 Hi, some of you have met me earlier at lunch time to Megan. I'm on the Alliance for Community North East Board Part of the program committee, but I'm really excited about this conversation because it's with three people that I count as friends I highly respect them as professionals and I Have been part of two of their boards And talking to another one about developing boards. So when this topic came up I was like, wait, I got the perfect group of people. I hope you will think that as well I'm just gonna position myself out of the way over here So While We all think about how to develop an organization your board is an integral part of that development and I think all of them have a different point of view from developing boards and based on their history When I met Holly Greschner, she was the president and CEO at Vermont Public Television I was part of the community advisory board not your board of directors My through my role at then Lyndon State, which is where I met Donna Which is my representation on the catamount board with Jody see how this all gets really small but What I was impressed by with Holly was the importance of Not just having a board of directors that oversaw the station but having this community advisory board that kept them The station Integrated with the community. They would share with us their programming slate their community initiatives They're marketing initiatives and ask us for feedback before they sort of rolled some of the stuff out or as they were beginning to roll that out and The fellow advisory board members were from all different walks of life You know, I was there even though I was a video guy. I was an educator but there were folks there with no video experience at all because Not everybody that watches public television is a TV producer or a TV instructor, so I thought that was very interesting and very respectful In a minute, I'm gonna let her tell you a little bit more about what she's doing with access to broadband and I think Digital equity is an essential part of what community media needs to have as a partner because we can't Distribute our content if people don't have smart Infrastructure that's responsive to the to the consumer and what I mean by that is I My upload speeds and download speeds working. Can I get other information besides just a video signal? so Holly do you want to tell everybody what you're up to now, so they have a little Base of understanding of where you've been coming from Hi everybody So yes, I was the president of Vermont public now Vermont public Vermont public television It was my strategy to bring radio and TV together because in the public media world your platform Does not define you your content does so That is an experiment that seems to be extremely successful hats off to Scott Finn and Then I am really a Telecom lawyer in disguise So I have 30 years of working with the FCC and the regulations behind the FCC and All things related to distribution of cell phones and broadband so when the state set up the Matt of the organization to Distribute ARPA funds anybody heard of ARPA funds I was fortunate enough to be appointed by the house to be their representative on the committee to distribute those funds and We're looking at 232 million right now, but we are applying for what's called bead funds right now And bead funds will be Hopefully many millions more My personal focus I live in a little place called Cookville, Vermont and when COVID hit The school principal Couldn't Support her students without taking buses into the community with Wi-Fi Wi-Fi distribution on the bus and we talked about how many households were completely disconnected from media During COVID and that's how I got involved in equity and broadband That's a lot and that's enough of the story I guess Well, I think it's a it's a perfect part of the story because it's about how our communities Not only get information through our channels, but how they get it through the infrastructure When I was teaching I still am teaching at now Vermont State University Lyndon Johnson Castleton Vermont Tech all one big happy family now or Soon to be happy family. We're trying. We're getting happier as we'll see Donna will keep checking my pulse to see if I'm happy, but Donna was teaching in our communications program communications and journalism where we have news seven Really a long-term project that maybe you can talk about Donna and David and and Darlene and David and how they built that but the idea that a community news oriented Institution in a place where there's not a lot of communications the Northeast Kingdom is somewhere between You know Montreal Burlington Manchester and Portland, so there's no big major media outlet. How is news shared? So it was refreshing to see someone that came from network news to want to teach young people about how to be a committed journalist now at Pinkerton Academy Building out their video program There's a challenge for her to think about creating a board and so the conversation about how do we look at and that's what we'll talk about Once I introduce everybody How you look at what is a board good board member? What how do you find board members when you haven't done this before Jody and Holly have Donna's I think gonna be the Learning here a little board school But tell them a little bit about why you wanted to move to Pinkerton after being in media and being in college Why you wanted to go back into the back to high school? Hello, everybody. I'm Donna Koskala So as Tim was saying I'm a video production teacher at Pinkerton Academy, which is a The largest independent like this to share this little fun fact largest independent high school in the nation We have over 3,000 students in our school It's a private school, but we are the public high school for five communities in southern, New Hampshire I grew up in that area that that was one of my reasons for coming going back like people always ask me all the time Why did you leave a I was a tenured associate assistant professor at Vermont State University? They're like, well, why did you leave to go to high school? So I had a multitude of reasons Some of which are probably obvious, you know Lyndon's gone through some transitions over the past few years for those of you from Vermont And I was a little nervous about that so and I'm from New Hampshire So I wanted to get closer to my family and you know sharing love of of creating is you know Whether it's journalism or film or commercial production Whatever it is has always been a passion of mine And this opportunity was a way for me to try something different and and maybe bring some of my journalistic background So I spent 12 years at WMUR in Manchester, New Hampshire as a news producer an associate producer For a show I was a newscast producer for seven or eight years and then I switched to a show called New Hampshire Chronicle Which is a magazine sort of lifestyle show and then I went to Lyndon in 2010 And got hired because I went to Lyndon for my undergrad and so I was I was approached by then A David Blue and Darling Bullduck who were running the program and were my former professors to bring my journalistic experience To Lyndon and to add to their Their program so for those of you who aren't familiar with that Lyndon at the time and it's it's a changed Sense but at the time when I started in 2010 did a daily live newscast for the Northeast Kingdom the only news here in Vermont Commercial broadcast news other than public television public radio was the commercial entities They're all located over here on this side of the state To say that they didn't come over to the Northeast Kingdom that much is probably safe Unless there was some huge story happening like when Burke Mountain got bought out and all that Fiasco happened that I know that the stations would come over but mostly the day-to-day News happening in that little corner of Vermont was going unnoticed or uncovered So the program at Lyndon was really unique in that we wore the community media We we did a daily live newscast that was shared out on Which was called Kingdom Access television. Is it still Kingdom Access? So the the community media for the Northeast Kingdom and so that was a great opportunity for us to Give back to the community to give the community their daily dose to teach future journalists You know and to to give them a what we used to refer to it as a lab But it was a real-life day-to-day experience of what it was like to be a working journalist while providing a service to them to the community at Large I think at the time we were serving some four or five thousand households that could get our show through Kingdom Kingdom Access television Loved that experience. I went through it as a student But as I said the school went through some changes and I felt it was time to move on and it came across this opportunity At Pinkerton Academy where I am now where I'm trying to build a program that Traditionally had been a film program. I the prior instructor was a film guy. I'm a television broadcast person So I've been evolving the program. I started in the fall of 2019 We all know what happened by January of 2020 or March of 2020 So my first year and going from college to high school if anyone's ever been in education It's a it's vastly different and so Dealing with that change and then all of a sudden we're in the middle of a pandemic and I have to Totally kind of put all my ideas on hold while we sort of progress through the pandemic So getting outside of the pandemic, you know within the last two or three years I'm really starting to look at the program and finding ways to meld that Those who probably still want to do movies But I'm also starting to build a broadcast program and I'm working And I have worked with our community access channel in dairy dairy community access media And building a board so we have an advisory board that Serves every career and technical education program at Pinkerton We have to have it's actually required by the state that we have an advisory panel that supports us To make sure we're doing what what? The industry needs we're teaching the kids what they you know what the industry needs and they're keeping me Accountable for Updated equipment. Are you using the right? You know equipment? Are you teaching the kids what they know? So I've I've struggled I mean COVID was part of that with building my my advisory and so that's sort of my background Is that I'm in this process of trying to build out a strong advisory board that will help Support the program and grow the program in a way that is Positive and and that is hopefully helpful to in the end the students Thank You Donna And then starting out in the advisory world when I was at Lyndon teaching with Donna I was asked by my department chair to be on the advisory board of this Exciting little organization as he called it catamount arts. Some of you in Vermont may know it a bit Some of you may know it. Well, I call it the preeminent arts organization in Northeast Kingdom and Northern New Hamp in northern Vermont, New Hampshire because they actually now do programming in New Hampshire Jody freed is the executive director there. He is as well the executive director of the Vermont leadership Institute Is that your official title? Director not executive director. Just he just directs everything. Um, I Had opportunity to then be on his board. I think I'm on my fifth president without you convincing me to be a president of your board which Trust me, I would love to you know I would but I think I was better served as your treasurer during covid. There's lots of covid stories to be had here But what I love about Jody is That he understands Not just the love of arts for creators But how important arts is as economic development is as tourism is as a Motivator for businesses to be engaged in their community when they can partner with arts I was proud to work with Jody. We actually have a mobile stage. That's at dog mountain Some of you may may or may not know I'm gonna have Jody talk a little bit about that That we created then we're able to have opportunity to get through another grant to have a mobile stage So now to mobile stages going into the community helping communities put on festivals concerts anything that drives folks into Small town rural New Hampshire co-ass in Crafting County Small town Northeast Kingdom And so I got an understanding of His sense of business his sense of arts and his sense of community Jody talk a little bit about Maybe the mobile stages and how that's been something that's helped catamount sort of change its infrastructure from a Arts facility based arts organization to sort of a wide-ranging nonprofit And I'm gonna go close that back door Hi everyone Jody freed And as Tim said, I've been executive director at catamount film and arts for 15 years now Which is it's a time has flown and for the past five years Been at the Vermont leadership Institute, but also during that time period still do and have served on many many different boards I'll just say before I get to specifically the mobile stages in terms of career Spent about a decade in Private corporate world working in finance Then when the entrepreneurial route and went into business for myself in the Northeast Kingdom of Vermont For about ten years Before joining catamount and I came to catamount really as an engaged business leader Community development was my interest Art was my passion But not as an artist the vehicle was through community development And how could we create an ecosystem across northern Vermont northern, New Hampshire that was at its core based around creativity? And how could we build the economy throughout that region with that at its core? And it that's what we've spent the past 15 years focusing on and one of the initiatives that Tim brought up Was the mobile stage which was an experiment we started We got one stage we worked with the college and so there's a music business industry program at the college and we Decided that we would create a workplace Training ground for the college students where we brought our professional engineers With our mobile stage our sound light equipment essentially the The the lab the students served as the roadies to some degree We had nine of them this past summer to give you the scale of it that worked with us And we did had now have two stages one based out of New Hampshire one based out of Vermont this summer We did 70 outdoor concerts for about 45,000 people all free music spread across the region five nights a week There was a free concert going on that Anybody could attend and we had lots of people that would travel around especially retired They would at base their entire weeks entertainment traveling to different communities, but what's cool if you look at? Economic spending data and you look at the impact that that has you know a Vermont resident will spend about $29 per capita or per person when they go to an event If they're traveling from outside the region that doubles and it's about $60 per person So if a family of four goes into a community to attend one of those events There's a there's a real economic impact that takes place there And that's before you add any multipliers of the money turning over in the economy Based on people's salaries, so we've spent a lot of time building out those programs But come to this with a lens of how do we build at its core? communities that have arts culture creativity Right central to What we're doing, and I think that the work that all of you are doing in your sector is critical to that One other thing I would mention is that in 2016 the Vermont legislature formed the Vermont creative network, and I don't know how many of you have participated with that But it was actually a legislative initiative to mirror the farm to plate network that had been so successful in agriculture And I've chaired that steering committee for that board now since it was put put in place by the legislature And we have a strategic plan for the whole state of Vermont And we look across sectors and and one of the things I think of when I think of your group and think of board members think of The future for the work that you're doing Is how can we activate that entire network so that the content is being driven locally? So that you have this constant fountain through our communities of our artists our creatives that are working in our community That are then flowing Through your screens out into families households because we've built out the infrastructure And so I think there's some real opportunity there because per per capita I think Vermont has the highest concentration of artists and writers and creatives of anywhere In the country and so we should be taking advantage of that for the content that we're putting on our screens So I just wanted to sort of have a little bit of an introduction, but also Have it be a little more personal because I think board development is personal So what we're gonna do is I'm gonna ask them a few questions if you are Ignited by a conversation raise your hand I'm gonna leave some time at the end for Q&A as well, but I don't want this to just be us talking at you We'd love to have you talk with us. So if you do have questions while The panelists are responding just raise your hand and I think they're all comfortable to engage that I think part of for me So one the other day said you oh you're you're busy. What don't you do and I'll answer that with a simple question, which is you know What don't you want to do I want to do everything and so I don't say no I just have to manage my time and I think part of Organizations trying to find board members are people that are willing to carve out some time out of their life I forget the philosopher. There's a great philosophy you're talking about that there is your home And there's your work and then there's the third place that you enjoy and in the British philosophy It's the pub system for me. It's within nonprofit arts nonprofit groups arts entertainment economies Environment I just think it's an important part. So I'm probably a good board member. You can tell you can kick me later if I if I am not one What is a good board member, you know, maybe Jody and Holly you can start because Donna is listening figuring out how to build one Holly you've done this at a high level public television has a lot of light on it You know your board members are usually folks Well-established. How do you what is a good board member? What are some traits that you look for? so I've thought about this topic Tim since you asked and I Have to come at it from a different angle. Are there any executive directors in the room? Oh Bless you Yes, how many hats do you wear? Let's let's begin to count them. So my thought about who's a good board member is Intimately tied to what is it you want your organization to do? Don't take the low-hanging easy fruit, you know Mrs. Smith has been giving for 30 years and she's such a nice lady and she makes cookies for your group and all sorts of things like that Those people are important to whatever you're doing and maybe they belong on your board, but maybe they don't What you really need to know is what is your vision? for the group and what it whatever your group is what is your vision and How can you articulate that effectively? To the people you meet to motivate them to want to join that mission Because what you need to do is build a group of people with a shared vision Some boards need to come together and build a vision as board members, right and I had the privilege of During COVID Blending boards between public radio and public television and that was fascinating because they were very different organizations But I had to tell you a little story I had a very I built a new board when I came into public television I didn't pick the board in the broadband state broadband group. I'm on that was a political process So I'm going to talk about public television a little bit. I Had a terrifying moment after I got my board seats filled a Consultant came in and said why are you here to each of those board members and the board member said I like Holly Oh That was bad news It is important for your board members to feel some camaraderie with you Absolutely, but they actually have to identify with your mission most importantly So yes, you want people that are willing to vote some time But you need to understand what kind of board member you need. Are you looking for a working board? Do you need somebody who can help with the accounting in your group or knows what good governance looks like? lawyers are always handy or Do you need people who are going to reach out in the community and generate? I'm going to say value whether that's dollars content Connections opportunities One of the most connect guys in the entire state is Jody freed and I mean there just isn't anybody who doesn't want to work With Jody free, but he's very good at generating Excitement about what he's doing and so those are the people you want that get excited about your vision So then the good question is Who do you look for Jody? so I think I'll just build on what Holly said and and I Think intersectionality is critically important So everything is just so connected in today's world across systems And so that value that Holly was talking about as you think about your mission and you think about your board Where are there connections across the different systems in in the where whatever your? footprint is Where you can find leverage and create value and as you start to identify those different intersections So it might be that there is an opportunity within The hospital world for you to be featuring health care providers on your stations Then you want to make sure you have somebody who's very well connected within the nursing Or the health care provider world on your board who can then act as an ambassador and get into that system to bring Those folks in and participate with you what happens over time is if you identify those places of intersectionality And there's value and it's shared value that then you'll start to see support in other ways because as they see that you're an important Partner as they see that because of the feature that you're doing on their health care providers that the morale within their staff is going up that as They see that their recruitment numbers are going up because there's feature television or feature You know exposes they can put up in in their recruitment ads Then all of a sudden when you go to ask for sponsorships when you go to look for underwriting for conferences You're gonna have partners there that are also going to be willing to put dollars forward And so over time you develop relationships, but I think What I would say is most important in the work that we've done On a lot of the different boards that have been successful that I've worked with is we've looked for those intersections across systems Where you can identify where you want to based on your vision within your organization and the mission of your organization Develop relationships, and then you start there The individual piece. I agree It's you have to have trusting relationships and you have to get there I would say a big thing with board members and part of the expectation and it's why Tim is a good board member is A board member with an executive director or someone running organization has to be someone who will return the phone call And if they're not willing to at least make that commitment to you or that starts to break down you know you have a problem and and as an executive director or a director you want to Also respect their time and only call them when you need to But when you do it's that when that phone rings You know you're gonna get a phone call back And so when you see an opportunity in that place of intersection where there is something within their sector They know and then you call them that it's not only good for The organization that you're calling from but ultimately it's going to be good for them long-term because it's important to their organization in the sector They represent It creates a balance that over time creates a good board Part of your challenge then is probably at a paper tin When they say start for it, you're gonna get a lot of alumni That's great, but the alumni are not really what you need you need folks outside of the institution How have you been thinking about approaching that? Well, my initial approach was who do I know personally from my experience in the industry in trying to tap those resources, I didn't give them much thought to the whole idea of of you know We're having You look looking for board members that were you know willing to make that time commitment or I was just sort of Honestly have been just going like I just need people to show up. I Just need someone who's gonna show up to my meeting so I don't get in trouble You know because it is a required part of what we have to do but listening to some of the These guys talk about you know what to really look for is making me go Hmm who are the people that want to be invested in and and you know and it's tough in media To get because me media is a very you know busy challenging If I try to find like I have a friend that I went to Lyndon with his name is Kristen's and he runs live free or die films And I've tried to tap him for my board, but he's in he literally is in Hollywood You know and he's a New Hampshire guy, but I went to college with him I know him and you know, that's the kind of person I would want to but I think I think I need to work on my vision Just hearing you guys like what is the vision of my program and that will hopefully lead me to other folks that could support that vision So that's been my struggle is that right now? It's just been like I just need people to show up, but if I'm not presenting them with something Concrete like what that they're gonna want to support then why would they show up, right? So I really think that for me just listening is is to these guys that I'm thinking okay Well now I need to have a plan and a vision and then find the people who would want to work with me to support that So I think thank you for that because and I I'm sort of using you as a Interesting guinea pig here because I think this is helping you But it's also helping everybody else who might be in that same boat as you are that is trying to build an organization In the variety of conference comments that you guys sent me we talked about You know when you focus on a board member is it a science or an art? You know as the science skill sets is the art relationships Let me reverse the order Jody how important you know, do you do you have to flip a coin when you're thinking about where you're at with? You need to make an addition to your board What's more important the skill sets or you know or the relationships the science or the art? So as a person who has been focusing so much time For a long time as to where those two things come together. This is kind of I think the The perfect question as you think about the board because the good boards. There's a magic that occurs and I don't know that you can separate those two things. I think that some of it Does come down to whether or not there can be healthy relationships and you can build boundaries you can have ground rules within your Communication and your group and there is certainly I think within boards, you know that disagreeing is is a good thing and having Conversation, but it has to lead to to moving forward And and by that I mean action I mean it doesn't necessarily mean always growth it might mean that you have to go a different direction completely so I think the art in the science is it's a fascinating question I'll give you a few examples of the way we try and work with this is There's a board that I chaired and that has been a really instrumental that the Northeast games called the Northeast Kingdom collaborative Where we do the alignment of all the strategic plans for the Northeast Kingdom's economic development and community development and There's all these different overlaying Districts and there's the different territories and there's these different organizations that all have these different plans And how do we bring them together? So what we did then that case the science of this as we created a board Diagram where we identified the different industry sectors that we wanted to have represented the different geographic sectors We indicated there were some non voting board members that we wanted to have be a part of that where maybe there was a conflict of interest or there Was a relationship where it couldn't be from the standpoint of our? Finances or other reasons we couldn't have them as voting, but we could have them as advisory board members There were institutions that were in our region that we felt the institution actually needed to have representation So it wasn't even just a sector it came down to an institutional level and we laid that all out And we did it we did it in a nice diagram where we have different concentric circles But it really painted a picture for us and it didn't mean we couldn't make exceptions from it But it created that science piece as to how do we approach that to make sure we're considering? every one of these different sectors these different systems where there's overlap and opportunity and again back to intersectionality and We've done a very similar thing a cat amount And I we try and do that at any board where I'm participating and we do it at different levels is that science piece creating that Some sort of a tool to help you get an inventory of what your board members are From a standpoint of skills sectors industries The art side of it then I think comes down to the individuals that are involved Some of its relationship based some of it is commitment And I think that there's a reality that we've all seen really play out over cove it that we have to understand Which is that the ebb and flow of people's commitment is very much dependent on the world They're living in and so there has to be some expectations about that and then part of the art piece of that is also Just being able to have really honest conversations with board members if they're gonna step back for a period of time Are they gonna step back in if they're not? Or if they don't know you need to know that if you're running the organization or trying to move an organization forward And you need to if their answer is they don't know then you need to stay in constant contact with them to find out where they stand You can't just let it go indefinitely or you'll end up with Having a board of all folks who step back and where you don't know where they stand is a worst-case scenario from a leadership perspective So on that point Hully, you know part of the challenge of public television in most people's mind and maybe I'm Sinking it down to my mind is the challenge is always about fundraising and is a board Folks that have relationships with access to capital But just folks that have access to capital aren't the only type of Relationships that you can have board members build on Well Before you merge the organizations, you know, what what was the important part of of? Non-cash relationships, you're like, okay. I have a bank president that you know I want someone who's gonna say to their their employees. Hey, let's support for my public television. What other types of? Assets can these relationships bring in what specific ones did you sort of look for that? Related to your channel so I think media for communities is very dependent on visibility and So the relationships you pick have to Support or have a have an objective of visibility and Jody mentioned that in mapping out Who should be on the board? Sometimes it might be an institution or some kind of key player or recipient of your media product So that you have real feedback and a conduit But I want to go back to what Jody said and put it in the framework that I'm used to You really need to decide what your matrix is if you if you're not familiar with the term board matrix you need to Google it and Make your plan Because art and science. I actually think that you first you lay down your needs in Science, I don't particularly like this use of the word science, but science as in what? Skill sets here are technical Capacities do you need on your board and then from the people you can find that fit the science then you have to build on Who's got relationships if you can get board members that have both your so far ahead and Sometimes certain skill sets don't lend themselves to relationships If you just play need an accountant on your board or an auditor so that you can some of those people are very In very quiet worlds some of them are not I mean some of the some of the accountants I know are the most active community members in their sphere, but you have to be realistic about who you can get so When you talk about money Sometimes okay, I'm gonna be Permission to be crass Everybody doesn't give me a get out of jail free card. Okay, I Think Jody said it right if you are truly building An invigorated alive Organization it's going to be Inspiring to the people who are involved and they're gonna give When we merged radio and TV Everybody was so afraid that the revenue stream would sink because a lot of people were giving to both It did not sink it increased by 30 percent Why people saw the capacity they saw the potential and They got excited about it and that was that's great so I In choosing board members, you know, I'm at literally going through my Rolodex of board member members I have known and loved You have to be careful The people who are known to have a lot of money get asked all the time and You have to have a really good reason why that person who's Visibly, you know well in Has a capacity as they say Is going to pick your board and you have to know why that person Should be a board member and not a donor Be sure that you're sorting out Whether you have a project or a program that's perfect for a particular donor and this is the stuff of you know Development the development world or whether you have a person who is going to be Excellent at informing and creating and building on your mission That's very very different things I would say that you have to be realistic about trying to get every board member to be a donor at some level One of the things that gets asked and grants a lot and one of the things you need To be able to say to people is that all of your board members give and Sometimes we're a little fuzzy about what that means give something and so I Can say for a fact that I've never gone out and asked For somebody to be a board member just because they had a lot of money ever. It's just not I You have I don't know how you would you agree? Um, I I feel a little bit like I mean I'm very nervous when I start talking to somebody about Being on the board first of all you're talking about somebody if you're an executive director that person's gonna be your boss so, you know Be be aware you want their critical capacity you want their education you want their passion and You're going to live with it because you're about to get married And that's what it's really kind of about and then you have to think about you're not just getting married to that board member you're creating a family a family of board members and it's really wise to know if You know so-and-so has a positive relationship with the people who exist on your board or whether they know each other One board member said to me point blank at the point of conversation about being a board member I want to know who's on your board and who's fun If you don't have fun people on your board, I am not doing it. Yeah We use the fun factor when we talk about boards and It's interesting to see the level of engagement if the fun factor comes up So right now we're doing our gala this week. It's tomorrow at catamount and But we have a lot of board members highly engaged because they're having fun and they're looking forward to that night They're up on you know, they've shown up to like get up on the ladder and hang the lights And you know a hospital or a health care CEO up there on the ladder and I'm holding it going oh my goodness But having such a great time and having fun in that moment and that's you know that it does I don't think you can Overstate how important the fun factor is At some level for groups that are gonna have to spend time together over time, you know extended periods of time So you want to be really deliberate about that whether that's having retreats whether it's having Dinners or barbecues figuring out other ways for people to spend time together to have fun Can I add something and this is for you don't say I'm loving it so so Donna talked about her Former colleague classmate or something who's got a name in the industry, but but lives away If I were gonna sit down and assess that I'd want to know whether that person can bring some fun into your group Because they have special something okay, if they're gonna attend by zoom You have to be aware that while zoom is a magical thing it does not build the kind of board in my mind that is as cohesive and as effective and as dedicated as if you're in person at least some of the time I Sit on the board of the Vermont Arts Council That and I sit on the board of Vermont law school or Vermont law school and graduate school now and The challenge in those groups is Pete our people are distributed and the conversations are Real, but they're limited and I think the opportunity for true deep conversation is greatly enhanced by in-person events and Nothing is better for board building building than having something to work together on where people are having a little fun So Donna with knowing that your product of your board is youth education. How do programs that you have with students Make it fun for board members are there things that you've been thinking about that you know Maybe this is your road test pitch to a board member. Tell us to that little pitch out loud I'm off the cuff here just thinking about this But like one of the discussions or one of the things that my students get accept My students get excited about are like when they can compete or take part in a festival or have their work seen in some way So thinking in terms of like, okay, could we create our own film festival where? The board is involved with helping to organize and plan that and again This is just coming to my mind as we talk Yeah, no, I love it. No, I'm a former journalist. I can handle it So yeah thinking about like well how like my meat and the meetings I have had aren't very fun and we don't do things that are super fun other than share ideas and have a conversation So yeah, I'm thinking about like ways in which we're how could I bring that element of fun in and what kinds of things could we arrange and plan To make it fun and I film festival is what comes to mind because my students when they do compete in these competitions outside of My program they get excited and they're they're you know, they they want to take part in it And so the wheels are turning and thinking that that could be our you know Maybe our thing that could be a little bit fun that might engage and I have you know Board members on my list that I think would be in would totally be all over that so that that's exciting Sharing and let me put you on the spot. Um I Come to this not just as someone that's been on a board and interested in it I had the pleasure and to be elected for two terms to the board of governors for the National Academy of Tellers and Arts and Sciences in New England and Luckily for me my board members are relatively easy to find because it's folks who are you have to be a member of the academy Which means you work at a station or a production company. You enter into the competitions You're involved in the sort of the ethics of journalistic integrity and and community give back But it's a challenge When you're calling the the Donnas and the Hollies of the world who are so busy in their job to then say Do you want to be on this board which oversees the recognition of your industry and a lot of people go? Oh Emmy board sounds exciting other ones go Or it's a Groucho Marx right do I want to be a member of the organization that'll have me so It's hard to find board members who can give the time Part of what I looked for was Folks that found the ethos of the organization, you know giving back to the community Journalistic integrity excellence in broadcasting if that's what they had as a paramount interest Personally they made a good board member of the organization and then as Holly sort of alluded to You know, what are the skill sets great? I can't have news people call sponsors for an Emmy event They can't do that. It's a conflict of interest. I need folks that are in advertising or marketing or promotions All right, if we were gonna create awards folks on the board that are going to see awards committees They have to be folks that Understand how to make products or their creators their writers their producers They know how to evaluate what is good writing? What is good editing? What is good audio? so it's a combination and then Well, Holly and Jody referred to as a fun factor and you were so right with zoom The television Academy used to have all of our board meetings in person We all shared lunch and there's something I'll say magical but something really personal sitting across from someone and sharing a meal and Discussing the issues and you create that personal bond You understand that someone likes peppers and someone's a vegetarian and someone likes this and you but you learn about that person And you create a connection with them and then as a president of the board you're able to go Okay, I understand this person a little better And I know what I can ask them or what I can't ask them what they're willing to do what they're not willing to do What they're good at what they're not good at and what zoom During COVID did is because we're a board in New England It's really hard to get everybody together one time a month So now we have one physical board meeting where all the new board members for the new year come and all the rest of them and I definitely notice the sort of Men I I check in I I respond to what I'm supposed to do and I check out. There's no There's less collegiality. I think is the phrase I'm looking for Everybody's not everybody's professional, but it's less personal This comes to me so we did the merger discussions during COVID and That required getting 34 people together on Zoom and having them actually make good decisions, right? Even when they were from two different camps and I have to credit Scott Finn for this because he's a production journalist at heart and I am not So you all have the means to make a zoom meeting engaging You should use your talents to So we had a team that put together these board meetings. They were happening every two weeks and We had a topic for the board meeting and we had speakers a video a Responsive Q&A like right on the spot. We had There would be zoom has features So do other providers, but zoom has features where you can build a grid based on everybody's anonymous reaction do you know do a PowerPoint type picture and That kind of interaction where everybody has to be accounted for Really helped keep the meetings Stimulating people engaged and they talked about the meetings after the meeting was over so I Just have to I'm giggling here because I'm thinking about the months I spent having class every day via zoom and having to find these ways to engage We had this rule where we couldn't force them to put their cameras on Which was torturous because I didn't know if they were awake or asleep or you know what they were doing But or even there right they certainly dialed in but like coming up with these ways Yeah, I was just laughing because I was like, oh, that was my life for like a year During COVID trying to come up with ways to engage students and in the part and taking part Right, right. I must have learned a lot So I'm gonna cut one more two more questions and then we want to hear from you all part of Building out The board is also Keeping folks involved and developing leadership I Wouldn't say it's me. I'd say maybe it's half me and half the people But I'm very proud to say the last four of the five presidents of the television Academy board were people that I recruited to the board when I was president How hard is that Jody to? Develop leadership I'm picking you specifically because you're other your other executive role your other director role, excuse me To build a pipeline right you have the board members and are they destined for the vice president the secretary the treasurer or the president How do you build longevity of board members so that you when you find someone good you can keep them You know, I would have responded to this very differently before the pandemic Because I really think a lot has has changed and and just within board recruitment and keeping folks on boards And I think there has to be I think we have to be just really realistic about it Because people have done a lot of prioritization in their lives so Whereas before and like Tim you said you're what on your fifth term You know this and term limits is a question that I know that you you had prompted us with but I did I think it Just realistically how long people are going to stay engaged or give is going to come directly back to how strong your mission is so And figuring out who is going to be in that pipeline for leadership It's really going to come down to today I think more than anything else is going to be people who are passionate supporters of the mission and so And I don't know that I would have responded that way Five years ago in terms of that question. I think things have really changed I think that in you're going to need to identify and it might not be the individuals who you would typically think of as the president vice president treasurer of an organization that Are extremely passionate that with some skill development with some leadership development They can get to that point and they are going to be the ones that are going to carry things forward And so identifying people who have your mission in their heart who you see that really burning with and then Being working with them to make sure they get those skills that they need to be able to do that job I I think is the path forward to this one given where we're at. So I don't know if I answered that the way you were looking The way you wanted to and that's uncomfortable with that Holly this sort of the same question for you You know, how did you keep good board members? Separate the wheat from the chaff right there are bad board members. I've had them Occasion I may have been one they couldn't really it wasn't for me. It was a matter of time I said yes, and I shouldn't have said yes. I couldn't commit fully How do you do that as well? How do you nurture leadership knowing this is a good person that I could see them being my Chair one day again, because you're Trusting your job. You're trusting your career with them. That's right It's so I think it's Important just to stop for a moment and say yeah, that's your job as executive director to identify skillsets and deficits and sort of have a plan you want to talk to your board chair about what your vision is because your Perception may not equal your board's perception You might be seeing people in different ways and if you are you need to figure that out and vet that Because you might have some conversations around board development with the group individually so Just acknowledge it's part of your job I think it's good to identify what bad board members are in In my world the bad board members I've met are people who are so pleased to have something else to put on their resume And that's really why they're there. So watch out for those guys. They are you know every now and then they pop up I Have had board members who have a sense that once they're a board member They have a unilateral right to do one of two things to speak for the organization or To direct staff The we've all made you know with with time and oh Donna Okay, we've we've met these folks and you have to be able to set those parameters that Jody was talking about Those are clear conversations You know you did indicate that You enjoyed the public media aspect of a community feedback loop That's required in national law for public media folks You know those organizations that are getting federal dollars from the corporation for public broadcasting. It's right in the rags, but The The I have seen people come in through community support groups Expressing their interest and then you see that they have a lot of leadership capacity And so it's incumbent on you to find a way to get them moved up the chain Into and my my experience is sometimes it's just great to get that avid Community leader working with somebody who's already on your board and you don't have to say anything they pull that person in So get one more question that we want to hear from you Donna part of the challenge for you is you have a National scope of alumni yet you're sort of a local school. How is the challenge of Geography or you know local business What are you looking for what are you thinking about in terms of where do I find these people so that they can engage because their proximity helps and balance that with Your skill sets yeah, and that has been the challenge, you know I've been highly encouraged by my director to bring people and do the meetings face-to-face and you know I can't ask someone from Hollywood to fly to New Hampshire to attend a board meeting So, you know, I have been focused on folks who I know I could probably get to come to me Physically and be in the space so again that went back to my mission my initial thought has always been like well Who do I know who do I work with who have I gone to school with who have I been who have I met through my various? You know experiences and that's sort of been where I've been rooted in Searching but as I'm listening to all these conversations. I'm realizing that I need to switch that up well That's great because I have those relationships What are the skills and what are the the the needs that I want from from my board? It's probably going to be outside of who I know and who I can connect with so that's I think where my head is sort of Heading like thinking about my mission and my my vision and really building that up and then Saying okay, well with that mission and vision in mind. What do I need to support that and where does that come from? I've already started thinking about and I think Jodi had mentioned you know dividing it up like the science part like I know I want someone from film. I want someone from journalism. I'd love someone from radio like these different categories that I Experiences that I want to give to my students And so thinking about it in that way. I don't necessarily know people involved in all of those things So once I have that structure in place I think it might be a little bit easier to figure out who where I can go and and who's going to to support those Or who can give me their experience and their you know skills In those different sort of subcategories, I guess can I ask a question? Yeah, sure Does Pinkerton Academy have a fundraising effort separate from your? initiative I Would assume so because it's a private school, but we are funded by the towns that serve us Yes, so I would go to that we are run by a board of trustees Yeah, I would go back to that group and start looking for mining the relationship aspects of the existing Organization, okay, that's some opportunity to share and the development of this new activity. Yeah, that's great Yeah sort of a follow-up for you is that is is that also that a challenge in building out a board that you are? Providing education to public to pop the towns the the school boards or the in those towns or also have a voice In what you're trying to do right and so one of my other You know thoughts as I've been trying to navigate this building of a board is who are my stakeholders who who cares about what I'm doing students teachers Students parents Administration and then the industry professionals that I want to give me that feedback So yeah, I've been rolling through like who are those stakeholders. So yeah, it is a challenge because I want to you know I could invite parents to be on my board, but they don't nothing about the industry But they have a voice because it's their kids that are enrolled in my program and then the kids who are learning They should have a voice in that because it's their their program and I want them to go out and say Yeah, take you know miss costles class because it's amazing experience and you get to do all these amazing things, but you know balancing that like Getting the industry input with the other stakeholders involved is a challenge and it is something I'm still working through but thinking about tapping the board of trustees is an interesting thought that I hadn't explored So I appreciate that advice Just the the actual process of board development and recruiting board members Is a way to build relationships with with those key people out there? So when you call the bank president You might call the bank president because they've been referred from your development office And you're calling to have a conversation with them about what you're doing Knowing that there are likelihoods. They're not going to be the one to be on your board But by them advising and you having that call and that conversation it's an opportunity for you to share your mission with them and For them to have some input and start to have some investment in your success And so when you then find that person, especially if it's based on the recommendations that you got You then have two people or perhaps two organizations that are invested So that whole if you approach board development and the process of recruiting folks as An opportunity into itself of a relationship building Then the investment side of it when it comes time to your organization and the value You're bringing to your community will be much higher Yeah, so we always have at least one student rep. It's a non voting member Sometimes we'll have up to three It depends I think two is probably the magic number for our board But what's really interesting is it serves Multiple reason one you're hearing from a voice and at least for me It's a voice that's coming from a completely different contextual framework so it's They bring ideas and a way of looking at the world that is so different than the rest of the group because of the generational difference That it really challenges a lot of just the way you're looking at things and it might be Physically how you're looking at it because your conversation with your normal board might be around it, you know a TV screen But the person that's in the student never looks at a TV screen that anything they're looking at is on their wrist Or it's in their hand and a little device right and there's very different ways of presenting in those So I mean there's that and then I back to the fun factor. It's really Rewarding for the other board members to have students on the board and to have them there and it's fun And for the students it's really a matter of something that they they take forward We've had students who have sat on our board that then go on I mean in their early 20s to form Organizations that you know all of a sudden they sense leadership in themselves that they didn't know was there They see something that's bigger than themselves and and you know Some day they might circle back and be the next board president from a long-term board development standpoint They might be there in ten years running the organization where they came in as a student rep so So question oh Right away I mean literally literally And they're not interested in actually developing mission resources or people that they have theoretically Providing oversight we need to get to a world where we have boards of directors who actually act as stewards of mission suggests some of the I Just I'm sorry, I've already blipped on your first name Mike. Hi Mike. I am hearing you and I know so many media Organizations have this kind of person oversight in in the public media world. It's the stations that are affiliated with universities Yeah, oh woe be to them and at the time that I came into public television the Federal Communications Commission was having a market of Frequencies frequency licenses and so the The algebra on that for a university outlet was Those frequencies are worth what? Great, let's sell them and then we can start a new medical school Yeah, it had nothing to do with support of the The mission or the existing organization so I think the thing that in my mind if you have that kind of required Appointment in your organization. I think the thing to do Based on not based on direct experience, but based on what I've seen is to out them And what I mean by that is okay, Frank Tell us about what your objectives are and let's get our finance committee or our other board meant get you on a board committee with Trustees or directors that are going to talk with you about the things that drive you It's better to have Knowledge and awareness of the various Constituents that that person is trying to satisfy than to be surprised one day When somebody comes along and says, okay, you're done. I did the math Doesn't want to be there So I don't have direct experience in the media world But we did have an organization that I was participating in that was essentially an oversight entity for a federal funder and The group itself made a decision That we needed to go a different direction and it took maybe three years to address by-laws mission To redesign the board that organization is very different than it was before the relationship with the funder has also changed which has created challenges and And Everything has changed. I would say based on what I see from the outside in the world And what you guys are all going through right now and the is there's gonna have to be some really brave conversations about What it is you're trying to do long term And some of the traditional institutional funders and those relationships might change based on what you come up with there And there's also going to be just I mean we're in a time where things are moving so quickly Some of these things are gonna work and some aren't And so I'm a big believer in trying to figure out ways to test and pilot things on a smaller scale And that might be a strategy to use As you as you work on some of this which is it might be forming a subsidiary a smaller company at a parallel organization at a different scale where you can build stuff up try things that the Existing organization can't do with a longer term goal of that informing along the larger organization. I Like Jodi's reference to innovation If you I know a guy who's who when I lived in Pittsburgh who said always seek to be on the seam of innovation right and How does that affect an oversight committee? Those folks really have a hard time with innovation because there's programs and metrics are not set up for a new world and Actually, that was one of my big challenges in getting the boards to merge is that I started going out into the media landscape and Looking at convergence and getting people to come into my board From all sorts of weird places and say do you realize that you know like one of my favorite things was there was a stealth organization at Public broadcasting the mothership who Licensed and pack packaged and licensed PBS video products for sale to other Distributors Yeah Basically eroding the donor base, right? Yeah Why watch a Downton Abbey on PBS you can have it on DVD And you can get it through your Apple TV you can get it here you can get it there and you need to keep like the imagination of board members aware and alive to what's really going on and That's challenging when you have that oversight piece because you need to You don't want to create a firestorm of alarm But you also want to keep that person kind of open to change and figuring out, okay We are where's where's the room we have but Mike you had another question Respectfully can I see if there's other questions you we have one in a queue right I will save five minutes for you because you are our national Yeah, it's a challenge So this is a really dumb question, but maybe other people feel it I have great people on my board But how do I get them to do stuff? We're really small organization and as a director. I do everything I teach I manage our finances make sure people get paid to fund raising do outreach How do I get the rest to do stuff at meetings or is that awkward silence? Then I end up doing it or not I'm gonna start with that because I learned two good phrases in being bored there's the doers or worker bees and then there's the You shoulda's you should have done this and you should have done that and they say it and it's like well That's nice that you said that but you're not putting any skin in the game It's wonderful to say we should have done this with a project, but you didn't get involved So it is a challenge and and really what it is is for me is when you find worker bees You say how can I help you because you're helping me? How can I find other people to be on your committee? How can I find other? You know folks that can compliment your skills, but I will let the I Would come back to the fun factor piece so Is there a way to align with your board members things that are meaningful in their lives in what they're already doing so And I think this is becoming more and more of an issue around people's volunteer time We're seeing collectively with our civic organizations in our communities. They volunteerism is is Dropping in terms of the overall numbers, but what you're also seeing is that people are becoming really hyper focused on how they're volunteering And which is all about alignment, right? So the reason I bring that up is you have to really identify within your board members What their individual passions are what they want to spend time with their kids with what they want to be doing and you target your Ask in terms of their time, which is extremely valuable so that it matches what's going on in their lives That's important to them So an example that with catamount arts if I have somebody that I know has kids that are in a string program Then when I'm got string events, who am I on the phone with asking to be there and helping us work on that event? And and it works it works really well, and it might be that they're a teacher and they're teaching, you know math and Your business administration up at the college, and they have a great student So when we need help it might not be the professor, but we might be going to them to ask about an intern who could do the help us within the board So again aligning with what they have and have available in their life and figuring out how to bring that into our organization Yeah, I know I'm just sitting here thinking about how zoom has kind of done us in in some ways, you know because I Both have belonged to and And run organizations where people are very willing to attend the meeting in whatever format But if you're trying to get them to an event They're like oh man not another thing and they can't attend virtually So I do think that You know everybody's got a style I Have a little bit of a Rambo aspect to my So so I am able to say okay These are the 12 things that I do and here's here's my capacity If you want to this thing if you board members want this thing to be effective You you are going to need to find among you The people to do this and it should take this long and it should be fun in this way But okay, and so who's gonna run that because we just can't do that thing unless some board members are gonna do that One and then I'm gonna save the last question for Mike because we got about ten minutes left But thanks so much. This has been really Interesting. My name is Bobby Lucia. I'm the development director at CCTV in Burlington And something that we're so we are trying to recruit on to our board right now But we're also and we're also trying to expand our fundraising We have our 40th anniversary coming up next year So we're thinking about about that and that big campaign and I do see that it's a big It's sort of a big systemic problem in the way that we typically build our boards of directors that we look for You know communities with resources folks that either have wealthy friends or have Capacity and then that does bias the work and the and the way that that work is directed And so we do want to be Thinking about bringing in folks who have a deep passion for what we do and for our programmatic work And then you know so what is the role then of a board like that when it comes to fundraising building up a campaign I guess I'm you know Do you have any success stories or tips do's and don'ts for you know? How to engage a board in fundraising while at the same time not making your board all about You know finding the resources that you need to do the work and then winding up with biases In that in that board because of that No, no, no, well we that would be now. It's funny because we don't but we I think as we're thinking about recruiting We're I think we want to be thinking more about the folks that are you know Invested in the work and patent and do and and have knowledge of the work on the ground and But the biases that I'm talking about coming up are just the you know The same people serving on on boards that often have the same perspectives and and lack The perspectives that we need in positions of leadership in order to really change You know, systemically change the nature of our work More you want to dress that Holly you think you're on that I'll take a shot so this is really hard stuff because it's always the same people showing up and And and in part because they're visible so If you want to change the nature of your organization You may need to find a way to make The kind of change you want to happen interesting and exciting to existing board members and You might have to deploy the buddy system one of the things that always occurs to me with media outlets like CCTV is Why isn't there a stronger? Collaborative experience between public media and CCTV You know one of my thoughts is that we there can't be too much local content. They just can't be okay, so Why is that not a driver for an experiment? And when you have an experiment then you have excitement and then when you have excitement you get people to commit to supporting something new I can say that the Vermont PBS did a collaborative experiment with the Leahy Science Center and That was fun for the board members you know, we got together and had a party and People talked about ideas and mixed it up and that was really fun And then people got engaged and what were the best ideas and then the funding discussions started happening, right? And it it can be a great motivator when you Find something new and exciting, but you are so right that you have to be careful that you're not just regenerating the same Same old group Yeah, I have a couple of thoughts. I'll share one is that I think there is a transition time with boards and if you're if you're going towards a more innovative board and a board that is maybe more focused on the on change and mission that It's going to be a really hard board to coexist with those folks who are traditional and in those roles And you just have to acknowledge that and there's going to be friction And whether it's a buddy system or some other level of support you have to know that going in Because it's two different cultures is essentially what you're looking at the cultures of innovation and change You know, that's different than the traditional culture and the board I the other thought and I'll just share an example. We work together on a project when you were at PBS and Vermont PBS and and we had a Grammy-winning musician coming to town and we worked together and Vermont PBS helped us by publicizing and making the show you know Doing promotional work and putting the excerpts of the show out there and then we used that as a vehicle that we offered to Vermont PBS to then use with donors who really and board members who were really excited about this musician and their band and so they get to come and we had a meet and greet and and And it was a really creative way of two organizations really helping each other out in ways that they needed at the time And so the thought of how do you approach this? there may be different ways in as you think about relationships and Where people find value to want to support your organization? So that traditional donor as your board member, I would really challenge you in today's complex world is to Challenging that traditional assumption that the person that writes the check should be sitting at the board of directors table And it doesn't mean that that never happens But you need to be really deliberately engaged with that and thinking about other ways to to to approach it Right I'll I'll start with my experience which is Bringing together people for a meal you build a personal relationship which Free meal I'm gonna stop there and give it to the professionals Curious, all right, so I Changed the context completely So it's not about the zoom call and we're being in person You're gonna start by saying, okay We're gonna do this awesome thing and this is where we're gonna do it and we're gonna get everybody together to do this And it's not necessarily related to what we do in our everyday zoom call so you take it out of the The context of this or that and it's something completely different and it's something where you're trying to the whole goal of it Is just to come together around relationships for you You're not necessarily expressing that to them But take it out of that because you're never gonna get everybody signing on if they're in those two different camps And you're kind of evenly split so just remove that and you know There's a There is a speaker coming into the the region that is nationally known That is directly relevant to everything you're doing And everybody on this board needs to come to this and we're gonna have a party on this night And it's not related to a meeting or anything. It's completely separate Are you in favor of the in-person meeting So so I think there's yeah, I think there's a couple of aspects to this and you've just named them So We have Governance, you know, we haven't talked about board governance at all here But board governance is really important. Like how many meetings can your director miss before they're they're out Now very few Of those rules get enforced that they should be there They have value when they're there. I think board governance rules should be changed now that we have zoom world Um, because it just by logging in does not mean you were there Um, that's one thought the the second thing is this idea of of special benes for Engaged board members That's so powerful when people um on your board see that certain people not only had more fun together But actually maybe got to do some things or make some decisions Because they were part of something big that happened That's how it's motivating people truly and then thirdly I would offer to you Mike I think you need to have a list of what is important and why to you And maybe there's somebody else on the on the board that you share that list with Because you kind of have to be clear of what are you trying to achieve here? It's so easy to fall into the this just isn't the meeting. I wanted it to be you know and being kind of Uh On the you know, you don't want to grouse you want to see what your trajectory would be Um, I'll I'll give jody some credit One of the most fascinating things that catamount arts board does is the retreat Which is it's not just come in and strategic planning We started out with fun exercises and ice breakers and shared food and it just changes It's what you're both talking about changes the complexity of the The setting and takes it less about the nuts and bolts and the mission and makes it a little more personal And I think people get more invested um Hi customer Donna Scala, did I get it right? Cascola, I gotta get that vowel right jody freed. Thank you so much. Um, we really appreciate your time your friendship sharing this with folks that I Believe in their mission. So you being able to give them some advice has been really important to me So thank you Thank you all