 It's not like you're either doing anything wrong, it's from the time we're just being ourselves. My idea is behind the company. Do you get that question? So the first question I'd like to start with is if you could please tell us a bit more about how and why Commonwealth started and what is the driving force and the ideas behind the company. So Commonwealth started about 12 years ago, so we've been going for a very long time. We started off in a very DIY way, so we were a group of people living and working in Bristol and we met on a big show that was in a big old hospital and it was basically a big show where lots of artists came together to reclaim a space that was empty and to turn it into a kind of crazy theatre world extravaganza for the audience to explore and we did that with no money, we did that on pure love for making theatre or making art and that's kind of where Commonwealth was born in the kind of DIY squatting scenes of Bristol and I guess it was a case of being in the right place at the right time, you know it felt like the environment we were in really allowed for those kind of things to happen, the kind of social situation we were in where we could sign on or we could squat buildings to live meant that we could work for free and I guess when we first started up we didn't really think about having careers in the arts or like having a company that was fully funded until we made a show together and me and Evie there was about domestic violence and we realised that we couldn't really employ our friends anymore to do the jobs because we wanted to have five different characters of all different ages so we applied to get some funding from the arts council and it was there that Commonwealth's kind of practice really came into play, the practice of working very locally, working, we did that show in a street in a house so we was really working with the local community and seeing how you know very like people who live next door to you where you were performing might come to a show for the very first time and I guess the easiest way to sum up Commonwealth is kind of in that isn't our name so Commonwealth is in two separate words so what we have in common being common as in being poor, common space, commonality and then well for the things that come, all the treasures that come in our communities and society in the way we live, the way we are in our experience and we make theatre in found spaces so from those squatting days found spaces we collaborate with multidisciplinary artists, we invite people into our process, whoever they are we're really interested in building with a lot a lot of people and we're always making political work with socially theatre company so our work is always at the very centre at the very core of it is people and politics. Thank you so much that's absolutely fascinating I'd like to just ask you like how was the show received in the hospital that sounds so exciting I was wicked it was it was based on a brother's grin fairy tale so it was you know we had it we had a story called The Juniper Tree so it was a really playful kind of magical exploration into like creating worlds and I think for for me it was like that play was literally all about how do you create a world for the audience to explore like how do you really inhabit that world and it was brilliant because it just felt very exciting because people it was like you know a little bit underground and then we sold out very fast and then we had to do another rerun and and it was great because people would just come like artists would just come and be like oh I've got an idea can I bring in this puppet the day after and we're like yeah come just bring it just add to it so it felt like we were constantly building the show as we went which is something to be fair that we've taken through our work like till this day like we're really open for that that to happen we really enjoy it yeah that sounds amazing I wish I was that that sounds so exciting um had you as a matter of curious it had you been uh to a site specific piece of theater before that you actually even made the piece of work in the hospital uh for me like I I studied in a place called Darlington College of Arts which is a very experimental it was a very experimental experimental radical theater study like university drama school um so I I'd had a whole like yeah a whole term just exploring site specific theater with an amazing teacher and I know Evie at the time just before I met her she was on a boat traveling across Europe making shows on the boat and I know she'd done a lot of work previously like that and it also said it had some time in that and to study in as well so we both had a knowledge of it but I think the biggest thing is we had a real passion for it for us it wasn't about making theater in theaters that didn't excite us like just a stage didn't excite us it was the whole kind of what can you get from a building what else you know how else can we make theater incredible absolutely amazing and I think it's something that I think about a lot actually that this idea of what is the future of theater especially maybe not just the European context but also in uh uh in the British context of do we is the future still in the venues or is there more space and room to be actually taking theater outside of the space it is theater defined by a traditional venue um I'd like to move on to my next question for you Evie um would you please take us to like a typical kind of like commonwealth creative process from like the inception of an idea to the realization of the performance um so yeah usually because we are always a political company so the inception of the idea is always at the root of it is some kind of political change or a political motivation but also usually it's come from a person and a conversation or a connection we've had with somebody whether that's someone in our family or someone on our you know like a neighbor but often it'll be like and we'll be inspired by someone we meet um and then we always interview so we'll always start to interview and like build up a picture of the subject and so we'll talk to lots of different people that are affected or impacted so like say with I have met the NMA we talked to lots of different um people that have kind of had a relationship to the British arms trade which might be through war or colonization or it might be that they've held and fought with arms or it might be that they sell arms so we went to like an arms fair as research so we we do a lot of kind of gathering of interviews and research we then work kind of creatively with a team and very much like experimental um because we're not really a narrative company so we're not really like a beginning middle and an end company we're much more about an atmosphere and an experience so we create an emotional score um which is like a emotional kind of choreography of the emotions that an audience will go through because although we're working with political ideas we always want there to be an emotional feeling to those ideas so that it's not dry and it's not like you're just being told something but you're more having a kind of experience with it and then we'll find the site I mean obviously it's not all in order sometimes the site comes early or whatever but yeah so the site's really important like we ran on said because we know the site holds so much so we're always thinking okay what story are we telling and where is best to tell that story so and that could be symbolically or it could be the location so it's like actually um like for example we did a play about Muslim female boxes that has to be in a boxing gym but then with I have met the enemy we were interested in working in areas where there's I well but like near to where arms manufacturing happens and areas where there was high sign-up and recruitment to the army so like kind of areas that had like a local connection for people so more about the area from the building um but so we do a play about power we do that in like a city hall or I don't know just basically finding buildings that resonate with the piece um and then from there we pretty much more and more now we're more interested in not working with actors and working or sometimes with a mix usually what's best is we work with a mix of actors and people who are completely new but who's um who are experts in the subject that we're looking at so at the moment we're working a new play um about Islamophobia and car culture because it's a very big car culture in Bradford so we're working with drivers who've not necessarily had any acting experience but they they're drivers so they're experts in being a driver and they and they also have a very much a lived experience of Islamophobia so it's like actually sometimes way more interesting and you save a lot of time rather than having rehearsals where people are like trying to find their character people are basically playing a version of themselves um yeah and then we have a big tech period we're very much into tech like I've met the enemies you'll see in the trailer coming up had a lot of lasers and a lot of light and sound and music so we really like to also give it a lot of framing and play a lot with um what music and light can do and then we get the audience in and it's always for us about getting working class audiences in so alongside all of that we're also always talking to people and connecting with people and getting yeah trying to build an audience of local people so yeah wow that's that's so inspiring I'm sure lots of people in the audience are gonna find that that's an incredible process I just wanted to ask something about the emotional score so um in fact we also with Besna when we work where we we use that kind of that term emotional score instead of like a strict narrative score and I was just wondering whether when you're in a typical process because as you said processes are all different but uh the emotional score is that generally informed by the research and the interviews that you do so that's that's like the the background and then it comes does it spring from that yeah they go totally hand in hand so like for instance with the player that Rianna was talking about um our glass house which is about domestic abuse we knew we wanted to explore the feelings of love for example because we know that people stay with their partners out of love not just out of fear and control so we knew we had these big emotions like love fear control expectation bravery that was the emotional score for that play so we kind of constructed the questions but it kind of goes both ways it's like you kind of construct the questions and say okay we're going to ask questions about love and then from the questions and from the answers someone might say something else which is about control so then we're like okay now we're going to start asking questions about control so we might go in there with a bit of an idea of like these are the big themes and the big emotions and then through the questions and answers we kind of are always refining the questions and kind of yeah thinking actually okay what what emotion really is it like how do we go deeper than that so then we just we kind of tweak the questions and then does this make sense basically like we do we'll have an idea of what the emotions are but then also when we're talking to people and getting their answers that helps us to kind of think about it in new ways and with new emotions um but yeah no the the questions and the emotions are informing each other all the time and then shaping that score yeah incredible um on that um i've got another question sorry um with do you two often work very closely together on every project or is it more organic or does one write one direct or like what's generally your creative um partnership usually up until this year we've always kind of co-directed everything and that's a lot i'm sure anyone who's in a co-direction or a devised process know like how many conversations that is so you're constantly like you know you can have like an hour long conversation about one question that you should be asking in interviews or you know a whole day talking about one emotion and it's just like a lot of conversations so we're co-directing we'll often work with a writer but also that process is very much like kind of really interrogating and looking at what we're doing and as directors i suppose because we're not writing in a conventional way so we're kind of more creating structures and devising structures and devising the world and the environment um so yeah but this year we're because we are based in Bradford and Cardiff so actually this year is the year when we're i'm working on pisophobia up here with the drivers and Riannon's working on a show called The Sea is Mine uh with mums in Cardiff and in Palestine so we're basically now kind of like going our own dreams um but that's even more exciting that's even more exciting in so many ways and Riannon if you don't mind could i ask you a little bit about the project you're working on in Cardiff at the moment yeah so um it's very early um but basically um the project is called The Sea is Mine and it's our first uh it's our first goal of making a political children's show uh which is also for adults so it's like how do you make a kids show that's for kids and for adults um and we're working with a group of young mums aged 16 to 18 who are from the council estate that i grew up in um i'm thinking of the process being with them and their kids so they work together to make the show uh and the idea is that we co-create it with a group in Palestine with the same group of young mums that live there uh it's based on um visible and invisible borders so uh in my 20s i took a circus to Palestine and i met an old guy in Halil in Hebron um and he said from here you can see the sea but you can't touch it and this is Palestine and in the council estate i grew up in you can see the sea but you can't touch it if you haven't got the money to get there so it's kind of a look at you know the physical borders the man puts up and then also the invisible borders the man puts up and how we kind of overcome that and overcome our circumstances to reach a place of where we need to be so it's about traveling beyond our circumstances and the kind of uh the setting is a library so the library uh in the estate is basically uh being turned into something called a hub so in wales the libraries have all been turned into like every central point you need in a community so there's the police station in there the community centre the library the benefits office everything is contained in one and in the library in this specific library the benefit office and the the housing office is inside the library so if you're reading a book or if you go to get a book out you you often see people crying you know having a really traumatic time because they're losing their benefits or they're losing their housing so basically i want to reclaim a kind of sacred space i want to reclaim what it means to have that space to escape and also reclaim it to be something different so we're going to state the show in the library after hours for kids it's going to be a massive treasure hunt where they look for the sea we're going to meet the Palestinian women so we'll see them on video a little bit like the enemy and our relationship with Shalda uh and hopefully stage something similar in Palestine but we haven't gone that far yet um but yeah it's kind of massive and the idea is that it would be like a process on a production so we're hoping that i mean the big ambition i don't even know if this is possible is that we could move it to other parts of the UK so we could take it up to Bradford and maybe in Bradford we would collaborate with another group of young women to make play a vision that is about their own lives and then connect with somewhere else in the in the world that might have physical borders maybe somewhere like Kashmir and then create a relationship between Kashmir and Bradford and the young ones there so it's kind of a bit of an international children's production reclaiming libraries of sacred spaces ambition sounds unbelievable that sounds unbelievable and like it sounds like a really exciting um project to start to create international solidarity as well because that's that's a really vital thing and we're always questioning a business as well like how can we create how can we how can we create connections and solidarity between people uh that might not even know you know they might not have any connection between those communities etc because that's really in this this this campaign that we're all after this socialist campaign for international equality i think this is one of the essential steps and without this international solidarity creation i don't think it's going to be ever be possible so that's amazing yeah and it's totally that it's also the same as life i know the community that i'm working in so well and i know that the young girls they're like 16 to 18 they would have never have met probably people in Palestine or know the context of that and i know that that relationship would be the most beautiful thing and in the times we live in like travel like you know all the travel that we can do but all the connections we can make digitally like is that how do we how do we use the power of digital to really connect up and really understand each other's circumstances so we can fight together for what we need so that's kind of the mission within that i really hope you're going to keep me updated on that that sounds unreal um and i'd like to move on if that's okay and Rihanna would you be able to tell us a little bit about um we're about to move on to your next we won your shows from last year um i have met the enemy and the enemy is us and so before we play the videos that we've got um would you be able to just introduce the project a little bit and give us a bit of context yeah so if you touched on it um a fair bit um so i've met the enemy and the enemy is us it's about the UK's involvement with the arms trade we're the second largest arms dealers in the world uh and i guess like what me and ev and the team wanted to interrogate is how we are so complicit but so unaware in our everyday lives and how can we kind of bring that back to us how can we explore the people's lives who have been impacted on by the arms trade who can tell that story with us and how can we show that you know there's there's this amazing website um on the campaign against the arms trade website there's an amazing feature where you can tap in your postcode and it shows you where the arms manufacturers are close to your house and you do that in the UK and you find out that there's like you know in Cardiff there's like six I think arms manufacturers really close to where I live and then in Bristol there's like hundreds you know like and you just start to really build a picture of how complicit how it's happening basically in our cities at the end of our streets and at what cost you know like what cost is that to people's lives and so we started exploring in an R&D and we invited actors together and uh in that first exploration we met moment uh who is one of the actors in the piece and we realised very quickly that we really wanted to work with people who have had a lived experience of their lives being impacted on in some way by the arms trade so we um we just decided that we wanted to find someone who had been a soldier in the British army and we met uh an amazing guy called Alex Eli who unfortunately can't be with us tonight because he's staying on it he has to stay on at work um but an incredible guy who served 10 years in Afghanistan who really wanted to talk about his experience in experience of PTSD and how his life was impacted and then through more development we realised that we really had to bring it back into today into now into something current um and we really couldn't um you know we couldn't run away from the fact that Yemen was being so affected by the sale of arms um to Saudi Arabia from the UK so through a contact with Moomin we managed to find Shadda who is another actress in our play uh who lives in Yemen currently so between the three of them it quickly became an exploration into how do you really get to know each other how do you get to understand this circumstance how do we tell this story from the perspective of their lives so how do you bring the politics into it how do you bring those conversations around you know the chair of um VAE systems and what he does and how much he invests that how do you make that something that the audience can actually um digest you know which is quite a meaty subject to approach it's quite a hard one but um one of the the incredible things actually in the show and the thing that will stay with me I think was the kind of um the human spirit of it so uh when Alex and Moomin when we were in casting it turned out that both of them were techno DJs and they both love love techno so there was this connection through music um and that for different reasons the reasons that absolutely binded them in this kind of relationship so uh for Alex it was a way to express himself and he would play to large crowds for Moomin it was a way of connecting across the aspera connecting with people in Gaza and then finding shadow and understanding that she's an artist and she paints and she spends her time you know her spirit and her creativity was painting uh through through living in Yemen and each each one of them was an artist and they were in right in that time and also that spirit of creativity to get through things was really like helpful it was really like inspiring to have that in the show and shared that so it's that yeah I think that's kind of all I've got to say about is the video speaks for itself that's perfect thank you so much and I think actually the human spirit in techno is a perfect lead into uh what we're about to the videos we're about to share with everybody now uh so I think they're about to pop up just in a second we've got a trailer and we've got a backstage kind of video about the process it's officially DOS one on the diaspora with that this music man with that techno I would never ever have any of them so I know what you're feeling um she couldn't understand that I was not my choice I asked myself um I said yeah yeah 10 p.m on sunday april 22nd 2018 south european f-16 typhoon airplane dropped a missile on a wedding celebration in al-rakha village bani gays district of yemen I witnessed vandal al-sabi we were dancing happily like any other people who had a wedding it was a happy time and people were happy okay this is my friend Alex okay and this is my self movement okay we're gonna go and attack that point you're gonna stand behind us and film everything make sure you stand behind us and stay safe okay the uk arms trade and the uk is placed within selling arms and weapons around the world it's told from a perspective of a former british soldier who served in afghanistan um palestinian actor and a yemeni artist and it's from all their different perspectives on what it means to be affected by the arms trade both of us being in a space learning about each other I think that's very personal so this is this is what the show about basically about me and Alex not knowing each other but we consider each other as an enemy before we even meet and then when we meet we talk to each other we find a lot of things in common between each us both muckman and alex are techno DJs so there's a very strong level of music and art and what what it means to have a kind of cultural resistance there's robotics and there's lasers it's quite a visual show so it's very immersive you're in it all the time and it happens all around you so yeah it's quite an experience when you come into the show you are interactive or dismember so you'll be interactive with myself and mormon and you'll be playing a part of the story you will be a part of the story basically it's really about being inclusive as a group it's not just I'm on stage as an actor and you're not a dismember we're all on a journey together it makes sense because we can do on the radio the town that's a lot they're there the struggle for commonwealth it's really important for us to work right in the heart of communities and to take theater right into spaces where people might not normally go so going to bike a community center and being in Bradford and home would be a center being really really important for us because it just places the stars right in the heart it's personal it's touching on our daily life and I believe the audience is going to walk out from this show also touching their own best life okay so now we are back so I have the honor of introducing Shadda Momen who are also from the cast of I Have an Enemy I've met the enemy and I would like to ask first of all if you could just introduce yourselves for for the audience so can we start with you Momen? Oh you start with me okay um hello everyone my name is Momen and I'm a Palestinian base in London who graduated from the freedom theater Jineen under the matter of Juliano Merhamis who were assassinated in in 2011 outside the doorstep of the freedom theater where I'm saying this because it's something really important in my life so um yeah and I'm a theater actor writer and um and curator I'm in Jineen right now live from Jineen thank you so much Momen and that's Shadda please hi um I'm a visual artist I live in Sanaa Yemen uh I started I've started my artwork since 2014 uh after I got married from the Biennale Sauberbaumatraf I have a lot of art galleries in and outside Yemen and also I have shared artwork with my husband actually I studied IT but I do the art because I'm passionate about it's uh also a way to express the feelings that I have that's that's it absolutely incredible thank you so much it's such a wonderful experience to have you all here um so I'd like to start off a question for you Shadda if that's okay um if I'm right I'd if I'm right um in your your role in um um I have an enemy I've met the enemy it was your first uh was your theatrical debut no um and I'd like to know like what it was like working on the show with Commonwealth and like generally what would you experience how did you how did you progress Commonwealth um actually I was nominated by uh among other female Yemeni artist by Kumra film who is uh in a collaboration with Commonwealth so we were through uh interviews and luckily I was chosen and I might I think that I maybe have been chosen because I have uh several experience and stories that are uh related directly to the world especially to the UK entree as you might know my house has been destroyed after I have got an airstrike uh that's uh yeah um I'm so sorry I'm so sorry to hear that yeah and uh about uh my first um uh you know as a uh this is the first time for me to uh to be in a stage even in a screen for a pre-recorded scene uh because uh as a painter I used to uh to use the brush to express so from the stage of the I have met the enemy it was a turning point for me to learn uh different perspectives and uh how to interpret my feelings and uh what I've been through uh in a different and totally different way and uh yeah it was so cool and uh especially when the workshops were like having two kinds of communication and they were so open and kind and two ideas and I was I felt really uh involved in giving ideas and thoughts yeah it was very cool Oh that sounds unreal amazing can you tell me a little bit more about how it was working with um those two forms of communication because obviously you were rehearsing and doing the workshop for distance now uh yes uh you uh you know because of the visa it's very hard to travel so we decided that uh we can we cannot stop uh we cannot stop to share ideas and experience through even online so uh the first days we started to uh script in the scenarios and uh online and decided to gather how we do it so after that we uh uh we filmed the scenes the match scenes and the um uh the other required scenes uh in the in comera films uh uh yeah that's and we were sending them the videos uh uh up to date so there is any uh additions or any mistakes that we can remake it uh again before the big day that sounds unreal I love the moment in the in the video that we've just seen with this beautiful choreography at the screen with the video with you on it's incredible it's like yeah that's that's how you overcome borders physical and invisible borders with through theater that's really amazing uh thank you so much Shana um so um moment could you tell me a little bit about how you came uh how you came to work with um Commonwealth and what was the experience like for you working on i have met an enemy um I joined the production from very early beginning of it and actually the process was quite long one like in terms of like based on my experience based on my little small experience in theater this is like the longest process of working on on on on theater production and uh usually you know the classic theater production goes off like two months rehearsal and then one month performance season or two months or something like this but this this was quite like about two years you know so um so um I I give I phone call uh Rhiannon and I ask her about the because they were looking for for um for actor it was not necessarily have to be like a Palestinian or whatever it was just they were looking for actor and and then I got in touch with Rhiannon and I give I called her and then she said okay drop me an email and and then um so and then I did and then she invite me for the first R&D and chapter theater and and then um and then we spend one week and and and I think we we did like a whole show in that one week and um and uh with with other actor they were really nice and and but and then I think the team um Rhiannon and Evie decided to do go with it with people who have a personal experience of and personal effective uh from the arm trade so and that was uh that was sort of in my base because for me this is really interesting you know like this is this is this is this is the company also I want to work with you know that that uh that care about about personal experience of the performer itself you know and not imposing ideas from from their own creative mind uh which was basically that that how I joined the whole production and then went on and on and on and all the way up till now you mentioned in the video that uh working on the show is a very personal experience not just for you but for pretty much everybody involved in the creation of that have you got anything else that you'd like to share with us regarding that like was there a specific aspect of the content of the show that kind of drew you um to to wanting to really be there and have your voice heard and to be there working on the production of Commonwealth I think I think that work not like the work is pretty unique because because they give you the space as a performer to to to to draw your own attention on your own life from your own life uh experience and and this is such a something I think we we deeply need in the creative industry especially in in the cinema also in the in the screen because the power of the screen is always hidden behind one man or one woman idea but but but uh if we open up into in term of sharing and and and and combining or or like going to an emotional journey to the performer itself that will be another another side of it you know and we will see the the truth through it you know so this is for me is something I really I really uh admire and and I really want to want to go for in the future and in the coming productions I I do love the art for the sake of art but for me it's something you know maybe after you know like like maybe something for myself but if you want to share and waste public time and public money I think you need to be asked to to uh to uh to create an ideas in order to change and and and and because of that you need to have you need to have like um you need to you need to have like an impact on on those people who are performing in order to have an impact in the audience so um so yeah I do I do think like strongly believe that um that that things should be personal uh with with um uh when when it's come to the stage and and and they should they should talk about something real yeah thank you so much um and I think that's what I mean from what I think from what I've seen from what I've read and heard and everything like I have met the enemy it seems very much that it does that wonderful thing that I think that all political art should do which is link the deeply personal to the the you know on the micro to the macro scale of the things like such as the global arms trade and how it's infecting each individual and as Rihanna and Nivi was saying earlier with human spirit to be allowed to go through the play and to to lead the play um it's a very interesting point you make actually with if you're using public money public funding then like it's a big question isn't it and it's something that we always thinking about and always trying to promote that if you're using this money then the community has to benefit in some in some shading absolutely because it is for yeah exactly um before we move on I wanted to ask um this question is both for you and Rihanna and Nivi um so moment mentioned the roughly like two year process of making this show could you tell us a share a little bit about that I'm really really curious because that is that sounds wonderful um I think yeah it was it was brilliant I think we always knew when we were going to approach something like the arms trade that it needed time and it was going to be difficult and some things come very fast with theater and we knew with this we wanted to be really deep and we wanted to go far with it and we worked with an incredible visual artist called Robert Thompson who made 72 metronomes that were wireless devices to represent the 72 Eurofighter jets um that were sold from the UK to Saudi Arabia and then used in Yemen so we that was a big process as well was finding out how what do these metronomes do what can we do so the whole way through the process it was there was like lines going on of like the people and the personal and the experience and then the technology that we were working with and the art and how we brought those together and then the politics and the research and trying to bring all of us together we just knew we kind of knew from the outset we didn't want to wish that and we wanted to give that time yeah I think it's like it's interrogation it's like how do you really interrogate the politics of it which is massive like huge and you know how do you dig deeper deeper deeper every time and then how do you interrogate the way to tell the story in the way that it feels right as well because in the early days like we were interviewing friends and family about their connection with the arms trade and you know it was it was I guess there was loads of incarnations of all the show could be and how that could fit and yeah when we finally met the the performers we knew that that was the right journey that we had to go on but we had to go on another journey to find the performers you know before we even got there but I think um I think theater should be interrogating like it should we should interrogate practice as well as politics and it should take time um yeah because those things aren't flippant do you know what I mean they have to have some depth to them you can't just be like you can't just rock up somewhere on a site and be like oh this fits because it's empty is that how it like even the choice every choice is looked at in great detail with us I think like one of many things like um with with with besna and I think we have a lot in common with commonwealth in this regard in regards to like when we make theater there isn't just a one and you know moment was mentioning it as well earlier when he was when he answered the question like it's always about a burning need to talk about something like there is an urgency and I think urgency is probably a reasonably well-fitting word for that for this context and I just though we've touched on that a little bit I just wanted to to talk about if anybody else wants to mention any other like burning need because I think more people are aware maybe um of the impact of what war does abroad but also like there's there's always the connection like what's happening in the UK where the weapons are produced and that this complicity somebody mentioned complicity earlier a complicity in allowing it to happen because what would happen if the factories weren't what would happen if workers suddenly refused to make those weapons like have that like has happened in the past but so um so again for Evie and Rhiannon like what was for you what was the inception what was the starting point for like okay we need to talk about the British I think the sorry yeah I think it was basically just about so many people but it's really centered in the UK and so often to say oh it's happening over there but to bring it really local and bring it really home to be like this is happening here and we need to talk about this and that was the urgency and it still is and obviously we know the way that the Amstrad operates is in this very sick way where it's very invisible and it's very kind of stylized so it makes it kind of like this glamorous thing and actually being able to connect with dots and being able to connect what what that means here it means economy and then it's like well what does our economy mean around the world but actually being able to really kind of center that it's a UK it's a UK the UK is the ballast I also I would say like trying to challenge maybe some of society's beliefs around like very crassly like who the enemy is you know like it's really easy to pit people against each other but actually you know my brother um did some time in Afghanistan and he had loads of Afghani friends and would talk about um swapping cans of coke for Afghani weed you know but like this kind of like yeah it's really easy to pit people against each other but what happens when you bring them together to have these conversations there's a lot more commonality and similarity um around experience and life and you know what's happening happening in the UK to our working half lads we get sent to the front line that's still a question you know Alex's experience having Alex in in the show is a really incredible experience for all of us I think it was incredible meeting him in the casting it was incredible seeing his moments relationship develop and one of the moments that would stay will stay with me forever is like a moment where um Shadow and Alex were having a conversation around Alex's mum and what Alex's mum thought about the time he signed up to the army you know very personal kind of family relationships you know and we can all relate to that um they're just feeling that connection of the welfare really really special like to challenge that and again we come back to that really really important point of creating international solidarity and not just keeping it insular but also trying to expand out across all forms of violent borders um I think I think it it also was really important to to raise awareness for the the English community that um that the war is not far you know because they they they you know they convert the general conversation that going around and among young people in England that there's there's a war there's a war you know uh and we are in a war with Afghanistan but actually in the actual ground they don't feel it in the in the daily life because there's no um there's no impact on this you know but but this production is is absolutely rang the bell of of of the audience who attend that actually the factory that make this weapon is around the corner yeah so we are in gold so that was really interesting going to rise and and also to see Alex who's one of of the English community and and um sharing his personal experience uh on on what it feels to be in Afghanistan in a place that he have no idea what is it about you know and he don't speak the language of and and bring it back uh with him to to share it with his um with his community was it was I think the audience left um with a lot of uh awareness and that's that was really important for me and not only solidarity because because solidarity sometime you need to you need to ask before to stand on solidarity with somebody maybe this somebody doesn't need your solidarity you know maybe need your your understanding more more than your solidarity you know i mean so that was really interesting yeah i'd like to talk a bit a bit more about that like what was it like for the for the all three of you unfortunately Alex couldn't make it tonight but um maybe i'd like to hear um both your both your opinion Shadda and the moment on like what it was like to work with um the three of you together in the in the rehearsal room creating the show where you may come from maybe different and context but also incredibly interlinked at the same time that's I think that is a really fascinating and really important thing so can we start with you Shadda? As I mentioned before I started the first day we started to script the scenario together so and after that we decided to uh focus on my house before and after the airstrikes and how to engage people or the audience to live the moment so by welcoming them to my house and inviting them to a cup of tea and playing a classical music of my life and after we agreed on everything we started filming the scenarios on the comra film and uh uh yeah it was very challenging for me because um uh I have uh my aberian ambience will be in a pre-recorded so I have to make sure that I have uh an eye of contact with the camera and also um I count the seconds when I talk count the seconds when I have to be silent and react naturally so yeah and unfortunately I couldn't see the feedback of the audience throughout the play so I could only see it through Twitter and Instagram but I'm also grateful from the team they were uh uh sending me uh videos small videos of the audience why clubbing after the play was finished and it was it was really happy because uh so it really uh when the people uh felt I'm really part of the show even if I'm not I'm not really there physically I mean I think even if you appeared in a different form you were definitely present I think and I think Evian Riannon and Norman would definitely agree um would you like anything on on to that with your your experience again through the process working with Shada and Alex it was like um the whole process was a big learning process for me like um uh I I I never been in Yemen uh even though Yemen is just across the Red Sea from here like south from where I am you know but because of the um difficulty of the freedom of movement in the Middle East and and and Asia and and North Africa it would make it really difficult for me to make it to Yemen but I did learn a lot from uh from um you know working with Sergeant with uh you know like working on the production with with the combat team and the communication it was really important to communicate um and um and then the next level was basically to me like to be on the same room with an ex-soldier uh you know like uh who who served in Afghanistan and and Yemen and sorry in Iraq even though like as a Palestinian I always bought myself in a place that I have to defend everything you know I had to defend myself I had to defend uh my idea I had to to to to explain myself a lot to to um to people who I meet all the time in Europe uh and in the UK and America and and and trying to change ideas about how they think of me you know but with Alex it wasn't this way at all it was like it was it was just uh we had to share like uh our our passion of of music and that was and that was the the click you know and um and I and I felt that for the first time in the stage I don't have to explain myself you know and and uh I just need to to to to talk about my personal uh experience and that was that was really a relief it was it was a big relief for me as a as an actor in the stage who had experience to be on the stage before uh but this time it was it was like completely I don't have to explain anything about myself so that was that was that was for me really interesting and I get thank you so much both of you and that comes back to an idea we discussed earlier uh it was you Rhian and that mentioned the idea that we have to interrogate in question practice as well as the content and the actual outcome of the show the actual product and I think this is this is a thing that actually I think if we had to write a definition of like I don't really like those of political theater that I definitely think like practice is just as important as what actually comes out at the end of the stage on the stage at the end um and I mean I just think yeah it sounds really really incredible um so um one thing I'd like to move on to another question if that's okay um um basically one thing that I really want us to interrogate a little bit more in this discussion before before we finish is is the research that you all discovered together I'm not entirely sure if you were all together right at the beginning of the research or like people dropped in as throughout the whole process but basically like if we had to key ideas um for the British audience about what they should know about the British arms trade and um its connection with basically British colonialism which we've slow we've touched on a little bit already um Rhiannon would you like to start that's a juicy question isn't it um I guess it like the thing the thing that I find like the the thing that I was touching on earlier around campaigning against the arms trade and that kind of understanding that arms are made in this country and they're made very close to us um it's very complex because actually it's people it's jobs with British people you know and there's an argument there around jobs and ethical jobs and you know there's all of that there um I think uh back 10 10 years ago um an ex-boyfriend of mine was involved in a spectrum in Brighton it was an arms factory called EDO yeah EDO once EDO and EDO was um making uh release mechanisms to release uh problematic scene that they were using in Gaza and at the time a group of activists went into the arms factory and they smashed it up and caused a quarter of a million pounds worth of damage which was an incredible action that basically you know was it closed down the factory uh it went to court on a trial for three months um you know it was raised in in like nationally it was raised as something but the thing that I find most shocking and the thing that I find most impenetrable is that the fact that you didn't cease to make weapons it continued to and does continue to make weapons so even you know when we're doing these actions like these massive direct actions that absolutely can stop everything the power of the arms trade is continuous like it's really hard to stop the motion of it it's like an impenetrable industry that is really you know we know what we know what we know enough I don't know um during our research um we met up with the campaign against the arms trades and we went through a trial there was being had with um it was a trial saying that Britain was illegally selling weapons to Saudi Arabia you know that was raised in in in the courts and the court said yeah that's happening we're gonna we're gonna hold off on sales but they continue to sell weapons to Saudi Arabia that they continue to use in Yemen so it's kind of like I don't have any answers but I know that the industry is this massive crazy machine and there needs to be new ways to penetrate it and to to rock it and to shift it and yeah that's my feelings about it I don't know if that's even coherent but something around those things for me no I think I think it is very coherent and I think something to take away from that is definitely the idea of how terrifying and impenetrable it actually is as a as a global industry um it's yeah um Evie would you like to let it add anything um only like that we had this really great time with um an artist called Jill Gibbons who has been basically going in disguise into arms pairs for a long time and drawing the activity there and what she talked about and then we incorporated into the play was this idea of like but it's basically like an art show it's like any kind of like fancy networking event where there's no money there's no talk of money but there's a lot of handshakes and performance of power there's a lot of girls giving out canopies it's this very kind of glamourized yeah like I said before like a kind of stylish industry and you see that with the systems and the kind of way that they portray themselves so there's there's a lot in there around like the arms companies and how they sponsor certain events to make themselves look more appealing and how they're kind of the arms companies the arms companies are in every kind of realm of public life um even there's so many things that we kept finding out about where the arms dealers are basically operating and how they kind of ingratiate themselves in public life and in personal life um and that was really interesting because that's the complicity as well that it's always there pensions there's so many things that the our investments and um yeah just our daily lives are kind of contributing in ways that we don't know the banks that we're banking with lots of different schemes and systems within them are feeding in the arms for a bigger picture and we just you know don't know about or don't look to that and don't understand so I think that was yeah a big thing and then also just like to add to that is that I think it's worth saying that we're not experts at the arms trade and actually part of the process is us learning about it as well and and that definitely is something that is I mean that yeah it's so complex but like that whole kind of learning and kind of understanding unravels through the breaking of the show through the show and continues to unravel as we as we work and don't work on the show which I mean it's like a huge thing um yeah again this idea of the practice that as a key part of the political theatre like it's not again not just about what the show is at the end but also the the process and the I guess in some ways I mean I certainly with Bessner we've had many moments where we've had an idea we wanted to explore something that we had this need but then also there is this the process of making the show politicizes one and the entire team together which you know I think is is is incredible um moment would you want to add anything to um the key aspects of the research anything that you think would be really key for the audience listening tonight to know yeah it was it was like absolutely was a self-emotional journey before before it would be like like a learning journey to myself you know it was it was like going into myself and researching who I am really you know like where I stand in in all of this you know I really want to be on the stage with an ex-British soldier this is against my value as a Palestinian you know uh do I do I really want to be um uh on the stage again and explaining myself as a victim you know and so on and so on so that was that was like a really massive research and and research you know underneath um the the actual topic research or the team research you know so it was it was like um so I managed to overcome I agree with myself before before really like going ahead with being sharing like a personal story in again and and and being careful that when I share this personal story that I'm not sharing for the fact of of of another um another show where people are going to go home feeling sorry about me you know uh so we did manage with the help of of Rihanna and Evie and and we did manage to to sort of step away from from this trap you know and and and the rest it was it was a very interesting research of of basically um uh to to see like to see what like how like like like how many family in the UK for example benefit actually uh from from the the arm factory in a new castle and and and and and and and you know and it was it was it was real you know it was real because because we faces audiences who who related in a in a way that to to um to the factories you know or they know somebody who benefits from those factories so that that that brought the whole process to life you know and and um and yeah it was it was a lot of learning process it was it was learning of you know like working in a longer project in the first fall you know like it was you know discovery of of working in a completely in you format of documentary theater it was in you to also working with with somebody who never been on the stage and and you have to be on the stage with you know so it was it was it was all of this learning and discovery and meeting a lot of community cast going to community places uh that that they not expose the theater within the British community even though we have the idea in Palestine that the British theater is very unique and and and have a deep culture you know but when you go to places around outside of London and and and you find out like oh okay well there's there's a lot of community to be reached out you know so it was it was all of this basically it was a lot of a lot of research and a lot of interesting things sorry the the shout of the braille now you can't hear it I really love what you said at the moment about um the personal research like that you have to do because I think I think for everyone involved in the process of making the show everyone from the stage managers to the lighting designer everyone was reflecting on the entire time and they again they were completely like they're completely with the making of the show and their position and the country they live in and you know all of that it was constant like reflection yeah and then in the in the big in the big image like there's a small small production we did which we where we have to shoot the scene with uh with Sergio you know like in in in Yemen and and and we have to do like a like a teamwork really in a close the close the close um details you know with uh with the team of camera film and that was also another research like to how we shoot like a fiction within a documentary theater like a completely experimental but it's it's real that was one of our most historical days that day it was in Evie's house and then we were filming the trailer for the show downstairs in the basement that's right you were like on the on the computer to camera films like talking about shadow and like trying to get the pictures together and the video together we just kept swapping it felt really like active again yeah that's what I think I think that should be in at least in my opinion there should be that definite sensation and that that kind of like um feeling when you're making political theater work again like activism you know and that they there should there should be they should be definitely running in parallel and joining if not entirely altogether at least there should be correspondence between those two those two actions tada I'd like to it would be really interesting to hear your perspective on the research from the other way around because we were looking at the research from UK out but from the Yemen perspective did you find out anything during the making of the show from the other way around to me as an individual six years of my life have been wasted and it's not easy to see my dreams and ambitions are waiting or surrounded by boundaries I mean international or so um each year we we suffer from different family and different and raising raising our goods that are bargaining on our with our suffering so the theater or a project is a smart tool to shed light the the life of that effect 30 million Yemeni are affected from this war in a very artistic and creative way that is near to the audience hearts one yeah that that is incredible and I'd like yeah I mean I remember when the lockdown started to happen also in the UK when was that that March April May sometime when Boris Johnson announced the the the quarantine the lockdown will happen in that same day the UK also issued a huge renewed a huge arms contract and sold a lot more planes to Saudi Arabia and other places and I just thought that that was a very jarring effect when masses of people were made unemployed the country's being shut down for the vast majority yeah there's still always a priority you know and the priority is never the people the priority is always maybe it's just profit I always think is it goes beyond profit but yeah I think I'm really glad to hear that shadow you also believe that it can be an incredible tool to to to share and to activate and to ignite I guess awareness and on that point because that actually brings me on to my last question for everybody on times of like if and this is to everybody you can just jump in whenever you've got something to say but for those in the audience there are curious about making political theatre and what advice or what not necessarily advice but like any key points that you would say or share with everybody because to me in my mind there's always a difference between political theatre and theatre about politics you know like chamber plays about what you know politicians are getting up to and stuff and I don't really feel that that is actually that doesn't really have necessarily a place in what we've been discussing tonight I don't know whether you agree on that but yeah who would like to jump in for that question I don't mind to go um I think I think for me my advice would be like to think of the whole picture that it's not just about the production or the play that you're making but it's the layers that sit around it so it's who's making it it's where it's going to be who the audience why you're doing it why you're saying it now like what how can it be very complex in the kind of talent of the story and how how can it be the most genuine story like the most real element because I think it's really easy to build something from our own assumptions like to reason this is this is right but how do you bring in lots of versions of the story and lots of kind of dimensions of it to um really ask questions for the audience and make them feel like that's why the emotional school is so important to us is like make people feel and connect on a human level bring the politics in through that human connection and human sharing of what the area is and what it can be thank you does anybody else want to add anything to that um I think uh such or uh it's very important uh especially for people who are living in the world about our countries like Britain so at least they get the chance to to know that their uh international strategies strategies are affecting the lives that lives in the conflict so um I guess people in Britain have normal life uh proper education uh the health care system is good and at least they feel secure and uh they might not be conflicted in Yemen but maybe they're not aware that their their country is has a rule in this conflict so um I believe that maybe uh the whole world maybe now understands how the the life in the war-torn countries like uh like Yemen and after the during the last seven months when the whole the whole world got affected from the COVID-19 pandemic so all the airports are closed and and food and even moving from cities to cities uh it became very difficult so this is what we have been through since the last six years in Yemen and uh you cannot know how it is until you try and this is what I want to do and so um uh I I think I I'm sure through this project or theater and with the pandemics we can finally uh convey a message uh how the and how the lives of the affected the areas and the other parts of the world absolutely thank you so much I those very beautiful moving words um especially in a time when as you said in the pandemic where art is suffering hugely especially in the UK theater has gone through a horrendous situation and I hope that if only those that dish out the money uh and the support um could have heard what you said about um the importance of of theater and like its potential role in helping and ignite change and if your moment did you have anything else to add any closing comments or anything you'd like to share um in terms of advice I'd just say like the most important thing is to really listen and listen to the people that you're working with and listen to the process and the things that happen the accidents or just like the connection that we had with Shadda suddenly that gave us a whole new picture of what the play needed to be so like like Riannon said you can't go in thinking there's a fixed picture like this is what the play is but to always be listening and evolving and responding to the people that you're meeting and the people that you're working with and knowing like actually it was really nice to hear you ventured out because actually it brings the urgency back of like why you're doing it always knowing why you're doing it and what you're doing it for and that you have like a purpose and I think that's really important you just need to keep listening and absorbing that all the time and so yeah that's that would be my advice for theater makers would be to listen and absorb and respond and take action listen absorb respond take action yeah you always have to have the action at the end of it but you always have to be listening to so many things and influences yeah I'm sure Matt Lincoln admires well I think I think for me it was like the safety you know like making a political theater is it can be it can like open an eye on you and on you as an individual or as a company you know and you need to be very aware of this so in the beginning when I introduced myself I mentioned Juliano Merhamis who were assassinated and he didn't he didn't get assassinated because because he want to get assassinated he obviously get assassinated because he was a he was a lead of the first community political theater to be open in the north of Palestine after the second in Tifada and you can hear it's perfect hello sorry I think that's somebody calling me telling me not to say anything but but yeah so basically he was assassinated because of his political work and because of the effects that he had managed to do in a small community in inside inside the West Bank you know until now his his his gunman the one who shot him down have not been found yet and that's also give you a clear idea like why in the middle of the day somebody will be killed and until now with two government we are under two government here in the West Bank politically we are under the Palestinian B8 and we are under the Israeli colonization and those two governments you know have not open a case yet you know so basically this is this is for me is really important if you want to make a political theater and and and you and you are actually willing to stand among the community and create a change inside the community you need to be very aware and careful how to do that because because this is can motivate people in in many different way thank you so much I mean that also brings back to a previous point you're saying moment about the idea isn't to create sympathy but we always talk about investment of like of of of creating and I think igniting empathy which is significantly different it's completely different the idea of empathy as opposed to sympathy and that that you can't create that without listening as Rihanna Evie and Shada also said and also being just actually responding and never going in with the and endgaming as an assumption I could go on for hours and unfortunately we have to stop but I want to say thank you so much again for all of you joining us and taking the time it's been an absolute honor and at least for me it's been unbelievably empowering and inspiring to listen to all of you and your experiences and I really wish that you continue making the incredible work you're all making and that we will see you on the front line that was fantastic thank you very much thank you thanks for having us