 The Center for Public Accountability's CPA is an organization that is focused on ensuring that public office holders and process are accountable and can be trusted. To this end, they are consistently monitoring all government processes and engagement. It is on this basis of their core value at the CPA that they are writing to the office of the President to demand an immediate stoppage of the recruitment process of the Office of the Auditor-General of the Federation and ordering a review of the process before a final decision is made or taken. Their calling for this stoppage because they are aware that they have obtained documents that have shown that the current process that is planned to be concluded on the first day, the 11th of May, that's today, is filled with irregularities and that the outcome cannot be trusted. We're joining us to speak on this. He's Olufemi Lawson, he's a development expert, a media entrepreneur and a pro-democracy activist. Thank you so much for joining us. He's also the national auditor of the Campaign for Democracy and Convenience, your robust stakeholder summit. Thank you for joining us. Good evening. Good evening. Thank you for having me. Yes, walk us through how you got these so-called information that is showing that this process of recruiting the Auditor-General, which is a civil service procedure, is not done properly. Thank you once again. The problem here is that most times as Nigerians, we find it difficult to show an interest in what happened around us, despite the implications that some of the policies and decisions of government have on us as citizens. The process of recruitment in the public service is not a secret process, ordinarily it should be as transparent as possible because it is a public sector and Nigerians must be interested at all times in what happens in recruitment process and promotions because as people move upward in the civil service, windows are open for younger people to come into the process for people to get promoted, and of course, increasing productivity as the case may be in the civil service. But we have a situation whereby virtually everything in the country today has become so politicized to the extent that merit is becoming daily thrown into the dustbin. And as Nigerians, we should be concerned, concerned in the current recruitment process of the new Auditor General of the Federation is such that we are really bothered with the procedures that have been undertaken. This has been on for almost two years and you see it's the question of what is obtainable, what is the ethic as far as the civil service rule is concerned. But then we have a situation where people are trying to rewrite illegally the procedures for promotion in the civil service. We have a situation whereby people are trying to politicize what ordinarily should be positions where you are qualified to occupy by the virtue of your years in service. But today, every due process has been negated, particularly in the recruitment process of the Office of the Auditor General. The most worrisome aspect of this is the tendency for corruption in this recruitment process because the anti-graft agencies in the country are involved whenever these kind of, you know, very crucial or strategic offices are to be occupied by anyone. But today, you find people in authority who are trying to even undermine the position of the anti-corruption agencies, particularly the ICPC, in appointing, you know, a new Auditor General for the Federation. And that's where we are raising this alarm that we should allow every institution to become so politicized to the extent that we can no longer have people in position on the basis of merit, on the basis of their qualification, on the basis of the ethics and of course the later rule of the civil service or whatever profession as the case may be. When you talk about politicizing the process, it makes me really wonder because right before me, I can see the procedure in which these people are being recruited, as at, I think, 2022, the President had approved the recruitment of a new Auditor General. And I also know, it is public knowledge that officers who were undergoing disciplinary measures were excluded from the process. But I'm most interested in you saying that you're pushing for merits because there are people who are trying to reinvent the wheel. What are you combating for? Are you combating for merits here or do you have a personal interest? No personal interest in this. Merits is an issue and due process, like I said earlier, the process of selection has been honed. What you saw, what you referred to as the event of today May 11th, is another attempt at implying to shortcuts or by cutting the earlier stated rules, the earlier taking procedures in the appointment of the new Auditor General. Before now, there have been no candidates who have been shortlisted on the basis of seniority. You cannot undermine the role, the place of seniority as far as the civil service is concerned. It is not enough to go and bring somebody from behind to occupy a position when people who are years ahead of such a person in the service are still very actively involved in the service. The process had been earlier conducted. People were shortlisted, five persons precisely. The first, you know, all sort of, the panel, the road exams, the ad interviews, they even went through screening properly by the anti-corruption agency. And it is also in the public that ICPC made recommendations as to who is qualified on the basis of their integrity and, of course, the assessment for this position. But suddenly, because some people within the service are uncomfortable, most likely would be people who are deemed to have been qualified, who have been recommended. But the virtue of the original screening, which was really, you know, undertaken by the same civil service commission, have not come up. Why do those people are still in active service? To initiate another process of recruitment for the same position, while nothing as a decision has been taken on the outcome of the previous assessment, which remains valid today, not a statement from the Office of Data Service of the Civil Service Commission and can suit the earlier process undertaken. Then what is the basis for this new process, bringing 11 people to come and undertake the same process that we're undertaking by those five earlier shortlisted? And these people we are bringing, while many of them really have up to two years, you know, in service, as we speak, to occupy such position. So these are issues of people trying to sideline the rule, you know, and probably bringing favoritism into the whole process of selection of an office that should be occupied by people who have only merited it. Looking at this letter that was written and sent addressed to the Office of the President, I see that you have indicted the head of service, you have indicted certain people who work in the service. You've also given a report by the ICPC. And I see here the names of the five people that you've made reference to, Mr. Issu Kuku, Julius Michael, Mrs. Ogun Dowo, Adiritya Lusheyi. I also see Mrs. Ugun Ngozi-Ukeria, Mrs. Ongodili, Ogochuku, and Mr. Guayanshu Gabriel. These are the five that you make mention of initially, but now you're accusing the head of service of 11 new people who were being auditioned or rather interviewed for the same office. So the people say that Abela has been undertaken. So what is the basis for this new, you know, procedure when there has not been any decision taken on the previous, you know, well-conducted process that has given, you know, best to a recommendation like you could see in our letter, you know, by the ICPC recommending, you know, restating its findings about new cases, you know, that were earlier nominated. You don't just make a system go through such process, screening or writing tests, you know, going through computer-based tests and all sort of exercises, only for you to get to a point and now initiate a new process, especially bringing people who in most cases are not even qualified to come and undergo a new process for the same procedure where institutions that are concerned are taking decision and you have refused to act upon it. Again, as the CPA, have you gone to the office of the head of service, this same letter that you have sent to Mr. President, have you gone asking all of these questions, have you inquired as to why these new 11 people have been brought for the same interview that five people had already been interviewed for and shortlisted for that office? I mean, of course, like you said, it's an issue of merit and whoever is picked would be picked from those five. But like I said earlier on, those who, according to Mr. President's report or rather statement, those who were undergoing disciplinary measures were left out of this. Could any of these five have been one of those or linked to the scam that had happened before the Auditor General, the S-Y Auditor General, was taken out of office? Could they have been linked to it? What groundwork have you done in terms of asking all of these questions as opposed to being here? Well, first and foremost, we have, of course, copied the office of the head of service, with the letter submitted to the President. We have sent to the National Assembly because even on this same issue, the National Assembly has directed a suspension of that process. But as we speak, some persons within the Federal Service Commission and the office of the head of service, as the case may be, have been deviant and unconsciously disobeying the position of the National Assembly, asking that the process be put on hold and are going ahead with what you saw today in that letter. And beyond that, we have also copied other stakeholders who may be interested in ensuring that the law and order are followed, as far as the equipment process is concerned. So we have not only received the President, we have sent this letter to every Necessary Court and the National Assembly, of course, and every institutions that are concerned. And on the basis of the merits, just like you said, we are not particularly interested in any individual coming to be the Auditor General of the Federation. But we must, as a country, be sincere with ourselves for months that when people are taking through a process, when people are recommended or when positions are taken on the integrity and character of people who want to occupy public positions, such ones are taken seriously, especially if such are recommendations coming from institutions like the Independent Corporations and Order Related Offenses Commission, ICPC, which has made its recommendation clear on this process. This is not enough for some people to sit in the comfort of their offices and begin to undermine this kind of the positions already taken by qualified institutions of our country because of selfish ambition of individuals. I see some of the recommendations that you have made here, asking for a current recruitment process of the office to be put on hold. But as we speak, today is the last day for that recruitment process. Today is the 11th. So what exactly do you think can be done and with Mr. President not being in the country as we all know, how do you expect that something would take a turn? If, as you have said, there are people in certain positions that are trying to skew the process, what are you hoping for? Even in the absence of the President in the country, the President is very much active as the President of the country. It can work from wherever he is anywhere in the world, just like we have been made to know. And it is not only the President that is concerned or that is involved in this. Like we said, the National Assembly has taken a position on this which was respected. The other institutions that are concerned have made recommendations on this. This must be respected and we are also using this opportunity to cut on the presidency, not only President Muhammad but also to ensure that this illegality that is going on in the recruitment of the new Otto General of the Federation is quickly addressed so that we don't begin to set landmine for the incoming administration whenever they come because if this becomes the norm, we have seen so many institutions today where people are overstaying their time in office just because someone somewhere is giving them this level of confidence and disregarding the procedure disregarding the rules of civil service as the case may be and this is not only going to be counterproductive to us as a nation is that for the morale of people who are younger officers who are in the lower cadres of the civil service you cannot continue to use individual selfish ambitions to undermine the institutions of our democracy and the interests of our country. Okay, let me because there are those who would say that this is something that mostly happens or goes unnoticed in the civil service being that there are people who are have powers just as you said why does this case why is this case so interesting to the CPA as opposed to other people who have I mean for example in the army and in the force we see people who are not supposed to be holding certain positions holding it but then we don't see the CPA screaming blue murder on their behalf why now why this that's not totally correct if you have followed our activities only recently we have led series of protest and agitation over the continued stay of the acting controller general of the new immigration service who stand out and aspire April 22nd last year President Muhammad who had very graciously extended it for another one year which expired again on the 24th of April you know this year but the manners continue to stay in office so we have raised a lot not only on this but on several other institutions where people are fragmented abusing our laws and will not stop at this this is just one of the many cases as I speak to you we approve we are already caught over some of these issues so where this agitation is not limited to what is probably happening in this recruitment process but rather holistically we take a look at what happens across the institution of government most importantly most importantly because of our concern as Nigerians because of our interests in our democracy we cannot continue to allow a very few very very few people to continue to undermine our institutions for purely selfish you know political interests or whatever the case may be like we are currently witnessing Well I want to say thank you Ulufa Milocin for speaking with us on this issue we're going to keep our eyes on this story and see what the outcome is and thank you for doing what you do thank you for coming on the show You're welcome All right and that's the show tonight we want to thank you all for watching now if you want to play catch up on all of our different episodes of the program please go to Plus TV Africa on YouTube's Like Subscribe and follow all of our programs I'm Mary Annico and do have a good evening