 Bingo we're back and it's Tuesday feels like Monday after Labor Day, and we're doing I guess I guess we're doing I think tech Global today, and we're talking about some global issues with Dick Sim Dick Sim as a businessman. He was born and raised in Scotland He studied engineering at Glasgow and Cambridge. He spent 30 years traveling the world overseeing global industrial operations Which included serving as the CEO and chairman of two New York stock exchange public companies He has an intimate knowledge of global capitalism culture and the role that technology plays in transforming society He's a perfect guest for us at ThinkTech. He splits his time between Europe and the US continues to be active in business and He has a I guess it's a blog Freedom to argue comm and freedom to argue is also a book. It's available from Amazon and major booksellers Thank you for joining us today dick My pleasure. It's good to be here. I will explore some of your thinking about this And I guess it begins with the the fact that the world is changing faster than ever that probably has a lot to do with You know information technology and telecommunications Borders are coming down Societies that were comfortable before maybe not so much not so much anymore and disparity is raising its head all over the world Have you noticed this? Yeah, I think it's pretty If you just want to look around Do I think some people have a very high level of investment and the idea that with this nice global community Open borders for all multicultural. We all get along like a happy family Unfortunately, I think if you look around the world Reality is a lot different. I mean I think the part of you I just expressed it's pretty common in Europe because they're trying to put together 28 different countries to make them a happy family and a lot of people in the US few things same way But if you look around and say what's Russia up to which China up to what's Iran up to what is Saudi Arabia to what is Turkey up to You begin to realize there's a lot of people out there who really aren't Invested in this view of the world they're pursuing their own self-interest and as they pursue their own self-interest It causes lots of issues that we really have to look at hard on and deal with objectively not have wishful thinking So I think there's lots of evidence around and I think Europe particularly is pretty interesting in terms of what's going on right now Yeah, what's the change that concerns you most? I know there are all kinds of changes We can list only some of them and then we think of more And indeed there are changes that we we can't figure out the relationship of all these changes But if I ask you what's the one or the one or two that concern you most? That you see happening at a breakneck speed that are having the greatest effect. What would you say? Well, I think that you know there's obviously an election going on here in the US Obviously a number of elections coming up in Europe and For the most people the economy is always an overwhelming sort of concern And that is not new and the economy in Europe and particularly US has not done that well the last 16 years So a lot of people are concerned about that that's sort of a never-going concern there I think the new concern that is really come on the table Is really got to do with the clash between the fact if you look at Europe in the US We're breeding blower replacement rates So that says that we don't have immigration or populations are going to decline we're very very rich nations and Particularly Europe when it looks as next door neighbors the Middle East and Africa You see populations there are probably going to double in size the next 30 40 years If you look at the GDP or per capita of Europe compared to say sub-Saharan Africa is 22 times higher And you know if I'm a guy down in Africa as I once was a guy in Scotland you look around and you say gee Things aren't too good down here. I got a dictatorship run in the country Population is exploding. I'm hardly making any money and just up the road here in Europe There's a ton of money, and they don't need them enough people. I think I'll go up there And so you're seeing this movement of refugees and it's a big issue in Europe In terms of the Muslim immigration in particular coming out of the Middle East and Africa and The US solo it seems further away, and we might think the Atlantic Ocean insulates us, but today's modern air travel It's not that hard to get to Mexico. It's not that hard to fly into New York City in a visitor visa and become an illegal immigrant and The refugee on Europe some people view this as a Syrian thing it existed before this Syrian war And it will continue for the next 30 40 years And I think that we need some reality in our terms of a view it may go with Europe and the USA Really need to control the partners or they're going to be overwhelmed, and I really believe that I don't think it's a Scare story at all and you're starting to say you're Do that But this issue is tearing Europe apart because Angela Merkel and the European Commission really aren't in line with a lot of the Nations and you know, I think particularly the Brexit vote in the UK Eastern Europeans are against Muslim immigration There's legislative proposals And then in American Austria to ban all Muslims Anti-Muslim party in Holly now attempts to platform for next elections next year They want to ban all mosques So this thing is coming to a boil in in Europe in terms of confronting something is being creeping up on them For the last 50 years because Muslim immigration really started in Europe 50 years ago It's taken them a long time to get to this point USA's way behind them and we could we could actually benefit a lot But just looking at what's happened in Europe How it happened and what we can learn from it. Yeah, well, but how do you see it unfolding? I mean you can say that there would be legislation or governmental attempts to limit Migration and for that matter to Re-instate borders, I mean borders have have been largely dissolved in Europe among the EU reinstate borders the whole notion of borders, but Will that work at the end of the day? I think what I get from you is that? We have we have a disparity between wealth in some places and lack of wealth in other places and These processes is like water water is finding a way It's an equalization a global equalization to to you know to adjust as to Equalize democratize if you will the disparity and so isn't that going to happen? Isn't that inevitable however painful it may be for the guys who have more money now? I Think that's a reasonable thought and I think the pressures to equalize are very much there, but the The issues what is the price and you know if you say, okay, let's go to the United States We've got three hundred and fifteen million people. We allow in legally about a million a year We don't really know how many illegal people come in a year and even the government midst that But if I were to say to you gj. Do you think we could allow in 20 million people next year? I think most people would pause and say gee that sounds like an awful lot I think this may be a problem So we are talking about down in Africa if we were to send over some planes and give them an invitation You probably get a hundred million people would jump on the planes and want to come over here So the numbers are overwhelming so there needs to be Some practical limits and the reason people keep coming is because Where we really welcome if you look at Angela Merkel you look at President Obama Basically, they're saying come on over here come in as the legal refugee and we will be hospitable and They will keep coming as long as the opportunity is there and of course we should have legal immigration This country USA needs legal immigration Europe needs legal immigration But we need to discourage what is can be an overwhelming flow of refugees and let me give you an altruistic Reasons why we should want to do that please if you look at why Western civilization and the wealth of the West has increased Over the last 40 50 years. It's really driven by technology. It's driven by computers It's driven by softwares driven by iPhones. It's driven by the internet Driven by a lot of medical technology a whole ton of things. Where did most of this come from it came from the USA? we have a system in the USA of Creating new technology creating wealth and we tend to take it for granted and we tend to think it's not fragile We tend to think it's always going to be there for us And in it, I don't think we should be so cavalier So when you look at our biggest gift to ourselves and the rest of the world Our biggest gift is our ability to lead the world in terms of providing all this technology Which improves productivity improves standard living brings wealth the world our global trade Which were a big part of creates jobs in Vietnam Laos Cambodia India, and it's a major reason for our properties You know going down in these countries and people are getting wealthier That is our contribution to the world and if by inventing in a hundred million People who really don't know into the country. We blow that up We're blowing up the world. So this is not purely it is partly selfish, but it's not purely selfish it is a matter of We have a model that works. It's a very important model for the people who live here But it's also very important more model for the rest of the world And we were a responsibility a global responsibility that would argue to Advance it protect it and of course led in immigrants But let's let in the ones we choose let in the ones that legal. I mean I came to this country as an immigrant I mean I understand what that's all about It's not easy, but there's lots of people want to come here and of course we're going to do the legal immigration But the legal uncontrolled immigration even though the pressure is there Jay just the way you described it It is it could be very damaging no with us, but to the world. Well, let me let me ask you Talking about freedom and you're talking about making the argument Maybe you could help us with what is freedom to argue your your book your blog What is that all about? What are you saying there? Well, the banner of freedom to argue really is suggesting that because of the political correct world we live in We really Blocked in so many places in particular white men like you Jay are blocked from talking about a lot of things Because we Initially go to name-calling and talk past people and we have a lot of real issues in society There's issues that need to be brought on the table and civilly discussed And we need to argue with each other to find out what really is right and what's wrong and move from there talking about candor Right, you're not talking about something other than being politically correct Correct. Absolutely. That's what I think we need. It's an important starting point to move any ideas forward So that's the banner of freedom to argue blow that the subtitle we the people versus the government That's one of your points isn't it to have less government. Let's take a short break That's Dick Sim. We're talking about global capitalism and regulation We're going to get to that part of the conversation right after this very short break Aloha, my name is Danelia D A-N-E-L-I-A And I'm the other half of the duo John Newman welcome We are co-hosts of a show called keys to success Which is live on the think-tech live network series weekly on Thursdays at 11 a.m We're looking forward to seeing you then Aloha Hi, I'm Chris Leitham with the economy in you and I'd like to invite you each week to come watch my show each Wednesday at 3 p.m Aloha, my name is Mark Shklav. I am the host of law across the sea. Please join me every other Monday to hear lawyers from Hawaii Discussing ways to reach across the sea and help people and bring people together. Aloha Hello, I'm crystal from quok talk. I've got a new show here You've got to tune in check out my topics on sensitive provocative female issues So Tuesday mornings 10 o'clock. Don't miss it. It's gonna be fun and dangerous Okay, we're here with Dick Sim. He joins us by my Skype Skype video and audio Dick, where are you anyway? I'm right now in Wisconsin. I've got a business here, and I'm up here doing a turning a duo cat That's that's what I love about doing Skype on think-tech. It really doesn't matter where you are You could be anywhere and we get to talk to you. That's wonderful So we talked about the disparity disparity in wealth disparity and I don't know technology and there's so many disparities and and of course the natural flow of humanity like water the old Chinese Chinese You know proverb is straight out Chew Chung the water will find a way the people will find a way and It seems like it's been equalizing maybe through the generosity and the welcomness of people like Angela Merkel But over time that may not be sustainable. So I I posed to you the possibility that the developing world instead of you know, coming to the developed world and Equaling things that way leveling things that way if if the capital interests would to invest more in Developing world to build it up to build the the industries to build the schools You know to build the medical and the technological advances telecommunication And you know therefore equalize things that way We wouldn't have to worry so much about borders and migration. Would we? We would not and I think you're right to go in the direction of saying What do we do to have to help these people where they are and if you look around the world today? I mean obviously the West Western Europe and North America are well developed thriving economy sort of Struya, New Zealand and a few other places Asia's all going in the right direction. They have a capitalistic model Which I think is mirrors a lot of things and in Europe and USA and that's developing nicely and So is South America Most people don't want to leave where they're born. Most people don't want to emigrate emigrating is hard Mainly because you leave your family behind So people only emigrate the things are really bad and I think where we have problems are the Middle East in the non-oil producing countries and in Africa and Again, this is one of these areas where it's politically incorrect to even talk about it, but I don't talk about it if you look at Africa The great hope in Africa was South Africa and I was very hopeful when Nelson Mandela Made the transition and turned it into democracy got beyond the apartheid thing And I think South Africa had a lot of potential because they had some real established industries in there It had a fair amount of people who experienced running these businesses Unfortunately, South Africa has gone downhill in the last, you know, 15 years. Sumo who's running it right now It's slipping into the model of your typical African leader is somewhat detainer somewhat corrupt And the economy isn't doing well They're not meeting the needs of their people. So there's new political parties rising to change them And that was the great hope if you look around the rest of Africa to Zimbabwe going all the way up to Central Africa public all these places Pretty much all the people are run them. There are tribal cultures. The government is basically corrupt And to a large extent Africa in my mind is a failed state now. We can't say that Why can't we say that? Because if you come out of Europe, that's where all these Countries will leave where X colonies are now even though they were made independent in the 50s and 60s If we in Europe call Africa a failed state, they're going to say hey, that's because of you guys Who were colonial masters? You caused this and so we don't talk about And it's very hard to help African countries the country is probably doing most is China. They're making a lot of investments Yes, they are and they're and they're showing us the way They're showing the west the way on how to invest in Africa and they're making real traction there Well, they're and they're doing it for their self-interest. They want access to And you know, they know how to play that game And they're probably be reasonably successful In the United States, if you're American business, you give an anti Corruption laws we can't do things that some other people can do We can't play games in terms of throwing money around to advance our self-interest But just getting access to commodities is not going to solve the problem for the massive of African people So Africa is very the amount of help that people like bill gates with these foundations I can do some sterling work over there But when you funnel money through the governments, it tends to disappear and not get to the people So to get to the people is very difficult and I really don't have a solution The other part of the problem is the Middle East and if you look at the Middle Eastern countries The only majority Muslim country that's really done well In the last say 40 50 years is Turkey And that's because in 1923 there was a guy called ataturk Who is a big general who won independence and he's very determined to set up Turkey as a secular state but without any separation of Islam from the government Separate judiciary and to try and treat everyone equally under the law and Since 1923 it took him The number he only died in 1938 So he didn't put that whole constitution in overnight. He did over a number of years because obviously it It was difficult to do but he put in a really nice constitution And the army was left to make sure that constitution was abided by And the army intervened in a number of times And Turkey under that secular model has done very well of us 40 50 years It's developed in a nice industrial country. The wealth has gone up good And and many many people have benefited. How is it happening? How is it working now with Erdogan? It's I'm very concerned. I mean I think Erdogan is a debauch Muslim When he was He ran for this was party in the mid 1990s became mayor of Istanbul about 1994 A couple of years later. He was sentenced to prison for Islamist Radical insolence thoughts When he came out of prison because he'd been convicted He was no longer qualified to hold political office In the early 2000s. He created the AKP party was a new party They ran they won they became the the governing majority Put in his friend as a prime minister. They passed the law saying the Erdogan Was forgiven for his, you know criminal charge and could become an MP Maybe came MP overnight And so he's been in charge of running Turkey since about 2003 2004 and he's become a strong man and that that doesn't seem consistent with the kind of Um democracy that out of Turk had in mind, no That is absolutely correct and The Erdogan story is is mixed. He did a really good job of growing the economy And that's why lots of people in Turkey love him because the standard living went up everyone did well He did a really good job, but he for the last Sharper time a few years Is being on a Program to make Turkey a more Islamist country if you follow his speeches In Turkey, I mean he makes speeches somebody thinks women should stay in the home Have at least three children Things like which are modern feminists in new york might seem a little odd and He right now clearly is going to try to change the constitution And we don't quite know what he's going to change it to he's made it clear that's what he's doing and if you want to be Little suspicious about everything that's happened over there I think one can be entitled to do that They obviously the reason it was a coup Is the army has always been the protector of the constitution in Turkey Similar to what the role it plays in Egypt that the army's there They stay out of it, but if they see the country go in the wrong correction, they're willing to step in And unfortunately this time the coup was unsuccessful and Erdogan is turning the whole country into a police state And is really going after it and it's going to take another year or two to see how that all plays out Troubles him in the sense that This seems largely for vanity and power what he's doing Um at the same time turkey is a is a keystone to the whole middle east And if turkey fails in some way it fails to be um, you know a a moderate western type state Uh a secular state if you will Um that has implications all around the area doesn't it? Yeah, if you look at it on a cheap level Turkey was on path to become a member of the european union They were in a process of trying to qualify themselves. They're a member of nato We have an air base there. They were using the uss as an air base They've been using the fly sorties into syria. What's happening now is causing up to russia these Turkish troops have moved into northeast syria And the reason they're doing that is really to clear out the Kurds I mean erdogan has had a War off and on again against the Kurds to live within his own country And now he was afraid of the Kurds who are coming in from the Turkish and they're from the iraqan We're going to occupy Northern syria and declare their own country So he's moved in to clear them out and it's complicating the whole syria thing Immensely and I don't think anyone knows what's going to really How does this fit with your general philosophy which I take it is It's better to have less government regulation less government power It's better to return to some more Oh, I don't know non governmental approach a free will kind of approach Instead but here you have turkey a critical player in the middle east Where the government has got greater power. How does it play into your world view dick? Well, I think We need What I would call real politics and so if you look at from a us point of view We need to look out there and see people Who are developing the right way and we reward them And with people are developing ways that are counterproductive to our interests Our global interests We isolate them and for a long period of time. I'm talking decades That's the only thing you can do you can't force people to change But you can reward those who do the right things And and maybe punish is too strong a word But you can isolate people who do the wrong things And and I think that's really from a foreign policy point of view What we need to do and we need to remain strong and this goes back to the idea that we need to Remain a strong country talking about the us us policy Are you talking about european policy too? Are you talking about germany france england? I'm mainly talking about the us. I think the the europeans Uh, it's not really clear that the europeans have a coherent foreign policy The 28 countries get together with the european commissioner room They don't all agree So because they don't all agree it's hard for them to have a coherent policy the united states Because we have leadership Or a structure can have You know a real foreign policy that's specific and targeted And I think we need to again go back to this idea that Of what is real versus what we hope and obviously You know president obama from the beginning Having had a muslim father Having spent up to age 10 In indonesia Obviously his mother I assume like muslims I think he grew out with a fairly benign idea of of islam and that's fair enough because if you look at islam in indonesia It's not the very conservative salafi. Well, whatever obama is doing now. He's a short timer You know in in uh four months, uh He's he's out of office And so if you want to look uh to american foreign policy to a change in some way american foreign policy You have to look to the next president which is likely to be uh either donald trump or hillary clinton So You know just to wrap up on this if you don't have a minute left Which way do you feel we ought to go? Should we go to trump? I mean he's got he's got views about borders. Would you go to clinton? She's got experience in foreign policy Which one would more aptly suit? You know the the kind of direction you'd like to have Uh, that's a difficult choice. Okay. The but clearly hillary is part of why we have a mess throughout the middle east Uh, and so you would based on that say well, let's go with trump Obviously one of the problems we all have with trump is we're not absolutely sure What do we do or exactly how we do it? But I think it's a reasonable bet because I really do think uh, we need to If you listen to what trump says and again, there's always this question of can you be certain really what he would do? But this idea of Concentrating the u.s interest knowing who our friends are and being fairly tough with people who aren't playing the game Is the basis of our some foreign policy and I think that the world Needs that leadership from the united states because lacking that leadership You know we kind of get what we have today That's a dick sim on global capitalism and regulation. He's a businessman Um involved in some new york stock exchange public companies now Having joined us from wisconsin Um on skype and we so appreciate his views of the matter food for thought food food Food for thought. Uh, thank you so much dick. Thanks for joining us. It's been interesting to talk to you You're welcome jay. I enjoyed it too. Aloha