 Hello. Thanks for rejoining us. It's the breakfast on Plus TV and we are being joined by a member of the independent Petroleum Marketers Association of Nigeria, Ipman and the person of Chief Uqadike to talk to us on the NNPCL's issue of oil marketers with fresh directive on refund and new prizes. Good morning and welcome to the program, Chief. My friend and good morning Nigeria. Okay. Nigerian National Petroleum Company Limited NNPCL has issued a fresh directive to oil marketers on how to go about getting their refund and the new prizes of petroleum products. Work us through what this really means because we do not understand how this impacts on the oil marketers and what the story is all about. Let's get on the inside first. Okay. Well, it's been a very, very trying time for us because independent marketers, our only source of petroleum product is NNPCL because they are the only people that supplies petroleum products and they are also supplied to the Dakman members. So we normally get our supplies from NNPCL and sometimes we also source from Dakman members when NNPCL run out of stock. We always look towards having the best price from NNPCL. So during this time of deregulation, our tickets were already in the system, we paid 8,100,000 for 45,000 liters of petroleum on them. But it had a price of 118,000. You know, the benchmark then was to sell at 195,194. Unfortunately, during this period on that review, Mr. President came in and made that policy statement. So and immediately NNPCL stopped supplying us. Most of us who have spent 1.8 million, 8,100,000 for a product since past three months have not yet received because NNPCL gave us directives that we should augment it. And augmenting it would cost us almost $30 million there, $30.8 million, approximately $40 million. You know what it takes in the Nigerian economy now and the banking system with this high interest rates. So it's probably very difficult for NNPCL, for independent marketers to cope in with this new directive. A lot of y'all go ahead. Well, a lot of your marketers are already lamenting, your colleagues are already lamenting that they will not be able to meet up. Does this mean that most of your members in the smaller downstream members of your group are going to go under? Yes, there have been protests. A handful of protests here and there and also an entire membrane by our members. They have besieged our offices at our national headquarters. And our national president has engaged them, a large number, has engaged NNPCL. Although what they were able to resolve from the meeting was the issue of margin tickets, since some of us have more than five tickets in the system, that it can be matched so that it can make up the phone. But we have issue of funding. Funding is our problem. Look at the huge amount of money we are going to invest on this product. 21.7 million, 21.870 thousand. And your profit is not up to even one million. You might take two, three months to sell one truck off, depending on the size of your station. And Nigeria's now minimizing buying petroleum products. Before, in a philly station, a philly station can sell up to 10,000 litres. 11,000, 15,000, 2,000 litres per day. And now most of those philly stations are struggling to even sell 500 litres a day. And it is the same diesel. We are buying diesel plus the same amount of 15 litres, 800 litres. And we are running the station, the same staff. So business is not good for independent marketers. And it is not easy because we are already paying back in interest. Some of our tickets have been there for more than four months. And then business have not given us supply. And then I said before we will carry it, we will also have to top it up with 18.7 million. So most of our members we are cheating. You know, that why don't you give us the ones who have paid already so that we will go and sell them because the money has been there for more than three, four, five months. Here in interest. And some of our trucks have immobilized to NNPC to be able to pick these products. And NNPC did not supply us. So is it our own problem that you didn't supply us as we went to? So why are we not doing the fresh up? But the management came out and said, no, that before you do any differential, that was that memo you are talking about. And before you do, you must do a differential to pick your product or they will give you your refund. And if they give you your refund, I also want to let you know that the sources of petroleum products in Nigeria has not been multiple. It is still, it is still mono. NNPC is still supplying. Even when this regression policy is being implemented, we are still at the mercy of NNPC. If are they doing that, or are they giving licenses to import all the reputation of petroleum products from other sources? We will not have, in many markets, we will not have authority. For us, I'm talking to you now. Our records, we don't have authority. Okay. But is this even legal? Because are you exploring any legal steps to recollecting this, your money, getting your refunds? Not even refunds, getting the products for which you paid. Because if you paid four months ago, except maybe you pay and say, whenever the product is ready, I can get it. But if you paid four months ago, expecting to have these products, that shouldn't be a cost that you should carry. So are you exploring any legal ways to address this issue, or are you just going to collect your money back or add the 13. something millionaire to get new products? We have constantly, in so many ways, approached NNPC. We have called them. We have discussed with them. We have also used our lawyer to write them. At that place, they should be able to revisit that template. Or even give us a discount based on incurring interest on the money we borrowed from back. But they are very, very adamant on this. And because we know, like I said, that the source of petroleum products is still monopolistic. And they still have NNPCs that supply everybody in this country. So we don't have any option. Then we have written them with our lawyer. They have not yet to reply. I want to continue to tie down there. Most of this, because of this increment, most independent marketers are going out of business. Because it's not even easy for us to raise 8.17 millionaire for the first place. We are now coming to raise to 1.17 millionaire to buy 45,000 liters of PMS. They are at the present rate of 494aire per liter. So it's a very, very trying time for independent marketers. We are almost out of business. And it's very decisive. We have been pulling the government and also other agencies to intervene in this issue. To see how they can be able to appeal to the empty of NNPCs to give us a discount. Even if it starts in NNPCs, it can also give us a discount. We are able to take our tickets. As I was talking to you now, some other private depots that have products and have tickets of our members also give them a discount. Some of them pay for NNPCs. I am able to pick up the product. So we have to push on the face of interest ruled from bank. Because by the time we are at the present rate of 1.17 millionaire, who also is selling at the loss because interest have already taken our profits. And you find out the marketer will be struggling to be able to recover his capital. Well, NNPC, our petrol import monopoly is the big thorn on the back or the flesh of marketers as you have repeated listed this morning. And there is this headline that says that marketers are moving to end NNPCL petrol import monopoly. Bring us up to speed on this move by marketers to end this monopoly that has been a major problem to you. Well, because we are not actually expecting the deregulation policy to be removed abruptly. That is why we were caught up in the web. But as I know, by last week when we had our national working committee meeting, we discussed that I also have applied to NNPCL for a license to import a product. I was also talking with some of our foreign partners to see the best way we can be able to import a petrol product and distribute. Like I keep on saying it, that independent marketer is the only channel that petrol products can be displayed in the new synchronization of this country. And we are holding the nation's 90% of the distribution and retail unless in Nigeria. With the highest storage facility. So it is where we are starting to go into importation. Like I said, we can have a lot of milliliters. We can have a lot of it. What we need is comparatively competition in this market to be able to reduce price. Because as I said, demand of supply determines price. And when we will have upon that supply of petrol products, I also want to bet you that the cost of petrol products will come due. Since our consumption has been cut off by the price and some neighboring countries are no longer sucking from Nigeria and reaping the dividends of subsidy. We were just wondering, just like Maureen asks, when we will get something definite. Because if NNPC is still in charge at this time after the subsidy has been removed, it is a worrisome thing. But how far have you gone? How close are you to the point where licenses will start to be issued? They will begin to issue licenses to independent people that might want to import fuel into the country. What have you done about that? How much is the level of engagement with the people that matter in that regard? Well, I still want to let you know that all this depends on government pedestals. We are able to issue those licenses and you cannot start importing petrol products without getting license from NDPR. So it is not on our own making or we can be able to determine when license will be issued to us. But we also ask the federal government to ensure that the process of issuing licenses for importation will be very risky because of the period we are finding ourselves. We are just trying to figure out of this trying time because the federal government wants Nigeria to face the reality. And also I believe that NNDPR will ensure that some of these licenses will be issued as per the last person. It is not only independent marketers. Major marketers are also sourcing their licenses to import petrol products. Even Thaipan Mephas also have gone to source licenses to import petrol products. Well, previously we independent marketers were having imported petrol products who are the imported AGU and all the rest of them. But we are having some challenges, little bit of back end challenges of recouping this forest pack to where we got the petrol products. Which is one of the slacks that we have. But I know that by now government will not find out the seamless way in whereby people can be able to recoup their money and transform it to forest so that they can be able to go back and import again. Well, smaller fuel stations will definitely fold up from what we are seeing with the kind of challenges that you and your people are having independent marketers. Tell us, will that also affect the availability of fuel? Well, definitely it will. But it will not be as significant as it used to be before. Because with this removal of this regulation, you will find out that the agurais are not protesting. Neighborhood countries who are using that opportunity to siphon products from Nigeria and now the borders are protesting. You will find out that anybody has cut down his movement, even using fuel in the aguraitos and all the rest of them. And the movement, Tupuna prefer to do some meeting than meeting in Udeni. So in Nigeria, we are trying to adjust. So in Nigeria, we are happy people. So we are trying as much as possible to be able to be happy with the kind of conditions we are finding ourselves. And I also believe at the end of the day, it will turn out very, very good. And it will also moderate the lives and way being of people. But I don't know how it's going to stop smuggling into other countries. Because obviously, whatever we sell in Nigeria, it is almost like double or more in neighboring countries when the petroleum products are taken there. And I'm sure that's why people smuggle these things to that place. So you now saying that our consumption has reduced because of what is happening now. What if these licenses are given to the independent marketers and they import this fuel into the country. And then they decide also to sell in the countries that will have more value, will give them more value for their products. How are you going to prevent that? Is it possible? Well, I will not say that if an product is being sold at 195 Naira, it just is very, very simple arithmetic. April is being sold at about 95 Naira. And in a neighboring country like Kemeru, Dogan or Resounden, it's being sold at 400 Naira and Nigeria. And now it's sold in Nigeria at 400 Naira, 500 Naira. I don't think business will be a solution. The rate of consumption there, if they increase the rate of consumption there, it will moderate the consumption there too. So it will also reduce the consumption at that particular place. So when you have excessive things, you use excessively. When the product is more 18 Naira, you can decide to burn your generator for four days without stopping. But now it's 500 Naira or a little bit less than 500 Naira. I don't think in Nigeria that is receiving money the way I'm receiving. We'll be able to lavishly use all these kinds of ACPs and all the rest of them. So you will see that the consumption rate, even NNPCL has also said they're going to adjust their importation in the person volume because demand have reduced. So it's simple arithmetic. It's there. It's not something that somebody will say I'm permutating it. We are not permutating it. People want to buy 10 liters and they use it for three days knowing fully whether they don't just go to grab some for them without calling out the person. So you'll find out the behavior attitude and characters of people have changed towards fair consumption. Okay. Well, this means that of course, you know, before now we were told by NNPC that Nigeria consumes 66 million liters of fuel daily. Now that will drastically drop apart from dropping. We wouldn't have that controversy anymore because the customs had also said it gave us a different figure. We wouldn't have that controversy anymore with regards to what Nigeria actually consumes on a daily. Did you hear me, Chief? Hello, Chief. We seem to have lost connection with Chief Ukadike Chinedu, a member of Ipman. Hello, Chief. Yes, I was saying that with this whole development, the controversies over the quantity of petrol consumed daily in Nigeria will no longer be there. Hidato NNPC has said we consume 66 million liters daily. Customs had given a different figure. So this will take away all of that controversies from the narrative. Yes, I'm aware that the statement created by NNPC that they are going to reduce their importation of petrol in Koro to 30 million liters a day for Nigeria. And I think the statistic is very realistic within a short period of time. If we were able to articulate and also know that NNNDPR has also issued a statement to be able to see how they can be able to track products that have been supplied, to be able to determine actually the quantity of petrol in products that has been distributed and consumed by Nigeria. I think all the whole sectors, the administration is all about policy. And policy is all about the person who issues it. I think some processors and institutions, who they are like aesthetic attitude towards some of these things, I think they are pressed up maybe because they know that with the coming of this year, the new president, and initially fit down that if you don't perform well, the job is online. I'm just worried about the future. From what is happening right now, what kind of hope do we have in the coming days? Let's say in the next three months, what are we looking at from your experience with the NNPC, with policymakers and everybody? What are Nigerians looking at in the coming days? Okay, like I said before, we have an interaction with Mr. President during his campaign period and he frankly told us that the corruption in subsidy is so much that Nigeria will kill Nigeria and it's going to remove subsidy and that he has, what he takes to do, he has the apparatus and the purchase to also implement it. And although we are thinking that some of those modalities would have come before the policy statement, but because the policy statement has been done and maybe there is an internal meeting, NNPC went ahead as full of Nigerians, so they want to say that they are working in line with the director of Mr. President. And it got to everybody from the web, so I also believe that we will also have our trust because the most important thing is that you must put trust in leadership, no matter what. You must also put trust in leadership. We have to trust in leadership and be able to comply and support them and to find out actually the best way since we will work out. So although it is very, very difficult for us in twenty marketers because I'm telling you that the cost of fund is so very, we don't have a petroleum bank, we don't have an energy bank, like they have back of it and all the rest of them, wherever you can take full fund and be able to do our business because our business is also essential. We are also in the categories as essential workers because petrol is forever essential to all the households because Nigeria is driven by domestic distribution of petroleum products. So I also believe that we must have faith in this leadership and see what they can bring to the front burner. And by the next three months maybe we will also have a chat like this to be able to have a phrase where we are and where we are coming from to know where we will go back to where we are coming from or to know where we will forge ahead. Before the deregulation, the marketers too were fingered with regards to making things difficult, taking advantage of Nigerians and making things a bit difficult for Nigerians even including this taking of our field to neighboring countries to sell. You do recall that the minute the president said fell subsidy was gone, marketers took advantage of it and began to sell at crazy prices before the price template was given. How do you respond to that? No, no, no, no, marketers are not taking any advantage, even Nigerians took advantage. Even when they said that deregulation and you see Nigeria scooped the filling station, you see thousands of fire crews with the agricultural and cattle to buy at the same price and the rest of them. But when the price was adjusted, you see the whole queue will disappear. So who is taking the turn on each other? Marketers don't even have enough money to be able to buy at a new price. And you also want somebody to sell off what he has, the furniture he has and which he knows that that furniture is almost someone's rent, maybe he'll take it for $300 and he wants it to say $300. So how will you be able to replace that furniture? How will you be able to replace that product? So Nigerians also want to take advantage of the... The explanation that was given that time, chief, because Nigerians were asking if they feel the bought was bought when subsidy was paid because it was supposed to have ended by the end of June. And the announcement was made in May. And then they began to sell to us at a price that seemed to suggest that it wasn't subsidized, when it was subsidized. The explanation given was, well, so that you marketers will be able to buy again when you buy without subsidy. Now, you marketers are still crying that it takes... What about the money you made from the sale? No, my sister, my sister, let's do this thing. We started this conversation with a very simple question. Our tickets are in the system we bought at the old regime price, which is 188. The system has this ticket that's still there. And then we say it has not flooded us. And they have reported to the new price. So how do we sell the one who have in our business, the old price? When even our tickets, we have over 4,500 tickets at the old regime price, in NNPC of us, as I'm talking to you now. And we are not insisting that NNPC, you are asking me a question. One in NNPC, I said they said they will not sell to us at the old price we bought. I bought something in your supermarket. At the old price, it did not supply me. When I said it should supply me, it said no, it should tap money. But the market has increased. I also now advise independent marketers to sell the little one they have in their business. At the old price, the one who come here will get the money. I will get the money now to talk and collect this one to come and sell to you. How do you know that we need to service you? I will not profit to rent it. Even now that we are sitting at the loss, this is our business now. We are administrating at the loss. We are paying our workers, we are paying our drivers, we are paying our drivers, government assist here and there. And you use to 1.13 million Naira to do business. You cannot get up to 1 million Naira as profit in one month. So the major problem is the NNPC. How do we recover our investment? The major problem is the NNPC delaying in the supply of the goods that you already paid for. Yes, that's what I'm saying. And that was in May. We're talking about what happened in May. I'm making reference to what happened in May. We paid in January. It has not even yet supplied. I can forward it to you. Because you're understanding we had. I'm talking about products we paid in February. Yes. Chivo Kadike, we understand what is happening. We're just asking. We understand what is happening. That's why among the very first questions I asked you was whether you're exploring legal means because normally like you alluded to, you don't pay for a product in a supermarket and they collect the money. Months ago they do not supply and then now they're asking you to pay the new price. It's not done anyway. I really wish that you would explore legal means so that the interpretation would be given to Nigerians. It might happen in another sector and we need to know what the outcome is likely to be. But as we sympathize with you as it were. Now that we have a clear understanding because Nigerians were really miffed when that inauguration statement was given and suddenly the prices went up. When we were told that the budget was in the budget, the subsidy lasted up to 31st of June. So Nigerians began to wonder why are the marketers ripping us off when they bought during subsidy. So now we have a clearer picture. Here immediately that statement was done. They stopped supplying. No, they sold any one liter of product for 48 hours. No, they sold any one liter of product for 48 hours. And one way I came back to say okay give us our product. They said no. We should go and bring that 10.17 million there. Even though who pays for a vessel? Who pays 2.17 billion? We're not asked to make up 9.17 billion. It's a way of telling us that this business is no longer for the poor. It's no longer for the middle class like us. People like us. That we should leave. And we may return our finishes to farms. Well thank you so much. It's an investment we have put all our life or everything we have to build up these finishes to ensure that we can be able to feed. Thank you so much Chief. Who can do Kachinedu of Ipman for your time and insight and all the explanations you've given with all that's happening. Especially regarding NNPCL issuing oil marketers fresh directive on refund and new price. Thank you for coming Chief. Thank you. Thank you very much. Alright. I appreciate it. Alright you're still watching The Breakfast on Plus TV Africa. We'll take a break now and bring you sports. Stay with us.