 That's Kevin Thull by the way. I also want to thank him. He's the one who's doing all the recordings in all the sessions so they will be available on our website after as well as our YouTube channel. So big thank you to Kevin for recording my nice video now. So as Deputy Minister of Consumer Services, Hilary focuses on end-to-end customer experience of government, bringing together the collective efforts of Service Ontario, Consumer Protection Ontario, and Ontario Digital Services and more to deliver a simpler, faster, better government services for the people and businesses of Ontario. Previously Hilary was the Deputy Executive Director of 18F, a Digital Services Agency in the US federal government and was a presidential innovation fellow in 2013. She's worked with governments across jurisdictions for more than 20 years, having previously served as a director at NIC Inc., an organization that helps governments embrace internet-based technologies and approaches necessary for modernization. She was appointed Deputy Minister of Consumer Services in June of 2018. She joined the Digital of Early Ontario government in April of 2017 as Deputy Minister responsible for Digital Government and she is also Ontario's Chief Digital Officer leading the province's digital transformation efforts. That is a mouthful. I want to welcome Hilary Hartley to the stage. So your presentation is here. Cool. Click here if you want. Awesome. Awesome. Thanks so much. That was a lot of digital. Just to get us started for the day. Hi folks. As Pat said, I'm Hilary and this is the only mic so just wave and holler if I stray too far and you can't hear me. But here today really and first of all thank you for showing up at 9 a.m. to hear me talk to you about government. But there's several people on my team here and at some point I'll get them to stand up maybe at the end so you remember their faces and can chat with them because the whole point of kind of walking through this is just to tell you a little bit about what we're doing and how we're doing and and how we're doing it and how we think and how we work and I will just start off by saying that you know there there's an ulterior motive which is to tell you that government is is fun it's hard it's challenging but it's impactful and it's it's really fun it's a great team so I'll just leave it there I can percolate in your mind as you're as you're hearing all of this and and hopefully getting to meet a few of the folks on my team the next couple of days but as as Pat said I am the chief digital officer so that's the that's the title that I think is probably the most fun and it's the one I came to Ontario to do to lead the Ontario Digital Service we're a team of about 75 developers designers user researchers content designers product managers all kinds of specialists helping us get this stuff done for ministries and with ministries and that's probably the most important part is that we really do try to work with them hand-in-hand to help them deliver on on their missions and you know fine folks with me here today can tell you a lot more about that but but this word gets bandied about a lot and it's not a word that I like but I mean I we're stuck with it but but you know use what you've got and so when I talk about transformation and when I talk about digital to to my peers and to other teams and to folks across the government it really is you know the fact that that we know we need and want to change you know transformation is is big change right it's it's the home run it's when we've you know when we've figured everything out but that big change really happens a little bit at a time and to transform government we essentially there's a lot of things in our way if you will there's people who you know have been doing the same thing for decades because it's the way they've always done it and sometimes they just need someone who hasn't been doing it that way to come in sit next to them and say why did you do it that way not with judgment but just literally asking why are we doing it this way so that we can start to understand some of those practices that are perhaps outmoded outdated you start to do that you start to shift how people approach their work how they want to approach their work how they're open to thinking about diving in in new ways and you know at the end of the day it really is you know we ship code every day we were designing we're delivering products on behalf of government ministries but this is a culture change mandate at the end of the day and I think governments kind of across the globe are recognizing that that really is kind of the big nut that we've got a crack you know we've got to kind of change it practices and some of our foundational tech and we're whittling away at that but and Drupal's a big part of that until you're a little about but but it's it's it's a it's a cultural mandate it's a culture change mandate because we've got to change those entrenched practices we've got to shift the way people approach how they think about delivering their program and delivering their services because at the end of the day what we're really trying to do is transform people's lives you know we're impact junkies you know most public servants that I know would tell you that they're there because because the work is hard but because we get to work with awesome people dedicated to delivering things for it for you and for your families and you know for your neighbors and so this transformation like I said it happens a little at a time it happens when one person stands up and says I think we could probably do that whatever that is differently because that prompts another person to step up and then another person another person and suddenly this stuff is is trickling out and practices start to change behavior starts to change culture starts to change so that we really can change people's lives so who before today I guess probably if you knew Nick you'd probably heard about us but maybe who before today or before reading that I was the keynote for today had heard of the Ontario Digital Service just out of curiosity okay well actually it's not that's pretty good number actually but this is us back in back in June he told us to do a funny post of course we all pull out our phones and and again digital is in the name but what does that mean well for us yes like I said we're worshiping code but digital really you know kind of the through line of what we're trying to do is helping the government apply the culture the practices the processes the technologies of the internet era of this time that we're in to respond to people's raised expectations you know we all have raised expectations of service delivery of the things that we can get done on this in our pocket and that's what digital is so it is it's a mindset shift and we help people put foundational pieces in place but our role at the ODS is to really kind of serve as that center of gravity for the public service trusted advisors you know a team that folks can come to and say are we thinking about this right are we are we headed in the right direction how can you help and you know a place that you know we can experiment with new approaches and we can kind of be pushing the boundaries and pushing our team forward which eventually will pull other teams along with us you know so going to the cloud using open source first things like that that maybe the government just said well you all kind of go do that and experiment with that and that's great but the benefit of that is that there is a team doing it and there are other keen people across the public service wanting to push their teams in that direction and so they can point to the ODS and say hey the ODS is doing this and this guy's not falling you know maybe we could follow their lead everything from cloud to service design to user research just the simple practice of user research which if you're you know in industry and building products you take it for granted and sometimes there's you know this sort of false impression that you can't do that in government but you can and so the ODS is here to sort of create playbooks and to put guides together to help other public service servants understand kind of what we do and how we do it we're really just trying to unleash you know this thinking these methodologies this kind of lean startup attitude in government with other teams so that we can all start kind of getting things done in a new way because this is our mission that you know we want to simply make government simpler faster and better you know digital government is really just good government it's government that is focused on you on us on the people trying to get some information from your government on the people trying to you know to to perform a transaction with the government so again it's not as much about technology as it is really about empathy I've joked that instead of chief digital officer my title should be chief empathy officer because really that's what we're trying to do we're trying to teach folks how to have empathy in this context of product development program delivery service delivery building kind of you know the right things in the right way government can build things that are you know simple beautiful and easy to use governments all over the globe are doing it and really proud that this team is is doing that as well this is something we put out earlier this year it's called our digital action plan but you know we wanted digital action plan was a thing that was asked for and that was the deliverable but we didn't want to really put that in the title and it doesn't really say that anywhere in the intro text or anything because honestly this is just it's a vision it's a vision to rally around it's a vision to rally our team around it's a vision to rally the other CIOs around you know around this notion that we have to start with users and we have to deliver together we have to be building multidisciplinary teams we have to be joining policy and delivery at the hip so we're pushing forward together so that there can be experts at the table from both perspectives saying you know what the thing that you're thinking about doing is not going to work from both angles from the policy angle from the technology angle we start to prototype something we start to build something we learn even more about that we can go back and change the policy make different decisions we can learn what we need to shift on the technology side so this is a this is a vision it's it's you know if any of you are interested the URL is up there and we love feedback on it it's kind of a we put it out as a bit of an alpha really to get feedback but you know that the pillars there is as you can read are essentially being focused on people thinking about our role in fostering a digital economy for the province being always always focused on inclusion equity and access you know designing for inclusion certainly but also what is our role in helping the province push forward on things like broadband initiatives accessibility and and and a lot more there are a lot of inclusion activities happening across the platform across the government this notion of government as a platform so again thinking about thinking about containers and commoditizing things so that we're building you know features on top of platforms instead of you know things like having to change application logic to change a drop-down for instance you know so separating things you know kind of modern ways that hopefully I think everyone in this room is thinking about building things and then finally really talking about the public service of the future and what you know how we think how I believe public servants need to be thinking of their jobs slightly differently and that we are all service designers we are all in the business of making things better for our users whether or not we see that as our direct job or not and so kind of talking and teasing that out a little bit you know we all know what great experiences feel like you know Steve Jobs has talked a lot about that in the keynotes over the years Jared Spool talks about delight you know and and how you know products should delight your users you know even the little example of like you know you scroll I don't know if it actually still happens but a great example when that when the iPhone first did it when you scroll to the bottom and it just bounces a little and you get that little like you know that little rush of oh that was cool you know it's all those little things what was that was that a code for Canada Canada event last night and they were doing a demo of a product that they that code for Canada and the Canadian digital service team in Ottawa and also by the way here to recruit for any of those teams and events you know so we'll talk a little bit about the kind of civic tech ecosystem but so they were showing off an app that they built for for the Veterans Affairs C what's the C stand for BAC anyway for Veterans Affairs to it's a benefits finder so he was walking through lots of really cool features it's an alpha now but essentially he had saved a couple of features and he had gone on a separate screen to find the the office location closest to him and then gone back to this screen and that office location wasn't anywhere there but he hit you know it said print you know you can print this page and walk into a service location or something and kind of give some information and he he had print this page and the page remembered what he had just gone and saved and put the office location there and everything else it is just those little things I don't know if anybody I mean I'm sure a few people in the audience you know sort of recognized what happened but I was like I turned to you know Katie who's sitting next to me I was like the printed page just printed the map from the other thing did you see that that's so cool so it's all of those little things that when government does things right you notice it and it's not just government but when an app works well when a service feels good you know it and so you know a good service you know good government is something that you know shouldn't need explaining you shouldn't need training to use it and it you should want to use them because they're better you should want to use those services so expectations are changing our world is becoming definitely increasingly better connected more dependent on technology and it really is therefore kind of shifting that the paradigm of service delivery so government has to be rethinking our processes introducing these modern practices and technologies to deliver services that do meet those rising expectations because at the end of the day the outcomes are what matters the most again we're here to we're here to help people get things done and you know the focusing on that outcome not on sort of the the plan of how we're going to get there there's really the none of this which is why kind of it always ends up going back to to empathy for me but you know again the ODS is a team of of nerds that are passionate about this stuff you know we talk at length about inclusivity and about accessibility and about really staying focused on the people using our services and what that does is it rubs off on the people that we're collaborating with so that you do start to see the wave of transformation take hold you know one of one of our biggest KPIs that I don't think we're really great at measuring but the one I like to talk about the most is that not that we delivered something that works that's great hopefully it works hopefully you know people like to use it etc but more important at least from my perspective and what this team is here to do in the long term is that whatever team we worked with they understand that the outcome that was produced was not just the shiny thing but was exposure to how we got it done and if they say yeah we want to do that again with our next project or our next program or you know or the next thing that they want to work on that is the check mark in the success you know in the success possible box whether they want to do it with us or whether they want to build a team of their own or whether they want to you know get a vendor to work with if they want to do well we just did with them which is you know build something with doing user research and in an agile and iterative iterative way showing up to you know sprint reviews and sprint planning and on all of that stuff they want to do that again that's a check mark in the success column for me so many most lots of Ontarians are interacting with the government through through this through Ontario dot CA so this is our teams really the crown jewel in all of the stuff that we work on and it's it's our our biggest focus is to keep Ontario dot CA up and running and alive and well and you know just to sort of run through a few things we had 64 million unique visits in 2017 with a hundred and twenty three million page views so you know it's it's it's getting a lot of traffic people are using it they're also sticking around the average bounce rate was about 31% in 2017 and people spent an average of two minutes 43 seconds on each page they visited and so it is a content focused website so those stats are actually pretty good you know to me it doesn't mean that people got lost and they sort of stuff but they actually found what they needed they spent time with it they read it hopefully they got what they needed and were able to get on with their life so you know those kind of numbers really I think do reaffirm our approach to how we're thinking about putting government content in front of the public and putting services online we are very much building from the perspective of Ontarians of people not government you know that one of the biggest problems with government over the last umpteen years has been that we deliver what we need to say to you not what you need to hear from us and so that has been the biggest shift I think you know really trying to stay user focused and doing the research to always be implementing things whether it's a you know whether it's just a sentence of text on a page or whether it's a heading on a page or whether it really is how you're interacting with the service staying focused on on on how people are using it and what they need not what we think that you need so contents brought together from a lot of from multiple ministries right now we're about halfway through transitioning ministries to Ontario.ca from from an old look and feel and an old URL and you know it really focused on presenting in a way that makes sense for people in businesses we are taking advantage of a you know modern stack sort of industry standard technologies and tools that really you know do result in a more flexible more secure and frankly way more cost efficient platform you know we were I think the first or one of the first projects to to go open source to go to the cloud you know it's very reusable and so you know this was one of those efforts that it was you know it was an experiment the CIO told the team to go and do it and we're going to learn from it and we've learned a lot from it and it's been fantastic it really has been the little engine that could because now honestly the ODS wouldn't exist if that team hadn't taken a stab at building Ontario.ca like this so we prototype the team prototype Ontario.ca in with Drupal 6 in 2011 and launched in 2012 with Drupal 7 our news project which Nick is the lead developer on is the environmental registry project with the ministry of I don't even remember what it's called now sorry anyway the environment ministry because I can't remember what it shifted its name to but that website's built with Drupal 8 so a lot of the newer work that we're building off of Ontario.ca is Drupal 8 and so Nick is lead dev on that organizing committee thank you very much he's also speaking later today I'll give you some details about that later but you can you know you can talk to him and some of the other folks on the Ontario.ca team about the really cool projects we have underway we're obviously or maybe not obviously but obviously from the logo using AWS so we are hosted in the cloud from their Montreal data center there's also some open shift in there on the DevOps side of things elastic search is powering the search and the kind of in-page content indexes and Ginex really acts as the traffic cop redirecting users to pages or features they need and we actually kind of decide whether we're going to display a cash copy or a fresh copy and then Angular is you know is the is the JavaScript you know stack that's essentially creating the web experience creating kind of the front end for for the website we're you know trying to follow all the best practices around everything from plain language which again very very important for government especially you know very clean simple design layout trying to keep it kind of you know tight and focused if you will a huge focus on as I mentioned on accessibility and inclusivity and kind of inclusive design again thinking about those edge cases so that you know we can make sure that if we're designing for those we're going to catch all the folks in the middle and then obviously thinking about you know mobility and it's optimized for mobile it's it's kind of mobile first mobile friendly but you know really focused on simple to use interactive tools to make you know what can feel very complex and daunting simple and easy to access so rollo Rolando Henry is doing a talk tomorrow doing a Drupal DevOps deep dive Saturday at 3.30 and Nick Kajewski is today at 3.30 and the title of your talk is local Drupal 8 development is a dream I love it so go check out those those guys today and tomorrow this it's gonna be gonna be good and you'll have a chance to kind of dig into to anything else get into the hood there was a slide in here talking about the back end and I'm like you know what that's just gonna sound like absolute shit coming out of my mouth so we took that out those guys can can fill you in on that this just you know I'm not quite that techy but this is our so Ontario CA is kind of our main platform and but this is our other platform if you will it's not a it's not a software platform but it's really a framework that's at the heart of both how we work and how we deliver how we deliver and how we work with other teams inside government it's called our digital service standard it's it's essentially 14 points that were you know drawn from successful practices both in the private sector and across government there are other government jurisdictions that also have digital service standard this this practice kind of started in the UK with the government digital service there and has spread so several jurisdictions have a digital service standard the US has something they call their playbook the CIO playbook and but this is essentially you know these are the 14 points that we feel like are quote-unquote the good path if you are following these 14 points and sort of the things that you know we have a at the website we try to go into what each one of them means and what success looks like for each of them but at the end of the day for teams that are trying to work like us and teams that come to us for assessment or for help if we can walk through these items and help them understand both how they're working and what they're doing and how they're doing it this is a path to success you know everything from you know what does establishing the right team mean well for us that means it is a multidisciplinary team you've got all kinds of folks at the table from designers and developers to policy people and stakeholders so that from the very first meeting to you know spirit reviews you've got folks at the table understanding what's happening with the project and with the product you know right there in the middle understand users and their needs and sure users can succeed the first time one that you probably wouldn't see in the private sector but there are equivalents test with the minister you know essentially saying it is important to make sure that your most important stakeholders see this work along the journey as well not just the day it's supposed to launch involve folks in the process so the digital service standard essentially exists to introduce this new approach to the folks that we work with but as I mentioned it really is kind of the heart of how we work so we have kind of a three tiered model of engagement with our government partners you know empower enable and engage empower is where you can take all of the stuff that we've created for ourselves our service design playbook our user research guide anything that's that sort of lives within the digital service standard and and just go you can come to us you can check in you can say hey I'd love to go through an assessment but really follow follow the standard use the tools and and just go on the other end of the spectrum is is engage where like the environmental registry project that I mentioned that we pulled together a team from our designers and developers and user researchers and product people inside the ODS and and go and work with and for the ministry as you know a self-contained products team and then in the middle is is enable whereas maybe a little bit of both where we got a couple people checking in for instance with the service Ontario product to help them think about user research to help them you know think about the steps that they're going to take to to kind of understand to understand the users or to understand how their flows are working etc but it's not necessarily a full-product team but at the heart of this is the digital service standard because that that can be the kind of the through line to to to how we we really again shift that Titanic that's that that's the that's the nut of our work is just getting folks to kind of work in a different way and to understand really what quote-unquote good looks like so this is our roadmap it's on github if you'd like to to to fork it or to change it we are open to comments you can get there through Ontario.ca slash digital standard and kind of work your way there but it is it is on github and it's certainly open for comment and would love to have you take a look but you know since the inception of ODS and honestly since the assumption of kind of digital government teams like ours are not so secret mission has been to rub off on the way to kind of rub off on those people that we're working with you know to be the the computer people that it's safe to go talk to to computer folks because you're not hiring a change management consultant you're not you know kind of you know asking people to to help you know sort of change the entire landscape of how you're working you're going to to chat with some folks and get some advice about technology or about you know maybe how we do something and and that's that's easier and it's it's a little bit of us being able to kind of you know not exactly the wolf and sheep's clothing is not the right metaphor but but but but but essentially to sort of be a little bit under the radar helping folks understand that that there is a different way to get this stuff done and that there is a team that exists to point to when you need help and you need backup and you'd like to try something different but you're kind of rubbing up you know you're hitting a wall with with your team or your boss or something and so come point at us you know come talk to me and and and you know we can sort of help maybe change some of the attitude because the power of having a team and government that's sort of going first and and probably getting a little bloody going through all those walls doing it but you know the advantage is essentially kind of outsourcing that that sort of first mover dilemma so we're reducing that risk and giving folks who have amazing ideas and really intractable problems and very important programs that they're trying to figure out how to modernize and just giving them a different lens and a different way to think about delivery the strategy is always delivery and what that means for me is we build things we try not to talk about them or do briefing notes about them or PowerPoint decks about them we try to just deliver something and let the thing show you kind of what what we can do and just to end this is a these are essentially leadership principles that a couple folks that on my team and namely Samir Vasta shout out to Samir he's incredible if you don't know him he spent several months kind of going across the OPS talking to talking to folks you know asking them kind of what leadership meant to them and then specifically what leadership sort of in the digital age meant and you know he really distilled all those conversations with me and with folks across the OPS into these eight principles and so I just kind of want to walk you through how we think about these eight things which are which are you know they're not new it's not rocket science but again in a government context it makes all the difference to have someone especially with the title you know I won't lie I didn't know what the hell the deputy minister was supposed to do when I got here I still don't know if I still don't know if I actually know what I'm supposed to do but I haven't started to understand what that title can allow for me to do and I feel like I'm trying to understand how to use that a little better and one of the things honestly is to just be able to stand up in front of other teams and say stuff like this and to and to let them know that that my team is trying to live these principles and that they have a place to go if some of this stuff doesn't make sense in their organization it's been pretty powerful and that's been a really exciting part of the job but we really are you know talking a lot about servant leadership and the idea that you know people at the top are here to support everybody else it's a top-down hierarchy and transformation or change management by memo does not work so we got a model behavior that we want to see we got to enable it in our teams and we got to let people go and so this is a little bit about a little bit about that and I won't spend too much time on this one because I have talked a lot about it but I think first and foremost you know the concept of obsessing about the user putting the user at the center and in terms of leadership you know if you build product you know I mean you kind of know what I'm talking about but in terms of leadership it's really about bringing that mentality to the heart of your decision-making as well so that you know you're putting your people but also the people you're serving at the heart of your decision-making the agile and iterative and I will note that that a there is not a capital a I don't care what kind of agile teams are using and I also don't mean that it's just for software development I don't mean that it's just about building things but you know especially again in that leadership context an agile and adaptable mindset is crucial to leading and kind of in this digital era we have to understand that we need a compass not a map maps don't work anymore maps at least they work when you're out and but you have to have compass too but you know maps and and waterfall plans and the idea that you know we're going to be able to know today all of the things that we have to build and say that yep it's going to get delivered on this date and this way and on this budget that doesn't work it just simply doesn't work and it also doesn't work if you're trying to do smaller things as well if you're trying to change your organization if you're trying to if you're trying to make a big decision about something you need a compass and not a map and we have to have that agile and adaptable mindset working in the open is a huge and hard and fundamental piece of the puzzle because what that does is it allows folks to be part of the conversation in a way that is unexpected especially especially in government and you know I'd like to sort of talk about information radiators you know especially now that my portfolio is a little bit bigger I can't know everything that's going on but if I can convince team just to be you know working in the open and having conversations in the open and making decisions in the open whether that's in Slack or in a Google Doc or in anything else then you know I and others have the opportunity to to search for something that I'm interested in and find it you know you sort of democratizing information across the team the other thing just quite frankly again kind of from that recruiting perspective is being very vociferous and open on our blog I have found both at ODS and when I was in the US at 18F the 18F blog was the number one people that people often cited to me as oh yeah I saw your blog and thought I had no idea that was happening in government and so it you start to you start to understand oh well people are talking about technical debt and user research and the picture in the blog post shows them working on a Mac I didn't know that happened in government so again you know just working out loud it has has side benefits as well but you know that just the the the open piece is a is a really big linchpin of kind of all of this work being data informed you know so letting data inform your decision-making using it as a tool not as a hammer but as a tool and and following the data some great stories from our team that I won't get into because I'm probably already over time but you know from our team about just following the data and finding opportunity where you know to make something better being prepared to fail fails a bit of a buzzword in the IT community or in the tech community or the startup community and fail is certainly a bad word in government but I do think it's important that we talk about it and that we put the F word on people's tongues so that you can you can start to talk about failure not as like a capital F let alone a capital AI that's going to end up on the front page of a newspaper but but as you know as a as a small low-risk thing that should happen because if you're not feeling you're probably not trying too hard or you're not pushing the edges or you're not you know kind of experimenting in a way that's going to make you and your team better and so if you're not trying or if you're not failing you're probably not trying and so letting folks in positions of of power and authority know that their teams should be failing they should expect it again not big ones but little ones fail a little bit every day bring a bad idea you know to the boss and and say we're going to test this and it might not work and that's okay because then we're going to know that that didn't work and we'll go somewhere else but having that conversation is really super important and a lot of folks are starting to warm to the idea that of course that that piece is necessary but it's it's hard so we just kind of have to keep talking about it challenge everything like I said especially in government there are lots of entrenched and outdated practices that we just have to question and we have to again it's not with judgment but it's it's at the root of being able to say I think there might be a better way and if you can't show me that it's in a law or regulation or policy somewhere then we can probably change it and let's look at a better a newer a fresher a more adaptable way to do something so again then from the leadership side it really is about wanting your team to challenge you expecting your team to challenge you and thriving on that because again you're gonna learn from it just like you're gonna learn from the small failures and from the things that don't work you know I want folks challenging me embracing the chaos change is hard transformation is hard the work that we do is hard partnering with with ministries is hard but but chaos is is a little bit of what brings life to all of this and and does make it fun so you know the cornerstone honestly of being able to do any other things I've talked about you know empowering your team enabling folks to fail the cornerstone of any of that is is trust and building trust is is messy it is chaotic so you know I'm trying to make every effort that that I can to make sure that our teams feel supported and included and you know if just from little things you know trying to over communicate but you know allowing the right decision to be made by the right person at the right level of the organization and not everything has to ladder up I got to hear what's his name read read it's not read Hoffman hey yeah we're Hastings CEO of Netflix speak recently and you know he he he was joking as he said it but it there's a very important message there which he said I haven't made a decision in a quarter you know meaning only the really really big things are laddering up to him his teams are getting their shit done and that's what needs to happen but that takes trust and that's hard and chaotic and can be messy so we have to embrace it and finally being unreasonably aspirational as public servants you know we want to do the the most that we can do the best that we can do be the best that we can be because it because it is hard and because we do face constraints but at the end of the day you know we're striving really toward that goal of just making the government work for everyone creating that culture inside the public service that we think can help us better respond to your needs and to your raised expectations and that in and of itself is I think what keeps me and and our team focused on kind of being perhaps a bit unreasonably aspirational can't do it alone the ODS is part of a bigger puzzle again we we work with and for all of those people's across ministries with awesome ideas they just need a little help figuring out how to deliver it and we need a bit of help ourself so I'll end with that reminder which is just that there are lots of teams doing really amazing work our team is one of them their teams across the government doing really cool work code for Canada is recruiting their new cohort of fellows right now there's the Canadian digital service in Ottawa and the civic tech community is really thriving and I think has an opportunity in this new mandate to thrive you know where the government is going to be looking for ways to help you know have business help get it you know get things done have have communities help us get things done and so the civic tech community is a huge piece of this puzzle if you haven't been to civic tech Toronto they meet every Tuesday and there are groups like that all over Ontario and and and all over so take it again to but so just to close folks from ODS I see several folks here would you mind standing up just for a second because I could just stand up here and tell you all this but they make shit happen so I'm glad you all are here because you all you can be our ambassadors and maybe recruit a few of the rest of us thanks for having me I hope I hope this was somewhat entertaining and I hope you have a great weekend thanks