 This is the OGM check and call on Thursday, December 23rd, 2021. We are right upon Christmas. Hanukkah's behind us. New Year's is still ahead. And 2021 has been, oh, I don't know. Stressful, weird, exciting, different. Anybody want to, it's been a year of flux, Eric. Well, but someone should write a book about that. Anyone want to put words or sentences up for your feelings about 2021 positive or negative? 2021. Yeah, I think it's been a quickening. All of the, all of the, all of the stuff that's going on. All of the challenges, all of the, you know, the pandemic, climate, political terrorism, all of these things are really starting to quicken in some way. And they're demanding more attention than ever before. At least that's what I find is true for me. I love that. That that rings really, really well for me as well, Stuart. Thank you. I find that it's a constant reminder that, that we're living between worlds. The world that was not considered was normal for the last about 70 years is gone. Right. And, and we don't know what the fuck was coming. And so there's a sort of a theory called punctuated equilibrium. It says that complex systems run often in this sort of a normal mode where things are kind of relatively harmonious and then they go into punctuated equilibrium and they emerge a different system things, you know, different things happen. And sometimes those are natural biological events like an asteroid strike. And sometimes those are social events like, you know, the, the revolutions of 1948, or, you know, name your other period in human history where lots of change sort of happening lots of places around the world. And it feels, it feels like we're living through one of those right now, right. We're going to, you know, the historians 200 years from now are going to look back and point at this time and tell lots of stories about it. Let Lenin apparently said that there are long periods of time where nothing at all happens in the short periods of time where everything happens at once. Right. And it feels like that and it feels also like the, you know, Elizabeth's tourist image of the chrysalis where you cannot see the structure of caterpillar and you cannot see structure of butterfly. You know, undifferentiated goo with some, you know, with, with code in there that can guide where it emerges. We don't know what the code is. So I think you're saying that we're in the undifferentiated goo phase right now, which seems comforting. No, it's not. Well, we're, you know, I don't know where we are. And I don't know if we're early or late or anything. But yeah, we are any, any attempts to figure out what's happening and where we're going are pretty much doomed. So, I mean, Flores has been beating on this on us for a couple of years like me just give up trying to predict predicting the future is worthless and anticipating being able to move and navigate and dance with the stuff. And have some degree of equanimity in the face of the massive uncertainty seems like pretty important skills right now. And for me, the combination of dealing with the world and dealing with, you know, with chronic illness in the family has just immersed me in that practice of, you know, day at a time be present watch the trends or you know, pay attention to what's happening but not try to prematurely find anything specific. It's just like, you know, fools it fools there right now. I think that's an angel getting his wings right now. I agree very much with all you said Gil. There's a there's a thought in my brain that says that we are busy involuntarily we negotiating the social contract worldwide. And so for me the Arab Spring Occupy Podemos name your brand of recent turmoil including me to Black Lives Matter and so forth are like hey situation not right. We need to we need to fix it. And we don't really know what the fix is yet. One other thing I'll add thank you for that Jerry is someone very dear to me. It's what I talk with frequently. I asked her how she's doing, and I'm really struck that her her mood her emotional set in the world is very much dependent on the headlines that she went. And so she's just all over the map, you know days are bad not based on how she is but based on what the New York Times told her is going on right now. She's been sort of flying up and down. And that feels like a really stressful and dangerous way to live in these times and, you know, much more the, you know, if we can find a way to kind of be present and buff it a little bit and just kind of watch these things with fascination and choose where to be that there's, you know, there's I don't want to go I don't want to go longer but just to remind people that that wonderful old story which depending on who you talk to is, you know, is Indian or Sufi or Japanese or acidic or whatever about the, the, the, the peasant and his horse. And some of you know that story and feels very appropriate for these times. Is this terrible is this great we'll see. We don't know. Thanks Stuart, go ahead. Sorry, I class this class then Stuart wanted to jump in earlier I think to go ahead class. Yeah, I was watching National Geographic yesterday and will you know the black actor was had had an episode on hurt behavior. He makes for some amazing examples how bees and and hurt animals and fish and so on. Move around in total unison. And it did a pretty good study on on how that really works and that of course brought me to, you know, how do we instill hurt behavior, meaning, meaning collective action in our own, you know, the animal world here. And it just hit me we're like totally messed up right I mean we have so many conflicting signals, hitting, hitting. Everyone there's, there's just no coordination, really possible and a lot of that has to do in the Queen's fear, you know where and I think there's a little made a good point of it, where it's all about you know collaboration and so on. So then I had a meeting yesterday I'm working on a national campaign for the Sierra Club focus on the farm bill so we set up a communications team. And there are now five young ladies, no MBA students or just graduated and so on. And my feeling was these are bambis, you know looking for like some fire brand right. And, and no it's it's all about now finding synergy and you know the whole, the whole hour was spent on how could we possibly work together and align our energies here. We're doing a whole campaign in the process. It's just so so the, the, the frustration where you're on the one hand you have like, like minded people who sort of want to do the right thing and figure out what to do, but they're completely prepared to really engage with the kind of energy and and determination that you need in order to really make a difference. So I mean coming from the corporate world where this kind of unison or collective action is simply enforced right and moving full speed into the wrong direction but we're certainly going to get there fast and efficiently right. So that that just hit me like we got an issue here that we somehow need to find out what to what to do with that. I'm Stuart and then I want to do a little brain sharing. Can I just stop for a moment. Like, I'm sorry but what calls just said came off as so incredibly sexist, and I know it wasn't meant that way. But like, I can't step over that. Grace, could you say more about that. I was sitting here and there were these five young ladies and they were like five bambis and what I was looking for was a firebrand or a powerhouse and remember exactly what he said. And there was this implication that these young girls couldn't bring the energy. And I'm sure that's not what you meant but I couldn't step over it because it just, those are the words that came out of your mouth. These young ladies would be perfectly capable and able to do what we think we all want to do, but the mindset they are embedded within makes that really difficult because like in college today, they're being trained to think in circles to think in building up decision making as a co-op and so on, which is all good. I mean I'm totally in favor of all that. But then at some point in time comes an exit to this and you need to make this actionable. I'm not saying that off-ramp, right, to where okay we're now moving. And it's really hard to find how to do this, because you don't want to alienate them, right, because you have no legitimate authority in the first place. So you have to bring them along through ideation and bringing the right ideas in. Now, when you operate in the red and blue zones, there's no issue with that because no one questions the leader, right, it just flows. So that's sort of what I was going with it. Okay, thank you for the clarification. I was sure that wasn't what you meant, but it just came out that way. Thank you. And Grace, thanks for jumping in with that. And I'll just reflect on my own reactions. Clauses, you were telling that I was a little bit distracted, but also I kind of took it as a gender neutral case where it could have been happened to be five young women and it could have been a mix of genders, it didn't matter. I think you did say girls and my first love many years ago convinced me early on that anyone who can potentially bring a human into earth is no longer a girl is a young woman. And I don't use girl unless women care to refer to each other as girl. For me it's like anybody old enough to bear a child and bring a human on earth is a young woman and so forth. And I just kind of skipped over that piece of how you use the language but thank you 72 year old guy here and trying to struggle along in a modern world, as we as we are actually took it, I actually took it as more I was wondering how much how much of it had to do with the fact that they were young. A piece of this I thought was a story of an experience and then a piece of it was how they were being raised trained what they were absorbing as as how change happens. And you know, and I think we're sort of all amateur students have changed trying to provoke more change, right. So yeah, that's interesting so everything shows up in the stories. I'm going to do just a moment of screen sharing, because a couple things. First, I'm taking notes for this call so I found her behavior which is under herds and manias. And the wisdom or madness of crowds by Nikki case which Eric put in the chat and things like that so we can find those later. But here is, we are involuntarily renegotiating the social contract around the world. And it points up to the Arab spring never again, the gilet jaune in France, the Tiananmen protests and crackdown, Trump ism. All those kinds of things and then and then there was a note that I didn't really know that probably the most largest and most violent systemic crisis occurred between 1854 and 1871, which was after the the revolutions of 1948, which didn't really catch. So there were all kinds of uprisings in 1948 they were mostly I think successfully put down. And I think what that winds up happening is is sort of this the typing rebellion the US Civil War the major restoration, the Indian rebellion the seapoint mutiny. And all that kind of site stuff the Gründer site in Germany. All of these things happen in this other window that I wasn't really aware of. And so and so it feels a little bit like we're in this kind of setting. And I've got another another thought in my brain. I'm a spellerite lessons of history, which basically says that we often pick the wrong examples from history we often pick the nearest example that feels close, but there's often a better example somewhere else and I'm again only an amateur historian. But but back to this notion of punctuated equilibrium, which is right here which I didn't add to the today's call, but now I have. I'm going to connect that to we are involved in voluntarily green gushing the social contract again. And then, and then one last thing just while I've got a little bit of brain floor. Every year, I have the year up here on the pinboard so anything I put I drag up here to the top stays there until I remove it. And then on the bottom, the thoughts are basically just scrolling off the left as I'm clicking on them so you'll see a history of what a breadcrumb trail of what I was just clicking on down here. So 2021 as events happened during the year, I add them to the year so that at the end of the year where we are now, I can look back and see that basis and brands and race one another to travel into space was a thing. Bill and Linda Gates divorce Apple says it will scan for child abuse and photos a major privacy problem. There are shootings there's the droughts there are fires. There are, you know the boulder shooting the cookie apocalypse I don't remember that so much. But being robo fired became a thing movies that show up and this is just the first half here's the second half, because there's a scroll bar down here. Here's the second half looks like a little bit of brain mousing problem and going on there we go. So here's the second half of this group, Navalny returns to Moscow and is detained on arrival, protests explode across Russia after Navalny's return. All this happened this year, all this happened this year. And then, of course, don't forget Trump followers storm and occupies a capital to start the Boogaloo. Although the Boogaloo doesn't catch on fire, but I think we're lucky for that, but this is just that one event in 2021. I'll come back to us now but I just wanted to refresh in our heads a little bit all the stuff that went down this year. And sort of to this notion, Stuart that there's a quickening that that that things are happening. If I look back several years you'll find that every year is crowded with stuff like this and you don't remember how much happened in the year. Except it feels like a quickening it feels like like a lot of the stuff is hotter, the fires are burning brighter, the climate emergencies are you know the climate extremes are being hit. It's all, it's all difficult. Sorry to kill off conversation like that, but anyone have any reflections just on 2021 and then we'll go into a round of chickens. Yeah, just quick just quickly. It's quickening because I think we're where the world is so much smaller seems so much smaller at this point in time because of the connectivity, and because many of the phenomenon that we're talking about have planetary consequences or at least that's the way it's what's critical I think is, is to realize in terms of personal ecology, if you're feeling, you know pulled and twisted in both ways it's because we're both in a bardo and a burning channel at the same at the, at the same exact time. And so two of the two of the things that that have been kind of sustaining me in some ways, or this notion of the Buddhist notion of totally not being attached to outcome. I'm more engaged and more active and busier, but I'm not attached to, to any particular kind of end result it doesn't mean that I'm less in my engagement and the other piece and this is this is the title of Meg Wheatley's book. And I know many people think she's gone over the edge but she really hasn't. The title of the book is, who do you choose to be. And I think that's a wonderful phrase to ask yourself every morning. When you wake up and and enter your day, who are you going to be today, and how are you going to in some ways make a contribution to the world. You know, workshop that Meg did a couple of weeks ago on this theme, and I don't know about who's saying she's going over the deep end but what it says that she's doing is focusing on being of service to activists and change agents who are engaging this quick and I don't know if it's effective as Stuart you summarized and felt pretty rich to me. Yeah, I've been, I've been working with Meg for the last almost seven years and the Warriors for the human spirit program and it's provided a wonderful ground. That's interesting. And also, I, the agencies of house move today and the need to go pick up a you hall I need to drop off the call at 845 Pacific this morning so I'm hoping that Ken or Gil or somebody would pick up and host and continue. Doug if you'd like to. Yeah, if you just want to jump in the conversation. Well I want to jump into the conversation. What I noticed about this last year is where I feel like I am is more in a kind of floating internet space that pervades everything whether it's the banks, whether it's money, whether it's whatever. Whereas I used to live in a combination of city and nature. And being in that place is gone. The, the environment feels all pervasive you can't escape it. It's looking kind of goo. And it just affects everything. And I'm trying to be kind of poetic here but I'm not quite making it. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, it's a, the internet's reach, the long reach of the internet is now everywhere. And it's not impossible to step away, but you have to practice stepping away, you have to make it a, you have to make it a conscious practice. Well it's not just the internet it's, it's a, it's finance reaches everything market, the crazy thing we call free market is feels much more pervasive than it used to used to be that you could step out of it. And that I think is the playing out of the current narrative, because neoliberal consumer focused mass market capitalism will touch and eat everything, it will make a market for everything it possibly can and we've been allowing it to. And so part of the renegotiation of the social contract I think is an objection to that in many places, you know and you saw it in Bolivia when water all water got privatized and that turned into huge protest but that was already more than a decade ago. So, so, so I'm hoping that the trend you just described Doug isn't the inevitable future and that we're just going to get worse in there. I'm hoping that there's some resets available in our future where we figure out a better balance. Instead, kill go ahead. It's the inevitable future but it's the looming future for sure and it's not just Doug what you're talking about it's also the urbanization. You know on a planet where more than 50% of us are urban and that number is going up the contact with nature, as we traditionally think of it become scared and scarce so yeah we're immersed in that world. Connect with the living world seems to be fundamental to me I've been talking less about us and corporations and policy and so forth being kinder to nature or balancing nature, managing nature better etc. And thinking about what does it mean to belong to nature. What would we do how do we do business if we belong to nature and the possibility of that experience is becoming further and further away, given the trends that you're talking about. I mean closer and closer and we just don't realize it's happening in the crash. Well it's happening in the crash and you know here we are, you know the prosperity of the last 100 years is built on a decimation of living systems. You know, accelerated deforestation decline of ocean health decline of soils you know it's it's it's this house of cards and so it's there. It will bite us but we're living as if not to Doug's point we're living more and more as if not as if we're in something separate from that. When we were still last time I checked you know biological critters and Klaus put in the chat a video I have not seen yet about collapse the only realistic scenario just like whoa. Yeah, well this is actually a really good statistical description of where we're heading and the point is there was a conversation I had with Sunil. And I played out on LinkedIn. The point this guy is making basically we have past tipping points. You know the Arctic ice has shrunk to the point where it no longer supports the jet stream. You can't put that ice back on the it's it's gone right so the the reason why we have these weather systems floating around wild and clashing is because the jet stream no longer regulates the these weather these climate systems moving north to south and south to north is like a rubber band that was laying across the north American continent. So yet that ice is gone so the argument this guy is making is our choice right now is to have a steep down curve, you know, or to have a feathered curve. So the only thing we can still do is through intervention, pushing the worst impacts of what is going to happen here, it's going to happen it's inevitable at this point. Now so I mean this is why focus on agriculture is so important focus on the food supply now focus on environment restoration of ecosystems and so on that's where the action really has to be. Now and so yeah I mean it's really concerning but that can give a saying here, because that's also my experience we're living in this sort of world I was sitting in a coffee shop with my wife yesterday and you look at everything is like normal around you right, and you know deep down it's not. So, and that's also what disturbed me so in this meeting even the Sierra Club right where we are talking about environment and nature and all this stuff, even there that sense of urgency that we should be feeling at this point simply isn't there. So, so how do you get to that point, when you're moving against a media, which is which is not. I mean, 90% of us media is owned and controlled by nine corporate entities. And by sort by six corporate entity six corporations or 90% of the US media, and they have, they haven't decided yet that we need to shift course, they don't want to shift course I see it in the in the food business in the agricultural business. So, and so the longer we drift, you know, on this course that steeper this curve gets and this is really a good video to watch in very simple terms to explain that. And societies are really, really hard to turn extremely hard to turn and mostly mostly they turn when forced to, and that's either through being overtaken by a different society or destroying themselves. And I'd love us to ponder a little bit about society societies that have successfully navigated very difficult change over time, because I think there aren't that many that have survived as roughly the same society except in very different circumstances. And you'd say that Aboriginal Australians have preserved the culture for possibly as long as 60,000 years, probably 35,000. And that's it that's an extremely, extremely long time when you think of generations that's that's that's durability. Right. And there are there are multiple hundreds of cultures and languages among them. There are extremely common ways of sort of seeing and doing. It's, it's super interesting and there's a whole bunch more there about how they had, you know, before the Europeans show up they'd figured out a whole bunch of good stuff. Which the Europeans only saw as savage primitive and useless, which is, hey, par for the course for Europe. So why don't we, we've we've almost gone through a half hour why don't we do a little bit of check in just in since this is one of our check in calls not our topic calls and I kind of spun us up on 2021. And it's not the last call of the year, I think next week's will be. So, why don't we go. Grace Doug Kim, if you're still listening grace, or if you can seize the mute button. So let's wait until Grace is back. Yeah, I'm, I would rather go later because I'm still not quite in the place where I can sit down. That sounds great. No worries. Let's go Doug can class. What's on my mind is I finished the draft of this book called Garden World Politics, which has the view that to try to change to a better society from a fairly reasonable one fairly reasonable. Doesn't work very well things have to collapse in order to reconfigure. So even if we had a modernist future scenario, we can't get there without some breakdown first. Now whether we can come out of the breakdown as a real question. I think with what class is doing, I think it's really important with agriculture and my view is that we need to mix habitat in with agriculture for sustainable short term future after the collapse begins. Anyway, my plea is I'm looking for an agent for the book so if anybody has any idea of an agent who might be willing to pick it up, I'd be delighted. So thank you anybody with ideas for agents. Please contact Doug. And I'll pick up on a piece of what you said which is that I think Steve Bannon for example is trying to force that breakdown. And there's a whole bunch of people who were like, oh okay, if systems only change when they're under such stress that they crack and break. Let's go crack and break this one faster. There's a reasonable reasoned argument to make that that's a strategy and that there's a whole bunch of people who've adopted that strategy right now, and who will be extremely hard to convince to pull back and try to mitigate adapt adopt change to other kinds of things. And I'll throw a second thing in which is Jim bandel is one of several people who who said hey shit is so broken that we're going to have to do deep adaptation forget forget small adaptive behaviors, we need to figure out how to actually survive when this thing is really broken. So there's there's lots of kind of approaches to that. Let's go. Ken Klaus. Hi everybody. Sitting here on a very rainy morning in center fell our reservoirs are up to 78% and just a month ago they were there at 31%. So we've had a really major reversal here and breathing a lot easier, very grateful for the for the rain. And so that's that's news number one. Well, I came in feeling really good and listen to this is like, just very reminder of how bad things are, you know, I'm sorry. No, no, no, it's not a problem. It's, it's, I have a meme of a metronome. Right. And on one side metronome was like, everything is great. And there is like, we're so fucked. And that's why I feel like I live my days between everything is great. We're so fucked. And, and trying to find the middle ground of being in that bardo and finding a way to maintain some sense of equity in the midst of all this. I was talking to Doug a while ago and, you know, I said, how you doing says no, I find myself giggling sometimes my life is actually pretty good despite all the challenge that's going on and, and I find myself in the same position at the moment. You know, I just completed this this six month inclusion process I just got booked for some work in New York City which makes me a little bit of trepidation of flying. It's a very well paid gig and it's from the company that's sent me the second gig now this year which is unusual because it's actually once a year and it seems like they're heating up so lots of good stuff happening in my life that I'm pleased about and trying to use that as much as as possible to keep me sane when I confront what's going on in the world. And I want to ask class a question. In that special on her behavior. Did they talk about eyes, because it seems to me that animals that exhibit her behavior have eyes on the size of their stereoscopic vision and I'm wondering how that changes the perception of knowing you're you see everybody around you and we don't we just see what's in front of us unless we turn and look I think there's something about peripheral vision and and her behavior did they mentioned anything like that. Yeah, the, the, the conclusion was that if if just one or two or three members of the herd, whether that's fish or birds or a herd of animals, then nothing happens but the moment that you have a mass movement the moments that basically what they were saying everybody walks away from each other not too close and not too far, but they're just in the right distance. And if your neighbor moves you move. And so there's this this instinct your neighbor moves left you move left. And so there is astonishing split second reaction, you know, in the way that the swarms behave. I wouldn't say anything about eyes because then also you have let's say bullets or predators were working in packs, and they are totally coordinated and they of course have this so I'm not sure that it has anything to do with vision. So, so two things on that one, the closest I've ever come to experiencing her behavior is driving a car and Buenos Aires. And if anybody who's driven in Rome or BA knows, and like the lines on the pavement mean pretty much nothing. You're wandering around it's like a ballet. But if you turn a little too sharply, you'll get honked at and everybody around you's like what the hell. And so there's there's a known behavior where it's perfectly legitimate to just wander across and you know cut through lanes, people squeeze cars when this when this stoplight. Most people stop, but then you just perfectly legit to squeeze your hood of your car between the other two cars no big deal nobody nobody will get cranky at you until you behave out of the norm of the herd of the crowd of the group of the flock of cars that's moving down the street. And it's really kind of beautiful once you're sort of integrated, you do have to keep your eye on all the mirrors and know what the hell is going on around you. You have to be very vigilant. And the second thing I'll say is, I did a like a, the zebra where I have a desk invited me along to a little bit of leadership training with a woman who uses horses to teach people about leadership and so forth. And horses are exclusively sensitive. They're insanely sensitive. They are also apparently our mantra matriarchal in their organization. So the horse herd is paying attention to breath to a whole bunch of other cues besides the visual field. And so, if the if the if the lead horse changes her breathing and looks up, everybody will stop and look up. Like, like, like, there's there's a whole bunch of other cues going on elephants communicate through subtle vibrations in the earth sometimes I think there's there's multi sensory fusion happening that allows these herds to feel where they are and where and how they are together. And then that that that just right spacing is like, what happens when you're part of that particular kind of herd with those dynamics right and then just right spacing for a herd of minute for a school of minnows is different from a flock of starlings, or a murder of crows, or, you know, a herd of elephants, but but but all these things are kind of exclusively tuned over time. And we are busy being divided up into little rectangles in zoom and missing our in person here, and like like a whole bunch of stuff is busy up in the air. And are we supposed to be like in 3d avatars in the metaverse. And I think I think so much of this for humans is just under like involuntary renegotiation. It's like, wait, wait, I'd like to, like Doug said earlier, I'd love to be in nature and figure things out. You know, I used to live kind of in nature and happened to be online but there we go. The bandwidth of this thing is infinitesimal compared to what community what passes between people in real life and physical presence with these little squares me you know we have pheromones. We have sounds we have body movement. Anybody ever have a sensation of feeling that somebody was looking at me turn around and there they are there's time to there's, there's other senses that we have, besides this. And we, we forget we lose them. We lose them in cities we lose them here but they're there. And that's some of what the, you know, you talked about the 60,000 year original cultures that some of us operative in that universe. And I'll get a happy body suit we are coded for what the coder is thinks about putting in there, and not what he or she doesn't think about. Right. Let's go class Stuart Stacy Eric. Yeah, I mean picking up on her behavior of course we are totally wired to act as a herd. And it's, it's unfortunately really well framed in the red and blue zones of the of the spiral dynamic field. Because there, you know, you suspend disbelief. It's just no, no critical challenge, you know, to what the leader is saying. But we, we haven't figured out how to establish this in the green zone. And so, but that's where we need to move through to get to deal. And that's where the challenge is so my, my thinking is we need to merge orange and, and yellow, I mean orange and green to get to teal. You need to have the practicality with the techno focus and all of this off orange, blended in with a green mindset, hopefully to get there. But to what what that was saying. I mean, when you look at the history of civilizations that collapsed. Some recovered some didn't read the woman, the woman empire just transition from from a emperor to a tourist theocracy and persisted in other 1000 years. I mean, when you look at the influence of the Roman Catholic Church, you know, until the 19th century really, it's just astounding. And then a lot of interest didn't come back and my argument right now here is we're not going to come back because a collapse would destroy the industrial capacity that we need the infrastructure that we need to move forward, you know, to recover. We can't afford to break anything because we need everything to make it through now. And so the only way to really do this is to move from the bottom up, provide people with access to food and shelter basic stuff, let them take care of themselves, you know, empower people to to help themselves and to to secure their own instant in this surrounding. And so that's hopefully something and there is a big regenerative movement, you know that is focused in my mind too much on the technical aspect of shifting, you know, in the regenerative practices, but not shifting them with the social minds. The hive into why this is important and why we need to do this. That's the 2022 challenge. The learnings of 2021. Thanks class. Let's go Stuart Stacy, Eric, and then grace. Yes, interesting. I was feeling pretty good about about my life. Before this call and all of a sudden not realizing the incredible level of complexity that we're in, you know, when class just talked about, you know, destruction of the industrial base I started to think about how people are all concentrated in cities and this notion of, you know, the back to the land movement the incredible discontinuity that that was going to provide, you know, when you impose climate on that boy you wanted to you wanted a human experience. What a time to be on the planet. What a time to be on the planet to be to be having an embodied experience of some kind. So by way of check in I will publish a huge book of poetry that's been a 20 year project this year. Every year I think it's done after editing one poem a day, but this is it it's, it's, you know, it's time to deliver this thing, you know, and be done with it at the end of September or if not, if not sooner. I decided to just start, you know, people talked about a little bit earlier in the call about how the capitalist mentality in some ways, you know, can have a negative impact on so many different things. So that being said I've got some e learning courses on collaboration and conflict resolution that I'm going to start to give away to certain communities I haven't figured out the exact structure that. And I think that the tools there will allow people to communicate with each other and collaborate with each other kind of effectively. You know the great news is that this personal relationship that I started in in August of the pandemic August 19 August of 2020 continues it's like, you know, 16 months and it's kind of like, Oh my God, what a what an amazing opportunity during the during the pandemic. So, you know, one day at a time one step one foot in front of another you know gilly mentioned earlier about dealing with you know taking care of personal illness I mean I was a caregiver for a number of years with my with my late wife, and it was one of the reasons of being human. I so appreciate this call, because about six months ago I decided I only wanted to be in conversations like this and this is one of the conversations that I just jumped into so I appreciate all of you in the, the expansiveness of your thinking and views, and awareness and knowledge so thank you all. Thank you very much. I love that. I'm going to have to bounce off the call in a minute or two here. I'll pass the convict can for the rest of the call. And we have Stacy Eric grace and I will slip off probably in a minute or two, but please go ahead. Today share your sentiments about only wanting to be inserting kinds of conversations, and Jerry you started off asking what 2020 was like for each one of us. So for me 2021 was about really learning how to stay in the eye of the storm, and I feel pretty stable there but when you said something about systems, having to like explode something before they rebuild and it just. It made me gas because I think of every human being as a system. And I'm looking at so many really traumatized people. I do believe that this is a period where things are coming up for them, and they're breaking and I am hopeful that we can reconfigure in better ways and I just for my part. I think about any tragedy that I've ever experienced. The most important thing was who was around me. And I think that if you know I can be the best me and walk through and emanate that to other people, and they can do the same. I think that's, you know that's something that keeps me hopeful. I'm complete. Jerry jumped off I was just gonna say goodbye. I don't know if anybody knows but Jerry and April just spotted a new condo so he saw it on Facebook he's moving today. Thank you Stacy. Let's see we had next up is Eric and then grace. So, yeah, I had a pretty good week. Mark Caronza sent out the invitation to his San Francisco mimics meeting and I enjoyed that seeing how people think and what's going on there. So I was able to connect with Mark Antoine and we shared ideas together. So we'll see what kind of synergy comes out of that. And I sent Jerry a video by Jerome Lanier, who's an early VR guy who did a talk at the 2014 inter twingled festival, which celebrated the life of Ted Nelson. He said some really interesting points that really frame the problem. I'm not sure exactly what problem, but at this point I'd have to rewatch it. But I've been playing around with the little kinesthetic learning like taking paper and creating the platonic solids. Here's some octahedron. Here's a dodecahedron and the 20 sided Dungeons and Dragons dice, the isosahedron. And you can tell a whole story from those five things like why only five and then how did it start with Pythagoras and so what I'm doing is I'm waiting for in my mind an episode to come together. I recorded my own YouTube show called the DZ Easy Show, which is the distributed zigzag ZZ structure. Yeah, Bucky Fuller too. So I'm going to paste the playlist so Jerry could put it in his brain and there's one episode out there now and I'm thinking about the second one. So yeah, we'll see where this goes. I mean, while the world is doing its thing, I have my little cocoon here to grow and see where I emerge. I'm curious, Eric, what brought about the interest in doing the platonic solids? Well, they appeared in several places in my life, just references to them. And one interesting one is Descartes and Leibniz. So Descartes had a secret notebook that he figured out a property of the platonic solids and he was so afraid to share it at the time. And then Leibniz, that notebook has a history like it was in a shipwreck, but somehow Leibniz got access to it and found that theory that Descartes came up with, which he could have started topology if it had gone in and out and found. Fascinating, thank you. Yeah, sure. Okay. John Kelly. Sorry, Grace and then John. So yeah, the reason that my time is all messed up is because the car that I shared with my neighbors broke down and now I'm in the process of trying to find another car, but I do not have mastery of the bus schedule and I had to convince the pizza guy to give me a ride and anyway, my whole day went off. But, and that happens every day now. And things have been going really well on a number of my projects and one of them is a little bit stuck. So, I'm going to be putting out a how to dial book this year I've got a few chapters written I've got a schedule and I have a committed an accountability buddy who makes me write a chapter a week so that's going great. Yeah, they are a nice piece of guys. And the, and the. So that's moving forward. And I just put out a Dow initial initial conditions templates that people can download from my website and really think about why am I doing it down what do I want my doubt to do and so that's kind of that's good. And then I enough interest came up again that I'm going to be running my future ain't what it used to be workshop, which any of you're certainly welcome to do it's basically a six week workshop. We talk about money and value and democracy and different stuff that's coming up and how to rethink the future so. The, the Dow workshop is, I mean, it's called the future and want to be so it's about money and and dows and decentralization, but really it's reverse classroom. So I give assignments for people to read. Yeah, so my website dow leadership.com all those things are dow leadership.com. And I'm, and I'll put it in the chat after I speak. And so the future course is reverse classroom so it's basically a bunch of cool people coming together for two hours every week for six weeks, talking about these topics with some guidance from the specific materials and particular art, but yeah, it's awesome and I, every time I run it I say this is the last time and then like a year passes and a lot of people are interested and I do it again. And the first assignment is is that you have to deal with the fact that it's pay what you think it's worth at any time beginning the end the middle never. And so part of the assignment is really also exploring your own attitudes around money and what does that even mean like what is it worth. It's fun. And love to have some of you guys around for that. The other project I've been working on is this game with the eco villages around a reputation economy and non monetary reputational economy, thank you class. And that's a little bit stuck in getting responses from the people I want to participate in the eco villages we had a very very successful design sprint and came up with some really interesting stuff and the IT manager of the eco village network is involved in that. And I really want to make a trip to some of these villages and cooperatives, but that's a little bit stuck in terms of actually getting people to say yeah I'm ready to have a visitor or whatever so hopefully I'll be moving that forward after the holidays. And that's super exciting like I was really really pleased with the outcome from our design sprint and how well that went and how it really seemed like there's a tremendous amount of potential for a reputation based economy. Yeah, I mean that's like a lot of stuff is going on going on well. And I just wanted to say on this thing about coordination like the human coordination and like why aren't we like fish. And this is kind of a weird story I guess like it feels out of context because like four people have spoken since we talked about that particular topic but there's this topic about this really funny Stacy was talking about something having to like explode and break down until something new happens and I'm like well I did that I exploded and some people came out and you know like all that. And so, and you know that gave me a new life and them a new life. So, that's interesting like that's an interesting frame to put it in right like it's not necessarily a bad breakdown. And also on that topic. I mean I think women are very coordinated and I know that when the vaccines came out a lot of women, skip their periods. And then so did I and so did some other people who I knew and it was like all this big one big coordinated efforts, and even women who hadn't gotten vaccinated told me that they felt the same disturbance. And so there is this kind of coordination, and those of us who don't use chemical birth control, tend to coordinate with the moon. So those things are actually happening but it's a little bit like oh we don't talk about that. So, in some ways, I have a very strong sense of that on a general basis but it looks really different. Maybe then the way you're imagining it like are we looking at each other and one of you guys referred to that like smelling and breathing and all these different things so that was really interesting that kind of touched me in that way. So that's complete. Thanks Grace. Interesting stuff you know you make me think. I think a lot of what we're, we take for granted around systems need to break down comes from male domination the systems and maybe if there were more women in the systems we wouldn't need to have quite as violent a breakdown maybe there'd be an easier transition just kind of floating that out there. I don't argue with that at all. As the element says the future is female, you know, so. Okay, let's go to john and then Mila and Gil you have not gone yet have you. Okay. Hey, I'm not going to try to do a whole year thing. You know, I'm, I have what many people have talked about where you look around you and you see disaster, but you personally are doing okay. And that's an interesting thing to integrate and, and, you know, check in with your empathy, all that kind of stuff. I have one little minor incident that relates to a sub issue actually I don't think I had to go away for a second so I don't think this issue has come up in quite a while. It's an implicit issue in, in Grace's work with Dow, because the issue is, Well, let me tell you the story. First of all, I am an appreciator and user of Clubhouse. We're doing, we move serious conversations to Clubhouse. It worked, you know, it's kind of working and it's kind of working better than we thought it would on Clubhouse. But the stuff I really, I mean I like serious con on clubhouse I really like the tech news around the world, which comes on in the morning. There's some brilliant people, you know, Australian psychologist, who, who, you know, talks about narcissism and, you know, finding how prevalent it is and how to work with it and I mean it's a lot of really good stuff. But there's a whole conversation going on that says Clubhouse is dying. And here's what's that's about. I guess, sometime in the past, Twitter offered the Clubhouse folks $4 billion to just buy Clubhouse and run it as a Twitter thing. And they said no, and they went and got $4 billion of funding, you know, start a funding. And the, the common understanding is now the price would have to be much, much, much lower. Why, well, different theories about this but I mean what happened you know the pandemic dipped and, you know, new users dipped, but one of the things that's clear that happened is you open the door you open it it's not iPhones only it's it's any, any phone and it's anybody you don't need a special invitation. And what happened is the dominant rooms in the hallway, you know, we're all about hey get more followers hey get more money hey get into Bitcoin hey you know you understand crypto and you know, and it basically junk it basically turned into what we used to see late night on HFTV I mean it just sort of came in and took over now that some of the good stuff is still there. Tech news is is hedging there they're running on on Twitter spaces and Clubhouse simultaneously so they can slide over if they decide Clubhouse isn't isn't quite doing what it needs to do. The underlying issue for us and the underlying issue that relates to all efforts to cooperate is the role of either natural or engineered scarcity. And, you know, putting putting a barrier up and saying, Well, you know, not everybody can do this. And that triggers a lot of stuff, you know, because it was certainly abused in the past, it was certainly something that maintained historic hierarchies that did had no justifiable basis for being a hierarchy in other than the fact that they got there first and they locked up the resources, you know, so the reaction against old hierarchies perpetuating themselves. You know, is this is a natural kind of, there's a natural kind of rebellion against that, and to open things up. But Clubhouse is an interesting case study of, if you open it up, and, and it's too easy to, to come in and have a platform. And then, you know, it's, it's I think it was called Gresham's law and economics you know that the cheap currency drives out the, the valuable currency, and that seems to have happened, or be happening. They could recover, they could come back. I hope I kind of hope they do. But the bigger question for us, as part of the whole conversation about cooperation is part of the whole conversation about new forms of organization and part of the conversation about is, how do you do this, how do you have a less, you know, how do you have a positive hierarchy, or you know, make make your peace with hierarchy figure out how that's going to work, figure out how it gets defined and and how to implement it, you know, that's the challenge. And, you know, this is, it's, this is a good group to be thinking about it. And, and Grace has obviously been thinking about a lot more. And I want to take that course to see how that works. But that's enough that's a subject I'm going to be working on going forward. Thank you. Thanks, John. Julie and welcome. We'll get to you in a minute. Thank you, Mila and then Gil. I haven't been on these meetings for a while because I can only actually attend once a year when it's downtime because the time slot gets really heavy with schedules and meetings. So what's the question Ken is it just. It's just a check in whatever you'd like to share with us and it's lovely to see or it's been a while and nice to see your face again. Yeah, so probably following on what Grace is working on. And Grace, I know some of the Jen people in the Jen International so we're actually talking about crypto currency and what kind of tokens with Jen be working with. So if you'd like to, we're having regular meetings to talk about that. There's a lot of crypto currency platforms, like seeds and other cryptocurrency. So, not that I'm heavy into it, it's just being pulled into ecosystem collaboration. So what I've been doing for the last year is really a lot of collaborations that is moving away from self interest and, you know, projects and individual institutions but actually coming together. It's not just partnerships, but really like cellular collaboration like an ecosystem must mislead human mislead collaboration. So that each one depends on each other to actually produce benefits to the ecosystem that we sit in and belong to, as well as the ecosystem that we serve together. If we were the heart, the heart doesn't need to be the liver or the kidney. But the heart needs to function with the liver and the kidney and all the other organs to serve a good purpose, which is making the body healthy because then all the organs would die. So how do we then show that experiment in real terms and decentralized distributed infrastructures are part of that. And so I've been working with institutions, not just talking about it actually manifesting collaborations, various different institutions as well as grassroots communities, bio regional communities in Latin America in South America, South Africa. Coming together and coming together to practice with complex systems and how to work together as a community and working with all these different frameworks and experimenting as an ecosystem. And also then there's the whole funding. We're talking to impact investors is looking venture capital is looking at different ways of funding and really looking at funding on ecosystem, rather than particular projects particular initiatives particular institutions. So moving away from this, you know, silo kind of mentality but coming together really more like a line to life and nature which is fundamentally my life purpose and how do we experiment doing that more and more. So it's manifesting before my eyes at the moment, and there seems to be a real consciousness of moving towards this distributed infrastructure, and the scale is not the scale in volume. The scale is in complexity. How do we, how do we harness the flexibility and adaptability of the nodes of the nodes of the cells of a mycelium. So to speak or networks of networks to then be able to be flexible and adaptable to the complexity that as we scale in a large scale framework to just evolve just like life. So very much aligning to how actually life evolves. And a lot of these people are actually experimenting. And luckily these the people institutions that we're working with are people that has been adapting and doing this for 2034 years. So these are real application rather than just you. And noble prize winners evolution scientists. So it's bringing behavioral science, indigenous wisdom, and also regenerative practices on the ground. Real, real practitioners not just, you know, sitting there, looking at theory, permaculture, biochar all of that so just really interesting how the consciousness have shifted within this one year and I'm guessing there's a whole deal with the whole COVID and what's coming and there's a lot of talk of, we are coming ahead to something of another meltdown of finance and all of the science and the signals are showing that so it's coming at a time at an appropriate time. Thank you. You'll just put a question there how can we learn more about your work. So, I work very differently I've been offered by all of these institutions to have roles and I said I, I'm moving away from roles. If you can, we can co create together a role and a remuneration that speaks of ecosystem. Then, and then I'm not like in any website or anything I can share with you the websites that I'm working with. I'm more kind of like an air traffic controller that works with many many portfolios or projects and programs that are actually working together. And it's an experimentation and grace yes I would send you some information. I'm actually meeting with the gen people, the international networks, as well as the funders of Jen. That kind of grassroots all the way up to the board. So I work with the grassroots all the way to the board. So it's it's decision makers but at the same time the operational people on the ground. And all of these people are actually gifting their work. So there isn't, and they've been funded already so there isn't this necessity of scarcity thinking of who gets what. I think there's just this something is coming really really like manifesting beyond just an individual human level there's there's a whole kind of consciousness shifting that I'm seeing and it's not in the mainstream. The mainstream is just constantly talking about scarcity and fear and all that but there's the whole lot of abundance and a whole lot of movement in the space of the pioneering stages and they're just some amazing stuff that people are doing. I just wish that there was some kind of platform that we can all look at rather than just be pulled down by so much scarcity thinking and fear mongering. Because there are amazing people led by millennials actually that are doing this work from the cryptocurrency all the way to institutions, one of them is pro social. Have a look their Nobel Prize winner evolution scientists, behavioral scientists coming together they've been around since 2000. They've actually mitigated the Ebola came around 2014 and it's it's what I think some of you talked about collaboration. Based on observation, not based on a co created design, it was based on observing observing how people collaborated around the world, including indigenous peoples corporations, and they pulled together principles and ways of collaborating that has stood the test of for many many generations and I didn't even know about them. I just came into my purview in August. And they're gifting it to the world, local level grassroots level and doing community field research to basically arm grassroots to do their own collaboration. And translating into their own language and wisdom and culture so it's amazing. I'm just really, I just, I can't wait for early next year can and also working with you in the work so it's it's evolving as we speak. So it's not something that is just being talked about is actually manifesting and actually the collaborations are actually happening. If I kill you want to just ask directly. Sorry. What is what is what is Jen. Jen is, sorry, it's global eco village network that Grace talked about. I knew that I've been working with them I've been working with the founders of cryptocurrency platforms, mostly with the founders so the founders of human system dynamics. So it's a system from human perspective and social founders, as well as the region assist, which is, they've been around for 3040 years, doing story or place doing regenerative practices across the world. So these people are coming together with the cryptocurrency platform so it's quite interesting. All theories and new theories and indigenous people is coming together. Yeah. Robert Gilman involved in that. Robert. Not so far that I know, but there's so many constellations of these people coming together is it's really difficult to keep up with it, you know, and it's just people forming together consciously and really wanting and like with pro social they already have the funding trust and foundation so they're gifting it to people so it's not the scarcity of how many, how much money you need to, you know, how do you get job, etc. Sorry, Klaus, and I will respond later on the chat. Thank you. I think it's accepted as a you have the present from the body presence in Institute for this produce project. And they are about 60 indigenous tribes living within that larger region, which we definitely need to include into into our body of work. The challenge is, and they are, I've been exposed to some amazing organizations that are focusing on on change and American sustainability business movement and so on so the challenge really is to translate that into an operational frame. And, and so, so, you know, Donald Meddl's the hierarchy of the interventions. We are doing really good at the narrative level. Right. And we are even doing really good at bringing the narrative down to the next storyline. So deeper than into, into the society so to speak, you're not dealing with more administrative things that need to take place in order to operationalize these narratives that have formed already. But that's why I'm working in this space of translating into operation. And it's extremely difficult to, to, to, to make that work. And it's so so that's where I was now coming into the, how do you, how do you make the narrative the authority. So I think that's sort of how do you make the narrative the authority so that governs our structures, the distributed networks and so on still have to follow a common slash a common start, you know, a common direction. Yeah, so the formation of these collaboration. So the one in South Africa, they have 222 indigenous communities, and they're trying to, they have land over, I don't know how many hectares of land that they want to congregate and collaborate and the key thing is how do they actually collaborate at some level. So there's something called story of place so the story of places the bio expression, not only of the context of the historical but also the watershed the bio regional expression that people come to together and remembering the history of centuries of how that region was placed and how the culture was formed around that and story of place has been around for 3040 years. And if you look at region assist group they've been doing this across the world. And that's how you bring a whole multiple stakeholders coming together from a place of potential, not a place of problem solving. It is a story. It is a story of place that is co creative. So the people who comes, they're just, they work in the shadows, they arm the leaders the influencers of that community with the culture and the wisdom of that community so there's a lot of community engagement at the beginning. The whole focus of eco villages and region assist group is basically to focus on the culture and the social transformation first. There's a lot of inner work, as well as the you know, you lab also talks about the cultivation of the intervening highly depends on the cultivation of the cultivation of a change is highly depends on the cultivation of the intervening. So this is the same thing, but it's based on application for decades. It's, it's something that they've done, and they constantly evolve with with with what is manifesting in real time. So these people I've brought them together region assist group pro social does it beautifully to collaborate people, not only from a purpose and values, but also psychological flexibility based on behavioral science evolutionary science and behavioral economics, and how they do it as they they demonstrate the system to be visible unto itself, including what are the shadows that prevent them so Robert Keegan work, which is competing commitments. And it's, it's very much made visible as a structure and with the region assist group they take about four months just to do focus on the community engagement to come together to really come together with a story that brings them together and this is some of the indigenous wisdom, because when you look at indigenous wisdom, the whole culture and ethics and the fabric of their life is transferred through the storytelling. And it's not just storytelling humanity sometimes about animals but within that, there's such a story that inspires motivates, and it's it's about regenerative how can it constantly breathe new life in the collaboration in the motivation in keeping the motivation through the direction of travel. And so it's beyond just the head is is understanding living system within that place, and that consists of human is just one part of it. There is the whole system the history, the culture, the bio region, the geography, and understand that as a place to be proud to be part of how he involves over time, beyond the involvement of the people in the project. So how do you integrate it so you give self agency to that community to bring their own wisdom and their own culture and their own story. And that is some of the collaboration that's happening right now. And then arm them with complex system and you talked about class how do you do this, but you do it one experiment at a time as a group as a collaborator, and, and the people who are bringing the expertise. They're in the background. They're not the ones leading it. They're just training the people to then translate it in their own language and their own wisdom in their own culture, and they experiment, one bit of it. Then it informs the next experiment. So what we're creating is adaptive action labs regenerative action labs. So you're learning from the experimentation and it will be a constant experimentation of evolution, but it's not this 10 year plan. It's literally an experimentation of what that informs the next. We're doing it very differently. And it's similar to cryptocurrency and those is all about, you know, how do you experiment how does this look like, because one now, or one particular culture or one particular group maybe very different to another. So it's, it's being very focused on acting locally, collaborating regionally and institutionally, and then learning from a global platform. The focus is not to make those projects to be successful as an ecosystem is to learn for them to make tons of mistakes and tons of experimentation and have a global platform where that resides as an archive and an artifact and then it can be become a NFT it can be an artifact of a culture. There's a whole movement of different things happening and experimenting at the moment from the technology part and also going back to the roots of acting locally and empowering local nodes to be flexible and adaptable to be able to scale. So not from a volume perspective, but from a flexibility adaptability and complex to complexity as they evolve. Thank you. Yeah, I really, I really appreciate this. We may, we may end up calling on you to get us lunch there. Yeah, I mean, it's, and you know, I'm, I'm like, you know, coming from a corporate environment where you know you get, you get put in charge and you issue directives on here's what we're going to do. And so to translate, you know, the impulses that that I have to make stuff work right because I know exactly how this needs to move in order to work from an operational perspective, but to translate that so people who need to, who need to feel it right I mean they need to, to understand and understand it and on a really deep level why this is what we need to do. That's a huge challenge. I mean, for me to completely rethink the way I function and have in my life experiences. Hey, thank you. You'll over to you. Yeah, wow. Give me a minute to absorb. Okay. Sorry, I don't have a brain to share so you know just there's no in there's no, no, no stage pattern just go right to you. Mila that was extraordinarily rich. Thank you. I haven't heard from you before so I'm delighted to meet you. And I'm really grateful for the mood that you've evoked in me by what you shared so thank you for that. I know the Regenesis folks business partner with partners with one of them for many years and have watched their work and brought them in on projects. It's remarkable phenomena because it's, it's, I find it very hard to explain to civilians, it sounds kind of too weird and slow and expensive. But I've seen just stunning shifts that happen in a community in this work so I'm delighted to know about that. Thank you Holly so many things. John back to what you said about about natural barrier me the most significant natural barrier lately is time. And I was intrigued by clubhouse when it showed up and very quickly realized that I didn't want to spend most of my time listening to people talking. And I found the dynamics of it really unsatisfying compared to the dynamics of this which is also not, you know, not all of what we want. But that richness of interactivity. I mean, I think there, thought about building, building out a platform there not a hype the one that she talked about but a substantive one it just didn't seem worth the effort to do that to find productive community and interactions just to it I'm with you I'm I love these kind of conversations I mean I think four groups like this every week for every other week. It's a substantial investment of time. I can't point directly to what comes of it, but I feel profoundly nourished and shaped by these conversations. This one here. The, the power and wisdom work with Fernando florist I've mentioned a number of times. I've had various conversations with Chauncey bell. And the monthly living between worlds conversations that I've been posting for now almost two years. Trying to figure out what to do with that. This has been this last couple of years felt a lot like trading water. Part of that was just dealing with burnout, coming out of the Palo Alto gig. And I've also been dealing with, with, with James health issues as kind of a central focus for lives and some health issues I've been dealing with. And, and pandemic might, which a lot of us have talked about some very hard to find focus. And, and, and steady, most steady focus on a particular thing. Part of the mood of pandemic partly my kind of inveterate interest in lots of different things at the same time and I'm learning, trying to learn how to narrow that field down and the news report of the last month or so is, is, I feel like my mojo is back. I feel like my focus is back. I feel this, I say feel, I feel this in my body I feel like I'm showing up in my body in a different way every day. And what that looks like from the outside is. One of the things I've been thinking about doing is building a learning platform, building a kind of academy for the, for the transition and I'm finding there are so many people doing that in so many different ways that's not territory for me to go into I'll continue to host a monthly calls. There may be some gentle spin offs from that but that's not going to be a focus as in developing a line of business. What is, is a project that I've been attempting to say no thank you to and put down for about 10 years. For various reasons that I can't do this for reason X reason why and lately it's been because it just feels too big. But I, I finally surrendered to my friend Tim says don't fight the feeling. And so I, it looks like I'm now in the business of creating investment funds with a very particular focus to to leverage what I've learned about the words what we used to call sustainability and business which you don't know what we're calling it yet. I think it's something like how do we do business as if we belong to the living world, just to not euphemize about it anymore. And so I'm looking at building three funds one is to work with the the new world of startups of regenerative climate finance decentralized organization and so forth, which are accessible mostly to accredited investors and make those available to retail investors, so both help move money into supporting the new work and help more people participate in it financially rather than just let it be a way for people to get richer. So that's number one. And number two, the very different focus is not on the startup universe but on the, the existing universe of the middle market of the hundreds of thousands or millions of companies that do the regular stuff of every day. And the bakeries to machine shops to nail salons to builders to lumberyards to, you know, what was small manufacturers and so forth, who are mostly have not been in this game. We don't have our organizations or budgets, who are often in the supply chains of big companies being told they need to do something about climate, but don't know where and what to do. Hundreds of thousands of these companies in the middle market in the US are owned by aging founders, people who look like this tour near retirement and may not have families to deed the company to I have a I have a speculation that a lot of these companies are socially responsible in the very old sense of being kind of the anchor of a community and the source of most of the jobs in the community and source of most of philanthropy in the community, giving jobs to people who live there. And so place becomes very important in, you know, sort of a parallel way to what Mila has been talking about. So the notion is to invest in these firms, help them rapidly adapt to the realities of climate and the change in the world, which is by the way profitable, as well as purpose driving to bring in the kinds of management capabilities that we've been talking about in these calls for the last couple of years the transparency and participation and flatness and so forth. Build the capacity of the people who work there and then exit, not by IPO and not by selling to a private equity fund, but by transition to work around company owned by the people who live in the community rooted in and positioned for the future that we're living into. So I've never done this before. I've got, I've got a team of people who've done pieces of it. And so I'm off on an adventure to see what that looks like. And I've been moving very fast this last week. I will keep you posted as it becomes more substantive I very much want to. I've had a funny relationship with crypto over all these years. The blockchain made sense to me and the cryptocurrencies did not I'm wary of the Ponzi nature of a lot of what I how I interpret a lot of what's going on. The cows are talking to me and I need to get more immersed in that world understand how it works what role that could have the kind of game I'm trying to build. And the other element of this. There's been several conversations about scale through through through the morning. Scale happens in two ways the Silicon Valley talks about the scale of the hockey stick be a billion dollar company in no time at all of house for building dollars out of thin air. So there's that vertical scale of the hockey stick there's also the horizontal scale of what I think of as the federated small how do we stitch together small enterprises and small initiatives around the world to build a kind of power and capability networked rather than traditional hierarchies. So, that's what's going on on the health front Jane is on a new treatment regime for her cancer and seems to be doing better oncologist is cautiously optimistic. So that's been a sense of relief for both of us in this house must see how that goes. I've been very hard in everything I do I've, I've, I've, I've been weary of a new entrepreneur venture because of the uncertainty of that but given the uncertainty of everything like we were talking about earlier this calls like what the fuck let's go. Let's do it. You know, dance as per consensus change and move it forward. So that's, that's where I am at the moment. So does anybody have a hard stop in two minutes we have time to actually stay on and listen to Julian. You have to go anybody else. Mila, okay. The rest of us can stay Julia know and definitely hear from you. Grace you had your hand raised for a minute there did you want to speak quickly or as Mila could you put your contact info in the chat if you're willing to or somehow help you. Jeff, Jeff. I can't even speak at the moment. Jerry knows me well so I'll put that in. So we need to get a whole new Jerry knows and can do. Yeah, I wanted to say something about some of the stuff that Gil was doing but they're so they're like eight different things I want to say to you about that Gil and some people I want to introduce you to so I'll take that offline with you. Thanks for Julian. Welcome. Morning, I was going to say excuse me for being late I was dealing with a combination of a dead computer and a kitten can't go outside because of the weather so he's taking it out by being rambunctious inside just seems to settle down right a few seconds ago. Checking is on a quite different tack because I'm actually building software. Recently I updated my the brain exporter to handle the brain 12 files. And this allows me to interface to the Neo4j graph database what any graph database and actually, and then also my own knowledge base visualizer. So what I'm working on now that that's working I'm trying to implement my knowledge based management system on Google cardboard tilt five and then a VR headset with the eventual goal, not to have this running as a product on these, but to form a research base for how you would manage knowledge, if it was something you could literally put your hands on. So that is what I'm going to be doing by the end of the year. I just got a question for you about the brain and obsidian. It's in the chat. Yeah. I don't know. Subsidian handle Jason import. No. No, it would. It would take some work. If they don't handle Jason or graph ML then it would take some work but theoretically it's possible. Yes. Pete Kaminsky probably knows the answers. All right, well that wraps our call for the day it's really great to see everybody I wish you all a great new year happy solstice Merry Christmas if you're celebrating Christmas, happy ones. Happy New Year, all that good stuff. I think we have one more call next week. Let Jerry confirm that but I seem to hear her recall him saying that next week's our last call so I have no idea what that'll be about but it just I want to say my appreciation to each and every one of you it's been just a pleasure to hang out with you these last couple years online here and I've learned so much and I just want to keep that going. So, take care of yourselves. Thank you everybody. Stay safe.