 Live from Santa Clara in the heart of Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE, covering Cloud Foundry Summit 2017. Brought to you by the Cloud Foundry Foundation and Pivotal. Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman joined by my co-host, John Troyer, we're here at theCUBE's coverage of Cloud Foundry Summit 2017, we're the worldwide leader in live tech coverage. Happy to welcome to the program, Kim Bannerman, who does developer relations at Google, recently to Google, and Ben Caps, who's an analyst with Diversity Limited. Thanks so much both for joining us. Thanks for having us. Thank you. So Kim, you were up on the main stage yesterday and today, emceeing the event, really appreciate you joining us. Why are you at this event? Why is this event important for developers? So I got involved with Cloud Foundry before there was a foundation. So this has been my community for almost three years now, and I'm not one of the oldie oldie people, but I feel like these are my people. Yeah, we had James on before, so. Yeah, so you know. So it's important to developers because it helps them move faster. I started out my career in consulting, and so one of the big, heavy lifting items that we would always have to do for our customers would be building a custom platform for an application. And so when I first heard about Cloud Foundry, shortly after it was launched into open source, that's really interesting to me, so. Ben, do I remember, right, is this the first time you've actually been at this event in person? Yeah, it's funny, so I've been covering Cloud Foundry, writing about Cloud Foundry since before it was called Cloud Foundry. Yeah, come on, Ben. You were one of those Clouderati people talking about Cloud Foundry. Cloud Foundry, that's right. You know, years about that stuff, so. Yeah, and it's bizarre. I remember when Heroku and Engine Yard were all that there was when it comes to pass. So I've been following the space, but I've never actually been to a Cloud Foundry summit, so it's awesome to be here and to kind of get a sense and vibe of the community, which is always a really important thing. All right, Ben, what's your take so far? What's your kind of overlay of the market? We're not talking about paths so much anymore, so what are we talking about? No, it's interesting, and just recently I wrote a post kind of, you know, a pining about the death or otherwise of paths. I think what we're seeing now is that really what Cloud Foundry is, is more than a path. It's really about a fabric, a control fabric, for a bunch of different modes of operating. And so from that perspective, it's been really great to be here seeing the new announcements. Obviously, Microsoft joining is a big deal, but things like Kubo, it really does position Cloud Foundry in this container, serverless world. Kim, we were joking with Chip when we had him on earlier. Talked about enterprise grade, and that means a salesperson goes in and the front of the C-level suite talking about digital transformation. How do you reconcile that with what you're hearing from developers? How do you have kind of the business and developers? Are they coming together more? Right, so I'll tell you this. If you see a message in tweets or collateral or a deck or a talk, and it kind of hits you wrong, I understand that you may not be the intended audience. So I think that serves a really, that will speak to a CTO level type of person. But increasingly nowadays, we're seeing enterprises saying, hey, don't call me enterprise. We're actually an internet company like you are, Google. We want to be like you. Don't call us this legacy old school. All these different connotations that are attached to enterprise. And really we're just talking about larger companies of 10,000 employees or above, right? So as far as like meeting in the middle, the new king makers, I love that book, Redmont, great people. We're going to have Steve O'Grady on later, so. Love them. I was seeing this happening when I started organizing user groups back in Atlanta in 2010 and 2011 where deals were happening, but used to happen and say, hey, I'm signing this, but you're going to have to live with it and I'm throwing it over the fence to my team and we're done. More and more, those folks are coming into EBCs, tech leads, architects, developers, systems, administrators, dev ops, whatever. So they're absolutely influencing the deal and they really do want to see it and try it and know that they've got a community behind them, supporting them before they agree. Kim, you've worked with a lot of different developers in your perspective, now at Google, and IBM was the last place. Yeah, and so sure, developers are going to be the new king makers, but they're having to choose between different platforms and the joke used to be at the front end, right? The web, HTML people, the great thing about JavaScript is there's so many frameworks to choose from, right? And they turn their hair out every year because there's a new set. Now the back end, right? The folks who are doing the orchestration and the distributed systems and all the stuff we're talking about here, they also have some choices to make and look at different architectures, look at different stacks. What do you see as the developers that you're talking with, how are they approaching this in this multi-cloud world that they're dealing with? Ben made a good point on Twitter earlier today about multi-cloud, it happens for multiple reasons. Someone said this is the reason and then Ben, I'll let him speak to that, I want to steal his thunder. But for me, it's different, we can say it from the product level, it's different use cases. But quite frankly, there are multitudes of various different types of developers doing various different types of applications inside of any given large customer. So you can, that's why you've seen Not To Chill. Google has partnered, we're offering, we're doing PCF, Google Roadshows kind of getting in with each other's customers because that's definitely a big use case that we keep seeing. And then we also have, you know, Container Engine that's run by Kubernetes. So it's just a matter of, you know, who your developers are. Google is big enough to embrace a lot of sets of developers. Absolutely, and it's not just about developers which is a big pet peeve of mine. You got to think about all my ops people too and everyone else that's keeping the ship running, so. Shout out to the ops people. Absolutely. Ben, so what was your comment on Twitter? Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I guess there's a couple of different options and we've sort of been told that multi-cloud, the value prop is that you've got a workload running on GCP, you want to move it to Azure or AWS. It's less about that and it's more about the CIO deciding that she wants to enable her developers to use whatever platform they want to use. And so it's funny, you know, the developers are the new kingmakers kind of meme. I'm not 100% comfortable with that because I think that absolutely developers build the solutions that allow an organization to be agile. But really, it's still the CIO that gives them or that allows them, gives them the framework to use whatever tools they need. So I actually think that the sort of developers versus IT kind of tension is actually a fake one and what really needs to happen and what we're seeing in these more forward-looking, large enterprises is the bringing together of those two worlds and enabling developers to use what they need. And I totally agree with what Tim said about speed. At the end of the day, it's not the big that eat the slow, it's the fast, sorry, it's not the big that eat the small, it's the fast that eat the slow. And so, you know, large enterprises want to feel more like a startup, more like an agile organization. So I think that sort of that enterprise grade kind of way of looking at the world was a way of looking at it from kind of legacy days and we need to change that way, I think. And then it feels like that, you know, Cloud Foundry and if I look at Pivotal specifically are focused at that, you know, those large enterprises seems to be getting a lot of traction. We see, you know, big companies that are on stage and here, which there's a large opportunity there but it different from what I see at, you know, certain shows where you're seeing smaller companies that are, you know, maybe embracing Kubernetes and containers a little bit more and not looking at Cloud Foundry. What are you seeing? I think it's pragmatic. I mean, it's totally not the sexy thing to say but at the end of the day, developers will kind of do what they are told to do because at the end of the day they're in a job they have to deliver. So I actually think, you know, I spent some time talking to James Rodders earlier on to kind of get an update on where Pivotal is with regard to PCF and I think this theme of allowing the CIO to enable their people to do what their people need to do is actually the right one. It's a really pragmatic approach and I think it's less about, hey, let's try and keep all these developers happy and try and be the cool tech vendor for the developer. It's about being the tech vendor that can help the CIO be the hero of their own development teams. Kim, there was a good question at the new stack panel this morning. How do people keep up with, you know, all of the new things? And of course there's many answers but you're involved in lots of meetups, lots of different channels, you know, what are you seeing as some of the best ways for people to try to get involved and, you know, try to keep up? It's a information overload. I would say Taylor, your feeds, whatever they are had to be very finite into the things that matter most to you. So like Sarah and some other folks said, you know, there's telepathy, there's Slack, there's mailing lists, Twitter obviously, user groups, GitHub, that kind of thing. It's really important. I mean, I think a lot of us have gone through and looked at talks and videos after in a conference maybe we weren't able to make it. And so those are super valuable to kind of hear what the state of the union is on certain things, you know? And I like, you see an independent analyst talk about, you know, a project, right? I think my customers enjoy that and they want to hear it from an objective perspective, not just the company branding, so, yeah. I also think people still share things on blogs even in 2017, right? A real-world development experience out there as it goes. In your new, as you're moving on in your role at Google, is there a broader role that you'll be looking at in terms of this whole ecosystem of developers and operators? Brought a role. So building a program and basically attaching myself and we always laugh and say someone has to do a shot for every time you mention Kelsey Hightower's name. But we, Kelsey and I are kind of going to be sticking together for a little while and I'm going to kind of see what works for him. I've did programs like this at IBM and at CenturyLink for Jared and those folks and so I just want to see what the state of the union is there. For sure. You said, I mean, you've been involved with Cloud Foundry for years. I mean, can you pull one or two things that you really have enjoyed about this community and how it has grown and that people might not know if they aren't a part of it? Yeah, I think if you were here two years ago, it very much looked like the Pivotal show and there was a very close foundation I'd just been formed. And so there was not really a lot of, there was like kind of a blurry line between where foundation picked up and where Pivotal stopped. And so those other companies that help found the foundation and the project and we're contributing upstream, I think, kind of felt like, oh well, okay, this is, you know, well, and we're kind of all in this together. But there was definitely a little, how do we do this kind of thing? This year's show, even from last year's show, has grown significantly. And the big differences are we've got people from all over the globe contributing to the project where I feel like we had a few places here and there early on. So I love meeting the people and hearing their stories. And Ben, with your analyst hat on, what are you going to be looking at the next few days? Yeah, so I mean, as I said, first time I've actually been here, but I have been following it since day one. And I think, you know, I agree with Kim. I said a couple of years before the foundation was formed that it was time for the project to grow up and move out from VMware as it was then. And that's happened. And it is actually, it's actually quite neat to be here and to see that it isn't all pivotal centric. I mean, in fact, that Microsoft is now a big part of the foundation. It does feel like a mature and a vibrant ecosystem and it feels like things are in good form. Ben, slightly different question for you. You also wear a hat of working with the number of startups as an advisor, you know, what do you see in the marketplace today? What are some of the big opportunities and big challenges for startups? So I think helping with the complexity. I mean, at the end of the day, the world is going to be increasingly heterogeneous, whether that's multi-cloud or hybrid cloud or whatever name you want to put on that. So helping tools that help people wrap their arms around this increased complexity. So there's a real opportunity there. Things are getting busier. Things are getting more and more complex. And so removing some of that noise is a good opportunity. Well, if you don't like the complexity, you could always just live on Google's platforms and the things that they enable, right, Kim? I think we are up to 60 something products now and more coming, so I, whoa, it's a lot. All right, Kim, I want to give you, and Ben, final word takeaways from the show. Maybe Kim, some of the community aspect. Yeah, we're on day one, really. Yesterday was kind of day one with the different workshops and hackathons and things like that. I'm really looking forward to more talks in the tracks today. And tomorrow we have diversity luncheon and we'll see how the keynotes go in the morning, but I'm meeting so many great customers. And so I'm looking forward to meeting more and more in the morning. Yeah, Ben, you go to so many shows. What differentiates this one? Yeah, I do. And for me, I'm not an open source fanatic by any stretch of the imagination. I equally go to proprietary vendors and product shows as well as these ones, but what I will say is that I've been impressed with the coming together of the community and the support of environment among the organizers and the attendees. And so that's really refreshing to see. All right, Ben and Kim, thank you so much for joining us. For John and myself, thanks for watching. We'll be back with lots more programming and thanks for watching theCUBE.