 I'm Marcia Joyner and we are Navigating the Journey and today we are going to Tulsa, Oklahoma. That's where everybody is focused on Tulsa. And this time last year we did a video with Theo Alexander and because for one thing he is the only person I know that is a real live descendant of the people from Tulsa that were involved in the massacre. So Theo, Theo, hi. Hello everybody. How are you doing? All right. So you're all the way in Tulsa. Yes, coming live from the ULSA. How's it going out there? Well, I mean, it's beautiful. You know, it's always good to be here amongst your friends and family that know you, watch you grow up and given this turmoil of the times. I mean, it's good to see people still, you know, out fighting for the right, you know what I'm saying, to live and to enjoy, you know, and to be in harmony. We need a lot of that right now. So tell me, is Tulsa getting ready for the Orange Man in the White House to come? What's it like? I would say yes, but really what Tulsa's preparing for Centennial of the 1921 Race Massacre Riot. So as we approach the date next year, we're planning some things this year along with the Centennial Commission to be able to show people what happened, what has happened since then, and what we're planning. So I don't think the gentleman in the White House has as much, you know, credibility with us as far as what we're planning on doing to show that we're still alive. We're still planning towards rebuilding Tulsa and that's the focus right now. We have a lot of attention on Tulsa, maybe because he's coming, but right now I'm focused on what Black Wall Street is going to do to rebuild. Well, now we're going to run the video that you and I did this time last year, where you talk about the whole what happened because I've read a lot and I like what you said as a descendant and as someone that knows firsthand. So most of the stories are what somebody read and somebody wrote. Anyway, so if you will stay with us and Eric is going to air some part of what we did last year. Okay. Okay. Okay. Stand by. Was the Black Wall Street. So Theo, thank you so much for coming back. Thank you for giving us a firsthand account, you know, that because most of what we read is written by the conqueror, the people that actually created the riot, that we don't get a sense of what the riot was like, the massacre was like, except from people who, well, you're as close to firsthand as we can get, but your ancestors, your family went through this. Now, just to give you a background, this was 1921. May 30. And Tulsa at that time. Was that Greenwood? It was the Greenwood District. It was unbelievably successful. It was a Black neighborhood with doctors and lawyers and dentists and pharmacists and banks and schools, hospitals, libraries, all of these were Black owned. Gorgeous place. And that's why it was called Wall Street, Black Wall Street. And also Little Africa. Little Africa. That was another nickname that was attributed to Black Wall Street. So tell us about the success of this area. Black Wall Street was centered in Tulsa, Oklahoma, in the districts of the streets, Greenwood, Archer, Pinewood, the streets that, you know, cordoned off the section of Black Wall Street. In the heyday, late 1800s up to 1900s, Oklahoma was started to welcome settlers who were free Black slaves to open territory. This is prior to it being called Oklahoma, settled as a state. It was a place where, it was a place of refuge for a lot of people escaping the South in the tragic slavery situations that was going on, along with the Jim Crow. So they settled in Oklahoma and they established Tulsa there and also developed into what they call a Black Maca. Prior to any other state having any kind of conservable Black wealth being shown as success even during those times of oppression and slavery and things like that and also coming out of World War I. A lot of people in the war effort brought their families there to settle and the fortunate thing was Oklahoma had a large oil reserve also which has one of the best ports, one of the most successful ports. This is what contributed to the wealth also which was Black owned and it was considered the wealthiest place on the planet at that point in time in 1921 with the oil reserves and also with the bankers and success of doctors and lawyers. Many who contributed to first time inventions or first time surgeries things like that. We were very fortunate to have Oklahoma or prior to Oklahoma's territory to have that land below the Mason Dixon line even settled by successful Blacks and we were doing our thing back then. And so your family was in this area in that city or town. Well it was part of the city but it was a district is that correct? Yes it was part of Tulsa, North side of Tulsa. If you look at the city grid of most states in the United States only two only clue cities that are settled by Blacks are set on the North side of the town. North side is usually contributed to Caucasian wealth and things like that so Memphis, Tennessee and Tulsa, Oklahoma was the only two cities that were set up in the North which was the affluent section. Yes my family came up from Northern Texas in the early 1800s. We settled in around the Bristow and Langston area and at the age of five my parents moved to Tulsa, Oklahoma. This is early 70s and so we settled there and we were I wasn't aware of the Tulsa massacre to the age of 13. A lot of times it's swept under the rug like you said the power was to be the tell the story the newspaper owners and things like that broadcast stations in that era in the United States across the United States there were similar events happening. I know you talked about the Elaine massacre recently. Yes. You had Rosewood in Florida. You have a series of events happening in the early 1900s until the mid 1900s. I would dare say that we still suffer from some of those things and some of those policies today even as we see innocent Black death being taken by a law enforcement officer in no regard for Black life. So how did this massacre begin? The story goes there was a gentleman by the name of Dick Rowland just an entrepreneur in the area because it was segregated at that point in time. You could only use certain bathrooms at the top of the tower where the incident occurred. There was a restroom that was for color. So you had to take the elevator with an operator up to that where the restroom was on to be able to do that. So Dick Rowland which is one of the young men who entered the elevator cart and back then they had elevator operators as I said. I believe the lady's name was Sarah Page, a young white girl. Well it's told that when Dick got onto the elevator he missed his step because he was off in practice to intimidate or oppress or cause injury to Blacks at any cost. So it was said that the elevator operator stopped the floor prior to it leveling off and when Dick Rowland walked onto the floor he stumbled into her and she let out a scream. At that point in time that occurred when you were a Black man there was something dealing with a white person. You had some detriment coming your way even your family. Yes. So when that incident occurred both of them entered the elevator. Dick went one way she went the other way and soon to come a lynch mob formed to come apprehend him for assault or rape that's what they were saying of a young white girl at that point in time and it just transferred you know from a lynch mob to anger as far as the seemed like the whole county also convened on Black Wall Street at that point in time with local law enforcement and collusion with you know the court and off the street after the lynch mob had formed and it was a series of incidents that happened. Black wealth was not to be taken for granted at that point in time we knew the time that people were living in and so we wanted to protect our wealth and at that point in time in the United States it was not illegal you know you didn't get any kind of repercussion for killing Blacks at that point in time. He's still down. Yes it was an average of two Blacks that were lynched a week and even by newspaper and postcard depiction you know that's how we know some of the things that were happening at that point in time but so the people in Tulsa were not going to stand for that so we had a lot of World War I veterans there were a lot of entrepreneurs the pills of the community the the pastors of the church things like that and there was an armed guard that stood guard at the courthouse or the jailhouse where Dick Rowland was being held it was common practice for a lynch mob to come right to the depths of the judicial system or the courthouse and the law enforcement would turn the person over for them to be lynched in the public so a series of lynchings set going on probably that week and Tulsa was not going to stand for it and so they're shot fired we don't know who's fired the shot there's many different stories said but white lynch mob Black mob protecting the life of Dick Rowland and things transferred you know transpired after that it was very drastic. So how long did it take how long did all of this last? It lasted a series of four or five days total the first day being the most devastating because people were seeing the planting that went out the National Guard was called in Marshall Law was called and World War I veterans you know there were white plansmen that were in the area were very very jealous I guess they despised the wealth of Black Wall Street and Tulsa, Oklahoma when some of them were still living you know on dirt mattresses what do you call the hillbillies and so at that point in time you know the Klan was very strong the Klan was reinvigorated as a union group because there was a lot of out of work white male war worked one veterans so they did collaborate they deputized those type of people and they already had their guns from World War I because it was all common practice to bring guns with you no one took them back government didn't want them so you were able to take them which enabled them to you know create a very devastating situation you know by having machine guns some of them pilots they have their crop dusters they drop napalm and fire well not napalm but other means of high flammable flammable fluids on some of the structures they bombed like Wall Street this is why you see the destruction that was so vast oh yes they bombed it but prior to bombing it they went in and looted the wealth a lot of these people were jewelers they were bankers they were not impoverished people so they took that oh boy it's kind of yes it's hard-wrenching but it is it is it was happening across the nation it is my mother was at Fisk University and she says there was a lynching every weekend this is Nashville and she said there was a lynching every weekend just outside of town yes and the mob would come the local folks would come and they would take souvenirs from yes the lynched person like their ears or whatever yes and that was that was what took place the savagery that took place because also with the Native Americans you know in the Indian Wars they did the same they bought scalping and things like that so taking souvenirs was something they intended to do and then the tragedy even is that when they were lynching they would bring their children to watch and some of the postcards depicts the people smiling and having fun as someone was being roasted over a fire while being lynched at the same time so we had a very very savage history in our nation but this is 1921 less than 100 years ago we're coming up on a centennial of that event and Tulsa's planning passed that event Black Wall Street never regained its wealth at this point in time we're still investigating exactly how many people were murdered and even upon the murder of so many even when people went back to reclaim their their own land and to borrow money to rebuild there was ordinances and legislation put into place where insurance was not made available to any of the people who came back to reclaim their own property or to reclaim the property because of the massacre because of the looting because it was being burned down so in in effect that was exactly what they intended to do to just wipe it out yes you know and so this kid was an excuse he was definitely an excuse they used him as a scapegoat and did they kill him no he was apprehended he was also released like Roland I do I do believe he's still if he's not still alive I'm not sure but um yes but it was said that him and Sarah Page were actually a couple she had just filed for divorce in this state she was coming from when she moved to Tulsa she gained a job and she started dating and she was dating a she didn't really understand that how strict it was sure she did well well she never pressed charges on dig they try to get it a press charges she never pressed charges but the mob ensued anyhow using as an excuse of course yes but they actually have children together they they settled in another part of Oklahoma and actually had children I guess they lived their life but um that's an unknown story I can't really verify that but people in Oklahoma we understand that wow wow wow wow that is such a story we um I just want to put in a little caveat you mentioned Native Americans from the day that Christopher Columbus put foot on what is now the Bahamas and then into Cuba and he saw the indigenous people decided that they would make good slaves and took them back to Spain but he also introduced diseases which wiped out all of the pianos that they they don't exist anymore and from that day to this we have had and that includes Hawaii and Guam and every place else we have had white supremacy and it marches and marches and marches across wherever they can go yes and so you know and then what they did to the Indians is just insane just insane so I'm sure I'm sure where you are in Tulsa which was Indian land yes yes I mean it's it's very unfortunate that our our our country has such a devastatingly horrific um history when it comes to encounter with indigenous people these are the people who made the land what it is these are the people who made the land as beautiful as Columbus could imagine when he appeared when he when he came up to the shores and any other the explorers that you know rediscovered whatever they rediscovered but my issue with it is what has been done since then I mean if you think about the chicken pox in the blankets in the trailer tears if you think about what Columbus did with this panel if you think about fairly recent past the um just giggy experiments these are all things that were placed in front of us to run into and with the tragic outcome um like today COVID-19 and I'm saying we're being targeted but if you look at the states that opened up first there were the southern states there were the states with a heavy population of African-American people and let me add this that no one mentions um there are also the states that did not take Medicaid so those people have no medical no no today if you encounter COVID-19 symptoms or anything else that would hospitalize you it's almost a detriment to you to visit the hospital center ER health center in fear of catching COVID-19 or not giving them getting the resources or the services to be able to combat it you know either as a healthy individual or someone who's compromised by their health pre-existing conditions I mean like you said the Obama care or affordable care act policies have been rolled back to the point where we have millions of people back with no health insurance if you don't have a job some even if you have a job you can't afford it so it's unfortunate that with these protests and if you've seen any of the news currently there's an uptick some of the states have doubled their number of new cases per day to also being one of the cities that are being you know discussed about that and with this weekend coming with um you know with 45 coming it's going to be pretty pretty bad I mean we have good very good health resources here hospital systems some of the best in the nation but our health code and providing services to people who are of color or people who are you know foreign citizens and even people who are just in the minority status you know we've never had adequate health care across the nation and people wonder why we are predisposed as far as conditions and we're twice as likely to die of certain things without everything COVID-19 is just another thing on the list you know and the lynching has always been we've always had the cope with the lynching part of but the disease part of it we've kind of escaped you know what I mean so but today I don't know what's going to happen with this I honestly it is amazing to me and then not only is it a deal of not having health care but our people usually have those outside jobs transportation hospital care and nursing homes and all of those things of grocery stores and those people that are essential so they're out there and that's where you know they don't get to go home and close the doors and you know work yeah you know in the the myth of COVID-19 you know as far as african-american population we're bound to battle that because if you remember back in january and as it starts to progress through the nation and the the death rate starts to go up the new cases the diagnosis starts to go up as tests started I mean people were actually saying that and I was one of those people who was under the belief that maybe because melanin or any other advantage we have as far as our DNA and being healthy or healthy race overall but I was under the impression that maybe it wouldn't affect us as much you know but now that we see we're getting diagnosed and dying at almost twice the rate as any other race I'm just at loss of words that people don't really take that serious you know and I enjoy seeing and enjoy being a part of the protest for black life to matter but what are we going to do when we don't get health services when black lives don't matter well and that's a big thing across the country not only for minority people but people in general for those states that denied Medicaid yes that it does not affect just us that affects everybody in the state and those are mostly southern states right you know not to detract from from what the discussion is today you know the focus of Black Wall Street and 45 coming it being Juneteenth you know I just caution everybody to take the safety precautions that's out in the CDC guidelines or the World Health Organization or your state or county health department take it serious mask up love up if you can you know and enjoy Juneteenth by all means but please don't render us any more in jeopardy than what we already have with one side being the lynching than the other side being COVID-19 threatening our populations well I think now of course you know if you've known me long enough to know I would think this way but the fact that they chose Juneteenth to have an event in any city but on that day and it's Tulsa and then they moved the Republican convention to July in Florida in the same town on the same day that they had the axe handle massacre July 27 somebody in his concern or his office or whatever has to know that that can't be a coincidence that has to be more than a dog whistle that has to be we're here you know and calling attention to that that that can't be a coincidence yes I mean there's a lot of strategy goes in the presidential campaigns as we know and he's a very strategic person I mean my first introduction to Donald Trump was reality TV being the king of reality TV and being you know very successful that as far as building his enterprise off the apprentice episodes he had a very you know a stupid group of young people and older people later on in life when he started letting celebrities come on but he had a pretty good poopy poopy people to build his empire on and I think he redid that successful and then he can almost handpick who he wants to speak in the way he wants him to speak and so I can't fault anybody for taking a check or making their living or doing anything but in today's time when black lives do matter when you see a public lynching you got to let that go you got to get on the right side of history at this point and with this rally hopefully a lot of people can see through some of the antics that are being proposed if you look at recent news and what's been happening with his ability to do any kind of foreign affairs successfully we have we're on the brink of a civil war right in 96 a lot of yes oh yes we are and this is before we run out of time give us the address of the centennial that um what am I calling this now it's the um the the black wall street um centennial it's it's actually the Tulsa 1921 race master centennial commission their kind of address is um I would just give the website out um yeah that website yeah so the website is Tulsa1921.org Tulsa to you lsa 1921.org you get all the information of all the things that they're planning in the events and activities oh that's wonderful that's a good address it's easy to remember right yeah well I think we are about out of time but I appreciate you spending this time with us again thank you for having me now Miss Nylons over there yeah well we were doing pretty good with the COVID-19 until everybody insisted on having the tourists come back and now every day the numbers go up every day all right and that's that's I think that's gonna be across the nation that you know I'm looking at the map right now I mean that's a lot to say you're doubling the cases you know saying more so than you had before so well we didn't have we had four or five here five there yes none on Linai one on Molokai but every day now we have I mean it's not like the mainland but anyway as as we open up we're bound to see more people so right yeah thank you for having me um Miss Joyner it's always a pleasure to see you and visit with you especially about issues of history and things that particularly involve us as a people in our climb our steady uh the uh release of oppression I guess you could say right next I'm glad to be alive in these days you know this is it's good to be young black man um to be able to see people realize your life matters well again I thank you so much and you got to come back to Hawaii where you just have to do that you know we miss you leave that I will be there short great all right thank you thank you aloha and we'll see you next time