 President Mohammad Buhari's ally, Buba Galadima, has said that 447 recipients of the recent national awards should be in prison. And the ADC set to flag off campaigns in Kogi. October 20th, as former party chairman Rao Fumoso alleges plans for fresh presidential primaries. This is Plus Politics. I am Mary Anacom. Buba Galadima, a former close ally of President Mohammad Buhari, has criticised the National Honours Awards recently given out to some Nigerians by President Buhari. According to Galadima, 440 out of the 470 recipients of the award should be in prison because they were doubtful characters. The new Nigerian People's Party chieftain added that none of the individuals given national honours was of impeccable character. He suggested that the awards should be given to people who he, who retired without blemish and had not been questioned by either the EFCC or the ICPC. Recall that President Buhari on Tuesday conferred national honours on 447 Nigerians tagged friends of Nigeria. Recipients of the national awards included leaving and deceased Nigerians and some foreigners. Joining us to discuss this is Achike Tude. He is a political analyst and of course he is here with us. Good evening Mr Tude. Thank you so much for joining us. It's a pleasure, Mary Ann. Great. I'm sure you were part of all those who watched live as Mr President handed out these awards to several Nigerians. It did, of course, when the first lease was leaked many people had criticised the fact that the Minister of Information or Minister for Information was on that lease, especially the students who have been home for more than eight months. And at the time we did get a response from the federal government saying that that's not the original list and when the updated list would come out we would be singing a different song but when the original list came out we still saw the Minister of Information and several other people who made that list. But let's start with those who were deserving of these national honours Mr Tude. Well national honours are a recognition of the people who have been outstanding in their commitment to the Nigerian nation. People who have lived by example and the people whose lives should be omitted by the rest of the citizens. And the essence of that is to recognise a character, hard work, dedication, commitment to social transformation as a basis for national development. And it is good to do such things because it encourages other people to strive for higher virtues. And when you have people who want to learn, want to emulate noble characters then the possibility of those people wanting to live the kind of lives that those other people have lived can only augure for the general welfare and progress of the state. So it's a very good thing to give recognition to who recognition is due. But obviously we have seen over the years the kind of disinterest that Nigerians seem to have been showing for quite some time with regards to those who are on the list of merits and those who are giving these national honours. Because in most cases, apart from the controversy of the people, of those behind the award, not doing their due diligence, we have had instances where people who had long been dead were also brought up to receive national honours. And the people who had been given higher honours like the GCFR, or people who are now being given awards that are even lower than what they had previously been given. So that gives you an idea of the selection process by those who are in charge of ensuring that the right kind of people are given awards. So if they can get it so wrong in the areas that I have mentioned, then you can actually begin to question the credibility of the awards themselves. Let's talk about... Many people applauded the fact that Adedevo, who should have been honoured even before the exit of President Goodluck Jonathan, finally got that award. Now we all know what she did for the country and even lost her life in the process. We saw the likes of the Deputy Secretary General of the United Nations. I mean... Jay... I forgot. I'm losing her last name. Anyway, we also had... we also had in Gaza, Conjue Wala. We saw the man who protected Christians from being mobbed in the North. We also saw a few good Nigerians. We saw some of our musicians who were given some reward. But let's go back to what Puba Galadima said. He talked about the fact that the recipients that he saw were boys of Mr. President. He said that this was an award for the boys as opposed to people of impeccable character. Now we also saw governors being awarded. And this also raised eyebrows. For example, we had Governor Kowa, who was the Vice Presidential Candidate of the PDP. We also saw the Governor of Cross River State, Benedict Ayade. And of course, that also raised his questions as to what exactly were the yardsticks for which people were measured to be given this particular honours. Well, Puba Galadima has given a stake on that. Obviously, the names of people you mentioned that Nigerians actually believe are deserving are exempt from the names of the dociple. He said from dociple that he said have questionable characters and lack integrity. So obviously, people like Okonjewala and the other people that you mentioned, the man who protected Christians against the onslaught by bandits and by terrorists, the entertainers that we have in Nigeria that have brought so much joy to Nigerians and made the country proud. All of these people, I believe, would make the list of those that Puba Galadima was talking about that these are the people that are truly deserving of this award. In this award, for instance, you talked about the Minister of Information, who is not very well loved by Nigerians, whom a lot of Nigerians see as somebody who never walked to talk. From the moment he came to government where he was now continuing with the propaganda that led to the ouster of the former president and has not really enamored himself to Nigerians. Then you also have the Minister of Labor, Chris Ngige, who has been in the eyes of the storm, especially because of the way he has handled the ASU issue, ASU, the investment students that have been on strike, and some of these comments he made in the past put to an outright falsehood when he said that the doctors who were on strike at a particular point in time can continue with the strike. They can leave the country if they want because Nigeria has, you know, more doctors, has enough doctors, which is an absolute lie. The drug patient ratio in Nigeria is one of the worst in the country and doctors and medical personnel keep on leaving. We also have the former, you know, Chief Justice of Nigeria who left in a cloud of controversy when he was accused by his fellow justices of the Supreme Court in a non-president manner, you know, of outright corruption. In fact, his fellow justices of the Supreme Court actually called for the anti-corruption body to investigate the former Chief Judge of the Federation. So when you have glaring cases like we have, like some of these ones I have mentioned, for instance, when, you know, the government has to err, the government has to err on the part of caution. But obviously, the government did not do that. And why did the government not do that? Because this is not a government that values integrity and character, you know, as a basis for national development. And I will say, so look up, for instance. Mr. Institute, there are people who differ, who beg to differ on that because, again, let's not forget that this government, this government came in, you know, with that zero tolerance for, you know, corruption they talked about. In fact, he took the presidency six months to be able to pick members of his cabinet saying that he was looking for men who were upright and men of integrity. So when you say that this government, you know... Mary Ann, Mary Ann, under this government, Nigeria is losing four to seven hundred thousand barrels of crude oil every day. Under these government ships, you know, super tankers are bathing in the nation's waters and are siphoning the oil of this country. And the military forces, you know, find themselves also embedded with the criminality that is going on. This was, you know, a statement that is credited in a live interview to Konto Kampolo, you know, a man who the government has already given a contract to try to protect the nation's pipelines. You know, and the fordrance of that, he was able to tell us about the atrocious activities of people who were stealing Nigeria's oil, you know, without consequences. Are we talking about, under this government, when the anti-corruption czar, the Magu, Ibrahim Magu, was accused by the same government that appointed him of high hand of corruption and high handedness, you know, in the treatment of corrupt cases in the country. And as he was being accused, that the panel settled for him, he was also accusing the chief justice, I mean, sorry, the minister of justice and attorney general of the Federation of Corruption. So the two most important personnel, apart from the president, who are supposed to be fighting corruption, were accusing one another of corruption. Under this government, you realize what happened, some of us are aware about what happened with the general of the Federation who stole over 100 million naira. So what are we talking about? Look at the report of Amnesty International. I understand that you want to also play the devil's advocate, but you cannot do that in the midst of glaring evidence and facts, you know, that all of us have seen. Amnesty International, obviously, has continued to list Nigeria as one of the most corrupt countries in the 160th administration came to power in 2015. So this is not about somebody making up stories. These are empirically verifiable evidence of the corruption and graph that is going on in this country. And so when you look at the political elites and who are the people that are heavily involved in the political elites, the civil servants and the politicians, and I wager a bet that if we had a proper anti-corruption agency in this country, and if we had proper leadership that was truly disdainful of corruption in Nigeria, most of these people that you are seeing today, and I agree with Boba Galadema, are people that should end up in prisons. Are you talking about the political elites, a country that is blessed the way Nigeria has been blessed? And we know that corruption is endemic. When corruption is endemic and corruption is systemic. And those people who are involved in corruption are the politicians who are in a position to affect, you know, positive leadership and transparent change in governance today. And so when you talk about endemic corruption, the people who are in a position to actually conduct themselves in transparent manners are the ones that are perpetrating this corruption and they are the politicians. There is no government to go to today, as far as I'm concerned, today that is not involved in corruption. You know, this is my own personal. So it's not just this is my own personal. So how do corrupt people choose people that are of impeccable character in the words of Boba Galadema? Because, I mean, from all that you've said, it looks like every single hand is stained with some form of corruption. No, not every single hand. There are some exceptional people that Boba Galadema mentioned, and I also agree with, and there are so many of them. The entertainers, for instance, who have brought so much joy and glory to Nigeria. The sportsmen and women who have done wonderfully well, people like Tobias Mosa, they are the characters. But not the politicians, not the politicians. Facial art is also in that midst. And I think that because corruption is endemic and systemic, it is difficult to isolate any politician from the corruption that is taking place in this government. If you want to look deeper, you realize that these people are not people of impeccable character. That is my own take about what is going on, are we saying, if you are going to, for instance, isolate people like Igigay, isolate people like Facial Art, isolate people like, and some of these other people, then you cannot say that corruption is systemic and endemic. It is systemic, it's endemic. That means that it is everywhere, in virtually every department, every ministry, every sector in this country. And that is unfortunate, but not all Nigerians have corrupt. We have had instances of Nigerians who have recovered hundreds of thousands of dollars and pounds in the airport, in taxes, in KK Marwas, 500,000 here and there, 1 million here and there. And this people went to look for the owners and went out publicly to report their fine to the media so that the owners could be trapped down and their money is given back to them. So these are Nigerians and there are so many of them on the streets of this country. There are so many of them in the state organizations across the country. So it is not every Nigerian that is corrupt, but the politicians that are being given national honours are being given national honours on the basis of the of the job that they have done for the government, jobs that are not that do not necessarily with the greater interest of the Nigerian state. So when Buber Galadim said that these are jobs, these are awards that are given to boys, the president, who did certain things that were not necessary in the interest of the nation, I would not disagree with Buber Galadim he knows he is in the mix, he is a politician like him and so he knows what he is talking about and because corruption is systemic and endemic I also know that most of these people especially the political class who have kept on disappointing us time and time again are not deserving of these awards that are being given to them. Let's talk about the reputation of these honours, these national honours going forward. Because Buber Galadim had also mentioned that he, President Bahairi had in time past criticised former presidents Goodluck Jonathan and Ulussi Agua-Basanjo of rewarding people who are friends with these honours as opposed to people who are well deserving and now he seems to be falling in that category. Would this be still held in high regard or high standard or would it just be a come one, come all affair going forward? Can it be returned to its pride of place if there be any time that it was a very prideful thing? When we have a different class of politicians and political elites who show commitment to Nigeria, particularly patriotic who have a sense of vision and mission on behalf of the country, not on behalf of themselves, then you can begin to talk about the return of values and the right kind of ethos in Nigeria. Right now the inclination of the elites is always safe and gratisment and that's why the country is the way it is. I think I read somewhere in American I think today I can't remember the details he was talking about the kind of beginning, elitist beginning in the country that has led the country to where it is where it is a collective elitist beginning that emphasizes Nigeria remaining as a renter state where the elites continue to melt the country dry. And so we need to have a new kind of thinking a new kind of political leadership a new set of people who truly believe that this country can be great but can only be great when they themselves play their part towards making the country great. It is not this set of people because the values of this set of people are corrosive and driven by corruption motivated by corruption and driven by corruption integrated with the president this current european or another people but it also gives an idea really the thinking of the president in regards to the position of the容 the average Nigerian politician Finally, what would posterity remember President Bahra Fairy to again The clock is ticking, days for the elections are drawing closer and closer because it seems like this month of October is running very fast. What would posterity be remembering President Bahari for? I mean, you mentioned a lot of things, the oil theft, the issue of banditry that has metamorphosed into all kinds of insecurity and all of the divisions that we've seen across the country, the downturn in the economy, no thanks to the war in Ukraine or even Covid, but what would posterity remember President Bahari for? President Bahari will be remembered as a man who strived and strived and strived to become president of this country and who was not given that opportunity about three times and then eventually when it was his turn to become the president all the forces galvanized around him with a new sense of belief that perhaps all of his striving to become president could have been born by act of a deep desire to want to change Nigeria for good and so that translated into the votes that the president got and those votes came with a lot of hope and optimism that within Nigeria was going to get better. He will be remembered as a man who made a lot of lofty promises to the adulation of the Nigerian people, you know, and having gotten to power, spent eight years in power and was not able to achieve anything, any of the any of the promises that he made to the country in the in the areas of security protecting Nigerians in the areas of economy transforming you know the welfare of Nigerians in the area of anti-corruption you know that corruption would be reduced to his barest minimum and Nigerians will remember him for as a man who came and promised a better life but by the time he left the life of the every Nigerian had become extremely difficult you know and almost impossible. I think that these are the things that Nigerians are going to remember him for. There are those who believe that he tried his best but that his best was not enough but I think a lot of Nigerians by and large, majority of Nigerians will remember him as a man who tried and who failed as a man under whom Nigeria became much more divided you know than the country has ever been except for the period that led to the civil war you know so he did not he promised unification you know he promised to heal the wounds of division but under him there was greater division in the country greater suspicion you know along parochial lines in the country and I think that you know history will not be kind and favorable to Muhammed Buhari that is my take. Well and I'm that very star note I want to say thank you. Chike Chude is a political analyst always a pleasure to have you join us on the conversation. Thank you. All right thank you for staying with us we'll take a short break when we return we'll get back to discussing the ADC campaign flag off and of course other matters arising within the party stay with us.