 where we discuss reading, writing, and everything in between and beyond. I'm your host, Dr. Rita Forsythe, coming to you from Maui on the Think Tech live streaming network series broadcasting from our studio at the core of Downtown Honolulu. The title of today's episode is From History to Fiction. Joining me today is Jill Ingledau, author of nonfiction books and other publications about Hawaii. She's launching a new career and a new endeavor, writing fiction based on Maui. Welcome, Jill. Hi, hi Rita, it's nice to be here. So happy to have you. Yeah. Jill, you were born in England and grew up in Texas and Guam. And then you moved with your family to Hawaii in 1959. Your dad was a newspaper man who covered events like the volcano eruptions in a major tsunami on the big island. Could you tell us how your move to Hawaii transformed your life? Oh, it transformed it amazingly. I had been living, we had lived in a suburb in El Paso, Texas, which is in the desert. And it was a very flat new suburb, not that interesting a place. We used to take hikes in the desert. That was our big adventure. And to move to a place like Hilo, which is just, you know, green jungle. I always remember going in the ocean in Keokaha where there's lots of lava rocks and reefs and opening my eyes into the water and being absolutely amazed. Anyway, I also made friends with a lot of Hawaiian kids in Keokaha and was able to spend a lot of time with them and fell in love with Hawaiian music, bought myself a little Hawaiian dictionary and tried to translate songs from the King's song books. And just, I just really made a difference in my life. I had a really wonderful time because I'd been really kind of a bookworm living in a boring desert. And then I went to this wonderful place. And then of course we had things like record breaking, eruption, Kilauea Ikki and the tsunami, which was tragic, but incredibly exciting. The whole thing was just amazing. It was great. So I imagine those things inspired you to begin to write and tell me about what inspired you specifically to begin writing about Maui. Well, I had always liked to write and I'm actually a third generation newspaper person. My grandfather had newspapers in little towns in East Texas and then my dad was a newspaper man. So it kind of came with the genes maybe, I don't know, or just the way I was raised. And so I always enjoyed writing. And when I got to Maui in 1968, I was living out in the country. I was raising chickens and bulls and I was trying to make money making like crochet bathing suits and homemade bread, stuff like that. I know how to make things other people don't know how to make. I know how to make a story because I just had learned it as a child. My father always sort of coached me, you know? So, and there were so many stories to be told on Maui. It was just amazing. I could just as my news person's eye constantly looked around seeing stories everywhere. And I first wrote something and approached a little weekly on Maui called the Maui Sun. And lo and behold, they bought this story that I wrote. And then they called me and said, do you want to write another one? And so pretty soon I was working for them part time. Then eventually in 1980, I went to work for the Maui News, which of course I was the newspaper record on Maui and was in its golden days then before the internet when newspapers were still a really big deal. And it was there that, well, of course I covered all kinds of things as a reporter. I went all over the island. I got to know all kinds of people. And then I met Ines Ashton and started writing history. Have you ever heard of her? No. Tell me more about her. Yeah, she was born in 1900 on the mainland. Her father was a rancher and he won the world championship roping contest and this is right before Equipurty and the other Hawaii cowboys went and they beat his record. But he came to Hawaii as this big celebrity cowboy and got a job at Ula-Palacua Ranch. And she grew up there and in various other places on Maui. And by the time I met her, she was 80 because she was a century and it was about 1980. And she asked me to help her write her memoirs. You can imagine. That was amazing what I learned. Yes. Just from hearing her stories and trying to help her with her memoir which never will be published unfortunately. Yeah. I learned to just have a sense of Maui history that I don't think you can get any other way than by listening to somebody tell their stories. Best way, right? Yeah. Well, now the first book of yours that I read was The Island Decides. Yeah. And I believe in fact that Maui does decide whether a person is right for islands living. In my novel Under the Monkey Pottery, I wrote about that how the island decides. And I think that was the first conversation you and I even had that connected my work to your work. Yeah. Yeah, it's something that people used to say a lot when I first came to the island. And I don't know if it's as true now as it used to be then because there are so many people coming and money means so much now. I mean, if you don't have a lot of money, you can't just like rent an old house for 75 bucks a month anymore. And people who have money sort of want to have things their way. And the way things work best on Maui is if you don't try to change the island, you let the island change you. Yeah. So when people struggle with that and they can't get what they're used to living on the mainland or whatever, a lot of times even money doesn't keep them there. Oh. I have a lot of traffic stories that really drill that home lately. Yeah, goodness. So here's a question from our viewer. Where did you find information about Hawaii when you researched your books? Well, this goes back, well, first of all, I had that. Like I said, I had a sense of the history from Inez and also I had a sense of the history from the people I met because when I got there, it was sort of a turning over time, a change time where Maui was just starting to switch to tourism-based. Kahlua had just been populated. So I've heard a lot of stories. But then when I left the Maui News, I left the Maui News in 1998 because I wanted to go write things. I wanted to write long things, not little short news stories. My first freelance job was with the Maui News. They hired me to write a history of Maui in the 21st or the 20th century and because the Maui News was founded in the year 1900 and we were coming right up on the year 2000 and it was gonna be a hundred years old. So through the pages of the Maui News, you could see the history of Maui in the 20th century. So I spent hours and hours and hours at probably my main source of information, which is the Maui News. Unfortunately, it's just not accessible anymore for reasons having to do with dead microfilm machines, hours and hours and hours reading through stories of Maui News. And fortunately, I printed a lot of them because I used them to create this thing that ran in the Maui News for almost a full year every couple of weeks. And I kept them because... I'm glad because it would have been lost forever. So I'm glad you did all this. Yeah, and I'm hoping that eventually the company that owns the paper will get the entire paper digitized. It is digitized. You can get it on newspapers.com up to 1923, I think. And then after that, it's kind of spotty. I just found some stuff from the war years online. Oh my gosh, here's the pages of those newspapers. It was amazing, but newspapers are a great source of information if you wanna know. Yeah, there's books, interviews, there's websites, so. Well, here's another question. Your award-winning book, Haleakala, A History of the Maui Mountain contains vintage photos and contemporary pictures. So some viewers want to know how you got all of those. Is that again a newspaper source or what's your secret on their photos? Well, photos, unfortunately, back in the day, the Maui News did not value it's not the high news, but certain people who were in charge didn't value things like having a clipping file, what they call a morgue in the newspaper business, or keeping old photos. And so it's, again, very, very iffy where you can get photos, but I have learned, we talked about, when we were speaking earlier, we talked about exploring historic upcountry. And here's, this is the book that it has become. This one, can you see that? And it started out exploring historic Wailuku, Lahaina, and upcountry, and I did the upcountry one. That's when I began to learn where do you find old pictures? So the museums, the Bailey House, Holi Holi, A&B Museum, Lahaina Restoration Foundation. Those all have photo collections. And then, of course, on the upcountry one, I got a lot of private photos also. Well, I bet, and that kind of leads to my next question because I bet the Sugar Cane Museum, which we're gonna talk about next, has some interesting photos. And your book, Sugar Cane Days, Remembering Maui's Hawaiian Commercial and Sugar Company, will be of interest to anybody who lived in Hawaii over in the past, I don't know, maybe 100 years or more. Can you talk a little bit about this book? Does anybody, there before that, they wouldn't be here, no, I appreciate it. Hopefully not. Well, actually, that one, I mean, there was a woman who lived on Maui until a few years ago named Roz Lightfoot. And she first ran the Bailey House Museum, and then she moved over to the A&B Sugar Museum. And I was, I needed some pictures, a picture, I need a specific picture. And I couldn't find this image that I knew had to be out there somewhere. And I called her and said, do you have it? And she said, yeah, we do, why don't you come on down? So I went to the museum and she found me the picture and then she started showing me on her computer a bunch of other pictures that had been scanned. And they are black and white photos that were taken for mostly, probably other reasons too, but mostly for a little in-house newspaper that the museum or the plantation ran between 1948, 1968. They are gorgeous. That was like before sugar, I mean, before a color film and the photographers were masters of the art. And here were hundreds of fabulous photos. Well, you remember when the sugar came, when HCNS closed? Right. This was six months before it closed. Oh, wow. And I saw these pictures and I went, oh my God. She says, yeah, I've been thinking you should do some books with these. And I looked at them and knowing the economics of books, I knew that no, I couldn't do more than one. But I thought I've got to do one about the great, this really were the golden days of plantation life, the golden age. Yes, yes. Yeah. Well, and two of your books, Maui 101 and Island Life 101, they're just full of suggestions for people that are moving here, people that are just visiting. Can you share your reasons? And I'm sure they're good for writing these books. Yes, and we didn't get graphics for everything. So here's Island Life 101. Well, right below your chin. There you go. So we're talking about how the island decides and how so many people are coming now and it's kind of, you know, the island has lost its localness in so many ways and overwhelmed by multitudes of newcomers. And I was working, after I left the Maui News, I worked at Hawaii Community Foundation. We talked a lot about social capital, which is the bonds within a community, everything from public meetings to knowing your neighbors and going on a picnic together to playing bridge on a Saturday night, all kinds of informal connections that are what make a healthy community. And the fact that having so many people come in that didn't know the history, didn't know the culture, didn't know the customs, was putting a strain on it. So I got the idea to write this, first I wrote Maui 101 and then I sold that out and then I thought, well, there's so many more people in the state, I'll write it for the whole state. So I expanded it and made that Island Life 101. You know, it would be great if they took tidbits from your book and shared them with people on planes coming here because it would be lovely if people understood a little bit more before they landed. So my husband and I were in Lahaina today and we were having lunch at the paella fish market and we thought about you. We talked about you and your work and I was thinking that many people that visit Lahaina really don't know a lot about its rich history. So your book, The Story of Lahaina made me see the town in a whole new light. Oh, good. Well, you know, I got to tell you that that, Inaz Ashton, who I mentioned previously, she wrote the original The Story of Lahaina booklet. She helped with the renovation of the Baldwin home right there on Fred's name. And then she wrote this book but it was really, really outdated and so I wrote a new one and to honor her, I kept the name. But, you know, we were talking about the La Laie Fishpond where you live, essentially. I live right on the banks of that. I'm trying to figure out how I can make this work. Right against your face. Yeah. There it is. It works and I really wanted you to see this. I don't know if it's, well, you have seen it because you've seen the book, right? This is, this picture that is on the cover of this book is a watercolor by, what is his name, Gilman. Anyway, he visited Maui in like 1852 and he did this wonderful picture and it shows that wetland that was Moko'ula or Mokohinia around the island of Moko'ula, which... And the myth that that has a mo'o, a Hawaiian mermaid slash lizard creature, that's the same mo'o that lives in our pond here when I wrote my novel under the monkey pond tree. And I think that same mo'o lives in Hana too, right? I'm not sure, but there's, it's a pretty strong story and there's even stories in Lahaina. I don't know about, you know, in Kei, but in Lahaina there are even stories about people seeing something in the water in historic times where it was, you know, people could write and record it. I got chicken skin, just thinking about it. Yeah, in your book there's all these strange things that keep happening and you get the feeling there's somebody here that's like, whoa, it's... Watching you. So I was also thinking about, because I was in upcountry a couple of days ago and it's a bit of a drive there for me and I bet you put a lot of miles on your car when you were researching your book exploring historic upcountry. I did indeed and because we, I would go upcountry, well, for example, we're talking about where to get, where did I find pictures and stuff? For example, churches upcountry often have pictures and I would go there and visit a church and look at their pictures and then beg them, please, could I borrow these pictures? I'll bring them back, I promise. And for a family or who else should I get them from? Ranches, just all kinds of places upcountry. I mean, I would drive up to Ula Paola Kua, get a half a dozen pictures, take them down to Wailuku and have them professionally scanned and then drive them back. Driving going on in those days. Oh my gosh. So I'm fascinated by your book. The Spirit Lives On and that's the history of the old Maui High School. Well, in my research, they say the beautiful ruins are haunted. What do you say? I say if they're haunted, they're haunted with good times because they had to climb it. I got that one too, let's see if people can see this. There's a beautiful structure up there. Yeah, it is. And I just saw a picture somebody posted on Facebook that showed what it looked like before they cleaned it up because it was so overgrown and there'd been a fire and everything. But the structure, the basic bones of that building are still there and someday they'll find a way to do something with it. But it was designed by C.W. Dickey who was a very famous Hawaii architect. And it was just this beautiful oasis for plantation kids to come to and learn and study, play and they did the most amazing things. They took classes and things like French and Latin. I've heard a story, I don't know where I heard the story but when the Nisei soldiers of World War II went to Italy they were able to get around fairly well because they had learned Latin at Maui High. No kidding. They could kind of work their way through Italian just basic stuff because it was quite a story. That's destiny. Yeah. So what accolades have you received for your writing? Some of your awards? You know, I don't, there's somewhere I have a list of them. When I was at the Maui News I covered health and human services, all the nonprofits and the health care associations and stuff. I got a lot of awards then partly because those are people that like to say thank you a lot. Social work people. I did receive an IPI for, which is the Independent Publishers Award for the Haleakala book. And then the Sugar Cane Days won an award from the Historic Hawaii Foundation. Well, congratulations on that. And I know you collaborated with other authors in writing some of your books. Yes, a lot. Going all the way back to the 1980s. I don't know if you've heard of this book, Magic Maui, The Best of the Island. Oh, no. No, this was, my friend, MJ Hardin, had been a travel writer. And I first met her when she came to Maui because she had a new boyfriend on Maui. And she said that in all her traveling, there was always a certain kind of travel guide that she looked for when she went to a new place. And there was no such book about Maui. And since I had local knowledge and she knew what to write in a travel book, we got together and really I helped her. It was her book and I helped her with this book. And this was early in self-publishing days, MJ went to San Francisco and literally ran around town learning how to publish books. And we published it and it was very successful, but by the time we got done, other guidebooks had turned up. So it didn't, we couldn't retire on our earnings, unfortunately. Now, the Spirit List on the one about Maui High, that was a collaboration because Barbara Long, who was the president of that organization, the friends of all Maui High, which commissioned this book, she helped a lot. She did a lot of writing and research. She had a lot of ideas. Oh, here's another one. This is one I collaborated on. Oh, beautiful. I know, I saw that one. The Book of Lavender, it's an unfortunately, is that a print? It's about the Ali'i Kula Lavender Farm. Oh, that's such a beautiful place. Yeah, it was written with Ali'i, the founder and with Lonnie Weigert, who was the marketing director at the time. So we put that one together. And then I've helped people with memoirs and stuff along the way. So. Excellent. Well, my final question, a little off the topic of your books is, what are you reading? What's on your best side table? Well, you know, as I said, I don't read nonfiction very much, but because I'm up to my ears in research for Rose's war, which is about World War II on Maui, and believe me, there's a lot to say about that. And Rose and her farm manager and her farm manager's wife have to deal with a lot of stuff, including the fact that he gets interned. And so in order to understand what that would have been like, he's a Nisei, Japanese American. I've read a lot of books and a couple that I would highly recommend. Anybody's all interested in learning what it was like to be a Japanese American during World War II. One is called Facing the Mountain, and it's by Daniel James Brown. It's amazing and it's got people from Maui in it. So that makes it even more interesting to me. And it tells about internment and about the Nisei soldiers going off to war and what they had to go through. Oh my gosh. And then the other one is called Remembering Our Grandfather's Exile, and it's by a woman named Gail Y. Okawa. And this is about her tracing the journey of her grandfather, who was a Christian minister, Japanese of course, who was interned and sent to the mainland. And she follows in great detail his journey and that of other of the men who were sent off to the mainland, the community leaders who were arrested at the time. Both of those books are just amazing pieces of work. They're heartbreaking, they're inspiring, and I just really recommend both of them. I think I'll order them on Amazon. And by the way, where can we find your books? They're on Amazon, or you can look on my website, which is just JillIngleBow.com. And the novels will be available in a lot of other places, but this is a slow process of getting the proofreading done and getting them distributed and everything. But at this moment, they're both available as eBooks on Amazon, and soon other forms will be available. Excellent. Well, that's all the time we have today. I'm gonna repeat my goodbye speech. I want to thank Jill for being my special guest, our broadcast engineer, our floor manager, and Jay Fidel, our executive producer. A special mahalo to our sponsors, and thank you for joining us. Books, books, books will be back in two weeks with my friend and host, Elaine Galant. I'll see you next month. Until then, read, write, and create your world. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn, and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.