 The foundation of what my human life is based on, which for me is about being a link between the spiritual and the physical. Yes. And it's used to allow the spiritual to express itself in physical. And so when my life becomes based on that foundation, it changes everything and gives me a lot more purpose. Beyond the ego-based purpose, obviously programmed into us by our societies. And I really resonate with the work of people who talk about embodiment because it's aligned with what I truly believe we're here to do, which is to ground spiritual energies, to ground spirit in physical matter, and to spiritualise matter so that this universe can keep growing and become more self-aware. And I feel like humanity has been given a really important role by whatever you'd like to call that source energy. I normally, in the book, I refer to it as the Great Spirit, where you can use God or Brahman or the universe, whatever you want to say. I believe the task we've agreed to and we've been given by Great Spirit is to come here and be that link between spirit and matter. And that, to me, manifests itself in the everyday, Monday life of human activities, spiritualising everything we do. And how do we do that? Well, it's a lifelong work. It requires a lot of self-work. I can't start imposing what worked on me, on everyone around me, thinking that this is how you need to wake up and this is what you need to do and you need to focus on shadow work, because you just become a tyrant when you start opposing your will. And so you have to honour the fact that you're on your own unique journey and that everyone else is on their own unique journey. And just, in my mind, put seeds of awareness out there and some of the seeds you put out there might land on fertile soil and help someone transform. And so that's for me, it's that expanding of your awareness that is the sign that you're spiritually developing. And I guess the side effects of that are definitely things such as feeling calmer, feeling more graceful, feeling more creative, feeling more joy, feeling more grounded even when the outside world starts to become a bit tumultuous. So shadow work is a really, really challenging and can be a very, very painful and extremely messy process. Like, I don't want to tiptoe around that. It can be really, really tough in terms of shadow work. You don't really need to go through life seeking it. Life will constantly give you the situations, the people, the events that you need to trigger you within. They have the potential to catalyze your evolution and it's up to you whether you surrender and work with those catalysts or whether you resist them and push them away because the more we resist them, all you're going to do is send the message to the universe, I need a bigger, more powerful product to come my way. And so it's like, do we need the universe to give us a little tickle with a feather to kind of help us become more aware? Or do we need it to give us a big hit over the head with a sledgehammer? I know someone's opinion may contradict yours. Where's my friend Alan? It's all about your perspective. Who are we and what is the nature of this reality? What's up everyone? Welcome to Simulation. I'm your host Alan Sakyan. Super pumped to be talking about free range humans. We have Matthew Steven joining us on the show. Hi Matt. Alan, thanks so much for having me. I've seen quite a few of your interviews before I even met you. So I love the content you put out. I'm really grateful to be on the show. Thank you very much. And I have seen some of your content as well. And when you released the book, I saw it through Tom Montauk's tweet that he wrote the intro for. And then as soon as I started reading it, it was one of those page turners. I finished it in a day. I loved it. That link is in the bio and it's seedsofawareness.com.au. And you can find the free range humans book there. You can find Matt's other book there. He was also the author of 365 Days of Wholeness. You can find that there. And I'm still pumped to dive into this with you. We have a lot of topics here. So we'll see how well we can move between them. There's so much good stuff. All right, I want to start with this question. Actually, we're obsessed with this question. We basically ask all of our guests this question. And the question is, what is the point of reality? What's the purpose of this reality? And I feel like we're both along the same lines here. Would you say that it's the evolution of consciousness? Yeah, I mean, obviously, that's quite a deep question. And it took me three years to sort of put the answer into my book. But what you just said then probably wraps up what I believe really well. I do believe this is about evolution of consciousness and evolution of the universe. So yeah. Awesome. Yeah, I'm trying to see if we can kind of gain a little bit of this consensus around what the point is and have more children kind of be born into understanding what the point is instead of never ever encountering it by the time they've died. So that's great. And well, I think just to cut in there, I think it's really important that that becomes a key question that humanity starts asking and starts exploring. Because I mean, obviously, there's some things like that that it does become a bit of a personal opinion and belief because there's some things that I guess we can't ever really truly know unless maybe we escape this human shell and really find out. But in terms of, you know, I think our life becomes defined by what we believe in regards to that question. And for me, if the universe is about evolution and evolution of consciousness, then that, I guess, really defines how I believe the foundation of what my human life is based on, which for me is about being a link between the spiritual and the physical. And it transdues that to allow the spiritual to express itself in physical. And so when my life becomes based on that foundation, it changes everything and gives me a lot more purpose beyond the ego-based purpose, obviously, programmed into a fight by our societies. Yes, yes, so well said. So the more that we can get this idea of the evolution of consciousness being something that is what we think is the point of the reality, the more that we can ground our day-to-day habits, actions, patterns in the process of me, myself doing self-work, inner engineering, and anchoring the divine here in the physical on Earth. OK, excellent, excellent. So I want to say this. I want to see how we feel on this as well. Would you say that then this third density, and this is the physical reality of matter that we find ourselves in, and you call this in Bernard Gunther, Tom Montau, call this the matrix control system, MCS, would you say that this is a perfect harmonic flux between good and evil, between a school and a prison to basically be a pressure cooker for the evolution of consciousness? Yeah, beautifully said. I mean, that's exactly how I see it, because I believe it's that friction between those two polarities which creates evolution. And obviously, there's that human part of us is that part of us that would love for things to just be easy here and for things to just settle down and go always go the way we want them to. And in terms of the bigger evolution of consciousness and of ourselves, we need a catalyst for that evolution. And whenever I think of this density we're in and the way it's run and how it operates, I always think of, say, a jungle. Let's say the Amazon jungle. If you go watch a documentary of the Amazon jungle, what you'll see there is the most perfect conditions for life imaginable in terms of the temperature, in terms of the amount of rainfall and humidity. And so it's created this container for life. But then what you also see is the most unbelievable adaptations of life form you could ever imagine in terms of the adaptations of predators and then the adaptations of prey, the lengths they've gone to to kind of advance themselves so that they can survive within the Amazon jungle is just unbelievable. You don't see life forms like that really anywhere else on the planet. And it's because of the pressure. It's because of the constant friction between those predators and between those preys that creates those adaptations in the plant life, in the insect life, in the animal life. And so I believe it's the same here. We choose to come down into this density and experience this intense friction which manifests as these evil forces as this control system, which is constantly testing us, challenging us, prodding every weak point that we have within ourselves. And I believe that there's a high purpose to that, which is to help us to grow, which is to separate the, I guess you could say the spiritually strong from the spiritually maybe not ready in this life form to sort of advance to where they're heading. And so yeah, I think it is both a prison and a school. I really like how you also talked about that pressure cooker friction for non-humans as well, for even animals and plants that also experience the predator-prey relationship that's constantly forcing function for evolution. Super interesting. And okay, I wanna focus on this too. We talked about this just a moment ago that Sri Aurobindo, someone that we both admire a lot, says that we are in need of the grounding of unity consciousness in the physical world to create the life divine on earth. And this is like, an idea is like this range of human development. And Ken Wilber has talked about this as well with Integral Theory and Jean-Pierre Gého is talking about this as well. Allison Gopnik is talking about this with the very, very early child days. Basically that you, why don't we talk, we're talking about every child knowing, well, what about every child knowing that there's this range of human development and you want to get to a point where you know what unity consciousness is and you wanna get to a point where you ground that in the physical and manifest that in your families and your friends and of your everyday interactions. So how do you think about that range of human development? Yeah, I mean, what, by the way, I just love how we've delved straight into the deep stuff. No warming up here. This is the stuff I love chatting about. I mean, yeah, as you said earlier, I think it might have been off camera or maybe said in the intro that we've been influenced by similar people in Bernard Gunther and Tom Montauk and they've obviously been heavily influenced by people like Shri or Abindu. And the reason I really liked their work so much is because I feel like they focus on aspects of spiritual development and human development that I feel a lot of other spiritual movements or practices are missing, which is embodiment and which is exactly what you said, which is grounding spiritual energies into physical matter. And another person who I've recently got into, I'm not sure if you've got into her work, she, a lady called Marion Woodman who is all about embodiment. She was a Carl Jung analyst. She talks a lot about embodiment and the shadow. She passed away not too long ago, but her work is just phenomenal. And I really resonate with the work of people who talk about embodiment because it's aligned with what I truly believe we're here to do, which is to ground spiritual energies, to ground spirit in physical matter and to spiritualize matter so that this universe can keep growing and become more self-aware. And I feel like humanity has been given a really important role by whatever you'd like to call that source energy. I normally, in the book I refer to it as the great spirit where you can use God or Brahman or the universe, whatever you want to say. I believe the task we've agreed to and we've been given by great spirit is to come here and be that link between spirit and matter. And that, to me, is manifest itself in the everyday, Monday life of human activities, spiritualizing everything we do. And how do we do that? Well, it's a lifelong work. It's a lot of work about, it requires a lot of self-work. And that's why I really resonate with Bernard Gunther and Marion Woodman and Shrio Abindu because they're honest in that clearing the vessel of all our traumas, of integrating our shadow and embodying our spirit is a lot of work, it really is. And so I guess that where it differs from some spiritual teachings like the New Age where it's all about ascension and going higher and it's nearly about denying the body and some religions have even, I guess, pushed abusing the body, you know, self-abuse and flagellation and it's been taught in human societies for a long time that the body is sinful, that the body is gross and we are raised in our societies with being taught a lot of shame about who we are and our bodies and I believe that's part of the agenda of the matrix control system to keep spirit disconnected from matter so that spirit, the spiritual part of ourselves can be continuously fed on by higher predatory beings. And so yeah, I guess to come back to that key point grounding of those spiritual energies and embodiment is what I believe we're here to do and in terms of how to do that and how that looks on a day-to-day basis, well, that's a long conversation. Yeah, I'm super happy that you brought up this embodiment so as you basically get, it's funny because it actually brings us even to Isaac Newton and we can talk about this third law of classical mechanics of motion where you talk about every action having an equal opposite reaction and that Sri Aurobindo says that as you go up, you equally go down so you go down to the depths of hell to go up to the heavens and that it has to be like this process. It's so funny how science and spirit are now becoming more and more talking about the same things and you brought this up in free range humans as well. The idea of the quantum theory being such a mind-blowing explosion of scientific advancement now where we realize that the whole idea of what is a multiverse and what is a many worlds and what is all that is and what is so similar to the Dao, God, Brahmin source, it's so interesting how these things can be portrayed as similar now as well. So the more that we kind of figure out where things like a Newton's third law of motion can actually work with the spiritual understanding or where the quantum theory can work with what is God, Brahmin, or Dao. I think that that understanding of also not only the human, the individual human developmental process but also the collective developmental process is just that's gonna be extremely helpful and I really appreciated how you brought both science and spirituality in. And I think that's gonna be one of the big differentiating factors for artists, authors, scientists, spiritual leaders is their ability to synthesize those two. Yeah, moving forward. It's a yin and yang of the big picture. I think that there is a buffet of union, of possibilities for people in the sense that, yes, this idea of embodying your process of spiritual self-work into the physical world and kind of basically, in a sense, you become blissed out, joyful, peaceful, calm, in constant harmony with your masculine and feminine. You have so many of these other ones that you brought up the shadow work and shadow integration, a connection to the wholeness of reality. To me, the idea is that it's a buffet of options as though people can take whatever paths they want up this big mountain. Do you see it as well like this big buffet of options that people can explore what works the best for their own process of spiritual self-work and embodiment? Do you feel similarly about that? Yeah, absolutely. In terms of what we're talking about here, like embodiment and shadow work, there's a lot of different modalities out there and practices that, I guess, reach the same sort of outcomes and talk about the same sort of things with just different titles and different languages. And these are just the terms that resonate with us. And I think, I really like how Krishnamurti talks about how truth is a pathless, what's the quote he used? Do you remember that one? Truth is a pathless truth. I've totally forgotten the quote. I think I'm aware. Let me see if I can find it. Truth is a pathless land, I think. I think that's the one I'm talking about. Anyway, it's a pathless land. I don't know if that's great, but he's talking about how there's no one system that can work for everyone. And I really believe that. That's what it is. It's so beautiful. That's a good one. Did I get the quote right? Truth is a pathless land. A dialogue with Judy Krishnamurti, yep. Yeah, okay, cool. Some of it didn't sound right coming out, but it was. So I really resonate with what he says because I believe that we're all being guided in our own way by our own highest spirit in a way that works for us. And when I think about my path to awakening and all the experiences I went through and the challenges and the suffering that I had to go through that was so unique to me and so specific to what I needed. And I look back at that and I'm like, there's definitely something guiding me through that process. There's something that guided me through that process, but also every time I was broken down and thought I wasn't gonna make it, something appeared, some bit of someone or a piece of information or something appeared that was exactly what I needed in that moment. And I can see now that those synchronicities were guiding me and that they're guiding you and they're guiding everyone else in their own unique way. And so that for me, when I think about that, that's why I called my website and blog Seeds of Awareness because I realized I can't start imposing what worked on me, on everyone around me, thinking that this is how you need to wake up and this is what you need to do and you need to focus on shadow work because you just become a tyrant and you start opposing your will. And so you have to honor the fact that you're on your own unique journey and that everyone else is on their own unique journey and just in my mind put seeds of awareness out there and some of the seeds you put out there might land on fertile soil and help someone transform and some might take quite a while to, they might be dormant for quite a while within someone's mind before they actually grow. And so I think that in terms of what you were talking before about that personal evolution that we're going through, for me, the higher or the more I've evolved, it's all been based around integration of the shadow. The more I've become self-aware of my blind spots and had the courage to sit with and confront my programming, my wounds, my traumas and to actually face those things that terrify me the most, the more I've done that, the more I've realized that there are hidden energies within those dark places within me that I'm afraid to go. And those energies, when you begin unlocking them all of a sudden this energy for daily life and this passion and this creative energy starts flowing out of you and all of a sudden as you clear your vessel of your shadow and more spiritual energy start anchoring into you, your awareness does really start to expand. And I believe what I say in the book is that we have the potential to access that universal mind, that universal consciousness whilst wearing physical matter and apply that universal consciousness to our mundane everyday life, our relationships, our jobs and what we do and we do the work of spirit that way. But, and so that's for me, it's that expanding of your awareness that is the sign that you're spiritually developing and I guess the side effects of that are definitely things such as feeling calmer, feeling more graceful, feeling more creative, feeling more joy, feeling more grounded even when the outside world starts to become a bit tumultuous. So shadow work is a really, really challenging and can be a very, very painful and extremely messy process. Like I don't want to sort of like tiptoe around that. It can be really, really tough and it's difficult to find a container in our lives where we can actually nurture ourselves and gives ourselves space to do that because this world we're in, apart from right now in this lockdown, it generally demands that we live at such a fast pace, such a hectic lifestyle that very few people feel like they can slow down and actually work on themselves. But when we do give us that space, it can be very messy but on the other side of that coin, the growth that we get from that is just so worth it in my opinion. Yeah. It's crucial. The economic machinery is just grrrr, just all the time running and so to take the time to work on ourselves in all of these, like you said, seeds of awareness, there's all these different paths, this big buffet of options for people to explore. Something that Dustin DePernis said on our show as well is that you do have to drill down to water, dig down to water because that's this idea of sampling, we can get caught up in just samples. Yes, yes, I love that one. And so basically, yeah, picking whatever works but another critical part is that the whole idea of, if I could only fix that outside of me, then I'll be happy. And it's now becoming more and more frequent that spiritual leaders are saying that we're overly obsessed with just saying that it's just this thing, it's my spouse, it's my job, it's the country that I'm in and the politics. It's all outside. Let me fix that thing outside. And yeah, versus the idea of doing the actual inner engineering. And one of the big things that comes up and you brought this up, you even had to go through a definition of it in your book, which I think is still extremely important. The idea of cognitive dissonance is such a prevalent thing that occurs anytime that we're presented with new information that doesn't fit into our worldview or cognitive schema. We're immediately trying to emotionally, stressfully respond to decline that new information versus if we took the time to be like, why is Matt currently telling me that he thinks this specific thing about me, Alan? You've been telling me you've only been sleeping six hours or you haven't been working out or you've been eating, not so healthy. And so you're basically helping me get, you're feeding me that information from a new perspective that helps me go through the process of actually becoming healthier. And it's a crucial thing to be able to do is to navigate the landscape of new information coming at you, don't have cognitive dissonance, be receptive towards what people are saying and potentially find new ways for you to pursue that your own evolution. You actually go through this in the book too, you give a massive list of health, detoxifying from negative forces, shattering the problem reaction solution, limbic fear-based trauma conditioning, and that's making us more susceptible to disease and stress. Embarking on quest, artistically express our unique gifts, eating while fasting, sleeping while exercising, stretching, moving our bodies, unsubscribing from alcohol, drugs, big pharma, the legacy archaic media enterprise, lame. I created a new acronym for it. I will no longer be calling it mainstream media. Mainstream media is now this. This is what MSM is now, in my opinion, is all these independent content creators and lame legacy archaic media enterprise is what that is. So you gave all these ideas about health, it's a paramount aspect of our moment to moment life. And I really appreciate how you went through that. You went through it in great detail about toxicity and even germ theory, you really took it to the next level like, yo, like you being in peak health basically makes you hella immune. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Did you want me to elaborate on that? Elaborate on it for us, yes. Yeah, yeah. I mean, when I first started Awakening, I mean, in my, feels like a past life, but for in my 20s, I was a professional athlete here in Australia. And whilst I was fit, I definitely wasn't very healthy. And one of the first things when I Awakened was realizing that I really need to cleanse the physical vessel that I'm in because whilst I'm addicted, I had a very long-term sleeping pill addiction. I used to take a lot of pharmaceutical drugs for pain and injuries that I used to get and anti-inflammatories, binge drinking on alcohol, party drugs, just processed foods and a lot of toxicity builds up in the body, which I explained in the book is, I believe is the actual foundation of the development of disease. And that's going into that theory is probably too much detail to go into right now, but I outlined it in detail in the book. And so I guess the first, for me, the first step was cleansing the vessel. But I also started realizing that there's different ways to change our habits. We can willfully try and change our habits, which is generally the way our society tries to, people in our society try to improve themselves, which I believe is coming more from that kind of masculine point of view, that masculine part of ourselves, which is very willful. So we try to change ourselves through discipline, through applying disciplined habits and stuff like that. And I think there's a place for that, but I think we can only sustain it for so long. And so I started realizing that if I wanna change these habits within myself and actually bring myself to a place of health and wholeness, I need to look to the deepest source of as to why these habits have actually came about. And for me, that's all the things that the book goes into, which is understanding the programming we're all subjected to growing up, both the programming within our families. We grow up and we become a product of our family environment and our social environment. But then before we can even think for ourselves, we're sent through the education system. And we're also bombarded by this relentless amount of subliminal mind programming from the lamestream media and from big corporations. A lot of big corporations specifically, junk food giants target children because they wanna create customers for life. So they advertise, they target their marketing towards children, which is really insidious. And then also a lot of our habits where we do them, whether it be through binge drinking or addictions or whether it be through overeating or even under-eating like things like anorexia, it's often to compensate for deep inner wounds that are in our shadow that we're not acknowledging. And what those wounds are for each person are so unique. It could be growing up in a fragmented family where there wasn't enough emotional and physical affection and love. Or it could be outright physical or emotional abuse. Or it could be just being things like being bullied at school or the amount of trauma we can experience growing up, especially when we're children and we're so sensitive is so widespread and only we can explore what we've personally gone through and probably in past lives as well. And that's what I believe is the true source of a lot of these issues that we see manifest outwardly. And so when I started trying to change my habits in my everyday life for quite a few years, it was through the Tony Robbins methods and affirmations and trying to willfully discipline myself. And it wasn't until years of that just not working for any lengthy period of time did I realize, oh my God, I need to get to the source of where my issues are coming from, which for me, most of my issues dated back to the first 10 to 15 years of my life in childhood. And I'm still working through a lot of them. And the other thing that really helped me was my relationship with my current wife. I think relationships are an incredible way to do shadow work because I think there's only so much we can do on our own because as self-aware and as introspective as we wanna be, it's difficult to, it's difficult. Yeah, you need to, yeah, exactly, great, yeah. Because it's so difficult to be objective when we're analyzing ourselves and trying to understand ourselves. So when someone else comes along, especially in an intimate relationship, when we inevitably start triggering each other in that relationship. And this can happen in friendships as well, but it definitely happens more intensely in romantic relationships. And so when I met my wife, we actually remarkably had so many of the same issues. We both had addiction to sleeping pills. She had experience without going into all of them. We had quite a few of the same issues and we started triggering each other a lot and we're both pretty fiery. We started challenging each other a lot. And that, we started realizing that where we were triggering each other was where the work was actually, yeah, where our work was needed. And in relationships, it can go either way. You can trigger each other and it turns into explosive fighting and you hate each other forever, or you can both take a pause and realize that what you're probably doing is shadow projecting on each other. And if we actually sit down and take a breath and take responsibility for our triggers and our shadow, the relationship can lead to incredible growth. And so Sandy called it trigger surfing. And it's a special skill to get accustomed to is that specific thing. When you have that experience with someone that's close to you in that relationship, can you navigate that calmly, skillfully? And see where that takes you. Huge. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I'm so grateful for the awareness my wife has brought to me about myself and we've been together nearly seven years. And I would say for the first four or five years, she, I was very resistant to what she was trying to help me see within myself and very, very stubborn and that eventually, and because we had so much love for each other and through her patience and constant support in helping me become more aware of myself, she helped me grow in so many areas that without that relationship, I know for a fact I never would have actually, I never would have fully grown in those areas. And I've still got a long way to go. I don't want to make it sound like I'm, but the difference is probably now I'm sort of like in more of a state of humility where I'm aware I've got a long way to go and I'm very receptive to being shown more about myself whenever I can. Whereas back then it was, I was very resistant to it. So the more we can see that process and relationships aren't the only way to grow. But once again, going back to that theme earlier in this interview, they're catalysts. Whenever we get involved in anything that creates that friction, it can be a catalyst for incredible growth. So I really believe in terms of shadow work, you don't really need to go through life seeking it. Life will constantly give you the situations, the people, the events that you need to trigger you within that they have the potential to catalyze your evolution. And it's up to you whether you surrender and work with those catalysts or whether you resist them and push them away. Because the more we resist them, all you're gonna do is send the message to the universe I need a bigger, more powerful powder to come my way. And so it's like, do we need the universe to give us a little tickle with a feather to kind of help us become more aware? Or do we need it to give us a big hit over the head with a sledgehammer? That's what I believe is the individual choice. Yes, so strongly said. Okay, so a crucial aspect to all these different people that we've been mentioning, and you talk about this in the book quite a bit as well, is the focus on childhood and that the more of a healthy upbringing that we have, it's more conducive for us to unleash our full gifts and self into the world. But also we have basically these instances in our lives which we could call like cornerstones, let's say, in our lives, whether it be at age two or age six or age 12 or age whatever, 18. And we have these instances that are called like cornerstones that pretty much a lot of our world view is kind of built up on top of these, okay? And now what we can do is when we're presented later in our lives with like you said, either the little tickle of a feather or the big hammer, like later on, if you don't respond to the tickle of the feather, that usually what that's trying to do is it's trying to tickle at one of those cornerstones. And so if we can recognize that that this is here to serve me and to help me evolve and that the more that I practice, like you said, clearing your vessel, you had so many instances of clearance for yourself to become a healthier, happier, more holistic person. You wrote a whole book on that and that all of us have all of these aspects to our lives that if we clear the vessel, it makes it easier for us to recognize the little tickle of the feather. Yeah. I want to talk about the, you talk about this in book, I love this a lot, the worldwide theatrical drama. And a lot of it is promulgated by the lame stream media that there is an enemy, this Machiavellian divide and conquer. And it's not just happening foreign geopolitically, but it's happening here domestically, left versus right, the U.S. And that we basically so many people in this like intellectual dark web and whatnot basically talk about it like being a fiddler on an A-frame roof that you stay right on the center of deep nuance and you don't slip down to either one of these extreme sides and that the more you can kind of straddle that, the better. I have friends now across different countries in the world, China, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Iran, just tons of different countries, they don't believe the things that they're taught about the U.S. being their enemy either. And I think that's very important, you brought that up too, that it's equally important that people around the world don't believe what their indoctrination of lame stream media is trying to push that there are all these enemies around the world. Yeah, expand on that for us. Yeah, well, I mean, in the book, I talk at length about what researchers call the matrix control system. And one of the main goals of this matrix control system is to keep us in constant division and conflict. And there's different levels of reasons as to why that is on the basic kind of like 3D level here in terms of like the global elite, the financiers, those who have gained an incredible amount of centralized power over this world, particularly over the last 100 years, those who run the basically control the economic system through the Federal Reserve banks have immense power and they clearly have an agenda for where they wanna take the world. And they're such a tiny percentage of people in terms of comparing with the billions of people around the planet that the only way they can control us is through dividing us. And so they subject us to an endless array of social engineering techniques, what you said before, which is the Machiavellian technique, which was coined by a dictator from Italy or somewhere like that back a few hundred years ago called Nicolai Machiavelli. And he talked about how dictators and people back then could control both sides of a debate and basically deliberately cause friction so that the public come to conflict and then they can act like the benevolent third party who has to come in with control systems and the laws and regulations to keep the peace and order. And you can see that- And funding both sides of the conflict. Yeah, they were fun both sides. They loved the conflict. So we can see that that happens still to this day, but even on a more intense level. So you look at this world and you see where divided on every level possible and there's constant issues coming up that are creating more conflict, whether it be to do with, you know, on a global level like there's climate change or there's vaccines or there's, you know, the feminist movement or there's the transgender movement or there's, I'm forgetting quite a few, but there's endless things that are really, you would call them trigger topics. They're constantly through their use of the lame stream media, this global elite, constantly putting these topics out into the public that they know get people emotionally rolled up and emotionally heated up and they create these two different opinions around them and they manipulate you to side with a certain opinion and then to fight with everyone else, especially on social media. They love us getting into conflict on social media and they do it with politics, especially with the left and right. And it's all theater, it's all the game. It's all a load of absolute crap and on the basic third density agenda, we have to wake up to that manipulation if we're gonna free ourselves from this control system because as long as we're staying divided, then we lose all that power because it's only in unity, it's only through connectedness and we are all connected on the deepest level anyway that we can have the power to overcome these systems we're in and they do it also with the generational gaps. They love turning the baby boomers onto the millennials and the other way around. You can seriously, they're trying to turn men against women and women against men. Religions against each other. Religions, yeah, differently. There are so many examples of divisions in this world. It is just insane. And even as you grow up, it begins when we grow up, where we're divided into classrooms, we're divided into different schools, we're divided into different states and all these different divisions are given identities and you're manipulated to identify with them and then to feel that whoever identifies with something else is your enemy. And so that is probably the cornerstone of what this control system gets its power from. And then on a higher level, it's my opinion that there are also hidden forces that- Before you get there, let me get, because you're about to get, I want to give the preface to where you're about to go. So there's the, on a quick, right before that, there's this idea of inclusive stakeholders versus self-dealing and that very closely resonates and that's promulgated right now by June Ewn and the Ewn Family Foundation. It's an excellent, check out inclusive stakeholders that service to other versus service to self, STO versus STS. And the general idea is that the more that you become in this state of unity consciousness, the more you spend time in the service to other mentality and the self-dealing idea is that you're gonna be spending more time trying to service to your own self and that the more that our social fabric is designed and architected around trying to get more children and adults to understand the inclusiveness, the interconnectedness of all beings, then we can more easily get to the service to others. Now you give this, okay, you have two acronyms that you use here. One is NHF, negative hostile forces and Bernard and Tom use these as well and OEs, which is occult entities. You said that these negative forces work through approximately four to 6% of the population, which are psychopathic people and that can file under this idea of a cabal or occult and that this is an idea of puppeting multinational corporate monopolies using Edward Bernays style tactics of sculpting the perspective of the masses. There's this incredible clip from my dinner with Andre, the movie where they also talk about the traumatized Stockholm syndrome population that decides to defend the own prison that they've built. And so elaborate on the higher dimensional forces channeling through these organic portals of people and yeah. Yeah, so I mean, yeah, these are the sort of topics that can seem sort of a bit out there for some people and a bit more like a sci-fi movie or something like that. But it's my belief, my experiences and researchers led me to the belief that the people that basically orchestrate and engineer this institutionalized control system we're in, which includes the government and military and economic systems and all those sort of things. I personally believe that they themselves are not on top of the hierarchy, the control system hierarchy. And they're either directly controlled or complete puppets to hidden non-physical forces that basically see themselves as the owners and controllers of humanity, kind of like how a farmer would see himself as the owner of his livestock. And that they don't, whilst the psychopaths they use as their puppets on earth have their own agenda, which is generally around power and control and complete narcissism and getting actual pleasure out of just being sadistic and controlling and traumatizing others. I believe that these higher predatory forces are basically running this control system as a farming operation in order to generate a certain energy that they feed off. And it goes back to that, what we're talking before about the analogy I was using earlier about the jungle, how all life is evolved by that friction between predator and prey. And that occurs on every level you see here in the physical world, whether it be the microscopic world, there's predator prey, the insect world, there's predator prey, the animal world, predator prey, the bird world, predator prey. But when you start realizing that our physical world is such a tiny bandwidth in terms of what reality actually is and our physical senses that we perceive the world through in these human bodies are so extremely limited in terms of the frequencies that are out there. So much more on the electromagnetic spectrum beyond just the visible light and so much more clairvoyance and extra sensory perception that exists outside the five senses. Absolutely. And I personally believe that as part of our, as part of this farming operation, our senses have been limited somewhat in terms of our psychic senses and what we're able to perceive. And so probably most likely through genetic modifications over quite a long period of time. And so in terms of outside this physical realm, we start heading into the astral and spiritual realms. And I believe that there's still that predator prey element that still exists there and that there are predatory non-physical forces that have cut themselves off from the divine source, which is where we all get our energy from. And so just as there are higher positive forces there are higher negative forces. And basically they need to manipulate other beings to manipulate their energy out of them to sustain themselves. Because as I said, they've cut themselves off from that original source of energy. They've basically taken a complete service to self-path and chosen the path of evolution towards ultimate, I guess you could call it evil or darkness. And so that's what I believe we start coming to the ultimate kind of, I guess, foundation of what this planet has been turned into. Which a lot of esoteric traditions, which the movies like the matrix we're referring to have all been talking about for a very long time. But again, I believe that those forces are actually a necessary part of the fabric of this reality and are necessary to be here. I don't believe they're out of place. I don't believe that- Yeah, yeah, they provide a service to the evolution. Exactly, I believe that in terms of the universe growing and evolving and in terms of earth growing and evolving and us being links or transducers between the spiritual and the physical world and embodying spiritual energies, I don't think that evolution would occur without those predatory forces catalyzing, constantly challenging us to grow and evolve. But those predatory forces are also, they're also, they've been given their own free will. So the harm and damage they can do is very real. And there's always a chance that the experiment that I believe the divine has created in terms of humanity being that highest link between the spiritual and physical, there is a chance that it may not succeed. And that the great spirit may have to start again. And possibly it's tried a few times here on earth and hasn't fully succeeded and has to press the reset button. And the more we identify with the spiritual, like in our physical bodies, that can be terrifying, that can be extremely confronting because whilst we're in the physical, with the human instincts and the cellular instinctive primitive desire to survive and keep procreating, that can be terrifying. But the more we identify with the spiritual part of ourselves, the more we can come to acceptance of that and realize that all we can do is give it our best shot. All we can do is through the best we can to be in service of what we believe our purpose is here. And there's a lot of things actually out of our control that we can only surrender to and have faith in. And I believe when we do that, it can take away a lot of fear. The more we identify with that spiritual part of ourselves, the more we are willing to confront and overcome the fear of death. But when we realize that we're actually being fed upon by these higher non-physical entities, we can start studying and realizing how they're doing it. We can study and realize how they're actually getting this energy out of us. And we can work on practical things day to day to stop that being siphoned from us. And that energy then rather than feeding them gets transmuted back into your own purpose and your own spiritual path through your creative output and your energy. You've all of a sudden got more energy to give to life because it's not being siphoned away from you. You've got more energy to give to your creative passions, to your family, to your work, to your self-work. And that's why I think it's important to discuss and understand what this is so that we can protect ourselves from it and pursue what we're here for. That's why you give this title too. Yeah, you give this title of free range humans. You say that life feeds on life just like we have our own little chickens and pigs and cows that we have under the impression that they are free to roam and range and then eventually to slaughter. And similarly humans getting this impression that we are free to roam and range but why does 50% of our waking hours go to work that we don't even love doing for money to impress people we don't even like that whole idea and then the like you said, if we're constantly bombarded with fear and trauma-based programming, we that life force energy, right? Just like you went to a chicken, you don't want your chicken to get extremely stressed and then eat it. Just like you don't want a human to be so, so stressed so you let them have the idea of free range. And then so I really appreciated that style of thinking. And just if people realize the life feeds on life idea, it's like humans not being at the top of the food chain is actually like cosmically beyond what is present in our limited perceptive three-dimensional reality. It becomes more and more something that we should probe at with science and explore that spiritually and scientifically because otherwise we have so much hubris and we just believe that we're at the top. We're at the top. We're so awesome humans. And you also went as far as, I think this is an important thing to bring up on just a trajectory basis. We talked about at the beginning what is the point but also how did this all even start because a lot of what we're made to believe is that it's 13.8 billion years old, four and a half billion years ago the earth is formed. We had this massive Cambrian explosion that happened a couple hundred million years ago after dinosaurs were absolutely going to roam the planet until finally asteroid came wiped them out 66 million years ago, which is what gave room for the human to end up evolving from, you gave this very interesting scientific example which I'd never heard of that at that about six million years ago or so Mark that there was a very serious fusion that the chimpanzee, the monkey has a 48 chromosomes and we wonder why do we have 46 and it's because they're two A and two B merged into R2. And I thought that was a very interesting, there was another protein that you mentioned in there. And I just thought that was very interesting. The idea of intelligent design is so easily just discredited but I think it's still important we can scientifically understand better and better and those two realities can coexist. You get what you're thinking and then like what is the, there's so many people that talk about this whole egg yolk this whole big chess game, that idea of the humans and you went into ancient Sumerian culture as well and how they had talked about being gold and other life force energies being mined. There's very interesting things that you piece together but that was great. Yeah, I mean these are just the topics that I love exploring because I find the more that I delve into the nature of this reality and who we are and what this world is that we're living in the more I sort of understand the more I understand the more I can sort of work towards actually like solutions for freeing ourselves and the problem with a lot of people is that a lot of these topics and a lot of these areas are very confronting and they don't want to look into it they want us to keep living in their little naive bubble and going through life with a very small range of perceptions and that can kind of like that phrase ignorance is bliss can give us this little naive bubble of bliss but it also leaves us extremely vulnerable and because our naivety leaves us very vulnerable and exposed to manipulate being manipulated and I think it's crucial for humanity to overcome that manipulation and that's why in the book I really try to be as open and upfront about confronting the idea that we're actually, as you said, we're not on top of the food chain we're not this apex species that we've been told that we've been told we are we're not in this incredible safe and secure system and world and a lot of people have been told that they're in and that the faster we can confront that and realize the incredible manipulation that has been done to us and that we're actually being fed upon whilst as I said, it's very confronting and very terrifying the faster we can, the more we can confront that the more the spell that's been put over us can start to break and we can start to actually access the true part of ourselves and access that part of ourselves that's on the other side of the shadow and the things that terrify us to confront and in terms of what you were talking about before it's, I love exploring our ancient history because there's so many pieces of the puzzle that are a part of that and in particular looking at our DNA I believe, as I explained in the book and as you said before that there's a lot of evidence that our DNA has been tampered with and that genetic modifications have actually taken place and in particular the merging of the chromosome 2a and 2b which have been merged together as you said in chromosome, human chromosome number two and it's human chromosome number two that gives us this incredible ability to think like we do, this intellect that we have that really does separate us from all other animal life on this planet and but it's how chromosome 2 came about which is really, really interesting because for it to have happened by chance for the chromosome 2a and 2b which are present in chimpanzees to have merged together like they do in humans it's just, the probability is just so ridiculous it probably wouldn't have happened in millions or billions of years and the way it's happened so perfectly really points to some intentionality behind it and then there's our ability to talk no other animal species on this planet can talk like we do and we're told it's just been part of our natural evolution but we really haven't been here that long for unbelievable adaptations and advancements like that to happen and it's our Fox P2 protein that has also undergone crazy adjustments for us to be able to communicate like you and I are right now that just really are worth looking more into there's enough anomalies there there's enough craziness about that that we gotta go, well, this is worth us exploring more and using the brilliance of science to find answers which many people are doing outside the mainstream and the camera explosion is another one of those moments that science is trying to be like how did that massive explosion of life happen in such a short period of time? Oh, all of the like Graham Hancock's massive explorations into archaeology because there's so many things like goblaclitepe that's just completely shattering our perceptions of who we were even just 12,000 years ago. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And so for me when I look into all this stuff it just constantly keeps pointing back to the same thing that there is something manipulating us there's something controlling us and there's something that doesn't want us to know who we are and our history and where we came from it wants us to keep us in a very limited range of perception and it wants to keep us extremely ignorant so that we can be continuously manipulated and exploited. And as I keep coming back to the same point it's very confronting to face that and face that possibility because we've been so utterly programmed into this illusion of freedom and to this illusion that we're living in this safe and secure world that we can trust the leaders around us and trust these systems around us and to have that illusion broken is utterly terrifying for most people. I don't know if it's just me that's looking at people becoming hardcore on breaking free of the Matrix control system right now. I don't know if it's just me but it feels like given the Jeffrey Epstein and what happened in the end of 2019 and given the coronavirus and given kind of some of this whole meeting it's now becoming public with Davos is now meeting publicly, it's still privately but now it's not necessarily like Bilderberger Trilateral Commission but now it's like, oh yeah, we meet every year. Anyway, so there's a lot of things where people like James O'Keefe and Alex Jones are not kind of like going in to get these pieces of content that share with people. So I feel like there's this big like movement towards what you're talking about regarding people waking up to that makes sure it's control system, yeah. Yeah, absolutely and it's, I think what's happening is that where all the esoteric traditions and even religions have talked about this time of transition, this point that we're heading towards where you could basically call it our last chance or opportunity to become as a species of humanity become that link between the spirit of the world of spirit and matter before there's possibly another race set or a new sort of experimental or attempted it is done. I wanna ask you this question. You think that the new world order totalitarian AI tiptoe that's kind of happening with brain computer interfaces, 5G technologies, genetic engineering, all these types of things. This could be one of those bottlenecks or like Fermi filters or resets as people call in the evolution of consciousness where if we're not, which could have happened in the past as well where we're not spiritually or morally or ethically advanced enough and then we have these oh shit moments. So I wanna play with you on this as these major spiritual and esoteric teachings talk about these moments. I wanna say that it seems like you did in your book quite a bit and I know David Eich is right now doing this quite a bit as well. My thing is that I think that like science it done spiritually, ethically, morally, philosophically aware and advanced can do things like take your child that is about to get some sort of like a single point genetic mutation and they're gonna have Down syndrome or some sort of an ailment in their life and we can be smart enough to eradicate that. And so I think that of course with things like 5G you shouldn't just have this fake race idea economically and put it out there without having these longitudinal tests over five years, 10 years on and we already saw some on mouse studies and what has happened. So I do think the idea of like slow down spiritually advance yourselves then release technologies is very important but I don't necessarily can't I can't really blanket say that it's all only bad and I just wanna hear what you think about the possibility of evolving aware enough to make these technologies in a way that actually serves the evolution of consciousness rather than traps us in that matrix control system through the brain computer interfaces and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. Now, absolutely. I mean, when you look more into the nature of these forces that run this control system you realize that being cut off from the I guess the original great spirit creative force they don't have any ability to create they don't have any creative imagination. So what they do, what they tend to do is exploit the incredible human ability for creativity and imagination. So especially within their institutions they will get people into them that create all these amazing technologies create all these things that can connect humanity more than ever before and can actually be used for amazing purposes but then they hijack them and subvert them into technologies that they can then use to control. I mean, 5G, I don't have any problem with an extra more bandwidth internet that connects us faster and allows us to do more incredible things but there's no reason it can't be rolled out through fiber optic cables for example and have the benefits of it but without the radiation that the towers are gonna be shooting off but that won't happen. Untested millimeter radium. Untested, yeah. But it's because and I don't necessarily have a problem with smart devices that are smart and I guess make our lives more easier on a day-to-day basis so that we have to do less laborious mundane things and we can focus more on creative outlets but so these are things that I believe humans have created because of our ingenuity and our creative abilities but then are hijacked by these forces who manipulate them to serve their own agenda which is all about control and all about centralization of power so rather than using 5G and these smart devices and all these other things to help improve our lives they wanna use it to centralize power and so the more we can become savvy about that and not throw the baby out with the bathwater because technology has made life a lot better but when we're not aware of these forces who wanna exploit it for their own purposes we're just going to keep blindly stepping into the kind of trap the traps of their setting and but the thing is the go back on the point you said earlier the more that they try to push this control system out the more in our faces it's becoming the more and more people are waking up and the more and more people are stopping and actually asking the questions what is going on in our world and that's where we're at right now I believe where a lot of people are finally at that point where the spell that's been put over them for so long is starting to break and they're actually going what is going on? There's something going on and that's where people need to be and in terms of whether enough people will wake up fast enough to move this in another direction or move these technologies in a direction to actually serve humanity rather than control us it's hard to say it's kind of coming down to the wire a little bit and time will tell and all we can keep doing is what you're doing is doing your absolute best to get information out there and give people the best chance they can to have to make informed decisions and giving people practical advice on how to develop themselves that's all we can really do and I wanna also say that I think that specifically entrepreneurship is such a massive catalyst of the world that our hearts know is possible because if we continue on the comment section is kind of like all that you said in your book, right you can give this example it's the Zazen water filter, right? And I looked them up and they're very interesting company with this 10 stage water filtration process and the idea is that like if you yourself believe and if other people believe that their water supply has fluoride and other chemicals that are harmful to their health and at first of all, become a scientist and begin testing your water and in documenting it putting the videos up on YouTube, sharing that step two, go to your spring like you do your local spring and get water or get the water filter like through Zazen but what happened was the guys or girls the entrepreneurs at Zazen decided enough is enough we are going to make our own water filter we are going to become entrepreneurs we are gonna start selling this to people and that's an example I think of people building the future of light that they want rather than the dark and I think the same thing is true with all of the genetic engineering brain computer interfaces 5Gs, blah blahs all of those things AR, VRs that are happening even cryptocurrencies the idea of a fully decentralized digital currency it sounds incredible but again it's important like are the people that are at the center of that truly spiritually awakened to the complete decentralization of it where you and I are still not being tracked in some sort of a way whereas cash has way less of ability to be tracked so I think it's such a entrepreneurs can and will save the world if we really give them the resources to artistically express themselves to make that light world that we know is possible how do you feel about that? Yeah absolutely like every issue I see popping up in the world whether it be fluoride in the water or whether it be the radiation from 5G towers or so many other things that people are concerned about there's also entrepreneurs creating incredible solutions for it I mean I'm already hearing about fire radiation blocking clothing that's been developed there's people I know of one person obviously it requires a bit of money to do this but he's built his house with a Faraday cage like structure within the whole house so the whole house is like a 5G blocking house and there's other people who are painting their walls with organized crushed up organized stone in the paint that is a 5G blocker and so there's incredible solutions to a lot of the problems that we face but as you said we just need to support these people who are doing it and it does it comes from entrepreneurialism people coming from their own place of creativity and problem solving and that is definitely what this control system wants to stamp out it wants all of the creative output and energy of humanity to be controlled by these massive multinational corporations so that the most brilliant scientists the most brilliant engineers the most brilliant developers and technicians and philosophers and thinkers are being controlled and contained within these corporations and have to are being forced to sing from the same song sheet and are being often they're intimidated into doing so because they're intimidated through having their reputation slanted or they're intimidated by having their funds taken away or maybe their family is threatened or they're threatened and so there's all sorts of ways the system will try to intimidate the most brilliant thinkers and developers of humanity into being in line with the mainstream consensus and that's why it comes down to both the entrepreneurs tapping into their own inner courage to overcome that and not let that stop them from doing what they believe is the right thing to do but then on the other hand us as people supporting them as well and sharing their information and looking more into what they're doing and buying their products that we believe in because the amount of people out there finding solutions is just endless and it's really what this if there's any going to be a revolution I believe it's going to be a grassroots one that's built from person to person. Yeah, I'm so happy that resonated with you like that. It's going to be a crucial part of us moving forward into the light is supporting the creative entrepreneurial creations into that space. A bunch of other thoughts that I want to list out from what you wrote and then I'll hear your thoughts on it. So a lot of what we were talking about is people waking up in this major control system have believed that one of these most pivotal or instrumental events that occurred on the way was the assassination of JFK in 1963 who was trying to blow the lid on the Cabal Control Unit cult and that one of the most common things that people like Eric Weinstein has been talking about which is very interesting is this idea that the purchasing power has been just dropped down the toilet we had Tim Blake on our show recently who's also talked about this where he in 1970 was super able to and all of his friends were super able to on just one father, the male in the family working on one salary was able to support the wife, the mother to stay at home, raise the two children they were able to have a house plus another house in the woods plus a boat at that lake house on one salary. Now both parents are working and they can barely make ends meet for even one property and the general idea and I can put in right here the chart here, the GDP since 1970 has just been continuously going up I mean while median male income has just been flatlining and where is all of the wealth is going to the concentrated 1% of people and so you gave these examples the government has been responsible for over 200 million deaths in the last 100 years which is insane to think about and you can think about Stalin, Len and the Gulag you can think about Mao, you can think about Pol Pot, Hitler, you can think about all of these types of people over the last 100 years. I wanna touch on this, the idea that it's possible that a future where if you look so far out this is kind of what I like doing as well I like thinking about things like what is possible with future technologies that are so advanced like what happens when we get beyond the speed of light is this actually a physical constraint? What happens when we unlock our own source code of this reality and understand it at that most fundamental physical level? Can we have warp drives, Star Trek? Can we have replicators that do the mass energy equivalents equals MC squared and can turn energy into mass into food and then is that the obsolesion then of money? Transporters for moving from one place to another like that. So I really, really, really just adore the idea of both exposing the dark and helping people awaken to that like you do and also empowering the light and having some sort of a goal, right? This big picture goal in computer science is called the Monte Carlo Tree Search that you go and you find something at the end of this tree branch like a fruit and you say that that's the fruit that I want to work towards or that's the fruit that the collective wants to work towards and that then you get all these entrepreneurial creative solutions going towards that. So in a sense it's this big merging of science and spirituality. We have now for the longest time had ancient spiritual texts that you, that we talked about at the beginning and that you listen in your book that have been talking about what's God, what's Dao, what is Brahmin, what is all that is or source. And now science coming up with quantum theory also similarly this universal wave function, this many worlds understanding, parallel universes, multiverse, the idea that consciousness is so inextricably intertwined with matter and with our life outcomes that revealed in the double split experiment which we've had several shows on and I'm glad that you brought that up as well. It does feel like the more that we live in unity consciousness and the more that we ground that here and embody that into matter, the more we can create the divine life on earth the less we can be under the forces of the matrix control system and the cabal and the negative occult entities and that this is just the most beautiful possible thing imaginable is literally this reality and that we are in a state of constant exploration evolving and that this is just a beautiful nature of reality. And let's hear your thoughts on kind of what I've said that you're closing thoughts and then we can wrap because this has been so awesome, Matt, I'm pumped. Yeah, let me know what do you think? Yeah, I mean, it is really important to be, I guess using the power of our imagination to ponder on the sort of world that we want to bring about and because without going into like the new age has kind of manipulated that whole reality creation concepts but I do believe that we do create, our mind is very powerful and we do have a big influence on the way reality works through our beliefs and our perceptions. And I think that that's also another thing that's hijacked by the control system which is why they pummel our minds with an endless array of dystopian dark movies and TV shows that show a future dystopian world with like a totalitarian control system and because that's the world they wanna bring about, that's the world they want to pummel into our minds so that we help actually create that as well. So we sort of subconsciously just think it's inevitable. So I recommend kind of staying away from those sort of things as much as possible, not especially controlling what information reaches your mind, being discerning with what TV shows, what movies you watch and especially things like the mainstream media, that's obviously a given. Lame stream. Yeah. Lame stream media, sorry. But in terms of imagining the exact world that we wanna bring about a world that's based on a deeper spiritual connection and purpose and values of truth and connection and service to others, how that looks on the day-to-day basis, it can be challenging to actually envision. There's actually one, I'm not sure if you've heard of a guy named Michael Talinger. Yeah, yeah, Ubuntu, yeah, yeah, he's so good. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, brought that up. I bring that up now because in terms of explaining that kind of what you'd call a utopian world or something like that, he's actually done an incredible job. So he's proposed this entirely new system that he calls Ubuntu that's based on, not based on an economical model at all, it's based on what he calls contributionism. And in his book Ubuntu, the way he outlines it and the world he describes that he envisions coming about, I just really recommend people reading that just to get that image in their minds. Like it's too many details for me to explain here, but it's, I remember reading that, being like, oh my God, I've never even thought a world like this is impossible and I'm so glad that that possibility is just planted in my mind now. Now, I'm always cautious about saying go follow movements like that because unless the people in those sort of movements are grounded in sincere self-work, are grounded in shadow work, are focused on their own inner journey rather than just purely focused on external changes that they're trying to make, I can guarantee that there will be forces that will divide that group within and conquer it and it's subverted to another agenda. So I don't think any movements, any things are gonna work unless everyone involved is involved in sincere self-work and shadow work so that their blind spots can't be manipulated and exploited by forces that are so good at that. So that's why I always keep coming back to the inner journey but in terms of actually envisioning a world, like you said, that Ubuntu movement I believe has got a really, really fantastic vision that I highly recommend reading his book or he's got a, he outlines it also in a series on Gaia.com that is really, really good if you're a bit more of a visual person. Contribution, the Venus project is also another very interesting one. Yeah, that's another really good one. Yeah, absolutely. You also mentioned earthships in your book. Yeah, so I'm really, that's another thing, like the more that these issues keep coming about in our world and one issue, so the more the solutions keep pumping up and one of the biggest issues I've seen pop up in, especially in the last 50 to 100 years is our complete other dependence on multinational corporations for our resources. So we now depend completely on corporations for our energy, for our food, for our shelter, all the basics of basically human living that in a past time would have been up to our own kind of independence to acquire. And there's good and bad so that the good is that it's, we're comfortable and that we don't have to build all our own things and put out all our daily energy into survival. But the downside is the centralization of control that has come about with that. And so this concept has been developed by this guy named Michael Reynolds over in America and he's developed these things called earthships which basically these houses developed from, they're created from fully recycled ingredients and they, once you're in it, they're completely disconnected from the grid. Once you're in it, they produce their own energy, their own food, their own water, just the most ingenious design. I elaborate them on in the book and these are the things we need to be looking into and supporting as much as we can. So that's sort of a world I envision as a world based on true sustainability, not the sustainability that's been hijacked by the kind of climate change movement that's not really about sustainability. That's about centralization of control. I'm talking sustainability where each person is given through things like earthships and through things like teaching about permaculture and growing their own food and capturing their own, like getting their own fresh water supply gives us true independence and autonomy in our lives. And these things, as I said, they're already being developed. We just need to support them. They're not gonna be presented to us on the mainstream, on the lame stream, nightly news. They're not gonna be on the front page of the newspaper. In fact, the amount of resistance Mike Reynolds and his team has got from councils and governments in terms of trying to stop him doing what he's doing, which was just developing off-grid sustainable houses has been mind-boggling and a clear attempt to stop his progress. But so he's been relentless. So I love seeing people like him and Michael Talinger of Ubuntu and all these other unbelievable entrepreneurs who are providing us with solutions. They may not be perfect. They may need tweaks. They may need adjustments, but they're there. They're right in front of us. And I think those solutions are always gonna keep popping up. All we need to do is keep doing the self-work in our daily lives so that we have the courage to make the changes in our lives that we need to make. And then that will inspire our families, inspire the people around us and that creates this kind of ripple effect throughout humanity. But it keeps, I keep trying to, whenever I'm talking about these things, I always try to bring the message back to self-responsibility because it's so easy for us to, for people to get so fixated on the external fixes that they forget the responsibility they have in that equation. And so what happens is we're either, if we're so focused on the external, we're either waiting for saviours and waiting for people to come save us or when that doesn't happen, we just instantly fall into victim mode. But when everything we do is based on self-responsibility, it's really nice when external solutions come along but we're not relying on it. We're not dependent on it. And it can be challenging when stuff comes along that is basically to send our life in a turmoil like this current COVID-19 crisis, but we don't fall into victimhood because of it. We just keep moving forward with what we know is what we need to do in our day-to-day lives. So I hope that answers that okay. Yeah. I have two questions that I like asking on the way out to our guests. Would you say that this is a simulation of source? Would you say this reality is a simulation of source? Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of things pointing towards that, isn't there? Like you can imagine this human body is like a virtual reality suit for spirit. And I've tried virtual reality before for the first time a year ago and went into a simulated world. And all I had on was goggles and earplugs and gloves. And so I didn't have every one of my bodily sensors hijacked just those main ones. And I was fully in another world. I was so in that world, it was so believable. When things came at me, it felt real. So the idea that that's already happened to a degree, I'm very open to that possibility. The human body in a lot of ways feels like a virtual reality suit, yeah. Yeah. So that's a great way to put it. And then the second question is what do you think is most beautiful? Ooh, it's hard to narrow that down to a single thing. Are you just talking about in life or just anything? Anything, what is most beautiful to you? I, for me, the thing that I always just, I mean, awe and inspired by is the human spirit. I just think the human spirit outside genetic psychopaths, that is the human spirit, especially when we're not in a state of stress and fight, flight, and activated reptilian brain, which certainly doesn't bring out the best part of ourselves. But when you see the true human spirit, it is just so like, it kind of like makes my eyes well. I feel a little bit, it's just like, so much love and care in it, and so much, we just wanna be connected with people, and we wanna help people, and we wanna create, and we wanna experience life. And I see, I'm always on the lookout for that human spirit coming about out of people. It comes out in times of crisis, it comes out in the most unexpected times. I sometimes love going, you know, I've been to a number of music festivals, and my main motivation, though is I love seeing people away from civilization, camping, and you just see their true essence come out, and it's really so beautiful. So that, if I had to choose one thing, I'd say I'd think that is it. Yeah, it's beautiful. And that's often, that's actually what motivates me a lot as well, is I just think that this human speech, this human family is something worth really fighting for. Like, I think we're incredible. We're totally programmed to think the opposite of out of ourselves. We're programmed to feel disempowered and that we're pointless, like mainstream science basically tells us we're random. We're random bunches of cells that have come together and we're random lumps of flesh, and when we die, that's it, and we're all separate from each other, and we're here just to toil and labor, and there's no higher purpose, and it's very disempowering, that the more you challenge that and look into who's telling us that and why they're telling it, the more you realize what they're covering up, the truth is extremely empowering, and it's like, wow, we're actually here for a really important purpose, we're really amazing, and our potential is just ridiculous. So that's sort of, those beliefs fill me with a lot of energy, and the more I learn about the true human spirit, the more I wanna really fight for it. I love this, Matt. Thank you for watching. No worries. It's an epic show. Yeah, no, thank you so much. I, yeah, we, as I said at the beginning, we really went deep fast, and I love that, and sort of kept, maintained the same level of depth all the way through. No easing, it was sort of like a book. And I love it, like as you know from the book, that the book is like that, like the whole book is delving into anything and everything, and I love talking about these things, it fills me with energy, and I love what you're doing, and really appreciate you taking the time to have me on, and also reading the book, it really means a lot. Yeah, you did a really good job piecing together. This is again what we were talking about, these entrepreneurs, these artists, these spiritual leaders, can we really architect that social fabric that inspires people to want to actualize their gifts, like you did where you took this time to put together some beautiful artistic expression that then is going to go resonate with so many people and that resonate with me so much that I had to do, read it in one day, and then interview you afterwards. So I've loved this, this has been awesome. Everyone, again, Matt's website, seedsofawareness.com.au, that link is in the bio below, you can find his book, Free Range Humans, exposing the matrix control system and awakening your true self on the website as well. Also, his other book is there as well, 365 days of wholeness, and he has a range of other materials as well under it's the resources tab, right? Is where you have a bunch of these materials. Yep. And there's a resources section with a whole lot of different topics ranging from esotericism, spirituality to the new old order agenda to science, to personal development and just all the main resources that have had probably the biggest impact on me over the last 10 years listed there. So definitely check that out. Exactly. And that is all, do support Matt, support your other people in your communities and your other friends that are artists, that are entrepreneurs, they're spiritual leaders, support them, help them flourish. You can support our show, all of our links are in the bio below where you can support us. And that is all, go and build the future everyone, manifest your dreams into the world, get to that unity consciousness, ground that, embody it in the physical reality. We love you very much. We'll talk to you soon. Peace.