 Okay, welcome back to Oracle Open World. This is live in San Francisco. I'm John Furrier, the founder of SiliconANGEL. Stu Miniman from Wigibon. We're here at Dan Hushin, CTO at CSC, one of the main sponsors here at Oracle. Obviously, a big player. Welcome to theCUBE. Thanks very much, John. Great to have you on. Obviously, we were just talking prior to coming on. The history going back into the 90s into the client server world when it was growing like crazy with Sun Microsystems now. That's part of the Oracle Engineered Solutions, part of the Red Cross. I see now CSC, you guys have visibility into a lot of the trends, you're on the bleeding edge, cutting edge, and also kind of in the stable area with the big enterprises and service providers. Oracle always seems to introduce things right at the right time, right? You know, like it's very timing. Timing's everything. And some say they're late to the party, some say they're just in time. Cloud and big data, DevOps, security have really been a cutting edge topic. I want to jump in with you and ask you one, how is Oracle doing here at this show this year relative to being relevant in those areas? And what are the core issues that you think they're missing? Boy, what are they missing? That's a tough one. Let me start with where they're really good. So, you know, in my mind, Oracle's got some, you know, maintained some core strengths, right? You got to start with the developer because nothing matters if the developer doesn't care, right? So, you know, the Java 1 conference, being here, is still a massive draw. Even as Ruby and others start to peel away, right? You can't discount Java, still the leading language in the industry. And, you know, quite honestly, across our global customer base, Java is front and center. Most of the transformations we do from COBOL and the mainframe, right? Land in Java. So, it's there. You know, data's the next most important thing. In fact, Java comes to manipulate the data. So, you know, their big memory system, right? Some might say late. Some might say just in time. You know, the fact of the matter is that just like everything... I think it's good timing on the memory. I think it's good. I mean, it's good timing there. It's early still on memory. I agree. So, that's great stuff. You know, the Exadata, you know, putting larger storage, high load speeds, high endless speeds, right? It's the center of everything our enterprises are looking to do. That's becoming mainstream now, right? It started in marketing around customer. We're seeing it now moving to HR and other segments of the business, right? That's a pretty cool time when you're actually looking at people hiring people using big data. So, you know, that's coming front and center. You know, in terms of gaps, you know, it's hard to pick one out. You know, being an EMC, I might point out the fact that, you know, high availability storage is still a challenge for a lot of people, but, you know, they have some pretty good solutions there, too. It seems that everyone's chipping away at replication and disaster recovery. It's an easy, low-hanging fruit. Hard problems to solve, but yet it seems to be a safe thing to knock down with virtualization in this environment. Do you agree? I agree. You know, virtualization is kind of a saving grace. Virtualizing data is going to be more and more important. I would even, you know, go one step further and say, you know, fundamentally what we actually have to do is begin to figure out, you know, how do we actually begin to version control data, you know, past replication? So, you know, all these version-controlled file systems or version-controlled databases are coming out. The update in place is beginning to go away. It's really changing the physics of how databases are being designed. Some comments on Twitter just say OpenStack for Soler is coming in the future. Update. So, comment on the evolution of OpenStack. I mean, OpenStack's captured the hearts and minds of CIOs and staff and IT because of the, it feels like Amazon I could program my own and build my own private, public, private, hybrid, public cloud. So, comment about OpenStack and is Java that relevant in the DevOps world? I mean, Java, you mentioned, obviously is a mainstay, you know, if anyone who's been programming over the years has been a great language, but for the new school coming in, Java's not top of mind. I mean, they want, you know, they don't load Linux packs anymore. These young guys at the cloud are just fully integrated stacks. They want things turned key. So, you know, I think multi-bizers are going to be the way that the industry's going to go. Right? I can't help but say that it's, you still got livestock and you still got pets. You know, and you name your pets and you take care of your pets and you're willing to spend the extra money on their food. You know, then you got your livestock over here. You're cheap and deep, right? Big data has some nasty, nasty properties. It goes cold. And I don't want to pay for that license when the data's cold. So, you know, I'm still seeing a horses for courses kind of model out there in the hypervisor space. What Oracle's going to do? I don't know. But, you know, hopefully they're participating in the community. They're a pretty open company. You know, in terms of languages and DevOps, you know, I love Ruby. I'm a big Ruby fan, big Python fan. You know, I think that declarative languages make a lot of sense and, you know, I don't think that DevOps landscape has to move to Java in order to allow developers to be really proficient in across their DevOps landscape. So, you're saying that Python and Ruby have great examples of what the developers are using and they're used to programming on that. And we always talk about the enablement of what that means. So, what's under the hood relative to those? When I say under the hood, you know, what core scales are available to them? And Amazon's proven that, hey, we'll integrate underneath those languages, make things, you know, easy to automate and just automatically integrating in. How does that play out in an open stack in an Oracle environment? Now, see, open stack being kind of like an IT and Oracle being a huge install base in the enterprise. How does that mindset, does it work? Does it compute? Does it work? How do you talk about that when you talk to clients? You know, it's a little of everything. You know, some customers are really, you know, focused in and sitting here and saying, hey, you know, all that I'm looking for is to pull hands off keyboards. You know, DevOps is really a model that allows me to do continuous integration and continuous delivery. That's really good. You've got small mobility projects. DevOps is going to allow you to roll four times a day into production. That's awesome. You've got a whole other set of constituents in the landscape who are looking at aspect-oriented programming techniques that allow you to do just-in-time insertion of code into a runtime system. You can't quite get there from a DevOps standpoint. And so, you know, fundamentally, the Java camp comes forward with AOP styles and fundamentally enables that. So again, I think that we're going to see a fairly wide range of technologies. And I think it's going to end on where in the stack you're actually working. You're working on the front end. You're probably working in Ruby JSON. You're working on the back end. You're probably working in Java. No, that's just me. Yeah. So, Dan, when I think back to, you know, when John founded SiliconANGLE, things they talked about, cloud, mobile, social, big data, some of the themes were really seeing Oracle talking about here. Your presentation that you gave here at the conference was talking about bringing the outside in, you know, to the enterprise. Yeah. You know, I know you're a huge proponent of open business, things like blogging and social. So, can you explain what does this outside in for the enterprise mean? Yeah. So, you know, we published a research piece with an analyst group that we have internally called the Leading Edge Forum. And the research piece was called Outside In. The net was that, you know, fundamentally if you wanted to put into local terms, right, the internet is the new land. Right? And we're beginning to see that the data landscape inside the enterprise is, now is a soft GUI center protected by a firewall. It's a fortress model and everybody recognizes we've got to move. You know, the big data solutions by and large that are out there are work group level solutions. So, we've got to find ways to begin to enclave our data, enclave our applications. This is really changing the way that we're doing business. It just so happens, this is exactly what you do when you actually work as an IT group with an external service provider like Salesforce. You have to worry about enclave security. You've got to be able to protect the link. And inside of our enterprise, we don't do that. And that's becoming a massive problem for us. So, what we're looking at is these open cultures, the new insights that are coming from the outside world, much more intelligence coming from the outside into the enterprise than the insight might even, you know, insight enterprise might actually deliver on their own, right? And this is all about being customer centric, whether the customer is a true, you know, revenue-generating customer or an employee. It's giving them what they need to be effective in the marketplace and dealing with mass personalization versus when size fits all. Yeah, I love that internet's the new land. Security is such a hot topic. I mean, even though we always said security was always top of mind, but not necessarily the first thing that people would spend money on. Right. With everything that's going on with the NSA and Prism, you know, what's your take? What is the security landscape these days? Well, I think it's really heating up. You know, advanced persistent threats are everywhere. If you haven't been attacked, then you just don't know it yet. And so, what we're seeing is that, you know, we launched a couple of interesting services this year. So, we have a logical SEM, or a logical SOC, which is a security operation center in multiple countries globally. So, now we can deal with global enterprise, give them the right kind of perspective. Now what we're actually doing is bringing some global threat overlay data on top of those logical SOCs, almost like the point that John made about, you know, virtual data. We're actually providing you now a logical, you know, storage landscape or a security landscape across the portfolio. Customers are eating that up because security, the information behind security matters at scale, and that scale is going to help us, I think, address the larger needs of the customer base. So, Dan, I'm wondering if I could ask you a personal question. You know, you came from Sun, you went to EMC. I knew you when you started out in the grid and that kind of morphed into some of the cloud aspects. And now you went to CSC, who, you know, a lot of us were a little bit surprised when CSC was mentioned as, you know, in one of the major analyst firms said, one of the leaders and infrastructures of service, you know. So, can you lay out for us, you know, how are you driving? What's changing for CSC in this new cloud era? So, great. You know, awesome, Stu. For me, the critical aspect was staying closer to the customers, right? One of the key things for me that I really was missing working for a core technology vendor is that by and large, with their focus on channel strategy, we were moving two steps back from the customer. And as a result, I was losing my early warning system with respect to how these technologies were actually out there really solving key problems. So for me, the move to CSC was a step forward in the marketplace. And then what was really interesting is that we have exactly the same incubators that I was working on inside of EMC. And so now I'm actually beginning to understand the nuanced messages. So we have built the coarse-grained messages at both cloud that I did at Sun and then cloud that I did, you know, with the team at EMC or big data at both companies as well, now bringing that forward and understanding how the nuanced messages are applying in vertical markets. Yeah, and talk about, there's a personal thread here. The inflection point magnitude of what was going on in this world. You said, talk to the customer, obviously, you want to get in the front lines and see kind of the action up close. You know, Sun was a big player in that client server as when Oracle and SAP were born in those days. And that inflection point of client servers really probably one of the closest after, and then the internet, obviously you came to the web, was obviously another one. But what's it like now? Compare and contrast the inflection point, kind of the perfect storm of what's happening now in terms of change, enablement, acceleration. How could you talk about that for the folks out there? Share with them your opinion on kind of what's going on right now that's different or maybe unforeseen or just give an order of magnitude of the kinds of change that we're seeing. You know, the change is massive. I mean, web protocols won, right? REST 1, HTML5 is winning, you know, just like everything in the old Java world, right? You'd write in Java and optimize in native code, right? We're seeing write in HTML5, write in JSON, optimize in custom apps. We're seeing, I think, finally for the right time and first time a bifurcation of the view controller, right? Which drives mobile clients, right? From the model controller, which is the back off of the presentment of information. And before those had kind of been woven together into fat apps and we're now really seeing that the technology has matured to the point where we're seeing those pulled apart. So it is really real that we're seeing, you know, Ruby and JSON on the front end with a set of RESTful APIs into back-end services. This means CIOs have to begin to worry about putting APIs on all of their core internal systems to really drive to the new experience that the customers are requiring, which are naturally mashing up the back office data for forward presentment. I mean, if you add another dimension, David and I always talk about, like, with Flash with David Floyer. You got Flash, you got Compute, you have basically almost limitless research on the Compute side now. I mean, I think the grid vision back in the early of the decade was very similar to what's happening right now in terms of the kinds of distributed scale. So even under the hood, there's still massive infrastructure improvements on top of virtualization. Yeah, I mean, you know, software rules, John. You know, at the end of the day, software rules. You know, we are seeing some of the high availability architectures begin to give away with more and more of their workloads to the commodity scale infrastructure, right? We're seeing web scale kind of begin to take over because the elasticity and the availability that it has the ability to afford, right? It also gives you the maximum degree of cost capability in terms of managing your cost versus quality, especially if you can do that with DevOps and software. Yeah, Dan, speaking of software, CSE made an acquisition of InfoChimp. So I'm wondering if you can lay out for us, you know, where that fits into the ecosystem. Pivotal is right down the block. They've been, you know, making some big announcements with regard to platform as a service. Can you walk us through that? Yeah, so, you know, per my statement that I'm really into DevOps and service automation. What I really liked about InfoChimp was two things. So one was that they're doing real-time fast data, so big fast data, and that they had this thing called Cloud Streams, and Cloud Streams gave us the ability to fundamentally deal with stream processing through Storm and Kafka as a DevOps-procured asset, right? And then we had Cloud Query and Cloud Search, and all of them were linked together. And, you know, my vision has been, hey, I need to do forensic analytics on the back. I need to do complex event processing on the front. They do that all with a push-button provisioning model on to Amazon. And so, for me, what InfoChimp's was was a harvesting of open source with a new set of DevOps styles to help me orchestrate an information pipeline through a landscape. And that was an acu-hire, too, right? You guys pretty much got the team with that whole deal. We did. The team is absolutely remarkable down there. I mean, Drew, and Flip, and Jim and the whole team are just an awesome joke. Well, we're big fans of those guys. We've been tracking those guys. Obviously, we have our own follow-ups of work that they've done. They've been very impressive on what they've done from day one. You know, even just mining all the social data, as well as dealing with a lot of the challenges around discovery. We'll set you up on an account on InfoChimp's if you'd like, John. Yeah, we'd love it. We'd love it. Okay, final question. You're, and then, Stu, you have a final question I'll let you go, but if not, we'll end it there. But final question is, what's your take of Oracle going forward? Can they drive the bus to the place they need to be? And can they continue to innovate? Are they going to hold the line? Can they keep their customers? Can they vertically integrate the red stack? Can they bring that into the environments? And what are they going to give up? I mean, how do you see the playbook for Oracle evolve in it? I wish I had the magic answer to that. Your opinion's good. I think that they're fundamentally innovating in the right areas, right? They're building on software instead of hardware. I think that that's a massive plus. They still control the developer landscape. I think that's going to allow them to move cleanly into mobility and the new information sources. I think the future's pretty bright for those guys. They have some of the right properties. I think they need some more moves to get much closer to the customer and solve some of the customer problems. Hopefully that's what CSC is going to do for them. All right, so Dan, I do have a final question for you. If you talk to the CIOs out there in the community, I think one of the challenges out there, some of them say, I don't necessarily have the developers. I don't have the data scientists. And I'm just doing things the way that I've been doing things for a long time. What's your advice to them? How do they move forward? Oh, God. You know, I wish there was a great answer. I think the number one thing that I have is I'm telling my team to get involved in open source. Because if there's one way to learn, it's through watching the conversations that are occurring in open source communities. It's really easy to say that I have the training that I established inside my culture, but if you really want to change your culture, you've got to let your people go outside in. You've got to let them go and execute in the open community and to bring those talent skills, the people that they know, and both the pitfalls, as well as the successes back into the company to help accelerate. Dan, thanks for coming inside the queue in the front lines with customers here at CSE. CTO, a lot of great background. Obviously, very relevant. You guys are doing some great work. And customers are moving fast. So thanks for coming into the queue and sharing your opinion. We'll be right back with our next guest after this short break. This is theCUBE live in San Francisco, Oracle Open World 2013, our fourth consecutive year since theCUBE was born. We're excited to be here. Stay with us. We'll be right back with our next guest on day one of three days of live coverage, wall to wall at Oracle Open. We'll be right back.