 All right, thanks for staying with us now, referencing a publication in The Guardian about seven years ago, Nigeria's rallied behind the all-progressive Congress as the APC. It changed, and it's changed mantra to elect President Muhammadu Buhari as a rebuke of the maladministration of incumbent President Goodluck Jonathan and his People's Democratic Party. It was the first time a party in power and a sitting president had failed at the polls and expectations were really high on the incoming president or government. Now, but seven years down the line, even Buhari's loyalists are scandalized by the ineptitude worsened by the unparalleled nepotism and sectarianism. Now, by sheer negligence of police and armed forces, banditry, kidnapping, terrorism and other shades of criminality are wider than ever before. Economic woes are soaring and inflation have also worsened poverty, as more Nigerians dropped below the poverty line in the last seven years. It is indeed a country worse off than it was in 2015. And given a national assembly that could not be bothered, Nigerians are looking forward to a fresh start in 2023. Which is why today we are asking what leadership should Nigerians be expecting? What do we really need in terms of leadership? Now, please, let's hear what you have to say. Remember, you can join the conversation, send us an SMS or WhatsApp to 081 803 84663. You can also tweet at us at Weissho after one of the hashtag Weissho. My guest is doing sign of the cross. Don't worry, you'll be all right. But let me quickly hear your thoughts and I'll bring in our guest. What do you think, right? Because as it is now, and as you see this conversation, I will keep having it because so that tomorrow when they say, what happened, what happened, I will tell you that I said it too. We don't need a messiah. We don't need a messiah. But hey, what do you think? What do you think the leadership structure that would suit what currently Nigeria is facing? What kind of leadership do we really need? I don't know about the structure. I know about the character traits of the person. If we want to answer this question, then we have to ask what is leadership? Who is a leader? What are the qualities of a good leader? So if I would name just only three, I would say number one, a leader must be able to influence. You understand and inspire his or her followers. So if you have a leader or leadership that is not inspiring the followers, and that's no leadership, a leader must have empathy. That's the able to understand. You understand the plight of their people or their followers. And then the third point I would like to bring is integrity. This is non-negotiable. It's one of the most character traits that this leader must possess. So if you look at this, then we'll now make up the person, who a leader is supposed to be. And we can start thinking about the kind of structure that we can look at. How do you get your thoughts on that one? Well, I would tell the line of money because leadership in Nigeria, even though you were saying about somewhere in between democracy. I think part of the qualities that I believe Nigerians need is transparency. This is something that has been grossly lacking in the crop of leaders that we've had so far. And then the three C's, I would like to put it that way, commitment, character, and competence. We're not just looking for somebody who wants to just answer that they're a leader. From the example that you showed, the things that you do. Because it is what the people see, that they can emulate, that they can follow. So if you're an example of what you say, and you're saying that this is the direction that will lead us to be able to attain certain results that will be beneficial to us as a nation, then it can help. So when we find leaders that are towing this line of transparency, of having character, the right kind of character, and the competence and commitment to helping the people harness their human capital, their resources, to be able to gain value that can be commanded across the globe. Then we are heading in a direction that will make us global. I think so. Oladili Ogunlan is a program chairman of Project I Am Nigeria. Program I Am Nigeria seeks to challenge status quo and engage Nigerians to be the solution to our numerous problems, essentially by inspiring one another to accept and assume responsibility for the future of our country. This resolve is anchored on a quote that says, never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Now, he is no stranger to the house because he's been here a couple of times, and he's joining us again tonight. Thank you so much for joining us this evening, Oladili. Thank you very much. The handsome Oladili. Yeah, I was going to say that the picture that you sent in just didn't do just well. I think you should go take a professional headshot, 40. So a lot has changed. I mean, he's enjoying it more now. We actually have issues. But thank you so much for having this conversation with us. I mean, we don't take it for granted when we invite guests like you, and you give us a yes. It tells us that, you know what, people are still ready and really passionate about driving the right conversations that Nigeria needs at this time. And that's why the conversation, the topic, is geared towards the need. So it's not about what we want as a people. What do we need is completely different, right? So that when we're looking towards the 2023 elections, these are the parameters that would use, you know, in electing our leaders, right? So if you were to analyze and looking at the states that Nigeria currently is, what do you think the leadership, the leadership style or the leadership structure, whatever it is, should look like that would really bring Nigeria out of this quagmire? Okay. Thank you for having me again, even though you rarely ever give one an option to say no. But it's okay. It also helps some of us to actually come out instead of sitting behind the key and then just... I believe that. I'm going to play around what you've asked because there's so much. And, you know, over time, when we say these things, they begin to sound like cliches. But we will just have to find a way to keep saying them because I believe when they say hearing and hearing and hearing again, you know, pound it in and then we'll one day hear. But the truth is the leader must love Nigeria and Nigerians. A leader, our leader must love the people. And, you know, yesterday I had an interesting conversation with a couple of friends. And so let me start with that. It's a pyramid. So when you draw that pyramid at the peak of the pyramid, whoever is at the top of that pyramid, everyone can see. Now, whoever is at the top of that pyramid becomes like a model. Okay. Now, we have to be intentional about who we put at the top of that pyramid at all times because that becomes the model. And so we have our children looking to that model. So if we have put the model up there, why do we frown at our children trying to be like the model? So something is wrong. There's a disconnect somewhere. You know, so that is, I'd like us to start looking at that, you know, because it's very important. We're at it again and we should be looking at the type of people we want to put up there. Because then if our children, you know, it's like me saying to you, I'm not asking you to answer, but it's like me saying your children will become like our leaders. That's what I'm saying. So it's our responsibility to be able to say amen. You know, we can't just leave it. So that's why I'm saying that it may sound like a cliche, but we have to keep saying it. What does Nigeria need in a leader? We need someone that is exemplary. We need exemplary leadership. We do. We need good governance in Nigeria. We need someone or people that can efficiently manage our resources. And we need someone to redeem our moral core. That's what we need. Now, what type of person? Okay, so we need a person that has a personal conviction. You know, someone that is prepared to champion these things. Someone that is ready to even lay down his life. Someone must be ready to die for this country. Now, we need someone that is also value driven. Someone that has moral standards of integrity. Someone that holds patriotism as very important. I mean, you can't begin to say that you're patriotic and the slight cash you have, you take it out. No, not out of the country. Because I sat there and I was just putting down a few things because I don't want to, because I know you'll soon end this thing. I want people to say as much as I can. We need someone that is courageous, someone that is dynamic, someone that can actually envision. So not the same or not someone that just does a plug and play. We need someone that has respect for the dignity and the rights of every Nigerian. A reformist leader. Nigerian needs someone that is high and strong, emotionally intelligent, quotient. We've taken too many things for granted. It's as if we don't even care. You know, we need someone that is equipped enough to be his own master. Yes, agreed you're going to have a team to work with, but you must be that someone that has a brain. You know what I mean? Decision making. Yes, and you must be energetic. You must be well connected. You must be able to pull from within and outside the country. And then you, whether you like it or not, you've got to be youthful. You must be able to connect. You've got to be able to connect with the young people. And so you must have a teachable spirit. Because you're not always right. Yes. So you must be able to open up to new thinking, to innovation. You must be able to hear. And that's really the one big challenge. And another very important thing, I picked that up, you must inspire confidence. You know, you know what it's like when your leader shows up? It gives you some confidence. It should give you that confidence. Sense of pride. You know, and I haven't felt that in a while. You know, we need a leader that is tolerant. You know, that has empathy for the people. We need a leader that is also able to identify skill sets in people and pull together resources. It's a lot of work to be a leader. We need to have a leader that can carry everyone along. You know, there has the capacity to get things done. But above all, very important, we need someone that at some point knows when to put politics aside and begin to face governance. Thank you. I just felt like my blood was pumping faster because I always tell people I am Nigerian. Like when I say I'm Nigerian, I mean I'm Nigerian to my bones, to my blood. So when I hear people talk about Nigeria the way you have just talked, it just really gets me high. So you have talked about a lot of qualities. You've talked about everything we've talked about when we started talking. You've said so much more. And one thing I know is if you go for any leadership course, especially in very, like Ivy League universities abroad, they teach you all these qualities. I have a friend right now that is in Harvard and everything you said, I've heard him say it and you know, different things. So we have so many academics in Nigeria. We have people going abroad to learn a lot of things. So we have people who have been trained to possess all these qualities that you've just talked about. Why are we not seeing those people in front? The traits you just talked about are traits of a leader, not a follower, a leader. So we already have people that have been baked and ready. So why are they not coming out? Why are they not in front? What are we going to school for? Why are we getting all these degrees and getting all these trainings and yet we don't come out to lead? It's very simple. We are aware, but we don't know. If you listen, if you watch the video of the Education Minister, the Ghana Education Minister, he said something very profound. We are framed to just hear and regurgitate. So he said he spoke with the students and he said any questions and not one. Because they are tutored. It's like slavery. To hear and then just regurgitate and they hail you, you've passed. Sadly, that's how a lot of us grew up. But the children now ask you questions and you must answer. I remember, okay, I'll say it. I remember once my father and I were having a conversation and he got to a point and he said, I'm your father. And that's the way we were brought up. Because we were brought up because to believe that the adult knows much more. So he said, I'm your father. And at that point, I was not in a good place because I was tired of that attitude because that's the same thing we see in governance or in leadership or in leadership. So I said to him, I said, if that is it, then there's really no point having this conversation. And then I said to him, I said, and this is the reason why we go to school. So that we can learn, we can query things, we can ask questions. So we all get better when we ask. And again, I don't know if this flows well, but just now I was saying to you, so a circular went out and by this evening, the circular has been withdrawn. So is it that we didn't discuss it? Without people thinking. So do we query things before it goes out? The danger that people are failing to see is that when you consistently act in that manner, it reduces the regard that people have for your office. Yeah. And that's where we are today. Yes. You know what, let's go on a very short break, right? When we come back from that break, we will continue the conversation. Stay with us. All right. Thanks for staying with us now. If you just tuned in, we are discussing the leadership Nigerians need and we have with us Ola Dele Ogunlala. Please remember you can join the conversation, send us an SMS or WhatsApp to the rate one 803-4663. You can also tweet at us at Weishaw Africa, one with the hashtag Weishaw. I like normal to come in because I have a question that I would like to ask, you know, based off on the things that you have reeled out in terms of who we should be looking at the qualities, right? 233 is around the corner, we cannot run away from it. I was just going to say that. So we need to, we need to start, right, expanding the minds of young people. Because when you talk about an inspirational leader, you're talking about the charisma, you're talking about all of those things, and I'm thinking, okay, we already have the, what's it called, the ballot paper, like I can see the ballot paper, I see the list of the people there. Who can I really point to, to say that this is the kind of leader that Nigerians need at this time? Okay. So what you're saying is that this conversation is coming after the fact. But it's okay. We will always learn from it and we'll get better. But you see the problem we've always had is that we are constantly insisting on electing people that have built nothing. Okay. So when we do that, they get in there and build nothing. And then we ask questions, why? There's a disconnect, something is wrong with us. Yeah. You know, because we don't even query these things. When was the last time we got truly involved to even ask questions, make demands in all the weeks or maybe months that this process has started? Have you really heard the right questions being asked? We're not issue based. We're just going on things that are just, you know, and then I think by now we should be telling whoever it is that for this process, everybody, somebody will tell me now that it's not, it's not constitutional, but everybody must come and speak to the people. Yeah. It's very important. You gotta have people not show up. You know, it's enough of the non-challenged attitude to leadership and to the people. The people can no longer or should no longer be taken for granted. I hear in my head, as I say that, and that's because people, we've not learned to query things. We don't ask questions. We take a lot of rubbish and then we complain. I think the time has come and I'm really scared because it might not give us notice when this whole thing blows up enough because people just want to know it's tiring. You know, I don't know whether I can say, okay, I'll say it in a very nice way. I was talking to a friend today and you remember, I'm sure you know about the 80,000 Naira car charge. Yes, yes. The setbacks in your houses. Yes. And also, apparently, I hear that the letters that went to event centers talked about within. The parking lot? Yeah. So, I was talking to someone and the person was thinking about shutting down. It doesn't make sense if I have 200 cars, ports or slots in my environment. And you're going to be paid for each one of those. 80,000, that's 16 million. Yes, per person. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make any sense. You know, until you begin to wonder. They wouldn't think through that thing. That's what I'm saying. When you're doing things like that, you expect that there would be a public hearing. You expect that you bring stakeholders together. You expect that people will talk. You know, and then you just wonder, I kept asking myself today that am I not well? Because what you would expect is that, okay, so we need to raise revenue or we need to raise money. And so, why do we have parking lots that people actually pay to park? Absolutely. Or the setbacks or the parking spots outside of. To be made payable. Just meter them. Thank you. You know, just make life easy. Yes. Make it tolerable for people. It's just as hard as it is already. But you know, so these people that come up with these things, at the risk of even sounding, what's that word now? Okay, at the risk of sounding whatever, it's really not, I will not blame the leader. But he will get the blame at the end of the day because someone has to take responsibility. But you see, I blame the people that work with them. Because you see, some of these things may not get to them. Because it starts why after all of these things come up, then they now withdraw these kind of things. Now today, I'm here and they all know they said it's not for the cars in the parking lot. But then what does within mean? That's another matter. So they're looking at it again. So that should have come before. Even if you wanted to generate revenue as a leader, right, there are other ways. Like you rightly said, if you put it, if you put a meter there, somebody comes and parks there is no longer the responsibility of the owner of the property. So if I stay there 10 hours, I pay immediately, instantly. And my people make much more than 80,000 at the end of the year. Right? So it doesn't make any sense. Sometimes, I think that, you know, they put the car before the horse. It's not even sometimes, most times. So they put the car before the horse. And then, you know, when they have, when they have a goofed, they now try to find a way to redeem themselves. But let me hear a normal question. The car before the horse is, I think they just don't have the right people in the right places. That's all. So nobody's thinking. Nobody's thinking through. They're thinking. Nobody's thinking through. She warned me about this show that I must already be positive. Nobody's thinking through. Okay. That's a good one. That was the major question I wanted to ask in the place of leadership, that do we have the right kind of mean? Elections are down the road. Do we have the right kind of leaders now? But already it's, like you said, after the fact. Now, I want to pay attention a little to the followers. Right? It's one thing to have leaders or supposed leaders, but you also need to have the right kind of followers. So how do we begin to, because it's out of these followers that we're going to have leaders in the future? And if we do not begin to groom them in a certain way, then we will have a real occurrence of what we have in our reality today. So what do we need to begin to pay attention to? What do proposed leaders need to begin to pay attention to now so that there's some kind of continuity with the right kind of leadership, with the right kind of people in leadership? And what do we as followers or Nigerians need to begin to pay attention to if we want to see the right kind of leadership in our future? Okay. It's a process. Okay. I've always believed that Nigerians are timid. Nigerians are very timid. Nigerians, yeah, and I'll tell you why. Nigerians, if you put a law in place, Nigerians will quickly, no, but we like enjoyment so much that we don't want to be incarcerated. We don't want anything to, but you see Nigerians are also so smart. They test you. They still break the law. Yeah, because they test you. Consequences, there are no consequences of bad behavior, then you're even putting everything in a worse situation. There are no consequences. So you see, but they don't follow through consequences. Because, okay, so I believe, I agree that followership is also very key, but let's look at how we can deal with leadership, which hopefully will dovetail into the right kind of followership, even if it means that you fear your leaders. Yeah, but if we have the right crop of people as leaders, ideas will follow. Look, if you have a leader that believes in straight up transparency, do things right. I didn't want to say the, but you know, we had, we always remember, you know, if you have a leader that does that, it begins to go down, it will trickle down. Absolutely. And before you know it, well, someone that worked with Dora said to me that she actually set people in the office against themselves. So I'm watching you, you don't know. Somebody's watching you. So when you get to the office, everybody's behaving because you don't know if the person you're talking to is someone watching. So those are the kind of things we need to begin to do for ourselves. If it doesn't trickle down, it's not going to happen for now, because people have gone so way back into this badness. You know, badness doesn't even sound well, you know, bad dignity. So I was going to say, because I had said it earlier on that, you know, we've always talked about democracy, autocracy on this table, right? Because hearing you speak, right, and you are right to say that Nigerians are like, you know, one-way traffic. If we see somebody that the head is correct, everybody's head will be correct. If you see somebody that is going left, yes, it's correct. Yes, you know, so I mean, so what do we say around democracy and autocracy, right? I always believe, I mean, we always say that what he says is all the time, we cannot survive in a democracy in this country. We need something in between a democracy and an autocracy because as it stands now, we the corruption has eaten too deep. So we really cannot have a leader that cannot take a stand at some point to say, you know what, I put my foot down, this is how it's been going. We can't just have a leader for the people by the people, we have a leader that will hold King. King, do you understand? When he needs to hold King, then he now diplomacy when he needs to, but what are your thoughts? What are your thoughts? Do you agree with that? Honestly, things have gone really bad. So I don't see a leader with just the King working, unless we also put in place structures to tap into those issues of punishment. But I see if with the King, and I see if we have punishments, that will be executed. Like dead by firing squad. Like if you do, if you drive, if you drive in a certain way, you pay a big fine. If you do this, and people are actually caught, and they have to pay. Yes, people will change. I remember when they started this wearing of seatbelt. Ah, everyone who wanted to pay money, so we all started wearing the seatbelt. Meanwhile, when we were growing up, it was hip to wear belts. So it was easy for us to flew into it. But a lot of people started wearing the belt because there are consequences. In fact, let me tell you yesterday, I was just thinking to myself, why can't we, okay, it may sound wrong now, but hear me out. Why can't we just have something that says, okay, you're a policeman. If you are able to find someone that has broken the law or traffic, whatever, and you can, and we can, what's the word, we can prove that there's been an eruption. You get a star or something. That star translates to something somewhere down the line, you know, or even citizens. So they are looking at it because I want a star, a reward. One star might end up being a thousand naira, but it's not even about the money anymore. I got 10 stars at the end of this year because I was faithful in my duties. You've got to learn to begin to show people how to live right. Yeah, because a lot of noise is made every day, but there's nobody to enforce those things. So things just happen. And I believe that the more you make those noises and you can't enforce, you water down your authority. Yeah, it's true. It's like an experience that keeps striking your child. Exactly. And they never carry out the point of the child. I used to, for my life, I used to be in a daycare center. And so a child messed up. I said, why did you do that? And this was the first thing you did. Butter his hand. Yeah, stop talking too much. You'll beat me, let me go. So that's no longer punishment for that child. So you take, you know, and so that's when you have people say, okay, if I do this, what's the punishment, 10,000 naira, then I do it. You know, so we've got to look at these things critically. And then it's always good for a leader to interact. Yeah, it's always good. I know there's a certain, I don't want to mention his name now. He was governor. He spent a lot of time with his people. Okay. But the only thing he did, which is okay, is that he would hear from them. And then he will go back and then he will speak as if it was from him. Yeah. Well, as long as he was doing it. Yeah, but he was doing it. And the people loved him for it because he was doing what they wanted, but he was talking as if he was thinking for the people. It's okay. So he sent them on an error and everybody was working for him. And he takes the glory, which is okay. We've got to just devise a way to get Nigerians to be serious and love our country. Yeah. So how do we begin to do that? Because we're wrapping up and the time is always short when we start to discuss. So what do we need to do now? You know, you are still dodging that my 2023 election conversation. We pretend that we pretend like we did not ask it. Did you? No, I didn't. You know, but I mean, it's here. Really, there's really nothing we can do. But if we say we want to start to engage our leaders, because I believe in dialogue, you have to keep talking. What would be the best approach for us as citizens? Because we have a role to play whether we like it or not on the eventual result and the turnout for how the events will happen afterwards in 2023. A lot of people are running away from the country. I mean, I know so many people that said, I'm only coming back in March after the elections. I'm not interested in staying in Nigeria. I mean, somebody was talking to me yesterday and said, oh, a family friend of his just moved the wife and the children to the UK just yesterday at the last month or something like that. So this is the reality. Nigerians are afraid. They feel like a lot of things will happen in this 2020. I don't believe that it will be violent. But I just want to like what would be the best approach, right? Because there's a lot of propaganda happening. Don't forget. A lot of people are throwing different stories on social media about different candidates and all of that. All of those things are happening. So how what would be a smart approach to what's the coming elections and how should Nigerians start to prepare for what is coming? I think that platforms like this have a very critical role to play because we've got to there's a lot of noise out there, but we've got to be able to, you see, those are distractions. Absolutely. They are calculated to be that way, but we've got to find a way to keep returning the conversation to issues and things that will change that are constructed. So they let them talk about it, let them do skits, let them do welcoming back. Okay, so what have you said about these issues? And I think it's very, it's not too late. It's very important to do it now because even those that are not thinking about it yet, they will start thinking about it because they find out that suddenly everybody wants to know the conversation is a must because you can tell the body language and the vibe you're getting, these people are not prepared to discuss anything issue-based. We'll just do the issue of noise. This one says it's my turn. This one says we've been marginalized. This one says, you know, so there's no body that is really dealing with the critical issues in Nigeria. This is Nigeria. We're on the brink of whatever. How do we get out of this? You know, and that's why I said after a while we stop playing politics and then we begin to look at governance. Absolutely. Let's quickly take comments ladies because we're running out of time. Go ahead. Okay. All we need in Nigeria when it comes to real leadership is nothing but commitment to duty, dedication, wholeheartedly, and most of all the courage to abide by the rules of the land. Finally, leaders must take responsibility. Bobby Kennedy, Jalingo. Thank you. Thank you, Bobby. So this one is from Ade. Ade says, good evening ladies and gentlemen in the studio. How do we pass a bill from 60 years of age? You don't contest for public office. From 65 years, the energy or strength of the governance is gone. We need a visionary leader in Nigeria, a leader with a vision of faithfulness to serve, not a missionary leader that wants to enrich their pockets with public funds. Nigeria will get there if we introduce a contracted agreement of public office contester. Yeah, I think they are both 60, can just be there as a consultant. We use their wisdom for what we need to do. You didn't name my dear beautiful sisters or what are you saying? The leadership Nigerians need from time immemorial. Nigerians have never had good leadership. They're selfish people who are interested in occupying an office, but know that they cannot deliver. Nigerians need a leadership that will keep to their promises and give them what they want. This present government promised heaven and earth and filled us with it. It's very sad. My name is Daniel Iluwez, regular. Thank you Daniel. So we can't trade our democracy again under an authoritative administrative, I think it's supposed to be administration. We need all, we need and all around innovation. All around innovation, aspect of our economic development. This is from Adebo Lanley Rosalina on YouTube. Okay, so you have the final floor. Okay, you remember that quote that never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Someone tweaked it a bit. I was looking at it early on and he said there's a word that is missing and that word is organized citizens. He said so it should be never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, organized citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. He said because that all you need is passion, commitment, good intention, disruptors, challenges, change will happen is wrong. That invariably what will happen is noise. Right, so he's saying that we have to remember that it's got to be organized. So do not underestimate the need for a good mobilization. Yeah, and there's a need to also orchestrate that. And then we begin to grow these things. It's not going to happen. I mean, nobody's saying it's going to happen like this, but it has to start. Absolutely. Sorry, with what you're saying now, when you talk about organized, you know what I just see? Structure? Like two years ago when we had these answers, then if we were really organized, we would have made preparations for different things, knowing that some other people would come to disrupt. So we make arrangements for, you know, eventualities and things will not have gotten out of hand. They might be more prepared. Yes. Okay, you know why that happened? Of course you know why that happened. Yeah, it was fun, so do you know why that wasn't a false thing? Enlighten us, please. Because it came. No, because at some point, and I also understand it, at some point they felt that they'd been let down by us. Okay, but what they didn't see is that it's a combination that will move us forward. Yeah, we would have told them these things will happen, but they didn't see it. We've lived with it. Yeah, that's why I said we need them as consultants. So we have to keep talking and being very strategic about the conversation, so it is organized and not just making a lot of noise. We keep on talking in the longer short term, but thank you so much Adal Dili for always answering when we call. God bless you. Thank you, Noma. Thank you, man. Now, before we go, and show you follow us on Instagrams at WeishuaAfrica, TikTok everywhere, just follow us like share, invite your families and friends to watch and follow the conversation now. You see this thing about Nigeria? Sometimes it gets us drained, but hey, we can't keep. Yeah, we can't stop talking about it. We'll keep saying what needs to be said. So if you miss today's Quote Heritage again, a good objective of leadership is to help those who are doing poorly, to do well, and to help those who are doing well, to do even better. I mean, leadership is supposed to transform any person, no matter the state you are in. So we are looking forward to a transformed Nigeria. It will happen, so let's keep hope alive. We'll see you guys tomorrow at 8 p.m. us to bring another great conversation to your screen.