 I can't imagine what that was like. Any other turning points for you, anything that really caused you to take a step back and assess, you know, what do I believe about education, what am I going to really focus on as I move forward in my career? Well, there came a time when I was Assistant State Superintendent of Schools that local church pastors would come into my office and ask me, what do I have to do to start a private Christian school? And quite honestly at that time I had not given much thought to that matter. I did not do anything to discourage that. I tried to be helpful but I was an Assistant State Superintendent over the public system so I was careful what I would say. But that caused me to think about many things, about education, who makes the decisions, the control of it, what the nature of it ought to be. And I know that some of those turning points at that time also ended up impacting a lot of the things that you've done even fairly recently that we're going to talk about in a little while. So that's interesting. One of the things that I'm very interested in is leadership. And I think that we often underestimate the power, the influence that we can have on others, on those around us, whether in a formal way maybe as a teacher or as a principal or as a coach or maybe even in formal ways via a conversation, a casual conversation. When you think about your life, you think about all of the years that you've devoted to this very important discipline of education. Are there any individuals that you think really impacted you that were mentors to you? My father most of all in terms of my life, though my father was not an academician but he was committed to learning. He was a student himself. He loved learning. And I think he taught me the importance of knowledge. And I've come to see that every person needs a knowledge base. And that is so, so critical. So I've had no trouble at all devoting very close to 60 years now to education. And I've learned something about the importance of knowledge and what people need to know just about life. Is that something that you try to communicate to your children and to your grandchildren and others? Listen, if my life is worth anything at all, it's what I have done with my children. And the Lord has blessed me with five children. And I like to think I've been a good role model as a father, as a husband that they could see. And encouraging them as far as education is concerned. And I think I can say they've all done well along that line. And so I can take some satisfaction, I believe, in that particular part of my life. Those things are critically important and I'm afraid to a large extent they're missing from our culture today. By the way, you mentioned something about leadership and I don't want to get too far away from that. What's to talk about? Sure. Leadership is critical. You know, my teen years were all the way back in the 1940s. And I often think about the men who were rural leaders at that time. And I'm not sure that we have men of that stature around, too many of them today. And that's a real problem. As it concerns education, that, I believe, is the key, Tony, to doing a better job in the education program, not only here in West Virginia but throughout the United States. Leadership is key. How do you define leadership? And I know that this is kind of a loaded question. You know, people have written books and books and books about this. I'm not sure that it's been defined, but how would you define it? Well, it probably has been defined to some extent. Leadership cannot be based on position. Though you need someone in a position of authority just to make things go. But real leadership is not based on position. And by the way, I've learned some of these things through my study of the Bible and all of that. And those are critical things, I think, for us to know. So it's not based on position. Your life has to have some authority. And that authority, I think, is based upon what you are as a person. Now, you know, you don't lead from above. That's not it. If you read a lot about education today, you'll find terms like leading from the middle or leading from the center or even leading from below. It's almost the concept sometimes of servant leadership is that idea. Now, I think the key to improving education in our state involves leadership, first of all. And I think it has to involve leadership at every local school in the state of West Virginia. If we're really going to improve education, then that means we've got to impact the culture in every local school in the state of West Virginia. That's the starting point. The model we have used a lot in the past, and this was true when I was in my position as assistant state superintendent, there would be a fiat or a decree from someone in a position much higher than the position I was in. And that would eventually come down to a reach into the classrooms with the expectations that people are going to understand that and they're going to immediately follow that. I think there's research that shows that, quite honestly, that doesn't work very well. If we're going to improve education, it's got to occur at every one of the local schools in the state of West Virginia. And that places an emphasis upon the leadership that is provided by that local school principal. And that local school principal must understand principles of culture and what leadership really is, the systemic nature of that group of people that compose the faculty of that local Christian school or that local school. That's where we begin.