 good evening. I'm going to call a meeting to order at 6.02. Shelly with us and Sandy Levine see anyone else in the select board. So we've got an interesting situation on our hands here. I'm sure most of you saw Sarah's email this afternoon or saw it on the news. The governor has not signed age 42 as of yet. So that means as of right now we have no ability to reconcile, well we haven't let me say this correctly, we have no ability to have an Australian ballot town meeting. What I'm going to propose is that we have a motion which says should the governor sign act 42 and allow Australian ballot at town meeting, we will go with Australian ballot. That would be the that would be the motion and then we have to consider this other we have to do our new do our new warning. I have not heard any I mean there's all kinds of stuff in the press but nobody seems to say you know is he planning to sign it? Is he not going to sign it? I don't know and then if he doesn't sign it then we're right back to where we were before this meeting. Now if the motion doesn't if that motion or proposed motion doesn't pass then we're right back there anyway. We're back to an in-person in-person meeting. Does that make sense to everyone? Are you sure that's legal? Am I sure? I'm just curious. Yeah. Well I don't know how else to do it Liz. I mean the other the only other way to do it is to adjourn the meeting and reconvene after he says he either signs it or doesn't but I hate to do that but that's that that I think is the other choice so I don't know what do you think? I don't know. I would just double Susan Clark thought that we weren't going to we were going to wait a day to vote on it so she wasn't going to join but she said I think she's going to sign on right now. I would just double check that there's nothing weird about that like agreeing to do something before it's done but whatever. Yeah go ahead Sarah. You could take a provisional vote. You can say and Susan and I talked about this so I didn't think we were going to wait but you can say if you can make a motion that says if this passes we will do thus and such if this doesn't pass then we will do that but either way you can say we'll approve we'll approve the warning if we do decide to go for Australian ballot we'll approve that warning and if we and if that's not an option then we'll approve the other warning. I mean you're not saying what would be illegal would be for you tonight to say have a motion that says we're going to hold meeting by Australian ballot because you can't do that right now. Yeah so what's driving the reconsideration I mean didn't we vote on this in the last meeting and it passed to hold it in person? Victor asked for it. Victor requested a reconsideration and I allowed it. Can we hear from Victor as to what his thinking is as far as asking for the reconsideration? Sure we can. Sure we can. Yeah my my thinking was that you know we still have we still have COVID around there's a lot of people that are have immune are their immune systems are compromised and cannot cannot attend like myself and so I just thought it was I just thought it was you know more prudent to see if we have this ability this year to defer the in-person meeting and go to Australian ballot and to give more people as we said get more people opportunity to be conscious or or devote in general. As you know Randy we all said that when we first talked about it I think Liz was first and she wanted in-person meeting and I said that I'd like to see Australian ballot because it gives more people an opportunity. I think Phil was next and said he agreed and I think Peter said he agreed and it was a pretty much you know we had four out of the five board members seem to be supporting it and then you then we talked about if we had a voice at a in-person meeting that we would put the article in and and it just changed kind of quickly and I still think our our health our health concerns really aren't met I mean I've got a choice along with maybe some other member here to either go to the meeting or just don't vote because of my health concern and I don't like that too well and I know some people have said that they really well I mean I don't know didn't you end up caring that you weren't too concerned about COVID Randy? Myself I believe that I believe that you know folks have had ample opportunities to be vaccinated if they so choose. I think that you know folks still have the option of wearing masks if they so choose. I don't personally feel that uh COVID in and itself is a reason to not have an in-person town meeting this year. That's my first feeling I understand that you may have you know different thoughts in a different situation um you know folks are typically going out in public um to do their shopping to do their banking to do all kinds of other things underneath you know the existing situation and and for me I just don't think we're at a point where um shifting from an in-person meeting strictly because of COVID is is something that I I feel is necessary. Is it just COVID or maybe another strain or maybe another respiratory possibility? I checked with I checked with Health Department of Health this week and they're you know they can advocate one way or the other but they said that the best the best uh possibility is of not contacting anything is to uh you know be distance and avoid large crowds. I mean use I I I when I go to the grocery store the bank or hey you go to the hospital this week all the things I did we were wearing a mask but to uh I don't I don't know is it's reasonable to think that everybody should wear a mask for whatever two or three hours for a town meeting when we really don't have to. I'm not saying I'm not advocating that people have to wear masks and and quite the contrary um you know if folks so choose to then that's completely up to them. Yeah I mean I I there's risk everywhere um and I just for me again I just don't feel like like the shift here is warranted but okay that's just I just I just have one other thought about all this and that is uh maybe germane to what we're doing tonight and maybe not but what I just to be clear what I believe I said at the last meeting is you know I think we're down we're headed down the path of going to Australian ballot however we get there and the reason I say that is basically all the reasons Victor and others have been saying I believe in democracy and I believe in participation and having the same or relatively the same small group of people every year make a decision on our town budget. I love town meeting I love the idea of town meeting but I don't like the idea of that of that very similar small group of people voting on the budget every year so and I know Randy you agree with me I'll get to I'll get to you in a minute so you know whether we whether we go in person this year and put that article on there and see what happens you know that seemed to me like seemed to me like one way to go on the other hand um I did have a fairly long conversation with our representative uh to the legislature and I pointed out this inconsistency to her I said it makes no sense to me that there is no mechanism by which we can vote on Australian ballot just on the matter of whether we want to conduct our town meeting business on Australian ballot and therefore get a much larger percentage of the town voters to tell us how they feel about it rather than rather than hope that or think that somehow you know at an in-person town meeting we're going to pass that article when obviously the people who are at time meeting are likely to be the ones who like town meeting and they're going to vote to keep it or likely vote to keep it so in terms of what we do this year to tell you the truth I'm right on the fence I ironically will not be able to attend an in-person town meeting because my immune system is going to be compromised so you know I'm going to be able to I'm not going to be able to vote if we have an in-person town meeting and I'm going to be able to speak but just you know speak on the speaker if we have an in-person town meeting and I can start about go ahead right I was just going to ask about the feedback that you received when you posed that in that conversation did you receive any real feedback on that no no what are you talking about uh his conversation with the representatives about uh the ability to to pose the question about australian ballot the the I shouldn't say I shouldn't say nothing Randy she agreed with me she said yeah I think I think that makes sense she said but unfortunately the mechanism to do this is that is act 42 and the day I talked to her that had already been passed by the house and going to you know the ship at sail now that isn't to say you know they can't put in another bill to allow that who knows she promised me she would look into it work on it and get back to me but of course here she is she's a freshman legislator she has no power she does serve on the judiciary committee which may be is interesting I don't know can I weigh in yes um so that you know I feel like it does sort of pose a little bit of a problem if we were to have it in person um you know if Vic didn't feel comfortable being there and Peter you're definitely not going to be there um Phil won't be up there representing us because he will be not on the board anymore um will he or not he won't be no he's still he's still on the board until 7 p.m. I believe um so it sort of leaves I guess that would leave if well then that would be three of us up there um and there is a point if um I mean it goes both ways right so if if the majority of the if if three out of two or four out of five board members want to put on you know want to move to Australian ballot for the budget vote and the special article vote by not having town meeting at least the way it stands right now by not having town meeting this will be put off for another year and maybe the legislature will act maybe the legislature will act maybe they won't and that's just the understanding that if we were to to put it off that this idea of moving away from or putting on the ballot um for the for the municipal and special articles is going to have to be postponed for another really two years right because you still have to have the town meeting and then you have to be 2025 right because in 2024 is when you have the vote and then 2025 would be the Australian ballot the next Australian ballot so the only I thought of and I don't know whether I don't know whether this works or not but you know we can call a special town meeting heard that season I'm just saying yeah yeah now I know it's like excuse me but I mean if if you really are pro-democracy you don't call a special town meeting for this you you know better than that Peter a special meeting is for an emergency and it's for when you uh when you have something that can't be acted on a timing with you I'm sorry I that that just felt this ingenious to me oh let's you know because you know you'll get us always we'll get a smaller turnout we're not going to have a special town meeting I just threw that out there I hate spec what is your thing is he there um yeah I yeah um I think I think Vic is raising a valid concern that we really didn't discuss a whole lot when we were at the meeting and when I heard that you had asked for reconsideration I in fact did think about you Peter and whether or not you'd be able to attend um I guess if if in fact the governor signs this within the next couple of days and we figure out how to do our kind of conditional votes um I I'm in favor of going you know back to the remote information meeting and voting by Australian ballot and then seeing what um what we might be able to do in the legislature to see if we could get some other support for the mechanism to change town meeting because that is really difficult right now but um anyway yeah okay so Liz where are you where are you on this um I can I can go either way you know I um I respect Vic and your concerns of not being there and I also sort of don't like the idea of um you know having you guys be remote at the meeting it would be better to have you in person um but that also means then what we have to do we have to plan an informational meeting a public informational meeting too right if we yes and so I'll I'll you know I I'll go either way I mean the other problem with a with a public information meeting is is that is that that can't can that be a can that be a hybrid meeting yeah that's that can yes that can be so we can that's the whole point is that the the is the whole point is that COVID and COVID prevents people from gathering in mass so in that case your informational meeting can be by zoom you know however you want it to be but that's only if h42 goes forward if h42 doesn't go forward then you don't have to have an informational meeting you'll simply have town meeting right and Sarah you said the timing on this is potentially by Thursday that the governor will so the the story is he's got five days to sign it if he doesn't sign it automatically goes into law so he's um if it just sits on his desk so if he doesn't sign it I suppose uh you know I the the story that I got from vt digger is that he may sign it tomorrow he will probably sign it he told the reporter I actually heard him by Thursday he'll make a decision if he doesn't sign it by Friday it goes into law because that's five days I see a victor hold on one sec victor yes you know yeah um yeah I talked with the governor's office today and they got it on Friday and she said that he has five days to do it and it would some decision will be made by I believe she said Thursday right and the other thing is it's you know uh our names have been thrown at this is it that been put out there as being compromised but I've also talked to some other people and it's not that just it's not just me it's on the on the select board um I spoke yesterday with a 96 year old uh sex voter and he said that he voted but the only way he could vote is if he's you know they sent him a ballot he was it wasn't a matter of COVID it was a matter he was 96 years old and he wasn't going to stand in line out there and he wasn't going to set in the set in the school with uh with all the people that are there because he wasn't comfortable uh health wise either um another person just down the road by Phil says that his wife was was uh you know compromised and he wasn't going to go but he he voted he votes every vote I think the big issue is there's I don't know is uh maybe uh well we don't realize how many people just don't go to town meeting um for health reasons other than COVID oh I think that's I think that's right so is there any other Susan do you have any Susan Clark do you have anything else you want to say on this issue hi guys um yeah I think this is a really important conversation and it sounds like you're you you could go in any any I get it it's really on the fence and it could go in multiple directions I think that one of the things that's really the place that I'm putting my energy professionally and personally around public engagement is thinking about the whole year um and sort of zooming out um because when we talk really specifically about Australian ballot versus town meeting that's a um that's an either or and I um I really yeah and yes it is an either or and we and you guys need to make this decision in middle sex um if we pick um uh town meeting then we lose on quantity and that and Randy and Vic and you guys have been very articulate about that and it's absolutely true we get more people if we only do ballot so quantity is really important but quality is also really important and people in middle sex have articulated you've heard the whole long list and uh of all the reasons why we um meeting um together and deliberating on things you know I don't need to rehearse all of those they're both good they're they're both good and it's this is like crap it's the good guys versus the good guys you know I don't want to have to choose yes we have to choose on Australian ballot versus town meeting but I don't want to trade off of quantity and quality I want us to find a balance and if that means we switch to Australian ballot but we have a really vibrant fall meeting where before you guys have made decisions on the on the budget we bring we have you know really interesting small group discussions that aren't so intimidating because you don't have to give speech where you talk about your values in the town or if it means that we keep our town meeting but we use consensus which are these little handheld things so you never have to vote by voice it's it's all um electronic there's so many cool creative things that we could be doing so I guess the advantage of um putting this off for a year would be that we could do some of that exploration which which a bunch of towns are doing right now I was just talking with the the the rural caucus at the legislature right now and there are a bunch of towns that are like having the same question same same uh discussion no we're not the only ones and there is an only one answer I think that both I I really value both of you sides but I I would love if the I would love the select board um to be thinking sort of about their their leadership role and being able to you know and not not that you guys want to do the work but you know inspire the work um so that so that the communities can think of the community can think okay if we switch about it how are we gonna you know keep keep people keep people so one thing that I've been I've been thinking about which is right along the lines you're talking about is you know traditionally is we all know information meetings are poorly attended right so how do we create at the very least and I'm all for other other things too but how do we create an information meeting which is going to attract a broad group of people from the community because if all we get is six people at the information meeting yes it's a legal requirement but it's a joke but if all of a sudden we got a few hundred people at the information meeting then it would be meaningful well and yeah and that goes back to not that we're going to solve this tonight but that goes back to Frank Bryan's research at UDM he he just said that the the fewer things we have to decide the um the fewer meaningful issues that we have to decide at our 10 meetings the more 10 meeting participation will go down so he blames you know legislature for that but um what that means is maybe the stuff we're asking people at 10 meeting isn't the most interesting thing to be at maybe it's not the thing they trust the select board to make a good budget vote on that by starting about fine rubber stamp but what we really need their input in uh on is um well like for example this town hall thing that we're deciding right now that that's going to take not only creative thinking but also creative fundraising because the tax base cannot support the kinds of infrastructure that our town wants and so let's go to large donors let's go to grant making and present them with a united front show them that middle sex is all on the same page and we you know yeah we have our differences but we can work through them donors give to success so how can we you know as a community be asking people questions that they actually care about and want not the gravel budget you know like because we trust you on that you know that's stuff that they actually know about so I think we're we're getting down to a little bit of of uh beating the dead horse here unless somebody else has something doing different to uh to add to the discussion is somebody willing and ready to make a motion yeah I'll make the motion that uh in light of uh the governor signing uh I think it's age 42 this week that we will go to uh Australian ballot uh town meeting I think that's all I have to say and the motion should should I believe say that it's for this year only which is all we have the authority to do that's fine yes of course that's for this year only okay is there a second to that motion okay okay um so it's been moved and seconded that we uh with the contingency that the governor signs act 42 uh that we will go to Australian ballot for this year's town meeting and uh then we will go ahead and make a decision about whether we're going to mail out ballots and also review the warning that we need to create for that for that meeting uh so all those in favor of that motion raise your hand or say hi hi hi hi ready or no I'm a no okay so it's it's four to one the motion the motion carries and we've uh and we've made our decision thank you thank you I mean this this is a really tough uh it's a it's a tough one it's a tough one for me but uh I really thought a lot about this after uh after the meeting and I thought you know I just really wonder if we were doing the right thing so anyway we've we've done it so we need to move on to uh Sarah prepared a warning for the Australian ballot I've prepared two warnings and I I think you guys should vote on both just in case something happens to H 42 okay we need to go one at a time or can we do them both together I would do them one at a time okay well the one I have in front of me I didn't I didn't print out the uh the other one I apologize I don't have that in front of me but I have the I have the one the Australian ballot one not the in-person one but I believe yeah I just want to just do want me to explain explain the difference between the two of them or that'd be great yes okay so besides the opening which uh notes that the voting will be in town hall and uh you know in sites at x 42 instead of saying the pit that'll be at Romney at four through 33 shitty real road we don't have article three which is to receive and act upon the reports of town officers because there will be no article article three and we do not have the six articles six and seven as appear on the floor vote um hold on the word we don't have articles seven and eight that as appear on the floor vote uh but well warning which is shall the budget article be voted by Australian ballot immediately after the budget decision and shall the public questions be voted on Australian ballot immediate after the previous article decision so those are not going to be on there and otherwise otherwise it's the exact same of course there's nothing about uh to transact any other business that may legally become before the meeting so that's not there but other than those are the those are the differences so article three seven and eight three seven and eight are in the in the from the original ballot from the floor vote are gone they've just been renumbered onto the Australian ballot so um does the motion have to be kind of an either or i mean because we we really can't warn approval of two i know it sucks so let me so if okay let me let me just take a stab at this in the event that the governor um assigns oh is it act 40 yes act 42 then or it goes into law i think maybe because he could not go into law right then now i'm waiting so it seems it seems like this is going to happen one way or another i guess what he can do is he can read he can um he can he can veto it and then you'd have to get then it would have to go back to the legislature and there would have to be a majority majority vote i think of some sort pass it right um override yeah whatever so but yeah let me let me let me try let me try this i i think we can do one motion and the motion is if the governor signs act 42 or and it comes into law we adopt the warning for the the revised the revised warning for the Australian ballot if not and we're back to having an in-time meeting we approve the in the time meeting uh can we do that sure sure we're not covered all your faces i mean that because i don't think we can approve too so but you're right now we're not it's gotta be something happens we approve this one if it doesn't happen we approve the other one right as long as you get that in the motion because that's what you're you're not saying we're approving two warnings you just put you're saying an either or situation yeah it's an algorithm yeah so can you make that a motion i can make it a motion when you do when you when i when i write the minutes okay was that a motion well i'm hoping you were making the motion i was just giving it to you okay i'm making the motion as peter stated it okay is there a there a second for that motion i'll second it okay thank you victor all all in favor of that that carefully crafted uh warning that our clerk is going to prepare for us please say aye aye any opposed okay i just want to i just want to be clear not to believe or this but you do realize if we do have town town meeting we will be asking those questions of the voters from the floor you understand that right everybody's clear on that yep okay okay um so we have one more thing to consider and that is uh are we going to send out ballots to all non-challenged registered voters are we going to ask people to request ballots my feeling on that is if we're doing this we should send out the ballots and i know there's expense involved in doing that but i just think it's the right thing to do yep i agree yeah i'd make a motion to send out ballots to every non-challenged voter active active non-challenged voter okay second um all in favor of the motion to send out ballots to all non-challenged voters please say aye raise your hand aye and he knows okay take second to that yes great okay so i hope and pray we've done the right thing guys i think we have i think we have and i appreciate everybody's thoughts time and attention i mean there's no matter what there's going to be more work to do on this issue and i appreciate uh susan clark's thoughts and we all need to be thinking about this but uh right now nobody said i can't have a cocktail yet so i'm going to go have one and have my dinner and i'm looking forward to it so i will adjourn the meeting thank you all for your time and attention have a game