 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump, mind pump, with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. In this episode, in this very serious episode. Anything but that. Mind pump, for about 11 minutes, we talk about common mind pump sayings. Oh. Yeah, I forgot what that was about. Oh yeah, that's right. We have our own. That's right. And Justin teaches us how to speak elfin and orc. Believe it or not. Very educational. Believe it or not, he does speak both of those fluently. We talk about great white sharks in Santa Cruz. Great white. Yeah, great white sharks. Sarks. They're seri. Which is why I won't swim in the ocean. I'm actually scared of them. Then we get to the questions of this episode. We talk about the best exercise or the best ways to do exercise to correct a sagging or uneven shoulder. I knew you thought I'd say that. Shoulder. It ain't that bad. Then we talk about our thoughts on whether or not children should lift weights between 12 and 13, as my voice actually became a childlike there for a second. Then we answer the question of whether or not we recommend a mini cut for someone even if their BMI is above 35. So in other words, we've got some serious obesity issues. Do we still recommend mini cuts or should they just go cut all the way? Final question, our opinion on obstacle course racing, otherwise known as OCR, the training, the events, and how our methodology could be used to benefit competitors in the sport. Find out if we'll see you there. Finally, the Maps Prime Pro Bundle is here. Is here. So we just released our newest program, Maps Prime Pro, which is our most correctional Maps program ever. It looks at the joints of the wrists. It looks at the neck, the lumbar spine, the hips, the ankles and the toes. All the areas that you probably didn't know should also be well connected and have good recruitment patterns that can affect the rest of your workouts. It's in that program. It's correctional. But we also have our normal Maps Prime program, which teaches your body how to prime your workouts according to your body and how it moves. Well, we took them and we put them together in a bundle. The price is discounted tremendously. And the place to get this Prime Pro Bundle is at mindpumpmedia.com. Doug, are we giving some shirts away right now or what? We are. We're giving away five shirts. Okay, give them away. Yeah, we had 15 reviews. So we got Theodore de Great, Nikhil Nalamothu, Muscle, Hamster Watson, A Cameron 37, Nick Ford. All of you are winners. Send the name I just read to itunes at mindpumpmedia.com, your shipping address and your shirt size. We'll get that right out to you. Get your shirts. Pip, pip, pip, pip, monkey in the wrench. Yeah. That's 100%. That's a fucking saying though. It's stuck. Damn it. It's stuck. So we gotta think. Forever. Hopefully this episode airs after the last one we did so that people know what we're talking about. I know. It'll be a really confusing. So the normal saying is throw a wrench. Throw a wrench in the mix? In it. Yeah, throw a wrench in the machine. Thank you, see it. Throw a monkey wrench in the works. Monkey wrench in the works? Is that what it is? Yeah, yeah. Oh, okay. So Justin took a shortcut. Obviously, he just throws the monkey's pritch. He just pritched it together in a meek way. But if you think about it, I love sayings because when you think of the saying, Throw a monkey in the wrench. It makes sense. That's just a fucking wrench. You throw a monkey that by the fucking wrench. Oh, you throw a monkey in that wrench. Shit's going down. You know my favorite saying of all time is because every time I hear it, I picture it. When this shit hits the fan. If that. If it hits the fan. It hits the fan. Oh, God. Shit. You know what I mean? It reminds me of like Indiana Jones. Oh my God. I was just looking at it. Where the guy's just back it up and he's like, ah. Yeah. Do you know what movie that is, Adam? No. Well, I know Indiana Jones, but I don't remember that part. Oh my God. It's an iconic part. Ray has lost arc. He keeps disappointing me. What part? He was the big, huge Nazi guy. Yeah. I remember when he's fighting him and he's just getting his ass kicked and then he's backing him up, backing him up, but the guy doesn't know that behind him is a propeller. Which is bullshit because you'd hear that motherfucker right behind him. I think he would even feel just the moving air. Yeah. We can't even wait. Doug, click the translation for that. Let me see what the translation is. I want to read what the translation is. He got Monkey in the Wrench. I just read it. It was right there, dude. What are you doing? To do something that prevents a planner activity from succeeding. Throw a monkey in the Wrench. The funding for the project was withdrawn so that really threw a monkey in the Wrench. A monkey wrench in the works. Yeah, that's what you're supposed to say. So what's your favorite saying? Mine is when the shit is the fan. What's yours? I don't know if I have a go-to. Of course you do. He's not coming to you right now. Yeah, I don't know. I think we would know each other. Like what do I, what do you catch me saying a lot? In my wheelhouse. It's going downtown Julie Brown. No, is that another one? Is that just me? OK. Adam always says, wheelhouse. Downtown Julie Brown. OK, see that's good. Wheelhouse is yours. What's Justin's? I do use that. What is me? I mean, I use that one. That was terrible. I don't know. I can't understand what it is because it's an elfish. Lean, I don't know who he is. See, there it is. What the heck? Did you just speak elf right now? It's not that so many times, dude. That's literally, that's his fucking saying. I know, I know a different language. I'm multilingual, but it's not real languages. I mean, it's like, it's a pig, pig me, elfish, what else do you want to say? Orc, you know. So you can communicate to all the Disney characters. Yeah, I don't, I'm trying to think of something that you say all the time. What do you, you know what, oh, Sal says, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah, which by the way, ladies and gentlemen, by the way, you can't say that anymore. Oh, oh, oh. That's your work, bro. It's pretty good. It's pretty good. You should know you can't say ladies and gentlemen anymore. Why? Because I'm not making this up. I actually read a fucking article about this because it's assuming everybody's gender and the crowd. Oh my god, dude. I am not joking. It's got too far. Yeah, I can't say ladies and gentlemen. So fuck, I don't know what you're supposed to say. Oh my god, we're gonna have to get on to you every time. And all the gender pronouns, yeah. Attention use. Use people, I mean, you can't even say people. Maybe it's not a person. I gotta take it back. You have one other one that you do and I can't remember who it is. It's ladies and gentlemen is one of them. Trip off this, I always say that. What else do I say? You say ladies and gentlemen. I mean, I say dude, but that's, you know, it's a given. Yeah, it is. Yeah, I don't know. And that's not really a saying. And dude, by the way, I learned this because I had a friend from the East Coast. Dude is just as common on the East Coast as it is on the West Coast. They just use it differently. For example. Yeah, give me example. In California, if I want Justin to go get me a pizza, go get a pizza with me. I'll say, dude, let's go get a pizza. On the East Coast, they'll say, let's go get a pizza dude. They throw it at the end like that. Let's go get a pizza dude. That means something totally different to me. What do you mean? Like, I'm gonna get a pizza dude. Like, I'm gonna get gay. Let's do this. I've always wanted to be with a pizza dude. I've always wanted to be with a pizza dude. I've been watching a lot of porn. Come on, East Coast people. It's not easy. But that's how they use it, dude. Remember DJ? Is that true? And his brother, Paul, remember Paul and his brother and DJ? They were brother-in-law. Anyway, DJ dense morning. Oh, okay, yeah. Yeah, that's how they used to use it from Boston. And so they used to use dude at the end of every sentence. And I always started off the sentence with dude. Yes. It was fascinating to me. Dude. It was mind-blowing. Well, it's like, Sal, and then you say something. Dude, then you say something. They say something and then dude. Dude, check this out. I like your shoes, dude. Like that. Versus dude, I like your shoes. See what I'm saying? Yeah, I do. Dude. It's backwards. And because dude originated in California, I mean they're basically copying us and fucking it up. So, hey, East Coast. Oh, shit. Is that the origin? Is the origin from here? Has to be because it's a surfer term. I would imagine. Oh, no, it might be. Surfs up dude. No, hold on a second. It might be a Western thing because of like what the cowboys use. Well, dude ranch and all that. Well, if you're theory on it being a surfer and the saying is, serves up, dude. Isn't that what the saying is? Yeah, they did that after. Yeah, they, yeah, I get that. It's not dude, serves up. I know that. But I'm saying the way it's used in our lexicon, the way we speak it is we say it first. Where's the origin? So where's it coming from? I don't know. Doug's looking it up right now. Are you looking at the origin of dude? Can you look that up? Oh, so the late 19th century, denoting a dandy, probably shortened from doodle. Perhaps. Yankee doodle. That's not as cool. Oh, so like Yankee doodle do, dandy. So Yankee doodle dude. That's way better than dandy. I don't like the sound of dandy. Yeah, forget about that. Hey, dandy. That's dandy. Yeah, I don't like that that much. Dude, you know what I saw? See, I see it right now. Do you know what I saw, dude? I was on Facebook. Yes, I did. I was on Facebook. I have to actually have a conversation with you, Justin. Okay, all right. Because I know you go to the beach a lot because you live in the Santa Cruz area. Yeah. And you go in the ocean. Yeah. Do you go in the ocean far enough to where your feet don't touch the sand anymore? Do you swim in the ocean? Yeah, it's a good call. Yeah, like I not very frequently. Good. Yeah. Thank God. Do you guys realize how many great white sharks there are? Just recently they had to close the beaches, right? Not fucking sharks. Like, oh, that's a shark. No, these are legit man-eaters. The biggest ones in the world and the highest concentration, I believe. Dude, that's why I never got into surfing, dude. So I tried to add that one in there, yeah. Crazy. Right there, dude, in our backyard. Is it the worst here? It's... What is it though? There's a lot here, but I think Australia's worse. I don't know. I want to say. I want to say South Africa. South Africa, I believe, is the worst. But I know it's one of the most populated areas in the world. Because scientists actually go, there's a spot. What is it that spots like an underground, an underground underwater shipwreck? Like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And like hell of them are over there. And if you go diving and stuff, like... You always see them, like, where that... I feel like that ship... Based off the information you got from like a Disney cartoon. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, what? No, no, no, it was... You know what you're thinking? Yeah, you know what you're thinking right now? Port Nemo or... You're thinking a little Nemo because they swam through the ship. Got the reference. I did get the reference. No, no, there's a shipwreck or something, right? Like a cement, something down there. And tons of great whites. And so it makes me totally reaffirms my sphere of the ocean. I never go out that far. I'm not gonna go swimming my feet, don't I? If I could touch the ground, I'm cool. When was the last time, Justin, there was an attack? Oh, just recently. Here's some stats for you. Well, this is total attacks. I'm talking about great white sharks. But yeah, this is total attacks. Because total attacks, you're gonna have to count... Are we not even in the top 10? No, Florida is USA. I mean, they're not that frequent. Oh, no, no. California, USA. Yeah, okay, so what I wanna see, Doug, is the highest instance of great white shark attacks. Not just shark attacks, because you could get bit by like a nurse shark. Come on, Doug, step up your googling. You know what I mean? This little sand shark is nibbling on you. Oh, I got attacked by a shark. Yeah, it doesn't count. I'm reporting this. But I never go in the ocean where my feet don't touch because I feel like it's gonna bite my toes and shit. So I'm out. I'm in the sand. You know what's funny? The fear I've always had of the ocean is not of sharks. It's just gross and seaweed and slimy and like... God damn, you sound like a pussy. Right? Yeah. It says the guy who won't swim or swim in the sea. Because for sharks, not because it's icky. Can you nibble my toe? Yeah. Because it's... Hey, dude. Watch out for the sharks. I'm like, it's gonna take a bite out of my ribs. I'm also talking about when I'm five years old. I grew the fuck out of that at least. So I'll go out and swim. So when you go swim, I'm gonna pose a scenario. You're at the delta or something like that where it's murky as fuck and dirty. And you're swimming where your feet don't touch and then you feel something brush by your toes. Do you freak out? Totally. Oh my God. I lose my mind if that happens. It's horrible. All right. Bring on the questions, Douglas. Quo-o-o-o-o. Quo-o-o-o-o-o. Qu-o-o-o-o-o-o. Qu-o-o-o-o-o. Today's Quo-o-o-o-o-o is being brought to you by Kymarocoffee. It's the only coffee that is infused with all natural Nutri-opics for a cleaner, calmer and more focused buzz without the crash. Put the Kymarolink at mindpumpmedia.com and input the discount code Mindpump a check out for 10% off. It's the motherfucking Quo-o-o-o. The eagle has landed. Qu-o-o-o-o. All right our first question is from Mr. Mallory. What are the best ways or exercises to correct a sagging uneven shoulder? A sagging shoulder? So one that's kind of dropped. Would that be forward shoulder or is he talking about down? No I think he's got a knee and a shoulder. Yeah he's probably his scapula is probably elevated right? On one side or do you think one is depressed too much on one side? Either way right? You've got an imbalance. Yeah most common that I've seen are people that have like one that's really like super overactive and tight and like if you get somebody who does like a job where they're like riding on a whiteboard for hours all day long. It's actually common. I almost never see unconditioned I should say people's shoulders being even. When I do an assessment there's always one that's harder than others. It is common. It's definitely and what you see I feel like you see this a lot with people that either drive so like my bus drivers, taxi drivers, someone who drives Uber all day long, somebody who is a teacher who is riding on a whiteboard or a chalkboard all day long, somebody who is lifting their shoulder up to do whatever they do for a living all day long, tend to have this imbalance. And it's just the trap is super overactive in it. On one side? Yeah rolls the shoulder girdle forward and up and then if you don't correct that and you go do all your exercises you just worsen the condition. Yeah now if this is due to an actual problem like a neurological issue like you have not your typical poor connection because you don't use it but you have an injury, an old injury that did something and now there's a muscle that's not really turning on. Like if you can rule that out and it's just basic you know right to left and balance because of deconditioning. One of the simplest things you can do is do all your movements with dumbbells, go really light, watch yourself in the mirror and force yourself to be exactly the same or symmetrical between the two sides when you do your exercises. Now this is going to require you to use less weight than you normally would because the second you raise the weight to a point where there's a certain amount of intensity involved, your old pattern will take over because that's the one you're strongest in, that's the one that you're always in. So lightweight dumbbells go really slow and literally watch yourself and just match the two and what you'll find is you'll end up having to take the weaker side and that's the one that's going to have to end up working more but make sure everything looks exactly the same in the mirror and that should help. Another thing that I see that's common with people with uneven shoulders is actually a serratus imbalance where they get winging in the shoulder blade. You guys ever see that where somebody will do push-ups and one shoulder blade will wing a lot or they're standing and you can see it kind of winging a lot and so sometimes people will notice that one shoulder is higher than the other but they're not realizing that they're having winging going on just because they don't see themselves. What do you think about doing a little, because this is pretty common and we have all dealt with this enough, what do you think about doing a little YouTube series where we talk about different movements and ways that we would address this? It's definitely a visual thing. Both sides match or something like that. Okay. Yeah, Doug, maybe we do a YouTube series after this to go in conjunction with the release of this. But yeah, so if you have that issue where one of your shoulder blades is winging, then there are exercises you could do, for example, you could get into a push-up position with your arms locked, not bend your elbows, but let your body sag between your shoulders and then press away. It's all scapular and then you can start to strengthen that right there. This is actually more the winging of the shoulder blade. It's not super common, but it's more common than you realize because I remember when I first got taught this years ago. Well, think about it. You're either right or left-handed and you're going to do a lot more with whatever dominant hand you are and you when you tend to throw a ball or write on a piece of paper or write anywhere on a chalkboard wipe or drive a certain way, you naturally kind of roll the shoulder forward. And if you're doing that on one side all day long all the time and you've done that for many years while you were not in the gym doing corrective movements to help keep it, you know, balanced. I mean, yeah, it's super common. It's in some people, it's really bad. Some people it's like I think it's most common where it's just slightly off and I think when I really that's that's so common and it's hard to address because people sometimes they didn't notice. Well, you know how I think to me how I always saw this right and I remember like it took me a long time before I put this together and learned how to start to really help people here, but I remember getting people under a bench press and they always tend to the bar is really uneven. Yeah. So if you're somebody who when you bench press even when you extend your arms, the bar isn't perfectly level and you have a hard time keeping the bar perfectly level throughout the entire movement. This is tends to be one of the conditions right here that that is causing that. So that's one way for someone trying to figure that out. Quick commercial break. Hey, people ask us all the time how they can support mind pump. Here's what you can do. You can go to www.brain.fm forward slash mind pump and get 20% off brain FM for meditation or focus. You can also go to www.audibletrial.com forward slash mind pump and get a 30 day trial plus one free audio book. Lastly, you can go to www.getnatureblend.com forward slash mind pump and you will get a discount on Ben Greenfield CBD product. Next up is Teran Dutu. What are your thoughts on whether or not children should lift weights? And this person's referring to a 12 to 13 year old. You know what's interesting about this question is that people place weights in a different category or as if lifting resistance was there was something inherently bad about it for the body. Therefore, you have to be a particular common thing. It stunts your growth. Yeah, it's an old, it's an old myth. It's an old myth that training with weights will stunt your growth. Now, first off, definitely weight before you lift weights, but not because of the resistance, but just because of the balance factor. I've trained young kids before and the hardest thing to do with a 10 year old when they're lifting a very lightweight above their head that they have the strength to lift is keeping the balance with it. You give them two dumbbells. Properly stabilizing themselves and being firm in position. Yeah, a lot of times, yeah, they just kind of go with momentum with a lot of their movement patterns and that's something that they need to learn as a prerequisite to that for sure. Exactly, because their arms will move all over the place. So, young, I mean, if you rephrase the question, thoughts on whether or not children should be active. Yes, always, from day one. So, and using resistances absolutely fine, given they have decent amount of balance and it's usually around 12 or 13 that you'll see more of it, but they still have poor balance. I'm not gonna lie, a 13 year old first time lifting, they also have poor balance. It's just not as bad, not nearly as bad as when they were nine or 10. But yeah, there is no detriment at all to proper resistance training for anyone. And that myth of stunting growth is still, I hate it, it's still prevalent, but it's a myth because what they did is they took, when people came up with that myth, is they understood that before a certain age, there are growth plates in between your bones and your bones actually get longer and bigger and that's one of the reasons why you get taller. And if you damage those growth plates, the bone won't grow anymore or won't grow any longer. So, you've essentially stunted the growth of those bones. Now, what we need to consider is the amount of force required to damage those growth plates with proper resistance training. I wanna say proper. So, you get a 13 year old who's properly doing a barbell squat. The amount of weight that we would have to put on the bar in that proper form and technique and all that, in order to damage those growth plates is way more weight than that 13 year old would ever be able to lift. It's just way more weight. So, there is no worry about that. Now, can you damage growth plates doing horrible form and banging something on yourself and falling down and stuff like that? Of course, that can happen with any accident. Well, I think that's the big fear of allowing a 12 or a 13 year old to work out. I never liked training kids, although I trained a ton. I didn't like it because for this exact reason, most of them, their proprioception is so horrible that they're all over the place. They're tripping over their feet. They're super clumsy, getting them to settle down to train and work on mechanics. So, I had to come up with little clever tricks to get them to train the way I wanted to. So, I'll give you an example. It just popped in my head when I was thinking about this. I remember having this kid who was a hockey player and he was 12 or 13 right around that age. And I was trying to get him to do a shoulder press and just not do it like flailing his arms all over the place. And so, I kind of made a game out of it where I stood in front of him and I balanced on one leg. I had him balance on one leg and then I told him he had to mirror me with the weights and then I grabbed some 10-pound weights. He had some 5-pound weights and then we're shoulder pressing and it was who could stay balancing and not set the dumbbells down the longest and we're trying to mirror each other and go as slow as we can. And I made a game out of mirroring me and actually stabilizing and slowing the repetition down as slow and controlled as possible because that's extremely challenging for them. They'll, like Sal said, they'll want to flail their arms and they'll be all over the place. They just have bad control of their bodies with weight at the end of their limbs, you know? So, mostly, you know, at that age, I think for the most part, which now I've also had anomalies too. I've also had kids that were just at that, their parents got them into sports. Gymnastics. Oh, yeah. You ever train a kid who's done gymnastics? Yeah, and they had unbelievable body control and I could teach them a deadlift and a squat. Well, that's the thing. If they have that, you know, ability, like I'm not going to stifle that. I'm going to try and build upon that. Like, why would you? They just have to prove that they have done that work to where they have the control and the means to support their joints properly in all these different ranges of motion and, you know, especially to whatever their goal is, like, it's great to teach kids proper lifting techniques. I think that a lot of the fear with this is, you know, it's fear of bad coaches, bad strength conditioning, like whatever the program is, because there are a lot of bad uneducated coaches out there that will improperly load weight on kids and, you know, and like this happened actually to my wife, like she had a really bad coach that, you know, took over the volleyball team and had them all, like doing back loaded squats with way too much weight. And, you know, there's, I think it's unfortunate because like weights will definitely help aid in strength and performance. It's just, there's a progression to that and there's a proper dose of that. And so, you know, you got to consider all these things. What, like we're not trying to over intensify their workouts and it's not like the entire goal. Yeah, and in proper resistance training at that young of an age that's, and it's done properly. Remember, that's the key word here. Huge benefit to a 12 or 13 year old. They will gain proprioceptive ability of their bodies, far faster rates doing that versus not doing it. They will also build muscle. And if they're a male in particular going, they start to go through puberty right around that age. You have your kid lift them and if your kid's lifting weights and they love it and they're doing it right and they're doing it during their puberty years, you're taking advantage of a very anabolic period of life. Huge spike. And there's been some speculation that right around that time is a good time to maybe induce muscle hyperplasia where you're not only thickening muscle fibers, but you're producing more muscle fibers. So now your kid probably is going to have better muscle building genes as an adult because of the training they did when they were young. But earlier we were talking about like kids in gymnastics. You know that I have never seen a sport done with kids that gives them just the body awareness. Like I was at the community pool with my kids over the weekend and there were these like, I don't know, they're probably 10, 10 year old boys. First of all, I knew they were gymnasts because they were fucking ripped. Like these were 10 year old kids and they have six packs. You know what I mean? They're not muscular because they're small, but you can tell like, holy shit. And then sure enough, I'm watching them do handstand, you know, walking and they're doing back flips and then they're going off the diving board and doing all these flips and stuff. And I mean, their proprioceptive ability is amazing. And that's the flip side of it is if you start at a young age and learn proprioceptive ability and really train it in your body, you are setting yourself up really well for the future because there's a certain level of it that becomes permanent. Just like, you know, when they say, never forget to learn a bike. Part of the reason why you never forget to learn a bike, how to ride a bike is because you learn how to ride during that period of time when your body is kind of developing these permanent connections. So yeah, 12, 13 years old, do it properly. Great idea. Body weight first in my opinion. And then once you start to progress to weights, stress mechanics over weight and go lean towards the slower repetitions, you know, four, five, six, eight seconds, 10 second, you know, eccentric motion. So emphasizing the skill and the mechanics. Yeah, just going real, real slow, you know, slow on the way down in a squat, pause at the bottom and then come up, you know, real slow on the way down, you know, just getting them to understand that control and the isometric part of the exercise too over, you know, trying to get them to lift more weight, you know, go that direction first. Spet 13 is asking, do you still recommend the mini-cut way of eating if someone's BMI is over 35? I'm up there with my daily calorie burn is approximately 3,400. I am comfortable eating 18 to 2,200 calories. Is that too big of a deficit? I wish I knew what this person's total weight was. Well, 35 is a high BMI. Well, that's why I want to know because right away, that high of a BMI, there's no doubt that that's a low, low calorie burn and that's even lower caloric intake. That's very low. I, you know, this is a tough one. So you're talking about someone's really obese, like severely obese. You still do a mini-cut. It's just a longer mini-cut. So what I mean by that is if I had, let's say I have a 300 pound client and they need to lose, you know, 150 pounds. It's a big, you know, half their body weight they have to lose, right? I will keep them in a deficit for a decent period of time, but I will break it up with small periods of either smaller deficits or even a maintenance because I don't care how big you are, metabolic damage happens. The biggest loser is a great example of this. They've done a few articles on some of these contestants. Every single one of them had a BMI. That was over 35 and they were all severely obese and all of them, if you watch the show, did severe calorie restriction, any crazy amounts of activity and afterwards all of them gained the weight back and some of them were measured where they were, you know, just to keep the weight off. They were doing two hours a day of exercise and eating 1,200 calories and these are big people. It's not like they lost a bunch of weight and they were tiny people. Many of them were just naturally big people. 1,200 calories a day, two hours of exercise every day just to maintain what they did on the show. So you don't want to be put in that position because I think the last thing you want is to get yourself out of this obesity to succeed at that and then find yourself in a position where you're gaining the weight back. Yeah, because now you feel helpless and then it becomes this like spiral, yeah. So we kind of talked about this the other day and honestly, if I had you as a client, I would actually have you eating closer to 3,000 calories right now and strength training. Our goal would not to be creating a big deficit and trying to lose weight right now. I'd be trying to speed up your metabolism. The reason why you feel comfortable eating 1,800, 1,200 is because your body is pretty adapted to that. It feels satiated and it feels fine. That's not a good sign. 1,800 calories for someone of your size, you have way more mass and fat, just more weight to you that both fat and muscle tissue require calories. So they both require calories and muscle requires more. So even if you don't have a lot of muscle and even if you have a lot of fat, it still requires a lot of calories and you're not feeding it a lot of calories. So yes, fat will start to slowly fall off. But if you are eating in that much of a deficit, that low of calories and you don't feel hungry, that's not a good sign. You should feel hungry. If someone of your size only eating 1,800 calories, you should feel hungry because your metabolism is ramped up so high that that's such a low caloric intake. So I would be spending time right now strength training and keeping your calories closer to three. And I really don't like, it's kind of funny we picked this question, but because we don't like to normally address, you know, individual people, right? Like specifically their goal or what they're doing because everyone is so unique. But looking at those numbers, I wouldn't want you in a much of a deficit. I'd be trying to put some good muscle on your body and not put any fat on. So this would be like, I'm looking at a chart right here, just so we have a reference, a man who's 5'9", who weighs 240 pounds. So it's a pretty big, that's a high BMI. Yeah, so that would be... Imagine though, how much caloric, that person should be... I mean, you really want to speed their metabolism. Yes, you don't want cutting it all right here. You're, because there's no way... I mean, you're gonna make, you're not gonna make it all the way at that. You're at one point. So let's say you truck along and you lose 20, 30 pounds and that's not your, that's not your done. You're not done. You want more. Yeah, because you have another 50 or 60 to lose. Where are you gonna go? Right? You're already at 1,800 calories. To get to 50 pound weight loss, you might have either stayed at 1,800 calories or at some point even dropped it to 1,500. Now you want to lose another 60. Like where are you gonna go and where are you gonna end up? Because wherever you end up is where you're gonna have to stay to keep yourself that weight. Okay, so is there any bariatric treatment that would like take those steps like to like build up their muscle first and like not worry about... Oh, I see you're just saying like protocol? Yeah. No, no, no, no. Right? Like I've never even heard of something like that. No, they don't, they don't, they don't, they do psychological analysis. They do, but they do not, they're not like, here's your prescription for resistance training. Interesting. We want to see your strength and mobility go up first. I mean, that would be brilliant if they did. It would be. Well, I just gave this analogy also on the show not that long ago where I, you know, and let's use you for this person we're talking to right now as this example. So we have two ways I could take off training you the next, you know, 30 days. One way my goal is to actually get you to where I'm getting you to eat 3800 calories and not gain any major fat. So that's my, this is trainer A. That's how I'm going to handle this client. The next 30 days, I'm slowly increasing your calories. I'm trying to negate the extra calories by, you know, your program design and increasing volume over time, hoping that any of those extra calories are going, are allocated to building muscle versus getting stored as fat. So that's my trainer A goal. Trainer B says, okay, I'm going to do it your way and I'm going to do 1800 calories to 2000 calories. Put you in about 1000 calorie deficit every day. Loosen weight. At the end of the month, trainer A put you, put one pound on you. You're actually heavier than when you started with trainer A. Trainer B lost you 15 pounds of body fat. Who is better in this situation? Right. See, the person on the other end of that, they don't know any better. They're like, oh, trainer B, dude, I lost 15 pounds. Whereas the right answer is the person that's building you up. I mean, I'll be honest with you, if you're in this category, if you're severely obese and your options are, you know, gastric bypass surgery, severe diet, like what do I do? I need to lose 100 pounds. Get your ass on the forum. I'm going to tell you right now, like these are the type of people that we help on there. This is where we're at. This is where we have an incredible community of people that are supporting and helping. Huge support system. Well, here's what I was going to say. If you're this person, you want to lose 100 pounds of body fat, dedicate one year to gaining strength and performance and maintaining your weight. Literally, seriously, give yourself a year where you don't gain any more weight. And your whole goal is to get stronger and more mobile in the gym. After that year, start the diet process and watch what happens. The odds that it'll become permanent are much higher. Unfortunately, most people do not want to hear what I just said. Nobody who says, I want to lose weight. They don't feel like they're winning. Yeah, nobody wants to hear that. They're all going to be like, fuck that. I'm not going to weigh a year. You also said an extreme amount because it may not. But if you go in with that attitude that it could potentially take you a year to really build it up. But I think you would be surprised. Again, not knowing everything. We're totally speculating right now. But do not be afraid to feed that body more calories, strength train, put more effort and energy into building muscle and get the idea that you need to lose 50 to 100 pounds out of your head. What my goal is, I want to be able to eat more without getting fatter. And if that means I can increase myself up to 3,800 calories, but I haven't lost any weight, you're in a much better place actually a month later eating 3,800 calories and not putting any weight on than the guy who lost 15 pounds from restricting his calories down to 1,800 because you'll eventually run out of you know, room. You just can't keep going, you know? Quick commercial break, you guys. We keep getting asked all the time, how can I support the Mind Pump family? Here's one of the best ways you guys can. You guys love that Chimeric Coffee that we have. Chimeric Coffee with a K. You go to chimericcoffee.com put in the discount code Mind Pump for 10% at the checkout. Also, if you guys want to know how I have this luxurious beard and you want one too, go to bigtopbeardcompany.com put in the discount Mind Pump again but this time for 33% off. Also, you guys, if you guys have not tried Ben Greenfield's new bars out, they're fantastic. If you want some, go to bengreenfieldfitness.com forward slash nature bite put in the code Mind Pump and get 10% off. Go check it out. Kray Manley, what's your view on obstacle course racing? The training, the events. Where do you see it going? How can your training methodology benefit the sport? So, we love it and we weren't necessarily big fans. I mean, I know I wasn't against obstacle course racing. I knew what the tough mother was in the Spartan race and all these other ones in between. Yeah, they look like a lot of fun. Yeah, I always knew what they were. They look cool. They never interested me and I wasn't, I didn't look at them and think, oh my God, they're super awesome. It was just a thing until we met, what's his name? Joe, what's Joe's last name? Jodecina, there you go. Joe DeCina, who is the founder of Spartan races. Isn't it funny how? He's an awesome, he's a fucking awesome. One of the coolest guys ever met. Great storyteller, very cool guy but he talks about what got him into or he tells us what got him into obstacle course racing and what it represents and then I got it. I understood what it was all about. It's literally, we live in this temperature controlled, fluffy world where everything is easy and comfortable. We're a bunch of pussies. Just say it, dude. Cancel around. Well, you could sum it up. And we don't test ourselves. Whatever that means, by the way, it doesn't mean you have to be like some crazy whatever athlete but we just don't test ourselves on a regular basis at all. Physically or mentally but especially physically and there's a lot, you can learn about yourself and there's a lot of growth that comes from reaching those limits because they're challenging. It's almost like hacking life. If you think about life, you grow in life when things are challenging. Well, you can kind of hack that by making things challenging for yourself by doing some of these things. So I can understand the appeal all of a sudden the way you explain it made total sense. So that being said, can we even say what we're doing? Yeah, of course we can. So we're going to be the official podcast hosting the Spartan race championship in Lake Tahoe. I'm pumped about this. Yeah, I'm super pumped about this. It's the world championship. So, you know, all the athletes that around the world even will be there that are the best. How many competitors do you say? I think 12,000. So I mean incredible amount of our boy Ben Greenfield be competing up there as well. So we have a few. We have a few. I know my public listeners that will be competing in there. Well, we have quite a few, I think that are going to be competing in there. So hopefully we get a chance to see some MP family out there. We went to our first one a little while ago because we went to go because Ben was competing. So I went to go say hi. He was in our backyard and man, it's rad. It's really cool to watch. I could really see the appeal. I like the camaraderie and everything else to everybody contributing and cheering people. Well, you just you're testing yourself. I know I know what it feels like. You know, it's hard. Yeah, exactly. I know what it feels like to really test myself and how you feel afterwards. It's incredible. So I think they're really cool. I definitely see them growing. And the reason why I see them growing in size is because life is getting more and more comfortable. The more comfortable life gets, the more you're going to see people challenging. You interrupt that whole process of thinking too. So yeah, like you said, when you're at home, everything is comfortable for you and when you're at work, everything's comfortable for you and when you're in your car, like everything is just catered to us. Like a lot of times we just don't step out of that and really challenge ourselves and what we can deal with adversity wise and overcome. And this is sort of like, I mean, it's definitely like one way to do it. And there's a lot of different ways to do it, but it like the way like he described it, like how that was really challenged your spirit and like how, you know, you had to, you know, endure this, this feat and that kind of reward you get after that. It's, it sounded appealing. So I have, you know, I have a, I think it's, I have something to admit with it. I was not a fan of OCR at all. I was not, even though I'd done a Muddy Buddy before. Like you weren't indifferent. You actually didn't like it. Yeah, but that was the video, right? The Muddy Buddy. No, I did not like, I didn't, I didn't like it and just basically cause personally, not like I didn't like it as like an organization. Like I didn't, I didn't like it personally. I never once said to myself, do I want to do it? I've had all of my buddies have done them. They've all of course invited me to do it and challenged me to do it. And I've told all of them to fuck off. Like I have no, I had no desire to do it just because it doesn't, it doesn't, not a good friend though. I feel like it doesn't fuck off. Like, wow. Hey, I'm into this new thing. Go off it. Oh, you're an idiot. It never, it never aligned with any of my, my own personal goals. So I didn't really connect to it. A lot of the clients that I train that were into OCR or marathon racing or any of that stuff. I saw more people that had a bad relationship with it and they used it as their way of getting in shape. The only way they could get motivated is to train for the next. So being honest, I was, I was not a really big fan of it from, from that perspective, right? But I have to admit like after meeting Joe, and this is, I find it fascinating how meeting one person like that can change my whole view on how I look at it differently now. And when you get the chance to meet the fucking creator of it and talk to him and it helps that I really, really like the dude. Like he is definitely our people. We for sure hit it off with him. I can't wait that episode drops. Oh yeah. I can't wait to introduce him to people to our audience that have never heard of me. Hands down, it was one of, if not the like the coolest stories that I sat and listened to podcast we've done. Yeah, it was one of my favorite for sure. So just getting to know him and then hearing the business side. I was so fascinated with that. And when we, and we've talked about this before, we knew that where we like your massage businesses, your, your any of these like clinics that are, you know, float tank, you know, all the deep tissue stuff. All of this is on the rise because of how plugged in we are as a society and we're getting worse, right? We're more and more connected to our phones and disconnected from ourselves and those around us. So it makes incredible sense. Dude, it's like a concentrated version of the elements like hammering you, right? You're like making up for like a year's worth of not, you know, getting exposed. Yeah, it makes total sense why it would be a brilliant idea to build a business like this because there's a huge need for it and the need is growing right along with technology, which it's funny because it's totally opposite of that. But that's why it's because people are going to need this more and more. It's an outlet, dude. It's becoming an outlet and as studies are starting to come out showing that some of these team building event type things like this, like this, you know, obstacle course racing type stuff is being used quite a bit for team building and there's now studies showing that it improves, you know, employee productivity and morale and you know, people... Yeah, you have another type of connection with your coworker, which is powerful. And you know, these are really popular especially amongst Silicon Valley executives and I think because tech is such a competitive market that they're always looking for an edge, right? They're always looking for the next edge and how to become more creative or whatever. And so you see this be a big popular thing. Yeah, it's definitely going to grow. I don't see it slowing down in any time in the near future. At some point, it probably will but I don't and the biggest one is Spartan and you know, we got to attend one of those. I mean, again, I think they're really awesome. I don't think it's a good idea to use them or marathons or any other event for that matter as a, like Adam was saying, as a reason to work out because there's lots of those people who, they cannot find the... They can't get themselves to the gym unless they're training for something. And these are the same people that have... But if this is your sport and you're training for your sport, you know, that's cool. That's where it makes sense. And I know we have some listeners that are like serious OCR guys like they literally go to multiple events, totally different stories. It's the same thing with CrossFit, you know. Right, right. Yeah, so it's like if you're using CrossFit for like the ultimate way to beat your body up as a sport, you know, party on. But yeah, it's not like for people trying to get in shape and lose that extra fly. Right, right. I do say, I will say this, as far as our training methodology is concerned, MAPS Performance has its name written all over this. Now, that doesn't mean you just do MAPS Performance for OCR because OCR is so specific, technical. You need to do a large degree of technical and specific type training. So if one of your... Build yourself a course like Ben Greenfield says. Yeah, exactly. If one of your events involves, you know, monkey bars, then you can get really strong doing all kinds of different exercises like you will in MAPS Performance and we're going to give you a very, very good general overall broad spectrum based type performance. But you better incorporate some monkey bar, you know, exercises or, you know, walking across them because that's what you're actually going to do when you compete. So I would say the best... The methodology that you'd want to follow for this is you'd want to have a solid base of training that focuses on... So you basically run through that first, like, legit run through of MAPS Performance, just like we indicate in there. Like, we're building up that raw, maximal strength and we're getting further with that as far as proprioceptive ability and multi-planar type exercises and adapting to that specific type of stimulus and then we move on, you know, and we get a little bit more into power-specific, like speed power. So these are all attributes. Like a good athlete, like, needs all these very specific type of attributes. Especially, you know, obstacle course racing because it's so varied. You know, obstacle course racing involves, like, lifting yourself and then... Summing something like right away. Yeah, so hop over. So I would... The base of your training should be something that works on those attributes, which we would consider broad spectrum performance because it's so many different things. But then the specifics of your training should also be there in the sense that you are practicing your... You are practicing the course, you know, movements and events or whatever on a regular basis and you're not doing them necessarily as part of your workout, although you can. You're doing them more to get better at them and to get more technical. Because here's the other thing. Some of the best obstacle course racers in the world or, like, if you ever watch... What's that game show on TV where they do Ninja Warrior or whatever? Yeah. Which is kind of like that a little bit, right? A little bit, yeah, more... That's even more technical, right? Right. The best athletes that compete in this aren't necessarily the most fit. It's the ones that know how to do the events or the challenges the best and have the best technique. Yeah, for sure. You know, because if your technique is off, you can be fit as hell, have lots of strength and endurance. Your strength to weight ratio. Oh, yeah. Your strength to weight ratio with that because so many of the events require you holding your body weight up or pulling your body weight up over something. Even just running. You want to be light and you don't want a lot of excess weight. That's for sure. This is why Ben Greenfield's so great at it. When you look at him and his physique right now, I mean... He's like a spider face. Super strong hands. Yeah, super lean and small. Again, he doesn't fill out a large t-shirt, but when he's super strong for how... Very, very, very muscular, but not very big. And it gives him that particular level of performance. But the other thing that he has going for him... Those hands. Besides his physical... And those hobbit feet. Besides his physical attributes is his course in his backyard. He has a course in his backyard where he practices these particular events and that's part of his training. It has to be a big part of your training. He used to do the trath lawns all the time. I forgot about that. I thought he was just like an obstacle course guy. And when I was up there with Kyle... And he would challenge us to go swim across this freezing river and then come back. And just bust out. And he just jumped in and started swimming. And then Kyle went in with him. I was like, no way, man. I knew better. How far did Kyle get? Kyle got about halfway. And then he was just like... Just looking around like, no. Did Ben go all the way? Oh, he just jammed. Jammed all the way there. Like nothing then came back. He's a machine, dude. But that's also fucking irresponsible, Ben. I know, right? He was killed, everybody. I was going to go get a life observer and jump out there and grab Kyle. Because that could suck real bad. You're halfway through and you're like, I can't make it back or forward. I'm going to drown right now. I think Kyle should take him on a jiu-jitsu mat now. Oh my God. The last guy I wanted to jiu-jitsu. He's big, strong, and technical. Oh my God. Look, if you go to YouTube, you should check out our channel, Mind Pump TV. We post a new video every single day. Subscribe to that channel. Also, if you want to ask us a question that we answer on an episode like this one, the place to do it is Instagram and the page to do it on is Mind Pump Media. We all also have personal pages. I'm going to start with the best one first. It's Mind Pump Doug. Then it's Mind Pump Justin, Mind Pump Adam, and finally, Mind Pump Sal. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert, exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. 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