 Welcome to Rational Inc. Rational Inc, you're thinking to yourselves, what on earth is that tattooing? And you knew that as well as I did. I'm joined at the table today by Rito. Rito, welcome to the table. Rito is one of the main people to set up tattoo conventions here in Colorado and in Georgia, and they're slowly expanding. Rito, welcome to the table. Nigel, thank you very much. I am so honored to be here. I'm so excited. So let's talk a little bit about the tattoo convention here in state, because that's obviously the main driving force that we want to talk about. How did it all get started, and where are you today? Well, it started about around the year 2005. We were traveling on the circuit on the previous, on the current tattoo conventions that are out there, and we just noticed that Colorado never had a solid convention. There was never any organization here, so me and my brother, we decided, you know what, let's create one here in Colorado. There had been a few years that there was not any that, so we decided to create one from the ground up. It took about seven years to really get it going, but we didn't organize until 2015 was our first event. Okay, so you've now had a nice successful run, and I'm going to assume that you invite tattoo artists from everywhere? Oh, we invite from all over the world. Oh, wow. Currently, because of the current COVID situation, the next three events probably will just be dominant national artists, but we're hoping up, while things start to open up, we will get more of the worldwide participation back here in the United States. Right. How hard was it to actually get the convention going because you had to have had an awful lot of back-up people to help? Oh, yeah. It was actually really hard. Colorado had always had a reputation of not hosting good tattoo conventions for some reason. On the part of bigger cities, you know, Denver has grown with us over the last few years. Denver is now a metropolis, so it was very hard at the beginning. I mean, even for me to invite persons, artists to come on out and participate. Our very first event, we actually only had 10 artists participate, and then the following year we actually had 150, followed by the third year we were at 300, so it's just grown within the last eight years. That's sort of like almost exponential. Oh, yes, it was insane. It was amazing just to see everybody start participating. It was a big breakdown of the monotony of competition as well. A lot of shops within the city, within Denver, I mean, I would literally go from door to door and invite people, and to find out that they would never communicate with their neighbor, which would be the next tattoo shop to them. Only because there was that monotony competition. So during our first few conventions, we actually strategically placed them right next to each other to break down that competition, and now over the last few years I've seen some great friendships, great partnerships come out of that, so the convention has really done its job, and that was one of the main purposes of the convention. Excellent, excellent. So how do you get companies involved in this? I mean, through sponsorship, how do you actually go about that? Pretty much, it's open to the public. It's open to any private business. We just put the word out there, and they just slowly come. Like the old saying, you put it out there, they will come. But it was a lot of drive on our team to really start reaching out at first, and that's when we found out that Colorado wasn't really respected within the community as having or hosting the tattoo convention. So it just took a lot of trading and negotiating to get them here the first year, but once they've seen that this convention is a lot more than just tattooing, but based around the whole body modification culture and around different cultures, especially around this regional culture of the Old West and the different diversity we have here, the company slowly started coming after that. Right. I don't think a lot of people really understand how long body modification has been going on within the realms of humanity. I mean, it started thousands and thousands and thousands of years ago. Millennia. Millennia. Yes. We just mentioned it is the world's man's oldest art form, and it's amazing that it's actually able to survive for so long. Yes. It's just the amazing way that it's transformed into the modern world. It's just amazing to be part of it. Right. I mean, the famous caves in France where they found the cave drawings, I'll bet you anything you'd like, that they would go in there and they would draw something. You know what? That would look good on my arm. And I bet they all buggered off outside and they started and invented tattooing. Oh yeah, definitely. I mean, recently with the last 10 years, you know, they found Ozzy in the ice. Yes. When they thought him out, they found 20 plus tattoos on him. Right. And actually at the last event we had, we actually had the professor who studied him. Oh, wow. He's out from North Carolina. He came out and he did a whole seminar on him. He was part of the team. But recently, his newest discovery is here in the Southwest. They discovered the oldest tattooing tool, which is a cactus needle. So he actually had the replica he brought it out and he gave a whole seminar on that. It was an amazing seminar. We also had a local professor from CU who talked about the future of tattooing. He's actually incorporating biotechnology, nanotechnology into the skin. And the way I see it, I definitely see tattoo artists leading the way, body modification artists leading the way for the newer tattoo tech, body modification tech. So it's just amazing where it's headed. That's amazing. Definitely. I don't think people really fully understand the history that it's not a modern day thing. It's been forever. Oh, forever and all over the world. I mean, multiple cultures. Multiple cultures actually brought this up. Right. You know, until this day they're still... Yeah. The ancestors, they really respect the ancestors. That's right. And it's funny because I mean, culture A was nowhere close to culture B, nowhere close to culture C, that they all went into this at about the same time. Yes, that's the amazing part. That's the amazing part. It is. I mean, any Europe, the Pacific, Mesoamerica is just amazing. Asia, you know, just amazing that it all pretty much did come about the same time. Right. I think it was the cultural exchange of different continents too. Yes. That really helped that. Yes. And drive that. So, the major explosion was actually when the English went into the Polynesian Islands and then they brought what they... What they knew. Yes. And they brought it back. At that point, it was something new for European-wearing Europe to kind of die down at that point. Right. So they were able to bring it back and now there's actually a whole rejuvenation of people from Europe researching their older styles and bringing them back. Yes. Of course, you did just blame the English for this. So I'm feeling a little bit upset at the moment. No. I'm a photographer and I do a lot of work with models, fashion. Does fashion at all fit in with the tattooing side of things? Or do they go hand in hand? It definitely does. I mean, even look back within the last 20 years, tattooing was still primarily underground. It was still considered a low-brow art. But now it's actually a fashion statement. I mean, for my culture, of course, the majority of art came from imprisonment. But now there's actually been a lot of study in bringing back the old mess, old American styles, the body modification. But it was a rejuvenation from the prison art, the Chicano tattoo culture. But now you see, I mean, you see famous movie stars rocking those designs. Yes. And it goes hand in hand with the tattoo and the apparel, the fashion designers, they really are inspired from the tattoo world and body modification world. Right. I mean, even some last years fashion show in New York was probably the first one where there was actually persons with tattoos. So that was cool to see on the news and on the E-China whatnot. So it really has gone a long way. But it does run hand in hand definitely with fashion in the world. Right. It's interesting because I bet it's not the first time a model has walked through. It's just the first time the tattoo was seen. Oh yeah, exposed like that. Yeah. So, you know, that just opens the door to a whole new way of incorporating the art world with tattoos. Right. I'd like to change track just a little bit here because obviously about six months ago, the EU in all their infinite wisdom put a ban on colored ink, which of course through the whole of the tattoo industry in Europe a bit of a, well, a bit of a fastball. No other way of putting it unless I wanted to swear my head off. Where does that all fit in now? I mean, you told me some interesting stuff off camera. Why don't you explain it? So people understand it's not quite what it seems. Yeah, there's a lot of hearsay on that. I mean, I want everybody to do their due diligence and really look into it. It really came, the change really came from the tattoo removal side where a lot of the current technology being used, primarily the lasers being used to remove tattoo ink could not break down some of the pigments and the natural pigments that have been used for tattooing. So they brought up a concern to the European Union, to the health board there and it was just a lot of confusion. So it's not so much a ban. It's that they just want them to change the chemicals and the natural pigments, which I'm totally against for a lot of those inks, a lot of the companies were using natural pigments to where now they're going to have to revert and use certain chemicals within that. So I'm not a scientist on that end, but from what I know, you know, a lot of the inks that we've been using in the industry for the last hundred years pretty much have been the same inks being used through all the history of man tattooing themselves. I'm sure the European Union did their due diligence and really researched it. So I don't know too much about it, but I do know one of our main sponsors, Jack and Lou Rubino. He's one of the actual leaders in that movement. Of course, he owns World Famous Tattoo Inc., which is the largest tattoo company in the world. Really great company. They're based out in New York. A lot of people don't know that he has Italian ancestry, so he actually owns companies in Italy too. So he's had his hands, hands of the European Union, and hoping not to get too many of those inks banned and working with them to help guide them. So which is a great step for the tattoo industry that they actually have tattooed people involved on that side. Right. Right. I think it's probably time to get back on topic. Let's do it. Do you agree? Let's do it. Right. Now, I don't think a lot of people realize this, but Colorado has two conventions a year. And you've got one coming up in the very near future, isn't it? With this one, it would be three. Oh, wow. So there is a current circuit that goes around the nation. They've been doing it for a while. There's actually other rodeos that come through town, but they just never took a foot here in Colorado. So we are producing our first event in London, Colorado. We're calling it the No-Co Tattoo Convention, where this one is a lot different from what we do in Denver. This one we're based around the region, and it's been awesome to have all the community support from the local cities, Fort Collins, London, Langma, Greeley, and of course, even with Cheyenne. We've got a lot of them guys participating. And that's what we've always wanted. We want to bring the community together. That's interesting. I did not realize there were three conventions. Oh, yeah. It's over the last few years just with the growth of Colorado. Right. And I do attribute it to the marijuana growth as well. You know, the marijuana. Yes. They brought in a lot of different people from around the world now living here, but it's grown. We've been able to grow with that community as well. But yes, there will be three this year. This would be the first one in Noko. There has ever been one in this region, so we're super excited. Excellent. Excellent. So, I decide I want to go to this. And actually, I do. Thank you. But I go to the convention hall. What do I expect to see? I mean, do you have other events going on? Well, our convention is a lot different because we have so many events within the one event. I want you to experience both. I'm going to invite you, personally invite you to both events so you can see the difference. The one in Noko is going to be more focused around the tattoo community within the region as well as we're inviting a lot of artists from outside the nation to come in around the world. We'll have a few people from outside the world come in as well as a lot of national artists, well-known national artists. We'll have about four supply companies. So, once you walk in, you're going to have to get to Madhouse. Of course, everybody will be tattooing. It's an amazing sound to walk into a room and you have 200 tattoo machines. And just the buzzing away. Buzzing away. Buzzing away. It's an amazing sound actually. But within the event, we host a variety of different events. We have a small fashion show. This one here, we're doing a pin-up contest. We have the traditional classic American side show entertainment. We also have a whole other beast, which is the actual tattoo competition. We've had a great success over the last few years producing our tattoo competition. I believe the one in Denver, we had about 1,500 contestants through the three days. This one we're estimating about 800 contestants. That itself is its own production. I have a partner. He does his event from Colorado Springs. And actually, his tattoo competition has been around for over 28 years. Wow. So, like I said, it's two different productions on that end. We'll also have a car show on Sunday, excuse me, Saturday, which is going to be an amazing car show, because we're inviting different car clubs to come in. We have so much buzz about that as well. Most interesting, about how many tattoo artists do we have in Colorado? We're estimating about 1,500 total. Wow. Yeah, it's amazing. It's really grown. I did not realize. I did not realize. And I'm going to assume and don't take this the wrong way. But you do get what you pays for. Is that correct? That is correct. That's what I thought. We definitely encourage people to really do their research. And the convention is a great way to come on out and meet all the artists under one roof and really look at everybody's art. And see their art and different people have different styles. It's a great way to talk to one person as well and actually get a feel for it. We've always felt that once you pick an artist, they're pretty much a life partner. Because you always seem to go back to the same artist. Yes. So we definitely encourage to come on out. If you don't have any or if you're looking for your next tattoo, come on out, see all this amazing art and hopefully you could book a session at the convention. Or if it's a bigger piece, we definitely encourage that you make an appointment and visit them at their studios. Interesting, interesting. Now, these conventions have got to be very difficult to set up. How many, what's your backup staff like? How many people are involved in these conventions? Our core staff is about 35 people, but all together through the whole production of the event. For the NOCO, we're estimating we have about 350 people that have hands on involvement. The Denver one is actually more of a beast. We estimate some years between 600 and 800 people. Just all the cooperation between all the different companies, all the different supply companies, all the artists themselves, the car clubs, the motorcycle clubs, the educators, the teachers, and just all the other side show entertainment that we have. Right. It's really an amazing collaboration of who steps up to the plate. Right. What I think of it, I'm going to ask the question, it's off the wall. Most people did enjoy Sons of Anarchy. And their tattoo was unbelievable. Now, obviously, for the TV show, they weren't tattoos. But that Sons of Anarchy tattoo was incredibly intricate. About how long would it take to do something like that, and about how many greenbacks would have to fly out of my wallet and across the table to do something like that? Well, that all depends on the caliber of the artist, and the experience of the artist. Something like that, an experienced artist could probably lock out within two sessions. And I'm going to say about maybe ten hours of work. Oh, wow. Now, a beginner or somebody attempting to trace an intermediate artist would probably have about 15 hours work into it. And something like that, you're looking at thousands of dollars. Yes. You're not paying for the actual tattoo. You're paying for the time and the experience of the artist, definitely. Something like that, estimated between five to $8,000. Wow. Not cheap. Not cheap. Not cheap. But it's an investment. You know, it's beautifying yourself as well as you're going to hold this beautiful piece of artwork for the rest of your life. That's right. So you want to definitely invest. Yes. I had a pleasure of working with a model called a Misfit Toy. Covered head to foot in tattoos. Absolutely amazing art. She was a walking art gallery. But she said that her face was also tattooed, but you could only see them in ultraviolet light. Black light. And I'd never heard of ink like that. Yeah. It's newer technology, about eight years old and nine years old. It's a super interesting technology. One, actually one of our main artists coming out. His name is Slim, the living cyborg. He's actually siteshow entertainment. He'll be here. So he pretty much has a biomech tattoo laid out on his body where you can only see under the ultraviolet light. Nice. They call him the living cyborg. So it kind of goes with this theme. So he'll be performing some classic American circus siteshow performance. Wonderful. Swallows following and walking on glass and all that great stuff. These events are obviously big. How has that helped the community? Well, it's definitely broken dollar and not let me a competition. It introduces artists to other artists. It seems to up their level when they're sitting next to an artist to really drive on their art and really work harder at the art. And then just having the opportunity to speak to an artist from another part of the world or another state or their name even as far as their neighbors it just gives that opportunity to really give each other respect and feed off that energy. Right. How can others become involved in these conventions? Is there something that they can do? Just definitely reach out to the promoter if you're in your state or if you're in the state definitely reach out to us. If you need any resources we could definitely guide you where resources. But it's basically as simple as sending a text sending an email or just the old fashioned way of calling people trying to be involved filling out the application on the website. But I do encourage just to really make the time for it. It's a three to four day commitment. So for an artist in a shop you know that's a big commitment. You're losing thousands of dollars if you're not successful at these events so really do your homework before you jump into one make sure that it's something you will be successful. And that's an emotional tool as well. Yes. Yes. So most importantly give us some dates. Our first event is the no co-tattoo convention coming up May 20th through the 22nd 2022 at the Rance complex in Levin, Colorado. You can also get all this information at Coloradotattooconvention.com Our second event can't release it yet and we're waiting for the first event to go through but it will be at the end of September. Traditionally we're always at the end of September. Okay. Rito, I want to thank you so much for coming into the studio today sitting at the table and talking about this. It's been fascinating and congratulations on having a germ of an idea to where you are today. Brilliant. Nigel, thank you very much and I want to thank everyone that's actually helped me put this together. It's been a long road but we finally see the light at the end of the tunnel and all we're going to do is keep going forward and inviting more people. That's what you have to do. Yes, sir. Thank you. And seven years actually is not that long. This would have been our 10th year at the one in Colorado in the one in Denver. Yeah. So unfortunately COVID drew us back a couple of years but we're back. You're back. We are a small-based business too. We're a family organization and we're fortunate that we have other businesses that rely on that kept us going through COVID but this was a dream of a mean family so we're going to keep going forward. Excellent. Once again, Rido, thank you so much for coming into the studio. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you about this, about tattoos in general. I'd love to invite you back to the table where we can actually look more at the history and bring some examples in of the history of tattooing through the millennia. I think that would be absolutely fascinating. Awesome. I'll be honored so you let me know. No, I'm the one that would be honored. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Rido. If you can make these conventions, I really ask you to go because you will see some of the most amazing artwork on display. If you've never seen tattooing up close and personal, it's an amazing art form to think of how what something is drawn, the way that it's applied, everything. The whole thing is an absolutely fascinating process and the end results are stunning. Anyway, I'm Nigel Aves, your host. Thank you very much for tuning in to the first edition of Rational Inc. Coming to you from the Captain's Lounge Studios. Thank you. Bye-bye.