 Hey guys, welcome to another episode of Stepping Up, I'm your host, Daniel Dubois. This week, we continue to feature young people, here and abroad who continue to defy the odds, walk to their own rhythm and win. Gillian Avril is a well-known creative, carnival mass maker and designer who also has interest in innovative technology. Recently he won the Entrepreneurship World Cup competition with his augmented reality app called Engage. I got the chance to meet him and get to know a little bit more about him and his work. So let's take a look at the first interview. I'm going to allow him to introduce himself officially and let us know about his app, Engage. Hi, my name is Gillian Avril, like Daniel said, founder of Engage, a tech-based business which focuses on emerging and innovative technologies, basically to enhance an advanced person's day-to-day life. So it's all started basically with myself, our heart condition, and I used to collapse a lot. But I found a way that if I collapsed that the EMTs of persons would have an idea as to who I am, who I was, and I came up with this idea of creating something called a meditag. And that has been on the, down to the low key for some time now. I introduced the concept of it in 2018, I took part in the inaugural Get in the Ring, I did not win that year. Last year I came back in Get in the Ring and then I came up with a new idea. So it is an augmented reality app. So the idea of it was basically to take any static image and overlay video or anything that you want on it. So let's say you have a corporate brand, like your logo of your T-shirt, and you now want to have a social campaign against it, someone would download the app and then they could look at your T-shirt or any brand that you have and video can play from that. And that idea, one of the judges, and I won, I went off to Berlin, represent St. Lucia, and even there now, persons are blown away by the idea of it and the possibilities of it. I met a couple investors, they said, you know, they love the idea, but let's really get back a little bit. Let us not broaden it to everybody and every single thing that there is under the sun, let us focus on particular industries. So it was, let's look at either tourism, let's look at education, let's look at travel and tourism, so it's fine to do it. So I decided, you know, what is the best thing back in St. Lucia this morning time and education was a critical thing. I felt that, you know, the first was now to go digital in education. So I started speaking at the Ministry of Education to see how best now we can look to see, to start augmenting some of the school books, to supplement the living at schools. And they love the idea of it and we started working on it. But then COVID came in and that just basically stopped everything. But maybe in me, I would not let COVID stop me. So right away, I kept into an overdrive and started thinking of ulterior businesses. And because of the COVID situation where persons were limited to travel and I was like, hey, how can now, persons coming to St. Lucia and display the COVID information without having all these papers and all these documents. And I said, my meditax. So I decided to incorporate what persons would need to travel into my meditax. And then I presented that at two business competitions. I did not win one. And the other one was the Intervention World Cup. And I actually went in from, I think, 100 something local participants to 30. And then to the top 10, then to become the winner. And then I went into represent St. Lucia internationally. Well, I couldn't travel because of COVID situation. Everything was done virtually. And because of that, I got into the top out of 160 applicants. I went on to top 200. And then I became a global finalist, top 100. And then I became the top 10 in my category at IDF. So this is what it has been. That's awesome. I'm interested to understand how easy was it for you to access the technology when I have people talk about an app. I'm guessing it's programming and software engineering and stuff like that. So talk about how easy was it for you to build your platform and the actual app. Well, let's go for last year. Last year, I had basically zero ideas. I have a computer background. I have a background in computer maintenance and system engineering, as well as electrical installation. I knew nothing about programming. I'm more of the hardware side of things. But then I was like, you know what? Let me think about it in this competition. I'm going to bridge this idea. I have no clue whatsoever how I'm going to create the app. But I said, you know what? Let me just burn the bridge behind me, force myself to learn how to do this. And then I spent nights, day in, day out with my girlfriend at my side with the name programming. And I actually came up with the whole concept of how to do the augmented reality app. The other one, which is the meditation component. Now, this one is beyond me. So I actually have two persons out of the US. My sister-in-law and a close friend who are actually programmers. Everyone is programming. They deal with cyber security and data protection, which is because of this, the nature of this business is pushes medical information. Data protection is one of the critical things that we have to look at. So this was beyond my scope. So I brought them in. So this aspect, they're going to be handling it. And a team of software developers for this. So I'm just basically with this one guiding what is required. Because the standards for the US and the standards for signature completely different. So I'm going to try to balance it off where there's a sort of middle line between the two. Because we also have to consider that persons are leaving from the US, the UK, where the protocols of data protection are different from ours. But at the same time, they come to Senusia. But you still have to protect persons that who's to say that Hacker can't come from the US, come to Senusia because we have lower protocols and steal that information and go back and sell it. So we have to think of that line, all of these things. So our standards have to be a particular level. So it was out of my hands. I said, you know what, I don't want to take this on. We need to have standards like the US. So let the US developers handle this. And that was the best thing. In terms of access financially, was it a cheap feat or was it something that you? So since you say everybody within the family have the skills, was it easier for you to be able to pursue better standards and access? Well, the phase that we are currently, we can, we have at the prototype level. So this came at no cost for now. But we are actually making presentations to the Ministry of Health. We've done two presentations to the Ministry of Health and we're looking at the third one because this project to actually implement if we have to do this on this island-wide scale is very costly. And this is what we're hoping to have discussions with. Hopefully, if I'm the prime source, the cabinet would be happy to see how best for financing for this project because this is no luck, especially the COVID situation we have right now. For contact tracing, we need to put a proper system in place. It's not just just an easy app to implement. You now have to consider COVID right now and what may come after COVID. And you need to have, make sure that all holds, all gaps are filled because you don't want to have a system in place. You spend, let's say, $300,000 on a system and you could only cover 40% of persons. A person, let's say spend a million dollars and you could cover all bases. So this is the balancing act right now. For persons to understand that, yes, you might have to spend more money for my system, but the efficiency and effectiveness of the system is way better than spending less money for another system where you now have loopholes in persons like Frederic Rex. Because you know that every one person who has COVID, they can transmit it to so many more persons in a short span of time. So to cover all bases, you'd have to spend money to get this. Well, you jump in front because as the cabinet asks you, what's the vision for the app and what's the future like? And it definitely seems like this technology can be blended into the effort, the effort, sorry, of the Ministry of Health and the other persons that the stakeholders are directly responsible for that. Do you think that before COVID, that your idea would have probably been different or? Initially it was because, funny enough, the week before COVID actually hit, I had a meeting with the Ministry of Health with one person, Mr. Kalex at the Ministry for the implementation of many tags for as a case of emergency. So like I indicated, if I collapse, the EMT would come in and they'd need to know who I was. Now, we have high-prone and some diabetes on the island, high-potential to have you. So it is not just for me personally, but for everybody, because they narrowed out the health management system and it's really for the healthcare facilities, which is the hospitals, the health centers. But what happens before that, before you actually get to the health facility, how does an EMT know who you are or the medication you're on? Who's your doctor? Who to contact? What you're allergic to? They don't have that information. To me, before they used to have, I remember my dad used to have, no, not even that, little in, I think on the ID card or they have little cards that they carry in their wallet to say what blood type they are. I can't remember what it was. You don't see these things again. Health card, yes. So the idea is basically to digitize all of this and make it quick and more accessible because the amount of information you can have on the card and what you can put on my device is something completely different. Or even the medical research that I have is just one or two lines of engraving. But once you tap it, it puts up information. You can actually click a button. It'll send a text message or a call to the health care facility to let them know who you are, who's coming in. So it's modernizing, digitizing the whole process of everything. Well, I can tell you for sure, you're preaching at the right time because I know Ministry of Health for almost all the past three years been doing a lot of innovation and revamping their systems from the community level so you could go into the community. Because the idea is they want more people to go within the community to access health care. So anywhere you go, you just type in your name and your whole history is there from doctors and even your personal information too. So I think it's a question time. So you said type in. So even that too, trying to limit the whole process. That's time consuming to type. You basically tap it and it will pull up the person's information right there. Tap it on your phone. It's, well, the app can be on the phone but we have also readers and devices that can be put at the various places. So that you could just pick up. Yes. So even at the aspect of the contact tracing, the idea is to basically issue a card like this, hopefully to every solution, opposed to an app because we also have to consider the elderly. Persons in different walks of life, the industries that they in, they may not have a smartphone, a high-end smartphone. Do you now say that you're gonna put an app into place and then now that only certain persons in the population who have access to it, what's about the other persons? So that's what I'm talking about, the gaps. But having something like this where everybody can have a card and then wherever business play that you enter, especially the neighbour situation, you enter me, neighbour student, St. Peter. They would know who you are when you enter. So when you speak of the foresight, so even you have a business place where you might have a presence of persons theft. Now that person's are checking in before you enter the business place, do you really think that you want to steal in a business place when you just give them at the entry point, your name, your contact information, where you live, all of that? So all of these things that we're considering and it's not just. Yeah, but not everywhere. So just so I go to a store, I want to. I guess in the fact of the whole COVID situation. Tristan, right now, this is what? The same way you have to sanitize your hands right now, we're hoping that this might be something that becomes a standard process that, because you need to contact Tristan. You have no idea who's in a business place at the same time you are. And Dr. Belmar talked yesterday that there's one case where we might be talking and somebody might be talking elsewhere, but we completely have no idea but both of us end up with COVID at the same time. We're in the same vicinity. So you might be checking for myself and yourself, but what's about the persons around you? How do you know who's in the business place or the subject as yourself? So this is what we're hoping to do. A post to pen and paper where you can, yes, you have pen and paper, but who's to say that what happens to that pen and paper at the end of the day? Yeah. Well, boy. All your information is down in the book. What is that book at the end of the day? Yeah, we have a lot of little things we could change. Exactly. So that's where my thing comes in, where it's- Because even to enter the ministry now, you still have to write your name and stuff. And you can see who's there before you. You could see the person's name, the contact number, where they live all of these things. That's not safe. In this day and age, see me take a picture, I know all your information. A post to my card where it's encrypted what I have you, all of that, all that fear that you would have. It's gone. So I want to move away a little bit from, you know, the whole technology and, you know, I have to pay attention to try and understand it. But I know your story, Gillan. I know that he's an entrepreneur that has tried several projects. And, you know, there's no shame in that because any millionaire or billionaire talk about, they've probably had 10 or 20 ideas and all you need is one of them to go through. And I'm happy to say that it feels as though like you're on the cusp of something good. And you continue, especially I'm getting international acclaim for your work. My question to you now is to share it first in terms of your personal work. Let's talk about Gillan. Let's talk about you and your decision to be, to choose this life. Because a lot of people don't understand being an entrepreneur is a life walk that you choose. And so speak to that. Several times I found myself called myself stupid because I was like, you know, there's a good and a bad in this whole journey. I see a lot of my friends I went to school with, they had jobs, we had basic same education, they have jobs. And I'm like, that could be you. You know, you don't have to be the way you are right now. You know, the simplest nest would have you. But at the same time, the freely excitement, the passion that I have for this, I can't see myself in an office job like everybody else start to see. It's been tough. Like you rightly said, there have been several projects along the way. But timing is a critical thing. One of the issues that I've had with this journey is, I've become with an idea. Brilliant idea. Excellent. But the climate in century is not right for it. So then now you know, you go to all these meetings, persons you meet persons, you're talking all over the space and then dice. Then five years down the road, the very idea that you had, that you've basically shelved, is now the hottest thing on the market right now. So that is one of the things that I had to deal with throughout, you know. It's been hard. Been a little bit ahead of your time. That's the problem that I've always had. Personally, it's said to me that, hey, your thinking is not for sandwiches. Consider living sandwiches. They tend to have been at very low points and have been like, why the hell am I in sandwiches? What the hell am I doing in this place? Why am I still doing this? So do you think that the getting the ring and the entrepreneurship world cup was really that thing that gave you a different edge? I wouldn't say it's just that. It's been the entire process, the entire journey. Because one of the things for me is, I've basically, like I said in someone yesterday, I've worked with every single one of these agencies that deals with entrepreneurship and trying to push young persons forward. I've worked with basically all of them. A lot of the programs, I've been a part of it. And that now has brought me recognition around in some circles in the entrepreneurship and business sector here. Supposed to know me, they know what I bring to the table. They don't expect of me. If they have training for mentorship for young persons, they'd call me. One of the first ones they'd call is me. You know, because they know the kind of person I am. And again, in my thinking process, I can meet entrepreneurs, different walks of life and be some of their businesses and probably link them and help them guide them as to how to bring their business forward. So is the gift on the goods? It is, it's a gift on the goods. I love every minute of it. I mean, there are times where like I said, you just want to give up, but I don't believe in giving up. Every, I wouldn't say my businesses have failed. They've been stepping stones, learning processes. You know, we say fail, but you know, it's something you go through the thing, you try and it just didn't work out. But then you learn so much from going through the process, what to do differently and stuff like that. And I think being an entrepreneur and especially thinking about in terms of technology and innovation, we do support the entrepreneur, but when it comes to technology for some reason, like I know some of the people who have apps and stuff, the thrust is not really there and the support network for that specific field is probably not there. So I'm happy that you were able to really flesh it out and have an app that's actually working. I think one of the things is it's not understood. Technology is not understood down there. And the person's quicker gravity towards a brick-and-mortar business opposed to online. So I think COVID has just changed that mentality. Now, persons now understand the power of a cell phone and what it can do for you and how it can operate because persons who never wanted to use WhatsApp and that kind of thing before, that's how they were transacting. All meetings now, persons who used to travel, zoom. So that kind of thing. So it now, persons are seeing the importance of technology and what it can do so. And stepping up. Yep. So now to step up to the plate right now and say, hey, let's make use of what we have right now. And so persons like myself and other entrepreneurs, because one of the things that you rightly said, there's not a group. And I spent months trying to go through Instagram, Facebook trying to find what local entrepreneurs that they are, what can we do? And I found one or two. I actually wanted to groups starting right now that is directly focused towards technology. I think Chai Tech is one of them that they actually focus on persons in the app world and software development and that is what they're about. So slowly but surely it's been recognized. Other countries like Barbados and Trinidad and it's been for years, they've been pushing it. But here now, again, we're always slow to thing where it's been catch up. Now, with COVID has now made everyone see that there's a need for stuff like this. And embracing the technology. So Gillian, my final question for you as we wrap up. Just let's say you should know a little, what is it that you wanted to know about you, your journey and how to reach out to you should anybody see this program and feel that they can line with you in terms of their objectives and probably spin off and do something new? Well, I'm open to meeting with everybody and anybody. I mean, for the past few weeks when the pictures posted that I won, I've had persons messaging me nonstop and I've been welcoming that. I mean, persons wanting to know about the business, what it's about, where I've been, where I plan to go. Is it just for St. Lucia? I've gotten contacts with persons with, again with the competition, persons asking me, hey, can we implement this in other countries? I'm just a teenager around the world, what have you. But for me, priority center right now, I mean, I can't go and establish elsewhere until I know that my home is secure. So I'm welcoming all persons who want to work with me to actually build this program. Because one of the things that, if this, or when this rolls out, I should say, if when this rolls out, it's going to be an island-wide thing. We need persons from all Knicks and Cranies to actually get this going because paramount is our health and safety. So this is what our focus right now for Engage is getting a COVID-19 response up and going. For both persons with medical conditions and persons without medical conditions that wherever we go on the island, you have an idea as to who you are, where you're from, and how to contact you. And for persons who keep safe. That's the most critical thing for me right now. Well, Gilan, all the best. Thank you very much for reaching out and being a part of the show. And all the best and continue to step up. Next. Coronavirus? I am worried Gaza is only old people dying from that. Hold up. Being young does not mean being safe. Yes, it's true that the elderly are at higher risk, but anyone can get the virus. The effect is even worse if you have a chronic condition like hypertension, heart disease, lung disease, and diabetes or weakness in your immune system. If you are living with these conditions, be extra careful. Wash your hands with soap and water. Use hand sanitizer with at least 60% alcohol when hand washing is not possible. Avoid touching your face. Take steps to boost your immunity through proper nutrition, exercise, rest, and take your medication as prescribed. Limit being around people who have flu symptoms, even close family members. Our health is in our hands. Together through simple actions, we can stop the spread of coronavirus. This message was brought to you by the Bureau of Health Education of the Ministry of Health and Wellness. Welcome back. Stepping Up has really gotten to feature some outstanding St. Lucians who have the most interesting stories and backgrounds. What we can take away from these stories is the fact that they never give up and continue to work until they realize their dreams. I hope that features like these touches you and inspires you to do the same. So thank you very much, Gilland, and continue Stepping Up. Now it's time for Linkup. Carol Victor is a young St. Lucian living and working in Taiwan for the past seven years. When he was successful at attaining a scholarship to study economics, his love for the arts and performance was never left behind. As a matter of fact, he's now a very well-known performing artist in Taiwan, performing in Mandarin and English. Let's take in the interview to get to know more about this very young outstanding St. Lucian living in Taiwan today. Hello, Carol, and I wish I could have greeted you in Chinese, but... Well, I can teach you. It's very simple. Ni hao. Ni hao? Like that? How are you, Carol? I'm doing great. I'm doing fantastic. It's been an interesting year. It's been a tough year. But with perseverance and with the right vision, everything is really coming into fall. So I'm great. I'm fantastic. It's pretty late right now because the time is over and the time difference. Yes, yes, yes, yes. But I just want to say to be here and to be able to share part of my journey and my experience and to link up with you, Daniel, again, it's been a while. I know. I know. I miss you a lot. It was hard seeing you go. How long have you been in Taiwan now? Wow, I've been in Taiwan for seven years. Seven years, seven years. And that's what we had to talk about. So let's talk about the journey to Taiwan. My first question for you. Let us know a little bit about you before you left for Taiwan. Before I left for Taiwan, I just left South Africa and I had worked for one year at NTN GIS. I worked in broadcasting, which is where you are right now. So it's really nice. I've worked with some of my former colleagues. That time I was also on the music scene and performed at the Jazz Festival, the side stage. I had also won the U-Fest that we had at that time and I had just started a band we had called ASAP. Just musical prodigies, the likes of Dwight Florence, Isman Lovens and a few others. So it was just really starting the musical journey and I had just been propped out and taken out from Senusia to start in Taiwan. I mean, it was a big sacrifice. And I mean, in the pursuit of education, I felt at that time I had left my dreams of music and performing arts behind to pursue my degree. But luckily, I think Taiwan was an opportunity for something even bigger and even better in terms of the opportunities in performing arts and music and so forth. So that was my journey before coming to Taiwan. What did you study when you went to Taiwan? Yeah, so I studied economics. I did a bachelor's in economics. The degree is a long program for four years and also study one year of Chinese because as you know, Senusia in Taiwan has diplomatic relations. So in my year, I bought, it's about like 18 students who got scholarships, medical as well as other areas of scholarships in Taiwan. So I was a beneficiary of that. And really a great blessing because Taiwan has been a great ally to Senusia. As you've seen, even during the COVID crisis, we benefited from a lot of masks and PPPs and all this other stuff. So, you know, we've been good friends in the East. Yes, it's nice. And I'm sure you feel that by now because of how long the diplomatic relations have been on, there's a small Senusian community, I am sure in Taiwan, that can keep you very busy. Yeah, definitely. Let me tell you, there are Senusians who have gotten married, who have settled down. Wow. Senusian community. In fact, just last weekend, today's the day we had a Shunekwio River Lime. Yes, yeah. Because there's actually a bigger community in the south of Taiwan, a lot of students there. So we had a Shunekwio Lime, I think they were cooking, you know, for beyond one pot kind of stuff. I didn't have a chance to go because I was busy, but definitely there is a Senusian community here and it's great. And the longer we stay here, I think the more permanent and the more we make our presence felt in Taiwan. So it's great. Just like the Senusian communities you have in Canada and the UK and the US, we have a great Senusian community here in Taiwan. Nice. I followed your journey very closely, Carol, because you know, you always used to show us the little things that you were doing. And you know, in terms of the whole music landscape, I remember you used to do little gigs and you know, you started very small. I guess you had your own band. Let us know what was your first opportunity and how really, what really started your work in the performing arts as a well-known singer over there? In Taiwan, right? In Taiwan, yeah. Yes, it was very interesting because as you know, I came in as a student and you know, in every country they have strict laws regarding you know, your visas and what you can and cannot do. So when I got offered the chance to perform in Taiwan, I was very skeptical and very wary. Next lady, Potty. You know, but I did go through the legal channels and I got an agency and then I started performing at weddings, at different wedding gigs. But even before that, I think I took part in a few school activities, like maybe a singing competition at school or some other singing guitar club or some other club. Because I think the passion for music followed me everywhere I went and I had to express that. So, but professionally, it was working with that company and selling doing gigs, doing events and doing like for big companies like BMW and Mars and all these big corporate events. That was really the beginning, the start of that. And it would give me a chance, I think that time I was like, oh, actually maybe I can continue my musical journey because for me, I thought I'd left the music behind to pursue my degree in economics. So I think that was the start of that epiphany. Like I can do this moment. Nice. I know that you want a very big competition over there, national competition actually. So let's talk a little bit about that. So yes, this competition is before was huge. I took part, I think out of maybe, because just like the big shows like in the UK and the US, like The Voice and America's Got Talent, et cetera, it's one of the biggest singing competitions in Asia. And I took part and I mean, when I started a competition, I was like, just to get a little publicity feel, but I never thought I'd make it all the way to the finals of the competition. It was a six month journey, six months of filming and performing and so forth. And out of 3,000 people and then down to the finals, I came six out of the final seven. And it was a life changing experience because when I came to Taiwan seven, seven years ago, there was not a lot of, I think, visibility for people of color in Taiwan. And it felt like a foreign, it felt like out, it felt out of it, out of water, out of bubble. And fast forward to seven years later, when you're in the trains and the MRT and you have a poster, you're facing a poster, you're facing a billboard and people are stopping you in the streets and asking for pictures and then you have fans all over the place. Autographs. Oh my God, it's so real. It was really, it was really crazy. It was really life changing. And that was, I think, a game changer for everything in terms of the focus on the music, in terms of recognizing the opportunity that you have, your skills and your talent to do that. Because I mean, volume and size matters. So, Senlusha is a lot of talent. It's amazing people, amazing producers, but we are small market. So, anywhere else you find yourself in the world, whether this is the UK or the US or Taiwan or China, a bigger market means more, more income, more followers, more celebrity, more et cetera. So, I think it's really an opportunity to grow and to expand that. And I'm pretty fortunate for that. So Carol, you know fast forward, you won the show, you've been, I've seen you done a lot of collaborations with some major artists over there. Let us know what you do now. What's your daily routine like? You know, are you working? Are you still at school? What's the update? All right, so it's been two years since I graduated and back then I decided to just focus fully on the music. Because economics, all these things, this really was my, just music was really my passion. So, on my daily routine right now, I'm working on my album that's coming out in January next year, January 3rd, just around the New Year's. I'm also working for a lot of other artists I'm producing for other artists of some foreigners as well as some Taiwanese, because especially there is, there's a market for an English speaker because Taiwanese ones actually reached a international market. I'm also, I teach singing lessons as well. And songwriter, I'm working for company, I also write for other artists. And I also teach English as well. So it's full all around the clock, busy, busy schedule. There's my days, but luckily for me, my days are most times afternoon to evening. So, luckily I'm not a morning person. I was never a morning person. And then when the day goes, you can go and go and go. Some people are like that for sure. Yeah, so that's what I've been up to in the past. For the past few months. Also a lot of TV shows, TV performances, and then working with different companies doing different events. But in Taiwan, we've really, really been lucky in Taiwan because we never actually had a lockdown. We never actually had to stop working, stay at home. So we were able to continue to go to work, continue to perform. And obviously there was a slowdown because people lost their jobs, there's not much income. And companies are not hosting parties and events. But very, very fortunate to still be performing and still be singing and bringing smiles to people's faces. Because especially in a time where it will look like, I mean, when you think back to April, May, June, like the world was like, wow, it's like the world was like. Yeah, you don't know what to expect next or what's next, you know? Definitely, definitely. So it's good now to be back on stage and to be performing and to be just singing and doing what I love. In terms of the cultural, the cultural aspect, that I think has been something I do with pride because even when I was a student, I was president of the Students Association and we hosted many different activities. We had a masquerade performance. We had cultural performances. Were you Mary Ascent? Well, we didn't get the Mary Ascent. We had the Lashabless. What were you, Carol, or you just organized it? I was directing, I was just directing. Okay. And then we had introducing our local dishes and local food to the Taiwanese audience. And as of, was it two years ago, myself and Brinee said if you remember Brinee Springer, she's actually a secretary working in the embassy in Taiwan. And we had a chance to perform at an international arts festival where there were at least, I think eight countries from around the world performing at that festival and were able to present and represent Sinusha. So that was a really, that was a really good opportunity as it was a chance to show what Sinusha is and we're using our Creole. We had, well, because it's... I didn't imagine, you'll probably do how much things. I just didn't imagine. Well, Carol, I want to say thank you for your ambassadorship. You know, from the outside looking in, I still feel like because of, you know, how small we are, we still kind of probably fathom the amount of success that you've been able to attain as a young Sinusha and working over there. And you know, getting to win that national, what you call that singing competition. So my next question for you is, what's next, what's the next step? What's next for Carol Victor on the long stream of things? The long stream of things. Well, I think the next big thing was really trying to take this on the international level. I think the advantage of actually speaking and singing in English and Chinese gives me a big audience. So I want to reach the Chinese audience. I think I probably moved to China, maybe in the few years to come because that's where there's a bigger market there. So trying to reach Chinese audiences all over. My plan for the next two years would be a Carol concert in Hong Kong, in Singapore, in Shanghai. You know, that's really the goal in the next three years. That's what I want to do. So for now it's making the music, the music that sticks to people like and finding a way to hit both markets, both English. Because for me, I cannot neglect the English part because English comes to me naturally. And then Creole less and less because I haven't been able to sing. Sorry, I'm a little over there. But we're still here. And so that's the plan. That's the plan in the next two, three years to have retorring the world. That's really international, international, international. That's what we want to do. Finally take Sen Lusha on the international stage because I mean, especially in Taiwan, like people still don't know what Sen Lusha is or where Sen Lusha is. You understand? It's every time when I'm introducing myself, it's like, huh? Oh, oh. So, you know, just like Rihanna, people know I'm Barbados because of Rihanna. I hope that you know Sen Lusha because of Carol. Yeah, and I want to be like, you know, I knew him, right? He's my friend. I know him. Carol, one last message for people in Sen Lusha inspired by your story because I mean, generally as a person, you know, that you came from a cultural and creative arts background already before you left. So I think it's an interesting story that you're able to go to Taiwan and bring you, it does able to be your authentic self and you're still able to shine and get into leadership roles. And being on a mainstream artist over there right now. So, you know, congratulations. So anyone inspired by your story, any Sen Lusha in thinking about going to Taiwan, what is it that you have to say? What's the message? My message to you is, to anyone out there, just don't ever stop working hard. Don't ever stop believing because what you have now may seem small. When you're reusing back at the cultural center, you know, reusing until midnight, taking all these buses back home for Tinde and masquerade master all these shows. I would have never thought where this journey would end or where this journey would take me. So just continue harnessing your talent, continue building, continue believing and being an inspiration to other people. Because I think there's solutions all over the world in the UK and Canada, in the US, you have Johan Duterville in the US as well. And we all started small and all we needed was an opportunity to go big. And I think for us, our heart is still at home. We still want to come back and then to build Sen Lusha because I have business plans for Sen Lusha. I have to be ready. I can't even ask you. You want to do it all. You know, you want to do it all. You want to do it all. Just continue working hard and pushing because you just never know where it'll take you. And the sky, you know what people say, the sky is the limit. You're like, I'm looking at all the babies in Canada. But really, the sky is the limit. And whatever you believe is possible. Just keep on pushing. And don't let the haters stop. Because I didn't know people telling me, oh, my music, my work, you know, I'm making no money that day. Piss my ass. You understand? But that's not the case. That's not the case. You have to continue pushing and continue dreaming and working hard. And that's my message. Well, Mr. Victor, thank you so much for joining us. And, you know, staying up, you know, I'm not going to disclose what time it is, according to the technician that he says. You know, you shouldn't say on camera what time it is or what date it is. But thank you so much for chilling with me today and just reaching out and being so open. And, you know, on all the best, thank you for stepping up, rerouting for you. And let's continue being you and continue being great, Carol. And I'm rooting for you too. I follow the show. I'm a fan as well. Oh, thank you. And I'm impressed of all that you've been doing as well. Yeah, trying to blend it all. Thank you very much, Carol. That's it for this week's installment of Stepping Up. Don't forget to send me an email at steppingup758.gmail.com if you or someone you know wants to be featured on the show. I'm your host, Daniel Dubois. Thank you so much for joining us. See you next time. Keep safe and don't forget to keep Stepping Up.