 Hey everybody, today we're debating whether or not there is evidence for intelligent design and we are starting right now With Howard's opening statement. Thanks so much for being with us. Howard. The floor is all yours Thank You James and Thank you for having me. Um, is it okay if I share my screen it is? Okay, is that full screen for everybody and it's set right now Awesome So I would like to take a look I'd like to take everybody to look into other dimensions as We're talking about intelligent design being from a higher dimension We cannot perceive the majority of the electromagnetic spectrum so even though we can't see into higher dimensions we can see a lot of magic in numbers and and We can also see from experience that nobody can make a watch Randomly throughout nature. We can see that there's a design Encoded into the creation even of the human cell Going from one to two to four to eight We also see in history the ancients that built amazing constructions were also obsessed with The sacred geometry Where we can see phi throughout nature and we can also see The numbers in a 3d matrix grid pattern Formataurus donut by Earth's magnetic field possibly being how the Bible and the holy the Quran describe Maybe the Holy Spirit So we see that numbers are Abstract concepts of quantity but concepts require a mind and We also see a lot of beauty. So it suggests that this is the way God thinks the creator The secular worldview cannot account for existence and the properties of numbers And when we look at geometry, we also see that there's a magic In the numbers and the geometry not because we've decided but because it has to be and We see that nine it rhymes with divine possibly because it's a From a higher dimension And it holds all of the numbers and when we reduce numbers We find that we can get everything from nine and nothing from nine simultaneously I'll explain as best as I can When we add all of the digits from one to eight we get thirty six Three and six when added together make nine So nine is all digits and at the same. It's no digits because as Tom's probably heard before Nine can also equal nothing So when we see 360 degrees The zero is nothing which is nine and the three and six is nine When we look at the face of a clock and go clockwise We can add up the digits and we keep coming back to the same numbers And we can also do it when we put them in a different order known as vortex math vortex being like a Taurus field on a two-dimensional plane Because like I said when we're looking at higher dimensions, we have to look at the simplified kind of shadow So when we double eight we get 16 16 is one plus six which is seven. So you'll see that we go around the the numbers in a In a kind of an eight form form like the infinity that eight It just keeps going around and round no matter how many numbers you double It'll keep going around in the same direction for infinity Sorry, the video is a bit out of time. I've just made it today But yeah, we'll always get one two four eight seven five in that order or vice versa if we do negative Which shows that three six and nine Never work. That's why they're known as being from a higher dimension They manage while the other work numbers do all the work which tells us that they're special Which we'll look more into in a minute The problem is that a lot of people worship numbers And parts of creation rather than worshiping the source of the intelligent design and the whole of the creation We see fractals in math and we also see them in the physical world It means that we can see a miniature version Um, no matter how far we go down The physical world contains fractals the secular world view cannot account for why the physical universe Abays mathematics the universe is controlled by the mind of the creator. It's his simulation now when we see a positive to negative Line and we want to talk about something from a higher dimension We have to add another axis which would be imaginary, but we can Um, give them the numeric value Like the Mandelbrot set did to calculate this pattern one of many which is a fractal pattern that is um Again to infinity we can zoom in or zoom out for infinity It's never ending so that imagine the processing power Needed to come up with designs like this designs like we see in snowflakes Which form naturally no two are the same like an iris or a fingerprint All perfectly symmetrical fractal and beautiful when we look at um number sequences in the the concept math Um, we can see that there's a zero in the first zero in the pi sequence on the 33rd place Which gives some credit to the story of jesus christ Resurrecting on the 33rd year Um, we also see many other patterns in pi which I recommend people take a screenshot Um, I'm going to be making another video further ahead. Uh, we'll go into more description But this is just to give a bit of credit to what I'm about to show everybody If you take a mathematic table and reduce the numbers to the digital route and then choose a color for each number I've chosen yellow for number one And then just like a spiral graph or like we did for the Mandelbrot set we need to mirror To see more of the higher dimensional information. So as we mirror the Pixels that we've highlighted for the number one from the mathematic table We'll see a pattern emerge Now excuse the flash imagery like I said, I'm gonna have to play with the speeds a little bit when I do the proper video But you'll get the image now for number one And this is just 10 times 10 The more we calculate the more we can see and it's forever symmetrical it not just symmetrical but we see beautiful patterns like circles We see flowers We see squares And we see crosses Little bit like the pharmacy sign chemist sign As I say, I'm sorry about the speed I'll be making the master version for my channel. Hopefully in the next week or two So we can see there's a different pattern for every number So technically we're looking into a different dimension But we're using a 2d drawing to visualize The electromagnetic properties that we see throughout nature Here's a circle and nine as we said is divine It's like a net and this as we go out remains a net like a grid like a matrix Which is quite interesting. We can also mix numbers to give a stronger pattern and different patterns Here we see The pharmacy logo a bit strengthened with more details when we mix eight four and six You can use any color you want When we see three six nine, we don't just see the matrix the grid. We now see more of a cage We see that three six and nine work together And I've just put my own birthday to show people even in one color You can get beautiful patterns because they all work together The same applies when we take a division table One divided by one two divided by one We get different numbers when the numbers divided by itself We obviously get number one on each side. We get different results It's a bit more difficult to reduce But as I say take a screenshot from As many as screenshots as you can and you can try this for yourselves When we take the horizontal pattern, which is mirroring the numbers from the left side to the right And then mirroring it around we get different pattern Likewise when we mirror the numbers from the right side, we get a different pattern When we mix the two positions of the numbers from both sides, we get new characters With arms and legs And then when we reduce those numbers we get a completely different flower Quite advanced compared to the earlier ones when we mix the flower with the Characters which is putting the fourth and fifth stages the positions of numbers together We get even stronger characters And when we see the sixth stage of number nine and the sixth stage of three six nine We're back with the grid The and the cage We see the sixth stage of one Looking like it's all going to the center point And we also see the seventh stage which is like the seven days of creation the seventh day was to rest Where the numbers that didn't change position throughout all the six stages Um remained the same they give a completely fixed pattern So when we zoom out Thank you nearly done when we zoom out We can see more details and they're more intricate Just like zooming in on a CGI fractal pattern the more numbers you calculate Equals the more complexity the results highlight pixels to show characteristics that we see throughout the creation We can see inspiration for logos board games cartoons and video Game characters, etc This is um to me evidence for intelligent design and as I say what inspires all of our video games board games and um It's something that we see in the concept of math and new numbers Like I said, we see it throughout nature and that tells me that the earth is contained by um That what we call our universe is contained all wrapped together And there's never an overlapping because uh that just like the phi sequence It's um perfectly distributed distributed So we always see symmetry and sometimes it might be our imagination like pareidolia other times it looks too certain to um to be To deny that we're looking at intelligent design. Thank you very much Thank you very much for that opening and we're gonna kick it over to t-jump for his opening as well But first want to say folks if it's your first time here at modern day debate Want to say welcome no matter what walk of life you're from we are glad that you're here and Also modern day debate is a neutral platform hosting debates on science religion and politics And by that I mean neutral moderation and neutral content every video here is a debate and Don't forget to hit subscribe as we have many more debates coming up You don't want to miss them so hit that subscribe button right now and with that. Thanks very much tom. The floor is all yours for your opening Okay, so apparently howard thinks numbers have pretty patterns. Therefore. They must be designed I guess that's his argument No numbers are literally increments One two three four anything that isn't in increments will have a pattern and you can make any of these Subsequence patterns that he's talking about from anything That has a sequence to it. It's just it's basic information here. I don't know why that why he thinks this is magic Um, and so I don't I don't really know what else to respond to like no There are some snowflakes that are identical pie is literally random That's the point of the the increments of pie. There's not a pattern in it He had a bunch of factual things wrong But his argument just seems to be he sees pretty patterns and numbers therefore design I know I don't I don't there's no like a logical inference there And I'll end there Jump into the open conversation folks If you happen to have a question Feel free to fire it into the old live chat if you tag me with at modern day debate That makes it easier for me to see your questions in the live chat here on youtube and Super chat also allows you to ask a question which goes to the top of the list as we read those first And with that, thank you very much gentlemen. The floor is all yours Thank you, james Do you have an argument like can you give like a premise premise conclusion of why you think pretty patterns and numbers indicate design Well, like I showed in the video and I can screen share again later If I do not do not wish to see that again just the one image of This pie sequence, which is totally not random It's got lots of patterns in it and it shows you that there's There's a life of pie as the movie says there's a story Just like in fi Um, which I can prepare more evidence for another debate in the future where I'll look more at fi PHI for people out there that can't hear the difference But today I was looking at pie and looking at multiplication and looking at division And the question was is do you have a syllogism of why you think pretty numbers? Pretty patterns in numbers equals design. That's the part I'm looking for Because we see fractals and other patterns in the concept Conceptual math and the physical world and there's no reason to see the same thing in the physical world Uh, as we do in numbers But we do there's there's literally a deterministic reason for that It's because numbers describe realities. It's like saying why is the sky blue if I say the sky is blue It's almost like the sentence describes reality. Yes. That's how words work But that's not that doesn't answer my question. My question was is okay. So there's a pattern. You see pretty pattern How do you go from you see pretty pattern to Designer that's the that's the question Yeah, sure I just wanted to add what I was saying before to make sure I finished what I was saying So when I watched a debate with you and that tailor v You are saying that the current scientific consensus is that the first RNA molecules Randomly came together and happened to be The right kind of combination that would randomly Reproduce itself and then start to grab nucleotides and randomly put them in the one in a billion write order I'm paraphrasing to reproduce itself and that ribosomes evolved thousands to millions of years later also randomly and that Was supposed to just believe that everything's random and chance when in reality We say I had I asked you a specific question. Do you have an argument? What is your premise premise? What is the argument? I'm trying to make it if you don't interrupt me. It'll be easier for people to follow So where I can't follow it because you're not making the argument What is the argument sitting like premise premise conclusion if if I can answer my way tom if I can answer my way We'll have a much smoother conversation one thing. I I understand tom or uh Howard that you might want to be able to unpack like you might want to be able to give the support for each premise Before having each premise attacked so we can give you extra time to unpack it But maybe first just to be so it's as clear as possible for tom and the audience Is if you were willing to maybe put it in a very short broad version like the kind of the uh Just the pith of it And then after that we can give you a chance to unpack it But that way it like you could say we maybe we'll give you a chance to put the skeleton out And then we'll give you a chance to put the the muscle on the skeleton after is that is that okay? I've pretty much put it out already So the whole point that I was trying to make um was that in reality We don't see anything random not in the mathematics nor in the physical world We even can look microscopically Into a cell and see different molecular machines like the bacterial phallogen If i'm pronouncing it flag a flag of them, which are necessary for transport But this doesn't answer the question flagellum It's the the question was is how do you get from pretty patterns conclusion got so what we need is We see this therefore this Conclusion god, this is what i'm looking for you simply say we do see lots of random things in nature Literally the consensus in physics is random. This is a force of nature So we do see lots of random things in nature, but that literally doesn't tie into anything else you've said so far So what is like how do you say we see this? Therefore god like that sort of designer. How do you get from this therefore designer? As i've already answered Though the now though the mainstream narrative says that everything's random We don't see anything random in numbers nor in the physical world. We see everything in creation Constructed with the ratio of phi, which is 1.161 at 1.618 Everything except for dinosaurs that is Throughout nature has that ratio of construction So again, you you keep going on and on about things that make literally no logical sense Yes, we do literally see random things happen in nature all the time So that's just factually wrong like the decay of an atom is random Um quantum mechanics. There's randomness. There's all kinds of randomness in quantum field theory But that literally has no connection to literally anything you've said So what i need you to do is to tell me how you think The patterns that you're seeing indicate design you simply saying that we don't see randomness in nature does not in any way Tell me how you think that indicates there's a designer like okay. Let's say you were right that there's no randomness in nature How does that lead to a designer like there's nothing in what you said that actually leads to what you're trying to argue for Like it doesn't make any sense what you're saying whatsoever Well, a lot of people would disagree because it's quite obvious that if there's If your claim is that everything came about randomly Then we would i never claimed that i never made that claim in my opening So what is your claim? How do you get your claim from arguments to evidence? That we can see design in numbers and we see it throughout nature Just like there are there are laws of physics Just like there are laws of thermodynamics. Who made these laws who put everything into place? Nobody they are products of reality. They are a thing of nature. Nobody designed them problem solved That's your opinion. That's your belief. But my question that's what the evidence indicates Why do you think there's an alternative? That's the question like what evidence you have that they were designed? That's the question. How okay, how do you get from there are laws of nature to they must be designed? That's the part we're missing Well, because i'm looking at evidence and you're you're saying that it's not evidence That's because that's your opinion And you see that different people have different conclusions the evidence is that we see patterns in the pi sequence You see patterns in the pi sequence This is my original question. Wait, wait, wait. This is my original question. How do you go from you see pretty patterns? To design, how do you get from pretty patterns to design? That's the first thing I asked you the very first thing So I agree. There are patterns in numbers What does that mean because like there are patterns in numbers if they were designed or if they were not designed There are still patterns. There's always going to be patterns. Why do you think patterns require a designer? Because when patterns show beauty Like flowers and characters like we clearly saw in the multiplication and the division results If we see beauty and we see infinite Processing power, which means that numbers numbers are infinite. So calculate the pi sequence is infinite That means that even quantum computers can't get to the end of it Which means that it's not random and that it's eternal. Which means it's none of what you're saying makes sense again So yes, pi goes on infinitely. Wait, wait, wait, wait. So pi goes on infinitely. Yes I agree. That means a computer can't process to the end of pi. Yes Which has what to do with design? How does that lead to design? There are numbers with an infinite set of things. Those can't be processed They can't be processed whether or not they're designed If there was a designer his mind could not process it because that's literally what infinite means So it makes no difference whether or not there's a design to infinite sets zero difference whether or not design No difference. I want to give you a chance to respond howard But first thanks is I don't mind it tom. I'm not a picky guy But I know that people will pick me apart later is your audio There's just a little bit of crackling and someone said it might be that you might be clipping If you might be I have a game playing in the background. It's probably that Maybe we'll give it a shot, but go ahead howard Thank you. It's because uh, tom's throwing a lot of things at me. So I'm trying not to forget things See the whole point of me bringing up the uh, bacterium bacteria How do you do them flagellum flagellum is that just like a mouse trap Wouldn't work if you only built it one tiny step at a time neither would life So it kind of debunks the evolution theory So to answer your question if there's no physical evidence for evolution It's just a theory But there is evidence that there's beauty and infinite Processing power in the design of nature Telling us that there's a there's a designer out of space out of time to be able to process with such power And they also like I said debunks evolution when you think you can't build Something one step at a time everything works in harmony because it's been designed as such Just like we don't see any evolution in numbers seven was never three Numbers are how they've always been. Okay. And so is the guy and so many things too many things. Let's go back Sorry, it's you get a lot of things out to The bacterium flagellum has been proven that it's been evolved. We have the evolutionary process fully described It is totally evolutionary or explained. There is an entire court case on this fully explained We know for a fact evolution is a fact intelligent design is a pseudoscience But that has nothing to do with anything you said in your opening So I don't know why you're bringing that up But none of that answers the question of why you think pretty patterns indicate design You said something about because it has beauty or something like Patterns with beauty equals design that's silly beauty is subjective There's no like beauty property in a pattern and something we see like oh, I really like that pattern So we see lots of things that are beautiful that have no design whatsoever Like if you just drop a piece of paint or paint jar on the ground and it makes a pretty pattern like oh, that's really pretty It doesn't mean it's designed because it's pretty pretty does not equal design I want to give you a chance to respond Howard Tom, I think there's maybe is your mic maybe rubbing against something or is there something that's rubbing against anything else Because there's still feedback. You're turning off your nintendo game. It didn't fix it No You don't know what the sound's coming from Um It's not a big deal, but I'll give you a chance to respond Howard it's just that I know like I said, there's some connoisseurs out there that love to pick on Moderate debate despite the fact I have no training in audio, but go ahead Howard Uh, what was tom's last remark? It's just throwing me. I think he said you won him over Tom's fine on my stream. They say it's much fine on my side. What was your last point tom? um You pretty doesn't equal design. So you said if there's patterns They're designed that makes no sense. Okay. I got it. Thank you for reminding me So I beg to differ because the world's top plastic surgeons Will tell you that beauty is all about perfect proportionality So if you get things in the right size at the right place, then you find beauty So if we see beauty in patterns that look like flowers and other Characters that we see in creation That doesn't say random that says design which if you take a paintbrush and just paint without looking That's not going to be as pretty as if you take a paintbrush in front of you and try to paint something with your design With your imagination with your talent as you know So my question to you tom because you seem to be getting a lot of you seem to be getting a lot of questions in tom So if I can just ask you one What would you accept for evidence for intelligent design? Now i'm a person of predictions What would okay, we'll go there and what would information from a higher dimension look like So you know what that gibberish means Supposing that intelligent design is true and I'm right and I'm trying to present it to you What kind what would information from a higher dimension look like I I don't know what information from a higher dimension means That's gibberish But if you have a theory and you think you're right then you would need to tell me What you would expect to see and then we could do a test to see if we see it I don't know what your gibberish hypothesis means How am I supposed to know what we're supposed to see if your model is right? You're supposed to tell us that like if I have a hypothesis Objective morality for example, I can tell you what we would expect to see Like we would expect to see the moral patterns in other species if we discover them in our eyes So I can take my theory Infer in the future what we should see and if my theory is correct And then we can test that to see if it's correct, but I don't know what your theory I don't understand your theory. You're supposed to tell us that you it's your job to say if my theory is correct Here's what we should see it's not my job to tell you that Well, I'm still waiting for like how does pretty numbers saying that plastic surgeons think beauty is proportional We're talking about human beauty and how humans interpret beauty, which is evolution Evolution determines how we see beauty. It has it's not there's no like objective beauty out there Beauty is an evolved process How does any of this in any way indicate that us seeing beauty in certain kinds of patterns equals mind did it? It doesn't make sense Well, so some people it does because like I say random is distortion clarity Comes from design from calculation And calculation come the concepts of calculation come from a mind So that means that mind It was before man So what you know, no it doesn't None of that makes sense What you call a quantum field that gives a magic answer for everything if you give it billions of years Other people call the creator because it must be conscious No, there's no evidence. It's conscious. That's the problem. We have lots of evidence of a there is no evidence of a quantum field There's evidence and there's tons of evidence So we have tons of evidence of quantum fields quantum field theory is one of the most successful predictive theories in all of science Which has thousands of predictive answers that have been proven correct before Like we made predictions before we knew them got them right that is evidence So yeah, we have lots of evidence for quantum fields as far as I can tell you have no evidence of anything mind related Your evidence seems to be it's pretty and prettiness requires a mind Therefore if we see something that is pretty a mind of it. I see a rock. I think it's pretty. Does that mean a mind in it? No problem solve But when we see that the scientists Say that they only understand five percent. Is it that 95 percent is dark energy and dark matter So you're making interpretations on limited perspective, which is what I showed in my video We have limited perspective and very limited understanding of things that Machinery and technology can read. We don't know how to interpret everything So we theorize so the theory of evolution and the theory of quantum mechanics and stuff isn't demonstrable It's only predictive and sometimes they're right But we can also make predictions and observe conceptual numbers So and we can make predictions in numbers conceptual numbers But sorry I said we can make predictions with numbers and we can also make predictions on their Effects on matter in the physical world which we can measure which other people can repeat With a scientific method. We can apply that for sciences About these effects numbers Because i'm interested in this you said something very very interesting You said that you could see the effects numbers have on the real world I know of no effects abstract objects by definition have no effect. So please that would be great evidence Tell me about these effects numbers have on the real world Well, like I said when we can see fractals on a computer screen that have been processed with math And then we see fractals all throughout nature like the romanesco broccoli Fern trees lightning snowflakes, then yes, we can measure it. We can observe it. It's repeatable And your beliefs are only based on theories calculations. They're not falsifiable They're all Wait, stop. Stop. So you said that I can never finish my point That's because your points go on forever and you just don't ever answer the question So the question was is how can we see the effects of numbers in reality and you said something like We can see fractals in nature Is that because there are fractals in numbers that they happen in nature? No, nobody thinks that it's because numbers describe reality We see fractals in reality. Therefore, we can use numbers to describe reality It isn't the numbers that cause anything numbers are not prescriptive They don't exist and guide the universe to make it into different shapes that is false So simply seeing things that can be described with numbers is not evidence that numbers do anything in reality So no, your example is not in any way evidence of anything. Yes, we have tons of evidence When you call something a theory or hypothesis, it's irrelevant We have novel testable predictions if we can predict the future and get it right before we know it It doesn't matter if you call it theory or hypothesis. It beats yours that can't do that In your opinion, that's where we disagree strongly. You see because like I was trying to finish my point again Astrology is where you can make predictions about the future using time numbers arches and angles Archangels and you can laugh all you want Tom, but throughout history all of the billionaires And all of the royalty have used astrology to make their biggest decisions And when we look at a lot of the secret societies, they study the seven pillars of wisdom, which if you don't know their geometry arithmetic math astronomy music grammar Rhetoric and logic And this is what I do because not only have I got personal experience from being a freemason Which tells me that there is definitely some Importance to this if they study this when they're all grown men It's also mentioned in the bible in proverbs nine What nine verse one? You said astrology can make predictions astrology can make predictions Okay, yeah Do it because all of the tests that every science has ever done has proven astrology is complete bulk So if you can actually make successful predictions with astrology, that would be great Have rich people used astrology in the past? Yes. Did it work? No The fact that rich people like to use it isn't evidence it works What you need is to use a controlled Experiments do a testable prediction and get it right at a higher rated chance. Can you do that if you can? Please do it There's lots of things people can do as as you know from myself, Tom I've been doing experiments that will never get peer reviewed because the problem of peer reviewed even when it's Please let me finish speaking making a point though for once Tom just once well You have to address the thing Please let me make my point Please just let me make my point because it's not enjoyable for anyone to watch I do I do want to keep starting over word about a minute and then we'll come back to you Tom If there's anything that has to be corrected Thanks, you're gonna have to remind me either what Tom said or what I was saying because holy shit Sorry, mate, but you've I asked you you said astrology could make successful predictions Give me one do it do it now Like I say throughout history rich people like royalty I don't care I've paid for the best astrologers in the world and it's a science It's a language. It's without interpret something Where people like dentists can be good and bad, but it's a science that's lasted throughout history And it's also a science that we've seen throughout the whole world Throughout history And like I was trying to say the problem with peer reviewed papers is that they're under peer pressure So the scientific community Is under peer pressure So maintain certain narratives so that they don't lose their phd's and stuff as you know. No, they're not. Thank you So so stop telling me rich people do it. I don't care if rich people do it Gwyneth Paltrow pays lots of people money to put rocks up their veg I don't care what rich people do give me an example if you think it works Do it Get the lottery numbers or something do it Many people do Tom and they pay a lot of money for it and there's a lot of No, I'm asking you you do it right now. Show us the working how this can work. Please show us its efficacy Don't tell me other people do it. I don't care if other people do it. Show me it works So you don't care that other people have been doing it and will continue to do it throughout time No, I don't care the world. Show me it works Show me just go. Yes. I don't speak that language I just recognize that other people do and the other people pay a lot of money And a lot of people have found many things in horoscopes and a lot of people have tested things But like I say, you won't ever see it on the mainstream narratives because it goes against your worldview No, that's the bias argument. The bias argument is always fallacious. It's because it doesn't work That's why you never see it on the news if it worked the military would be using it It doesn't work. They tried it the military tried all this stuff. It doesn't work It's been proven to fail every single time We can testably predict it fails every single time And if you would like to do a novel testable prediction to show it works Feel free at any time to win the lottery consistently multiple times in a row and I will believe you go ahead Yeah, well The thing is we disagree Um on things and it doesn't look like we're going to agree But I just appreciate having this conversation because it gave me a chance to Demonstrate to everyone out there that does have an open mind and it isn't blinded with Theories that there's definitely more to the makeup of our creation You see my one of my big arguments for you tom is what are the alternatives? I can only think of three mainstream narratives. Excuse me. Just a second. I've got I've got something stuck in my throat Believe naturalism materialism of the main alternatives Okay, so If i'm right, there's only three mainstream narratives for the creation of life the first Is intelligent design a creator The second would be evolution And the third would be aliens Which is still intelligent design, but Are there any other logical alternative possibilities that you can think of because I only know of those three And then I'll I'll go on with my point after you mentioned mainstream like no intelligent design isn't mainstream Intelligent design pseudoscience the mainstream hypothesis are a biogenesis is the origin of life not evolution And that's the only mainstream accepted hypothesis that has any evidence whatsoever like there is I just had a conversation with this with Oh, I forgot his name but There was a poll from the oh, hey Ohio scientists something something from the ncse that showed that 90 something percent of its Sciences poll the greed there is zero evidence for intelligent design whatsoever So there is no Mainstream intelligent design is not mainstream. It's pseudoscience It doesn't even count as a hypothesis because you don't make testable predictions that are confirmable So it's not an option until you have something that can make successful predictions Then you don't have a viable Model at all. So the only viable models are like panspermia, which I also don't think makes predictions I'm not sure or a biogenesis a biogenesis is the only one making real progress That's the only real model that there is it's the only game in town as docum's put it Okay, so You're saying that the only Real explanation is evolution a biogenesis Thanks evolution is what happens after life exists great so let's just suppose that The field of research known as biogeology debunks a long timeline and Let's even go as far as saying What einstein and steven hawking were terrified of that earth actually has a special location in this universe and that Not only would aliens turn out to be interdimensional demons as the bible and karan suggest But my point being that if the biogeology research turns out to be true And if the globe lie Experiments, it can't get debunked Then doesn't your single alternative theory for life Doesn't it collapse is there any hope for evolution or whatever you call it? If the if if biogeology debunks the long timeline for from Noah's flood No, so even if you disproved evolution that would not in any way be evidence of intelligent design What you would need is positive novel successful predictions that an intelligent design hypothesis makes before we know it And you have to get them right otherwise you have zero evidence Even if you disproved evolution 100 or biogenesis 100 you would still have zero evidence for your model For you to have evidence what you need to do is say here's my hypothesis if it's true Here's what we would expect to see In this experiment x y or z or whatever do the experiment and if the result Confirms your prediction then you would have evidence for your hypothesis Simply saying you prove evolution wrong is not in any way evidence of yours. It's called an argument of ignorance policy Well, this idea disagree about the not having evidence because any evidence that anyone ever presents to people like yourself Is called supernatural metaphysical pseudoscience because it's um from a higher dimension The infamy the source so it's a never-ending debate but um My main my main point is just to clarify evidence is anything that can differentiate Imagination from reality. So if you present that you have evidence It's the reason it's pseudoscience is because you can't like there's nothing that you've presented that can differentiate imagination from reality I disagree But like I say, there's a lot of peer pressure on the peer review system But if I can just finish making my point Tom So you've agreed that if you you've said that if biogeology Which supports the story of a worldwide flood like the 500 myths Noah's Ark Which you can go and check for yourself along any coastline Or in a riverbed or in a valley or even buried in mud There's evidence of a worldwide flood everywhere petrified organs And four different types of location. That's four environments That shows that there's evidence that the timeline is not as long as we've been told So my point being if biogeology debunks the timeline and it debunks evolution You've already agreed with me that there is no other logical alternative theory than intelligent design No, no, no, that's not talking about evidence. We were talking about logic I said is there any other logical explanation for the creation of life apart from intelligent design or evolution and you agreed that there is none No, no, no, no, I did not know I did not so I said that there is no rational alternative to A biogenesis intelligent design isn't a rational term. It's a nothing burger. It's you have no evidence It's magic farting pixie leprechauns equivalent to that. No, it's not a rational hypothesis At all. And so it doesn't even qualify as a theory. It's not even there. It's just making shit up It's what it's technically the technical term for so if you want to say that If evolution was proven false, that means the only Rational answer is we don't know you don't even get to make up an alternative anymore because there's no evidence for intelligent design So like if say if say if we prove evolution wrong It would still be equally as rational to say evolution did it is to say god did it because they had equally no evidence at this point But surely you've heard the age old argument that everything that we see That's been created Has been created by a creator everything that we see like table or watch has been designed programmed uh coded It's uh, it's kind of crazy that you're asking me to accept that your theory that's never ever ever been observed in reality You're asking me to believe something random Like an explosion or evolution from one in a billion and Everything just changes over time yet. We see no change in math. We see no changes throughout creation through our history Apart from apart from apart from dinosaurs. We don't see all the fossils apart from dinosaurs show the fee Phi ratio of construction 1.6 or makes sense So we don't see any evolution evidence revolution We see lots of evidence for creator in the fact that everything that we see has been designed by somebody And also tom and also tom you can call it what you want me also You can go all into your definitions if you want tom But my point is you're asking me to believe in something that we've never seen And you're telling me that it's illogical of me to ask you to believe in something that we see all the time You see a table. You know that someone's made it You've never seen a table that hasn't been made by somebody yet You're asking me to believe that and that's where I don't understand your logic and if I may say You see the point is everything that we've ever created or designed has been inspired Have you ever had an original idea because it seems like everything is just a remix None of that matters so again Human designed things are designed by humans. You know, what's not designed by humans life Life is not designed by humans planets are not designed by humans numbers are not designed by humans Numbers describe reality reality is not described by humans So none of the things you're talking about are analogous to human designed tables We have never seen humans design life ever. You what we also haven't seen is supernatural other dimensional beings gods Anything that even closely corresponds to any of the things you're talking about what we do see Is novel testable predictions that confirm evolution? So what matters isn't what we see what matters is is which hypothesis Can make successful predictions of things we don't know yet before we know them and get it right There's only one that can Evolutionary biogenesis your hypothesis cannot you have no evidence what we see doesn't matter anymore Whether or not we see evolution directly, which we have doesn't matter anymore because one of the hypotheses Make successful predictions about things we don't know yet and gets them right Which means that's the only one that's rational to believe whether or not we actually see the things it says So if there's a model of evolution that predicts we're going to find a transitional form between fish and lizards Exactly at this specific strata in this specific location and gets it right That one has evidence and that's the only one that's reasonable to believe because the alternatives couldn't predict that So yes, evolution has evidence doesn't matter if we directly see it We have but it wouldn't matter if we did because it's the one that predicts the future yours cannot Okay, there's a few points there. Let me get them all out rock strata Dating has been debunked by petrified upright trees going through. I didn't say dating. I don't care. I don't care You're talking about rock strata rock strata of rock being the layers of rock strata being dependable They're not no It's just a waste of time because he's not addressing the topic. Like I said, we made predictions about the strata I don't care about what what dark dating there is that there's a prediction Can we predict which strata it's in that cell that matters? It doesn't matter. Okay. I've got a timeline relevance to there Go ahead. Howard. Thank you. James. It's it's just that I'm scared. I'll forget what I wanted to say You see this it seems It seems like you're scared of what I've got to say Tom because you have to keep interrupting me and trying to throw Me off what I'm thinking. So uh one we do see evidence that uh layers of rock strata Can't be depended on for making any kind of calculations in time or predictions Um, also, uh, you can interpret and predict as much as you want from your prediction Results from your predictions, but you're not actually creating anything. There's nothing new under the sun I'll get I'll tell you what though. You're right. You're wrong. Man did create planets Man created planets, but they were inspired by the wandering stars So we can talk about that another time But um, my main point is everything has been inspired by nature and all we do is remix Things that we're given we haven't created anything new just like in science. We've never proven evolution We can only prove mutation. So all of your evidence is either theoretical or it's biased or it's limited Understanding you have never Demonstrated anything new under the sun and you're asking people to ignore what we see Every day that things get designed and created by a creator all throughout history. That's what we see You're asking me to believe in the unseen and you're telling me that I'm spiritual and I'm religious I think you're fanatical and you're blinded by pride to Tom, please Okay, well now all of your relevant gibberish That's absolutely nothing to do with anything I said is done What I said was a hypothesis that can make successful predictions of things. We don't know yet Gives us reason to believe it evolution does that like one of the predictions which Is predicting that there would be a transitional form at this exact location notice. I didn't mention dating I don't care. It's a prediction that we will find this fossil at this location and it was correct That means it has evidence you have none of those you have no examples of being able to predict things before we know it yet Means your hypothesis is garbage. That's why intelligent design is a pseudoscience until you can make successful predictions You are not on the same level as science Like I say, um, people do make predictions in math in in observations using math and all certain measurements which is numbers and we also can Like I say use things like astronomy to make predictions and we get results We can also do many other kind of experiments that prove that there is energy Um, and the energy is kind of conscious. Uh, there's dry sex You keep laughing over me when I'm talking just just I can say there are magic pixies in my butthole But until you actually showed them it's not evidence. What are these predictions that you have? Let's give Howard a chance. He's had a chance 60 seconds Throughout history There's many many many people that have made accounts of Higher dimensional experiences, whether it's been through drugs or through religious or spiritual practices There's secret societies like satanists that do All sorts of blood magic and dirty rituals the secret societies like that one that I was in that study Uh The magic behind music math geometry and astronomy never mind how to persuade people with grammar rhetoric and logic of how to think for things um to answer your question I think that yeah that there's evidence everywhere But that you're just not accepting it because you You're literally saying that anything metaphysical can't be counted as scientific Yet you're asking us to ignore everything scientific that we know Like that when people make rules or make order or design something It's because they've got intellect and they've got um an idea And that you're asking me to believe that everything that we see has come from No idea from no space from no time and it's all random and that is absurd Has absolutely nothing to do with anything I said like oh my god We just we need to like stop giving people time to spew nonsense that has literally nothing to do with the question asked Uh, it's just a waste of everyone's time. I asked what are the novel predictions saying lots of people do it It's like saying I can say there are lots of people who have seen magical pixies up my butt present them No, I'm not going to present the magical pixies even though there's whole bunches of them that happen Never gonna happen. Stop telling me people did it. I don't give a shit show me do it Okay, I'm sorry people do it I'm sorry that you don't like the way I'm answering your questions. It's just that you're asking a lot of questions, Tom I'd like to ask one one question give me and I've given you the best answer as many times as I can So let's move on that's the best answer I can give you what other people have done is isn't an answer If you think it works show it This is other people have done it. I don't care There's accounts throughout history all over the world and it's all very similar And there's a lot of pattern recognition when people talk about ghosts when people talk about Experiences in astral Projection when people talk about lucid dreaming when people talk about spiritual encounters all over the world We see constructions with the same demigods depicted in the constructions that are magically constructed better than we can even build today So, yeah, there's evidence everywhere, Tom, but you're just not accepting it So can I ask a question now? I've answered your question as many ways as I can Why aren't we being taught This kind of math in school like sacred geometry some of the stuff I showed in my video What's the big secret? Why is it that secret societies study it? But we don't study it in school Surely children that's why surely children would love to see the patterns that numbers make Might it be that it's too influential and it gives no Okay, it's because it's dumb and does nothing it has no practical application in the world The reason we teach kids math is because it has practical applications where they can do stuff We don't teach them garbage math that does nothing like numerology because it's garbage That's the reason if it works we teach it doesn't work. Don't teach it very simple Well, you should you should watch the video that I made again In your own convenience, Tom because you'll see there is lots of useful practice Um, there's lots of I can't demonstrate them I did I showed how you can calculate numbers in different ways when you use the different techniques and You call me a pragmatic application in the world a novel prediction You can do every time I've asked for that you can give nothing You just jibberish on about nothing this that you have and then keep blaming me for not accepting your jibberish Like I ask you for evidence one question and you can't answer that simple question with anything But some other people have done it even though I don't have any myself I've spent the whole night answering your questions as best as I can And I don't mind I don't mind because I'm I don't mind because people that are interested are getting to hear a lot more For me than they are you but my my point is Tom. There are scientists Uh, I can't remember his name rolling or something the coil Where he's used vortex math Uh and found that it actually maps out like I said a tourist field and he's used it for different um different creations different um He's made things uh like magnets and different magnetic fields Using this math system that you're saying is useless So, yeah, there are you predictions and useful applications with vortex math So there is a point in learning the beauty behind the numbers The patterns that we can find in numbers even though you don't think so I still think it would be a very influential and also it would Make children want to learn a little bit more because it makes it a lot more interesting than just algebra So it seems like there is a little bit of a conspiracy because apart from the stuff I showed there's lots of beautiful sacred geometry that can be useful for calculating useful for creating electromagnetic applications and Many other things like I've said whether you believe in them and not that's totally up to you Okay, I didn't mention vortex math at all. I don't even know what that is I mentioned astrology. We know it's false. If you think it's true, show it When you say we know it's false you're talking for yourself Like I said, there's a lot of people around the world that disagree with you. I'm not talking about myself I'm talking about all rational humans with rational evidence. No, it's false Well, there you go. That's your opinion, Tom But what evidence what evidence of you actually presented to counter my evidence? And what answer did you give me when I said what evidence would you accept for intelligent design if it's from a higher dimension? Surely all test no predictions. That was my answer Yeah, but How can you do not? Like I said when people are doing predictions But their understanding is limited because just like I said, we're not being taught the right math You don't need any understanding a novel prediction is you predict something we don't know yet and it happens I don't any understanding. I just need to see the prediction. I need to see the experiment I need to see the result that I don't need to understanding is irrelevant here Okay, I've got a really good answer for your question about um Why astrology is very difficult for people to prove And you will agree with me on this because it's a historical fact That um, they changed the calendar I'm all right Just agree with me on one thing at least tonight, Tom. Yes. Yes. They change the calendar the calendars all the time Okay, so if I may if I may continue it seems like we've lost a month Because the sixth month has been removed because september sept is seven October means eighth month November means ninth month and december df means 10th month Okay, so then if we add january and february We find out that january is actually worshiping a god called janus And uh march, uh, I believe the 21st should be the end of the year and april's fools april the first Would be the start the first month of the year Depending if you going on a sun or a moon calendar because as I showed in the video if people go back to the pie sequence, um there's 28 Days, what does any of this have to do with astrology working? I'm going to make more my points quite obvious if they've changed the calendar How can anybody know what the real day is and could it be that they're doing it? So people can't keep the Sabbath like the bible asked People to do so no one can worship the creator as the creator wants and nobody can calculate Please let me finish nobody can calculate Correctly on astronomy when they don't know the correct date And one month of the year has been missing because when they say that earth is on a turn No, this is our relevance. That's the answer. It's not it's not a relevant I was trying to finish my poem. So it's going on long. It's because you keep interrupting me. I forget where it was I got your point. I got your point. No, no Your point is they say the calendar has changed right the calendar has changed and if people use astrology based on the calendar If they've changed the calendar, then they can't accurately use astrology. That's your point, right? That is the whole five past minutes of you speaking That was the point you made which I said in like five seconds So your point is wrong because I don't care if people change the calendar If you want to demonstrate astrology works, you need to give an example of it working not examples of it not working I agree It doesn't work Could it be that it doesn't work because people change the calendar? And maybe there's some other working kind somewhere else in the universe Sure until you demonstrate it then all we have is it doesn't work and my point is correct So um, they say that our reality our world our universe is on the back quick heads up That we'll be going into the q&a in just a few minutes That's cool. I'm pretty much finished But my point is that throughout history different cultures have said that our world our reality our universe Is on the back of a turtle shall And the point is that a turtle shall consists of 28 sections around the border and 13 sections in the middle Now that's not a coincidence We see these numbers everywhere like I said to people that paid attention in my video 13 times 28 is 364 days in a year and one day to rest or to resurrect So the reason they say that the world is on the turtles back is because they're originally there was 13 Moons in a year They've taken a month out so that we don't know where we are. We're disorientated. We can't worship correctly We can't calculate using the stars correctly This is evidence historical evidence that there's people against us and to final Our final point is that days months and what you call planets are all named after fallen angels So that we're worshiping the creation rather than a creator in terms of intelligent design I'll give you like 10 to 20 seconds to maybe use a couple sentences to tie that back Intelligent design because I I bet the audience is confused because I don't understand myself to be honest It's okay I'm saying that there's lots of evidence that they've changed the calendar and named the days months and what we call planets after fallen angels Yeah So there's a big Consensus to lie to us to just to confuse us by changing the calendar to have us Worshiping the sun in the center of the universe and to have us worshiping the other demigods by using their names every day every month I just don't when we talk about this I hate to interrupt but i'm just not seeing how it ties to If you want to give the muscle afterward, but if you can give me the skeleton first And then we've got to go to the q&a because I I still don't see are you saying that this is A reason this is a reason why humans have difficulty seeing intelligent design is because we've There's like a faction of people out there that are I exactly except I'm saying moons and the Pagan god stuff and that was where I was like wait. Hold on. I'm like I'm it's just such a That part. I didn't see how that fit in You you said it beautifully. James. Thank you. They've purposely Confused us so that we don't see intelligent design And we don't feel our connection to the creator and the truth the source of truth Because if we showed the patterns like the government factions or the false gods like the pig and god stuff It seems like people in powerful places are getting inspired from a higher dimensional beings I hate to interrupt, but I just well, let's just jump into the q&a. I I just I wouldn't mention that stuff. Oh, so Um, the reason there's no evidence of intelligent design is because it was hidden from us Which would then indicate there's no evidence of intelligent design and I would win But I do I love the turtles lots of lots of turtles and turtles thing is just it got me great evidence of turtles phenomenal This one coming out from do want to say a couple of things one Housekeeping stuff for the channel our guests are linked in the description That includes at the podcast you can find both toms and howards links in the description box there as all of the modern day debates That end up on youtube also end up on our podcast Which is available on spotify apple you name it every single podcast app Check it out if you haven't and if you're listening to a podcast check out our guest links And this one coming in from theros rex says howard Would you like to debate a geologist on mud fossils or your heart shaped stones? Also tom have fun with this Yes, I'd love to because uh like I say we see patterns throughout nature When we look at the hearts of all creatures Um When we also look at the harp shaped stones that we find in four completely different environments They always have a flat top like a heart with a dent or even a hole where the aorta Goes in They always have a flat or a concave back And they always have a convex multifaceted front that leans down to one side and twists at the bottom These are just a few of the many Uh characteristics that everybody that bothers to look along the riverbed along the coast The valley or burying in mud will find evidence for intelligent design throughout nature I think they're asking if you'd be willing to come on modern day debate or some other platform to debate them I'd love to Okay, this one coming in from to appreciate it. Nathan Collins appreciate it says question for howard and t jump Was math created by humans? Like a language or was math discovered by humans? Math was invented. It's a language to describe reality the patterns in reality exist That isn't math. Math is just the description Howard thoughts Well, uh, as I said in the life of pi 22 divided by 7 gives us pi the human skull consists of 22 pieces and seven holes The seven days in a week seven colors and a rainbow seven music notes We have seven layers of skin and the seven heavens, but it must all be coincidence You got it. You know this two pi divided by two is pi bone This one coming in from do appreciate your question Chris zimbaldi says tom if intelligent design is false What is it that is fundamental and absolute and defines everything that can be and cannot be? Don't say reality quantum fields reality i'm going with reality This one from big bad ma says Howard can you name one prominent proponent of intelligent design who isn't an abrahamic religious creationist? Sure, if you show the patterns that I Um that I brought out from the division results and from the multiplication results and show them to a child They'll see the beauty and they'll sense the divine influence. It's only hypnotized adult egos That will reject and discount and try and to debate and try and debate what is so blatantly obvious This design intelligent design wasn't the question for academics and he's like kids kids are the ones This one from thunder storm says I wonder if t-jump realizes. He disagrees with nicola tesla I disagree with lots of people who are older that don't have as much information about reality as we do now so yes, disagree with newton and Einstein on certain things and Ptolemy on a whole bunch of things. Yes, it's not like people who say that think that's Disagreeing with people who were smart in the past makes you less likely to be right They just don't understand how reality works This one coming in from do appreciate your question Also housekeeping type stuff if you hadn't seen it pinned at the top of the chat surgeon general. Thanks so much Reminding you that we do have a discord. It's new modern day debates discord is pinned at the top of the chat It's also in the description box. Check it out if you haven't already And this one coming in from do appreciate it notion slaves says is this the wrong guest debate? I thought this was intelligent design It might help to step outside for fresh air. Perhaps there's too much monoxide in your house Well, I I feel the same when I listen to people talk about quantum fields um creating consciousness and morals and um beauty from just random Nothingness and then I I also hear stuff like entanglements these theories of Entanglements sound congested congested sluggish and suffocating But we see five fractals never overlap due to the perfect ratio of construction So, you know, believe what you want, but if you listen to the words entanglement, it goes against what we observe This one coming in from Nathan Collins says Well, we actually got this one. This one is from big bad mama says We got that one thunderstorms says I wonder Got that one too Dark and deeds as howard. Please define syllogism then make one with your argument. Thanks. Love you guys I've got caught me out there. Like I said, I'm not as good as definitions as tom This is an argument that has premises in the conclusion So if men are mortal then socrates is a man socrates is immortal That's that's a syllogism This one from robert nilson says tom has seven letters or namely tom jump spelled out has seven letters Seven is heaven is tom god George howard stirrup has six letters in two of the names in seven and one Are you heavens devil howard? Well seven does have some pretty interesting qualities Like I say, I'll be making a more detailed video and putting on my channel in about two or three weeks, hopefully um, but just to answer his question, I suppose betterly um There are historical interpretations like I say in the bible in the quran And there's also primary observations Experiments like the star in a jar that can help us visualize The different dimensions and the entirety of our earth our reality So yeah, there's there's experiments and there's also historical interpretations and constructions So, you know, you can ignore it or you can Come to the similar conclusion. I'm sure with logic and time you got it. This one coming in from do appreciate it Raz putis, let me know if I'm pronouncing that right says Appreciate that james is an absolute giga chat. Bless your heart. This one coming in from notion slaves says is this the we got that one This one from ozzy and talks says is terry pratchett god for creating the great Atuin and the disc world Is that for me? I think so No, and um, obviously not but uh, yeah great movie This one coming in from robin nills and says james equals intelligent. Yes designed No, rather sculpted out of the sharpest material this crazy world can provide us love this channel. Thanks for your kind words robin That's embarrassing. This is uh west warlock says thanks for setting up these debates Always great topics. Thanks for your support all credit to the guests as they are the lifeblood of the channel If you haven't yet check out their links right now You can open up you can even open up if you're worried you're like well I want to watch the debate though james if you're watching live You can open up a new tab and put the guest links in those new tabs And then you can check them out right after the debate gets done being live victor says howard isn't tom's existence compelling evidence intelligent design is false That's probably the best argument i've heard all night An obs it shows like it's working. So let me just check and see if it's showing on The home page from on our day debate There it is, okay If you if you pay me 75 dollars my devotee then i'll do a rematch That's up to james. I can get someone else to debate me. I'm sure if james isn't willing to pay you This one coming up you can pay him this one coming in from ozzie and tox says Smillo says i have now lost five euros I don't know what that was from But no, let us know Oh, I think they're just because it's like uh referring to their own super chat being five years this one free from peba Lou says mr. Stirrup, please describe the Secret society you were a part of Peba thank you Maybe the same as what tom's and um I'm i was a freemason for three years and i got to the third degree And then i realized that the grand architect of the universe that they're talking about isn't the creator He's a deceiver. He only designs and calculates And uh all the mathematical equations that confuse and brainwash and hypnotize people can't be demonstrated Like einstein and steven hawkin and many other scientists admitted Like we can't prove in primary observations. So yeah, we're literally stuck with Theories and calculations and we're being brainwashed to ignore stuff that we do know Like I said that everything needs everything that's designed needs a designer. So it's quite interesting time You got it and those of you who are watching live it cut off I don't know why but obs just all of a sudden had an encoder error And maybe it's because it's a new download as tom mentioned. So This one coming in from but don't worry. We didn't read any questions while we were disconnected We're saving those for once everybody was uh potentially back So we do have some people watching live 60 seconds skeptic says question for both guests Are your views accepted and backed backed by mainstream victor says howard isn't tom's existence compelling evidence Intelligent design is false That's probably the best argument i've heard all night And obs it shows like it's working. So let me just check and see if it's showing on the home page from modern day debate There it is, okay If you pay me 75 dollars my debate fee, then I'll do a rematch That's up to james. I can get someone else to debate me. I'm sure if james isn't willing to pay you This one coming up you can pay him this one coming in from ozzie and tox says Smillo says I have now lost five euros I don't know what that was from But no let us know Oh, I think they're just because it's like uh referring to their own super chat being five euros this one free from peba Lou says mr. Stirrup, please describe the secret society you were a part of Peba thank you Maybe the same as what tom's and um I'm I was a freemason for three years and I got to the third degree And then I realized that the grand architect of the universe that they're talking about isn't the creator He's a deceiver. He only designs and calculates and uh all the mathematical equations that confuse and brainwash and hypnotize people Can't be demonstrated like einstein and steven hawking and many other scientists admitted Like we can't prove in primary observations. So yeah, we're literally stuck with Theories and calculations and we're being brainwashed to ignore stuff that we do know Like I said that everything needs everything that's designed needs a designer. So it's quite interesting time You got it and those of you who are watching live it cut off I don't know why but obs just all of a sudden had an encoder error And maybe it's because it's a new download as tom mentioned. So this one coming in from but don't worry We didn't read any questions while we were disconnected. We're saving those for once everybody was uh potentially back So we do have some people watching live 60 seconds skeptic says question for both guests Are your views accepted and backed backed by mainstream peer reviewed science or rejected Mine are accepted Yeah, even like I said, even though we've got physical evidence reproducible all over the world the evolution timeline is Not true but from the petrified organs Even though we've got evidence that there's no curvature and there's no way to prove earth's motion But there is logical sense that what we see is happening that the sun and the moon are moving around us Even though we have lots of evidence We can't get it peer reviewed because all of the scientists are under peer pressure By the establishment that gives them the phds and their funds and their grants and tom can deny it as much as he wants But we've all seen how much censorship real scientists and real doctors suffered throughout the supposed pandemic That we only saw on media not in reality, but there you go. Trust the science tom Don't verify it. Just trust it You got it and this one coming in from do appreciate your question Thunderstorm says what if the big bang is a cognate for god? Let me look up what cognate means In other words, like when god say let there be light that was the big bang I can work with that the karan talks about Allah speaking life into existence And it was just Air and matter in water and the bible talks about let there be light and that there was water above and water below So it suggests like I said the experiment star in a jar Is the most accurate depiction of our reality and that it's multi dimensional Which is why people can't prove the flat earth But we can easily debunk a globe if we if we bother to look which is why I offer 10,000 And no one won the 10,000 in three years on national television. Who are You got it. This one coming in from do appreciate your question Some of your far sayings is to jump if you believe That men made math, how come we just discovered the hidden infinite mind-boggling Mandelbrot fractals that amazed every mathematician Uh, if we create a system of symbols, we don't know the consequences of all the system of symbols And so we'll always be able to discover More different kinds of patterns that we haven't discovered yet because systems have infinite patterns Even though if we invented the symbols, that doesn't mean we know necessarily all the different combinations of those symbols You got it. This one also from Simeer says t jump. You need to be honest We don't really know if real pi is irrational. We in all caps We don't know yet how to measure a curved surface pi measures polygons Pi doesn't measure anything pi is a relationship between the circumference of a circle. It's not about measuring a circle Um, you're right. We don't know exactly what kind of number pi is But that doesn't matter. It's like so You've got it and can I add can I add to that james? Sure just quickly that we need two Pi to make a whole perfect circle a perfect life cycle and we see two Pies in the sky. We see the sun doing perfect circles and we see the moon also doing perfect circles and like I say there's a lot of A lot of information in pi if people couldn't see it in the screenshots From the video now, I will be uploading the video to my channel and there's lots more information to come I see two pies in my oven. Does that is that proof of god? It's proof that there's two pies in your oven, but you're denying that there's two things in our sky You're thinking that they're in outer space Who are you fanatic? Anton Gomez says mr. Modern a debates. How dare you close the stream mid sentence? I hope the super chat teases you a lesson. Thanks for your support. We appreciate that that on ton. Yeah, we like We're still figuring out the tech after four and a half years this one from trevor and right says Is there any reason to think that random patterns that appear in nature is evidence of intelligent design? And if so, why not demonstrate how it works howard? Okay Obviously Like tom you didn't really watch the video because if you saw the video you'd see that there is nothing random In numbers like this pi sequence like the fi sequence, which I'll show in the next debate Um, there's nothing random about numbers and there's nothing random about nature There's only mutations and mutations come from our bad choices When we've got free will and we choose to use it wrong We cause distortion in this perfect Ecosystem and that distortion causes mutations throughout nature. Thank you You got it. This one coming in from do appreciate it the ungoogle Ungoogleable man says george if the earth is flat and the sun goes around the earth Why does mars do a loop in the sky in other words retro grades over time? Can you make a model? Yes, like I said, I don't believe the earth is flat flat is two dimensional I believe earth is higher than a three dimensional shape the bible the koran especially says the earth is seven dimensions Um, that like I said, there's seven colors in the rainbow seven music notes seven days in a week There's lots of sevens everywhere and um, my main point was that there's uh, yeah So there's seven spirits spoken about in the bible So I imagine that when god said let there be light there is seven different expressions in that statement that give us seven dimensions Which is why the star in a jar is a bubble in water and there's lots of different Light coming out of it and that tells me that the mars and the sun are like electrons and protons in a macro atom Our atmosphere like they said the moon is in our atmosphere. So they're hinting at you there My poop was seven ounces today This one coming in from oh actually a quick housekeeping thing If you love science debates folks have to tell you if you'd love to be in one of these debates Want to let you know you can email us at moderndaydebate at gmail.com So that's just the name of the channel and podcast. No spaces. No hyphens is just modern day debate at gmail.com Let us know as we are looking for new people who are interested in debates on science topics in particular like creation evolution Whether or not the earth is flat whether or not the sun is at the center of the solar system Whether or not the titanic really sank Anything that has to do with you could say things that you might use the natural science to argue for one way or another This one coming in from edward j peters says howard explain the belt of venus on a flat earth model I'm not a flat earther, but as i've seen venus Before the sunrise in a blue sky When the sun's clearly behind it situated and we can see venus glowing very bright brighter as a star And we can also make the same observation at different times of the year when the sun's setting Just after the sunset we can see venus Bright while the sun's behind it showing that venus emits its own light like i say it's an energy Source it's giving out frequencies like the star in a jar not a flat earth We're looking up at something that could be a projection We're looking at something that is probably in a higher dimension We're seeing a reflection or like i say a shadow Which is why i asked tom what kind of evidence would he accept from a higher dimension Because we can only look at shadows or draw shadows of a three dimensional cube on paper We have to do a shadow in 2d So it's the same thing as what i was saying in my video and pretty much all the way through I hope it makes more sense through time and i hope that the video i'll make will be a little bit more Simple to understand. Thank you for your question. This one coming in from 60 seconds skeptic says george What's the best? Novel testable prediction that you can cite to back up your predictions or methods. Can you give a specific example? just one evidence for intelligent design would be that Somebody has to i've said this a million times everybody said it a million times It's simple if you see something That's been created it normally has a creator If somebody can show me the opposite if somebody like tom can present counter evidence Then we've got a real debate, but until there's counter evidence I'm literally showing all the evidence in the world But because tom's made his mind up over theories that can be debunked by biogeology and global eye experiments Then he has nothing left to stand on as he admitted without evolution There is no alternative logic explanation for creation of life. Thank you This one coming in from will steward 365 says tom will you ever buy a new chair that has been well designed? If you pay me a sufficient amount of money This phone from matt lee says are the two pies in the sky held up by seven flat turtles Like I said the turtle is an algorithm for how the World clock like I say a world clock because it's like an atmosphere Atmospheres like an atom. There's electrons and protons. Everything's being kept under Time and space and it's all Viewable As we see in experiments like star in a jar so so yeah, there's two pies in the sky that we can observe But they might not be physically where we see them. We're just making observations We haven't been measured or touched anything But I imagine that it's more close to what we see than what we're being told Thank you You got it with that want to say thanks so much for tuning in with us folks That's all we have for questions from the live chat want to say our guests are linked in the description So if you haven't checked out their links Now is a great time to open up a couple of tabs because you can put their links in those tabs I'm going to have a quick post credits. You could say a little scene on upcoming debates in just a moment It's going to be short and sweet so stick around for that and in the meantime want to say huge Thank you to our guest tom and howard. It's been a true pleasure Thank you james and thank you tom Yep. See you guys later Stick around folks. We'll be back in just a moment Ladies and gentlemen thrilled to have you here want to say thanks for your support and if you did not know this This is exciting stuff you guys we are excited for modern day debate to expand to grow We are determined to make sure this neutral platform continues to expand so that everybody has their fair shot To make their case on a level playing field as we do that One of the things that we're working on right now is as you can see at the bottom right of the screen If you happen to have tick tock If you go there and follow modern day debate and in particular You can find us. We just have the handle modern day debate no spaces no hyphens And i'm going to put our tick tock link in the description box if you just want to click that once we get to a thousand 1000 followers on tick tock as i just put that tick tock link in the Live chat and i'm going to pin it to the top of the chat We will once we hit 1000 followers be able to live stream there in addition to youtube And that's something that's really important. The reason is tick tock just can't be ignored Like they've done such a great job at growing so fast And if you have moral reasons, I know a lot of people don't like tick tock A lot of people like it a lot of people hate it some people are in the middle But i've got to say it's growing so fast that we as a platform modern day debate We'd be silly to not jump on because at this point they've really proven themselves It's not something that's just going to fade away. I don't think that's I don't think that's feasible anymore So if you happen to click on that link and follow us with your tick tock account That helps us as we once we get to a thousand followers on tick tock We'll be able to live stream our debates there Technically it'll only be the first hour of the debates because tick tock actually has a limit of an hour for a live stream But that's still nonetheless going to be really helpful because what we could do is we will say hey If you're watching on tick tock want to let you know Want to let you know We highly encourage you Check our debates out at youtube where you can see the rest of them So in other words, you'll see like the first hour and then the last they'll see you over at Modern day debate for youtube. Tom. Thanks for watching. I see you there in the old live chat says How are you going to stream to tick tock like do you have to have multi stream option for them? Yes, restream makes it so that you can do a custom streaming option And so you can basically Select it This is what i'm told you can select tick tock You've got to like google there's like websites I can send you if I can find the one that I used but basically you use a custom streaming Source so you do have to have the paid version of restream and that's something that we don't do it yet But once we are able to stream on tick tock modern day debate, we'll be doing that Fate zero says when will there be another howard debate? That's a good question. I'm not sure Let me see on what topics he's into. Oh, yeah, but in terms of topics for science debates I mentioned that we are looking for Interesting science topics so creation evolution like creation on trial like kind of like we had uh intelligent design On trial evolution on trial all sorts of topics like that as well as some of the more Out there and kind of frankly fun wild ones like are their ghosts are their demons Is bigfoot real is lockness monster real all sorts of juicy out there stuff the stuff that frankly you can't really find debated anywhere else we are really Definitely looking to move more into that sphere We're excited about that So want to let you know if you do have an interest in those topics. Yeah, iron horse says giants even though he won't debate that topic But That's another topic that would fit. Yeah as whether or not giants ever existed is that well, he said to be fair He said he won't debate it right now. He's just not ready to yet But maybe someday so We are excited about that as a possibility. So highly encourage you my dear friends That is something that if you have an interest and you're like, no, no Well, maybe I just want to be the skeptic and I want to argue against those things You don't have to be making the case for Giants or bigfoot or whatever it is. You might be like, hey I want to play the skeptic in that debate and by play I mean like actually be the skeptic So we don't really do devils advocate debates if you're new to modern day debate We did it once but people just didn't really it just didn't really take Didn't really get over with people. I think that the reason is people enjoy it more It's a little bit more authentic. It's just a little bit more fun of a debate It's a little more exciting when it's people's actual views on the line and so if Those are your views or if you're skeptical of those views The lost city of atlantis. That's something maybe we'll do. Let me know. We'd be excited to host those so This one coming in from razz putis says how does your chair compared to toms? This one is uh borrowed and I have to admit it's like actually pretty comfortable. I'm streaming from a different location So that's why things are a little bit I think that might be why things are a little bit like uh choppy today in terms of that encoder error Maybe it was the connection because the wi-fi isn't as strong here as my my usual place. Usually I'm at the office But thanks for your support. Jeremy Nolan says love modern day debate. Thanks james appreciate that jeremy dark indeed says you have to qualify these interlocutors Let's see. Thanks for that feedback and the truth is In order for us to decide like hey, you know, this person is good enough or not good enough I would say we want to keep the platform relatively open. So in other words like We want to be sparing with who we turn down The reason being we preach so much about like hey, we have got this neutral platform We give everybody a fair shot to make their case And so we want there to be a lot of freedom in terms of who we have It's more the topics that oftentimes lead me to say no if someone reaches out and they're like Hey, I want to debate whether or not sees her across the rubicon and i'm like, uh, man, i'm sorry I don't think modern day debate fans are you know like gonna go for that exactly so Appreciate the feedback though as always it's always welcome. And yeah, I hope you guys feel in the live chat like you have the Liberty to criticize modern day debate because for us it's like hey Like we want you to feel like you can say what you want and not feel like you have to walk on eggshells If you are trying to bully people in chat We're probably gonna one of the moderators is going to say hey like it's kind of weird Why are you doing that because we don't want it to be a negative experience for other people because of potential Targeting of individuals or something like that Although i've got to say it's got to be pretty like flagrant because even if you're like in the live chat You're like iron horse. You're so full of it, man Like we're not going to ban you for that and we're not even going to warn you for that Like that's just like if you think he's wrong you think he's wrong But like I said if it's like flagrant like if it's really abusive Then we're probably gonna be like hey like what are you doing? But if it's more teasing kind of prodding like it's not a big deal. We're not gonna like I said we don't care to Police people that's weird. We want you to feel like you've got the freedom This one from fate zero says love it that you guys have give a platform for every topic I appreciate that fate zero seriously that really means a lot as well as thanks antangoma It says mr. Modern a debate I admire how you have made this platform grow in its content always sweetens my day I'll use you as a role model at a tiny amount. Thanks for your support. Seriously. That really does mean a lot That's encouraging that means it puts a wind in my sails. I appreciate it and this one from I love you says world goes wild by lewis yelling never heard of it I don't know who it's by but if it is by that like that artist Let me know because we've got the name of the music in the description box And then mad hymen. Thanks for coming by Says fonsi jumping the shark. Yeah, that's it could seem like that. Although, I don't know We'll see I'm willing to gamble it razz putis says any veganism debates plan for the future Yes, we are in the process of booking one. We've almost got it ggs says let's see I mean we can't call out a grifter I think we're pretty like liberal about like letting people have a lot of freedom and you know do new things and Say things so I I don't know if grifter is enough to get you in trouble with the mods. Frankly. I'm not usually the one that's doing the moderation It's usually bob is the leader. He's right now Like he's probably in the middle of a school day or at least just getting out of his school day by the time This debate started so he didn't make it today, but Dark indeed says can you at least make sure they can form a syllogism before they come out? Yeah, you know, I