 Think Tech Hawaii, civil engagement lives here. Aloha, I am your host Winston Welch and I am delighted you are joining us again today for this out and about show where every other week we explore a variety of topics, organizations and events with the people who fuel them in our city, state, country and world. As a disclaimer, any views or opinions expressed by me are strictly my own and not connected with any organization. That said, joining me today in the studio is that national, international guest Hans Peter Hoeter, who is social scientist, senior scientist, associate professor and deputy head at the Department of Environmental Health, the Center for Public Health at the Medical University of Vienna. He's a doctor, an ecologist and a researcher in environmental public health. It's a lot of words to you, so welcome to this show today and thank you for joining us. Yeah, thank you for the invitation. Well, you know when we first met, I was immediately fascinated with the type of work that you do. And I think that a lot of people don't even, can't imagine maybe what it is you do do. So what kind of work do you do in an ordinary, you know, for your job? For a daily work. Daily work, yeah. I'm a researcher and lecturer at the university, at the Medical University and besides that, we do not only do our research for journals where we publish it, we have to bring our research out to the public because when it comes to environmental health, the topics they concern, these topics concern the people outside, like, I don't know, pollution in the air, outer air pollution, climate change, to nutrition facts like chemicals in pesticides and nutrition and so on. So you're a medical doctor and a researcher and a professor. So you're teaching typical college age students or are they graduate students? They are graduate students. We have those regular university students and, of course, we have some postdoc lecturing where, when we are teaching students for public health courses, for example. Okay. And how does the public get your information? You said part of your job is to give information to the public. This show is one way we can get information. There are different ways. First of all, when we do some research, we have always a press release on our results. This is right now one of the targets of our university, that we think that it's not only for the specialists who are reading those journals, it is for the public. And so we do press release and, of course, if there is some emergency issue in Austria, for example, is there a problem with mobile phones? And there are some organizations who wanted some talk or presentations. We stand for that and we are doing that presentations in order to give information which is scientifically based. Okay. And your university is a public university, meaning it's supported by taxpayer dollars? That's correct. And therefore, the task is for me obvious, especially for public health. It has in the name public health public. So we do not only make our research in our small rooms. Okay. And so how did you get interested in this work? What's your background that you became involved in? First of all, I studied ecology. And after two years, all my colleagues, they got specialized, for example, in biology, or in geology. And I thought ecology and association to human health. Is there an association? How is it? And I decided at this time that I studied medicine together with ecology. That was the starting point, actually. So you studied ecology. And ecology is the study of our environment? That's correct. That is the science of associations and connections in between our ecology, ecological system. And this is a very systemic approach to look at our world. But it's not focused on human health. It's pure nature and how does it work? And what I tried to figure out is, okay, we are here as a human being. How do we interfere? Or how can we get good out of this very intense system we are surrounded by? So you've finished your ecological studies, which would have been... More or less. I worked parallel. Oh, parallel. Okay. And then you became a medical doctor. And did you actually end up practicing medicine as well? You have to do. Because you have to do your specialization. So I did my specialization in environmental health, which is a perfect combination to my ecological study. What is environmental health? Environmental health is investigating environmental factors, physical, like noise, or chemical, like pesticides or industrial chemicals, and their effect on human health. Is there... Are some factors associated with a health problem? This is the main focus. And there are two approaches. One is simply curative and medical. So if we have a patient and there is some chronic disease and we are... We try to analyze the situation. And we think there might be an environmental factors which aggravates that disease. We are looking on that. This is really individual, but the other approach, which is, in my view, a lot interesting and much more interesting and much more important is the preventive approach. So we try to establish and to develop guidelines which we recommend to the policy makers to implement. In order to protect the health of the population. For example, we have a fine particle problem due to diesel exhaust, for example. Fine particle problem from diesel exhaust. So there are very super fine particles in less than 100 nanometers, let's say. Very, very fine. So we have a problem and we try to generate and develop guidelines which says if you keep the concentration of particles in this level, you can protect human health. So you have obviously studied this field quite widely. You're a teacher in it. And now that you've been studying ecological health and human health and public health, some things are coming to the top of what's important in life now. And probably you have some things that seem more important than others to you and maybe some seem even critical to you in regards to human health or I'm even probably thinking planetary health and our effect on planetary health. And one question I want to ask you later, keep in your mind is are we going to be the last generation of humans to exist as we understand it or are we so quickly destroying our environment or are you an optimist or are we going to live in a post-apocalyptic world or are you optimistic? Very, very difficult question. I must admit, but however, there are some major issues, I would say. One major issue is, of course, air pollution. When you think globally, we know that several millions are dying premature death due to air pollution, indoor and outdoor air pollution. So the outdoor air pollution is generated by our transportations and fuels. So the next step is, okay, fossil fuels, where they will come from, okay, you'll need some countries, oil countries. How is that generated? So you start with air pollution and you end up in climate change. It naturally is going from one to the other. You start with thinking about greenhouse gases, is it only coming from our transportations is no, it's coming from our food chain, for example, or nutrition. When you're following that, you will stop all of a sudden with how is our agricultural system. Is it sustainable or not? Do we need a lot of fertilizer? Do we need a lot of pesticides to generate and to produce that product? So you come to nutrition and it's really hard to say this is more important. You can, I think it's very important is that you say all of those problems we're facing is in connection with our behavior and attitude with our wishes. Is our consumption and our wishes for consumption designed like today that we think we can have everything very easy or do we consider more, if I step back a little bit, I can help myself in concerns in regard of health and I help our ecology, our ecological system. So all of these things are just very interconnected as you start to say it's air pollution caused by fossil fuels, but fossil fuels feed our plant, our nutrition environment and then how healthy is our nutrition as well. I was just watching, I think it's food ink. It was a 10-year-old documentary on Netflix a couple of nights ago and I could see that and I think most of our viewers will probably understand that our system is very industrialized, it's very mechanized, it's very fossil fuel dependent also for fertilizers and chemicals as well used to kill pests or maybe some herbal things. So all of this is connected and then we're consuming these products as well as now genetically modified organisms and I want to ask you about that too. So it's interesting because your work sounds like it touches on, you can't isolate just you try to isolate one thing but it's probably difficult because of these factors. Yes, you have to isolate because the fuel and everything is so complicated and the connections are very hard to understand and it's very hard to bring it up to the public. So you pick for example one issue you think which is very important for us like transportation and air pollution. So you can explain that if the level or concentrations of particulate matter is above a special limit you know that in the community there will be pre-major death account for example I don't know 1,000, 2,000 whatever. You can pick this and can bring it in order to raise awareness. It's only one aspect but when it comes to the public you can say yes this is an air pollution problem but when we try to bring a solution it's very easy for you. Transportation means that we are using cars. If you use a car for example for half a mile what's an easy alternative you can walk you can read your bicycle or whatever your bike. So you start with it's a problem air pollution and it can damage yourself and your health. On the other hand if you substitute that for example one mile you are doing it with a bike you can help to lower the air pollution and you have a co-benefit because your physical activity in the average is far too less you have a benefit for your health so you protect on one hand the environment on the other side you can do something very easily cost efficient promoting your own health so the public becomes personal that's right it's the aim because otherwise when we are talking about problems to abstract yeah so if we say instead Hans Peter walked to the store and on the way to the store you're going to meet the butcher the baker and the candlestick maker you're going to make some new friends have some connections talk to people with their dog yeah you're going to have a lot of sort more social connections social that's a psychological psychosocial aspect of transportation right so and then maybe it leads into another area might be okay well instead of fossil fuels let's get some solar here or maybe I don't know wind a small wind farm on your ceiling and if you are following that thought it's of course important to make the way more attractive it's not attractive if you walk one block I don't know with no side with no sidewalk without anything yeah small sidewalk yeah hundred cars next to you yeah there is no green space nothing there is no shop anymore because they are gone yeah this is a next feature that you think that you see that city planning walking on the other hand less physical activity with our children is connected in that way it's very interesting and it and it is a way to bring the the abstract to the personal and then the personal back to the planning and saying that's correct I'm walking along here but the sidewalk isn't here there's no shops like it's dangerous to walk here so we need to fix this somehow or create a separate bike lane that's safe or whatever it is so obviously this is one of one really good example of how we can take this these complex issues that are facing us and we'll get to this after the break because we will take a break here but of how what can sometimes I think all the information out there all the noise so much information what can I do to make a difference so when we come back we're going to talk about that a little bit more along with some other things that we haven't touched on you're obviously a very deep thinker and really valuable the lucky that the that the university has you and that our society has you because you're you're you're asking very serious questions and able to communicate thank you for also being so fluent in English appreciate that because my German is I gotta say it's not good 50 50 anyway well thank you we are going to take a short break I'm Winston Welchess is out and about on the think tech live streaming network series and we're talking with Hans Peter Hooter who is here on a vacation but actually learning a lot about Hawaii so we'll be back in a minute stay tuned for more of the story hello I'm Yukari Kunisue I'm your host of new Japanese language show on think tech Hawaii called Konnichiwa Hawaii Worldcasting live every other Monday at 2 p.m. please join us where we discuss important and useful information for the Japanese language community in Hawaii the show will be all in Japanese hope you can join us every other Monday at 2 p.m. Aloha Aloha I am Howard Wigg I am the proud host of cold green for think tech Hawaii I appear every other Monday at 3 and I have really really exciting guests on the exciting topic of energy efficiency hope to see you there we're back Ken we're live I'm Winston Welch and this is out and about on the think tech live streaming network series and we're talking with Hans Peter Hooter senior scientist associate professor and deputy head at the department of environmental health center for public health medical university of Vienna he's an ecologist a medical doctor and a researcher in environmental public health and I thank you again for being here with us today and taking time out of your your vacation which is here and but you give a lot of presentations around the world I think and on these topics so now that you've come here to Hawaii and you've seen this a paradise that we have here what are your initial impressions and are there anything that you would say right away for our policy makers here's an idea that maybe you haven't thought of or here's something you're doing really good or both let's start with a very personal impression okay when I was walking at the street and the shops are open and cold air is pouring out of the shop of those shops yeah I think if it comes to climate change and sustainable thinking this is really not understandable inside it's like you are entering a refrigerator the doors are wide open and you have an ac which has to work and I know that the consumption of electricity for this is enormous it's enormous so this is a very easy thing that first of all it's too cool inside yeah which is not good for human health employees yeah for them it's not good for a customer because you come from very hot very hot to very cold yeah and this temperature difference is far too big okay so if you are reducing that problem so you're increasing the temperature inside you save a lot of energy a lot of money so I do not understand why the shops are doing this it's interesting only completely strange for me okay so close the doors and don't leave on the air conditioner so cold the air condition is you need to increase the temperature inside yeah the same with so everybody I know that air conditioning is in the US and in some Asian countries very important yeah but wherever I'm going and observing temperature difference and outside far too far too big too much too much so first second this is a beautiful island no doubt but the transportation system is not that which I would expect in an island with this reservoir of nature as far as I got to know Hawaii is advertising its nature so how does that is in line with the transportation system which is built which is based only only more or less except for the buses on individual motorization yes I don't understand that and I think this is a must to change we have more cars than people on this island more registered vehicles it's not wandering yeah it's a it's a big problem and in fact Hawaii has I think the worst traffic gridlock in the country we compete with Los Angeles but there's you know there's a million people on this island and it's only this big so it's it's a it's a good question and a hard one and as we are looking at increasing populations here as we drove from Waikiki to downtown and I told you there's going to be another 11 towers planned just in one small area maybe 20 or 20 and you know in the next five or 10 years this is an this is an enormous challenge I know that because you have a built structure and how do you change that into a environmental friendly transportation system I know this is a challenge but actually when you look at the figures and even if you say or climate change I don't care it's a question of health of the people here we know that car dependency is associated with for example obesity because there is a lack of physical activity yeah so even you say oh I don't care for oil resources fuel whatever it comes down to the health of the people so you might have some people actually that leads to something so we need to look at how we're rebuilding our or retrofitting our our urban environment to have more walkability more trees somehow small scale small scale small scale areas where we can walk to shops and to medical appointments and have the smaller neighborhoods and for example and very important for your children because yes the development of the children I know it's in Austria it's something better something in Vienna is is worse yeah but when it comes to transportation traffic parents are afraid to bring to leave the children alone at the street sure because just because of danger yeah it's a danger it's a risk so we need to have safe places okay they stay home they look at their smartphone or a tv and then you have another problem so transportation system and with a transportation system I think city planning is is is combined with that is one of the major issues we have to think about and I think we're we're working on it here in Hawaii we're we're looking to get right now we have about 20 21 canopy cover of trees in the urban area but it's been decreasing every year because mostly of development they cut down the trees we're looking at trying to get back to 35 percent canopy by 2035 and do our part for for the the heat urban heat in island index where the concrete is making it very hot in here so that's one area because if it's too hot to walk outside guess what we're not going to walk outside old people can't go outside kids can't go outside dogs can't go outside and they the use of air condition will increase and it has to increase has to increase because you cannot stay as with when when you when you are older and maybe you have a lung or a heart disease in a hot apartment yeah it's impossible so the the idea to bring in a lot of plants is the same as you bring in a natural air condition so this is the first you have to do and what what what's important for me you do not need to invent all that measures I know books of that plan to treat everything and and how which one where how many square meter everything is here yeah this is I think always the message to the politicians or decision makers just do it do not have to invent it yeah please look at best practice here yes best practice yes but just think about it it's worthwhile to do that yes it's important it's critical I think in fact to do it because our cities are going to become unlivable if we don't do it we're looking at some climate change whether you believe it's human made or not and in fact we have a major political party and a president of the nation who says the climate change is not human made and that the climate change may not even be real now the the pentagon has identified climate change as one of the top threats facing the nation which is interesting from a military perspective WHO and and all how do you deal with how do you deal with colleagues and with with people who are smart who say Hans Peter come on that's just it's fake it's fake news it doesn't exist humans have existed for you know 100 000 years the climate change is a little bit now and then it used to Europe used to be an ice now it's going to get a little bit warmer this is all not true how do you deal with that as a scientist trying to give science-based information okay first of all in the last couple of years it becomes more and more difficult to bring up the scientific evidence to the politicians not because it's too complicated but if it's something which is not really nice or which you or an issue where you say ooh we have to go against the cars and you have to go against some too hard inside or chemical industry yeah leave it yeah so uh the thing we are observing is that it's more doubt on evidence even this evidence that's 100 percent yeah it's not at all say you know very high percent super high percentage yeah but you cannot it may be there is some some doubt yeah uh is for us a very big problem because sometimes I'm saying okay maybe in the next time is then is two plus two really four yeah so we just where do it end it up yeah go to the solution directly we have to um we have either you are discussing with those colleagues yeah and I have to say back home uh it's scientists 98 99 percent says yes that is a problem and it's human weight so we're hoping the truth wins yeah we hope that but it's really a big problem for us well I because you are you are there is a lot of work into that science and if the science is not taking as it is why are we working on that well don't give don't give up on speeder because we I think the truth will prevail of course it has to people see it for what it is as we leave today and we have to close what is the one thing that I can do if there's one thing or maybe three very simple things I can do in a couple words to make a difference because all this is out here but what can I do as an individual first of all more respect to to the nature okay the second is very simple when it comes to transportation more work okay think about that another thing why turn on your turn off your air condition when you're leaving the house okay and the other thing is um eat less eat less yeah okay well and it's true I know the studies show us yeah alternate day fasting and all types of things so walk more need not to be fasting yeah it's only a little bit limitation it's we are here and maybe okay one will well really simple and I wish we had more time to explore these topics maybe you'll come back to Hawaii again and we can but I'm afraid we have to wrap it up today so we're going to walk more we're going to eat less we're going to be more conscious of respect of the environment and each other so I really appreciate you coming on the show today um we've just barely touched on all of issues I encourage people to go to the internet and find out more about them for themselves what they can do to make a difference so I'm sorry folks we are out of town it's awful we have to wrap it up I am Winston Welch this is out and about on the think tech live streaming network series and we've been having a very interesting discussion with the super smart and nice guy Hans Peter Hooter who's a medical doctor and researcher doing very interesting work on environmental public health and we hope that you've enjoyed today as much as I have so thank you for tuning in we welcome your feedback thank you to our broadcast engineer the lovely Robert McLean our technical producer Ian Davidson our floor manager Eric Calander and to Jay Fidel our executive producer who puts it all together I'll see you here in a couple of weeks where we're going to have another interesting show on out and about aloha everyone