 Um, so now someone said something in chat, which means this must be working. Oh, I hope so This is way of a broadcast to be published. How the hell could it be not published while someone's still talking The first two times I just said no for the third time it just works why well, they just really wanted to make sure that you were sure Not annoyed at all You wanted to be certain that this is something you actually wanted to do they didn't want you to jump into anything, you know prematurely All right. Well, that's asking for your consent smaller, but it didn't it just said no Well, it wasn't giving you it's it's finally decided to give you its consent What's it trying to teach me here that if ever anyone says no, I just have to keep asking That's terrible The answer you want to hear After that presumably become violent. Oh god, I guess that's why YouTube allows onisian to stay around Isn't he deciding to not be on YouTube anymore or something that would be for the best Run while you still That would be shocked if he did that since this is his only source of income true Surely he's saying I built I would honestly be a little disappointed because I want it to get to the point where Chris Hansen just like comes into his house and asks him from behind one of his walls Yeah, or he just melts through the wall Okay, so it's fun like the ghost of Chris Hansen haunting onisian in his own home would be fucking amazing Yeah, he's like he's been popular on YouTube now for like he's one of like the longest running Like well, he hasn't exactly been popular well popular as in gets views not like he's not favored nobody fucking likes don't need to see on as far as I'm aware It's like poetry that Chris Hansen is the one that comes to take him down Where is an easy on doing that Chris Hansen? Was concerned with What isn't onisian doing that Chris Hansen is concerned with is what you should be asking for reference There are three streams on my channel right now Two of them non-live one of them live or so to unlist the others because YouTube's really clever It puts them up and then says I can't stream then puts another one up says I can't stream puts a third one up and says yeah, that's okay You have to do it in threes guys. It all makes sense now to change the thumbnail and then everything is perfect. Okay That's how this works Someone in the chat just said you know two streams public that aren't to this one Yeah, that should be fixed in the next few minutes same with a thumbnail It's okay. The people who come here like six hours from now won't know the difference Yeah streaming on YouTube is kind of like when you're Drinking from a glass and it's just the ice left and there's a little bit of drink left And so you tilt it and tilt it and tilt it and then all of a sudden I have a latch Yeah, that's kind of and you swallow a whole cube by accident and you feel like shit Yeah, goes down into your lungs and die all of a sudden from three streams I don't think I've ever swallowed an entire ice cube by accident. What if an ice cube went into your lungs? Would you just straight up die? How would it go into your lungs? You got this hole in your throat. Yeah leads to your lungs. That's the one we have humans have an incredible one pipe design Because some issues shut up rag is perfect. Okay There's literally nothing that can go wrong with any of the pieces of design about the human body I like that if evolution was a person you'd be like you did okay, but you did you know, yeah It works it works, but he's like look at all the other stuff. You guys are lucky. You're like, well can't fly but okay And then he probably argue that we can fly with technology and then we're just splitting hairs So yes, it is live now the thumbnail is correct. There's only one stream everything is Operating as intended and as far as I'm aware my internet should survive That's not even on guarantee. So let's just hope we can sail all the way to 11 hours and 55 minutes on this wonderful Christmas themed EFAP, which I don't even think we've managed to get one of them yet ranks Like one not one We got we need to do another one like suit after this that we've got the riser Skywalker one It'll be fine rise a Skywalker one our lives will be changed. Oh, yes They will it will consume us you a cure every waking hour The excitement is through said roof You guys can watch it so I don't have to oh no be the nostalgia critic We watched it so you don't have to I remember it so you don't have to you ever read like into the whole The controversy behind all the stuff that have my channel awesome Apparently like when they were filming this shit for different roles He would like tell people they need to act more like cartoon characters to be entertaining to appeal to people They need to be like bouncy and high-pitched and stuff. I was just saying to myself like if I was on set and you told me to Do that be like fucking hell Be like I don't know if it should be like do a poll with people because I don't know if that's really true I would just be like maybe it works to have someone about soft who isn't that you know mix it up a little bit I love that that's what his stipulation was for them But then you watch his videos and they're fucking horrible like those skits are just terrible and they've kept them going for like a decade It's crazy. In fact, there's more now than there ever was with the crazy new like he's hired a whole cast and If the warehouse and I don't know manage committing to those skits They're not good like red light of media when setting up reviewing some crappy film will have skits They're like 10 times better I'm just thinking about anything with rich evidence Someone the chat said I saw the last Jedi again. It didn't improve for the second viewing The third one you won't even be bored That wasn't even covered on eFab that video, right? We never actually did it the I hit everything would but that beam spread over Was a really stupid quote It's well, it doesn't tell you anything Okay, I wonder if people are consistently bored with like the room. Does that mean it's good? How can you be bored by the room? That's what that's my point if you're not bored by the third watching in the room That means it's good. It's the best thing of them all Thumbnail is wrong if you are watching the room alone Thumbnail is not wrong. I am outraged At least this is not for me Which is all the way wrong that I don't want to be right. I can check from an unbiased source. Yes, the thumbnail is correct Refreshing is a bound. All right. We've got what you would call a long-show plan for today So I would say that we're probably just gonna get get right into it get get the old The wheels turning as they say We're gonna start with a look into a video that Fucking everybody's been telling me about And I'm not even talking about that stream that me and rags did with loads of superchats are talking about this video No more like Twitter and stuff this some I've had people say this has changed their mind on TLJ This is this guy. They're going from thing. It's a bad movie to think in this this movie's not so bad Actually with this video. It's a it's relatively new. It's what you could call a hot take I suppose to try and explore the positives of TLJ. That's what I've heard. So you guys excited I'm really excited for another one of these No, no, no guys, it's a TLJ is actually really good. Well, you know, have you hit every argument? Can you say no? You can't no So color me excited Gonna learn some shit ex-barrow feet Michael Bolton. No, that's that's They're trying to prevent us from seeing whatever this video is the Jack's personally not as nice as a Funny pandas epic laughs Well, hard to beat in it. We're being completely honest Let's see for gentlemen of the year. That's another classic. Oh, let's get this is it up for both of you Yeah, but it's at 31 minutes Yeah, it does have a lot of videos like skipping them around Is a few ranks that zero It is at zero correct How I think we should we should mention that was the shortest intro we've ever had on the No time for an intro Busy we've only got 12 hours. How are we supposed to pack this it is impossible? Oh My goodness. All right, I'm excited you guys are let's do this Welcome to a ff 40 60 64. That's the one. I nailed it Okay, whoo-hoo. Oh my god copyrighted music probably Is that like public domain? Well, I don't know it might be old enough to be public domain at this point Wait, how does that work with like copyrightism is on YouTube? Is it like in a hundred years from now? They're all gonna have to expire and then videos can be free. We can finally get the two towers video out. Well And doom maybe Yeah, do do's actually do it. I should I should measure that the two towers is actually the worst now I go ahead to re-read to it again yesterday. Oh, let me check where doom is that because I think it's over a week now You do it but it has a two-week part what all right, December 3rd, it's been nine days Did you ever send me another two towers? Oh, you know what? Just remind me and I'll send it to you after the stream or actually We talked about that the last time that we talked to yeah because I got hit with another one It's like oh, well it fucked All right too late who gives a shit It's funny. Um, there's a lot of takes on TLJ coming out now rather than Like like sudden I think I think that TLJ is getting ramped up big time because Rise of Skywalk is about to come out and Once we see that film. It's gonna tell us a lot Additionally about TLJ in terms of like what's stayed what's not what's what we can conclude on I think a lot of people like preemptively being like TLJ was good though. Okay Yes Welcome to too late who gives a shit the show in which I talk about something that's already been thoroughly reviewed debated that every possible opinion Has been expressed over and that no one wants to hear anything about ever again making this video that reaction Don't fucking idea let your fanbase die Kill it if you have to The corner of the internet is still losing hatred for it watch a video of kittens playing and someone is shitting on the last Jedi beneath it You know You know Max Haas from the Wolfenstein games. Yeah, I I don't remember exactly how it led up to this but I asked people on Twitter to Photoshop his face on the Kylo Ren and They sent like a dozen or so to me and so many of them have does it hurt It's the line at the bottom and you just see Max Haas's fucking Broken head on Kylo Ren. It's like, yeah, it looks like it hurts a little that sums up this character. It's well It's really hard to explain that one to her To the people outside of each other. It's like what's what's for the does it here? You're like, well Bear with me well Think of a toilet think Ray is on the to you know, it's no point explaining You're probably not into it anyway, even if you did get it We'll be in rags around the high council recently and Jeff was telling us that everyone's in a while They'll just be an in pouring of a new meme that none of the hosts have any idea about like Jeb was one of them They were just talking about Jeb on their show and they were just confused Apparently like EFAP memes are infectious to that degree with a whole cast of people just like I don't get it I Think every podcast for now on needs like a representative of EFAP law to be there to help everyone out We need to have archivists and librarians Great the ones the great holders of the tomes Yeah, I don't know TLJ being a divisive film I find that there's defenses and attacks of TLJ in all kinds of places all over play I don't feel like there's more of one or the other Though I suppose the tide is turning to a degree like I still get added into tweets the people who are like, you know Finally people who hate the last Jedi are starting to like calm down whatever and I'll be like, oh I didn't know that was the case. We can't have that happening. We need to rile them back up I've got a rile. It's bit those wheels everybody stoke the flames again I think a lot of I think a lot of people have just like accepted that it's terrible And they just want to move on and they don't care anymore unless you're on Twitter in which case There's a disturbing amount of people that still think it's good. Yeah Caring can't end right now because of rides of Skywalker. I think Like everyone's kind of interested in say like how long do they think it'll be of us talking about Rides of sky woke up before everyone just goes that TLJ though Hey, there's a new film. It's like no talking about the other one The prequels had a notoriously bad reception But this almost seems worse or at least more confusing because this time critics mostly loved the movie. Did he blur out its ass? Oh, I don't know why am I on zero now? It's zero for my time. I'm on 41 seconds. I'm at 39 It's back. Oh my god. We're we're all No, I'm on So we'll throw that around again, but why does this say? Uh actual critics not trash youtubers like me like the film what Why would you say that? By actual critics does he mean people on rotten tomatoes? I wait, is it playing for you? No, no, I'm paused because is that 41 for me? Let me let me play it quickly and with a Let me roll it back so you can see This almost seems worse or at least more confusing. He did blur out his ass See this screenshot Yes, actual critics not trash youtubers like me Well, I don't care what I don't why why doesn't actual critic better than a youtube critic? I was gonna say does anyone put stock in the rotten tomatoes critics? They're terrible Yeah, because if anything it's almost like something you don't want to say like what are you? I'm uh I'm a rotten tomatoes critic They're like, okay all right sure Okay, then it's like being a check mark on twitter The other thing that kind of ruins this is that uh, didn't jeremy johns become a rotten tomahawk's critic without even Being aware of it like apparently He's like on there and let's just say he has a video where he says this movie's pretty good It'll be he certifies it fresh on ron tomahawk's and he'll be like what? Oh Okay, so what i'm getting at is that he's like a youtube vlogger Who is now an actual critic? Assuming you're an actual critic if you're on rotten tomatoes pretty sure grace randolph is the same and this is the thing um You know if you if us three were offered like do you guys want to be officialized as a rotten tomahawk's critic? I'm pretty sure all three of us would be like no Never I don't want to have anything to fucking do with that website. It's awful. You'll be like oh It's embarrassing. It's like you've got to provide a paragraph's worth of criticism as the as the hook for your review But um, yeah, let me let me roll it back see what he actually said about actual critics Watch a video of kittens playing and someone is shitting on the last jedi beneath it The prequels had a notoriously bad reception But this almost seems worse or at least more confusing because this time critics mostly loved the movie With a final chapter of the so He said critics mostly loved the movie and then he's got the asterix on actual critics mostly loved the movie Why would you refer to them as actual critics instead of just rotten tomatoes once? I don't know. Maybe it's tongue-in-cheek. Maybe it's literal actual critics Legitimate critics. Well, I don't know how I don't know how he thinks of them But I don't give a shit with rotten tomatoes critics have to say I guess what it says don't hold too much stock in them Then I still don't understand why anyone gives a shit about rotten tomato scores at this point I thought we discovered years ago that it was a terrible way to rate movies And didn't uh, how wasn't it not too long ago? What was that guy who said that, you know, the marvel movies weren't real cinema? Oh, Scorsese Scorsese Yeah, so it's like well, I guess shit opinions can come from everywhere. Can't they absolutely In fact, that's a great thing about humans. There's no one selection of area that we can get good play of things from It's worse or at least more confusing because this time critics mostly loved the movie With the final chapter of the story looming I wanted to entangle myself in this clusterfuck of a thing by offering a breakdown of why I think the film is good But first by watching this video, you certify that you were a maternal capable of considering opinion's contradictory to you And with that Why do they always do this? Such as boycott or retaliate what? harassment, you know, that's boycott boycotts are the same thing being boycotts are not much Mature adults don't boycott things if they're terrible, I suppose. All right I mean, I interesting It's not really a good thing to put in tandem with harassment campaigns Because those are two very different things mature adults do not boycott Okay All right, so let's go back through history and look at all the boycotts that were good. Yep No immature people it's just oh a couple people were saying that was apparently sarcastic the actual critics thing I don't I don't see how that would be sarcastic. He put a clarification Why is it that people like to use the sarcasm? Excuse when there's like no indication. It's being sarcastic whatsoever I'm fine with it being sarcastic because he called himself a trash youtuber Yeah, but like That seems like he's almost self deprecating in a sense that's like, hey, we're all just youtubers. Those guys actually know what they're talking about Well, if that's what he means that's retarded But that's that's the impression I've gotten maybe I'm wrong But I thought that's what he was trying to say it was like he's because if his point is critics actually like tlj I'd be on his team actually. I'd be like, yeah, it seems to be but then he clarified as like actual critics By the way, would I be like, well, what does that mean? What is what why would you say like that? Does he just be odd way to phrase it certainly. Yeah, that's that's all Because uh, the critics did love tlj from what I remember, right like the the people on rotten tomorrows and stuff Yeah real genuine actual All right, organizing razzman campaigns and other retaliatory reactions. This video is merely one fan's opinion presented for any This video is merely one fans opinion presented for entertainment purposes and is intended for individuals with a sense of humor If you do not have I have that then you're encouraged to watch something else. Well Let me say this This stream that you're currently listening to anyone out there Is merely three fans opinions presented for entertainment purposes and is intended for individuals with a sense of humor If you do not have one then you're encouraged to watch something else There you go. Now now we're all covered. Yep. He's covered. We're covered. It's all great. We did it. Yep Entertainment purposes it is intended for individuals with a sense of humor if you do not have one Then you're encouraged to watch something else now with that out of the way We can talk about how star wars fans are the very worst people Just the dumbest Oh, shut up you stayed You stayed I mean see that comes across as sarcastic to me. Yeah, that's sarcastic. Yeah, that's My good stuff. I'm okay with that. What does it mean by the you stayed part though? I guess after the after the thing. Yeah Oh, okay. I thought he meant like you still doing the whole you still watch the movie thing All that fans kept saying after the prequels was how much they wanted movies like the originals again I'm not sure they understood what that meant because those films were made under completely different You're answering your own question. Wait, you're not sure they Well, it depends on who you ask I suppose Rex, what would you say you mean when you say I'd like more films like the ot More character based a scale they can handle Uh reliance on character interactions in character development And a more logical world that responds realistically to the things that characters do the way they interact with the world around them Wolf same question I just want good writing man Is that so fucking hard Yes, it is. If someone asks me I feel like They go you can't get films like the ot because they were made it like they're like a terrific store What sort of that I'd be like, okay. Yeah. No, I understand what I mean Is films that like have a really strong cause and effect that pay attention to the rules that are set And that focus pretty hard on character as opposed to spectacle That would be my preference. Um, but You know, depending on who you talk to they can mean all kinds of different things, I guess Uh The talk of the town I believe with the prequels about like, oh my god We need ot movies not like these a lot of people would appeal to like the overuse of cgi I remember that being one of the most common things said The dialogue not being um up to snuff, um The plot being confusing. I know a lot of people found it Like hard to follow exactly what politically was happening, especially in the first not so much the second I think the second was a little bit more straightforward if I remember but the third did pretty well But I don't think anybody was complaining about world building that seemed to be like the general sense Of what was what was wrong with the prequels if you will and that um, I don't know the ot managed to offer a general general satisfaction for all of the elements of what someone might expect to be in a star wars film, but Uh, that is how it takes. Let's let's see where he goes with this The dumbest. Oh, shut up You stay Fuck you all that fans kept saying after the prequels was how much they wanted movies like the originals again I'm not sure they understood what that meant because those films were made under completely different circumstances When star wars was silly Didn't think there's gonna be any good. Yes, I did lay as your sister. I said, oh come on for her. So, um There isn't any film that can't be looked at as silly as far as I can tell Yeah, especially when it comes to the actual production of it Yeah, almost even more so because there'll be things in backstage that'll look like really dumb and the kind of thing Would they go? Hey, this will look great in post Oh, yeah, um It's it's the whole I imagine if you got a big super cut of game of thrones actors and Extras goofing off behind the scenes. I mean, we got it with lord of the rings, certainly um But just those people being the people not the characters understanding that they're making a movie whole lot different than what goes on You know in the movie. So it's certainly not unique to star wars Probably strange if that's what didn't happen Daenerys writing a green screen mechanical bull because that's what they would need it to do in order to get the Dragon work it like how dumb that must feel you're like, yeah Does it look great in the film? I mean a lot of greens with all the props nowadays and the green screens and the face caps and stuff like that They're gonna be all kinds of those things where you just have to just pretend that what you're doing here is something that's You know something that's epic even though it's just you walking around in a green box Um And yeah the prequels I think were silly there's see the silly elements to the sequels, right? Like like if we're gonna go with Stuff like a guy in a tin can as a droid a girl with a weird hairdo, you know, like that sort of thing It's like well, okay. Yeah, I guess the silly stuff in all stars because it's very Very out there very fantasy crazy all things are happening. So I don't really Know how this would mean that you can't well because like he almost framed it as being like the OT is silly so Here he goes circumstances when star wars was silly Didn't think it's gonna be any good. Yes. I did lay as your sister. I said, oh come on for hair Weird buns on the side. I said, this is the goofiest thing I've ever read you got to read this I passed it all around didn't nobody care. You know, we have large dogs flying spaceships You know, you describe it and people say oh dear This loads of films that applies to yeah You gotta love that george lucas himself is even like yeah when you try to explain it to people It sounds a little weird. Yeah, but that's a lot of things though If you if you try to explain a lot of things in their most crass and vulgar way, they'll sound ridiculous And then oh, yeah, I mean finalized product is just fine and everyone loves it lord of the rings for small people Elf a dwarf who's also small but not quite as small Wait, you gotta when you say elf you have to like you can't even say that you have to be like a man who's Tall and doesn't weigh much Yeah, he doesn't play much The story of four midgets as they attempt to destroy the favorite piece of jewelry of a ghostly demon lord And if the giant fiery eyeball on top of the tower gets the ring back then bad things will happen to the world This isn't this this is this goes for basically anything you could Isn't there accounts and things about like shitty plot summaries and stuff like that Yeah, you can get some really fun ones because you're like, oh, shit That's describing this film because you did you did that man A man dressed it as as a giant leather bat goes around punching people Also, he's really rich and i'm not gonna say like it's not the easiest thing to do with the film like 12 angry men or it's like Either a jury and they discuss the the the merits of a case Like how do you make that silly? It's like, okay. Yeah, but we're talking about sci-fi fantasy Like it's not like star wars is individual in that case pretty much all of it Uh, because the whole idea is you're creating a new world or at least one that's very different Um But uh, yes space eyes, you know, it's hard to really say explain that to somebody without not space I sorry the medieval fire eye on a tower. It's like what? Sit all around get nobody cared. You know, we have large dogs flying spaceships You know, you describe it and people say, oh dear The wookiee has no pants Lucas originally wanted to do flash gordon and couldn't get the rights to it So he cobbled together ideas from westerns and samurai films to make his own space adventure What he made me think of is the uh, japanese sword master That's what was based on Yeah, I mean this is inspirations for everything. Uh, yeah, this one's Like I think the first time I heard about this was the plinket videos Back in the day of the prequels. He was like the flash gordon stuff Lucas had a lot of inspirations But when you like cobbled together all different kinds of elements for all different kinds of your favorite media You probably will end up generating something that would be classed as new It was so unoriginal that it doubled back on itself and became original again I I don't know about that so unoriginal it doubled back and became original Yeah, I definitely was not original then Does is that is that kind of like a paraphrase vision of what I just said about like how you have so much stuff Copied over that you eventually create something new That's that doesn't mean it's not original. Well, that's that's kind of where I'm at. I'm like, yeah Okay, we took so many different things and change them and rearrange them and move them around That it something completely new that ever. Yeah, I definitely don't agree with this sentiment Would like him to develop it I guess for me No one knew what Star Wars was when it released Audiences had never seen a movie like it. They had to be shown what it was by Lucas and the subsequent filmmakers But it turned out to be a story. They already knew Lucas heavily based the plot on classic mythology, especially joseph cambell's writings on the hero's journey Oh, yeah, but you can make this argument for a lot of stories Sure. Well, that's like saying that 80 percent of things aren't original Yeah, at this point we start to have to split hairs or at least be very specific in definition of what makes a new property versus an old one or a republished one I certainly wonder how many people who watch the original trilogy actually think about, you know, the once in future king the uh Epic of Gilgamesh stuff like that because I you know, I imagine it's a very small number When I watch Star Wars, I personally think of the writings of carl marx and what they mean to the universe As as thomas barthol just said original doesn't even equal good So like just because so it is brand new didn't come from anywhere else Like not to say that what he's saying is this is a flaw. I'm not entirely sure where he's going with this, but um You know, you could you could have something that's generated from I'm trying to think of a property that felt like it came from nowhere Like it's just brand new in every way, but even the creator of said thing would probably be like not quite Like they have to tell you like there's always That's just how we think we explore the unknown through the known. We that that's how we kind of contextualize new experiences Um, so when you're creating new works of art or fiction Then yeah, you're gonna take all of the baggage, uh, that you know of your memories and what you understand about Media and literature and you're gonna take a little bit of this and a little bit of that a little bit of this And you might not even do it, you know With you know meaning to a lot of that very well might be subconscious or you might have a certain archetype of a character in your Mind or even maybe a particular character from another thing that you change around and use as inspiration But I don't think that's not being creative because if you just want to pure creativity could be terrible because you're just thinking of stuff and The the most outlandish things possible and I'll just slap it in there Maybe the reason that a lot of stories are related to other stories is because We know that certain things Are appealing and they're interesting and people generally like them and just gobbledygook on screen is Not something that people really care about And it's cool to sort of there's this value in like repackaging ideas to be more appealing to a new audience or different audience um the idea that everything comes from somewhere again like i'm not against that the uh It depends on how far you take it like someone goes my character is a guy who lost his wife And like oh so original he like okay Yeah, he lost his husband. No, I've been done He lost his keys Well, uh, there's a story about that. Um But yeah, like you know depending on how you define everything Nothing is original or every Lots of things are just it's about what where you draw the line I would say Star Wars isn't science fiction. It's an adventure that's thousands of years old and universal to every culture I attribute most the success to the psychological underpinnings Which had been around for thousands of years and the people still react the same way Lucas took that mythology and told it on the biggest scale it had ever been told on Again, that applies to a lot of stories Like big payoffs in stories where a character is killed or a character achieves their goal Like things that we all understand humanity values in terms of like, um, that was an it was a big moment Like I enjoyed that the idea that like star wars is the one that's kind of appealing to this thousand year old known um emotional sort of connection when I would just argue that most things do Like how actual films will have a big fight toward the end Let's just yeah a lot of these last Jedi reviews start off with talking about the the Other things that aren't the last Jedi like they're really trying to build up this idea and they can't just talk about The movie I'm not sure where he's going. I'm just sort of like trying to offer a different pathway We'll we'll see what he's gonna conclude from this. I'll be very interested Before which is the ultimate achievement of star wars A generation was forever changed by these movies to the people that grew up with star wars It's not just a movie they like it is their childhood Star wars is no longer silly. It's sacred and I think people would be willing to admit it's still silly Yeah, I certainly think there are some silly aspects to it. Absolutely Like it's only for getting the episode six exists like the entire first half of the film that you walks are pretty silly I don't know Plus, I mean, let's look at um, I mean, let's look at the sports fans Right. I mean how silly it is that there's such a huge vast industry Untold millions of dollars every year are spent on the idea that a bunch of guys in padding have to move a Ball from one side of a rectangle to the other and they come up with all these complicated rules to seemingly make it as difficult as possible And yet it's become just iconic in a way that probably nothing else in culture is And I mean, yeah, sure you could say oh, yeah, well, that's silly because when you break it down and da da da Star Wars certainly isn't an exception in that regard A lot of things can be done like this. I'd hate to be that guy, but like by silly You just mean something that's like unusual strange or kind of could be looked at as kind of funny in terms of how goofy it is Like if we're looking at that it's like surely Yoda would fall into that despite the fact that I love Yoda I think he's awesome. He's like a great character But like if someone said do you think he's silly? I'd be like, yeah, kind of What's he going on about with the silly thing like? Yeah, we get it So what's there seems to be the argument here he's setting up the people take the ot is like sacred and Not silly And maybe well, let's see where he moves into The situation was forever changed by these movies to the people that grew up with star wars It's not just a movie. They like it is their childhood Star wars is no longer silly It's sacred and this is where the fun begins because now everyone in exclusive I don't know. Um, yeah, because I would say yeah, a lot of people do think that the ot is sacred And depending on how you define all of that it's perfectly reasonable, but It's silly you Certainly should be cherished for what it has done culturally But I mean nothing's like off limits for criticism. Yeah, it depends on how or how you mean it Star wars is no longer silly. It's sacred and this is where the fun begins Because now everyone in the theater thinks they know what star wars is better than a filmmaker And We'll play this part like four times we're doing again. I just want to make sure I catch what he says It's like not just a movie. Sorry. It is their childhood Star wars is no longer silly. It's sacred And this is where the fun begins because now everyone in the theater thinks they know what star wars is better than the Filmmaker and who could tell them they're wrong these directors are okay, but Who can tell someone that they're wrong definitively if you think that there is someone who can Why would ryan johnson know star wars any better than you know, joe blogs john? Yeah, he John ryan johnson clearly knows fuck all about star wars But he's the one that disney hired to just make the movie And so does he now know more about star wars than the people? It's like he's saying that just because they made a movie in the universe despite not creating that universe That they know more about it than the fans of that universe who've been watching it for decades Yeah, we've talked about this before it's uh, if I created a fake universe across like 12 books or something I would be almost certain if I had like a strong base of a million readers Let's say I'd be like yes somebody out there knows my universe better than me for sure Let's just kind of how passion goes just because he's a director of star wars doesn't mean he Like isn't this just an appeal to authority That's a mention. I'm pretty sure I don't remember the exact quote But I remember georgia or martin saying that he had like a couple mega fans help him write A world of ice and fire that big like kind of encyclopedia of the world and shit And uh, they knew more about it than he did seemingly because he would forget that he'd killed off a character already And they'd be like no wait georgia can't do that and Like the buffy remaster I think we talked about I was like just give it to a bunch of people who actually love buffy Instead of people who are in it because that's their job I mean I could make a zelda game doesn't mean I know anything about zelda. Yeah And you know, it's like what are you saying that ryan isn't a fan of stars? I'd be like, um I don't know. It's just he comes across as though. He doesn't seem to really care if he fucks things up. That's all yeah I'm so like he respects it at all because he's a little dismissive with how he puts this up, right? It's like the fucking people in the audience think they know better than jg or ryan and I'm like, oh well Why wouldn't they? Like I don't know it just adds to reason Let's get this whole thought of his kind of together and see what he's like It is their childhood Star Wars is no longer silly. It's sacred And this is where the fun begins because now everyone in the theater thinks they know what star wars is better than the filmmaker And who could tell them they're wrong these directors are just fans like anyone else Everyone was impacted by the movies differently And so everyone has their line in the sand their vision for what the characters should be and any new story Is inevitably going to alienate one part of the fan base or the other Yeah, right, but it sort of implies that like they're all equally valid or something There are things we've seen in the films that can't be denied like there's certain things you just cannot do without breaching Especially since the fan image of the originals has gotten so disordered that the last jedi ended up being heavily criticized for Doing the very things those movies did in fact I would take it a step further and say that if the empire strikes back had somehow only been released today to this fan base They would probably tear apart that argument again So who's the who's the first? I think it was ryan johnson the first I heard this argument from that if empire was released today everyone in the fan base would like rip it to shreds Of course ryan johnson would say that so I guess first thing would be Yes, there would be people who don't like it naturally because there is no film that everyone likes um Secondly, like would it be as divisive as the last jedi? It's like You'd have to tell me how why you have to have arguments. You can't just say that that would be the case Yeah, it's like maybe maybe not. How do we find out tfa wasn't divisive for the most part when it came out It was like pretty well praised from what I remember Yeah, the force awakens everyone really seemed to like it I liked it richam the jedi was pretty well liked the uh, obviously the prequels were divisive But then that would only support our point that how is it that tfa didn't get this treatment Until much later But um, all right, let's let's let's hear some more very things those movies did In fact, I would take it a step further and say that if the empire strikes back had somehow only been released today To this fan base, they would probably tear it apart Visual aberrations were never established in the prior canon. You can't just make abilities up. Oh, he's sky choking Okay, okay, we'll take we'll take a bit by bit. So visual aberrations were never established in a new hope That was his that was the first criticism. And again, this is what I mean by like creating arguments I'm on board with this like you could do this today. It wouldn't Be any different now than it would have been when the film came out um, so we knew That obi one could talk to luke after being killed slash whatever vader does to him when he makes him disappear um Would you what what exactly happens is in terms of like a bad result that obi one can appear to luke? What what like what does that do? Doesn't affect anything. Yeah, and and if anything I would say the talking to him is much more significant But that was already in the first film. So in terms of an extension I don't see any problem with it as a development Um, and that's that's by the way something I feel about new force powers in general Uh, I'm okay with new force powers. I just don't want them to fuck everything up that came before and One of the ways to do it is to have super advanced only, you know Like I remember that to that being the defense of the skype calls Yeah, um, but it was like only snook can do it and snook is like the most powerful thing ever and you're like, okay It's better. Um The second one was how is Certainly help. Yeah, the second one is how is vader choking the guy through the tv Uh, so Pregnant me if I'm wrong, but are they are they not on the same ship or are they on ships that are nearby? I thought they were on the same ship I don't know. I'd have to rewatch it again and spend a couple years But yeah, I don't know. Um, the one that, uh Made everyone questionable in tlj was that Snoke had to use hyperspace to catch up to hux and he managed to force choke him through a tv through a hologram Across the length of a hyperspace, right? However long that would have been That seems a little more ridiculous than vader doing it across either a singular ship or just to a ship that's nearby So, um, yeah, like I can get why this is coming from And he is looking at a the guy on the screen. So Yeah, and by the way, this this guy isn't saying these are good arguments He's just presenting them as what people could have said about empire and what our counter would be is that? Yeah, and there's validity to each argument These aren't doing so well so far. Let's see. What else he's got. They would probably tear it apart Visual apparitions were never established in the prior canon. You can't just make abilities up. Oh, he's sky choking him through the tv Okay. Oh, hello pressurized space They're in a worm Yeah, they're not on yeah, they're not on like a bear asteroid. They're inside a living creature So it would make you could definitely make the argument that there's atmosphere inside the creature, I suppose This is no, I remember when I was a kid watching this for the first time Even though I didn't know much about space I had I was like Why aren't they wearing helmets in space? But then it turned out to be a worm And I was like, oh, yeah, okay. Well, it's not a problem then And I imagine that's what all the fog is trying to uh, tell us Like this is uh, almost like a landscape thanks to the whim um So, all right So this doesn't seem relevant at all to the last Jedi. Well, I'm sure we'll get there It's fine, but I'm sure we'll get there But if anything is like this, how many times does this happen how instead of defending the last Jedi let's attack something else If the best that you can do Yeah, the best that you can do is to say, oh, yeah, well the other stuff was bad too And I'm like, okay, but we're talking about the last Jedi Also a lot of people are saying that Vader and Osil were on the same ship Which again, like I said, I think that's far more reasonable than being at the stretch of a hyperspace jump Like I think anybody would agree that especially when it's Vader the greatest force user in the canon before the sequel trilogy But um, yeah As for this next one like what is the worm eating? How does it stay alive? It's like, uh, I guess we have no idea It could literally be rocks Like from the thing. It's an alien creature. Who knows if it actually needs sustenance. I have no fucking clue Until you present a contradiction What are we supposed to assume that the the worm needs a backstory? It's not snook It didn't like make the first order rise that sort of thing. It's just it's fine. Um And uh, who says that the worm only eats spaceships Well, I this is what I mean like we have no idea what how the worm works or why it's there How do we know it doesn't travel through space and it chose to you know Sit in there for a while How do we know it's not the alaskan bull worm thrown from bikini bottom into space and ended up there? Mm-hmm We don't know it's very bad No clue. Also I can't help but notice that he's presenting these people as whiny Yeah, of course Just just just you know cozy atmosphere in a space rock fan you can only survive in space for 10 seconds I google it. What is a creature like this evening? How does this massive creature flying out to the remote asteroid field? I am your father My child You have to prove it's a retcon How does this ruin looks character? I've never seen anyone's looks characters. Yeah, I've never done that one Yeah, because it's like, oh, yeah, well back then they would have said these is like well apparently they didn't And So Why even bother? Who are these people? I've never met them. I would love to If there was a guy who made the video because youtube 9 youtube's 80s or whatever the hell was up then We we made cover that video on e-fab. You don't be like, let's see the problems with the ot Didn't remarkable republican have issues with the ot. That's what his video was Yeah This is the thing too many gay butlers. Well, and Leia is only best friend hot, you know a fair point a fair point indeed So Oh Luke looks like a lesbian But this is a thing like if just because those arguments are made doesn't then mean uh-huh We've got people making it for the ot and tlj. It's it's just the same really like no That's not how it works. Just because there's always going to be somebody You don't like check out these arguments You look hard enough and you'll find people who hate anything for the weirdest reasons you could imagine I My child a massive red. They ruined them. They ruined luke's character and vader's character. We ruined vader's character, too How do they ruin vader's character? Does he ruin his character because he has a son? People watch this video and change their minds in the last Jedi after he deliberately we haven't gone The ot in our own arguments only full minutes, which is at this point. What is that like 10% less than 10%? I'm sure he's the arguments are coming. Okay. Stay sure. Stay faithful Still with me If you're not convinced here's some examples beginning with The force began as a vague metaphor for religion and kept changing form right up until the cameras began rolling If you list every ability seen in a new hope, they don't exactly make the most sense together Why Why How don't they make sense together just because it may have changed in production up to the point where they start filming It doesn't matter what it might have been. It matters what it is Yeah, because every single fiction of every single kind that was ever made would have had plans before being made Right like the things change. I'm okay with that But as it stands what doesn't make sense. I suppose would be the question The empire strikes back expanded those abilities with luke outright using telekinesis gaining superhuman agility and seeing through time Well telekinesis was already used superhuman agility. Um, no Well, he he jumped and forward rolled. I don't know that's normally he did Is it possible? Is it possible to do a front flip? I wonder. Oh, I I've only heard stories Well, what I'll say is that uh with the force you can definitely like Fuck it. I'll cite TLJ you can you could pull you theoretically if you're in space you could pull yourself into a ship That's really like and so if I extend that could you theoretically force push down as you jump and jump really high And I think I think that is an established power, right? Would that count as increased agility or would that just be using the force? Just be using the force. Yeah, um, but maybe I'm trying to think of like the the mainline films. Is there any evidence that force will Jedi have increased agility? Or they just they just train. I mean that depends on if you use the infinite stana machi or stamina in uh in uh battlefront 2 I certainly imagine that if you are a Jedi and you're supposed to be a A monk like protector Of goodness and all that you know all that stuff Having a lot of agility would be good. Oh sure. You know, I don't know that it's like super agility He also said telekinesis as if it wasn't in a new hope though because he said like they were developed He's like he has telekinesis like oh, yeah, but they already had that Like watching vader choke someone from a distance isn't a specific power like you could only do force Closing your windpipe I know i'm saying this when in like wikipedia or games force choke will be like a specific ability But you know that what that is is like you're Clamping down up to distance Yeah Um Okay, right using telekinesis gaining superhuman agility and seeing through time By the end of return of the jedi the emperor is shooting lightning out of his hands. Doesn't matter Well again, yeah, that doesn't contradict anything and he's he's super powerful like the I don't know the like maybe vader could do it But the idea that if he fires electric from his wide-up suit, it could be a bad day for him Especially considering that's how he dies But you know what I mean late When someone's writing a book, I mean a lot of that is Literally making it up as you go. That's how you do stories. You make it up as you go Then you go back and fix things and edit and all that but Making it up as you go That's it's not a problem if you're writing a story Especially if you're trying to be new and original or is that bad now? I don't know. I'm getting getting a little bit of a mixed message here in chat We got force augmentation example being when kenobi ripped grievous his chest open Wasn't that just normal? Yeah, isn't that something normal people do? I mean, well it was like metal Had even weakened prior to that or how well connected was this metal I didn't know that it was like super strong the the metal I'd have to re want I haven't seen the prequels since I just remember being like came out. There's like a slip between anything if he's pulling while you that's just an application of force pull I suppose you could argue that yeah Because it's like you're you're physically assisting your force pull And we've got a loop jumped out of the carbonite freeze super fast again, wouldn't I just come under force before like the obi one does that with uh I want to say an attack of the clones Um mace window jumping off the platform after getting hit with a flamethrower from jango Like nobody should survive that level of a fall But I assume with the force like say before you land you force push down You can do like a little bump up I suppose that's probably something you could do in the same way that when you jump you can push down I thought that's what luke did I sound these I seem just like applications to me I didn't realize that these are actually considered to be like super force legs or something yeah None of this seems and These just seem like applications of pulling pushing and pulling which are very broadly defined But that's fine being superhuman agility and seeing through time By the end of return of the jedi the emperor is shooting lightning out of his hands It's fair to say that this was being made up as they went only the emperor You can make it up as you go along as long as you don't break anything you've already set up Yeah, that's fine I know he's trying to why he's doing it doing this. It's just to Defend the luke apparition at the end and leia's flying through space thing But he fundamentally doesn't understand what the actual issues with those things are that would be what the second shoe drops. Yeah, like And that doesn't diminish the force in any way It was an incredibly flexible plot device something to move the story and characters along that could take whatever form the writers Also, it's a little bit disingenuous to cite these things happening in empire strikes back when he's literally on daggaba to learn how to do these things Yeah, the these things are in they're not just things that you have as in your repertoire of a force user and they're not random or at least um They may have been you could argue that they're thrown in randomly to match things in the plot But they also have to satisfy a couple of other boxes before they could be put in And that's kind of where we're at with the sequel trilogy whenever they introduce For example, we don't know if this is true yet, but force heal like Do you know what you'll do if you introduce force heal? Like can you just say that that's a thing they can do with the mainline movies? Like we're gonna have some questions for other portions of the films The first one I have on top of my head is just obi-wan and quigod like Quigod's dying and he's like if only you'd learned force heal Yeah, it's like it just seems to me that this would be almost at the top of the list for Something that everybody would learn all the time. It was like how could you abuse force heal? Could anakin have foreseeably they just like put his like severed arm back to the stump and like force healed it back He could have just healed healed a Padme when she had her kid Yeah, why didn't they do that? Can you regenerate limbs with force heal? Yeah, I just you have to just attach him together as long as you have all the parts I want to see this I don't know. Yeah, like this is the thing And if someone's like, what about introducing force heal? We'd be like, ah, you do that You have to make it incredibly high level or just don't Could force heal live like Turn palpatine skin back to normal No, that was his true skin. He was wearing a blanket that looks That looked creamy. She's he found those ads online that say 900 years old, but looks 40 Fair to say that this was being made up as they went along and that doesn't diminish the force in any way It was an incredibly flexible plot device something to move the story and characters along that could take whatever form the writers needed This is a good illustration of how the force was used It doesn't matter that luke can jump 20 feet in the air that ability is never important to the story What it's literally very important. It saves him from being carbonite frozen That he could have just jumped out would have changed the entire movie Yeah, I mean, maybe it would have just been replaced with him jumping out less I guess uh spectacularly Like he lifted as he jumped he lifted himself up and landed on the platform right across from vader or But at that point it's just details of the Accomplishing the same thing as long as he gets out of the carbonite chamber essentially Is what's important And again, couldn't you just do this jump by pushing pushing force pushing down while jumping? yeah You could even do like the whole down force push from like the force unleashed That's a really big force push Also someone referenced the super fast run from van de menis. I do think that's retarded by the way Yeah Yeah, but I would be I think they would be abusing the fuck out of that I don't know the I need like george lucas's car would show that because I've heard from different people That that's not supposed to be force fast run or anything. That's just a bad edit But george, please tell us what was it a bad idea or did they did you just unlock force Force sprint and if it was a bad edit, then why didn't you change it? Like you changed the hundred thousand other things when you remade the movies for blu-ray But knowing how literally fans take things I assume there's a 20 page wokipedia article about jedi leg ligaments The ability only has meaning in the context of luke's character arc I mean fans will do everything they can to repair, right? the one that I've cited in Part three of the tfa series once that eventually comes out Is the jj brims? I think I've said this one you've had before but I just find it fascinating jj Admitted that it was dumb that you could see the lasers from where the planet that han solo and fin Are on in tfa is stupid You could see the laser in the explosion of the planets because that means they'd be really close Um And he said that that that was like who the fuck is like science is gay that sort of thing like it's it's it's It's cool But then on the wikipedia you'll find people being like it's made of special light that can travel across like solar systems and you're like what? What but fans are like no it makes sense shut up It totally does. This is why they come up with reasons and you know, I'm not going to disparage them for that They really want their content to all light up like well, yeah They want this idea of a world that's you know, sensical to exist despite The nonsense that happens in the films it I mean they're fans generally. It's weird Sure, everyone has their own individual idea of what the star wars universe is but it just so happens that a very very large segment of all of them can come together and Come up with these ideas and these thoughts that you know rectify all these potential issues I mean, besides We have we don't even have a full understanding of our own world People based on their knowledge and their Experiences think that the real world is all kinds of different ways and yet we're all able to exist in it So it's it's not like it's an unreasonable concept And just for clarification. Yeah, there's gonna be some weird fans who would put in some weird Like articles in there probably as well, right? Like I'm not saying that because a couple people chat were like You get crazy fads doing it too. It's like no, no, of course Like I'm just saying that someone who's trying to be like Jedi have increased agility This explains a lot of the things that happen in the movie that seem weird. They'd be like, oh, well They're just trying to fix it up Important to the story but knowing how literally fans take things I assume there's a 20 page wukapedia article about Jedi leg ligaments The ability only has meaning in the context of Luke's character arc He wanted to go off on an adventure and join his friends and fighting the empire He realized that goal and became the leader of the rebellion and believed that becoming a jedi would make him an even more powerful warrior I'm looking for a great warrior He barely knew anything about the force and fundamentally misunderstood what being a jedi was about Adventure Hey jedi craves not these things You weapons You will not need them I'm just I'm like I'm okay with all of this so far. Yeah, sounds good He struggled through a series of failures and was just beginning to make progress when he sensed his friends were in trouble He arrogantly believed that he was powerful enough to handle the trap set for him and left against Yoda's warnings I don't know if I'd call it arrogance. He he expressly Shares that he just he wants to save his friends Even ask Yoda if they'll die without him and Yoda says it's unclear Yeah, I mean if if anything, that's kind of selfless Yeah, I like the idea that he's immune to the trap that Vader will set. I don't know that yoda that luke feels that way He's just desperate to help people Um, I'm trying to think of like specific dialogue Doesn't it he just says like they're my friends. I've got to help them. That's one of the lines Like he sees it as that trumps anything like even his guaranteed loss, which again quite the hero Mm-hmm And in the ensuing fight we see that luke is powerful performing superhuman feats of strength Even Vader is impressed with his abilities most impressive But as the fight goes on luke realizes that he's completely outmatched The force is much bigger than he knew and his abilities amounted to nothing This moment was just a stepping stone on the way to this moment It doesn't mean it's not important you ever made sense. Yeah It was important If it wasn't important then he would have stayed and got frozen in carbonite and then everything changes Yeah, everything And they could have demonstrated luke's power any number of ways Jumping seems like it was just an arbitrary match for the layout of the freezing arbitrary The whole plan was to lure him in there so that he could be frozen and taken to the emperor I think he's trying to say that this is one of what could have been many different powers provided to him by the plot in order to escape this moment Um by like force related I guess but it's I still don't know that I would refer to that as arbitrary like This power works with what we understand And it does function as a way to escape this particular moment Like I'm trying to I guess he could have like force telekinesis moved something into the switch that vader had pulled down To pull it back up and then as vader tries to put it back down again He manages to get back out. Like that's another way to have done it. I suppose but uh, this was still Not something I would refer to as arbitrary. That's all If the room had been different, maybe luke could have used super speed instead super speeds dumb Yeah, sorry. It's stupid. I mean the super speed could have been used someone in the chat even mentioned like They could have been used so that obi one could have caught up with darth mal way faster. Yeah The literal form dude, there's so many things kiari mundi when he's killed on the bridge. If only he just super speeded away Uh, if only ala sakura super speeded away If only any of the four jedi masters that went to go arrest palpatine's super speeded away It's like, let's not it's seriously from the writer's room if someone said it I'd be like to stop to stop put onto it super speed The force took didn't matter It was always working in the service of the story and the characters But after years of worshiping these movies fans demand that it always works in service of the story and the characters Yeah, but it still has to make sense Like I agree with him, but you can't just have it be anything Like again, so let's say they're picking from a roster of abilities for luke to be able to escape that situation with vader And one of the writers says how about force invisibility bubble? And everyone's looking around like invisibility Towards that means like he goes invisible and then he climbs out of the thing vader can't find him And then the second he attacks vader the bubble like goes away He'll be like so all jedi can become invisible is what you're saying then he's like, yeah And that's like you could think about it for a while and be like I don't know if that's gonna cause problems for us in the future in terms of like Good guys or bad guys because we don't just sneak up on each other But that's like put that in the maybe pile we have to think about it and then some other guy goes What about forcing invincibility? Like forcing what does that mean like they just become invincible and they like They're like shiny for the time that they do it and they can only do it for a limited amount of time And I think everyone here would be like no Just no I can't do that So why not it's like That's gonna cause shit tons of problems Like how are we gonna be able to do that? But then you can have this guy being like well, it doesn't really matter as long as it serves the story of the characters It'd be like no, of course it matters if you Are using a tool To allow your characters to perform certain actions You can't just have them be arbitrary because then their choices will dramatically change Like Luke would be like You know that can be done in the world Like Yoda's like you can't go and help your friends. You'll be killed. Then he goes. I have force invincibility. I'll be fine like I guess he's right. This is the this is the force version of the hyper speed jump Yeah, because world rules come in all shapes and sizes Uh, we need them to make sense otherwise the stakes or what like sacrifice characters make start to become really embarrassing Like I said, you can retroactively destroy things like um Like Obi-Wan's fight with Darth Maul like the more the more you force powers you add the more we're like wait Why didn't they use that that fight? It's like Um, but it looks like we finally get into the tlj After years of worshiping these movies fans demand that it work the other way around The force is super important and your story and characters had better work in the service of it And that means locking everything to only what was seen in the original I wouldn't call it working in the serve the service of the force. Just work within its rules. That's all Yeah, I'm sorry. This screen grab of kylo is so embarrassing This is this is the villain This is the does a pathetic villain And that means locking everything to only what was seen in the originals with no more room for imagination or growth So he's just expressed earlier that a force telekinesis was like um a development But that's not being that's being locked down by a new hope still So like what we talk about is how you can try and um expand or extend What we already know and use it in different ways Um, that that's that's where the creative part comes in. It's tough. I don't disagree with that to try and um Create some some kind of new scenarios or new abilities or new ways to explore a jedi's power Without creating brand new abilities that essentially like just exchanging them for different superheroes from different like comic books and stuff Like why why can't they do four stretchy hand and they can stretch their arms around corners and stuff I don't know why is that and and you'll get some people who are honestly like well, it's it's creating something new It's being risky. It's being bold. It's creating something new with the force. You'd be like, yeah, but that's stupid Yeah, the force isn't omnipotence Just like um This is uh ignoring someone pointed out in the chat that not many people had that big of an issue with kylo Freezing a laser bolt. No in mid air. Yeah, which was which was new. It was really flashy But it was it's an extension right you should you could probably hold energy in place with The force if it's telekinesis it just requires a lot of focus And what I got from that moment was holy shit. This guy knows his stuff If he's able to do that And then that's contradictory later when it turns out he's a pussy Embarrassing And besides this is I mean vader stops laser bolts and yeah, the empire strikes back. It's not as flashily done Is this what I mean like this you would just watch the films and write down everything you know about the force and be like What can we do with this? How can we expand it? How can we play with it? Instead of deciding, you know what? Can we just do anything? Fuck it. Like no, maybe no Let's not just throw it out In the service of it and that means locking everything to only what was seen in the originals with no more room for Imagination or growth. That's not how the force works The 900 year old puppet can come back as a blue ghost, but shooting a lightning bolt is blasphemy Yes, yes Different things those are two in how stupid are you that you think that these of course I like see the difference He's highlighted it to make you seem unreasonable Because if you have zero context of Star Wars that would seem unreasonable It's like why is a blue ghost puppet? Okay, but a flash of lightning isn't like well because there's a whole set of fucking rules for this universe You can't establish a magic system in anything and then break the rules because then you got to ask well Why didn't force yoda or force ghost yoda? Fire a lightning bolt down at the satellite for the shield generator in episode six and help the rebels out Didn't we all just like sitting with his popcorn? Yeah, did we all just write that and he said, uh, I don't know that we like is it because he could only do it on this Planet that he was like, yeah, there you go that that could be why Yeah, he didn't have an answer for that the idea that you have circle. I have to ask the same question again Oh my god This whole scene in the last Jedi is just it's so awful You've got the so the concept that we've established that a force user can reappear to somebody in some ethereal form To offer advice and wisdom and teaching from beyond the grave That's like, okay, that's not that's not really that crazy Now, you know, that's that's not an unreasonable thing Especially when you set limits on it and we don't even know if when somebody at least before the last Jedi It was never even established if that person was really there in any Corporal sense or if any other people could interact with it or see it or if it was just a figment of the In the mind of whoever was you know being appeared to we didn't know that it wasn't for certain But this scene not only Tells us that these guys can you know, they can come back and talk to people and offer advice But they can physically manipulate the world around them to the point that they can call in lightning strikes to destroy Things and now and they could hit people they could physically Strike people and cause them pain Which is why I joke sometimes and so now in star wars. What's the advantage of being alive? But no, it's all silly You know, it's it's also every it's all equally silly force pole. It is force pole is just as silly and stupid as Being able to destroy entire fleets with force lightning. It's all just they're all in equal playing fields I can't believe this was supposed to be a good video if this convinced people What? All right, I genuinely know that's what I've been thus far. I was told. Okay. Like I'm not Say this true. That's where I was told. I imagine that the people that's convinced Were already probably TLJ fans to some extent. You remember rags like the stream we did it How many people asked about this video? This was the this is the one that like I think I want to say like at least six super chats were like you need to cover this video Well so far it ain't looking too good Well, yeah, this is only now a fifth of the video ish. So Let's say I guess 100 year old puppet can come back as a blue ghost But shooting a lightning bolt is blasphemy when obi-wan said if you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine I'd like to think he meant he could do a little more than just hang around and shoot the shit The mother he's dead and he's still able to observe the universe He literally says in episode five, he like holds up his hands and says I can't interfere if you fight vader Oh my god, you're stupid. I don't know the like he's understanding it He's like When you say you can become more powerful you can possibly imagine I didn't think that you meant you'd die and be able to stay around It's like that sounds pretty impressive to me And also this is power in purely a Um utility sense sure of oh, I can cast lightning now It's like what happened to be kill vader. Well now you're fucked I was going to say like Imagine that you change the lines like if you strike me down I shall be able to cast lightning bolts at you from death They don't be like what holy shit is like so if you kill me, can I do that to you? I guess I'll put you in a fucking cryo tube to prevent you from Ever dying. Oh my god. Yeah now never leave space ever again I don't just have that line of logic Can you imagine that that conversation vader would have to have with palpatine palpatine's like why once you go back Into the forest moon of end door and vaders like I'm afraid That my old mentor is going to hit me with lightning And palpatine's like what the fuck are you talking about? Oh, yeah, that's right. This is an established thing now. Fuck the second they kill over one vader's just us sweating It's a little like blue beads of water coming around his helmet Because if if you kept the force ghost thing as it was it didn't cause any issues Not really know to whom they can appear to it seems as if they've only before this they only could appear to people with a special connection or Knowledge of it or some level of understanding of the force or these people in particular They couldn't just go out and do whatever they wanted, you know, they were working within confines so This it just changes everything and it would retroactively fuck shit up I'd like to think he meant he could do a little more than just hang around and shoot the shit It was clear that he was holding back his full potential If you choose to face vader why what what do you mean? Why would that be the case? Yeah, so he voluntarily decided that during the entire two and a half episodes where he was dead There was never a point where he could use physical objects or Lightning or some incredible power to save the lives of a hero or someone that he cared about And he just showed he could have but he just chose not to Not that this is this so many like so two two more arguments for you When emperor is fucking zapping luke and vader slowly getting up from having been defeated Do you think obi? What was just said they'd be like damn we lost It's like you gotta help you asshole and then secondly If you really do become so powerful that you can just Go ghost form and just just free cam around everywhere No longer age and zap lightning at people at will wouldn't the emperor want to die? Exactly. That's what I'm saying in this universe. Why be alive? If they're able to do that then why didn't obi won in yoda and how we can throw anakin in on there too They go up to snook and they hit him with lightning and they're like lol Well, that was one of the potential leaks right was I don't know if they've canned this now But at one point you're supposed to be ray was nearly defeated, but then the ghosts of luke and leo were supposed to help you defeat palpatine Imagine how that would be And it's not like being able to come back to appear to people to offer them guidance and You know wisdom like that is a very powerful thing in and of itself Don't underestimate its ability to Give people wisdom and knowledge and to influence them But I mean that in and of itself is already really powerful, especially if you don't have a body anymore. You're probably just going to be around for Whatever amount of time but that's I mean don't don't discount that as something that isn't already incredibly powerful I love that each is casually just like yeah obi one could have helped him just didn't it's like oh Okay All those times, okay, and he was holding back his full potential If you choose to face fader, you will do it alone I cannot interfere So why is a lightning bolt out of the question for all the reasons we just said because are you fucking insane? Why is an actual being able to actually summon a physical lightning bolt to kill and destroy things? out of the question Like I said wow all of the really it was it was raining at the end of episode three And there was a lot of dead jedi I imagine there'd be quite a few that would be like What if we summon one of the lightning bolts that's already in the air and just hit palpateen while he's walking into the building well One thing they would have as a counter to that Theoretically is that uh force ghosts weren't a thing until after the end of revenge of the south if you remember Yoda says to obi one that like he's found a way to commune beyond death or whatever like that that was when apparently force ghosts were uh first introduced according to the canon of the films And also when we talk about obi It's odd that he would say what he did and then play obi one explicitly saying I cannot interfere It's like he's talking about the deleted scenery says I cannot interfere which means by the way that I don't want to I I can I don't want to it means no it means I cannot No, no, no he means morally like he can't do it on a moral level But then he wouldn't he say I won't do it. No rags What the fuck is wrong with you stop using your brain rags It's like if someone says all right do a thing and you say I can't It implies that you you actually cannot do it. It's not possible If you said I won't you're like, yeah, I could but I will see that was cut Luke responds can't or won't obi one then he goes won't I won't I could I could save your life and all that stuff But I just want I don't like that you're walking off without my permission bastard. Yeah, I I wonder if you just stay here with yoda He needs company. He's an old man. You know how they get Yeah, he's it it makes sense Just because we haven't seen it before People hated leia pulling herself through zero gravity, which isn't even a new ability just an old one in a new con No, okay. No, it's not like We have to damn it It's not that you can pull yourself through zero g with the force because theoretically speaking that that would be an extension Of if you cannot it's this it works the same in real life if you try and push a wall That's like huge. You only end up pushing yourself backwards, right? Like if you if you're not planted to the ground Um in the same way that if you telekinesis force push an object That's too big to actually move you should theoretically push yourself backward Um, I'm okay with that The problem with leia is that she manages to force pull herself in from zero g at least that's how I feel Are you guys are bored with that or no? Yep Mr. Rags Huh The the the leia force into the um Uh Space yeah, like is it a problem that she can force pull herself from zero g is that a problem No, I if anything I'd probably make it easier Okay, so what is the problem with the leia scene? The problem with the leia scene isn't that she can do it It's that she all of a sudden does it with no training or guidance Which has been floating out there seemingly dead for like at least a minute or so Yeah, now if if she right as the explosion happened she did something or she Do you some power to protect herself or she frost on it? Yeah, but when you have frost on your skin in space like man, that's so far. That's so far. It's gone. Like that's what I mean but I'm I'm not against the idea of being able to like having a Having kind of a tier of specialized Forcibilities that take training and concentration and sagacity and time to learn But just being able to pull the shit out of your ass whenever you need it Really Really Creates a rocky foundation for the force Yeah It says something that the force unleashed and had a character fly out into space And he literally died and they had to reconstruct his body For like months afterward for him to come back. It's threefold One being that we don't believe that she could do this like her She she we don't have any reason to believe this is something that she could do That's the least of the three problems from my perspective the second most significant Uh, actually no, that's that's number two the least most the least significant But still the one that I know a lot of people feel is that it looked retarded like It was so it made people laugh like I don't know how else to explain that one beyond like a subjective level It's just that it looked really funny Um second being that it doesn't seem like something that she could do but thirdly being that she should just be dead in like so many different ways the um The clip that I had from that like astronaut or whatever who said that You'd be like an ice block on one side and then like a fucking scorched skin Earth on the other And the fact that she had frost on it you can only survive for I think between one and two minutes Um, and she was out there for a while Like it's just the whole audience was like, oh, she's dead now and then like she's not Not only is she not she was conscious enough to pull herself in wasn't like she was rescued There's a lot of problems with that scene the fact that she pulls herself in zero g mechanically isn't the problem like Specifically and I just I don't know like I don't know if he's gonna address all of the issues But like why would you go for the one that's the weakest? I find that they do that a lot People hated Leia pulling herself through zero gravity, which isn't even a new ability just an old one in a new context And yes, you can survive in space for uh, oh Okay Animal experiments and human accidents have shown that people can likely survive exposure to vacuum conditions for at least a couple of minutes There could be time for fellow crew members to rescue and repressurize you with a with a few ill effects Except that's not what happened. That's not what happened Research has found that chimpanzees could survive up to 3.5 minutes in near vacuum conditions with no apparent cognitive Not a cheap Yeah, I'm wondering what what being an old woman has to do with all of that Are you are you saying that carry fishers a chimp? sexist I want to highlight that someone did this on twitter a couple weeks ago Maybe a week ago. Uh, they cited an article that proved that she could have survived I literally clicked it and read it and it said that uh after a minute you'd go unconscious She's unconscious at the beginning because she's blasted out of the the thing She's like unconscious and then she wakes up That's not possible according to these articles. You cannot regain consciousness. Once you're unconscious in space That's not a thing. I'm gonna look this up the scientific american thing And someone's saying here don't forget leia is flying at around light speed in that scene Uh Don't recall that. No, no, so that that's actually a fourth issue. So she's blown out of the ship at an angle And um, obviously while the ship is moving which pushes let's say the movie the ship's moving by five She's blown out while moving at five pushing it to like a seven maybe And in a different direction And she's unconscious for like a minute. Do you understand how fucking far away she would be from the ship at that point? so she's blown So if they're on the bridge the bridge is in front, right? Also a lot of people are saying vacuum is not space Uh space they're different yet because in space there's radiation through and there's the light there's uh exposed So so I found the article that he cited and he leaves out some things that might What a shock everyone So one of the things is uh It it specifies vacuum conditions not like the actual vacuum of space but conditions and we can make vacuum conditions on earth It just won't have all the you know the the cold the Heat from the sun or the radiation all that shit. So they're replicating these conditions first off in second There's a line right here That says not that you would remain conscious long enough to rescue yourself Which is the second paragraph of the article. Yeah, he's left these pots out pretty and uh Teal dear made a whole video about this a 42 minute video Surviving space Leia needed more than the force and the thumbnail just says why Leia is dead Why late? This is no way. Yeah, yeah, you're fucking dead He's also like I don't like this kind of like it's I would almost call this a cheap shot So he's like this none of this fucking matters guys It's all nonsense even though she would have survived moving on and it's like no, she wouldn't have No, she wouldn't have okay No, she wouldn't have so here's another paragraph. This is like the Sixth paragraph on the article Water and dissolved gas and the blood forms bubbles in the major veins would travel throughout the circulatory system and block blood flow After about one minute circulation stops The lack of oxygen to the brain renders or effectively stops the lack of oxygen to the brain renders you unconscious in less than 15 seconds And eventually kills you. This is from the article. He's citing. Yes. This is from the scientific american Oh, no, that's way worse than what you showed on the screen Let me just reread this sentence again The lack of oxygen to the brain renders you unconscious in less than 15 seconds eventually killing you I wonder why he didn't record this part. I like how it specifies that people might be able to save you She saves herself Like come on Yeah, yeah other people Maybe in a vacuum might be able to save you But but also this is researchers found that chimpanzees could survive for that's in near vacuum conditions Is like I wonder what those near vacuum conditions are also as was pointed out Vacuum and space are two different things space has got a lot more going on in it. She's so fucking dead Anyway, I don't know I feel like this isn't something that I would do with a video of mine because I would kind of feel like I'm being dishonest But, you know, I feel like it was us. We'd probably go on a tangent into the article Right, we'd be like look at that many ways that you would die. It's not even a question Or gravity which isn't even a new ability just an old one in a new context And yes, you can survive in space for a minute or two. I googled it It's an awfully weird time to suddenly Oh my god, we already said this was this was an atmosphere this they're inside a creature The notches on the naked area of space like this. I just love the same I love that he says I googled it and it's like, yeah, well I did too and I uh, I saw some lines You decided not to leave in yeah, we googled what you googled in it. Yeah, we actually Seems like you left some things out Yes, you can survive in space for a minute or two. I googled it It's an awfully weird time to suddenly start caring about realism, isn't it? I hate that argument so much Oh, yeah, well, you didn't care about it in this other thing What you can you complain if she died in space? She's not dying in space when you got a guy who shoots lightning out of his hands. Oh, you care about realism all of a sudden It's like no, we never really It's not it's not what that's not what's happening. It's really realism. That was it depends on our suspension of disbelief There are rules sometimes this universe shares the rules that we have sometimes it says Oh, so by the way, this space was a can shoot lightning It's like you're willed but they can do that too. I mean like, okay Also, they have telekinesis. Okay, as long as you make that clear. It's fine But just because you can do that doesn't that mean nothing makes any sense anymore. That's not how this works For a minute or two, I googled it. It's an awfully weird time to suddenly start caring about realism Someone said you should put that into g'dalb the I googled it part No, I will I should have been Should have been doing g'dalb quotes actually what else has he said Anybody in chat. What does he say this g'dalb worthy? It's over Anakin. I googled it What do you say a couple minutes for It's in space I'm an idiot. I googled it Size doesn't matter. I googled it I was surprised he got that answer from google Everybody just wants me to do I googled it. All right. It's there. It's there It Luke's projection is right in line with how the force was used in the originals His greatest achievement wasn't blowing up the death star. He was resisting the dark side and refusing to whoa Slow down slow down. So he doesn't mean mechanically. He means like storytelling wise I guess because he said like it's in line with this in terms of development like character development Yeah blowing up the death star was like, yeah, it's obviously extremely important But in terms of like how it changed his character Like it didn't it wasn't as important as him making conscious decisions to Do something to resist an urge to um You know to fight off his emotions to but like it's not quite the same for skype calls There's nothing in the ot that just stretches out to that right There's nothing that we don't we don't watch anything happen in the ot that makes us go Oh for skype calls. That should be a thing Or or is there my missing? Other than the force ghost that's probably the closest thing you could possibly Grasspeed but I don't really think that's the same thing I don't really have an issue with the concept of the force skype calls just more like what it was used for Yeah, I was gonna say that I actually don't mind it It's just that I don't think there's any precedent for it, which again not a problem as long as you don't contradict anything Yeah, it'd be one of those things to me that I'd kind of put up there on more top tier sorts of abilities Like sure if if you if you if you put this idea and this isn't an unreasonable thing at all this happens in all kinds of fictions where you have wizards and monks and Orlocks and witches and all kinds of different things where when you start out you could only do so much But as you learn and as you become more and more powerful You could do more and more powerful things that people with less experience just can't do like yeah Let's hold on to that concept. That's a really useful one. It allows characters to grow in mechanical ways I would put force skype calls, you know kind of up there I just wanted to clarify So I think he's talking strictly on story that what he what he did on crate Is representative of what he did in the ot because we've heard this argument before but let's let's let him do it Time to suddenly start caring about realism. Isn't it? I'm sorry. Could you pause it real quick? Yes, I know I know super chats and we're leaving them to the end, but I need to read this one out because it You were the chosen one. I googled it bill boby won canoggans Bill boby won canoggans Yeah, for anybody who's curious where uh, we're planning to go for the full 11 55 today. We've got Two to three videos depending on how we do loads of memes uh non copyrighted meme videos and super chats We've we've got a lot to do So buckle in Luke's projection is right in line with how the force was used in the originals His greatest achievement wasn't blowing up the death star He was resisting the dark side and refusing to fight I guess it depends on your definition of achievement at that point Uh, so the projection aspect, but there's a physical So to say that the projection falls in line with him refusing to fight Is the the problem by the fact that he tried to kill his nephew Well, in in the sense You only thought about it. Well Well in the sense that projection is directly linked to that the issue that people have is That after all of the experiences that he has had Just because he's fighting someone doesn't mean he's killing them It's odd that this would be these are the same thing like he's I just thought it was interesting that he stated that uh the achievement of like Managing to resist the dark side is greater than having destroyed the death star in a new hope I find that I um I suppose from a character perspective, I would agree but like from the wider world Uh Because he didn't even kill the emperor The emperor is actually alive and well So um compare that to destroying this monstrous Space station that was threatening to kill everybody who rebates this world that was resisting the empire. I don't know I I will agree with him on a character level. I'm not sure I agree on like a world level in terms of what was luke's greatest achievement Because uh a new hopes finale that was a pretty fucking amazing achievement Was in the originals his greatest achievement wasn't blowing up the death star It was resisting the dark side and refusing to fight. That was the moment when he became a jedi I am a jedi Like my father before me. Well, it's time. He says he becomes a jedi Maybe I'll be a little more complicated to loot to mark hablebeard like that's not what a jedi does He doesn't give up Well, so it's just it's really strange that all this stuff happens and like luke's It just reminds me of how the the ending plan here like luke's plan is so Like weird the way that it works Like oh, I guess ray's just gonna open up the cave for him And I guess they know to leave the cave and that it's a distraction or why don't they think Everyone else thinks that luke is actually real and he's gonna be there to save him It was like a lot of stuff just happens to coincidentally happen for this Yeah, like a quote-unquote plan to come together. That's just insane if he's about to break down the crate scene for us I am More than willing to go over how much crate makes no sense at all We'll let him go first in case people have forgotten how stupid crate is from every character's perspective But we'll totally do it if if he wants to Because my god, I remember um I think I made this comment in the third part of my tlg critique But a lot of people were saying like um, oh, he hasn't covered crate yet as with my first two parts It's like crate is the good pot of the film and I remember being like what the fuck the good pot No I am a jedi Like my father before me He's seen on crate is that same idea on a larger scale with luke using everything you learned about the force to resort of I guess But it doesn't do it. That's the thing he He is directly doing things with the plan of action And in crate it's just a mess of what's actually happening I suppose we should probably just go over it now and then cite the individual parts that Contradict anything that he's running with but so first of all you have his knowledge that something's happening on crate That's like that's like luke's perspective on octu The everybody's getting chased to crate. I don't even remember if ray told him about crate or not But it doesn't really matter. We'll just let that go for now so He decides he's going to appear there Instead of go there himself, which by the way is gonna become a problem Um, eventually if you remember someone we covered on efat previously said he couldn't have used the ship on octu because it was waterlogged Um, apparently in the leaks ray is going to use that ship on octu. So That's gonna fuck everything up. You gotta be kidding me. I just think it's funny We already have instances of waterlogged x-wings being yeah, they was in a swab. Surely that's so um, yeah, we already have Anyway, so he gets there, uh, what is luke's plan right? We're luke skywalker. What is your plan? It's like I I can see that the empire well the the the first order about to assault all of my friends in the big cave Now I can also see that Luke's x-wing if she can get to octu anyway No, she when she gets to octu. She destroys her own ship She's in exile and then she decides she doesn't want to be in exile and uses his ship Why did she destroy her own ship because she's exiling herself? Well, if it makes total sense you just hate she exiles herself destroys her own ship And then decides to use the ship in the water. It's in the trailer She like arrives on octu in the in in a tie interceptor or something and she destroys it It's gonna be the second act low point. She's gonna decide she has to come back What I did he's not gonna dude Bring alcohol like I said when anyone goes to see this movie you need a drug God, I I'm gonna smoke my brains out before watching it if I ever watch it Um, so yeah, like I said, he comes in and he's like, all right. Ray is in the millennium falcon She's flying around she can be their escape now first problem You'll find Is that the hyperspace tracker is still active on any one of those star destroyers so they can't actually escape They do anyway, whatever So his plan is Ignoring that that they can get on the millennium falcon, but they need time So he's gonna walk out into the middle of the field and delay The first order from getting to them now if you guys remember The first order wouldn't have caught up to them like anyway Like they they get ahead into the millennium falcon and hyperspace out like well before kylo or his men even get to the Part where ray was opening up the stones So like I just don't I don't even know that luke actually successfully delayed them instead of just showing up to tell kylo Some shit, but let's just assume fine. He's he's doing it to delay He doesn't tell anyone this And he doesn't tell anybody that there's an actual exit. They just assume that they're like luke is here He must be here to give us a chance to escape And remember luke actually has a chance to tell them this he walks into the room to tell lair Like he has a conversation with it, but he doesn't tell her anything about how to escape or live It's like wow, you're uh You're really running on the fact that they're going to interpret your actions with a certain message I suppose then He he tells kylo that he's not there to save him Like doesn't doesn't kylo say something like uh, you're here to save my soul and he just goes no No Wow, like I I went to go save darth vader fucking darth vader, but you yeah, you kylo Oh, you're just you're just unreasonable. I could oh man Not you kylo darth vader. Yes But not you we just have to assume that luke knew that he had delayed him enough when he disappears The like he just disappeared like it seems like he just goes like well now's my time to disappear. Is like did he know I guess he did. Yeah, he lets kylo discover the illusion. Yeah I don't know like and then you have the whole like are inspired the universe like how what is the story here Like I want to really push this because I really hate the idea that him destroying the emperor and his team destroying The the second death star and freeing the world that story stays under the rug and disappears over 30 years But this story this is the one that inspires children all over the universe to stand up. It's like why what is it? What happened? How did that story get out? Who told who and didn't any stormtrooper tell anyone that it's like no He wasn't even there as a fucking illusion The illusion he just disappeared. What a fucking bitch. He didn't even show up in person This little guy's a fucking powered Yeah, so so I guess my position on all this it's just it's a disaster I have no idea what the hell they were trying to do and I have no idea what luke knew at what times and what decisions He was actually making Those people like to ignore all of it and just say don't you see luke defeated kylo with pacifism You know like what he What He inspired them I googled it He defeated luke with pacifism kylo wolf get it right or he did kylo right Yeah, let's all right now. Let's hear his take Like my father before me His scene on crate is that same idea on a larger scale with luke using everything he learned about the force to resolve the Situation peacefully the people saying he genuinely should have been there taking down ad at walkers like a badass or missing the point No, there's no he should have been there not we're not talking about he has to destroy the entire enemy army And be some crazy war hero, but he should have been there. We've heard this before Uh, I can't remember what video it was For the person who said like you should jump around destroying every 88 the counter we had because for some reason they create this False dichotomy or the other two options the one we presented that I think would have been way better Is he's actually there he's fired upon the smoke clears and all of the lasers are held in one position and he dissipates them Like pacifist or throws them back you could have him throw him back I don't know that it would be kind of cool to see him Do the whole like this doesn't bother me like it's almost like neo at that point But there's no reason why You can't have a whole bunch of different things happen You could even have him have a fake vision of himself just a trick though that the real one comes out You could use so many different things you could do. Why do you have to? Why do you have to have it be a ghost? That he projected is so strange Saying he genuinely should have been there taking down ad at walkers like a badass or missing the point Maybe what those people wanted to see even then I would prefer that Destructive power is a sith thing I like that that image of him just smiling at the dead body on the Oh It's zero or ten. There's no difference. There's no in between. It's either. Yeah, Luke's just an illusion He doesn't fucking do anything or Luke is basically like Darth Vader. Is he just slaughtering the enemy If you ever wanted to see a straw man, ladies and gentlemen, this is what you wanted What Jesus Christ? Fuck up that straw man. Okay Yeah, this is definitely what I'm all wanting I almost wanted like I want to see what it would have been like to watch rogue one with that scene at the end Luke is just slashing through all the rebels like why just grinning like an idiot. Who is this man? Uses the force from knowledge and defense Never attack, but they were basically soldiers and assassins in the so you get that when you defend It will involve a attack as in like if you engage in a battle to defend someone's life You're gonna have to throw what would be considered an attack at them Do you do you do you guys follow what I'm trying to say the whole idea that like Let's just say you have a baby who's just Gugu gagging on the floor. Sith goes to stab him. You were a Jedi Would you do you can defend the baby with with the with a riposte right or something? Does that just mean that you can't ever hurt anyone? Yeah, like why don't you just force push force push the sith away or force pull the baby towards you into your hands or Something or It's not all don't be there at all or kill everyone I don't know that we should take this to the point where we just go every jedi should just sit down and calm calm the fuck down There's a time for action Um, yeah, I don't know like I just uh, I don't think it means you can never attack a person The prequels send me to kill the emperor I'm sorry Well, hello, if you don't kill the emperor, he takes over the whole fucking universe. I don't know the The idea is like the way to do it is to let him be like oh This is a this is a war by the way, and it's he's a sith lord It's like don't tell me that jedi just don't kill sith anymore Like that's not a thing that they do he's highlighting obi one Going personally to execute the leader of an army to dissipate the cis and prevent the war from continuing This is apparently like an aggressive attack You know like not defense Okay, what about holdo then he uses grievous not the whole does a jedi but Yeah, you know same principle Holdo fucking did she attack people did that does that count or is it not? I don't know. This is weird to me like jedi and all why do they even have lightsabers? Exactly, what's the point is like the idea of I've got a I mean, I carry a gun. It's like I don't go out. I don't leave my house saying like man. I can't wait to shoot a bitch You know, it's like it's there if I need it just in case. Let's hope it doesn't ever come to that Let's hope I don't ever have to use it. But if I got it, then I got it This is this is gonna be a crazy reference, but do you remember a character advocating for how uh, Thanksgiving is like Not a good celebration in Buffy because of all the natives that died Yes, do you remember that she advocates for pacifism throughout like the whole episode against the The enemies that are like the ghosts of of the past Uh, people who were wronged the second they attack her she goes crazy and kills them She's like she in the end of the episode is like, oh Point being that uh, you may advocate for pacifism, but if someone tries to fucking kill you pacifism's a difficult way to disable them But if you're gonna be like well luke did at the end of crate it's like luke didn't do shit He delayed them for like a couple seconds with a ghost. I don't know I don't know just like citing the the obi one taking out grievous ending the separatist war. It's like look at him that that Mood a hungry asshole. I was like, what do you mean? It's just a good thing. Stop sort of like stop. He's doing to stop a war. They're in a war at that point. It's like Uh, you're already in the war now Lightsabers are meant only to defend you're an attacking lightsaber. Okay from sith. Yeah specifically And or laser blasts for basically soldiers and assassins in the prequels send me to kill the emperor Luke using See you realize he's surrounded by a bunch of battle droids with guns pointed at him and if he doesn't attack He's gonna die anywhere. All right. Yeah, that's kind of what I'm trying like Grievous is a bad bad man A lot of power and he's a general in this war that they're currently engaged with This is absolutely stupid. What he should have done We have to discuss his projected ghost vision of himself to grievous and then explain to grievous So what he's doing is a good thing. All right. Are you here to cure me? No Okay, then I I I want us to Agree to disagree on this whole thing. Okay. Are you like hiding somewhere like behind a barrel or something? He's got a little like a little laptop in the upstairs of this place where he's projecting Don't do it Ben are you on our wi-fi? How did you get the password? I'm sorry people are gonna be upset that rags called grievous a bad man. It's true. The bad man Do you know how much knowledge with it takes to keep a droid army running on wi-fi? I just want to see the prequel visions now where everybody talks to each other and just there's like, hey, you know what? All this death not with it Someone said pacifists like the people from Wakanda It's lucky Luke using knowledge instead of violence to win the fight is the most jedi thing in the series He didn't win the fight. There was no fight. They ran away barely You're still evil What do you mean? Yeah, the enemy suffered no casualties They resistance barely escaped with their survivors in their lives They barely escaped and if anything they escaped because of a bunch of coincidences happening They only survived because of the incredible incompetence of the first order. Oh no, the first order lost some tie fighters Um, I mean they have like thousands more, but uh, yeah, that that wasn't a win. That was we barely survived Holy s*** rags. You don't understand He didn't destroy the rebels hope so luke still wins Oh, yeah, I just what what a baffling Thing it must be to look at that crate stuff and go. Yeah, that was definitely a w for the resistance It's like I sit down set up a chess game for me and rags and the rags like I can't turn up and I'm like well I guess you won Curse you Next time Outplayed it ignited a controversy because it's not in the rule book Ryan johnson Why do you keep appealing to this and made the mistake of posting an excerpt that referenced contradicts the rule book It's dumb. Isn't this rule book from disney though? Like it didn't count because he's citing new canon to justify his canon ability and haters immediately descended on him because it wasn't canon Exactly What's the problem? That's how it works. There's a reason why gandalf can't just show up in fucking star wars We have rules there's restrictions You fucking moron I hate to break it to anyone but one fictional book of fake space facts Isn't any more or less real than another fictional book of fake space? Oh my god All right We do want to begin I'm just gonna begin by saying i'm so happy we're covering tonal dash Why are they saying equally true here? Who are you to tell who are you? He's well, he's appealing to the silliness again He's like, uh, dude, this book of facts is no more gay than this book of facts You're like, uh, if you don't have consistent rules then things get broken very easily Now there is a discussion to be had on what is canon and everyone can use different definitions The one I usually go with is whoever officially owns the ip and what they say is canon because other than that I don't know how to make it Consistent and fair and understandable like we all recognize that disney is the one who decides canon now That's the problem Like we wreck we can yes, we can all recognize what the problem is And then how many like didn't like people had a problem Well after frank herbert died and his son started writing dunes or something like that I heard a lot of the books weren't very good and people had some issues with them But it's like yeah, that's canon I've read all of frank herbert's a dune books and the first two of I think it's the name is brian herbert brian's books are not good They have a lot of issues with them. They really lose what made the core of dune in the first place Not that frank herbert's books were all great to begin with I really only consider the first dune to be the great one and everything else just kind of Loses me after that point, but brian's books were really bad so if If you have Like in a situation like that Just like with star wars people recognize that well, yeah, this is canon But again the problem is that those things are canon and they cause issues Do you think kanto bite will turn up in this video? I'm sure it will I'm curious But yeah, uh, it's interesting that he's like these are extensions of powers these powers come from these places This is you know Expansive creative blah blah blah and then he's like also by the way, whatever his canon doesn't matter like what? Oh well then What even is continuity without canon? He specs There was never any real definition of canon Things shifted in and out of it all the time and the sheer volume of extraneous books and games led to a convoluted Yeah, again, so you have to you have to come up with one that At least lines up with some level of like Reasonability like you don't just say anything with the name star wars on it is canon because of What disney had done? uh And so yeah, like the idea that there's something hugely contradicting in the disney sequel film to the eu Which i'm sure there's plenty of that disney have The actual authority to be like we've purchased this ip It is within our right to say that that is no longer canon, but this is and as a consumer of what is their content now They purchased it fair and square like what else can we do? If you want to say that things are only canon according to your personal preference, that's totally fine by me I just don't know that um We can have these conversations anymore if everybody's changing what they think is canon Does that make sense? Yeah, does that make sense? I just like how else can we do canon? I mean Yeah, it goes back to I think canon is one of those things especially when ip's change hands Ideally canon is great when a single entity or person Who has immense respect for the world that's being created? um is consistent and they devote time and effort to ensuring that it all works as it should But then you have like star wars Where canon is just it's just they're just playing fast and loose with the rules all the time and they're doing this and that and Oh all that stuff. It isn't canon anymore And all of this stuff that we're doing is now We recognize I mean, it's not controversial to say that we all know who You know it's making the canon and what the canon is the problem is that it is canon In that there are people making canon who just don't seem to Who are unworthy of it. Well, um an interesting uh comparison is that Ghostbusters 2016 and terminator 345 are all decanonized now Technically speaking. I think you could make the argument that terminator 345 is still canon They were just wiped out by the events of genesis The events of dark fate even though genesis wiped out terminate one and two So actually I think they do have to be decanonized. It can't make sense otherwise I can't remember if they've actually been on record saying that but is kind of where I'm coming from with this Um Most people will accept whatever the ip is saying Uh, which whoever currently owns is is canon is canon other than that You're gonna get some what I would call arbitrary rules or at least more arbitrary than whatever the ip holder says Because I don't think anyone's crying that ghostbusters 2016 is no longer canon I think I think that's pretty cool actually Unless you're a feminist But um to try and say that like oh canon's all wishy washy flippy flappy anyway So who cares like stop doing this stop appealing to like giving up to be like. Ah, well fuck it. It's like stop saying that Try a little harder. Come on Coding system to determine canonosity by ranking The only person whose opinion should matter on this is the creator of the series and george I don't read that stuff. I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that wheel There's a different wheel than my wills george lucas in starlog um I don't know what that's regarding because he was involved with the clone was right I guess he doesn't know about the eu books I mean, there's a lot of eu books. So I don't fault him for that. Yeah, there's a lot But I'm I'm almost certain george lucas cares about what is canon though Yeah, I'm maybe not anymore because you know, oh, I mean, I think I think he does George lucas didn't care for much of anything other than the films and the clone wars show right the emperor doesn't get cloned Luke doesn't get married And jar jar is the best star wars character. Well, that's canon. All right, son of a Well, he's right. Georgia is the best character. Yeah, we all we all recognize that. Yeah Not controversial to ensure that every new storyline is totally canon and that includes the last jedi So yes, everything in the film is totally canon. Yeah, that's the problem Yeah, we know that's the problem as we've said it's not that the problem The problem isn't that we don't accept it as canon. The problem is that it is canon and it's fucking nonsense Yeah, I was gonna say like it's if we didn't accept it as canon. We wouldn't care We'd just be like, well, it's not canon. So who gives a fuck the prop We're trying to explain why it sucks that this is canon I like that he's got like giddy yoda as like almost being like ha ha. It's kaha. It's all canon That's bad It's like, you know, we're laughing at this stuff now Like he's doing episode nine is something that we're gonna take seriously. Fuck no I can guarantee you episode nine will damage tlj. So it'll turn it from like this pile of sludge into like a rotting pile of sludge, I guess And it's gonna be funny Just I can't wait for the first e-fap we do covering a video essay that explains how episode nine ruined tlj like That'll be the day Canon and that includes the last jedi. So yes, everything in the film is totally canon And if you take issue with it, why is this bureaucratic system any less legitimate than what came before? Who's saying it's not canon as in like as a criticism of the film Um, wouldn't the whole point be that they're criticizing it because it's canon You know, I mean like you can't hold those two positions at the same time. Can you that it's non canon and it's stupid As in it doesn't make sense with the canon I mean people say that In the sense that I'm like, you know after after episode six, I just stop There's no more after that in my mind But like we know that it's like you can't just It's not a switch that you can just flick off. Do you just and you forget the sequel trilogy What I'm saying is Why would you have someone saying it doesn't make sense with canon? Also, it's not canon like you just be like well, then you just It not making sense of canon is fine because it's not canon, right? I mean if that's is is that the criteria here is that if it is Not if it doesn't I just figured that the point of this video was to try and explain how this You called it a guide to the last Jedi like why would you be addressing people who think it's a non canon? I really would Well, if you don't interpret it as a sequel Oh, yeah, that's right. It's only a sequel if you interpret it as a sequel Yeah Like I'll be the first to agree that this is some garbage canon, but with how I understand canon works My hands are tied. Yeah Again, it's not the the problem is that it is canon That's what the problem is I guess yeah, I guess my issue comes from him being like ha ha it's canon again like my initial reaction. Just like well, yeah Yeah, if we if that world was real If that was the real world that we lived in then there would be some issues that we would have to resolve here so that It's like, you know, you don't see us hunting down fan fictions videos or articles or books or Anything like going this this doesn't make sense with episode four because we're like We're going for what we're being told mainstream by the IP owners that this is canon And it's different to entertain the idea of like fan fictions and stuff and actual Stuff released by the owners Anyway, continue is this bureaucratic system any less legitimate than what came before If you need a committee to rubber stamp your fantasy adventure plot points for your consumption Maybe you're the one who doesn't understand what the force is about Hang the fuck on Can we hear that again? I want to make sure I heard him. Okay The storyline is totally canon and that includes the last jedi So yes, everything in the film is totally canon and if you take issue with it Why is this bureaucratic system any less legitimate than what came before? If you need a committee to rubber stamp your fantasy adventure plot points for your consumption Maybe you're the one who doesn't understand what the force is about So because you want to catalog and understand it you don't Understand it So because your desire to want to make sense of it means you don't understand it Yeah, and like we only consider canon What is quote unquote rubber stamped by a committee that in this case being disney? I suppose saying that this episode is canon Um, like I said my position is I don't know how I can make it meaningful for something to be canon outside of just myself If I don't appeal to a wider Uh standard like whoever owns the IP If we don't appeal to something like that then yeah canon is literally different for every single person And at that point, how do you have any conversations all I would like rags is like oh, I didn't really like general grievous And I like doesn't matter. He's not canon This is just uh, this seems to be just a restatement of kind of what happened before That he'd already said um I don't know why he's making this point the issue Yeah, uh, like why why can't I just say maybe you don't understand how the force works? Well, what a condescending thing to say anyway, I'd almost like Weirdly dirty you have not a force work Like okay, maybe you don't understand it. All right. You're taking a shot at the super fans earlier But all right. I mean, I don't we know you're a fan. That's what you said at the beginning of this, but it's just really It's odd way to go about it. Mm-hmm think about Fans hated the midichlorians because it made the force into something small and knowable If you've condensed the force into a book that could be sold by So not the only reason it turned it into a physical manifestation that could be measured inside of people You know like you were born and you're once you were born. It was basically genetic What I usually appeal to with that is the I can't remember if this was originally said by Plinkit or someone else But the whole um, you can literally test people for medichlorians and find out who the powerful jedi slash sith is in the senate I kind of like fucks with everything um, well, yeah, there's that meme going around about Anakin talking with macewindu About oh, yeah, um dooku told me that there was a powerful sith in the senate Right or in the in the senate is like all right. Let's just do medichlorian test on everybody and find out who it is and then credit rolls You know it It's just it If you're trying to go like well, although it says it's indicative of their potential I'd be like Still still maybe and this is the thing. I don't think medichlorians are anyone near as damaging as half the shit in the fucking prequels Um, it's just there's a couple of things that get really fucked up when you really think about it. Um But yeah, like he so he's saying that because the force was almost prescribed this like series of details and categorization And that's what fans had a problem with Trying to categorize the force is only going to have the same result or something like that And it's like no, you can flit in two different things, right? So the idea that someone can use force push that's cool with all of us Especially a jedi they push a chair over most if not all can do that Someone pushing a star destroyer into a sun with force push. We'd be like, um Now you've taken it a little bit too far because if you can do that what could be threatening to you ever You have to have limitations, right and he's like no no limitations will ruin it and it's like No, it actually makes the stakes much clearer as opposed to You could just like I said force invincibility. Why not? That's cool and new and interesting. Isn't that creative guys? What do you think creative? Yeah It's almost like just use the force use the real world of the force being able to It's not like wait like weightlifting in a way is like, yeah all the jet I can do the really basic stuff You could pick up boxes and things but like really really heavy stuff and that takes a lot of training and a lot of But like the mental version of that where it takes concentration And understanding and wisdom and you know all that stuff that goes into it So you could kind of scale it to something that's relatable Force into something small and knowable If you've condensed the force into a book that could be sold by kenner, haven't you done the same thing? No, I didn't here's another thing you can't do anymore Pretend for a second that you're seeing Darth Vader for the very first time. Okay. What is he? Is he even human? We find out that he used to be a jedi before turning evil Okay, how did he get in the suit? Oh, I caught his arms and legs off and left him to die in a river of lava Not mentioning that would have been strange We find out in the next Yeah No, the reason he doesn't mention it is because he doesn't want to tell Luke all the shit. He was deliberately hiding the truth. He hides a lot from Luke. That's part of the story That's something that he does. I mean, it's weird in the sense that he's It's not typically what you associate obi-wan with It's it seems strange that he wouldn't it's almost manipulative I mean it kind of is but for a good cause I'm trying to think of like what exactly his point there is like the There was mystery behind Vader and it was ruined by the prequels. Is that the point? I mean, that's just the nature of mystery to where the more you learn about something the less mystery there is Yeah, like but that's kind of inherent to the he must have loved force awakens then Mystery everywhere mysteries that went nowhere What do you guys prefer a mystery that gets answered eventually or a mystery that ever gets answered? Like where did basket art to get luke's lightsaber from? um a mystery that never I mean It honestly that depends On what it is that we're looking at If we take a dead space is a good example Uh, if you especially in like a horror kind of setting Learning everything that there is to learn about it can especially if that explanation is Not very good really take away from the horror aspect of it Turns out that the marker just feeds into a moon and it turns into a giant space squid yeah, the Like a a lack of knowing lack of knowledge, you know the mystery of the unknown can be terrifying And if you explain it in that way they could remove it, but when it comes to characters How did Darth Vader become this what happened to a normal person? That would change them into this kind of being yeah, I mean if it's told well like I would prefer that I mean it depends there's no reason why a character of Darth Vader is going to be worse because of explaining the mystery unless The explanation is done Nonsensically or if it does things like violate canon or doesn't follow the rules of the universe, you know that sort of thing And then I guess I'm trying to like So he's saying like I was no room for mystery anymore with these fans like I don't know man people love tfa Is when the mystery's got flattened that everyone got pissed. It wasn't the mystery's existing on on their own I was ready for I was ready to find out about snook ready to find out about that I'd like to say already find out about luke ready to find out about what happened in the span between these two episodes We got buckle And now it all came crashing down The legs off and left him to die in the river of lava Not mentioning that would have been strange We find out in the next film that he's luke's father which tells us more about luke than it does about vader We already knew that he was a good Jedi at one point He's still such a mystery at the end of the trilogy that just seeing his face felt like a giant revelation We didn't really need details on vader for the story that was being told I don't think anyone argued that you needed these details But uh, is anyone opposed to having them like I'd like them Do you want them done really badly? It's like don't really No, I would rather I'd rather them not done at all than badly But I'd rather have them done good But sure there are times where I would maybe advocate the like yeah I I personally don't need the backstory myself But that doesn't I don't think that means that like it's definitive, you know Every mystery for every person different people are gonna want to know different things The idea behind a mystery is that something did make sense to make the thing happen It's up to you to think about what it could be or do you want the answer And at risk of the answer being well written or poorly written And the mystery of what happened to him was a major component of his character It inspired people to continue wondering about him long after the films were over When the prequels explicitly showed how he turned a lot of people were disappointed that it didn't live up to their imagination A lot of people were disappointed though Yeah, a lot of people were totally all right with it Especially these days there's a shit ton of prequel fans that are very vocal these days saying that the prequels are strong and that um I remember the uh the criticisms that it ruined Vader the prequels Um, but a lot of the times you'll find a lot of people saying that now it really strengthens his history And I think there's enough of an argument to be made that Vader and Anakin are completely different characters So I don't I wasn't really bothered by how much of a bitch Anakin was for three movies I mean the the events he goes through in episode three are both enough to dramatically change a person, right? Uh And then the fact that he's locked into this suit Yeah, I just think that like the the difference between Anakin and darth vader It doesn't really ruin darth vader since they're practically different characters. Yeah, I can see that. Um And how much time passes between episode three and four Is it 19 years? Oh 19, okay Yeah, so you have all of that plus 19 years of him going through all that Yeah, not to mention the fact that He's now going to be perceived very differently from everybody and he's a part of an empire like What i'm advocating for here is the of course he's going to change people are going to be terrified of him from his suit alone So he's probably gonna he's not going to be anakin anymore Yeah, and all this stuff was set up really well so that the gap between Three and four is much more reasonable than the gap between six and seven Well, the what i've always advocated for with luke is that i need to see what changed him Yes, you can take a gap once i've seen what would have been the catalyst He can't show it to me in three flashbacks that change What the hell? Uh, we saw all of it for vader No, but not that he's making that argument. He's just saying that without mystery things go bad I suppose cool as explicitly showed how he turned a lot of people were disappointed that it didn't live up to their imaginations And that's a lesson that star wars fans can't seem to learn because after decades of getting books comics video I'm sorry. You just you just just declared that mystery is always better Yeah Definitely don't agree with that Definitely don't agree someone named rucka made that comic Rucka I just think in rucka rucka ali and it's I I kind of wondering this comic to see what's in there now Yo games and I assume pez dispensers with plot points etched into the pez. You know what's funny I would controversially back in the day say that I think jango is way better than boba And um, one of my reasoning part of my reasoning would be the the bounty hunter game Where I learned loads about his character and really enjoyed the story and how he got caught up with the empire Point being the someone could be like, don't you prefer that jango boba? It's totally mysterious. I feel like, uh Not really. I don't know. I like finding out about him So like just this idea that it's it's just definitive like Oh, you stupid fools always looking for the answers. It's like, oh Like there's no context where that's okay. Okay It's taken for granted that we'll get to know every last detail It's great that fans love this universe so much But the fixation on literal detail suffocates the larger methyl. You can't make this point while showing snook That's ridiculous. Yeah Yeah, that's kind of that's an at this point I would just be like so you just don't want to know anything just nothing makes any sense Everything's just mysterious and dark anything could happen Anything could just get pulled out of anyone's ass at any time for whatever reason as long as it serves something To do They know there are no rules. There is no explanation You know by creating rules you remove mystery, right? If you catch a person going like I need to know gredos history. Okay You need it. I'd be like, all right. Chill out I don't I don't know then someone goes. Yeah, I'd like to know snokes history I'd be like, well, yeah, that makes sense because he's like the only thing that connects an insanely important character Um, because I let you just have this guy be like, oh my god. You want to know everything That star wars is a vehicle for For example when snook appeared in the force awakens without a backstory fans rioted and caused 15 million dollars in damages at the premiere What? What is that a joke? Or is that real? I'm assuming that's a joke when snook was revealed No, no, we wanted to know who he was. We didn't have a problem with him existing. We were like, oh, who is this? Yeah, anything I was gonna happen with this guy. Who's he how did he rise to power? Where did he come from? Shouldn't he be making a joke about TLJ, not TFA? I think it should be like when Snoke was killed. People rioted. May... did he... I mean he's... I mean he's fucked... We're just... We're just deliberating in what way he fucked up here. Yeah. Suffocates the larger mythology that Star Wars is a vehicle for. For example, when Snoke appeared in The Force Awakens without a backstory, fans rioted and caused $15 million in damages at the premiere. What about the Emperor? He's even more powerful than Vader. He looks like he's a thousand years old. He wiped out the Jedi and turned a democracy into a fascist empire. There's obviously a story to tell there, and yet we learned nothing about where he came... Yeah, we don't need to know how he did that. Yeah. This is... we've done this before. This... I can't believe people are still making this argument. It's insane. So, Snoke and the Emperor, what is the difference? Why does one... Why do people want to know the history of one and not the other? And by the way, we're discounting the prequels for this argument. Pretend they don't exist for a second. So, Palpatine being in power isn't a problem, because when we join this universe, we're told an empire is in charge. This guy's at the top. The empire control the majority of the planets. There's a small band of rebels who are trying to, let's say, escape them. They're like, okay, we don't actually... Yes, we're not starting it. We're not starting at step two. This is step one. The creation of the universe with all of the givens. You take that, and then after that point, if something happens that requires an explanation, then that's the problem. It's moving from one step to the other. It's not the beginning. Yeah, and the easy comparison is that you have, let's just say a TV show, and you're like, you've seen all your characters, everything's going normal. Next episode, everything's slipped upside down. Half of them are dead, several of them are old. You're like, uh... What did I miss? You know, none of them are in power anymore. You're like, wow, there's this guy who's taken over everything. You're like, what the... Okay, I'm sorry. Like, what the hell happened? And by the way, you could theoretically do this. You just need to provide us all the information we need to understand how this all happened. But they never did. They just fucking gave up. They just skipped forward. They gave us loads of action scenes in TFA, loads of gun shootings, and ships flying, and... Did you guys see the Death Star but bigger? It blew up five planets, or like six or whatever. It was so cool. Oh man, like this would be like one of those what if in the real world another Holocaust happened? You'd be like, holy shit, how did that... How was that a thing that happened? How did we not stop that, knowing that we had one before, and we've all accepted that it's terrible? Like, how did this happen? Yeah, and everyone just doesn't talk about it. And just like, yeah. So the stakes are all fucked, because now we don't know how the hell the bad guys regenerate. We don't know where the hell this guy came from. How did this guy convert Kylo, or Ben, when he was surrounded by people like Han Solo, Luke Skywalker, and Leia? Like, how did that happen? It's just like, it just did. And it feels a little bit like betrayal. And then you see Luke being a cowardly asshole. It's just the same thing again. How did that happen? That's not the guy we know. We get given a flashback. How did this shit video convince anybody that TLJ is good? Well, I was going to say, like these are... So far, guys, this is pretty weak sauce stuff. We've had all these arguments before. Like, I don't want EFAP to be repetitive, but like, you know, hopefully it's been long enough that people can feel like this is interesting to talk about, but like, yeah. Snoke deserves no more backstory than the Emperor. I've heard that argument. Luke defeated Kylo with pacifism, just like he did with the Emperor. It's like, I heard that argument. We've been there before. All these ones tried out. I haven't heard the one that nothing is counted technically, so why do you care? That's a new one for me. But yeah, let's kick on about how we don't need Snoke's backstory. A thousand years old, he wiped out the Jedi and turned a democracy into a fascist empire. There's obviously a story to tell there, and yet we learned nothing about where he came from in the film. The Emperor is important within the Star Wars universe, but to us as an audience, his main importance is that he's the wedge between Luke and Vader. Luke is the angel on Vader's shoulder. He's still important to the universe. He's the boss of the bad guys that control the universe. Yeah. Not just important to the characters. He's very, very important. He's doing shit. Stuff's happening. Similar to Snoke, I will happily concede that Snoke is important to Kylo on a character level. Fine. But he's also important to the world. And by the way, I would have liked to have known what his relationship with Kylo was beyond You're beating my girl, little stupid boy. And then kills him later because he doesn't like Snoke. Like, oh, what a relationship. I learned a lot. Do you know the scenes with Palpatine and Vader? Fucking great. The one scene where the Emperor is revealed talking and talking. That's great. The Emperor is not just forgiving as I am. Like, oh my God. Just when we start hearing the Emperor's voice for the first time, or in that movie anyway, and hearing him laugh or cackle and talk about, we're gonna fucking kill everybody. And as somebody points out in the chat, like, people enjoyed in the prequels the idea of Palpatine's rise to power. Like, that's something that people generally really liked. So, okay. He called him a boy. This is like a classic meme. Palpatine is the devil. To have him regale us with the details of how he came to power would just be a distraction from the scene that we were there to see. Yeah, hence the prequels. Like, if they were going to tell his story they wouldn't have it in those scenes. They would have it in their own separate movies because the stakes do not change for the OT whether or not the prequels exist. This is not the same as Snoke. Try harder. Snoke has even less of a need for a backstory since he's an offshoot of that character. What? Huh? What? Less of a need for a backstory. To power would just be a distraction from the scene that we were there to see. No, we need to know how we go from the end of Jedi to the beginning of the Force Awakens because it doesn't make sense without the context. How is he so backwards? I mean, the reason why it works in the OT is because we didn't have context for what the universe was like beforehand. This is just what we're introduced with. But we already have six movies to establish how the universe was like and how it got from the prequels to the OT and at the end of the OT everything's good. How does it go from there 30 years later to TFA? It doesn't make sense. We need to understand that context in order to establish, to suspend our disbelief anyway. It's like building a Jenga tower, right? When you start out at the bottom, there's nothing to work against you. It's just you just sitting down some blocks and that's your foundation. And there's nothing more than that that you need. The more that you add to the top of it, the more that you have to take into consideration all of the stuff that you've built up to that point. Because if you don't, you're going to have some issues. Snoke is an issue because he is acting seemingly contradictory to a lot of stuff. No, well, maybe not contradictory, but in the context of the world in which he's in, we need an explanation as to how this could happen given previous information that it's built upon. And that's the issue. If your bottom blocks are evil empire, noble resistance and the empire is led by an evil emperor. Okay. Yeah. So there's no problems here. You can elaborate on that if you wish, but there's nothing that requires an explanation for storytelling purposes. That's the baseline. Everything is built off of it. It's baffling that he's concluded that there's like less of a need for Snoke. A Jango Fett tower. He's not even arguing for equal. He's arguing for, I just, all right. Henry Gaelas with the details of how he came to power would just be a distraction from the scene that we were there to see. Snoke has even less of a need for a backstory since he's an offshoot of that character. A wannabe emperor trying to assume the same rule. We've, how do you know that? He essentially fulfills the function of an emperor though. Like, in what way is he not an emperor? Yeah. How is, how is he failing to achieve? He's, I would argue he's better off. He seems to be more powerful. He's like achieving things that we've not even seen before. With the whole, like he could just magically connect people across the universe in a sky call, which apparently kills you. Like it kills Luke Skywalker to do that on just one end of it. So not bad. You can do that without apparently a second thought. Same with the, like the lightning move where he just like flicks his finger sort of thing. He's in control of more power than apparently emperor Palpatine seemed to be. Like the, um, the- This is why we criticized the sequel trilogy on its world building so much. This, this is like one of those discussions that comes around. The power of Snoke, the, uh, the efficacy and the, the, the scope of the first order. They're, how, how have they expanded? How, how are they existing? How are they a thing that was allowed to exist in this world? No, makes no fucking sense. I've seen several people in the chat telling us to prepare because we're apparently getting close to something he says that's real, Tizmy. Oh, really? Adjust, okay. What a challenge. What a challenge. Oh, worse than what we've already experienced, I guess. Oh, man. All right. Plus, with the details of how he came to power would just be a distraction from the scene that we were there to see. Snoke has even less of a need for a backstory since he's an offshoot of that character. A wannabe emperor trying to assume the same rule. We've seen enough people get disfigured in their pursuit of power that J.J. must have figured we were smart enough to figure this out without having to see it. Smart enough to- Weird, that's because- Okay, Anakin disfigured. Luke disfigured. It happens to good people, too. No. Okay, never mind then, I guess. Besides Rags, even if it did, you're smart enough to figure out how it happened, aren't you? Okay, so let's go one by one, shall we? So, one of them was killed, fucking slashed by a wampa. One of them was delimbed by his friend and left to burn. One of them was hit by his own lightning. Like, all three of those are completely fucking different, but we're supposed to be smart enough to figure out which one it's gonna be for each person that it happens to in the future. Also, um... Well, who's the Forced Whitaker in Rogue One? Oh, yeah, yeah. He was pretty fucked up. He had, like, no legs or something. Why was his eyes squinty? Yeah, he must have- He's a bad man. I mean, we've seen this before. He's a bad man because he got disfigured. What a retarded tape. You should be smart enough to know the history you've never heard of. Oh, and then I'm thinking about, what about- What other good characters are there that are disfigured? And I'm like, well, Kat and Halo Reach is missing an arm. Um... Who is the- One of the guys in, uh, Gears 5 that I played, he's missing a leg. Like, how many- How many of these can you go through? And then he- It's really not a- He's the guy that saluted Cypher Rage without a leg. So, Cypher Rage. Cypher Rage. A brave, safe move. Denad, sit down. Denad. Oh, and what about the commander in, um- What? The commander guy in Starship Troopers. He has a robot arm. Yeah, well, you know how that happened. Specifically, you know. He was a good man. Let's just hear that again. Luke has even less of a need for a backstory since he's an offshoot of that character. A wannabe emperor trying to assume the same rule. We've seen enough people get disfigured in their pursuit of power that J.J. must- Okay, so we don't want to know the history of Snoke because he's disfigured. Lieutenant Dan. What? Lieutenant- Someone mentioned Lieutenant Dan in that- I just want to highlight the- How many people did you meet who said, you know, I really want to know Snoke's history? Do you know why? It's like, because of his face. It's all fucked up. That's why I want to know. They're like, oh, what about like what he did with the Skywalker and Solo families? He's like, oh, I don't care. It's his face. That's what I want to know. Just so we'll throw a lightsaber at his face. Oh, Harry Osborn. That's a good one. Good one, chat. Harry Osborn turned good after being disfigured. Yeah, but you knew how that happened. Someone said- Raven in the Metal Gear Solid. He had his entire body cut off. Yeah, but you knew. Nick Fury has an eye missing. You knew how that- Oh, no. That's an example of where it's like, let's not explain that, shall we? Oh, also, of course. Very good, Chal. In a chat, chew and chat. The Elric Brothers. So, here's that. Yes. And finding that out was extremely satisfying, but fuck it, because mystery better. You've seen people get injured before. Raid Shadow Legends. I need to take a pee break. I'll be right back. Wolf from Sekiro, Zuko. Let's do a run. Don't even know how Zuko got his scar. We should do a Raid Shadow Legends ad wolf. We commissioned for it. Hold on. The best part? I refute you. It's free. No, no, no. Person in the chat. Knowing how Zuko got his scar, specifically who did it, is pretty important to his character. Just saying. Well, I mean, you don't even need to count at this point. It's so stupid. Like, he's trying to say, like, why do we need to know the history of Snoke? He's scarred, sure. It's not like we can't figure out how someone could get scarred. It's like, what are you, who are you fighting against? Who is this trooper? I know how I got these scars. My mother was very nice, and she fell on me one day. That's not, that's not okay. She fell on you and she made out of knives. Yes. You say that like it's ridiculous. All right, I'm back. Hello. All we concluded is that it's amusing that he thinks people want to know Snoke's history because he's scarred. Who cares even less of a need for a better story? I was, while I was pissing, I was thinking, maybe I should do an actual review of Raid Shadow Legends. That'll probably be interesting. I've heard that Jay is interested in doing such a thing. You should do it. I, yeah, I, I. Hey, right, the best part? It's free. It's free. It's free games or the highest quality. Free. You can buy some stuff in it, which is only good. Features. An offshoot of that character. A wannabe emperor trying to assume the same rule. We've seen enough people get disfigured in their pursuit of power that JJ must have figured we were smart enough to figure this out without having to see it again. Ah, yeah, Robocop. I don't like the appeal to you'd be smart if you didn't want to know Snoke's history. I find that frustrating, but I'm gonna move on because you know what? He said this is all a joke, right? He said that if you don't like comedy, you shouldn't be here. I like comedy, so I'm not going to get upset by any of this. I know it's all a joke. The emperor or Snoke. Someone said Edward's scissor mother. We were just sharing stories about how if you had a mother who fell on you and she was made of knives, you could get a scar. Isn't that right, Rags? That would make sense. Um, say, uh, if your mother was made out of knives. Yeah, if she fell on you. You could get scars. Yeah. If my mother was made out of knives and I fell on her. She fell on you. No, she fell on me. I mean, I guess if you fell on her this thing would happen. Yeah, I'd probably get some nasty cuts from Knife Mom. Yeah, there you go. I'm just, I'm glad we got, we, we managed to agree on that because that's quite controversial from what I hear. He must have figured we were smart enough to figure this out without having to see it again. Like the emperor, Snoke is only important to us as an extension of another character, Kylo Ren. No. No, no, no. He's important because he resurrected the empire. He's important because he managed to fuck Luke up to the point where he nearly tried to kill one of his own family members. He's important yes to Kylo. Let's make this easy. If Kylo Ren was not a character that existed at all, Snoke would be extremely important. He would be just, if not more important than he is now. If you remove Kylo from the equation, that doesn't mean Snoke, all of a sudden is completely meaningless or not important. If anything, the opposite occurs. This is a ridiculous point. How did you say this without stopping yourself and saying, you know what? Backspace, backspace, backspace. I shouldn't say that. That's clearly stupid. Backspace, backspace. Then you go keep going. Just keep, just hold it down. Just, just hold out for a few hours. Until the beginning and then go and, I don't know, play a, play that rage shadow legend. Kylo's story seems to be one of the force balancing itself. The Jedi didn't really understand how it worked and thought that balance meant killing all the bad guys. Is he not to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the force? That's what happens at the end of the sixth episode. The Sith are destroyed. Yeah. And it's considered Vader bringing balance, fulfilling the prophecy. So. If anything, the notion of what balance truly means is a little shifty. Yeah. There are many people who have many ideas. Bray Prince Jr., for example, believes it means to have equal numbers in terms of actual numbers or power on the Jedi and Sith sides. And therefore. Fucking dumb. Yeah. It's hilarious. What do you think about it? It's like the force has to generate new Jedi or new Sith, depending on which side is more powerful at the time, which is just like, okay. If anything, you, I mean, it would be more reasonable to say that the Jedi are the embodiment of the force's balance. They are not, they are not pure in either direction. They are kind of like balanced in that sense. Maybe I would be more reasonable to me. Like the Jedi maintain the balance. The balance isn't about, you know, numbers or anything. It's about maybe, maybe it's the state of the universe. Maybe it's a glow, like the universe's force sensitive people's dispositions or their relationship with the force. It can be used in a lot of ways. Some make more sense than others. Oh, you know what? I just realized I'm full of shit. I said that the Sith were destroyed. Palpatine survived. Obviously. So yeah, I just lied. Asshole. Sorry. He he's sift the portion of the Death Star down onto a planet. Remember that? That's that's the candidate. Okay. He sifted through space. Palpatine. He didn't die. He was just on the the actual like circular panel that fired the Death Star laser. That's where he was. And he was like, week two. You even went on like, you surf some waves. It was awesome. Which led to Luke abandoning the four. Oh, wait, what the fuck? What the hell is happening here? Wait, wait, wait. Why is Kyla Wren coming out of Snoke's head? I don't know. Let's find out. The Jedi didn't really understand how it worked and thought that balance meant killing all the bad guys. Is he not to destroy the sith and bring balance to the force? So the prophecy says a prophecy that misread I'm just pausing to make sure this clip doesn't fuck us for copyright. Could have been. But a lot of quotes from Lucas imply it to be more of a literal balance. Also, two sides, good side, the evil side, and they both need to be there in Times Magazine. There's not a malevolent or benevolent thing. OK, too much light or dark would be the undoing of life as you understand it. OK. Someone's saying here that Thor Skywalk in chat our forces Thor Skywalker says balance is the absence of the dark side. So maybe the maybe the force in and of itself is, you know, it is what it is, you know, and the the evil aspect is what corrupts it perhaps. Who knows? Would you say that? Thor Skywalker? Doesn't he a YouTuber? I remember that. Yeah, I think so. I believe so. I believe he is. Doesn't he know that Thor and Skywalker's are from two different fucking cannons? You can't have. Why not? They both have force lightning. God damn it rags. Your fantasy canon is no more meaningful than my fantasy canon. OK. You know what? What if? OK, bear with me. What if because because the Jedi were a long time ago going to galaxy far, far away? What if over time they left their galaxy and the force slowly but surely changed and they forgot how to make lightsabers for whatever reason and they settled in a far off planet and then they founded Hogwarts. That sounds like your opinion. No. I'm just saying saying. How does Gandalf fit into that? How does Gandalf fit into that? Oh, he's one of those in-betweeners. It's a parallel universe. It's one of these. He's on another. He's on infinite. Oh, my goodness. You you. Oh, my God. That's foreshadowing for what's to come. It should be just like two days ish until part one of EFAP reacting to infinite. Yes, it's coming out. I know a lot of people are excited. It's on its way. And it's really bad. It's this sort of. How would you put it rags? It's the equivalent of the Avengers assembling for the CW shows. Yeah. Batwoman. No. Yeah. Batwoman, Supergirl, a bunch of supermen. I don't even know if they have any TV shows. Arrow briefly. Robot bad. I don't know. There's a bunch of people we team up. I guess I guess if chat doesn't know, we watched the first episodes of Crisis on Infinite Earth and they're batshit insane. It's amazing. We love them so much. They. They. Is people are. They really enjoyed it. Quality entertainment. That's the part they get. Apex cinema. Anyway, back to this wonderful video. Requiring both sides to some extent. This movie makes that clearer than ever. The ancient Jedi even kept some sort of dark side crystal beneath their island for that purpose. Balance. Powerful light, powerful darkness. The Jedi recruited a man. You just cited Disney canon to explain how things make more sense than we think they do from Disney canon. Interesting. That doesn't work. You've cheated. But also here we fucking go with this graph. I don't know what's gonna happen here. Massive number of light users which allowed a super powerful sith to pull. What? That doesn't make sense. What? Yoda became like fucking nil and Palpatine is like super. Isn't that? Oh, and maybe he's not going with the Freddie Prince Junior explanation, my bad. Balance. Powerful light, powerful darkness. The Jedi recruited a massive number of light users which allowed a super powerful sith to pull Anakin to the dark side and destroy them. As the last Jedi died out, the force began to flow through Luke and he pulled Anakin back to the light. Leading to the sith. What? What was balanced about any... Okay. You have the Jedi order as a massive galactic force that is involved in the culture and the politics of the galaxy. There are thousands of them, supposedly. There's a sith two. There's three or four. How many are sith are there? Like less than a dozen? There's like Dooku and Palpatine. And was... Well, the thing with Dooku is like, was he a Jedi prior to the second episode or is he counted as a sith throughout the whole prequel thing? I think he was counted as a Jedi prior to episode two. Yeah. Yeah, because everyone was like they knew him. Yeah. What does he say? He's a political idealist, not a murderer. Which was a naive comment to say the least. Yeah. If you expect anybody to be a murderer, it is a political idealist. Well, a political idealist has the power to literally kill people at range with his telekinesis. He would never kill anyone. He's a communist. Red could have been. But a lot of quotes from Lucas imply it to be more of a literal balance requiring both sides to some extent. This movie makes that clearer than ever. The ancient Jedi even kept some sort of dark side crystal beneath their eye-lander for that purpose. Balance. Yeah, again, you can't cite this to prove how this makes sense. Powerful light, powerful darkness. The Jedi recruited a massive number of light users which allowed a super powerful sith to pull Anakin to the... So, okay. How? The logic is we start neutral. Yoda and Ko get loads of Jedi. That pushes them really far up. This allows Palpatine to rise up. That's what he says. If anything, that would be really difficult. Are you saying it would be easier for Palpatine to rise for the more Jedi there are? Even though he has to kill all of them to get them out of his way? Yeah. He has to literally create an army to even begin to make that a possibility? Like, Palpatine is not having an easy time of it. No, I think, if anything, if you said, hey Palpatine, I can snap the Jedi out of existence for you. He'd be like, oh, shit, do it. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Thanks, man. Yeah. I just want to say that this graph is worse than the one I used in the Arrival Debate. It's a great graph. How could you say that? Also, I'm aware, some people like Dooku used to be a Jedi. I know. I was saying, was he on that scale during like Phantom Menace? Was he a Jedi? Do we count him as a Jedi? Or do we count him as a Sith throughout all the prequels? That was my question. Oh, God, someone said, look at this graph. Someone, please, Photoshop. What's on the screen right now? Look at this graph. All right, let's hear more of this because I feel like we're going to have to stop this several times because it makes no sense at all. They're still beneath their islander for that purpose. The Jedi recruited a massive number of light users, which allowed a super powerful Sith to pull Anakin to the dark side and destroy them. That doesn't follow. I don't understand. That is interesting logic. The more Jedi you have, the easier it is to convert Jedi to the Sith. Maybe, like, explain, if I had to try and come up with a rationale for that, I'd be saying, well, maybe it would be easier to find potential recruits. That's much more like a numbers game, but yeah, sure. But yeah, but then that's like, oh, but oh, is it easier for? Is it easier for the rebellion because there's a massive empire? I don't get how else this would work in another if I. What a strange analogy. This graph is confusing. Yes, powerful light, powerful darkness. The Jedi recruited a massive number of light users, which allowed a super powerful Sith to pull Anakin to the dark side and destroy them. As the last Jedi died out, the force began to flow through Luke and he pulled Anakin back to the light, leading to the Sith being destroyed. But Palpatine never left. He didn't die. Yeah, why did you have Palpatine disappear in that graph? He was alive. He was alive. Yeah, you're a retarded Disney canon. He's alive and well, buddy. He seems to be doing a... What? This convinced people. Oh, man, if this convinced you, oh, man. And he pulled Anakin back to the light, leading to the Sith being destroyed or not. I'm leaving Palpatine out of this until we know what the fuck is going on. How can you leave him out? He's like the only thing that's been here since Phantom Menace all the way up to Episode 9. Yeah. Can't leave him out. Luke began training a new generation of Jedi and with Snoke apparently... Apparently people in this dude's... Okay, so... Yeah, go ahead. Apparently people in this dude's Discord are covering us, covering him. Oh, I don't give a shit. I don't give a shit what their opinions are. Hello, everybody. I hope you know that your favorite YouTuber kind of sucks. Yeah, this video is terrible. Well, I've heard his other videos are good, but this isn't a great first impression. Yeah, I'm sure he's a great guy. He just has really bad videos on last Jedi. So, early... Before this segment in the graph, you had young Luke, and he just acted like Palpatine didn't exist when he was clearly alive for all of Episode 1 through 6. Now we're at old Luke, right? So, old Luke is training new Jedi, and you have Snoke who... And I guess Palpatine is alive by extension. We technically don't have confirmation, even though we kind of do. I mean, his logic seems to be, if ever one side outstretches or understretches, the other side does the same eventually, in some way. That seems to be... But if anything, that's not like balance. That's just a pendulum swinging back and forth. That's not balance. That's the opposite. That's going from one extreme to the other. Why is... It seems like the force is constantly trying to balance. If this is how the Jedi understood it, then how the hell they wouldn't want it, would they? They'd be like, oh, God, we don't want balance. It's almost like it's pointless. It's like, if you're in the Jedi, especially in the prequels, you're in the Jedi, you've got your council, you've got your big building, you have a... Not a global presence, a galactic presence, you're keeping the peace, there's no wars happening, and this is something that's happened for thousands of years, right? At what point do you say, you know, I don't know about this weird balance thing, what we've got and what we're doing now is working pretty darn good, whatever the balance is or isn't. So let's just keep maintaining what we're doing now. So let's hear out some more of this graph. Being destroyed or not. I'm leaving Palpatine out of this until we know what the fuck is going on. Luke began training a new generation of Jedi, and with Snoke apparently being the only counterbalance, Ben was pulled to the dark side to even things out. Okay, enough. You're just recanting what happens in the plot and establishing it just makes sense this way. Yeah, it just happens. You cannot knock out Palpatine and claim this makes sense. Yeah, I would love to get, let's just sit down with someone who looked at this graph and were convinced. I was like, no, no, no, explain the graph to me, explain it. I want you to tell me the reasons why this graph makes any level of sense. Snoke was way more powerful than Luke, or at least that's the impression I got considering that Luke died from doing the move that Snoke apparently did on an afternoon. So how is it that Snoke is the counterbalance for Luke that can pull Kylo? If anything, Kylo should have just started on Luke's, Snoke's side. I don't even know how it, how is, how this logic works. Who, who is a new person supposed to go to if let's say the Sith have more of the graph? Is it, is it the Jedi? Is that how it's supposed to work? Because he did just conclude, right, that Luke was, like, Snoke was a reaction to Luke. Is that what he's trying to say? Being destroyed, or not. I'm leaving Palpatine out of this until we know what the fuck is going on. Luke began training a new generation of Jedi. See how he's pushing Luke above Snoke? Like Luke is more. Why? Very weird. Why? Well, with Snoke apparently being the only counterbalance, Ben was pulled to the do- That doesn't, that doesn't follow. So because he, what are you trying to say is that Kylo was pushed from good to bad to fill up the bad side because the bad side is falling behind the good side, but the bad side was more powerful. So how does this, is it based on how much control of the galaxy you have? Is that how this works? It's not actually about force level. It's, If you don't establish what it is at the beginning, then how do you, how do you tell? It's like, well, okay, well, we have to maintain balance. It's like, all right, well, what is, what is the balance then? What determines whether or not we're balanced or in balance? It's like force accountants. They're all like, oh, shit, this Snoke guy. He's like really powerful. We're gonna have to, we're gonna have to do something about this guys. And also no chat. I haven't gotten my monthly thrust yet. Still waiting, still waiting. Well, sweet, it's, all right, you don't have a Twitter. I sent him a Patreon message and I showed him the picture Beowyn made. Wait, which one? The one where he said, I'm ready for my monthly thrust. I don't believe I've seen that one. Oh, do I want to? Oh, I guess I don't think, okay, rags. I somehow don't think that Tonald would respond particularly well to you sending that to him. What? I'm his biggest fan. Rags, you have to understand. That's, I don't think. This may not have worked for Tonald. I think that might have scared him anyway. Rags, you spooked Tonald. You scared Tonald. And yet he made a new video. And I brought him back. I brought him back. He may have made a new video, but he still hasn't provided his monthly thrust. Maybe that was his idea of a monthly thrust. I was gonna say, if anything, he baited Rags with that picture by promising him a monthly thrust. I can't believe you. Did you actually send this to Tonald? Absolutely, I did. I'm ready for my monthly thrust. Do you have evidence that you sent this because I don't know if you're fucking with me or not? I'm not fucking with you. If ever there is a time where I'm speaking once every now you can tell, you're like, please show me. No, no, this is where the friendship happens. This is where you gotta learn how to... I promise to you. I swear on... I don't know why my mom's not dead. I swear on Abraham Lincoln's grave that I am telling you the truth. I did. Old Abe is gonna be really invested in this. Yeah, to be specific, I sent it... Well, I'll get you a date later. But yeah, and what happened after I did? He made a new video. Who could say no to that? Who could say no to that? You scared him so shitless. He actually was like, fuck, I gotta make a video before this guy sends more of this. There's your monthly thrust. Leave me alone. Yeah. I mean, try to be okay with that. Anyway, this graph. Look at this graph. Luke began training a new generation of Jedi. Some poor guy started the stream and saw that. With Snoke apparently being the only counterbalance, Ben was pulled to the dark side to even things out. He destroyed the Jedi, which led to Luke abandoning the force, leaving no active Jedi on the light side. This led to Kylo being pulled back to the light. When? When? When on Snoke? Why Kylo? Yeah, why Kylo? How come Kylo's the pinball now? All right, so... What? Okay, let's just... Oh, damn it, man. Wait, wait, wait, wait. He wasn't even pulled back to the light in this movie. He literally killed Han and like confirmed he's evil, and then he did it again in the last Jedi. Yeah, people act as if Kylo was like wishy-washy, but I'm like, no, no, no. Give me an example of Kylo going to the light side. Give me one. Give me one example of him going to the light side. When he was like, I feel bad, Han. I feel bad because I'm getting pulled all over the place. And then he fucking murdered him. I know, but there's still evidence that he's a wishy-washy piece of shit. It's like... You know, they're gonna say, well, he killed Snoke and it's like, yeah, but five minutes later... He wanted to take his fucking position. That doesn't even count. Fuck it, L. What could be more, what could be more light side than killing your master and taking his place? Oh, wait, wait. Is there a particular side that does that a lot? I can't remember. People who think that there's a reasonable conflict that's been displayed here for Kylo Ren are delusional. It's almost as though there's a precedent for Sith betraying one another. No. Like, oh. No, that's what the Jedi do. Remember when Mace Windu fucking killed Yoda? I wonder if there was a Jedi master who has red skin and horns, who said this in a very popular video game that was in a trailer from, I don't know, 12 years ago. Oh, General Grievous, yeah, in the third one. Yeah, yeah, so was I. His resistance to this led to the light finding an outlet through Rey. What? You... That's how that works now? If someone on the dark side that is overpopulated with the Force, by the way, says, oh man, I might go to the light side, but I'm totally not going to. The Force goes, okay, fuck you, I'm going to make a new one. And if anything, this is super depressing if you're a Jedi, because you know that you're just going to get fucking killed and it's going to swing the other way. I don't like these rules, they're gay. These aren't even rules. Like, rules imply consistency. And this is just, how do I justify what's in the movies using this? Oh yeah, this feels post-talk as hell. He's just applying the movie's plot to this graph and doing his best to be like, this totally makes sense, everyone. Rey's fursona is a mosquito? No, she'd be a... Oh my gosh. Rey would be a boy. Why would that be? Rey would be like a mink. Or like a, like a, I don't know, what do they call ferret, you know? Do you guys like how the existence of Palpatine fucks up his whole graph and he's just ignoring it? Oh yeah. He even addressed that. He was like, I don't know what's happening with Palpatine. Fuck it, fuck it Palpatine. I warned my young apprentice that as he grew stronger, his equal in the light would rise. Yes, this is the retarded canon that we're already complaining about and now you're using it to justify this canon. That's not how it works. It's like, it's really dubbed that Luke did this in The Lost Jedi, that you go, yes, but Luke in The Lost Jedi is this character. You're like, that's the problem. How can Luke even count as being on the other side if he cut himself off from the force and lived in exile? Like how does it even, how is it even on the graph at all? I love that he was like, Kylo is getting bobs back and forth. He's in the force, he's like, hey, hey, come over to the light, hey, and he's like, no, no, stop. What are you, does it hurt? That constant back and forth has defined Kylo Ren's character. He's right. Inconsistency defines Kylo Ren. Yeah. I have no idea what he actually values, definitively. I mean, that's kind of the same for Ray. You know, it's not really the same for Finn. It's just that it doesn't line up with Finn's history, like whatever Finn's values are, it's confusing. It's almost like the characters in the sequel trilogy aren't very good. What do you guys think? I get that impression. And I just think that might be the case. I'm convinced of it. He tore the part. He's like a desperate cultist looking for an escape. No, he's leading the cult. He's the guy in charge. He's the supreme leader. And he's recommitted twice. How much more does he have to do? And again, name something good that he's done. Just one little thing. Name a good thing that he's... In fact, he saved Ray from Snoke. It wasn't because he wanted Snoke dead anyway. Yeah, and only for his own personal... It's not like he directly fought Ray, and we've seen trailers of him trying to fucking kill her in the new movie. What are you talking about? Raylo hashtag. Snoke has convinced him that the answer is going fully to the dark side and becoming the next Darth Vader. Kylo does everything Snoke tells him and it doesn't work. He becomes even more conflicted and less powerful. Bested by a girl who would never help... Yeah, that's actually a plot hole. Yeah, like that's really crazy how you'd been training for this basically your entire life. And she beat you with her lightsaber. What he just said though, like he's like Kylo does everything correctly and he cannot beat this random girl. This is proof that the dark side is just not enough for him. It's like the dark side characterized almost exclusively by the fast track to power. And people say, oh yeah, Kylo was shot by that blaster thingy. He's like, oh, the pain and hatred makes him stronger because he's the fucker than Sith. Not to mention, he's not impaired by it at all at any point this fight. As E.R pointed out, he's fucking doing his acrobatic shit. It's like, oh, he's shot in the gut though, I think, maybe. I just can't believe how much of that E.R video completely changed by mind as soon as I saw it. It's because I was like under the impression this was a really good movie for a while, and then I saw that video and I was like, oh, no, it sucks. Wrong. That's my big take. I always like to interpret it as Ryan Johnson being like, you fucking movie made no sense, JJ, with that line from Snoke and JJ's like, fuck you man. Also, man. My movie that makes sense. It's hard to believe. I doubt JJ's like, well, I'm gonna make a movie that makes even less sense than both of them. He like repairs the mask and some guys like, why are you repairing the mask Kyle? And he's like, because it didn't make any sense for me to crash it, did it? It didn't make any sense for me to break it. That was dumb. The guy's like, well, why don't you just requisition a new one? And he's like, I like this one. So they keep making movies back and forth and they keep fucking having throwaway lines that attack each other. And then like, Ryan makes an alien called JJ. He's like incompetent and annoying. I mean, we're close to that. We just bring in Jar Jar. We've said it before. Bring in Jar Jar. He can save the sequel trilogy. He can save it. Have him kill Rose and Holdo. Bring Holdo back. Imagine Holdo force ghost. Can you imagine like all the Palpatine shit is just like fake? And all of those trailers we've seen so far, that if they don't actually, like Palpatine's not in the movie. We watched the movie. It's just Jar Jar. And he's like, Mesa bumper take gonna kill y'all. I need a sass in Jar Jar. I can't do a stupid Jar Jar voice. But you know, I would turn the movie into a comedy so quickly I might actually unironically like it. I just like the theory that Snoke was Jar Jar. I really liked that one. I was like, do it. He had like horrible disfigurements because of the fact that he tried to have surgery to alter his face to look more human. It would have been great. I hope that if I get hit with a lightsaber in the face, it's not. You know, it would make sense since he's got that big scar down the center of his head. All we need to do is get EFAP popular enough that we can buy the rights to Star Wars. Let's do it, guys. Let's do it. Every super chat that you send gets us one step closer to buying the rights to Star Wars. We have Bob Iger on these like if you could get, I don't know, 10,000 likes. All right. All right. This is possible. All right. We do it. We do it. After some reflection, he realizes that he's being used. He has the chance to kill his mother and doesn't take it. When Ray calls him a monster. And then he seems to be all right with it. Yeah. He kind of just lets it happen. He's like, oh, well, that happened. He's like, he hesitated is he didn't not do it. He hesitated if anything. He's like, well, I guess I'm not gonna. If anything, they did the the yoink from Halo. They stole his kill. Yeah. Like, we don't know if he wouldn't have gone through with it. If anything, it just seems like he hesitated in his wingman blew it up. And then he was like, OK, then. Certainly didn't bother him. I mean, he fucking killed his dad without any issues. I want to highlight. I don't agree with him that Kylo is extremely inconsistent and you never know what he's thinking. I haven't seen The Last Jedi since opening night of the movie coming out. Did he even am I just forgetting it? But did he even acknowledge Leia after she, quote unquote, died? No. Like, does he does he even realize she's not dead? He makes it. Does he make a face? I don't even think they show him. Do they? I think they do. But he doesn't seem to recognize that she's not actually dead at any point. There's no scene of him to be like, oh, she's actually not dead. OK. I guess we'll get that in the next movie. I don't know. Though he would know, right? Because of the force. I don't know. The siths feel the deaths of their loved ones when they die. I don't know. The siths. The sith love. Guys, the sith love. They love hate. They hate. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I'm sorry. I need to show you guys this. This is a. It's too beautiful. No. Didn't mean to press cancel. I meant to press upload. Oh, no. OK, there we go. Oh, get up. Oh, give me a sec. I'll have to show it probably. You go on a peaceful rhino farm in Naboo. We need you. Stahls is still alive. We need something stronger. We need you. Shocker noises. Fine. Mesa do it myself this time. I love how they even gave him a beer. He's got Ridos. Jar Jar is supposedly still possibly alive, living off of a pension or whatever, being in the Senate. He's a. He's like thanks to the sequel trilogy. He's downright a fan favorite that character. We need him back. Yeah, man. Jar Jar's out there. He is alive somewhere. You know, I would accept a bounty hunting Jar Jar. What would be Jar Jar's theme? Jar Jar's theme. I guess the ocean paradise. Oh, yeah. That's probably the most suitable. Most fitting of his character. Anyway, back back to the whole. So like Kylo is conflicted. Kylo is still conflicted because he's conflicted because he's conflicted. How do you argue that this is about character when you've got it? Basically built into the force rules that it's going to pull you around. Yeah, so much is like, does free will exist? In Star Wars, the force decides what you're going to decide. Okay. After some reflection, he realizes that he's being used. He has the chance to kill his mother and doesn't take it. When Ray calls him a monster, he agrees. Yes, I am. He needs to free himself from Snow Ganodorf. Okay, do you not think that all the others would also say, yeah, I'm fucking monstrous? It depends on the definition, I suppose. Yeah, I don't give a shit. It's all about power. Power is what's important. I love how much people swoon over Kylo. It just amuses me. Like in terms of character writing, when it's all so gobbled. Rags, the Senate was dissolved in a new hope. He wouldn't get a pension. That's fair enough. Oh, no. Can they make a new one? He missed out on his pension. But okay, so the Senate was dissolved. So he would probably get something. 19 years of pension, potentially. Yeah, that's a... Can save it up. And then once the new republic's formed, he puts in his papers, he gets re-established pension. It's possible. Well, here's the thing. We're forgetting that Jar-Jar has come... He probably spent that entire pension on his rhino farm. On hookers and blow. Cocaine. He's living the good life in his underwater city. I don't know how Naboo's doing these days. I hope it's doing. Oh, we're at all began. I'm sure they'll just... Talisman throw away line. It was blown apart. Yeah, it was one of the five planets that blew up. Like there's so many people, including myself, thought that Coruscant was the one that was blown up. I thought that was what it was because it looked exactly the same. It's just some other planet. When Ray calls him a monster, he agrees. Yes, I am. He needs to free himself from Snoke in order for his character to move forward and he needs Ray's help. Becoming Snoke? Do it. He needs to move forward and become the supreme leader himself. Move forward. That's an interesting way to... I think everyone... Because he doesn't move. Like if he's moving forward in the sense of in a straight line trajectory, he is moving forward. Yeah, he's moving forward towards being eviler and more powerfuler. Sure. Yeah. In that sense. Yeah. You stuff together. Apprentices always trying to recruit another apprentice to join with them. A lot of people who interpreted this as a subversion of their expectations which has become a meme now. But if you're paying it... Yeah, Ryan Johnson single-handedly ruined that writing style. Yeah, he did. There's loads of times when you try to bring it up and people are like, Oh, Ryan Johnson... You're like, No, no, no. It's a real thing. No, uh... Attention to the character. It's not a subversion. This should be... You pay attention to the character. I like these subtle jabs. If you're smart, you won't ask about Snoke's history. Yeah. If you pay attention, you'll understand Kylo. Like, oh, thanks for that. This is a great guide for those who are ill-informed or fucking not paying attention. I love it. They did this as a subversion of their expectations which has become a meme now. But if you're paying attention to the character, it's not a subversion. This should be the expectation. He's not turning good. He's doing exactly what his character needs to and he's offering Ray the chance to come along just as Vader did to Luke. And fans also hated this because they didn't get their fucking... Okay, so now we're on the... He's not good at all. He's not becoming good. Of course, he doesn't become good. He's like, yeah, on that I agree, but doesn't that fuck around with your graph from earlier? I think we're gonna have to ignore his graph because we're gonna keep coming back to it about how much it doesn't make any sense. We'll just ignore the graph. Secondly, listen to how he delivers this, all right? Exactly what his character needs to and he's offering Ray the chance to come along just as Vader did to Luke. And fans also hated this because they didn't get their fucking Wikipedia page filled out. You can't kill him yet. That's what... Yeah, that's definitely what he was. I also want to remind you, he was like, this is a... This is comedic. This is not what's meant to be taken seriously. It's just a guy sharing his opinion. Did he not sound bitter as fuck when he said that? Absolutely, he is. He sounds like the kind of guy who's fucking tired of people fucking complaining about Snoke getting his fucking Wikipedia page, okay? And you're like, I'm sorry. Who's advocating for a whole Wikipedia page? We just want to know what we need to know for it to make sense. Yeah, how the fuck did this happen? I like that he knows our opinions for us. Well, yeah, we get that a lot when people talk about... Classic stroll, man. It's like, let's look at what they're complaining about. We need to know Snoke's history in order to connect the films together and for everything to run on and make sense. So you want a fucking Wikipedia page? I mean, I suppose a Wikipedia page would happen as a result. You could probably write one, yeah. But yeah, because there'd be information to write it about, so... Oh, yeah. Okay, thank you. But I'm sure there's already a Wikipedia page for this scene anyway. It's going to be a long Wikipedia page for Snoke already. It's already there. To come along just as Vader did to Luke. And fans also hated this because they didn't get their fucking Wikipedia page filled out. You can't kill him yet. I need him! The film is already overlong and packed. No, you could kill him. But we still need to know where he came from. I'm still surprised he was killed. I didn't think he'd be that dumb to fall for the lightsaber move when he's so powerful and able to read minds at will. Remember, he can just read someone's mind by pointing his hand at them. Like, he pulls everything he needs out of Rey immediately while Kylo couldn't even do it. Remember, he was locked out? At least on the second part. He pulled out that it was a droid on Takadana, but when he got her into the main place. Remember, she read his mind because Rey's that powerful. So that's that I can't wait to see Darth Uchi's Wikipedia page. With plot, how would this have helped? I will kill you with the cruelest stroke. But first, let me tell you about the- Why is this always what they say? Why every time this? They're like, if people like Ragsmoor and Wolfgub what they wanted, Snoke would arbitrarily start explaining everything in his history during a scene. You're like, nooo. You guys just want scenes full of exposition dumps, don't you? They act as though we all just want, like, anime level exposition. No. We can reference a million other movies that have exposition that's not 11 badly. One of my suggestions- Fucking straw manning. Yeah, one of my suggestions in, I think my TLJ critique was that he sets up in TFA that he needs to finish the Dark Side training with Kylo. That's a great way to talk to Kylo about the history of the Sith or how they managed to recover from absolute devastation while training him while having character moments. You get all these things done together. You get a really good dialogue writer. You can get all this stuff in nice and smoothly. We talked about this with Mandalorian's first episode. Lots of whale building done in very casual, natural ways. You don't have to just randomly start spilling out a scroll's worth of information. That's not what we want. Yeah, I mean, if anything, we're very clear about how much we hate that. I just- I'm so tired of this straw man. He's so old. Rikety. Come on. Summers I spent on Nile R7. Growing up, I always had a fascination with antique clocks. The ticking. Get it? Because it would be so dumb to get information on Snoke. Yeah. The talking. Cynthia, who was the first to break my heart. It's funny. Someone in chat just said not even Saitama wants anime level exposition in One Punch Man. When the protagonist meets up with a guy who's got a cyborg body, he starts explaining his history and it's really drawn out. And he like shouts at him because it's just too boring. Like he needs to speed up or just summarize it in a paragraph or whatever. And I just find it funny because that's pretty much how everyone feels about this shit. We don't- We don't actually want to read a Wikipedia page in the movie. Okay? Just clarifying. Ray spent the previous film obsessed with finding answers to who she is. Uh, obsessed is a word to use. Yeah. Curious? And doesn't find any when she arrives at Luke's island. The important thing for her character- Oh no, things happen between- Oh yeah, like there's like a movie and a half. There's like, yeah, there's like a movie that happens between those, but okay, don't talk about that. Remember when she has a fight with Kylo and she goes back to the later Falcon? They have the location to Luke and for some reason the resistance said her. Why? That is like- Yeah, not like a Corvette ship or something. She was looking for identity with Luke's like, oh, that's- Oh, well, um, why would Leia give a shit? Why would anyone give a shit? It's Luke. Go away, random person who was to find a new father figure now that your previous one just died. Which by the way, is just like straight as canon as you can get. Like, it was pulled out of her brain that she sees Had Solo as a father figure. And also, how many itinerant random people would just- would just think that Luke is a hero and everything like that and would be just dying to meet him from a fan level? Exactly. Why wouldn't Leia go? And they'd be like, no. Yeah, I was like, no. Imagine if it was Leia there. She would have convinced him to come back. Yeah, she wouldn't stand for a shit. It would have been great. She would have fucking slapped him. Not some random chick. Ah. Isn't the answer. It's breaking her dependence on it. It's your greatest weakness. Looking for them everywhere in hot solo. Now it's Skywalker. In her d- Yeah, it's very confusing. She hasn't started the dark side. She didn't even know what it is. Well, Luke said it though. He said, I don't see this level of Tism in anyone other than one person other than before. Remember, that means she's adopted. What did I do? I don't even have an understanding of what I did. You're going to have to make this clear. Because it's very obvious that I'm just an angel. Exactly. It's fascinating to me because like, the movie does its best to be like, hey, she's conflicted and she's not just good. And you're like, how? She fell in the dark anus in the island. But what does she do? It's like, okay. She touched fingers with Kyla. That's probably evil. You're like, oh. Oh. Okay. Well, it's straight to the dark. Hit off with something you needed. You didn't even try to stop yourself. She's forced to accept that there isn't an easy answer that will solve everything. And that she has to- What did she do? That was evil here. I'm sorry. There isn't an easy answer that will solve it. She just wants to know who her parents are. That's not like it suddenly makes everything okay. There's still a lot of things going on, like people dying. And it is fascinating that this is considered evil, I guess, or dark-sighted. Yeah. If it was me and I went through the whole dark anus thing and I fell in and I was curious about my parents and stuff. And then I got pulled out and Luke chewed me out about the dark side. I'm like, the what side? What the fuck did I do? I didn't do anything bad. Also compare to Luke going down in Dagobah and he kills Vader. Like he just executes him sort of thing in the lightsaber duel. That says a lot about what his intentions are or what he's willing to do and then has him question ethically if that's the right thing to do. Like this is- She put her hand on a thing and it was just like lol doh parents. Okay. Yeah. What does this tell us about Ray really and what she's going to do? Hmm. You wanna doesn't mean that he didn't- Oh sorry I think I went too far. An expected bond. If they can res- Still gone too far. I must have clicked something. Oh there we go. I'm not sure I'm missing anything. That she has to determine who she is completely by herself. Kylo Ren is in a similar position. They've both been failed by the light and dark sides of the force and have to find a new path forward. How has Ray been failed? How has Kylo been- How has Kylo been failed? Because Luke attacked him it is it is sleep or whatever. This means he was justified in murdering innocent people. But here's the thing. If that's what he's going for here if Kylo- If he's saying Kylo was failed by the light side because Luke tried to kill him and in the same time this is the exact same film where the force doesn't belong to the Jedi then the light side didn't fail Kylo. So which one is it? You can't- That's contradictory to what Luke says in this- In this movie. You can't say that. That doesn't make any sense. And how the hell was Ray failed? Just this pity party. Like they've both been failed. Like no they haven't. Shut up. No. If anything the force is like the best thing that ever happened to her. Yeah at least they they get to live easier lives than most people. They get you know sitting watching TV you can't reach the controller. Guess what? The force. Force powers. Imagine when they start giving them like force cooking powers where you can just you can just flick your finger and boom hot pizza. Oh man if I could just no I don't need to attempt myself for that kind of power. We would be- We would get ourselves in trouble that way. Think of all the pieces Wolf would make. Oh and end of days. And in that way have an unexpected bond. If they can resolve their differences this could finally- The bond comes from nowhere. It's part of my huge issue with her. She has like a big problem with him for having killed the person that she has a father figure connection to. And then like two scenes later she's like oh Luke was a dick to you. Wow we share so much. Yeah if anything- No. And that's already that's already built on the fact that she has no reason to see Han Solo's a father figure anyway. But if you have- There's no- This isn't how normal people are. If you killed Han Solo in front of me like you're fucking dead. All right I'm not going to be your friend. We're mortal enemies. I don't give a shit about your sob story. You're a fucked psychopathic murderer. We're not friends. We're not going to be friends. I want to highlight by the way this incredibly romantic scene. That gave Major Lee big bonus. Oh no the big boner. This was it man. The force boner. This was it. Forreston had to find a new path forward and in that way have an unexpected bond. If they can resolve their differences this could finally lead to real balance in the force. If only Hitler and Churchill could resolve their difference. If they- If they were to Ragon style but remain Jedi and Sith then the force balances out. Is that what he's saying? But the Sith person would go around and keep doing evil stuff and make an evil empire and blow up the- No it's- It would be a bad thing to just be like okay I guess we're just gonna allow that. It's like no you have a moral imperative to stop it. He would reinvent the Sith. He would be like I'm gonna be a Sith but I'm not gonna hurt anyone. Okay? And raise like I'm gonna be a Jedi but I'm not gonna protect anyone. Balance. I guess. I don't understand how any of this works. I don't either. I think JJ Abrams set up. This is supposed to be a guide to the last Jedi. You have cheated me sir. Just because you didn't get the answer you wanted doesn't mean that he didn't use those elements. Which answer did I want? Tell me. Because is he aware that Palpatine is supposed to be her grandfather in the new film? Doesn't that fuck everything up on this portion? Is that getting what we want? Somebody wanted that I suppose. I just wanted more information because I didn't understand how it worked. JJ Abrams set up but just because you didn't get the answer you wanted doesn't mean that he didn't use those elements. Instead of going for fan service and making her Obi-Wan's granddaughter he took the threads from the Force Awakens and used them to challenge the characters as much as possible until a far more interesting story. Oh this is him challenging the characters as much as possible? That is that is interesting. It's much more interesting okay. Oh okay. Yeah this is fucking fascinating. It's really fascinating to just have two completely blank slates essentially just wibbling and wobbling. We're dealing with like the shittiest characters across the entire saga and he's like it's the most interesting like look what a dog does. No it's like oh my god. This is bomb tier. This is so pathetic. And the one challenged most of all was... Oh no here we go. You ready for this ride? It's gonna be great. Here we go. Before even getting into Luke's character Ryan Johnson did not decide to make him a broken hermit. Neither did JJ Abrams. George Lucas did. Fuck off! Why what? So what happened to Cannon? So already we've gone on just this complete just total we've split off to like oh yeah well it was George Lucas. Yeah George Lucas didn't do it. He sold the rights off to it. We already had this long stupid discussion about Cannon. Why are we even going down this road? It doesn't matter who decided it. It's fucking dumb. Just because Lucas says it doesn't mean it's a great idea. I also love that we've had all these different things come out about how Lucas was ignored when they made the sequel trilogy. How he was upset by this and how Bob Iger said like he was definitely not happy with how the direction they went. I guarantee you he's probably gonna cite something from his original plans and I guarantee you he's just gonna be vague. The idea will be to just try and make them light up as much as possible without going anywhere near the specifics. It's all George's fault. Who said this before? Wasn't there someone else who blamed George rather than JJ or Ryan? I'm pretty sure we covered someone who said that before. Yeah, I could I could. I know what you're talking about. So many molar rages in chat. It's this is all George Lucas' fault not the like directors of the film and stuff. Well, the writers. No, it's not the writers. I can't remember. I can't remember. Story treatments apparently had Lou Kermit at the way at the original Jedi temple with a female student seeking him out and forcing him to overcome his depression. Boy, that sounds an awful lot like the last. What does this even achieve? That doesn't make it any less shit. What would this achieve if it were true anyway? If we just said okay, then what point has been made? It's not like George Lucas has ever made anything related to Star Wars that fans didn't enjoy. Oh, yeah. He's just the fucking paragon of wise decision made. Oh, God, I said he worked, but he's not a. Bad ideas can come from everywhere, especially George Lucas. The Jedi. Lucas even approved concept art for the setting during the transition to Disney. And? It's often argued that Luke never should have ended up in this position because he was always hopeful and upbeat, but that's only one side of his character. Just isn't fair. Oh, big this ride. I'm never going to get out of here. If there's a bride sitting here. If only he grew from that. If only he grew from this point. I like this scene from the end of the OT. This this wasn't. Oh, you've just said they blame George RR Martin for season eight of Game of Thrones. Oh, that was it. Yeah, that was it. That was it. Good times. So this works. But also it's like if someone completely reverses their arc and we have no context for it, you can't use the defense of, oh, yeah, well, when we first met them, when before they had learned and grown from everything, see, you do hear the argument every once in a while, that Luke is a little bit whiny in a new hope. And it's like, yes, because he's still growing up. Yeah. Universe, you're on the planet that is farthest from. Where are you going? It's like I'm going nowhere. Can't believe he's gone. Oh, imagine being sorrowful that someone you cared about died. What was that supporting? Yeah. What does that mean? Okay. It's weird that you would think that that would lead him down a dark path. Okay. Here. If it'd be more fucked up and he didn't show anything bad about it. Moving here. We're wasting our time. The boy has no patience. We'll never get it out now. Always with you. It cannot be done. I can't. You want the impossible. I can't do it or do it. You can't go on alone. I can't go on alone. How is, sorry. How is him saying I can't go on alone? Used as evidence for him becoming a hermit alone, stranded on a planet. I like that he's played the clip of him saying I have a danger of the mission by coming. It's like, yes, he did. Vader said to him on the ship, which confirmed it was definitely not. I remember the guy says, the codes checked out. I was about to let them go. Do you want me to like not do that? The Vader's like, no, because he wants to use it as a trap. So like, yes, Luke did fuck it up by coming on there. Like, I don't understand. What is this supporting? You're losing me. I shouldn't have come. I have no memory of my mother. I never knew her. Whoa, what is that supposed to be? What are these quotes supposed to be all in favor of? Yeah. I don't understand anymore. Then my father is truly dead. Soon I'll be dead. And you with me. He was certain that Vader was still a good guy. There is still good in him. There is good in him. I felt it. And nearly killed him in a fit of hateful rage. Luke isn't always who he wants him to be, and that's why he works as a protagonist. Some fans wanted his challenges to be over. They wanted, if you can believe it, fan service. Fan service, that makes sense. It's fan service for a character to behave as we understand them. I've heard that argument many times, too. Yeah, I guess. Yeah. If characters behave in a satisfying way, but in a way that makes total and complete sense, I fail to see what the problem is. And a lot of, it's always, in fairness, this argument works on a lot of people, but the context is always forgotten. Why did Luke attack Vader like he did? Was it because Vader was sleeping in a bed, and he hadn't done anything previously? Right, I don't, I don't think that was the case. Was it that Vader was already a mass murdering, like, psycho in the universe, and then he threatened to kill his sister after saying that if he can't get Luke to essentially be corrupted, that's who he'd go after next? I can't remember. Was he threatening people Luke loved, or was he sleeping in bed? I mean, there's no real point in trying to establish which one it was, because those two situations are essentially the same thing. Luke igniting his lightsaber over someone who's, as far as we know, been a student that's been well-behaved. Yeah, it was real. Because he sensed a bad dream. I can't believe people still cite, hey, he attacked Darth Vader. He fucking tried to kill Darth Vader, so it's okay that he does this. Same thing. I just, don't forget this shit when people make this argument, they just hope that you forget this. That is, it's insane, like this is- That's the fan service. Posting a picture where Han and Luke are in the same scene is now fan service. Wouldn't you expect that to be- It would have been nice to have seen them because they're friends, and they've got a long history. That's why we want to see them together. Imagine best friends hanging out. What a crazy idea. This isn't the same as having predator and Batman hang out, okay? Like, we just go, just make that happen. It's like, no, we feel something, but we see these characters together. We're like, oh my God, the fucking history. I hate to bring in Buffy all the time, but, well, if you're back, right? Yeah. Remember- Sorry, I had to go feed Hugh Catman. Why does- Do you not see, at the end of the last episode of Buffy, where they all just stand next to each other? They don't even need to say anything, and it's super meaningful. Isn't it because it's just fan service? It's- it could be a fan service scene, sure, but the reason why it's meaningful is because we have seven seasons to back that up. That one scene makes the whole show worth watching. I mean, there's a million reasons why that show is worth watching, but that one kind of solidified why I love it so much. He pulled out the classic. Luke tried to kill Vader, therefore Luke is flawed. Yeah, I heard. Yeah, I was still listening to it. It's just wonderful. It's the stuff we've heard before. I don't know why this would have changed anyone's minds. We've- we've addressed this one, like, what? I want to say, like, five times on EFAP at this point. Tagonist. Oh, it's ridiculous. Some fans wanted his challenges to be over. They wanted, if you can believe it, fans- It's a challenge. What about if Luke was this monolithic trainer and he was going to try and lead the Jedi to a position where they were just, like, overseers and they tried to keep the peace, and then Leia asks him to use them to start destroying any remaining Empire settlements? And Han, like- Yeah, exactly. Han leaves Leia because the fact that she's become, like, too strong-willed in that sort of thing, and it's all enforced by the fact that she lost everyone. Yeah, Alderaan. Yeah, she lost Alderaan, so she knows the pain that comes with that. It's something that very, very few people could ever know, and so she carries that with her and uses that as the justification for, yeah, we need to do these things because we can't afford another Alderaan. It can't happen. No matter what. I don't know the- Can you find a fan who wanted Luke to come back and face Zero Challenge? I don't- We always talk about- I'm a tiny man. Yeah, we always talk about how everybody has every take, but I don't know if you can find that person very easily. Everybody that we cover who defends the last Jedi, like, they have to rely on these stupid straw men. Kick a god? Service. To see the characters exactly as we saw them before, doing what we saw before, just- We just put- Why wouldn't they want to hang out with each other? They're fucking friends! But no, we find out that because of Luke, Han and Leia lost their son, and it wouldn't matter anyway, because those two have separated, like, the universe is apart, because of a horrible marriage they had. We didn't get to see any of this. We just told, this is what happened, and this is why they won't see each other now. It was like, oh. Gotta tell you, like, like, the biggest Heart String pull, probably in, um, TLJ, I think we've talked about this before, was either Luke being in the same fucking room as R2D2 or Leia, just that alone. It was like, oh my god. It's a droplet of water in the desert, seeing these characters that are supposed to be of such great connection, actually having a chance to show that they still care about each other. It's the only thing that, in The Last Jedi, I feel like the only thing that Luke does that shows he gives a shit about a sister is giving her... His ex-girlfriend's necklace. His ex-girlfriend's necklace. Yeah, his husband's ex-girlfriend's necklace. That's the only thing Luke seems to do that shows he gives a shit about, like, his friends. I feel like that would be counterintuitive, if anything, that shows that Luke doesn't really give much of a shit he's giving his sister her husband. He's like, Han really cared about her. Well, if you remember, even Major Lee, even Major Lee conceded that. He was like, oh, well, yeah, that's kind of who. And you have this moment, I want someone to make that video, I say, when they go, Luke gave the ex-girlfriend of Han Solo's dice to Leia because he is flawed, and he didn't understand. He tried to attack Vader. He's flawed, okay? It makes sense. No one ever told him the context of the dice. She explains it to him, he goes, oh, shit, sorry. Even if he didn't have the context of the dice, why would he give them to her? Well, people say it's a memento of Han, that's all they say, but she leaves it on the floor anyway. Yeah, because it's a visit dice. Oh, this is, oh, this is a cursed gift. As Luke's walking away, she's just giving him the finger the whole time. She's just shaking his head as like, two. Kylo walks in and picks him up, doesn't he? Like, in the film, I wonder if he's like, why is my dad's ex-girlfriend's dice on the floor? Like, what the fuck? Like, this is, this is the dice, this is why they broke up in the first place. How is it here? One day Leia was like, when she was cleaning out his, you know, eye is covered or something, it was like, Han, what's this? And he's like, oh, shit. I used them to win the Millennium Falcon, and she believes it. And then she asked Lando about it. He's like, oh, they used to belong to his ex-girlfriend. Oh, shit. Man, if you could see the way that Han lifted her for whatever reason, it was something else. I'm choosing to believe in my own headcanon that is legitimately the reason why they broke up. And the thing is, it's not unreasonable. Like, that could actually be why. Yeah, because it's like, why, Han, why did you keep these forever? I just miss Kira. Oh, my God. And then I'd be like, why? Just, you know, older. That didn't exactly work out for Indiana Jones. Oh, it was bad at Indiana Jones. Therefore it can't work. Yeah, the problem with Indiana Jones was because he was older. Yeah, that's exactly why that movie was terrible. Yeah, the Marion was there and she was older. That's why Indiana Jones sucked. Everyone made videos about how they were old. Old is bad. What the hell? Someone says here that Wolf Rags and Mueller are on a stream together. That's just fan service for the eFap fans. Yeah. You don't make any sense that we're together. It should have been, we should all be acting out of characters. That's the way to do it. That's what I've learned. We saw them before doing what we saw before. Just, you know, older. That didn't exactly work out for Indiana Jones. Reunions are inherently disappointing, aren't they? I mean, your old TV show, they go, oh boy, they're coming back after 20 years. You really want to cite Mark Hamill on this? You want to know what else he said about TLJ? You're going to cite that too? Yeah, I didn't think so. I can guarantee you won't cite anything. Also, he's also talked about Canto Byte. Halfway through, it's Canto Byte. Justify Canto Byte. I would kind of like him, like for him to talk about the last Jedi habit, kind of. Well, he's bouncing between um, he did Kylo's character. Oh yeah, this other thing. He did the Force. He's kind of doing Luke right now. He's, there's a couple things. It's a guide to the last Jedi rag. It's not, it's not like the last Jedi analyzed. It's a guide. I don't feel like I'm being guided anywhere, except into being wrong. I'm guided into oblivion. And it goes against the mythology the series is based on. And what all the myths have to deal with is transformation of consciousness. Because if Luke isn't a coward, he's not transformed in any way, shape or form. He's not challenged in any way or shape or form. He would just be. Yep. That's another straw man we constantly deal with. Everybody wants Luke to be super powerful. They want him to teleport into Crate and destroy all the 8080s. They wanted to just be a monolithic superhero that fades into the air after he saved everyone's lives. It's like, no. We don't want him to be an action hero. If he anything, he becomes more Yoda-like. More like, you know. Yeah, and I wanted to deal with like complicated philosophical questions about the position of the good guys in the galaxy. This is so easy to make that tough. If anything, he's the one offering wisdom and guidance, not having some young random chick teach him a lesson. Oh, don't remind me. That you're thinking in this way and you have now to think in that way. If you look at at the beginning of the hero's journey, like with King Arthur, people... It's like a tear above. I don't know if we think about Karl Marx. All right. So Arthur's character does not begin with him pulling the sword from the stone. If you say that, then you don't know the story. It's Ryan Johnson. So of course, that's where it begins. I was trying to tell Mahler the other day how Ryan Johnson has an extremely punchable-looking face. And I know that there's an actual scientific term for this, but I can't remember it. So someone in the chat tell me what the scientific term is for me wanting to punch Ryan Johnson in the face. All right. I'm excited now. Is it Sol Varsion? No, I'm pretty sure that's just the Tism version of Subversion. All right. Any second now. Dothucci, is that it? No, no. I know that I know that there's a scientific term for someone who has a punchable face. I've read it somewhere. Why am I asking the chat? I can just Google it. What the fuck? I mean, I was going to suggest that, but I thought maybe we're not going to Google anything. Oh, Google's on. He can't just Google things. Word for punchable face. The Tim is the last Jedi. Oh, my God. How do you pronounce that? Post it. Oh, OK. So it's a German word, and it means a face that should be slapped. Should be, like, morally should be slapped. Yeah. So I'm going to try my best to sound this out. Back for fieflinggeist. Fieflinggeist. There you go. OK. Done. Nailed it. There we go. There's a sword from the stone. He's ascended, and if it then goes past that and deals with the hero's life as they get into middle age and beyond, it gets into darker places. It gets dark, man. There's a reason for that. It's because myths are not made to sell action figures. That is just fucking wrong. Well, it depends on why you make the myth. You can absolutely make a myth that's designed to sell shit. Isn't that what Star Wars is? Technically, you could actually argue that. George Lucas would definitely disagree that you can't make a myth to sell action figures. And also the idea that like. You're moving in Star Wars and you're actually trying to say this, Ryan. I like that he's like, it has to go dark. He's like, yeah, because when you get older, man, you know, fuck. He's like, what? Why? There are no old people who like, just OK. Like they didn't make it. They all just went dark. Fuck it. Oh, someone actually pronounced it. Back. Faith. Again. Shit. You ain't shit. Back. If you get shit. Back. Faith. She. A shalt. That's what someone else said. Back. We need metal. Metal would do it for you. Yeah. Oh, yeah. If metal can maybe do that and like scream it in a really angry German way, then it'll make sense. Yes, we will have it translated. It's because like the idea in the chat. Ra, this can't make a myth to sell action figures. And then you remember that like Scientology exists. He's like, OK, sure, Ryan, you definitely can't. Myths are not. This is going to be my last time on eFap. I want you to just send him a super chat saying something racist just to entertain me. To sell action figures. Myths are made to reflect the most difficult transitions we go through in life. Yeah. Maybe the biggest hand. Why does why does everybody who's old have to go through dark transitions? Since when was that a rule? I find this fascinating. If anything, they've settled into something in their heart to budge. Why is it? Does everyone go on the hero's journey? Is that is that kind of the argument here as well? Like why can't we have loads of different kinds of stories? Did Obi-Wan go on a dark journey once he got old? His strength of the serial format is seeing how history unfolds and how the characters evolve into different roles over time. It's not disrespectful to a character to deny them a happy ending. It's disrespect not about a happy ending, about him behaving as he was slash is until he's faced with horrible circumstances that changes ideals or at least alter his approach to different scenarios. You can't just have it be that it's changed. And it's like, well, he's 30 years older, man. What do you mean? You saw the flashback, didn't you? It makes sense to parade them around for nostalgia's sake without moving them forward. As if Tiel didn't do that. I put the word into Google Translate and it says a faced in need of a fist. Backfifing gesicht. Yeah, backfifing gesicht. Yeah. Okay. Backfifing gesicht. It just rolls right off the tongue. Which one of us can do a really angry German accent? Let's not find out. They already think we're Nazi's wolf. Let's not give them ammo. I am German though. Well, my family's German. I did a shocked breathe in while Braggs belched. If we were right next to each other as our portraits imply, that could have been bad. I wouldn't have burped on anyone's face. Anyway, he just check this bit out. Maybe the biggest strength of the serial format is seeing how history unfolds and how the characters evolve into different roles over time. It's not disrespectful to a character to deny them a happy ending. It's disrespectful to parade them around for nostalgia's sake without moving them forward. Um, what? So C3PO R2-D2 and the bar guys in Rogue One appear for a collective of the four characters for I want to say about 20 seconds. Parading them around without having them grow. What growth are they supposed to experience in 20 seconds? They call this epic journey. Tell me what moving forward means in this context. Do you mean like changing into something completely different? Like has this guy ever been around old people before? That's not generally what they're known for? You know, they're completely different from how they were 30 years prior. That's usually how it works. You can grow and learn and change. Yeah, sure, obviously. That doesn't mean becoming a completely different person contrary to everything that you've shown and you've done before. But those aren't the same thing. We don't, we don't have a problem with Luke undergoing some kind of change. Obviously between episode three, or sorry, episode six and seven and eight, there would be a change. A lot of time passes by. But becoming a completely different person is not what we're looking for. Of course, he's done the thing again. If you're going to do that, you really have to adjust. You're going to have to really justify that. He's implied that it's what we got or it's disrespectful and that he's just going to have a happy ending and he's going to be super powerful. It's like, why, why are these our two options? I don't understand. And yeah, just referencing Rogue One like that makes no sense at all. These characters were barely in the film. Part of the reason the character's never had that happy read- Why the fuck would Leia go on a significant change several minutes before the events of A New Hope? That makes no sense at all. Union is that Harrison Ford didn't want to be an empty cameo. Harrison has always said. Oh, well, we got one. Well, they did worse than that. They made him shit. Yeah, they not only... Yeah, they just completely reversed everything that he had become. And he was, oh, sorry, sorry, poor, poor Harrison. Hey, man, he went back to what he do, smuggling incompetently. And now he makes movies where he plays around with CGI dogs. Hey, man, that's an auteur right there. What he was doing with Star Wars was just lame. Knew that Han needed to have clear utility. In this case, there was such clear utility. Han's death in The Force Awakens was totally in the service of that film's plot. It wasn't about Han. It was about the new characters. Oh, I hate this. So fucking fun. Of our issue is that all of the classic characters are killed in order for the new ones to do stuff. I'm sorry, but it looks like Kylo's wearing a dress in this plot. It does. He looks like, you know, with just a second here. Let me take that. Let me copy it. Let me slap that on paint. It looks like he's just like defiantly standing up against his dad saying, I'm trans dad. Use my correct pronouns. Why did Snag Prophet say Mola? He's literally a smuggler in TFA again. That's what I said. Yeah. Well, I said he's an incompetent smuggler. My point is that they made him go back to what he knew, but also be bad at it. To the point where they have a character say that there's no one in the universe left for him to swindle. Or galaxy, sorry. Meaning that he's fucked up with so many people that he can't even operate anymore. The Han, we knew everyone. Sith commit more than 50% of Force Chokes despite being only 13% of Force users. I thought that was from Ra for a second, but weirdly enough, it wasn't. Yeah, I know. Just a simple little photo shop. He has become Father Ben. What's the little white square? That's the collar. The white square? Yeah. Yeah. Have you never seen a priest before? Well, I don't remember seeing a just white square. All right. Let me just understand the necklace that the cross on it comes up with a 2011 vision. But if you never, you don't know the whole white collar thing that priests have? Well, I guess maybe a collar or something. Maybe if I saw the, oh, okay, I see. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I think it just looked weird with the photo shop part. You remember Priestly 2011? Remember that? The one where they fought like CGI vampires? Yeah. Yeah, I remember that. The critics gave it 15%. I don't remember if it was good or not. I can't remember either. Only 46% of people liked it, but it had vision in it. Instinct tells me it wasn't good, but I haven't watched it yet. A trans dyad. A trans dyad. Oh my goodness. I just realized, by the way, with three and a half, well, nearly four hours in and we're only this far into the video. In true EFAP fashion. This one sounds hard to wear on me. It's like every time he says something, it's like, that's either... Someone called him Father Ren. Father Ren. Clear utility. In this case, there was such clear utility. Han's death and the Force Awakens was totally in the service of that film's plot. Han was killed in order to have another character do something else, because Han doesn't matter. We took away everything that made Han Han, so some fucking emo kid could stab him. And throw him off the cliff. Like, okay. Yeah. Like, alright. Thanks. How could anyone predict this when this... Of course no one could predict this. This is some bizarre story that happened 30 years later where his son killed him. You're like, someone might have, I don't know, but there's no reason to... Why would you even say that? I didn't see this coming until this scene started and he went up on the bridge and I was like, oh, he's gonna die here. Most people, yeah, he's dead now. No one would have predicted that his story would end this way, because these elements weren't even on the table back then. People even pointed out that, someone pointed out that Kylo Ren's weapon is a giant Red Cross, too. Oh yeah, we've been the Baptiste joke before, right, Rags? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even when Han was introduced in The Force Awakens, he would never have seen it coming. What do you mean we... What does this mean? What do you mean? He said even when Han is introduced, you never would have seen the scene with him and Kylo coming. Like, okay. What is your point? Alright. Is he advocating because like, oh, look, it seems like fan service, but it turns out it's not. He gets killed. Okay, sure. What just happened? What the fuck was that? Yeah, I don't know what that was. Is that a joke? Oh, was the joke that he walks in, and then like a pipe bursts and kills him, and then everyone's upset? Something Ryan Johnson would unironically do. Oh yeah, yeah. On the other hand, has an ending that not only serves this story, but his character as a whole. Not quite, but go on. After beginning a new Jedi Temple, he began to lose Ben to the Dark Side. You were like, that's the- No, he didn't. You just say this. He had a bad dream once, and it was chop chop time. I thought, I thought the force failed Ben. Like losing Ben to the Dark Side. What do you mean? We don't know anything about this. The Snoke did it. Based on what Leia says. That's why I wanted him to train with Luke. Luke must have known the danger from the beginning, and would have been- Yeah, that didn't work. Apparently because Luke's a psychopath. Like why would you- Oh, I love the idea that Leia's like, you need to train with Luke in order to be a good one. Then on the first night, Luke tries to kill him. He's like, can we get a different dude for this? Been trying everything he could to prevent it up until that point. What do you mean? How do you know that? And it was beyond what I ever imagined. With all else failed. He just established that Luke tried everything. Anybody got a reference for that? Pull in a full silence, you. How did Luke fail Kylo? No, he just says that Luke tried every- I'll just play it again. Luke's been to the dark side. Based on what Leia says. Luke must have known the danger from the beginning, and would have been trying everything he could to prevent it up until that point. How does he know that? It sounds like all we got was Luke since he had a bad dream and tried to murder him. Where did he get this from? I tried everything. It's like, what do you mean? Where did- Where is he pulling these from? What scene or line? He's playing a line from Luke saying it was worse than I could have imagined. It's like, that's not following on from what you've just said as a- as a truth. You've gotten this from nowhere. It was worse than Vader. Worse than Palpatine. I don't understand how any of it works. Luke is faced with the choice of killing him to prevent history from repeating. And this is where I think the film lost people forever. Yes. And all of the other potential options in addition to that. He's like, hey, I know- I know- Look, I've been kind of sensing some stuff with you. You want to talk about it? Do you want to have a- Back and forth? Do you want to chat? Like, you're not the only one this happens to. It's okay. You know, we're here for you. We're here to support you. He's like, I guess that was just fucking off the table. Couldn't have been done. No, he tried that already, right? He tried it already. He tried everything. This was the last result. Oh, oh, okay. Yeah, rip. People say this scene destroys Luke's character because he was always trying to save his friends. But that's exactly what this moment is about. I'd like to point out that chat has said that Kylo Ren fought off a black man with a burning cross, which is not untrue. So guys, don't you get it, right? So you know how Luke likes to save his friends? Well, Kylo is going to kill him. And that's what he saw in his brain. And so him attacking Kylo is him defending his friends. Gotcha. What are you going to do now? Yeah, um, oh, wow. Oh boy. That's interesting. That is an interesting interpretation. Oh, fuck, do you know that? You looked at his head and just decided, didn't Yoda teach Luke that the future is like always changing? It's always as potential. You don't actually know what's going to happen. I guess you just decided that killing Kylo was the decision to make. Like, man, like I would have, I don't know. I feel like there would have been a lot of stuff I did up to, you know, killing my best friend's son in his sleep. Wouldn't have started off with that one. Can you get it, though, Rags? He made a mistake by not killing him because Kylo then killed all of his students. Oh my God. Everything I love because of what he will become. Had he gone through with it, he could have saved his Jedi and everyone else Kylo ran killed, but Luke didn't go through with it because it's not in his character. It's Luke doing this that eventually causes all that stuff to happen anyway because this is what turned Kylo. Didn't, I keep coming back to that statement he made earlier. Didn't you say that Kylo was failed? Like, it's not like as if it's not his fault. Like Luke failed Kylo. Isn't that how Luke even phrases it? And Luke certainly doesn't seem remorseful in any way. If it is true that Luke failed Kylo, then he sure doesn't seem to give a fuck when he actually taught when his hologram talks to Kylo. Yeah, and that's the thing. If you're going to argue that, like, you see Luke's main drive was protecting his friends and his choice to spare his family in order to not save his friend, like why would he then exile himself? Wouldn't he get super involved? He'd be like, oh shit, Kylo's pissed at me now and he's actually gonna go kill people. I gotta do something instead of being like, I gotta run away, fuck. Totally in line. It passed like a fleeting shadow and I was left with shame. Once again, he falters before ultimately doing the right thing. Stop! Using that as an excuse. What do you mean doing the right thing? He fucks off. Like, sparing Kylo is the right thing. I thought he just said he wasn't the right thing because everybody dies. I'm confused. My wires across help. I didn't force Kylo to do this on his own. Like, you'd think that Luke and everybody else would stop this one student, but I guess not. He was super powerful. Remember, he's the counterbalance to Luke, even though Snoke exists and Palpatine exists. That's why he's powerful. It makes sense. Oh. Man, if only some force ghosts could help with their lightning powers, just zap Kylo, save a whole bunch of lives. Oh, like, you can't... There's too much having a cake and eating it in this whole thing. Like, you gotta pick one through line. Luke is consistent because he's trying to defend his friends and that's why he chose to potentially kill Kylo, but he fucked up and didn't go through with it. Or Luke was spooked by Kylo's crazy mind and was gonna kill him, but then realized that he wouldn't do it because he's family and that would be bad and so doesn't. Which was the good thing to do. Was it a mistake or not to not kill Kylo? Because I mean... It sounds like... Sounds like at this point maybe it is it was a mistake to not go through with it. All terrible. It's all terrible and it doesn't make sense. Losing his students finally awakens him to the truth that the Jedi were failures. Did he strip away the myth and look at their deeds? The legacy of the Jedi is failure. At the height of their powers, they allowed... Yeah, let's choose so much. I hate this argument so much. Oh, yeah. Well, we... Remember that bad thing happened? Yeah, there was the thousands of years of peace and then there was the bad thing that happened at the end. Which they tried to stop. So let's... Which they tried to stop. Yeah, definitely. There was a war. They fought a whole war. The Clone Wars happened. The Jedi fought in that way. They were literally deceived. And then I like these like... I know that there's a fist controlling everything. His own students being murdered is like an example of the failure of the Jedi as opposed to the Sith that killed them all. The Jedi were failures. That's some bullshit right there. Imagine being a student, like a loving Jedi student who's really interested in helping the world. You get cut down by fucking Darth Kylo over there. And then Luke is like, God, the Jedi suck. Wow, thanks, Dad. Once again, he falters before ultimately doing the right thing. Losing his students finally awakens him to the truth. That the Jedi were failure. I seriously have a problem with that. His students dying awakens him to the truth that the Jedi are failures. That doesn't sit right at all. Like, man. It's like, that's, wow. What a line of reasoning. As Silver just said, if you don't take into account all the good they did, they failed. Well, okay. There's like thousands of years of peace and prosperity, 30 years of bad. Failure. Failure. It's just fascinating that you look at the people trying to stop the bad as the reason the bad succeeded. I don't remember if this is from the movie or from the novelization, but I think Palpatine said something to the effect in episode two that the Republic had been going for 10,000 years or something. Yeah. And Obi-Wan says, for thousands of generations, the Jedi were guardians of peace and justice. Like, oh, damn. Generation's 20 years. So, yeah, that's a long. That's a lot. And as Vito says, losing a war due to unforeseen betrayal means you're morally incorrect is like, that's the idea they're trying to put across. That would be like looking at the Gen Xers and saying humanity is a failure. I'm just bothered by the fact that he's saying that Luke looks at all these dead children slash teenagers, whatever. I don't care how old they are. It doesn't really matter. And concludes the Jedi suck. I just can't believe it. This is Luke Skywalker. Can you imagine him like walking around and like lightly kicking the corpses and being like failure? Come on. He puts it with a stick. Get up. You guys suck. You let Jedi sith win. It ends him to the truth that the Jedi were failures. If you strip away the myth and look at their deeds, the legacy of the Jedi is failure. At the height of their powers, they look at their deeds, trying to defeat bad people. Yeah. Judging them for their results rather than their intentions. Cool. And even then the results still win because 20,000, minimum 20,000 years of peace, 30 years of bad. It's like Luke is like this edgy idiot. It does seem a little bit little upsideed. Luke believed wholeheartedly in an idealized version of them based on a few mere sentences from Obi-Wan and Yoda. This is kind of like when people say the whole humanity must be destroyed because like World War II happened or something. He believed all of Obi-Wan's lies, Rags. That's what it was. Oh. Okay. All right. He assumed that restoring their order would make things right again. Joseph Campbell- It would certainly help. They were good until Snoke fucked it all up. What do you mean? If we leave Snoke unopposed, things will be better for the galaxy. What? They're like, what are you fucking fucking- The person who made this video is retarded. Oh my god. Ugh. I'm tired of this. Stop it. You can't win this argument for like the whole the Jedi is still kind of shit too. It's like they're still- The league's better. Hope that the hero's conflict can't be solved by a return to the good old days. That the rebirth of the old thing will only serve- Why isn't there a set of new Jedi would naturally just be a repeat of the prequels style era? Why would it not be a new set of people with new values, new ideas on how to interpret the Jedi texts? Why can't you work with that? Why do you have to conclude? Nah, that's repeat in the old. We can't do that. Yeah, if we- The idea that the Jedi order will be an exact replica in every way, contextually with the galaxy surrounding it and all of its events and all of the players, that's ridiculous. Didn't he establish that Luke before saving the galaxy says I am a Jedi? Well, he was wrong to be a Jedi. He was an entire bad. He interpreted it bad. He was an idiot. Fucking moron. Can you imagine if instead of like saying I'm a Jedi too, Palpatine, he just like looked down through his lightsaber away and he was like, I'm a failure. I'm a Jedi. No, this isn't what I wanted at all. Palpatine's just like- He doesn't electrocute him because he's just really fucking confused. And besides, like, if we're talking about the lessons he learned from Obi-Wan, what did he learn from the Jedi were guardians of peace in the galaxy? He's like, not a not a terrible, no, not a bad idea. Well, you can't look at that, right? You have to look at, you know, how wrong they were. They let Vader happen, you know? Oh, yeah. They just allowed it. Those fuckers, those bastards, they practically, they were the pillars upon which Palpatine's throne sat. Those- Yoda just allowed it to happen and then said, lol. So we can smoke weed for 20 years. DJ and Voices brings up a good point and he says Christianity isn't practiced the same way it was today as it was 2,000 years ago. It's like, see, there's so many examples of this. Like, do you think the Jedi order is just a spe- if anything, it wouldn't be like it was in the past because Link wasn't alive for it? That would be interesting. Yeah. It'd be really interesting to have all these characters who are trained to be quote unquote Jedi and yet disagree on what it means to be a Jedi. No, that's not a story that's interesting. They all can't change over time. If anything, an organization is just the result of its members. I mean, the religion's the same way. It's just, a religion is what its practice, you know, its practitioners do. Jedi would be the same way. Like, the Jedi order would be whatever the Jedi who are members of it do. Even if they follow it. Like, we need to end all Jedi forever rather than changing it into something he perceives as better. It's like, if anything, this is just a distinction between Luke being completely delusional or him being insanely stupid. Like, how does he think that letting Snoke in the First Order go unopposed by another faction is better? Like, that's nuts. Especially considering he was a hero of the Rebellion. Well, right, preventing him from growing. Well, the rebellion did bad things, so there shouldn't be a rebellion. The rebellion failed in some way, which means just let the Empire have it all. I'm a failure like my father before me. Luke Bow Bag Walker. I'm a failure like my father. I love it. Luke Bow Bag Walker. Perpetuate the cycle. Luke and Leia both tried to resurrect the old thing and it went badly right. How does that not look like Coruscant? Yeah, I know. Then they had to clarify later like, no, no, it's not Coruscant. It's like, why'd you make it look exactly the same? To symbolize the destruction of the prequels. Like, fuck you. That the rebirth of the old thing will only serve to perpetuate the cycle. Luke and Leia both tried to resurrect the old thing and it went badly right away this time. Question. As far as I know, from the canon, the Republic is fine. There's nothing wrong with it in the new ones. It just gets blasted out of the sky by what was the faction again? First order. Who were the first order led by? Was it? It was Jedi, right? Jedi are the ones that Yeah. The failures that other Jedi. Yeah. Yeah. Because from what I hear, the Jedi were just terrible, horrible, no good, very bad. So like, Leia failed because she wanted to keep a military active in order to repel things like a potential second third death star. That's a failure on her part now. That's what he's just said. Like she failed like this this fucked up. And do you know how cool it would have been if TFA was telling the story of how Kylo Ren turned to the dark side and then Luke desperately trying to stop him and then it ends with Star Killer base destroying all those planets and they're like, oh fuck, we need to we need to do something. Can you imagine the millions of ways that the sequel trilogy could have been good? Oh, so many. Can you imagine if George Lucas just didn't sell Star Wars? Sold it to daddy to be a little bit better. Luke has failed before, but the New Republic was fine. They allowed slavery walls. I mean, that's a compared to the empire rule, I guess, but I would actually advocate that's a problem with the film. Wait, what about slavery? The the Republic under the Republic can't abide thrived. So the idea is the slavery is fine, I guess, in what is one of the most like affluent planets in relation to the solar system. Do we know? Well, I don't know how close it is in proximity to like the core worlds because Tatooine just wasn't under the direct jurisdiction of the Republic. Yeah, I know that's out of rim, right? I don't, I'm pretty sure can't abide is not on the outer rim. But well, let's this is not, but hang on, just because they allowed slavery to be conducted on Kanto bite, that does not mean that we should then be like, yeah, the first order, that's better. The ones that blow up five planets. So Canton, so Kanto bites the city. The planet is, it's a desert planet, actually, Cantonica. Let me see. It's the cap was the capital city on Cantonica. Largest artificial ocean in the galaxy. It was where is next to the sea of Cantonica. Let's see. I'm trying to find out. What a very. It's on the outer rim. Oh, on that case. Yeah. That means we're set then because that means that doesn't happen under the Republic, but still slave child seems to think that they he will be helped despite being on the outer rim if the Republic are reinstated after the first order. Yeah. If anything, this just shows that this changes, they allowed it to, they couldn't stop it. I hope that there's an after credit scene and rise the Skywalker where slave child's like in his 30s, he's still a slave. And he keep, he keeps looking at the ring and then he throws it to the ground and like hangs himself. He pisses on it. He's like a piece of shit ring. Yeah. The interesting part, I guess, would be that there's so much trade happening for Kanto bite involving the resistance at the first order. It surprises me that it's on the outer rim, but okay. I don't. Yeah. And apparently, I mean, they act like so to the people from, so the people from Kanto bite, they're the ones selling all the equipment and everything to both sides, at least to some degree. So I'm thinking, like, so the Republic can go there because they're buying stuff from them. Maybe they don't go there. All sales are done electronically. Maybe you download a spaceship. It's like, actually, I would. I guess I would get it 3D printed. But this time, it's not just him paying the price. The entire galaxy is suffering the result of his actions. He. Uh, sorry. Let me, let me roll him back to make sure we know he's talking about. It can't be solved by a return to the good old days that the rebirth of the old thing will only serve to perpetuate the cycle. Luke and Leia both tried to resurrect the old thing and it went badly right away this time. Luke has failed before. That doesn't mean that trying to resurrect good things is always a doomed thing you should never try. It's not even accurate. Like that's ridiculous. Leia didn't, Leia's failure was not convincing the resistance to keep a military for some reason. Or like a one that was prepared to take out a Death Star. I guess they just decided they didn't want to. How is that her failure? If anything, based on the, based on like how like the books and all the information that was never in any of the movies, Leia was one of the few people who split off from the Senate Republic whatever to try and keep away the First Order and to fight them. She didn't want to allow them to basically exist out there because she was like, Oh, they're going to grow in power and they'll attack us one day. And then you scan over to Luke. Essentially two factions. You're saying Luke, resistance in the Republic. You're saying Lucas is failure is to try and restart the good or whatever. And the obvious results were that is one of his students would be converted by the dark side and kill all of his students. That is his failure? Or is it the fact that he tried to kill him in his sleep? That's what turned Kylo to the dark side. Was it, was it Snoke? Was it that? Was it both? If in which case, how could it possibly be considered only Luke's failure? Like I just, I'll agree that it was certainly Luke's failure to just run off to an island while all of his friends are being killed. You got me there. He assumed that restoring their order would make things right again. Joseph Campbell wrote that the hero's conflict can't be solved by a return to the good old days. That the rebirth of the old thing will only serve to perpetuate the cycle. This guy said we can't do X. Though we can't do X because this guy said so. What if, right? What if that's bullshit? You just said about Joseph fucking Campbell raggers. Yeah, I forgot that there are certain people who are always correct about everything always and they are 100% true. What if, bear with me, what if he didn't think everything through? What if you could go back to the new, er, the old, change it to make it better to account for a new time and new individuals carry on for as long as you can. And then things are hunky-dory. No, he said no. Stop it. TLJ. That's what happens. I don't give a fraction of a fuck about what Joseph fucking Campbell has to say. Well, let's take it. Here's an example, right? Let's take France. All right, so 1930s and everything. France is a country and it's got culture and people. Things are great. And the Nazis invaded. France is a country. Yeah, so France is invaded by Germany and World War II and their government is replaced and it's toppled. The Nazis are now in control of France. The Nazis are occupying France. After that war, imagine if we're using this logic, right? It's like, well, establishing a democracy in France. It's like, that just led to the rise of, you know, the Nazis in Germany and they got conquered because of it. We can't pot. It would be foolish of us to restore a democracy in France. We know what that leads us to. I mean, you know what I guarantee is that he probably has way more to develop about this point. Like, I doubt it's as vague as you can't bring back the old. Like, because that seems to be covering too broadly of what you could actually do. But the idea that it's taking Joseph Campbell out of context, apparently. That surprised me. But the thing I was going to say was that the dichotomy that's being presented is that we end up with this crazy world where it's just the same as the old stuff or we get the correct answer, which is TLJ. It's like, there's no in between. There's no variation. That's just it. And Campbell said it, so. Cool. Luke and Leia both tried to resurrect the old thing and it went badly right away this time. Luke has failed before, but this time it's not just him paying the price. The entire galaxy is suffering the result of his actions. He comes to see that maybe getting all these light side users together invites the dark side to destroy them. That the Jedi Order was a fatally flawed idea. I'm almost speechless. Don't even try and build up a team of good people because bad people will come and destroy them. It's like, it's the idea. This is insane. We're probably spending, we're probably dwelling on this point too long. It's just that it's so bad shit. Yeah. It's so nuts. Letting it die out will cause the force to find a new way that may succeed where the Jedi failed. That's insane. What do you mean? Think of that risk. Thousands and thousands of years of peace, 30 years of bad. You know what? Let's not take that again. Let's just fucking roll the dice and see what we get. See what the force comes up with? Are they just sitting around for ages like force? You got anything? Because they're schmooble bligh. They're like Jedi, but less monolithic. More like they're more interested in playing like chess. They're like hippie Jedi. Yeah. They don't have rules, man. They don't have lights, do they? The light dies as vanity. Can you feel that? Luke knows his allies won't accept his decision, which is why he leaves them. He's not giving up on- What? What? He already gave up on them. He knows his allies won't accept his decision to like destroy the Jedi, so he leaves them. This is your canon. This is how you explain why Luke left Leia and Han and the worlds to the devices of the First Order because they wouldn't accept that he wants the Jedi to end. You fucking crazy. Oh my goodness. What is brain? Sounds so beyond petty. I want the Jedi to end. Well, I don't know if that's a good idea. Well, fuck you. I'll go to walk too. Bye. Okay. I wish you'd help us rebuild the Jedi. If anything, even if you don't call it the Jedi Order, don't you think that like, because there are four sensitive people out there, clearly you know this, don't you think it's a good idea to Jedi or not? Like offer them guidance, keep them from becoming Sith. It just seemed to lose any sense of like a moral position in the world. Like you just felt like nah, just let it be as it be. All these places, all these people suffering and dying. As the author of this video has just admitted, all these people are suffering because of Luke's mistake. And what does he do? He fucks off. And that's why Mark Hamill was like, Jedi wouldn't give up, Jedi wouldn't just fuck off. And that's why thousands and thousands of fans are like, this movie cannot be canon because it fucks everything up. Luke was hacked. Call them. He's helping them the only way he thinks he can. It's a callback to his failure in Empire Strikes Back, showing that Luke now has the maturity to do the difficult thing and not act on impulse. Kind of sounds like Luke acted on impulse in what he decided. Oh, this is bad. I guess the solution is to just fucking exile myself forever. It also sounded pretty impulsive to go to Krait with the teleport thing. I just like that he's like, he's not gonna be impulsive in trying to help people. I go, oh. Yeah, that'll be awkward if he did that. The new trilogy seems to be heading towards the idea that there needs to be a more permanent solution to the conflict. And this is why I don't agree with the people who say that the new films ruined the return of the Jedi's happy ending. Luke's Jedi order was always doomed to be undone by the cycle of... Why is there the cycle? That's the thing. Why? Even if that's true that the cycle is always repeating, wouldn't you want it to be on the good side for tens of thousands of years before it sways dark for 30? Hold on. Sways dark for 30. To the people in the chat who know the fucking lordisms, prior to the 10,000 years of peace that the Jedi brought, did the Jedi get destroyed by the Sith and then have to remake themselves? I mean, even if that was or wasn't the case, you'd be like, do you think the thousands of years were pretty good? Luke's like, it's not a million, though. Okay, so the Old Republic, the Galactic Republic was the ruling government of the galaxy that existed for more than 25,000 years until its reformation in the first Galactic Empire in 19 BBY. So, yeah, I'll take 25,000 years of a Galactic Republic if it gets me 30 years of bad. That sounds like a pretty good trade. No. That's your opinion. Look, it was doomed to fail. Okay, so apparently 10,000 years, there was like some, the Jedi fail, but there was 10,000 years of Jedi after that. Well, even in the pretty long time. Not enough. The Jedi failing is separate from the Republic because the Republic and the Jedi are two different things. Like they cooperate. Even if it is going to fail again. What? Why can't you reform it? Exactly. Why can't you reform it? And what is our recourse? What is our open- Why do you have to give up? What is our choice instead? Let the bad guys just win. There's no point. If we defeat them, we'll just be defeated again. Like, okay. This seems a little pessimistic, but fine. Showing that Luke now has the maturity to do the difficult thing and not act on impulse. The new trilogy seems to be heading towards the idea that there needs to be a more permanent solution to the conflict. And this is why I don't agree with the people who say that the new films are ruined if return of the Jedi is happy ending. Of course they did. Especially now that you're about to have Palpatine come back and all that shit. It's fucked. Palpatine. Hey, you say Dagobah. What's wrong with Palpatine? What's wrong with Dagobah? Dagobah. Dagobah. And it's Palpatine not Palpatine. Palpatine? Did I not say Palpatine? You said Palpatine. Oh, I must have been leading up to another word. Yeah. Normally I say Palpatine. I must have been a fluke. That wasn't the norm. A fluke Skywalker? It's okay. Fluke Skywalker. Fluke musician. I get it. Luke's Jedi order was always doomed to be undone by the cycle of lighting dark repeating again. So doomed to be undone. Okay, so this like really fucks with free will and everything. And like, so the force is just you're doomed to be... I don't... Is this how the force works? I guess so. The force is just like, it's the good guy's turn. Now it's the bad guy's turn. Now it's the good guy's turn. Now it's the bad guy's turn. Is like, is it just arbitrarily swinging back and forth whenever it wants? Okay. God, how fun. Don't start the Jedi. They're doomed to fail. You got to do something else. You got to wait for the force to decide on something else, something that breaks the cycle. To be undone by the cycle of light and dark repeating again. And that's exactly what Luke is trying to stop. Oh no! This is where theme's become incorrect. He's doing the thing! Oh no. Guys, I'm sorry. We're about to enter the dangerous zone. They all do it. Every single one of them always does it. Themes. This is where themes become incredibly important to the story. Star Wars has always had a lot of general themes. It's all about generations, and it's about the issues of fathers and sons and grandfathers. But the last Jedi gets far more specific and says more than any other movie in the series. Oh boy. Tell me all about it. The first theme is the idea of destruction versus preservation. Obviously old ideas can't work forever and have to be abandoned at some point. But clear burning everything will result in good things being lost. It's why Kylo Ren is the villain. All right, so here's the thing. This is why Kylo Ren is the villain. It's like, no, Kylo Ren should be the villain because of the actions he takes, the events that happened around him, because it is a consequence of the things that occur within his vicinity. He is in a way a product of his environments and those around him. It's not, this is, the theme says, we want this theme, therefore Kylo is the villain. It's like, no, that's the backwards way of creating the story. Like Kylo Ren is a person that exists in this world. He shouldn't be just a slave to whatever the theme is. He should act in a realistic way. And that should be, I mean, whatever. I think I'm at my point. Jedi, the rebels, let it all die. There has to be a balance between old and new and finding that balance is where the conflict lies. Luke's insistence that the Jedi... So there shouldn't be a balance between the old and the new if the old is terrible bad. Like you want to get rid of that. That's the, you want to eradicate evil. You want to get rid of, you know, bad organizations and murderous people. So if we're talking about old in the sense of the Galactic Empire, you don't, no, there's not a balancing act that you want there. You want them gone, erased. Yeah, I mean, I'm not convinced at all that the, what we had is the old is some kind of like, oof, don't want that again. It's like, what? Because it led to someone else being on top eventually. It's like, yeah, yeah. So we need a system that monolithically will survive indefinitely. And it's also good. And we're talking 10,000 years isn't enough. How many people think that they can establish a government and they actually believe that it will last forever? Like it will never change into something else. It will always be as we created it. There will never be anything, a thousand years from now, the United States of America will be similar to what it is now. It's like, that's ridiculous. Like, no, I don't think it, does anyone really believe that? Truly they must be in a minority if they think so. Be lost to history has aligned him with the bad guys in this regard. I did not expect Skywalker to be so wise. The decision to preserve or destroy even plays out in a literal sense with Poe's opening attack. I'm with the droid on this one. Leia is focused on- Okay, so that's fucking retarded because if you don't kill the people who are about to kill you, you're not preserving anything, except the enemies. You're preserving them and not yourself. So that's a great, that's great. I have heard a brand new argument about that opening thing with Poe where, so it goes, Poe fucked everything up by attacking with the bombers, as we know. And then the counter is, no he didn't. He destroyed the Dreadnaught. The Dreadnaught is a fleet killer. It would have fucked up the main ship. They would have all died if he hadn't done that. And then the counter counter is, nope, Snoke's ship is a Dreadnaught. Therefore they would have died anyway, anyway if Poe hadn't done what he did. I don't know where this has come from. Snoke's ship is, I don't know what class it is, probably Supremacy class. It's not a Dreadnaught. It's, yeah, it's unique. One of the things we asked was, how is it that Snoke's ship doesn't have the weaponry to take out the Radis? It just doesn't. It does. Well, according to the film, it doesn't, so. According to the film, it just doesn't. But we know that it fucking does. Like, come on, no one is believing your bullshit movie. We are not believing that. That is absolutely ridiculous. And if you're talking about preservation, then you have to make the decision, do I preserve us, the good people, or do I preserve the enemies trying to eradicate us? It's like, no, you kill your enemies. There's a war. They want to destroy you and all the goodness that you stand for. They've blown up planets. This, what's preservation versus destruction? Destroy the bad people so you can preserve yourself and your way of life. Fuck. Also, small tangent. Jeremy just peered me with, apparently, Ian McDiamond, the actor for Palpatine. Has recalled a conversation he had about Emperor Palpatine with George Lucas before the sequel trilogy hit theaters. The Scottish actor wanted to know if Palpatine was officially dead. According to Lucas, the iconic villain was indeed dead after getting thrown down into the Death Star's reactor by Darth Vader in Return of the Jedi. And exploding. Yes, of course Palpatine died. And then Disney was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. He just exploded. He exploded twice. You'd think that would have done it, wouldn't you? You'd think, oh, there you go. We got old Palpy now. But no. He threw him down the shaft into the reactor and he blew up. And then the Death Star itself blew up. And now he's back. You just see those two explosions that he's just standing there. I'm still waiting for this nightmare that's been everything since Disney took over to like end so I could wake up and be, when did Disney actually buy Star Wars? Was it 2012? 2012, I think, yeah. 2012. Okay, so how old was it? They did predict that 2012 was the end of the world. I guess they were close. Yeah, it was the end of one world. It was the end of the fantasy world. All right, yeah. I want to go back to when I was 15. Yeah, 15. When the world still made a semblance of sense. Let's do that. Come on, guys. And the days before the Orange Man. The evil man in all of history. But yeah, so not to mention, by the way, because we have to talk about this, if Poe had agreed and they all went back to the ships, do you remember how Poe used to park his X-Wing inside the radish before they can leave? Pretty sure X-Wings have hyperdrive, so I don't know why. But regardless, the bombers... I guess he wouldn't want to burn the fuel and everything. The bombers have hyperdrive, right? Right? Um, they must have. I mean, if they got... So theoretically, I think so, yeah. Theoretically, we're dealing with the idea that if he had said everybody retreat, they all turn to face the right direction, they all have the correct coordinates, they all zoom off and the the empire like, ah, you bastards. I mean the first order, sorry. It is so, yes, the bombers from the last Jedi, the MG-100 Star Fortress SF-17, they do have hyperdrives. Um, yeah, my point is that, uh, they're saying that, like, that's Poe's mistake, when I'm just sitting here like, man, thank God Poe did what he did, otherwise you guys all would be dead. No appreciation for that. In fact, he learns to do the opposite at the end of the film. It's utterly fucked. And, uh, if you wanted to fix it, you need to work way harder in making that scene much more clear. How does he mute Leia's ability to control anybody? And if she can't, if he outranks her, and that's why she can't, then thank God he was in control, because he would know the battle situation better than she would. Absolutely. And she'd already sent the bombers out anyway, because they arrive right after the call- Yeah, it seems like that was the plan, right up until she decided it wasn't the plan. Weird how that works. Nobody likes to talk about this stuff. Yeah, no one likes it. People are just like, things, if it's not on screen, it doesn't exist. Oh, now it does exist. Okay. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. People arrived at the places where they are in some way. This is a Batman problem. Batman Gotham problem. He's like, well, okay, all right. You know what they should have done? They should have had one bomber put it on autopilot to hyperdrive into the dreadnought and everyone leave. Yeah, why didn't they do that? Well, I'll tell you what, Ragsby. They didn't do it because it wouldn't have worked. Okay. You see, the Empire would have light sprung around, and they wouldn't be able to, sorry, the first order, my bad. I keep making this mistake. I don't know why I keep making that mistake. It's weird. You know, I think it's kind of weird that they, why didn't they just disable the big gun? Why didn't they just hyperdrive into the big gun? You didn't have to destroy the ship. You just had to destroy the fucking fuck off cannon. Best part is, is there's only like two people in those bombers anyway. So it's like. Yeah, and they're useless. At least you'll get some out of them. Just put a droid in there. We already know for a fact that those ships have hyperdrives because we looked it up. Well, we had droids piloting ships way back in the prequels. And recently in Mandalorian. Yeah, this is one of the capable of engaging hyperdrive. I would have you remember. Yeah, this is a thing. Well, that stuff takes place before the sequel trilogy. It's really just your opinion. I guess it's only a prequel if I interpret it as such. Simply wants to escape once the last ship is ready. Poe disregards her orders and deploys bombers to finish his attack on the. Thank God he did. Thank God he did. Clap for Poe. Can I get some claps for Poe? What a hero. Thanks. Good job. Poe, you saved the resistance. Wait, wait, wait. Snapping. Oh, I can't clap. Staps for Poe. The attack goes horribly wrong and puts the entire fleet at risk. The plan succeeds. The plan succeeds. They destroy the dreadnought. It does not go horribly wrong. What do you mean? Win the battle. Oh, Jesus. Rosa's sister to sacrifice herself to save the resistance. Which, by the way- Save the resistance, you say? Save the resistance? Question, Mr. Maker of Video. If Leia had said yes, go for it, which seemed to be the plan up until she said no, what was the plan for the bombers? Because the only way they seem to be able to deploy their payload is to be right on top of the target in open warfare. Like, I don't think these things can survive. One TIE fighter accidentally knocks out three of them. It seems like these things are built to be beaten. Half a TIE fighter. Sorry, yeah. Half a TIE fighter accidentally destroys three bombers of where- Well, TIE fighters are like being a Jedi. You do more- You can do more damage and you're more useful if you're dead. Learn something new every day, I suppose. There you go. You just don't leave some Star Wars. Because they blew up the thing. But Leia regards it as a failure because of the people they love. Yeah, Leia would have regarded it as a failure and pieces of debris once it destroyed them later. Leia wouldn't have existed to regard it in any way, because she'd be dead along with the rest of the resistance. Do you know another thing they like to forget about is when the Empire turned back up, he's like, uh, permission to get into my ship and start shooting things, she was permission granted. Implying that, like, yeah, Poe, you know what you're doing, get out there. It's just not the disaster that people try and frame it as, and I actually think it's because of Ryan Johnson's incompetence. It's not because that's not what they were going for. I know that's what they were going for. They just fucked it up. You established this horrible monster that's going to kill everyone. Guy comes up with a plan to sacrifice a portion of your army to kill monster, and everyone says it would have been better if you didn't kill monster and we all died. It doesn't make sense. I'm sorry. That's where we're at. Lost. And over the course of the film, it's clear that Leia is right. The resistance doesn't even have a fleet for that ship to be a threat to- Oh, okay. What? Okay, so fuck this. How can you be this retarded? Okay. So- He's a TLJ fan that explains everything. This ship, this fleet gets destroyed across the movie. Like, and plus, this makes no sense. Okay, it's like, now they don't have a ship for the enemy to destroy. They don't have a fleet for the enemy to destroy. It's like, motherfucker, they would- Nobody would be left for them to destroy if they hadn't done that. I need to- I need to chill out because this is making me- I just don't- I don't get it. How could someone be this stupid? So, I'll remind him of the several scenes in which people are getting obliterated and hold us going, well, keep going, guys. Remember that? The medical frigate gets blown the fuck up. Yep, keep going. So, they- They still have the Radis. The reason that they survive, which by the way makes no sense anyway, is because the enemies don't have a Dreadnought, a weapon that can destroy them at distance while they're chasing through space. For some reason, they forget about all of their other weapons. I don't really care about that for this specific point, which is the Dreadnought would have destroyed the Radis before they reached Crate, killing everyone. Okay? Po did a good. So, it's just best if they were all destroyed at the beginning of the film, instead of surviving as long as they can? Yes. I guess? Like, is that actually- I want to see this version. I would love for some people to elaborate on this point. I want to see Leia be like, pull out and then Po goes, pull out everybody, they all hype space out, and then the whole Empire follow them, and the Dreadnought just snipes them all one by one as it chases all of them, starting with the Radis. Exactly. They'd be dead faster. Exactly. And there wouldn't even be a Radis to issue commands to. There wouldn't be a Holdo. There wouldn't be a Leia. There wouldn't be those ships docked inside. This is- I just- I don't understand. I just don't understand how somebody can look at this and be like, yeah, this totally makes sense. Leia was totally right. It's like, if anything, if I was on the crew, I'd be like, oh, thank god, this Po guy didn't listen to Leia, or else I would be dead right now. On a high level. He had all the big charge, and she's like, oh yeah, studio on. Well, my friends are getting killed. Carapacean menace's comment. They had only one Dreadnought, even though Po were first and plurally, like Dreadnoughts with fleet killers, and it's like, yeah, they brought along mostly like 17 Star Destroyers, but not a single additional Dreadnought. Also, even if there was more than one Dreadnought, you still have to kill the one about to kill you. Yeah, you gotta get rid of both of them at that point. Yeah, it's like, now you're just like, yeah, you gotta get rid of them both. And why not just hyperdrive into the next one? Boom, problem solved. Episode nine. This isn't even going over the horrible ideas that we've got thousands of TIE fighters. One TIE fighter knocks out the hangar in the bridge, and we're sitting here, oh well, three, whatever, sitting here with thousands of them, and we're like, nah, nah, nah, nah. Like this Comet plot twist, they're all suicidal. Leia was trying to kill everybody. That was the virtuous thing to do, because who wants to live in this world? What world? Two by the end. Those people and resources were far more valuable than this empty victory. Oh, how? Leia, do you- They wouldn't be alive. They wouldn't. I'm not talking about how can you say this? As opposed to, okay, the options are, we sacrifice some members of our army to destroy the enemy. By the way, the point of an army kind of, you know, you gotta understand, we have to expend our military to destroy theirs until one of us surrenders ideally. So the alternative is that we all die. Okay, probably not the best idea, right? Radical notion that maybe whatever other alternative to all of us dying might be better just by default. This is insane. This is insane. Just a bit. Just a tad. Just a smidge. This is insane. And over the course of the film, it's clear that Leia is right. The resistance doesn't even have a fleet for that ship to be a threat to by the end. Makes no sense. Those people and resources were far more valuable than this empty victory. This ship is dead. It's destroyed. Leia depends on Poe to take over for her, but he only understands leadership from the perspective of an X-wing pilot. Oh, someone who destroys the enemy has victory. He only understands the enemy. Wait, hold on. He only understands leadership from the perspective of being a leader in an X-wing squadron. Yeah, which, by the way, that wasn't the scenario he was in at the beginning of the film. No, no. He was leading not a fleet, it not an X-wing, okay? This is different things. Leia's only way to lead is to be suicidal. Exactly. Why is all TLJ fans like this? I don't know. They're like, it's literally better that we all die right now than expend part of our resources to save all of our lives. It's like, surely if the option is between some of us dying and all of us dying, surely one of those is better than the other. This is so monumentally wrong, just this whole bit. This is nuts. But the Jedi, he's filled with misconceptions about what the role he's growing into is. So, Ryan Johnson takes away his X-wing and forces him to learn the hard way. Forces him into a mutiny because his captain won't tell him a plan that doesn't involve killing everyone on his own team. I can't believe we're still on this. Like, come on. The hold-up plan thing was so stupid. It was nonsensical. The fact that not everybody mutinied is the real mirror. People are saying to Gadel bit. Gadel what specifically? What do you guys reckon? I think they might be talking about the he only understands something leadership from is an X-wing pilot. He only understands leadership from the perspective of an X-wing pilot. Okay, so let's talk about X-wings. X-wings destroyed Starkiller base. X-wings destroyed the Dreadnought. X-wings blew up a Star Destroyer. They helped destroy a second Star Destroyer. I don't know. I feel like someone in an X-wing might have a couple good ideas regarding military strategy. This is the guy who blew up Starkiller base. In an X-wing. He doesn't understand leadership, though. What an idiot. He saved everybody he could. He just understands how to win a war and save lives. He only destroyed the most powerful weapon in the history of Star Wars. What a froob. Oh no, I can't say that. God. To him, leadership is all about bravado and heroics, but his choices end up necessitating that- You can't make this argument when he's- He may as well be lied to. Like, lied by omission. She tells him so little he's convinced, along with several other people in his team, that basically Holder's gonna kill everyone. How can you say that this is him being like, oh, I want bravado. I want to save people. Like, I just- It blows my mind people have this interpretation after that scene where he says, give us hope. Tell us this something. And her response is a fucking, like, platitude. She just looks at him. Only platitude. It's like the sun. It's big and rad and stupid. Hope is like the sun. If you get close to it, it kills you. You see, this is why it doesn't make sense. Like, no, no, no, we don't need, like, we don't need fortune cookies right now. We need a military battle plan, because they're trying to kill us with their lasers and stuff. You like how, as well, people will often cite. So you don't think you fucked up, do you? You're like, no. And you're like, so how did the bad guys find out about the transports again? Oh, through DJ. And how did DJ find out? Well, he overheard Po on the radio. Ha! So it's Po's fault. It's like, no. Po had no idea that that guy was even listening to the conversation with Finn. He was telling- Because that- He was telling Finn about the situation. He was just gay. Yeah, because DJ shouldn't have even been involved. He shouldn't be in the fucking room. It's all Finn's fault. And everyone blames Po. It's so fucked up. It's like, maybe not on the call with rags and then I just like open onto speaker without telling him and like, some other guy hears it. It's rags' fault. How the fuck does that work? Nonsense. It is desperation of the delusional mind to try and make Po out to be incompetent when he is the most valuable at- Well, besides Rey, that the resistance has. Po needs a pilot when you can fucking pop suns in the solar system. I'm sure she'll do that in the next one. Others heroically sacrifice themselves. And while their actions work, it's a leader's job to prevent things from coming to that. There were heroes on that mission. Dead heroes. Yeah, that's what here- Whoa, no, okay. Listen up, asshole. Here we go again. All right, listen up. Let's go, uh, let's look at the Vietnam Memorial. There were heroes in that. Dead heroes. Dead heroes. No, no, we can take this back further. There were heroes in that war. Dead. Can't make a video defending the last Jedi talking about Joseph- Mr. Campbell, whatever his first name is, JC and the Hero's Journey, and then say- Yeah, Jesus Christ. What do you think happens in a lot of these classic Hero's Journey tales? The hero dies. You're not getting it, Rags. You're not getting it. So Po is saying, hey, appreciate the fact that a bunch of people died heroically, and then she's like, yeah, they're dead. They're not alive anymore, thanks to your plan. They're dead. You know, the fact that they saved the rest of the fleet doesn't matter. It's the fact that they're dead. Yes, they died to save the fleet. They knew what they signed up for. It's tragic, but they're soldiers in an army, and they died to save the rest of us. They'd be alive. Let's not make their sacrifice be in vain. They would be alive if it wasn't for Po's bad decision so that they could have died five minutes later, Rags. Okay? You understand now? It's just, man- It's wrong that Po allowed them to die faster in exchange for everyone else living longer, as opposed to everyone dying slightly later. That is the argument. The slam dunk. It's like, I can't believe Po could just look so late. It's like, notice how alive we are right now. You ever stop and think about how alive we are at this moment and how that happened? You're welcome, by the way. He's lucky for that. When they figured out they're the hyperspace tracker, he's lucky to just look at Leia like, Oh, how terrible that this has happened. If only we had destroyed the dra- Oh, we did. Thank goodness. So now we can actually outrun them. Well, not outrun them, but whatever the hell happens in this film that they try to make sense of. But that's a whole other discussion of nonsense. Also, they still haven't talked about Canto Byte. Like, maybe they're looking at this through the literal actual. Legitimate. I'm trying to think of the other words, literal actual. Legitimate. Legitimate. Real. Lens. Whatever. Of the lens of what Rose said at the end, this is how we win, not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love. And so they think that this is an actual military strategy that should be employed whenever possible. Dude, I just want to see that line being repeated as they're all obliterated by the dreadnought. I'm so confused. I mean, they pretty much did that when the laser attacks the thing. She's like, save what you love. Oh, my God. Absolutely everything they love is destroyed. And then again, all of this wouldn't even be an issue if hyperdrive ships into the dreadnought. Yep. It's just, it's almost like a given that you can't even discuss that because of how obviously it fucks everything up. Why didn't Yoda just show up enlightening the dreadnought canon? Oh, right. Oh, such a big problem that he can do. Like, he's a ghost. He's a puppet ghost. He's a ghost that can arrive whenever he wants to do just fucking blow shit up. Stop. I mean, Leia is force sensitive. There's no reason that Leia couldn't show up there. Okay. But have you thought about the themes? Oh, the themes of what themes? Why the film is really good if you thought about that? The theme. Oh, the theme is that the last Jedi is good. So obviously everything in the film has to service the idea that the last Jedi is good. Yeah, pretty much that. Okay. Sorry for a second there. I thought you'd missed it. How awkward that would have been. Going to that. There were heroes on that mission. Dead heroes. Yeah, they saved their lives. He comes to realize that protecting the resistance is a far greater responsibility than blowing things up and completes his arc by wrecking. He didn't complete his arc. If anything, he's regressed from a character who is competent and effective to just some fucking loser. How many people die on that final mission anyway? Isn't it like 90% of them? I think the only people that make it back are Poe, Rose, and Finn. And what are they all to that? Rose and Finn just don't even make sense. But I'm like, what? Cruel across the whole battlefield. He's like, what is it? Just imagine a couple of the storm troopers in the AT-ATs watching them and laughing the whole time. Like, eating popcorn. And I'm like, I wonder how long it's going to take. He's like, I got 20 credits says he can't pull her for 10 minutes. He's like, oh yeah, I only say six minutes and I'll put 50 credits. How long before he abandons her? Also, I want to highlight like, I think we've done this before, but I just love the idea that Kylo and Luke are facing off and in the background, he's just yanking it. He's like, yeah. He's trying to deliver some epic speech. You just hear him. You see him like roll some swell off his head. Yeah, it focuses on him in the background. He's yanking it and they both just stop and look. I'm getting a completely different image in my head whenever you guys describe it as yanking. That's because you're dirty, a dirty, dirty boy. There were heroes on that mission. Dead heroes. You know how we aren't dead heroes right now? I never get less frustrated listening to you say that. As that protecting the resistance is a far greater responsibility than blowing things up and completes his arc by recognizing that the thing is trying to kill you, then they can't kill you. No, that's not necessarily true, Rags. What if you blow up a piece of dynamite that's in your pocket that's trying to kill you, then you blow up two, gotcha. I don't even understand. How could a rational adult human being say these things? They should have just died. They're like, yeah, I guess they should have just died. I'm just picturing the scene. They write Poe so what, eventually that he's like, we got to blow up everything to prevent it from blowing us up. And then someone goes, Poe, it's not always about blowing things up. And he like looks down. He's like, oh my God. Like imagine that you have like a game. Let's Halo. You read versus blue. And one of the team is just, they don't want to kill the other one at all. And they don't use any weapons or punch or anything. Like which side do you think is going to win? Which one's defending what they love? Clarify for me. That's the one that wins, Rags. That's what I believe. How much longer is this terrible video? 13 minutes. We're nearly down to the 10 minute mark. We get them there. Who knows? They might be an ad at the end. Rags, don't worry. We get tonal down to this. I was going to say tonal will save us. Yes, keep your eyes on the prize, gentlemen. In an attack is a futile gesture. The point is stated with absolutely no subtlety when Rose saves Finn from sacrifice. Please mention the laser in the background. Please mention it. Ficing himself. No, I hope it's just like that. You could see it. I really hope that he does the same thing that Mackintosh did where he just plays the clip and then we get to see the explosion fire. Yeah. Please do it. Please be that. Please do it. Please do it. Please do it. I'm fighting what we hate. Save him what we love. But the film has earned that coin. No, he can't. No, no. Fuck you. Boo throws popcorn. You left out the best part. Damn it. That's a shifty attitude. I was getting so ready to laugh. We're all disappointed. You suck. You could have made this video go from a negative 10 to a negative 9. Save him what we love. But the film has earned that corny line by hammering this point in from the very first film. It literally hasn't. It does not. You know this character you have on screen blows up a dreadnought, right? Yeah, but she defended what she loves, right? Do you know how many thousands of people she kills? She defended what she loves. It's different. Different. Oh, okay. Different. Okay. Different. Blowing up that cannon would have just delayed the inevitable. What? Oh, no! It would have kept. Oh, my God! They say in the film, the cannon's the only thing that's capable of breaching the fucking wall. It would have literally kept people from dying. What do you mean? What do you mean? Just shoot yourself in the head. You're only delaying- No! No, no, no! How did you justify this? You're so stupid! It's like, eventually the Republic will fail. So just don't even make one. Well, that's what he said about the Jedi. Why is the two-tenth thousand-year piece what it's just going to end anyway? Fuck no. What is it? Just shoot yourself in the fucking head. You're not going to live forever. It just- You're just delaying the inevitable fighting for your life and life and what you love and what you care for. Heat death of the universe. Everybody should just kill everyone. Fuck it. It's just life, living, people. It doesn't matter. You're all going to fucking die. Just don't postpone the inevitable. Just kill yourself. Oh God, drinker. You just missed. Is critical drinker here? Oh my God, critical drinker. We're Frankaltisms. You just made a golden quote. Is that him? Does he have verification or not? I don't know. It didn't show verification. Oh, just click the- It isn't always. It's something you have to reply. Let's go to channel. Let's see if it actually is him. Yeah, it's him. All right, drinker. Let him listen to this. Blowing things up and completes his arc by recognizing that the canon attack is a futile gesture. The point is stated with absolutely no subtlety when Rose saves Finn from sacrificing himself. That's how we're going to win. Not fighting what we hate. Save him what we love. But the film has earned that corny line by hammering this point in for the very first minute. Blowing up that canon would have just delayed the inevitable. Oh my god. Oh my god. Like, should we fight the Nazis? It's like, no. We're going to die anyway. We're all mortal men anyway. We're all going to die. Let them take over America or whatever. Fuck it. Shouldn't we stop them to save what we love? No. That's not how it works. Just believe. Just have hope. Just something. Their only goal was getting out alive. Which Finn does, thanks to Rose. Like it or not, she was right. No, she wasn't. If anything, she was right by accident. Yeah, Luke is apparently the one that saves the ball. Not her. If she hadn't stopped Finn and he blew up the canon and Luke never arrived, they would have escaped all the same. Can you imagine them escaping because they've blown up the canon and Luke shows up to delay them? But he's like, oh, you didn't need. Oh, I just died for no reason. Wow. Well, if you would have to have. So if Rose is only, she's not even correct. But she's really if I was going to, if I was going to be as insanely overly generous to the point of insanity and irrationally, then it would be that other people are just doing it and not you. It's going to have to get down to that. It's essentially the idea that it's more noble to just let yourself be killed. Even though evil people are the ones trying to kill you. It's better that you just let the evil people murder you and planets full of people because at least you didn't destroy what you hate. Like maybe it's a maybe it's a good thing that you hate the evil people destroying planets. Maybe that's kind of a good thing. In fact, if you didn't hate them, I'd kind of look at you a little. It blows my mind. Why didn't Yoda force lightning the canon? Can you imagine? He's not figuring it out quite yet. He turns up next to the canon and they're like all the troopers see him. They're like, what the fuck? He's like, come on. They're like, it sparks. And they're all like, wait, what was he doing? Stop it, you little green puppet. They're just not shooting him. He's like, leave me alone. It would have made for a better film. I'm sorry. That just I want to see Yoda trying to blow things up, but he's not quite able to do it. Hanzark shows the importance of heroes and legends. We know from the Force Awakens that he's not a hero, but a guy who did the right thing at the right time against every fiber of his being telling him otherwise. All he wanted to do was disappear. He was never joining the resistance and only stuck around in the last film to rescue Rey. Thank you for telling us what the film literally tells us. Yeah, I don't, I guess we're on to Finn now. It's like, okay, tell me how this is meaningful. Regardless, he becomes a hero overnight. Rose's character demonstrates the important effect his actions have had. Well, we heard about it. My sister Paige said Rose. That's a real hero. She's deflated when fighting him. That's a real hero who's done absolutely nothing. Didn't we, we all questioned like, how did that story get spread exactly? How did Rose's sister even know who Finn was? Like, hasn't it been just like a night? I, you know what I mean? Like, then there's like 400 people on this ship, most of which, well, maybe not most, but a lot of which would have been at the fight for Starkiller. Surely. In those X-Wings, I mean, like, I mean, yeah, it's not a very big organization. Probably a huge amount of crossover. And the issue with Finn in, we already know his issues in TFA, carrying them over to this film. It's just embarrassing that he like gets told that a good evil, it doesn't matter. And he's like, okay. And then once he's betrayed by DJ, betrayed, quote unquote, he commits to being rebel scum. It's like, oh, okay. Remember, he learns about Rose's horrible history in Canto Byte, which hopefully is going to come up now, because we've got the perfect intro of Canto Byte. I'm sure it's coming. Um, he's like sad face. She's like, oh my god, we used to, you know, we, we, we lived in blah, blah, blah, blah. And I just remember thinking like, yep, her horrible life growing up when the Republic was in power, who you are now trying to get back in power. I don't understand. Jack really would drink her to come on. I mean, we're gonna, I don't even know if we have the, like, I know how stupid this sounds. I don't know if we have the time, if we have a fourth person reacting to all the content, we've still got actually- What if it was for the rest of this video? Is he interested? Yeah. Um, if he is, he can let us know. But yeah, maybe for just the rest of this video, I know it's kind of like a trio thing we got going, but yeah, uh, because I'm starting to, starting to really hate this video. He might revitalize us to a degree. He might, yeah. So if he wants to stick around for the next, let me, I say the next 13 minutes of this video, which is three hours for us. Yep. But maybe that's what happens when basically everything you say is fucking wrong. Um, all right, kicking. Well, yeah, we'll continue, I'll keep an eye on chat. In effect, his actions have had. Well, we heard about it. My sister Paige said Rose. That's a real hero. She's deflated when finding out that he's actually a deserter, but over the course of the story, he's not a deserter. He's not a deserter. He's not a deserter. He's not. It's going to find Ray because he's not a part of the resistance. Yeah, I'm not even a part of the resistance and I'm not, I, I, I can't desert if I'm not part of your organization. And even if we look at this from a moral standpoint, he's not deserting. Also her hair in this frame looks like one of those Nazi helmets. A little bit. Also, he said, uh, he struggled to play catch-up on this video. I, um, yeah. Nice to see you anyway, Mr. Sir. Uh-huh. Live up to the myth. DJ tests his commitment to play hero. Make, make your book available in paperback. I don't have a candle. Yeah, idiot. Got him. Or a hardback. Ben is pressured to live up to the myth. DJ tests his commitment to playing hero with a muddied view of right and wrong that may appeal to his desire to flee. It's all a machine, partner. He didn't join. They're free. Don't join. But he overcomes this uncertainty and recognizes that this is where he belongs. What do you mean? Why are you, why explaining this like he went on some crazy ass journey? He, he just gave CJ a look. Or DJ, sorry. Uh, and then later on he's like sort of winning with their plan and then they get captured and then he's like, you, what does he call him? You murdering bastard? You traitoring bastard? Something. Cosmo bastard. Yeah. And then like Captain Phasma is like you, you, you, you scum. And he's like rebel scum. And we're just sort of like, oh. Oh. Okay. Yep. And then he takes it too far, you see. He tries to kill himself for a cause and then Rose is like, nah, dummy. You need everyone to be killed that you love. Otherwise you might end up killing someone you hate. Fuck that. Yeah. Belongs. By the end he is the hero Rose originally thought him to be. And Rose is inspired to grow from a meek technician into a hero herself. This is the value that a hero is hero. So we're really, we're really, I wish she was a dead hero, but man we are, um, we're really lowering the bar for what a hero is. Is her heroic act preventing Finn from saving everyone? Is that what he's referencing? I think her heroic act is biting hucks in that deleted scene, like some feral animal. It's either that or the fact that she shot at Phasma and it did nothing. That was also a hero moment. Even if it isn't really true, all of the mythology that Star Wars is based on is fiction. It exists across every culture because of our psychological need for it. What do those things do? What are those lowering things do? They like grapple into the floor to help balance, I don't know. Well why, it would balance easier if one of the sides wasn't fucking massive and the other one was tiny. I didn't build this thing Rags. I was saying, what are these? These are like the dumbest designs for vehicle ever. What do they do? They don't have guns. Well that was always my question. I was curious what they were supposed to do and I guess the whole plan the whole time was to just drive up into the cannon and blow it up that way I guess. And Rose couldn't even help but fuck that one up. Rose got really far ahead of Finn and then right angle turned or left angle turned sorry and crashed him out. Rose if you don't want Finn to die why don't you just kill yourself? And why did she do a thing that could easily have guaranteed both of their deaths? It's such a bad scene, it hurts to think about. It's great as a disaster. Culture because of our psychological need for it. Ryan Johnson is saying that it's okay if the hero doesn't measure up to the myth because it's not about that individual. It's about the larger idea that they provide the spark for. As long as you get the idea you want at the end it doesn't matter how stupid and ridiculous and nonsensical it took for you to get there. It's just well as long as the ending was the payoff that I wanted it's just something. Someone call them salt tractors salt tractors. It's not about salt farming. We're farming the salt. It's not about the individual heroes salt this year. It's not about the individual heroes. It's about the legend they leave behind and how they inspire other people with heroic legend stories and stuff. And it's like like Luke at the end of the sixth episode. It's like no like Luke at the end of this one. Like oh I mean I don't even know how this story managed to spread and why is it that the logic of it's not always about the character means you can now just shit all over Luke. I don't understand why couldn't you have it so that he was consistent with himself and he managed to spread stories of his heroics. In fact the only way you could have this lesson happen is by deleting the knowledge of the OT which for some reason worked. Nobody seems to remember if it even happened. It's just it's painful. Brian Johnson is saying that it's okay if the hero doesn't measure up to the myth because it's not about that individual. It's about the larger idea that they provide the spark for. Oh is that the biggest hero case? Why do you think why do you think they provide sparks for anything? How do you think that happens? Do you think that we hold up completely normal mundane unremarkable people as heroes to idolize when they don't do anything? They usually do a thing. Being a hero implies doing something heroic and that's what we see in them. We don't just come up with the idea of heroism out of nowhere it's based off of things that heroes do. Throw in the galaxy to the point that people think everything would be solved if he just returned. It would certainly fucking help. Yeah no my position is just that I would like it if he helped that's all. Yeah I'd be nifty. It's not even necessarily because I think that they all win with him. It's that I feel uncomfortable knowing that Luke doesn't give a shit. That really puts me in an awkward position. I'm like hmm don't like that. Even if Luke wasn't there in that scene and this stuff would still have happened and they would have escaped. So he didn't even really do anything. What did Luke do? Really though. I guess he's talking about the characters in universe when he says this. I just hope he's not using a straw man again. It's like you all think that he just saved the day if he turned up. It's like not necessarily. Provide the spark for. Luke is the biggest hero in the galaxy to the point that people think everything would be solved if he just returned. Because of you now we have a chance. No he says we have a chance. Well a chance to find Luke and that would lead ultimately to a chance. That's just problems with force awakens. It doesn't even make sense. I think I highlight I was like why would you think that Luke is the one that's going to be able to just turn everything. But I mean the idea that Luke being on the team gives them a shot. Yeah why wouldn't it. Yeah it's. Who thinks that it's we get a guaranteed W if Luke shows up for it. He's that powerful rags. He's going to pick up all the 80s and crush them into one big bowl and throw it at the sun. Collect the money on scrap to buy some new ships for your resistance. They believe these. That was a compilation of people saying Luke. Remember what happens immediately after Ray saying that. I thought he was a myth. Yeah that's just that's like what that's that's a good example. That's a fantastic example of a meaningless edit. Yeah. Do you want to do a compilation of the amount of times Han's name is said. Let's just do that. Han Solo. No one left in the galaxy for you to swendle. Even the myth version of Luke the one that fans wanted. The infallible hero who doesn't exist. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Is he gonna say what I think he's gonna say. A Gary stew. If you. That's what fans wanted Luke the Gary stew. What's wrong with you. I'd like to remind everybody that this was the convincing. You're gonna call Luke. You're gonna call Luke a Gary stew. But then you people freak out every time that we call Ray a Mary Sue and actually have evidence to back it up. If anyone was convinced by this video I have to question if your brain was functioning. Oh my god. Maybe they were sleepy. Sleepy. Sleepyisms. Yeah. King Arthur has always been a major influence on Star Wars but it's especially clear in the new movies. Ray offers Luke his Excalibur and the chance to return as the hero and Luke bitterly rejects it. You see I've reframed it within King Arthur now that it's better. It's like nope still sucks. No still. And even then Excalibur really isn't uh really isn't the good. Rock it your roof. Which is kind of out of character. Luke would never throw away his lightsaber like it regardless. Shut the fuck. Wow. He did the argument. He compared those two. Holy shit this guy's an idiot. He did. Everybody does this one. Luke would never throw his lightsaber. Would he? Oh look he did. Oh the context is completely different. Trying to symbolize that he is not going to continue attacking Vader is the exact same as someone going hey is this your lightsaber. No. What did you throw this use paper use paper plate into the garbage. Well that justifies you throwing a live grenade in a child. I mean you're just throwing something. It's all the same. Just throwing stuff is all the same. This comparison I covered this on another one but I was like how long before they say Luke wore clothes at the OT. He does this in the sequels. He's entirely within his character. Yeah if Luke puts on a dress here it makes sense because he wore clothes here. It's all the same. There's no. Oh okay let's break down why this is an insanely stupid thing to do and I'm disappointed in anybody who was convinced by this. So why did Luke throw away his lightsaber in that throne room. Oh well what what led him to do that. Why why would he have done that. Why would he have discarded his weapon in that throne room right. Well the emperor told Luke to kill Darth Vader to give in to his hate yada yada yada and Luke threw away the lightsaber as a symbol to the emperor that he was not going to do that. He had he was resolute in his position that he would not do something that was foundationally immoral that was wrong that would directly result in the death of somebody that he cared for in some way and that he wouldn't submit to the emperor. Well isn't that what's going on in in TLJ. Isn't it Ray asks him to kill Vader whatever right with the sword. And I guess in TLJ he throws the lightsaber away to give the audience a giggle even though Luke like a realistic or reasonable Luke an actual Luke not Jake from State Farm. If he saw this he'd be like holy shit and all of the memories that were associated with this lightsaber. Everything that it had been through who had wielded it what it was used for. He wouldn't just cat like someone just shows up with a lightsaber that means so much to you and he's just like tosses it away and walks away without a thought without without a word. He doesn't say anything. He is like he doesn't even care is like shouldn't you be concerned someone found you when you came to the most unfundable place in the galaxy. Like if she found if some chick found you with your lightsaber who the who else could find you what if it was Snoke could Snoke find you could the first order find you. There are other people on this island should be you should you be concerned about their safety what about the safety of yourself. You're missing the fact that you threw the lightsaber down are insane. The amount of ways that this breaks apart are incredible. Mind boggling. Like I said he's he's he seems like he's just compiled a lot of the standard arguments. We've been through these a million times and it's it's as surface level as Luke threw his lightsaber before he's in character. Luke attacked Vader that means attacking Kylo is the same. You think that I came to the most unfundable place in the galaxy for no reason at all. That saber is a symbol of every no no if anything literally not and if anything that line would back up what I said not what he's saying. If anything that specific lightsaber wouldn't really make much sense for that line since he hasn't had it since the end of episode five. It's a symbol for all that is to him. Everything that went wrong in his life he resents it and the myth surrounding him but it puts Luke in the painful position of knowing that everyone's last hope is resting with him and there's nothing he can do for them his resolve to stay did do you mean there's nothing he can do for him. Why would that be his conclusion. Why would he think there is nothing I can do. Maybe showing up that could you know even saying hello I'll probably do something for the morality team but okay. Disconnected and the end of the Jedi begins to crack. He's reminded of the good he was able to do while inspired by the Jedi myth and the bad that happened when he was there. Wait why did he oh wait he's saying that the dice symbolize Han and Han's death is the bad. While I understood that to be the bad was reference referencing. Solo is the bad you're like oh. Surrounding him but it puts Luke in the painful position of knowing that everyone's last hope is resting with him and there's nothing he can do for them. His resolve to stay disconnected. How does he know there's nothing he can do. How does he know that. Cause he's depressed I guess. He's sad he's a sad man. He's old. Remember he's old. He is old. A Jedi begins to. Wouldn't this just make him resolute to try all the more. No no no. Crack. He's reminded of the good he was able to do while inspired by the Jedi myth and the bad that happened when he wasn't there. Rey wears him down to the point that he not only begins teaching her but opens himself back up to the Force. Yeah it didn't take much did it. Yeah it's kind of weird how that could happen so quickly. Yeah. Randy managed to crack your entire 10 year developed perspective at the very least so good job Luke. And yeah and if you're talking about Yoda then it's like man he should have showed up like years decades ago. He did this shit before Yoda even showed up. So yeah. Yeah. Someone said my dad went to Octu to get some books 30 years ago. Is he coming back. And to justice he's ready to return with her history repeats. Don't do this. You must not go. Believing he's lost her and only made. Okay. Yeah. Both of them. Strip away all the context and it's the same there. This is so dishonest. Well like when he cut the seed before the laser exploded all the people we love after Rose said protect the people we love. You read like that. Or the time that he tried to defend Leia surviving through space while deliberately leaving out parts of the article that defeat his argument. Yeah I'm confused Rags how did you conclude what you just said he's everything's been so great so far. I don't believe I don't believe you when you say this you too were has made good content. Hey man. I don't know. Have you seen it. Have you. Hey no and I never go into watch any of this somewhere. Out there. T.L.J. Rocks the brain. Okay. Maybe everything before this was okay. If he's correct about anything I'm going to be convinced it's by accident. Oh man. Things worse again. He recommits to torching the last remnants of the Jedi when Yoda finally sets him straight on the last theme. Failure. Yoda sets him on the last theme. I was Jesus Christ. He has to tell him the theme. Luke by being terrible much like all of the failures of the Jedi because they suck. You've now learned the thing you got to do is die. But you got to do it by appearing as a ghost to trick Kylo into thinking you're actually there so that a few seconds go by for team good guys. Okay. That's what you got to do. Failure most of all. The greatest teacher failure. The series is full of that's just crazy enough to work plans and this may be the first time it actually doesn't work. No, because I plan was retarded. Is he referring to their plan to get the code breaker as the crazy enough to work but just didn't. It's like what stopped their plan was a random droid spotting them. It was the labest fucking defeat ever. No, no, I feel like if I do something correct then that's a pretty solid teaching that what I did was something I should stick with. Failures are an inevitable part of life and they don't always happen for poetic reasons. Like Luke, the good guys tried to help and only made things worse. When? What? When? When? Oh, he's referring to Poe who's trying to help and it leads to getting everyone killed. Yeah, that's because of Holdo. She's like the villain. Also, but again, this is like Poe saved everyone. Poe saved everyone's lives so that they that some of them would die at a later date due to attacks. Why save an army if later on someone in the army could die? I just don't. This is insane. Let's just carry on because I didn't realize that the title of this video was a guide to the last Jedi of her Star Wars for the Star Wars fan base. This is a guide to how to write things terribly. He's just copied other people's work anyway. All of these arguments are just reformed from other places. I've seen these a million times over. It's just a collection of all of them put into one video and somehow it apparently works. Even though you got all those snipes in there too, by the way. Like you'd have to be stupid not to know the thing. You have to not be paying attention to not know the thing. Yeah, I only mis-represents several movies that came before. Mis-represents an article about bits, information that gets in the way. We still haven't talked about Cato Byte, god damn it. Is he going to? We only have 10 minutes left. Well, that's a lifetime in eFap, yes. But failure is not a license to withdraw and stop trying. Still looking to the horizon. You're here. The need in front of your nose. Luke still has an obligation to pass on what he knows and to fulfill the need the universe has of him. I can't be what she needs me to be. He realizes that the answer is to be who she needs him to be. Oh, oh, all right. I would have never guessed. All righty. All right. And so he does what he said he couldn't. I'm gonna walk out with a laser sword and face down on the hole. Why would you say that? You didn't face them. That's not facing them. You're not even there. That's putting a laptop screen in front of them and activating Skype and being like, hey, come at me. See, I faced the whole first order. I faced them. No, you didn't. Well, he faced them in a. Like in the sense of he is facing them like directionally. Yes, they are both. And people think that he did. Racks, the legging spread. Remember little kids playing with the toys, they think he did it. So they're they're front. He lied to the world. Isn't that great? Okay. It's like there's like no way you can spin this where it turns good. It's like it's always terrible. Because that's what the Luke they believe in would do. He's using his old light. Well, then why wouldn't he just show? Okay. So why wouldn't he just show up and say, no, no, no, I'm only one guy and I'm an old guy. So I can't like do everything, but I can certainly help you out. I can offer my advice and I could, you know, help to fight against the force users and stuff like that. But I can't single-handedly win this. Why didn't why didn't Luke just show up and say that? Is like, no, I'll definitely help. You just have the wrong impressions of what I'm capable of. I'd also like to highlight. Why didn't he say that? If you if you're sitting next to him at this point in the film where she offers the lightsaber and he's like, no. And you go, hey, Luke, why did why didn't you do that? And he's like, she wants me to be this this hero that can knock out like an army of 80s or whatever. She thinks I can just win this war. It's crazy. And you're like, no, I think she just I think she just wants you to try and help. Like, could you do that? And then he's like, no, can't because, you know, reasons just can't. Like, oh, oh, well, you know, just turning up and being like, hey, what's happening guys and going on missions to try and make things better. No, that's all out of it because he can't what be the hero that everyone expects him to be. Okay, I guess I guess to Luke, it's more important that he disappoints them completely than just disappoints them a little bit. Yeah, better to be nothing than to fail it being incredible. But then you finally decides the end of the film. It's okay to fail. Yeah, I guess. You think he may have known that already, but no, no. Someone said the force. Ray Googled it. He wrote a sword that he's been refusing because now he accepts that role again. It's also the sword that rejected Kylo Ren. He didn't reject Kylo Ren. The sword rejected him. Yeah, it's the lights. It doesn't think it's a tool. Dude, as it flows past Kylo, it has like little hands that come out, pushing away like, yeah. Not fucking stormbringer. It's a regular ass lightsaber. It just like spits on him as it goes. Fuck you. As it flies past its head, it just activates and chops its head in half. Okay. The lightsabers get names now and they're like pets and they make decisions on who they're loyal to. They're not just. I mean, they're just extensions of the force rags and the force controls everything. It literally controls who wins and loses. All right. It's great. Yeah, it's great. It belongs to me. It doesn't and Luke is rubbing his face in it. He even presents himself exactly as Kylo Ren last saw him. What? All that Ben has wanted to do from the start is kill Luke just like Vader killed Obi-Wan. I want that map. Yeah, no, that's clear. The motivation is that he thinks that like Luke is the reason that everything went to shit, right? In his memory, he sees Luke as this monster that tried to murder him. I don't know how in Kylo's head that justifies him murdering a bunch of innocent people, but that is his motivation to try and find and kill Luke. Okay. I just want to highlight, by the way. I think we mentioned this earlier, just the whole Luke being like, kind of being like, you're here to save my soul? That looks like no. Luke, maybe don't do it that way. This guy's the reason why you locked yourself away on an island and cut yourself off from the force. You think quote unquote meeting him like this would be like a big deal because you're not treating it like it's a big deal. In fact, you kind of treat it like three times as sort of like a joke. What a pity. His anger is his biggest weakness and exploits it. Not just to buy time, but as a final lesson. For the second film in a row, Kylo is left knowing that this path has ruined him. Yeah, it's almost like he just keeps flip flopping. Doesn't really know what he's doing. Crazy. What a poor guy. Look how much it upset him to see his ex- ex- mother- His father's ex-girlfriend. Yeah. He was like, man, why is this here? His ex-mother. My brain's clearly not realizing the connection there. It's just like, yeah, ex-mother, that makes sense. Luke is saving the resistance on a literal level, but he's also title of the scene. No, he's not. What do you mean? There wasn't a way out until Ray made one. Yeah, Ray's order saved him. And he didn't tell anyone about that, including Ray because he probably didn't know himself. But he was just pretty much just like, oh, I hope you figure something out. Meme repository just said the dice rejected him too. The dice spit on him. He's like, stop it. Why is he doing this? He's together. He understands that erasing the history of the Jedi won't serve future generations. That the lessons of their failures will only help Ray forge that new path. He's accepted that his hero myth is more important to the galaxy than anything else he can give. Yeah, it's pretty crazy that he didn't have these conclusions already. It's like, he got drove into this position arbitrarily and insane. It's just through insane means. I don't know. It's like having all these great realizations that the Jedi aren't all bad. They can be inspiring. Like in all these other things, you're just like, wait, why wasn't this the status quo? Why did we, why weren't we here already? That it doesn't really matter if he is that hero or not. It's been shown. How do you think the myth happened by him doing heroic things? It kind of goes back to what was said before. Why would he? It's like, it's not even really about the myth part. Luke should want to do what's right. He should want to save his sister. For the Jedi reason. And stop. Like if anything, for no reason other than he loves Leia and he wants to protect his sister, that he should like get his rear and gear and do stuff. Of course, can be draining. I can't. They're not doing this. The effort will kill you. Luke knows he won't survive this, but that his legend will. When the resistance fails and the spark of hope dies, Luke becomes the spark. Oh, could it would have been if they like escaped just as he was heading outside? And like there was no story because they're just like, I don't really know what he did. We just left. Yeah. It's like, yeah, we left. And I never saw him again. I guess he died, but even even if they did, I still find it ridiculous that any of them could actually know what even happened. It's weird. He's walked out. I mean, that's what but that's what the first order would say we killed Luke Skywalker. Yeah, that's what would be the accepted story in the galaxy. The model objective is that of saving a people or saving a person or saving an idea. Something that he just didn't want to do in the time between this film and when he tried to bid a Kylo for no reason. Weird. Yeah. I love how there's all these arguments about how he's like totally in character. And it's like, what about all that other stuff? And it's like, well, I that was because. Look, the two sons. Do you see? That means it's good. Two sons, two sons. Yeah, this is. Yeah. This poet rhymes. Yeah. That's the morality of it. I mean, that's where it ended. We're half an hour. We nearly there. We nearly did it. At the end of the film, we can see the impact of Luke's decision. Nope. Yeah. It is baffling. It is fucking baffling. How would this be the story to tell as opposed to Luke who went up all the way to the center of the Death Star or whatever and fought Vader himself, defeated him and then stood up to the emperor instead of just like, I don't know, like this weird story where he teleported to an island that he wasn't actually on. Sorry, not on the planet. And then something happened. Not really sure he disappeared. It was weird. Question mark. And like I said, God forbid, the stormtrooper side of the story comes out. Yeah. How did these kids learn about this through who? Who told them 20 people on there's 20 people on a ship versus the first in their propaganda. They put it on the website of Jedi dot org or whatever. Okay. I would love to ask somebody like, how did these kids learn about that to tell Leia made a message. She sent it out to everybody. Yeah, it makes sense. Not long after the battle, the kids are re-enacting what happened on crate. Oh, that must be impressive. He's given a new generation hope. And because Star Wars fans fall over themselves to willfully misinterpret everything in the most literal way possible, people thought this was about setting up a broom boy trilogy. What? It's about wearing John's broom boy socks as Disney. Why couldn't why can't it be this? Why can't it be that he's going to be in a film later? I'm pretty sure that we do that. Jenny Nicholson did this tweet recently. So as far as I understood it, the issue with broom boy is that everyone's fucking annoyed that the the inspiration for the galaxy is coming from this weird story where Luke teleported and then disappeared on a planet as opposed to all the other stuff that he did that just three years ago. Yeah, as opposed to this the original trilogy of events. Poe destroying the star killer base. Like that happened a few days ago and apparently this is more important. This is more meaningful. It's like how come they're not idolizing Poe as the galactic hero of the of this war? Why Luke? Like Poe did these things a few days ago, essentially. Yeah, I mean surely Poe's story would actually be way more impressive. Way more impressive. He's not even a Jedi. Yeah, the machine that destroyed five planets Poe Dameron was able to destroy. And yeah, the idea that there were people saying like it's clearly broom boy trilogy coming up. It's like, I mean it could happen. Yeah, it's not unreasonable. It's just a kid setting up a broom boy trilogy. New hints about wearing John's broom boy socks. Has Disney canceled broom boy? Ten reasons the broom boy trilogy is going to fail. Most YouTubers I've seen ignore the mythology and totally miss the point as a result. They ignored the mythology? Oh my God. Yeah. Oh my goodness. You misrepresented the movies how many times? You misrepresented science how many times? You're going to tell us that we're the ones that ignore the mythology. Fuck you. What a crime. What a terrible YouTuber. I'm sorry. I know I'm terrible too but Christ from one terrible person to another, you suck. Everybody, can you believe all these people actually looking at what's in the film and not extrapolating this to some crazy myth or message or theme? They're actually going by what their eyes saw. What a bunch of losers. They didn't reference the law at all. Sorry. The myth. The law would have made it some sense not referencing the myth itself. That's their flaw. They're fucking idiots. Zolt. That was a lot of weird shit going on. This is bizarre. This didn't seem like a single of vision. This seemed like the vision of producers who were making a property for money because they acquired it. So it's the weird idea of an eccentric filmmaker and the corporate committee project. The fact that they reuse the OT music to just pluck those heart strings, you really think that's not completely motivated by being like, remember the OT, remember it, pay for this movie? Does he think that if Disney knew that this would do this, if they knew ahead of time that if Ryan Johnson goes ahead with this, it would split the fan base this way and the next Star Wars film they released would lose money? Do you think they'd still give them the green light on everything? Do you think they'd do that? Yeah, for clarification, they want the thing that'll please the most and make the most money. I think we'd all agree on that. When they hand it off to a director slash writer, they're gambling, which is fine. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. It's just that this guy, he had his own ideas. Not to mention, he's still trying to appeal to like absolutely money maker. Of course he wants to make money. I'm not going to say it's 100% soulless. I think Ryan was trying to achieve something somewhere that he would consider meaningful. I just don't think that he achieved it. I think he failed miserably. But the idea that Disney being the fucking patent IP holders, of course, they're going to, there's not just not just Ryan's involved, right? A shit ton of people. A shit ton of people. Lots of them ticking boxes that mean it should do X, Y, and Z money-wise. Why do you think Palpatine is in the next film? Oh, because of the creative storytelling, that's the only reason it's got nothing to do with people being like, holy shit, Palpatine? Man, I remember Palpatine. Oof, they acquired it. So it's the weird idea of an eccentric filmmaker and the corporate committee project. The soulless corporate decision would have been to do easy fan service. Not a lot. Why do you keep calling it fan service for characters that care about each other to be with each other? I don't understand. It's baffling. It's only called, they wouldn't have called it fan service before TLJ came out. It would have just been the logical progression of events of the film. It would have been just reasonable stuff that happens. Like Luke just goes to see Han in a scene and this guy is like, fucking fan service, man. These two would never speak to each other after the original trilogy. No. All of this weird shit. Poe Dameron, he's the only character in this movie with an arc. All right, let's see. Puts her past aside in order to move forward as the sole heir to the Jedi legacy. Does she? No, she doesn't. Near the end of the film, she's still asking about her parents. So, nope. All right, so let's move to Luke. Overcomes his failure by resurrecting his legend and saving the goddamn universe. No, he hasn't saved anything yet. I suppose you can call that an arc. The problem is the beginning. It's completely arbitrary. It's been set from nowhere. It's like, almost like saying like A is B at the beginning and it turns into C. And it's like, yeah, our problem is that A can't be B. So, you know. All right. So, we have Ben. Abandoned his escape of the first order and accepts his place as a resistance hero. I guess you could summarize the events of Historylight that way. It's just that they're all really tizzy-by. Yeah, that's how we got there. That's a huge issue. Can I just... I love the answers, the call to adventure on Rose. Okay. Discovers her potential. Her potential is really shit. Like, what a worthless person to have with you. Like, actually, Rose Tico is a worthless person to have. What do you mean? She like grew. She prevented the saving of everyone. How is that bad? That's pretty impactful. Oh, if anything, she's counterproductive. And let's see. Kylo Ren breaks free of Snoke's manipulation and sets his future on his own path. And that's not true at all. He breaks free of Snoke's manipulation and becomes Snoke. Pretty much. He keeps going down the exact same path. He doesn't make his own path. He just becomes Snoke. He just replaces Snoke. That's not true at all. Wow, this is... This is a really shitty video. Mr. Plinkit, the internet's foremost critic of the prequels, spent the first half of his review struggling to invent plot holes. So you say to yourself, I guess it doesn't really matter how the first order found the rebel base, right? But you know, it adds something. Okay. So, um, the... There... This is... He's right by it right now. What happened is an... I actually spoke to ER about this as well because he did the same thing. At the beginning of TLJ, the first orders show up. Now, some people were like, Hey, what the fuck? How did they find him? That's bullshit. The base that they're on at the beginning of TLJ is the same base they were on in TFA, which was the base that was about to get fired at by the Starkiller base. And they'd found it and stuck in TFA. There's a scene where Hux just walks in the room and says, We have found them. Blah, blah, blah. So, naturally, they know what that base is. Now, agreed. He's right. This is a mistake with Plinkett and ER's reviews. Um, so that is less than 1% of their points are now invalid. Mm-hmm. All right. What else you got? Because he just said he's inventing plot holes. Um, that's... What about all the other actual plot holes? I was gonna say, bit of a harsh interpretation, right? I'm happy for you to have that interpretation instead of it being a mistake he made. You're saying, like, you look at him, he's inventing plot holes. But I'm curious now if you're gonna talk about all the ones he got right or not. I don't know. Yeah. You mean the guy who deliberately leaves things out to support his arguments might only focus on the things that will support his arguments? I am certain he's going to clarify his position and say that Plinkett did highlight some plot holes that were relevant and accurate. Then he just made a mistake with this one. I'm sure that's what he's gonna do. Oh, I definitely. I guess it doesn't really matter how the First Order found the Rebel base, right? But you know, it adds something. That was in the last movie. We have their location. We tracked their reconnaissance ship to the elite system. Yeah, he's right. That's a mistake. Why are they even bothering chasing down an elderly lady and all of her friends? The fuck are they gonna do? They did just blow up their incredibly important weapon. You might remember it as a little thing. Yeah, so, uh, what Plinkett's getting at is that, uh, if they're this all-powerful, huge, uh, force that can, like, spread across the galaxy, why are they chasing this small selection of people? Like, surely they've got shit tons of enemies to deal with. Like an empire to run? Yeah. A galaxy to conquer? That was part of the confusion. It's like, shouldn't they be, like, Snoke is literally here and he's got, like, what seems to be his entire fleet. Like, what are they doing? They're just chasing these guys? Like, okay, just let a star destroyer do it, I guess. Yeah, sure. You, a star destroyer, A and B destroy them. The rest of our fucking massive millions and millions strong army, we're gonna start going to planets and stuff, like, establishing dominance in the galaxy. It's strange that they have so many people, uh, go after them like this. I don't, I don't think it's valid to say that this is a completely relevant point. I think there's a conversation to be had. Think of the climax of a fucking film. But this is the important part. If you add an echo effect, it makes you more... It was funnier. He's funny. Shut up. The last time we saw Luke and here's how the film should have ended. Join me. I agree. You probably noticed that Titanic didn't end after hitting the ice party. It's based on a real event, you retard. Titanic's not a trilogy, you cunt. Titanic isn't a trilogy. It tells a completely different story. Wow. How do you compare these two like that? What? In every sense of context, that is a completely different story. Imagine comparing fucking Titanic to Star Wars. How do you do that? How do you say the ending of the second film should be representative of the end of a singular film? Also, how would you... The trilogy, I mean. How is it even a counter if someone says, I think this is probably in the realm of the subjective where the film should have ended at this offer and then the silence? It's like, that would have been a pretty nifty little cliff hanger. I mean, it would have been nifty or we all know Ray would have said no. But it would have been a nifty little idea, you know? Because for starters, it would maybe give them a reason to not have Crate be a thing and Crate is a disaster on every level. Genuinely though. But I wouldn't have gone... Yeah. If Titanic was a trilogy, I could totally picture the end of the second Titanic film being when the ice pig hits. Absolutely. The first episode, it establishes why everyone... Why are they going to where they're? Why are they going to America? Why are these characters interacting with one another? What are their motivations? What are their relationships with one another? You continue that and to the second film where things are starting to break down and maybe you've got some interpersonal dialogue that insist that, no, maybe relationships are breaking up and whatnot. And then, boom, all of a sudden iceberg hits and then you know you have a whole movie to devote to how all of these characters deal with this tragedy that's after. I think it'd be pretty interesting actually. I think it would be too. We could even be due for a new interpretation of Titanic and it could be a trilogy... The three-part mini-series. Yep, why not? Your point is hilarious. I love it. You know what? Why the hell did they end Empire Strikes Back where they did? Do they know nothing about how Titanic didn't end? What idiots? What fools? Titanic... So now, so like, are these saying that ending any middle thing on a cliffhanger is bad because Titanic? I can't actually express how titanically stupid this point is. It's fucking dumb. That should have been the last time we saw Luke and here's how the film should have ended. Join me. You probably noticed that Titanic didn't end after hitting the iceberg and Seven Samurai didn't end when the bandits arrived at the village. It's not a trap. It's not a trilogy. It's not a trilogy. It doesn't work this way. Because we know there's going to be another movie in a few years to resolve all of this stuff. It's a cliffhanger to keep us interested and it makes sense in the universe. It doesn't break any temporal rules in the Star Wars universe to have a break between movies here. What is he getting at? What's his point? Before resolving the threads you just spent two hours building up is a terrible idea. What? Someone could only suggest this if they didn't even know those threads are there. I was like, oh yeah, it worked really well the way they did it. There you go. Oh yeah. Plink it only... They knocked it out of the park. Plink it only suggested it because he wasn't even aware of the plot threads that were actually in the film. I just love all these like bitter stabs. Yay. Why don't you like TLJ? Yeah. You just don't understand films. You don't get how stories work. You don't like themes. You aren't smart enough to understand. I'm going to put that I can tell actually. He goes wrong and hears a lot. People who like cliff hangers probably didn't know that Titanic didn't end with the ice big hitting the boat. Super chat's really good. Infinity War ended on a massive cliff hanger and in-game hype sane. Well, yeah, well, maybe it shouldn't have because Titanic with the Russo have the Russo seen Titanic? I don't think so. I don't think they're aware of it. I don't think they have if they had seen Titanic they would have known they would not end on the same cliff hanger. That's a terrible point. Two hours building up is a terrible idea. Someone could only suggest this if they didn't even know those threads are there. Who the fuck knows what's going on? People only seem to think about Yeah. Who the fuck does know what's going on? After you after 32 minutes of your guide I'm still confused as to what the fuck was going on in TLJ. The film in terms of how much they hate it they'll make fun of Leah flying through Yes. Yeah. Because it was it looked ridiculous. A little R2D to breathe. Your space or point out an extra in the background that isn't doing what they should be. Yeah. Because it's terrible choreography. Yeah. I don't really care if this is on someone's firing this laser would have won the war. Yeah. But they didn't have any motivation to shoot an empty pod. Yeah. They literally thought that it was empty. So why would they waste ammo on it? That's probably just why I do it. Is that should be fire? Is that not reason? Yeah, like why? They had already shot at the ship. So it stood to reason that they would believe that there was a malfunction in one of the escape pod. And this and this is a dumb rabbit hole. Anyway, this isn't the last Jedi. This is another movie we're not talking about. This ladies and gentlemen is called Water Bouchism. They've got to. They've got to be like, oh yeah. Well, this other thing bad in this other place in this other time this movie from 30 years ago that has not very good. My goodness. You murdered this innocent person. Yeah. Well, murderers have killed people planning over time. Oh. Okay. And if anything is like don't you think we shouldn't make mistakes that they made back then? What's the point here? That it's okay to continue making mistakes? Like what's the point? What are you trying to get at? You're just hating. You guys are just hating. Yes. It's a big circle joke. Something. A list of forbidden last Jedi defenses. It's true. An entire legion of my best. Yes. Because people usually defend this part of the OT. People are often saying that the Ewok attack of the Stormtroopers made complete sense. We've ever loved it. It's not like the sixth film is often considered the worst of the three. All of that is invented. Rogue One seems to be more what most people meant when they said they wanted movies like the originals again. Movies that remind us of the originals, that look like the originals, but not movies that are actually written like them. We've got Star Wars exactly where we want it. Don't fuck with it. Show us the stuff we've seen before, doing the stuff we've seen before. I don't know. Is he aware that a lot of people don't like Rogue One? Yeah, a lot of people don't. I don't really like it. I think it's fine mostly. I'm not a huge fan. This is weird. He's like... And again, this isn't the whole thing like you can't change anything or you can't add things to it. You just respect the old shit. He's appealed to Plinkett being wrong. Plinkett plus the half of the bad guys. Like they spearheaded how bad Rogue One was. They made loads of videos. They had to respond to their fan base with additional videos trying to explain why Rogue One's bad because they got such backlash. I just like... Come on, man. Come on. We gotta be consistent here. Also, yeah, he did... I'm assuming he's not going to now. But he didn't mention how much Plinkett got right in terms of plot holes. He just said that he invented them. And how many examples did he come up with? Was it one? Yeah. And what, how long was that? Does that remind you of anybody like, oh, was it Quinton Reviews saying, look at the stuff Mola complains about in his five-hour review and then I talk about a piece of dialogue and he's like, see? Craziness. So it is... So Plinkett, the last Jedi review is a 58 minute... 58 minutes. You found one minor thing and one thing that still holds up, quite frankly. So... And so... 58 minutes. Yeah. A bit disappointing, but there we are. Yeah. Where no one gets hurt. Yeah, because nobody was saying the layer looked like porcelain and the grammar of talking was terrifying and uncanny valley. Nobody was saying that. Everyone loved it. Being a hypocrite about this since I nitpick things all the time. It's what YouTube is for. But when I dislike something, I make a genuine effort to understand why it turned out that way. Did you? Okay. Is there some kind of appeal I'm missing? Am I seeing it from all sides? Yeah. Practically nothing is complete. I don't think anyone I don't think anyone has ever said that all of the changes are terrible. And the... He's got to be... Can't say I've ever heard that. I think even the people who hate everything about it would probably concede that there was some stuff they thought was fine. Oh, look, it's about... You guys... Oh, we'll tell you what. I need to use the loo. So I'll be back. All right. Look, everyone, it's Robot Head, Moeller and Vito. We're all here. And I'm sure we're going to get something disparaging said about us in a moment. How exciting. Always fun. Also, we started really early with this one, right? And we're nearly six hours. I wonder if this is the longest time we've spent on a video, but in fairness, the video is 40 minutes or almost. Yeah. Man, I'm glad. It's almost kind of... cozy, not cozy. What's the word I'm trying to look for? It's fun that two years later to see that TLJ fans are just as stupid as they were. Two years ago. Making the same fucking arguments, too. You're all all right. We're almost done, at least. Almost there. We're getting there. Wow, that was the quickest kiss I've ever seen from all sides. Really? Well, you were gone for only like 20 seconds. It was pretty quick. All right, I just went and did my business and wiped my hands and came back. Hey, check it out. Jacob's quest said, I've never come across a plot hole in TLJ that hasn't been directly explained in the movie itself or a piece of material that has existed for years. Okay, disappearing knife on Ray. Done. We can move on now. All right. Practically nothing is completely bad and devoid of value. Except for your video. Considerations like this separate good criticism from bad. Oh, get fucked, Vito. Bad criticism. Yeah, it's only 95% bad, not 100%. When you are calm, at peace. I didn't really like the last Jedi when leaving the theater. It's like the second and third act of a trilogy wedged together. And with Disney rushing the films out in just two years, it's inevitable that a movie this ambitious will turn out on even. I don't think anyone finds the Kanto bite stuff as interesting as Luke and Ray's story. Oh, that cuts off people's hands. It's finally talking about Kanto bite. Thank goodness. Yay. I thought the movie was funny, but they may have gone too far in a few places. Oh my goodness. He's actually making some, he's conceding some things. Thank God. Well, he just didn't understand the themes of Kanto bite. So there. For a few details, I wish I could change, like Rose smashing into Finn with enough force to kill them both. I like that that doesn't destroy any of it for him. He's like, no, it's fine. They were just lucky. It's fine. Oh, and by the way, on this pause, can you see what looks, it looks like guns. Looks like the potential for a gunner there. Can you see that? It looks like some kind of, maybe you don't have the same screenshot as me, but it looks like there could be a gun on that ship that there was actually lasers on the ships they were driving on crate. Maybe. I don't know. Maybe. Maybe. But I didn't rush to judge it. The more I thought about it, the richer I realized the storytelling was. And yet the more we think about it, the fucking more thinner and puddlier it becomes. Weird how that works. Almost like there's one side that does think about it and another that doesn't. What are you? What? How could you say? Wow. He was the one who said that we need to pay more attention. Okay. So maybe you're wrong. Okay. Peace. And the fault started to seem comparatively petty. And when listening to Ryan Johnson talk about it, everything I was thinking lined up perfectly. Oh, so it was exactly what you thought it was, I guess. Also. What do you know? Do you remember the quote from Ryan where he was like, have you had any of the criticism at even fair? No. No. I studied all the religions and it just so happens the one that I was born with is the completely correct one. I like it because it's what Ryan Johnson said it was and I guess I was right. Reminds me of, remember when Major Lee says- This is confirmation bias? Yeah. Major Lee said to us that well in his video, right, he said like everybody sucks because they're all making their own little specific things they wanted out of TLJ and they didn't get it. And then he said in his own TFA video that he wanted Ray's parents to be nobody and that he was really happy that he turned out to be right. And it was like, wait. Do you say they're all just upset because they would they didn't get what they wanted. But that was what you wanted. You got it. It's just as arbitrary, isn't it? It's like, nope. Really well done. And poor guy, she's going to be Emperor Palpatine's daughter his granddaughter and anyone. She's not going to be nobody at all. It's going to be like the most somebody you can possibly get. Poor guy. That if he brings the Jedi back into this then the Sith are going to rise up again and the whole thing is going to start again. It's just going to- The Sith are currently risen up, you dumbass. Yeah. In the last movie, they destroyed five planets, by the way. I don't know if you were there. I don't know if you like watched any of the source material. Imagine this is this group of people going around house by house gunning people down. And I'm like, Rags, can you team up with me to try and shoot back of them? And then you go, well, if we do that, what if more bad guys show up? I'm like, uh. Yeah. It's a good point. I never thought of it in that perspective. I guess we'll let everyone die. I don't know. I guess we'll just die. Wouldn't want to help contribute. That's the important thing. That if he brings the Jedi back into this, then the Sith are going to rise up again. And the whole thing is going to start again. And it's just that's retarded. How come the interviewer didn't slap you? I really wish you were there as the interviewer. He finishes that sentiment and you're like, that's retarded. Well, you don't understand the fucking force, Rags. Okay. For one of the people who hates this movie, nothing I've said has changed your mind. And that's fine. I understand a lot of the complaints and even share a few of them. Hey. I get that not everyone is as forgiving as I am. Hey, get it? Because that's a Vader reference. Remember? All right. Remember? Yeah. But if you take anything from this, it's to take it down a notch. The backlash is originating from a place of love for the series. But I don't think fans realize how vicious and hateful it gets when it all pulls together. I don't fucking care. The kind of shit that we've been called, like, I want you to understand, we have been called Nazis because we don't like this stupid fucking movie. We've also been accused of harassing Kelly Marie Tran off of social media, even though we literally never did that. Three of us personally have been called misogynists. I've had somebody who desires to kill me. Personally, they've said they're desperate to kill me. It's like, I would not take it down a notch. Absolutely not. They clarified that they simply want me to disappear. They don't want to kill me. After literally saying I want to kill Mahler because he doesn't like The Last Jedi, the people who like this movie are literally mentally insane. Well, this is the thing I would say there's fucking crazy people all over the place to try and be like, Hey guys, who don't like TLJ? Calm down. It's like, uh, no, how about? Oh, yeah, yeah. It's about everyone. Everyone who don't like it, who should calm down is like, sure thing. Have you seen the psychopaths on your side? Crafted an alternate universe where The Last Jedi wasn't a critical and commercial success where Ryan Johnson hasn't continued to have a great career. What do you think that means? Michael Bay's got a successful career after like a billion Transformers movies. Does that mean? What does that mean to you? Yeah, I don't give a shit about Ryan Johnson. I don't think Tommy Wiseau is successful. He made the world successful. Ever made. It doesn't matter. Money means absolutely fucking nothing. And where everyone hates the film as much as they do. In that echo chamber, Mark Hamill supposedly hates the movie and Ryan Johnson over his initial disagreement on the No, I'm not going to claim he hates the movie and he hates Ryan Johnson. I'm going to say he's made several very interesting and downright substantive criticisms of the film. That's that's my take. And I also think more cast members coming out and saying the same as days go by. Who knows what's going to happen in the future? People tried to harass John Boyega for misinterpreting a quote he made recently about social media because Kelly Marie Tran who to this day has never confirmed that she left social media over harassment. Yeah. All because of that they tried to harass John Boyega for like saying if you're not strong enough to be on social media then don't be on social media. I mean like you just shouldn't be on social media. Like that's just my advice just fucking stay away. That's partly why I'm leaving. I can't take it anymore. Luke. They don't mention this part. Having seen the movie I was wrong. He's always right. He's always right. But he was always right. I'm firmly. Do you like how he cut the whole I was wrong? So what was he referencing specifically about being wrong about? Yeah. And I find that very curious that like how do we separate out which statement would be the one that he's more behind if he literally had two conflicting statements? Yeah, because we have that. It happens. So which one's real? The one that supports you? I'm like okay. It's very convenient. And we have to take in the fact that typically speaking they're not encouraged to be critical of the movies they're a part of. So him speaking out like that pretty big. Yeah. Ian, Ryan. But when he toes the line he even called it an all time great film. It doesn't sound like that narrative pans out. It's often said that the sequel trilogy had no You should look into all of the clips regarding Mark Hamill's position on TLJ. A plan and that Ryan Johnson ruined everything JJ Abrams set up. Like JJ shot himself in the foot Ryan then took the gun and shot JJ in the head. So you could call that ruining it. He could have taken him to the hospital could have put a bit of wheelchair and helped about but no. I know I've heard people say that it ruined TFA. I'd like to think about it because I think that if you have if you're dealing with TFA it's tough biggest problem being will building. But I think that you can actually make a sequel to TFA that makes TFA worthwhile in a trilogy if you know what I mean. I mean that's the whole reason we bothered watching season eight of Game of Thrones. We were waiting for an ending that would have made the bad seasons worth it. Pretty much. There's always some repairs you can do. I'm not saying it was possible to like make a great trilogy when you have a start like TFA but once you get the middle being TLJ. I just want to also say I saw recently that D&D are going to be adapting an HP Lovecraft but yet Guillermo del Toro who's been begging for years to be allowed to do and at the mountains of madness movie he's literally the first denied I would have for I would not pick. I would literally not pick anybody else. I can't think of anyone else who could do a Lovecraft movie better than del Toro and he's been denied it again and again and again but D&D are gonna get it. Aren't you guys excited to see D&D's take on Lovecraft? Sure we all are. Father great job. Time great film. Doesn't sound like that narrative pans out. It's often said that the sequel trilogy had no plan and that Ryan Johnson ruined everything JJ Abrams set up. I literally didn't have a plan. But there was an arc set for the trilogy. No there wasn't. As JJ said he loved Ryan's script. Well there was the quote from Daisy saying that there was notes that Ryan ignored. But that's not really a No no I agree. I'm just saying that uh if you know rags creates the first of a trilogy and desperately asks me to continue it he has notes it's not like I'm gonna be like fuck you rags I'm gonna make my own film. It just seems like a stupid decision anyway because it'd be like oh it's probably gonna be confused if you just do your own thing. Might just give the notes a gander that's all I'm saying. He didn't make it himself. That the film didn't disrupt the ending he planned. And that he was inspired by the last Jedi to be bold. Is this up to date with what else JJ has said about the film? Hasn't he come out recently with something like really damning about TLJ or at least partially damning? Yeah it's almost like these people on fire about it for days. These people are they're just too sighted all the time they talk about this and it's oh it's great oh it's so much oh it's great oh it's not so much that's great no it's not so much. With his final film I've seen claims that it only has good reviews because Disney bribed everyone. No I'm not I don't need that to be the truth I think that Rotten Tomatoes critics are terrible. Yeah. They have no standards at all they just flip flop around going yeah this film's cool this film's cool. Yeah Rotten Tomatoes critics say that Batwoman is better than Joker. Yeah they can go fuck themselves. When in reality it's the audience reviews that are dubious because of the review bombing campaign. This is the thing I really hate like they don't understand what a review bomb actually fucking is. No a bunch of people were mad because the movie sucked and they gave it a bad review it's not a review bomb you unintelligent simpleton. It's also no more force. Yeah I'm fine with that down with Disney. Sure give us legends. Yeah sure it was what does this have to do with the last Jedi. I was going to say bold claim bold of you to say we shouldn't trust the audience we should trust the critics reviews it's like yeah it's like I mean it's not that I say we should trust the audience at all it's just judging on its own merits but to say no the professional critics they're the ones you're going to get right and I'm like there you go that was I guess part of JJ's quote I don't know if Star Wars fans go into the movies to be told that this doesn't matter in reference to TLJ I don't think anyone who has any standards for writing goes into any kind of story being told this doesn't matter or wanting to be told it doesn't matter the absolute rock bottom of the fan base no we know again absolutely no confirmation of this at all doesn't even matter if it was true people get driven off social media for all kinds of reasons all the time in all different ways just because it happened to her does not mean that suddenly people who don't like TLJ are assholes Kelly Marie Tran's a shit actress by the way just wanted to say that it's targeted Kelly Marie Tran with racist and sexist harassment until she had been Qin Chong Wing Tong what someone actually put that in a in a Wikipedia page Qin Chong Wing Tong it's a dumbass character hold on this is made and this is stupid autistic and retarded love interest she better die in the coma because she's a dumbass where is this like I would have seen this I guess it might not be up anymore but this is apparently on here Wikipedia page oh my god are you saying that on the video because I'm only oh shit sorry let's drag it back the absolute rock bottom of the fan oh my god it's targeted Kelly Marie Tran with racist and sexist harassment you see that Qin Chong Wing Tong is a dumbass fucking this is the character made it is a stupid autistic retarded love interest for him she better die in the coma because she's a dumbass I love her quote what's her quote where is it hail hitler and I don't know why I was casted in a good movie biographical information homeworld Qin Chong born Qin Chong 000 quiet homeworld chik chik chik chik chik that's so shit oh my god how do you point to this and go like look at this racist harassment I just be like what is this oh my god all right where's the lie oh man that's hilarious whoever did this is a true meme warrior I salute you sir wingtong rasped until she abandoned instagram you know what I agree Ryan Johnson and I think it's about let's see I think it's about time that Robert Downey Jr plays the Martin Luther King biopic that we've always needed and quite frankly if you respond to diversity negatively then fuck you Ryan Johnson oh no how do I get dealt this Qin Chong wingtong was the worst character in Star Wars history oh man I was like I can't wait no I'm gonna call you racist when you do no I mean I'll say Qin Chong wingtong and I'll show Jar Jar Binks or something they'll still call you racist how do I do it that's not in a not racist way I was how do I do this show uh who are the like Asian stereotypes from the prequels oh had like nemodians yeah the new new new mode yeah there you go you could say well George did it first when I say Qin Chong wingtong is the worst character should I show them yeah it's always saying that's gonna be super racist I'll get 17 points of racism it'll be worth it to reference this stream the left social media all together Jar Jar's actor Ahmed Betz contemplated suicide after the backlash to his character George Lucas posed the question why would I want to make any more films whenever when he yells at you yeah I've hit all these arguments too yeah I don't care whenever you make something that's big there will always be people who don't like it I don't fucking care that's part of doing something and being famous I literally do not give a shit I don't give a shit I don't care you have a bajillion million dollars in a mansion my ability to sympathize with you is somewhat lessened by mean things people say on the internet yeah I guess our mistake Greg's not doing a whole stream where the three of us just keep showing for like hours on end all the horrible things people said to us and then we just leave every single possible social media platform because apparently that's the way to actually be taken seriously by these people like as if because it doesn't happen to people unless it's announced like I really hate this idea that the people who like TLJ didn't harass anyone bullshit even even though that's what they've been doing with John Boyega and JJ Abrams this is what I mean so do you remember what happened when Luke tweeted out the picture of the original cast together but old if you know what I mean yeah yeah the fucking roasted him yeah and all he was this is so biased and what what actually pisses me off is that I've seen this argument a million times already but he's made this video relatively recently he should have all of the information and yet he's still going with the one side it's like nah it's just the haters man just the fucking haters boo me that I'm a terrible person all the time and yeah why would anyone put themselves in the crosshairs of this fanbase oh no people say mean things about me on the internet no I mean okay oh how can you deal with that it's impossible yeah just search Ryan Johnson's name and you'll see a never-ending stream of vitriol yeah why do you think people think why do you think people are going to him yeah why do you think people think it's so shit why do you think Ryan Johnson in particular seems just like an asshole of a person maybe he said things and done things that just piss people off maybe saying that to a large group of people will get some backlash here's my boy utterance twisted into a new way of attacking him and in spite of that he's super naturally unfazed and positive about the fans except hold on except for all the instances on twitter where he attacks the fans no that no no or in his new movie how he made a character specifically mocking the people who don't like TLJ yeah totally not mad bro no you guys are that quote from that video he just showed where he was like yeah people don't like diversity and fuck them I know right so if they make a if they make a movie retelling the rise of shock as Zulu and the Zulu empire if I don't see a bunch of Asians and white people and Inuits the Native Americans and quite frankly I and if you have a problem with that if there's no black people in it but there's everyone else that's pretty diverse and if you don't like it man then uh ah fuck you you say no to diversity the ones that aren't racist I mean it was the it was the happiest experience in my life you know everything the release of it the interactions with all the fans all of it you know people when people cared this deeply about something that's what happened yeah you can't you can't play this and act like Ryan's a great guy when he tells them to go fuck themselves all the time on social media so we get a compilation of all the tweets of vitriol that Ryan just and you know what this guy's response would be yeah well he has to deal with a lot of hate you're like oh oh is that how that works it's a wonderful and I feel very incredibly privileged you have just been a part of it you know I say I love this not to vilify anyone yes you are fuck off he's vilified a lot of people didn't you vilify plinket not that long ago yeah sure well sorry remember is a disclaimer we're supposed to be having fun guys you are you having fun it sounds fun comedic but to salvage whatever hope there is for you to enjoy this trilogy the finale is coming and who knows maybe it will retcon things and blow holes in my oh no we got that shit down we got that on lockdown at least he's aware that the fact that his video is gonna fall apart it's gonna age horribly not that it's currently not looking at anything other than moldy cheese but hey you know you could always get worse maybe it'll be great maybe it'll disappoint regardless of how it turns out this is your last chance at this instead of bringing all of the baggage and hostility with let's go see rise up skywalker no no we're gonna see rise of skywalker to laugh at laugh at it because of how humiliate that piece of shit forever destroying what a great ipu was a part of we don't i'm sorry why the hell should we respect something that doesn't respect the meteor it's a part of itself what why should it work that way we're just at the point right now where i just don't give a shit i want it to be terrible so i can just laugh at it and it'll be fun think about how audience has felt seeing the birth of the series back in 1970s and oh how i'm with them oh how wonderful it would have been to have seen a new hope in the cinema especially in the 70s man how wonderful that would have been ah better times seven relax your stranglehold and let the filmmaker have star wars for a few hours forget about your demands and rule books and go on the journey that they want to take you on consume film why are you just like i why do you not assume that we gave this film a chance we watched it we watched it we analyzed it and it's terrible how do you think we found out it was bad of course we gave it a chance we wanted it to be good it had absolutely no reason to believe going into the that it would be anything less than a good movie i still remember seeing the trailer for tlj and thinking holy shit this is gonna be great i actually saw the trailer it was pretty good i watched the trailers repeatedly for quite a while very invested was very excited and i got shot on so hmm and now the trailer's it wasn't until i left the theater and got in my car and was driving that i i hate a star wars movie like even as tizmy as the prequels were i never hated a star wars movie before this is the first time yeah oh it was definitely one of those like the anger started to broil over it was just like it was like it's pretty bad but it was like wait it's a fucking movie and then you know you read the leaks and you see the trailers for rise of skywalker i'm not gonna get tricked again that ain't happening i'm gonna go in with my expectations firmly set on what i've been shown let's go see rise of skywalker try to think about how audiences felt seeing the birth of the series back in 1977 i don't care about how the audiences felt in relation to rise of skywalker yeah i just don't care that literally does not mean anything yeah i don't care about next product because you're sorry i just don't i just don't care don't make her have star wars for a few hours forget about your demands another film maker that have star wars for a few hours if it's bad but it's because of your arbitrary law books that you're not enjoying this movie guys like if you just drop that for a second you could enjoy yourselves you dicks take you on and if you give it that chance and still don't like it by all means criticize it but do it fairly that's what we're doing is made by human beings who worked themselves half to death to give you the best care how hard they were oh my god i'm sure the people will actually know after reading the disaster artist i know for a fact that the people who worked on the room it worked very hard to put up with tommy for well over a year and you know it's a bad movie it's your character saying don't give in like as if the as if it you love a thing that's fine you hate a thing you've given in you gave up you went you went bad tizms why can't you just appreciate this product for what it is why'd you have to be so mean poor disney find what you have learned save you again that poor billion dollar corporation it works so hard to make this sludge why can't you just eat it i will i promise and with that i've ruined my channel oh you have i mean it's not a great start i would have put it out for me i think he's pretty bad he might have some good videos i have no idea and you know just for the sake of it don't be mean to this person guys he clearly has a very biased view on how it works with harassment so the last thing you need to do is give him ammo and saying that e-faps a harassment channel especially with how fucking new policies are going i'm sure he's a very nice man i think that his arguments are god awful and his evidence is very skewed yeah pretty uh pretty uh pretty terrible pretty terrible video definitely on the lower tiers of e-faps history this was one we recommended is one of the best i want to remind you guys that was the same fucking reason that we had to watch the major leeward people were saying that was the best argument video for why tlj is good they're all the fucking same that was this is this is terrible guys if you thought this was good i don't know to say pretty terrible hopefully we've elaborated in excruciating detail why this was a fucking garbage video but um where i guess we're pretty much onto total well i was gonna say that he's got 30 seconds guys let's give him that last oh yeah let's let's let's uh yeah let's wrap this up let's get the square space add in thanks everyone i'll be in the garbage oh yeah we know your video's garbage oh christmas music i mean i mean this is december this is december you get a pass you get a pass you get a pass on the christmas music it's all those christmas for reference wolf will be covered was it jesson's video it just ended with christmas music it was made in all this yeah i remember that and didn't he say he was like you know i i don't celebrate christmas that i don't care it's like i remember there being a bunch of people in the chat that were like of course he's a jew that's a racism they stole everything from me you're basically but i guess if this is just the end yeah it's all good and a little odd like i like i gotta guess there's nothing left to this video got three seconds nearly there and we did it and we're done now we can find now we can watch a quality we can go back to quality but that yeah we we did it i think that my i feel like that's gotta be one of the longest coverages we've ever had we started were we 20 minutes into the stream when we started i feel like it was early it was a long one guys we did it though i guess the quintent to our video will be the record for longest we've ever done but probably it only takes us to it only took us six hours yeah record timing let me pull up my calculator do you have an official time official stream time right now six hours and 12 minutes all right six times it's 12 it's 370 i could have done that my head i didn't head in my head faster as i press the button says very weird so 372 minutes and how many minutes were oh that's all oh the math works out actually pretty nicely there almost like a little why would we do how do we do oh well it's it's almost just about 10 minutes to one minute in terms of a response now granted we had an intro a little bit of an intro but yeah yeah under let's say about nine and a half nine minutes to his one minute so um all right bad so what we have left two tunneled videos not too long a lot of memes he's released more than one video well i've been made aware that what's what's the other channel he has rags you remember was upward something i think um upward strike oh is that it i think it's up oh i was hoping it was going to be an antonym of thrust whatever the opposite of that sort of thrust strike oh some people well that would be like a synonym dam that that video series he's running on there is not successful some people are saying that we should watch the channel trailer for upward strike but that was made a year ago that's not new i am outraged oh but it is to oh i can i just saw in the preview why people might want us to see it okay oh all right well we'll start with that and then we will go to classic tonald okay so this is year ago tonald first i'm more than excited he's a hero so old tonald tonaldi i'm not all the slow strike well it's a brand new kick-ass spin-off channel from downward thrust that's going to be featuring a whole bunch of cool videos i've got the persona being quite serious on downward there you go that's the picture guys oh we're back home we're safe uh i feel so so let loose on his channel and just do whatever the fuck i want people in this world make too much noise shut up upward strike is basically going to be my experimentation chamber sanctuary of sorts my chamber where i can just kind of express myself however i want temple of toe the temple of toe this is it this is the temple of tonal this is it this is if so if you're gonna worship then this channel is the temple of tonal where else would be more appropriate to send him your idolization i can't believe he actually created a temple specifically for his followers that's wonderful i really appreciate that it's amazing oh tonal meaning of it because although i would love to let loose on downward thrust we've got a persona to live up to you know we've got a we've got a standard over there upward strike is also going to be my quote-unquote dumping so this is this is tonal without standards the channel isn't there only four videos on this channel though tonal unfiltered i always there's literally four videos apparently this is experimentation hole plus his dumping ground this full video yeah he he hasn't made anything more than yeah he hasn't made anything in over a year it's unfortunate she answers the call too for videos i've made for downward thrust and i've decided not to put them on the main channel because i wasn't happy with them they wouldn't go over well or they just didn't adhere to our mission statement which is to create unique and interesting videos that you can't get anywhere else he just said they did they're not unique or interesting because they didn't manage to reach that uh that criteria everything you do is unique and interesting i mean don't don't put yourself down buddy you're the best content creator on youtube literally the best nobody could beat this man but here there's not going to be any standards we're just gonna go with the flow i can't believe he actually said and see what it takes us so join me on upward strike make sure to subscribe here for some awesome future free content yes because i truly care about bringing you the highest quality content and absolutely zero cost i care about bringing you the highest quality content with zero cost oh i love you man you're great thank you all i ask of you is to watch the small advertisement that will hopefully pop up on our videos and subscribe here as well as comment on all the videos saying that i did a great job even if you didn't think i did a great job that would be awesome that's all for now actually what i will say though is this one thing before i let you go what is it fuck cooked carrots oh my goodness oh my gosh this is a i didn't realize you were into that i had no idea tell me more i'll have to give it a try yeah i need to know what are your reasons about why i didn't know he had this his whole time how long has he harbored this vitriol and didn't need this skin for cooked carrots cooked carrots is a piece of the shit you prefer them raw so i don't is there anyone else out there who absolutely fucking hates which end do you like to insert best mushy carrots i don't know about you guys but when i go to sleep at night and i think about cooked carrots when he goes to sleep at night and thinks about cooked carrots man i'm thinking about like dick and video games i've played and shows i've watched and i i don't know i don't think about cooked carrots man i gotta i gotta write a delt quotes man before i go one more thing oh my goodness oh my god what is what is it no wonder they wanted us to cover this it gives me fucking nightmares cooked carrots give him nightmares because a raw carrots i've got nothing i've got no problems with the raw carrot i mean you dip that shit in some hummus delicious you can even eat it raw in a salad or something like that but as soon as you apply some sort of heats or you know liquid heats liquid heat liquid heat liquid heat yeah liquid heat that was my stage name boiling water i love it liquid heat thank you so much once you apply some liquid heat like hot water i guess liquid this is this is boiling water it's just like like he's for the rest of my life when i go out and tell someone that i'm just gonna be a minute i'm gonna take a shower i'm just gonna say i'll be a minute i'm gonna apply some liquid heat oh my god everything he makes is golden it's in the lore now that the greatest enemy of tonal is the cooked carrot cooked carrot so the meme the meme value of this video the temple of tonal the cooked carrot beowen beowen beowen make an image of carrot my of i don't know it's open to whatever interpretation you want but tonal needs to be afraid oh no wait actually got it do a picture of tonal like hiding from a carrot based off of the alien isolation cover art or ripley or poster i think i don't think it's the actual cover or ripley her daughter's like hiding from the alien fucking dreaded cooked carrot carrots and make it quote unquote cooked it transforms it from a perfectly acceptable food item or vegetable i guess why is this in your introduction to your second channel what are you thinking it's because tonal is like you know what people like people like when i'm when i'm spontaneous and kind of quirky so what can i do oh i don't like cooked carrots that's good enough is anything i guess whoa you could say to a monstrosity of epic proportions an absolutely disgusting piece of food that you should throw into trash what's up guys he's got a guitar i play a little bit of a song my god he's gonna play a song commemorate our opening of upward strike really excited about this channel as i am this lovely breed love guitar no this is not an average i don't know what i want more i don't know if i want herbal or if i want him to be really good what if he was what if he was godly please what if like this little tonal generally like the second coming of steven vye you can do it man you can do it my crown jewel my girl my adam jones us please another mother as they say so let's play a little bit of a tune here she's gonna sing too wow he's good this is the most diverse tonal video ever made i know i wish he made more of these honestly totals you're actually good what the fuck he's actually good you didn't sing totals more of that more of that total do more oh my god did you see this what the thumbnail why vanilla wow was so memorable why what look at the elves he fucked up on the thumbnail and so he drew the little thing at the bottom of the eye to turn into an L oh my god I gotta get this on screen oh my god he actually he drew on the elves so memorable okay it's true it's true why didn't he just remake he can just remake it it's real this is the actual he had to have intentionally hit the i button three times made the thumbnail and then decided to draw them on rather than just going in and re-trying I love the little legs that drew on the great they just they just underneath everything else in the sentences is fine they're overlapping each other that is classic total man this redeems everything we've had to go through yep it was all worth it folks it's amazing how he he he got everything together he got his wording and then at the very last moment he like he was like fuck it says I have to I have to change it do I just redo the letters no I can't redo the letters because I only made the speech box so big and the L's would make vanilla wider and it wouldn't fit in the little thought bubble so I have to just draw them on by hand I can imagine him like whipping out Microsoft Paint and like struggling to keep the cursors straight with his mouse oh tonal you're such a perfect human being Vanilla wow is awesome I like how I can post that into the meme section once the stream is over and I won't need to do anything with it just just the thumbnail it's a meme all right so the other one is his newest video he's his return off the press is his retain everyone so this one you gotta buckle your your buckles in all right that's how serious this is gonna get after years less than tell you what can we pause there we've been going for like six plus hours maybe take a little 10 minute break so I can grab a snack get a drink well something like that because we're halfway through our whole stream I noticed right and I just have to I'll have to pitch this to you guys live we've got a video tonal left this should take a good I'd say half an hour probably we've got a lot of memes lot of memes and then we've got quite a truckload of super chats yeah it really depends on availability for you folks but what if we were to split the stream and so so that I could start a new one which gives me a bigger cap which means I can get through more of them before I have to go um not a not a bad idea so we've got we can also take a break yeah because I don't need long just enough to go grab a snack well I'd like to eat someone to walk around and we can then begin a new obviously the next one would begin with us covering a tonal video then memes yeah I need to I was weakening it's like I just want to I just want to go I probably won't even take 10 minutes I just want to like go and grab a little snack like a little that would actually give me the time to go to the gas station and pick up some caffeine because I got to drive cross-state tomorrow for your funeral and yeah does that work out all right for everybody yeah that sounds it's pretty good how many minutes break shall we tell everyone it's gonna be we saying half an hour or more I'd say I'd say 30 minutes all right yeah I'll I'll be around but I will use that time to have a snack are we gonna do that now or are we going to go through the tonal video first yeah what's the plan um I mean I figure because we may as well do like a meme slash super chat dream for the second one I mean it doesn't really matter because I think the this stream could go to seven hours then there's a half hour break or this stream could stop at six and a half and the next one can go for however long as well you know like it doesn't it doesn't really matter um it's really up to you guys it's like a coin flip at this point should we ask chat what would they prefer chat tell us what to do we take the break now never I'll be around the whole time it was just a matter of me grab going over and grabbing a snack and working fat break everyone fat break I use a fat break after all this after this tonal playing that guitar man I gotta think I'm gonna have to think I'm gonna have to go on here yeah rub one out real quick yeah definitely thinking I might have to yeah I'm in the mood for loving we got a whole collection of responses honestly I'm it's hard to actually figure out a lot of this whole break now break now pizza keep going do it now break now break seen a lot more break nows all right treat are we cool with break now sure yeah all right so we are gonna come back in approximately 30 minutes this will be fap 40 64 and the next one will be 65 mean rags actually missed out on an e-fap and now we can double up this one it's great super chats will be answered on the next one as well as meme finally covering babes all copyright friendly ones and a bit of tonal as well that'll be the plan 30 minutes folks see you then bye bye see you soon just a little bit later