 It's a beautiful spring day finally in Atlanta, Georgia, and I want to welcome you to the very first FECAST, your source for thoughtful commentary on current events from the Foundation for Economic Education. I am here. My name is Richard Lawrence, and I'm with our esteemed panel of content writers, editors, and producers starting with Mary Ann March over here to Dan Sanchez and then Brittany Hunter. And because it's our very first FECAST, I wanted to give them a chance to actually introduce themselves to you. So we're gonna start with Mary Ann. Who are you? What do you do at FEE? And why are you here? Well, I am the social media manager, and I'm also contributing writer, and I'm passionate about individual rights and economic freedom, and I write sometimes about pop culture and other things like that. Very well, I might say. Thank you. What are you working on now? It's a top secret. It's a top secret. Okay. All right. I won't even ask again. Dan, what are you doing here? What do you do at FEE? I'm the director of content at FEE, and I'm also the editor of the website. And so a lot of the articles that we'll be talking about in this show are straightfromfee.org. I love economic education. I love explaining economic concepts, and so I'm so grateful to be part of FECAST. You are the oracle of various nuggets of wisdom that people around the office like to ask you about. So it's going to be very cool having you on the podcast. In Brittany, last but not least. Last but not least. I am Brittany Hunter. I'm a writer and I'm an editor here at FEE. One of the things I really like to specialize in is making free market economics both applicable and exciting to millennials. And I guess now Gen Z is there up and coming. One of the ways I did that was I live blogged FA High Ex Road to Serfdom. She took a lot of energy, but I think it helped, you know, help other millennials understand why they need to be reading these important books. So yeah, I'm at FEE because there's no other place for me. I love FEE. I love Liberty. And this is all those things. Your Road to Serfdom sort of live blog series was pretty important because the Road to Serfdom is one of those books. I think all of you will agree that everyone claims to have read, but never has it actually read. I was one of those people until recently. All right. Well, there you go. It's proven that you have read it. Yes. Well, so we are here today, like I said, it's a beautiful spring day. It also just so happens to be the day after the dreaded tax day. That whooshing sound you hear is not just our overpowered HVAC, but it is all of your hard earned cash going up to Washington, D.C. so it can be meted out by the politicians and Congress and the presidency and all the rest. And we're sitting here the day after tax day. But it's actually tax day redux because yesterday the IRS website had a bit of a blunder. Well, a bit of a blunder. Yeah. Right. Two or three a.m. Right when everybody's rushing to get their payments in on time so they don't get penalized. The site crashed. Big surprise. I think this happened to what healthcare.gov as well. So this is not unexpected from the government. What is particularly funny about this is when they told you when it would be back up, they gave the date December 31st in the year nine thousand nine hundred and ninety nine. So sorry about that. But the government is doesn't like a longer due date. That is true. Another thing. And by that time, we'll either be dead or half robot. So for us, I'll be on the cloud. You'll be on the cloud, but they were very unaccommodating, too. They were just like, oh, by the way, you still have to pay like right now. The last line said, oh, by the way, a payment still do. We don't know how you're going to do that. But they did end up extending it a day, though. But they pretty much had to at that point because the malfunction happened from early in the morning until into the early evening, I believe. But then it kind of extends the pain because it's like we have another tax day. Like, yeah, it was already extended because if you remember, tax day is supposed to be April 15th, but there's a niche holiday in D.C. Emancipation Day that only D.C. celebrates. And because of that, the IRS has asked the tax day to be pushed back because heaven forbid they have to work overtime. So not just tax day one, not just tax day two, but tax day three. And it reminds me of that one episode of Futurama where the head of Richard Nixon is talking in front of a bunch of people and he points to the tax monster who's like this big, praying, man is looking thing. And he goes, see on April 15, folks. Still, even in the future, even in the future, even the year 3000. Well, and it's like becoming tax week. And it kind of reminds me of like Christmas season, how it just keeps extending, extending for the more of the year. You can blame Coca Cola for that. I hear and it also reminds me of how long it takes to get into the year before you end up earning more than what you have to pay out. And so it just keeps growing. Well, it also is important to note just how much compared to the necessities of life we're actually paying in taxes. And Mary Ann, you and I were talking a little bit earlier about a graphic that the Tax Foundation recently put out, which was actually surprising to me. Yes, this, this hurt my feelings a little bit. They released a graphic showing that we spend more in taxes, lumping together federal, local and state. We spend more in taxes than on housing, clothing and food. And I've got some numbers for you. $1.8 trillion in state and local taxes, $3.39 trillion in federal taxes for a grand total of $5.19 trillion, which is 30% of the national income, which is incredible, especially when you compare it in context with those necessities. Like how in the world are you supposed to balance how you spend when that much of your own hard earned income is being demanded from a third party, again, all the way up in Washington, DC, controlled by bureaucrats that are basically not you and have no idea how to spend your money better than you. Yeah, it's like you work so hard just to get a basic livelihood. And then once you get up to that point and then the government's like, by the way, you have to double that so that you can pay us the same amount. That is actually how this is the first year I feel like a grown up because I'm thinking like, oh, I actually had to hire an accountant. Yeah, only the first year we won't go into how old I am. But I really do feel like I'm penalized for being successful. This is, you know, here I am like doing well in my career. And the tax man is telling me that my reward is to give them everything in my soul. So it does feel a little the maximum is if you want less of something, tax it. So it's like, if you want less work, tax it. That's a good point. Yeah. And it always brings up the conversation of what makes a just tax system, right? So is it a taxation of income, which is productivity, which is something you want ostensibly, or is it a taxation of consumption, which is maybe a little bit different. It definitely is more voluntary voluntary. You actually select where you're patronizing and where you're purchasing goods. And so what would make a more just sort of tax scenario? And what in reality is good policy? Is it good policy to take 30 percent of someone's income and then redistribute it across the entire country? But of course, it has to go to D.C. first, and so they kind of have to skim their take of it as well. And not to be cynical. I mean, that is truly what happens. That is when money goes up to D.C., it's got to pay for that entire growth of that entire bureaucracy up there. And the interest on our how big is the national debt right now? I mean, we're going on 18, 19 trillion. It could be over twenty one trillion dollars right now, I believe so. Well, and that actually reminds me also speaking of of dollars and money, there's a hashtag happening and it's trending right now the day after tax day. And it is I'd like to be rich enough to, which by the way is a bit strange because that's a really long hashtag. So I don't know how you can fill in anything behind that substantively. But we were talking about this before before we went on and there's some pretty good gems in there. I'd like to be rich enough to. Well, one of them was I'd like to be rich enough to not pay taxes. Oh, I think it's the other way around. I don't know if it works that way. Yeah. And so you're you're wondering, OK, what's behind that? And so this person probably thinks that, oh, well, the rich, they get so many tax cuts and and so they if I was rich, then I wouldn't have to pay that much taxes. But actually the rich actually pay the majority of the taxes in this country. And so there were some other gems that we were talking about there, too. Some interesting Twitter hash or names as well. This great Twitter handle at Nacho baby daddy one. And he says that he would like to be rich enough today, a woman with all of her teeth. Oh, and again, dream big, I respect that. I think that's a noble goal. Yes. And there's no envy in that at all. And there might be in others. That's related to this one, too. I'd like to be rich enough to afford basic health care, housing and food. And so like if you don't have enough, all your teeth is because you can't afford basic dental care, for example. But also, again, it goes back to the fact that we have to pay more in taxes than we pay for our basic staples and food and housing and health care. And so again, it's people don't make that connection. I mean, this this hashtag is trending at the same time that people are forking out over all this money and taxes. And they don't really make the connection. Like how much all this taxation is keeping you from improving your life and connections being made. I also just noted that health care was not one of the things that was included in that list of necessities. So I wonder if health care was added to that. That would definitely exceed probably the take of the federal and state and local governments as well. I was going to say, but either way, it's either we're paying for it privately, which we would like, or the government's paying for it to things like Obamacare. So either way, we're losing out on that. You had one other tweet that might have made sense to mention here. It was kind of grim, but I think it's applicable. This was from at Dr. Crazy. I would like to be rich enough to fund research to find a cure for cancer. How much better would we be able to fund cures and dedicate money to health care if 30% of people's income wasn't going directly to taxes? It's a question. And it's one that will hopefully have a chance to talk about a little bit later, as well as in later editions of the fee cast. But for now, we're going to take a quick break so that you can hear a little bit more about what's happening here at fee. So we'll be right back after a message. One year ago, over 700 students, scholars, philanthropists and business leaders from five continents gathered in Atlanta for a brand new one of a kind event. FECON. But get ready, this year is going to be even bigger. At FECON, we celebrate inspiring entrepreneurs, innovators and wealth creators while helping you set your own path to personal and professional success. And it was awesome all around. It's been like a vacation. It will become a must attend event next year as well. I'm not going to wait for my invitation. I'm going to invite myself, I guess. So with FECON 2018 fee is taking the conference experience to a whole new level with eight incredible tracks, more than 50 jam packed sessions featuring over 100 electrifying speakers and vast networking opportunities. FECON 2018 is sure to offer an unforgettable experience for everyone. It's the must attend event this summer and it's all happening at the Hyatt Regency Hotel in beautiful downtown Atlanta from June 7th through 9th. Available tickets are going fast, so register now at FECON.org and find out how you can set your path and change the world. Welcome back to the FECAST. We were talking as we broke about sort of how it's actually a little funny that people are tweeting with a hashtag. I'd like to be rich enough to when there's very little, I guess, introspection about the fact that by tweeting that, they're already fairly wealthy in terms of historic context. If you have a computer, if you have access to the Internet and you're tweeting, you are among the very, very, very few in history that have ever been able to do such a thing. And I wonder if that's lost a little bit on those folks who are tweeting like that. I think so. I mean, I think if you ask those people, how much would you have to be paid to give that up, to give up that Internet connection, to give up all social media and to think of how people like John D. Rockefeller 100 years ago, we think of him as the wealthiest man of his era. That's right. And and you think, oh, wouldn't it be nice to to be like Rockefeller, like Jay-Z compares himself to Rockefeller in that. It's a little immodest, but OK, we can go with that for Jay-Z. I got a little panicky when you said do without Internet. No, no, not not my precious Internet. Yeah, so would would you, Mary Ann, give up the Internet for a million dollars for how long for for your life? No, a million. No, no, that's change. How about a billion for my life? It takes a little bit longer for her to think about that one. See, you don't have to think of it. You might actually be a billionaire in that regard. Well, I was thinking that maybe I will be a billionaire at some point in my life. Dan, I could be really shooting myself in the foot now. That's right. Opportunity costs will be another subject, eventually, that we will discuss here on the feedcast. So you mentioned John Rockefeller, and there's an article, actually, that I think is very popular on feed.org. And we'll have links to it underneath the video itself. And that is by Don Boudreau, a former feed president. And he talks all about really what wealth is, what being rich means. And he goes into a number of interesting little anecdotes, factoids about life in the beginning of the 20th century when John Rockefeller was effectively the first billionaire. Yeah, I think what hangs people up is that people think of wealth in relative terms. They don't think of it in absolute terms. But when you think about, OK, what is the day in the life like for you versus Rockefeller? What are the challenges that even he had to face? So, sure, he had a lot of personal assistance. But in terms of like the technology that that was available, health care, how bad health care was, how limited the social media communication, the fact that there was no internet, that that all these things that we take for granted in that air conditioning, internal plumbing, all these things that are so totally taken for granted today. When we talk about poverty, first of all, which most folks who might even be counted underneath the poverty line today have, not to mention, of course, all those other technology things that we were just discussing, but it's amazing. And there's a story in there that Don Boudreaux writes about where he talks about an accident on a tennis court, which absolutely astonished me. That's right. So another type of power elite level is imagining president, like wouldn't life be sweet if you were president? Well, Calvin Coolidge, he had a horrible tragedy in his life. You know, he was living just in the he was president in the 20s. And so it was just a few years after we're talking about Rockefeller like in 1916, like about 100 years ago. And his son was playing tennis. He got a blister. The blister got infected and health care was at a state at that time that he died, that he died from that. And it would be unheard of now to think of a blister. Right. Well, yeah. In fact, you hear your parents say, you don't cry over a blister or you're not. It's not the end of the world back then. It was the end of the world. I mean, it's amazing. And it really makes you think that when we think about wealth, it's not about little green pieces of paper or the decimals on the ATM screen. It's about what you can do with it. It's about being able to afford health care. That's exactly right. And I think what we were talking about with these tweets earlier. So many people get angry at rich people for being wealthy when really we should just be mad at poverty because that's the real problem. People with Lamborghinis aren't the problem. It's people who can't who can't afford to live, who have to make choices between their grocery carts and their medications. Right. And not necessarily that it's their problem either. But if you were going to focus your energy, don't focus it on the person with the Lamborghini. Focus it on the person who actually needs to have more in order to live and live well. And that whole notion of sort of human prosperity, that's entirely driven by an accurate definition of wealth. And I think it gets lost a lot when we talk about wealth inequality, income inequality, various other types of that, that are really important and important discussions these days. What is wealth? And that's kind of a fundamental question, I think, you know, not only when talking about Rockefeller and all that he had with all of his green pieces of paper, but also when we talk about ourselves today, because this is what matters. We are living in the present. What is wealth in the 21st century? I like to think, if you'll indulge me for a second, that wealth is pretty abstract. I think when you're explaining it, you can get into the nitty gritty. But wealth itself is your ability to request or demand in some cases things from other people that you cannot or don't want to do yourself. And that's pretty abstract because there are a lot of things that I know I don't want to do myself. But I also understand that by paying people, using the wealth that I have through the value that I've generated through whatever work I'm doing, that's the ability that I have. That creates the ability to ask others to help me out. And that's all about all these economic terms. We'll talk about all the time here on the show, compared to Advantage Division of Labor. It's kind of an abstract thing. But when you think about it, aside from money, it begins to make a little bit more sense. So it's almost purchasing power in a way. It's I have this amount of you know, I've worked X amount of hours. I have this and with that, I can go create more wealth by paying someone to do something else. Right. Absolutely. Which is another factor of it is through exchange, we create value. Yeah. Right. And just remembering that there are things that we can purchase now that didn't exist at all 100 years ago. It's kind of like you're saying it doesn't matter how rich Rockefeller is or was, excuse me, he couldn't buy the Internet right because the Internet wasn't there. So it doesn't matter. In a very real sense, wealth is about having choices. And we all have so many more choices than we used to. I love that. One of my favorite professors from school and a friend of fee, Dr. Anne Bradley, she likes to talk about wealth in the context of being able to say, no, thank you. When we're mad at Starbucks, we can say, no, thank you. I'll go to Dunkin Donuts or I'll put a cake up in my Keurig. And that's a powerful thing to be able to reject certain producers and providers and make another decision. Yeah, because that's another big difference between olden times and today is that before it was the high and mighty who were masters and it was the peasants who were the servants. But now, you know, someone might think of like the CEO of Starbucks as the high and mighty. But actually he, in a sense, is our servant. And that's that's why baristas are generally, you know, pretty friendly to you because because the customer is always right. And and because you have the choice of going somewhere else, if you don't like the way you're being treated at Starbucks. Although with Starbucks on every corner and some of our cities, it can sometimes be a little daunting to select between stores or go to the elusive caribou coffee that might not be down the road anymore. But like you said, the cake up still exists. And this reminds me a little bit of when some people will say, well, you know, I want to be my own boss. And I say, well, you know, you're not actually your own boss when you're your own boss because you've got a bunch of bosses. Every single person that you're working for is your boss. And your job as your own boss, if you're an entrepreneur, for example, is to keep getting more bosses. And that all goes to sort of the magic of the way the market process works. You have to continually create value for people and prove that you're worth it in order to have business continue to grow. So Starbucks did something really well by the fact that they have a store on almost every corner in New York, for example. Again, when you're thinking about what wealth actually is that you can think of dollar bills as sort of certificates of service that people are great to think about it, that they provided a certain degree of service that was valued such that they were given the purchasing power to then go and buy lots of different things. And so when you think about wealth and you think about how long it takes for you to afford the necessities of life. And before, you know, peasants would basically have to work all day long just to get by, just to just to get those necessities to eat out some meager meager living without any type time for leisure, without any time for rest. Right. No tweeting. Yeah, no time for tweeting and losing their teeth. Right. But but now the average worker is able to just, you know, couple hours here and there, and that takes care of the necessities of life. Then you have to another couple of hours to pay the taxman. And then everything else is for iPhones and iPads and just the amazing amenities that we have. Do you know what I like about that, I guess, metaphor? Is it remind me of like a relay race in a baton? Every time you're paying someone for a service, you're passing that purchasing power by creating wealth. You're saying, all right, it's your turn. What are you going to do with that? At what point is it so big after it's been passed between all those people that it becomes too heavy? It's just too heavy. The metaphor breaks down at that point. We won't go that far. That's fine. Well, so we'll talk a little bit more about wealth here in just a minute, but we're going to go to a quick break from the fee cast and we'll see you in a minute. Hi, everyone. I'm Anna Jane Perrell, and I am the program manager at the Foundation for Economic Education. We have an awesome program coming up for college students over Memorial Day weekend, and it is called the morality of capitalism. This is in partnership with the Clemson Institute for the Study of Capitalism, and it's going to be a three day program that covers a number of topics, philosophy, economics, politics, and exploring the intersection of all of those things as they relate to things like ethics, morality, and how those play out in trade. We have a number of amazing speakers, really, really cool activities. You're going to get to meet students from all across the country. We have international students coming in for this program, and you're going to get to collaborate and network with people that are also interested in these ideas. If you're a newcomer to philosophy, if you're a newcomer to economics, and you're just academically curious, then we invite you to come and change your life. We are still accepting applications now through April 30th. You can visit fee.org slash Clemson. That's fee.org slash Clemson to apply today. See you there. Welcome back to the fee cast. We were talking while we were in break about this latest development with Starbucks and how it kind of relates to what we were talking about, where if you choose not to patronize a place, then you have that power to teach them how to treat you. And this whole incident recently at Starbucks where two black men were arrested just for hanging out, waiting for a friend asking to use the bathroom is now causing this huge PR disaster for this company. And so it really opens them up to competition that might want to take advantage of that. That's a beautiful thing. It is a beautiful thing. And so maybe there will be more caribous popping up around powerful regulator as much as the consumer. That's right. Power of the purse purchasing power once again. Yep. Keeps coming back to that. So going back to the question of wealth. I think it's a bigger question of how societies themselves become wealthy. And the question of sort of the time that humanity has spent in a wealthy sort of situation also comes to mind. And I know there's a lot of work being done on this. In fact, there was recently a piece on feed out or by Marion Tupi entitled humanity's remarkable economic progress revealed in one chart, which is a lot to ask for from a single lowly chart. But what is that article all about? It is about the Madison project database. And it tracks GDP per person going all the way back to year one, which is year one AD, 2000 years of progress based on GDP per capita per person. That's right. And it looks like a hockey stick, because it's negligible growth through most of that history. And of course, if you extend the hockey stick further, it's still negligible all the way, you know, back to the advent of humanity. And then something amazing happened. Some somehow the hockey stick went straight up. And what year was that? That was in it was around 1900. A little bit before. So in Britain, it was beginning in the late 1700s. And then it was imported into France and to other countries around the 1830s. And so when the industrial revolution came into the through the rest of Europe, then that's when you have the kind of growth that these countries, it had taken it, you know, quintupled hundreds of years before that the kind of growth that they've had. It's amazing when you see this chart, as Dan was saying, it's flat. It's flat for years and years, centuries, and then this great spike. And we are the beneficiaries of that spike in GDP and that spike in prosperity. And we tend to take it for granted. I mean, just like we're tweeting about needing to be richer, wanting to be richer, we just take for granted the fact that we live in a place where for the most part, not to diminish the fact that poverty and homelessness and hunger still exist. But for the most part, we live in a society where those basic needs, again, like we were discussing earlier, are mostly things that we don't have to worry about day to day. We don't have to eke out that meager existence of a surf on a field in central Europe. Back in the 1700s, we actually have the ability to make something of ourselves beyond just sustaining ourselves. Yeah. And I think a big part of that, and it's hard for us to see that especially, especially here where we do have a lot of liberties being taken from us. But when you look at this, especially the chart in historical context, we are freer than we've ever been. We're not surfs on someone else's land, you know, in central Europe. And that in itself is pretty incredible. But wait a second, a lot of people might say, well, you know, Brittany, that's nice for you to think that we're not surfs any longer, but we still got to go to work. Voluntary, you don't have to go to work. I mean, but if you want to get these things that we're talking about, the point there is you get to choose what you want to do, where before it was, you have to be a surf because you weren't born. You have to be digging up potatoes. Exactly. And now it's, I get to be here at fee if I'm willing to work hard enough to be here at fee. That's a really cool. That's freedom in itself. It's value both directions. I think it's still kind of difficult for people to see. It's not the only the virtue of work, right? I mean, because a lot of people would say work is a virtuous thing. And I actually think it is, but it's also the value of, like you said, being able to select the vocation that you choose to spend your life doing and doing it so that you can actually create a lot more leisure time for yourself as well. And I think it's fascinating just how out of context, the world in which we inhabit and the discussions we have tends to be, right? I mean, wealth inequality, I think you can go back and you can see huge wealth inequality back in those times when people were just kind of digging up potatoes and, you know, dying at 30 years old. What was it? It was that life is nasty, brutish, and short. Who said that? Thomas Hobbs. Thomas Hobbs said that. And that was life for centuries and millennia until the modern era. And we didn't just stumble onto the modern era. There were so many ideas that contributed to us building the modern era. And people would say, well, this Dickinsonian place that you described back in England, back in the Industrial Revolution, that's hellish. On the other hand, you got to look at all the different advances. Not only that that created at the time, not for everybody, there's no illusion that we're making that everyone benefited from that, but that it's set up for us to have today. And I just, I think that perspective is something that we lose in a lot of these conversations. Yeah, and I think it really helps someone live a happier life when you do count your blessings. When you recognize how unique this little window of history that you're living in is. And thinking about how how it really was like an extremely long hockey stick, and that you are this little sliver that you happen to be living in. And you asking yourself, what caused that? People call it the great divergence, right? Like what caused such a seemingly miraculous thing to happen? And when it very first started, one of the people who asked that question was the the founder of economics, Adam Smith. And this was his answer. He said, Adam Smith. That's right. Little else is requisite to carry a state to the highest degree of opulence from the lowest barbarism, but peace, easy taxes, and a tolerable administration of justice. And so that's what he's saying is that the government doesn't need to stimulate things or protect the economy. That at most it should just keep the peace. And however, few taxes is necessary to do that and to maintain courts and justice. And letting enterprising people solve problems for themselves. And just that that is how people lift themselves up out of poverty. And that's what that's what was different starting in the late 18th century in in England is that for the first time in human history, people were able to do that. People were able to accumulate capital. People were able to migrate into whatever jobs that they wanted to, regardless of whatever guild that they were part of or whatever cast they were part of. And that's why you had this historical miracle. It was the birth of the middle class. No such thing existed until the beginnings of these commercially induced and supported efforts that people were making. And that was because of those ideas that you were just discussing. This moral philosopher up in Edinburgh is talking about these fundamental ideas that are required in order for a society to be prosperous. Justice, low taxes, and an easy administration and a good administration, right? That only protects the necessary things. Right, exactly. Does what it needs to do and lets other people create those relationships that would be beneficial between themselves. And when those things are in place, you don't have to guide people to do it. Left to our own devices, we will divide our labor and specialize and spontaneous order! That's another topic that we should get into. Maybe the next episode we should talk about that, because that's an awesome idea. But what's beautiful is that, you know, Adam Smith was trying to answer a question that had just happened, kind of almost as an accident of history that the Industrial Revolution was just starting out in England. But then because he was able to figure out why that happened, his work led to changes in policy. And a change in philosophy first, that led to change in policy towards a lot of Europe having a free trade and laissez-faire policy. And that, in turn, created another spike in human prosperity that eventually spread through much of the world. Ideas matter, and it just so happened that a lot of those ideas really did emerge out of that part of the world because of Smith and the way that he was influential in getting rid of such things as the Corn Laws in England, getting rid of protectionist barriers, which are in the news again and we're talking a lot about and on feed.org. We've got a lot of articles about tariffs and various other mercantilist type of policies that prevent people from trading peaceably with other people. And it's so interesting how those ideas keep coming back to us. Constant battle. It's like a boomerang. It's like we try to get rid of these ideas by saying, well, you know, it's okay to not make everything here in our own house or our own community or our own country. It's okay to do that. It's okay to rely on the division of labor and comparative advantage, and yet we always think that we're poorer for that. But Adam Smith was the first person to really begin to explain in a coherent way that there were actually gains from trade. There were actually gains from not having to do everything yourself. You could use those little green pieces of paper to get people to do those things that you don't want to do or that you can't do. Or that you're not good at doing. Right. There are plenty of things that I would be lousy at. Most of them start with hand-eye coordination. And it's a benefit to my life that I can pay somebody to do those things. And then the person that I pay to fix my plumbing or to help me with any number of things, then they happily accept my money. And it's win-win. We both step away a little richer for the experience. And it's amazing how we can forget that the defaults of humanity is poverty. Poverty and nastiness. And when you have trade you get that idea that John Stossel would call the double thank you. Where it's not only me saying thank you to the barista, but also the barista saying thank you to me because we both created value. You were going to say something, Dan. Oh well I was just wondering if Marianne was angry at like her hairdresser for stealing her own job. That she should have that job of dressing her own hair. No. No. Not angry. In fact, delighted. In the same in the same regard we shouldn't be angry at the people of China for producing clothes and producing cheap electronics for us. Right. They do these things not out of sort of feeling of warm heartedness to us, but because it is beneficial for us to buy these things from them because we create this wealth. It's amazing. And it's amazing to kind of imagine within the world we inhabit that these ideas exist and they're working all the time. So I hope in many many future episodes that we're going to be able to talk about these ideas and many more within the context of current events. I think it's going to be really exciting. So I can't wait for next week on the feedcast and I hope you'll join us again next week on feed.org. All these articles are listed plus bunch more. You'll love it. Visit us today and we hope to see you next week. Bye-bye.