 Just the overall, I look at her, I see her, I hear what she says, whatever. You wouldn't be a choice of mine either, to be honest with you, I hope you're not insulted. I would not under any circumstances have any interest in you. Today, we're going to talk about President Trump and his deposition. Greg wants to tell us about the videos we're going to watch. Yeah, this is taped deposition in the Eugene Carroll case where she has accused Trump of rape in the 1990s. Not sure of which date. She wasn't even sure in what I heard. The trial closes, has had closing arguments today and has been handed to the jury. They were on recess until tomorrow, meaning Tuesday. And that's what you need to know. He did not take the stand in this case. So this is the only testimony you'll see. And she did take the stand in this case. Now in the 80s and 90s, is it fair to say you had a busy social life? I don't know. I mean, I don't know what you'd have to define social life. I wouldn't say that busy, I was working very hard. So I didn't have time to be too much onto the social calendar. But yeah. Well, let me try to phrase it this way. In the evenings during that period, you went out quite a bit in New York City to benefits, galas, et cetera. A lot of charity events, yes. But I don't think that much, no. So in the period in the 80s and 90s, we've already discussed you would go to benefits and parties. And is it fair to say that a lot of those parties, there would be a, or benefits, there would be kind of a photography line, either at the beginning or throughout the event? Yes. And that people would take photographs like Getty images and then put them out. And this is another Getty images turnout. And is it fair to say that this document indicates that you were the grand marshal of the New York City Veterans Day Parade on November 10, 1995 in New York City? Yes. Similarly true that during this same period you made appearances on television, correct? Yes. Sitting here today, can you recall any TV interviews that you did that you remember? I did everything. When you say everything, give me some examples if you can. I did the late night shows. I did the newscasts. I even did some of the political shows on Sunday, even though I wasn't really in politics as I am now, but they wanted me to do that. And I did that. They'd asked me to do them all the time. So I did quite a bit of television. Right, Chase, what do you got? So let's just quickly talk about the shoulder shrug and the meaning behind that when you see somebody just raise both of their shoulders like that, there's typically an apology there. So like somebody says, oh, do you know where the car keys are? And somebody says, I have no idea. Or somebody says, hey, you really offended that guy. And you said, I have no idea what was going on. I didn't know that was happening. So there's a little tiny apology hidden inside of those. So that's interesting to note here. We're going to see that play out just a little bit more. And just is some is really summarizing a lot of things. So he likes wrapping things up in little summaries. This is a very common baseline for him. And there's no not a lot of uncommon gestures, if any, here or behaviors and not a lot of stuff to indicate stress. So as we go forward, Trump's most common tells from all of his video, even the day is a sharp inhale, digital flexion, object control, which means he's reaching around adjusting things around him and making his space his own. Do a lot of that head tilt combined with an eye flutter, some full body tilt, like sideways, right before complete redirects and dominant shoulder retreat and a chin thrust. And I think here's where some people watching this might be a little manipulated by some cognitive bias. And I think our political climate right now being so exaggerated and extreme. Some people tend to go to extremes of belief. And like maybe since I don't like Trump, everything has to be bad. And no one can say anything positive about him, unless there are idiots because I can't stand that cognitive dissonance. Or I do like Trump. Everything negative about him has to be false because it's uncomfortable to hold those two ideas at the same time for people. This happens because their beliefs have penetrated into a place that beliefs are not supposed to be. And this is identity. So that's where it really gets dangerous. So as we go forward, keep in mind that you can hate somebody who's still capable of honesty and good intent and you can be a strong supporter of someone who's still capable of error and deception. And Scott, what do you got? All right, this one's really interesting because he's comparatively very calm. Usually we see him as really animated. And this time he's not animated. When people are animated, they usually indicates they're confident and at ease with whatever's happening, whether they're given a speech or a presentation or just a conversation they're having. And we're seeing limited use of illustrators. I always define illustrators for us, but those are the that's the way your brain emphasizes specific words and phrases like I did just then, specific words and phrases. You can use your head, you can use your eyebrows, you can use your shoulders, you can use your whole torso if you want to. But when you emphasize specific words and phrases, that's what we're talking about when we talk about illustrators. And we'll be talking about that quite often in here. So what we're seeing from Trump is what's usually a gamut of illustrators. We're seeing almost a zero here, even in his head, a little bit in his head. But we'll get to that in just a few minutes. And normally we it indicates that the lack of illustrators suggest the person isn't being truthful. But in this case, I think what we're seeing is him just sort of locking down. He's not moving much. So we know those that information comes to us from Albert Ray, the studies he did. And he found out or his studies showed that the less illustrating you did, the less honest you were. So that's from him. So be a chance, look at his stuff up. He's not trying to overtake the questioning or trying to be the person in charge of the questioning. I think he understands what's going on here and he's just going to be answering. He looks almost bored and we're trying to control the conversation or a situation quite often. Our voice gets louder and it gets our tongue gets a little bit stronger. But volume wise, he's not even at his normal conversation level yet. This suggests that he's focusing on every word coming out of his mouth and every word is being said to him. And he's thinking about what he's going to say. The questions in this are atrocious. They're there in my opinion, it's not very good questioning because he's just he's able to give just yes and no answers. And they're very quiet. We're not seeing very much. Now, the first question we're seeing in Purse's lips to the side a little bit and Purse lips are associated with disagreement. So if an entrepreneur is explaining their idea to you and you don't think it's as good as they think it is, as you're listening to it, you might go. Just a little bit to one side of the other. That indicates that you see a different outcome than what's being presented. For example, you may somebody may say, do you want to go to Chick-fil-A? And you may go, we can go Chick-fil-A. But you may be thinking I'd rather go to Hattie B's. So when you see the lips pursed, most of the time, that suggests that the person doesn't agree with what they're hearing or what's being said or what's happening. But when the person decide that suggests they see an alternate outcome to what's going on, he's swaying a little bit from side to side. And that can serve two purposes. It can be seen as an adapter or it can be so it can be shown to show him being proud of what he's saying. Like he's almost he's got so much energy. He's moving back and forth and he's not trying to control it. But he's not using his big illustrators and stuff. So that may be the way he's letting us know that. The quick shoulder shrug is a little bit too quick, in my opinion. And this lets us know he's not sure about his answer. He may not remember what was happening specifically. And he's not sure this is a good enough answer. That's just what it looks like to me. When he's asked about going out in the evenings, he adapts with his mouth as he listens to the question and starts thinking about how he's going to answer it. So when he's looking around, that's what's happening in that situation there. When he's asked about being the grand marshal, he seems almost unconcerned. And that's the thread that runs through these all these videos. This is being unconcerned about what's happening. He doesn't really looks like he looks like he cares what happens or what the questions are, what his answers are. He does it. He does it times. But most of the time he looks he looks at ease like this isn't bothering at all. The next two questions. Nothing out of the baseline of the other questions are short, quiet and fast answers. And let's also pay attention to his posture and the grip on his forearm that he's doing there. Those don't change much at all throughout the first video. And he's found I think what's happened is he's found a comfortable spot where he screwed up the table and he just leaning on his arms. So you're still seeing him barrier with all that. So I'm sure he feels comfortable and quote unquote psychologically safe. And I don't think you say much more than that. I don't think it means but we see him adapt a little bit when he squeezes his forearm over here, but not much after that. I'll leave it there. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. So we do get that double shoulder shrug. We will see some single shoulder shrugs later on. I think they come in some important places. So be watching out for those. Yeah, he is using that that desk to kind of lean on. He's got a you know, he's a big lad up the top. And so he's got a lot of weight up the top and he's supporting himself on there comfortably. We see the the hand on the forearm. Just like you say, Scott, now we will see later on the hand go over the wrist. That in my mind is often a signal of protection that that there's a little more uncomfortableness around some of the questions or some of the answers. Watch out for that coming up that at this point, I would agree he's very comfortable with the line of questioning and comfortable enough to reframe, to clarify in a really kind of calm manner. So, you know, we could take this as a pretty good baseline. He's being asked about stuff that he's comfortable about being asked about. He's comfortable about reframing it. He's in a comfortable position. Let's we do get a vocal click. That sound there, which for me, often denotes some potential discomfort around the idea of news shows that he went on news shows. Well, you know, he's he's often not comfortable with the media. I mean, he's comfortable on the media, but he's often not comfortable with the media as a whole. Feels that it's it's against him. That's either true or false or something in between. And he does soothe a little bit, just tiny. I mean, tiny, tiny, tiny on the idea of politics. Again, it's probably going to be some though he's been in politics, as you well know, and still is in politics, as you very well know. I think a little more discomfort around that subject. I mean, not a lot of discomfort, though. So it just says to me the ease that he has with the situation that he's in right now. So, you know, a good place for us to start. If we're looking for unease deception, it should kind of show up under these circumstances, I would say. Well, we're going to see him try to protect himself from that and countermeasure some uncomfortable situations ahead. Greg, what do you got on this one? Yeah, Chase, I think you first started by talking about red team, blue team and that that becoming identity and clouding your view of some of a person. And I think that's absolutely true. And we have to be careful. We collectively are not going to be political. That's not what we do. We're going to tell you what we see and please read past your opinion of what we think. Well, one of us will be accused of being paid by the Democrats and Republicans or both of it. We may all be accused of being paid by both. What we want you to know is we're really just looking at body language. So go from there. So let's start by saying I agree. I think this is a good baseline for starters. What I think it is is Trump in court. I don't think I think Trump in the White House, Trump in on the apprentice. All those are different trumps when you deal with them because they learn it's a learned behavior. And my guess is he's done some preparation before he goes into deposition. Maybe not this time, but for every time. This guy's been in court a lot of times. And I'm not talking about since he's been president. He's been in lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit. Guarantee he's been deposed. And he's probably had some training. One of my favorites is you mentioned it. It's got the thing I call podium surfing when he moves his body. And it's not like, you know, Chris wasn't in Chris Watts doing that. It's more about his body language needs to go somewhere in his hands are fastened down. So his body moves. We saw that in the riots, if you remember, when he went out to see the burn church and he was standing at the podium. That was the first time we saw this before that. He was real demonstrative and we said somebody should control his hands. He did. So we're seeing a little bit of that, I believe, as we go. But he's locked down. He's prepared for battle. He's had a tremendous amount of court time. So I think this is a way we're going to see a different person. I love when she says, is it fair for you to say you had a busy social life? And Scott, I agree with you. When you're looking away, that typically denotes that a person has a different viewer outcome. I think in this case, it's him thinking, what the hell is she talking about? How do I answer that question? Because he's got such complex life in those days. And look, whether you are Trump fan or not, he's been in front of the media for so long. I guarantee you what we call a social life, he may or may not call a social life. Doesn't matter. But he's been involved in a tremendous amount of things back in the eighties. I mean, I'm old enough to remember he was the Hollywood sweetheart and that he was the villain, maybe, but he was everywhere it turned. This is an awkward line of questioning. And there's a reason because when you're doing a deposition, you're trying to get to a point where a person admits whatever it is you're trying to do. But she's doing it through leading questions. And there's a lot better ways to do it than that. And if you're going to use leading questions by leading, I mean, yes or no answer. If you're going to that's do have will can are those kinds of questions lead to yes or no. If you're using a more narrowing line of questions, it's much more powerful. As he answers that question and podium serves, you can not. You can pay attention to what he's doing is he's thinking, OK, what does social mean to you? That's a negotiation word or push forward. You hear me say that all the time in an interrogation that if a person says something that's pushed forward, I'm going to hop on it. He does. He does a very good job at hopping on that social. What does that mean? He may see all of the stuff where he's standing in line as work. So a better way to go about it would be to say, what was your work life balance in these days? I'm just making up questions as we go. How do you define work versus life? What kinds of things did you do at publicity events? You were the grand marshal at this thing. Did you conduct a publicity event? Oh, you were. Do you remember her from there? Do you recall this photo? Who is that? Then you got the person where they can't wiggle and back up and say, what do you mean by this? That's a very effective way of questioning that we use in interrogation that you rarely see in deposition because deposition, the deposition course in law school I can speak to is about that long. It's not very long. It's not years and years of training. So expect that often attorneys will ask open ended questions. But a lot of them ask leading questions. They're trying to get something. Watch his brow pop up when she says, is it fair to say the second time? Look, I teach business people I've taught interrogators and I always say, have a trip wire in your head for how to respond to certain things. So when she says, is it fair to say, boom, something comes up in him? That becomes a sub routine. Look, this guy's been in negotiation of business again, like him or don't suspend that for a minute and think about all those layers of personality that have been put on top of who he was when he was young and think about all the skills he picked up along the way. Then he moves to that double arm grab, which is a move and a change from that baseline. That means something. Do we know what it means? We can't read his mind, but we can say is there's a comforting move and a different move, probably coaching. I'll leave it at that. One of those tape replays. Now, in the 80s and 90s, is it fair to say you had a busy social life? I don't know. I mean, I don't know what you would have to define social life. I wouldn't say that busy. I was working very hard, so I didn't have time to be too much onto the social calendar, but yeah. Well, let me let me try to phrase it this way. In the evenings during that period, you went out quite a bit in New York City to benefits, galas, et cetera. A lot of charity events, yes, but I don't think that much, no. So in this, in the period in the 80s and 90s, we already discussed you would go to benefits and parties. And is it fair to say that a lot of those parties there would be a or benefits, there would be kind of a photography line either at the beginning or throughout the event? Yes. And that people would take photographs like Getty images and then put them out. And this is another Getty images print out. And is it fair to say that this document indicates that you were the grand marshal of the New York City Veterans Day Parade on November 10, 1995 in New York City? Yes. Similarly true that during this same period, you made appearances on television, correct? Yes. Sitting here today, can you recall any TV interviews that you did that you remember? I did everything. When you say everything, give me some of the examples that you can. I did the late night shows. I did the newscasts. I even did some of the political shows on Sunday, even though I wasn't really in politics as I am now, but they wanted me to do that. And I did that. They'd asked me to do them all the time. So I did quite a bit of television. What years were you married to your first wife of Anna Trump? So about 78 to the early 90s. Your next wife was a woman by the name of Marla Maples. Right. And sitting here today, do you recall what years you were married to Ms. Maples? I'd have to get the exact dates for you. I can do that very easily. In the course of your dating life and your married life, did you have occasion to buy gifts for women you were seeing? Not much, actually. I mean, if it was a birthday or something, I guess, yeah. And other than birthday presents, did you buy gifts for women you were dating? I mean, it's possible, but I don't think very much now. I take it you bought gifts for your wives for their birthdays? Yes, General. And I take it you bought gifts for women you were dating? You know, probable. At least in your first marriage, you were seeing women outside of your marriage while you were married, correct? I don't know. Well, you were very public about the fact that you were seeing Ms. Maples when you were still married to Ms. Anna Trump, no? No, I don't think I was public about it. Well, there were many, many articles about it at the time, correct? No, I don't think I was public about it, and if... No, I don't think I was public about it at all. Yeah, isn't it true that you were seeing Ms. Maples before you were divorced from Anna Trump? I don't know. It was toward the end of the marriage, so I don't know. Really, it could be a lap over, but I don't really know. All right, Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so, look, notice the very different speeds of answer that he can have. Notice his difficulty with, you know, some precise dates around, you know, engagements or marriages. And look, you'll have all kinds of views around how quickly you think something like that should be answered. But look, the case is it's it's there's a length of time, very different from the length of time that he takes to to say, your next wife was Marla Maples, right? So super quick with that. So look, he's got the informational hand. That's a simple one for him. Look how quickly answers to that. Well, take that into the other videos and know that if he knows something and he is assured of it, he will give a really fast, quick answer. But he may answer slowly because he doesn't know the answer or he's not fully assured on it. So if he's assured, nice, quick answer there. There's a vocal click there before the getting to the exact dates. And so there is stress around these dates. I don't know why he has stress there. My guess is it's probably a bit social that that he knows that he would be expected to know when when the relationship started. And it's going to look bad for him. And maybe it maybe you think it does look bad or maybe you're not concerned about it. I don't really mind about that, but I think it is of concern to him with the with the idea of the of by the way, with the vocal click, he adapts on his papers as well and his head goes back as well. So I think there is relative stress for him around not being able to give some exact dates there. The gifts piece there. There's a vocal click again and he goes from not much, actually, to possibly to probably. So it is interesting how the line of questioning has got him in a slightly more situation where he's where he's moved from not much, actually, to possibly to probably quite quickly. Now, whether that that's going to prove good for him or bad for him at this point, when I was watching these, I don't know the questions coming up, but certainly the questioner has managed to get him into somewhat of a of a of a less comfortable space than he was before. But still still looking relatively comfortable. Chase, what have you got on this one? Yeah, one thing I learned in my training was that good questions should build walls. And then good leading questions should provide a pathway. So like your interrogation is about building walls and illuminating pathways, and that's what should have been done here. It looks like we're going to see in the next few videos. She builds this lawyer builds about three walls of a room and forgets the fourth wall. But when he's asked about his first wife, there's a huge cluster here. And I say huge in relation to what else we're going to see in the coming videos. There's increased blink rate. There's lip licking. There's emotional eye accessing to break those down for you. We blink more often when we're stressed. We lick our lips more often. Sometimes during deception depends on the person, the situation, the context, their history, all of that. He tends to do this in these times. Emotional accessing means we're looking down into our right. We're recalling something or thinking about something that's emotional. And there's a slight, very slight dominant shoulder retreat. And you're going to see it here right when that question comes up. That dominant shoulder moves back and we tend to do this when we're angered by something where we don't like it. It's not necessarily a deception indicator. And finally, we have digital flexion and one thing if you could pay attention to for the rest of these videos that kind of goes in at all these stress points is the tension of these fingers on the jacket. When do they squeeze? When do they let go because you're going to see two different things there? And then seeing women outside your marriage from this, there's a cut here. And I'm not sure when the cut was made or how long it is between there. But right there, there's lip-persing. There's digital flexion, which means we're squeezing the fingers, which means the stress behavior. There's a shrug, not necessarily deception. Then there's latency. So Mark was just talking about this, the gap between the ending of a question and the start of an answer. There's an increase in latency and that may be relevant, may not be. We're going to see some more of that in a minute. And then there's self-soothing and whoever is next. Maybe you can describe that. I'm going a little bit long. What's self-soothing, Scott? Well, self-soothing is a term Joan of Aro came up with when someone is adapting. And like you're talking about what you call digital flexion, that's another term for adapting. When you're trying to get rid of that built up stress or tension and trying to get to get a break from that, trying to settle yourself down. So sometimes you'll you'll self-soothe by doing this or you'll grab your arm and rub it or some people actually do this. That's a nutshell. That's what self-soothing is. But it's adapting. That's another term for that is has adapting. Like we were talking about just a second ago. So after he's adapting there with his with his hand on his forearm like that, we said a little adaption, adaption, a little adapter there. He pushes away from the attorney a little bit, not whole up just a little bit. If you pay attention, you'll see it. And all those behaviors put together, all the little adapting and the pushing away a little bit that lets us know there's an issue there. And there should be because this question is about his first wife. And I believe she died three months before this. If I've got my if Alexa told me correctly, is that true? Do we know for sure or not? OK, I thought you were saying it wasn't. So I asked Alexa and that's what that's what it told me. So I think that's probably why we're seeing a little bit of self-soothing there. Now, after the next two questions, he morphs back into his original position. That's one of his right hand gripping his forearm and bear. Again, he's burying the same way they scooched up the table real time. And this is normal for situations like this, where you're going to when you're not going anywhere for a while and you're dealing with the boredom and they're just sitting there. You're just sitting on the same spots on your high and in. You're sitting on the same spots on your your back or are doing that. The same muscles are being stressed there. So I think he's he's just sort of sort of trying to settle in and get comfortable there. The only difference is his left hand is almost gripping the right hand at this point. So that's one thing to keep an eye out on. And the last questions are really up to are set up to kind of zing him and they don't. They're trying to she's trying to get him. And it doesn't work because the questioning is not very good on this. His blink rate remains low throughout the whole thing, as does his voice volume. And his vocal tone hasn't changed much at all. And we're not seeing any illustrators at all. So he's used to doing this. I mean, this looks like something he's done before, like you were talking about, Greg. So when he's been in court of getting ready to go in, I think he's I think he's been prepared and they've talked to him about that. So he's either remembering it all or he's gone over it with somebody to make sure he's doing that, that what else? I think that's pretty much it for me. Greg, what do you got? Yeah, I am a big fan of eye movement, as you guys all know. But I would say the hard part of eye movement is getting to single sensory channel question. Where were you on foam? The problem is you pollute those questions. And this is a great example when you ask a question about a wife who had possibly died sooner, just right around that time, Scott, that could be the reason could also be the reason that I should know this. My first wife, the mother of my children, that becomes a big deal. You know, now inside that person's head, what's going on? I'm not saying it is, but there's lots of reasons why you can entangle a question that seems straightforward with emotion. And then you get a different eye access. And Chase, you talk about asking somebody about the backyard and they had a dog there they were happy with. It's really easy when you're talking about anything that is related to a person to get an emotional eye access. But he does and he stumbles along as he's trying to figure it out. And so he finally says, I don't know. So we don't know why he's doing that, but we know there's some genesis of that. There's a furrow in his brow at the same time he's not emotional accessing, which means it's causing him some pain of some kind. Don't know what it is, whether he's stressed over whatever. And if you don't believe that's true, watch when they ask him the same question about Marla Maples and he doesn't go through all the same movement. He just goes to, I don't know, it moves right off to it. There's a purse lip. His lips are pursed as they start asking this question. Look, I know what he's he knows are going to ask, did you, you know, have sex with somebody else or date somebody else while you're married? You see his lips purses, he's pushing away from it. Guys, here's a great example of why questioning matters. When she asked the question and she asked the question without good authority, without having a good questioning style. You see his chin thrust in in defiance as he goes up. He answers the question she asked. She asked, you were public about it. No, I don't think I was public about it. He never says until she really locks him down after three tries that he did. He was involved with or was not involved with Marla Maples while he was married. She finally, after she says, you were very public. No, I wasn't very public. Were you dating Marla? I wasn't very public. He says it again. Then she says, did you see Marla while married? And you see that adapters? He grips his arms. Scott, you're talking about that very good one. The reason he's not stressed is because she's not asking good questions. And this is minor deviations from his baseline, even for that. But if you see that in an interview or an interrogation and he's not been doing it, you think, OK, why? Because I'm sure he knows what's coming next. Now, let me also say, I probably am not going to say whether I think somebody's guilty or innocent based on what we're seeing in these choppy bits. I will tell you where I think it looks bad or good for him. Of course, the questioning here looks bad for him, but he stands to it pretty consistently. We don't see a lot of deviation just that minor one. That's all I got. One of those tape replays. What years were you married to your first wife of Anna Trump? So about 78 to the early nineties. Your your next wife was a woman by the name of Marla Maple. Right. And sitting here today, do you recall what years you were married to Miss Maples? I'd have to get the exact dates for you. I can do that very easily. In the course of your dating life and your married life, did you have occasion to buy gifts for women you were seeing? Not much, actually. Well, I mean, if it was a birthday or something, I guess, yeah. And other than birthday presents, did you buy gifts for women you were dating? I mean, it's possible, but I don't think very much now. I take it you bought gifts for your wives for their birthdays. Yes, General. And I take it you bought gifts for women you were dating. You know, probable. At least in your first marriage, you were seeing women outside of your marriage while you were married. Correct? I don't know. Well, you were very public about the fact that you were seeing Miss Maples when you were still married to Miss Ivana Trump, no? No, I don't think I was public about it. Well, there were many, many articles about it at the time. Correct? No, I don't think I was public about it. And if, no, I don't think I was public about it at all. Yeah, isn't it true that you were seeing Miss Maples before you were divorced from Ivana Trump? I don't know. It was toward the end of the marriage. So I don't know, really. It could be a, there could be a lap over, but I don't really know. Did you ever have occasion to go to the department store, Bergdorf Goodman? Very rarely. You say very rarely. Can you give me more detail? How rarely? I mean, almost, for me, almost never. I would very rarely go there. When you went there, what do you recall shopping for? I don't know, it's possible I was there, but I don't know that I ever shop there for myself. So when you shop there for yourself, to the extent you went there, you were shopping for others? I don't think I ever shop for others. It's possible that one or both of my wives shop there a little bit, but I don't remember ever buying something for myself at Bergdorf Goodman. I went there very seldom, almost if ever. Then let's limit it to Bergdorf. Bergdorf's was pretty close to Trump Tower and very close to the Plaza Hotel, correct? That's right. All right, Greg, what do you got? Yeah, I'm gonna keep this very short because there's not a lot, but there's more movement at very rarely. He's actually doing a little surfing thing there. He's back to that podium surfing thing. There's a qualifier in what he says. When the attorney gets very specific about details, then there's a qualifier. I don't know that I ever shop there for myself. Buy for myself. Does he mean I didn't buy something for myself or I didn't do my own shopping? Well, I wanna know. I wanna know. And my interrogation brain goes, Chase, do you mean you didn't buy anything to wear? Or you mean you didn't buy anything for other people? You mean you had a shopper? I'd clarify that point because it allows, as long as you have an open-ended question, it allows the person to have lower stress. Don't know. And if you take this next step without asking, then you're there. When he asks, I don't, when she says I don't, when he says I don't remember, you see him surfing. And then he says, if ever again, I quit, I would be very tight on those questions. Clarify what the words mean to him because this wiggle room is allowing him to get away with more than he would. In this case, I think he comes out just fine, but she should tighten up on questions. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so a double shoulder shrug there, very quick, very slight, super fast on almost for me, almost never. Now, Chase is absolutely right, is that the double shoulder shrug can be an apology. It can be that sense of, hey, what are you going to do? This is just the way it is, which has an apology nature to it is. Look, nothing I can do about it. Now, if he's trying to beat us, because my understanding is this question of, do you go shopping and do you go to a particular shop is most likely to do with, there is the possibility that a crime was committed in that shop. So we're trying to work out, look, do you go there? Do you go there often? Have you ever been there? Okay. Well, so if there is a crime involved here, you would imagine that he might try and be deceptive around this or just admit it. I mean, you're either going to admit it or you're going to be deceptive around it. Double shoulder shrug there though. So that's not really deceptive in my view. Normally, if there was some stress around something, I might expect a click from him. I might expect the head to go back as well. I don't see those things. So it feels to me that, yeah, he may well feel for himself that he doesn't go shopping that much and he doesn't go there often, almost for him, almost never. Then you've got, when they talk about the proximity of this shop to Trump Tower, which is, if you know New York, you'll know that's absolutely accurate, the proximity of that shop and Trump Tower and some other properties that he would be around very proximate to each other. And he answers very quickly on that. That's right. So nothing for me in this seems like it's giving him that much stress and because of that, feels pretty honest what he's talking about there. But I'm willing to have my mind changed. Chase, what do you got on this one? Yeah, I tend to agree. There's some, right around this department store, there's some territorial markers here. That's what I'm calling them here. What we do to claim territory. And they're shifting around. There's the click that Mark talked about and there's bilateral digital flexion here. So which means both hands are experiencing digital flexion. And there are three ways that a person can be hiding something on a witness stand or kind of anywhere in the world. There's concealment and avoidance and deception. Concealment, avoidance, deception. And right here we're seeing a lot of avoidance. So we're not seeing deception but we are seeing a little avoidance. So here you're seeing a strategy of calculated avoidance. And I get it, there's concealment of information going on here clearly but the method used to arrive at that concealment is avoidance. So what method is being used to get there and where's the end result? So I'd attribute this to avoidant methods. So in the next video, I'm gonna also kind of break down the eight ways that this deception or nine ways that this can come out. I'll let you be the judge on what's really going on here. So you identified the strategy of avoidance. The next step is to identify the mechanisms being used which we'll cover in the next video. Greg. Oh, it's me. And Scott. I'll do me. Okay, Scott, what do you got? All right. I'm not seeing, I agree with you guys. I'm not seeing much stress here at all. Little or no stress. And quite often when someone's stressed when they're answering a question, you'll see specific cues to let you know. But of course you'll have to know what to look for. So let's go over a couple of things that you need to look for when you're looking for stress in a person. So especially during questioning, that's when you'll see these the most. Not necessarily if somebody pulls out a gun or something, a high stress situation but a one-on-one thing where you're talking to someone or you're being questioned, these are some things you'll look for. The first one would be voice volume and tone that they're gonna rise. And this is due to the constriction of the muscles and the throat and the neck and the larynx. And that makes your voice tone go higher and you gotta push out a little bit more air so you get a little bit louder. And so you almost can't help it when you get stressed like that. So the breathing rate's gonna increase and that also contributes to the voice volume. As well, let's just know the limbic system is in play and what I call the rescue mode is just preparing you for whatever's gonna happen next. You guys are gonna have to run, you're gonna have to fight somebody, you're gonna have to just sit there and freak out, you're gonna freeze and then make decisions of what's gonna happen. It's in rescue mode. It's preparing you for whatever's gonna happen next. Then you're probably gonna see nostril flare. And that's when your breathing rate increases to get more air in you more quickly, your nostrils will flare a little bit and your mouth is gonna open a little bit as well. So it just helps you get oxygen a lot quicker. Now, along with that, the heart rate is gonna increase and that's because it's trying to get that air, that oxygen you just put in your body is trying to get it to all the muscles in your body as your brain decides what you're gonna do next. So are you gonna have to run, you've got blood going and oxygen going down to your legs and your hands. So that's why quite often when someone gets startled or they're getting ready to swing at you when they're sitting there talking to them, you'll see their face will get pretty red because their blood pressure is ramping up a little bit as their heart rate increases but then as it drops, you'll see their face almost go pale or a little, not gray, but there's a definite color change there. And that's when right then something's gonna happen next. So it could be they're gonna swing at ya, are they gonna get up and run or they're gonna do something right then. That's what usually happens next. So you gotta pay attention. And the fifth one's gonna be the pupils dilate. And they dilate so you can take in as much information as you possibly can. And some instances that when you get stressed that the pupils will constrict. But in a situation like this, when you're being questioned they'll get bigger and bigger because you're focused on what they're saying. So you're trying to gather as much information as you possibly can. So in some cases you've got some things kind of fighting each other in a situation like this. But your limbic system isn't really aware of the conversation of what's happening. It's just preparing you for whatever's gonna happen next. But we see none of those stress markers here. Anything that would suggest he's being stressed. However, we're seeing some adapting with the mouth. That's slowly batting into the top lip with his bottom lip like that. Not a whole lot, just a little bit. So he's adapting with that, trying to get rid of some of that built up stress or tension. And it could be whatever's being talked about at that point that's bothering him. The mark covered some of those things earlier. That might be going on there as well. But when you're seeing some of those types of things, that can be fairly potent and powerful. When you're seeing what seem to be little things, but to panelists and us, they're really big things. When you see somebody bite in their mouth or they start that swaying back and forth, the things we've been talking about. There's actually a really big deal, but they look small. So Kita, one of those tape replays. Did you ever have occasion to go to the department store, Bergdorf Goodman? Very rarely. You said very rarely. Can you give me more detail? How rarely? I mean, almost, for me, almost never. I would very rarely go there. When you went there, what do you recall shopping for? I don't know, it's possible I was there, but I don't know that I ever shopped there for myself. So when you shopped there for yourself, to the extent you went there you were shopping for others? I don't think I ever shopped for others. It's possible that one or both of my wives shopped there a little bit, but I don't remember ever buying something for myself at Bergdorf Goodman. I went there very seldom, almost if ever. Then let's limit it to Bergdorf. Bergdorf's was pretty close to Trump Tower and very close to the Plaza Hotel, correct? That's right. Mind as you go through this. Do you recall having an interview with reporters from the Hill on June 24th, 2019? Vaguely, yes. And do you recall where that interview took place? I think it was in the Oval Office. And you're quoted just below that paragraph of his saying as follows, and this one I'll read. I'll say it with great respect. Number one, she's not my type. Number two, it never happened. It never happened, okay? And then the reporters say, the president said while seated behind the Resolute Desk in the Oval Office. See that? Yes, I do. And the statement that I just read that said begins, I'll say it with great respect. That was a statement that you made to the reporters for the Hill on June 24th, 2019, correct? Yes. And same set of questions. I take it, sir, that you stand by that statement today? Yes, I do. All right, Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so I'm gonna say this is our first point really where he's showing any stress. And the reason I'm gonna say that is that he comes forward and at this point he does place his hand over his wrist. Now, the wrist is a very vulnerable part of your body. If you get your wrist damaged or taken control of, you're pretty much losing control potentially of the whole of the rest of your arm. So we tend to protect our wrists, our elbows, our knees, our ankles, other areas as well. But in the position that he's in, where he's tried to lock it down and be comfortable, that for me is a little bit of a tell that this is, this may be a problem for him. And he uses the word vaguely yes, vaguely yes, and then covers his arm. So what is his issue with this? I'm not quite sure what exactly in this is the biggest issue for him, but certainly he's not as comfortable in this particular moment as he has been in the rest for me anyway. Greg, what do you think? Yeah, I think what I see is, yes, I see in the very beginning, his blink rate is through the roof and you're like, what's going on? And then you see that concern in his brow. And when they were asking about, I thought maybe it came from the last video though, not sure what the question was, these clips are so cut guys and we pull them out. This is what we get, the edits are there. When they ask, did you reach out to Bergdorf Goodman casually and very calmly? He just says, no reason to, nothing happened. That's pretty calm considering this is an accusation that this is a civil trial, I believe, but that in the day could have carried prison time for sure. He's got full attention and a set jaw and his mouth narrows. We typically associate the mouth narrowing with anger. Sometimes it's just something else, some negative emotion. But with him, I think it probably is anger. And then we see that blink rate go back up, his brow goes down. When I think a person is trying to convince you of something, it's not usually like this. So his brow is down, his eyes are narrowing, he's showing absolute confidence, it didn't happen. And he's using contraction. Then he starts to rationalize why it didn't happen. That fits after you've said, but there's not a single brow rise in here and I see telling, driving brow down. That's pretty powerful. This is a good one for Trump. Chase, what do you got? Yes, right off the bat, we're seeing a barrier gesture here. And this is when objects, body parts, or anything else that a person willingly brings across their midline, I would say. And this also remains in place for a period of time. So right as the topic is being brought up, there's two big signals of stress here that I can see. It's just the barriering and the self soothing or adapting as Scott and Greg would call it. In the BodyLanguageTactics.com workshop. So here are the nine origins of behavior that can comprise concealment, deception, and avoidance. So what's the likely psychological or physiological origin of the behavior that we're seeing? So it's either stress, fear, uncertainty, something social, an impairment, like a cognitive load increase or your brain's thinking too much. Concealment and oxygenation. Scott just talked about this with the nostril flare or what the behavior nerds call wing dilation. And we have temperature regulation and avoidance. And we're seeing a lot of the avoidance. We're seeing a little bit of the stress, but a lot of avoidance here. And that's all I got for this one. I'll go next. I'll say I should have called you. Sorry. The last three videos, I'm sorry. I should have called on you. My fault, guys. Sorry. I'm used to being last. It's OK. I like being last. Don't bother at all. It's kind of cool. Yeah. You play. Come on. I'm trying to not get at the same thing you guys got. So that's going to be the tough part. OK. After the answer is vaguely yes. Once again, it reverts back to that same little pose he's got there is up close to the table. He has arms crossed and all that lean on the table. His voice tone and volume and the cadence stayed the same. Again, it's almost like he's bored. And when he's asked, so you stand by that statement today, he makes good eye contact and widens his eyes as he says, yes, I do. So in my opinion, I'm not seeing much stress here. He affirms that he still believes what he said. So maybe there's some stress there and I'm missing it, but I'm not seeing a whole lot. And it may not seem it, but he's playing. He's paying really close attention to everything being said here. Every single word, everything that's written down. He's on that tight. He's not missing anything on that because he knows that's where the important things are. Everything's written down. What they're saying there, yeah, it's important. It'll be transcribed and and but he's what he's reading. He knows is important. So I'm going to you guys cover most everything. One of those tape replays. Do you recall having an interview with reporters from the Hill on June 24th, 2019? Vaguely, yes. And do you recall where that interview took place? I think it was in the Oval Office. And you're quoted just below that paragraph of his saying as follows and this one I'll read. I'll say it with great respect. Number one, she's not my type. Number two, it never happened. It never happened, okay. And then the reporters say, the president said while seated behind the resolute desk in the Oval Office. See that? Yes, I do. And the statement that I just read that said begins, I'll say it with great respect. That was a statement that you made to the reporters for the Hill on June 24th, 2019, correct? Yes. And same set of questions. I take it sir that you stand by that statement today. Yes, I do. So before you made your statements that it never happened in 2019, did you or anyone on your staff reach out to anyone at Bergdorf Goodman? I didn't have to reach out to anybody because it didn't happen. And by the way, if it did happen, it would have been reported within minutes. Talking about going to a major floor, probably I assume the most important floor, a major floor in a major department store that's a very busy store by the way, and check out counters and everything else. And I would be in there. I mean, it's the most ridiculous, it's the most ridiculous disgusting story who's just made up. Okay, Greg, what do you got? Yeah, so here's where we really start to see him being, we see some concern. This is when he, when they ask him a question, did you go talk to Bergdorf Goodman? This is where he says, no, there was no reason. That's a casual response that you would think would cause him to ramp up, like we saw in the last video, but we don't. We see full attention and said, Joe, we do see some blink rate increase, but that's video editing. I think all that hopping around. Then his brow goes down, his face narrows. I mean, his eyes narrow, his lips narrow, and he starts telling, this is a drive. This is a person, this is aggravation, anger, whatever you want to call it. He's aggravated or angry with the topic. We always say strong positive denial. This is a strong positive denial. This is a person saying, I didn't do it. There's nothing to see. And Scott, what do you got? All right, this is where we should be seeing some signs of stress if we're going to be seeing deception. But what we're seeing is him affirming that this didn't happen. So in his, from his point of view, he's affirming this didn't happen. So he leans toward the attorney a little bit. He's still burying with his arms and hands like he has been. And I'm not seeing any adapting happening anywhere. He does lift his index finger a little bit on his left hand for the first time when he says floor. And the second time he says floor, he lifts his thumb on his left hand. So I'm not, there must be something there. I'm sure Mark called that. You'll have something about that. So I'm not sure what that would be, but something's up there. He knows it's an important floor. You know, and he's talked about that or talks about that in this deposition. So maybe that's what it is. But this denotes that he, I would be under the impression he knows there's something important about that floor. I'm sure I won't say what I've got for that. So Mark can do that one. His voice volume increases and his tone is just a little bit stronger. And all the while his blink rate pretty much stays low throughout this one. And that's important because quite often a higher blink rate, as we always talk about, indicates there's an issue there with that question or statement. It's also another indication of stress and you can be thinking a lot. I remember one time I read a study where it said when you blinked, you were finishing a thought. Did anybody ever see that one? So every time you were, you were, you're thinking about something when you went from almost sentence to thought to thought, you would blink and that's where the blinks were. It was crazy, man. This was, but this was like, you know, 15, 20 years ago. But I'm not seeing any stress here. Just someone who is over it. I think he's pretty much had it. I think he's starting to, I think the boredom is setting in at this point. But I'm not seeing any suggestions or cues of deception here. I'm not saying he's not being deceptive. I'm saying, I'm not seeing anything that says that we're used to understanding, suggest, deception. Okay, Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so to that blink at the end of thoughts that you might have seen that in some animation books because it was a way in animation that you put a blink at the end of a thought to let the audience know the thought has ended. But us humans, we don't tend to do that. And most animations were kind of mice or dogs or, you know, nobody knows how a mouse or a dog or whatever think. So it was used in animation, but it's not accurate to human beings. We blink at all kinds of times for all kinds of reasons, just like you said there. And as to the floor in that particular shot, well, here's what I would say about that particular store. It's difficult to go in there and not be noticed simply because it's not a big store. And even if there's a lot of people in there, they're relatively attentive in my experience. So you do get noticed. It's not the kind of store that you could walk through and not get seen in, I would say. But maybe back in the day, back in the 90s, you know, I don't know, could have been different. Anyway, I think that's what he might be pointing to, that, look, I'm on a busy floor. There's a lot happening there. Like I would get seen. There'd be a lot of attention. You can't just walk through and not get noticed there. So here's what I would say here is, look, if you're looking for this video to be the one where you might go, there it is. He's under stress and he's lying and you're gonna be disappointed on this video. Unfortunately, if that's what you're after because, look, he does describe this accusation as ridiculous, made up, it didn't happen. And then he, in his Trumpish way, sells the evaluation of that all in the idea of disgusting. And that's just classic. Trump, it's grandiose, it's superlative. You know, he wraps it all into a word that he knows will have emotional effect. So there's that element of it. And you know, I would suggest he's a little less calm about this now because he is going to his more kind of soapbox, barnstorming level of Trump, whereby he'll make these big evaluations that he knows are dramatic and knows are entertaining and will get him attention. And if he's anything, he is attention seeking, that's a reality, you have to be. If you're gonna go for that, he's an entertainer and a president. So you wanna be happy with the attention and almost attention seeking if you want those kind of roles. So really, there's nothing out of his baseline there for Trump, the entertainer and the president and the person who's gonna soapbox it and make a speech out of this. But he has moved out of that armness that he had. But I don't think in a way that for me suggests anything which is deceptive at this point. Chase, what do you got on this one? Let's dive into that baseline a little bit more. Trump has this baseline history of just slightly breaking eye contact when interrupting people. And this is all the time and all the debates, the news interviews, when he interrupts somebody, he'll look. So if I'm looking at you right now, he'll look just off here and then interrupt and start talking. And here's why that works so well for him. If you break eye contact and start talking, the other person subconsciously processes that you can't see them continuing to speak, makes them more likely to stop and allow you to speak. So since they can't see you speaking and they're aware you're not directly looking at them, there's an unconscious social pressure to allow the other person to speak. And he does this as weird as it is, I would just say masterfully. And I personally don't see a lot of deception indicators here. And just keep in mind, this doesn't mean that something is true. It means there are no deception indicators. So all four of us, we deal in likelihood here. I hope everybody would agree. And I think the more certain, if you're watching body language stuff on YouTube, the more certain somebody is when you hear somebody analyzing behavior, the more skeptical you should be of that person's expertise and skill. So I would just say, however, not a lot of deception indicators here for the multiple times that he makes a denial in many different ways just in this one clip. That's all I got. One quick thing guys, when we talk about blink, one place blinks do indicate something that way. Think about the way people look when you say something they don't believe and they all go. At the end of that thought, different story. Maybe that's what the study should have been about. I think people blink when finishing a thought inside of a university laboratory. I think we always say that's where the absolutes come from. One of those tape replays. So before you made your statements that it never happened in 2019, did you or anyone on your staff reach out to anyone at Bergdorf Goodman? I didn't have to reach out to anybody because it didn't happen. And by the way, if it did happen, it would have been reported within minutes. Talking about going to a major floor, probably I assume the most important floor, a major floor in a major department store that's a very busy store by the way. And check out counters and everything else. And I would be in there. I mean, it's the most ridiculous. It's the most ridiculous, disgusting story. It was just made up. I'm in front of you, a black and white photograph that we've marked as DJT 23. And I'm gonna ask you, is this the photo that you were just referring to? I think so, yes. And do you recall when you first saw this photo? At some point during the process, I saw it. That's, I guess her husband, John Johnson, who was an anchor. For ABC, nice guy. I thought, I mean, I don't know him, but I thought he was pretty good at what he did. I don't even know who the woman. Let's see, I don't know who, it's Marla. You're saying Marla's in this photo? That's Marla, yeah, that's my wife. Which woman are you pointing to? No. Here. Oh, is that? The person you just pointed to was Eugene Carroll. Who is that? Who is this? That's the point, your wife. And the person, the woman on the right is your then wife, Marla. I don't know, this was the picture. I assume that's John Johnson. Is that because it's very blurry. All right, Chase, what do you got? Let's talk about his language real quick. I'm just gonna give you a couple things that were said in this clip here. I think so, I guess at some point, I mean, I thought, but I mean, I don't even know, I don't know who I assume. And finally, it's very blurry. So you know what else is blurry here? His language is very blurry. This is classic avoidance language that stays away from concealment and deception. So from the eight deception origins, he's pulling a lot from stress, social and avoidance. While some might initially say uncertainty, he's using uncertainty deliberately to accomplish a social outcome here. Which is to win this little social argument that's going on. That's all I got here. Scott, what do you got? Got me mid-gum spit. I agree with you. And I think we're also seeing a lot of frustration here. Now let's keep in mind, when you're running for an office, you meet thousands of people and you shake thousands of hands. And he's being asked to remember being at an event where he met and shook hands with someone specific. And the attorney's asking him to be specific, but there's, I mean, that's in a lot of ways, that's impossible. So he knows that. That's why we see that air being blown out. And that's just the way, his way of showing that he probably doesn't remember because it's a lot of stuff to sip through and try to get a handle on. A specific person out with a time and everything else. So normally when someone blows air out of their mouth with their cheeks, when they're kind of blown out like that, extended like that, they've just been through an experience that's exciting and maybe it was dangerous. Maybe you almost got hit by a truck on the highway when you're emerging. Maybe somebody, you thought something bad was going to happen and it didn't. You just got a report about your health and you thought it was going to be bad, but it wasn't. That's when we usually see those kinds of things. You do that when the stressful experience is over and that's when you see them blow the air out like that. And I think that's what he's experienced, but that's stressful, but at the same time I think he's frustrated. Like I was saying at the beginning. When he's doing that to let everybody, in such a big way, let everybody in the room know that the attorney is posing a question that's almost impossible to answer. So, and then when he's asked about the photo and he mistakenly thinks his wife is in it, and he's corrected. And to me, this once again indicates that he's disinterested in being there. He's looking at it, but I don't think he's like as focused as he was on the words on the pages he was reading earlier. So, and I'm sure maybe that woman looks like his wife. I don't know. I don't remember what his wife looked like back then. So I don't know, but he pays close attention again to what's on the pages, but not as much as what's in the photos. Yeah, I'll leave it there. Mark, what do you get? Yeah, look, I think his timelines are all over the place at this point. I don't think he quite knows what the hell's going on. He's going for any 90s hairstyle that he can, which, you know, to try and work out who it is. I mean, it just, I mean, obviously it just looks really bad for him because he's pointing to his accuser saying, I think that's my partner. Well, his new partner, Ivana, is next to him as far as I understand it in that photograph. Is that correct? That's his actual wife at the time and his first wife, his first wife, yeah. Right, right. So yeah, so obviously it looks, it's now escalated him not knowing when a relationship started to not even being able to quite tell anybody that you've had a relationship with and mistaking your accuser for that. So it's terrible. It's terrible for him. Now, you know, do you, is this a purposeful kind of mess around? So I really don't think if it is, like that's really good acting. Like if he's pretending to not know what the hell's going on, like that's really good acting. In my mind, what I'm seeing there is somebody who doesn't know what's going on. Now look, that's gonna do a whole bunch of other things for you. If you're not for Trump, you're gonna go, well, there we go. He doesn't know what the hell's going on. And if you're for him, you'd go, well, of course he wouldn't know what's going on. It's super blurry and it's a long time ago. Look, so you're gonna treat this in whatever way you're gonna treat it. All that I would say is yeah, he's all over the shop in this situation. Greg, what do you think? Yeah, it's just got the thing you were talking about. Horses do that and I love it. It's one of my favorite moves they do. They go, when something goes wrong, like one horse kicks the crap out of another and there's violence. When we look over and go, like, oh, that's a bad idea. I do it occasionally around people and horse people all pick up on it. It's actually an interesting part of it. For horse herds you, they're liable to do it too because they're thinking, oh, something's about to happen for that. I think Mark, if we're saying he doesn't understand is exactly the opposite of the problem. I think he knows he just stepped in it because they're trying to prove, he said, not my type. Well, they're trying to prove that woman that you identified as your wife is the person who's accusing you. She sure looks like your type. So I think his brain suddenly goes, uh-oh, what did I do? And now, I think he's thinking it's the later date than it is and clearly Ivanka, his first wife is standing right there in the picture. So he wasn't married to Marla at the time and you get a complicated mess. And I think what happens then is his brain starts to panic and scramble. And I don't think full-blown panic. You don't see full-blown panic. But all those, that word soup that you called out Chase is because he loses verbal fluency and that's fight-or-flight, that's stress. We see that going. And if you don't believe he's doing that, here's a big baseline deviation for him. Look at his mouth open and just sit there. He just realized he made a blunder. He's in a bind and then he suddenly doesn't, he disclaims, I don't understand the photo. It's blurry. If this is the same photo we're looking at, we have to assume it is same quality. It's not blurry. It's easy to see. But it shows his ability to flex under stress and to change gears. All that incoherent wording, all that trying to disclaim the picture doesn't look good for Trump. This is probably the worst we've seen to point regardless of how he feels. And we're seeing his brain scrambling for an answer. One of those tape replays. Here in front of you, a black and white photograph that we've marked as DJT 23. And I'm gonna ask you, is this the photo that you were just referring to? I think so, yes. And do you recall when you first saw this photo? At some point during the process, I saw it. That's, I guess her husband, John Johnson, who was an anchor for ABC, nice guy. I thought, I mean, I don't know him, but I thought he was pretty good at what he did. I don't even know who the woman, let's see, I don't know who. It's Marla. You're saying Marla's in this photo? That's Marla, yeah, that's my wife. Which woman are you pointing to? No. Here. That's Carol. The person you just pointed to was Eugene Carroll. Who is that? Who is this? And the person, the woman on the right is your then wife, Marla? I don't know, this was the picture. I assume that's John Johnson. Is that? That's Carol. Because it's very blurry. Another thing that you say in your June 21 statement is that Ms. Carroll was trying to carry out a political agenda. Before issuing your statement on June 21, did you learn what political party Ms. Carroll belonged to? I didn't know that. Before you issued your June 21 statement, did you have any documents indicating that she was pursuing a political agenda? No. At the end of your statement, your June 21 statement, you say, if anyone has information that the Democratic Party is working with Ms. Carroll or New York Magazine, please notify us as soon as possible. Did anyone ever notify you about that? I don't know. Sitting here today, you can't recall anyone who notified you? I don't know, yeah. One of the other things that you said about Ms. Carroll at the time appears in your June 24 statement, which is DJ T-22. And what you said there is, I'll say it with great respect, number one, she's not my type. When you said that Ms. Carroll was not your type, you meant that she was not your type physically, right? I saw her in a picture. I didn't know what she looked like. And I said it and I say it with as much respect as I can, but she is not my type. And again, when you say type, you just refer to looking at photos, so you mean physically she's not your type? Physically she's not my type and now that I've gotten indirectly to hear things about her, she wouldn't be my type in any way, shape, or form. But when you were talking back on June 24th, you were referring to her not being your type physically. I saw a photo of her. And the only difference between me and other people is I'm honest. She's not my type. I take it the three women you've married are all your type. Yeah. All right, Greg, what do you got? So one of the things that we always talk about are universal emotions. We talk about universal things like showing your lower teeth, being anger and those kinds of things. However, if a person makes it part of their baseline, it can skew that. And Trump does that when he's talking. Yeah, it becomes a thing for him. We see it a lot. It doesn't necessarily mean anger in him. There has to be other parts of the face coming together to make that work. This is something a little adapting we have seen to now as he rubs that right arm when he's asked about a political agenda. Clearly because, look, if you're Trump, everybody's a political agenda. He had people in his own party who hated him, people in another party and other people. So he probably is thinking, okay, where do I go here? When he changes position when he says, I don't know when he was talking about whether somebody had contacted him to tell him whether Eugene Carroll was part of the Democratic Party. You see him shift position in the chair. That's big adapting for him to do both of those things. When he says she's not my type, he thrust his chin with his lower teeth exposed. This is him in his usual thing when he's making a point. That's punctuation, not anger. Then you see his upper face. One of my favorite things I always say to you guys is amusement. His upper face becomes kind of smiley and amused with his brow and all that. But then down here is just flat. He's turtling. He's narrowing and getting smaller. Now, why? Don't know. Is he fed up? Is he trying to hide? I always say turtling is making the target smaller. Then he comes out with that emphatic hands and illustrating that Trump does with all that big stuff. When he says honest, he over pronounces a T, not my type over pronounces the P. That's Trump illustrating what Trump's thinking. We say illustrators, we mean punctuating words, thoughts or phrases punctuating what the brain thinks. Then finally, he does this last thing here and he goes this little short near nod with his face tilted and a short quip of yeah, we all do that on this show. I can tell you every one of you has done it at least once for a, I'll give you that. Well, okay. And so he does that. This is him again, saying something emphatic that is probably will be considered rude by anybody who's listening to him, but not shy about it and not hiding anything. Scott, what do you got? All right, it looks to me like he's locked down because we're not seeing much movement here. And he's given these fantastic one word answers. And I get to feel he knows this questioning is really bad. And I think he knows there's gonna be little or no pushback from the attorney. So I don't think he's afraid of anything there. So I think he's just at this point, just kind of hanging out, waiting for these horrible questions to hit him so he can answer them back. But when he brings his hands together in front of him, I'm under the impression he's just trying to get comfortable again. That's not from stress from the questions but it's from sitting in that one spot for so long. I don't know how long this thing went, but it's gotta be getting, it's gotta be weighing on him pretty good from having to sit there like that for so long. He's a big boy, you know. All right, Chase, what do you got? I agree with you guys. So the only two stress points here in the video are the buildup of the idea of the presence of a political agenda and this eventual attempt at obtaining evidence of it. The second point of stress here is when his statement about types is brought up and he then realizes the course that this question might be taking, which I think is away from his claim about the agenda. I think, and this just really brings him back to a confident demeanor. And this all suggests he's comfortable about the statements. He's confident in the answers around everything except for the results of whether or not people informed his campaign of any evidence of the political operation. Mark? Scott, I think you're right. I think, you know, this is actually quite a big kind of soothing gesture for him. And in my mind, it's like, he's just trying to hold it together because it's tiring and he's annoyed and bored and, you know, all kind of manner of things that somebody like him is gonna be. If you stick him in a room, one room for a long time and they're not in charge, essentially. So I think that's him just trying to hold it together a little bit. Now, there is just one area of this that I'm a little more skeptical on. Physically, she's not my type. What I see there is a very tiny, very quick single shoulder shrug on that. Now, I don't see any other indicators around this. And as you know, we're always looking for clusters. So is this single shoulder shrug an admittance of some criminal act? I don't think it's that, but it starts to make me think, well, I don't know, could she be, you know, somewhat your type? I mean, you know, somewhat. I mean, just, you know, even just a little bit, you know, right time, right day, you know, possible, it's possible. And then we get wouldn't be my type in any way, shape or form. And then we get another single shoulder shrug on the other side as well. So a couple of times there where he's saying, no, she's not for me. And we'll see him say the same thing a little bit later about the person interviewing him. And we'll see what happens in that situation there. But in this situation, we see for me two pronounced single shoulder shrugs around the same denial of physical attraction. I think to this particular person, he may, there may be an option for physical attraction there. Now, does that mean there was an option back then? Does he know the person? Does he has, well, you know, and then we get into a whole bunch of things. Well, how would it be now? Because there's, you know, the picture's blurry. So how would, how would he have any attraction for somebody blurry? So I don't know, I'm not a mind reader. Okay, I'm just giving you what I saw in that piece of film right now. And it makes me think, okay, let's take that into the next video and the next video, and let's see what comes up. Let's make a decision at the end of all of this. One of those tape replays. Another thing that you say in your June 21 statement is that Ms. Carroll was trying to carry out a political agenda. Yeah. Before issuing your statement on June 21, did you learn what political party Ms. Carroll belonged to? I didn't know that. Before you issued your June 21 statement, did you have any documents indicating that she was pursuing a political agenda? No. At the end of your statement, your June 21 statement, you say, if anyone has information that the Democratic Party is working with Ms. Carroll or New York Magazine, please notify us as soon as possible. Did anyone ever notify you about that? I don't know. Sitting here today, you can't recall anyone who notified you. I don't know, yeah. One of the other things that you said about Ms. Carroll at the time appears in your June 24 statement, which is DJT 22. And what you said there is, I'll say it with great respect, number one, she's not my type. When you said that Ms. Carroll was not your type, you meant that she was not your type physically, right? I saw her in a picture. I didn't know what she looked like. And I said it and I say it with as much respect as I can, but she is not my type. And again, when you say type, you just refer to looking at photos. So you mean physically she's not your type? Physically she's not my type. And now that I've gotten indirectly to hear things about her, she wouldn't be my type in any way, shape or form. But when you were talking back on June 24th, you were referring to her not being your type physically. I saw a photo of her. And the only difference between me and other people is I'm honest, she's not my type. I take it the three women you've married are all your type. Yeah. Now that you've heard it again and you have it in front of you, you'll again confirm that you wrote the whole thing yourself. I wrote it all myself. All myself. Now at the beginning of your post, the reference Ms. Bergdorf Goodman is a reference to Ms. Carol, right? That's right. Now when you say in here, I don't know this woman and have no idea who she is. Even though you're using the present tense, you're referring back to your knowledge as of when she first made the allegation. I still don't know this woman. I think she's a whack jab. I have no idea. I don't know anything about this woman other than what I read in stories and what I hear. I know nothing about her. Okay, well I guess the distinction I'm trying to make, sir, is that when the allegation came out in 2019, you said you, I think it's your testimony that you had no idea who she was. So I still don't. Well today you at least know that she's a plaintiff in a case suing you, Carl. Oh yes, that I know. But I know nothing about her. I think she's sick, mentally sick. Okay, you say in this post, use a strange word which I wanna ask you about. You say she completely made up a story that I met her at the doors of this crowded New York City department store and within minutes swooned her. Do you see that? Yeah. What is swooned? That would be a word maybe accurate or not having to do with talking to her and talking to do an act that she said happened which didn't happen. And it's a nicer word than the word that starts with an F. And this would be a word that I use because I thought it would be inappropriate to use the other word and it didn't happen. All right, Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so there's some potential distancing here, potentially where he couches the potentially criminal act that he's being accused of with a whole different word. You might look at that and you might go distancing. I think it's honest what he's doing there and why he's doing it because he doesn't want to use particular words that I'm not gonna use because the video would come down if I use those words. So, am I distancing myself from this whole thing? Maybe, maybe, maybe this will be the thing that causes some people to go, you've taken a check from that man or others you'd say you've taken a check from the other side, I don't know. Greg, what do you got on this one? Yeah, if I were distancing, I would probably not use the word he uses in this conversation because that makes you seem crass. So, I give him benefit of a doubt there. Look, when he just is contemptuous of this questioner, you can see him, yeah, all by myself and he just kind of does his trunk thing there, kind of like branding Little Marco or that thing. Both shoulders up at still, I don't know this woman, sarcasm and contempt in that I know. Look at that and you can see how he's dealing with this woman as he navigates words, he comes out of that turtled position and starts to illustrate. If you see his fingers spread on his arm, Chase talks about digital flexion, but when you see a person's fingers spread, they're ready to talk. So, when you're on a Zoom call and you see a person's fingers spread, you can know they're ready to talk and say, Chase, what do you have? You know, lean over to them. And then when he comes up, his fingers and thumbs are spreaded and Navarro says, that's confidence. When your fingers and thumbs are expanded and you're talking, he does a contracted denial. And usually when we see a person come out of turtling, it's not from guilt, it's usually the other way. So, this looks good for Trump. Chase, what do you got? So, we're seeing some closed eye talking here. And it's almost using the infantilizing tone with her, which I think match well with the closed eye talking, which kind of suggests someone's feeling a little bit pretentious about a topic that they believe. So, not a lot of deception clusters with that. This is a, I think this is potentially a deception cluster here. The moment he's making a denial about knowing nothing about the woman. There are a few behaviors that either suggest there's deception present, which means we're taking a slight departure from the avoided strategy for this denial. There's a single shrug, there's fidgeting, there's adapting on the wrists, which Mark taught me. And Mark's hands just for the record are about this wide in real life. And the zoom messes it up. But he, we were having a cocktail one night or something, and he grabbed me by the elbow, like right on that joint. And it was like, I had a visceral, like an ancestral kind of reaction to it. And that convinced me right there in the moment. Then we have some fidgeting, there's adapting on the wrist, then there's applying more forceful pressure to the joints. And finally, there's another shrug, which is bilateral, know nothing about her. And the final shrug I would not include in the deception cluster here. I think it's an apology. All shrugs contain a little form of sorry. So if we just do a little bit of context analysis to make sure we aren't off base. He was the president, I think. He likely knows a lot about her as his legal team most likely provided him with a dossier two feet thick on her. So his deception may not necessarily be indicating that he's been involved with her. It may be indicating that he may know a lot more than he's letting on. It could be because of relationship or an interaction, but it could also be because of a massive dossier. Scott, what do you got? All right, this is where for me, things begin to change. And he's doing a great job of staying in control of what he says and how he says it. And what we see here is in a nutshell, everything we've seen up to this point, but just on a little larger scale. So I think the hand path that he does is about patience. I mean, when he passes his hand like that, because I think, again, I keep saying, I think he's pretty much over it. In the scenario of a deposition like this, you sit there for a long time and instead of using something like a regulator, you know, let's come on. He's showing that he may not be showing them on purpose, but he's showing us that he's over it. You know, that he's getting bored. It's sort of like he's losing his patience with that. When he's answering, he goes into that stronger vocal tone that they used earlier. And again, his voice comes up a little bit. It's not enough to show anger, but it's enough to differentiate it from the simple quiet, yes, that we were hearing from earlier. And again, his facial expression, I think it indicates boredom. He clasps his hands together and that's a barrier, as a barrier. And I think as he's prepping for his answer, I think that's one thing he's kind of got that. I wanna say it's an adapter in a way that I'm really not sure, because I think he's not that he's excited. I think he's just moving around to switch things up a little bit. While he's answering also, he leaves his hand in the air as he's illustrating something. So, and as he finishes his answer, I think he wants to make sure he gets his point across, but then again, I think he's so focused on his answer that he may not realize that it's still sticking out there. We've seen that a couple of times before in other people. So there's no pontification here. There's no exaggerating to a great level that we're used to seeing with him. And I think he's been advised to keep things really short and keep the show out of it. So I think that's why it looks this way. It looks odd for Trump in this situation. All right, we good? Yeah. One of those tape replays. Now that you've heard it again and you haven't found it, you again confirm that you wrote the whole thing yourself. I wrote it all myself. All myself. Now, at the beginning of your post, the reference Ms. Bergdorf Goodman is a reference to Ms. Carol, right? That's right. Now, when you say in here, I don't know this woman and have no idea who she is. Even though you're using the present tense, you're referring back to your knowledge as of when she first made the allegation. I still don't know this woman. I think she's a wack jab. I have no idea. I don't know anything about this woman other than what I read in stories and what I hear. I know nothing about her. Okay, well, I guess the distinction I'm trying to make, sir, is that when the allegation came out in 2019, you said you, I think it's your testimony that you had no idea who she was. I still don't. Well, today, you at least know that she's a plaintiff in a case suing you, Carl. Oh, yes, that I know. But I know nothing about her. I think she's sick, mentally sick. Okay, you say in this post, use a strange word which I wanna ask you about. You say she completely made up a story that I met her at the doors of this crowded New York City department store and within minutes, swooned her. Do you see that? Yeah. What is swooned? That would be a word maybe accurate and having to do with talking to her and talking to do an act that she said happened, which didn't happen. And it's a nicer word than the word that starts with an F. And this would be a word that I use because I thought it would be inappropriate to use the other word and it didn't happen. In the interview, when Ms. Carol talked about, isn't it true that she said that's a view that many other people hold? Oh, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. All I know is I believe she said you're something to that effect, but you'll have to watch the interview. It's been a while. And just to clarify, I think you said a few minutes earlier that you used the word swooned as a synonym for, you said the F word for. Yeah, that's because that's what she said. What do you mean? She never used the word swooned. She said that I did something to her that never took place. There was no anything. I know nothing about this nut job. Okay, then you go on to say in the statement, and while I am not supposed to say it, I will. Why were you not supposed to say it? Because it's not politically correct to say. Read the next, go ahead, that she's not my type. Yeah, because it's not politically correct to say it, and I know that, but I'll say it anyway. She's accusing me of a woman that I have no idea who she is. It came out of the blue. She's accusing me of the worst thing you can do, the worst charge, and you know it's not true too, you're a political operative also, you're a disgrace, but she's accusing me and so are you, and it never took place, and I will tell you, I made that statement and I said, while it's politically incorrect, she's not my type, and that's 100% true, she's not my type. Chase, what do you got? The comfort level in this clip with using the R-word is off the charts. It's extremely uncommon behavior for guilty people. And again, we aren't the forensics panel, we're the behavior panel, so we're looking at behavior. And this, to me, and I won't speak for the other guys, this says none of the hallmarks that we would commonly be looking for in a guilty person, especially in a deposition. And before anybody jumps to conclusions, there are behavioral indicators that can't 100% be trained out of someone. And this is one of Trump's confidence indicators here, his lower jaw jumps into action every time he's becoming confident, his blink rate, shutter speed, tone, pitch, cadence, comfort, as contrasted to a few things that we saw earlier, where there might be something deceptive or amiss, are totally relaxed here and appear to be truthful to me, and this is just absent anything we'd normally be looking for. And I'm sure there might be some people warming their fingers up for the comment section. He's been coached, he's been trained, he's rehearsed this, he's a professional, but we've already caught several stress indicators already. And you cannot 100% train stress behavior out of a human being, not even a Navy SEAL as that capacity. And Greg is probably the stress expert, worked in literally a stress laboratory. So I'll pass it to you, Greg, what do you got? Yeah, there's no way to hide that. I mean, look, when I spent my life working teaching folks like Navy SEALs how to avoid interrogation, how to evade interrogation, and there's some steps, we never tried to make them proof from that. Because look, their brains are designed to find a threat and to respond. And that's what they do very, very, very well. All of us do. Thelma's picks up data, pushes it to our amygdala, our amygdala says threat, threat, threat. Even if it's wrong, we respond, our body responds. We are not going to train that out of anyone. The older you get, the more worn out it might get, but not that far. And this guy responds to threat pretty quickly. That's why he does all this stuff like what I, during the campaigns I would say does a flaming bag, he throws out words, you have to respond to or look stupid because that's his fight-or-flight response, how he deals with people. But he's back to a lockdown deposition baseline, I think in the start of this, and then we see congruent body language for I don't know. When he says you'd have to watch the video, one shoulder up, I've never seen it. That fits in this case. We always tell you that one shoulder up might mean uncertainty. Well, if I'm uncertain what's in the video, I'm probably going to do that. So it fits perfectly. When he says it's been a while, look at that chin and chase your dead on. That's the thing I was saying earlier, chin thrust and teeth exposed is not anger, it's defiance and it's kind of his trademark, if you will. And then he goes, yeah, that's him being genuine. I don't think there's anything wrong with him using that word. He rushes to clarify why he used a specific word earlier and that specific word was a bad choice. But I'm with you, Chase. I have never in my life dealt with somebody who's committed a crime that is comfortable with using the word, the word, whatever that word is, whatever the horrific word is, they usually are going to soften it, they're going to avoid it, they're going to do whatever. And his mouth is open and defiant, more than it was when he was saying whether he had screwed around on his wife. If you want to talk about a strong positive denial, pretty strong. Again, here's that brow, there's not a brow rising the entire thing, the brow is down, his voice is telling, she's accusing me. He's showing disgust when he's addressing the charge. We see it in his nose. That's a rare thing to see all those things together and the telling. Then there's anger at the accusation and look, this just goes on and on and on. There's no severity softening. He's direct and he takes the opportunity to use that anger and this is just like him branding in some other place. So this one looks good for Trump, in my opinion. Scott, what do you got? All right. This is the most conversational he combated it. He's been so far. So, and this is, he's in his wheelhouse at this point because he's comfortable arguing or taking the opposing stance and he's great at it. And this is why he's become the most animated he's been so far. He leans toward the attorney a little bit and even turns his torso toward her. And the short quiet answers are gone and he's in not full on attack mode but he's in the process of going into that of attacking. This is the way it looks to me. So his head tilt lets us know he's in teaching mode. That's something I learned from Greg when I had sent him a video a while back as well. I was like, what's going on here? He said, he's teaching, man. So that's what, when somebody tilts their head and goes, well, you know so-and-so does this or that. That's when they're telling you the way it is. And in this, but he's adding a teaching thing to it. When you see it, you understand what I'm talking about when you watch it again. His blink rate's very low. So that lets us know that he's not too worried about what's happening. He's not too worried about going in on this situation because he's confident with that, I think. And usually when someone is in defense mode, we'll see a lot of the signs and cues of stress that we talked about earlier. And Greg, whatever the knitted brow and all that, I'm trying to not do the same things you guys have been doing. We're seeing that jetted chin and those teeth. But then again, you covered that, Greg. It's not anger. It's just defiance. So at the end he says, it's 100% true. She's not my type. We see the head illustrating each word. It's a fantastic example of using the head as an illustrator. Are we good? Oh, Mark? I'll be quick. I'll be fast. Look, we all know he's a performer. He's a really good performer. He had a hit TV show. You might like that show. You might not like that show. There's lots of shows that I don't like, but it doesn't mean the performers aren't good in it. He's a good performer. So you might well say, well, then he's probably a good actor and he could probably mock this one up and cheat people like us. Well, I know some of the techniques that he uses because some of those techniques are mine and I know exactly who taught him those techniques. And he's not using any of those right now. What he is doing, now he does know that he's on camera because he goes right down the lens on his denial. So he does know that you and I and the rest of the world were gonna get a look at this. So yes, he is a performer. Yes, he is using the technique of looking down the lens, but he's not using any of the countermeasures for stress or pressure. That he does know exactly how to use when he's giving a speech. It's an adamant denial, I would say, down the camera. There's no hand over the wrist at this point. So he doesn't feel, in my mind, under pressure. There's no vocal plicks beforehand or any of the other things that I've seen him do in this particular interview and some others when he's under more stress and pressure. So straight down the camera, adamant denial, I agree, it looks pretty good for him. And I don't see any performance measures that he's using and I know the ones that he would use. One of those tape replays. In the interview, when Ms. Carol talked about, isn't it true that she said that's a view that many other people hold? Oh, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. All I know is I believe she said there was something to that effect, but you'll have to watch the interview. It's been a while. And just to clarify, I think you said a few minutes earlier that you used the word swooned as a synonym for, you said the F word. Yeah, that's because that's what she said. What do you mean, she never used the word swooned? She said that I did something to her that never took place. There was no anything. I know nothing about this nut job. Okay, then you go on to say in the statements, and while I am not supposed to say it, I will. Why were you not supposed to say it? Because it's not politically correct to say. Read the next, go ahead, that she's not my type. Yeah, because it's not politically correct to say it, and I know that, but I'll say it anyway. She's accusing me of a woman that I have no idea who she is. It came out of the blue. She's accusing me of the worst thing you can do, the worst charge, and you know it's not true too, you're a political operative also, you're a disgrace, but she's accusing me, and so are you, and it never took place, and I will tell you, I made that statement, and I said, well, it's politically incorrect, she's not my type, and that's 100% true, she's not my type. Now, in your true social statement on October 12th, you use the word hoax. Specifically, you say it is a hoax and a lie, just like all the other hoaxes that have been played on me for the past seven years. Do you see that? Yeah. Recall making that statement. And I take it, what you're saying there is, Ms. Carol fabricated her claim that you sexually assaulted her, correct? Yes, totally, 100%. Fair to say, you'd agree with me, would you not, that you use the term hoax quite a lot? Yes, I do. CNN reported that you used it more than 250 times in 2020, does that sound right to you? Could be, I've had a lot of hoaxes played on me, this was one of them. And how would you define the word hoax? A fake story, a false story, a made up story. Something that's not true. Something that's not true, yes. Sitting here today, can you recall what else you have referred to as a hoax? Sure. The Russia, Russia, Russia hoax. It's been proven to be a hoax. Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine hoax. The Mueller situation for two and a half years hoax ended in no collusion, it was a whole big hoax. The lying to the Pfizer court hoax, the lying to Congress many times hoax by all these people, this scum that we have in our country, lying to Congress hoax, spying on my campaign hoax, they spied on my campaign and now they admit it. That was another hoax. And then I could get a whole list of them. And this is a hoax too. This, when you say this and that. There's this ridiculous situation that we're doing right. It's a big fat hoax. She's a liar and she's a sick person, in my opinion, really sick, something wrong with her. Okay, in addition to the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax, the Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine hoax, the Mueller or Mueller hoax, the lying to Pfizer hoax, the lying to Congress hoax and the spying on your campaign hoax. Isn't it true that you also referred to the use of mail-in ballots as a hoax? Yeah, I do, sure. I do. I think they're very dishonest. Mail-in ballots, very dishonest. And isn't it true that you yourself have voted by mail? I do, I do, sometimes I do, but I don't know what happens to it once you give it. I have no idea. All right, Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so something that's not true, yes, he says. Something that's not true, yes, and he gives a microgesture of disgust. And that would be exactly the gesture that we'd want to see alongside that. They're very dishonest, he says, and he shows a microgesture of disgust and anger. Again, it's exactly what we'd want to see with this. He has some very true feelings about people hoaxing. He believes those hoaxes to be hoaxes, and he's disgusted and angry about them. Chase, what do you think on this one? I think it's funny that whether we're perceived as right or wrong in this will be determined by how some people feel before they even watch this video. Yeah, it's great. There's probably some thick, I would call it thick cognitive bias that's gonna get triggered here. But right when the lawyer says fabricated her claim, there's a postural retreat adjustment in the chair. Then he says there's something wrong with her. There's more adjustment and a characteristic sharp inhale, which I told you was one of his tells. This is why clusters are important to look for. So let's look at the four C's of reading body language. I literally made these up today. Number one is changes to context, clusters, and then checklist. So the checklist of what to look for in deception should be the last thing, which they should do that in that order. Changes, context, clusters, and checklist. There's not enough here to even score above an 11 on the behavioral table of elements, which is like a deception tool. You can download in the Chase Use app if you want to. Maybe he's a narcissist or whatever people wanna say, but when you use that to predetermine how you feel about his statements, that is the moment you become a fool. Scott, what do you got? All right, the anger and frustration are starting to ramp up here. And in this clip, everything happens with the head and the face. There's no illustrating in the hands at all. Not even a little bit. Very little movement in the hands as far as adapting goes. Now, he does move from side to side with his entire upper body, but I think that looks to me like it's his way of adapting without squeezing his hand or doing anything like that. Plus, I think maybe the excitement, believe it or not, you guys, I think it's the excitement of getting into the fight right here because it's his wheelhouse. He loves doing that. We know that. Everybody knows that. So I think that's what that is. We do see some mouth movement and chin jutting, and I'm under the impression those are the behaviors we see when he's thinking in this situation. So as well as blink rates increased since the last few videos, and I think the stress is coming from trying to stay in control as she's asking him these questions. He's having to go over all the hoaxes so far. So I think she's trying to get him worked up so he'll lose it and get a little bit mad and say some things that they may be able to use. But I think her questioning is, I don't think in my opinion, I'm not an attorney, but it looks to me like questions should be asked different if something like that were to happen. I don't think she's prepared to do that. I don't think she would be good at that. I think you can squish out of those. Greg, what do you got? Yeah, I'm not gonna cover a lot. You guys covered a whole lot of this already. The two things that jump off the plate to me is absolute contempt. When she starts down this line of questions, you see that face jump up. And then I said, same thing, Mark. I saw that discussed as well. Interestingly for me, I'm gonna give you something really easy. I'm a baseline boy. You guys all know that. This is a great opportunity because he is rattling off hoaxes that have been proven. Whatever your political bent, forget that for a minute. Things that he can go back and say, cleared, cleared, cleared, cleared. Those are facts in his head. And he approaches those with the same exact body language he approaches whether she is a hoax or not. That should be telling to you. If body language changed, I would be all over it. Trust me, I'd be the guy going, something's different, why? When he calls her a hoax, he's very different than when he calls cleared hoaxes. You would think that could give you some insight into what's going on inside his head, although we don't read minds. One of those tape replays. Now, in your true social statement on October 12th, you used the word hoax. Specifically, you say it is a hoax and a lie, just like all the other hoaxes that have been played on me for the past seven years. Do you see that? Yeah. Recall making that statement. And I take it, what you're saying there is, Ms. Carol fabricated her claim that you sexually assaulted her, correct? Yes, totally. 100%. Fair to say, you'd agree with me, would you not, that you use the term hoax quite a lot? Yes, I do. CNN reported that you used it more than 250 times in 2020, does that sound right to you? Could be. I've had a lot of hoaxes played on me. This was one of them. And how would you define the word hoax? A fake story, a false story, a made up story. Something that's not true. Something that's not true, yes. Sitting here today, can you recall what else you have referred to as a hoax? Sure. The Russia, Russia, Russia hoax. It's been proven to be a hoax. Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine hoax. The Mueller situation for two and a half years hoax ended in no collusion, it was a whole big hoax. The lying to the FISA court hoax, the lying to Congress many times hoax by all these people, this scum that we have in our country, lying to Congress hoax, spying on my campaign hoax, they spied on my campaign and now they admit it. That was another hoax. And I could get a whole list of them. And this is a hoax too. This, when you say this and that, there's this ridiculous situation that we're doing right. It's a big fat hoax. She's a liar and she's a sick person, in my opinion, really sick, something wrong with her. Okay, in addition to the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax, the Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine hoax, the Mueller or Mueller hoax, the lying to FISA hoax, the lying to Congress hoax and the spying on your campaign hoax, isn't it true that you also referred to the use of mail-in ballots as a hoax? Yeah, I do, sure. I do, I think they're very dishonest. Mail-in ballots, very dishonest. And isn't it true that you yourself have voted by mail? I do, I do, sometimes I do, but I don't know what happens to it once you give it. I have no idea. You're familiar with a woman by the name of Jessica Leeds? No, I don't think so. Explain, go ahead. Does that mean that this refreshed your recollection through Jessica Leeds? Yes, this woman made up a story, just like your client made it up, just made up a story. Having to do with sitting next to me in an airplane. And I mean, I'll have to read this again, but that story was so false also, but this was, I guess, making out as opposed to what your client said, this story was so false. This is a disgrace also. And do you recall speaking about Ms. Leeds' allegations at campaign events in 2016? I might have, I thought it was so, like your client, I thought it was so ridiculous. Okay, let's take a look at the next video, which is DJT38. DJT38? All right. Movement, and there's never been anything like this in the United States. And the only way they figure they can slow it down is to come up with people that are willing to say, oh, I was with Donald Trump in 1980. Nothing changes. I was sitting with him on an airplane. And he went after me on the plane. Yeah, I'm gonna go after him. Believe me, she would not be my first choice that I can tell you. No, that would not be my first choice. When you said in that video that Ms. Leeds would not be your first choice, you were referring to her physical looks, correct? Just the overall, I look at her, I see her, I hear what she says, whatever. You wouldn't be a choice of mine either, to be honest with you. I hope you're not insulted. I would not, under any circumstances, have any interest in you. I'm honest when I say it. She, I would not have any interest in. In the video, we just watched. All right, Greg, what do you got? Yeah, so look at the amusement when he looks at this picture. Look, this guy is far from politically correct. And he's, he is not, maybe it's not sophisticated. I wouldn't, I don't know what to call it. Maybe it's that. But he's willing to say things that very few people are willing to say, no matter how bad it makes him look. I just, something in his wiring, don't know. But he shows no shame as he watches his words here, because he was speaking words he thought to be whatever he thinks is true. I hear him say honest when he does that, this guy's being empathic. Then the uphands and illustrators that we traditionally associate with him as president, whatever, and then he moves to directly assault the woman who's asking the questions by saying, you wouldn't be a choice of mine either. His shoulders are up, his palms are out. That's a classic disclaimer. And then he goes, I hope you weren't insulted. Like, I don't think that part's true, but the rest of it, I think is pretty open expression of how he thinks. Then he crosses his entire body. I don't know what caused that because it's really bad editing, but whoever's prepared him was brilliant not to have his hands free and open. Because if you do that, when you feel uncomfortable, that's the stuff we all jump on or those deviations from baseline. So he's been locked down this entire time. Look, I think you can't win with the kind of words he's using. And this is what makes people, it's chase to your point, jump to a conclusion even before they listen to his words because of how open he is with saying things like this. But whether he's true, whether he's being honest or not is what we're looking for. We're looking for deviation in baseline. We're looking for what that does. Scott, what do you got? All right, we're finally seeing classic Trump. This is the guy we know. We're seeing all as big as his greatest hits on this one. We're seeing those elbows to the sides and his hands come out and he's doing that number. Then he brings his hands together and looks down into him and says, like he's talking to something and then goes back to that. It's all the classic moves. There's a comedian named Shane Gillis. He does the quintessential Trump impersonation. He's got it down, he nails it. So that's what we're seeing here. We're seeing all the classics. That's the only thing missing from this. He does all the hits with the one pointing thing. So during the order of the encore, he'll come out and do that one, I think. Because we even see squinting at the very beginning. Quite often when we see squinting, that suggests someone is trying to think of something or trying to think back. Maybe this happened or that happened or they'll see something that looks like it might hurt and they'll squint, but he's doing that. I think he's trying to remember a person or a specific situation he's talking to in that spot. I don't think he's afraid of this attorney and the questioning I know I said it before, but it is atrocious. I mean, these questions are so simple to get around. You could train anybody in a very short amount of time how to weave in and out of these and get out with nothing on you. I think you can get out of that really, really easily. Chase, what do you got? Yeah, this is kind of the classic. This is the hallmark behavior of an indignant 16-year-old boy in the principal's office. And there's some key moments where he takes advantage of the questions, which are kind of bad, to insert pretty much anything he wants to. So he continues to make these stabs at her case, her client, and finally her as a person at the end. There was no deception here that I see, but it didn't seem like many relevant questions were even asked other than this one-pointed one about the appearance. So just Trump continues this avoidance strategy, but at least kind of provides somewhat of an answer. Mark? Yeah, totally great. It's classic, Trump, you're right. Scott, we haven't got the OKL gesture in there yet. That would really be the icing on the cake there. But what we do have, and Greg, I was thinking of you when I was looking at this, is a classic example of status down for the interrogator rather than the subject. I mean, really, it should be the other way round. But he's managed to switch this inquisition, this interrogation, the questioning round, and is doing status down on the person who should be in charge and should really be poking that at him in order to get a response, because you could get a response out of him if you went in that direction. For sure, you poke him on that status and you could get him over the edge. She's not managing to do that, and so he does it to her. Interesting, interesting to see. One of those tape replays. You're familiar with a woman by the name of Jessica Leeds? No, I don't think so. Explain, go ahead. Does that mean that just refreshed your recollection of this woman? Yes, this woman made up a story just like your client made it up, just made up a story, having to do with sitting next to me in an aeroplane. And I mean, I'll have to read this again, but that story was so false also, but this was, I guess, making out as opposed to what your client said. This story was so false. This is a disgrace also. And do you recall speaking about Ms. Leeds allegations at campaign events in 2016? I might have. I thought it was so, like your client, I thought it was so ridiculous. Okay, let's take a look at the next video, which is DJT38, correct? Great movement, and there's never been anything like this in the United States, and the only way they figure they can slow it down is to come up with people that are willing to say, oh, I was with Donald Trump in 1980. Nothing changes. I was sitting with him on an aeroplane, and he went after me on the plane. Yeah, I'm gonna go after. Believe me, she would not be my first choice that I can tell you. Man, you don't know, that would not be my first choice. When you said in that video that Ms. Leeds would not be your first choice, you were referring to her physical looks, correct? Just the overall, I look at her, I see her, I hear what she says, whatever. You wouldn't be a choice of mine either, to be honest with you. I hope you're not insulted. I would not, under any circumstances, have any interest in you. I'm honest when I say it. She, I would not have any interest in. The video, we just watched. All right, Mark, what do you think we've seen after this point? Yeah, I mean, I thought to the end, we were starting to see some classic Trump. We saw him really relaxed at the start. I've seen a lot of honest behavior from him. Look, you as an audience, you're gonna like this or you're not gonna like this, depending on all kind of things. Here's what I'd say at the end of this is, look, he may well have been a bad lad. He has been a bad lad. There's all kinds of stuff has gone on. You know that, I know that. But if you're gonna get somebody, you have to get them on the real thing. And this might not be it. This might not be it. But look, it's going in front of a jury, I think. So the jury will decide. And that's the beautiful thing about modern systems of justice. Chase, what do you think? So when Trump was being interviewed in court, you can't, we're not trying to say for sure, whether he's innocent or guilty. But you can tell a lot from how he acts and what he doesn't say. So some of these videos look like he was really nervous, maybe trying to hide something, and others didn't. And just because somebody's acting a certain way doesn't mean they're lying or guilty. It's all about the evidence. So just kind of think of us on this show like a metal detector. And what I mean by that, it's at airport or beach, wherever you happen to imagine an airport metal detector, we're the ones who can tell you where to start looking and who to look at. But whether you're gonna find a soda can lid or an AK-47 is up to whoever's doing the digging and getting the evidence, which is not us. We're just gonna let you know the places to dig. So you're not digging up an entire beach. We're just gonna show you right where to dig. That would cause a lot of lower back pain, Greg. Yeah, more importantly, I think the difference here is somebody else is digging and they're digging in the wrong spot. They're poorly questioned. They didn't bring the right shovel. So we don't control that. What we do control, you heard me say early, is I would narrow down his ability to respond. We didn't get any of that. But what we all saw, you heard good for Trump or bad for Trump. We're not gonna tell you who we think is telling a truth or lying, because we didn't see the other side. And more importantly, 12 people will tell us what they think over the next few days. Scott, what have you seen? I think this is a great example of the questioning not being up to par the way it should be. You've got a golden chance to go in there and really do something. And the questioning is just a little bit lame. And you're seeing the person being questioned just as confident as they've ever been in most of that. So I think it's, man, I think it was a swing and a miss. I think it was a lost opportunity there for that attorney. All right, fellas, I think there's another good one and we'll see you next time. So what do you got?