 I don't know what to make of this. I was going to thank you for braving your way through the political cold and the physical cold, which seem to be meeting these days. But maybe that's why you're here, actually, a nice refuge. So welcome to the refuge of the Southeast Asian Art Academic Programs series with the Center for Southeast Asian Studies here at SOAS. So we are very pleased to have Professor Marika Kloka with us this evening. We've been trying for a few years, actually, to get Professor Kloka with us. And last night, I think we all had a panic when we saw that the trains for Brussels were canceled, not due to Brexit, but due to the weather, apparently, apparently. But she made it, so I'm very, very happy to have her here. So Marika is, she's a professor at the University of Leiden. She is, as you all know, no doubt. She is a specialist of Indonesian materials. I think her title is Professor of Southeast Asian Art and Material Culture, if that's correct. And she, prior to, I'm very sorry, it's very crowded this evening. Prior to taking up the teaching post at the University of Leiden in the early 90s, she worked as a curator at the Oriental Library of the University of Leiden and also at the Ethnology Museum in Leiden. So has a curatorial experience, which I think is quite important to the kind of work that she does and also the kind of work that we aspire to do with Marika. Maybe I'll speak a bit to that briefly as well. That is, we do take a trip of our Southeast Asian MA focus. Our Southeast Asia focused students on the MA to European Archives in France and the Netherlands every year. And we have really benefited from Marika's expertise during these trips. And we will also benefit this year, if I understand correctly. So we have, we are growing independence on Marika's expertise and really learning a lot from that. So as you all know, no doubt, Marika has published very extensively on Hindu Buddhist materials from Indonesia, specifically from Java. I won't list all of her many publications. I will note, however, that she has announced in coming here with us a forthcoming publication. And I suspect that maybe we'll be hearing a bit of that this evening. Because the forthcoming publication is called The Golden Age of Temple Building in Java, eight to nine centuries, Chronology and Historical Contextualization. And what Marika proposes to speak to us about this evening is ornamentation in, I'm sorry, we must have another chair. Surely we'll find something. It's ornament in central Japanese temples. And she will be presenting, as I understand it, a chronology. And a chronology following stylistic development, the development of form in ornament in particular. I'm sorry, one of our clearly honored guests is on the floor. So, and I just want to pull out from the abstract that she shared with us the incredible ambitions of this. And I hope we'll be hearing about this. It's really quite remarkable. No, it's really quite wonderful. I wanted to really insist on it. And no doubt she will be able to fill us in. But looking at the ways that the study of ornament can enable solving of questions, as she says, of central Japanese history, and bringing clarity to the web of theories that have developed. I sort of want to make a point of this pedagogically for the students in the room as well. We often think that our work is easier here in the 21st century, because in the 20th century, people worked so hard and they developed the bases and the foundations and historical facts and we can sort of move from there. But in fact, and that is true in many ways, but in fact something that Marika points out to me in this abstract is that our work is not much more difficult because there is a web, as you call it. That's a really nice word. There's a web of theories and a web of interpretations that need to be dealt with and worked through. And the complexity of that can be that much more challenging than the complexity of establishing the basics of nothing in some way. So it's an interesting point that we're at, I think, in working on Southeast Asian art. So the ambitions, and I'm sure they will be fulfilled as to where this will get us, is the web of theories. For instance, on the date of Borobudur, on the Hindu-Roro-Jongkran temple complex and connections to the Buddhist Shailindras, on relationships between Hindu and Buddhist kings in general, which is something that we've heard a lot about from Marika, but also a very important and ambitious topic, on relationships between northern and southern central Java, on fragmentation or centralization of the state, and on connections with East Java, Sumatra, and beyond. So we will learn a lot tonight, no doubt, and please join me in welcoming Professor Kotha. Thank you so much for introducing me so elaborately. I'm very pleased to be here and to present to you some of this research on which I have been working for a very, very long period. And it's only now that I see the end of this coming, so it's very nice for me to talk on this to you. And what I mentioned in the abstract was maybe a bit too ambitious for tonight, but you can find that all in the book that is going to be forthcoming. So, let's begin. Who of you has been working on Indonesia? Not too many, so that means... And on Indonesian art? Also, not too many. So maybe it will be very specialist, but I hope you can take out these broad lines that Ashley was trying to... I think it's a little bit shy and they have a bit of knowledge, yeah. So would anyone know how to date Borobudur? No one dares? Okay. So, dating of Borobudur, there are various theories and here I give you a list of these, beginning with the first scholars proposing dates. Hendrik Kern, a Dutch Sanskritist who thought it dates from 850 to 900 on the basis of paleography. So on the base of Borobudur there are inscriptions. On the base of this writing, he connected that with other inscriptions, dated inscriptions, and on the basis of that he thought he gave these dates. But then new inscriptions were found and J. Krom, another Dutch scholar, he placed the monument a century earlier on the basis of an inscription that was recently found then and was dated 760 A.D. So he found relationships with that inscription. Then there were others focusing on relationships with an old Japanese text, the Sangyang Kamahayanikan. Then the Kasparis, who related the monument with an inscription dated 824, an inscription which he thought was the foundation inscription of the monument, the inscription of Kajumungan. Well, quite complex. I'm not going to mention all of this. Dumarse is interesting. Jacques Dumarse, a French architect, he didn't look at the inscriptions so much, but rather on the methods of building. And so he saw that a long time would have been devoted to the building of Borobudur and this was actually the first time that someone proposed a quite long period for the building of Borobudur from 775 to slightly after 830. But then more recent research goes back again to the inscription of Kajumungan. Kandah Jaya focuses on that and also Sumpirk. He also places the monument in the time of the king Rakey Warak around who was reigning in that period. Okay, so quite a lot of dates for Borobudur. Another example, a smaller temple complex, a Chandi Sambisari in the neighborhood of Jogyakarta, central Java, found in the 1960s and excavated in the 1970s, a small Hindu complex. The dates given for this temple are the following and if you have a look at these, actually they cover the entire central Japanese period. So again, it seems scholars found it difficult to do the dating of temples in central Java. And Loro Jongkrong, or also known as Prambanan, the largest Hindu complex in central Java also received different kind of dates. The early Dutch scholars thought it was the latest temple complex of central Java and therefore knowing the history of central Java, they dated it at the very end of the central Japanese period in the early 10th century. But then De Cosparis, he translated an inscription, the Shiva Gurha inscription on the installation of a Shiva image in a temple complex and this inscription gives some description of the temple and it appeared to be a quite big compound. So on the basis of that he suggested that this inscription should be connected with this temple. And so, yeah, a problem in central Java is that there are no dated inscriptions on temples. So we do not get inscriptions on temples with a date and this inscription was actually the origin is not very clear, it began to get moved and so this is what makes it difficult. We do not know, but because of the contents of this inscription, a relationship was made with this big Hindu complex in central Java. Now, I think De Cosparis is right. I still also think that the early Dutch scholars were right to suggest that it stands at the end of developments and because of some recent inscriptions or more recently found inscriptions, the picture becomes a bit more clear but because it appears that at the very end of the central Japanese period, there was a lot of trouble. So not too much trouble for kings to start such big building projects. But then if this inscription is connected with this temple, did the building start earlier or did it continue later? So was the installation of this Shiva image, was this done at the beginning of the process or at the end of the process? So that also gives rise to different ideas of the dating of the temple. And then the last one in the row is Jordaan and he suggested an even earlier date than the others had given. He suggested that this temple may have been, that the building began during the Buddhist Shailendra dynasty. So earlier on still. So, and this kind of shattered the, yeah, the certainties that we thought we had because this also indicates why it is, it does matter what date we are giving to these temples because if he's placing this in the Shailendra periods, we will have to interpret it differently than if it's a later building. And he, I think it was because of his publications and one of his books is called Imagine Buddha in Prambanan. So he was quite impressed by early Dutch scholarship that thought that this complex had something Buddhist to it, even though it is a Hindu complex. I think it was very much because of ideas at that time about Hinduism. They didn't find too many images with too many arms and they didn't find erotic images and it had a very much more serene impression it gave. But I would say it's a completely Hindu complex, nothing Buddhist to this complex. So he even suggested Prambanan maybe from around the same time. Okay, so you can see that these chronologies are based on general interpretations of history that are based on dated inscriptions, on the paleography of inscriptions and ideas on their development, on building techniques. Also stylistics have played a role. Some scholars have done some work on this and then also combinations of this. But again, Jordaan, he writes, arguments of style do not cut much ice and had best be abandoned. And I think this kind of triggered me to start to use arguments of style for argumentation. So that's when I quite long ago began this project on stylistic development of ornament on central Japanese temples. There are many temples in central Java. This map might not show you very clearly all their names. There are many more temples than indicated on this map. On this map are indicated only those temples that I use because they have ornaments. There are also remains of temples that do not have ornaments. So central Japanese temples have a lot of ornaments and this can be a very useful source, I think, to date temples. So we find, do you know how this is called? This head? Kala. You know that? Actually, I don't know why this is called Kala because others may know the Indian words for this, kirtimuka or simamuka. Actually an old Japanese text is called Chaviri or Chavinten. It's not called Kala, so somewhere scholars started to decide I think that this is called Kala and that's how it's now known, also in Indonesia. So I'll keep calling it Kala even though I think it's not the right term for this motive. There are Makaras, you might know those animals with the elephant's trunk. There are patterns, repeat patterns on the walls. There are pillars, there are these kind of dwarf-like figures that are sometimes called gunners or yapshias. Pillars and other configurations, this is also a very common ornament in spiral scroll ornaments, we call it. When I began to work on this I thought as actually also seemed to suggest that I was working on a very old-fashioned subject and that actually this should have been something that my predecessors should have done like for Khmer art and other mainland Southeast Asian fields but the Dutch scholars who were working on these materials had a philological background and not an art historical background so they didn't do it, I think. So it was very nice for me to find this recent book that tells me that ornament is back in architecture but also in other media as well as in scholars rekindled interest in this subject more broadly. It was not very easy, to tell you my research. There were some publications that were following this stylistic method for instance on this kala head which I didn't think was very successful and one of the reasons is I think because one, it focuses on only one ornament and two, because it was going too much into detail and that's what I continuously experienced as difficult, that you tend to go into detail but you have to keep a kind of overview of general developments and what is important in a development and what is not important in a development. Then Java seems to have been a very complex, central Java, very complex region because it's very difficult to find these unilinear kind of developments that you would like to find. There are not many of those over long periods. Also I experienced that a lot of new forms kept coming in to the repertoire of ornaments. They came in through other media from wood carving, from jewelry, from textiles. Also Java seems to have been very open to the world at that time the outside worlds, the Buddhist world and also the sculptures they excelled in variation. I think they were great people doing this ornament. They made beautiful ornaments. Then also there seems to have been periods when they did not follow on a line but went back to earlier times. There are frequent restorations of temples. Some temples show more than one building period like Borobudur. Also it's not very clear what preceded central Japanese art although we have a bit more information now than when around the time that I began this research because we now know there are things in West Java, in Batu Jaya and also what preceded it because in East Java there was very little there are now also excavating more pieces after the central Japanese period up to the Shingo-Sauri period in East Java that begins in the 13th century. There's a kind of gap between 10th and 13th century. Then there are no fixed dates. I will show a number of these challenges. Here you can see this variation that you can see in one ornament. Here we see a garland ornament in various forms on Borobudur with birds, with flower rosettes, lotus rosettes another type of flower with a leaf with fronds, with these kind of dwarf-like figures. Also the tops can be different. The type of garland is different. There are many differences that you can see in this material. I tried to collect these and to see whether I could make these kind of lines of development but I got stuck actually. I can put some forms together but then these do seem to be later than these. What is the relationship with these? These also seem to be later than these. Here this is also definitely later than this but here we see the same kind of upward point as we see here. What is the relationship between this one and that one? Then this is also a later development clearly to have leaf-like elements below the garland instead of beads and there are other developments. It's quite complex. Also an example of ornaments coming in from different materials. This seems to me a very old ornament in Java that came in through woodworking maybe already known through earlier woodworking traditions. This is on Chandi Manduz. This is on Chandi Banyu Nibo. This is a relief on Borobudo where we also see it. This is a close-up of the figure that you find here. This seems to be a wooden building so maybe this is indeed wood carving. We can also see it on thrones that might have also been of wood but importantly we also see it here on this seat on the elephant that surely was of wood and certainly not of stone so this seems to suggest origin in wood carving. As far as I know this ornament also doesn't exist elsewhere although it does in a later development pops up in Khmer art. It's for instance on Angkor Wat but I would be interested to know if you can also find it earlier than Angkor Wat. Another one that came through wood carving is this one that I call the foliate grid ornament. It's also known in their literature as Trishula Chakra ornament. This was a name made up by Dutch scholars early on and recent scholars also seem to adopt it but there doesn't seem to be any relationship with Chakra or Trishula to me so I'm sticking to foliate grid ornament and that's another one that's found on the carriage that brings Queen Maya to Lumbini and also seems to suggest an origin in wood carving. It's also an ornament that you do not find in other places. I did find it on Lolae, is that how you pronounce it? Lolae, yeah. In Roluwas, that's the only example I have found so far. Then of course ornaments that have an origin in textiles. Here is an example of a golden plate with a couple, a divine couple and she is wearing this textile that gives us two patterns that we can also find on central Javanese temples. This one is on Gedong Songhe II and this one on Punta Deva, one of the temples on Dieng. So this one you can find vertically here and this one is here. Quite well known I think is this textile on Chandisewu, a big Buddhist complex on its outer walls. Already quite some time ago here on Woodward wrote about this and he suggested it had Chinese origin and he made connections with Chinese textiles. More recently Sandra Sarjano in a PhD thesis that was defended in Berkeley shows that actually it doesn't copy a Chinese textile but it got inspired by both Chinese textiles specifically this floral kind of pattern that you find here but also by the pearl roundels type of textiles that you can find in Central Asia. But she also showed that it was all made together into something that is nevertheless uniquely Japanese and unique for this particular temple. Then maybe also from Jewelry an example of a band ornament consisting of ovals and small flowers that you can also find here. But this ornament seems to have been very popular in a certain time and I also found it as the border of a textile and also on a throne I think, yeah, on a throne. So this one moved to various media. Yeah, also Java was open to the outside world and I can find connections in ornaments between various regions with Dwarawatis. There is this kind of band ornament with small scrolls that suddenly appears in Java. There is an ornament that seems to be quite similar to me. This one is on Banyu Nibo in Java. This one in Cambodia. As far as I know this doesn't occur very often in Cambodia. It's specific for this temple and also in Java it's specific to this temple. So one wonders what is the connection. This ornament seems very similar to this ornament in South India, in Kanchipuram. It seems to me quite un-Indian actually. So maybe there was also a transportation of ornament from the east to the west instead of from the west to the east as we usually assume. Here with Champa, here with Sri Lanka and then also the Paoyani flower with China. So here is this Paoyani flower. So well at first in Japanese art it seems we only get lotus flower with a clear heart. And the leaves always eight or four and four between or eight and six and making up sixteen. Suddenly this type of flower that resembles the Paoyani is that how you pronounce that? Peony. Appears also on Chandy Banyu Nibo specifically a temple that seems very Chinese to me. And also the leaves, this type of leaf we get that goes with it in Chinese art. Here is a textile from the Tang dynasty showing such a flower. Quite similar it seems to me, dated to exactly the same time that I would date Banyu Nibo. Yeah, this is the archaisms that you can get into the motifs. This is what is called an antifix in Japanese art. It's maybe you know it as gavaksha is that the term in Indian art or kudu? Well, that's the thing that you find in a slightly different form in central Japanese temples and it's called antifix in the literature. This is from Borobudur and early on you get these things on a base that looks like this, a molded base and then suddenly they stopped doing that and then the base is decorated with squares, circles, combination of those that's ornament with a flower, similar kind of ornaments even a garland you can find and they didn't do this anymore they dropped it completely but then in the last phase and I do think this is the last phase they did reinvent it again so they got back to this idea of the base but then it has a different form often it's broken in the middle to let a bell down into that space and there are other characteristics that make me think that nevertheless this is later and for instance that there are five points on this antifix, another late development I think I'll skip this one then even on Borobudur itself of course this is a very big monument huge to sculpture so we can imagine that it took quite a long period of time to do this interestingly I found that I think that in general one was working from downstairs to upstairs but it is interesting to see that even on the first gallery we get an ornament and it's not finished so people were working on this and one person didn't finish or something or for some reason they forgot or they had to go on or I don't know so we also have to realize that this also happened that they didn't finish and that maybe some of the ornament was even though on the first gallery someone later on thought hey this is not finished, let's finish it now that makes it quite complex but nevertheless the big lines seem to be that one was working from bottom to top so here this is how one began with this kind of garland and here we get in this pearl roundel that we have also seen on this textile pattern it seems to me related to this slightly later style when we get this influx from China or maybe even directly the Central Asia or through the Middle East somehow and in the very latest stage we get a different type of flower so here we see this characteristic lotus-like flower with always these eight petals or sixteen but then suddenly a flower appears with only five or six petals and differently shaped which seems to me also I can find it in Chinese art of the same period and this is an example that also shows five petals but in Chinese art there are also many examples with six petals and that's what we also find in Boroboro but this one is all again it seems a later development and it seems to be at the very top of the monument okay so by now you may already be completely oh what is this all these details yeah for me it was also very difficult and one of the things is also that you're working a lot with your eyes and what your eyes are doing is often not considered very scientific so I too was doubting what I am seeing am I right or am I not right and I was wondering is that how should I get all it was actually for me like learning a new language and actually a language that had not been studied before I needed to memorise the words I needed to get the structure of the grammar I needed to get the feeling for the nuances of the speech and this is actually my case study that made me think yes I can trust my eyes this is a Makara in the Rijksmuseum it has been there for a long time and none of the curators or any other scholar had ever been able to get its origin after I had been looking at these motifs for some years I came back to the Rijksmuseum I saw this Makara and I thought this is Saewu style a style of Chandi Saewu and related temples in the neighbourhood but also on Mandud so I recognised this style then I started to look in my photographs and to see whether I could pinpoint it more clearly and so here I also want to show you that actually if you look clearly there are pieces broken here there used to be another pearl string coming from the mouth of the lion and going down here so this is a Makara with a lion in the beak very common ornament in central Java also found on Borobudur and the style of Borobudur and Saewu are quite close but nevertheless I decided yes, this is Saewu style I went back to my photographs and then I found yes indeed and it resembles most the Makaras that are on the entrances of Chandi Saewu itself in particular it's a bit difficult maybe to see I don't know whether you see that they're very similar sometimes you really need photographs that are taken from exactly the same perspective to be able to show very clearly that they are the same here I try to take the side view but the problem is this Makara is up high and this one is standing low so again I get a different kind of perspective but there are two elements that are specific for this temple and for the entrance of this temple and that is that the Makara is cut in such a way that part of the circle that was here is on the post not on the piece with the Makara so as you can see here here it's also disappeared but it was here originally on the post that's one element that's characteristic for these pieces and this is another element that's characteristic for them there is a pearl string going down here and then moving forward and then down again you do not find that anywhere except for this temple they did it on all the eight Makaras of this temple complex the entrances, there are four entrances and there are two of these Makaras on both sides so this is the temple a large Buddhist temple complex this is the entrance if this was on this temple then it means at least one Makara should be missing and it should be one that was on the right side of the entrance and yes, indeed there is one Makara missing and it's on the main entrance the eastern entrance you see it here but this is a modern they try to give the outline I mean it's on the entrance the main entrance, it's not nice to have to have nothing there so in the last restoration they gave the outlines of Makara on a recent piece so that's where it comes from and here is its companion and here you can see that at this side but it's on the only side they decided to have the Makara with the circle here on one piece instead of like this you can look at details and then see more and more similarities like the way how this is done the very elegant and quite slender horn also a slender or narrow neckband then very similarly etc ok so when I was first, when I began so for me it was quite complex but the first thing I saw was a difference between early central Japanese and late Japanese in various motifs so for instance in band ornaments in the early period you get these kind of bands and in the late period you get more floral and foliate elements in these band ornaments you can see so here we have pilasters and that forelobed motif that I already showed you earlier here we find the elaborate form that's much more foliate in a very late form and then this small band or this band with four petaled flowers that seems to me to be a very easy marker to distinguish the late style because it seems to appear quite suddenly and then it became very popular so you can find it on many temples, it was used quite a lot at first it seems to have been this type of band with scroll ornaments but then it developed and this became the standard into an ornament with the same flower but with this oval kind of shape another element that is easy to tell early central Japanese and late central Japanese apart is found in the tops of garland ornaments and specifically in the later period you get this composition with six leaves I call it the six-leaved motif but maybe these are petals and a flower is suggested in various forms but the characteristic thing is the six-leaved motif whereas here there are four elements in the early period and very early it seems they were looking at natural flowers and this is rather a lotus flower and maybe a blue lily so this is most characteristic of this early period on the one hand and the late period on the other hand and you can find that six-leaved motif also seems to have become very popular and you find it anywhere in a lot of other ornaments as well also in antifixes like here in the top of an antifix also in the side of the antifix in a border ornament here more of them in antifix also in the band on the antifix in a repeat pattern on Gianni Plausen in another type of ornament on Loro Giongrang in a corner forced into a triangular form and here in a spiral scroll ornament so this seems to me also an easy marker to identify a late Central Japanese style also in the Makaras you can see clear distinctions in the band ornament with the early ones having squares and circles or a combination of those and the later one developing a band with leaf-like elements as you can see here that was early and late and then within those I started to see differences between Borobudur style what I call Borobudur style which I think is the earliest Seavu style the second so both are within my early style I can distinguish Borobudur and Seavu and in the late style I also distinguish two styles the Ichioplausam style and the Loro Giongrang style so in this antifix for instance you see this pedestal-like base that we have already seen in the early ones but we also see that the ornament defines the outline of the antifix you can see that they went to a lot of trouble to carve this along with the lines of the ornamentation but then in the late period they decided it would be easier to cut it straight and the ornament is made to follow the form of the antifix we see three we see antifixes in the Ichioplausam style specifically with three points and then later develops a form with five points also and in the Loro Giongrang style this five-pointed form becomes the form that all antifixes have small or big and we find these nicely curved forms also you can see there is a difference in the kind of central element I call this pear-shaped and this arch-shaped so the arch-shaped form came in in the Saewoo style it continued in the Ichioplausam style which was more or less dropped in the Loro Giongrang style which got back to this pear-shaped style again in the Kala head you can also see differences the Borobudur ones have one point the ones at Saewoo are flat topped they hang often on the upper bar also characteristic for this style are these garlands that come from the mouth of these Kala's then oops here you can see that here they have only an upper jaw in the early periods then in the late periods we get a form with a lower jaw and also poles are placed on the sides of the head so this is what we see in the Ichioplausam style and then in the Loro Giongrang style the poles get raised upwards and they seem even more threatening maybe if you would like to give some more general definition to this so these are among the latest it doesn't mean that all the old forms were dropped in the Loro Giongrang style we also find the Kala with only the upper jaw here another one with only the upper jaw but with poles here with lower jaw and poles downward and here with them raised upwards so in this latest style you also get all of them together but how do we know that they are late because they are five pointed because here we get this kind of base with a break in between we also have the six leaves motive etc ok that was the first half of my talk and now I wanted to show you some I don't know up to what time do I have actually we have a room until seven it's just a question I will in any case give one example of how we can use this for dating monuments so I will first focus on Borobudo and I will see if I have time for some other examples Borobudo we can see on the monument that there were different phases of building because as you can see here there was an original foot of the monument and this with a series of reliefs very nicely carved reliefs 160 panels showing the Mahakarma Libanga text Buddhist text but this was covered up at a certain time it seems to me they covered it because the monument was falling apart that's why they had to build such a very big wall against it as you can see here so they opened up during the last restoration they opened up this part for the visitor to see some of this but the reliefs are going around the monument and we cannot see them anymore because they are behind this wall it was or the complete wall was opened and there are photographs that have been taken I think the originals are kept in Leiden in the National Museum of Ethnology and you can find them through their website so we can see that they were doing things in the building and changing things and being discussed this is the first so here you are on the first gallery this is the first balustrade but here this is done differently than on the other balustrades and the impression it gives is that at first they wanted to make a low balustrade and this is just the top of that low balustrade that they decided to put other elements on top of that and to make the balustrade higher yeah of course you can see these things but then it's also difficult to give datings to these elements of architecture because when did they place that big wall against these reliefs um well it's clear from the reliefs that the reliefs were not finished yet so it must have been during the process of finishing the reliefs but then yeah in this case did they did they begin building like this and then they immediately decided oh this is too low we have to add this but did they come to that inside after they have done this building okay so you can get these kind of ideas of the building phases of Borobudur this is from Dumarse the French architect I talked about um this is from kind of popular publication with nice colored that makes clear how he saw it although his description in the text doesn't completely fit with what we see in the images and Dumarse has written a lot on this in several publications and none of his publications say actually all the time the same so apparently he was also wondering how to decide but it is illustrative to show you this so first they made these first two parts then they um yeah this part they did it like this then they changed the plan instead of this bigger stupa they decided to make a smaller stupa at the top and to have the circular terraces with smaller stupa surrounding it um and here is this in this phase he also places this first gallery this addition of the first balustrade so he thinks it was done at the same time that this big wall was added to the monument uh no sorry this is when he thinks they did the low balustrade so quite late in the process and here they added the niches with the stupa on top of this at the very last stage and then they also added here these staircases okay we can see also in the ornamentation that there is a difference between the um the balustrades of the top floors they all conformed to this um configuration with kala head and and makaras on an edge that is carried by pilasters uh and this one has a different kind of configuration without kala head uh these these are stupas these are different have different shape uh etc this is the the inner side of that balustrade uh with the jataka mala series of reliefs um and here we also see the fixes the antifixes on the balustrade are also different from those on the other parts of the monument so while this is the common form on the other galleries this is the one that you find on the balustrade sides without this molded base and this is the type that you find on the main walls uh but on the balustrade of this first gallery you can find a different type as you can see specifically you can see there is a difference in the top so this one has this foliage and this one seems to have a pot-like shape and this is actually a form that you do not find a lot this is quite common in the early period but this is not you seem to find it only in a very limited period this relates this part of the uh of the monument to the sevu style so the style that is just after the Borobudur style so here this one is from sevu this one is the one from Borobudur you can see there is a big similarity but on sevu it was developed further so it seems to me that sevu was the origin of this form and and they were elaborating on that form and adding elements making Makaras in the form etc okay so um yeah I think and this is just one example but if you study other ornaments as well uh I see relationship in the first gallery sevu style so that is the style immediately following on the Borobudur style then I said you can see a development from the bottom to the top there are pilasters in all galleries so we can kind of follow quite easily how that worked this is in the first gallery this is a quite um yeah broad pillar it seems with this antifix motive characteristic for the Borobudur style in the second gallery so in the first gallery you have two sets of reliefs and these pilasters are there to separate panels of relief and they are only on the lower series they are in between the lower series so there there's shorter than in the other galleries where there's just one series of reliefs so the the reliefs are taller so they decided based on this type to add another um a part with antifixes here but then here on the third gallery you see that a new element is entering it is this beaded line um that may be related to this entering also of this pearl roundel that you find in the Servo style so I think this is again an element of the Servo style and in this last one so they kept the extra layer here extra moldings here but here they dropped it because they added another new element and that is a pot shaped element on the top and the bottom and both of these you find in the Servo style so again it seems to me from the Borobudur style it was moving up to the Servo style on Borobudur so here are some examples where you find the same in the Servo style and Servo itself here I think I'm going to skip this then so I see a lot of development towards the Servo style but I also see a development into the Plausan style although not as much as the Servo style so it seems there were details that were left to be done and some of these were done in the Plausan style on the fourth ballast trade strangely we find a type of Kala head that has these spiral shaped eyes and also the Makaras have this type of eye this is something that starts to begin in this on Servo it seems also but maybe it's more or less the same time on Chandi Servo you see them appear both Kala's with this type of eye and Makaras on parts that have clearly been restored at a later time so it's late Servo and that develops into the Plausan lore style as you can see here the spiral eyes become much bigger and more prominent okay the same I actually already showed you we see happen in the garland ornament and these pearl roundels related to Servo this is on Chandigana that's very near to Servo and the flower that is Plausan lore type of flower that we find on some of the ornaments at the top level so then of course we could also try to find this ornament this band ornament that I said is characteristic for the late style that begins with the Plausan style and yeah we do find it but we do not find it very prominently we only find it on these kind of details like on the elephants band and on the back of this seat it seems either this ornament had not yet entered into the stone into the repertoire of stone ornaments or this was maybe done at a very late stage one can imagine that yeah people who were there and they saw the band ornament it was not decorated they decided I will decorate this and it was done later that's also a possibility that's my final example that for me is very telling and shows that they were working until the Plausan style is this image of a Buddha on the fourth main wall so at the top level of reliefs it's the only one but this one has this typical band ornament on the border of the halo which is also has a flame border and that's the typical Plausan style element that you find on Buddhas and Bodhisattvas from Chandi Plausan the Plausan temple so this for me is the most clear evidence that they were working on the monument up to that period but not later than that so not up to the Loro Jongbrang period I do not see any overlap between Borobudur and Loro Jongbrang so the idea of Royordan that they can be seen as twin pinnacles of early Central Japanese culture I do not see it in the ornament okay I wanted to add some history but maybe I will skip that because maybe for you you are not too much maybe into all this history but of course it is important this is an important inscription the Wanuatangar III inscription that was found in 1983 and it was important because it gave us a list of kings we did know a list of kings this is an inscription of King Balitun so one of the later kings of the Central Japanese period we knew an inscription by the same king in which he also mentioned previous kings but that list was not complete in that list he only needed the successful kings so he also mentioned those in this list he also mentions the not very successful kings who had only very brief reigns like this one and here we can see that this later period was quite complex because there were a lot of rulers with brief reigns but this is an important inscription because it tells us that a grant to a land grant to a Buddhist monastery was established by this king it was maintained by this king then it was dissolved the inscription tells us by this king this one kept it dissolved this one reestablished the grant then this one dissolved it again and it was kept dissolved until King Balitun decided to re-initiate it again and this was for political motives he quite honestly tells us why do I tell you this for me it seems that what I see in the art historical record seems to fall nicely onto this what we see here that Buddhist Buddhist monastery is stimulated and this seems to fall nicely together with my Borobudur Sabu period then there seems to be a bit of a gap and that's why we can so clearly distinguish between early central Java and late central Java because it doesn't flow fluently from from early to to late things are happening is it this kind of gap this king is said not to be the son of this one but to be the son of someone else someone associated with a place you know the place so apparently this is not a line of father to son not always in any case this one is not connected with does not seem connected with the previous one so so it I see again it beginning and this would then conform to my Ito Plausan style and this is now also becoming more clear that this king should be connected with the Plausan temple I will show that later and then this these two kings seem to be connected with the building of and they especially this one clearly manifests himself as Shaivites king this one Buddhist again it's difficult but I seem to see this alternation of Buddhist Hindu while in scholarship it's always questions questions and even it's said it's an old fashioned idea to suggest that if two religions are living together that there will be fights but it seems to me there is something like that and they are alternating each other actually I place Dieng and that are usually placed at the very beginning I place them here too complex to explain so this is the Plausan lore temple it has inscriptions it's a very big complex again with two major temples with female donors it seems in this temple and male donors in this temple there were many secondary shrines surrounding this complex and these have inscriptions they tell us who donated buildings and interestingly they give some information on people who donated there are quite a number of inscriptions that tell this is a donation of Shri Maharaja and there are two here that tells us that this is the stupa that was donated by Shri Maharaja Rakkay Pikatan because we here get a name of a king it was always suggested that this was the king who built this temple complex and this happens to be also a king that is connected with Loro Jongram hence this idea that Plausan, a lore Buddhist and Loro Jongram Hindu were donations of the same king a Buddhist queen but it now seems to become clearer that Shri Maharaja is not this Shri Maharaja Rakkay Pikatan because we now know through this 1 in 1803 inscription that Rakkay Pikatan had as his personal name Jah Saladu so it seems that he first made donations to this stupa these two stupas when he was not yet king and he was still known as Rakkay Gurunwangi Jah Saladu and so it was the earlier king I think this is too complex I'll leave it here anyway this all this does seem to give us quite clear dating of this one temple and it seems to be connected with this Rakkay Gurunwangi who was a completely forgotten king I think who reigned in the second quarter of the 9th century and seems to me to have been a very important one it is in this period that I see most clearly a kind of unification in the ornamentation similar ornaments I mean they're never completely the same because the Java sculptors were very creative but similar as this you do not get it in another period and these are examples of this type of antifix also specific for this period that you find and spread over central Java and not even that you also find it in East Java as I will argue on Chandi Baddut and in Sumatra in Chandi Baddut Chandi Baddut was discovered in 1923 and then it was immediately connected to that inscription that I already mentioned early on that inscription of 760 it's an inscription in East Java and because the inscription was found quite or the temple was found quite near to the place where the inscription was found immediately the scholars decided this temple has a central Japanese style so it should date from this early period same date as the inscription this was also connected to Chinese information of 700 tells us that between 742 and 755 there was a move to the east so they thought they interpreted this as a move from central Java to East Java I now think it actually was a move from West Java to Central Java so also an Eastern move but another Eastern move and then stylistics were used either to confirm that date or sometimes they did confirm that date and it was suggested to be a much later building connected rather with the move from Central Java to East Java in the early 10th century and that is also what Jordaan I have been mentioning him a lot but he has been doing a lot of work on these things and he suggested that the temple should be connected to the eastward expansion of Central Java at the end of the 9th and beginning of the 10th century he wrote an article on this and then he used also ornaments he was inspired by others and then he used this ornament on the temple this is again this foliate grid ornament as part of his argumentation to suggest this very late date but as far as Mike he is actually not an art historian so he was using this and he said we should also use other ornaments but he didn't go into them and he didn't do it he said others should do that so that is what I am doing now so he thought this is an ornament that you find only late in Central Java but as I have tried to show you it seems to me to be a very old motif in Java based on earlier wood carving tradition and the fact that this form is different from the Central Japanese form seems to me to maybe even support this idea that it was a kind of general ornament and that here in East Java they used their own form of this ornament the characteristic circular heart shape is not here in this one but it is in all Central Japanese forms of this ornament and it is found in the early on on Sevo on Plausan Lor and also on Loro Jongbran Indit but if we look at other ornaments on this temple it shows to me that it belongs to the Ichio Plausan style so the style of this king Rakegaru so these are examples Nhaven is also temple belonging to that style and these are quite similar to each other more similar you don't get antifixes very similar actually this is the same also quite similar Badud but also Plausan Lor and Ichio there is a garland ornament with these leaf like elements which makes clear it is late but it is specifically similar to the form we find in Plausan Lor also the kenara that is depicted here is in the form that you find in this Ichio Plausan Lor style and not in the form with the wings spread as in the Loro Jongbran style another repeat pattern that you find at Badud and Plausan Kidu is this one so for me it seems clear but clear that this temple does not date early does not date late but dates from this Ichio Plausan Lor style period of Rakegaru and this is a period when we see this kind of unification in ornamentation and it seems that it's also spreading it's so similar that yeah, what is the relationship and why would there be, there's another temple was found, it's no longer there but pieces of that temple are still at the site of the Badud temple it has the same style it was found nearby so why would there be a place here that's connected with central Java in the second quarter of the 9th century I don't know I have some ideas but they are very speculative okay I'll leave that for the moment then also there's a temple in Southern North Sumatra that was discovered in 1888 and then was was discussed by boss in 1930 he thought it was very important because it also showed a central Java style then Mr Schnittger went there to do excavations and he thought it was 8th century but maybe the 9th was also possible then it was forgotten the site until in 1973 there was a team doing research in Sumatra finding archaeological remains and they just documented what was still there at the site but it seems the pieces were covered under the ground again and it's only recently that the National Research Center of Archaeology in Indonesia began to do excavations anew so they are so this site has been dug up then covered again dug up again pieces have also been moved in the meantime so there's not much left but what is left seems to me to also show relationships with this Ijeoplauson style here we find this foliate grid ornament with actually this typical central Japanese form very similar it seems to me to the one on Chandikadulan this type of antifix motive is also shows relationship with that style and then finally we find also in old photographs they do not seem to be there anymore we find this specific type of antifix that is so characteristic for this Ijeoplauson period and here we both find the form with the arch going up and the form with the heart shape both are found on the same temple in the Ijeoplauson style so that seems to be for me again another clear element to identify this temple also as belonging to this period and again one could wonder why we find this here and now we do know that this period was is still a period where they find gold a lot of gold and we know that the Maharajas of Java were also famous for the gold and but Java itself is not rich in gold nor in any other metals it seems so maybe there is a connection because of the gold and then because of this gold I was thinking what would be a connection with that other place, Badut in East Java and then I found that that place is actually nowadays it's known because of the fine white clay that you find there and other materials that you need to make this nice white wares that are also made in China so I was thinking would it be possible that they already knew this early on and that maybe they already I don't know how you can find how you can research this actually I think we need archaeologists for this but yeah the white wares have been found for instance in Chandisehu a white earthenware found which is said to be Chinese but maybe it was Eastern Java this is just speculation and I don't know what to make of this maybe a suggestion for some research it seems to me but this is partly also this kind of speculation but this period was a very important period this is also the period when we have the first ship wreck with a mass of Chinese wares apparently heading to Java it's the same period there is this talk in Arabic sources on the Shri Maharaja the Maharajas of the southern seas and there is this person Shri Maharaja who calls himself just Shri Maharaja on the Plausan temple and there is also an inscription in Sumatra another place in Sumatra no not Sumatra it's in Thailand southern Thailand this inscription also talks of someone who is named Shri Maharaja so yeah it seems to me that this was a very important king and we have completely forgotten him that's it and I think I am not gone too much questions if you are okay with that this is not a silly question but you had an early slide which showed motifs architectural motifs that were you said Java was open and they came from Shri Maharaja I was just wondering how these motifs were exchanged I mean yeah my I think because that's also a thing we do not find for instance it has often been suggested that there are links between Cham art and Indonesian art the dating is not right because in Cham literature it's often said that it's 10th century but in 10th century Java I think this is based on the early idea that Laura Jonggram dates from the 10th century but that's already long gone but it seems in Champa studies that's kind of continued in 10th century Java there is little to compare with but these things have been mentioned also with India I think it's John Guy who suggests relationships with the early Chalukyas in southern India and indeed I feel there is similarity I feel I can date Indian architecture ornaments on the basis of my knowledge of Japanese ornament but if you want to make really clear comparisons and really find motifs that are really very close to each other you will find little little some things bits but so obviously they yeah they sometimes yes maybe they did go to temples for instance this spiral scroll ornament in a certain period you get a lot of these spirals going together parallel on each other and I was wondering whether it might be based on people visiting the Stupa at San Nat where you find quite similar kind of flowers and quite similar kind of so that could be that people were going to places and bringing some things back but from memory we didn't have photographs maybe drawings at the place I don't know but and partly maybe also through other media like textiles I think that was also a major yeah major force to carry ornaments but also jewelry I suspect I see in south India I see jewelry on statues that are only found in gold in Java not in India maybe they existed in India and gold you can easily melt down to make something new but in Java these and also the color head is Japanese like actually Indian colors do not seem to me very similar to Japanese ones except in certain South Indian examples they do look a bit Japanese like yeah that's the answer your comments on ornamentation and tracing the evolution do they apply equally to content frame as bronze statues bronze in Java so the ornamentation on bronze is it similar to what you see on stone at the same time so much because it was not ornamented in that yes sometimes yes I do the talams for instance the things that are called talam in the literature it's not the correct term again I think but these are these trays to carry for offerings and the central Japanese ones they have an ornament in the center and often it's a lotus flower and I see this Chinese so in Saru style I see most connections with China these influx from China seems most apparent in the Saru style even the urshis the sages on the temple they sometimes really look like Chinese people Chinese people with these long moustaches and small pointed beard not like the Indian ones the Indian sadhus even for Indonesians they look like Chinese people there's a piece in the museum in Yogyakarta and it's written on the label Chinese people so yes so that period on the these talams I can also see this kind of Chinese flower maybe a flower for instance there are bronze images they do not have a lot of ornamentation except for the back pieces they are different they do not show this typical Klausang style back piece maybe the six leaf motif would be something to see if it's found could be an interesting other subject question to that actually which comes to mind because you mentioned the Shibret in terms of imported motifs the metalware metalware the gold bowls silver bowls on that Shibret which is dated to 826 at least that's in detail at those I've also not that's in detail but yeah and the one of Boyohod yeah the one of Boyohod there is this Japanese catalogue that also suggests that a number of these objects were actually Chinese imported imported from China so in Tid maybe yeah I think there are some we can make some comparisons as well when you publish the book you'll be able to change the dating that is generally placed out now from a student point of view when you're told to date Borobudur usually about 852 what was the date 852 852 your dates vary so much 852 is really very late yeah but so when you publish the book what date are you going to put based on your style to Borobudur I think I agree quite a lot with Dumar Ser who he places Borobudur he starts he dates it from 775 of slightly after 830 well I agree with it slightly after 830 because that corresponds with my Ijoplausan style I think it's 775 is too late and I think it's based on this general idea that's the the Dieng and Gdong somal temples which are small temples and because they are small they are considered to be the beginning because they are small and you should develop from this is based on this kind of linear ideas of linear development that it should go from small to complex but I think they began to work on stone because they began with Borobudur to work on stone Borobudur is the kind of monument that you want to build in stone it should be there it's a monument you want to build for eternity that's when they I think they began to work in stone and yeah so my my later dating of Dieng and Gdong somal also corresponds actually better with the inscriptions that are found there so in Dieng inscriptions have been found from around 103 it's also that would be perfect I think for me because this would be the period of Rakey Varak and Rakey Varak well, some work thinks that was the person connected with Borobudur but Rakey Varak is called one who is yeah the term is difficult to explain but let me say worship at Kailasa and Kailasa is Kailasha and Dieng is the Kailasha of Chalapa so that seems to be the connection and and these inscriptions are from this period but I see in Dieng I see two periods actually I see a period in between Myservu and Ijoklaosan period and I see a period that is from the same time and same style as Lora Jongram so and that's it's Hindu so that yeah it seems to fit in my idea of the history but you should be careful to not fit your yeah so I would actually to see what I see and then only go to the to the history so that I'm not going to let myself be influenced by the history but that's difficult of course okay any more questions no it's about the relation between Chamba and Shabani's art as I studied in Chamba yeah so when you look at the stylistic of of Asia you see something between Chamba so I really want to know like if you can find any instructional evidence on the side of Chamba to support this one because like we at Vietnamese we tend to look at the covers of Chamba instruction yeah and we find some instructions that mention the attack or like there will be this of Chamba and the Mandarin yeah so I want to know on the side of Chamba's instruction no not at that period no unfortunately no that would have been very nice of course not as far as I know you get references to Cham people but that's as far as I know in a slightly later period you get references to Chamba people people from Kaling various types of people but it's later unfortunately there are not that many inscriptions from Central Java and the majority of the inscriptions are from the very late periods from the period of Kha Yung Wang Yi so that was the one who was connected with Laura Giondrán so that's also interesting actually because scholars or historians who are looking a little more historical perspective and are using these inscriptions a lot they suggest that it's that period when Java became powerful but to me and it's because then it seems they were trying to manage more then you can get that information from the inscriptions they're trying to control the larger regions this is based on these inscriptions in the earlier time period you do not get so much of that inscriptions but I do not see in that later period where these people who use inscriptions see this centralization I do not see it in the arts I do not see this centralization in the arts it seems to me they were working on Laura Giondrán and then on a few other temples that seem to retreat to upper regions so that's interesting also sounds like there's a party happening at 7 so well thank you very much Marika and thank you all for coming