I'm going to give a shout out to Bloomerang, American Non-profit Academy, Fundraising Academy at the National University, Non-profit Nerd, your part-time controller, staffing boutique, and the non-profit thought leader. Do yourself a favor, check these companies out. They are doing great work to help you do your great work. They exist truly to help you forge your mission in, around and throughout your community. So please do check out these presenting sponsors. And if you missed any of our previous episodes, episodes, or you want to get back and listen to what Muhi is sharing with us today, you of course can listen to any of our previously recorded ones on Roku, YouTube, Amazon Fire TV, as well as Vimeo. And if you're a podcast listener, go ahead and queue us up there too. You can listen to the non-profit show wherever you stream your podcast. So today's guest is not a new face, our voice with us, but one of our favorites, Muhi Kwaja. And today he's joining us from Guatemala. So welcome to you, our friend. Thank you so much. What a pleasure to be here. And happy to be representing the Fundraising Academy today. You know, I love the things that you share with us, but I think I love even more where you're sharing your knowledge with us from, because you kind of, for me, Muhi reinstilled the notion that this cause selling cycle that Fundraising Academy teaches and really navigates us can be done from anywhere. And that's a really powerful lesson. Because I think sometimes we think, oh, we, you know, we have to be in a certain situation and we have to have control. But yet I've been learning from you that we don't. Do you think that's fair? You know, I definitely believe that is fair and true. And I think a lot of people, like I'm very blessed to be working remotely. So taking the principles that I've learned over the last 13, 14 years, and being able to share them with others who are passionate about their missions, I think that's the best part. So, you know, I would love to be doing this in a classroom setting in a webinar face to face with people. But that's just, you know, how our world has adapted over the last few years. And I'm grateful for the opportunity to be traveling and learning so much about myself and pushing myself through this growth. And hopefully, what happens from that is I become a stronger advocate for my clients. I become a stronger advocate for the people that rely on me because I can then take care of myself that much more through these travels. So I see it benefiting all around. Amazing. I love that message. And I just think it's so, it's so realistic for where we are and where we're going. And with the fundraising cause selling cycle, it's just such a fascinating linkage that I would have never, ever thought of. And so before we get into like the questions and the navigating this process, help us to understand where you fit. We're talking about face to step four, need discovery. If you can share with us what that means. Yeah, definitely. I like to think of need discovery as the heart of the cause selling cycle. This is where you want to ask those fundamental questions and really practice active listening. And what that will allow you to do is discover what matters most to your prospect and donor. We're going to be uncovering a whole bunch of questions that will uncover underlying motivations. And we're only going to cover a few questions, but there's so many more that you can learn in our online portal, which we'll talk about in the end as well. But these questions really drop into three categories, personal questions, and these are used to better understand your prospect and what they care about on a personal level. We also have philanthropic centered questions and how they like to be engaged or treated as a donor. And then we have cause specific questions, but to learn about what the impact they want to have through their philanthropy is. And by looking into these three different areas for the cause selling cycle and the discovery, you'll be able to better understand what your donor is trying to engage you in with their support. I love that you put it into like the three buckets. Yeah, I shift my brain. Does it to you, Jared? I do too. And I'm looking back because yesterday's guest was Pearl Hogan and this entire week, you know, really stacks on top of one another. So movie alluded to there's going to be some questions and it's really about, you know, listening to your donor, which I love. And it's a great reminder because oftentimes we get nervous and we start talking and talking and talking. We try to fill that void. But start us off, movie with sharing some questions that we might want to ask our donor when it comes to their personal giving. Yeah, definitely. So when you look at the three different types of questions and these personal questions, these first two examples right here and really at the base of it, like trying to figure out what it is, what that they want to solve in the world, like what are they most passionate about and why and really allowing them to say it in their own words. So these are like open-ended questions. These are fantastic to get the ball rolling, you know, aside from, oh, hey, how's your day been? Like, this is a more direct and poignant, open-minded, get you thinking, have your first sip of coffee and ready for the day to answer type of question. And that's what you really want to know. You want to get down under that surface level of the donor. What motivates them? What are they passionate about? So I love that first question. You know, what comes to your mind when you when you see that first question as well? Yeah, you know, for me, it always thinks about, you know, I tomorrow is National Nonprofit Day and I always, you know, like to ask someone, like, what are you most passionate about? Because we have nine main sectors within the nonprofit, you know, community. And for some, you know, it's animal welfare for others, it's social justice. And so really just looking at what that looks like, there's so many questions. But to get someone to talk about what they're passionate about, I think just opens Pandora's box. It's really interesting. Moji, when you, when you haven't, you have another question here and it's, how would you describe your personal mission? And I'm wondering, when you've asked this question, are people shocked or surprised or do they have an answer? Do they know the answer? Like, what's been your experience with this question? Yeah, well, the reason why I love this question is because previously we had talked about Ikigai in one of the other episodes that I was a guest on. And really, this leads in beautifully to that. So if you're unfamiliar with Ikigai, it's a Japanese concept around the purpose of life. And the reason why I love this question so much is because it gives people a chance to think of, like, even if they haven't thought about it in this context, it really allows them to strategize around all the charitable giving they've done, all the volunteering they've done, all the things that make them happy in life. And what is that weaving back together? So hopefully, you know, definitely get a lot of surprised, oh, that's a good question, or oh, I haven't really thought much about that recently, or like things like that. So you get these questions that really help percolate all these feelings that the donors have and their underlying reason with what motivates them to get. And these are some key questions to help reveal that. I was hoping you would bring up Ikigai. And yes, that is, it was a wonderful conversation that Mui and I had several months ago. But again, you can find all of these recordings. And so for, to bring that in, as you said, to weave that into your, you know, your personal, you know, mission is fantastic. How else might we ask these questions to really get the donor to talk so that we can listen? Are there some other questions that you're, you know, you really guide through? Oh, definitely. And this one is really interesting of, like a family slogan, right? I know it's silly, but the one that comes to mind is like Game of Thrones and like a Lannister always repays his debts, right? Like we have this idea of like this old system of like, you know, think of like a family crest and like the colors that represent it and the slogan that's with it. But like, should we bring that back? Is that a way to like inherit a legacy and like a lifelong attitude of pride for a family and the good that they do in society? So yeah, like I think that's a really interesting question. It gives me a lot of thought, a pause to think about that as well. And I don't know, maybe by the end of the show, I'll have a family slogan. I was going to ask if you had one. I don't, but Julia, I'm curious. I'm on it. I'm going to work on it because, you know, I think it's really an interesting concept. We talk about this with our, with our nonprofits, you know, have a 12 word statement that you can share about what your mission is. Well, why don't we do that with our families so we can teach our children or remind them or ourselves or mates, you know, how. So I'm really fascinated by this and I'm going to work on that movie. I really am. Another question that you asked is what type of legacy would you like to leave and be remembered for how do people respond to that when you ask that of potential donors? Well, most commonly what I've heard is that, you know, they, they've made an impact in the areas that they care about that they've been kind to others that they've been remembered in a positive way. And really at the end of the day, like other than our actions and the way that we make people feel like what are they going to remember about us, right? So hopefully you have those stellar examples of people who went above and beyond and, and really lived life to the fullest. But did they do that with their time? Did they do that with how they made you feel always being available, a gentle smile when you needed it? Like, that's what I hear most when it comes to philanthropic giving in particular, knowing that the support they gave helps somebody's life a little make it a little easier, right? Whether it was to support programs for after school activities or to provide a meal to a family who didn't have access to one or disaster relief and all of these things that we are so passionate about. I think at the end of the day, it's did that gift make a difference? Did it support a mission? Did it make someone's life a little bit better? Wow, it's it's fascinating because those are very emotional answers. Yeah, I am curious how you've seen, you know, these donor conversations move in this digital space, right? Like whether it's picking up the phone, not meeting so much in person, you know, we've shared with our audience, you've been traveling internationally. How are these questions achievable in a one-to-one be a video component? Good question. Yeah, no, it's been my lifeline. You know, I've still been having donor meetings a few times a week for American Muslim Community Foundation and working with families to distribute their charitable giving through donor advice funds. So technology has been so critical in all of that and to be able to have a video conversation and still read the room and see the motion and feel it, you know, if it wasn't for that, it'd be a lot more difficult. And of course, some people just want to have a quick phone call and that's their preference, but really go base off as a preference of the donor. Like how do they want to be engaged and what's the best method for that donor? Some is just like email back and forth and that's their preferred method of communication. And others want that more handheld white glove service of being taken care of and heard and listened. And as much as we need to be listening, they also want to be heard, right? So it's like that perfect fit of listening while asking these particular questions of what they want to accomplish through their charitable giving. Yeah. Now, I have a bump to Jared's question. As you are, you know, working remotely, Kevin, our executive producer says we need to start saying instead of work from home, work from anywhere, you know, opening that up, you know, WFA instead of WFH. How are your donors responding to you? Are they saying, oh, well, when you get back home, we'll talk. Or are they saying, yeah, we can still have these generative discussions with these big questions in this environment? Yeah. You know, I let all of my donors know that I was going to be gone for four months and that I was still there for them as they needed. So although I wasn't going to be physically in an office or back in San Francisco and, you know, all of our clients are across the entire country. So a lot of it wasn't face to face anyways. But knowing that they still had access to me as they needed, that we expanded our staff, we hired an executive director, we hired a donor manager, a nonprofit manager, to support them as well. And I decreased my hours. I went from full time down to 10 hours a week with American Muslim Community Foundation. So there were a lot of interesting ways that we supported this entire shift. So now they can rely more on our other staff, but I'm still there as they need. And I can still generate new business, new donor advice funds, work on the donor relationship management aspect. And, you know, even in this time like Ramadan is usually the main time of fundraising for Muslim charities and Muslim donors, but we received a $50,000 gift in July. So in Ramadan is back in April. So it was all about maintaining the relationship, staying in touch with the donors, and showing them the impact that we're still having. And we're working on our Muslim philanthropy awards for November. So we have a lot of great stuff in the pipeline that we're all doing remotely, that the event's going to be virtual, that, you know, we're still catering to that ease of mission delivery through technology. So we're all excited. Yeah. Congratulations on that gift. I know that that's transformational will help so many, so many people within the community. Definitely. Now, one of the next donor questions, and this dovetails to what just happened to you, one of the next questions is how do you feel when you make a gift to an organization? Were you able to ask that $50,000 donor investor that question? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. He's our top donor. He and his wife, they support and really believe in our mission. They feel like we're one of the few people in the space pioneering Muslim philanthropy in the US. So he was very fortunate and has done well in his career and wanted to support other organizations. So when we talked to him about his favorite gift that he made, it was to other entrepreneurs and setting up a scholarship at a university that he was very fond of. So that was his favorite gift. But just knowing about that, even though it wasn't our charity or it wasn't, you know, our organization, we still got to learn and peel back a few layers on the donor and see what it was that was so inspiring about that gift. And for him, it was seeing people who grew up like him have the opportunity to still live the same life that he did and by providing them with scholarships and making sure that they had an opportunity to be successful and change their family trajectory from not being able to afford education to having one. Fantastic. What a great opportunity to hear from the donor side how that gift makes them feel. This next question, you know, I've got a, I can't wait to hear. I just can't wait to hear what you say, but have you ever made a gift and regretted it? And then the question is why? So how do you ask this of a donor and what are some responses that maybe you have received? Yeah, I'll share an example of an organization that later came out to have not the best HR policies and it was a small team. It was a relatively small organization. They'd been doing community work for about 15 years. And then a few employee, disgruntled employees had quit and started a whole campaign about shutting light, whistleblowing and shutting light on the HR practices and what the ED and founder had made them go through and like emotional distress and all of these things. And it was a well-respected, reputable organization. But once that came out, a lot of donors felt like they could have been putting their resources elsewhere and that they had lost the trust of the leaders in that organization. So I think one of the things around this is trying to get a good sense of who it is in the leadership that you're supporting. Talk to the staff about how they feel before making a gift, if that's a concern for you. And then looking into, there were never any concerns about fiduciary responsibility and how the money was spent, but it was more so knowing that the staff members who reported to these respected leaders were not being respected themselves. Great example. And I can imagine that that's happening so much, especially in light of social injustice right now. It's almost like being silent is your decision. And I see how this might be a regretful action of some donors, if they've been a loyal contributor to an organization and they just were called off guard by maybe the practices that were taking place, like you just shared in this example. So I can imagine that sometimes that happens, there's 1.8 million nonprofits that are registered in the US. And so while we're not often thinking of competitors, we are competing for dollars. We're competing for that trust and that loyalty from our donors. And these business practices can make very, very big impact. So thank you for that example. One of the things that we want to finish up with is to get your comments on questions that kind of evoke a sense of stewardship, communication. One of the things is, what are you asking that donor? What are you looking for in a relationship with our organization? What does that look like? Because that's kind of a big question, right? Yeah. And this is hopefully getting to the fact of like, do they want to volunteer? Are there opportunities for them to engage in your mission? How do they want to be recognized and stewarded for the gift that they make? So these are all key questions that have like listening cues for you to then be like, aha, you know, so that's the main reason I think why this question exists is because, you know, you may have a plan of action for your donor relationship, but if you don't ask them what they want, you'll never know. So it's really important. And some people might say, I only have a capacity to make gifts right now. But others might be ready for an advisory committee or a board position or being coming a volunteer or being able to host something for your organization. So there's a lot of different ways that the answers to this question can help point you in the right direction to build a relationship with the donor or prospect. I love that because when I read this question, I didn't think of all that. I mean, it didn't seem like, you know, how multifaceted it could be by asking that question. I think there's, you know, a lot, a lot of things that we can get through these questions. We also heard yesterday from Pearl, you know, how have other organizations recognized you? What are ways in which you wish, you know, we could also do the same as these other organizations that you're supporting or have supported? What worked? What didn't work? And learning about, you know, how they prefer to be stewarded is all part of the cycle. Yeah, definitely. And, you know, being a major gift officer, philanthropy officer, director of development, any of these roles is somewhat being a little detective as well. You know, it's saying, oh, I noticed that this donor's name was listed in the YMCA in the $5,000 to $10,000 category. Good to know. They're only giving us $2,500. So it's sussing out the other places that they give to. And one of the questions that I would add here, one of my favorite questions, what are your top three charities that you love to support? Oh, good question. And then ask if yours isn't one of those top three where it is in the list and how can it become a stronger affinity for you? So, you know, these are all questions geared at figuring out and listening about what it is they feel about your organization, why they want to continue supporting your organization, how they want to be engaged, and that's why active listening is such a critical part of this. That is a bold question. And I love it. It makes me a little nervous. Yeah. But I think it's, it's the right question. And I think it also, to your point, maybe it kind of cuts through some of the noise. Definitely. On both sides, right? Yeah. Yeah. Very interesting. And it allows you to get to know the donor a little bit more based on their mission and their life purpose. And if you see a connection in those three organizations, it's maybe centered towards health-related causes, or oh, it's maybe centered towards education. Right. And sometimes it's going to change through the phases of the donor's lives. Maybe they have kids in school and they want to support the PTO really well. Maybe their kids are now out of elementary school and are at their alma mater and they're alumni, so they're giving big to their university. So it could change in every phase of their life, but at least for that moment, you know what those top three charities are. That's a great point. Well, Mohi, you have been a great voice to share with us on Nonprofit Power Week with Fundraising Academy at National University. I've always have learned, I haven't really been on air with you. This is only the second time, but I've watched all the archives where you've been on with Jared. And I've learned a lot from you, and I love your point. Thank you. It's really good. It's a calming presence, and it's logical. And I am such a fan of the fundraising cost selling cycle, but I kind of feel like you give us a little bit of a difference to it as well. And so it's really been a lot of fun to get to know you. And we have you coming back with us for a lot. So be prepared, my friend. You're not ridden me yet. Good. Yeah. Check out fundraising-academy.org. And you're going to be able to find the cost selling cycle information, a lot more information, many more questions. So much, so much, virtually all of their content is free. You just have to register and get on there and start learning and connecting with the fundraising academy folks. Before we let Mohi go, we want to also let everyone know that Fundraising Academy is starting up another cohort. It's a 10-week Accelerate. It's actually a certificate program. I believe Hannah Berger is going to be leading this one. It starts in September. But the deadline for application is August 26th. This isn't just something you can sign up for. You do have to apply because they're building a cohort of folks across the country. And so they want to make sure that this is a good fit for everyone because it really is an intensive. So check that out. You can get more information at fundraising-academy.org and learn what they've got going on because it's a really amazing opportunity. Again, I'm Julia Patrick. I've been joined by my favorite non-profit nerd herself, Jared Ransom. Thank you so much, Jared, for being with us. And we also want to thank all of our presenting sponsors for this very special non-profit Power Week, Blumerang, American Non-profit Academy, Your Part-Time Controller, Non-profit Nerd, The Ray Van Group, National University Fundraising Academy, Staffing Boutique, and Non-profit Thought Leader. Without these folks, we wouldn't be here each and every day. So we say thank you, thank you ever so much to them. Muhi, you are a treasure. I can't wait to work with you more. Thank you. We are so excited that you would join us from this exotic, fabulous place in Guatemala. We are super jealous. Hey, Jared, we need to take this show on the road. I know, but I mean, I like coffee, too. So just hint, hint, Muhi, if you're picking up coffee. You got it. I'm telling you, I think we need to like really, you know, take our show and reach out with folks- Let's do it. Around the world. Wow. I've learned a lot today and it's been a lot of fun. Hey, as we end every episode, we want to remind everyone, ourselves, our viewers and our listeners, to stay well so you can do well. Thanks so much. We'll see you back here tomorrow.